that's 2 votes for the Makita.
Thompson Family wrote:
> "Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Bay Area Dave wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I stand by the statement that the slider is less accurate. Read up on
>>>them. I don't really care how YOU 'feel' about yours, I've observed
>>>them and wouldn't buy one for precision work. Would I buy one if I was
>>>a contractor framing a house. Yeah!
>>
>>Gee, I put together a number of 12 segment rings that went together
>
> without the
>
>>need to sand to fit. The segments were cut on a Makita LS1013 slider. I
>
> guess 24
>
>>cuts at 15 degrees each, with practically 0 degree combined error, isn't
>
> precision
>
>>work.
>>
>>--
>>Jack Novak
>>Buffalo, NY - USA
>>(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
>>
>>
>
> I have a Makita LS1013 also, great saw i can't imagine doing alot of
> projects without it anymore. as far as accuricy goes i am amazed at how well
> it does with trim work.
>
>
actually you're supposed to pull the head out before beginning the cut, and
push the blade as you make the cut. on a radial arm saw you pull it through
as you make the cut. If you pull the blade through the cut on a sliding
miter saw, you're asking for the workpiece to be thrown at you. On a SCMS
the blade is spinning upwards closest to the operator, whereas on a RAS it
is spinning downwards at this point. It's a big difference and shouldn't be
mixed up.
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> PeterM wrote:
>
> > Thanks Swingman........It has a 12" saw blade. It will not move as I'm
> > cutting right? I just pull it out before I cut, and that then it will
> > let me cut like the 12". Is that correct? Don't laugh, I'm not
> > experienced with this. How does the price sound?.....Peter
>
> You start the cut with the head pushed to the back of the saw and pull the
> head through the cut.
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
> (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
>
>
You're right - I'm not sure what I was thinking. I was trying to visualize
the difference in my mind, and didn't think it through too well.
I do know that there is a risk of kickback from the SCMS if you pull it
through a cut, vs. push it through the cut. This isn't true of the RAS.
--
There are no stupid questions.
There are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.
"Jim Wilson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike in Mystic wrote...
> > On a SCMS
> > the blade is spinning upwards closest to the operator
>
> Whaaat??! Not on mine, it doesn't, nor on any I've ever seen. I wouldn't
> buy a miter saw that kicked the dust straight from the kerf into my
> face... BTW, I have a DW708. What do you have?
>
> Jim
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I use the fence with a 1" aux fence to set the length. when the board
> is cut, it is not in contact with either fence. that would be stupid.
> the aux fence is short and is placed towards the operator's end of the
> main fence. slide the work piece across the sled, up against the aux
> fence. move forward and then you clear the aux fence before the blade
> contacts the workplace. very elegant. quick. super accurate.
>
> what I originally mentioned in this thread (to paraphrase myself) is
> that a non slider is more accurate than a slider, but not accurate
> enough for my tastes, except for less demanding work.
>
<SNIP>
OK, I understand now. At first I thought that you were using a crosscut
sled with a stop block and didn't understand where the fence came in.
Bob McBreen
PeterM wrote:
> Thanks Swingman........It has a 12" saw blade. It will not move as I'm
> cutting right? I just pull it out before I cut, and that then it will
> let me cut like the 12". Is that correct? Don't laugh, I'm not
> experienced with this. How does the price sound?.....Peter
You start the cut with the head pushed to the back of the saw and pull the
head through the cut.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
PeterM wrote:
> Thanks Nova, wow, I had no idea that this was the way to do it. Now I
> know............ Can you tell me if you think the price is OK......Peter
The current price for a new DeWalt DW708 12" sliding miter saw is $600
(without the stand). Provided there is nothing wrong with the saw, $350
with a stand is a VERY good price. The DW708 is an excellent miter saw.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
PeterM wrote:
> Now I'm confused, are you saying the sliding one is not as accurate?
> Then I won't buy it.......Peter
You got to keep in mind Dave's the type of guy that forgets little details,
like remembering to put bottoms in the drawers he makes.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Tom Kohlman wrote:
> Not ever using one, I didn't realize the slider worked like a RAS with a
> "pull" across the piece which has the tendency to pull it away from the
> fence. Non-slider comes down on the piece and with the rotation of the blade
> has a tendency to push the piece back against the fence. I had a RAS as my
> main tool for years (loved it) but it was not super accurate on cross-cuts
> for that reason.
You made me pull out the manual for my saw. I've been pulling the blade through
the cut since I had the saw. The manual tells me I've been doing it wrong. You
are correct the proper way is to push the saw through the cut.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Bay Area Dave wrote:
> I stand by the statement that the slider is less accurate. Read up on
> them. I don't really care how YOU 'feel' about yours, I've observed
> them and wouldn't buy one for precision work. Would I buy one if I was
> a contractor framing a house. Yeah!
Gee, I put together a number of 12 segment rings that went together without the
need to sand to fit. The segments were cut on a Makita LS1013 slider. I guess 24
cuts at 15 degrees each, with practically 0 degree combined error, isn't precision
work.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Nova wrote:
> You made me pull out the manual for my saw. I've been pulling the blade through
> the cut since I had the saw. The manual tells me I've been doing it wrong. You
> are correct the proper way is to push the saw through the cut.
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
> (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
When I had my Delta Sawbuck it was pull through the cut. When I went to
the SCMS it was push through the cut..I use both methods, depending on
the cut I'm making at the time (i.e.- where am I willing to tolerate
minor splintering if it should occur in the finished cut). If it's just
standard trim or similar sized stock I just do the typical "chop"
through.
Never had an accuracy problem with the SCMS, it's properly adjusted and
I don't try to horse the thing through the cut.
Scott
--
An unkind remark is like a killing frost. No matter how much it warms
up later, the damage remains.
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:34:09 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>Steve,
>
>is that a 10" or 12" and thin kerf or standard?
>
>
10" and standard kerf. no need for a thin the saw has plenty of power. but it
makes a difference in accuracy of cut between my freud 80t and my WW blade.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
Can you lend me yours or are you still trying to figure them out? Must be
somebody in PA that can help although I would be at a loss to tell you who
and where. Maybe check out WV?
I was simply commenting on how I had asked a few OT questions very early in
the thread and then had to endure too many OT personal snipes without seeing
the answers. Sorry you were bothered.
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 01:58:25 GMT, "Tom Kohlman"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >...so with all that sniping aside, can we summarize?
> >
> <snip of comments that demonstrate poor reading comprehension skills>
>
> You should prolly work your way through the Reader Rabbit series
> before tackling the heavy stuff.
>
>
> Regards, Tom
> Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
> Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
> http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
...so with all that sniping aside, can we summarize?
SCMS works. Is it fair to say that it requires a little more "tuning" due
solely to the fact that it does more (back to my RAS analogy)?
Never having used one and thus have to rely on things I see on TV, does it
have the depth stop that will effectively replace the RAS for most things
(assuming one has a decent table saw to handle the things one can do on a
RAS but probably shouldn't)?
Thanks for the "closure"
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:06:18 -0800, "PeterM" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I have a chance to buy a 12" sliding DeWalt Miter Saw with a rollaway
> >table with wheels etc for 350.- I'm just wondering if I need the sliding
> >feature or not.......>Any help will be appreciated
> >
>
> I've had a 12" Dewalt SCMS (DW 708) for about three or four years.
> Before that I used an 8-1/2" Hitachi SCMS (C8FB2). Before that I
> used a 10" Makita Chop Saw. Before that I used a Stanley 5" Human
> Powered Mitre(sic) Box (358-A).
>
> Properly set up they are all accurate but the SCMS has the edge on
> capacity. I do a fair amount of tallish baseboards and larger size
> crown moldings and the extra capacity is a great advantage in these
> situations. This is particularly true for the largest crown moldings,
> as they may be cut lying down on the SCMS.
>
> The crosscut capacity of the SCMS is much greater than the CMS. I can
> rough cut a little over 20" in width on my Dewalt, by lifting the
> board and the blade (do not try this at home).
>
> It is important to use a quality blade (do not use thin kerf blades)
> and to allow the blade to come up to full speed before bringing it
> into contact with the wood. Deciding where to start the cut depends
> on what you need to accomplish.
>
> On pre-finished, wide flat work, or crown molding, where it must be
> cut with the good side up, I usually enter the piece slowly, back at
> the fence and pull towards me. Sometimes I will merely do a light
> scoring cut this way and then make the full depth cut on the push
> stroke. When the piece can be cut good side down I cut on the push.
> On smaller pieces of trim, that could be cut as you would with a chop
> saw, I push the blade into the cut, except in instances where a
> pre-finished top edge would make it better to cut as with a chop saw.
>
> On both of the SCMS types that I have used, a good feature is the
> depth stop. I find this to be very useful in making dentil moldings,
> scoring the line for some dado and rabbets, and for the relief cuts
> that must be made to bend curved baseboards and such. To have this
> work properly you must pack out the fence so that the full diameter of
> the blade enters the piece all along the cut. (a two inch rip to pack
> out the fence on the DW708)
>
> To come back to the consideration of accuracy; I've found the SCMS
> models that I've used to be plenty accurate for most trim work. I
> also get good square crosscuts when cutting 12" wide stock for
> bookcases. For very fine work, as in small moldings and small stock
> sizes, as might be used in jewelry boxes, etc., I use the SCMS to get
> me close and then finish up with a Lion Miter Trimmer.
>
> A Dewalt DW708 goes for around $600 new and the price you quoted fits
> in with what I usually expect to get for used equipment in good
> condition (60% of current best price). This doesn't take into
> consideration the stand, or any other accessories, blades, etc. that
> may come with it.
>
> If the saw is in good shape, you should wind up with an accurate,
> high-capacity tool for a fair price.
>
>
> Regards, Tom
> Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
> Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
> http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
Tom Kohlman asks:
>SCMS works. Is it fair to say that it requires a little more "tuning" due
>solely to the fact that it does more (back to my RAS analogy)?
More tuning than what? A chop style? Not much, if any.
>Never having used one and thus have to rely on things I see on TV, does it
>have the depth stop that will effectively replace the RAS for most things
>(assuming one has a decent table saw to handle the things one can do on a
>RAS but probably shouldn't)?
>
No. A good RAS will have a crosscut depth of 20+ inches. A good RAS can carry a
10" dado head. A good RAS can carry a molding head. The SCMS can do none of
those things.
Of course, these days a good RAS costs in the neighborhood of $3000.
Charlie Self
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of
things." Sir Winston Churchill
Charlie Self wrote...
> A good RAS will have a crosscut depth of 20+ inches. A good RAS can carry a
> 10" dado head. A good RAS can carry a molding head. The SCMS can do none of
> those things.
...and yet the SCMS takes nearly the same footprint as the RAS.
> Of course, these days a good RAS costs in the neighborhood of $3000.
A good new one. Bargains on good used ones are pretty easy to find. Of
course, crappy used ones are even more plentiful, so the buyer must
beware. Still, it does seem odd to me that they've fallen so much
out of favor.
Jim
Bay Area Dave wrote:
> Mark, you'll find there are a handful of characters here who would
> argue with me if I said the sky was blue.
Well, right now, outside my window it's black with little white sparkley
thingies and occasional fluffy white thingies... <g>
> Write something, quick, to me telling me what a useless, shiftless,
> demonic, moronic, nitwit I am. Then you'll be in their good graces.
My very first job after college a wise, old, retired Air Force pilot took me
under his wing. To boil down everything he taught me, the essence is to
write and speak from the other bloke's point of view.
I have read many things you have posted. Considering the whole paragraph,
they make sense. But you, as I did before the retired Colonel grabbed my
ear and made me understand, tend to write *first* in DISagreement, then
agreement. If you develop the habit of simply reversing these, people will
take much less offense. Very few people have developed the discipline to
read an entire article or paragraph and then pass judgement -- usually each
sentence, in turn, provides the cascading emotional impact.
I suggest you learn to do what I was taught to do in the early 1980's.
Instead of writing,
"Charlie, that's the single stupidest thing I've ever heard. But in some
ways I agree with you. The grommit should always be impaled on the
gadget..."
you should *consciously* try to write like this,
"Charlie, I agree completely about impaling the grommit on the gadget.
That makes perfect sense, and I do it all the time. But I don't agree with
your point about the fridget on the slammer. It seems to me ..."
The second techique focuses on the specifics; the first, unfortunately,
tends to focus on the individuals, no matter the merits of the ancillary
information.
To choose to use the 2nd technique takes lots of discipline and willingness
to read what one has written through they eyes of another. It also requires
a concious decision to demote one's own ego. I know this, because I've been
married over 20 years and have two teenagers. <g> Almost daily, my
decision is between "Do I want to foster growth and understanding" or "Do I
need to beat my chest the hardest, showing I'm the biggest ape in the
jungle?" It's not easy, but I usually choose to make sure the others feel
they are communicating accurately. (Many are the times I've sat in my car
afterward, listening to 1970's music, and crying... A 40+ year old dude
sitting in a Firebird crying in the rain?: Yup.)
To summarize, I believe if you hone your delivery skills you will be better
able to get your content across. The keys are to write from the other
person's point of view and to take one's own ego out of the writing as much
as possible.
I have a lot more I could write on this, In fact, I paused a very long time
after writing "Yup." trying to decide if more was apprpriate. I decided it
was better to wait for feedback, if any.
Summarizing: BAD, it seems to me that sometimes you make very good points
in such a way that many people take offense. You can learn to no create
these needless offenses; I have done so myself.
Thought? Comments?
-- Mark
Steve,
is that a 10" or 12" and thin kerf or standard?
dave
Steve Knight wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:47:06 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>it's not as accurate for precision cuts as a non slider. the blade and
>>motor will will have some lateral slop, in relation to the wood and
>>table. I quit using my non-slider for super precise cross-cuts. I made
>>a sled and use the TS for accurate cross-cuts. Like to within .005 or
>>better.
>
>
> my makita is as accurate as you are going to get with a good blade. I don't find
> the saw flexing at all. it blew away my delta chopsaws for accuracy and they
> were not sliders.
>
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bay Area Dave wrote:
>
> > I stand by the statement that the slider is less accurate. Read up on
> > them. I don't really care how YOU 'feel' about yours, I've observed
> > them and wouldn't buy one for precision work. Would I buy one if I was
> > a contractor framing a house. Yeah!
>
> Gee, I put together a number of 12 segment rings that went together
without the
> need to sand to fit. The segments were cut on a Makita LS1013 slider. I
guess 24
> cuts at 15 degrees each, with practically 0 degree combined error, isn't
precision
> work.
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
> (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
>
>
The results sound great to me. 12 segments at 15 degrees is a complicated
assembly.
Bob McBreen
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:43:46 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>as long as YOU are happy with the accuracy that's all that matters. I
>don't even use my Dewalt CMS for precise cross-cuts. I use a sled. By
>using a moving blade and the Bies fence I can quickly cut a number of
>boards to exact length and the cut is cleaner than what comes off my
>Dewalt, even using an 80 tooth blade. A moving WWII gives a better cut
>than the 80 Dewalt. Plus the DeWalt is thin kerf and it WILL flex when
>cutting wider boards, even those that aren't very thick, and YES, even
>if I go pretty slowly.
well you are using a 12" thin kerf blade what do you expect? try a 1) WW chopsaw
blade a world of difference.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:05:59 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>To choose to use the 2nd technique takes lots of discipline
Mark,
Very well thought out discourse which I can honestly say impressed me
with it's balanced tone and sincerity. I DO agree that delivery is
important for the message to be received. Now if the other side will
just play nice, we could all go back "on topic" and leave the character
assassinating posts to die a well-deserved death.
dave
Mark Jerde wrote:
> Bay Area Dave wrote:
>
>>Mark, you'll find there are a handful of characters here who would
>>argue with me if I said the sky was blue.
>
>
> Well, right now, outside my window it's black with little white sparkley
> thingies and occasional fluffy white thingies... <g>
>
>>Write something, quick, to me telling me what a useless, shiftless,
>>demonic, moronic, nitwit I am. Then you'll be in their good graces.
>
>
> My very first job after college a wise, old, retired Air Force pilot took me
> under his wing. To boil down everything he taught me, the essence is to
> write and speak from the other bloke's point of view.
>
> I have read many things you have posted. Considering the whole paragraph,
> they make sense. But you, as I did before the retired Colonel grabbed my
> ear and made me understand, tend to write *first* in DISagreement, then
> agreement. If you develop the habit of simply reversing these, people will
> take much less offense. Very few people have developed the discipline to
> read an entire article or paragraph and then pass judgement -- usually each
> sentence, in turn, provides the cascading emotional impact.
>
> I suggest you learn to do what I was taught to do in the early 1980's.
> Instead of writing,
>
> "Charlie, that's the single stupidest thing I've ever heard. But in some
> ways I agree with you. The grommit should always be impaled on the
> gadget..."
>
> you should *consciously* try to write like this,
>
> "Charlie, I agree completely about impaling the grommit on the gadget.
> That makes perfect sense, and I do it all the time. But I don't agree with
> your point about the fridget on the slammer. It seems to me ..."
>
> The second techique focuses on the specifics; the first, unfortunately,
> tends to focus on the individuals, no matter the merits of the ancillary
> information.
>
>
> To choose to use the 2nd technique takes lots of discipline and willingness
> to read what one has written through they eyes of another. It also requires
> a concious decision to demote one's own ego. I know this, because I've been
> married over 20 years and have two teenagers. <g> Almost daily, my
> decision is between "Do I want to foster growth and understanding" or "Do I
> need to beat my chest the hardest, showing I'm the biggest ape in the
> jungle?" It's not easy, but I usually choose to make sure the others feel
> they are communicating accurately. (Many are the times I've sat in my car
> afterward, listening to 1970's music, and crying... A 40+ year old dude
> sitting in a Firebird crying in the rain?: Yup.)
>
> To summarize, I believe if you hone your delivery skills you will be better
> able to get your content across. The keys are to write from the other
> person's point of view and to take one's own ego out of the writing as much
> as possible.
>
> I have a lot more I could write on this, In fact, I paused a very long time
> after writing "Yup." trying to decide if more was apprpriate. I decided it
> was better to wait for feedback, if any.
>
>
> Summarizing: BAD, it seems to me that sometimes you make very good points
> in such a way that many people take offense. You can learn to no create
> these needless offenses; I have done so myself.
>
> Thought? Comments?
>
> -- Mark
>
>
>
On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 01:58:25 GMT, "Tom Kohlman"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>...so with all that sniping aside, can we summarize?
>
<snip of comments that demonstrate poor reading comprehension skills>
You should prolly work your way through the Reader Rabbit series
before tackling the heavy stuff.
Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
Seems like a great deal Peter (the non-slider is $300 new without stand and
the slider is $600 according to an earlier post).
Not ever using one, I didn't realize the slider worked like a RAS with a
"pull" across the piece which has the tendency to pull it away from the
fence. Non-slider comes down on the piece and with the rotation of the blade
has a tendency to push the piece back against the fence. I had a RAS as my
main tool for years (loved it) but it was not super accurate on cross-cuts
for that reason.
"PeterM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> You guys are so great here,everybody helps. I'm a little dumb it
> doesn't matter to you guys, you still help. Try this in any Adobe News
> Group, and you think you landed in a pot of conceded schmucks. I think
> the saw is over my head honestly, but thanks for all the wonderful
> responses. The saw is here in Sacramento, in case someone is interested,
> I will pass..........Peter
>
> "Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > PeterM wrote:
> >
> > > Now I'm confused, are you saying the sliding one is not as accurate?
> > > Then I won't buy it.......Peter
> >
> > You got to keep in mind Dave's the type of guy that forgets little
> details,
> > like remembering to put bottoms in the drawers he makes.
> >
> > --
> > Jack Novak
> > Buffalo, NY - USA
> > (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
> >
> >
>
>
I have the DW 12" non-slider so don't know much about the slider. But
doesn't the slider also have a blade height stop so it acts kinda like a RAS
if you want to cut rough dados? Other than that, I can imagine it also has
the drawbacks of the RAS in terms of a little more flex and a few more
adjustments to make to keep it perfectly tuned. As for the price, either
lying, got a great deal or is something wrong with it!!! I believe it
retails for over $600 new (maybe closer to $700 but I can't remember).
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> it's not as accurate for precision cuts as a non slider. the blade and
> motor will will have some lateral slop, in relation to the wood and
> table. I quit using my non-slider for super precise cross-cuts. I made
> a sled and use the TS for accurate cross-cuts. Like to within .005 or
> better.
>
> Note: The published maximum width you can cut a flat board on a non
> slider can be exceeded. Just put a board under your wide work piece;
> that will place the workplace at a wider section of the blade. Look at
> a miter saw to visualize this.
>
>
> dave
>
> PeterM wrote:
>
> > I have a chance to buy a 12" sliding DeWalt Miter Saw with a rollaway
> > table with wheels etc for 350.- I'm just wondering if I need the sliding
> > feature or not.......>Any help will be appreciated
> >
> >
>
as long as YOU are happy with the accuracy that's all that matters. I
don't even use my Dewalt CMS for precise cross-cuts. I use a sled. By
using a moving blade and the Bies fence I can quickly cut a number of
boards to exact length and the cut is cleaner than what comes off my
Dewalt, even using an 80 tooth blade. A moving WWII gives a better cut
than the 80 Dewalt. Plus the DeWalt is thin kerf and it WILL flex when
cutting wider boards, even those that aren't very thick, and YES, even
if I go pretty slowly. Take a straight edge to a 6" board (baltic birch
comes to mind) cut on a non-slider, using a thin kerf blade, and look at
the bow in the cut. I suppose if I slow WAAAY down so that it takes
forever to get the blade through, the cut would be straight. I'm not
that patient. I'm also not forcing it; after cutting too fast, I slowed
down, figuring the cuts would be acceptable; they weren't and that day I
built a sled.
I stand by the statement that the slider is less accurate. Read up on
them. I don't really care how YOU 'feel' about yours, I've observed
them and wouldn't buy one for precision work. Would I buy one if I was
a contractor framing a house. Yeah!
dave
RWM wrote:
> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>it's not as accurate for precision cuts as a non slider. the blade and
>>motor will will have some lateral slop, in relation to the wood and
>>table. I quit using my non-slider for super precise cross-cuts. I made
>>a sled and use the TS for accurate cross-cuts. Like to within .005 or
>>better.
>>
>><SNIP>
>
>
> Where did you get your information concerning the accuracy of the slider vs.
> non-slider? Did you measure it, or simply parrot some information that you
> read somewhere? I have a 12" Dewalt SCMS and a Dewalt 12" CMS and have done
> a bunch of tests. When the saws are adjusted properly there is zero
> difference in the accuracy of the cut.
>
> In my opinion the biggest differences in the two saws is that the SCMS can
> cut wider pieces, but it also takes a lot more room away from the wall.
>
> Bob McBreen
>
>
no argument there. i suspect the thin kerf to be much of the problem.
Steve Knight wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 02:43:46 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>as long as YOU are happy with the accuracy that's all that matters. I
>>don't even use my Dewalt CMS for precise cross-cuts. I use a sled. By
>>using a moving blade and the Bies fence I can quickly cut a number of
>>boards to exact length and the cut is cleaner than what comes off my
>>Dewalt, even using an 80 tooth blade. A moving WWII gives a better cut
>>than the 80 Dewalt. Plus the DeWalt is thin kerf and it WILL flex when
>>cutting wider boards, even those that aren't very thick, and YES, even
>>if I go pretty slowly.
>
> well you are using a 12" thin kerf blade what do you expect? try a 1) WW chopsaw
> blade a world of difference.
>
I believe I may be infamous for being overly terse. I hate typing.
hard to stay on the NG's w/o keyboarding, but I hate it nonetheless.
YOu are correct; I didn't explain sufficiently the first time. I
shouldn't expect you to read between the lines. next time I'll try
being a bit more forthcoming. (Just don't expect proper capitalization)
dave
Jim Wilson wrote:
> Bay Area Dave sez in one breath...
>
>
>>you didn't read the follow up posts.
>
>
> and in the next...
>
>
>>You assumed too much.
>
>
> To belabor a minor point, what I said was that you either weren't doing
> it right OR not explaining it properly. So, the latter was the case.
> Fine.
>
> However, you did manage to miss the gist of my post; perhaps it was only
> so clear as yours, Davebo?
>
> Jim
In response to Peter's confusion...
> >Now I'm confused, are you saying the sliding one is not as accurate?
> >Then I won't buy it.......Peter
Michael penned this pear of wisdom...
> Oh, for Christ's sake. Peter, the saw you are talking about is a
> fantastic saw at a fantastic price. Jump on it. Some people talk
> about "accuracy" around here as if they used their equipment to
> machine escapements for goddamn Rolexes. Take it all with a grain of
> salt. Just like most other newsgroups, this one's got it's share of
> cowboys who are all hat and no cattle.
Michael nails it! AMEN!!!
Peter, I paid mail order retail for mine (Tool King of Denver) and was
delighted with the price $509. That was two years ago. Since then, I've
framed an entire house with it, and it's been in frequent use in my
cabinet shop ever since. It still makes perfect full-length crosscuts. I
have aligned it twice since buying it; once on receipt, and once after
moving it to a new station. It crosscuts long stock more easily and every
bit as accurately as a crosscut sled on my tablesaw, which is a Delta
Unisaw in excellent condition and alignment.
Echoing Michael, if it's not damaged, buy it!
Jim
Bay Area Dave wrote...
> I stand by the statement that the slider is less accurate.
You're standing by a foolish statement, then.
> Read up on them.
Why? He's not the one having problems. You are! Perhaps you should be
trying to figure out why your saw doesn't work as well as his (and mine).
You're obviously doing something wrong.
> I don't really care how YOU 'feel' about yours,
He wasn't talking about "feelings." He was relating his experience. He
*tested* the two saws against each other. His experience is worth a lot
more than your opinion, especially given *your* comparison:
<BAD>> I use a sled. By
> using a moving blade and the Bies fence I can quickly cut a number of
> boards to exact length and the cut is cleaner than what comes off my
> Dewalt, even using an 80 tooth blade. A moving WWII gives a better cut
> than the 80 Dewalt. Plus the DeWalt is thin kerf and it WILL flex when
> cutting wider boards, even those that aren't very thick, and YES, even
> if I go pretty slowly
You make a lot of mistakes here. Example 1: you use the Bies fence for
cross-cutting. Either you don't know what you are doing, or you aren't
explaining it properly. If you *are* using a stop block, then the fact
that it's on a Bies fence means nothing. If you aren't, then you are
inviting problems crosscutting with the fence on a tablesaw. Equal
accuracy (and better, for longer stock) can be achieved with a stop block
setup on the miter saw. Example 2: A "moving WWII"? In a tablesaw? Or are
you talking about the fact that the blade rotates? Like the "80 Dewalt"
doesn't? You just don't make sense. Example 3: You now have started
comparing the blades, thus changing the topic. Example 4: You complain
about not getting straight cuts, and blame it on the type of blade. You
have misdiagnosed the problem. Either your blade is bad, or your saw is
misaligned. But the problem is not attributable to the blade's thin kerf,
nor to the fact that it is being used on a SCMS.
These things seriously jeopardize your credibility.
Jim
Bay Area Dave sez in one breath...
> you didn't read the follow up posts.
and in the next...
> You assumed too much.
To belabor a minor point, what I said was that you either weren't doing
it right OR not explaining it properly. So, the latter was the case.
Fine.
However, you did manage to miss the gist of my post; perhaps it was only
so clear as yours, Davebo?
Jim
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:13:31 -0800, "PeterM" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Now I'm confused, are you saying the sliding one is not as accurate?
>> Then I won't buy it.......Peter
>>
> Oh, for Christ's sake. Peter, the saw you are talking about is a
> fantastic saw at a fantastic price. Jump on it. Some people talk
> about "accuracy" around here as if they used their equipment to
> machine escapements for goddamn Rolexes. Take it all with a grain of
> salt. Just like most other newsgroups, this one's got it's share of
> cowboys who are all hat and no cattle.
>
> Michael
Yeah, or buy it for me and I'll pay $20 + the shipping... <g>
-- Mark
Nova wrote:
> You start the cut with the head pushed to the back of the saw and
> pull the head through the cut.
I thought it was the other way around. Pull all the way out, put into the
wood, push forward. It's based not on personal experience but something I
read somewhere about a sliding miter being safer than a radial arm saw.
-- Mark
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> as long as YOU are happy with the accuracy that's all that matters. I
> don't even use my Dewalt CMS for precise cross-cuts. I use a sled. By
> using a moving blade and the Bies fence I can quickly cut a number of
> boards to exact length and the cut is cleaner than what comes off my
> Dewalt, even using an 80 tooth blade. A moving WWII gives a better cut
> than the 80 Dewalt. Plus the DeWalt is thin kerf and it WILL flex when
> cutting wider boards, even those that aren't very thick, and YES, even
> if I go pretty slowly. Take a straight edge to a 6" board (baltic birch
> comes to mind) cut on a non-slider, using a thin kerf blade, and look at
> the bow in the cut. I suppose if I slow WAAAY down so that it takes
> forever to get the blade through, the cut would be straight. I'm not
> that patient. I'm also not forcing it; after cutting too fast, I slowed
> down, figuring the cuts would be acceptable; they weren't and that day I
> built a sled.
>
> I stand by the statement that the slider is less accurate. Read up on
> them. I don't really care how YOU 'feel' about yours, I've observed
> them and wouldn't buy one for precision work. Would I buy one if I was
> a contractor framing a house. Yeah!
>
You seem to have an interesting way of non answering. The topic was sliding
miter saws vs. non-sliding miter saws, not miter saws vs. cross cut sleds on
a table saw. My question was if you had measured the accuracy difference,
or if you were parroting something that you had read. From your answer it
is pretty clear that you have read about the accuracy of sliding miter saws,
and you have measured the accuracy of the cut that you get with your
non-slider, but it sounds like you have never investigated the difference
between sliders and non-sliders. I wonder why you felt you had information
to add to the slider vs. non-slider comparison.
I also don't understand the following:
"I use a sled. By using a moving blade and the Bies fence I can quickly cut
a number of boards to exact length."
Are you using a sled, the fence, or both to cross cut?
Bob McBreen
So all the reviewers are wrong? And we are to believe your anecdodal
"evidence"? Do you see how easily the tables can be turned? You
castigate me as "presenting" myself as knowledgeable. There is nothing
disingenuous with providing information gleaned from reading, especially
from various reputable sources, for the consumption of others. If you
feel your slider is accurate, fine; I'm not so inclined. I've looked at
more than several of them and every time I grabbed their movable saw, I
could elicit a noticeable amount of side play; no matter the brand.
I've concluded from repeated observation AND reading that they won't
suit my purposes. Am I wrong? could be? Am I evil or stupid for
stating my opinion? Apparently in YOUR myopic eyes. Do I care? NO!!!!
dave
RWM wrote:
> "Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>RWM wrote:
>>
>>
>>>You seem to have an interesting way of non answering. The topic was
>>>sliding miter saws vs. non-sliding miter saws, not miter saws vs.
>>>cross cut sleds on a table saw.
>>
>>With all respect (not looking to pick a fight <g>) the OP was concerned
>>about accuracy as the thread progressed. BAD's reply (though I need more
>>info before I accept his responses at full value) dealt with accuracy.
>>(Dave -- I use a 10" thin kerf almost exclusively in my TS. ISTM there
>
> may
>
>>be something else with your setup causing the discernable inaccuracy when
>>crosscutting. Also, not trying to pic a fight... <g>) Therefore I find
>>Dave's comments completely in the thread, though they differ from the
>>specifics of the original post.
>>
>>IMHO... <g>
>>
>> -- Mark
>
>
> I agree with a lot of what you have to say, but I was trying to get BAD to
> state if he had really investigated the accuracy difference between the
> types of saws. I find that many times people like to repeat things that
> they have read to try to present themselves as knowledgeable. I have, and
> use, both types of saws and one of the first things that I did after
> purchasing the scms was to test the accuracy. I found zero difference even
> though that I had read in many articles the throw away line "that scms were
> less accurate than cms."
>
> There are a lot of "expert" woodworkers who don't cut a lot of wood...
>
> Bob McBreen
>
>
Mark,
for safety reasons, I suggest you never make a cut by 'pushing' the slider.
The blade can (and will) lift the leading edge of the wood off the saw plate
unless it is clamped down, the probable result being a kickback as the blade
jams in the wood. It will also give much greater tearout as the blade is
egressing into the air instead of down into the table.
By pulling the saw, the blade pushes the wood down into the table and fence
at the same time, assisting with a stable, safe, cut.
regards,
Greg
"Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:O%[email protected]...
> Nova wrote:
>
> > You start the cut with the head pushed to the back of the saw and
> > pull the head through the cut.
>
> I thought it was the other way around. Pull all the way out, put into the
> wood, push forward. It's based not on personal experience but something I
> read somewhere about a sliding miter being safer than a radial arm saw.
>
> -- Mark
>
>
"Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
<SNIP>
> To summarize, I believe if you hone your delivery skills you will be
better
> able to get your content across. The keys are to write from the other
> person's point of view and to take one's own ego out of the writing as
much
> as possible.
>
> I have a lot more I could write on this, In fact, I paused a very long
time
> after writing "Yup." trying to decide if more was apprpriate. I decided
it
> was better to wait for feedback, if any.
>
>
> Summarizing: BAD, it seems to me that sometimes you make very good points
> in such a way that many people take offense. You can learn to no create
> these needless offenses; I have done so myself.
>
> Thought? Comments?
>
> -- Mark
My concern was not with the style of delivery, but rather if the information
that BAD posted was based in fact. I tend to get along with most people and
have learned that over time I really enjoy spending time with people who at
first I didn't understand.
It doesn't seem like the information that BAD posted was based in fact, and
posting information that you have no real knowledge of is a huge disservice
to the newsgroup
Bob McBreen
"Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> RWM wrote:
>
> > You seem to have an interesting way of non answering. The topic was
> > sliding miter saws vs. non-sliding miter saws, not miter saws vs.
> > cross cut sleds on a table saw.
>
> With all respect (not looking to pick a fight <g>) the OP was concerned
> about accuracy as the thread progressed. BAD's reply (though I need more
> info before I accept his responses at full value) dealt with accuracy.
> (Dave -- I use a 10" thin kerf almost exclusively in my TS. ISTM there
may
> be something else with your setup causing the discernable inaccuracy when
> crosscutting. Also, not trying to pic a fight... <g>) Therefore I find
> Dave's comments completely in the thread, though they differ from the
> specifics of the original post.
>
> IMHO... <g>
>
> -- Mark
I agree with a lot of what you have to say, but I was trying to get BAD to
state if he had really investigated the accuracy difference between the
types of saws. I find that many times people like to repeat things that
they have read to try to present themselves as knowledgeable. I have, and
use, both types of saws and one of the first things that I did after
purchasing the scms was to test the accuracy. I found zero difference even
though that I had read in many articles the throw away line "that scms were
less accurate than cms."
There are a lot of "expert" woodworkers who don't cut a lot of wood...
Bob McBreen
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:16:49 GMT, Michael Baglio
<mbaglio<NOSPAM>@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:05:59 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>To choose to use the 2nd technique takes lots of discipline and willingness
>>to read what one has written through they eyes of another. It also requires
>>a concious decision to demote one's own ego
... for those flying pigs. ;>
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 01:47:06 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>it's not as accurate for precision cuts as a non slider. the blade and
>motor will will have some lateral slop, in relation to the wood and
>table. I quit using my non-slider for super precise cross-cuts. I made
>a sled and use the TS for accurate cross-cuts. Like to within .005 or
>better.
my makita is as accurate as you are going to get with a good blade. I don't find
the saw flexing at all. it blew away my delta chopsaws for accuracy and they
were not sliders.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
Steve Knight responds:
>>it's not as accurate for precision cuts as a non slider. the blade and
>>motor will will have some lateral slop, in relation to the wood and
>>table. I quit using my non-slider for super precise cross-cuts. I made
>>a sled and use the TS for accurate cross-cuts. Like to within .005 or
>>better.
>
>my makita is as accurate as you are going to get with a good blade. I don't
>find
>the saw flexing at all. it blew away my delta chopsaws for accuracy and they
>were not sliders.
Yeah, well, when I tested a bunch of these a couple years ago, I did find that
you could more easily twist the handles on the sliders to force the cut off the
proper line.
Given anything like proper technique, I found NO difference in the better
quality sliders and non-sliders. The lower quality units weren't all that bad,
but needed more care in handling and more frequent tuning (which isn't nearly
as bad as tuning an RAS, because the slider mechanisms on the SCMSs are
simpler).
I was able to twist every saw off its proper line, so a gentle hand and a
straight downward pressure (in the direction of the line of the cut) is a real
help with these tools.
Charlie Self
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfils the same
function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of
things." Sir Winston Churchill
Thanks Swingman........It has a 12" saw blade. It will not move as I'm
cutting right? I just pull it out before I cut, and that then it will
let me cut like the 12". Is that correct? Don't laugh, I'm not
experienced with this. How does the price sound?.....Peter
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In a nutshell, crosscuts a greater width than a non sliding miter saw
..
> usually up to about 12", depending upon blade size.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 9/21/03
>
> "PeterM" wrote in message
> > I have a chance to buy a 12" sliding DeWalt Miter Saw with a
rollaway
> > table with wheels etc for 350.- I'm just wondering if I need the
sliding
> > feature or not.......>Any help will be appreciated
> >
> >
>
>
Thanks Nova, wow, I had no idea that this was the way to do it. Now I
know............ Can you tell me if you think the price is OK......Peter
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> PeterM wrote:
>
> > Thanks Swingman........It has a 12" saw blade. It will not move as
I'm
> > cutting right? I just pull it out before I cut, and that then it
will
> > let me cut like the 12". Is that correct? Don't laugh, I'm not
> > experienced with this. How does the price sound?.....Peter
>
> You start the cut with the head pushed to the back of the saw and pull
the
> head through the cut.
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
> (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
>
>
Now I'm confused, are you saying the sliding one is not as accurate?
Then I won't buy it.......Peter
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> it's not as accurate for precision cuts as a non slider. the blade
and
> motor will will have some lateral slop, in relation to the wood and
> table. I quit using my non-slider for super precise cross-cuts. I
made
> a sled and use the TS for accurate cross-cuts. Like to within .005 or
> better.
>
> Note: The published maximum width you can cut a flat board on a non
> slider can be exceeded. Just put a board under your wide work piece;
> that will place the workplace at a wider section of the blade. Look
at
> a miter saw to visualize this.
>
>
> dave
>
> PeterM wrote:
>
> > I have a chance to buy a 12" sliding DeWalt Miter Saw with a
rollaway
> > table with wheels etc for 350.- I'm just wondering if I need the
sliding
> > feature or not.......>Any help will be appreciated
> >
> >
>
You guys are so great here,everybody helps. I'm a little dumb it
doesn't matter to you guys, you still help. Try this in any Adobe News
Group, and you think you landed in a pot of conceded schmucks. I think
the saw is over my head honestly, but thanks for all the wonderful
responses. The saw is here in Sacramento, in case someone is interested,
I will pass..........Peter
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> PeterM wrote:
>
> > Now I'm confused, are you saying the sliding one is not as accurate?
> > Then I won't buy it.......Peter
>
> You got to keep in mind Dave's the type of guy that forgets little
details,
> like remembering to put bottoms in the drawers he makes.
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
> (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
>
>
I was the original poster........This was/is a remarkable post, I
learned a lot, and laughed a lot, but I think all the information taught
me to stick with my non-sliding ugly old MiterSaw. Many thanks to you
all.......Peter
"Jay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> One thing to think about is clearance behind the saw. It will need to
be
> farther away from the wall then a non-sliding saw. Otherwise, cutting
> capacity is the main difference.
>
>
> "PeterM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I have a chance to buy a 12" sliding DeWalt Miter Saw with a
rollaway
> > table with wheels etc for 350.- I'm just wondering if I need the
sliding
> > feature or not.......>Any help will be appreciated
> >
> >
>
>
O
>You start the cut with the head pushed to the back of the saw and pull the
>head through the cut.
you have that backwards you start with the head pulled out drop it into the wood
and push backwards. the other way is a radial arm saw.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> <SNIP>
"Am I evil or stupid for stating my opinion?"
>
>Opinions are fine, presenting your opinions as fact can be misleading.
Bob McBreen.
RWM wrote:
> You seem to have an interesting way of non answering. The topic was
> sliding miter saws vs. non-sliding miter saws, not miter saws vs.
> cross cut sleds on a table saw.
With all respect (not looking to pick a fight <g>) the OP was concerned
about accuracy as the thread progressed. BAD's reply (though I need more
info before I accept his responses at full value) dealt with accuracy.
(Dave -- I use a 10" thin kerf almost exclusively in my TS. ISTM there may
be something else with your setup causing the discernable inaccuracy when
crosscutting. Also, not trying to pic a fight... <g>) Therefore I find
Dave's comments completely in the thread, though they differ from the
specifics of the original post.
IMHO... <g>
-- Mark
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:06:18 -0800, "PeterM" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I have a chance to buy a 12" sliding DeWalt Miter Saw with a rollaway
>table with wheels etc for 350.- I'm just wondering if I need the sliding
>feature or not.......>Any help will be appreciated
>
I've had a 12" Dewalt SCMS (DW 708) for about three or four years.
Before that I used an 8-1/2" Hitachi SCMS (C8FB2). Before that I
used a 10" Makita Chop Saw. Before that I used a Stanley 5" Human
Powered Mitre(sic) Box (358-A).
Properly set up they are all accurate but the SCMS has the edge on
capacity. I do a fair amount of tallish baseboards and larger size
crown moldings and the extra capacity is a great advantage in these
situations. This is particularly true for the largest crown moldings,
as they may be cut lying down on the SCMS.
The crosscut capacity of the SCMS is much greater than the CMS. I can
rough cut a little over 20" in width on my Dewalt, by lifting the
board and the blade (do not try this at home).
It is important to use a quality blade (do not use thin kerf blades)
and to allow the blade to come up to full speed before bringing it
into contact with the wood. Deciding where to start the cut depends
on what you need to accomplish.
On pre-finished, wide flat work, or crown molding, where it must be
cut with the good side up, I usually enter the piece slowly, back at
the fence and pull towards me. Sometimes I will merely do a light
scoring cut this way and then make the full depth cut on the push
stroke. When the piece can be cut good side down I cut on the push.
On smaller pieces of trim, that could be cut as you would with a chop
saw, I push the blade into the cut, except in instances where a
pre-finished top edge would make it better to cut as with a chop saw.
On both of the SCMS types that I have used, a good feature is the
depth stop. I find this to be very useful in making dentil moldings,
scoring the line for some dado and rabbets, and for the relief cuts
that must be made to bend curved baseboards and such. To have this
work properly you must pack out the fence so that the full diameter of
the blade enters the piece all along the cut. (a two inch rip to pack
out the fence on the DW708)
To come back to the consideration of accuracy; I've found the SCMS
models that I've used to be plenty accurate for most trim work. I
also get good square crosscuts when cutting 12" wide stock for
bookcases. For very fine work, as in small moldings and small stock
sizes, as might be used in jewelry boxes, etc., I use the SCMS to get
me close and then finish up with a Lion Miter Trimmer.
A Dewalt DW708 goes for around $600 new and the price you quoted fits
in with what I usually expect to get for used equipment in good
condition (60% of current best price). This doesn't take into
consideration the stand, or any other accessories, blades, etc. that
may come with it.
If the saw is in good shape, you should wind up with an accurate,
high-capacity tool for a fair price.
Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
In a nutshell, crosscuts a greater width than a non sliding miter saw ..
usually up to about 12", depending upon blade size.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"PeterM" wrote in message
> I have a chance to buy a 12" sliding DeWalt Miter Saw with a rollaway
> table with wheels etc for 350.- I'm just wondering if I need the sliding
> feature or not.......>Any help will be appreciated
>
>
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 11:16:49 GMT, Michael Baglio
<mbaglio<NOSPAM>@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 06:05:59 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>To choose to use the 2nd technique takes lots of discipline and willingness
>>to read what one has written through they eyes of another.
I'll be watching...
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 18:13:31 -0800, "PeterM" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Now I'm confused, are you saying the sliding one is not as accurate?
>Then I won't buy it.......Peter
>
Oh, for Christ's sake. Peter, the saw you are talking about is a
fantastic saw at a fantastic price. Jump on it. Some people talk
about "accuracy" around here as if they used their equipment to
machine escapements for goddamn Rolexes. Take it all with a grain of
salt. Just like most other newsgroups, this one's got it's share of
cowboys who are all hat and no cattle.
Michael
Steve,
that's been my take on why I get bowed cuts on my 12" Dewalt--it's a
skinny blade.
all of the Freud's at HD are thin kerf (all the ones in the store I was
in last week). ever see a HD with a std kerf Freud?
dave
Steve Knight wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 16:34:09 GMT, Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Steve,
>>
>>is that a 10" or 12" and thin kerf or standard?
>>
>>
>
> 10" and standard kerf. no need for a thin the saw has plenty of power. but it
> makes a difference in accuracy of cut between my freud 80t and my WW blade.
>
you didn't read the follow up posts. that will clear up your idea that
I'm using the Bies incorrectly.
a moving blade--of course I mean moving laterally through the wood, as
opposed to a CMS that comes straight down. NOT a slider - that is
moving, akin to a TS.
so you see, Jimbo, I'm not QUITE as stupid as you surmised. you just
didn't do your homework to check the other posts explaining in
excruciating detail what I'd hope everyone could understand without me
having to explain every last little thing. You assumed too much.
dave
Jim Wilson wrote:
> Bay Area Dave wrote...
>
>>I stand by the statement that the slider is less accurate.
>
>
> You're standing by a foolish statement, then.
>
>
>>Read up on them.
>
>
> Why? He's not the one having problems. You are! Perhaps you should be
> trying to figure out why your saw doesn't work as well as his (and mine).
> You're obviously doing something wrong.
>
>
>>I don't really care how YOU 'feel' about yours,
>
>
> He wasn't talking about "feelings." He was relating his experience. He
> *tested* the two saws against each other. His experience is worth a lot
> more than your opinion, especially given *your* comparison:
>
> <BAD>> I use a sled. By
>
>>using a moving blade and the Bies fence I can quickly cut a number of
>>boards to exact length and the cut is cleaner than what comes off my
>>Dewalt, even using an 80 tooth blade. A moving WWII gives a better cut
>>than the 80 Dewalt. Plus the DeWalt is thin kerf and it WILL flex when
>>cutting wider boards, even those that aren't very thick, and YES, even
>>if I go pretty slowly
>
>
> You make a lot of mistakes here. Example 1: you use the Bies fence for
> cross-cutting. Either you don't know what you are doing, or you aren't
> explaining it properly. If you *are* using a stop block, then the fact
> that it's on a Bies fence means nothing. If you aren't, then you are
> inviting problems crosscutting with the fence on a tablesaw. Equal
> accuracy (and better, for longer stock) can be achieved with a stop block
> setup on the miter saw. Example 2: A "moving WWII"? In a tablesaw? Or are
> you talking about the fact that the blade rotates? Like the "80 Dewalt"
> doesn't? You just don't make sense. Example 3: You now have started
> comparing the blades, thus changing the topic. Example 4: You complain
> about not getting straight cuts, and blame it on the type of blade. You
> have misdiagnosed the problem. Either your blade is bad, or your saw is
> misaligned. But the problem is not attributable to the blade's thin kerf,
> nor to the fact that it is being used on a SCMS.
>
> These things seriously jeopardize your credibility.
>
> Jim
>that's been my take on why I get bowed cuts on my 12" Dewalt--it's a
>skinny blade.
even 1/8" kerf blades can flex.
>all of the Freud's at HD are thin kerf (all the ones in the store I was
>in last week). ever see a HD with a std kerf Freud?
>
just beak down and buy the woodworker chop saw blade it cuts so nice and does it
faster too.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
Mark, you'll find there are a handful of characters here who would argue
with me if I said the sky was blue. I give up trying to reason with
them after the second go-around, usually. :) They go off topic
constantly, yet they complain about the on-topic discussion of accuracy
that I brought up. If you ever agree with me you'll will be branded by
the low lifes that attempt to control this news group. Mob mentality is
alive and well on the Wreck.
Write something, quick, to me telling me what a useless, shiftless,
demonic, moronic, nitwit I am. Then you'll be in their good graces.
dave
Mark Jerde wrote:
> RWM wrote:
>
>
>>You seem to have an interesting way of non answering. The topic was
>>sliding miter saws vs. non-sliding miter saws, not miter saws vs.
>>cross cut sleds on a table saw.
>
>
> With all respect (not looking to pick a fight <g>) the OP was concerned
> about accuracy as the thread progressed. BAD's reply (though I need more
> info before I accept his responses at full value) dealt with accuracy.
> (Dave -- I use a 10" thin kerf almost exclusively in my TS. ISTM there may
> be something else with your setup causing the discernable inaccuracy when
> crosscutting. Also, not trying to pic a fight... <g>) Therefore I find
> Dave's comments completely in the thread, though they differ from the
> specifics of the original post.
>
> IMHO... <g>
>
> -- Mark
>
>
>
it's not as accurate for precision cuts as a non slider. the blade and
motor will will have some lateral slop, in relation to the wood and
table. I quit using my non-slider for super precise cross-cuts. I made
a sled and use the TS for accurate cross-cuts. Like to within .005 or
better.
Note: The published maximum width you can cut a flat board on a non
slider can be exceeded. Just put a board under your wide work piece;
that will place the workplace at a wider section of the blade. Look at
a miter saw to visualize this.
dave
PeterM wrote:
> I have a chance to buy a 12" sliding DeWalt Miter Saw with a rollaway
> table with wheels etc for 350.- I'm just wondering if I need the sliding
> feature or not.......>Any help will be appreciated
>
>
What was the question????
As far as the saw cutting wavy ?
News flash: Any saw will cut poorly if you don't run it at it's 'natural
rhythm'.
Everything has a speed which it wants to happen. Everything. Exceed this
speed and it's going to screw up.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
One thing to think about is clearance behind the saw. It will need to be
farther away from the wall then a non-sliding saw. Otherwise, cutting
capacity is the main difference.
"PeterM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have a chance to buy a 12" sliding DeWalt Miter Saw with a rollaway
> table with wheels etc for 350.- I'm just wondering if I need the sliding
> feature or not.......>Any help will be appreciated
>
>
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bay Area Dave wrote:
>
> > I stand by the statement that the slider is less accurate. Read up on
> > them. I don't really care how YOU 'feel' about yours, I've observed
> > them and wouldn't buy one for precision work. Would I buy one if I was
> > a contractor framing a house. Yeah!
>
> Gee, I put together a number of 12 segment rings that went together
without the
> need to sand to fit. The segments were cut on a Makita LS1013 slider. I
guess 24
> cuts at 15 degrees each, with practically 0 degree combined error, isn't
precision
> work.
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
> (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
>
>
I have a Makita LS1013 also, great saw i can't imagine doing alot of
projects without it anymore. as far as accuricy goes i am amazed at how well
it does with trim work.
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> it's not as accurate for precision cuts as a non slider. the blade and
> motor will will have some lateral slop, in relation to the wood and
> table. I quit using my non-slider for super precise cross-cuts. I made
> a sled and use the TS for accurate cross-cuts. Like to within .005 or
> better.
>
><SNIP>
Where did you get your information concerning the accuracy of the slider vs.
non-slider? Did you measure it, or simply parrot some information that you
read somewhere? I have a 12" Dewalt SCMS and a Dewalt 12" CMS and have done
a bunch of tests. When the saws are adjusted properly there is zero
difference in the accuracy of the cut.
In my opinion the biggest differences in the two saws is that the SCMS can
cut wider pieces, but it also takes a lot more room away from the wall.
Bob McBreen
I use the fence with a 1" aux fence to set the length. when the board
is cut, it is not in contact with either fence. that would be stupid.
the aux fence is short and is placed towards the operator's end of the
main fence. slide the work piece across the sled, up against the aux
fence. move forward and then you clear the aux fence before the blade
contacts the workplace. very elegant. quick. super accurate.
what I originally mentioned in this thread (to paraphrase myself) is
that a non slider is more accurate than a slider, but not accurate
enough for my tastes, except for less demanding work.
dave
dave
RWM wrote:
> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>as long as YOU are happy with the accuracy that's all that matters. I
>>don't even use my Dewalt CMS for precise cross-cuts. I use a sled. By
>>using a moving blade and the Bies fence I can quickly cut a number of
>>boards to exact length and the cut is cleaner than what comes off my
>>Dewalt, even using an 80 tooth blade. A moving WWII gives a better cut
>>than the 80 Dewalt. Plus the DeWalt is thin kerf and it WILL flex when
>>cutting wider boards, even those that aren't very thick, and YES, even
>>if I go pretty slowly. Take a straight edge to a 6" board (baltic birch
>>comes to mind) cut on a non-slider, using a thin kerf blade, and look at
>>the bow in the cut. I suppose if I slow WAAAY down so that it takes
>>forever to get the blade through, the cut would be straight. I'm not
>>that patient. I'm also not forcing it; after cutting too fast, I slowed
>>down, figuring the cuts would be acceptable; they weren't and that day I
>>built a sled.
>>
>>I stand by the statement that the slider is less accurate. Read up on
>>them. I don't really care how YOU 'feel' about yours, I've observed
>>them and wouldn't buy one for precision work. Would I buy one if I was
>>a contractor framing a house. Yeah!
>>
>
>
> You seem to have an interesting way of non answering. The topic was sliding
> miter saws vs. non-sliding miter saws, not miter saws vs. cross cut sleds on
> a table saw. My question was if you had measured the accuracy difference,
> or if you were parroting something that you had read. From your answer it
> is pretty clear that you have read about the accuracy of sliding miter saws,
> and you have measured the accuracy of the cut that you get with your
> non-slider, but it sounds like you have never investigated the difference
> between sliders and non-sliders. I wonder why you felt you had information
> to add to the slider vs. non-slider comparison.
>
> I also don't understand the following:
>
> "I use a sled. By using a moving blade and the Bies fence I can quickly cut
> a number of boards to exact length."
>
> Are you using a sled, the fence, or both to cross cut?
>
> Bob McBreen
>
>