This question is slightly off topic. But I need it for a cabinet.
I've seen this in the past - but cannot remember how to do it.
There is a way to make new brass components look like antique brass.
The component is put into a chemical and rinsed off, or slightly
rubbed with steel wool during the process. I think the chemical was
muriatic acid.
Just wondering if anyone knows what chemical is used and what the
procedure was.
Pat
Fri, Dec 3, 2004, 10:03am [email protected] (SawDust) wonders:
<snip> Just wondering if anyone knows what chemical is used and what the
procedure was.
In the Army, you just needed to polish your brass, get the lacquer
off, and use Brasso. Then not polish it for a day or two, and instant
antique.
JOAT
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind dont
matter, and those who matter dont mind.
- Dr Seuss
Hi Andy,
I know Brasso well. Didn't realize ammonia was in Brasso.
As for recipe #3 "you totally lost me". Is this in a cook book
somewhere..?
Pat
On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 01:19:14 +0000, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 14:01:17 -0500, [email protected] (J T)
>wrote:
>
>> In the Army, you just needed to polish your brass, get the lacquer
>>off, and use Brasso. Then not polish it for a day or two, and instant
>>antique.
>
>A significant component of Brasso is ammonia. What you're seeing isn't
>too far from recipe #3
On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 14:01:17 -0500, [email protected] (J T)
wrote:
> In the Army, you just needed to polish your brass, get the lacquer
>off, and use Brasso. Then not polish it for a day or two, and instant
>antique.
A significant component of Brasso is ammonia. What you're seeing isn't
too far from recipe #3
Sun, Dec 5, 2004, 1:19am (EST+5) [email protected] (Andy=A0Dingley)
says:
A significant component of Brasso is ammonia. What you're seeing isn't
too far from recipe #3
I don/t recall ever reading the ingredients. Still, it'd be better
than screwing around with ammonia, in my book.
JOAT
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind dont
matter, and those who matter dont mind.
- Dr Seuss
"J T" wrote in message
> In the Army, you just needed to polish your brass, get the lacquer
> off, and use Brasso. Then not polish it for a day or two, and instant
> antique.
Being more or less color blind, I almost learned to recognize "green" in the
Army, the above included.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/06/04
SawDust wrote:
>
> This question is slightly off topic. But I need it for a cabinet.
>
> I've seen this in the past - but cannot remember how to do it.
>
> There is a way to make new brass components look like antique brass.
> The component is put into a chemical and rinsed off, or slightly
> rubbed with steel wool during the process. I think the chemical was
> muriatic acid.
>
> Just wondering if anyone knows what chemical is used and what the
> procedure was.
>
> Pat
Muriatic acid is just dilute hyrdochloric acid. What you're
looking for is something like "liver of sulphur", though there
are other things that will turn sterling silver, brass and
bronze dark brown - almost black. If you have a lapidary
place in town they'll have what you need. It's a surface
treatment so it will rub off with wear. Wire brush the
metal to give the patina some low spots to sit in.
charlie b
On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 04:44:20 -0500, SawDust <[email protected]>
wrote:
>As for recipe #3 "you totally lost me". Is this in a cook book
>somewhere..?
In the huge great posting I made on this thread a couple of days ago ?
http://groups.google.com/groups?lr=&c2coff=1&selm=dg21r0datfrhd6e2udenumv7o4ke0cdvv9%404ax.com
On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 04:44:20 -0500, SawDust <[email protected]>
calmly ranted:
>
>Hi Andy,
>
>
>I know Brasso well. Didn't realize ammonia was in Brasso.
Hose some of that sawdust out of your nose, Pat. You cannot
miss it.
>As for recipe #3 "you totally lost me". Is this in a cook book
>somewhere..?
Yeah, Andy, whose recipe?
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On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 10:03:36 -0500, SawDust <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>This question is slightly off topic. But I need it for a cabinet.
>
>I've seen this in the past - but cannot remember how to do it.
>
>There is a way to make new brass components look like antique brass.
>The component is put into a chemical and rinsed off, or slightly
>rubbed with steel wool during the process. I think the chemical was
>muriatic acid.
>
>Just wondering if anyone knows what chemical is used and what the
>procedure was.
>
>Pat
>
there are a bunch of different kinds of brass. they all act
differently. some of the patina recipes call for fuming in ammonia to
get blue-green.
"SawDust" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> There is a way to make new brass components look like antique brass.
> The component is put into a chemical and rinsed off, or slightly
> rubbed with steel wool during the process. I think the chemical was
> muriatic acid.
>
> Just wondering if anyone knows what chemical is used and what the
> procedure was.
This is just one of many sites on the subject. If you need more or sources
of chemicals just beep.
http://w3.uwyo.edu/~metal/patinas.html
Larry
--
Lawrence L'Hote
Columbia, MO
http://home.mchsi.com/~larrylhote
On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 10:03:36 -0500, SawDust <[email protected]>
wrote:
>There is a way to make new brass components look like antique brass.
What does "antique brass" look like ? You trying to age it just a
little, or really change the colour ?
You need to experiment on all these patina recipes, and watch your
technique. They're very sensitive to metal composition, surface
cleanliness and precise details of the technique like concentration
and timing. Some recipes require vigorous boiling for an hour or so,
and the acidic fumes aren't a good idea in a kitchen. Often the same
recipe gives a range of colours from either acid or alkline solutions.
For repeatability you'll need a pH meter or test papers.
Also be careful of finishing techniques afterwards, particularly to
neutralise whatever you have used (especially with chlorides).
Otherwise a beautiful patina might develop into ugly lurid green
crystals.
A simple source for them (mainly the heavy duty patinas) is to get
made-up solutions from suppliers to the stained glass trade or
sculptors. The chemicals you need are usually metal salts that aren't
easy to find and are very difficult to buy in a sensible quantity.
You'll find them in a school-level chemistry laboratory, but not often
in industry (except metal finishing).
_The_ book on colouring non-ferrous metals is "The Colouring,
Bronzing, and Patination of Metals"
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0823007626/codesmiths-20>
but it's expensive.
Tim McCreight's "Color on Metal" is cheaper and more fun to read, but
less encyclopedic
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1893164063/codesmiths-20>
Don't expect to achieve much with just the commonplace workshop acids.
If you use them dilute they're more likely to clean things. If you
have them concentrated on brass, you're likely to preferentially
dissolve the zinc and turn it a coppery pink. Putting a strong colour
on brass needs salts of something other than copper or zinc, so that
needs adding metal salts from your solution. Some of these, like
copper acetate or nickel sulphate can be significantly toxic.
You might (possibly) be able to find a Japanese patination agent
called rokusho. This is an intermediate step for many varying patina
recipes, based on different recipes with household ingredients such as
vinegar or radish paste. It avoids shopping for a dozen different
chemistry lab compounds..
There are three favoured recipes for "antiques trade" patination. One
is darker, slow to use but quite easy, one is more authentic looking
(slightly greenish) but both need a mixture making up first. The last
is very simple, but has a slightly less authentic yellowish colour.
#1
copper sulphate 20g
zinc chloride 20g
Grind the ingredients in a pestle and mortar, then mix with water to a
paste. Brush on, allow to dry completely (at least 12 hours) then wash
off with water. Allow to dry for another 12 hours, then repeat as
necessary. It will then take a week to dry completely, during which
time the colour may be slightly affected by light. Then wax it.
#2
copper carbonate 45g
copper acetate 15g
ammonium chloride 15g
sodium chloride (salt) 15g
cream of tartar 15g
10% acetic acid (spirit vinegar) 120ml
Mix this all up in a large glass jar and stir. Stir every few hours
and allow a day or two before using. After a few days it can be stored
in a capped jar, but don't seal it tightly as it may still generate
some harmless gas.
If you're using vinegar, get some pickling vinegar which is usually
marked for concentration. Adjust the quantity accordingly. Varying
the acid content (between 1/4 and 4x these amounts) will vary the
colour. More acid is more yellow-orangey rather than brown.
You can substitute ammonium carbonate for the copper carbonate, which
gives a much darker and more greenish patina.
Apply the solution with a brush and work it in evenly and quickly. The
colour change takes minutes, while you're handling it, and can be
stopped by rinsing with water. Dry overnight and wax.
This process works on old brass, or on some modern cast brass. It's
sensitive to metal composition and doesn't work well on modern rolled
sheet brass.
#3
Take a sealable plastic box (Tupperware or similar) and 1/2 - 3/4 fill
it with planer or handplane shavings (not sawdust). Use a non-resinous
softwood, beech, maple or something inoccuous. Avoid darker or
tannin-rich timber. Ideally the box is transparent enough to let you
judge the colour.
Place your components into the shavings, and well separated from each
other. Tying them all to a length of baler twine will help later.
Then pour in a few teaspoonfuls of strong ammonia (.880 ammonia,
rather than 26%), taking care not to spill it directly onto the parts
and seal the lid. Working outdoors.in a full-face respirator is a
good idea here.
Now watch the colour changes. Shake the box gently to avoid shadowing
the parts by contact with the shavings. Don't splash ammonia onto the
metal - this is a gas process, not liquid.
After a few minutes, open the box and extract the parts. Shake the
shavings back into the box and re-seal it deal with later. Wash the
parts with water, dry them and finally wax them.
Dispose of the ammonia by dissolving it in an excess of water and
pouring it onto the garden or down the drain.
--
Smert' spamionam
Blame it on selective brain function. I now recall seeing your
original post. Not sure why I missed it. I must have been
browsing the NG's and sleeping at the same time.
Thanks for the URL. That was a big help.
Pat
On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 13:57:56 +0000, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 04:44:20 -0500, SawDust <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>As for recipe #3 "you totally lost me". Is this in a cook book
>>somewhere..?
>
>In the huge great posting I made on this thread a couple of days ago ?
>http://groups.google.com/groups?lr=&c2coff=1&selm=dg21r0datfrhd6e2udenumv7o4ke0cdvv9%404ax.com
Thanks Charlie...
Pat
On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 11:20:18 -0800, charlie b <[email protected]>
wrote:
>SawDust wrote:
>>
>> This question is slightly off topic. But I need it for a cabinet.
>>
>> I've seen this in the past - but cannot remember how to do it.
>>
>> There is a way to make new brass components look like antique brass.
>> The component is put into a chemical and rinsed off, or slightly
>> rubbed with steel wool during the process. I think the chemical was
>> muriatic acid.
>>
>> Just wondering if anyone knows what chemical is used and what the
>> procedure was.
>>
>> Pat
>
> Muriatic acid is just dilute hyrdochloric acid. What you're
> looking for is something like "liver of sulphur", though there
> are other things that will turn sterling silver, brass and
> bronze dark brown - almost black. If you have a lapidary
> place in town they'll have what you need. It's a surface
> treatment so it will rub off with wear. Wire brush the
> metal to give the patina some low spots to sit in.
>
> charlie b
That's different.. Never heard of that before...
On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 13:57:55 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 10:03:36 -0500, SawDust <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>This question is slightly off topic. But I need it for a cabinet.
>>
>>I've seen this in the past - but cannot remember how to do it.
>>
>>There is a way to make new brass components look like antique brass.
>>The component is put into a chemical and rinsed off, or slightly
>>rubbed with steel wool during the process. I think the chemical was
>>muriatic acid.
>>
>>Just wondering if anyone knows what chemical is used and what the
>>procedure was.
>>
>>Pat
>>
>
>
>there are a bunch of different kinds of brass. they all act
>differently. some of the patina recipes call for fuming in ammonia to
>get blue-green.