I have an oval picture for which I would like to make a frame. I can
draw the oval
As I see it there would be two parts in cutting the oval.
----- The oval cut that would eventually frame the picture.
----- The rabbet cut to hold the picture.
I have the following tools available to me:
1. Table saw (I have no idea how this could be used)
2. Standard size non plunge router with router table.
3. Dremmel with spiral cut bit and other router bits.
4. Jig saw.
5. Drill press with brad point and Forstner bits.
Can I get suggestions making the cutout for the picture.
Finishing the outside edges is obvious.
In my opinion if you are going to do it freehand, then skip the
template step and just free hand the blank. My whole reason for a
template is to use a trammel and\or other precise methods to form the
shape and it is easier and cleaner to hog it out from MDF. Then you
can free hand the blank down to very close to the actual finish shape
and use the template to guide a trim pass.
On Mar 29, 5:52=A0pm, Larry <[email protected]> wrote:
> Keith Nuttle <[email protected]> wrote innews:hoqmq2$moo$1@spera=
nza.aioe.org:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I have an oval picture for which I would like to make a
> > frame. I can draw the oval
>
> > As I see it there would be two parts in cutting the oval.
> > ----- The oval cut that would eventually frame the picture.
> > ----- The rabbet cut to hold the picture.
>
> > I have the following tools available to me:
>
> > 1. Table saw (I have no idea how this could be used)
> > 2. Standard size non plunge router with router table.
> > 3. Dremmel with spiral cut bit and other router bits.
> > 4. Jig saw.
> > 5. Drill press with brad point and Forstner bits.
>
> > Can I get suggestions making the cutout for the picture.
>
> > Finishing the outside edges is obvious.
>
> I'd get a piece of MDF to use for a template. After
> deciphering Morris' instructions on how to draw an oval, cut
> it out close with your jigsaw. Smooth it up with a drum sander
> in your drill press. Cut the real material with the jigsaw as
> close as you can to the correct shape. Using double-stick
> tape, adhere the template to the real material. Then use a
> flush trim router bit to copy the shape of your template. If
> you can get this far the rabbet is the easy part.
>
> Larry- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
> ----------------------------------------
> Think I'd want to use scarf joints, at least 8:1, rather than half
> laps.
>
> Lew
I think of lap and scarf as the same thing. I was thinking a lap\scarf
similar to the first on on this page http://www.sawdustmaking.com/woodjoints/scarf.htm
but bevel cut the ends to accomodate the oval. say if you want a 2"
wide finish you use 4" wide sticks roughed to the shape.
Which type of scarf would you suggest?
In 1970 I bought with a loan app - a $600 calculator from a business supply
company. It was a 12 digit Nixie tube four-banger with memory. It saved
the beloved and I when doing grades. A few more years later I had a machine
language computer.
I did logs on that 4 banger - trig sin and cos and tan. There were some
very creative guys learning tricks and approximations and small formulas
that one could get good numbers.
The company was Cannon. I scrapped out the machine in about 1995 or so.
It had a bad supply - HV likely leaky and the controller wasn't up to speed.
Several years after the first TI and HP came on the scene - and we both
died. $150 for a full blown ? - I think we still owned about that much
on the Nixie box. TI's SR-50 ... Been a TI and HP guy since.
Went to HP in 85 and back to TI in 2008.
I had a small circular slide rule, Dad had a tubular slide rule.
We both still have slide rules in our desks and use them.
Faster than getting out the banger and entering the number.
Long calc's or complex ones bring out the box - one or the other.
Martin
Keith Nuttle wrote:
> On 3/30/2010 8:37 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 3/30/2010 6:53 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>
>>> My favorite slide rule was the circular slide rule. For some spectra
>>> conversion in IR or UV you could make the calculation on the circular
>>> slide rule faster that any calculator today.
>>
>> Do you remember your first electronic calculator? I got a TI-30 (IIRC)
>> when I went back to school briefly after the service. We weren't even
>> allowed to bring them to class, much less take a test with it.
>>
> TI-30? That is only about 20 years old. The electronic calculator I am
> talking about was bought in 1970. It had a big nixy(sp?) display and
> was the size of a typewriter. It was significantly better that the old
> mechanical one. It did X / + - and had 12 rows of 10 keys in each row.
> Took several seconds to do simply + and - calculations and longer to do
> X and /.
On Mar 29, 10:08=A0am, Keith Nuttle <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have an oval picture for which I would like to make a frame. I can
>
> Can I get suggestions making the cutout for the picture.
>
> Finishing the outside edges is obvious.
You would probably go with an elipse cutting jig\tramel something like
this (there are lots of them out there)
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/A_Jig_for_Drawing_or_Cutting_Ellipses=
.html
The basic steps one would typically follow is...
- Cut a template from MDF or other easy to cut material using the jig
- Use the template to draw the shape on your blank stock
- Cut the blank stock close to finish size with band\jig\scroll\ect.
saw
- Use the template to finish rout the real part using a bearing
\pattern bit.
For an oval you might want to be creative on the glue up of some stock
using sticks to get a rough shape, maybe using half lap joints.
"SonomaProducts.com" wrote:
For an oval you might want to be creative on the glue up of some stock
using sticks to get a rough shape, maybe using half lap joints.
----------------------------------------
Think I'd want to use scarf joints, at least 8:1, rather than half
laps.
And as Morris stated, this job begs for a spindle sander.
Have fun.
Lew
"SonomaProducts.com" wrote:
> I think of lap and scarf as the same thing. I was thinking a
> lap\scarf
> similar to the first on on this page
> http://www.sawdustmaking.com/woodjoints/scarf.htm
> but bevel cut the ends to accomodate the oval. say if you want a 2"
> wide finish you use 4" wide sticks roughed to the shape.
>
> Which type of scarf would you suggest?
-----------------------------------------
Fig 211 in your reference is what I know as a half lap joint.
I know a scarf joint is some form of a tapered joint such as fig 213.
Not sure whether I'd want to have the scarf joint horizontal (fig 213)
or vertical as would typically found be found on a boat cap rail.
Probably vertical since it would simplify forming the curved sections
same as a boat cap rail.
Lew
Swingman wrote:
> On 3/29/2010 12:08 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>
>> I have an oval picture for which I would like to make a frame. I can
>> draw the oval
>
>
> I did a cursory search but can't find it, but David J. Marks had a
> helluva good episode on making an oval mirror(IRRC) frame ... would
> really be worthwhile tracking down the show.
>
If I recall many years ago either ShopNotes or Woodsmith magazine had
plans for a router jig to make elliptical frames. I believe it used
1/4" threaded rod to allow adjustment to various sizes. The router
mounted directly to the jig.
I tried a Google search and came up blank. Anyone have their index(s)
(I'm pretty sure it was ShopNotes).
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
LdB <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> I'm such a dumb redneck. I probably would have just traced the
> picture. Then told the wife I need a bandsaw and a spindle sander. :)
>
> LdB
>
>
You also need a welder and file set to make the cut with a bandsaw and not
cut through the frame. Oh, and something to cut the bandsaw blade again
after it's done.
Puckdropper
--
Never teach your apprentice everything you know.
"Keith Nuttle" wrote:
> Of course you go to school to learn what you do not know, and to
> learn to learn.
---------------------------------------------
Brings to mind Oberlin College, a liberal arts school located in
Oberlin, Oh, about 40 miles SW of Cleveland.
Am convinced the curriculum is designed to teach you how to survive
grad school an obtain a PhD.
Must be working since more than a few Chairman of the Board, CEO
types, have graduated from Oberlin.
Lew
"Swingman" wrote:
> Same mathematical functions as a computer, but these days the
> computer is _much_ faster.
----------------------------------------
Reminds me of my state PE exams.
Knew they gave a lot of partial credit and you needed an 80 to pass.
During a 2 day exam, never completely solved a math question.
Posted a note at the top of every answer sheet that went something
like this:
* = Plug in values and turn crank.
Would set up the equations to solve a problem, then it was "*" time.
I passed the exams.
After all, I wasn't there to take a slide rule exam, but rather
engineering exams.
One guy, an older gentleman, pulled out his drafting board, some
triangles, a scale and provided graphical solutions.
Have no idea if he passed the exams.
Back then, computers were big clunkers that were kept in huge
air-conditioned rooms.
Lew
"Keith Nuttle" wrote:
> When I was in High School in the late 50's I paid 25 dollars for a
> cheap slide rule. There was no way I could have afforded the
> expensive ones.
------------------------------------------
My Post, log-log-desi-trig complete with carrying case was less than
$15 when I got it while still in high school.
Had several inverse as well as folded scales which allowed you to fly
thru the calculations.
Never did figure out how to use the "pencil & eraser" functioin.<G>
Still have that little beauty someplace.
Lew
"Swingman" wrote:
> Got one of my Dad's cast off K&E's in HS, but don't remember the
> model. You're right, I think I paid $20+ for the one I used in
> college, but damn that was expensive!
---------------------------------------
I got mine about the same time as I got a hell of a big raise.
Minimum wage went from $0.50/hour to $0.75/hour.
Damn, I was in the high cotton.
Lew
"Swingman" wrote:
> Do you remember your first electronic calculator? I got a TI-30
> (IIRC) when I went back to school briefly after the service. We
> weren't even allowed to bring them to class, much less take a test
> with it.
--------------------------------------------
1970-71 vintage.
Mine was a desk top, plug in, Commodore with 4 functions (Add,
subtract, multiply, divide)
Special sale for $119 + tax.
Such a deal................
A few weeks later it was $99.
Lew
"Nonny" wrote:
The electronic
> calculator I am talking about was bought in 1970. It had a big
> nixy(sp?) display and was the size of a typewriter. It was
> significantly better that the old mechanical one. It did X / + -
> and had 12 rows of 10 keys in each row. Took several seconds to do
> simply + and - calculations and longer to do X and /.
>
> Monroe 990 with 16 digit display. The Frieden was better, with its
> initial 3-level version of RPN, but who woulda' thunk it?
---------------------------------------------
My first job out of school was in the engineering dept which included
the estimating group.
Everybody in the estimating group had a comptometer on his desk.
If they had been Orientals, maybe they would have been an abacus
instead.
Lew
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 3/30/2010 4:07 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>
>> As for technology in the class room while there are negatives,
>> there are
>> all so some strong positives. If I have a computer in physical
>> chemistry
>> I may have a better understanding of how the various equation
>> performed.
>
> I had a computer ... "me", with a slide rule. :)
They're becoming forgotten. Slide rules put man on the moon.
Back in HS and college, the classes like Physics and Chem had a
half bushel basket by the door with school slide rules for the
kids without their own.
--
Nonny
Suppose you were an idiot.
And suppose you were a member
of Congress.... But then I repeat myself.'
-Mark Twain
.
On 3/30/2010 4:07 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> As for technology in the class room while there are negatives, there are
> all so some strong positives. If I have a computer in physical chemistry
> I may have a better understanding of how the various equation performed.
I had a computer ... "me", with a slide rule. :)
> Of course you go to school to learn what you do not know, and to learn
> to learn.
Well said ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 3/30/2010 7:15 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Keith Nuttle" wrote:
>
>> When I was in High School in the late 50's I paid 25 dollars for a
>> cheap slide rule. There was no way I could have afforded the
>> expensive ones.
> ------------------------------------------
> My Post, log-log-desi-trig complete with carrying case was less than
> $15 when I got it while still in high school.
>
> Had several inverse as well as folded scales which allowed you to fly
> thru the calculations.
>
> Never did figure out how to use the "pencil& eraser" functioin.<G>
>
> Still have that little beauty someplace.
Got one of my Dad's cast off K&E's in HS, but don't remember the model.
You're right, I think I paid $20+ for the one I used in college, but
damn that was expensive!
... that's back when I routinely found it necessary to cash bank
"counter drafts" (remember those?) for 50 cents at the student center
two or three times a week.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Swingman" wrote:
>
>> Same mathematical functions as a computer, but these days the
>> computer is _much_ faster.
> ----------------------------------------
> Reminds me of my state PE exams.
>
> Knew they gave a lot of partial credit and you needed an 80 to
> pass.
>
> During a 2 day exam, never completely solved a math question.
>
> Posted a note at the top of every answer sheet that went
> something like this:
>
> * = Plug in values and turn crank.
>
> Would set up the equations to solve a problem, then it was "*"
> time.
>
> I passed the exams.
>
> After all, I wasn't there to take a slide rule exam, but rather
> engineering exams.
>
> One guy, an older gentleman, pulled out his drafting board, some
> triangles, a scale and provided graphical solutions.
>
> Have no idea if he passed the exams.
>
> Back then, computers were big clunkers that were kept in huge
> air-conditioned rooms.
Wow, that sounds a lot like my experience with the old Curta
calculator. IT got me through the exams just fine.
--
Nonny
Suppose you were an idiot.
And suppose you were a member
of Congress.... But then I repeat myself.'
-Mark Twain
.
On 3/30/2010 9:22 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> TI-30? That is only about 20 years old.
Early to mid 70's .. but I may be wrong about the model #. I do recall
that is was designated as a "student calculator".
Don't hold me to the exact particulars.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Keith Nuttle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 3/30/2010 8:37 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 3/30/2010 6:53 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>
>>> My favorite slide rule was the circular slide rule. For some
>>> spectra
>>> conversion in IR or UV you could make the calculation on the
>>> circular
>>> slide rule faster that any calculator today.
>>
>> Do you remember your first electronic calculator? I got a TI-30
>> (IIRC)
>> when I went back to school briefly after the service. We
>> weren't even
>> allowed to bring them to class, much less take a test with it.
>>
> TI-30? That is only about 20 years old. The electronic
> calculator I am talking about was bought in 1970. It had a big
> nixy(sp?) display and was the size of a typewriter. It was
> significantly better that the old mechanical one. It did X /
> + - and had 12 rows of 10 keys in each row. Took several seconds
> to do simply + and - calculations and longer to do X and /.
Monroe 990 with 16 digit display. The Frieden was better, with
its initial 3-level version of RPN, but who woulda' thunk it?
--
Nonny
Suppose you were an idiot.
And suppose you were a member
of Congress.... But then I repeat myself.'
-Mark Twain
.
On 3/29/2010 1:20 PM, Morris Dovey wrote:
> On 3/29/2010 12:08 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> I have an oval picture for which I would like to make a frame. I can
>> draw the oval
>>
>> As I see it there would be two parts in cutting the oval.
>> ----- The oval cut that would eventually frame the picture.
>> ----- The rabbet cut to hold the picture.
>>
>> I have the following tools available to me:
>>
>> 1. Table saw (I have no idea how this could be used)
>> 2. Standard size non plunge router with router table.
>> 3. Dremmel with spiral cut bit and other router bits.
>> 4. Jig saw.
>> 5. Drill press with brad point and Forstner bits.
>>
>> Can I get suggestions making the cutout for the picture.
>
> More Information:
>
> Major axis length (longest "diameter")
> Minor axis length (shortest "diameter")
> Stock thickness.
>
> One more tool:
>
> Analytic Geometry :)
>
> Let 2a = major axis
> let 2b = minor axis
>
> There will be two foci (on the major axis)
>
> The distance from the center to either focus is sqrt(a^2 - b^2)
>
> The equation, if you want to plot an ellipse is
>
> x^2/a^2 + y^2/b^2 = 1
>
> Or, if you want to construct an ellipse:
>
> push a pin into each of the foci
> tie a string to each pin so that if you pull the string taut with a
> pencil point, the pencil point will just touch a point at a distance b
> from the center on the perpendicular bisector of a line between the two
> foci.
>
> It sounds a lot more complicated than it really is :)
>
> Once you've drawn it, you can freehand rout the opening - and can then
> use a rabbet bit to cut for the glass and photo.
>
> FWIW - this project begs for a spindle sander. ;-)
>
I'm such a dumb redneck. I probably would have just traced the
picture. Then told the wife I need a bandsaw and a spindle sander. :)
LdB
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Keith Nuttle" wrote:
>
>> When I was in High School in the late 50's I paid 25 dollars
>> for a cheap slide rule. There was no way I could have afforded
>> the expensive ones.
> ------------------------------------------
> My Post, log-log-desi-trig complete with carrying case was less
> than $15 when I got it while still in high school.
>
> Had several inverse as well as folded scales which allowed you
> to fly thru the calculations.
>
> Never did figure out how to use the "pencil & eraser"
> functioin.<G>
>
> Still have that little beauty someplace.
>
> Lew
I once had a student breathlessly tell me how his Dad used a
sliderule for so many math calculations, including addition and
subtraction. I just smiled and walked away.
--
Nonny
Suppose you were an idiot.
And suppose you were a member
of Congress.... But then I repeat myself.'
-Mark Twain
.
On 3/30/2010 8:16 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Swingman" wrote:
>
>> Got one of my Dad's cast off K&E's in HS, but don't remember the
>> model. You're right, I think I paid $20+ for the one I used in
>> college, but damn that was expensive!
> ---------------------------------------
> I got mine about the same time as I got a hell of a big raise.
>
> Minimum wage went from $0.50/hour to $0.75/hour.
>
> Damn, I was in the high cotton.
$4/day ... worked 7 days a week and didn't know what to do with all that
money!
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 3/30/2010 6:53 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>
>> My favorite slide rule was the circular slide rule. For some
>> spectra
>> conversion in IR or UV you could make the calculation on the
>> circular
>> slide rule faster that any calculator today.
>
> Do you remember your first electronic calculator? I got a TI-30
> (IIRC) when I went back to school briefly after the service. We
> weren't even allowed to bring them to class, much less take a
> test with it.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 10/22/08
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
HP gave me a 35 for my work on the 80. That was a long time
ago.
--
Nonny
Suppose you were an idiot.
And suppose you were a member
of Congress.... But then I repeat myself.'
-Mark Twain
.
Keith Nuttle <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I have an oval picture for which I would like to make a
> frame. I can draw the oval
>
> As I see it there would be two parts in cutting the oval.
> ----- The oval cut that would eventually frame the picture.
> ----- The rabbet cut to hold the picture.
>
> I have the following tools available to me:
>
> 1. Table saw (I have no idea how this could be used)
> 2. Standard size non plunge router with router table.
> 3. Dremmel with spiral cut bit and other router bits.
> 4. Jig saw.
> 5. Drill press with brad point and Forstner bits.
>
> Can I get suggestions making the cutout for the picture.
>
> Finishing the outside edges is obvious.
I'd get a piece of MDF to use for a template. After
deciphering Morris' instructions on how to draw an oval, cut
it out close with your jigsaw. Smooth it up with a drum sander
in your drill press. Cut the real material with the jigsaw as
close as you can to the correct shape. Using double-stick
tape, adhere the template to the real material. Then use a
flush trim router bit to copy the shape of your template. If
you can get this far the rabbet is the easy part.
Larry
On 3/29/2010 12:08 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> I have an oval picture for which I would like to make a frame. I can
> draw the oval
I did a cursory search but can't find it, but David J. Marks had a
helluva good episode on making an oval mirror(IRRC) frame ... would
really be worthwhile tracking down the show.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Keith Nuttle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I have an oval picture for which I would like to make a frame. I can draw
>the oval
>
> As I see it there would be two parts in cutting the oval.
> ----- The oval cut that would eventually frame the picture.
> ----- The rabbet cut to hold the picture.
>
> I have the following tools available to me:
>
> 1. Table saw (I have no idea how this could be used)
> 2. Standard size non plunge router with router table.
> 3. Dremmel with spiral cut bit and other router bits.
> 4. Jig saw.
> 5. Drill press with brad point and Forstner bits.
>
> Can I get suggestions making the cutout for the picture.
>
> Finishing the outside edges is obvious.
If you only need one and can draw it, draw it up and cut it out with a
jigsaw. Leave a bit of excess. Put a sanding drum in your drill press and
sand to the line. Use a rabbet bit for the recess.
On 3/29/2010 12:08 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> I have an oval picture for which I would like to make a frame. I can
> draw the oval
>
> As I see it there would be two parts in cutting the oval.
> ----- The oval cut that would eventually frame the picture.
> ----- The rabbet cut to hold the picture.
>
> I have the following tools available to me:
>
> 1. Table saw (I have no idea how this could be used)
> 2. Standard size non plunge router with router table.
> 3. Dremmel with spiral cut bit and other router bits.
> 4. Jig saw.
> 5. Drill press with brad point and Forstner bits.
>
> Can I get suggestions making the cutout for the picture.
More Information:
Major axis length (longest "diameter")
Minor axis length (shortest "diameter")
Stock thickness.
One more tool:
Analytic Geometry :)
Let 2a = major axis
let 2b = minor axis
There will be two foci (on the major axis)
The distance from the center to either focus is sqrt(a^2 - b^2)
The equation, if you want to plot an ellipse is
x^2/a^2 + y^2/b^2 = 1
Or, if you want to construct an ellipse:
push a pin into each of the foci
tie a string to each pin so that if you pull the string taut with a
pencil point, the pencil point will just touch a point at a distance b
from the center on the perpendicular bisector of a line between the two
foci.
It sounds a lot more complicated than it really is :)
Once you've drawn it, you can freehand rout the opening - and can then
use a rabbet bit to cut for the glass and photo.
FWIW - this project begs for a spindle sander. ;-)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
In article <4baece59-2646-445b-94e7-28e8ab75bcf5@u22g2000yqf.googlegroups.com>,
SonomaProducts.com <[email protected]> wrote:
>http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/A_Jig_for_Drawing_or_Cutting_Ellipses.html
Excellent reference. I don't think I'd try cutting an oval by hand;
there's no way I could hold the router that accurately.
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
On 3/30/2010 12:55 PM, LdB wrote:
> I'm such a dumb redneck. I probably would have just traced the picture.
> Then told the wife I need a bandsaw and a spindle sander. :)
Be a _smart_ redneck - tell 'er you need a CNC router and /maybe/ a
bandsaw and a spindle sander after that. :-D
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
On 3/30/2010 3:40 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> Morris Dovey wrote:
>
>> One more tool:
>>
>> Analytic Geometry :)
>
> I detested that class.
>
> Prof was a Yugoslav, didn't have a great command of English. He had been a
> partisan and his throat had been cut ear to ear; no idea if that affected
> his speech but he was next to impossible to understand. It was the only
> class I *ever* had to repeat.
Bummer. I can sympathize because my freshman physics class was a Korean
who had a similar handicap, and who made up for it by screaming his
lectures. I dropped the course after a week and restarted the following
quarter with a different prof, along with all the folks who'd stuck it
out and failed the course.
The guy who taught my Calculus and Analytic Geometry class, by contrast,
was clear, soft-spoken, and wrote everything on the blackboard as he
lectured. He wrote with his right hand and erased with his left as he
went, with pauses as he walked back to the left side of the board. It
would have been humorous if I hadn't been in a permanent panic to get
things into my notes before they disappeared. :)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
On 3/30/2010 4:49 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 3/30/2010 3:13 PM, Morris Dovey wrote:
>
>> The guy who taught my Calculus and Analytic Geometry class, by contrast,
>> was clear, soft-spoken, and wrote everything on the blackboard as he
>> lectured. He wrote with his right hand and erased with his left as he
>> went, with pauses as he walked back to the left side of the board. It
>> would have been humorous if I hadn't been in a permanent panic to get
>> things into my notes before they disappeared. :)
>
> Just having the youngest out of college, I know that taking notes in
> class today can be as simple as hitting a button and letting the
> recording device/laptop tape the lecture.
>
> I can't help but think that letting technology do it for you probably
> skips a vital link in the synapses that the process of writing it down
> completes. I was thinking about that the other day when responding to
> the thread on width, length, etc.
>
> Botany prof drew pictures of plant cell structures on a blackboard and
> students were required to handcopy them to a notebook that was part of
> the course grade ....and today, 45 years later, those pictures I copied
> from that blackboard are still vivid in my mind.
>
> Also had a Korean grad student that taught an advanced math course full
> of words like 'vector-value', 'differential', etc. that he couldn't
> pronounce in an understandable manner to anyone ... a brilliant guy, but
> he cost most of us a grade point or two.
>
One of the best teachers I ever had was my analytical geometry teacher
in high school. I had many more in college but he was the best.
As for technology in the class room while there are negatives, there are
all so some strong positives. If I have a computer in physical
chemistry I may have a better understanding of how the various equation
performed.
Of course you go to school to learn what you do not know, and to learn
to learn.
On 3/30/2010 4:13 PM, Morris Dovey wrote:
> On 3/30/2010 3:40 PM, dadiOH wrote:
>> Morris Dovey wrote:
>>
>>> One more tool:
>>>
>>> Analytic Geometry :)
>>
>> I detested that class.
>>
>> Prof was a Yugoslav, didn't have a great command of English. He had
>> been a
>> partisan and his throat had been cut ear to ear; no idea if that affected
>> his speech but he was next to impossible to understand. It was the only
>> class I *ever* had to repeat.
>
> Bummer. I can sympathize because my freshman physics class was a Korean
> who had a similar handicap, and who made up for it by screaming his
> lectures. I dropped the course after a week and restarted the following
> quarter with a different prof, along with all the folks who'd stuck it
> out and failed the course.
>
> The guy who taught my Calculus and Analytic Geometry class, by contrast,
> was clear, soft-spoken, and wrote everything on the blackboard as he
> lectured. He wrote with his right hand and erased with his left as he
> went, with pauses as he walked back to the left side of the board. It
> would have been humorous if I hadn't been in a permanent panic to get
> things into my notes before they disappeared. :)
I learned that I do best to just get a good text and work through it.
There used to be a schaum's outline on analytic geometry--been out of
print for 20 years though.
On 3/30/2010 6:43 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Swingman" wrote:
>
>> Same mathematical functions as a computer, but these days the
>> computer is _much_ faster.
> ----------------------------------------
> Reminds me of my state PE exams.
>
> Knew they gave a lot of partial credit and you needed an 80 to pass.
>
> During a 2 day exam, never completely solved a math question.
>
> Posted a note at the top of every answer sheet that went something
> like this:
>
> * = Plug in values and turn crank.
>
> Would set up the equations to solve a problem, then it was "*" time.
>
> I passed the exams.
>
> After all, I wasn't there to take a slide rule exam, but rather
> engineering exams.
>
> One guy, an older gentleman, pulled out his drafting board, some
> triangles, a scale and provided graphical solutions.
>
> Have no idea if he passed the exams.
>
> Back then, computers were big clunkers that were kept in huge
> air-conditioned rooms.
And it was inconcievable to those who ran them that micros were ever
going to achieve that kind of performance. Now we bitch about how slow
our machine is when it is several times faster than an '80s supercomputer.
On 3/30/2010 6:01 PM, Nonny wrote:
>
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 3/30/2010 4:07 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>
>>> As for technology in the class room while there are negatives, there are
>>> all so some strong positives. If I have a computer in physical chemistry
>>> I may have a better understanding of how the various equation performed.
>>
>> I had a computer ... "me", with a slide rule. :)
>
> They're becoming forgotten. Slide rules put man on the moon. Back in HS
> and college, the classes like Physics and Chem had a half bushel basket
> by the door with school slide rules for the kids without their own.
When I was in High School in the late 50's I paid 25 dollars for a cheap
slide rule. There was no way I could have afforded the expensive ones.
Today when you go to flea markets or antique stores you can pick up the
most expensive for 5 or 10 dollars/ with case.
My favorite slide rule was the circular slide rule. For some spectra
conversion in IR or UV you could make the calculation on the circular
slide rule faster that any calculator today.
On 3/30/2010 8:37 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 3/30/2010 6:53 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>
>> My favorite slide rule was the circular slide rule. For some spectra
>> conversion in IR or UV you could make the calculation on the circular
>> slide rule faster that any calculator today.
>
> Do you remember your first electronic calculator? I got a TI-30 (IIRC)
> when I went back to school briefly after the service. We weren't even
> allowed to bring them to class, much less take a test with it.
>
TI-30? That is only about 20 years old. The electronic calculator I am
talking about was bought in 1970. It had a big nixy(sp?) display and
was the size of a typewriter. It was significantly better that the old
mechanical one. It did X / + - and had 12 rows of 10 keys in each row.
Took several seconds to do simply + and - calculations and longer to
do X and /.
On 3/30/2010 10:33 PM, Nonny wrote:
>
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 3/30/2010 6:53 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>
>>> My favorite slide rule was the circular slide rule. For some spectra
>>> conversion in IR or UV you could make the calculation on the circular
>>> slide rule faster that any calculator today.
>>
>> Do you remember your first electronic calculator? I got a TI-30 (IIRC)
>> when I went back to school briefly after the service. We weren't even
>> allowed to bring them to class, much less take a test with it.
>>
>> --
>> www.e-woodshop.net
>> Last update: 10/22/08
>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
> HP gave me a 35 for my work on the 80. That was a long time ago.
My first was an HP45--marvelous when it worked. Four hundred bucks and
it wasn't reliable. Seems downright primitive today.
>
On 3/30/2010 7:37 PM, Swingman wrote:
> Do you remember your first electronic calculator? I got a TI-30 (IIRC)
> when I went back to school briefly after the service. We weren't even
> allowed to bring them to class, much less take a test with it.
I held off buying a pocket calculator until I could get one that was
both programmable and affordable.
I ended up buying an HP-25. I still have it stored away somewhere, and
the last time I powered it up, it still ran.
I used that until 1980 when I got a Radio Shack TRS-80 Pocket Computer
that could run (sorta) BASIC programs, read/write to a cassette drive,
and print on a cash register size tape. It's here on my desk needing new
batteries (and a new ribbon for the printer).
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
On 3/31/2010 9:48 PM, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
> In 1970 I bought with a loan app - a $600 calculator from a business supply
> company. It was a 12 digit Nixie tube four-banger with memory. It saved
> the beloved and I when doing grades. A few more years later I had a machine
> language computer.
>
> I did logs on that 4 banger - trig sin and cos and tan. There were some
> very creative guys learning tricks and approximations and small formulas
> that one could get good numbers.
>
> The company was Cannon. I scrapped out the machine in about 1995 or so.
> It had a bad supply - HV likely leaky and the controller wasn't up to
> speed.
>
> Several years after the first TI and HP came on the scene - and we both
> died. $150 for a full blown ? - I think we still owned about that much
> on the Nixie box. TI's SR-50 ... Been a TI and HP guy since.
> Went to HP in 85 and back to TI in 2008.
>
> I had a small circular slide rule, Dad had a tubular slide rule.
> We both still have slide rules in our desks and use them.
> Faster than getting out the banger and entering the number.
>
> Long calc's or complex ones bring out the box - one or the other.
Just a comment but I picked up a piece of software a while back called
"The Mathematical Explorer" for about a hundred bucks. Turned out to be
the Mathematica 6 core with a couple of features turned off and without
some of the add-on packages. They've discontinued that now and have a
full-featured version sold for non-commercial use for 400 bucks or so.
If you happen to find the older one though for the low price it's well
worth getting if you ever have to do any kind of serious computation.
> Martin
>
> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> On 3/30/2010 8:37 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>> On 3/30/2010 6:53 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>>
>>>> My favorite slide rule was the circular slide rule. For some spectra
>>>> conversion in IR or UV you could make the calculation on the circular
>>>> slide rule faster that any calculator today.
>>>
>>> Do you remember your first electronic calculator? I got a TI-30 (IIRC)
>>> when I went back to school briefly after the service. We weren't even
>>> allowed to bring them to class, much less take a test with it.
>>>
>> TI-30? That is only about 20 years old. The electronic calculator I am
>> talking about was bought in 1970. It had a big nixy(sp?) display and
>> was the size of a typewriter. It was significantly better that the old
>> mechanical one. It did X / + - and had 12 rows of 10 keys in each row.
>> Took several seconds to do simply + and - calculations and longer to
>> do X and /.
On 3/30/2010 3:13 PM, Morris Dovey wrote:
> The guy who taught my Calculus and Analytic Geometry class, by contrast,
> was clear, soft-spoken, and wrote everything on the blackboard as he
> lectured. He wrote with his right hand and erased with his left as he
> went, with pauses as he walked back to the left side of the board. It
> would have been humorous if I hadn't been in a permanent panic to get
> things into my notes before they disappeared. :)
Just having the youngest out of college, I know that taking notes in
class today can be as simple as hitting a button and letting the
recording device/laptop tape the lecture.
I can't help but think that letting technology do it for you probably
skips a vital link in the synapses that the process of writing it down
completes. I was thinking about that the other day when responding to
the thread on width, length, etc.
Botany prof drew pictures of plant cell structures on a blackboard and
students were required to handcopy them to a notebook that was part of
the course grade ....and today, 45 years later, those pictures I copied
from that blackboard are still vivid in my mind.
Also had a Korean grad student that taught an advanced math course full
of words like 'vector-value', 'differential', etc. that he couldn't
pronounce in an understandable manner to anyone ... a brilliant guy, but
he cost most of us a grade point or two.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Two thumbtacks and a closed string. Calculate the foci's points
from the major and minor axis. Simple algebra.
Once you know - then any size can be done.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ellipse
simply :
x^2/a^2 + y^2/b^2 = 1
where b^2 = a^2 - c^2.
where a is 1/2 long diameter and b = 1/2 short diameter
and c is 1/2 the length between pins.
Martin
SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> On Mar 29, 10:08 am, Keith Nuttle <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I have an oval picture for which I would like to make a frame. I can
>
>> Can I get suggestions making the cutout for the picture.
>>
>> Finishing the outside edges is obvious.
>
> You would probably go with an elipse cutting jig\tramel something like
> this (there are lots of them out there)
> http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/A_Jig_for_Drawing_or_Cutting_Ellipses.html
>
> The basic steps one would typically follow is...
> - Cut a template from MDF or other easy to cut material using the jig
> - Use the template to draw the shape on your blank stock
> - Cut the blank stock close to finish size with band\jig\scroll\ect.
> saw
> - Use the template to finish rout the real part using a bearing
> \pattern bit.
>
> For an oval you might want to be creative on the glue up of some stock
> using sticks to get a rough shape, maybe using half lap joints.
On 3/30/2010 5:01 PM, Nonny wrote:
>
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 3/30/2010 4:07 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>
>>> As for technology in the class room while there are negatives, there are
>>> all so some strong positives. If I have a computer in physical chemistry
>>> I may have a better understanding of how the various equation performed.
>>
>> I had a computer ... "me", with a slide rule. :)
>
> They're becoming forgotten. Slide rules put man on the moon. Back in HS
> and college, the classes like Physics and Chem had a half bushel basket
> by the door with school slide rules for the kids without their own.
Same mathematical functions as a computer, but these days the computer
is _much_ faster.
That wasn't always the case, even with electronic digital computers.
When I was in the Army we routinely beat "Freddie" FADAC (Field
Artillery Digital Automatic Computer) with our slide rules in the Fire
Direction Centers ... in combat we seldom used "Freddie" to actually
fire missions, just to check our slide rule results, if we didn't have
to wait on it.
It wasn't a matter of arithmetic trust, FADAC was just too damn slow.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 3/30/2010 6:53 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> My favorite slide rule was the circular slide rule. For some spectra
> conversion in IR or UV you could make the calculation on the circular
> slide rule faster that any calculator today.
Do you remember your first electronic calculator? I got a TI-30 (IIRC)
when I went back to school briefly after the service. We weren't even
allowed to bring them to class, much less take a test with it.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Morris Dovey wrote:
> One more tool:
>
> Analytic Geometry :)
I detested that class.
Prof was a Yugoslav, didn't have a great command of English. He had been a
partisan and his throat had been cut ear to ear; no idea if that affected
his speech but he was next to impossible to understand. It was the only
class I *ever* had to repeat.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
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