I want to build a 1930's or 40's style screen door complete with bronze
screen like the one at the cabin we visited as kids in northern Michigan.
The door closed with a nice loud whak.
I'm looking for suggestions on which wood to use. The door would rarely get
wet and sees very little direct sun thanks to a large front porch. It will
be primed and painted. I'm thinking clear alder, any other suggestions?
Thanks,
cm
cm wrote:
> I want to build a 1930's or 40's style screen door complete with
> bronze screen like the one at the cabin we visited as kids in
> northern Michigan. The door closed with a nice loud whak.
>
> I'm looking for suggestions on which wood to use. The door would
> rarely get wet and sees very little direct sun thanks to a large
> front porch. It will be primed and painted. I'm thinking clear alder,
> any other suggestions?
The one I built 14 years ago is Douglas fir. White oak would work well too.
Ditto poplar.
dadiOH
On Jun 8, 9:17=A0am, "cm" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I want to build a 1930's or 40's style screen door complete with bronze
> screen like the one at the cabin we visited as kids in northern Michigan.
> The door closed with a nice loud whak.
>
> I'm looking for suggestions on which wood to use. The door would rarely g=
et
> wet and sees very little direct sun thanks to a large front porch. It wil=
l
> be primed and painted. I'm thinking clear alder, any other suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> cm
I'd go with poplar and consider the possibility of laminated
construction if that is possible.
On 6/8/2009 8:22 AM Jim Willemin spake thus:
> "cm" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> I'm located in Arizona. The only indigenous woods readily available
>> may be fir/pine, and cottonwood. that I can think of that might be
>> suitable. We are very limited on our selection here compared to
>> California and many other states.
>
> Go with fir. Stronger than alder or (god forbid) cottonwood (aside: what
> do you make with cottonwood?).
Kachina dolls. Anyone in Arizona should know that.
--
Found--the gene that causes belief in genetic determinism
evodawg wrote:
> SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>
>> I would suggest very strong joints. Deep, pinned mortise and tennon
>> are best or pinned half laps would be OK. The slamming that screens
>> take will beat them apart in a season if they aren't well constructed.
>> I speak from experience from one of my very first home improvement
>> projects 20+ years ago where after about a year the doweled joints
>> just withered and the door fell to pieces, literally.
>
> I have thought about building one to. I'm wondering how Pocket Hole joints
> would hold up? I'm planning on using poplar.
I built two screen doors out of pine and used corrugated fasteners (wavy
nails) for the frame used a diagonal turnbuckle on each to maintain
squareness. The doors had been in use for nearly ten years when I moved
away, and were still in good shape.
Pocket hole joinery should make it really easy.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Jay Pique wrote:
> On Jun 8, 7:49 pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
>> evodawg wrote:
>>> SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>>>> I would suggest very strong joints. Deep, pinned mortise and tennon
>>>> are best or pinned half laps would be OK. The slamming that screens
>>>> take will beat them apart in a season if they aren't well constructed.
>>>> I speak from experience from one of my very first home improvement
>>>> projects 20+ years ago where after about a year the doweled joints
>>>> just withered and the door fell to pieces, literally.
>>> I have thought about building one to. I'm wondering how Pocket Hole joints
>>> would hold up? I'm planning on using poplar.
>> I built two screen doors out of pine and used corrugated fasteners (wavy
>> nails) for the frame used a diagonal turnbuckle on each to maintain
>> squareness. The doors had been in use for nearly ten years when I moved
>> away, and were still in good shape.
>
> So you just used butt joints with glue and something like 1/2x1"
> corrugated fasteners? That's some food for thought regarding ease and
> speed of assembly. What gun do you have? Do those fasteners come
> galvanized? We do a lot of screened in porches on our homes, and that
> gun could save us some time for sure.
No glue and no gun (16oz Plumb claw hammer). I watched a couple of guys
build a screen door in under a minute on (I think) the Johnny Carson
show one night and copied their method.
I cheated and used an Arrow stapler on the screen, but nailed the trim
to hide the staples and screen edge.
My two (then) pre-teen sons "helped" me and we timed the build - less
than ten minutes for both doors. It took longer than that to paint 'em
the next day.
(I like the pocket screw idea!)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
On Jun 8, 6:17=A0am, "cm" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I want to build a 1930's or 40's style screen door complete with bronze
> screen like the one at the cabin we visited as kids in northern Michigan.
> The door closed with a nice loud whak.
>
> I'm looking for suggestions on which wood to use. The door would rarely g=
et
> wet and sees very little direct sun thanks to a large front porch. It wil=
l
> be primed and painted. I'm thinking clear alder, any other suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> cm
I would go with red cedar for stability & durability & availability in
clear stock. Fir would be OK, but it splinters. Alder is not as
durable, but might be OK.
Luigi
On Jun 11, 10:17=A0am, Pat Barber <[email protected]> wrote:
> I live in N.C. and I can tell you that you don't
> want a SYP screen door. I have seen it tried and
> it won't work for very long.
>
> Douglas Fir remains the king of screen doors in
> my opinion.
>
> After many years of screwing around with screen
> doors, my next one is probably gonna be a nice
> aluminum model.
>
> Wood is fine but fiberglass is the finest material
> for exterior doors.
>
> It don't rot,twist,warp,bow or lose it's finish
> in a very brief period of time.
>
> I haven't seen a fiberglass screen door, but i would
> jump all over that if available.
I wouldn't think fiberglass would be rigid enough to resist racking.
Maybe fiberglass on a cedar core (e.g. canoe thwarts and keels)?
On Jun 8, 7:49=A0pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
> evodawg wrote:
> > SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>
> >> I would suggest very strong joints. Deep, pinned mortise and tennon
> >> are best or pinned half laps would be OK. The slamming that screens
> >> take will beat them apart in a season if they aren't well constructed.
> >> I speak from experience from one of my very first home improvement
> >> projects 20+ years ago where after about a year the doweled joints
> >> just withered and the door fell to pieces, literally.
>
> > I have thought about building one to. I'm wondering how Pocket Hole joi=
nts
> > would hold up? I'm planning on using poplar.
>
> I built two screen doors out of pine and used corrugated fasteners (wavy
> nails) for the frame used a diagonal turnbuckle on each to maintain
> squareness. The doors had been in use for nearly ten years when I moved
> away, and were still in good shape.
So you just used butt joints with glue and something like 1/2x1"
corrugated fasteners? That's some food for thought regarding ease and
speed of assembly. What gun do you have? Do those fasteners come
galvanized? We do a lot of screened in porches on our homes, and that
gun could save us some time for sure.
JP
"cm" <[email protected]> writes:
> I want to build a 1930's or 40's style screen door complete with bronze
> screen like the one at the cabin we visited as kids in northern Michigan.
> The door closed with a nice loud whak.
I used to spend Summers on a ranch with a wooden screen door like
that. Even had a little rubber ball thingy that would swing out if
someone let the door go (spring closed) and it would interject itself
between door and jam to muffle the "whak".
nb
"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jim Willemin wrote:
>> (aside: what do you make with cottonwood?).
>
A nice fire!
cm wrote:
> I want to build a 1930's or 40's style screen door complete with
> bronze screen like the one at the cabin we visited as kids in
> northern Michigan. The door closed with a nice loud whak.
>
> I'm looking for suggestions on which wood to use. The door would
> rarely get wet and sees very little direct sun thanks to a large
> front porch. It will be primed and painted. I'm thinking clear alder,
> any other suggestions?
Bronze screen?
Remember the Danube:
The years have come and the years have gone,
But the oft told tales not true,
For of all the things the Danube is,
The Danube is not BLUE!
The Danube is GREEN
Oh, it's as green as the grass that grows in the spring,
It's as green as the paint that goes on a screen,
It's as green as the money you spend on a fling,
The blue of the Danube is greener than green!
(Hat tip to Spike Jones)
I live in N.C. and I can tell you that you don't
want a SYP screen door. I have seen it tried and
it won't work for very long.
Douglas Fir remains the king of screen doors in
my opinion.
After many years of screwing around with screen
doors, my next one is probably gonna be a nice
aluminum model.
Wood is fine but fiberglass is the finest material
for exterior doors.
It don't rot,twist,warp,bow or lose it's finish
in a very brief period of time.
I haven't seen a fiberglass screen door, but i would
jump all over that if available.
SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> Pine is not Pine you might say.
>
> If it was SYP or some old growth type pine that is a very different
> animal than the "white" pine you will get a Lowes or HD, likely
> Ponderosa on the west coast.
"cm" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Sonny,
>
> I'm located in Arizona. The only indigenous woods readily available
> may be fir/pine, and cottonwood. that I can think of that might be
> suitable. We are very limited on our selection here compared to
> California and many other states.
>
> Thanks,
>
> cm
<snip Sonny's remarks>
Go with fir. Stronger than alder or (god forbid) cottonwood (aside: what
do you make with cottonwood?). Should be more stable, too.
Pine is not Pine you might say.
If it was SYP or some old growth type pine that is a very different
animal than the "white" pine you will get a Lowes or HD, likely
Ponderosa on the west coast. Much softer and knottier. You can upgrade
into Eastern Slope (of the Sierra) Lodgepole (ESL) and you'll have
smaller knots and a little more hardness but lots of the fast growth
Pine today won't stand up like what our grand dads could get.
On Jun 10, 12:12=A0pm, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
> cm wrote:
> > I want to build a 1930's or 40's style screen door complete with bronze
> > screen like the one at the cabin we visited as kids in northern Michiga=
n.
> > The door closed with a nice loud whak.
>
> > I'm looking for suggestions on which wood to use. The door would rarely=
get
> > wet and sees very little direct sun thanks to a large front porch. It w=
ill
> > be primed and painted. I'm thinking clear alder, any other suggestions?
>
> The pine screen door on the house I grew up in is over 100 years old far
> as I know. =A0My brother still lives in the house and the screen door is
> exactly as it was when I was born 63 years ago. =A0It always made the
> "whack" you speak of, the result of a long spring closer. =A0If the wood
> is not getting wet and not in the sun, about any wood will last forever.
>
> I could take a picture of it if you like, it is a rather nice, old
> fashion screen door.
>
> The door was green but I noticed my brother painted it white, probably
> 20 - 30 years ago...
>
> Pine is an excellent wood for weather as well, much better than oak. =A0I=
t
> is less durable though, so it should "wear" quite nicely:-)
>
> I'd suggest sturdy building methods if you want it to "whack" and last.
> Half lap joints or deep tongue mortise joints would be my choice. =A0I
> think this one has mortise and tenon joints if I had to guess.
>
> --
> Jack
> Using FREE News Server:http://Motzarella.orghttp://jbstein.com
Lots of people seem to look down on Pine but it is one of my favorite
woods. I have never had a chance to work with SYP but have always
heard it is nice stuff. I agree an exterior thin frame hanging from
one side on hinges of any wood is going to have challenges. I suppose
White Oak (as someone else mentioned (my absolute favorite wood) ) or
maybe Mahogany would hold up better in the elements.
On Jun 11, 8:17=A0am, Pat Barber <[email protected]> wrote:
> I live in N.C. and I can tell you that you don't
> want a SYP screen door. I have seen it tried and
> it won't work for very long.
>
> Douglas Fir remains the king of screen doors in
> my opinion.
>
> After many years of screwing around with screen
> doors, my next one is probably gonna be a nice
> aluminum model.
>
> Wood is fine but fiberglass is the finest material
> for exterior doors.
>
> It don't rot,twist,warp,bow or lose it's finish
> in a very brief period of time.
>
> I haven't seen a fiberglass screen door, but i would
> jump all over that if available.
>
>
>
> SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> > Pine is not Pine you might say.
>
> > If it was SYP or some old growth type pine that is a very different
> > animal than the "white" pine you will get a Lowes or HD, likely
> > Ponderosa on the west coast.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sonny,
I'm located in Arizona. The only indigenous woods readily available may be
fir/pine, and cottonwood. that I can think of that might be suitable. We are
very limited on our selection here compared to California and many other
states.
Thanks,
cm
"Sonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:f5ab1d43-4ef7-47a9-8007-b66861d5feb9@o36g2000vbi.googlegroups.com...
>A weather resistant lumber that is indigenous to your area is what I
> would suggest. I'm not familiar with lumber native to your area, so I
> can't specify a particular wood. I would, also, strongly consider
> something that was milled from an old sinker log, if readily
> available.
> Sonny
On Jun 8, 10:19=A0am, [email protected] wrote:
> "cm" <[email protected]> writes:
> > I want to build a 1930's or 40's style screen door complete with bronze
> > screen like the one at the cabin we visited as kids in northern Michiga=
n.
> > The door closed with a nice loud whak.
>
> I used to spend Summers on a ranch with a wooden screen door like
> that. =A0Even had a little rubber ball thingy that would swing out if
> someone let the door go (spring closed) and it would interject itself
> between door and jam to muffle the "whak".
>
> nb =A0
You can still find those "rubber ball thingys" at www.rusticworkbench.com.
khc
If it is being painted and doesn't take a lot of direct rain then
almost and material is really OK. If you can get Cedar that would be
great but poplar would be OK too.
I would suggest very strong joints. Deep, pinned mortise and tennon
are best or pinned half laps would be OK. The slamming that screens
take will beat them apart in a season if they aren't well constructed.
I speak from experience from one of my very first home improvement
projects 20+ years ago where after about a year the doweled joints
just withered and the door fell to pieces, literally.
On Jun 8, 6:17=A0am, "cm" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I want to build a 1930's or 40's style screen door complete with bronze
> screen like the one at the cabin we visited as kids in northern Michigan.
> The door closed with a nice loud whak.
>
> I'm looking for suggestions on which wood to use. The door would rarely g=
et
> wet and sees very little direct sun thanks to a large front porch. It wil=
l
> be primed and painted. I'm thinking clear alder, any other suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> cm
"Jim Willemin" <jim***willemin@hot***mail.com> wrote in message =
news:[email protected]...
> "cm" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:=20
>=20
> > Sonny,
> >=20
> > I'm located in Arizona. The only indigenous woods readily available
> > may be fir/pine, and cottonwood. that I can think of that might be
> > suitable. We are very limited on our selection here compared to
> > California and many other states.
> >=20
> > Thanks,
> >=20
> > cm
> <snip Sonny's remarks>
>=20
> Go with fir. Stronger than alder or (god forbid) cottonwood (aside: =
what=20
> do you make with cottonwood?). Should be more stable, too.
>=20
Cottonwood candy, fuzzballs?? :-)
P D Q
cm wrote:
> Sonny,
>
> I'm located in Arizona. The only indigenous woods readily available may be
> fir/pine, and cottonwood. ...
Fir would be ideal, white pine was the standard for door/window stock
from Colonial days. You may have trouble finding clear pine locally,
though, depending on your sources.
Cottonwood is a terrible wood for almost every construction purpose--it
is very unstable specifically which even in your dry climate would make
it a poor choice for a door. It doesn't weather particularly well, either.
In the High Plains, also w/ a lack of indigenous timber, in the early
pioneer days several mills were set up to try to make a lumber industry
from the cottonwoods that did line the banks of some of the rivers and
streams. Despite no competition for lumber that didn't have the
associate high costs of shipping from much farther away, none of these
ventures survived any time of consequence owing to the poor
characteristics of the lumber.
--
Rich wrote:
> "Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Jim Willemin wrote:
>>> (aside: what do you make with cottonwood?).
> A nice fire!
I don't know what was intended, but cottonwood doesn't make good
firewood, either... :)
--
SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> I would suggest very strong joints. Deep, pinned mortise and tennon
> are best or pinned half laps would be OK. The slamming that screens
> take will beat them apart in a season if they aren't well constructed.
> I speak from experience from one of my very first home improvement
> projects 20+ years ago where after about a year the doweled joints
> just withered and the door fell to pieces, literally.
I have thought about building one to. I'm wondering how Pocket Hole joints
would hold up? I'm planning on using poplar.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
cm wrote:
> I want to build a 1930's or 40's style screen door complete with bronze
> screen like the one at the cabin we visited as kids in northern Michigan.
> The door closed with a nice loud whak.
>
> I'm looking for suggestions on which wood to use. The door would rarely get
> wet and sees very little direct sun thanks to a large front porch. It will
> be primed and painted. I'm thinking clear alder, any other suggestions?
The pine screen door on the house I grew up in is over 100 years old far
as I know. My brother still lives in the house and the screen door is
exactly as it was when I was born 63 years ago. It always made the
"whack" you speak of, the result of a long spring closer. If the wood
is not getting wet and not in the sun, about any wood will last forever.
I could take a picture of it if you like, it is a rather nice, old
fashion screen door.
The door was green but I noticed my brother painted it white, probably
20 - 30 years ago...
Pine is an excellent wood for weather as well, much better than oak. It
is less durable though, so it should "wear" quite nicely:-)
I'd suggest sturdy building methods if you want it to "whack" and last.
Half lap joints or deep tongue mortise joints would be my choice. I
think this one has mortise and tenon joints if I had to guess.
--
Jack
Using FREE News Server: http://Motzarella.org
http://jbstein.com
"Jimbo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Jun 8, 9:17 am, "cm" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I want to build a 1930's or 40's style screen door complete with bronze
> screen like the one at the cabin we visited as kids in northern Michigan.
> The door closed with a nice loud whak.
I like northern Michigan too, especially in the summer time! I must have
been about 12 when my dad fixed our patio door so it wouldn't close like
that anymore (with a standard "air pressure stabilizer"--I'm not sure of the
right terminology). I am reliving the relief as I sit here (how many loud
"WHAK's" do you need to hear?) We were instructed to close it gently, but
you know how other kids are. Good luck with your door!
Bill
SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> Lots of people seem to look down on Pine but it is one of my favorite
> woods. I have never had a chance to work with SYP but have always
> heard it is nice stuff. I agree an exterior thin frame hanging from
> one side on hinges of any wood is going to have challenges. I suppose
> White Oak (as someone else mentioned (my absolute favorite wood) ) or
> maybe Mahogany would hold up better in the elements.
...
Eastern white pine is the traditional window frame/door material. Ages
ago, it wasn't hard at all to find it in large sizes essentially clear;
now it is still available but pricey and a very sizable fraction goes to
the commercial window people such as Andersen et al. and is never on the
market.
SYP is a mixed bag; as someone else noted, early growth in it is
probably the most notably different in characteristics from most of what
one obtains today as any wood I know. Most now is produced on managed
tracts and grows at a much faster rate than did the specimens from the
virgin pine woods. Consequently, it tended to have a much more closely
spaced growth rings and so the amount of soft wood between the harder
rings was much reduced. It works easily enough when fresh but the
resins tend to really harden and it is much harder and less amenable to
handwork if old. It tends to produce splinters if grain is not parallel
to edges similar to fir. A splinter that starts is almost impossible to
prevent from continuing to separate.
--
On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 06:17:16 -0700, "cm" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I want to build a 1930's or 40's style screen door complete with bronze
>screen like the one at the cabin we visited as kids in northern Michigan.
>The door closed with a nice loud whak.
>
>I'm looking for suggestions on which wood to use. The door would rarely get
>wet and sees very little direct sun thanks to a large front porch. It will
>be primed and painted. I'm thinking clear alder, any other suggestions?
>
>Thanks,
>
>cm
>
White oak, cypress, teak. Poplar is often used and takes paint well
but you got to be sure to seal all end grain, poplar will rot.
Fir has been the primary wood for screen doors
but alder should certainly work given the conditions
you describe.
cm wrote:
> I want to build a 1930's or 40's style screen door complete with bronze
> screen like the one at the cabin we visited as kids in northern Michigan.
> The door closed with a nice loud whak.
>
> I'm looking for suggestions on which wood to use. The door would rarely get
> wet and sees very little direct sun thanks to a large front porch. It will
> be primed and painted. I'm thinking clear alder, any other suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> cm
>
>
It would need to be some sort of
frame surrounded by glass.
I suspect with all that slamming,
glass might not be a good choice.
I have seen a composite door made by
"Screen Tight" but they are kinda ugly.
http://www.screentight.com/
I just noticed that they also sell a
solid wood door.
http://www.screentight.com/prod-screen-doors-wood.shtml
and a pressure treated model.
[email protected] wrote:
> Maybe fiberglass on a cedar core (e.g. canoe thwarts and keels)?
>