Oooooops.............BOHICA
Is anyone else addicted to these things. I buy 'em; read 'em . . . and
can't bring myself to throw them away. As a consequence, I have 85 issues
of Woodwork Magazine and 168 issues of Fine Woodworking taking up 64 inches
of shelf space in an already crowded study. My wife will probably have one
helluva bonfire when I cash it in.
Yep, In addition to the mags, I also have six 4'X8' bookcases FULL.
And books in big storage footlockers under the house (nine of those at
last count).
On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:17:10 GMT, "Larry C in Auburn, WA"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I don't throw any away either, but in reality I don't have them organized
>such that I could ever use them again. Let's see, most of the FWW issues,
>all of ShopNotes, I think all of WoodSmith, about 7 years of Wood and
>American Woodworker and another I can't think of right now, several years of
>Workbench, plus a hundred misc one-off issues of various mags. Boxes and
>boxes of the damn things. Then throw in a hundred books and my house isn't
>big enough. No wonder my shop is so dang small. One of these days I need
>to at least organize them into boxes so I can actually find a particular
>issue.
"RWM" wrote in message
>
> "Swingman" wrote in message
> > "> <SNIP>
> > Too bad corporate greed keeps digital ink from blossoming. My
recreational
> > reading has been done on an electronic book for the past five or six
years
> > and my once yards of bookshelf space in almost every room of the house
has
> > been reduced to a couple of CD's. Beside, my eBook holds 50 novels, and
> > those bits and bytes weigh next to nothing when you go to packing for a
> > trip.
>
> I am not sure that it is corporate greed that has slowed the momentum of
> e-books. There have been technology issues, and problems with authors who
> are concerned about the potential piracy of their work.
Oh, it's corporate greed that plays a big part alright, witness Henry Yuen
and GemStar's idiotic, short-lived, foray into the business. Replace
"authors" with "publishers", and you'll be closer to the real truth.
It will take a new way of thinking, of which the traditional corporate types
in publishing are apparently incapable. Proof, you say?
Look no further than the pornographers who have been able to adapt to
digital technology and make billions, even involving the likes of ATT&T and
GM into their money making.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/05/04
I cut the articles out of my woodworking mags, organize them as to genre
i.e. shop projects, furniture, ect. And using plastic sheet protectors place
them in loose leaf binders. I have about 5 years worth in 6 binders. The
binders are the 4" ones that open with the rings attached to the back cover.
Saves a lot of space and I have no trouble finding articles. If I leave them
in the shop the sheet protectors keep mold from forming on the pages.
--
http://users.adelphia.net/~kyhighland
"Larry C in Auburn, WA" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:GlNUb.230487$I06.2563237@attbi_s01...
> I don't throw any away either, but in reality I don't have them organized
> such that I could ever use them again. Let's see, most of the FWW issues,
> all of ShopNotes, I think all of WoodSmith, about 7 years of Wood and
> American Woodworker and another I can't think of right now, several years
of
> Workbench, plus a hundred misc one-off issues of various mags. Boxes and
> boxes of the damn things. Then throw in a hundred books and my house
isn't
> big enough. No wonder my shop is so dang small. One of these days I need
> to at least organize them into boxes so I can actually find a particular
> issue.
>
> --
> Larry C in Auburn, WA
>
> "Bubba" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Oooooops.............BOHICA
> >
> > Is anyone else addicted to these things. I buy 'em; read 'em . . . and
> > can't bring myself to throw them away. As a consequence, I have 85
issues
> > of Woodwork Magazine and 168 issues of Fine Woodworking taking up 64
> inches
> > of shelf space in an already crowded study. My wife will probably have
> one
> > helluva bonfire when I cash it in.
> >
> >
>
RWM wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>"> <SNIP>
>>Too bad corporate greed keeps digital ink from blossoming. My recreational
>>reading has been done on an electronic book for the past five or six years
>>and my once yards of bookshelf space in almost every room of the house has
>>been reduced to a couple of CD's. Beside, my eBook holds 50 novels, and
>>those bits and bytes weigh next to nothing when you go to packing for a
>>trip.
>
>
> I am not sure that it is corporate greed that has slowed the momentum of
> e-books. There have been technology issues, and problems with authors who
> are concerned about the potential piracy of their work.
Then they shouldn't publish their work as an E-book. Personally, I hate
E-books. I'm much more comfortable with a 'real' book in my hands, plus
I can carry it outside etc, I can drop it and its ok. Not so with a
'pewter.
You betchum buckwheat, I save them all, except Newsweek. Shop has lots
of different WW mags in plastic milk cartons (christ, here come the
zealots again!) that hold them perfectly, and they are stackable. I
collect stamps and have a nice stash of Linn's Stamp News too, about 3
years worth of the weekly pub boxed.
Bubba wrote:
> Oooooops.............BOHICA
>
> Is anyone else addicted to these things. I buy 'em; read 'em . . . and
> can't bring myself to throw them away. As a consequence, I have 85 issues
> of Woodwork Magazine and 168 issues of Fine Woodworking taking up 64 inches
> of shelf space in an already crowded study. My wife will probably have one
> helluva bonfire when I cash it in.
>
>
"RWM" wrote in message
> I am a bit confused, and admit that I am not current on the cutting edge
of
> pornography How are pornographers taking advantage of e-books? If they
> are, it would be a great signal for the future of e-books.
Read it again, pornographers were used as an example (and an excellent one,
BTW) of those taking advantage of, and making money, using _digital
technology_ . The digital bits and bytes of _both_ publishing endeavors are
identical.
> I have been involved in consumer studies concerning user satisfaction with
> e-books, and the technology has always been rated less than satisfactory
in
> replacement of traditional books. I am also not familiar with Henry Yuen.
> Did he solve the technology issues and still fail?
Don't mean to be snide, but if you are not familiar with Martin Eberhard,
and Henry Yuen/Gemstar's involvement in the technology, and have NOT ever
read a book on one of Eberhard's visionary devices, than it is doubtful you
have enough of a background on the issue to make a judgement call ... which,
BTW, was precisely one of the problems with self-styled Internet writers,
pundits and experts who turned out to be mouthpieces for the publishing
industry.
I don't know who you did your studies on, but someone apparently missed the
bell cow that could well have kick started the revolution ... and that was
Martin Eberhard and his visionary Rocket eBook. While only a first
generation effort, it did the trick of being more than "satisfactory in
replacement of traditional books" to the READER, but obviously NOT to the
short-sighted MBA PUBLISHER, who were mainly scared to death of copying
issues, and of the common folks actually being able to, heaven help us,
publish without them!
At one time, I put my money where my mouth was and invested in R&D in the
technology and I still believe that a revolution is in the offing that will
make the Gutenburg Press pale by comparison ... once we overcome the
corporate greed, inertia, and fuzzy thinking.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/05/04
Swingman,
I've found some of the ReBs on Ebay, and before I consider a purchase,
could you tell me what type of battery they use? Some are missing power
supplies, what would be a good substitute?
--
http://users.adelphia.net/~kyhighland
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Grandpa" wrote in message
>
> > > Suffice it say that if your e-book reading experience has been limited
> to
> > > computer screens, hand-held pda's, and even the "Bookman" or HieBook,
> you
> > > have yet to experience the technology that will eventually replace
> "real"
> > > books for many purposes.
> >
> > On a serious note, then perhaps I'm missing something. Please enlighten
> me.
>
> In a word "electronic books" that are actually designed to be read like a
> "real" book. Most definitely NOT computer screens, or PDA screens!
>
> Once upon a time there was one such device being manufactured that, even
> though it was a first generation device, fulfilled many of the promises
and
> dreams of "electronic books", including the perception of "reading like a
> book". See my recent reply to some of the factors that have thus far kept
> these, and similar devices, more or less unknown and unappreciated.
>
> Since dreaming about a book similar to the one in Neal Stephenson's "The
> Diamond Age" when I was about five, I've kept a close eye on the
technology
> down through the years, and even had a financial interest in the
technology
> at one point, and the NuvoMedia device, which is now defunct, IMO, is the
> only one thus far to come close to the promise.
>
> If you are a student of human history, as most of us come to appreciate as
> we get older, and if you have sufficient perception to appreciate the
> astounding impact of the Gutenberg press on mankind with regard to
> communication, then you have an inkling of what the impact of the
> "electronic book" can foretell.
>
> That serious enough for you? :)
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 2/05/04
>
>
I guess that I don't have much more to say. I told you the methodology for
deriving my opinion and another poster independently gave you the same
opinion, but you don't buy it. Time to move on to other topics.
Bob McBreen
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "RWM" wrote in message
>
> > I was involved in the studies because I was working so some technology
> that
> > required intensive use of electronic screens in non-traditional
> > environments. It was not an e-book, but it had similar use patterns so
> > studying consumer satisfaction with e-books had lots of value. The
> studies
> > were typical satisfaction measurements that focused on participants who
> > either owned a e-book (generic), or who had seriously investigate the
> > purchase of one. Of course, there were lots of issues in addition to
> > technology, but the biggest concern was that the device did not
adequately
> > replace the use of traditional books.
>
> Rarely are these studies NOT skewed in some manner ... because of a number
> of factors, but mostly because they are based on use of hand-held pda's
and
> computer screens. Unfortunately it is an old, and sad, oft repeated myth
in
> the industry .. or what's left of it.
>
> > It is funny, I was just scanning the rest of the tread and found this
> quote
> > from Grandpa, " Personally, I hate E-books. I'm much more comfortable
> with
> > a 'real' book in my hands, plus I can carry it outside etc, I can drop
it
> > and its ok. Not so with a 'pewter." This is the exact sentiment that
was
> > discussed most often in the study.
>
> Nothing funny, or conclusive, about it. See above... and my reply to his
> post. ;>)
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 2/05/04
>
>
RWM wrote:
<snip>
>
> It is funny, I was just scanning the rest of the tread and found this quote
> from Grandpa, " Personally, I hate E-books. I'm much more comfortable with
> a 'real' book in my hands, plus I can carry it outside etc, I can drop it
> and its ok. Not so with a 'pewter." This is the exact sentiment that was
> discussed most often in the study.
I just retired from the computer field and am unaware of any other means
of reading them but as I jsut responded to Swingman, please enlighten me
as perhaps I've missed something - seriously.
Also, my recliner doesn't do well in front of a monitor and my 'pewter
chair doesn't cut it like the recliner does. Can't afford a laptop either!
I don't throw any away either, but in reality I don't have them organized
such that I could ever use them again. Let's see, most of the FWW issues,
all of ShopNotes, I think all of WoodSmith, about 7 years of Wood and
American Woodworker and another I can't think of right now, several years of
Workbench, plus a hundred misc one-off issues of various mags. Boxes and
boxes of the damn things. Then throw in a hundred books and my house isn't
big enough. No wonder my shop is so dang small. One of these days I need
to at least organize them into boxes so I can actually find a particular
issue.
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA
"Bubba" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Oooooops.............BOHICA
>
> Is anyone else addicted to these things. I buy 'em; read 'em . . . and
> can't bring myself to throw them away. As a consequence, I have 85 issues
> of Woodwork Magazine and 168 issues of Fine Woodworking taking up 64
inches
> of shelf space in an already crowded study. My wife will probably have
one
> helluva bonfire when I cash it in.
>
>
"KYHighlander" wrote in message
> Swingman,
>
> I've found some of the ReBs on Ebay, and before I consider a purchase,
> could you tell me what type of battery they use? Some are missing power
> supplies, what would be a good substitute?
As much as I hate to say it, I would be extremely cautious as there no user
support left for the ReB whatsoever, only that which GemStar saw fit to
provide since they decided to shut their operation down, so you will be on
your own.
http://www.gemstar-ebook.com/ebcontent/supt/default.asp
I am very familiar with the devices, have had them apart and even added
memory from one to another which is not supposed to be possible at user
level, but since they are no longer manufactured, I would hesitate to
recommend that anyone purchase one unless it is money you can afford to lose
... that, in itself, is a damn shame, the more I think about it.
The battery is built in and is NOT user changeable. However, I have one that
is six years old and the battery is still operating without problem. Do NOT
buy one without a power supply/battery charger!! Might want to check to see
if you can still register the device so that you could buy content as there
is encryption involved in some of the available content. You must have a
computer with a serial port to load content and you must have the "Rocket
Librarian" software loaded on the computer to communicate with the device
via serial port.
As far as content, you can no longer buy best sellers from Barnes and
Nobles, Amazon, or Powells, however you can roll your own using the old
software and digitized public domain text from places like:
http://www.gutenberg.net/index.shtml
or buy unencrypted ebooks from places like:
http://www.ebookslib.com/
http://www.phoenix-library.org/
In short, caveat emptor!
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/05/04
I was involved in the studies because I was working so some technology that
required intensive use of electronic screens in non-traditional
environments. It was not an e-book, but it had similar use patterns so
studying consumer satisfaction with e-books had lots of value. The studies
were typical satisfaction measurements that focused on participants who
either owned a e-book (generic), or who had seriously investigate the
purchase of one. Of course, there were lots of issues in addition to
technology, but the biggest concern was that the device did not adequately
replace the use of traditional books.
It is funny, I was just scanning the rest of the tread and found this quote
from Grandpa, " Personally, I hate E-books. I'm much more comfortable with
a 'real' book in my hands, plus I can carry it outside etc, I can drop it
and its ok. Not so with a 'pewter." This is the exact sentiment that was
discussed most often in the study.
Bob McBreen
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "RWM" wrote in message
>
> > I am a bit confused, and admit that I am not current on the cutting edge
> of
> > pornography How are pornographers taking advantage of e-books? If they
> > are, it would be a great signal for the future of e-books.
>
> Read it again, pornographers were used as an example (and an excellent
one,
> BTW) of those taking advantage of, and making money, using _digital
> technology_ . The digital bits and bytes of _both_ publishing endeavors
are
> identical.
>
> > I have been involved in consumer studies concerning user satisfaction
with
> > e-books, and the technology has always been rated less than satisfactory
> in
> > replacement of traditional books. I am also not familiar with Henry
Yuen.
> > Did he solve the technology issues and still fail?
>
> Don't mean to be snide, but if you are not familiar with Martin Eberhard,
> and Henry Yuen/Gemstar's involvement in the technology, and have NOT ever
> read a book on one of Eberhard's visionary devices, than it is doubtful
you
> have enough of a background on the issue to make a judgement call ...
which,
> BTW, was precisely one of the problems with self-styled Internet writers,
> pundits and experts who turned out to be mouthpieces for the publishing
> industry.
>
> I don't know who you did your studies on, but someone apparently missed
the
> bell cow that could well have kick started the revolution ... and that was
> Martin Eberhard and his visionary Rocket eBook. While only a first
> generation effort, it did the trick of being more than "satisfactory in
> replacement of traditional books" to the READER, but obviously NOT to the
> short-sighted MBA PUBLISHER, who were mainly scared to death of copying
> issues, and of the common folks actually being able to, heaven help us,
> publish without them!
>
> At one time, I put my money where my mouth was and invested in R&D in the
> technology and I still believe that a revolution is in the offing that
will
> make the Gutenburg Press pale by comparison ... once we overcome the
> corporate greed, inertia, and fuzzy thinking.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 2/05/04
>
>
>
>
>
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "RWM" wrote in message
> >
> > "Swingman" wrote in message
>
> > > "> <SNIP>
> > > Too bad corporate greed keeps digital ink from blossoming. My
> recreational
> > > reading has been done on an electronic book for the past five or six
> years
> > > and my once yards of bookshelf space in almost every room of the house
> has
> > > been reduced to a couple of CD's. Beside, my eBook holds 50 novels,
and
> > > those bits and bytes weigh next to nothing when you go to packing for
a
> > > trip.
> >
> > I am not sure that it is corporate greed that has slowed the momentum of
> > e-books. There have been technology issues, and problems with authors
who
> > are concerned about the potential piracy of their work.
>
>
> Oh, it's corporate greed that plays a big part alright, witness Henry Yuen
> and GemStar's idiotic, short-lived, foray into the business. Replace
> "authors" with "publishers", and you'll be closer to the real truth.
>
> It will take a new way of thinking, of which the traditional corporate
types
> in publishing are apparently incapable. Proof, you say?
>
> Look no further than the pornographers who have been able to adapt to
> digital technology and make billions, even involving the likes of ATT&T
and
> GM into their money making.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 2/05/04
>
>
I am a bit confused, and admit that I am not current on the cutting edge of
pornography How are pornographers taking advantage of e-books? If they
are, it would be a great signal for the future of e-books.
I have been involved in consumer studies concerning user satisfaction with
e-books, and the technology has always been rated less than satisfactory in
replacement of traditional books. I am also not familiar with Henry Yuen.
Did he solve the technology issues and still fail?
Bob McBreen
"Brian L" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I don't feel so bad now.
>
> I'm in the same boat - I've got boxes of magazines in my basement full
> of magazines that aren't organized, and piles of books throughout the
> house - in real convenient locations - bathrooms, bedroom, by the
> computer, etc.
>
> While I might remember the article, I would be hard pressed to find
> the book or magazine. Why do I keep them? I dunno, I sure can't part
> with them.
>
> SWIMBO doesn't understand any of the above, and is constantly urging
> me to throw them away for that very reason. She's constantly
> reminding me that there are literally thousands of dollars tied up in
> books and magazines here.
>
> Oh well. Maybe someday I'll glue them all together and make a cabinet
> out of them.
>
>
> Brian
>
>
She's urging you to throw them away, and then in the same breath telling
you that they are worth thousands of dollars?
Am I the only one going "WTF?!".
Typical SWMBO logic, I guess.....
But it really makes me sad these days to see how reading, books, and
knowledge are denigrated in popular culture...
Swingman wrote:
>> pornography How are pornographers taking advantage of e-books? If
>> they are, it would be a great signal for the future of e-books.
> Read it again, pornographers were used as an example (and an excellent
> one, BTW) of those taking advantage of, and making money, using
> _digital technology_ . The digital bits and bytes of _both_ publishing
> endeavors are identical.
This is patently untrue. Porn consists of images, e-books consist on
words.
Whatever. If e-books were really a good idea, someone, somewhere would
be making them, and making a killing at them.
If you think e-books are so hot, and you believe publishers are stopping
them from being used, then why has not an e-book device/method/standard
come out for freely-available classics whose copyright has expired (and
therefore, have _no_ publisher)? If e-books are so hot, then why have
you not jumped into it and made a killing by starting your own company?
Why did Barnes and Noble declare e-books it's future, and a couple years
later dropped the whole idea because it simply did not fly?
Why are we not seeing the "open source" books (new electronic books
freely written and give away) not taking off as they should? Why does
every experiment a famous writer makes (ie, Stephen King did a "e-book
only" realease some time ago, for example) fail?
The answer is simple: The average book reader would much rather pay the
money to get a nice printed book than get the content for free and either
read it in a screen or print it out and read it that way. It's that
simple.
Maybe you are simply ahead of our time and you can stomach, and even
enjoy reading a book off some electronic device. I cannot (and I am a
hard-core computer programmer by training and trade), nor have I ever
physically run into anyone who likes e-books better than good, ol'
printed books.
> it is doubtful you have enough of a background on the issue to make a
> judgement call ... which, BTW, was precisely one of the problems with
> self-styled Internet writers, pundits and experts who turned out to be
> mouthpieces for the publishing industry.
This is where you are MOST wrong: He IS entitled to make a judgement call
because he is precisely the consumer e-book proponents (and I suppose
that includes you, to a degree since you are so gung ho about it) MUST
win over.
Usability is usability is usability. You don;t need to have a college
degree or spend your life in research to know that something is
uncomfortable to do. If reading a book off a screen is uncomfortable,
then the fact that you have not seen so-and-so's research does not
disqualify you from forming an opinion about it. Specially, it does not
compel you to buy into a technology.
--
gabriel
gabriel notes:
>
>This is patently untrue. Porn consists of images, e-books consist on
>words.
Not true. E-books that I've seen also have pix.
>Whatever. If e-books were really a good idea, someone, somewhere would
>be making them, and making a killing at them.
>
>If you think e-books are so hot, and you believe publishers are stopping
>them from being used, then why has not an e-book device/method/standard
>come out for freely-available classics whose copyright has expired (and
>therefore, have _no_ publisher)? If e-books are so hot, then why have
>you not jumped into it and made a killing by starting your own company?
>
>Why did Barnes and Noble declare e-books it's future, and a couple years
>later dropped the whole idea because it simply did not fly?
Public acceptance. A few years ago, I had more friends who didn't know the
monitor from the keyboard on computers. Today, they know. That acceptance makes
a difference in other things they accept (though I had to buy my wife a new
film camera for Christmas as she definitely didn't want a digital, even after
seeing how easy my complex one could be to use).
>>Why are we not seeing the "open source" books (new electronic books
>freely written and give away) not taking off as they should? Why does
>every experiment a famous writer makes (ie, Stephen King did a "e-book
>only" realease some time ago, for example) fail?
No one I know who writes books is willing to write them for free. That is going
to kick the shit out of any "freely written" material. Or you can go with plain
old jottings from Joe & Jane. People write all the time, almost always for
free. The basic response of readers outside their families: who cares. Stuff is
awful and worse.
Stephen King's venture was on-line, not free, and failed because the customers
stole instead of paying.
>The answer is simple: The average book reader would much rather pay the
>money to get a nice printed book than get the content for free and either
>read it in a screen or print it out and read it that way. It's that
>simple.
>
Tain't neither. Basically, it has not been tried on a wide enough audience with
sophisticated equipment. Too, the equipment is too costly, or was. Prices in
the $300 range for what is essentially a book holder don't help at all, nor did
the cost then of compact flash cards and smart media cards.
I'd like to see continued experimentation with this type of publishing. I tend
to disagree mildly with Swingman about the publishing industry's culpability,
nor about the workability for some types of material and about the convenience
of having 50 book son a handheld device, but, then, I was brought up with
bookshelves and have lots of them in two houses, all filled to overflowing. I'm
not sure I want to give up that ambience, but there will be many others who
don't care.
One thing is sure: eventually, it will change.
Charlie Self
"A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other
way." Mark Twain
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
Charlie Self wrote:
>>This is patently untrue. Porn consists of images, e-books consist on
>>words.
>
> Not true. E-books that I've seen also have pix.
The main content, I mean. Text is pretty irrelevant to porn.
> Public acceptance. A few years ago, I had more friends who didn't know
> the monitor from the keyboard on computers. Today, they know.
Fine, so sales should take off now. I bet you top dollar they do not.
>>>Why are we not seeing the "open source" books (new electronic books
>>freely written and give away) not taking off as they should? Why does
>>every experiment a famous writer makes (ie, Stephen King did a "e-book
>>only" realease some time ago, for example) fail?
> No one I know who writes books is willing to write them for free. That
> is going to kick the shit out of any "freely written" material. Or you
> can go with plain old jottings from Joe & Jane.
Well, you are just not looking in the right places. There are many books
writtent for free, or print books whose contents are released for free.
High quality tomes too. Here is just one one:
Stephen Wolfram's "A New Kind of Science":
http://www.wolframscience.com/nksonline/
There are many more, but because I hate reading off a screen for too long
I just buy the print version.
> People write all the
> time, almost always for free. The basic response of readers outside
> their families: who cares. Stuff is awful and worse.
There are easily over 10000 online public domain (copyright expired and
others) books at the Project Gutenberg alone
(http://www.gutenberg.net/index.shtml). Anyone getting into the e-book
business can easily get content there.
>>either read it in a screen or print it out and read it that way. It's
>>that simple.
> Tain't neither. Basically, it has not been tried on a wide enough
> audience with sophisticated equipment. Too, the equipment is too
> costly, or was. Prices in the $300 range for what is essentially a
> book holder don't help at all, nor did the cost then of compact flash
> cards and smart media cards.
Whatever, if there is money in it someone will do it.
> One thing is sure: eventually, it will change.
I'm not too sure. Flipping a page feels too good. A book takes too long
to read to create a need to carry 500 of 'em in your briefcase. Where it
does make a difference is in reference material (dictionaries, tables,
etc...) and the vast majority of those have already been electronically
produced (how long ago did the first digital dictionary come out? How
long ago did calculators with all sorts of reference tables and functions
come out?).
But it's all just a difference of opinion. Time will tell.
--
gabriel
gabriel responds:
>>>This is patently untrue. Porn consists of images, e-books consist on
>>>words.
>>
>> Not true. E-books that I've seen also have pix.
>
>The main content, I mean. Text is pretty irrelevant to porn.
You need to familiarize yourself with classical literature--move especially
into the Victorian era with the "Store of O" and a few others. No pix at all,
but it sure as hell is porn. Check out Henry Miller's books some time. Again,
no pix, straight word porn.
>There are easily over 10000 online public domain (copyright expired and
>others) books at the Project Gutenberg alone
>(http://www.gutenberg.net/index.shtml). Anyone getting into the e-book
>business can easily get content there.
Fair enough. In general, in the U.S. alone, there are about 45,000 trade books
published annually. Each year. Content of public domain books is not ever going
to be enough, nor has anyone thought it would.
>I'm not too sure. Flipping a page feels too good. A book takes too long
>to read to create a need to carry 500 of 'em in your briefcase. Where it
>does make a difference is in reference material (dictionaries, tables,
>etc...) and the vast majority of those have already been electronically
>produced (how long ago did the first digital dictionary come out? How
>long ago did calculators with all sorts of reference tables and functions
>come out?).
I just sat at our dining room table, reading a mystery and eating ice cream. If
I concentrate on the book, the ice cream dribbles. If I concentrate on the ice
cream, the book slips closed.
I'd guess that kind of thing would stop with the ebook scheme. I won't miss it.
I've been reading at and around meals for a long, long time, and books are a
major part of my life, and always will be. For younger people, they won't be.
Today's kids are largely more used to watching a screen flicker than they are
turning pages.
You say 500 books is too many, but I read, for recreation, at least 150 books
in a bad year. I read closer to 275 in a good year. Having those and a few top
reference tomes on a single, lightweight unit with extended battery power
(without making the mistake of setting it up with proprietary batteries) would
seem nearly ideal to me. Probably seem the same way to a great many college
students, too.
Of course, it will cause another series of disruptions. Printers will fade
away--job printers that is. But, then, a very large percentage of books printed
in English are now printed in China, so that's not necessarily a bad thing.
There are permutations on permutations, and you're right. Time will tell. I'm
no advocate of ebooks, but I can see advantages as well as disadvantages. My
guess is the advantages will win, given enough time and development.
Charlie Self
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you
nothing. It was here first." Mark Twain
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
Charlie Self wrote:
> You need to familiarize yourself with classical literature--move
> especially into the Victorian era with the "Store of O" and a few
> others. No pix at all, but it sure as hell is porn. Check out Henry
> Miller's books some time. Again, no pix, straight word porn.
Hehe, I hope I eventually get time to read that stuff, maybe it's like
those porn pictures sailors from the turn of the century had... I bet it
was hardcore stuff back then!
I have gone to Paris several times, and one of the things they have near
the Moulin Rouge is a museum of sex, which my wife and I visited. Among
some normal and some really strange things they had was really old
"porn" pictures (circa 1900 I think). It's amazing, we see much more
racy (if you can call it that) stuff nowadays even in cartoons!
> Fair enough. In general, in the U.S. alone, there are about 45,000
> trade books published annually. Each year. Content of public domain
> books is not ever going to be enough, nor has anyone thought it would.
Nah it wont be enough for sure. First of all copyright-expired content
is, by definition, expired. Anyway, it would make for a good start for a
company, if, say, they made devices to contain the classics, for example,
and started to do business with schools.
Anyway, I was trying to make the point that the problem with eBook
success is not that someone has to gamble with a few well-written new
good books to experiment, but that the content (which is probably the
most valueable asset a good book, ebook or not, has) is freely available.
All companies have to do is worry about the technology, at least in the
beginning.
> I just sat at our dining room table, reading a mystery and eating ice
> cream. If I concentrate on the book, the ice cream dribbles. If I
> concentrate on the ice cream, the book slips closed.
If I tried to do that, my wife would be the biggest barrier (and with
worse consequences that just loosing your page!), since she prefers I pay
attention to her at the dinner table!
> You say 500 books is too many, but I read, for recreation, at least
> 150 books in a bad year.
I said it was too many to carry around at a time, trying to make the
point that carrying 500 books in a single device at a time was not
necessarily a compelling advantage of e-books.
--
gabriel
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
> I'd guess that kind of thing would stop with the ebook scheme. I won't
miss it.
> I've been reading at and around meals for a long, long time, and books are
a
> major part of my life, and always will be. For younger people, they won't
be.
> Today's kids are largely more used to watching a screen flicker than they
are
> turning pages.
I lean my ReB against the sugar bowl and turn the pages by hitting the
button with the fork handle. There NO flicker whatsoever on the screen. No
lights are necessary to read it at night because the screen is backlit
(SWMBO's love this feature); fonts are adjustable in size if you need
reading glasses, as well as in style; the device turns itself off after ten
minutes of no page turning if you go to sleep; the battery last for a week
of reading to sleep at night; if there is a word I need to lookup, touch the
word and a dictionary pops up with the definition; I can also skim pages and
underline and bookmark passages, and make notes on any of the 50 or so
novels it holds; it recognizes my handwriting/printing; the device feels
like a folded back paper back book when in hand, AND I have a leather cover
for it, which means ALL my books are leather bound! :)
... and this has been going on for six years ... since 1998.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/05/04
Do they still make this ReB? Used to read a lot, but as I grew older my eyes
got weak and I'm too purty to wear glasses.
--
http://users.adelphia.net/~kyhighland
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Charlie Self" wrote in message
>
> > I'd guess that kind of thing would stop with the ebook scheme. I won't
> miss it.
> > I've been reading at and around meals for a long, long time, and books
are
> a
> > major part of my life, and always will be. For younger people, they
won't
> be.
> > Today's kids are largely more used to watching a screen flicker than
they
> are
> > turning pages.
>
> I lean my ReB against the sugar bowl and turn the pages by hitting the
> button with the fork handle. There NO flicker whatsoever on the screen. No
> lights are necessary to read it at night because the screen is backlit
> (SWMBO's love this feature); fonts are adjustable in size if you need
> reading glasses, as well as in style; the device turns itself off after
ten
> minutes of no page turning if you go to sleep; the battery last for a week
> of reading to sleep at night; if there is a word I need to lookup, touch
the
> word and a dictionary pops up with the definition; I can also skim pages
and
> underline and bookmark passages, and make notes on any of the 50 or so
> novels it holds; it recognizes my handwriting/printing; the device feels
> like a folded back paper back book when in hand, AND I have a leather
cover
> for it, which means ALL my books are leather bound! :)
>
> ... and this has been going on for six years ... since 1998.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 2/05/04
>
>
This is an interesting topic. I've been using my Palm IIIx and then my Palm
m130 to read books, on and off, for years now. And I really like it.
However, the books cost almost as much in electronic form as they do in
paperback form. Which doesn't make any sense to me and prevents me from
buying any number of them. But I'm hooked on the concept and I'd jump at
the possibility of getting more books in electronic form. As it is right
now, I have to pay $6.- for a download of a novel that I can buy a any
bookstore for $6.50 and that goes against my sense of fairness. At a price
of $2.- or so, I'd by all of my recreational reading in electronic format.
The ability to bring my books with me wherever I go is very appealing.
Right now, I can slip my Palm into my shirt pocket and my Cisco Flash cards
are always with me. I currently have 8 full length books in my Palm, and I
got plenty of room left over. But the Palm doesn't do well with pictures
due to its small screen, so I don't think I'd by FWW for it even if I could.
I do believe that we need to figure out some kind of standard format before
this will take off. As soon as we have a standard, or something looking
like a standard, the Open Source folks will have the technology licked in no
time at all. And the standard needs to take care of such things as
copyrights and encryption. There has to be a way for the content creators
to be paid.
Having said that, the advantages of the technology will eventually make it
inevitable that it will take over. Just the little fact that you can vary
the font size to suit your particular stage of presbyopia is priceless. The
backlight making reading lights obsolete, the easy way of putting in a
bookmark, not to mention the advantage for those of us who sometimes, read
more than one book at a time.
I have no doubt that this technology will come, I just hope it gets here
before it is too late for me to take advantage of it.
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> gabriel notes:
>
> >
> >This is patently untrue. Porn consists of images, e-books consist on
> >words.
>
> Not true. E-books that I've seen also have pix.
>
> >Whatever. If e-books were really a good idea, someone, somewhere would
> >be making them, and making a killing at them.
> >
> >If you think e-books are so hot, and you believe publishers are stopping
> >them from being used, then why has not an e-book device/method/standard
> >come out for freely-available classics whose copyright has expired (and
> >therefore, have _no_ publisher)? If e-books are so hot, then why have
> >you not jumped into it and made a killing by starting your own company?
> >
> >Why did Barnes and Noble declare e-books it's future, and a couple years
> >later dropped the whole idea because it simply did not fly?
>
> Public acceptance. A few years ago, I had more friends who didn't know the
> monitor from the keyboard on computers. Today, they know. That acceptance
makes
> a difference in other things they accept (though I had to buy my wife a
new
> film camera for Christmas as she definitely didn't want a digital, even
after
> seeing how easy my complex one could be to use).
>
> >>Why are we not seeing the "open source" books (new electronic books
> >freely written and give away) not taking off as they should? Why does
> >every experiment a famous writer makes (ie, Stephen King did a "e-book
> >only" realease some time ago, for example) fail?
>
> No one I know who writes books is willing to write them for free. That is
going
> to kick the shit out of any "freely written" material. Or you can go with
plain
> old jottings from Joe & Jane. People write all the time, almost always for
> free. The basic response of readers outside their families: who cares.
Stuff is
> awful and worse.
>
> Stephen King's venture was on-line, not free, and failed because the
customers
> stole instead of paying.
>
> >The answer is simple: The average book reader would much rather pay the
> >money to get a nice printed book than get the content for free and either
> >read it in a screen or print it out and read it that way. It's that
> >simple.
> >
>
> Tain't neither. Basically, it has not been tried on a wide enough audience
with
> sophisticated equipment. Too, the equipment is too costly, or was. Prices
in
> the $300 range for what is essentially a book holder don't help at all,
nor did
> the cost then of compact flash cards and smart media cards.
>
> I'd like to see continued experimentation with this type of publishing. I
tend
> to disagree mildly with Swingman about the publishing industry's
culpability,
> nor about the workability for some types of material and about the
convenience
> of having 50 book son a handheld device, but, then, I was brought up with
> bookshelves and have lots of them in two houses, all filled to
overflowing. I'm
> not sure I want to give up that ambience, but there will be many others
who
> don't care.
>
> One thing is sure: eventually, it will change.
>
> Charlie Self
> "A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no
other
> way." Mark Twain
> http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:51:16 +0000, gabriel <[email protected]> wrote:
>Charlie Self wrote:
>
>>>This is patently untrue. Porn consists of images, e-books consist on
>>>words.
>>
>> Not true. E-books that I've seen also have pix.
>
>The main content, I mean. Text is pretty irrelevant to porn.
there's a whole sub-genre of porn called erotic fiction that has no
pictures at all, just text.
>
>> Public acceptance. A few years ago, I had more friends who didn't know
>> the monitor from the keyboard on computers. Today, they know.
>
>Fine, so sales should take off now. I bet you top dollar they do not.
not until the presentation media get better and the culture of reading
adapts. it'll take a while.
>
>>>>Why are we not seeing the "open source" books (new electronic books
>>>freely written and give away) not taking off as they should? Why does
>>>every experiment a famous writer makes (ie, Stephen King did a "e-book
>>>only" realease some time ago, for example) fail?
>> No one I know who writes books is willing to write them for free. That
>> is going to kick the shit out of any "freely written" material. Or you
>> can go with plain old jottings from Joe & Jane.
>
>Well, you are just not looking in the right places. There are many books
>writtent for free, or print books whose contents are released for free.
>High quality tomes too. Here is just one one:
>
>Stephen Wolfram's "A New Kind of Science":
>
>http://www.wolframscience.com/nksonline/
>
>There are many more, but because I hate reading off a screen for too long
>I just buy the print version.
>
>> People write all the
>> time, almost always for free. The basic response of readers outside
>> their families: who cares. Stuff is awful and worse.
>
>There are easily over 10000 online public domain (copyright expired and
>others) books at the Project Gutenberg alone
>(http://www.gutenberg.net/index.shtml). Anyone getting into the e-book
>business can easily get content there.
>
>
>>>either read it in a screen or print it out and read it that way. It's
>>>that simple.
>> Tain't neither. Basically, it has not been tried on a wide enough
>> audience with sophisticated equipment. Too, the equipment is too
>> costly, or was. Prices in the $300 range for what is essentially a
>> book holder don't help at all, nor did the cost then of compact flash
>> cards and smart media cards.
>
>Whatever, if there is money in it someone will do it.
>
>> One thing is sure: eventually, it will change.
>
>I'm not too sure. Flipping a page feels too good. A book takes too long
>to read to create a need to carry 500 of 'em in your briefcase.
ever read 2 or 3 books at once? even as a student?
> Where it
>does make a difference is in reference material (dictionaries, tables,
>etc...) and the vast majority of those have already been electronically
>produced (how long ago did the first digital dictionary come out? How
>long ago did calculators with all sorts of reference tables and functions
>come out?).
>
>But it's all just a difference of opinion. Time will tell.
On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 23:51:30 +0000, gabriel <[email protected]> wrote:
>Bridger wrote:
>
>> the bits and bytes are the same. they're just arranged differently.
>
>??? Was this a serious reply or just being a smarty pants?
it's a literal one. take it as smarty pants if you want, but when you
make an argument based on semantics you should be precise in your use
of language.
On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 22:49:25 +0000, gabriel <[email protected]> wrote:
>Swingman wrote:
>
>>> pornography How are pornographers taking advantage of e-books? If
>>> they are, it would be a great signal for the future of e-books.
>> Read it again, pornographers were used as an example (and an excellent
>> one, BTW) of those taking advantage of, and making money, using
>> _digital technology_ . The digital bits and bytes of _both_ publishing
>> endeavors are identical.
>
>This is patently untrue. Porn consists of images, e-books consist on
>words.
>
the bits and bytes are the same. they're just arranged differently.
Me too except I also have Wood, Fime Woodworking, Fine Homebuilding,
Woodsmith, Shop Notes, Rifle, Handloader and a couple of others.
What DO you do with them? They have WAY too much good data in them to
just throw them away. Guess I ought to learn how to use my scanner and
start scanning them in. Problem is, I have no idea what I will want to
know/look at in the future.
On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 13:19:18 GMT, "Bubba"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Oooooops.............BOHICA
>
>Is anyone else addicted to these things. I buy 'em; read 'em . . . and
>can't bring myself to throw them away. As a consequence, I have 85 issues
>of Woodwork Magazine and 168 issues of Fine Woodworking taking up 64 inches
>of shelf space in an already crowded study. My wife will probably have one
>helluva bonfire when I cash it in.
>
"Grandpa" wrote in message
> RWM wrote:
> Then they shouldn't publish their work as an E-book. Personally, I hate
> E-books. I'm much more comfortable with a 'real' book in my hands, plus
> I can carry it outside etc, I can drop it and its ok. Not so with a
> 'pewter.
Suffice it say that if your e-book reading experience has been limited to
computer screens, hand-held pda's, and even the "Bookman" or HieBook, you
have yet to experience the technology that will eventually replace "real"
books for many purposes.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/05/04
Swingman responds:
>> Then they shouldn't publish their work as an E-book. Personally, I hate
>> E-books. I'm much more comfortable with a 'real' book in my hands, plus
>> I can carry it outside etc, I can drop it and its ok. Not so with a
>> 'pewter.
>
>Suffice it say that if your e-book reading experience has been limited to
>computer screens, hand-held pda's, and even the "Bookman" or HieBook, you
>have yet to experience the technology that will eventually replace "real"
>books for many purposes.
I've not seen this technology, but I have some trouble envisioning truly tough
electronic circuitry, the kind of tough that will take the battering even a
paperback will take. I'd like to see something along that line, as I am
learning a little more about electronic publishing almost daily, and hope to
eventually turn out some good quality CD books for woodworkers. Slower going
than I thought for a variety of reasons, starting with a house fire and then
getting complex (little things like learning book layout, checking out some of
the programs used to lay out print and e-books, etc.).
My concept still involves a computer, primarily because I know zip about any
other form of electronic publishing. That may change, but at the moment, I
don't see it. There's nothing out there on a large enough basis for me to work
at making the transition. If I do my books in formats that only one person in
100 (since we're already into a specialized audience called woodworkers) how
many am I apt to sell? That may be greed, but someone somewhere has to pay my
bills while I work.
So, should I google on Bookman and HieBook to see what's workable? Or is out of
sight? Will digging back a message or 2 and googling on your names help? I'm
gonna give it a try.
Charlie Self
"A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other
way." Mark Twain
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
Swingman wrote:
> Next biggest bugaboo is digital copying. Digital Rights Management is
> ostensibly the biggest factor/excuse for the publishing industry being
> scared to move forward with digital publishing.
Just one note: This is a BS excuse. If you standardized on a cartridge
format that does not exist yet, the you can effectively prevent copying,
specially of something so relatively undesireable as the text of a book.
How do I know? Just look at the gaming industry. They have a problem
with PC games because everyone has CD burners and many hackers can
program a PC to circumvent copy protection. But they do _not_ have a
huge problem in console games.
How hard is it to copy an XBox game? Well, XBox games are stored in a
special DVD format called DVD9. This is a super-high density storage
technology, giving each DVD a potential data storage space much larger
than what they would ever want to put into a single game. Why did MS go
this route? Because consumer burners for this technology are many years
away. Unless you're a techie gamer, this is probably the first time you
hear of DVD9. If MS' gamble pays off, DVD9 will never become a consumer
technology. The result? The damned ganmes are extremely hard and
expensive to copy. Anyone even thinking about copying the games better
think about that $50K investment, and maybe put his money in a legal
business, maybe producing legal DVD9 disks for game makers?
All right, let's look at another gaming techniology not often pirated:
The video game cartridges (like Nintendo or Atari). These things have
special plugs not very easy to find. In order to copy the contents, you
have to know your electrical engineering really well, because you will
have to create a custom device to read the data. Then you have to create
a chip and a circuit board to hold the copied game. Then you have to
figure out how to actually make the copy. By the time you're done with
all of that, you spent much more than the danged game cost you!
Now, let's say that given today's technology to combine one of these two
methods with encryption... You are home free. Let's say your e-books
cost the same as a normal printed book. Will pirating the content be
worth it? Absolutely not!
So I don't buy the "protect our intellectual property" argument one bit.
If anything, publishers are trying very hard to do the following:
1) Charge per person, not per copy of the book. They would love to
charge per set of eyes that reads the book.
2) Make it self-destructing. Books that last forever are a pain in the
ass for publishers because even though you keep it for 20 years, you only
paid the initial cost.
3) Make it absolutely non-resellable. When Amazon started it's used book
marketplace (you look up a book and Amazon shows you the price of a used
book together with the new book), publishers started crying because the
used book marketplace would eat into their sales, and they were right.
So, my guess is that publishers are trying to change the business model,
to one very much like software, where the intellectual property owner
retains huge control over how you use the software (ie, MS Office "dials
home" every time you install it, and refuses to continue working if you
modify your computer too much).
--
gabriel
Ebooks are not for everything, but I started using them for novels on
my Pocket PC. For some reason I found them easy to read, especially
when I am eating breakfast or excercising on a stationary bike. It is
much easier to hold and turn the pages under those conditions. The
problem I found was that popular novels were costing as much as a
hardcover. Although I bought a few, I felt that that did not make
sense. Don't want to argue the logic here, but I know that did not
help expand ebooks. I don't think they make sense for magazines like
Fine Woodworking, etc. But for novels, I felt they were great.
Anything with pictures resulted in a less than a satisfactory
experience. The pictures were just too small.
[email protected] (Charlie Self) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Swingman responds:
> >> Then they shouldn't publish their work as an E-book. Personally, I hate
> >> E-books. I'm much more comfortable with a 'real' book in my hands, plus
> >> I can carry it outside etc, I can drop it and its ok. Not so with a
> >> 'pewter.
> >
> >Suffice it say that if your e-book reading experience has been limited to
> >computer screens, hand-held pda's, and even the "Bookman" or HieBook, you
> >have yet to experience the technology that will eventually replace "real"
> >books for many purposes.
>
> I've not seen this technology, but I have some trouble envisioning truly tough
> electronic circuitry, the kind of tough that will take the battering even a
> paperback will take. I'd like to see something along that line, as I am
> learning a little more about electronic publishing almost daily, and hope to
> eventually turn out some good quality CD books for woodworkers. Slower going
> than I thought for a variety of reasons, starting with a house fire and then
> getting complex (little things like learning book layout, checking out some of
> the programs used to lay out print and e-books, etc.).
>
> My concept still involves a computer, primarily because I know zip about any
> other form of electronic publishing. That may change, but at the moment, I
> don't see it. There's nothing out there on a large enough basis for me to work
> at making the transition. If I do my books in formats that only one person in
> 100 (since we're already into a specialized audience called woodworkers) how
> many am I apt to sell? That may be greed, but someone somewhere has to pay my
> bills while I work.
>
> So, should I google on Bookman and HieBook to see what's workable? Or is out of
> sight? Will digging back a message or 2 and googling on your names help? I'm
> gonna give it a try.
>
>
> Charlie Self
> "A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other
> way." Mark Twain
> http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
"Eric Anderson" wrote in message
> The problem I found was that popular novels were costing as much as a
> hardcover. Although I bought a few, I felt that that did not make
> sense. Don't want to argue the logic here, but I know that did not
> help expand ebooks.
There was no logic ... it defied all common sense, but that's the current
publishing industry for you.
> I don't think they make sense for magazines like
> Fine Woodworking, etc. But for novels, I felt they were great.
> Anything with pictures resulted in a less than a satisfactory
> experience. The pictures were just too small.
They didn't, but they could, and eventually will. Actually, there was one
device, the "SoftBook", that would do magazine format, but it was very
expensive and as big as magazine. GemStar killed it also.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/05/04
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
> My concept still involves a computer, primarily because I know zip about
any
> other form of electronic publishing. That may change, but at the moment, I
> don't see it. There's nothing out there on a large enough basis for me to
work
> at making the transition. If I do my books in formats that only one person
in
> 100 (since we're already into a specialized audience called woodworkers)
how
> many am I apt to sell? That may be greed, but someone somewhere has to pay
my
> bills while I work.
Sorry I didn't reply to this part of your message earlier, but I was doing a
complicated glue-up in steps and couldn't leave it for more than a few
minutes at a time. (OBWW) ;>)
Unfortunately, you've hit the current 'state of affairs' nail on the head.
It doesn't have to be that way, because the technology has been there for a
while, but it currently _is_ that way because of issues I alluded to in
other posts with regard to the publishing industry, along with the
following, current 'show stoppers':
What is reckoned to be the largest factor of general non-acceptance thus far
is a no brainer - "Cost", due to economies of scale. Those in the know
reckon that a reading device must sell for well under $100 to gain
ubiquitous acceptance by the masses, and preferably "free". Thus far the
best devices have been double or triple that. Many reckon that once
economies of scale kick in, reading devices will likely be given away as an
adjunct to purchases.
Standardization on a format which can be used by different manufacturers has
been the next biggest fly in the ointment, and is probably more responsible,
in combination with cost, in non-acceptance thus far. One of the factors in
this regard is that Microsoft got into the fray, wrongmindedly as usual, and
muddied the waters to the extent that they have yet to clear.
Next biggest bugaboo is digital copying. Digital Rights Management is
ostensibly the biggest factor/excuse for the publishing industry being
scared to move forward with digital publishing. They, like the recording
industry, simply do not have a clue how to handle digital rights, nor do
they understand how to create a business model to take advantage of digital
publishing. NuvoMedia had a workable solution to this to a great extent, but
NO encryption system in current use is hack proof and easy enough for
publisher and consumer alike. However, NuvoMedia/GemStar's encryption system
did work, and worked well for a couple of years. Barnes and Nobles, and
Powell's, sold many best sellers in NM's format, and so did GemStar, but the
publishing industry never really got behind it. GemStar had a shot a getting
it right, but was reckoned too greedy in the final analysis.
The least important aspect, but one that was hyped in the media and the
Internet, is/was the misconception that you've seen propounded here today as
THE reason. That is, the actual experience of "reading a book" is missing in
e-book devices. Nothing could be further from the truth for most people who
have actually tried a well designed device like NuvoMedia's. However, the
publishing industry was all to eager to get behind this misconception and
make sure it got plenty of publicity. What you get is opinions from those
who have never used a good device, particularly the all too predictable
"computer screen" and "pda" analogies, which are comparing apples and
oranges Then there are those who will only be dragged kicking and screaming
to any kind of "change". I will say this, damn few lovers of reading and
books who have spent overnight reading NM's original device are willing to
give it up, and I've never met a single one. I can't tell you how many 'off
the cuff' presentations I've given in air terminals and restaurants when
folks see me reading one that really does "read like a book".
None of this does much for your efforts in self publishing, but have heart.
The big factors for acceptance - cost, standardization, and digital rights
management, will be solved in the not too distant future. And the newer
nanotechnology that is on the drawing board will mean that you will be able
to fold up your entire library and stick it in your pocket.
ITMT, if you want to pursue digital publishing on your own, I'd say (and
hate to do so) that Microsoft Reader probably has the most ubiquitous
acceptance on the most device, such as they are ... but at this point you
still have to figure out a way to protect your intellectual property from
unauthorized copying.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/05/04
Swingman writes:
>ITMT, if you want to pursue digital publishing on your own, I'd say (and
>hate to do so) that Microsoft Reader probably has the most ubiquitous
>acceptance on the most device, such as they are ... but at this point you
>still have to figure out a way to protect your intellectual property from
>unauthorized copying.
Well, my efforts are a lot more mundane, I'm afraid. The essential book is
going to be a book, done on a CD, with PDF formatting.
Any writer learns to accept the fact that the occasional theft of copy will
happen. There really isn't much that can be done, because catching the culprits
is nearly impossible. That said, an astonishingly large percentage of the
public is honest and won't steal even given the chance, so the odds are good I
can make enough money (especially since everything is mine to keep after
expenses that do NOT include 85-90% to the publisher and bookseller) from each
book to make it worthwhile, IF I can figure out the marketing end. Just putting
the offer up on my web site, when I get one, is not apt to be enough.
But that's probably 8-10 months away now. I'd like to get it rolling in time
for the Christmas market, but who knows. All my predictions in the past 26
months have laid themselves out below the holes on a busy two seater, so
there's no reason to expect a change now.
Charlie Self
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you
nothing. It was here first." Mark Twain
http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
Charlie,
Do books on tape have anti-piracy tech? It seems to be a lot easier to
pirate a audio cassette than a CD, yet books on tape must make money or they
wouldn't exist. I actually wish they would offer the books on tape as books
on CD as I have a CD player in my truck and not a tape player. The only tape
player I own sits next to the TV and the wife would have a seizure if I were
to turn it off to listen to a book.
--
http://users.adelphia.net/~kyhighland
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Swingman writes:
>
> >ITMT, if you want to pursue digital publishing on your own, I'd say (and
> >hate to do so) that Microsoft Reader probably has the most ubiquitous
> >acceptance on the most device, such as they are ... but at this point you
> >still have to figure out a way to protect your intellectual property from
> >unauthorized copying.
>
> Well, my efforts are a lot more mundane, I'm afraid. The essential book is
> going to be a book, done on a CD, with PDF formatting.
>
> Any writer learns to accept the fact that the occasional theft of copy
will
> happen. There really isn't much that can be done, because catching the
culprits
> is nearly impossible. That said, an astonishingly large percentage of the
> public is honest and won't steal even given the chance, so the odds are
good I
> can make enough money (especially since everything is mine to keep after
> expenses that do NOT include 85-90% to the publisher and bookseller) from
each
> book to make it worthwhile, IF I can figure out the marketing end. Just
putting
> the offer up on my web site, when I get one, is not apt to be enough.
>
> But that's probably 8-10 months away now. I'd like to get it rolling in
time
> for the Christmas market, but who knows. All my predictions in the past 26
> months have laid themselves out below the holes on a busy two seater, so
> there's no reason to expect a change now.
>
> Charlie Self
> "Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you
> nothing. It was here first." Mark Twain
>
> http://hometown.aol.com/charliediy/myhomepage/business.html
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
> Well, my efforts are a lot more mundane, I'm afraid. The essential book is
> going to be a book, done on a CD, with PDF formatting.
In the current market place, that is a wise choice of formats and makes a
helluva of a lot of sense.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/05/04
Swingman wrote:
<snip.
>
> Thus far the only acclaimed "satisfactory reading experience" has been on
> the Rocket eBook (and I've tried, and tested, them all).
I just googled on that to see what it was all about. Best I can tell
its still a computer, plus it looks like the outfit has gone TUTO, Tits
Up & Taking On Water. Not much of an endorsement but then not much is
permanent anymore.
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
> So, should I google on Bookman and HieBook to see what's workable? Or is
out of
> sight? Will digging back a message or 2 and googling on your names help?
I'm
> gonna give it a try.
Thus far the only acclaimed "satisfactory reading experience" has been on
the Rocket eBook (and I've tried, and tested, them all). Had its reception
been met on the publishing side with the same vision and foresight as went
into its design, you would see school kids walking around without back packs
at this point. ... and you have to keep in mind that it was a first
generation device.
Unfortunately, I would not recommend either the Bookman, or the HieBook as
an introduction to e-book readers as they are not nearly as well designed,
or as ergonomic, as the ReB, which is no longer being produced. It was
proverbially "ahead of its time".
I own all three, and four ReB's. Other than magazines, I have read NOTHING
but a ReB since 1998, and I read vociferously (spent as much as $200/month
on books prior to that time). BUT, I have had to confine my recreational
reading to what is in the public domain for the past couple of years because
of the issues on publishing side of the coin.
While you may still be able to find a ReB on eBay, my advice is to wait for
"digital ink" based on nanotechnology ... those who (mis)judge the reading
experience solely on prejudicial experience with computer screens and pda's
will likely favor the next wave of technology.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/05/04
Swingman wrote:
> "Grandpa" <jsdebooATcomcast.net> wrote in message
>
>>Swingman wrote:
>>
>><snip.
>>
>>>Thus far the only acclaimed "satisfactory reading experience" has been
>
> on
>
>>>the Rocket eBook (and I've tried, and tested, them all).
>>
>>I just googled on that to see what it was all about. Best I can tell
>>its still a computer, plus it looks like the outfit has gone TUTO, Tits
>>Up & Taking On Water. Not much of an endorsement but then not much is
>>permanent anymore.
>
>
> Thanks for proving my earlier point .. your pre-conceived notions are
> deceiving you already. You've never held one in your hands, yet you're
> already settling in your mind that it is a computer and therefore implying
> that reading on it will be like "reading on a computer" ... you could not be
> more wrong.
>
Nope, never have, and it doesn't look like I soon will as not many (if
any at all) are available either. B&N no longer does ebooks, a site the
appeared to be recommended by someone here has gone TUTO. If it walks
like a duck and quacks like a duck... Now I don't mean to sound
ungrateful but when I asked for was info, seriously, all I got was
philosophical mumbo jumbo. You're certainly not making a valid case for
ebboks or the readers for such. In case you forgot, here's what you posted:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
In a word "electronic books" that are actually designed to be read like
a "real" book. Most definitely NOT computer screens, or PDA screens!
Once upon a time there was one such device being manufactured that, even
though it was a first generation device, fulfilled many of the promises
and dreams of "electronic books", including the perception of "reading
like a book". See my recent reply to some of the factors that have thus
far kept these, and similar devices, more or less unknown and unappreciated.
Since dreaming about a book similar to the one in Neal Stephenson's "The
Diamond Age" when I was about five, I've kept a close eye on the
technology down through the years, and even had a financial interest in
the technology at one point, and the NuvoMedia device, which is now
defunct, IMO, is the only one thus far to come close to the promise.
If you are a student of human history, as most of us come to appreciate
as we get older, and if you have sufficient perception to appreciate the
astounding impact of the Gutenberg press on mankind with regard to
communication, then you have an inkling of what the impact of the
"electronic book" can foretell.
That serious enough for you?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Tell me what it looks like or how it works or point me to a site that
has one I can look at a pic of. Doing a quick search turned up software
for reading them on laptops and PCs as well as some sites with eooks
available. I saw nothing of what a physical reading device looks like,
so I assume its still a 'pewter in the generic sense. I can throw a
paperback at the neighbors freaking cat when it tries to kill the birds
in my yard, and still read it afterwards, and it cost me under $5.
Betcha can't claim the same with an ebook reader.
"Grandpa" <jsdebooATcomcast.net> wrote in message
> Swingman wrote:
>
> <snip.
> >
> > Thus far the only acclaimed "satisfactory reading experience" has been
on
> > the Rocket eBook (and I've tried, and tested, them all).
>
> I just googled on that to see what it was all about. Best I can tell
> its still a computer, plus it looks like the outfit has gone TUTO, Tits
> Up & Taking On Water. Not much of an endorsement but then not much is
> permanent anymore.
Thanks for proving my earlier point .. your pre-conceived notions are
deceiving you already. You've never held one in your hands, yet you're
already settling in your mind that it is a computer and therefore implying
that reading on it will be like "reading on a computer" ... you could not be
more wrong.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/05/04
"RWM" wrote in message
> I was involved in the studies because I was working so some technology
that
> required intensive use of electronic screens in non-traditional
> environments. It was not an e-book, but it had similar use patterns so
> studying consumer satisfaction with e-books had lots of value. The
studies
> were typical satisfaction measurements that focused on participants who
> either owned a e-book (generic), or who had seriously investigate the
> purchase of one. Of course, there were lots of issues in addition to
> technology, but the biggest concern was that the device did not adequately
> replace the use of traditional books.
Rarely are these studies NOT skewed in some manner ... because of a number
of factors, but mostly because they are based on use of hand-held pda's and
computer screens. Unfortunately it is an old, and sad, oft repeated myth in
the industry .. or what's left of it.
> It is funny, I was just scanning the rest of the tread and found this
quote
> from Grandpa, " Personally, I hate E-books. I'm much more comfortable
with
> a 'real' book in my hands, plus I can carry it outside etc, I can drop it
> and its ok. Not so with a 'pewter." This is the exact sentiment that was
> discussed most often in the study.
Nothing funny, or conclusive, about it. See above... and my reply to his
post. ;>)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/05/04
"RWM" wrote in message
> I guess that I don't have much more to say. I told you the methodology
for
> deriving my opinion and another poster independently gave you the same
> opinion, but you don't buy it.
You're correct, I don't buy it. Unfortunately, it's an all too familiar and
tired old saw from folks who are operating from preconceived notions and who
are equally unfamiliar with the concept and the technology. It is notable
that the same mentality has pooh poohed almost every technological advance
from the wheel to the moon lander.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/05/04
Swingman wrote:
> "Grandpa" wrote in message
>
>>RWM wrote:
>
>
>>Then they shouldn't publish their work as an E-book. Personally, I hate
>>E-books. I'm much more comfortable with a 'real' book in my hands, plus
>>I can carry it outside etc, I can drop it and its ok. Not so with a
>>'pewter.
>
>
> Suffice it say that if your e-book reading experience has been limited to
> computer screens, hand-held pda's, and even the "Bookman" or HieBook, you
> have yet to experience the technology that will eventually replace "real"
> books for many purposes.
On a serious note, then perhaps I'm missing something. Please enlighten me.
"Larry C in Auburn, WA" wrote in message
> I don't throw any away either, but in reality I don't have them organized
> such that I could ever use them again. Let's see, most of the FWW issues,
> all of ShopNotes, I think all of WoodSmith, about 7 years of Wood and
> American Woodworker and another I can't think of right now, several years
of
> Workbench, plus a hundred misc one-off issues of various mags. Boxes and
> boxes of the damn things. Then throw in a hundred books and my house
isn't
> big enough. No wonder my shop is so dang small. One of these days I need
> to at least organize them into boxes so I can actually find a particular
> issue.
Mine go into the 'library', on a built-in bookshelf next to the water
closet. I pick one at random every morning and continually find new projects
that I want to start immediately after the current one is finished ... then
back on the shelf it goes, perhaps never to be seen again except by random
fate.
Too bad corporate greed keeps digital ink from blossoming. My recreational
reading has been done on an electronic book for the past five or six years
and my once yards of bookshelf space in almost every room of the house has
been reduced to a couple of CD's. Beside, my eBook holds 50 novels, and
those bits and bytes weigh next to nothing when you go to packing for a
trip.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/05/04
"Grandpa" wrote in message
> > Suffice it say that if your e-book reading experience has been limited
to
> > computer screens, hand-held pda's, and even the "Bookman" or HieBook,
you
> > have yet to experience the technology that will eventually replace
"real"
> > books for many purposes.
>
> On a serious note, then perhaps I'm missing something. Please enlighten
me.
In a word "electronic books" that are actually designed to be read like a
"real" book. Most definitely NOT computer screens, or PDA screens!
Once upon a time there was one such device being manufactured that, even
though it was a first generation device, fulfilled many of the promises and
dreams of "electronic books", including the perception of "reading like a
book". See my recent reply to some of the factors that have thus far kept
these, and similar devices, more or less unknown and unappreciated.
Since dreaming about a book similar to the one in Neal Stephenson's "The
Diamond Age" when I was about five, I've kept a close eye on the technology
down through the years, and even had a financial interest in the technology
at one point, and the NuvoMedia device, which is now defunct, IMO, is the
only one thus far to come close to the promise.
If you are a student of human history, as most of us come to appreciate as
we get older, and if you have sufficient perception to appreciate the
astounding impact of the Gutenberg press on mankind with regard to
communication, then you have an inkling of what the impact of the
"electronic book" can foretell.
That serious enough for you? :)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/05/04
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "> <SNIP>
> Too bad corporate greed keeps digital ink from blossoming. My recreational
> reading has been done on an electronic book for the past five or six years
> and my once yards of bookshelf space in almost every room of the house has
> been reduced to a couple of CD's. Beside, my eBook holds 50 novels, and
> those bits and bytes weigh next to nothing when you go to packing for a
> trip.
I am not sure that it is corporate greed that has slowed the momentum of
e-books. There have been technology issues, and problems with authors who
are concerned about the potential piracy of their work.
Bob McBreen
I don't feel so bad now.
I'm in the same boat - I've got boxes of magazines in my basement full of
magazines that aren't organized, and piles of books throughout the house -
in real convenient locations - bathrooms, bedroom, by the computer, etc.
While I might remember the article, I would be hard pressed to find the book
or magazine. Why do I keep them? I dunno, I sure can't part with them.
SWIMBO doesn't understand any of the above, and is constantly urging me to
throw them away for that very reason. She's constantly reminding me that
there are literally thousands of dollars tied up in books and magazines
here.
Oh well. Maybe someday I'll glue them all together and make a cabinet out
of them.
Brian
"Bubba" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Oooooops.............BOHICA
>
> Is anyone else addicted to these things. I buy 'em; read 'em . . . and
> can't bring myself to throw them away. As a consequence, I have 85 issues
> of Woodwork Magazine and 168 issues of Fine Woodworking taking up 64
inches
> of shelf space in an already crowded study. My wife will probably have
one
> helluva bonfire when I cash it in.
>
>