I just purchased my first table saw this weekend and I'm trying to get
a better handle on how to most effectively (and safely) use it. I need
to rip some 2" wide pieces of 3/4" plywood and I'm trying to figure out
the best way to do it where I don't end up wasting a bunch of wood.
Say the plywood is 4' x 4' and I want to cut (4) 2" x 4' strips from
it. It would seem the most accurate way to do this would be to set the
rip fence (which is to the right of the blade) 2" from the blade and
then run the board with the majority of the board to the left of the
blade. My concern is that I'm asking for kickback with the waste side
being so much larger than the piece I'm trying to create. On the other
hand, I've never heard of someone (but I'm new so this doesn't mean
much) putting the waste on the fence side. What's the proper way to
make these cuts?
"Tex" <tex@my_isp.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
> I know this is not a solution for everyone, but I recently installed one
> of the HTC outfeed roller units on my PM66. Man, do I ever love it!
I have been using the Jet, HTC built version of the out feed roller setup
for about 6 years. It works perfectly and has never had to be realigned. I
especially appreciate the fact that it is totally supported by the saw.
Moving the saw for different sized material cuts is like moving a saw with
out an out feed setup.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I just purchased my first table saw this weekend and I'm trying to get
>> a better handle on how to most effectively (and safely) use it. I need
>> to rip some 2" wide pieces of 3/4" plywood and I'm trying to figure out
>> the best way to do it where I don't end up wasting a bunch of wood.
>> Say the plywood is 4' x 4' and I want to cut (4) 2" x 4' strips from
>> it. It would seem the most accurate way to do this would be to set the
>> rip fence (which is to the right of the blade) 2" from the blade and
>
> One way to help lower the chance kickback is to have sufficient support
> tables for infeed and outfeed. If that's not possible, then I'd cut the
> 4'x4' piece down a bit with a circular saw or jigsaw and then cut to exact
> size on the tablesaw. Typically, if you're right handed, the wood being
> cut
> on the tablesaw is passed by the blade on the left side of the fence with
> your body being further to the left out of the flight path if a kickback
> occurs.
Unfortunately, if you experience a real kickback, you're directly in the
line of fire. Kelly Mehler ("The Table Saw Book" and strong proponent of
table saw safety) calls what I think you're talking about "ejection", where
a typically narrow piece is forced straight back. In a true kickback (at
least by his definition), a typically larger piece gets pinned between the
blade and the fence. The rear of the blade picks up the back and you get
free demonstration of the physics of moving bodies as the panel is shot out
at approximately a 45 degree angle. Maybe we're just dealing with
semantics, but I want to stress that standing to the left of the blade when
the fence is on the right is not necessarily a safe location. As someone
here said once, the only completely safe place to stand when cutting with a
table saw is in the other room.
todd
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:MQ_mg.11109
> Sitting on it while it goes over the rollers doesn't qualify. You're full
of
> it.
You really are an asshole aren't you? As to lying, I don't lie and I don't
cheat. So far, John Clark is the only liar I've seen here.
Perhaps I should post some pictures. But then, you'd say that I purposefully
caused the effect wouldn't you?
Quite the shallow little world you live in.
todd wrote:
>
> Unfortunately, if you experience a real kickback, you're directly in the
> line of fire. Kelly Mehler ("The Table Saw Book" and strong proponent of
> table saw safety) calls what I think you're talking about "ejection", where
> a typically narrow piece is forced straight back. In a true kickback (at
> least by his definition), a typically larger piece gets pinned between the
> blade and the fence. The rear of the blade picks up the back and you get
> free demonstration of the physics of moving bodies as the panel is shot out
> at approximately a 45 degree angle. Maybe we're just dealing with
> semantics, but I want to stress that standing to the left of the blade when
> the fence is on the right is not necessarily a safe location. As someone
> here said once, the only completely safe place to stand when cutting with a
> table saw is in the other room.
Can you give me some more information about the 45-degree angle, Todd?
I was always taught to stand to the left of the blade (right-side
fence). Which plane is the kickback going to travel 45 degrees in? Is
it upwards from the table or rearwards from the blade?
I have a set of Grrripers I use to rip with, and I find the easiest
place to stand is often directly on the left side of the saw (legs
braced against the cabinet)...that way I can keep the wood pressed down
throughout the length of the cut and my hands are (relatively)
protected from the blade even though they pass directly over it.
Thanks in advance Todd.
[email protected] wrote:
> I just purchased my first table saw this weekend and I'm trying to get
> a better handle on how to most effectively (and safely) use it. I need
> to rip some 2" wide pieces of 3/4" plywood and I'm trying to figure out
> the best way to do it where I don't end up wasting a bunch of wood.
> Say the plywood is 4' x 4' and I want to cut (4) 2" x 4' strips from
> it. It would seem the most accurate way to do this would be to set the
> rip fence (which is to the right of the blade) 2" from the blade and
> then run the board with the majority of the board to the left of the
> blade. My concern is that I'm asking for kickback with the waste side
> being so much larger than the piece I'm trying to create. On the other
> hand, I've never heard of someone (but I'm new so this doesn't mean
> much) putting the waste on the fence side. What's the proper way to
> make these cuts?
As a newbie I went down this path and I heartily recommend not cutting
sheetgoods on the table saw. Clamp a straightedge to the goods and use
a good circular saw instead. I realise that you can cut sheetgoods with
a tablesaw and many here do it regularly with no issues but it's not
one of the simpler operations for a newbie to do safely.
Do an Amazon search for TruGrip, I have the 4ft, and 8ft guides and
the sawbase and by using these I can do very accurate, safe cuts on
sheetgoods. Good luck :)
Leuf wrote:
>
> I would just add if the saw doesn't have a large table you may find it
> easier to rip off a piece that is large enough to cut all 4 pieces
> from first. In other words take 4 x 2" plus 3 saw kerfs 3 x 1/8" plus
> a little bit to be safe, so say 8.5". This makes the first cut a bit
> more balanced and at a width that you don't need a push stick for.
> Then when you are using the push stick you don't have so much weight
> to deal with.
>
>
> -Leuf
I agree with Leuf but would go a little wider, say 9" until you get a
little more practice.
haven't read all yet, however.
when pushing forward through fence, when narrow & wide piece are about to
seperate when they fully pass the blade, make sure you are pushing only on
the side that has support - the fence side. Otherwise, if you're pushing on
the left, or both, when the wood separates, by pushing forward, you will be
pushing the cut waste side directly into the back of the blade.
A cross cut sled is something everyone has to make, can't buy 'em. Easy,
and can buy and construct for penauts, w/ no tools, in minutes. The cuts
are perfect. Clamp on a stop and without a caliper you would never find any
difference on any corner.
Some rules are easy to remember. Never use the fence and the mitre at the
same time. Others, like this, through trial and error. Actually, there
should be a table. Think each cut through first.
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Chris Friesen wrote:
> damian penney wrote:
>
> > As a newbie I went down this path and I heartily recommend not cutting
> > sheetgoods on the table saw. Clamp a straightedge to the goods and use
> > a good circular saw instead.
>
> I do this, and get decent results. However, unless you have a decent
> circular saw and blade, the results aren't as good as the table saw.
>
> I recently upgraded to a cabinet saw, and cutting plywood gives me much
> smoother edges than the circular saw.
>
> Maybe it just means I need a new circular saw and blade...
>
> Chris
I just upgraded from a $30 Skill saw to an Hitachi C7BD2 as the Skill
would flex left to right leaving saw marks in my cuts (and burning on
occassion) and it's made a big difference, with a nice sharp plywood
blade I can get glassy cuts with no tearout. I think if I had a better
infeed/outfeed setup and a splitter I'd be more comfortable with doing
the cuts on the tablesaw. My two incidents both happened before I
fashioned a splitter for the saw but the straight edge works well
enough for me not to look for an alternative at the moment.
Two gadgets that help when ripping:1) ripstrate: A roller device that
sits on the rip fence. It holds the wood down and the angle of the
wheels drives the wood "into" the fence. Wheels only turn i one
direction to prevent launches. A heavy duty and well made device. 2) At
the opposit eend of the spectrum is a simple plastic tab, that mounts
inline with the saw blade in a zero clearance insert. It works like a
splitter, but the plastic springyness keeps the woo pushed up against
the fence.
Mitch
damian penney wrote:
> As a newbie I went down this path and I heartily recommend not cutting
> sheetgoods on the table saw. Clamp a straightedge to the goods and use
> a good circular saw instead.
I do this, and get decent results. However, unless you have a decent
circular saw and blade, the results aren't as good as the table saw.
I recently upgraded to a cabinet saw, and cutting plywood gives me much
smoother edges than the circular saw.
Maybe it just means I need a new circular saw and blade...
Chris
"Tex" <tex@my_isp.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Since you say you are new to table saws, I'll offer these other two
> suggestions and/or pieces of advice: (1) set the blade height to just
> clear the top of the wood being cut (1/4" to 3/8" max); and (2) watch
> your clothing (sleeve, etc.) to make SURE nothing can get caught in the
> blade.
>
I was always taught to have the blade 1" above the wood you are cutting, if
your blade is just clearing the wood, then the blade is pushing back on the
piece, when the blade is higher, it is pushing down on the piece, much less
likely to result in a kickback.
Of course I am relatively new to this, so please correct me if this is
wrong.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I just purchased my first table saw this weekend and I'm trying to get
> a better handle on how to most effectively (and safely) use it. I need
> to rip some 2" wide pieces of 3/4" plywood and I'm trying to figure out
> the best way to do it where I don't end up wasting a bunch of wood.
> Say the plywood is 4' x 4' and I want to cut (4) 2" x 4' strips from
> it. It would seem the most accurate way to do this would be to set the
> rip fence (which is to the right of the blade) 2" from the blade and
> then run the board with the majority of the board to the left of the
> blade. My concern is that I'm asking for kickback with the waste side
> being so much larger than the piece I'm trying to create. On the other
> hand, I've never heard of someone (but I'm new so this doesn't mean
> much) putting the waste on the fence side. What's the proper way to
> make these cuts?
>
The proper way to make these cuts is the way you described. Set the fence
to 2" and cut. Use a push stick to push the right side and "Gently" keep
the piece against the fence with your left hand by "Gently" pushing towards
the fence.
Since the waste side is not trapped between the fence and the blade, kick
back is not much of a risk or likely. I seriously doubt that the blade
would be able to flip a 4' square piece of 3/4" plywood and throw it back at
you.
With more practice and experience you will learn to recognize what
situations are likely to produce kickback. This is not one of them.
"Leon" wrote in message
> The proper way to make these cuts is the way you described. Set the fence
> to 2" and cut.
> With more practice and experience you will learn to recognize what
> situations are likely to produce kickback. This is not one of them.
Absolutely agree. Started to post similar sentiments earlier this morning,
but got sidetracked, then OE barfed and deleted my carefully worded
masterpiece, so said to hell with it.
Simplest solution is to just cut the 4 x 4 sheet of plywood roughly in half
based on the number of parts he needs, then proceed with his accurate cuts
against the fence.
Or,
... a roller stand to the left of the table to support the width of the
cutoff until it gets small enough not to want to tip off the saw table.
Tipping is liable to cause a good deal of harm to the edge of his cutoff,
but unlikely to kick back, IME.
... more likely it will just provide an opportunity for an unscheduled
change of under drawers.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/6/06
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just purchased my first table saw this weekend and I'm trying to get
> a better handle on how to most effectively (and safely) use it. I need
> to rip some 2" wide pieces of 3/4" plywood and I'm trying to figure out
> the best way to do it where I don't end up wasting a bunch of wood.
> Say the plywood is 4' x 4' and I want to cut (4) 2" x 4' strips from
> it. It would seem the most accurate way to do this would be to set the
> rip fence (which is to the right of the blade) 2" from the blade and
One way to help lower the chance kickback is to have sufficient support
tables for infeed and outfeed. If that's not possible, then I'd cut the
4'x4' piece down a bit with a circular saw or jigsaw and then cut to exact
size on the tablesaw. Typically, if you're right handed, the wood being cut
on the tablesaw is passed by the blade on the left side of the fence with
your body being further to the left out of the flight path if a kickback
occurs. Use a pushstick to run the board past the blade, (which means your
hand is not reaching over the blade as you're cutting), the only part of
your body that is exposed to the kickback flight path is your arm. Better
that than the family jewels or something equally as bad.
On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 11:32:54 -0400, "Stephen M"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> I'll give that a qualified endorsement- you're only likely to get into
>> trouble with sheet goods if they're way too big for you to handle (in
>> that cased, get a helper)
>
>Am I the only one who doesn't like having a helper?
>
>IME, well meaning , and even well-coached helper on the outfeed side of the
>saw have the bad habbit of pulling the board through at the end of the cut
>and almost invariably tugging at least slightly to the side.
Nope- I don't like having one either, but it's better in some cases.
On 22 Jun 2006 11:31:13 -0700, "damian penney" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>Chris Friesen wrote:
>> damian penney wrote:
>>
>> > As a newbie I went down this path and I heartily recommend not cutting
>> > sheetgoods on the table saw. Clamp a straightedge to the goods and use
>> > a good circular saw instead.
>>
>> I do this, and get decent results. However, unless you have a decent
>> circular saw and blade, the results aren't as good as the table saw.
>>
>> I recently upgraded to a cabinet saw, and cutting plywood gives me much
>> smoother edges than the circular saw.
>>
>> Maybe it just means I need a new circular saw and blade...
>>
>> Chris
>
>I just upgraded from a $30 Skill saw to an Hitachi C7BD2 as the Skill
>would flex left to right leaving saw marks in my cuts (and burning on
>occassion) and it's made a big difference, with a nice sharp plywood
>blade I can get glassy cuts with no tearout. I think if I had a better
>infeed/outfeed setup and a splitter I'd be more comfortable with doing
>the cuts on the tablesaw. My two incidents both happened before I
>fashioned a splitter for the saw but the straight edge works well
>enough for me not to look for an alternative at the moment.
You can put a hardboard foot on the circular saw as well, and then
plunge the blade through it to make a zero-clearance insert for it.
Reduces splintering immensely. If you just plunge it, you lose your
blade guard, with is a bad idea, but you can cut a wider groove on the
back side to let the guard through- as long as the hardboard is close
to the blade in the front, it'll do the job. And as an added bonus,
the hardboard foot is a lot nicer to your stock than the average
circular saw foot.
That being said, it seems a little odd to use a circular saw for
something like ripping a bunch of 2" strips when the table saw is
right there.
I don't disagree with any of the several 'answers' I've read.
HOWEVER, while they 'hint' at something critically important - they don't
address it DIRECTLY. It is something you should have done BEFORE you bought
the saw. {The 'operation' you want to perform is a very basic one}. Do a bit
of research in view of WHAT YOU want to do and expect the saw to do. It
doesn't even have to cost anything. Obviously, you can still do it now, but
you will have to live with what you got . . . at least for a little while !!
{like I did - many years ago}
Go to your local LIBRARY. Look for the woodworking section and books
specific to tablesaws. A number of them will probably be old - but the very
basics don't change. Skim through these books. More importantly, look for
recently published books - some may even illustrate your saw !! Check these
out and study them.
For specific 'Tips & Tricks' most libraries have copy machines {cheaper then
the local 7-11}. It's worth a couple of dollars to put these in a 'shop
notebook'.
Regards & Good Luck,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just purchased my first table saw this weekend and I'm trying to get
> a better handle on how to most effectively (and safely) use it. I need
> to rip some 2" wide pieces of 3/4" plywood and I'm trying to figure out
> the best way to do it where I don't end up wasting a bunch of wood.
SNIP
"damian penney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Do an Amazon search for TruGrip, I have the 4ft, and 8ft guides and
> the sawbase and by using these I can do very accurate, safe cuts on
> sheetgoods. Good luck :)
Here's an example of an edge guide that's the same as the Trugrip that
Damian mentioned.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=30035&cat=1,240,45313
"MB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Two gadgets that help when ripping:1) ripstrate: A roller device that
> sits on the rip fence. It holds the wood down and the angle of the
> wheels drives the wood "into" the fence. Wheels only turn i one
> direction to prevent launches. A heavy duty and well made device.
They're called Board Buddies.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G2370
> the opposite end of the spectrum is a simple plastic tab, that mounts
> inline with the saw blade in a zero clearance insert. It works like a
> splitter, but the plastic springyness keeps the woo pushed up against
> the fence.
Sounds like you're talking about a Microjig Splitter.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=51151&cat=1,41080,41165
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Sorry, I should have been more explicit. They don't have to be "rollers"
...
> the ball bearing type "roller stands" move in any axis (particularly the
> commercial ones with multiple rows of ball bearings) making it easy to
guide
> in any direction with no pull ... a much better choice for a table saw if
> you have the room and the need.
When I first experienced some bias with the single roller stand I bought, I
looked at a bias free roller stand on Lee Valley Tools' website. I then went
out and bought some cheap wheeled casters, screwed them down to a piece of
2x4 and mounted that onto the roller stand. It's a little top heavy, but it
works fine without any bias whatsoever.
I have considered the ball bearing type, but I do have a question about
them. I saw mention once that the relatively small surface contact they use
can cause indentations in stuff like veneered plywood. Have you ever
experience anything like this?
"todd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> at approximately a 45 degree angle. Maybe we're just dealing with
> semantics, but I want to stress that standing to the left of the blade
when
> the fence is on the right is not necessarily a safe location. As someone
> here said once, the only completely safe place to stand when cutting with
a
> table saw is in the other room.
Sure, I can't argue with that sentiment. Sh*t happens and Murphy's law is
always waiting in the wings to make an entrance. All one can do is to take
reasonable precautions.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> That's my excuse and I'm'a sticking with it.
> Thanks Swingman for the inspiration. ;~)
Of course. Why put effort into making up an original excuse when you can
latch onto someone else's?
[email protected] wrote:
> I just purchased my first table saw this weekend and I'm trying to get
> a better handle on how to most effectively (and safely) use it. I
> need to rip some 2" wide pieces of 3/4" plywood and I'm trying to
> figure out the best way to do it where I don't end up wasting a bunch
> of wood. Say the plywood is 4' x 4' and I want to cut (4) 2" x 4'
> strips from it. It would seem the most accurate way to do this would
> be to set the rip fence (which is to the right of the blade) 2" from
> the blade and then run the board with the majority of the board to
> the left of the blade. My concern is that I'm asking for kickback
> with the waste side being so much larger than the piece I'm trying to
> create. On the other hand, I've never heard of someone (but I'm new
> so this doesn't mean much) putting the waste on the fence side.
> What's the proper way to make these cuts?
Leon gave you the straight dope. In addition to what he said, there is
nothing that prevents you from initially ripping the wide piece into
narrower ones - 12", 18", 24"...whatever - then ripping the 2" pieces from
those more manageable sizes. In your case, you want 4-2" strips which = 8"
plus the kerfs.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
I'm sure it could, if you hammer on it while it's on the stand. Not even
balsa is soft enough to dent of it's own weight just rolling across a stand.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have considered the ball bearing type, but I do have a question about
> them. I saw mention once that the relatively small surface contact they
use
> can cause indentations in stuff like veneered plywood.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> That's my excuse and I'm'a sticking with it.
>> Thanks Swingman for the inspiration. ;~)
>
> Of course. Why put effort into making up an original excuse when you can
> latch onto someone else's?
Exactly~~~ LOL My original involved me being part of the problem. :~)
"Stephen M" wrote in message
> I am not, however, a big fan of roller stands. I prefer a saw horse with a
> waxed top.
That'll work.
Sorry, I should have been more explicit. They don't have to be "rollers" ...
the ball bearing type "roller stands" move in any axis (particularly the
commercial ones with multiple rows of ball bearings) making it easy to guide
in any direction with no pull ... a much better choice for a table saw if
you have the room and the need.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/21/06
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ah yes, from deep in the heart of Texas.<G>
Yeah, no inflated ego's down here.. LOL
Sitting on it while it goes over the rollers doesn't qualify. You're full of
it.
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
"Stephen M" wrote in message
> Am I the only one who doesn't like having a helper?
Only it he/she is an experienced woodworker ... particularly one who has the
experience, and intelligence, to always be thinking ahead.
I had the pleasure of working with Leon for almost a month a few months ago
and, besides great minds thinking alike, ;) it was like having two more of
my own hands.
That is indeed, a great pleasure that every serious woodworker needs to
experience.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/21/06
Swingman wrote:
> Ahh, but you see ... mine post was so elegant in its composition,
and so
> piercing in its logic, that, had it not ended up in the OE bit
bucket, the
> thread, and possibly the entire wRec, would have dried up
immediately ...
> words would have even escaped Tom Watson.
>
> The world's loss, without doubt ... but TW's, and Shakespeare's,
reputations
> remain intact.
Ah yes, from deep in the heart of Texas.<G>
Lew
[email protected] wrote:
> I just purchased my first table saw this weekend and I'm trying to get
> a better handle on how to most effectively (and safely) use it. I need
> to rip some 2" wide pieces of 3/4" plywood and I'm trying to figure out
> the best way to do it where I don't end up wasting a bunch of wood.
> Say the plywood is 4' x 4' and I want to cut (4) 2" x 4' strips from
> it. It would seem the most accurate way to do this would be to set the
> rip fence (which is to the right of the blade) 2" from the blade and
> then run the board with the majority of the board to the left of the
> blade.
<snip>
As UPSCALE has suggested, cut this project down to size first.
Rip a piece about 10" wide first, then rip the 2" pieces from the 10"
piece.
If you don't have infeed and outfeed tables to support the piece, get
some help. I would NOT try to handle a 4x4 sheet with only a table saw
top to support the piece.
If you have a circular saw and a straight edge, time to use it first
as UPSCALE suggests.
Lew
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> todd wrote:
>>
>> Unfortunately, if you experience a real kickback, you're directly in the
>> line of fire. Kelly Mehler ("The Table Saw Book" and strong proponent of
>> table saw safety) calls what I think you're talking about "ejection",
>> where
>> a typically narrow piece is forced straight back. In a true kickback (at
>> least by his definition), a typically larger piece gets pinned between
>> the
>> blade and the fence. The rear of the blade picks up the back and you get
>> free demonstration of the physics of moving bodies as the panel is shot
>> out
>> at approximately a 45 degree angle. Maybe we're just dealing with
>> semantics, but I want to stress that standing to the left of the blade
>> when
>> the fence is on the right is not necessarily a safe location. As someone
>> here said once, the only completely safe place to stand when cutting with
>> a
>> table saw is in the other room.
>
> Can you give me some more information about the 45-degree angle, Todd?
> I was always taught to stand to the left of the blade (right-side
> fence). Which plane is the kickback going to travel 45 degrees in? Is
> it upwards from the table or rearwards from the blade?
>
> I have a set of Grrripers I use to rip with, and I find the easiest
> place to stand is often directly on the left side of the saw (legs
> braced against the cabinet)...that way I can keep the wood pressed down
> throughout the length of the cut and my hands are (relatively)
> protected from the blade even though they pass directly over it.
>
> Thanks in advance Todd.
I saw Kelly Mehler demonstrate this once at a woodworking show. Since he
didn't want to shoot a piece of plywood to the other side of the room, he
used an acoustical tile. As he pushed it through the blade, he let it bind.
The rear of the blade picked it up and shot it backwards. It made an
approximately 45 degree angle relative to the fence in the plane of the saw
top at maybe a 30 degree elevation. The fix for kickback is to have a saw
with a riving knife. Unfortunately, almost no saws sold in the US are
equipped with riving knives, so Kelly shows how to approximate one in his
book by mounting a thin piece of wood directly behind the saw blade. No
access to the rear of the blade, no kickback.
todd
"Leon" wrote in message
>
> "Swingman" wrote in message
>
> Started to post similar sentiments earlier this morning,
> > but got sidetracked, then OE barfed and deleted my carefully worded
> > masterpiece, so said to hell with it.
>
>
> Humm... Actually, ALL of my posts are masterpieceseses'es that my son's
> English professor would swoon over, but I too use OE and from this point
on
> blame any thing that does not look quite right, any where near right, or
> just simply totally off base on OE.
>
> That's my excuse and I'm'a sticking with it.
>
> Thanks Swingman for the inspiration. ;~)
Ahh, but you see ... mine post was so elegant in its composition, and so
piercing in its logic, that, had it not ended up in the OE bit bucket, the
thread, and possibly the entire wRec, would have dried up immediately ...
words would have even escaped Tom Watson.
The world's loss, without doubt ... but TW's, and Shakespeare's, reputations
remain intact.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/21/06
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I just purchased my first table saw this weekend and I'm trying to get
> a better handle on how to most effectively (and safely) use it. I need
> to rip some 2" wide pieces of 3/4" plywood and I'm trying to figure out
> the best way to do it where I don't end up wasting a bunch of wood.
> Say the plywood is 4' x 4' and I want to cut (4) 2" x 4' strips from
> it. It would seem the most accurate way to do this would be to set the
> rip fence (which is to the right of the blade) 2" from the blade and
> then run the board with the majority of the board to the left of the
> blade. My concern is that I'm asking for kickback with the waste side
> being so much larger than the piece I'm trying to create. On the other
> hand, I've never heard of someone (but I'm new so this doesn't mean
> much) putting the waste on the fence side. What's the proper way to
> make these cuts?
>
First, a question - you say you bought a table saw... more information,
please. How big is the table? Do you have table extensions? Outfeed
table? A basic 27" table is insufficient for cutting sheet goods. You will
need support for the width of the piece that supports 2/3 of it, at a
minimum. You'll also need some sort of support at the outfeed.
Assuming you have adequate support for sheet goods, then set your rip fence
at some distance (arbitrary) greater than the desired 2". Secure a block of
wood to the fence nearest you, at the edge of the saw table, that is equal
to the "arbitrary" distance you cranked into the fence position. ie: if
you put the fence 3 inches from the blade, then secure a 1" block to the
fence. Now you can butt your stock up against the block to get a precise 2"
position relative to the blade, but your stock will not be binding against
the fence. That eliminates your kickback risk, and you can freely cut all
the way through. Your block should only be a couple of inches long. You're
not trying to run it up to the blade.
Fabricate and use a panel cutter (tons of stuff on the net about these) so
that you have adequate support for your piece along it's back side. Don't
try to simply use your miter as it came with the saw as it will not provide
enough support to keep a 4' piece from rotating. If your sheet stock
rotates you'll discover an entire world of high velocity excitement.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
>> I'll give that a qualified endorsement- you're only likely to get into
>> trouble with sheet goods if they're way too big for you to handle (in
>> that cased, get a helper)
>
> Am I the only one who doesn't like having a helper?
>
> IME, well meaning , and even well-coached helper on the outfeed side of
> the
> saw have the bad habbit of pulling the board through at the end of the cut
> and almost invariably tugging at least slightly to the side.
That's my experience, too. So when I designed my router table (it's on
retractable wheels), I made sure it's height was good enough to act as an
outfeed table for the table saw the odd time I need one.
What a joy it was, after all the time I took to build the router table, to
use it as an outfeed table and have it do the job exactly as it was designed
to do!
- Owen -
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Ahh, but you see ... mine post was so elegant in its composition, and so
> piercing in its logic, that, had it not ended up in the OE bit bucket, the
> thread, and possibly the entire wRec, would have dried up immediately ...
> words would have even escaped Tom Watson.
>
> The world's loss, without doubt ... but TW's, and Shakespeare's,
> reputations
> remain intact.
Sometimes fate humbles us. LOL. I am sure its eloquence would have the
been the end to the wRec as we all know it. :~)
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message news
> I'm sure it could, if you hammer on it while it's on the stand. Not even
> balsa is soft enough to dent of it's own weight just rolling across a
stand.
Actually, you're completely wrong. The density of plywood is many times that
of balsa wood and correspondingly heavier. And you're also wrong about the
possibility of denting. I was curious about what I heard so this evening so
I went over to a friend's house to test it out. Many veneers over plywood
are quite a bit softer than the plywood core itself. Using an oak veneer
over plywood and a 4'x8'x3/5" sheet with roller ball spacing of more than
12" (I removed two rows of rollers as a test), it does leave a mark on the
veneer.
Got any more uninformed smart ass comments?
>
> ... a roller stand to the left of the table to support the width of the
> cutoff until it gets small enough not to want to tip off the saw table.
>
I agree with almost all other the above. Good support is absolutely
necessary. Lack of support is essentially the same as trying to saw twisted
stock (see below).
I am not, however, a big fan of roller stands. I prefer a saw horse with a
waxed top. Roller stands tend to pull you work to one side or the other if
they are not perfectly aligned with your fence.... that can actually lead to
kickback. I used to have two rollers permanently attached to the back of my
saw. That worked pretty well; the alignment was fixed.
Now I have a dedicated outfeed table and one saw horse that I can position
for infeed or side support as necessary. I also use it to support the
extension table on my band saw. I just find it to be a more flexible shop
accessory.
As for kickback, I'll probably get flamed for my technique:
I stand in front of the blade.... yup that's right. From that position I can
best place positive pressure both down and to the right (against the fence)
in a position to the right of the blade. This puts my hand's "follow
through" away from the blade.
IF the TS is set up correctly, AND the reference faces (both table and
fence) of the stock are jointed true AND modest pressure is applied both
down and toward the fence, kickback is just nearly impossible.
Twisted stock and sloppy feed pressure both recipes for kickback.
-Steve
> I'll give that a qualified endorsement- you're only likely to get into
> trouble with sheet goods if they're way too big for you to handle (in
> that cased, get a helper)
Am I the only one who doesn't like having a helper?
IME, well meaning , and even well-coached helper on the outfeed side of the
saw have the bad habbit of pulling the board through at the end of the cut
and almost invariably tugging at least slightly to the side.
-Steve
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I just purchased my first table saw this weekend and I'm trying to get
> > a better handle on how to most effectively (and safely) use it. I need
> > to rip some 2" wide pieces of 3/4" plywood and I'm trying to figure out
> > the best way to do it where I don't end up wasting a bunch of wood.
> > Say the plywood is 4' x 4' and I want to cut (4) 2" x 4' strips from
> > it. It would seem the most accurate way to do this would be to set the
> > rip fence (which is to the right of the blade) 2" from the blade and
>
> One way to help lower the chance kickback is to have sufficient support
> tables for infeed and outfeed. If that's not possible, then I'd cut the
> 4'x4' piece down a bit with a circular saw or jigsaw and then cut to exact
> size on the tablesaw. Typically, if you're right handed, the wood being cut
> on the tablesaw is passed by the blade on the left side of the fence with
> your body being further to the left out of the flight path if a kickback
> occurs. Use a pushstick to run the board past the blade, (which means your
> hand is not reaching over the blade as you're cutting), the only part of
> your body that is exposed to the kickback flight path is your arm. Better
> that than the family jewels or something equally as bad.
>
>
>
Since you say you are new to table saws, I'll offer these other two
suggestions and/or pieces of advice: (1) set the blade height to just
clear the top of the wood being cut (1/4" to 3/8" max); and (2) watch
your clothing (sleeve, etc.) to make SURE nothing can get caught in the
blade.
A pushstick? - DEFINITELY! I use one with a handle about two inches
above the wood surface with a pusher block on the back. It's long
enough to be able to get downward pressure on the wood all the way thru
the cut as well as making sure all parts of my hand are well above the
blade. The long surface in contact with the wood and the downward
pressure provides for good control.
Oh!, and keep a healthy respect for that saw FOREVER! It's not fear,
exactly, but just remember THAT BLADE AIN'T YOUR FRIEND!
Good luck, be safe, and enjoy!
Tex
No, you're not the only one. Even i they don't try to pull it through, they
often waver enough to mess up the cut. A human being is just not as
stationary or ridgid as an outfeed table, no matter how much they want to
be.
"Stephen M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Am I the only one who doesn't like having a helper?
>
> IME, well meaning , and even well-coached helper on the outfeed side of
the
> saw have the bad habbit of pulling the board through at the end of the cut
> and almost invariably tugging at least slightly to the side.
>
> -Steve
>
>
On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 13:46:35 -0500, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Leon" wrote in message
>
>> The proper way to make these cuts is the way you described. Set the fence
>> to 2" and cut.
>
>> With more practice and experience you will learn to recognize what
>> situations are likely to produce kickback. This is not one of them.
>
>Absolutely agree. Started to post similar sentiments earlier this morning,
>but got sidetracked, then OE barfed and deleted my carefully worded
>masterpiece, so said to hell with it.
>
>Simplest solution is to just cut the 4 x 4 sheet of plywood roughly in half
>based on the number of parts he needs, then proceed with his accurate cuts
>against the fence.
>
>Or,
>
>... a roller stand to the left of the table to support the width of the
>cutoff until it gets small enough not to want to tip off the saw table.
>
>Tipping is liable to cause a good deal of harm to the edge of his cutoff,
>but unlikely to kick back, IME.
>
> ... more likely it will just provide an opportunity for an unscheduled
>change of under drawers.
I'll give that a qualified endorsement- you're only likely to get into
trouble with sheet goods if they're way too big for you to handle (in
that cased, get a helper) or if you try to rip without using your
fence. With the fence in place and the work held snug against it,
there's little or no risk.
The only thing I've got to add is that the suggestion in another post
that you set the fence at a distance further than your 2" and use a
block is a bad idea. That works really well if you are using the
miter gauge and want to use the fence as a stop block to make a lot of
crosscuts that are the same length, but with sheet goods, it's just
more likely to make the peice twist on the saw, and then you *will*
have problems.
Use a push stick for the end of the cut. This is a meat-and-potatoes
use for a table saw- use caution, certainly; but if you don't feel
fairly comfortable with this operation pretty quickly, woodworking may
not be for you- everything else you can do with a tablesaw is far more
difficult than what you're describing.
On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:43:09 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>I just purchased my first table saw this weekend and I'm trying to get
>> a better handle on how to most effectively (and safely) use it. I need
>> to rip some 2" wide pieces of 3/4" plywood and I'm trying to figure out
>> the best way to do it where I don't end up wasting a bunch of wood.
>> Say the plywood is 4' x 4' and I want to cut (4) 2" x 4' strips from
>> it. It would seem the most accurate way to do this would be to set the
>> rip fence (which is to the right of the blade) 2" from the blade and
>> then run the board with the majority of the board to the left of the
>> blade. My concern is that I'm asking for kickback with the waste side
>> being so much larger than the piece I'm trying to create. On the other
>> hand, I've never heard of someone (but I'm new so this doesn't mean
>> much) putting the waste on the fence side. What's the proper way to
>> make these cuts?
>>
>
>The proper way to make these cuts is the way you described. Set the fence
>to 2" and cut. Use a push stick to push the right side and "Gently" keep
>the piece against the fence with your left hand by "Gently" pushing towards
>the fence.
I would just add if the saw doesn't have a large table you may find it
easier to rip off a piece that is large enough to cut all 4 pieces
from first. In other words take 4 x 2" plus 3 saw kerfs 3 x 1/8" plus
a little bit to be safe, so say 8.5". This makes the first cut a bit
more balanced and at a width that you don't need a push stick for.
Then when you are using the push stick you don't have so much weight
to deal with.
-Leuf
On 21 Jun 2006 06:49:59 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>I just purchased my first table saw this weekend and I'm trying to get
>a better handle on how to most effectively (and safely) use it. I need
>to rip some 2" wide pieces of 3/4" plywood and I'm trying to figure out
>the best way to do it where I don't end up wasting a bunch of wood.
>Say the plywood is 4' x 4' and I want to cut (4) 2" x 4' strips from
>it. It would seem the most accurate way to do this would be to set the
>rip fence (which is to the right of the blade) 2" from the blade and
>then run the board with the majority of the board to the left of the
>blade. My concern is that I'm asking for kickback with the waste side
>being so much larger than the piece I'm trying to create. On the other
>hand, I've never heard of someone (but I'm new so this doesn't mean
>much) putting the waste on the fence side. What's the proper way to
>make these cuts?
One thing to do is make sure your saw is accurately setup. Following
the manual on my Ridgid 3650, I lined everything up accurately using a
T-square. Blade was 90 degrees and lined up accurately with the
t-slot for miter gauge. But when I was using saw, sometime felt a
tendancy for wood to pinch right at end. Solution: I went to Harbor
Freight and got their caliber device (thingy abob...what every you
call it... http://tinyurl.com/ro86g ), made a wooden holder and
bolted it to it to run along miter slot. Found out my saw was
slightly off. Worked and got it lined up correctly now. No more
tendancy to pinch and kickback. Another thing to do is put the guage
onto other miter trac against fence and make sure fence is perfectly
parallel to the track as well.
- Clayton
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> "Stephen M" wrote in message
>
> > I am not, however, a big fan of roller stands. I prefer a saw horse with a
> > waxed top.
>
> That'll work.
>
> Sorry, I should have been more explicit. They don't have to be "rollers" ...
> the ball bearing type "roller stands" move in any axis (particularly the
> commercial ones with multiple rows of ball bearings) making it easy to guide
> in any direction with no pull ... a much better choice for a table saw if
> you have the room and the need.
>
>
I have roller stands but I've had problems from time-to-time using them
on the outfeed side as the board or panel would hit the roller top and
push the roller over rather than go over the top and be supported. I
do, however, use them for infeed support on big panels.
I know this is not a solution for everyone, but I recently installed one
of the HTC outfeed roller units on my PM66. Man, do I ever love it!
In article <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I just purchased my first table saw this weekend and I'm trying to get
>a better handle on how to most effectively (and safely) use it. I need
>to rip some 2" wide pieces of 3/4" plywood and I'm trying to figure out
>the best way to do it where I don't end up wasting a bunch of wood.
>Say the plywood is 4' x 4' and I want to cut (4) 2" x 4' strips from
>it. It would seem the most accurate way to do this would be to set the
>rip fence (which is to the right of the blade) 2" from the blade and
>then run the board with the majority of the board to the left of the
>blade. My concern is that I'm asking for kickback with the waste side
>being so much larger than the piece I'm trying to create. On the other
>hand, I've never heard of someone (but I'm new so this doesn't mean
>much) putting the waste on the fence side. What's the proper way to
>make these cuts?
>
First off, if you are new to using the tablesaw, I strongly recommend
either reading a good book on using it (I really like Kelly Mehler's
book myself) or taking a class/finding someone experienced to get you
started.
That said, for the example you cited, cutting 2" wide strips off a 4'
long piece of plywood, I wouldn't hesitate to set the fence at 2" and
rip away, using a push stick as the end of the stock approacheds the
blade. Now, if you were cutting such that you were getting 2" X 2'
long strips, i.e. the stock with the 2 ft edge parallel to the blade,
then you would likely experience the trouble you mention in your post.
It would be difficult to keep the stock propery aligned using
only a miter gauge. A sled or panel-cutting jig, both described in
Mehler's and most other tablesaw books, would be appropriate. An
extension fence on the miter gauge would also help, but not as much as
a sled. OTOH, if you were cutting 1/4" plywood, as opposed to 3/4", it
would probably be light enough that you could maintain enoug control
using only a miter gauge with fence extension.
Again, I really recommend one of the many good books on using the
tablesaw. They will help you work efficiently and safely and explain
how to do many jobs on the TS that do not have obvious methods.
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]
"Upscale" wrote in message
> I have considered the ball bearing type, but I do have a question about
> them. I saw mention once that the relatively small surface contact they
use
> can cause indentations in stuff like veneered plywood. Have you ever
> experience anything like this?
Never noticed that being a problem, but now that my shop if full to the max,
I seldom use them for lack of room and solved the need in other ways.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/21/06
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Started to post similar sentiments earlier this morning,
> but got sidetracked, then OE barfed and deleted my carefully worded
> masterpiece, so said to hell with it.
Humm... Actually, ALL of my posts are masterpieceseses'es that my son's
English professor would swoon over, but I too use OE and from this point on
blame any thing that does not look quite right, any where near right, or
just simply totally off base on OE.
That's my excuse and I'm'a sticking with it.
Thanks Swingman for the inspiration. ;~)