My ancient detached shop/garage has an uninsulated roof and now that
temps are parked in the 90's with full sunshine most days, the heat
radiating from the roof turns it into an oven. Things inside (like
projects) get warm to the touch and the ambient temperature soars to
about 105°(40.6°C). I've had to move all glues and solvents and
anything else that might be temperature sensitive into the house. As
you can imagine, it makes things like brushing shellac difficult. Any
ideas for a cheap remedy just for the radiating heat problem? I know I
could insulate the roof, but that isn't the direction I want to go with
this space. Before winter sets in, I want to frame about half of the
inside of the building into a room for the wood shop and insulate that,
but I didn't want to do it now. The building is about a 1000 sq/ft and
the roof is over 12' high at the peak, so that isn't very practical
anyway. I was thinking along the lines of maybe using a reflective
coating for the roof or tacking down tarps to cut down on the heat
absorbing properties of the black shingles. Does this sound practical
at all?
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:21:13 -0500, Hax Planx <mourningwood@spamcast.net> wrote:
>My ancient detached shop/garage has an uninsulated roof and now that
>temps are parked in the 90's with full sunshine most days, the heat
>radiating from the roof turns it into an oven. Things inside (like
>projects) get warm to the touch and the ambient temperature soars to
>about 105°(40.6°C). I've had to move all glues and solvents and
>anything else that might be temperature sensitive into the house. As
>you can imagine, it makes things like brushing shellac difficult. Any
>ideas for a cheap remedy just for the radiating heat problem? I know I
>could insulate the roof, but that isn't the direction I want to go with
>this space. Before winter sets in, I want to frame about half of the
>inside of the building into a room for the wood shop and insulate that,
>but I didn't want to do it now. The building is about a 1000 sq/ft and
>the roof is over 12' high at the peak, so that isn't very practical
>anyway. I was thinking along the lines of maybe using a reflective
>coating for the roof or tacking down tarps to cut down on the heat
>absorbing properties of the black shingles. Does this sound practical
>at all?
I'm working in an uninsulated 2 car garage with a dark colored roof.. average
temp in central Ca. in summer is about 102, so I feel your pain..
A few things that I've done to make it tolerable:
I hung one of those round floor fans from the roof beams.. blows hot air out of
ceiling area and out garage door..
Cheap portable evaporative cooler.. (only works in low humidity areas).. it's up
against the only window, blowing out... doubles as an air filter and picks up a
LOT of dust..
I keep a LARGE travel mug handy with about a quart of ice water.. refilled often
to prevent dehydration...
Wireless thermometer... this will sound funny, but it helps.. lol
The main unit is on the work bench, the remote is on the patio, which is covered
but has afternoon sun...
It's amazing what a mental thing it is, to see that it's 1 degree cooler in the
shop than on the patio..
It would be nice to have a larger, cooler shop, but it's all i have and I work
in it year round..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
How about actively removing the heat: a gable-mounted exhaust fan, with
or without a thermostat control. Depending on the CFM, you'll need a
certain area of "inlet" into your shop of fresh air - got a screened
window?
The collateral benefit to the exhaust fan is it moves out the fine dust
too.
-Chris
Hax Planx wrote:
> My ancient detached shop/garage has an uninsulated roof and now that
> temps are parked in the 90's with full sunshine most days, the heat
> radiating from the roof turns it into an oven.
I re-roofed my entire house and garage in January. I went back with
radiant barrier and ridge vents AND a BLACK roof! The garage (my shop)
is now cooler than it has ever been. I lower the garage door about
half way in the afternoon to block the afternoon sun. Its the first
time I've been able to tolerate working out there during the day in the
summer. Yes, I need a fan blowing on me, but it used to be unworkable
at all.
As you know, I too, live in Houston.
Bob Davis
"Hax Planx" <mourningwood@spamcast.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d2b34f03bfffa79989828@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> My ancient detached shop/garage has an uninsulated roof and now that
> temps are parked in the 90's with full sunshine most days, the heat
> radiating from the roof turns it into an oven. Things inside (like
> projects) get warm to the touch and the ambient temperature soars to
> about 105°(40.6°C). I've had to move all glues and solvents and
> anything else that might be temperature sensitive into the house. As
> you can imagine, it makes things like brushing shellac difficult. Any
> ideas for a cheap remedy just for the radiating heat problem? I know I
> could insulate the roof, but that isn't the direction I want to go with
> this space. Before winter sets in, I want to frame about half of the
> inside of the building into a room for the wood shop and insulate that,
> but I didn't want to do it now. The building is about a 1000 sq/ft and
> the roof is over 12' high at the peak, so that isn't very practical
> anyway. I was thinking along the lines of maybe using a reflective
> coating for the roof or tacking down tarps to cut down on the heat
> absorbing properties of the black shingles. Does this sound practical
> at all?
I'd say you need to put in some roof vents. If the air inside is hotter than
the air outside then it will try to escape upwards. If you have no
ventilation in the top half of your building then the heat has no place to
go. Thing to remember is, if you ventilate the top of your building, you
need to allow intake vents in the bottom half of your building too. Vents
come in all types and sizes some powered others not. I've had good luck
cooling my houses attic crawlspace and workshop (small as it is it don't
take much..) with Whirly turbine type nonpowered vents. These are the
spinner type you see on warehouses and such. They are cheap and effective.
Venting isn't the cure all answer, but it is an affordable starting place.
Good luck getting the heat out.
Aloha...
Craig
Mike in Arkansas wrote:
> Does anyone have any actual experience with the radiant barrier paints?
> Are they as effective as aluminum barriers assuming both are applied
> against the roof decking?
I had our builder install radiant barrier paint. They applied it on the
underside (visible from the attic) of the roof decking. I'm also in
Texas (Dallas area) where the temps are currently getting to the high
90's. I honestly don't know if the paint helps, because I have nothing
to compare it to. My cooling bills are still very high, but who knows
how high they'd be without the paint. We also did the blown cellulose
insulation, which certainly looks like it would be more effective than
the standard stuff. That attic still gets very hot so I'm thinking that
the paint is not that great, or there was a problem with the way it was
applied.
I have the same problem as the OP in my gara..shop. It's a three car
garage with the metal doors facing west and it gets downright toasty in
the late afternoon. I just added panels of of exterior sheathing (foil
on one side, R5 value)and I really don't think it helped much. I'm now
comtemplating an exhaust (or intake) fan arrangement of some sort. I
have a side door which is currently unused and blocked by equipment,
but I could utilize it for a fan. The door is near my shop area and I'm
thinking I could set up a heavy duty box fan to pull in fresh air
through an AC filter and crack one of the garage doors to allow the air
to escape. That way I'd be pulling slightly cooler air from the east
and exhausing it to the hot west side.
I could also install a window AC unit in that door, but I think the
cost to operate it would be astronomical.
Tom
Hey Steve, did you do any calculations on the BTU you slelcted based on
the square footage and temperature? What's your square footage?
Also, let's say the shop has been closed up all day and you turn on the
AC at 3:00 in the afternoon. What's the inside air temp before you turn
it on? How long does it take the window unit to get the shop down to
your "comfortable" temp? What do you estimate the operating cost of the
unit to be?
Thanks,
Tom
mine is an unsulated all steel building... and I live in Arizona. temps
here have been above 100 for a couple of weeks straight. I have a
cooler on a cart that I aim in the door when I'm in there and a powered
ventilator on a thermostat sucking the hot air out the roof. together
they keep the temp to a survivable inferno...
> "David" <David@invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:KPmdnW0wWNFhCFzfRVn-2Q@comcast.com...
> > Are we really arguing?? :) Isn't a radiant barrier a form of insulation?
>
Leon wrote:
> No, not really by definition, although its purpose is pretty much the same.
> It reflects the heat rather than stops its movement into a cooler area.
> Insulation pretty much absorbs heat.
nope. mass absorbs heat. insulation slows it down.
a heavy brick wall will take longer to heat up than aluminum siding
over frame, but it will hold that heat late into the night. insulation
slows down the transmission of heat. add r80 in the form of fiberglass
of rigid foam or whatever and the inside of the house will stay cooler
longer into the day and cool down earlier in the evening.
Hax Planx wrote:
> Prometheus says...
>
> > Have you considered installing a fan in the wall near the peak of the
> > roof, where the heat collects? If you do that, and open a window at
> > your level, it should cool the place down fairly quickly and
> > signifigantly. Even a good size passive vent might help quite a bit.
>
> Most people are recommending vents and fans, but it is a cinder block
> building and they would be difficult to install.
install the vent through the roof.
In article <MPG.1d2b34f03bfffa79989828@newsgroups.comcast.net>,
Hax Planx <mourningwood@spamcast.net> wrote:
>My ancient detached shop/garage has an uninsulated roof and now that
>temps are parked in the 90's with full sunshine most days, the heat
>radiating from the roof turns it into an oven. Things inside (like
>projects) get warm to the touch and the ambient temperature soars to
>about 105°(40.6°C). I've had to move all glues and solvents and
>anything else that might be temperature sensitive into the house. As
>you can imagine, it makes things like brushing shellac difficult. Any
>ideas for a cheap remedy just for the radiating heat problem? I know I
>could insulate the roof, but that isn't the direction I want to go with
>this space. Before winter sets in, I want to frame about half of the
>inside of the building into a room for the wood shop and insulate that,
>but I didn't want to do it now. The building is about a 1000 sq/ft and
>the roof is over 12' high at the peak, so that isn't very practical
>anyway. I was thinking along the lines of maybe using a reflective
>coating for the roof or tacking down tarps to cut down on the heat
>absorbing properties of the black shingles. Does this sound practical
>at all?
There are a few 'cheap' solutions.
1) a large 'barn fan'. venting to the outside. this will help pull the
'inside' temperature down to 'approximately' what it is outside.
2) "water the roof". Intermittantly -- just enough to dampen it, and let
it evaporate off. As long as the ambient humidity isn't excessive,
your water costs are reasonable, and you don't have excessive amounts
of minerals in the water, this can be suprisingly effective. If tap
water quality is suspect, or expensive, build a cistern to capture
the rainwater from the roof, and 'recycle' it. :)
In article <0gf5c112g849n0v69faeb66dl896oc464s@4ax.com>,
mac davis <mac.davis@splinters.comcast.net> wrote:
>
<<-- sneck -->>
>
>Cheap portable evaporative cooler.. (only works in low humidity areas).. it's up
>against the only window, blowing out... doubles as an air filter and picks up a
>LOT of dust..
Note: if it is blowing _out_, you're not getting *any* cooling advantage from
it. the 'coolth' is on the side that the air blows out of.
"Pat Barber" <MBOCEANSIDE@WORLDNET.ATT.NET> wrote in message
news:GMiwe.367697$cg1.35302@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> $50 a month for heating and cooling ??? They must have
> figured out a brand new way to heat water for the
> laundry or dish washer.
>
> I don't think my home would be that low if "nobody" was living there.
Laundry and dishwashing are not heating and cooling costs directly.
The $50 sounds very cheap given today's energy, but not impossible in a well
insulated house. I can do 2000 sq. ft. for less than $100
As for the people living there, they add to the total heating, not to the
cost.
Body functions = heat
Light bulbs = heat
Computer = heat
Cooking = heat
Washing + drying clothes = heat
I have been following this thread with interest, because I am also trying to
cool my workshop, and provide winter heat. But just ventilation won't do
the job; here in NC humidity is as big a problem as the heat. If I bring in
outside air, I just bring in moisture. I put in a window AC/heat unit,
11000 BTU, and can get a nice, comfortable temperature. Now I would like to
add insulation to cut operating cost, but it looks like it will cost over
$500 for insulation, which will then need to be installed just below the
roof on stringers that are 11' high. The fiberglass insulation that comes
24" wide is R-30. Does it make sense to put that much insulation in a space
with two garage doors and nothing in the walls?
Steve
"Prometheus" <noneofyer@business.org> wrote in message
news:lnq4c1du915kbdr22t2bb2g6etqhgslidl@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:21:13 -0500, Hax Planx
> <mourningwood@spamcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Any
>>ideas for a cheap remedy just for the radiating heat problem? I know I
>>could insulate the roof, but that isn't the direction I want to go with
>>this space.
>
> Have you considered installing a fan in the wall near the peak of the
> roof, where the heat collects? If you do that, and open a window at
> your level, it should cool the place down fairly quickly and
> signifigantly. Even a good size passive vent might help quite a bit.
Hax Planx wrote:
> My ancient detached shop/garage has an uninsulated roof and now that
> temps are parked in the 90's with full sunshine most days, the heat
> radiating from the roof turns it into an oven. Things inside (like
> projects) get warm to the touch and the ambient temperature soars to
> about 105°(40.6°C). I've had to move all glues and solvents and
> anything else that might be temperature sensitive into the house. As
> you can imagine, it makes things like brushing shellac difficult. Any
> ideas for a cheap remedy just for the radiating heat problem? I know I
> could insulate the roof, but that isn't the direction I want to go with
> this space. Before winter sets in, I want to frame about half of the
> inside of the building into a room for the wood shop and insulate that,
> but I didn't want to do it now. The building is about a 1000 sq/ft and
> the roof is over 12' high at the peak, so that isn't very practical
> anyway. I was thinking along the lines of maybe using a reflective
> coating for the roof or tacking down tarps to cut down on the heat
> absorbing properties of the black shingles. Does this sound practical
> at all?
Here's a couple of things that I have done to cool my shed. It's 40' x
20' approx. tin with a concrete floor. The temperature here in
Kalgoorlie is usually above 30c in summer and it is not uncommon to have
more than a few 45c days.
Currently it's between 0 and 20c= bloody cold :)
1. Installed a whirlybird fan in the roof.
2. Hung shade cloth over the metal roller door.
3. Purchased 16mm chipboard cover sheets, about $10.00 each when they
are available and lined the inside walls with pink bats between. I
just started with the North wall and as material and money, became
available continued on.
4. Started insulating the roof. Once again using 3-6mm cover sheets
with bats. Also had some 2" styrene which worked wonders. As the roof
is not completed you can certainly tell the difference when standing
under a lined section to a corrugated iron section.
5. Placed an evaporative air conditioner in the wall, a freebie. It
does it's job as we have a very dry heat.
6. Made awnings for the windows.
As each of the above jobs took place a noticeable difference was made.
A method I have seen done and am assured is rather effective is to cover
the roof with shade cloth, with 6" spacers to hold it of the steel.
Painting the roof white should not be rejected either. this can produce
anything up to a 8c difference in temperature.
Hope this will help some.
As with all things money and time usually rule the day ;)
regards
John
"Hax Planx" <mourningwood@spamcast.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d2be7feba338d29989833@newsgroups.comcast.net...
Snip
>
> I know that's more than anybody wanted to know, but since I spent five
> years cramming on this stuff, it should be useful for something.
Well said Hax. Thanks for the technical details.
"Leon" <removespamlcb11211@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:pfhwe.589$U61.80@newssvr11.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "David" <David@invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:KPmdnW0wWNFhCFzfRVn-2Q@comcast.com...
>> Are we really arguing?? :) Isn't a radiant barrier a form of insulation?
>
> No, not really by definition, although its purpose is pretty much the
> same. It reflects the heat rather than stops its movement into a cooler
> area. Insulation pretty much absorbs heat.
As a P.S. to my comment. My supplier was very insistant that knew to lay
the radiant barrier decking with the foil side down as some of the
installers put it with the foil side up and the roofs only lasted 4 or 5
years. Radiant barrier IIRC does nothing to keep a house from getting cold
in the winter.
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:21:13 -0500, Hax Planx
<mourningwood@spamcast.net> wrote:
>My ancient detached shop/garage has an uninsulated roof and now that
>temps are parked in the 90's with full sunshine most days, the heat
>radiating from the roof turns it into an oven. Things inside (like
>projects) get warm to the touch and the ambient temperature soars to
>about 105°(40.6°C). I've had to move all glues and solvents and
>anything else that might be temperature sensitive into the house. As
>you can imagine, it makes things like brushing shellac difficult. Any
>ideas for a cheap remedy just for the radiating heat problem? I know I
>could insulate the roof, but that isn't the direction I want to go with
>this space. Before winter sets in, I want to frame about half of the
>inside of the building into a room for the wood shop and insulate that,
>but I didn't want to do it now. The building is about a 1000 sq/ft and
>the roof is over 12' high at the peak, so that isn't very practical
>anyway. I was thinking along the lines of maybe using a reflective
>coating for the roof or tacking down tarps to cut down on the heat
>absorbing properties of the black shingles. Does this sound practical
>at all?
here in n.c. it gets pretty hot in the summer months. do you have
vents at each end of the building? if so, you could put a large fan
blowing out at one end. my shop is uninsulated also exept for the foam
sheating under the siding. nothing in the roof. it is under a few
shade trees and 2 story so i am sure that is helping. my shop stayes
cool up till around 4 pm in the summer. after then i go to the house.
if you dont insulate then ventilation and air flow are the key to
keeping cool. on days i want to work in the late afternoon i set a fan
blowing in downstairs and one or two blowing out upstairs. seems to
work ok. i have a window a c unit that suposedly works. havent ever
pluged it in so i cant say weather it does or not. you are welcome to
it if ya want to haul it home. maybe it willl make it cooler to work
in there but might be kind o exspensive. lol.
skeez
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:15:34 -0500, Hax Planx
<mourningwood@spamcast.net> wrote:
>TheNewGuy says...
>
>> How about actively removing the heat: a gable-mounted exhaust fan, with
>> or without a thermostat control. Depending on the CFM, you'll need a
>> certain area of "inlet" into your shop of fresh air - got a screened
>> window?
>>
>> The collateral benefit to the exhaust fan is it moves out the fine dust
>> too.
>>
>> -Chris
>
>A gable fan and vent system would be nice, but it is a cinder block
>building and the cinder blocks go all the way to the crown. Would a fan
>really cut down much on the radiant heat?
It dropped the temperature in my old shop from scorching hot to
whatever temperature it was outside in a matter of minutes, and it
sounds like you have exactly the same situation in yours. IIRC, they
had some vent fans that mounted directly to the inside of the roof
right next to the ones mounted on the wall at the hardware store, so
that may be easier.
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:18:34 -0500, Hax Planx
<mourningwood@spamcast.net> wrote:
>skeezics says...
>
>> here in n.c. it gets pretty hot in the summer months. do you have
>> vents at each end of the building? if so, you could put a large fan
>> blowing out at one end. my shop is uninsulated also exept for the foam
>> sheating under the siding. nothing in the roof. it is under a few
>> shade trees and 2 story so i am sure that is helping. my shop stayes
>> cool up till around 4 pm in the summer. after then i go to the house.
>> if you dont insulate then ventilation and air flow are the key to
>> keeping cool. on days i want to work in the late afternoon i set a fan
>> blowing in downstairs and one or two blowing out upstairs. seems to
>> work ok. i have a window a c unit that suposedly works. havent ever
>> pluged it in so i cant say weather it does or not. you are welcome to
>> it if ya want to haul it home. maybe it willl make it cooler to work
>> in there but might be kind o exspensive. lol.
>>
>> skeez
>
>I can only imagine what I would pay for AC out there. No vents and they
>would be difficult to install.
its a window unit. missing the inside grill but in a shop it wont
matter. i was going to cut a hole in the wall for it but my shop seems
to stay cool enough.
skeez
"Swingman" <kac@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:ePidnRxoG73gHVzfRVn-rA@giganews.com...
> It _is_ amazing how proper construction methods can keep temperatures down
> inside a structure.
It is amazing. My wife and I have been looking at new homes and Ryland is
guaranteeing that heating and cooling costs will not be over about $50 per
month on average for a full 3 years. This is on homes ranging in size from
2,000 to 3000 sq feet. IIRC they are using radiant barrier plus that new
blown in wall insulation that is made up of old newspapers like on TOH.
> I just walked in from checking the gas furnace line installation in the
> attic of a new house built with radiant barrier roof decking and ridge
> venting ... it was no hotter in that attic than it is outside today in
> Houston.
That is the way my store room is. You can almost touch the decking and it
is no warmer.
> As you well appreciate, being in an attic in Houston at 11 AM on a sunny
> June day can be a scorching experience in the older houses. AAMOF, the
> shingles on this one were already too hot to install the HVAC roof vents
> ...
> I like to have that done at first light, before the sun get overhead, to
> keep from damaging the shingles.
>
> Now, if I ever get the time to build that new $hop ...
Where are you planing on putting that new shop? LOL
$50 a month for heating and cooling ??? They must have
figured out a brand new way to heat water for the
laundry or dish washer.
At the VERY cheap rate of .08 per kwh, that works out
to 625 kwh per month for heat or cooling.
I don't think my home would be that low if "nobody"
was living there.
I assume these homes are NOT total electric ???
Leon wrote:
>
> It is amazing. My wife and I have been looking at new homes and Ryland is
> guaranteeing that heating and cooling costs will not be over about $50 per
> month on average for a full 3 years. This is on homes ranging in size from
> 2,000 to 3000 sq feet. IIRC they are using radiant barrier plus that new
> blown in wall insulation that is made up of old newspapers like on TOH.
My garage (shop - don't tell SWMBO) is 24' square, and the walls are about
11' high, supporting a standard ^ roof, no ceiling. So it is 576 sq. ft.,
and a lot of cubic feet. It gets morning sun, but there are trees on the
west that start shading by midafternoon. The 11000 BTU AC can cool it down
quickly, maybe 15 minutes, and the compressor goes off when it reaches the
set temp. Biggest thing is it removes humidity, which is 90% today. It has
only been in service for a week, so I don't yet know how much it costs. As
I said, I am trying to figure out insulation.
Steve
<tom_murphy@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1120067716.392809.42210@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Hey Steve, did you do any calculations on the BTU you slelcted based on
> the square footage and temperature? What's your square footage?
>
> Also, let's say the shop has been closed up all day and you turn on the
> AC at 3:00 in the afternoon. What's the inside air temp before you turn
> it on? How long does it take the window unit to get the shop down to
> your "comfortable" temp? What do you estimate the operating cost of the
> unit to be?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
Are we really arguing?? :) Isn't a radiant barrier a form of insulation?
Dave
Leon wrote:
> "David" <David@invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:wbmdnY_k0bev5VzfRVn-uQ@comcast.com...
>
>>is that room primarily or wholly in the shade, Leon? There isn't any way
>>to be comfortable in a totally uninsulated outbuilding here during the
>>summer if the sun beats down on it. White roof, brown roof, purple
>>roof--makes such a marginal difference if there's no insulation in the
>>walls/roof. In fact I've got almost the same roof on my shed as on my
>>house and the house is hotter than the shed because of all the frickin
>>single pane glass that I've yet to replace. Removing a wide sliding door
>>(single pane) on the south side of the house and replacing it with a 36"
>>triple glazed door helped tremendously to keep that end of the house
>>cooler. YMMV--and apparently it does. <g>
>>
>
> No, not in the shade at all. In fact when I painted it brown it became
> slightly warmer. I went with radiant barrier because I wanted to see if it
> really worked and it only cost me $24 more than standard decking. I was
> really amazed at how much it helped.
>
>
Robert Bonomi says...
> 1) a large 'barn fan'. venting to the outside. this will help pull the
> 'inside' temperature down to 'approximately' what it is outside.
>
> 2) "water the roof". Intermittantly -- just enough to dampen it, and let
> it evaporate off. As long as the ambient humidity isn't excessive,
> your water costs are reasonable, and you don't have excessive amounts
> of minerals in the water, this can be suprisingly effective. If tap
> water quality is suspect, or expensive, build a cistern to capture
> the rainwater from the roof, and 'recycle' it. :)
Water is an interesting idea. I'll have to try that.
TheNewGuy says...
> How about actively removing the heat: a gable-mounted exhaust fan, with
> or without a thermostat control. Depending on the CFM, you'll need a
> certain area of "inlet" into your shop of fresh air - got a screened
> window?
>
> The collateral benefit to the exhaust fan is it moves out the fine dust
> too.
>
> -Chris
A gable fan and vent system would be nice, but it is a cinder block
building and the cinder blocks go all the way to the crown. Would a fan
really cut down much on the radiant heat?
skeezics says...
> here in n.c. it gets pretty hot in the summer months. do you have
> vents at each end of the building? if so, you could put a large fan
> blowing out at one end. my shop is uninsulated also exept for the foam
> sheating under the siding. nothing in the roof. it is under a few
> shade trees and 2 story so i am sure that is helping. my shop stayes
> cool up till around 4 pm in the summer. after then i go to the house.
> if you dont insulate then ventilation and air flow are the key to
> keeping cool. on days i want to work in the late afternoon i set a fan
> blowing in downstairs and one or two blowing out upstairs. seems to
> work ok. i have a window a c unit that suposedly works. havent ever
> pluged it in so i cant say weather it does or not. you are welcome to
> it if ya want to haul it home. maybe it willl make it cooler to work
> in there but might be kind o exspensive. lol.
>
> skeez
I can only imagine what I would pay for AC out there. No vents and they
would be difficult to install.
Leon says...
> Well I am going to differ from David's view. I live in Houston. Last
> year I built a storage room in my back yard with no insulation. I used
> Radiant barrier decking for the roof and went with 30# felt and a premium
> asphalt shingle on top of that.
> The room stays closed up all day long and the inside temperature never feels
> higher than the out side temperature. 2 weeks ago I painted the out side a
> medium brown color and the inside temperature rose slightly.
> While it may not be feasible to re roof your building and put down radiant
> barrier decking there is radiant barrier paint that can be sprayed up on the
> bottom of the roof. They may help and be relatively inexpensive.
> Keep in mind also that insulation does not warm or cool a building it simply
> slows the temperature movement going from a warmer area to a cooler area.
> If the building does not cool down at night insulation is probably not going
> to help. IMHO the trick here is to reflect the heat with the proper
> materials.
>
> Oddly the radiant barrier products face towards the inside of the building.
> the metallic surface on the decking faced down and the radiant barrier paint
> is applied on the same surface facing down.
I'm thinking a radiant barrier would help a lot. Actually, just about
any barrier would probably help. I asked about radiant barrier paint
today at a box store and the paint guru said they had glow in the dark
paint and fluorescent colors. I said nothing and walked away with a
permanent loss of an IQ point. I saw I could get 1000 sq ft of radiant
barrier online for $100 and $40 shipping, but installing it would be an
interesting challenge. That's probably the way to go for the long run
though.
David says...
> In a word, NO! Been there, done that. I had a shed that was hotter
> than a firecracker when the sun came out. I painted the roof stark
> white and put a thin layer of insulation on the inside of the roof. The
> temperature drop was nearly unnoticeable. Years later I tore the shed
> down and built my own. fiberglass shingle roof, 2 small gable vents,
> thicker insulation AND I insulated the walls that were exposed to the
> sun. Now on a HOT, HOT day I can walk into that shed and be greeted by
> coolness akin to walking under a large shade tree.
>
> If you don't insulate where the heat load is coming from you can forget
> about cooling your shop. Of course the dark roof is much of the
> problem, but the larger problem is lack of insulation.
>
> Dave
I know renovation is probably the way to go, but I was hoping for a band
aid cure for now.
Leon says...
> No, not really by definition, although its purpose is pretty much the same.
> It reflects the heat rather than stops its movement into a cooler area.
> Insulation pretty much absorbs heat.
Ah, takes me back to my college physics days. The reason why insulation
and a radiant barrier are needed is because heat can be transferred in
two ways: by physical contact of one substance that is hotter than the
one next to it, or by infrared radiation. Insulation protects against
the first type of heat transfer, but like you said, unless it
incorporates a reflective barrier, which a lot of it does now, it will
absorb infrared along with the rest of the house. This is bad in both
the summer and winter. In the summer, your house, including the
insulation, absorbs infrared from the sun. Then long after the sun goes
down, your house may still be hot and sticky because it has stored all
that energy and continues to radiate it onto you. It is bad in the
winter because when it absorbs the infrared, it eventually must radiate
it away, but the radiation goes in every direction. Some goes back into
your house (good), some is radiated away (bad). When IR hits a
reflective material, it bounces off instead of being absorbed. Infrared
isn't heat, it becomes heat when it is absorbed by some material.
Infrared barriers act the same way a mirror does, which is why they are
bright and shiny. Infrared barriers are good in summer and winter
because in the winter, it reflects the infrared back into your house
heating some object that can absorb it, and in the summer, it reflects
IR from the sun instead of allowing the material under it to absorb the
IR and beam it inside.
I know that's more than anybody wanted to know, but since I spent five
years cramming on this stuff, it should be useful for something.
Prometheus says...
> Have you considered installing a fan in the wall near the peak of the
> roof, where the heat collects? If you do that, and open a window at
> your level, it should cool the place down fairly quickly and
> signifigantly. Even a good size passive vent might help quite a bit.
Most people are recommending vents and fans, but it is a cinder block
building and they would be difficult to install.
Prometheus says...
> It dropped the temperature in my old shop from scorching hot to
> whatever temperature it was outside in a matter of minutes, and it
> sounds like you have exactly the same situation in yours. IIRC, they
> had some vent fans that mounted directly to the inside of the roof
> right next to the ones mounted on the wall at the hardware store, so
> that may be easier.
If they are in the roof, what about rain? Or maybe you are talking
about a hooded vent?
D. J. MCBRIDE says...
> I believe the radiant paint is a Sherwin Williams product. And, I
> believe it is available as an interior wall paint, in colors for those
> rooms that catch a lot of sun on their exterior walls. I've heard it
> opined that if you are not going to condition the space then insulation
> is not the way to go. But, maybe that's just for high humidity locales
> like Houston.
> I'm also not a fan of blown-in cellulose insulation. I'd be afraid
> it will break down as the years go by, make dust. Not to mention the
> chemicals it's likely treated with.
Thanks. I'll look at Sherwin Williams products.
"Steve Peterson" <beaver1966@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4exwe.14757$eM6.10013@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>Does it make sense to put that much insulation in a space with two
>garage doors and nothing in the walls?
It's been my understanding that somewhere close to 80% of your
insulating value comes from adequate attic/ceiling insulation(heat
rises?). For as long as I can remember, in the Houston climate, HVAC
technicians concern themselves almost exclusively with sufficient attic
insulation; I doubt many homeowners are going to retrofit uninsulated
walls (though I have just bid a job to that very thing).
--
"New Wave" Dave In Houston
on 6/29/2005 2:44 PM Steve Peterson said the following:
> My garage (shop - don't tell SWMBO) is 24' square, and the walls are about
> 11' high, supporting a standard ^ roof, no ceiling. So it is 576 sq. ft.,
> and a lot of cubic feet. It gets morning sun, but there are trees on the
> west that start shading by midafternoon. The 11000 BTU AC can cool it down
> quickly, maybe 15 minutes, and the compressor goes off when it reaches the
> set temp. Biggest thing is it removes humidity, which is 90% today. It has
> only been in service for a week, so I don't yet know how much it costs. As
> I said, I am trying to figure out insulation.
My shop is insulated and ~ 336 sq ft. I found a one year old 8600 BTU
A/C for about $125 that I mounted thru-wall. Even though it's
insulated, the shop really can heat up if the A/C is not on and it's hot
outside. Still, I find that by flipping it on high, I can bring it down
from the low 90's to a really comfortable (relatively speaking) 75 in
about 10 minutes or so.
Nice feature on mine with the digital controls and remote is that if the
unit's off (say in the morning) and I plan to work out there when I get
home from the office, I can set the timer to kick it on in X (1-12)
hours. If I plan to spend most of the day there, when I turn it on, I
can set that same timer to turn it off in 1-12 hours.
I don't know what it will cost nor do I care. It's only going to be
running when I'm out there enjoying it so... I'd be more concerned if
it was running all the time when the shop's not in use.
I put electric heat in the shop this past winter (after 20 years of
messing with an insulated shop heated with a Kero-Sun heater or
Redi-Heater) and was able to set the thermostat to keep the shop above
freezing and then bring it up to shirtsleeve temperature when I want to
use the shop. Same thing: Uncomfortable to comfortable in about 20
minutes tops. We're total electric and I never noticed an increase in
the electric bill.
"Pat Barber" <MBOCEANSIDE@WORLDNET.ATT.NET> wrote in message
news:GMiwe.367697$cg1.35302@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> $50 a month for heating and cooling ??? They must have
> figured out a brand new way to heat water for the
> laundry or dish washer.
>
> At the VERY cheap rate of .08 per kwh, that works out
> to 625 kwh per month for heat or cooling.
>
> I don't think my home would be that low if "nobody"
> was living there.
>
> I assume these homes are NOT total electric ???
Correct. They use gas also, however we do have friends that bought one of
their homes 4 years ago and their bills reflected Ryland's claims.
"David" <David@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:wbmdnY_k0bev5VzfRVn-uQ@comcast.com...
> is that room primarily or wholly in the shade, Leon? There isn't any way
> to be comfortable in a totally uninsulated outbuilding here during the
> summer if the sun beats down on it. White roof, brown roof, purple
> roof--makes such a marginal difference if there's no insulation in the
> walls/roof. In fact I've got almost the same roof on my shed as on my
> house and the house is hotter than the shed because of all the frickin
> single pane glass that I've yet to replace. Removing a wide sliding door
> (single pane) on the south side of the house and replacing it with a 36"
> triple glazed door helped tremendously to keep that end of the house
> cooler. YMMV--and apparently it does. <g>
>
No, not in the shade at all. In fact when I painted it brown it became
slightly warmer. I went with radiant barrier because I wanted to see if it
really worked and it only cost me $24 more than standard decking. I was
really amazed at how much it helped.
I consider any $$$ on that electric bill to be money
out the door. We currently pay over $30 for various
"energy related" extras tacked on to the normal bill.
I suspose they could come up with a cooling number or
a heating number, but the total bill will vary pretty
widely from one area of the country to the next. Our
current rate of .08 kwh is about average for the country.
The impression I got from Leon's message was that the
"total" bill to be $50 per month, which I found unrealistic.
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Pat Barber" <MBOCEANSIDE@WORLDNET.ATT.NET> wrote in message
> news:GMiwe.367697$cg1.35302@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
>>$50 a month for heating and cooling ??? They must have
>>figured out a brand new way to heat water for the
>>laundry or dish washer.
>>
>> I don't think my home would be that low if "nobody" was living there.
>
>
>
> Laundry and dishwashing are not heating and cooling costs directly.
>
> The $50 sounds very cheap given today's energy, but not impossible in a well
> insulated house. I can do 2000 sq. ft. for less than $100
>
> As for the people living there, they add to the total heating, not to the
> cost.
>
> Body functions = heat
> Light bulbs = heat
> Computer = heat
> Cooking = heat
> Washing + drying clothes = heat
>
>
"Mike in Arkansas" <mike72903@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1120001723.779435.164420@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Does anyone have any actual experience with the radiant barrier paints?
> Are they as effective as aluminum barriers assuming both are applied
> against the roof decking?
>
>
I have heard that tests indicate that the paints if thoroughly applied with
no missed spots is about 75% as effective as the decking.
"D. J. MCBRIDE" <DjMcB@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:bvqwe.84711$6g3.29627@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> I believe the radiant paint is a Sherwin Williams product. And, I
> believe it is available as an interior wall paint, in colors for those
> rooms that catch a lot of sun on their exterior walls. I've heard it
> opined that if you are not going to condition the space then insulation is
> not the way to go. But, maybe that's just for high humidity locales like
> Houston.
Exactly. Inslulation does not warm or cool. It slimply slows down the
transfer of heat to a cooler spot. If you are not keeping the inside a
constant temperature there is really no reason to insulate. The reaiant
barrier however keeps the structure from absorbing heat.
> I'm also not a fan of blown-in cellulose insulation. I'd be afraid it
> will break down as the years go by, make dust. Not to mention the
> chemicals it's likely treated with.
I think the new stuff will work better. The old kind would settle and do
like you said. The new cellulose however has an additive that sorta lightly
glues it in place so that there is no settling. Ryland homes is using it
and the can demonstrate how well it works at the model home sales offices.
It really beats the pants off of the pink stuff for efficiency and sound
control.
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 13:20:00 GMT, "Steve Peterson"
<beaver1966@earthlink.net> wrote:
>I have been following this thread with interest, because I am also trying to
>cool my workshop, and provide winter heat. But just ventilation won't do
>the job; here in NC humidity is as big a problem as the heat. If I bring in
>outside air, I just bring in moisture. I put in a window AC/heat unit,
>11000 BTU, and can get a nice, comfortable temperature. Now I would like to
>add insulation to cut operating cost, but it looks like it will cost over
>$500 for insulation, which will then need to be installed just below the
>roof on stringers that are 11' high. The fiberglass insulation that comes
>24" wide is R-30. Does it make sense to put that much insulation in a space
>with two garage doors and nothing in the walls?
It's not going to hurt anything! Obviously, the best thing to do is
insulate the walls as well, but most of your heat exchange is occuring
through the roof. While I wouldn't suggest it as a new construction
technique, I redid a large apartment building with a "balloon-frame"
(there may be another term for that, but that's the handle we used)
several years ago. The *insulation* in the walls was nothing more
than the stucco, drywall, and about 12 inches of dead airspace between
them. The attic was well insulated, and the place was reasonably
energy-efficient. Not as good as some other options, but it certainly
wasn't terrible.
"Hax Planx" <mourningwood@spamcast.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d2ba71074326214989830@newsgroups.comcast.net...
> I asked about radiant barrier paint
> today at a box store and the paint guru said they had glow in the dark
> paint and fluorescent colors. I said nothing and walked away with a
> permanent loss of an IQ point.
I believe the radiant paint is a Sherwin Williams product. And, I
believe it is available as an interior wall paint, in colors for those
rooms that catch a lot of sun on their exterior walls. I've heard it
opined that if you are not going to condition the space then insulation
is not the way to go. But, maybe that's just for high humidity locales
like Houston.
I'm also not a fan of blown-in cellulose insulation. I'd be afraid
it will break down as the years go by, make dust. Not to mention the
chemicals it's likely treated with.
--
"New Wave" Dave In Houston
On 28 Jun 2005 13:13:11 -0700, "Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls@gmail.com>
wrote:
>What about a swamp cooler?
I cobbled a swamp cooler together to use in my garage here in the
Dallas area. Box fan with a mister in front of it, water feed from a 2
gal jug. Not fancy but it helps. As outside humidity rises, it becomes
much less effective, but below 40% relative humidity it drops the temp
about 15 degress if ambient temp outside is >85 degrees F. It does,
obviously, raise the humidity in the garage a bit.
Regards.
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:21:13 -0500, Hax Planx
<mourningwood@spamcast.net> wrote:
>My ancient detached shop/garage has an uninsulated roof and now that
>temps are parked in the 90's with full sunshine most days, the heat
>radiating from the roof turns it into an oven. Things inside (like
>projects) get warm to the touch and the ambient temperature soars to
>about 105°(40.6°C).
I think more attic ventilation would probably help.
Use roof vents or a powered fan in the gable end. If you have soffits
add soffit vents and if not put a passive vent in the opposite gable
end. Since it sounds like the building does not have a ceiling you
could get your lower ventilation from leaving windows open.
Mike O.
On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 05:55:51 -0000, bonomi@host122.r-bonomi.com (Robert Bonomi)
wrote:
>In article <0gf5c112g849n0v69faeb66dl896oc464s@4ax.com>,
>mac davis <mac.davis@splinters.comcast.net> wrote:
>>
><<-- sneck -->>
>>
>>Cheap portable evaporative cooler.. (only works in low humidity areas).. it's up
>>against the only window, blowing out... doubles as an air filter and picks up a
>>LOT of dust..
>
>Note: if it is blowing _out_, you're not getting *any* cooling advantage from
>it. the 'coolth' is on the side that the air blows out of.
>
it draws some of the heat, especially with the window frame and screen getting
cold and acting as a heat sink... the window is a slider that's only about 1/3
as high as the cooler vents..
it's mostly used for dust in the air, though.. it's a portable one with a cloth
belt that wicks water up through the pan and blows air through it, so it does a
pretty good job on dust..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
"Leon" wrote in message ...
>
> "David" wrote in message
> No, not in the shade at all. In fact when I painted it brown it became
> slightly warmer. I went with radiant barrier because I wanted to see if
it
> really worked and it only cost me $24 more than standard decking. I was
> really amazed at how much it helped.
It _is_ amazing how proper construction methods can keep temperatures down
inside a structure.
I just walked in from checking the gas furnace line installation in the
attic of a new house built with radiant barrier roof decking and ridge
venting ... it was no hotter in that attic than it is outside today in
Houston.
As you well appreciate, being in an attic in Houston at 11 AM on a sunny
June day can be a scorching experience in the older houses. AAMOF, the
shingles on this one were already too hot to install the HVAC roof vents ...
I like to have that done at first light, before the sun get overhead, to
keep from damaging the shingles.
Now, if I ever get the time to build that new $hop ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/14/05
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 14:38:43 -0700, Tim Douglass <tdouglass@bendcable.com>
wrote:
>On 28 Jun 2005 13:13:11 -0700, "Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>What about a swamp cooler?
>
>I dislike the idea of a swamp cooler for a shop, just because it adds
>so much humidity. I *like* living in a dry climate - I haven't had to
>worry about rust on my tools for years.
>
>I vote for ventilation as the best way to control the heat on a short
>term basis. A 1500 cfm hooded roof fan cost only about $100 IIRC. I'm
>looking at putting one in my garashop soon.
I use a swamp cooler, but it blows out the window...
it draws a little heat out of the shop, but mostly (if I clean the filter
regularly) helps the DC keep the dust down..
I just ordered a solar powered roof vent and that should help quite a bit,
especially in the evenings, to get the stagnant heat out of the shop..
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
In a word, NO! Been there, done that. I had a shed that was hotter
than a firecracker when the sun came out. I painted the roof stark
white and put a thin layer of insulation on the inside of the roof. The
temperature drop was nearly unnoticeable. Years later I tore the shed
down and built my own. fiberglass shingle roof, 2 small gable vents,
thicker insulation AND I insulated the walls that were exposed to the
sun. Now on a HOT, HOT day I can walk into that shed and be greeted by
coolness akin to walking under a large shade tree.
If you don't insulate where the heat load is coming from you can forget
about cooling your shop. Of course the dark roof is much of the
problem, but the larger problem is lack of insulation.
Dave
Hax Planx wrote:
> My ancient detached shop/garage has an uninsulated roof and now that
> temps are parked in the 90's with full sunshine most days, the heat
> radiating from the roof turns it into an oven. Things inside (like
> projects) get warm to the touch and the ambient temperature soars to
> about 105°(40.6°C). I've had to move all glues and solvents and
> anything else that might be temperature sensitive into the house. As
> you can imagine, it makes things like brushing shellac difficult. Any
> ideas for a cheap remedy just for the radiating heat problem? I know I
> could insulate the roof, but that isn't the direction I want to go with
> this space. Before winter sets in, I want to frame about half of the
> inside of the building into a room for the wood shop and insulate that,
> but I didn't want to do it now. The building is about a 1000 sq/ft and
> the roof is over 12' high at the peak, so that isn't very practical
> anyway. I was thinking along the lines of maybe using a reflective
> coating for the roof or tacking down tarps to cut down on the heat
> absorbing properties of the black shingles. Does this sound practical
> at all?
"Hax Planx" <mourningwood@spamcast.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d2b34f03bfffa79989828@newsgroups.comcast.net...
Snip
I was thinking along the lines of maybe using a reflective
> coating for the roof or tacking down tarps to cut down on the heat
> absorbing properties of the black shingles. Does this sound practical
> at all?
Well I am going to differ from David's view. I live in Houston. Last
year I built a storage room in my back yard with no insulation. I used
Radiant barrier decking for the roof and went with 30# felt and a premium
asphalt shingle on top of that.
The room stays closed up all day long and the inside temperature never feels
higher than the out side temperature. 2 weeks ago I painted the out side a
medium brown color and the inside temperature rose slightly.
While it may not be feasible to re roof your building and put down radiant
barrier decking there is radiant barrier paint that can be sprayed up on the
bottom of the roof. They may help and be relatively inexpensive.
Keep in mind also that insulation does not warm or cool a building it simply
slows the temperature movement going from a warmer area to a cooler area.
If the building does not cool down at night insulation is probably not going
to help. IMHO the trick here is to reflect the heat with the proper
materials.
Oddly the radiant barrier products face towards the inside of the building.
the metallic surface on the decking faced down and the radiant barrier paint
is applied on the same surface facing down.
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 18:11:23 -0500, the opaque Hax Planx
<mourningwood@spamcast.net> spake:
>Robert Bonomi says...
>
>> 1) a large 'barn fan'. venting to the outside. this will help pull the
>> 'inside' temperature down to 'approximately' what it is outside.
>>
>> 2) "water the roof". Intermittantly -- just enough to dampen it, and let
>> it evaporate off. As long as the ambient humidity isn't excessive,
>> your water costs are reasonable, and you don't have excessive amounts
>> of minerals in the water, this can be suprisingly effective. If tap
>> water quality is suspect, or expensive, build a cistern to capture
>> the rainwater from the roof, and 'recycle' it. :)
>
>Water is an interesting idea. I'll have to try that.
Put a small sprinkler up there and plumb it indoors so you can turn
it on and off at will.
- This product cruelly tested on defenseless furry animals -
--------------------------------------------------------
http://diversify.com Web App & Database Programming
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 10:21:13 -0500, Hax Planx
<mourningwood@spamcast.net> wrote:
> Any
>ideas for a cheap remedy just for the radiating heat problem? I know I
>could insulate the roof, but that isn't the direction I want to go with
>this space.
Have you considered installing a fan in the wall near the peak of the
roof, where the heat collects? If you do that, and open a window at
your level, it should cool the place down fairly quickly and
signifigantly. Even a good size passive vent might help quite a bit.
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:55:51 -0500, Hax Planx
<mourningwood@spamcast.net> wrote:
>Prometheus says...
>
>> It dropped the temperature in my old shop from scorching hot to
>> whatever temperature it was outside in a matter of minutes, and it
>> sounds like you have exactly the same situation in yours. IIRC, they
>> had some vent fans that mounted directly to the inside of the roof
>> right next to the ones mounted on the wall at the hardware store, so
>> that may be easier.
>
>If they are in the roof, what about rain? Or maybe you are talking
>about a hooded vent?
IIRC, (and it was a couple of years ago) they were hooded. I believe
there were some louvered vents as well, but I don't know if I'd trust
those in a roof, especially after they've been in there for a couple
of years.
"David" <David@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:KPmdnW0wWNFhCFzfRVn-2Q@comcast.com...
> Are we really arguing?? :) Isn't a radiant barrier a form of insulation?
No, not really by definition, although its purpose is pretty much the same.
It reflects the heat rather than stops its movement into a cooler area.
Insulation pretty much absorbs heat.
Spray isocythene insulation would be a solution. Also something like
the foil/bubble/bubble/foil insulation would be easy to install (just
need a staple gun and the time) and I did that a couple years ago on
a addition (quasi-garage) we built with BOTH the
foil/bubble/bubble/file AND fiberglass bats in the wall studs, and it
is noticeably cooler in there than outside util be open up the garage
doors at both ends, then it equilabrates to the outside temp
I totally agree, without adding insulation/radiant barriers, you are
not going to accomplish any significant temp reductions
John
On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:58:05 GMT, "Leon"
<removespamlcb11211@swbell.net> wrote:
>
>"Hax Planx" <mourningwood@spamcast.net> wrote in message
>news:MPG.1d2b34f03bfffa79989828@newsgroups.comcast.net...
>
>Snip
> I was thinking along the lines of maybe using a reflective
>> coating for the roof or tacking down tarps to cut down on the heat
>> absorbing properties of the black shingles. Does this sound practical
>> at all?
>
>Well I am going to differ from David's view. I live in Houston. Last
>year I built a storage room in my back yard with no insulation. I used
>Radiant barrier decking for the roof and went with 30# felt and a premium
>asphalt shingle on top of that.
>The room stays closed up all day long and the inside temperature never feels
>higher than the out side temperature. 2 weeks ago I painted the out side a
>medium brown color and the inside temperature rose slightly.
>While it may not be feasible to re roof your building and put down radiant
>barrier decking there is radiant barrier paint that can be sprayed up on the
>bottom of the roof. They may help and be relatively inexpensive.
>Keep in mind also that insulation does not warm or cool a building it simply
>slows the temperature movement going from a warmer area to a cooler area.
>If the building does not cool down at night insulation is probably not going
>to help. IMHO the trick here is to reflect the heat with the proper
>materials.
>
>Oddly the radiant barrier products face towards the inside of the building.
>the metallic surface on the decking faced down and the radiant barrier paint
>is applied on the same surface facing down.
>
On 28 Jun 2005 13:13:11 -0700, "Dhakala" <NoPoliticalCalls@gmail.com>
wrote:
>What about a swamp cooler?
I dislike the idea of a swamp cooler for a shop, just because it adds
so much humidity. I *like* living in a dry climate - I haven't had to
worry about rust on my tools for years.
I vote for ventilation as the best way to control the heat on a short
term basis. A 1500 cfm hooded roof fan cost only about $100 IIRC. I'm
looking at putting one in my garashop soon.
--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
is that room primarily or wholly in the shade, Leon? There isn't any
way to be comfortable in a totally uninsulated outbuilding here during
the summer if the sun beats down on it. White roof, brown roof, purple
roof--makes such a marginal difference if there's no insulation in the
walls/roof. In fact I've got almost the same roof on my shed as on my
house and the house is hotter than the shed because of all the frickin
single pane glass that I've yet to replace. Removing a wide sliding
door (single pane) on the south side of the house and replacing it with
a 36" triple glazed door helped tremendously to keep that end of the
house cooler. YMMV--and apparently it does. <g>
Dave
Leon wrote:
> "Hax Planx" <mourningwood@spamcast.net> wrote in message
> news:MPG.1d2b34f03bfffa79989828@newsgroups.comcast.net...
>
> Snip
> I was thinking along the lines of maybe using a reflective
>
>>coating for the roof or tacking down tarps to cut down on the heat
>>absorbing properties of the black shingles. Does this sound practical
>>at all?
>
>
> Well I am going to differ from David's view. I live in Houston. Last
> year I built a storage room in my back yard with no insulation. I used
> Radiant barrier decking for the roof and went with 30# felt and a premium
> asphalt shingle on top of that.
> The room stays closed up all day long and the inside temperature never feels
> higher than the out side temperature. 2 weeks ago I painted the out side a
> medium brown color and the inside temperature rose slightly.
> While it may not be feasible to re roof your building and put down radiant
> barrier decking there is radiant barrier paint that can be sprayed up on the
> bottom of the roof. They may help and be relatively inexpensive.
> Keep in mind also that insulation does not warm or cool a building it simply
> slows the temperature movement going from a warmer area to a cooler area.
> If the building does not cool down at night insulation is probably not going
> to help. IMHO the trick here is to reflect the heat with the proper
> materials.
>
> Oddly the radiant barrier products face towards the inside of the building.
> the metallic surface on the decking faced down and the radiant barrier paint
> is applied on the same surface facing down.
>
>
Hax Planx wrote:
> My ancient detached shop/garage has an uninsulated roof and now that
> temps are parked in the 90's with full sunshine most days, the heat
> radiating from the roof turns it into an oven. Things inside (like
> projects) get warm to the touch and the ambient temperature soars to
> about 105°(40.6°C). I've had to move all glues and solvents and
> anything else that might be temperature sensitive into the house. As
> you can imagine, it makes things like brushing shellac difficult. Any
> ideas for a cheap remedy just for the radiating heat problem? I know I
> could insulate the roof, but that isn't the direction I want to go with
> this space. Before winter sets in, I want to frame about half of the
> inside of the building into a room for the wood shop and insulate that,
> but I didn't want to do it now. The building is about a 1000 sq/ft and
> the roof is over 12' high at the peak, so that isn't very practical
> anyway. I was thinking along the lines of maybe using a reflective
> coating for the roof or tacking down tarps to cut down on the heat
> absorbing properties of the black shingles. Does this sound practical
> at all?
I'd start with a gable mounted vent fan.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
no-SPAM-vasys@adelphia.net
(Remove -SPAM- to send email)