Fein Multimaster suggestion and a question.

Robatoy wrote:
> And as I am looking at those blades... is there any reason they can't
> be sharpened? Maybe not the bi-metal ones.. but the regular wood
> E-blades?
> Stick it in a sharpening vice... and use a fine tri-angular file? (I am
> seriously out of my league when it comes to things like sharpening, so
> bear with me.)

I can't imagine why not, unless the steel is A2 or something harder, in
which case you'd probably want to use diamond. How fine are the teeth?
If it's like a fine-tooth pull saw you'll really have some learning to
do!

JP

Hello,

Jay Pique kirjoitti:

> Robatoy wrote:
> > And as I am looking at those blades... is there any reason they can't
> > be sharpened? Maybe not the bi-metal ones.. but the regular wood
> > E-blades?
> > Stick it in a sharpening vice... and use a fine tri-angular file? (I am
> > seriously out of my league when it comes to things like sharpening, so
> > bear with me.)
>
> I can't imagine why not, unless the steel is A2 or something harder, in
> which case you'd probably want to use diamond. How fine are the teeth?
> If it's like a fine-tooth pull saw you'll really have some learning to
> do!
>
> JP

Check out this pic:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000223P4.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

The teeth look similar as in japanese cross-cut saws, and are possibly
impulse hardened. Sharpening of these is not yet beyond reach, but it
is much more difficult than with western style saws.

But when You combine that high machine speed of Multimaster with a thin
blade having slight tooth asymmetry and some loss of tooth set caused
by resharpening, and start sawing anything thicker than 1/4" or along a
straight line, I think there may appear problems. I do not know the
thing with Multimaster, but I've had similar kind of situation with
precision miniature table saw. I tried to resharpen this very thin
circular blade, and although I have reasonable experience and a
selection of very good tools, sturdy jigs'n'such and a lot of patience,
I ended up buying a new lot of expensive blades. It was just too time
consuming to get results adequate enough.

But I think You should try. It's a cool experiment. I think also that
it could be possible to reshape (actually remake) teeth as ripcut saw.

Like Jay said, why not and a fine quality file or diamond file should
do the thing. I would add there that You should construct a jig or
similar, where You can secure the blade and then You should assemble
tables or rails on both sides to ensure constant straight angle between
file and blade. For the file, kinda easiest way is to join small blocks
of wood or plastic on both ends of file so that file angle is supported
as straight while making the last effective pass between two sawteeth.

Regards,

Samu

One good link on sharpening:

http://www.vintagesaws.com/library/primer/sharp.html

Samu

[email protected] kirjoitti:

> Hello,
>
> Jay Pique kirjoitti:
>
> > Robatoy wrote:
> > > And as I am looking at those blades... is there any reason they can't
> > > be sharpened? Maybe not the bi-metal ones.. but the regular wood
> > > E-blades?
> > > Stick it in a sharpening vice... and use a fine tri-angular file? (I am
> > > seriously out of my league when it comes to things like sharpening, so
> > > bear with me.)
> >
> > I can't imagine why not, unless the steel is A2 or something harder, in
> > which case you'd probably want to use diamond. How fine are the teeth?
> > If it's like a fine-tooth pull saw you'll really have some learning to
> > do!
> >
> > JP
>
> Check out this pic:
> http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000223P4.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
>
> The teeth look similar as in japanese cross-cut saws, and are possibly
> impulse hardened. Sharpening of these is not yet beyond reach, but it
> is much more difficult than with western style saws.
>
> But when You combine that high machine speed of Multimaster with a thin
> blade having slight tooth asymmetry and some loss of tooth set caused
> by resharpening, and start sawing anything thicker than 1/4" or along a
> straight line, I think there may appear problems. I do not know the
> thing with Multimaster, but I've had similar kind of situation with
> precision miniature table saw. I tried to resharpen this very thin
> circular blade, and although I have reasonable experience and a
> selection of very good tools, sturdy jigs'n'such and a lot of patience,
> I ended up buying a new lot of expensive blades. It was just too time
> consuming to get results adequate enough.
>
> But I think You should try. It's a cool experiment. I think also that
> it could be possible to reshape (actually remake) teeth as ripcut saw.
>
> Like Jay said, why not and a fine quality file or diamond file should
> do the thing. I would add there that You should construct a jig or
> similar, where You can secure the blade and then You should assemble
> tables or rails on both sides to ensure constant straight angle between
> file and blade. For the file, kinda easiest way is to join small blocks
> of wood or plastic on both ends of file so that file angle is supported
> as straight while making the last effective pass between two sawteeth.
>
> Regards,
>
> Samu

Robatoy wrote:

SNIP

> And as I am looking at those blades... is there any reason they can't
> be sharpened? Maybe not the bi-metal ones.. but the regular wood
> E-blades?
> Stick it in a sharpening vice... and use a fine tri-angular file? (I am
> seriously out of my league when it comes to things like sharpening, so
> bear with me.)
>
> r

I hope you post your test results so we can see them. I could use one
of these to get door frames sawn flush to the floors when replacing
doors. A great deal of my door replacement business seems to be where
someone has tiled all the way under the door, then out over the step
inside the house making a nice face on the concrete riser leading into
the house. With the frame tiled in solid, I used to break tiles and
crack grout getting the frame out of the tile to set a new unit.

Now I saw the frame/jamb off flush with a fine tooth flexible 8"
sawzall blade after taping up the tile to protect it. A real pain in
the ass.

But one of the things that has scared me away from this tool (besides
the original cost!) is the cost of consumables. I have always wondered
if you could sharpen one of those blades with a Dremel with one of
those little cut off wheels on it.

Inquiring minds are wondering...

Robert

[email protected] wrote:
> Hello,
[snipped for brevity]
> But I think You should try. It's a cool experiment. I think also that
> it could be possible to reshape (actually remake) teeth as ripcut saw.
>
[snipped for brevity
> Regards,
>
> Samu

Thank you Samu for the suggestions and links. A reply like yours helps
me keep the faith in this newsgroup. Very useful information.

r

J. Clarke wrote:

> What would be exceedingly cool would be figuring out a way to use the
> diamond sharpener that comes in the Mini-E-cut set to sharpen the blades.
>

Now THAT would be cool. I will look at that first thing tomorrow
morning.

r

[email protected] wrote:
[snipped for brevity]
> Now I saw the frame/jamb off flush with a fine tooth flexible 8"
> sawzall blade after taping up the tile to protect it. A real pain in
> the ass.
>


The E-Blade leaves a 0.5mm kerf. If you don't hit any nails or plaster,
the blade lasts a long, long time. The BiMetal one fares much better
under adverse conditions. A simple nail won't bother it.
I have done the 8" SawsAll version.. it's really rude in comparison.

> But one of the things that has scared me away from this tool (besides
> the original cost!) is the cost of consumables. I have always wondered
> if you could sharpen one of those blades with a Dremel with one of
> those little cut off wheels on it.

What an excellent idea! Justabout the perfect thickness too! I can't
wait to try it!

Thanks for that.

r

btw... take the plunge. I know it is a bit steep, but is it ever
useful! I'm telling you.. it's a forehead slapper! DO IT, Damnit!!

Robatoy wrote:

SNIP

> btw... take the plunge. I know it is a bit steep, but is it ever
> useful! I'm telling you.. it's a forehead slapper! DO IT, Damnit!!

I am still a little tool investment shy after my recent investment into
the wonderful world of HVLP. I bought a full turbine system with a few
extra aircaps, and for other purposes a conversions gun. You know how
that goes... I never initially intended to spend that much, but...

But I have lusted after one of those Fein rascals for some time. Now
however, I go to Amazon and take a look, then a couple of other sites,
and there must be 6 different packages to buy. I don't need the
grout/tile attachments, and can't tell what some of the others are.
Which one did you get? Would you buy the same one again?

The purpose for this tool to meet my needs would be (as above) flush
sawing, and then a small amount of detail sanding. That's it. $300
still sounds a little steep. What do you find is the best use in your
application?

Robert

[email protected] wrote:

> I am still a little tool investment shy after my recent investment
[snipped for brevity]

Even though Lew smacked me around till I bought it, it took a specific
job for a very loyal customer, before I took the plunge. That job could
not have been done as efficiently and elegantly without that tool.
Besides, the job practically took care of the cost of the tool.
BUT... then I started playing with it and found it very useful in lots
of other applications.

> What do you find is the best use in your
> application?
Most of my usage is very trade-specific. Almost all my countertops
have a 3" wide peripheral frame of 1" thick upon which the 1/2" solid
surface material rests. With today's large undermounted sinks, things
get real crowded in the area back of the sink. Taps, detergent
dispensors, water treatment tap, boiling hot water taps, spray
attachments etc. I used to measure and zig-zag my through. Now I run my
frame full width, full parameter and drill for my accessories on the
job. from the top of the deck and cut away the space I need for the
required nuts and access for the clamps that hold the sinks up in place
from underneath.
In other words, justabout all my cuts are plunge cuts, straight in, in
a very confined space. That feature along is well worth the cost of the
tool.... on most jobs it saves me over an hour...and no screwups with
measurements. (Which I have been told happen to other people.)
Then I use it to do a quick touch-up sanding job and the dust
collection option which comes with the TOP package is very useful.
All you need to do, is add up the cost of all the inividual attachments
and you'll soon discover what a good deal it really is. I know you
won't be using all the attachments, nor will all the attachments do
what you want either.... but you wouldn't go out and buy them at full
dollar to find that out.

Last time I used it:
I set the cross hairs of my laser along the bottom and one side of a
wallmounted plug. Leaving the laser on, I then hung the micro-wave
cabinet in front of the plug. The laser clearly marked where to cut
with my Multimaster. Plunge in a few times... total control... done.
Literally a 5 minute job....with nice clean edges.... very little
sawdust from the 0.5 mm kerf.

Listen to Lew, Robert...

Nailshooter's suggestion to use a Dremel cut-off wheet to sharpen the
E-blades for the Fein Multimaster works like a charm!
The Heavy Duty cut-off wheels (20 to a package) are too thick. The
regular ones ( 36 to a package) are perfect!

r

Robatoy wrote:
> Nailshooter's suggestion to use a Dremel cut-off wheet to sharpen the
> E-blades for the Fein Multimaster works like a charm!
> The Heavy Duty cut-off wheels (20 to a package) are too thick. The
> regular ones ( 36 to a package) are perfect!
>
> r

Great... thanks a lot... now it looks like it could be affordable. NO
ONE I know that has one of those has ever tried to sharpen the blades,
and consequently, they don't want to "put them to work" since blade
replacement for a dull or damaged blade is expensive. No matter what I
suggested I have been told that sharpening just didn't work. So at $35
a single blade that could be ruined when I touch a nail it looks
expensive. >That< has been my out all these years.

The Feins of my amigos have been used almost exclusively for sanding
since they don't want to take a chance on goofing up a costly blade,
but they claim that just as a sander/polisher over the years it has
more than paid for itself. But now if you can actually sharpen the
blades and reuse them a couple of times my old excuse is gone... I
could be screwed. A $35 blade that can be sharpened a couple of times
isn't bad for a specialty tool. Especially if it is a time saver that
does exactly what I want.

May be time to start shopping. Crap. I hate endorsements from other
contractors.
But i do appreciate the info!

Robert

i bought some of these knockoff fein blades, and although a little
thicker they work just fine.the teeth are a little more aggressive, but
for the difference in price it's worth it.if you buy 6 you get 7, so it
comes out to $19 a blade.oh by the way i'm not selling them, nor do i
know the seller, just trying fellow woodworkers save a few
bucks.http://cgi.ebay.com/Wide-cutting-BLADE-for-Fein-Multimaster-Free-Shipping_W0QQitemZ7629960379QQihZ017QQcategoryZ20797QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

woodarama wrote:
> i bought some of these knockoff fein blades, and although a little
> thicker they work just fine.

That was just a matter of time. Still, a 2 dollar blade for 20?
Ain't free enterprise wonderful?

r

Paper comes loose quickly.

Tomnie

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tom Nie wrote:
>
>> Robert,
>>
>> Cabinets installed. Then hardwood flooring installed abutting. Go to
>> install trash compactor - !!! too wide. ONLY way to remove 1/4 inch of
>> hardwood without screwing up the finish was a FEIN plunge cut. (wasn't my
>> job BTW)
>>
>> Now I've bought one. The rubber sanding blocks work only in theory
>> (gimmicky selling point).
>
> ???? What problem are you having with them?
>
>> Haven't used it otherwise but the above showed
>> me that it's the only tool for a certain kind of flush plunge cut,
>> otherwise the accessories are still to be proven.
>>
>> Great sharpening idea. Thanks.
>> TomNie
>
> --
> --John
> to email, dial "usenet" and validate
> (was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Robatoy wrote:

> btw... take the plunge. I know it is a bit steep, but is it ever
> useful! I'm telling you.. it's a forehead slapper! DO IT, Damnit!!


How long did I beat on you before you took the plunge?<G>

Lew

The paint scraping feature works great. Got layers and layers of old,
cracked but not necessarily loose and flaking oil-base off the exterior
trim of my house. Gosh, are the scraper blades expensive!?

was a FEIN plunge cut. (wasn't my job BTW)
>
> Now I've bought one. The rubber sanding blocks work only in theory (gimmicky
> selling point). Haven't used it otherwise but the above showed me that it's
> the only tool for a certain kind of flush plunge cut, otherwise the
> accessories are still to be proven.

[email protected] wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Jay Pique kirjoitti:
>
>> Robatoy wrote:
>> > And as I am looking at those blades... is there any reason they can't
>> > be sharpened? Maybe not the bi-metal ones.. but the regular wood
>> > E-blades?
>> > Stick it in a sharpening vice... and use a fine tri-angular file? (I am
>> > seriously out of my league when it comes to things like sharpening, so
>> > bear with me.)
>>
>> I can't imagine why not, unless the steel is A2 or something harder, in
>> which case you'd probably want to use diamond. How fine are the teeth?
>> If it's like a fine-tooth pull saw you'll really have some learning to
>> do!
>>
>> JP
>
> Check out this pic:
> http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000223P4.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
>
> The teeth look similar as in japanese cross-cut saws, and are possibly
> impulse hardened. Sharpening of these is not yet beyond reach, but it
> is much more difficult than with western style saws.
>
> But when You combine that high machine speed of Multimaster with a thin
> blade having slight tooth asymmetry and some loss of tooth set caused
> by resharpening, and start sawing anything thicker than 1/4" or along a
> straight line, I think there may appear problems. I do not know the
> thing with Multimaster, but I've had similar kind of situation with
> precision miniature table saw. I tried to resharpen this very thin
> circular blade, and although I have reasonable experience and a
> selection of very good tools, sturdy jigs'n'such and a lot of patience,
> I ended up buying a new lot of expensive blades. It was just too time
> consuming to get results adequate enough.
>
> But I think You should try. It's a cool experiment. I think also that
> it could be possible to reshape (actually remake) teeth as ripcut saw.
>
> Like Jay said, why not and a fine quality file or diamond file should
> do the thing. I would add there that You should construct a jig or
> similar, where You can secure the blade and then You should assemble
> tables or rails on both sides to ensure constant straight angle between
> file and blade. For the file, kinda easiest way is to join small blocks
> of wood or plastic on both ends of file so that file angle is supported
> as straight while making the last effective pass between two sawteeth.

What would be exceedingly cool would be figuring out a way to use the
diamond sharpener that comes in the Mini-E-cut set to sharpen the blades.


--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Lew Hodgett wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > But I have lusted after one of those Fein rascals for some time. Now
> > however, I go to Amazon and take a look, then a couple of other sites,
> > and there must be 6 different packages to buy. I don't need the
> > grout/tile attachments, and can't tell what some of the others are.
> > Which one did you get? Would you buy the same one again?
>
> Check out toolseeker.com.
>
> SFWIW, bought the std variable speed kit with an extra blade kit of
> three (3) carbide blades.
>
> Does everything I need done to date.
>
> About $200 complete in 03/05.

Main advantage of the more elaborate kits is that you get more of the
expensive goodies for a good discount.
>
>
> Lew

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Tom Nie wrote:

> Robert,
>
> Cabinets installed. Then hardwood flooring installed abutting. Go to
> install trash compactor - !!! too wide. ONLY way to remove 1/4 inch of
> hardwood without screwing up the finish was a FEIN plunge cut. (wasn't my
> job BTW)
>
> Now I've bought one. The rubber sanding blocks work only in theory
> (gimmicky selling point).

???? What problem are you having with them?

> Haven't used it otherwise but the above showed
> me that it's the only tool for a certain kind of flush plunge cut,
> otherwise the accessories are still to be proven.
>
> Great sharpening idea. Thanks.
> TomNie

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

[email protected] wrote:

> But I have lusted after one of those Fein rascals for some time. Now
> however, I go to Amazon and take a look, then a couple of other sites,
> and there must be 6 different packages to buy. I don't need the
> grout/tile attachments, and can't tell what some of the others are.
> Which one did you get? Would you buy the same one again?

Check out toolseeker.com.

SFWIW, bought the std variable speed kit with an extra blade kit of
three (3) carbide blades.

Does everything I need done to date.

About $200 complete in 03/05.


Lew

Robert,

Cabinets installed. Then hardwood flooring installed abutting. Go to install
trash compactor - !!! too wide. ONLY way to remove 1/4 inch of hardwood
without screwing up the finish was a FEIN plunge cut. (wasn't my job BTW)

Now I've bought one. The rubber sanding blocks work only in theory (gimmicky
selling point). Haven't used it otherwise but the above showed me that it's
the only tool for a certain kind of flush plunge cut, otherwise the
accessories are still to be proven.

Great sharpening idea. Thanks.
TomNie