On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:50:57 GMT, patriarch
<<patriarch>[email protected]> wrote:
>Andy Dingley <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> I could quite fancy a Shopsmith for some chairmaking jobs (mainly
>> drilling) but I sure wouldn't pay real money for one.
>>
>> Why is it that most of the US combi-machines I've seen have been like
>> Shopsmith - basically a lathe headstock on a stick, whereas all the
>> European combis are a jointer / tablesaw with protruding attachments
>> that look like they ought to have Goldfinger tying James Bond to them.
>
>Think of the Shopsmith as a small leatherman multi-tool, like we used to be
>able to carry on a keychain, until three years ago. It appeals to the
>small shop, primarily hobby/homeowner types.
>
>I bought one, used it a while, and then bought better, less expensive
>dedicated tools when I started making larger, more accurate pieces. Mine
>is stored in my dad's garage, but I've been thinking of retrieving it,
>particularly for the sander and lathe functions. The table saw is roughly
>equivalent to the $99 Delta in function and accuracy.
>
>The add-ons are horribly expensive, and add no particular value that I can
>see.
>
>The ability to use it for horizontal boring could make it useful for
>chairmaking, if you wanted round tenons.
>
>Patriarch
with the 1/2" router chuck, it's also a workhorse in the shop...
Saw this on the site. Think it may bear on the discussion?
Reason #7
The quality you look for in all your important "Investments"
That's right. You should look at the Shopsmith MARK V as an investment in
the quality of your life. It's been built for you in the good old USA with
painstaking care and attention-to-detail.
"Robert Bonomi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, toller <[email protected]>
wrote:
> >> Usually the bandsaw attached and is driven by the shopsmith head
> >> piece.... I'm not real crazy about that idea..
> >
> >Yeh, that is all I saw on the webpage; but the auction has an identical
> >independent bandsaw and also an independent jointer that is identical to
> >their system tools.
>
> It *is* the system tool. With a stand-alone base, and a separate power
unit.
>
> That stand-alone 4"(!!) jointer costs about $1k, at list.
>
> nearly $500 for the jointer 'head'
> Something like $299 for the stand.
> and around $200 for the power unit (motor).
>
> *ouch*!
>
>
On 18 Oct 2004 16:00:49 -0700, [email protected] (David Hall)
wrote:
>"Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<TKTcd.323$%[email protected]>...
>> "RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:SjQcd.5590$EZ.337@okepread07...
>> > I
>> > haven't had opportunity to really look at the newer ones but they used to
>> be
>> > a pretty high quality machine.
>>
>> I saw a demo in Home depot of a multi-function machine with the name
>> Shopsmith on it. I think it was priced under $500. It looked to be about
>> the same quality as the $99 Delta table saw - pretty crappy and lightweight.
>>
>> Bob
>
>As far as I know (and I have owned a Shopsmith and been active in a
>Shopsmith users group for 5 years or so now)the only multi-function
>tool Shopsmith has made during the time Home Depot has existed is the
>Mark V (models 500, 510 and 520). You haven't seen one of these new
>priced at $500 ;) For the last year or two Shopsmith has moved their
>primary sales demonstrations to Lowes (from previously doing them at
>malls, etc.). If you saw one at Lowes, the entry level set-up was
>about $2,000. It would beat the crap out of a $99 Delta tablesaw and
>the tablesaw is its weakest function by far. They are not for everyone
>and they are not a substitute for high end stand-alone tools, but they
>are well made and, with the care you should show any $2,000 tool, they
>will last for generations. I know of a number of early 1950s models
>that have been continually well used since being purchased and are
>still running great and being supported by the company. Also, while
>Shopsmith's prices show that they are VERY "proud" of their equipment,
>their customer service rates up there with Lee Valley (who are also
>rightfully "proud" of their products).
>
>Dave Hall
I have to agree, Dave... I'm on my 2nd shopsmith since 1972 (lost the
1st one in a divorce) and they are a very well built machine..
I never use mine for a saw anymore, pretty much as a drill
press/router and lathe, but before I had the CMS and RAS it was pretty
much my whole shop...
I do have to admit that for small work, the combo of tilting table,
miter fence and precise adjustments with the quill sure make compound
miters nice...
Shop Smith realizes that some people subscribe to the Brand Loyalty game.
"toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am going to an auction that has a bunch of shopsmith tools, so I looked
> through their website.
>
> They get $500 for a 1/2hp DC and $500 for an 11" band saw. Neither is
> part
> of their "system".
>
> Seems about 3x market, or am I confused.
>
>
"Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<TKTcd.323$%[email protected]>...
> "RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:SjQcd.5590$EZ.337@okepread07...
> > I
> > haven't had opportunity to really look at the newer ones but they used to
> be
> > a pretty high quality machine.
>
> I saw a demo in Home depot of a multi-function machine with the name
> Shopsmith on it. I think it was priced under $500. It looked to be about
> the same quality as the $99 Delta table saw - pretty crappy and lightweight.
>
> Bob
As far as I know (and I have owned a Shopsmith and been active in a
Shopsmith users group for 5 years or so now)the only multi-function
tool Shopsmith has made during the time Home Depot has existed is the
Mark V (models 500, 510 and 520). You haven't seen one of these new
priced at $500 ;) For the last year or two Shopsmith has moved their
primary sales demonstrations to Lowes (from previously doing them at
malls, etc.). If you saw one at Lowes, the entry level set-up was
about $2,000. It would beat the crap out of a $99 Delta tablesaw and
the tablesaw is its weakest function by far. They are not for everyone
and they are not a substitute for high end stand-alone tools, but they
are well made and, with the care you should show any $2,000 tool, they
will last for generations. I know of a number of early 1950s models
that have been continually well used since being purchased and are
still running great and being supported by the company. Also, while
Shopsmith's prices show that they are VERY "proud" of their equipment,
their customer service rates up there with Lee Valley (who are also
rightfully "proud" of their products).
Dave Hall
patriarch <<patriarch>[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm keeping the Shopsmith around because it's paid for, and I'm
> thinking I'd like to try turning a little bit, without dropping
> another grand. It's not the world's best lathe, but then, I'm not the
> world's best woodworker, either. I may not even be the best on my
> block. ;-)
>
> Of course, YMMV.
>
>
Check your elbow height with the quill (head down). The difference is how
much you'll have to raise the SS or lower yourself to avoid crippling your
back while trying to use it as a lathe. I'm 5'6" and it was bad enough for
me that SWMBO took to calling me Quasimodo after I'd spent a few hours
turning on it. Other than that and the limited slow speed, it is pretty
decent as a lathe.
YMMV.
LD
Andy Dingley <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:24:58 GMT, "toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I am going to an auction that has a bunch of shopsmith tools,
>
> I could quite fancy a Shopsmith for some chairmaking jobs (mainly
> drilling) but I sure wouldn't pay real money for one.
>
> Why is it that most of the US combi-machines I've seen have been like
> Shopsmith - basically a lathe headstock on a stick, whereas all the
> European combis are a jointer / tablesaw with protruding attachments
> that look like they ought to have Goldfinger tying James Bond to them.
You can park a Shopsmith in the space of a bicycle and, contrary to popular
opinion, we don't all have gobs of extra space.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Shop Smith realizes that some people subscribe to the Brand Loyalty game.
No doubt about the brand loyalty reasoning. Also, if you take a good look
at a machine they are fairly complicated with their speed controls, mulitple
tables, power outputs, etc. they probably cost a little more to produce. I
haven't had opportunity to really look at the newer ones but they used to be
a pretty high quality machine.
"RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:SjQcd.5590$EZ.337@okepread07...
> I
> haven't had opportunity to really look at the newer ones but they used to
be
> a pretty high quality machine.
I saw a demo in Home depot of a multi-function machine with the name
Shopsmith on it. I think it was priced under $500. It looked to be about
the same quality as the $99 Delta table saw - pretty crappy and lightweight.
Bob
>I saw a demo in Home depot of a multi-function machine with the name
>Shopsmith on it. I think it was priced under $500. It looked to be about
>the same quality as the $99 Delta table saw - pretty crappy and lightweight.
>
>Bob
I can't comment with Shopmiths as a whole, but I did end up with a '90s table
saw attachment for one a couple years ago. I think you're right about quality.
Looked like something you find off a $200 portable saw.
GTO(John)
[email protected] (GTO69RA4) wrote:
>>I saw a demo in Home depot of a multi-function machine with the name
>>Shopsmith on it. I think it was priced under $500. It looked to be
>>about the same quality as the $99 Delta table saw - pretty crappy and
>>lightweight.
>>
>>Bob
>
>
> I can't comment with Shopmiths as a whole, but I did end up with a
> '90s table saw attachment for one a couple years ago. I think you're
> right about quality. Looked like something you find off a $200
> portable saw.
>
> GTO(John)
>
I don't think you guys were looking at Shopsmiths. Here's their site:
http://www.shopsmith.com/
They may have flaws, but they are not lightweight, not priced under $500,
and the table saw is part of the package.
LD
Andy Dingley <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I could quite fancy a Shopsmith for some chairmaking jobs (mainly
> drilling) but I sure wouldn't pay real money for one.
>
> Why is it that most of the US combi-machines I've seen have been like
> Shopsmith - basically a lathe headstock on a stick, whereas all the
> European combis are a jointer / tablesaw with protruding attachments
> that look like they ought to have Goldfinger tying James Bond to them.
Think of the Shopsmith as a small leatherman multi-tool, like we used to be
able to carry on a keychain, until three years ago. It appeals to the
small shop, primarily hobby/homeowner types.
I bought one, used it a while, and then bought better, less expensive
dedicated tools when I started making larger, more accurate pieces. Mine
is stored in my dad's garage, but I've been thinking of retrieving it,
particularly for the sander and lathe functions. The table saw is roughly
equivalent to the $99 Delta in function and accuracy.
The add-ons are horribly expensive, and add no particular value that I can
see.
The ability to use it for horizontal boring could make it useful for
chairmaking, if you wanted round tenons.
Patriarch
mac davis <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<snip>
>
> with the 1/2" router chuck, it's also a workhorse in the shop...
>
Yeah, but don't go mistaking this for a real router. Nasty things can, and
sometimes do, happen.
Patriarch
mac davis <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 03:05:06 GMT, patriarch
> <<patriarch>[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>mac davis <[email protected]> wrote in
>>news:[email protected]:
>>
>><snip>
>>>
>>> with the 1/2" router chuck, it's also a workhorse in the shop...
>>>
>>
>>Yeah, but don't go mistaking this for a real router. Nasty things
>>can, and sometimes do, happen.
>>
>>Patriarch
>
> ok.. now you've got me worried... what kind of nasty things??
>
> I'm trying to follow a dual path: learning more wood working and
> keeping all of my body parts intact..
>
>
One of the problems I had was using the quill to get the depth right,
particularly as it was an overhead configuration. Fine adjustment was next
to impossible.
Another had to do with the (relatively) slow speed of the bit. I had
problems because the bit wasn't spinning fast enough to cut efficiently,
and things tended to grab. The larger the bit, the bigger the problem.
But a 3/4" straight cutter shouldn't have been a problem.
The experience was _much_ more akin to trying to route with a drill press,
in general a bad idea. But the Shopsmith was never designed to spin a bit
at 20,000 rpm.
I solved the problem, as I have many problems, with a credit card. A new
3.25 hp router, bolted to the bottom of a slab of melamine, and a simple
fence, all clamped to a pair of sawhorses, was _much_ safer, and much more
effective.
One of the lessons I learned from all of this was that you can use a chisel
as a screwdriver, but it makes a poor hammer. Or something like that.
I'm keeping the Shopsmith around because it's paid for, and I'm thinking
I'd like to try turning a little bit, without dropping another grand. It's
not the world's best lathe, but then, I'm not the world's best woodworker,
either. I may not even be the best on my block. ;-)
Of course, YMMV.
Patriarch
In article <[email protected]>, toller <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Usually the bandsaw attached and is driven by the shopsmith head
>> piece.... I'm not real crazy about that idea..
>
>Yeh, that is all I saw on the webpage; but the auction has an identical
>independent bandsaw and also an independent jointer that is identical to
>their system tools.
It *is* the system tool. With a stand-alone base, and a separate power unit.
That stand-alone 4"(!!) jointer costs about $1k, at list.
nearly $500 for the jointer 'head'
Something like $299 for the stand.
and around $200 for the power unit (motor).
*ouch*!
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:15:15 GMT, "Bob" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:SjQcd.5590$EZ.337@okepread07...
>> I
>> haven't had opportunity to really look at the newer ones but they used to
>be
>> a pretty high quality machine.
>
>I saw a demo in Home depot of a multi-function machine with the name
>Shopsmith on it. I think it was priced under $500. It looked to be about
>the same quality as the $99 Delta table saw - pretty crappy and lightweight.
>
>Bob
>
sure it was a ShopSmith?
there are a lot of look-alike multi-purpose tools out there that are
"shop work", "work smith" etc...
On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 04:46:27 GMT, patriarch
<<patriarch>[email protected]> wrote:
>>>Yeah, but don't go mistaking this for a real router. Nasty things
>>>can, and sometimes do, happen.
>>>
>>>Patriarch
>>
>> ok.. now you've got me worried... what kind of nasty things??
>>
>> I'm trying to follow a dual path: learning more wood working and
>> keeping all of my body parts intact..
>>
>>
>
>One of the problems I had was using the quill to get the depth right,
>particularly as it was an overhead configuration. Fine adjustment was next
>to impossible.
>
>Another had to do with the (relatively) slow speed of the bit. I had
>problems because the bit wasn't spinning fast enough to cut efficiently,
>and things tended to grab. The larger the bit, the bigger the problem.
>But a 3/4" straight cutter shouldn't have been a problem.
>
>The experience was _much_ more akin to trying to route with a drill press,
>in general a bad idea. But the Shopsmith was never designed to spin a bit
>at 20,000 rpm.
>
>I solved the problem, as I have many problems, with a credit card. A new
>3.25 hp router, bolted to the bottom of a slab of melamine, and a simple
>fence, all clamped to a pair of sawhorses, was _much_ safer, and much more
>effective.
>
>One of the lessons I learned from all of this was that you can use a chisel
>as a screwdriver, but it makes a poor hammer. Or something like that.
>
>I'm keeping the Shopsmith around because it's paid for, and I'm thinking
>I'd like to try turning a little bit, without dropping another grand. It's
>not the world's best lathe, but then, I'm not the world's best woodworker,
>either. I may not even be the best on my block. ;-)
>
>Of course, YMMV.
>
>Patriarch
Actually, the main thing that I've been using it for (when used as a
router) is with a 3/4 straight carbide bit, doing dado's and rabbits
on drawers and stuff... seems to work very well at the "rout/shape
speed and give a very clean cut...
If it's down on "saw/joint" or below, it tends to tug and rattle and
the cut is not clean..
I've learned not to use it as a corner or edge router, unless I'm
using boards that aren't warped or odd sized... not having a thickness
planer (yet) I've found that routing with the bit over the table
results in uneven patterns, as opposed to the bit under the table in
my router table..
I don't think that was very well said.. *g*
An example was my 1st set of drawer faces... I sanded most of the warp
out of the blanks that I'd cut but gentle application on the belt
sander, but the problem was that in this process, some of the faces
were thinner then the others..
The difference wasn't that obvious until I ran them through the SS
with a 3/8" rounding bit along the edges...
Some edges came out nicely rounded with a crisp line at the top, some
were just rounded with no line, and the rest had a mixture of the 2..
really ugly and a lesson well learned..
I've had one for over 50 years and it is still going strong. The main
advantage is one motor vs many plus the space problem. If you have a small
area or a garage, they can roll out of the way and the accessories can hang
on a wall. I'm lucky that I have the whole basement, but if I ever downsize,
the Shopsmith will be the tool to go with me. Go to one of the
demonstrations that they have occasionally at malls. Their web site will
have the dates and where.
"toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am going to an auction that has a bunch of shopsmith tools, so I looked
> through their website.
>
> They get $500 for a 1/2hp DC and $500 for an 11" band saw. Neither is
part
> of their "system".
>
> Seems about 3x market, or am I confused.
>
>
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:24:58 GMT, "toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I am going to an auction that has a bunch of shopsmith tools, so I looked
>through their website.
>
>They get $500 for a 1/2hp DC and $500 for an 11" band saw. Neither is part
>of their "system".
>
>Seems about 3x market, or am I confused.
>
I can only comment about the accessories that I have... router check,
most of the sanding stuff, etc., etc....
It's very good, heavy stuff, most of which has lasted since I got it
in 1982...
If you check out Ebay, you'll see that SS stuff goes there for close
to retail... I got outbid on 3 SS biscuit jointer kits because I
wouldn't go over $115 for what shopsmith sells for $136.50...
Usually the bandsaw attached and is driven by the shopsmith head
piece.... I'm not real crazy about that idea..
Mon, Oct 18, 2004, 2:52pm (EDT+4) [email protected] (mac=A0davis)
says:
<snip> Usually the bandsaw attached and is driven by the shopsmith head
piece.... I'm not real crazy about that idea..
I had that type bandsaw, when I had one, worked great. I had the
jointer too, same hookup, it worked great too. Just a bit of a PITA
swapping back and forth. But, for a very limited shop space, I don't
think you could beat having a Shopsmith.
Except for the minor PITA of swapping back and forth, I was very
happy with my Shopsmith. But, some people don't mind that. It is quick
to do, and was accurate. When I sold it, even got a vew more $ than I
paid for it (used). The extra $ was probably because I'd painted it
bright yellow.
JOAT
Flush the Johns.
- seen on a bumper sticker
On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:11:58 -0400, [email protected] (J T)
wrote:
>Mon, Oct 18, 2004, 2:52pm (EDT+4) [email protected] (mac davis)
>says:
><snip> Usually the bandsaw attached and is driven by the shopsmith head
>piece.... I'm not real crazy about that idea..
>
> I had that type bandsaw, when I had one, worked great. I had the
>jointer too, same hookup, it worked great too. Just a bit of a PITA
>swapping back and forth. But, for a very limited shop space, I don't
>think you could beat having a Shopsmith.
>
> Except for the minor PITA of swapping back and forth, I was very
>happy with my Shopsmith. But, some people don't mind that. It is quick
>to do, and was accurate. When I sold it, even got a vew more $ than I
>paid for it (used). The extra $ was probably because I'd painted it
>bright yellow.
>
>
>
>JOAT
>Flush the Johns.
>- seen on a bumper sticker
yeah.. thinking back now, the ShopSmith got me a lot more organized in
my projects... you tend to cut all the parts, then do the
routing/drilling, etc.. so you aren't changing configurations more
than you have to..
[email protected] (J T) wrote in news:28113-4175129E-135@storefull-
3152.bay.webtv.net:
<snip>
> Except for the minor PITA of swapping back and forth, I was very
> happy with my Shopsmith. But, some people don't mind that. It is quick
> to do, and was accurate. When I sold it, even got a vew more $ than I
> paid for it (used). The extra $ was probably because I'd painted it
> bright yellow.
>
With collectibles, it's all about the provenance. The yellow just went to
verify that _this_ machine had been used in the shop by the woodworking
gods' current earthly representative.
I can just imagine: Antiques Roadshow, circa 2030....
Patriarch
Tue, Oct 19, 2004, 2:58pm (EDT+4) patriarch
([email protected]:
With collectibles, it's all about the provenance. The yellow just went
to verify that _this_ machine had been used in the shop by the
woodworking gods' current earthly representative.
I can just imagine: Antiques Roadshow, circa 2030....
Yer right, I shoulda autographed it too.
JOAT
Eagles can soar ... but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:24:58 GMT, "toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I am going to an auction that has a bunch of shopsmith tools,
I could quite fancy a Shopsmith for some chairmaking jobs (mainly
drilling) but I sure wouldn't pay real money for one.
Why is it that most of the US combi-machines I've seen have been like
Shopsmith - basically a lathe headstock on a stick, whereas all the
European combis are a jointer / tablesaw with protruding attachments
that look like they ought to have Goldfinger tying James Bond to them.
--
Smert' spamionam
On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:37:38 -0400, "Charles Callaghan"
<[email protected]> wrote:
I don't know if you've moved much in those 50 years, but I've moved
several times since I got the ShopSmith and it sure is easy to move!
(slide head stock to one end, put other end on truck, slide to other
end and lift on truck)
>I've had one for over 50 years and it is still going strong. The main
>advantage is one motor vs many plus the space problem. If you have a small
>area or a garage, they can roll out of the way and the accessories can hang
>on a wall. I'm lucky that I have the whole basement, but if I ever downsize,
>the Shopsmith will be the tool to go with me. Go to one of the
>demonstrations that they have occasionally at malls. Their web site will
>have the dates and where.
>
>
>"toller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I am going to an auction that has a bunch of shopsmith tools, so I looked
>> through their website.
>>
>> They get $500 for a 1/2hp DC and $500 for an 11" band saw. Neither is
>part
>> of their "system".
>>
>> Seems about 3x market, or am I confused.
>>
>>
>
On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 03:05:06 GMT, patriarch
<<patriarch>[email protected]> wrote:
>mac davis <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
><snip>
>>
>> with the 1/2" router chuck, it's also a workhorse in the shop...
>>
>
>Yeah, but don't go mistaking this for a real router. Nasty things can, and
>sometimes do, happen.
>
>Patriarch
ok.. now you've got me worried... what kind of nasty things??
I'm trying to follow a dual path: learning more wood working and
keeping all of my body parts intact..