All this talk of edge glue joints and glue starvation and clamping
pressure and blah, blah, blah....
SWMBO had a request so I needed to do a quick panel glue-up.
Just two 7" poplar boards edge joined for some little side table thingie
that wimenfolk like. I don't know, I just make sawdust.
So anyway, I just wanted to put in the very minimum effort to show how
just a table saw can do what you need. Also, to show how little glue is
needed (I actually STILL used too much) and how little clamping pressure
and time are needed with modern PVA glues.
The first 2 pictures shows *one* technique (I have several that use the
TS) for putting a straight edge on a rough-sawn board. Once you have
one straight edge-- flip and repeat and you have parallel straight edges.
3rd pic shows a thin covering of glue on each edge. Again, I still
think I used to much as can be seen in the squeeze-out in the following
2 pics.
The next 2 pics show how strong a glue joint is after only a couple
hours in the clamps. Spoiler alert! The wood breaks, not the glue.
The last pic shows the stained panel and how tight and imperceptible the
joint is.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pmyWHV7ANvFek7b62
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> All this talk of edge glue joints and glue starvation and clamping
> pressure and blah, blah, blah....
> SWMBO had a request so I needed to do a quick panel glue-up.
> Just two 7" poplar boards edge joined for some little side table thingie
> that wimenfolk like. I don't know, I just make sawdust.
>
> So anyway, I just wanted to put in the very minimum effort to show how
> just a table saw can do what you need. Also, to show how little glue is
> needed (I actually STILL used too much) and how little clamping pressure
> and time are needed with modern PVA glues.
>
> The first 2 pictures shows *one* technique (I have several that use the
> TS) for putting a straight edge on a rough-sawn board. Once you have
> one straight edge-- flip and repeat and you have parallel straight edges.
>
> 3rd pic shows a thin covering of glue on each edge. Again, I still
> think I used to much as can be seen in the squeeze-out in the following
> 2 pics.
>
> The next 2 pics show how strong a glue joint is after only a couple
> hours in the clamps. Spoiler alert! The wood breaks, not the glue.
>
> The last pic shows the stained panel and how tight and imperceptible the
> joint is.
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/pmyWHV7ANvFek7b62
>
>
You know, Jerry, the inventor of the Dubby sled uses masking tape to clamp
the sides of small boxes together while the glue dries. If your Slye
edges are true you do not need a lot of pressure.
On 1/16/2018 11:02 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/16/18 10:31 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/16/2018 10:21 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 1/16/18 6:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 1:41:18 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> All this talk of edge glue joints and glue starvation and
>>>>> clamping pressure and blah, blah, blah.... SWMBO had a request
>>>>> so I needed to do a quick panel glue-up. Just two 7" poplar
>>>>> boards edge joined for some little side table thingie that
>>>>> wimenfolk like. I don't know, I just make sawdust.
>>>>>
>>>>> So anyway, I just wanted to put in the very minimum effort to
>>>>> show how just a table saw can do what you need. Also, to show
>>>>> how little glue is needed (I actually STILL used too much) and
>>>>> how little clamping pressure and time are needed with modern
>>>>> PVA glues.
>>>>>
>>>>> The first 2 pictures shows *one* technique (I have several that
>>>>> use the TS) for putting a straight edge on a rough-sawn board.
>>>>> Once you have one straight edge-- flip and repeat and you have
>>>>> parallel straight edges.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3rd pic shows a thin covering of glue on each edge. Again, I still
>>>>> think I used to much as can be seen in the squeeze-out in
>>>>> the following 2 pics.
>>>>>
>>>>> The next 2 pics show how strong a glue joint is after only a couple
>>>>> hours in the clamps. Spoiler alert! The wood breaks,
>>>>> not the glue.
>>>>>
>>>>> The last pic shows the stained panel and how tight and
>>>>> imperceptible the joint is.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/pmyWHV7ANvFek7b62
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for that. I'd agree, too much glue.
>>>>
>>>> Nice simple jig for creating a straight edge. Is that a Diablo
>>>> blade? Which style?
>>>>
>>>> I switched out my freshly sharpened 24 tooth rip blade for a
>>>> freshly sharpened 40 tooth Diablo general purpose and got a much
>>>> smoother rip. I'll save the 24 tooth for rough stuff.
>>>>
>>>
>>> *Full* kerf, Freud Glue Line Rip blade.
>>> <http://www.freudtools.com/products/product/LM74R010>
>>>
>>> I'm one to make sure there's an even coat of glue across the
>>> surface of the wood to be joined. Some guys just squirt a thin
>>> line and let the glue spread out and cover when the two pieces are
>>> pushed together. Not sure that always works, but hey it's still
>>> probably enough.
>>
>> If you don't spread the glue to completely cover the surface, the
>> entire surface might not get covered when clamped, THAT is glue
>> starvation. I use one of those silicone brushes that WoodCraft
>> sells, Rockler too, to spread the bead on the surface. They clean
>> easily and if you forget to clean the glue off you can pull it off
>> after the glue dries.
>>
>> If yo simply squirt and go you really never learn how much is enough.
>> If you brush the bead you get really good at knowing how much to
>> apply.
>>
>
> Totally agree.
>
> I have those brushes and paddles, too, but I always end up just using my
> finger.
> I've just gotten very good and fast at swiping down an edge using my
> find, on the side with a little bend at the last knuckle. It acts like
> a plow and I can direct the flow of the glue. It also keeps the excess
> glue collected in a puddle in front of my finger, so any excess is
> picked up pretty clean at the end of the swipe.
>
> The still use the brushes and paddles for dados and rabbets.
>
>
Yeah, I got tired of cleaning glue off of my fingers and hands some time
ago.. LOL
On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 1:41:18 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> All this talk of edge glue joints and glue starvation and clamping
> pressure and blah, blah, blah....
> SWMBO had a request so I needed to do a quick panel glue-up.
> Just two 7" poplar boards edge joined for some little side table thingie
> that wimenfolk like. I don't know, I just make sawdust.
>
> So anyway, I just wanted to put in the very minimum effort to show how
> just a table saw can do what you need. Also, to show how little glue is
> needed (I actually STILL used too much) and how little clamping pressure
> and time are needed with modern PVA glues.
>
> The first 2 pictures shows *one* technique (I have several that use the
> TS) for putting a straight edge on a rough-sawn board. Once you have
> one straight edge-- flip and repeat and you have parallel straight edges.
>
> 3rd pic shows a thin covering of glue on each edge. Again, I still
> think I used to much as can be seen in the squeeze-out in the following
> 2 pics.
>
> The next 2 pics show how strong a glue joint is after only a couple
> hours in the clamps. Spoiler alert! The wood breaks, not the glue.
>
> The last pic shows the stained panel and how tight and imperceptible the
> joint is.
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/pmyWHV7ANvFek7b62
Thanks for that. I'd agree, too much glue.
Nice simple jig for creating a straight edge. Is that a Diablo blade? Which style?
I switched out my freshly sharpened 24 tooth rip blade for a freshly sharpened 40 tooth
Diablo general purpose and got a much smoother rip. I'll save the 24 tooth for rough stuff.
On 1/16/2018 10:37 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/16/18 8:31 AM, Leon wrote:
>> -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> All this talk of edge glue joints and glue starvation and clamping
>>> pressure and blah, blah, blah.... SWMBO had a request so I needed
>>> to do a quick panel glue-up. Just two 7" poplar boards edge joined
>>> for some little side table thingie that wimenfolk like. I don't
>>> know, I just make sawdust.
>>>
>>> So anyway, I just wanted to put in the very minimum effort to show
>>> how just a table saw can do what you need. Also, to show how
>>> little glue is needed (I actually STILL used too much) and how
>>> little clamping pressure and time are needed with modern PVA
>>> glues.
>>>
>>> The first 2 pictures shows *one* technique (I have several that use
>>> the TS) for putting a straight edge on a rough-sawn board. Once
>>> you have one straight edge-- flip and repeat and you have parallel
>>> straight edges.
>>>
>>> 3rd pic shows a thin covering of glue on each edge. Again, I
>>> still think I used to much as can be seen in the squeeze-out in the
>>> following 2 pics.
>>>
>>> The next 2 pics show how strong a glue joint is after only a
>>> couple hours in the clamps. Spoiler alert! The wood breaks, not
>>> the glue.
>>>
>>> The last pic shows the stained panel and how tight and
>>> imperceptible the joint is.
>>>
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/pmyWHV7ANvFek7b62
>>>
>>>
>>
>> You know, Jerry, the inventor of the Dubby sled uses masking tape to
>> clamp the sides of small boxes together while the glue dries.  If
>> your Slye edges are true you do not need a lot of pressure.
>>
>
> It's all very interesting to me and always has been a topic that piques
> my interest.
> I still don't know if I've ever seen a scientific guide to clamping
> pressure. You'd think it's been done and is out there, but I haven't
> seen it.
>
> The masking tape thing really has me curious. At some point, with
> masking tape, you have enough PSI on a small enough section to be as
> effective as a screw clamp.
>
> I used masking tape to glue plyboo edging on this cabinet.
> http://mikedrums.com/bamboo_veneer_clamp.jpg
> Those "bandy clamps" from Rockler certainly provide enough pressure.
>
> There comes a point with screw clamps where you have enough pressure for
> a properly glued joint and anything more is just compressing the wood or
> distorting it. I would argue that point is much sooner than most of us
> would believe.
>
> I think I may do a similar "experiment" with several glue-ups using the
> same wood but with less and less glue and less and less clamping pressure.
>
>
FWIW long glues ups usually have imperfect straight surfaces. There is
some degree of bend that you may not actually see. Easier to see if you
bring the long pieces together before applying glue and you see a gap
anywhere along the joint. Those type glue ups need the extra pressure to
squeeze the glue out. And I have never had one of those fail either.
The shorter, smaller, and flatter the surface the less pressure you need
to bring the surfaces together.
On 1/16/2018 12:43 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/16/18 12:13 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/16/2018 11:02 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 1/16/18 10:31 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 1/16/2018 10:21 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> On 1/16/18 6:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 1:41:18 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>> All this talk of edge glue joints and glue starvation and
>>>>>>> clamping pressure and blah, blah, blah.... SWMBO had a request
>>>>>>> so I needed to do a quick panel glue-up. Just two 7" poplar
>>>>>>> boards edge joined for some little side table thingie that
>>>>>>> wimenfolk like. I don't know, I just make sawdust.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So anyway, I just wanted to put in the very minimum effort to
>>>>>>> show how just a table saw can do what you need. Also, to show
>>>>>>> how little glue is needed (I actually STILL used too much) and
>>>>>>> how little clamping pressure and time are needed with modern
>>>>>>> PVA glues.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The first 2 pictures shows *one* technique (I have several that
>>>>>>> use the TS) for putting a straight edge on a rough-sawn board.
>>>>>>> Once you have one straight edge-- flip and repeat and you have
>>>>>>> parallel straight edges.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3rd pic shows a thin covering of glue on each edge. Again, I
>>>>>>> still think I used to much as can be seen in the squeeze-out in
>>>>>>> the following 2 pics.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The next 2 pics show how strong a glue joint is after only a
>>>>>>> couple hours in the clamps. Spoiler alert! The wood breaks,
>>>>>>> not the glue.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The last pic shows the stained panel and how tight and
>>>>>>> imperceptible the joint is.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/pmyWHV7ANvFek7b62
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for that. I'd agree, too much glue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nice simple jig for creating a straight edge. Is that a Diablo
>>>>>> blade? Which style?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I switched out my freshly sharpened 24 tooth rip blade for a
>>>>>> freshly sharpened 40 tooth Diablo general purpose and got a much
>>>>>> smoother rip. I'll save the 24 tooth for rough stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Full* kerf, Freud Glue Line Rip blade.
>>>>> <http://www.freudtools.com/products/product/LM74R010>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm one to make sure there's an even coat of glue across the
>>>>> surface of the wood to be joined. Some guys just squirt a thin
>>>>> line and let the glue spread out and cover when the two pieces are
>>>>> pushed together. Not sure that always works, but hey it's still
>>>>> probably enough.
>>>>
>>>> If you don't spread the glue to completely cover the surface, the
>>>> entire surface might not get covered when clamped, THAT is glue
>>>> starvation. I use one of those silicone brushes that WoodCraft
>>>> sells, Rockler too, to spread the bead on the surface. They clean
>>>> easily and if you forget to clean the glue off you can pull it off
>>>> after the glue dries.
>>>>
>>>> If yo simply squirt and go you really never learn how much is enough.
>>>> If you brush the bead you get really good at knowing how much to
>>>> apply.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Totally agree.
>>>
>>> I have those brushes and paddles, too, but I always end up just using my
>>> finger.
>>> I've just gotten very good and fast at swiping down an edge using my
>>> find, on the side with a little bend at the last knuckle. It acts like
>>> a plow and I can direct the flow of the glue. It also keeps the excess
>>> glue collected in a puddle in front of my finger, so any excess is
>>> picked up pretty clean at the end of the swipe.
>>>
>>> The still use the brushes and paddles for dados and rabbets.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, I got tired of cleaning glue off of my fingers and hands some
>> time ago.. LOL
>
> HANDS!? Now, I *know* you're using too much glue. :-p
> Half a paper towel does it me.
>
>
Hell, if I had a paper towels handy it would be stuck to me somewhere
and likely look like a piece of toilet paper stuck to my back side. ;~)
On 1/16/2018 10:21 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/16/18 6:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 1:41:18 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> All this talk of edge glue joints and glue starvation and clamping
>>> pressure and blah, blah, blah.... SWMBO had a request so I needed
>>> to do a quick panel glue-up. Just two 7" poplar boards edge joined
>>> for some little side table thingie that wimenfolk like. I don't
>>> know, I just make sawdust.
>>>
>>> So anyway, I just wanted to put in the very minimum effort to show
>>> how just a table saw can do what you need. Also, to show how
>>> little glue is needed (I actually STILL used too much) and how
>>> little clamping pressure and time are needed with modern PVA
>>> glues.
>>>
>>> The first 2 pictures shows *one* technique (I have several that use
>>> the TS) for putting a straight edge on a rough-sawn board. Once
>>> you have one straight edge-- flip and repeat and you have parallel
>>> straight edges.
>>>
>>> 3rd pic shows a thin covering of glue on each edge. Again, I
>>> still think I used to much as can be seen in the squeeze-out in the
>>> following 2 pics.
>>>
>>> The next 2 pics show how strong a glue joint is after only a
>>> couple hours in the clamps. Spoiler alert! The wood breaks, not
>>> the glue.
>>>
>>> The last pic shows the stained panel and how tight and
>>> imperceptible the joint is.
>>>
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/pmyWHV7ANvFek7b62
>>
>> Thanks for that. I'd agree, too much glue.
>>
>> Nice simple jig for creating a straight edge. Is that a Diablo blade?
>> Which style?
>>
>> I switched out my freshly sharpened 24 tooth rip blade for a freshly
>> sharpened 40 tooth Diablo general purpose and got a much smoother
>> rip. I'll save the 24 tooth for rough stuff.
>>
>
> *Full* kerf, Freud Glue Line Rip blade.
> <http://www.freudtools.com/products/product/LM74R010>
>
> I'm one to make sure there's an even coat of glue across the surface of
> the wood to be joined. Some guys just squirt a thin line and let the
> glue spread out and cover when the two pieces are pushed together. Not
> sure that always works, but hey it's still probably enough.
If you don't spread the glue to completely cover the surface, the entire
surface might not get covered when clamped, THAT is glue starvation. I
use one of those silicone brushes that WoodCraft sells, Rockler too, to
spread the bead on the surface. They clean easily and if you forget to
clean the glue off you can pull it off after the glue dries.
If yo simply squirt and go you really never learn how much is enough.
If you brush the bead you get really good at knowing how much to apply.
>
> When you spread out glue on an edge, it's almost impossible to *not* get
> too much glue in the joint. I've seen a LOT more squeeze-out in other
> guys' projects, including my out.
>
> I guess my goal is to get some perceivable squeeze-out with no bubbles.
>  If you can't get that, then next best is no dripping. With this
> glue-up, I got bubbles without drips.
>
>
On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 11:32:07 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 1/16/2018 10:21 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> > On 1/16/18 6:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 1:41:18 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> >>> All this talk of edge glue joints and glue starvation and clamping=20
> >>> pressure and blah, blah, blah.... SWMBO had a request so I needed
> >>> to do a quick panel glue-up. Just two 7" poplar boards edge joined
> >>> for some little side table thingie that wimenfolk like.=C2=A0 I don't
> >>> know, I just make sawdust.
> >>>
> >>> So anyway, I just wanted to put in the very minimum effort to show
> >>> how just a table saw can do what you need.=C2=A0 Also, to show how
> >>> little glue is needed (I actually STILL used too much) and how
> >>> little clamping pressure and time are needed with modern PVA
> >>> glues.
> >>>
> >>> The first 2 pictures shows *one* technique (I have several that use
> >>> the TS) for putting a straight edge on a rough-sawn board.=C2=A0 Once
> >>> you have one straight edge-- flip and repeat and you have parallel
> >>> straight edges.
> >>>
> >>> 3rd pic shows a thin covering of glue on each edge.=C2=A0 Again, I
> >>> still think I used to much as can be seen in the squeeze-out in the
> >>> following 2 pics.
> >>>
> >>> The next 2 pics show how strong a glue joint is after only a
> >>> couple hours in the clamps.=C2=A0 Spoiler alert!=C2=A0 The wood break=
s, not
> >>> the glue.
> >>>
> >>> The last pic shows the stained panel and how tight and
> >>> imperceptible the joint is.
> >>>
> >>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/pmyWHV7ANvFek7b62
> >>
> >> Thanks for that. I'd agree, too much glue.
> >>
> >> Nice simple jig for creating a straight edge. Is that a Diablo blade?
> >> Which style?
> >>
> >> I switched out my freshly sharpened 24 tooth rip blade for a freshly
> >> sharpened 40 tooth Diablo general=C2=A0 purpose and got a much smoothe=
r
> >> rip. I'll save the 24 tooth for rough stuff.
> >>
> >=20
> > *Full* kerf, Freud Glue Line Rip blade.
> > <http://www.freudtools.com/products/product/LM74R010>
> >=20
> > I'm one to make sure there's an even coat of glue across the surface of
> > the wood to be joined.=C2=A0 Some guys just squirt a thin line and let =
the
> > glue spread out and cover when the two pieces are pushed together.=C2=
=A0 Not
> > sure that always works, but hey it's still probably enough.
>=20
> If you don't spread the glue to completely cover the surface, the entire=
=20
> surface might not get covered when clamped, THAT is glue starvation. I=
=20
> use one of those silicone brushes that WoodCraft sells, Rockler too, to=
=20
> spread the bead on the surface. They clean easily and if you forget to=
=20
> clean the glue off you can pull it off after the glue dries.
>=20
> If yo simply squirt and go you really never learn how much is enough.=20
> If you brush the bead you get really good at knowing how much to apply.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >=20
> > When you spread out glue on an edge, it's almost impossible to *not* ge=
t
> > too much glue in the joint.=C2=A0 I've seen a LOT more squeeze-out in o=
ther
> > guys' projects, including my out.
> >=20
> > I guess my goal is to get some perceivable squeeze-out with no bubbles.
> > =C2=A0If you can't get that, then next best is no dripping.=C2=A0 With=
this
> > glue-up, I got bubbles without drips.
> >=20
> >
I almost always use a small, soft brayer with PVA. It's quick, effective a=
nd rinses right off easily. You sort of get the hang of how thick a bead t=
o lay down for proper coverage depending on thickness and material.
JP
"-MIKE-" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>All this talk of edge glue joints and glue starvation and clamping pressure
>and blah, blah, blah....
You forgot to mention the oxidized edge vs. the fresh edge; spring joints
vs. flat; jointer edge vs. sawn edge vs. hand-planed edge vs. sanded edge;
hide glue vs. poly... you get the idea! LOL
On 1/16/18 6:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 1:41:18 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> All this talk of edge glue joints and glue starvation and clamping
>> pressure and blah, blah, blah.... SWMBO had a request so I needed
>> to do a quick panel glue-up. Just two 7" poplar boards edge joined
>> for some little side table thingie that wimenfolk like. I don't
>> know, I just make sawdust.
>>
>> So anyway, I just wanted to put in the very minimum effort to show
>> how just a table saw can do what you need. Also, to show how
>> little glue is needed (I actually STILL used too much) and how
>> little clamping pressure and time are needed with modern PVA
>> glues.
>>
>> The first 2 pictures shows *one* technique (I have several that use
>> the TS) for putting a straight edge on a rough-sawn board. Once
>> you have one straight edge-- flip and repeat and you have parallel
>> straight edges.
>>
>> 3rd pic shows a thin covering of glue on each edge. Again, I
>> still think I used to much as can be seen in the squeeze-out in the
>> following 2 pics.
>>
>> The next 2 pics show how strong a glue joint is after only a
>> couple hours in the clamps. Spoiler alert! The wood breaks, not
>> the glue.
>>
>> The last pic shows the stained panel and how tight and
>> imperceptible the joint is.
>>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/pmyWHV7ANvFek7b62
>
> Thanks for that. I'd agree, too much glue.
>
> Nice simple jig for creating a straight edge. Is that a Diablo blade?
> Which style?
>
> I switched out my freshly sharpened 24 tooth rip blade for a freshly
> sharpened 40 tooth Diablo general purpose and got a much smoother
> rip. I'll save the 24 tooth for rough stuff.
>
*Full* kerf, Freud Glue Line Rip blade.
<http://www.freudtools.com/products/product/LM74R010>
I'm one to make sure there's an even coat of glue across the surface of
the wood to be joined. Some guys just squirt a thin line and let the
glue spread out and cover when the two pieces are pushed together. Not
sure that always works, but hey it's still probably enough.
When you spread out glue on an edge, it's almost impossible to *not* get
too much glue in the joint. I've seen a LOT more squeeze-out in other
guys' projects, including my out.
I guess my goal is to get some perceivable squeeze-out with no bubbles.
If you can't get that, then next best is no dripping. With this
glue-up, I got bubbles without drips.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 1/16/18 8:31 AM, Leon wrote:
> -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>> All this talk of edge glue joints and glue starvation and clamping
>> pressure and blah, blah, blah.... SWMBO had a request so I needed
>> to do a quick panel glue-up. Just two 7" poplar boards edge joined
>> for some little side table thingie that wimenfolk like. I don't
>> know, I just make sawdust.
>>
>> So anyway, I just wanted to put in the very minimum effort to show
>> how just a table saw can do what you need. Also, to show how
>> little glue is needed (I actually STILL used too much) and how
>> little clamping pressure and time are needed with modern PVA
>> glues.
>>
>> The first 2 pictures shows *one* technique (I have several that use
>> the TS) for putting a straight edge on a rough-sawn board. Once
>> you have one straight edge-- flip and repeat and you have parallel
>> straight edges.
>>
>> 3rd pic shows a thin covering of glue on each edge. Again, I
>> still think I used to much as can be seen in the squeeze-out in the
>> following 2 pics.
>>
>> The next 2 pics show how strong a glue joint is after only a
>> couple hours in the clamps. Spoiler alert! The wood breaks, not
>> the glue.
>>
>> The last pic shows the stained panel and how tight and
>> imperceptible the joint is.
>>
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/pmyWHV7ANvFek7b62
>>
>>
>
> You know, Jerry, the inventor of the Dubby sled uses masking tape to
> clamp the sides of small boxes together while the glue dries. If
> your Slye edges are true you do not need a lot of pressure.
>
It's all very interesting to me and always has been a topic that piques
my interest.
I still don't know if I've ever seen a scientific guide to clamping
pressure. You'd think it's been done and is out there, but I haven't
seen it.
The masking tape thing really has me curious. At some point, with
masking tape, you have enough PSI on a small enough section to be as
effective as a screw clamp.
I used masking tape to glue plyboo edging on this cabinet.
http://mikedrums.com/bamboo_veneer_clamp.jpg
Those "bandy clamps" from Rockler certainly provide enough pressure.
There comes a point with screw clamps where you have enough pressure for
a properly glued joint and anything more is just compressing the wood or
distorting it. I would argue that point is much sooner than most of us
would believe.
I think I may do a similar "experiment" with several glue-ups using the
same wood but with less and less glue and less and less clamping pressure.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 1/16/18 10:31 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/16/2018 10:21 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/16/18 6:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 1:41:18 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> All this talk of edge glue joints and glue starvation and
>>>> clamping pressure and blah, blah, blah.... SWMBO had a request
>>>> so I needed to do a quick panel glue-up. Just two 7" poplar
>>>> boards edge joined for some little side table thingie that
>>>> wimenfolk like. I don't know, I just make sawdust.
>>>>
>>>> So anyway, I just wanted to put in the very minimum effort to
>>>> show how just a table saw can do what you need. Also, to show
>>>> how little glue is needed (I actually STILL used too much) and
>>>> how little clamping pressure and time are needed with modern
>>>> PVA glues.
>>>>
>>>> The first 2 pictures shows *one* technique (I have several that
>>>> use the TS) for putting a straight edge on a rough-sawn board.
>>>> Once you have one straight edge-- flip and repeat and you have
>>>> parallel straight edges.
>>>>
>>>> 3rd pic shows a thin covering of glue on each edge. Again, I
>>>> still think I used to much as can be seen in the squeeze-out in
>>>> the following 2 pics.
>>>>
>>>> The next 2 pics show how strong a glue joint is after only a
>>>> couple hours in the clamps. Spoiler alert! The wood breaks,
>>>> not the glue.
>>>>
>>>> The last pic shows the stained panel and how tight and
>>>> imperceptible the joint is.
>>>>
>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/pmyWHV7ANvFek7b62
>>>
>>> Thanks for that. I'd agree, too much glue.
>>>
>>> Nice simple jig for creating a straight edge. Is that a Diablo
>>> blade? Which style?
>>>
>>> I switched out my freshly sharpened 24 tooth rip blade for a
>>> freshly sharpened 40 tooth Diablo general purpose and got a much
>>> smoother rip. I'll save the 24 tooth for rough stuff.
>>>
>>
>> *Full* kerf, Freud Glue Line Rip blade.
>> <http://www.freudtools.com/products/product/LM74R010>
>>
>> I'm one to make sure there's an even coat of glue across the
>> surface of the wood to be joined. Some guys just squirt a thin
>> line and let the glue spread out and cover when the two pieces are
>> pushed together. Not sure that always works, but hey it's still
>> probably enough.
>
> If you don't spread the glue to completely cover the surface, the
> entire surface might not get covered when clamped, THAT is glue
> starvation. I use one of those silicone brushes that WoodCraft
> sells, Rockler too, to spread the bead on the surface. They clean
> easily and if you forget to clean the glue off you can pull it off
> after the glue dries.
>
> If yo simply squirt and go you really never learn how much is enough.
> If you brush the bead you get really good at knowing how much to
> apply.
>
Totally agree.
I have those brushes and paddles, too, but I always end up just using my
finger.
I've just gotten very good and fast at swiping down an edge using my
find, on the side with a little bend at the last knuckle. It acts like
a plow and I can direct the flow of the glue. It also keeps the excess
glue collected in a puddle in front of my finger, so any excess is
picked up pretty clean at the end of the swipe.
The still use the brushes and paddles for dados and rabbets.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 1/16/18 10:44 AM, JayPique wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 11:32:07 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/16/2018 10:21 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>
>>> When you spread out glue on an edge, it's almost impossible to
>>> *not* get too much glue in the joint. I've seen a LOT more
>>> squeeze-out in other guys' projects, including my out.
>>>
>>> I guess my goal is to get some perceivable squeeze-out with no
>>> bubbles. If you can't get that, then next best is no dripping.
>>> With this glue-up, I got bubbles without drips.
>>>
>>>
>
> I almost always use a small, soft brayer with PVA. It's quick,
> effective and rinses right off easily. You sort of get the hang of
> how thick a bead to lay down for proper coverage depending on
> thickness and material.
>
> JP
>
Good idea. I may have to try that sometime.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 1/16/18 12:13 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/16/2018 11:02 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/16/18 10:31 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 1/16/2018 10:21 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 1/16/18 6:39 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, January 16, 2018 at 1:41:18 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>> All this talk of edge glue joints and glue starvation and
>>>>>> clamping pressure and blah, blah, blah.... SWMBO had a request
>>>>>> so I needed to do a quick panel glue-up. Just two 7" poplar
>>>>>> boards edge joined for some little side table thingie that
>>>>>> wimenfolk like. I don't know, I just make sawdust.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So anyway, I just wanted to put in the very minimum effort to
>>>>>> show how just a table saw can do what you need. Also, to show
>>>>>> how little glue is needed (I actually STILL used too much) and
>>>>>> how little clamping pressure and time are needed with modern
>>>>>> PVA glues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The first 2 pictures shows *one* technique (I have several that
>>>>>> use the TS) for putting a straight edge on a rough-sawn board.
>>>>>> Once you have one straight edge-- flip and repeat and you have
>>>>>> parallel straight edges.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3rd pic shows a thin covering of glue on each edge. Again, I
>>>>>> still think I used to much as can be seen in the squeeze-out in
>>>>>> the following 2 pics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The next 2 pics show how strong a glue joint is after only a
>>>>>> couple hours in the clamps. Spoiler alert! The wood breaks,
>>>>>> not the glue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The last pic shows the stained panel and how tight and
>>>>>> imperceptible the joint is.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/pmyWHV7ANvFek7b62
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for that. I'd agree, too much glue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nice simple jig for creating a straight edge. Is that a Diablo
>>>>> blade? Which style?
>>>>>
>>>>> I switched out my freshly sharpened 24 tooth rip blade for a
>>>>> freshly sharpened 40 tooth Diablo general purpose and got a much
>>>>> smoother rip. I'll save the 24 tooth for rough stuff.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Full* kerf, Freud Glue Line Rip blade.
>>>> <http://www.freudtools.com/products/product/LM74R010>
>>>>
>>>> I'm one to make sure there's an even coat of glue across the
>>>> surface of the wood to be joined. Some guys just squirt a thin
>>>> line and let the glue spread out and cover when the two pieces are
>>>> pushed together. Not sure that always works, but hey it's still
>>>> probably enough.
>>>
>>> If you don't spread the glue to completely cover the surface, the
>>> entire surface might not get covered when clamped, THAT is glue
>>> starvation. I use one of those silicone brushes that WoodCraft
>>> sells, Rockler too, to spread the bead on the surface. They clean
>>> easily and if you forget to clean the glue off you can pull it off
>>> after the glue dries.
>>>
>>> If yo simply squirt and go you really never learn how much is enough.
>>> If you brush the bead you get really good at knowing how much to
>>> apply.
>>>
>>
>> Totally agree.
>>
>> I have those brushes and paddles, too, but I always end up just using my
>> finger.
>> I've just gotten very good and fast at swiping down an edge using my
>> find, on the side with a little bend at the last knuckle. It acts like
>> a plow and I can direct the flow of the glue. It also keeps the excess
>> glue collected in a puddle in front of my finger, so any excess is
>> picked up pretty clean at the end of the swipe.
>>
>> The still use the brushes and paddles for dados and rabbets.
>>
>>
>
> Yeah, I got tired of cleaning glue off of my fingers and hands some time
> ago.. LOL
HANDS!? Now, I *know* you're using too much glue. :-p
Half a paper towel does it me.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 1/16/18 12:20 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/16/2018 10:37 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/16/18 8:31 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> All this talk of edge glue joints and glue starvation and
>>>> clamping pressure and blah, blah, blah.... SWMBO had a request
>>>> so I needed to do a quick panel glue-up. Just two 7" poplar
>>>> boards edge joined for some little side table thingie that
>>>> wimenfolk like. I don't know, I just make sawdust.
>>>>
>>>> So anyway, I just wanted to put in the very minimum effort to
>>>> show how just a table saw can do what you need. Also, to show
>>>> how little glue is needed (I actually STILL used too much) and
>>>> how little clamping pressure and time are needed with modern
>>>> PVA glues.
>>>>
>>>> The first 2 pictures shows *one* technique (I have several that
>>>> use the TS) for putting a straight edge on a rough-sawn board.
>>>> Once you have one straight edge-- flip and repeat and you have
>>>> parallel straight edges.
>>>>
>>>> 3rd pic shows a thin covering of glue on each edge. Again, I
>>>> still think I used to much as can be seen in the squeeze-out in
>>>> the following 2 pics.
>>>>
>>>> The next 2 pics show how strong a glue joint is after only a
>>>> couple hours in the clamps. Spoiler alert! The wood breaks,
>>>> not the glue.
>>>>
>>>> The last pic shows the stained panel and how tight and
>>>> imperceptible the joint is.
>>>>
>>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/pmyWHV7ANvFek7b62
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> You know, Jerry, the inventor of the Dubby sled uses masking tape
>>> to clamp the sides of small boxes together while the glue dries.
>>> If your Slye edges are true you do not need a lot of pressure.
>>>
>>
>> It's all very interesting to me and always has been a topic that
>> piques my interest. I still don't know if I've ever seen a
>> scientific guide to clamping pressure. You'd think it's been done
>> and is out there, but I haven't seen it.
>>
>> The masking tape thing really has me curious. At some point, with
>> masking tape, you have enough PSI on a small enough section to be
>> as effective as a screw clamp.
>>
>> I used masking tape to glue plyboo edging on this cabinet.
>> http://mikedrums.com/bamboo_veneer_clamp.jpg Those "bandy clamps"
>> from Rockler certainly provide enough pressure.
>>
>> There comes a point with screw clamps where you have enough
>> pressure for a properly glued joint and anything more is just
>> compressing the wood or distorting it. I would argue that point is
>> much sooner than most of us would believe.
>>
>> I think I may do a similar "experiment" with several glue-ups using
>> the same wood but with less and less glue and less and less
>> clamping pressure.
>>
>>
> FWIW long glues ups usually have imperfect straight surfaces. There
> is some degree of bend that you may not actually see. Easier to see
> if you bring the long pieces together before applying glue and you
> see a gap anywhere along the joint. Those type glue ups need the
> extra pressure to squeeze the glue out. And I have never had one of
> those fail either. The shorter, smaller, and flatter the surface the
> less pressure you need to bring the surfaces together.
That is very true. Another thing to consider and a big reason it always
seems to require more clamping pressure for longer panels. Good point.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com