summary for hf clamps

On 11/5/2015 8:04 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 11/05/2015 7:41 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 11/5/2015 2:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 4:45:48 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>> .
>>>>> I'm thinking about some clamps pads that I have that fall off if
>>>>> they are
>>>>> not held on when clamping (almost the same as using scraps) vs. some
>>>>> clamps
>>>>> that have fitted pads semi-permanently attached. (Look Ma, no hands!)
>>>>
>>>> Double stick carpet tape.
>>>
>>> Before we had all the nice clamp options that we enjoy now, first by
>>> necessity and second by need, we used to drill tiny holes in the metal
>>> faces of our Pony clamps, bar clamps, etc, and screw pieces of white
>>> pine on them (from the back)to make softer, wider jaws. Worked like a
>>> champ, and got the additional clamping power of making a jaw as wide
>>> as you wanted. Since we used a lot of 1x2 cedar when I was framing
>>> houses (think shingle molding and vent trims) we simply cut off six
>>> inch pieces as needed and screwed them on the faces when we were doing
>>> cabinet work. They did great as they spread the compressed load across
>>> a surface more evenly, and even added to the utility of the clamp by
>>> its increased jaw size.
>>>
>>> With today's plastic jaws with larger faces, I am sure double stick
>>> tape would do the trick.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>> Maybe even a wooden pad with rare earth magnets embedded in the back
>> side. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll have to see of a magnet will stick to the
>> Jet clamp surface.
>
> I just got accustomed to using a full-length caul resting on the clamp
> bodies so never worried about the individual pads...it's still so
> ingrown a practice I don't even think of pads...guess everybody grows up
> different. :)
>
> --
Yeah! I don't want to have anything other than the clamp and the
project. BUT I do use a couple of pieces of plywood for helping to
insure that rails fit properly at the ends of stiles on cabinet doors.
And that uses 8 clamps initially and then just 2 once everything is
squared up.

On 11/5/2015 11:25 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 11/5/2015 2:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 4:45:48 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>> .
>>>>> I'm thinking about some clamps pads that I have that fall off if
>>>>> they are not held on when clamping (almost the same as using
>>>>> scraps) vs. some clamps that have fitted pads semi-permanently
>>>>> attached. (Look Ma, no hands!)
>>>>
>>>> Double stick carpet tape.
>>>
>>> Before we had all the nice clamp options that we enjoy now, first by
>>> necessity and second by need, we used to drill tiny holes in the
>>> metal faces of our Pony clamps, bar clamps, etc, and screw pieces of
>>> white pine on them (from the back)to make softer, wider jaws. Worked like
>>> a champ, and got the additional clamping power of making
>>> a jaw as wide as you wanted. Since we used a lot of 1x2 cedar when I
>>> was framing houses (think shingle molding and vent trims) we simply
>>> cut off six inch pieces as needed and screwed them on the faces when
>>> we were doing cabinet work. They did great as they spread the
>>> compressed load across a surface more evenly, and even added to the
>>> utility of the clamp by its increased jaw size. With today's
>>> plastic jaws with larger faces, I am sure double stick
>>> tape would do the trick. Robert
>>>
>> Maybe even a wooden pad with rare earth magnets embedded in the back
>> side. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll have to see of a magnet will stick to
>> the Jet clamp surface.
>
> Not a doubt in my mind this would work, but then again my simplistic mind
> goes to wondering why bother going to such an extent? Culls, two sided tape
> (as mentioned earlier), etc. seem to make such a much easier, and stratight
> forward approach. Sometimes this groujp can go so damned far to find a
> solution to a simple problem.
>
Yeah! The simplest solution I have been using so far is using that Jet
pair of clamps LAST. LOL The tape would would be the easiest and a
starting point, magnets later if the tape became a hassle and not holding.

On 11/5/2015 9:20 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> On 11/5/2015 7:41 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 11/5/2015 2:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 4:45:48 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>> .
>>>>>
> [snip]
>
>>> With today's plastic jaws with larger faces, I am sure double stick
>>> tape would do the trick.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>> Maybe even a wooden pad with rare earth magnets embedded in the back
>> side. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll have to see of a magnet will stick to
>> the Jet clamp surface.
>
> If you can find some of that magnetic rubber tape or the magnetic
> business card stock (think refrigerator magnets, sort of)
>
> Back in the day I made up some 2" squares of ¼" ply, glued a 3/4" piece
> of that stock to the back and it worked fine. All you really need is
> "that extra hand" to hold the wood pad in place until you can tighten
> down the clamp. Wasn't ideal but it worked when I needed it.
>
>
>
>
I wonder if that would be strong enough to go through the plastic on the
clamp and hold the wood pad.

On 11/5/2015 10:54 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 9:29:26 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 11/5/2015 7:41 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 11/5/2015 2:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 4:45:48 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>>> .
>>>>>> I'm thinking about some clamps pads that I have that fall off if
>>>>>> they are
>>>>>> not held on when clamping (almost the same as using scraps) vs. some
>>>>>> clamps
>>>>>> that have fitted pads semi-permanently attached. (Look Ma, no hands!)
>>>>>
>>>>> Double stick carpet tape.
>>>>
>>>> Before we had all the nice clamp options that we enjoy now, first by
>>>> necessity and second by need, we used to drill tiny holes in the metal
>>>> faces of our Pony clamps, bar clamps, etc, and screw pieces of white
>>>> pine on them (from the back)to make softer, wider jaws. Worked like a
>>>> champ, and got the additional clamping power of making a jaw as wide
>>>> as you wanted. Since we used a lot of 1x2 cedar when I was framing
>>>> houses (think shingle molding and vent trims) we simply cut off six
>>>> inch pieces as needed and screwed them on the faces when we were doing
>>>> cabinet work. They did great as they spread the compressed load
>>>> across a surface more evenly, and even added to the utility of the
>>>> clamp by its increased jaw size.
>>>>
>>>> With today's plastic jaws with larger faces, I am sure double stick
>>>> tape would do the trick.
>>>>
>>>> Robert
>>>>
>>> Maybe even a wooden pad with rare earth magnets embedded in the back
>>> side. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll have to see of a magnet will stick to
>>> the Jet clamp surface.
>>>
>>>
>> OK!
>> The rare earth magnets do stick to the faces of the Jet K-body style
>> clamps rather well. I'll put that in line to be done.
>>
>> Thanks for the suggestion Derby!
>>
> It's nice to be able to give back. ;-)
>
Old dogs can learn new tricks. ;~) I have know about doing what you
suggested but never put 2+2 2gether. ;~)

On Saturday, November 7, 2015 at 3:53:55 PM UTC-5, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "John McCoy" wrote:
>
>
> As desirable as that is, eventually you run into the twin
> > problems of it being too expensive and too fast for safety
> > on any available course.
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Cost doesn't seem to be a problem for L Ellison or Bill Koch when
> they won the America's Cup in their respective years.
>
> OTOH, neither one of them were going to lose.
>
> Whatever it took.
>
> Lew

"Cost" was one of the 2 main reasons the Soap Box Derby Masters division
almost became extinct. Having the expertise to build a highly customized car
was the other. The thing is, you really can't have one without the other.

Building a highly customized car was not cheap, nor were all of the weekend
trips to other cities to race. Weekend rallies were used for 2 things: seat time
for your driver and testing of different tune-ups, weight distributions, etc.

It was no coincidence that the families that we saw at rallies weekend
after weekend were the same families that qualified to race in the World
Championship races in Akron, year after year.

The problem was, those of us with highly customized cars (and high spend
rates) were the ones winning all the races. Eventually, the other families
stopped showing up and many families never even bothered getting into the
Masters division. Their kids would race in the 2 lower divisions and then move
on to other activities.

There was a few years when the 6 driver minimum at the weekend rallies couldn't be met.
Instead of not racing, 1 or 2 fake names were placed on the grids so the other kids
could race. Akron made believe that they didn't know what was going on for a while but
eventually had no choice but to eliminate the customizations. It worked. It took a
few years, but the Masters Division, while still the smallest division, is thriving now.

It still takes some expertise to build a good Masters car and it still cost more
to build a good Masters car when compared to the lower divisions, but it's back
to being within reach of almost all families that want to move up.

On Tuesday, November 10, 2015 at 1:34:05 PM UTC-5, John McCoy wrote:
> Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in news:564143ef$0$52103
> [email protected]:
>
> > Does giving the human the ability to turn right make auto racing a sport?
> >
> > *Grinning, ducking, and running.*
>
> At the late, lamented Hialeah speedway they would occasionally
> stop the entry-level race half way thru, turn everyone around,
> and finish the race going clockwise. The result was usually
> hilarious, because the guys who had been fastest invariably
> became slowest...
>
> John

Why would that be? Driving a race car isn't just about turning. If
the fastest drivers were more highly skilled in all aspects of racing,
why would the less talented drivers "invariably" outpace (pun intended)
them at those skills?

Electric Comet <[email protected]> writes:
>On Thu, 05 Nov 2015 08:04:44 -0600
>dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I just got accustomed to using a full-length caul resting on the
>> clamp bodies so never worried about the individual pads...it's still
>> so ingrown a practice I don't even think of pads...guess everybody
>> grows up different. :)
>
>i had never seen cauls until recently
>might have been lee valley but not sure
>
>they were not cheap but i like the idea it is clever and gives some
>more versatility to the clamps i have

Buying a caul seems pretty silly for a woodworker.

You do realize that woodworkers were quite successful without
pipe clamps, fancy K-bodies or any manufactured clamp?

Consider what you can do with a couple of wedges and a caul,
for example.

The caul should be slightly sprung.

On 11/5/2015 7:41 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 11/5/2015 2:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 4:45:48 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>> .
>>>>
[snip]

>> With today's plastic jaws with larger faces, I am sure double stick
>> tape would do the trick.
>>
>> Robert
>>
> Maybe even a wooden pad with rare earth magnets embedded in the back
> side. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll have to see of a magnet will stick to
> the Jet clamp surface.

If you can find some of that magnetic rubber tape or the magnetic
business card stock (think refrigerator magnets, sort of)

Back in the day I made up some 2" squares of ¼" ply, glued a 3/4" piece
of that stock to the back and it worked fine. All you really need is
"that extra hand" to hold the wood pad in place until you can tighten
down the clamp. Wasn't ideal but it worked when I needed it.

On 11/5/2015 12:28 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 11/5/2015 9:20 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>> On 11/5/2015 7:41 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 11/5/2015 2:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 4:45:48 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>>> .
>>>>>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>> With today's plastic jaws with larger faces, I am sure double stick
>>>> tape would do the trick.
>>>>
>>>> Robert
>>>>
>>> Maybe even a wooden pad with rare earth magnets embedded in the back
>>> side. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll have to see of a magnet will stick to
>>> the Jet clamp surface.
>>
>> If you can find some of that magnetic rubber tape or the magnetic
>> business card stock (think refrigerator magnets, sort of)
>>
>> Back in the day I made up some 2" squares of ¼" ply, glued a 3/4" piece
>> of that stock to the back and it worked fine. All you really need is
>> "that extra hand" to hold the wood pad in place until you can tighten
>> down the clamp. Wasn't ideal but it worked when I needed it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> I wonder if that would be strong enough to go through the plastic on the
> clamp and hold the wood pad.

I seriously doubt it. Not enough drawing power. As I said it wasn't
ideal but it worked for me. Think: just enough to hold the square of
plywood in place while tightening the clamp. It was very easy to knock
loose but for my purposes it was entirely adequate.

If I understand where you're going with my tip, I would think that a
rare earth magnet, properly inlet/recessed to the pad and held by a
touch of silicone would probably do the trick, "penetrating" the plastic
and attracting to the metal behind it.

Those rare earth magnets are kinda neat. They have a helluva lot of
pulling power for their small size. Seen some innovative gun mounts
made of them after being coated with rubber. A couple strategically
placed have no problem holding a 21oz to 35oz pistol horizontally or
vertically to a metal surface.

"John McCoy" wrote:


As desirable as that is, eventually you run into the twin
> problems of it being too expensive and too fast for safety
> on any available course.
----------------------------------------------------------
Cost doesn't seem to be a problem for L Ellison or Bill Koch when
they won the America's Cup in their respective years.

OTOH, neither one of them were going to lose.

Whatever it took.

Lew

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> That has already been done, it is called a video game.
>
> Removing the human from the car would and calling it a sport would be
> like calling chess a sport.
>


Does giving the human the ability to turn right make auto racing a sport?

*Grinning, ducking, and running.*

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 3:53:20 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 12:29:02 -0800 (PST)
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > They eventually outlawed all but the most basic modifications and
> > outlawed homemade parts. It is now only the driver and the tuning of
> > the car that determines the outcome. Both of those factors are huge,
> > but not near as much fun as building your own axle mounts, steering
> > systems, etc.
>
> i always thought that any racing sport should have an unlimited class
> competition
>

In essence, the All American Soap Box Derby does have an "unlimited class".

It's known as the Ultimate Speed Program. It was instituted for those
teams that wanted to continue to build homemade cars, but it's not for
the faint of heart. I know one team that spent over $100K testing and
building a car. The team was led by a guy who owns a company that makes
bob sleds for a number of Olympic teams, so he had the facilities, the
engineers and the labor to build a winning car.

Do a Google image search for "soap box ultimate speed" for some
cool images of Ultimate Speed cars.

There's a picture about 4 rows down of a driver lying flat on her back.
She is wearing prism glasses so that she can look through a small window
at the front of the car. Once the hatch is closed, the car is completely
smooth along the top.

We modified a Masters division car for my daughter to drive in the Ultimate
race. The only team we beat was a team that took a Thule car top ski
carrier and added some wheels. (2nd row down on the image search, the last
last I looked) We didn't expect to do very well, but it got us one more
year of building and racing, so it was worth it.

On 11/8/2015 3:52 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Sun, 8 Nov 2015 21:11:14 -0000 (UTC)
> John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Well, that would be another way to bring racing to an end.
>
> still requires human ingenuity
>
> you are saying it is only sport if someone can die at it
>
> why not remove the danger element and place the control into remote
> hands


That has already been done, it is called a video game.

Removing the human from the car would and calling it a sport would be
like calling chess a sport.





>
>> If there's no human in it, it's no longer a sporting
>> competition, and spectator interest will rapidly approach
>> zero.
>
> lsr is a huge spectator sport
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 12:09:52 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Greg Guarino wrote:
>> On 10/31/2015 1:39 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>
>>> sounds like the quick release bar clamps and the aluminum bar clamps
>>> are the only ones worth it
>>
>> My only experience with the HF aluminum bar clamps is in the store.
>> They seemed very flimsy.
>
>I haven't bought any or even looked at any in the store in several years,
>but the ones I own are as substantial as one could expect from a clamp of
>this style. They have never failed me nor shown any signs of weakness or
>poor design.

A good number of the ones I bought about seven or eight years ago
broke. The ends are cast and *very* brittle. It's a PITA to have the
clamp break when the glue is wet (and it always is when the clamp
breaks).

On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 12:33:23 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 11/6/2015 10:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> Snip
>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Those rare earth magnets are kinda neat. They have a helluva lot of
> >>> pulling power for their small size. Seen some innovative gun mounts
> >>> made of them after being coated with rubber. A couple strategically
> >>> placed have no problem holding a 21oz to 35oz pistol horizontally or
> >>> vertically to a metal surface.
> >>>
> >> My first introduction to those magnets were when I was still in the
> >> automotive business, 20 plus years ago. I was working for an AC/Delco
> >> wholesale distributor. There was a particular part that came in a small
> >> box about 1.5 x1.5 x1.5 inches. You could not pick the small box up off
> >> of the steel bin with out the box opening and coming apart. You had to
> >> slide the box to the edge of the shelf to overcome the pull of the
> >> magnet. The part was a small wiper motor part. IIRC it had 4, 3/8"
> >> long by 2mm diameter magnets evenly spaced around a round piece. The
> >> magnets looked like wooden pencil leads. There could have been a dozen
> >> of those parts in the tiny box.
> >
> > My first introduction to rare earth magnets was when I was building Soap
> > Box Derby cars.
> >
> > No, I didn't hide them in the front end for extra pull out of the
> > starting ramp. ;-)
> >
> > http://www.ohio.com/news/local/soap-box-derby-marks-40th-anniversary-of-famous-cheating-scandal-1.415481
> >
> > We used them to hold down the hatch of the Masters cars. With a pair of
> > round rare earth magnets epoxied to both sides of the hatch up near the
> > driver's head, the hatch stayed down on the bumpiest of tracks or
> > even if we turned the car upside down, yet allowed for easy opening by
> > either the driver or the handler. The hatch is hinged right above the
> > #35 and extends back almost to the label on the side of the helmet.
> >
> > http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/photobucket-10369-1399345975500_zps65263f4d.jpg
> >
> > Some builders used Velcro straps or metal latches that the driver had to
> > engage/disengage from inside car. The rare earth magnets did their thing
> > with no user intervention required. While accidents were rare, I'd seen
> > enough that I wanted to allow for easy opening of the hatch either from
> > the inside or the outside just in case.
> >
> Very cool car! some how I was picturing an orange crate with wheels.
> LOL Great work!
>
>

Thanks. My son won the World Championship in Akron with that car when he
was 13. That was back when you bought the kit from Akron but could still
make your own internal parts, modify the shape of the body, etc.

As people like me got more and more sophisticated regarding the mods, it
got to a point where only those teams doing extensive modifications were
winning. That caused the Masters division to get smaller and smaller,
until it was on the brink of extinction.

They eventually outlawed all but the most basic modifications and outlawed
homemade parts. It is now only the driver and the tuning of the car that
determines the outcome. Both of those factors are huge, but not near as
much fun as building your own axle mounts, steering systems, etc.

As an example, compare the shape of today's Masters car vs. my son's.

http://www.ohio.com/polopoly_fs/1.416582.1374985320!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_500/derby28cut-17.jpg

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/photobucket-10369-1399345975500_zps65263f4d.jpg

They were both built from the same kit, but the modern car is basically a
fiberglass shell screwed to the floorboard. My son's car is the same
fiberglass shell screwed to the same floorboard but then rounded to
be more aerodynamic and wrapped in 3 layers of fiberglass cloth and
epoxy to stiffen the body. We reduced the size of the car to so close to
the minimum girth that the blue vinyl racing stripe was added just to make
sure we passed the girth measurement in Akron.

The internal parts were almost completely home made. For example, the
kit comes with a rear axle mount that isn't much more than a piece of
angle iron and couple of bolts. Bolt the angle iron to the floorboard,
then bolt the axle to angle iron.

In contrast, this is the rear axle mounting system that we made:

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/photobucket-2663-1399345879852_zpsf3c61506.jpg

Ah well, those were the days.

On 11/2/2015 10:15 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 11/2/2015 8:44 AM, dpb wrote:
>> On 11/02/2015 8:06 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 10/31/2015 12:39 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>>>
>>>> sounds like the quick release bar clamps and the aluminum bar clamps
>>>> are the
>>>> only ones worth it
>>>
>>> FWIW even high quality aluminum bar clamps are not very useful. They all
>>> bend very easily under light pressure. I have 6 and only use them as a
>>> last resort.
>> ...
>>
>> Try those from Dubuque Clamp Works...
>>
>> <http://www.thonline.com/news/business/article_4c1b143a-bff2-5dd4-869c-47c8a63cff52.html>
>>
>>
>>
>> There are several resellers; as the above article notes they've
>> deliberately chosen to not go direct...
>>
>>
>> <https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/CDC/item/MS-ABAR.XX>
>>
>> I've some of unknown manufacturer that are t-bar rails like the best old
>> cabinet clamps with a very hard/stiff Al (I presume aircraft) alloy. But
>> afaict there's nobody currently manufacturing such any longer. These
>> were obtained from the shop of the old codger in Lynchburg of whom I've
>> spoken previously when he was beginning to slow down and starting to
>> limit the size and quantity of work he was doing. They're all 48"...
>>
>> --
> Those are exactly the ones I am talking about, and I paid more, ;~(,
> that that 25+ years ago.
>
> If you click on the B&W inset photo and enlarge you can make out
> Universal Clamp Company on the side of the screw end of the clamp. Those
> are mine exactly. They are OK but have small clamping heads and the
> bars bend easily. I have the 48 and 72 inch varieties.
Leon, we have already established you're a gorilla when it comes to
clamping. (broken Cabinet masters).

I clamp tight, but not ridiculously tight.

I do find that I use my aluminum clamps when weight is a problem. Or if
I just want to. I don't find them to be so bad.

--
Jeff

On 10/31/2015 1:39 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>
> sounds like the quick release bar clamps and the aluminum bar clamps are the
> only ones worth it

The quick release "SAME AS BESSEY" C clamps are ok too.
I have an older set of alum bar clamps. They are nice and thick compared
to Jet and some others. Not sure about the current crop.
>
> the quick release ratcheting clamps with the pistol grip are no good and have
> no power
>
> but i have a tiny set of the pistol-grip ratcheting clamps and i find uses for
> them for small stuff
>
> i was hand planing and went off the edge and caused a splinter
> the splinter did not come free so i put a dab a glue and a small clamp
> and it was just right
>

--
Jeff

On 11/9/2015 7:10 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> That has already been done, it is called a video game.
>>
>> Removing the human from the car would and calling it a sport would be
>> like calling chess a sport.
>>
>
>
> Does giving the human the ability to turn right make auto racing a sport?


>
> *Grinning, ducking, and running.*
>
> Puckdropper
>


thought it was left. ;~) Like watching tennis.

On 11/6/2015 2:53 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 12:29:02 -0800 (PST)
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> They eventually outlawed all but the most basic modifications and
>> outlawed homemade parts. It is now only the driver and the tuning of
>> the car that determines the outcome. Both of those factors are huge,
>> but not near as much fun as building your own axle mounts, steering
>> systems, etc.
>
> i always thought that any racing sport should have an unlimited class
> competition
>
> sailing
> car racing
> etc
>
> maybe just have some very basic criteria like has to have at least 2 wheels
> or must have a sail and a hull
>
> i thought drag racing with funny cars and dragsters were unlimited but
> maybe i misremember
>
>

I think street racing is the only unregulated racing, other than
breaking the law.

Maybe street racing in a hybrid or "Smart for 2" car would be legal.
;~) I don't think you can be ticked for speeding if you are not
actually speeding

In article <[email protected]>,
Puckdropper says...
>
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> >
> > That has already been done, it is called a video game.
> >
> > Removing the human from the car would and calling it a sport would be
> > like calling chess a sport.
> >
>
>
> Does giving the human the ability to turn right make auto racing a sport?
>
> *Grinning, ducking, and running.*

That criticism went out the door the day A.J. Foyt won LeMans.

On 11/5/2015 2:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 4:45:48 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
> .
>>> I'm thinking about some clamps pads that I have that fall off if they are
>>> not held on when clamping (almost the same as using scraps) vs. some clamps
>>> that have fitted pads semi-permanently attached. (Look Ma, no hands!)
>>
>> Double stick carpet tape.
>
> Before we had all the nice clamp options that we enjoy now, first by necessity and second by need, we used to drill tiny holes in the metal faces of our Pony clamps, bar clamps, etc, and screw pieces of white pine on them (from the back)to make softer, wider jaws. Worked like a champ, and got the additional clamping power of making a jaw as wide as you wanted. Since we used a lot of 1x2 cedar when I was framing houses (think shingle molding and vent trims) we simply cut off six inch pieces as needed and screwed them on the faces when we were doing cabinet work. They did great as they spread the compressed load across a surface more evenly, and even added to the utility of the clamp by its increased jaw size.
>
> With today's plastic jaws with larger faces, I am sure double stick tape would do the trick.
>
> Robert
>
Maybe even a wooden pad with rare earth magnets embedded in the back
side. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll have to see of a magnet will stick to
the Jet clamp surface.

Electric Comet <[email protected]> writes:
>On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 08:44:56 -0600
>dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Try those from Dubuque Clamp Works...
>
>had never heard of these
>i read a review on one of their odd clamps with the novel grip mechanism
>
>the reviewer complained that the face of the clamp left a mark on his
>piece

Or more likely, the reviewer expected them to be similar
to the Bessy K-Body clamps, where it is unnecessary to
protect the work from the clamp face.

Aside from Dubuque being a very pretty place (particularly
arriving from US 61 N), those clamps are quite nice and
affordable. The small clamp face does require clamping
pads to avoid marring the work.

If you consider Iowa to be flat, you've never been to Dubuque.

Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> i always thought that any racing sport should have an unlimited class
> competition

As desirable as that is, eventually you run into the twin
problems of it being too expensive and too fast for safety
on any available course.

> maybe just have some very basic criteria like has to have at least 2
> wheels or must have a sail and a hull

Pretty much all forms of car racing require exactly 4 wheels,
and they have to be on the 4 corners of the car (this rule
being because someone built a car with 3 wheels on one side,
and 1 on the other).

> i thought drag racing with funny cars and dragsters were unlimited but
> maybe i misremember

No, drag racing hasn't had an unlimited class since the
50's (or maybe early 60's). The only unlimited class I
can think of would be LSR at Bonneville.

John

Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote in news:n1o07v$ore$1
@dont-email.me:

> On Sat, 7 Nov 2015 17:06:33 -0000 (UTC)
> John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> As desirable as that is, eventually you run into the twin
>> problems of it being too expensive and too fast for safety
>> on any available course.
>
> you are thinking inside the box

Well, 40-odd years of experience says there isn't an outside
to that box. The last unlimited automobile race series was
the Can-Am in the late 60s, early 70s. Which ended because
it was simply too fast and too expensive.

>> No, drag racing hasn't had an unlimited class since the
>> 50's (or maybe early 60's). The only unlimited class I
>> can think of would be LSR at Bonneville.
>
> interesting and dangerous but not unlimited it seems but close
> i would remove the human from the vehicle and make it autonomous

Well, that would be another way to bring racing to an end.
If there's no human in it, it's no longer a sporting
competition, and spectator interest will rapidly approach
zero.

John

Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in news:564143ef$0$52103
[email protected]:

> Does giving the human the ability to turn right make auto racing a sport?
>
> *Grinning, ducking, and running.*

At the late, lamented Hialeah speedway they would occasionally
stop the entry-level race half way thru, turn everyone around,
and finish the race going clockwise. The result was usually
hilarious, because the guys who had been fastest invariably
became slowest...

John

On 11/4/2015 2:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 11:39:17 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 11/4/2015 10:31 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> Electric Comet <[email protected]> writes:
>>>> On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 08:44:56 -0600
>>>> dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Try those from Dubuque Clamp Works...
>>>>
>>>> had never heard of these
>>>> i read a review on one of their odd clamps with the novel grip mechanism
>>>>
>>>> the reviewer complained that the face of the clamp left a mark on his
>>>> piece
>>>
>>> Or more likely, the reviewer expected them to be similar
>>> to the Bessy K-Body clamps, where it is unnecessary to
>>> protect the work from the clamp face.
>>
>> TRUE! Same style Jet clamp, Not so true. If Jet would fix this their
>> clamps would be great with more features than Bessey and the Cabinet
>> Masters combined.
>>
>>
>
> Having not used any of the 3 aforementioned clamps, this question comes
> from a deep, deep state of ignorance...
>
> How hard would it be to fashion a "false front" for the Jet clamps to
> eliminate the marring?

Probably not too hard but certainly harder than simply buying the same
priced Jorgensen Cabinet Master clamps. The only advantage that the Jet
has IHMO in this comparison is that it has a release trigger that holds
the moveable end in place. And that is not that is not that big of a
deal. If the Jet's came with the non mar surface they would get the nod.



>
> I'm thinking about some clamps pads that I have that fall off if they are
> not held on when clamping (almost the same as using scraps) vs. some clamps
> that have fitted pads semi-permanently attached. (Look Ma, no hands!)

Double stick carpet tape.

>
> Couldn't something be done with the Jet clamps to turn them into the
> superior clamps that you want them to be?
>

On 11/4/2015 10:31 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Electric Comet <[email protected]> writes:
>> On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 08:44:56 -0600
>> dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Try those from Dubuque Clamp Works...
>>
>> had never heard of these
>> i read a review on one of their odd clamps with the novel grip mechanism
>>
>> the reviewer complained that the face of the clamp left a mark on his
>> piece
>
> Or more likely, the reviewer expected them to be similar
> to the Bessy K-Body clamps, where it is unnecessary to
> protect the work from the clamp face.

TRUE! Same style Jet clamp, Not so true. If Jet would fix this their
clamps would be great with more features than Bessey and the Cabinet
Masters combined.


>
> Aside from Dubuque being a very pretty place (particularly
> arriving from US 61 N), those clamps are quite nice and
> affordable. The small clamp face does require clamping
> pads to avoid marring the work.

I used the exact same aluminum clamps for years and oddly I don't ever
recall the clamps faces marring the work and I did not use scraps. In
fact the only clamps that I have used that do mar the wood are the Jet
clones and the old style pipe clamps.


>
> If you consider Iowa to be flat, you've never been to Dubuque.
>

On 11/5/2015 7:41 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 11/5/2015 2:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 4:45:48 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>> .
>>>> I'm thinking about some clamps pads that I have that fall off if
>>>> they are
>>>> not held on when clamping (almost the same as using scraps) vs. some
>>>> clamps
>>>> that have fitted pads semi-permanently attached. (Look Ma, no hands!)
>>>
>>> Double stick carpet tape.
>>
>> Before we had all the nice clamp options that we enjoy now, first by
>> necessity and second by need, we used to drill tiny holes in the metal
>> faces of our Pony clamps, bar clamps, etc, and screw pieces of white
>> pine on them (from the back)to make softer, wider jaws. Worked like a
>> champ, and got the additional clamping power of making a jaw as wide
>> as you wanted. Since we used a lot of 1x2 cedar when I was framing
>> houses (think shingle molding and vent trims) we simply cut off six
>> inch pieces as needed and screwed them on the faces when we were doing
>> cabinet work. They did great as they spread the compressed load
>> across a surface more evenly, and even added to the utility of the
>> clamp by its increased jaw size.
>>
>> With today's plastic jaws with larger faces, I am sure double stick
>> tape would do the trick.
>>
>> Robert
>>
> Maybe even a wooden pad with rare earth magnets embedded in the back
> side. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll have to see of a magnet will stick to
> the Jet clamp surface.
>
>
OK!
The rare earth magnets do stick to the faces of the Jet K-body style
clamps rather well. I'll put that in line to be done.

Thanks for the suggestion Derby!

I still think that would be a deal killer for future Jet clamps but a
solution for the pair that I do have.

On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 1:34:04 PM UTC-5, krw wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 12:09:52 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Greg Guarino wrote:
> >> On 10/31/2015 1:39 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> >>
> >>> sounds like the quick release bar clamps and the aluminum bar clamps
> >>> are the only ones worth it
> >>
> >> My only experience with the HF aluminum bar clamps is in the store.
> >> They seemed very flimsy.
> >
> >I haven't bought any or even looked at any in the store in several years,
> >but the ones I own are as substantial as one could expect from a clamp of
> >this style. They have never failed me nor shown any signs of weakness or
> >poor design.
>
> A good number of the ones I bought about seven or eight years ago
> broke. The ends are cast and *very* brittle. It's a PITA to have the
> clamp break when the glue is wet (and it always is when the clamp
> breaks).

And that surprises you?

Odds are that they won't break while being removed or while hanging on a hook.

On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 08:29:17 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 11/5/2015 7:41 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 11/5/2015 2:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 4:45:48 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>> .
>>>>> I'm thinking about some clamps pads that I have that fall off if
>>>>> they are
>>>>> not held on when clamping (almost the same as using scraps) vs. some
>>>>> clamps
>>>>> that have fitted pads semi-permanently attached. (Look Ma, no hands!)
>>>>
>>>> Double stick carpet tape.
>>>
>>> Before we had all the nice clamp options that we enjoy now, first by
>>> necessity and second by need, we used to drill tiny holes in the metal
>>> faces of our Pony clamps, bar clamps, etc, and screw pieces of white
>>> pine on them (from the back)to make softer, wider jaws. Worked like a
>>> champ, and got the additional clamping power of making a jaw as wide
>>> as you wanted. Since we used a lot of 1x2 cedar when I was framing
>>> houses (think shingle molding and vent trims) we simply cut off six
>>> inch pieces as needed and screwed them on the faces when we were doing
>>> cabinet work. They did great as they spread the compressed load
>>> across a surface more evenly, and even added to the utility of the
>>> clamp by its increased jaw size.
>>>
>>> With today's plastic jaws with larger faces, I am sure double stick
>>> tape would do the trick.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>> Maybe even a wooden pad with rare earth magnets embedded in the back
>> side. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll have to see of a magnet will stick to
>> the Jet clamp surface.
>>
>>
>OK!
>The rare earth magnets do stick to the faces of the Jet K-body style
>clamps rather well. I'll put that in line to be done.
>
>Thanks for the suggestion Derby!
>
>I still think that would be a deal killer for future Jet clamps but a
>solution for the pair that I do have.

Sounds like another business for you. ;-)

On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 11:39:17 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 11/4/2015 10:31 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > Electric Comet <[email protected]> writes:
> >> On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 08:44:56 -0600
> >> dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Try those from Dubuque Clamp Works...
> >>
> >> had never heard of these
> >> i read a review on one of their odd clamps with the novel grip mechanism
> >>
> >> the reviewer complained that the face of the clamp left a mark on his
> >> piece
> >
> > Or more likely, the reviewer expected them to be similar
> > to the Bessy K-Body clamps, where it is unnecessary to
> > protect the work from the clamp face.
>
> TRUE! Same style Jet clamp, Not so true. If Jet would fix this their
> clamps would be great with more features than Bessey and the Cabinet
> Masters combined.
>
>

Having not used any of the 3 aforementioned clamps, this question comes
from a deep, deep state of ignorance...

How hard would it be to fashion a "false front" for the Jet clamps to
eliminate the marring?

I'm thinking about some clamps pads that I have that fall off if they are
not held on when clamping (almost the same as using scraps) vs. some clamps
that have fitted pads semi-permanently attached. (Look Ma, no hands!)

Couldn't something be done with the Jet clamps to turn them into the
superior clamps that you want them to be?

On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 9:29:26 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 11/5/2015 7:41 AM, Leon wrote:
> > On 11/5/2015 2:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> >> On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 4:45:48 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
> >> .
> >>>> I'm thinking about some clamps pads that I have that fall off if
> >>>> they are
> >>>> not held on when clamping (almost the same as using scraps) vs. some
> >>>> clamps
> >>>> that have fitted pads semi-permanently attached. (Look Ma, no hands!)
> >>>
> >>> Double stick carpet tape.
> >>
> >> Before we had all the nice clamp options that we enjoy now, first by
> >> necessity and second by need, we used to drill tiny holes in the metal
> >> faces of our Pony clamps, bar clamps, etc, and screw pieces of white
> >> pine on them (from the back)to make softer, wider jaws. Worked like a
> >> champ, and got the additional clamping power of making a jaw as wide
> >> as you wanted. Since we used a lot of 1x2 cedar when I was framing
> >> houses (think shingle molding and vent trims) we simply cut off six
> >> inch pieces as needed and screwed them on the faces when we were doing
> >> cabinet work. They did great as they spread the compressed load
> >> across a surface more evenly, and even added to the utility of the
> >> clamp by its increased jaw size.
> >>
> >> With today's plastic jaws with larger faces, I am sure double stick
> >> tape would do the trick.
> >>
> >> Robert
> >>
> > Maybe even a wooden pad with rare earth magnets embedded in the back
> > side. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll have to see of a magnet will stick to
> > the Jet clamp surface.
> >
> >
> OK!
> The rare earth magnets do stick to the faces of the Jet K-body style
> clamps rather well. I'll put that in line to be done.
>
> Thanks for the suggestion Derby!
>
It's nice to be able to give back. ;-)

On Friday, November 6, 2015 at 10:09:47 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 11/5/2015 1:22 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> > On 11/5/2015 12:28 PM, Leon wrote:
> >> On 11/5/2015 9:20 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> >>> On 11/5/2015 7:41 AM, Leon wrote:
> >>>> On 11/5/2015 2:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> >>>>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 4:45:48 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
> >>>>> .
> >>>>>>>
> >>> [snip]
> >>>
> >>>>> With today's plastic jaws with larger faces, I am sure double stick
> >>>>> tape would do the trick.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Robert
> >>>>>
> >>>> Maybe even a wooden pad with rare earth magnets embedded in the back
> >>>> side. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll have to see of a magnet will stick t=
o
> >>>> the Jet clamp surface.
> >>>
> >>> If you can find some of that magnetic rubber tape or the magnetic
> >>> business card stock (think refrigerator magnets, sort of)
> >>>
> >>> Back in the day I made up some 2" squares of =BC" ply, glued a 3/4" p=
iece
> >>> of that stock to the back and it worked fine. All you really need is
> >>> "that extra hand" to hold the wood pad in place until you can tighten
> >>> down the clamp. Wasn't ideal but it worked when I needed it.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> I wonder if that would be strong enough to go through the plastic on t=
he
> >> clamp and hold the wood pad.
> >
> > I seriously doubt it. Not enough drawing power. As I said it wasn't
> > ideal but it worked for me. Think: just enough to hold the square of
> > plywood in place while tightening the clamp. It was very easy to knock
> > loose but for my purposes it was entirely adequate.
> >
> > If I understand where you're going with my tip, I would think that a
> > rare earth magnet, properly inlet/recessed to the pad and held by a
> > touch of silicone would probably do the trick, "penetrating" the plasti=
c
> > and attracting to the metal behind it.
>=20
> That would be the plan.
>=20
> >
> > Those rare earth magnets are kinda neat. They have a helluva lot of
> > pulling power for their small size. Seen some innovative gun mounts
> > made of them after being coated with rubber. A couple strategically
> > placed have no problem holding a 21oz to 35oz pistol horizontally or
> > vertically to a metal surface.
> >
> My first introduction to those magnets were when I was still in the=20
> automotive business, 20 plus years ago. I was working for an AC/Delco=20
> wholesale distributor. There was a particular part that came in a small=
=20
> box about 1.5 x1.5 x1.5 inches. You could not pick the small box up off=
=20
> of the steel bin with out the box opening and coming apart. You had to=
=20
> slide the box to the edge of the shelf to overcome the pull of the=20
> magnet. The part was a small wiper motor part. IIRC it had 4, 3/8"=20
> long by 2mm diameter magnets evenly spaced around a round piece. The=20
> magnets looked like wooden pencil leads. There could have been a dozen=
=20
> of those parts in the tiny box.

My first introduction to rare earth magnets was when I was building Soap=20
Box Derby cars.

No, I didn't hide them in the front end for extra pull out of the=20
starting ramp. ;-)

http://www.ohio.com/news/local/soap-box-derby-marks-40th-anniversary-of-fam=
ous-cheating-scandal-1.415481

We used them to hold down the hatch of the Masters cars. With a pair of=20
round rare earth magnets epoxied to both sides of the hatch up near the=20
driver's head, the hatch stayed down on the bumpiest of tracks or=20
even if we turned the car upside down, yet allowed for easy opening by=20
either the driver or the handler. The hatch is hinged right above the=20
#35 and extends back almost to the label on the side of the helmet.=20

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/photobucket-10369-13993=
45975500_zps65263f4d.jpg

Some builders used Velcro straps or metal latches that the driver had to=20
engage/disengage from inside car. The rare earth magnets did their thing=20
with no user intervention required. While accidents were rare, I'd seen=20
enough that I wanted to allow for easy opening of the hatch either from=20
the inside or the outside just in case.

On Sunday, November 8, 2015 at 6:58:59 AM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
> DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
> > Building a highly customized car was not cheap, nor were all of the
> > weekend
> > trips to other cities to race. Weekend rallies were used for 2
> > things: seat time
> > for your driver and testing of different tune-ups, weight
> > distributions, etc.
> >
>
> That caught me completely by surprise. Having never had a thing at all to
> do with Soap Box Derby, I thought the drive was really just dead weight and
> simply sat in the car. Apparently not... What kind of value is there in
> seat time for a driver?
>

For the purpose of this explanation, let's keep these 2 facts in mind:

1 - The overwhelming majority of Soap Box Derby races across the country
(and world) are held on city streets as opposed to dedicated Derby tracks.

2 - The overwhelming majority of races are held on streets where it's a
straight line from the starting ramps to the finish line.

We all know that the shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line.
However, in Derby racing, the shortest distance rarely equates to the fastest time.

Here are 2 pictures of a track we've raced at numerous times. The first
picture shows the track as viewed from between the starting ramps, the
second shows the ramps themselves, which are basically centered in the
middle of the 2 lanes. (I couldn't find a picture looking straight down
the track from behind the ramps, so just imagine that you are the guy
in the white T-shirt sitting between the ramps, about to release the
cars.)

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/Derby%20Track_zpsxsfpunyh.jpg

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/Ramps_zpsjef9otlh.jpg

If we assume that the shortest distance equates to the fastest time, then
we would assume that the drivers would simply come out the ramps and hold
a straight line down the middle of the track. (Even that takes practice, so
there's some "seat time" value right there.)

So the question is: Why are these drivers turning towards the outside of
the track and then hugging the hay bales almost all the way to the finish
line?

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/Crown_zps08jw0agn.jpg

http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/Hay%20Bales_zpshexx7zxj.jpg

The answer is "the crown". Most streets are crowned (or sometimes slanted)
so the water runs off.

Since most of the speed is gained (and lost) at the top of the hill, drivers
want to take advantage of the crown. Therefore, a good driver (and his team)
will access the amount of crown and decide how hard to turn and when to turn
out of the ramps. It's hard to tell from the close up picture of the cars, but
the driver in the foreground is angled more towards the hay bales than the
driver in the background. That is because both of these experienced drivers
know that the crown is more pronounced in the foreground lane. A sharp angle
takes advantage of a more aggressive crown, while a sharp angle can cost you
speed on a more gentle crown. After the drivers have taken advantage of
whatever crown there is, they want to hold as straight a line as possible
(in most cases) because turning/wiggling further down the track not only
slows the car down, but increases the distance the car must travel to get
to the finish line. Since races can be won or lost by the thousandth of a
second, a single wiggle by a driver can cost them a race.

A key point to mention is that since the crown, as well as many other
things, are different between the 2 lanes, one of them is going to be faster
than the other. Therefore each driver will drive both lanes during a heat.
A heat consists of 2 "lane swap" phases and the total time differential
between the phases determines the winner of the heat. That takes the lane
advantage out of the race but forces the drivers to know how to drive each
lane properly.

Ok, so far all I've talked about is the crown. Remember that these tracks
are usually city streets. So let's toss in man hole covers, cracks in the
asphalt, gaps between buildings that cause wind gusts, puddles after a
passing shower, etc. Imagine a team determining the perfect angle out the
ramps based on the crown, only to find that at the exact point you want
your driver to straighten out the car, there's manhole cover sunk an inch
below the pavement. Not only is hitting that manhole cover going to ruin the
alignment of the car, it's going to take away all of the speed gained by the
perfect use of the crown. Do we straddle the man hole cover? (Risky!) Do we
drive inside of it or outside of it? How does that decision impact what is
going on further down the tack?

I could go for hours on this, but let's just say that winning a Derby race
takes a combination of a properly set up car (weight distribution based on
slope of a given track, axle torque based on smoothness of the road surface,
etc.) and the driver's ability to drive the proper line for a specific lane.
Some say it's 20% car/80% driver. It's hard to put an exact number on it,
but I can say with 100% certainty that even a perfectly tuned car isn't going
to win too many races with a driver that wiggles and wobbles his way down the
track, hitting every bump and scrubbing speed at every opportunity.

To directly answer your question, the value of seat time is that a driver
gets to know his car and his driving habits. When we show up at an
unfamiliar track, walk it as a team and determine the best line based
all the factors mentioned above, the driver has a better chance of executing
the plan successfully.

On 11/2/2015 9:33 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 11/02/2015 9:15 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 11/2/2015 8:44 AM, dpb wrote:
>>> On 11/02/2015 8:06 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 10/31/2015 12:39 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> sounds like the quick release bar clamps and the aluminum bar clamps
>>>>> are the
>>>>> only ones worth it
>>>>
>>>> FWIW even high quality aluminum bar clamps are not very useful. They
>>>> all
>>>> bend very easily under light pressure. I have 6 and only use them as a
>>>> last resort.
>>> ...
>>>
>>> Try those from Dubuque Clamp Works...
>>>
>>> <http://www.thonline.com/news/business/article_4c1b143a-bff2-5dd4-869c-47c8a63cff52.html>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are several resellers; as the above article notes they've
>>> deliberately chosen to not go direct...
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/CDC/item/MS-ABAR.XX>
>>>
>>> I've some of unknown manufacturer that are t-bar rails like the best old
>>> cabinet clamps with a very hard/stiff Al (I presume aircraft) alloy. But
>>> afaict there's nobody currently manufacturing such any longer. These
>>> were obtained from the shop of the old codger in Lynchburg of whom I've
>>> spoken previously when he was beginning to slow down and starting to
>>> limit the size and quantity of work he was doing. They're all 48"...
>>>
>>> --
>> Those are exactly the ones I am talking about, and I paid more, ;~(,
>> that that 25+ years ago.
>>
>> If you click on the B&W inset photo and enlarge you can make out
>> Universal Clamp Company on the side of the screw end of the clamp. Those
>> are mine exactly. They are OK but have small clamping heads and the bars
>> bend easily. I have the 48 and 72 inch varieties.
>
> You must have a _much_ higher res monitor than I to be able to make
> anything whatever out of what the casting actually says... :)

27". And while not perfectly in focus, zoomed in you can see the
individual letters and the L on the end of Universal.


>
> I've not used the Dubuque's simply know they've been rated pretty highly
> and that Lee Valley says they're quite stiff and ime that's generally
> pretty reliable assessment...

They are not bad clamps for light duty work and probably better in
shorter sizes but you have to clamp them down to the work on longer
pieces so that they do not bow. This is especially true with thin panel
glue ups.

And they are certainly light weight. One thing I especially do not care
for is the ratchet end. I moves in increments of approximately 1/2 the
screw travel. I found myself having to walk from one end to the other a
time or two to get the moveable end in a location that did not reach the
limit of the screw end in either direction. If you are in a hurry to
set the clamps in a complicated glue up this is a bit nerve racking.
;~) Just food for thought. I pretty much quit them altogether when I
started collecting the K-body style clamps.


>
> I'm certain they're not as stiff as an old t-bar cabinet clamp and that
> if you're trying to squeeze the be-jxxx out of a heavy panel glue they
> can be caused to flex but I'd think them likely to be more than adequate
> for most work.
>
> Anyway, they're surely bound to be far better than the HF or local Ace
> Chinese variety or even the Jorgy's...
Probably so but you can only expect light to moderate pressure out of
them before they begin to bend.

On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 4:45:48 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
.
> > I'm thinking about some clamps pads that I have that fall off if they a=
re
> > not held on when clamping (almost the same as using scraps) vs. some cl=
amps
> > that have fitted pads semi-permanently attached. (Look Ma, no hands!)
>=20
> Double stick carpet tape.

Before we had all the nice clamp options that we enjoy now, first by necess=
ity and second by need, we used to drill tiny holes in the metal faces of o=
ur Pony clamps, bar clamps, etc, and screw pieces of white pine on them (fr=
om the back)to make softer, wider jaws. Worked like a champ, and got the a=
dditional clamping power of making a jaw as wide as you wanted. Since we us=
ed a lot of 1x2 cedar when I was framing houses (think shingle molding and =
vent trims) we simply cut off six inch pieces as needed and screwed them on=
the faces when we were doing cabinet work. They did great as they spread =
the compressed load across a surface more evenly, and even added to the uti=
lity of the clamp by its increased jaw size.

With today's plastic jaws with larger faces, I am sure double stick tape wo=
uld do the trick.

Robert

On 11/4/2015 10:09 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 08:44:56 -0600
> dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Try those from Dubuque Clamp Works...
>
> had never heard of these
> i read a review on one of their odd clamps with the novel grip mechanism
>
> the reviewer complained that the face of the clamp left a mark on his
> piece
>
> i guess he never heard of scrap
> maybe they have the guy at the store cut everything to final fit

To tell you the truth not having to use scrap anything between the wood
and the clamp surface is well worth going for Bessey Kbody or Jorgensen
Cabinet Master clamps. Especially if you are going to be using them
often or in multiples. Be wary of Jet KBody style clamps however, they
too will leave dents.

On 11/5/2015 1:22 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> On 11/5/2015 12:28 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 11/5/2015 9:20 AM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>>> On 11/5/2015 7:41 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 11/5/2015 2:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 4:45:48 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>>>> .
>>>>>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>>>> With today's plastic jaws with larger faces, I am sure double stick
>>>>> tape would do the trick.
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert
>>>>>
>>>> Maybe even a wooden pad with rare earth magnets embedded in the back
>>>> side. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll have to see of a magnet will stick to
>>>> the Jet clamp surface.
>>>
>>> If you can find some of that magnetic rubber tape or the magnetic
>>> business card stock (think refrigerator magnets, sort of)
>>>
>>> Back in the day I made up some 2" squares of ¼" ply, glued a 3/4" piece
>>> of that stock to the back and it worked fine. All you really need is
>>> "that extra hand" to hold the wood pad in place until you can tighten
>>> down the clamp. Wasn't ideal but it worked when I needed it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I wonder if that would be strong enough to go through the plastic on the
>> clamp and hold the wood pad.
>
> I seriously doubt it. Not enough drawing power. As I said it wasn't
> ideal but it worked for me. Think: just enough to hold the square of
> plywood in place while tightening the clamp. It was very easy to knock
> loose but for my purposes it was entirely adequate.
>
> If I understand where you're going with my tip, I would think that a
> rare earth magnet, properly inlet/recessed to the pad and held by a
> touch of silicone would probably do the trick, "penetrating" the plastic
> and attracting to the metal behind it.

That would be the plan.

>
> Those rare earth magnets are kinda neat. They have a helluva lot of
> pulling power for their small size. Seen some innovative gun mounts
> made of them after being coated with rubber. A couple strategically
> placed have no problem holding a 21oz to 35oz pistol horizontally or
> vertically to a metal surface.
>
My first introduction to those magnets were when I was still in the
automotive business, 20 plus years ago. I was working for an AC/Delco
wholesale distributor. There was a particular part that came in a small
box about 1.5 x1.5 x1.5 inches. You could not pick the small box up off
of the steel bin with out the box opening and coming apart. You had to
slide the box to the edge of the shelf to overcome the pull of the
magnet. The part was a small wiper motor part. IIRC it had 4, 3/8"
long by 2mm diameter magnets evenly spaced around a round piece. The
magnets looked like wooden pencil leads. There could have been a dozen
of those parts in the tiny box.

On 11/02/2015 8:06 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 10/31/2015 12:39 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>
>> sounds like the quick release bar clamps and the aluminum bar clamps
>> are the
>> only ones worth it
>
> FWIW even high quality aluminum bar clamps are not very useful. They all
> bend very easily under light pressure. I have 6 and only use them as a
> last resort.
...

Try those from Dubuque Clamp Works...

<http://www.thonline.com/news/business/article_4c1b143a-bff2-5dd4-869c-47c8a63cff52.html>

There are several resellers; as the above article notes they've
deliberately chosen to not go direct...


<https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/CDC/item/MS-ABAR.XX>

I've some of unknown manufacturer that are t-bar rails like the best old
cabinet clamps with a very hard/stiff Al (I presume aircraft) alloy.
But afaict there's nobody currently manufacturing such any longer.
These were obtained from the shop of the old codger in Lynchburg of whom
I've spoken previously when he was beginning to slow down and starting
to limit the size and quantity of work he was doing. They're all 48"...

--

On 11/02/2015 9:15 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 11/2/2015 8:44 AM, dpb wrote:
>> On 11/02/2015 8:06 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 10/31/2015 12:39 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>>>
>>>> sounds like the quick release bar clamps and the aluminum bar clamps
>>>> are the
>>>> only ones worth it
>>>
>>> FWIW even high quality aluminum bar clamps are not very useful. They all
>>> bend very easily under light pressure. I have 6 and only use them as a
>>> last resort.
>> ...
>>
>> Try those from Dubuque Clamp Works...
>>
>> <http://www.thonline.com/news/business/article_4c1b143a-bff2-5dd4-869c-47c8a63cff52.html>
>>
>>
>>
>> There are several resellers; as the above article notes they've
>> deliberately chosen to not go direct...
>>
>>
>> <https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/CDC/item/MS-ABAR.XX>
>>
>> I've some of unknown manufacturer that are t-bar rails like the best old
>> cabinet clamps with a very hard/stiff Al (I presume aircraft) alloy. But
>> afaict there's nobody currently manufacturing such any longer. These
>> were obtained from the shop of the old codger in Lynchburg of whom I've
>> spoken previously when he was beginning to slow down and starting to
>> limit the size and quantity of work he was doing. They're all 48"...
>>
>> --
> Those are exactly the ones I am talking about, and I paid more, ;~(,
> that that 25+ years ago.
>
> If you click on the B&W inset photo and enlarge you can make out
> Universal Clamp Company on the side of the screw end of the clamp. Those
> are mine exactly. They are OK but have small clamping heads and the bars
> bend easily. I have the 48 and 72 inch varieties.

You must have a _much_ higher res monitor than I to be able to make
anything whatever out of what the casting actually says... :)

I've not used the Dubuque's simply know they've been rated pretty highly
and that Lee Valley says they're quite stiff and ime that's generally
pretty reliable assessment...

I'm certain they're not as stiff as an old t-bar cabinet clamp and that
if you're trying to squeeze the be-jxxx out of a heavy panel glue they
can be caused to flex but I'd think them likely to be more than adequate
for most work.

Anyway, they're surely bound to be far better than the HF or local Ace
Chinese variety or even the Jorgy's...

--

On 10/31/2015 1:39 PM, Electric Comet wrote:

> sounds like the quick release bar clamps and the aluminum bar clamps are the
> only ones worth it

My only experience with the HF aluminum bar clamps is in the store. They
seemed very flimsy.

Greg Guarino wrote:
> On 10/31/2015 1:39 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>
>> sounds like the quick release bar clamps and the aluminum bar clamps
>> are the only ones worth it
>
> My only experience with the HF aluminum bar clamps is in the store.
> They seemed very flimsy.

I haven't bought any or even looked at any in the store in several years,
but the ones I own are as substantial as one could expect from a clamp of
this style. They have never failed me nor shown any signs of weakness or
poor design.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 11/3/2015 12:09 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Greg Guarino wrote:
>> On 10/31/2015 1:39 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>
>>> sounds like the quick release bar clamps and the aluminum bar clamps
>>> are the only ones worth it
>>
>> My only experience with the HF aluminum bar clamps is in the store.
>> They seemed very flimsy.
>
> I haven't bought any or even looked at any in the store in several years,
> but the ones I own are as substantial as one could expect from a clamp of
> this style. They have never failed me nor shown any signs of weakness or
> poor design.
>
People here say that HF's products change from time to time. I haven't
been in there often enough to know. I am however confident that what I
saw there as recently as a couple of months ago was junk. I'm not
particularly a snob about using cheap stuff that works, but these really
didn't look or feel good.

On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 10:06:13 -0500
Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote:

> My only experience with the HF aluminum bar clamps is in the store.
> They seemed very flimsy.

i really need to see them in person but maybe i will buy one and see how
it is

one concern i have is getting glue into the track
maybe i should just stick with good old bar clamps
they are hard to beat

Electric Comet wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 10:06:13 -0500
> Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> My only experience with the HF aluminum bar clamps is in the store.
>> They seemed very flimsy.
>
> i really need to see them in person but maybe i will buy one and see
> how it is
>
> one concern i have is getting glue into the track
> maybe i should just stick with good old bar clamps
> they are hard to beat

No need to worry about getting glue on your tracks.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 08:06:08 -0600
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

> FWIW even high quality aluminum bar clamps are not very useful. They
> all bend very easily under light pressure. I have 6 and only use
> them as a last resort.

i have not used any of the aluminum ones yet
now i am concerned that glue will get into the track

> You seem to have condemned Jet for using a cheaply made fastening
> part, you are not going to like HF products.

i may just stick with good old fashioned bar clamps
they are almost indesctructible and it is easy to scrape off the glue

On Mon, 02 Nov 2015 08:44:56 -0600
dpb <[email protected]> wrote:

> Try those from Dubuque Clamp Works...

had never heard of these
i read a review on one of their odd clamps with the novel grip mechanism

the reviewer complained that the face of the clamp left a mark on his
piece

i guess he never heard of scrap
maybe they have the guy at the store cut everything to final fit

On 11/05/2015 7:41 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 11/5/2015 2:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 4:45:48 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>> .
>>>> I'm thinking about some clamps pads that I have that fall off if
>>>> they are
>>>> not held on when clamping (almost the same as using scraps) vs. some
>>>> clamps
>>>> that have fitted pads semi-permanently attached. (Look Ma, no hands!)
>>>
>>> Double stick carpet tape.
>>
>> Before we had all the nice clamp options that we enjoy now, first by
>> necessity and second by need, we used to drill tiny holes in the metal
>> faces of our Pony clamps, bar clamps, etc, and screw pieces of white
>> pine on them (from the back)to make softer, wider jaws. Worked like a
>> champ, and got the additional clamping power of making a jaw as wide
>> as you wanted. Since we used a lot of 1x2 cedar when I was framing
>> houses (think shingle molding and vent trims) we simply cut off six
>> inch pieces as needed and screwed them on the faces when we were doing
>> cabinet work. They did great as they spread the compressed load across
>> a surface more evenly, and even added to the utility of the clamp by
>> its increased jaw size.
>>
>> With today's plastic jaws with larger faces, I am sure double stick
>> tape would do the trick.
>>
>> Robert
>>
> Maybe even a wooden pad with rare earth magnets embedded in the back
> side. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll have to see of a magnet will stick to the
> Jet clamp surface.

I just got accustomed to using a full-length caul resting on the clamp
bodies so never worried about the individual pads...it's still so
ingrown a practice I don't even think of pads...guess everybody grows up
different. :)

--

Leon wrote:
> On 11/5/2015 2:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 4:45:48 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>> .
>>>> I'm thinking about some clamps pads that I have that fall off if
>>>> they are not held on when clamping (almost the same as using
>>>> scraps) vs. some clamps that have fitted pads semi-permanently
>>>> attached. (Look Ma, no hands!)
>>>
>>> Double stick carpet tape.
>>
>> Before we had all the nice clamp options that we enjoy now, first by
>> necessity and second by need, we used to drill tiny holes in the
>> metal faces of our Pony clamps, bar clamps, etc, and screw pieces of
>> white pine on them (from the back)to make softer, wider jaws. Worked like
>> a champ, and got the additional clamping power of making
>> a jaw as wide as you wanted. Since we used a lot of 1x2 cedar when I
>> was framing houses (think shingle molding and vent trims) we simply
>> cut off six inch pieces as needed and screwed them on the faces when
>> we were doing cabinet work. They did great as they spread the
>> compressed load across a surface more evenly, and even added to the
>> utility of the clamp by its increased jaw size. With today's
>> plastic jaws with larger faces, I am sure double stick
>> tape would do the trick. Robert
>>
> Maybe even a wooden pad with rare earth magnets embedded in the back
> side. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll have to see of a magnet will stick to
> the Jet clamp surface.

Not a doubt in my mind this would work, but then again my simplistic mind
goes to wondering why bother going to such an extent? Culls, two sided tape
(as mentioned earlier), etc. seem to make such a much easier, and stratight
forward approach. Sometimes this groujp can go so damned far to find a
solution to a simple problem.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Thu, 05 Nov 2015 08:04:44 -0600
dpb <[email protected]> wrote:

> I just got accustomed to using a full-length caul resting on the
> clamp bodies so never worried about the individual pads...it's still
> so ingrown a practice I don't even think of pads...guess everybody
> grows up different. :)

i had never seen cauls until recently
might have been lee valley but not sure

they were not cheap but i like the idea it is clever and gives some
more versatility to the clamps i have

did you buy them or make them
what wood species are they made from
i would guess oak or ash or hard maple
maybe kiln dried too

any other tips tricks etc about them you can share would be good

On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 12:29:02 -0800 (PST)
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:

> They eventually outlawed all but the most basic modifications and
> outlawed homemade parts. It is now only the driver and the tuning of
> the car that determines the outcome. Both of those factors are huge,
> but not near as much fun as building your own axle mounts, steering
> systems, etc.

i always thought that any racing sport should have an unlimited class
competition

sailing
car racing
etc

maybe just have some very basic criteria like has to have at least 2 wheels
or must have a sail and a hull

i thought drag racing with funny cars and dragsters were unlimited but
maybe i misremember

On Fri, 6 Nov 2015 13:36:05 -0800 (PST)
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:

> In essence, the All American Soap Box Derby does have an "unlimited
> class".

interesting
maybe unlimited does not always make sense

even with the millions they spend on america's cup boats they still have
to build them with constraints

maybe where they are already spending millions in the top class an
unlimited class would make more sense

hydrofoil sailboats might be interesting to see racing

DerbyDad03 wrote:

> Building a highly customized car was not cheap, nor were all of the
> weekend
> trips to other cities to race. Weekend rallies were used for 2
> things: seat time
> for your driver and testing of different tune-ups, weight
> distributions, etc.
>

That caught me completely by surprise. Having never had a thing at all to
do with Soap Box Derby, I thought the drive was really just dead weight and
simply sat in the car. Apparently not... What kind of value is there in
seat time for a driver?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Sat, 7 Nov 2015 17:06:33 -0000 (UTC)
John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote:

> As desirable as that is, eventually you run into the twin
> problems of it being too expensive and too fast for safety
> on any available course.

you are thinking inside the box

> No, drag racing hasn't had an unlimited class since the
> 50's (or maybe early 60's). The only unlimited class I
> can think of would be LSR at Bonneville.

interesting and dangerous but not unlimited it seems but close
i would remove the human from the vehicle and make it autonomous

On Sun, 8 Nov 2015 21:11:14 -0000 (UTC)
John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote:

> Well, that would be another way to bring racing to an end.

still requires human ingenuity

you are saying it is only sport if someone can die at it

why not remove the danger element and place the control into remote
hands

> If there's no human in it, it's no longer a sporting
> competition, and spectator interest will rapidly approach
> zero.

lsr is a huge spectator sport

On Mon, 9 Nov 2015 08:24:17 -0600
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

> That has already been done, it is called a video game.

not seen a video game where the car is real
interesting idea though
it will come to be
everything is going in that direction

On Sun, 8 Nov 2015 21:11:14 -0000 (UTC)
John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote:

> Well, that would be another way to bring racing to an end.
> If there's no human in it, it's no longer a sporting
> competition, and spectator interest will rapidly approach
> zero.

the latest big craze with big money at stake is people watching other
people play video games

the people playing are playing for a lot of money and the people
watching are nothing more than spectators

i can completely see driver-less car racing in the near future
i used to spend hours racing small electric rc cars
why not do it with life-size cars

guys with lots of money would gladly part with some to race
head-to-head in a RC driver-less car

no injuries and no loss of life
i think they would have no problem at all getting spectators to
come and watch that

Electric Comet wrote:

>
> i can completely see driver-less car racing in the near future
> i used to spend hours racing small electric rc cars
> why not do it with life-size cars
>

Ummmm... because people do not really like to watch that kind of thing. How
many spectators did you ever have in your rc car races? Compare that to the
number of real spectators at a real car race. Do you really not think at
all?

> guys with lots of money would gladly part with some to race
> head-to-head in a RC driver-less car

You just keep convincing yourself of that - regardless of what the real
world shows.

>
> no injuries and no loss of life
> i think they would have no problem at all getting spectators to
> come and watch that

You just go ahead and start the series that you are so confident will
attract viewers. Let us know how that works out.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 11/5/2015 7:28 PM, krw wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Nov 2015 08:29:17 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 11/5/2015 7:41 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 11/5/2015 2:04 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, November 4, 2015 at 4:45:48 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>>>> .
>>>>>> I'm thinking about some clamps pads that I have that fall off if
>>>>>> they are
>>>>>> not held on when clamping (almost the same as using scraps) vs. some
>>>>>> clamps
>>>>>> that have fitted pads semi-permanently attached. (Look Ma, no hands!)
>>>>>
>>>>> Double stick carpet tape.
>>>>
>>>> Before we had all the nice clamp options that we enjoy now, first by
>>>> necessity and second by need, we used to drill tiny holes in the metal
>>>> faces of our Pony clamps, bar clamps, etc, and screw pieces of white
>>>> pine on them (from the back)to make softer, wider jaws. Worked like a
>>>> champ, and got the additional clamping power of making a jaw as wide
>>>> as you wanted. Since we used a lot of 1x2 cedar when I was framing
>>>> houses (think shingle molding and vent trims) we simply cut off six
>>>> inch pieces as needed and screwed them on the faces when we were doing
>>>> cabinet work. They did great as they spread the compressed load
>>>> across a surface more evenly, and even added to the utility of the
>>>> clamp by its increased jaw size.
>>>>
>>>> With today's plastic jaws with larger faces, I am sure double stick
>>>> tape would do the trick.
>>>>
>>>> Robert
>>>>
>>> Maybe even a wooden pad with rare earth magnets embedded in the back
>>> side. Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I'll have to see of a magnet will stick to
>>> the Jet clamp surface.
>>>
>>>
>> OK!
>> The rare earth magnets do stick to the faces of the Jet K-body style
>> clamps rather well. I'll put that in line to be done.
>>
>> Thanks for the suggestion Derby!
>>
>> I still think that would be a deal killer for future Jet clamps but a
>> solution for the pair that I do have.
>
> Sounds like another business for you. ;-)
>
Maybe soooo. LOL Oddly most every one that I talk to, that also have
Jets, have not noticed the problem. Then again I do test the load
ratings of my clamps.

On 11/2/2015 8:44 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 11/02/2015 8:06 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 10/31/2015 12:39 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>>
>>> sounds like the quick release bar clamps and the aluminum bar clamps
>>> are the
>>> only ones worth it
>>
>> FWIW even high quality aluminum bar clamps are not very useful. They all
>> bend very easily under light pressure. I have 6 and only use them as a
>> last resort.
> ...
>
> Try those from Dubuque Clamp Works...
>
> <http://www.thonline.com/news/business/article_4c1b143a-bff2-5dd4-869c-47c8a63cff52.html>
>
>
> There are several resellers; as the above article notes they've
> deliberately chosen to not go direct...
>
>
> <https://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/store/dept/CDC/item/MS-ABAR.XX>
>
> I've some of unknown manufacturer that are t-bar rails like the best old
> cabinet clamps with a very hard/stiff Al (I presume aircraft) alloy. But
> afaict there's nobody currently manufacturing such any longer. These
> were obtained from the shop of the old codger in Lynchburg of whom I've
> spoken previously when he was beginning to slow down and starting to
> limit the size and quantity of work he was doing. They're all 48"...
>
> --
Those are exactly the ones I am talking about, and I paid more, ;~(,
that that 25+ years ago.

If you click on the B&W inset photo and enlarge you can make out
Universal Clamp Company on the side of the screw end of the clamp.
Those are mine exactly. They are OK but have small clamping heads and
the bars bend easily. I have the 48 and 72 inch varieties.

On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 10:51:31 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tuesday, November 3, 2015 at 1:34:04 PM UTC-5, krw wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 12:09:52 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Greg Guarino wrote:
>> >> On 10/31/2015 1:39 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> sounds like the quick release bar clamps and the aluminum bar clamps
>> >>> are the only ones worth it
>> >>
>> >> My only experience with the HF aluminum bar clamps is in the store.
>> >> They seemed very flimsy.
>> >
>> >I haven't bought any or even looked at any in the store in several years,
>> >but the ones I own are as substantial as one could expect from a clamp of
>> >this style. They have never failed me nor shown any signs of weakness or
>> >poor design.
>>
>> A good number of the ones I bought about seven or eight years ago
>> broke. The ends are cast and *very* brittle. It's a PITA to have the
>> clamp break when the glue is wet (and it always is when the clamp
>> breaks).
>
>And that surprises you?

When clamps break? Yes it certainly does.
>
>Odds are that they won't break while being removed or while hanging on a hook.

It doesn't happen when dry-fitting or when you're adding clamps. It
has to be at the worst possible time.

On Sat, 31 Oct 2015 10:39:32 -0700, Electric Comet
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>sounds like the quick release bar clamps and the aluminum bar clamps are the
>only ones worth it

I have a pile of the HF aluminum bar clamps that you can have. They're
junk.

>the quick release ratcheting clamps with the pistol grip are no good and have
>no power

Agreed. Fortunately I didn't have much invested in them before I
figured it out.

>but i have a tiny set of the pistol-grip ratcheting clamps and i find uses for
>them for small stuff
>
>i was hand planing and went off the edge and caused a splinter
>the splinter did not come free so i put a dab a glue and a small clamp
>and it was just right
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On 10/31/2015 12:39 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>
> sounds like the quick release bar clamps and the aluminum bar clamps are the
> only ones worth it

FWIW even high quality aluminum bar clamps are not very useful. They
all bend very easily under light pressure. I have 6 and only use them
as a last resort.


>
> the quick release ratcheting clamps with the pistol grip are no good and have
> no power
>
> but i have a tiny set of the pistol-grip ratcheting clamps and i find uses for
> them for small stuff
>
> i was hand planing and went off the edge and caused a splinter
> the splinter did not come free so i put a dab a glue and a small clamp
> and it was just right

You seem to have condemned Jet for using a cheaply made fastening part,
you are not going to like HF products.

On 11/6/2015 10:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
Snip

>>
>>>
>>> Those rare earth magnets are kinda neat. They have a helluva lot of
>>> pulling power for their small size. Seen some innovative gun mounts
>>> made of them after being coated with rubber. A couple strategically
>>> placed have no problem holding a 21oz to 35oz pistol horizontally or
>>> vertically to a metal surface.
>>>
>> My first introduction to those magnets were when I was still in the
>> automotive business, 20 plus years ago. I was working for an AC/Delco
>> wholesale distributor. There was a particular part that came in a small
>> box about 1.5 x1.5 x1.5 inches. You could not pick the small box up off
>> of the steel bin with out the box opening and coming apart. You had to
>> slide the box to the edge of the shelf to overcome the pull of the
>> magnet. The part was a small wiper motor part. IIRC it had 4, 3/8"
>> long by 2mm diameter magnets evenly spaced around a round piece. The
>> magnets looked like wooden pencil leads. There could have been a dozen
>> of those parts in the tiny box.
>
> My first introduction to rare earth magnets was when I was building Soap
> Box Derby cars.
>
> No, I didn't hide them in the front end for extra pull out of the
> starting ramp. ;-)
>
> http://www.ohio.com/news/local/soap-box-derby-marks-40th-anniversary-of-famous-cheating-scandal-1.415481
>
> We used them to hold down the hatch of the Masters cars. With a pair of
> round rare earth magnets epoxied to both sides of the hatch up near the
> driver's head, the hatch stayed down on the bumpiest of tracks or
> even if we turned the car upside down, yet allowed for easy opening by
> either the driver or the handler. The hatch is hinged right above the
> #35 and extends back almost to the label on the side of the helmet.
>
> http://i440.photobucket.com/albums/qq121/DerbyDad03/photobucket-10369-1399345975500_zps65263f4d.jpg
>
> Some builders used Velcro straps or metal latches that the driver had to
> engage/disengage from inside car. The rare earth magnets did their thing
> with no user intervention required. While accidents were rare, I'd seen
> enough that I wanted to allow for easy opening of the hatch either from
> the inside or the outside just in case.
>
Very cool car! some how I was picturing an orange crate with wheels.
LOL Great work!


I used them on the model car display for my son many years ago.
The door on the front of the cabinet sets on the bottom ledge. Other
than that there are no hinges are latches. It is held in place by rare
earth magnets. You slide the door to one side or the other to over come
the pull of the magnets on the small screws below the surface on the
back side of the door stiles.

On 11/4/2015 9:47 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2015 10:06:13 -0500
> Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> My only experience with the HF aluminum bar clamps is in the store.
>> They seemed very flimsy.
>
> i really need to see them in person but maybe i will buy one and see how
> it is

1, One, Uno clamp????? Can you do anything with ONE clamp? LOL



>
> one concern i have is getting glue into the track
> maybe i should just stick with good old bar clamps
> they are hard to beat


There is enough slop in the fit that getting a little glue in the
indentations was never a problem for me. AND the glue can be peeled off
of aluminum pretty easily.