IV

Ivan Vegvary

29/12/2015 8:20 AM

Turning advice needed.

Making a gear shift knobs for daughter's 1948 Pontiac. Shift shafts is threaded 5/16" 24 tpi. Have tap.
Would you guys simply drill and tap the turning, or, somehow embed a 5/16"x24 nut. If embed rhen how?
Turning is glued-up light an dark wood mounted askew in the lathe to produce a small spiral. Have not glued together yet, nor have I cut the narrow 1/8" or so strip of wood.
Help! Thanks


This topic has 39 replies

nn

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

29/12/2015 11:20 PM

When I was doing a bit of teaching in our local woodturning club, "knobs" o=
f all types was one of the things I taught. I had my own method, and guys =
that learned it turned gear shift knobs, fine furniture knobs, and decorati=
ve knobs of all types.

Take your blank, orient it the way you want to get the cosmetic appearance =
right. Take the end that will be the bottom and take it to your drill pres=
s. Drill a hole deep enough to accommodate your screw inserts. For a gear=
shift, I usually used two to three nuts of the correct thread size, depend=
ing on how long the threaded section was on the shifter.

Take a hex head bolt that is the same thread size as your nuts/shifter, and=
cut it off about an 1 1/2" above the threads. Using a machine oil like 3in=
1, wipe the bolt threads down with a generous amount of oil with special at=
tention on the end of the bolt. Put the nuts on the end of the bolt. (You =
can also use a single piece of all thread connector if you can find the rig=
ht size.) Epoxy your hole, and insert the oiled bolt (oiled to prevent epox=
y adhesion) with the nuts on it into your wood block.

Allow to cure. I usually wait about 12 hours or overnight.

The next day, you now have something that looks like a popsicle.

I have a couple of these, and if you don't have a #2 Morse taper (for mid s=
ized lathes, #3 for larger) with a chuck on it to hold small stuff you need=
one.

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-2-half-inch-mt2-mini-lathe-drill-chuck-42340=
.html

Put the bolt end in the chuck, and bring your tailstock up to stead the end=
. Turn out your shape and do most of your sanding. If you will put the in=
sert slightly below the finished end to be screwed on to the shifter, you c=
an finish the profile, fine cuts and sanding and never expose the inserts.

When you are 99% through turning, turn off the lathe and back off the tails=
tock. Since you turned the knob to the insert, it is now perfectly centere=
d, perfectly concentric, and balanced. It will spin easily and true, and y=
ou can cut off the mark left by the tailstock pin. Sand and finish, and yo=
u are done.

I finish some things on the lathe using burned on finishes, and when doing =
that I finish, then spin off the completed knob while the chuck is holding =
the bolt. For larger things like gear shift knobs, I take them off the lat=
he, loosen the bolt ( make sure there is no epoxy adhesion0, then leave the=
bolt loosely in the knob. I use the bolt like a stem, and simply stick it=
z(with the knob in it) in a hole drilled in a piece of scrap so I can spra=
y finish on it.

Doing it this way means you do the entire process safely. No hand holding =
of wood, no foam or rubber gizmos, no jigs to be made, no through holes or =
any of that. The finished product looks 100% professional and after your i=
nserts are set, you can turn out a finished knob in literally minutes.

It's easy, too.

Robert

kk

krw

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

31/12/2015 9:49 AM

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:43:22 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 12/29/2015 11:20 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
>> Making a gear shift knobs for daughter's 1948 Pontiac. Shift shafts is threaded 5/16" 24 tpi. Have tap.
>> Would you guys simply drill and tap the turning, or, somehow embed a 5/16"x24 nut. If embed rhen how?
>> Turning is glued-up light an dark wood mounted askew in the lathe to produce a small spiral. Have not glued together yet, nor have I cut the narrow 1/8" or so strip of wood.
>> Help! Thanks
>
>I would simply drill and tap it. You might be surprised how well a
>simple 5/16" tapped thread works in hardwood.

Even a "fine" thread? I wouldn't think there'd be much thread to hold
in wood.
>
>Use a slightly undersized drill for the hole, do it on a test piece
>first. If you have a drill chuck for your lathe, then you can drill and
>tap it on the lathe. If you are afraid the threads won't hold (they
>will) you can put in some super glue after tapping and then re-tap the
>threads.
>
>I think this would be better than the standard threaded inserts because
>they typically are not very long and provide less support, particularly
>lateral support needed on a shift knob.
>
>Very simple to do and should work w/o much fuss.

IV

Ivan Vegvary

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

30/12/2015 2:15 PM

On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:10:26 AM UTC-8, krw wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 20:42:37 -0800 (PST), Ivan Vegvary
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >No difficulty. Just mentioning that I would rather have the 5/16" chrome lever entering a 5/16" hole in the knobs instead of the much larger hole necessary for the drilled thread insert. Simply a matter of looks.
>
> How about:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010CG2G6W?keywords=5%2F16%20stainless%20threaded%20insert&qid=1451488093&ref_=sr_1_3&s=industrial&sr=1-3

That looks like a great product. Unfortunately it only comes in 5/16"x18tpi which is a standard thread. Much less common is what I have, 5/16"x24tpi. Have tap and die, fortunately.
Thanks so much for your reply and research.

kk

krw

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

30/12/2015 10:10 AM

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 20:42:37 -0800 (PST), Ivan Vegvary
<[email protected]> wrote:

>No difficulty. Just mentioning that I would rather have the 5/16" chrome lever entering a 5/16" hole in the knobs instead of the much larger hole necessary for the drilled thread insert. Simply a matter of looks.

How about:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010CG2G6W?keywords=5%2F16%20stainless%20threaded%20insert&qid=1451488093&ref_=sr_1_3&s=industrial&sr=1-3

Pp

Puckdropper

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

30/12/2015 2:27 AM

Ivan Vegvary <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Understand threaded insert. But how do I drill axially an object that
> is kind of freeform and not perfectly cylindrical making it vise
> unfriendly. Just hold it by hand in the drill press and eyeball? Thank
> you for answering.

If you've already cut off your mounting points, you might try getting some
modeling clay and using it to hold the piece for drilling on the drill
press. It might be a good idea to cover the piece to avoid contamination.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

MM

Mike Marlow

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

04/01/2016 10:29 PM

On 1/4/2016 11:48 AM, Electric Comet wrote:

> depends
>
> how long is the threaded shaft
> what kind of wood
> does the shaft have a collar that the knob cinches to
>
> i might go all the way thru the knob and put a nut on the top
> and put a nut on the shaft and have the nut recessed into the
> knob bottom
>
> use thin nuts
>
> epoxy the nut in the knob top
>
> then i would find an old pontiac key fob and use clear epoxy to
> cover the top nut with the key fob
>
> this way you only have a 5/16 hole in the knob with recess at
> top and bottom for the nuts
>
> drilling it depends on what tools you have
>
> this is a case where drilling the hole first is best before turning
>

One has to wonder why you bother replying to, or contributing to threads
that you have absolutely no knowledge of.


--
-Mike-
[email protected]

MM

Mike Marlow

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

04/01/2016 10:29 PM

On 1/4/2016 11:48 AM, Electric Comet wrote:

> depends
>
> how long is the threaded shaft
> what kind of wood
> does the shaft have a collar that the knob cinches to
>
> i might go all the way thru the knob and put a nut on the top
> and put a nut on the shaft and have the nut recessed into the
> knob bottom
>
> use thin nuts
>
> epoxy the nut in the knob top
>
> then i would find an old pontiac key fob and use clear epoxy to
> cover the top nut with the key fob
>
> this way you only have a 5/16 hole in the knob with recess at
> top and bottom for the nuts
>
> drilling it depends on what tools you have
>
> this is a case where drilling the hole first is best before turning
>

One has to wonder why you bother replying to, or contributing to threads
that you have absolutely no knowledge of.


--
-Mike-
[email protected]

IV

Ivan Vegvary

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

30/12/2015 6:10 AM

Above 4 replies excellent choices. Thinking of either the chuck and bolt method, or, drilled insert with jam nut pre-installed on shift lever. Jam nut will be round with decorative profile made on metal lathe.
Thank you, everyone!

On

OFWW

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

29/12/2015 11:31 PM

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 20:42:37 -0800 (PST), Ivan Vegvary
<[email protected]> wrote:

>No difficulty. Just mentioning that I would rather have the 5/16" chrome lever entering a 5/16" hole in the knobs instead of the much larger hole necessary for the drilled thread insert. Simply a matter of looks.

I would recommend using a nut on the shaft to lock the shifter know
with. Get a chrome one, and a chrome flat washer to cover the gap you
speak of.

IV

Ivan Vegvary

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

29/12/2015 9:38 AM

Understand threaded insert. But how do I drill axially an object that is kind of freeform and not perfectly cylindrical making it vise unfriendly. Just hold it by hand in the drill press and eyeball?
Thank you for answering.

IV

Ivan Vegvary

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

29/12/2015 1:41 PM

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 8:41:32 AM UTC-8, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 12/29/15 10:20 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> > Making a gear shift knobs for daughter's 1948 Pontiac. Shift shafts
> > is threaded 5/16" 24 tpi. Have tap. Would you guys simply drill and
> > tap the turning, or, somehow embed a 5/16"x24 nut. If embed rhen
> > how? Turning is glued-up light an dark wood mounted askew in the
> > lathe to produce a small spiral. Have not glued together yet, nor
> > have I cut the narrow 1/8" or so strip of wood. Help! Thanks
> >
>
> Use a threaded insert. You can find them at any hardware store.
> Add epoxy if you want some assurance.
>
> http://www.grainger.com/product/E-Z-LOK-Thread-Insert-4ZB86
>
>
> --
>
> -MIKE-
>
> "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> --Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
> --
> http://mikedrums.com
> [email protected]
> ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

One problem I see with a threaded insert (after the fact) is that I will end up with a knob that has an almost 1/2" hole mounted on a 5/16" chromed shaft. Gaping hole might not look too good. Suppose I could fill it with Bondo or wood putty.
Thank you for all the replies!

ww

whit3rd

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

29/12/2015 8:45 PM

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 8:20:43 AM UTC-8, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> Making a gear shift knobs for daughter's 1948 Pontiac. Shift shafts is threaded 5/16" 24 tpi. Have tap.
> Would you guys simply drill and tap the turning, or, somehow embed a 5/16"x24 nut. If embed rhen how?

Easy, would be to get a bit of square steel rod (1/2 x 1/2), drill and thread it,
and fit that into a square mortise that you open up from a 1/2" drilled hole.
When it slides in easily, add hotmelt glue and assemble (this glue
ought to be weak enough that you could disassemble nondestructively).

Alternately, drill a hexagonal hole for the nut (drill it round, vise/chisel to make a hexagonal
mortise), or heat a hexagonal item of the right size and press the red-hot metal into the wood...

If you have a metal lathe, you can make a turned insert that has the right
clearance hole to engage an inch or so of the shaft, with a threaded end, and
knurl the whole thing. I wouldn't force-fit it, though (like many threaded
inserts), because the wood might decide to split.

I think many shift knobs are made with through holes, and the open end is capped with
a nice logo-endplug, after you get it secured.

JC

"J. Clarke"

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

30/12/2015 8:55 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:10:26 AM UTC-8, krw wrote:
> > On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 20:42:37 -0800 (PST), Ivan Vegvary
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >No difficulty. Just mentioning that I would rather have the 5/16" chrome lever entering a 5/16" hole in the knobs instead of the much larger hole necessary for the drilled thread insert. Simply a matter of looks.
> >
> > How about:
> > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010CG2G6W?keywords=5%2F16%20stainless%20threaded%20insert&qid=1451488093&ref_=sr_1_3&s=industrial&sr=1-3
>
> That looks like a great product. Unfortunately it only comes in 5/16"x18tpi which is a standard thread. Much less common is what I have, 5/16"x24tpi. Have tap and die, fortunately.
> Thanks so much for your reply and research.

That object is in the general class of "rivnuts"--tighten it the first
time and lower section collapses--it's intended to be installed in sheet
metal, not deep holes.

JC

"J. Clarke"

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

31/12/2015 12:38 PM

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> On 12/30/2015 7:55 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> > In article<[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
> >>
> >> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:10:26 AM UTC-8, krw wrote:
> >>> On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 20:42:37 -0800 (PST), Ivan Vegvary
> >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> No difficulty. Just mentioning that I would rather have the 5/16" chrome lever entering a 5/16" hole in the knobs instead of the much larger hole necessary for the drilled thread insert. Simply a matter of looks.
> >>>
> >>> How about:
> >>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010CG2G6W?keywords=5%2F16%20stainless%20threaded%20insert&qid=1451488093&ref_=sr_1_3&s=industrial&sr=1-3
> >>
> >> That looks like a great product. Unfortunately it only comes in 5/16"x18tpi which is a standard thread. Much less common is what I have, 5/16"x24tpi. Have tap and die, fortunately.
> >> Thanks so much for your reply and research.
> >
> > That object is in the general class of "rivnuts"--tighten it the first
> > time and lower section collapses--it's intended to be installed in sheet
> > metal, not deep holes.
>
> But, they will work as OP wants when there's not much tension force,
> just want to ensure the threads don't strip as are wont to do with
> (especially fine ones) in wood.
>
> Unfortunately, I couldn't find a 5/16 in UNF, either, so guess we'll not
> know.

Just another observation--this is a shift knob IIRC. Unless it's
completely symmetrical you want it threaded in a manner that lets the
alignment be adjusted--if the threads are cut in the wood then it may be
necessary to shim or trim it until it aligns just right, if it's a
threaded insert the insert can be turned a little bit as needed, if it's
a press in insert then the insert can be placed on the shifter and then
the knob pressed on.

Here's another option: <http://www.amazon.com/750-Time-Sert-Insert-Part-
05625/dp/B003S1RU6A>

If you want the full installation kit with the purpose-made drill, tap,
counterbore, etc it's a bit expensive <http://www.amazon.com/TIME-SERT-
16-Thread-Repair-0562/dp/B001JK7ZZS>

I suspect that just drilling a tight hole and using anchoring epoxy will
be sufficient with the 3/4 inch long insert though.

ME

Martin Eastburn

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

04/01/2016 9:18 PM

And to add to that sage advise, use another nut to double nut the insert
while turning. Then it won't rattle off or move while turning.
The nut can be remove on the car, but I think I would have it there as well.

Martin

On 1/4/2016 9:57 AM, Dr. Deb wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 10:20:43 AM UTC-6, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
>> Making a gear shift knobs for daughter's 1948 Pontiac. Shift shafts is threaded 5/16" 24 tpi. Have tap.
>> Would you guys simply drill and tap the turning, or, somehow embed a 5/16"x24 nut. If embed rhen how?
>> Turning is glued-up light an dark wood mounted askew in the lathe to produce a small spiral. Have not glued together yet, nor have I cut the narrow 1/8" or so strip of wood.
>> Help! Thanks
>
>
> Threaded insert is a good option. But do it the easy way, put the insert in FIRST, then chuck up a bolt or threaded rod, thread the insert and blank on and turn your gear shift knob. You KNOW the insert is both dead centered and perpendicular to the gear shift.
>
> Deb
>

Ll

Leon

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

30/12/2015 9:39 AM

On 12/29/2015 10:20 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> Making a gear shift knobs for daughter's 1948 Pontiac. Shift shafts is threaded 5/16" 24 tpi. Have tap.
> Would you guys simply drill and tap the turning, or, somehow embed a 5/16"x24 nut. If embed rhen how?
> Turning is glued-up light an dark wood mounted askew in the lathe to produce a small spiral. Have not glued together yet, nor have I cut the narrow 1/8" or so strip of wood.
> Help! Thanks
>


Something to consider. Wine bottle stoppers with turned decorative
pieces are simply screwed straight on to the threads of the metal
stopper. I would imagine that your shifter will have a considerably
larger and longer threads.

Tap scrap and see how secure it is on the shifter be fore turning.

If this is secure enough mount a blank on a 5/16" bolt with the head cut
off and mount in lathe drill chuck and turn.

KM

Kevin Miller

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

04/01/2016 1:31 PM

On 12/29/2015 07:42 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> No difficulty. Just mentioning that I would rather have the 5/16"
> chrome lever entering a 5/16" hole in the knobs instead of the much
> larger hole necessary for the drilled thread insert. Simply a matter
> of looks.
>

Is the shift lever on the floor or the tree? If the floor, you won't
see the hole as it will be on the underside.

--
Kevin Miller
Juneau, Alaska
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
"In the history of the world, no one has ever washed a rented car."
- Lawrence Summers

KM

Kevin Miller

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

04/01/2016 1:28 PM

On 12/29/2015 08:38 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> Understand threaded insert. But how do I drill axially an object that
> is kind of freeform and not perfectly cylindrical making it vise
> unfriendly. Just hold it by hand in the drill press and eyeball?
> Thank you for answering.

Drill the hole while the blank is still square/rectangular. Then mount
it so that the tailstock is centered in the hole. Turn to the desired
shape, insert the threaded insert, mount a bolt the same size as the
insert into your chuck, screw the knob onto it, and cleanup the side
that was formerly mounted in the chuck.

HTH...

...Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
Juneau, Alaska
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
"In the history of the world, no one has ever washed a rented car."
- Lawrence Summers

wn

woodchucker

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

30/12/2015 10:57 AM

On 12/29/2015 11:20 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> Making a gear shift knobs for daughter's 1948 Pontiac. Shift shafts is threaded 5/16" 24 tpi. Have tap.
> Would you guys simply drill and tap the turning, or, somehow embed a 5/16"x24 nut. If embed rhen how?
> Turning is glued-up light an dark wood mounted askew in the lathe to produce a small spiral. Have not glued together yet, nor have I cut the narrow 1/8" or so strip of wood.
> Help! Thanks
>

For a gear shift knob I would use a brass insert, and get a nice nut
brass, to lock the knob to the shifter.

--
Jeff

JM

John McCoy

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

29/12/2015 8:16 PM

Ivan Vegvary <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Understand threaded insert. But how do I drill axially an object that
> is kind of freeform and not perfectly cylindrical making it vise
> unfriendly. Just hold it by hand in the drill press and eyeball? Thank
> you for answering.

I think the technically correct answer would be to chuck
it in a 4-jaw chuck, mount a jacobs chuck in the tailstock,
and drill it that way. I say "I think" because I've never
done that, but it seems like it would work well with a
lathe if you have the chucks.

What I probably would do is try clamping it in a drill
press vise, with some sort of foam to distribute the
vise pressure.

John

sS

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal)

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

04/01/2016 2:52 PM

Ivan Vegvary <[email protected]> writes:
>Making a gear shift knobs for daughter's 1948 Pontiac. Shift shafts is threaded 5/16" 24 tpi. Have tap.
>Would you guys simply drill and tap the turning, or, somehow embed a 5/16"x24 nut. If embed rhen how?
>Turning is glued-up light an dark wood mounted askew in the lathe to produce a small spiral. Have not glued together yet, nor have I cut the narrow 1/8" or so strip of wood.
>Help! Thanks

Make sure it is comfortable in the hand during use. A pointed top should
be avoided.

IV

Ivan Vegvary

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

29/12/2015 8:42 PM

No difficulty. Just mentioning that I would rather have the 5/16" chrome lever entering a 5/16" hole in the knobs instead of the much larger hole necessary for the drilled thread insert. Simply a matter of looks.

Ll

Leon

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

05/01/2016 9:17 AM

On 1/4/2016 9:29 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> On 1/4/2016 11:48 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
>
>> depends
>>
>> how long is the threaded shaft
>> what kind of wood
>> does the shaft have a collar that the knob cinches to
>>
>> i might go all the way thru the knob and put a nut on the top
>> and put a nut on the shaft and have the nut recessed into the
>> knob bottom
>>
>> use thin nuts
>>
>> epoxy the nut in the knob top
>>
>> then i would find an old pontiac key fob and use clear epoxy to
>> cover the top nut with the key fob
>>
>> this way you only have a 5/16 hole in the knob with recess at
>> top and bottom for the nuts
>>
>> drilling it depends on what tools you have
>>
>> this is a case where drilling the hole first is best before turning
>>
>
> One has to wonder why you bother replying to, or contributing to threads
> that you have absolutely no knowledge of.
>
>

Some comments are worth repeating! ;~)

DD

"Dr. Deb"

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

04/01/2016 7:57 AM

On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 10:20:43 AM UTC-6, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> Making a gear shift knobs for daughter's 1948 Pontiac. Shift shafts is th=
readed 5/16" 24 tpi. Have tap.=20
> Would you guys simply drill and tap the turning, or, somehow embed a 5/16=
"x24 nut. If embed rhen how?
> Turning is glued-up light an dark wood mounted askew in the lathe to prod=
uce a small spiral. Have not glued together yet, nor have I cut the narrow =
1/8" or so strip of wood.
> Help! Thanks


Threaded insert is a good option. But do it the easy way, put the insert i=
n FIRST, then chuck up a bolt or threaded rod, thread the insert and blank =
on and turn your gear shift knob. You KNOW the insert is both dead centere=
d and perpendicular to the gear shift.

Deb

h

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

29/12/2015 1:31 PM

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 09:38:22 -0800 (PST), Ivan Vegvary
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Understand threaded insert.
> But how do I drill axially an object that is kind of freeform
> and not perfectly cylindrical making it vise unfriendly.
>Just hold it by hand in the drill press and eyeball?
>Thank you for answering.



http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=73477&cat=51&ap=3



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---

Ll

Leon

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

31/12/2015 9:26 AM

On 12/31/2015 8:43 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 12/29/2015 11:20 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
>> Making a gear shift knobs for daughter's 1948 Pontiac. Shift shafts is
>> threaded 5/16" 24 tpi. Have tap.
>> Would you guys simply drill and tap the turning, or, somehow embed a
>> 5/16"x24 nut. If embed rhen how?
>> Turning is glued-up light an dark wood mounted askew in the lathe to
>> produce a small spiral. Have not glued together yet, nor have I cut
>> the narrow 1/8" or so strip of wood.
>> Help! Thanks
>
> I would simply drill and tap it. You might be surprised how well a
> simple 5/16" tapped thread works in hardwood.

Exactly, the insert suggestions are cool but simply making it
complicated IMHO.





>
> Use a slightly undersized drill for the hole, do it on a test piece
> first. If you have a drill chuck for your lathe, then you can drill and
> tap it on the lathe. If you are afraid the threads won't hold (they
> will) you can put in some super glue after tapping and then re-tap the
> threads.
>
> I think this would be better than the standard threaded inserts because
> they typically are not very long and provide less support, particularly
> lateral support needed on a shift knob.
>
> Very simple to do and should work w/o much fuss.
>
>

kk

krw

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

31/12/2015 6:28 PM

On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 12:38:37 -0500, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>
>> On 12/30/2015 7:55 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> > In article<[email protected]>,
>> > [email protected] says...
>> >>
>> >> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:10:26 AM UTC-8, krw wrote:
>> >>> On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 20:42:37 -0800 (PST), Ivan Vegvary
>> >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> No difficulty. Just mentioning that I would rather have the 5/16" chrome lever entering a 5/16" hole in the knobs instead of the much larger hole necessary for the drilled thread insert. Simply a matter of looks.
>> >>>
>> >>> How about:
>> >>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010CG2G6W?keywords=5%2F16%20stainless%20threaded%20insert&qid=1451488093&ref_=sr_1_3&s=industrial&sr=1-3
>> >>
>> >> That looks like a great product. Unfortunately it only comes in 5/16"x18tpi which is a standard thread. Much less common is what I have, 5/16"x24tpi. Have tap and die, fortunately.
>> >> Thanks so much for your reply and research.
>> >
>> > That object is in the general class of "rivnuts"--tighten it the first
>> > time and lower section collapses--it's intended to be installed in sheet
>> > metal, not deep holes.
>>
>> But, they will work as OP wants when there's not much tension force,
>> just want to ensure the threads don't strip as are wont to do with
>> (especially fine ones) in wood.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I couldn't find a 5/16 in UNF, either, so guess we'll not
>> know.
>
>Just another observation--this is a shift knob IIRC. Unless it's
>completely symmetrical you want it threaded in a manner that lets the
>alignment be adjusted--if the threads are cut in the wood then it may be
>necessary to shim or trim it until it aligns just right, if it's a
>threaded insert the insert can be turned a little bit as needed, if it's
>a press in insert then the insert can be placed on the shifter and then
>the knob pressed on.

Shifter knobs generally use jam nuts to tighten and orient them.
>
>Here's another option: <http://www.amazon.com/750-Time-Sert-Insert-Part-
>05625/dp/B003S1RU6A>
>
>If you want the full installation kit with the purpose-made drill, tap,
>counterbore, etc it's a bit expensive <http://www.amazon.com/TIME-SERT-
>16-Thread-Repair-0562/dp/B001JK7ZZS>
>
>I suspect that just drilling a tight hole and using anchoring epoxy will
>be sufficient with the 3/4 inch long insert though.

Mm

-MIKE-

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

29/12/2015 10:41 AM

On 12/29/15 10:20 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> Making a gear shift knobs for daughter's 1948 Pontiac. Shift shafts
> is threaded 5/16" 24 tpi. Have tap. Would you guys simply drill and
> tap the turning, or, somehow embed a 5/16"x24 nut. If embed rhen
> how? Turning is glued-up light an dark wood mounted askew in the
> lathe to produce a small spiral. Have not glued together yet, nor
> have I cut the narrow 1/8" or so strip of wood. Help! Thanks
>

Use a threaded insert. You can find them at any hardware store.
Add epoxy if you want some assurance.

http://www.grainger.com/product/E-Z-LOK-Thread-Insert-4ZB86


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Mm

-MIKE-

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

29/12/2015 11:56 AM

On 12/29/15 11:38 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> Understand threaded insert. But how do I drill axially an object
> that is kind of freeform and not perfectly cylindrical making it
> vise unfriendly. Just hold it by hand in the drill press and eyeball?
> Thank you for answering.
>

I have done that very thing. You already have a center point marked by
the lathe, correct? You can work out some sort of clamping mechanism
using scrap blocks, foam, rubber, etc.

But honestly, if you can hold it securely in your hand, that's what I'd
do. test the technique with a scrap piece of the same type of wood.
Use a Forstner bit which is much less likely to catch or bind than a
spiral bit.

If the hole isn't perfect, don't worry about it. The epoxy will be
stronger than the threads-in-wood attachment anyway.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Mm

Meanie

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

29/12/2015 9:03 PM

On 12/29/2015 4:41 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 29, 2015 at 8:41:32 AM UTC-8, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 12/29/15 10:20 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
>>> Making a gear shift knobs for daughter's 1948 Pontiac. Shift shafts
>>> is threaded 5/16" 24 tpi. Have tap. Would you guys simply drill and
>>> tap the turning, or, somehow embed a 5/16"x24 nut. If embed rhen
>>> how? Turning is glued-up light an dark wood mounted askew in the
>>> lathe to produce a small spiral. Have not glued together yet, nor
>>> have I cut the narrow 1/8" or so strip of wood. Help! Thanks
>>>
>>
>> Use a threaded insert. You can find them at any hardware store.
>> Add epoxy if you want some assurance.
>>
>> http://www.grainger.com/product/E-Z-LOK-Thread-Insert-4ZB86
>>
>
> One problem I see with a threaded insert (after the fact) is that I will end up with a knob that has an almost 1/2" hole mounted on a 5/16" chromed shaft. Gaping hole might not look too good. Suppose I could fill it with Bondo or wood putty.
> Thank you for all the replies!
>

I'm not following the level of difficulty you appear to be having. If
you're turning the piece, you already have a center hole at each end.
Before you do the final cutoff, drill the end, which will be mounted on
the stick, with the appropriate size bit using a Jacobs chuck as
suggested. Thus, no worries about crooked drilling. Then insert the
threaded insert with glue, let dry then finish. Once it's finished,
you're ready to simply screw it on.

Mm

Meanie

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

30/12/2015 6:36 AM

On 12/29/2015 11:42 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> No difficulty. Just mentioning that I would rather have the 5/16" chrome lever entering a 5/16" hole in the knobs instead of the much larger hole necessary for the drilled thread insert. Simply a matter of looks.
>

But you won't see it or am I missing something?

dd

"dadiOH"

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

30/12/2015 8:00 AM

Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> Making a gear shift knobs for daughter's 1948 Pontiac. Shift shafts
> is threaded 5/16" 24 tpi. Have tap.
> Would you guys simply drill and tap the turning, or, somehow embed a
> 5/16"x24 nut. If embed rhen how?
> Turning is glued-up light an dark wood mounted askew in the lathe to
> produce a small spiral. Have not glued together yet, nor have I cut
> the narrow 1/8" or so strip of wood. Help! Thanks

If the hole will be cross grain, drill and tap will work; if with the grain,
you'll need a threaded insert.

dd

"dadiOH"

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

30/12/2015 8:04 AM

Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> No difficulty. Just mentioning that I would rather have the 5/16"
> chrome lever entering a 5/16" hole in the knobs instead of the much
> larger hole necessary for the drilled thread insert. Simply a matter
> of looks.

Set the insert flush with the entry surface. No gaping hole visible.
Especially if you leave it slightly proud and grind off the excess.

dn

dpb

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

30/12/2015 4:49 PM

On 12/30/2015 4:15 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
...

> That looks like a great product. Unfortunately it only comes in
> 5/16"x18tpi which is a standard thread. Much less common is what I
> have,5/16"x24tpi. Have tap and die, fortunately.

Hmmm....indeed, I had trouble finding them in 5/16 UNF, too.

I think 5/16" is probably too large for the knife/edge threaded inserts,
though.

What are you using for the wood? (IOW, I'm asking how hard it is and how
well it'll tap and hold).

What I'd probably do is to bore the hole slightly under-size for nominal
soft steel dimensions for threading, then use some epoxy when applying
the knob to the shifter.

My experience with similar made repairs for a couple old trucks is that
they get sufficient use that they will, eventually, loosen if it's an
"every day driver". But, if it's basically a show vehicle, it'll
probably last as long as needed...

--

Jj

Jack

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

31/12/2015 9:43 AM

On 12/29/2015 11:20 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
> Making a gear shift knobs for daughter's 1948 Pontiac. Shift shafts is threaded 5/16" 24 tpi. Have tap.
> Would you guys simply drill and tap the turning, or, somehow embed a 5/16"x24 nut. If embed rhen how?
> Turning is glued-up light an dark wood mounted askew in the lathe to produce a small spiral. Have not glued together yet, nor have I cut the narrow 1/8" or so strip of wood.
> Help! Thanks

I would simply drill and tap it. You might be surprised how well a
simple 5/16" tapped thread works in hardwood.

Use a slightly undersized drill for the hole, do it on a test piece
first. If you have a drill chuck for your lathe, then you can drill and
tap it on the lathe. If you are afraid the threads won't hold (they
will) you can put in some super glue after tapping and then re-tap the
threads.

I think this would be better than the standard threaded inserts because
they typically are not very long and provide less support, particularly
lateral support needed on a shift knob.

Very simple to do and should work w/o much fuss.


--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

dn

dpb

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

31/12/2015 8:47 AM

On 12/30/2015 7:55 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article<[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 30, 2015 at 7:10:26 AM UTC-8, krw wrote:
>>> On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 20:42:37 -0800 (PST), Ivan Vegvary
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> No difficulty. Just mentioning that I would rather have the 5/16" chrome lever entering a 5/16" hole in the knobs instead of the much larger hole necessary for the drilled thread insert. Simply a matter of looks.
>>>
>>> How about:
>>> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010CG2G6W?keywords=5%2F16%20stainless%20threaded%20insert&qid=1451488093&ref_=sr_1_3&s=industrial&sr=1-3
>>
>> That looks like a great product. Unfortunately it only comes in 5/16"x18tpi which is a standard thread. Much less common is what I have, 5/16"x24tpi. Have tap and die, fortunately.
>> Thanks so much for your reply and research.
>
> That object is in the general class of "rivnuts"--tighten it the first
> time and lower section collapses--it's intended to be installed in sheet
> metal, not deep holes.

But, they will work as OP wants when there's not much tension force,
just want to ensure the threads don't strip as are wont to do with
(especially fine ones) in wood.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find a 5/16 in UNF, either, so guess we'll not
know.

--

dd

"dadiOH"

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

31/12/2015 1:19 PM

krw wrote:
> On Thu, 31 Dec 2015 09:43:22 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 12/29/2015 11:20 AM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
>>> Making a gear shift knobs for daughter's 1948 Pontiac. Shift shafts
>>> is threaded 5/16" 24 tpi. Have tap.
>>> Would you guys simply drill and tap the turning, or, somehow embed
>>> a 5/16"x24 nut. If embed rhen how?
>>> Turning is glued-up light an dark wood mounted askew in the lathe
>>> to produce a small spiral. Have not glued together yet, nor have I
>>> cut the narrow 1/8" or so strip of wood. Help! Thanks
>>
>> I would simply drill and tap it. You might be surprised how well a
>> simple 5/16" tapped thread works in hardwood.
>
> Even a "fine" thread? I wouldn't think there'd be much thread to hold
> in wood.

It would be fine as long as the threaded hole is perpendicular to the grain.

If parallel to the grain the tap will shear/break off much of the threads as
it cuts. That is true even with larger NC threads. There are various ways
to fix that but the easiest thing is to drill a larger than needed hole,
fill it with thickened epoxy or JB Weld or similar, let it set then drill
and tap the epoxy.

EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

04/01/2016 8:48 AM

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 08:20:36 -0800 (PST)
Ivan Vegvary <[email protected]> wrote:

> Making a gear shift knobs for daughter's 1948 Pontiac. Shift shafts
> is threaded 5/16" 24 tpi. Have tap. Would you guys simply drill and
> tap the turning, or, somehow embed a 5/16"x24 nut. If embed rhen how?
> Turning is glued-up light an dark wood mounted askew in the lathe to
> produce a small spiral. Have not glued together yet, nor have I cut
> the narrow 1/8" or so strip of wood. Help! Thanks

depends

how long is the threaded shaft
what kind of wood
does the shaft have a collar that the knob cinches to

i might go all the way thru the knob and put a nut on the top
and put a nut on the shaft and have the nut recessed into the
knob bottom

use thin nuts

epoxy the nut in the knob top

then i would find an old pontiac key fob and use clear epoxy to
cover the top nut with the key fob

this way you only have a 5/16 hole in the knob with recess at
top and bottom for the nuts

drilling it depends on what tools you have

this is a case where drilling the hole first is best before turning










EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Ivan Vegvary on 29/12/2015 8:20 AM

04/01/2016 9:47 AM

On Tue, 29 Dec 2015 08:20:36 -0800 (PST)
Ivan Vegvary <[email protected]> wrote:

> Making a gear shift knobs for daughter's 1948 Pontiac. Shift shafts

what happened to the first one you made

or did you never make it

a year ago you asked the same

which model pontiac is it anyway
















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