On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 15:10:36 -0500, "Justin Time" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I asked about Rikon since I have $300 worth of gift cards for Woodcraft and
>a Rikon mini lathe cost $399. Comparing it to the other three floor models
>yesterday (Two Jets and a Delta), it was cheaper, but had the same HP. The
>one Jet VS and the Delta were variable speed. The other Jet mini and the
>Rikon were not. The Rikon length was longer than the two Jets but an inch
>shorther than the Delta.
>
>I may take the plunge since the overall cost for me is $100.
>
>Thanks for the input.
>
I have the Rikon (but not the latest iteration). I think it was a good
purchase. I haven't compared it to the Jet and others.
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 08:16:43 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>The Tormek sharpener gets me.
>Too messy. Too slow. Too complicated.
>
>I have very successful reshaepening and like you the results are not the
>same as what the factory delivered but I can't tell any difference. ;~)
I'm guessing it would be fine for getting that great edge on knives or
similar tools. That's one area I like my cutting tool to be razor
sharp, especially so when I'm entertaining. It's then that I like the
knife to be so sharp you only need to wave it at your prime rib and
the entire roast falls over perfectly sliced.
Seeing Robert's comments on not needing a specifically shaped edge for
turning tools, it looks like all you need is most any sharp edge as
long as you hold it at the correct angle.
On 2/5/2012 6:25 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/5/2012 4:54 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 2/5/12 4:45 PM, Justin Time wrote:
>>> Yes, I did neglect the turning tools cost, but upon the advice given,
>>> I'll
>>> start with the HF tools or the Amazon as you listed.
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>>
>>
>> Any HSS tools will work great until you start to notice the difference
>> in better steel.
>> But, you may want to go ahead and spend the rest of the $300 Leon
>> suggested on sharpening tools. Sharpening tools are multi-taskers so you
>> will use them on more than just turning tools, even if you decide you
>> don't like turning. And if you end up loving turning and upgrade to
>> higher quality turning tools, you'll already have the sharpening tools.
>>
>>
>
> I have several 15~20 turning tools and I hate sharpening. I am really
> seeing a lot of a new brand that never needs to be sharpened. They have
> replaceable carbide teeth tips and some have 4 new cutting edges. IIRC
> about $15 for replacement cutters. IIRC Craig of Kreg tools has
> introduced this line. Only need about $500 total for all the basic styles.
>
> http://www.easywoodtools.com/
I have the Easywood Mini finisher - it's the only tool I use anymore for
pen turning. Works great!
Matt
On 2/6/2012 5:13 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/5/2012 10:18 PM, Matt wrote:
>> On 2/5/2012 6:25 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 2/5/2012 4:54 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 2/5/12 4:45 PM, Justin Time wrote:
>>>>> Yes, I did neglect the turning tools cost, but upon the advice given,
>>>>> I'll
>>>>> start with the HF tools or the Amazon as you listed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any HSS tools will work great until you start to notice the difference
>>>> in better steel.
>>>> But, you may want to go ahead and spend the rest of the $300 Leon
>>>> suggested on sharpening tools. Sharpening tools are multi-taskers so
>>>> you
>>>> will use them on more than just turning tools, even if you decide you
>>>> don't like turning. And if you end up loving turning and upgrade to
>>>> higher quality turning tools, you'll already have the sharpening tools.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have several 15~20 turning tools and I hate sharpening. I am really
>>> seeing a lot of a new brand that never needs to be sharpened. They have
>>> replaceable carbide teeth tips and some have 4 new cutting edges. IIRC
>>> about $15 for replacement cutters. IIRC Craig of Kreg tools has
>>> introduced this line. Only need about $500 total for all the basic
>>> styles.
>>>
>>> http://www.easywoodtools.com/
>>
>> I have the Easywood Mini finisher - it's the only tool I use anymore for
>> pen turning. Works great!
>>
>> Matt
>
> Great, I have heard nothing but good comments about the tools. Do they
> work well on the more exotic materials like the plastics, coffee beans,
> money blanks, etc?
I much prefer it for the plastics and acrylics, even the Tru Stone
blanks - cuts like the proverbial hot knife thru butter. As with all
such blanks, you can still get chips now and then, just watch closely as
you get down to the final shape. I've been known to put any tool aside
and switch to 150 grit sandpaper if I have any doubts about it at that
point, and I've been told I have a very soft touch with lathe tools.
The only time I switch back to a regular chisel is when doing tenons on
those pen styles that require them. Be aware that it can be a very
aggressive tool, so "tread lightly" when first using it until you get a
good feel for it.
Here's a link to my Etsy shop; all of the pens shown were turned using
the Easywood mini finisher (including the few wood ones).
http://www.etsy.com/shop/emcefyrs
Matt
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in news:b54eb95f-
[email protected]:
*snip*
>
> BTW, he never sharpens his tools. He reprofiles to the shape he
> wants, then uses a strop and green diamond compound to re-hone the
> edges.
>
> Oddly... he can't sharpen a pocket knife...
>
> Robert
That seems to work rather well. I've got the leather wheel and green
compound for the Work Sharp, and after using a chisel give it a touch on
the wheel before putting it away.
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 12:36:56 -0700, Ray <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 10:56:32 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>wrote:
>
>>On 2/7/2012 8:56 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> On 2/5/2012 7:31 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>> Ummm you will need turning tools, about $300 worth for starters.
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed, he needs turning tools, but there's no reason they have to be
>>>>> *that* expensive.
>>>>>
>>>> Well, probably not but if he gets into it the good tools work better
>>>> and he will probably want at least a few better tools.
>>>> Especially if he wants a better chuck, calipers...
>>>>
>>> Of course the good tools work better -- but he shouldn't spend a fortune on the first lathe or the first
>>> set of tools, when he doesn't even know yet if he's going to enjoy it. I think his best bet is to look for a
>>> decent used machine on Craigslist. If he doesn't like turning, he can re-sell it on CL and get most, if
>>> not all, of his money back.
>>
>>Correct and I did say to buy an inexpensive one in an earlier post to
>>determine if he is going to pursue this further. But if he gets into
>>this $300 is not going to look like a fortune in tools. Not saying that
>>$50 would not get him going on a set with several tools. But an
>>adjustable chuck is a nice thing to have and is going to put a sizable
>>dent in $300 quickly and sharpening is going to figure in there somewhere.
>>
>>I am more warning about the slippery slope.
>
>I have been doing lathe work for about a year. My total expense has
>been:
>
>HF 12" Lathe 160
>HF beefier HSS tool set 50
>HF slow speed wet grinder 50
>PSI chuck with jumbo jaws less than 100
>
>I have done some spindle turning but mostly segmented bowls. I am
>running out of space to put them and people to give them to. I think
>I do OK work with minimal expense. When I show a bowl no one admires
>the tools I made it with. I am satisfied with my tools. I am a
>sawdust maker rather than a tool collector and don't feel like I am
>sliding down the slippery slope. I won the bowl contest at the local
>Woodcraft store. You can buy the HF set for much less than a few
>tools others recommend.
>
>Some of my work is at
>
>http://ray80538.home.comcast.net/~ray80538/SegmentedBowl/segbowl.html
I love the bowl lamps, Ray. Booful!
--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin
On Feb 7, 8:16 am, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> I have very successful reshaepening and like you the results are not the
> same as what the factory delivered but I can't tell any difference. ;~)
>
> It probably takes me 15 minutes to simply get the sharpener ready to go
> and the tool correctly inserted in the correct adapter. And then it is
> another adapter for a different tool. And then clean up is a bit time
> consuming and water is everywhere.
Seriously Leon I think too much is made of sharpening. Like one of
our hugely talented demonstrators (Allen Batty? ) told us, I want to
turn, not sharpen. All of the demo guys have made note of the mirror
edges some of the guys put on their tools, the perfect grinds, etc.,
but none of them do it themselves.
On my bowl gouges I like a medium fingernail grind. I can do that all
day long with my favorite 3/8 gouge. Need a bit of help on my 1/2"
gouge, and when I get the gouge completely out of whack I use a jig to
get it back up to snuff.
After having my sharpening revelation, I was quicker and more
confident at the grinder. One of the guys I was teaching at the
turning club open house told me " wow, the left side looks great, but
the right side looks lopsided...". I keenly observed "ever use the
right side of the gouge when turning a bowl?"
I don't have the patience to spend more time sharpening than turning.
And when I was so worried about my edges, I spend waaay too much time
fussing over the perfect edge, only to hit a hidden knot, a small
rock, a nail, and even one time a bullet! Found wood can be tough on
tools. Plus, I like a fresh edge. So I turn for a few minutes until
I know it isn't cutting well, then walk over to the grinder and
freshen up the edge. Back at the lathe in about three minutes.
And as noted here in another post, you will adjust to the sweet
cutting spot on the tool while you are turning, right? So if it isn't
a perfect XX degree grind, you adjust the tool angle and off you go.
So much of turning is feel, I look at sharpening angles, profiles, as
something to try. Using cheap tools to test the grinds, I have ground
profiles on them I hated, then simply ground them off and gone to what
I like. But I never experimented on my expensive stuff.
As I tell the guys... "feel The Force"...
I have seen your work, Leon. Anyone with your kind of talent, skill
and dexterity can sharpen easily with just a little practice.
As far as handles go, I have bought too much stuff from these guys:
http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com
Just go to the search box and type in "tool handles" and you will get
25 pages of handles, bits, accessories, etc.
I am off the slope now, but must stay when I was on it, I loved
turning more than anything I had done with wood since I learned to
build simple cabinets back in the 70s. Way to much fun for me.
Robert
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 15:10:36 -0500, "Justin Time" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I asked about Rikon since I have $300 worth of gift cards for Woodcraft and
>a Rikon mini lathe cost $399. Comparing it to the other three floor models
>yesterday (Two Jets and a Delta), it was cheaper, but had the same HP. The
>one Jet VS and the Delta were variable speed. The other Jet mini and the
>Rikon were not. The Rikon length was longer than the two Jets but an inch
>shorther than the Delta.
Going for the variable speed model? Should be -well- worth the extra
$30. http://tinyurl.com/6thm8bf
>I may take the plunge since the overall cost for me is $100.
What turning tools do you have now? It appears that none comes with
the lathe. HF used to have a halfway decent $10 set but it's $60 now.
$30 in the Amazone: http://tinyurl.com/6vel9ed Start with those,
figure out which you want/need to spend some real money on, and
upgrade only those gouges.
--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin
On Tue, 7 Feb 2012 14:47:02 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Feb 7, 8:16 am, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> I have very successful reshaepening and like you the results are not the
>> same as what the factory delivered but I can't tell any difference. ;~)
>>
>> It probably takes me 15 minutes to simply get the sharpener ready to go
>> and the tool correctly inserted in the correct adapter. And then it is
>> another adapter for a different tool. And then clean up is a bit time
>> consuming and water is everywhere.
Diamond paddles are your friend for quick touchups, as are strops.
Diamonds take off metal every time and strops hone up the edge.
>Seriously Leon I think too much is made of sharpening. Like one of
>our hugely talented demonstrators (Allen Batty? ) told us, I want to
>turn, not sharpen. All of the demo guys have made note of the mirror
>edges some of the guys put on their tools, the perfect grinds, etc.,
>but none of them do it themselves.
Absolutely. _Hand_ carving wood takes Scary(tm) sharpness.
Lathe work is a whole helluva lot more forgiving...on most woods.
--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin
On 2/6/2012 9:19 PM, CW wrote:
>
>
> "Leon" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> On 2/5/2012 9:17 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 19:25:08 -0600, Leon wrote:
>>
>>> I have several 15~20 turning tools and I hate sharpening. I am really
>>> seeing a lot of a new brand that never needs to be sharpened. They have
>>> replaceable carbide teeth tips and some have 4 new cutting edges. IIRC
>>> about $15 for replacement cutters. IIRC Craig of Kreg tools has
>>> introduced this line. Only need about $500 total for all the basic
>>> styles.
>>>
>>> http://www.easywoodtools.com/
>>
>> Here's another source - somewhat lower prices:
>>
>> http://www.woodchuck-tools.com/Tools.htm
>>
>
> Their replacement carbide tips certainly are a lot less expensive, looks
> to be 1/2.
> ===============================================================
> Take an insert and go down to an industrial supply that serves machines
> shops. Have them match it up. Much cheaper.
Any major name suppliers come to mind?
On 2/6/2012 9:11 PM, CW wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>> http://www.easywoodtools.com/
>>
>> I have the Easywood Mini finisher - it's the only tool I use anymore for
>> pen turning. Works great!
>>
>> Matt
>
> Great, I have heard nothing but good comments about the tools. Do they
> work well on the more exotic materials like the plastics, coffee beans,
> money blanks, etc?
> ===================================================================
> They will work well anyplace any other scraper would work.
I was concerned about the more brittle nature of carbide when turning
stone or metal.
On 2/6/2012 9:21 AM, Matt wrote:
>>
>> Great, I have heard nothing but good comments about the tools. Do they
>> work well on the more exotic materials like the plastics, coffee beans,
>> money blanks, etc?
>
> I much prefer it for the plastics and acrylics, even the Tru Stone
> blanks - cuts like the proverbial hot knife thru butter. As with all
> such blanks, you can still get chips now and then, just watch closely as
> you get down to the final shape. I've been known to put any tool aside
> and switch to 150 grit sandpaper if I have any doubts about it at that
> point, and I've been told I have a very soft touch with lathe tools. The
> only time I switch back to a regular chisel is when doing tenons on
> those pen styles that require them. Be aware that it can be a very
> aggressive tool, so "tread lightly" when first using it until you get a
> good feel for it.
>
> Here's a link to my Etsy shop; all of the pens shown were turned using
> the Easywood mini finisher (including the few wood ones).
>
> http://www.etsy.com/shop/emcefyrs
>
> Matt
>
Thank YOU I had left out the tru stone blanks but meant to ask so
thanks for covering that. ;~)
On 2/6/2012 11:31 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:17:16 -0600, Leon wrote:
>
>> On 2/5/2012 9:17 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>
>>> Here's another source - somewhat lower prices:
>>>
>>> http://www.woodchuck-tools.com/Tools.htm
>>>
>>>
>> Their replacement carbide tips certainly are a lot less expensive, looks
>> to be 1/2.
>
> I bought the rougher (unhandled) a couple of years ago along with extra
> tips. I've been happy with it. The guy who makes them (IIRC, he's a
> retired machinist) says he's sold them all over the world. If you have
> any questions give him a call - he's a friendly cuss.
>
> I like the looks of his new combo tool - I may have to save up for it.
>
So Larry how long comparatively do the carbide tips last would you say?
On 2/6/2012 11:33 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:05:03 -0600, Leon wrote:
>
>> Well, probably not but if he gets into it the good tools work better and
>> he will probably want at least a few better tools. Especially if he
>> wants a better chuck, calipers...
>
> Don't discourage the poor guy, Leon. We all know the tool companies
> should give away free lathes :-).
>
Not trying to discourage him, just prepare him. The Lathe is only the
first installment to turning. :~)
On 2/4/2012 10:21 PM, Justin Time wrote:
> I'm considering dipping into the lathe adventure and want to purchase a mini
> lathe. What features are necessary and what other specs should I be looking
> for? How good is Rikon products? Any name brand to stay away from? Any other
> info also appreciated.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
I would suggest as inexpensive as you can find and learn. Then upgrade
and make a more educated choice.
On 2/6/2012 9:42 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Feb 5, 7:25 pm, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> I have several 15~20 turning tools and I hate sharpening. I am really
>> seeing a lot of a new brand that never needs to be sharpened. They have
>> replaceable carbide teeth tips and some have 4 new cutting edges. IIRC
>> about $15 for replacement cutters.
>
> Leon - what is it that gets you on sharpening? Spindle gouges,
> roughing gouges, bowl gouges.... skews?
>
> When I the turning bug really bad, I turned a few hours a week for
> several years. No piece of wood was safe, especially interesting FOG
> wood. (Found On Ground. ;^) )
>
> I taught beginning and intermediate turning, and (of course)
> finishing. Part of my class was sharpening, and I taught how to use
> the Wolverine jig as well as homemade versions of the same for various
> gouges. I have turned enough personally that I sharpen freehand.
>
> At the time our club was very active and we were able to afford some
> internationally known, excellent turners to come demonstrate for our
> club. Most were **great** guys, and even though they were masters of
> their craft, completely without pretense. Ask 'em anything, and they
> would tell you. Sharpening was always a hot topic, and they helped me
> get over any qualms about grinding my tools. I studied their tool
> edges carefully; never saw a perfect grind in my ten years at the
> club. Never. Not once, ever, did I see any gouge or chisel ground to
> look like those beautiful grinds from the factory.
>
> Most were faceted, some kind of lopsided, and depending on the tool,
> just awful. Nonetheless, their work was superb. Collectively, their
> idea was that they sharpened to get the edge they wanted, and when
> that was gone, it was right back to the grinder for a touch up. They
> never fussed over an edge until they were at the finishing stage of
> things, and even then stressed a light touch over a supersharp tool.
> And being freehand sharpeners, they sharpened some wild profiles on
> their tools, and encouraged all of us to do the same.
>
> I set aside my Sorby and other expensive tools, and found these tools
>
> http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCAN6M.html
>
> that are an excellent value for midi users. (On sale I see, too!)
>
> For a bigger lathe, I would tell the guys to get certain (or sets if
> on sale) from this selection:
>
> http://www.pennstateind.com/store/woodturning-tools.html
>
> Their tools are M2 high speed steel, and they hold their edges well
> and are easy to sharpen. That gave me the space to grind away on
> tools without thinking that every missed grind cost me $5 worth of
> steel. And I like their profiles so much (the gullets aren't so damn
> closed on their bowl gouges) I have happily bought many of their tools
> as preferred users.
>
> In a rare stroke of inspiration, I had my students practice on
> something even cheaper. I had them get 1/4". 3/8" and 1/2" low carb
> steel rod from our local
> supplier, cut it into 10" lengths, and mount their "blanks" into a
> handle they turned. Then they could practice their sharpening on a
> piece of very inexpensive steel rod, not on a tool. This turned out
> to be very successful for some of them, and they learned spindle
> turning (handle), making their own tools, and sharpening in one
> project.
>
> My only bugaboo is the skew. I can sharpen all of mine until you can
> literally shave hair. They are as sharp as my pocket knives. But
> unless it is a planing cut, I can't get it. When we had "open house"
> which was a chance for all of us to bring the tool(s) we couldn't use
> to get help from other turners, it was always the skew. I don't know
> what it is I can't see when using it, and it is really, really
> frustrating. I can use the tool when my skew buddy was standing there
> telling me to raise or lower my elbow, change my approach angle, or to
> angle the blade a certain way. By the time I got home, it was all
> lost. After hours and hours of failed attempts, I have given up. My
> skew is now used to open paint cans, scrape paint, knock the mud off
> my boots, weed the yard, etc.
>
> Just kidding.
>
> I now use what is known as the 180 grit skew in the form of sanding
> tape.
>
> The tools you are looking at are machinist tools, and you can find
> many of the "bits" in a machinist's catalog. They are plentiful and
> cheap. They can be resharpened with diamond files like these
>
> http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2063622/24691/DMT-25-DiaSharp-Diamond-MiniHone-Sharpening-Stone-Fine.aspx
>
> and their brothers. The only thing I don't like about those is the
> fact that they are still scrapers, not cutters. I have seen some
> lovely work in the right hands when using those tools, but never
> finish grade work. They do make excellent shape roughing tools, as
> well as the opposite end, detailing like rings, beads, etc, if you
> have enough room to get the holder in place.
>
> Robert
Well thanks for the detailed review Robert! ;~)
Now to answer your question, what gets me on sharpening.
The Tormek sharpener gets me.
Too messy. Too slow. Too complicated.
I have very successful reshaepening and like you the results are not the
same as what the factory delivered but I can't tell any difference. ;~)
It probably takes me 15 minutes to simply get the sharpener ready to go
and the tool correctly inserted in the correct adapter. And then it is
another adapter for a different tool. And then clean up is a bit time
consuming and water is everywhere.
"Leon" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On 2/5/2012 10:18 PM, Matt wrote:
> On 2/5/2012 6:25 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/5/2012 4:54 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 2/5/12 4:45 PM, Justin Time wrote:
>>>> Yes, I did neglect the turning tools cost, but upon the advice given,
>>>> I'll
>>>> start with the HF tools or the Amazon as you listed.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you
>>>>
>>>
>>> Any HSS tools will work great until you start to notice the difference
>>> in better steel.
>>> But, you may want to go ahead and spend the rest of the $300 Leon
>>> suggested on sharpening tools. Sharpening tools are multi-taskers so you
>>> will use them on more than just turning tools, even if you decide you
>>> don't like turning. And if you end up loving turning and upgrade to
>>> higher quality turning tools, you'll already have the sharpening tools.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I have several 15~20 turning tools and I hate sharpening. I am really
>> seeing a lot of a new brand that never needs to be sharpened. They have
>> replaceable carbide teeth tips and some have 4 new cutting edges. IIRC
>> about $15 for replacement cutters. IIRC Craig of Kreg tools has
>> introduced this line. Only need about $500 total for all the basic
>> styles.
>>
>> http://www.easywoodtools.com/
>
> I have the Easywood Mini finisher - it's the only tool I use anymore for
> pen turning. Works great!
>
> Matt
Great, I have heard nothing but good comments about the tools. Do they
work well on the more exotic materials like the plastics, coffee beans,
money blanks, etc?
===================================================================
They will work well anyplace any other scraper would work.
On 2/6/2012 8:40 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 14:34:43 -0600, Leon wrote:
>
>> On 2/6/2012 11:31 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>>> On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:17:16 -0600, Leon wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/5/2012 9:17 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Here's another source - somewhat lower prices:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.woodchuck-tools.com/Tools.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Their replacement carbide tips certainly are a lot less expensive,
>>>> looks to be 1/2.
>>>
>>> I bought the rougher (unhandled) a couple of years ago along with extra
>>> tips. I've been happy with it. The guy who makes them (IIRC, he's a
>>> retired machinist) says he's sold them all over the world. If you have
>>> any questions give him a call - he's a friendly cuss.
>>>
>>> I like the looks of his new combo tool - I may have to save up for it.
>>>
>>>
>> So Larry how long comparatively do the carbide tips last would you say?
>
> I'm probably not the person to ask. I was only turning about 4-8 hours a
> week and then I got sidetracked into building a dulcimer. I haven't
> turned anything but a handle for a veneer hammer in months.
I rarely turn and and in my hey day a few years ago it was mostly pens.
I turn if a project requires it but seldom for the sake of turning
because of the trouble of sharpening. That could change. ;~)
>
> But based on my limited experience, I'd say about 8 hours of actual use
> per side, or 32 for an entire tip. Of course that depends a lot on the
> wood. I was turning mostly domestic hardwoods - something like jatoba or
> lignum vitae would be a lot harder on tip life.
I have to wonder how often you would resharpen a standard tool with 32
hours of turning, or 8 for that matter.
>
> (interesting - the Pan spell checker flagged jatoba but not lignum vitae)
>
> I've heard comments that you can't sharpen the tips. I see no reason why
> use of a diamond hone wouldn't extend tip life. When I run out of sharp
> tips I plan on trying it. If I was smart, I'd touch up the tip after
> each use the way I do with router bits, but I never seem to think of it
> at the time.
>
Concerning the sharpening of the tips issue, it is probably an
associated reference to sharpening the typical carbide saw blade.
Carbide would be much harder to reshape compared to the typical turning
tool. I certainly would try the diamond hone.
On 2/5/2012 4:54 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/5/12 4:45 PM, Justin Time wrote:
>> Yes, I did neglect the turning tools cost, but upon the advice given,
>> I'll
>> start with the HF tools or the Amazon as you listed.
>>
>> Thank you
>>
>
> Any HSS tools will work great until you start to notice the difference
> in better steel.
> But, you may want to go ahead and spend the rest of the $300 Leon
> suggested on sharpening tools. Sharpening tools are multi-taskers so you
> will use them on more than just turning tools, even if you decide you
> don't like turning. And if you end up loving turning and upgrade to
> higher quality turning tools, you'll already have the sharpening tools.
>
>
I have several 15~20 turning tools and I hate sharpening. I am really
seeing a lot of a new brand that never needs to be sharpened. They have
replaceable carbide teeth tips and some have 4 new cutting edges. IIRC
about $15 for replacement cutters. IIRC Craig of Kreg tools has
introduced this line. Only need about $500 total for all the basic styles.
http://www.easywoodtools.com/
On 2/8/2012 1:36 PM, Ray wrote:
>
> I have been doing lathe work for about a year. My total expense has
> been:
>
> HF 12" Lathe 160
> HF beefier HSS tool set 50
> HF slow speed wet grinder 50
> PSI chuck with jumbo jaws less than 100
>
> I have done some spindle turning but mostly segmented bowls. I am
> running out of space to put them and people to give them to. I think
> I do OK work with minimal expense. When I show a bowl no one admires
> the tools I made it with. I am satisfied with my tools. I am a
> sawdust maker rather than a tool collector and don't feel like I am
> sliding down the slippery slope. I won the bowl contest at the local
> Woodcraft store. You can buy the HF set for much less than a few
> tools others recommend.
>
> Some of my work is at
>
> http://ray80538.home.comcast.net/~ray80538/SegmentedBowl/segbowl.html
>
> Ray
Very nice Ray. DAMN nice actually!
On 2/7/2012 4:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Feb 7, 8:16 am, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> I have very successful reshaepening and like you the results are not the
>> same as what the factory delivered but I can't tell any difference. ;~)
>>
>> It probably takes me 15 minutes to simply get the sharpener ready to go
>> and the tool correctly inserted in the correct adapter. And then it is
>> another adapter for a different tool. And then clean up is a bit time
>> consuming and water is everywhere.
>
> Seriously Leon I think too much is made of sharpening. Like one of
> our hugely talented demonstrators (Allen Batty? ) told us, I want to
> turn, not sharpen. All of the demo guys have made note of the mirror
> edges some of the guys put on their tools, the perfect grinds, etc.,
> but none of them do it themselves.
>
> On my bowl gouges I like a medium fingernail grind. I can do that all
> day long with my favorite 3/8 gouge. Need a bit of help on my 1/2"
> gouge, and when I get the gouge completely out of whack I use a jig to
> get it back up to snuff.
>
> After having my sharpening revelation, I was quicker and more
> confident at the grinder. One of the guys I was teaching at the
> turning club open house told me " wow, the left side looks great, but
> the right side looks lopsided...". I keenly observed "ever use the
> right side of the gouge when turning a bowl?"
>
> I don't have the patience to spend more time sharpening than turning.
> And when I was so worried about my edges, I spend waaay too much time
> fussing over the perfect edge, only to hit a hidden knot, a small
> rock, a nail, and even one time a bullet! Found wood can be tough on
> tools. Plus, I like a fresh edge. So I turn for a few minutes until
> I know it isn't cutting well, then walk over to the grinder and
> freshen up the edge. Back at the lathe in about three minutes.
>
> And as noted here in another post, you will adjust to the sweet
> cutting spot on the tool while you are turning, right? So if it isn't
> a perfect XX degree grind, you adjust the tool angle and off you go.
> So much of turning is feel, I look at sharpening angles, profiles, as
> something to try. Using cheap tools to test the grinds, I have ground
> profiles on them I hated, then simply ground them off and gone to what
> I like. But I never experimented on my expensive stuff.
>
> As I tell the guys... "feel The Force"...
>
> I have seen your work, Leon. Anyone with your kind of talent, skill
> and dexterity can sharpen easily with just a little practice.
>
> As far as handles go, I have bought too much stuff from these guys:
>
> http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com
>
> Just go to the search box and type in "tool handles" and you will get
> 25 pages of handles, bits, accessories, etc.
>
> I am off the slope now, but must stay when I was on it, I loved
> turning more than anything I had done with wood since I learned to
> build simple cabinets back in the 70s. Way to much fun for me.
>
> Robert
Thank you again for the information Robert. I just don't seem to have
the time to spend turning and learning the process. I am sure that one
day I will. I think a faster grinder may be the answer for me.
On 2/7/2012 3:48 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 2/7/2012 12:34 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> On 2/7/2012 8:56 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/5/2012 7:31 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>>>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>>>> Ummm you will need turning tools, about $300 worth for starters.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indeed, he needs turning tools, but there's no reason they have
>>>>>>> to be *that* expensive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, probably not but if he gets into it the good tools work
>>>>>> better and he will probably want at least a few better tools.
>>>>>> Especially if he wants a better chuck, calipers...
>>>>>>
>>>>> Of course the good tools work better -- but he shouldn't spend a
>>>>> fortune on the first lathe or the first set of tools, when he
>>>>> doesn't even know yet if he's going to enjoy it. I think his best
>>>>> bet is to look for a decent used machine on Craigslist. If he
>>>>> doesn't like turning, he can re-sell it on CL and get most, if not
>>>>> all, of his money back.
>>>>
>>>> Correct and I did say to buy an inexpensive one in an earlier post
>>>> to determine if he is going to pursue this further. But if he gets
>>>> into this $300 is not going to look like a fortune in tools. Not
>>>> saying that $50 would not get him going on a set with several tools.
>>>> But an adjustable chuck is a nice thing to have and is going to put
>>>> a sizable dent in $300 quickly and sharpening is going to figure in
>>>> there somewhere.
>>>>
>>>> I am more warning about the slippery slope.
>>>>
>>> OK, gotcha. I think we've just been talking past each other. It
>>> sounded to me like you were saying he'd need to spend $300 on lathe
>>> tools *to start with*.
>>
>> Nope. Just a warning of things to come after bitten. LOL
>>
> To which I say, OhHellYes. And it's not just tools that you wind up spending money on...
>
> Next comes a sharpening system. Then a bigger and better lathe. More faceplates. A chuck. Then
> another chuck.
>
> Not to mention bowl blanks...
Anctually I did not realize/know you were big into turning.
On 2/7/2012 3:48 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 2/7/2012 12:34 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> On 2/7/2012 8:56 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/5/2012 7:31 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>>>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>>>> Ummm you will need turning tools, about $300 worth for starters.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indeed, he needs turning tools, but there's no reason they have
>>>>>>> to be *that* expensive.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, probably not but if he gets into it the good tools work
>>>>>> better and he will probably want at least a few better tools.
>>>>>> Especially if he wants a better chuck, calipers...
>>>>>>
>>>>> Of course the good tools work better -- but he shouldn't spend a
>>>>> fortune on the first lathe or the first set of tools, when he
>>>>> doesn't even know yet if he's going to enjoy it. I think his best
>>>>> bet is to look for a decent used machine on Craigslist. If he
>>>>> doesn't like turning, he can re-sell it on CL and get most, if not
>>>>> all, of his money back.
>>>>
>>>> Correct and I did say to buy an inexpensive one in an earlier post
>>>> to determine if he is going to pursue this further. But if he gets
>>>> into this $300 is not going to look like a fortune in tools. Not
>>>> saying that $50 would not get him going on a set with several tools.
>>>> But an adjustable chuck is a nice thing to have and is going to put
>>>> a sizable dent in $300 quickly and sharpening is going to figure in
>>>> there somewhere.
>>>>
>>>> I am more warning about the slippery slope.
>>>>
>>> OK, gotcha. I think we've just been talking past each other. It
>>> sounded to me like you were saying he'd need to spend $300 on lathe
>>> tools *to start with*.
>>
>> Nope. Just a warning of things to come after bitten. LOL
>>
> To which I say, OhHellYes. And it's not just tools that you wind up spending money on...
>
> Next comes a sharpening system. Then a bigger and better lathe. More faceplates. A chuck. Then
> another chuck.
>
> Not to mention bowl blanks...
LOL Seeeee.....
On 2/7/2012 8:56 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 2/5/2012 7:31 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>> Ummm you will need turning tools, about $300 worth for starters.
>>>
>>> Indeed, he needs turning tools, but there's no reason they have to be
>>> *that* expensive.
>>>
>> Well, probably not but if he gets into it the good tools work better
>> and he will probably want at least a few better tools.
>> Especially if he wants a better chuck, calipers...
>>
> Of course the good tools work better -- but he shouldn't spend a fortune on the first lathe or the first
> set of tools, when he doesn't even know yet if he's going to enjoy it. I think his best bet is to look for a
> decent used machine on Craigslist. If he doesn't like turning, he can re-sell it on CL and get most, if
> not all, of his money back.
Correct and I did say to buy an inexpensive one in an earlier post to
determine if he is going to pursue this further. But if he gets into
this $300 is not going to look like a fortune in tools. Not saying that
$50 would not get him going on a set with several tools. But an
adjustable chuck is a nice thing to have and is going to put a sizable
dent in $300 quickly and sharpening is going to figure in there somewhere.
I am more warning about the slippery slope.
"Leon" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On 2/6/2012 9:19 PM, CW wrote:
>
>
> "Leon" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> On 2/5/2012 9:17 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 19:25:08 -0600, Leon wrote:
>>
>>> I have several 15~20 turning tools and I hate sharpening. I am really
>>> seeing a lot of a new brand that never needs to be sharpened. They have
>>> replaceable carbide teeth tips and some have 4 new cutting edges. IIRC
>>> about $15 for replacement cutters. IIRC Craig of Kreg tools has
>>> introduced this line. Only need about $500 total for all the basic
>>> styles.
>>>
>>> http://www.easywoodtools.com/
>>
>> Here's another source - somewhat lower prices:
>>
>> http://www.woodchuck-tools.com/Tools.htm
>>
>
> Their replacement carbide tips certainly are a lot less expensive, looks
> to be 1/2.
> ===============================================================
> Take an insert and go down to an industrial supply that serves machines
> shops. Have them match it up. Much cheaper.
Any major name suppliers come to mind?
==================================================================
Kenametal, Hitachi, Iscar, Mitsubishi. There are many more but those come to
mind. Tell the guy behind the counter what you are going to do with it and
he should be able to set you up with a quality import that will work great
for wood and will likely cost no more than $2.00 per insert. They are
usually sold in boxes of ten. For 20 to 30 bucks you will be set for years.
Finding a supplier should not be hard. Lots of things made in Texas.
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 2/5/2012 2:10 PM, Justin Time wrote:
>> I asked about Rikon since I have $300 worth of gift cards for
>> Woodcraft and a Rikon mini lathe cost $399. Comparing it to the other
>> three floor models yesterday (Two Jets and a Delta), it was cheaper,
>> but had the same HP. The one Jet VS and the Delta were variable
>> speed. The other Jet mini and the Rikon were not. The Rikon length
>> was longer than the two Jets but an inch shorther than the Delta.
>>
>> I may take the plunge since the overall cost for me is $100.
>>
>> Thanks for the input.
>>
>>
>
> Ummm you will need turning tools, about $300 worth for starters.
Indeed, he needs turning tools, but there's no reason they have to be *that* expensive.
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 2/5/2012 7:31 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>> Ummm you will need turning tools, about $300 worth for starters.
>>
>> Indeed, he needs turning tools, but there's no reason they have to be
>> *that* expensive.
>>
> Well, probably not but if he gets into it the good tools work better
> and he will probably want at least a few better tools.
> Especially if he wants a better chuck, calipers...
>
Of course the good tools work better -- but he shouldn't spend a fortune on the first lathe or the first
set of tools, when he doesn't even know yet if he's going to enjoy it. I think his best bet is to look for a
decent used machine on Craigslist. If he doesn't like turning, he can re-sell it on CL and get most, if
not all, of his money back.
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 2/7/2012 8:56 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 2/5/2012 7:31 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>> Ummm you will need turning tools, about $300 worth for starters.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, he needs turning tools, but there's no reason they have to
>>>> be *that* expensive.
>>>>
>>> Well, probably not but if he gets into it the good tools work better
>>> and he will probably want at least a few better tools.
>>> Especially if he wants a better chuck, calipers...
>>>
>> Of course the good tools work better -- but he shouldn't spend a
>> fortune on the first lathe or the first set of tools, when he doesn't
>> even know yet if he's going to enjoy it. I think his best bet is to
>> look for a decent used machine on Craigslist. If he doesn't like
>> turning, he can re-sell it on CL and get most, if not all, of his
>> money back.
>
> Correct and I did say to buy an inexpensive one in an earlier post to
> determine if he is going to pursue this further. But if he gets into
> this $300 is not going to look like a fortune in tools. Not saying
> that $50 would not get him going on a set with several tools. But an
> adjustable chuck is a nice thing to have and is going to put a sizable
> dent in $300 quickly and sharpening is going to figure in there
> somewhere.
>
> I am more warning about the slippery slope.
>
OK, gotcha. I think we've just been talking past each other. It sounded to me like you were saying
he'd need to spend $300 on lathe tools *to start with*.
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 2/7/2012 12:34 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 2/7/2012 8:56 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/5/2012 7:31 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>>> Ummm you will need turning tools, about $300 worth for starters.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed, he needs turning tools, but there's no reason they have
>>>>>> to be *that* expensive.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Well, probably not but if he gets into it the good tools work
>>>>> better and he will probably want at least a few better tools.
>>>>> Especially if he wants a better chuck, calipers...
>>>>>
>>>> Of course the good tools work better -- but he shouldn't spend a
>>>> fortune on the first lathe or the first set of tools, when he
>>>> doesn't even know yet if he's going to enjoy it. I think his best
>>>> bet is to look for a decent used machine on Craigslist. If he
>>>> doesn't like turning, he can re-sell it on CL and get most, if not
>>>> all, of his money back.
>>>
>>> Correct and I did say to buy an inexpensive one in an earlier post
>>> to determine if he is going to pursue this further. But if he gets
>>> into this $300 is not going to look like a fortune in tools. Not
>>> saying that $50 would not get him going on a set with several tools.
>>> But an adjustable chuck is a nice thing to have and is going to put
>>> a sizable dent in $300 quickly and sharpening is going to figure in
>>> there somewhere.
>>>
>>> I am more warning about the slippery slope.
>>>
>> OK, gotcha. I think we've just been talking past each other. It
>> sounded to me like you were saying he'd need to spend $300 on lathe
>> tools *to start with*.
>
> Nope. Just a warning of things to come after bitten. LOL
>
To which I say, OhHellYes. And it's not just tools that you wind up spending money on...
Next comes a sharpening system. Then a bigger and better lathe. More faceplates. A chuck. Then
another chuck.
Not to mention bowl blanks...
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 2/7/2012 3:48 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 2/7/2012 12:34 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/7/2012 8:56 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/5/2012 7:31 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>>>>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>>>>> Ummm you will need turning tools, about $300 worth for
>>>>>>>>> starters.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Indeed, he needs turning tools, but there's no reason they have
>>>>>>>> to be *that* expensive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, probably not but if he gets into it the good tools work
>>>>>>> better and he will probably want at least a few better tools.
>>>>>>> Especially if he wants a better chuck, calipers...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course the good tools work better -- but he shouldn't spend a
>>>>>> fortune on the first lathe or the first set of tools, when he
>>>>>> doesn't even know yet if he's going to enjoy it. I think his best
>>>>>> bet is to look for a decent used machine on Craigslist. If he
>>>>>> doesn't like turning, he can re-sell it on CL and get most, if
>>>>>> not all, of his money back.
>>>>>
>>>>> Correct and I did say to buy an inexpensive one in an earlier post
>>>>> to determine if he is going to pursue this further. But if he
>>>>> gets into this $300 is not going to look like a fortune in tools.
>>>>> Not saying that $50 would not get him going on a set with several
>>>>> tools.
>>>>> But an adjustable chuck is a nice thing to have and is going to
>>>>> put
>>>>> a sizable dent in $300 quickly and sharpening is going to figure
>>>>> in there somewhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am more warning about the slippery slope.
>>>>>
>>>> OK, gotcha. I think we've just been talking past each other. It
>>>> sounded to me like you were saying he'd need to spend $300 on lathe
>>>> tools *to start with*.
>>>
>>> Nope. Just a warning of things to come after bitten. LOL
>>>
>> To which I say, OhHellYes. And it's not just tools that you wind up
>> spending money on...
>>
>> Next comes a sharpening system. Then a bigger and better lathe. More
>> faceplates. A chuck. Then another chuck.
>>
>> Not to mention bowl blanks...
>
> Anctually I did not realize/know you were big into turning.
I wouldn't say that I'm really "big into turning", not the way some guys are. I have fun with it, make a
few things here and there, but most of the woodworking I do is building furniture.
Did make a coupla baseball bats as Christmas gifts for my boys about 8-10 years ago...
>
Ray <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> http://ray80538.home.comcast.net/~ray80538/SegmentedB
WOW! That's some amazing work, Ray. Thanks for the link. I especially appreciate seeing your
detailed step-by-step photos of the process. Very nice.
On 2/7/2012 12:34 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 2/7/2012 8:56 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> On 2/5/2012 7:31 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>> Ummm you will need turning tools, about $300 worth for starters.
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed, he needs turning tools, but there's no reason they have to
>>>>> be *that* expensive.
>>>>>
>>>> Well, probably not but if he gets into it the good tools work better
>>>> and he will probably want at least a few better tools.
>>>> Especially if he wants a better chuck, calipers...
>>>>
>>> Of course the good tools work better -- but he shouldn't spend a
>>> fortune on the first lathe or the first set of tools, when he doesn't
>>> even know yet if he's going to enjoy it. I think his best bet is to
>>> look for a decent used machine on Craigslist. If he doesn't like
>>> turning, he can re-sell it on CL and get most, if not all, of his
>>> money back.
>>
>> Correct and I did say to buy an inexpensive one in an earlier post to
>> determine if he is going to pursue this further. But if he gets into
>> this $300 is not going to look like a fortune in tools. Not saying
>> that $50 would not get him going on a set with several tools. But an
>> adjustable chuck is a nice thing to have and is going to put a sizable
>> dent in $300 quickly and sharpening is going to figure in there
>> somewhere.
>>
>> I am more warning about the slippery slope.
>>
> OK, gotcha. I think we've just been talking past each other. It sounded to me like you were saying
> he'd need to spend $300 on lathe tools *to start with*.
Nope. Just a warning of things to come after bitten. LOL
Craigs List, Garage Sales,
You can get some nice used equip for a reasonable price, sometimes a steal.
On 2/4/2012 11:21 PM, Justin Time wrote:
> I'm considering dipping into the lathe adventure and want to purchase a mini
> lathe. What features are necessary and what other specs should I be looking
> for? How good is Rikon products? Any name brand to stay away from? Any other
> info also appreciated.
>
> Thank you.
>
>
On 2/8/2012 1:06 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:11:45 -0600, Leon wrote:
>
>> Thank you again for the information Robert. I just don't seem to have
>> the time to spend turning and learning the process. I am sure that one
>> day I will. I think a faster grinder may be the answer for me.
>
> Leon, I use a slow sped 6" grinder and the Wolverine jigs. One of these
> days I'll get the 8" grinder when Woodcraft has it on sale - comes with
> the white wheels so th grinder is almost thrown in for free.
>
> I don't like sharpening either, and I'm certainly not an expert at it,
> but the way I do it is a lot faster than a wet wheel - anybody's wet
> wheel.
>
>
>
No doubt Larry, when I get the time and start turning for fun again I
will look into the other grinder options.
wrote in message
news:d01a0c1b-8021-468e-b49c-edcd505943fb@k28g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 5, 7:25 pm, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
The tools you are looking at are machinist tools, and you can find
many of the "bits" in a machinist's catalog. They are plentiful and
cheap. They can be resharpened with diamond files like these
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2063622/24691/DMT-25-DiaSharp-Diamond-MiniHone-Sharpening-Stone-Fine.aspx
and their brothers. The only thing I don't like about those is the
fact that they are still scrapers, not cutters. I have seen some
lovely work in the right hands when using those tools, but never
finish grade work. They do make excellent shape roughing tools, as
well as the opposite end, detailing like rings, beads, etc, if you
have enough room to get the holder in place.
Robert
=========================================================================================
I wondered why it was that so many dissed scrapers but seemed to think these
were great. A scraper is a scraper no matter the material it is made of.
On Feb 8, 7:36=A0am, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Absolutely. _Hand_ carving wood takes Scary(tm) sharpness.
> Lathe work is a whole helluva lot more forgiving...on most woods.
I agree. We have one of the most talented carvers I have ever met or
see right here in San Antonio. Sadly, he is an eccetric (how's that
ofr PC?), and prefers to work only when he needs money.
The other time he works is to support his native Indian causes. He
doesn't make garden gnomes, Santas, or elves. He carves things like
real-size buffalo head nickels with all detailing except text. He
carves cameos from exotic woods, and carves holy figurines for
churches.
And he sleeps a lot in his shop while dreaming of projects.
Great guy. Tried to do a small project with him and we got stuck on
something called a "schedule". It was a new word for him, and we
should have defined it up front. We are better off friends.
BTW, he never sharpens his tools. He reprofiles to the shape he
wants, then uses a strop and green diamond compound to re-hone the
edges.
Oddly... he can't sharpen a pocket knife...
Robert
On 2/5/2012 10:18 PM, Matt wrote:
> On 2/5/2012 6:25 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/5/2012 4:54 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 2/5/12 4:45 PM, Justin Time wrote:
>>>> Yes, I did neglect the turning tools cost, but upon the advice given,
>>>> I'll
>>>> start with the HF tools or the Amazon as you listed.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you
>>>>
>>>
>>> Any HSS tools will work great until you start to notice the difference
>>> in better steel.
>>> But, you may want to go ahead and spend the rest of the $300 Leon
>>> suggested on sharpening tools. Sharpening tools are multi-taskers so you
>>> will use them on more than just turning tools, even if you decide you
>>> don't like turning. And if you end up loving turning and upgrade to
>>> higher quality turning tools, you'll already have the sharpening tools.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I have several 15~20 turning tools and I hate sharpening. I am really
>> seeing a lot of a new brand that never needs to be sharpened. They have
>> replaceable carbide teeth tips and some have 4 new cutting edges. IIRC
>> about $15 for replacement cutters. IIRC Craig of Kreg tools has
>> introduced this line. Only need about $500 total for all the basic
>> styles.
>>
>> http://www.easywoodtools.com/
>
> I have the Easywood Mini finisher - it's the only tool I use anymore for
> pen turning. Works great!
>
> Matt
Great, I have heard nothing but good comments about the tools. Do they
work well on the more exotic materials like the plastics, coffee beans,
money blanks, etc?
On 2/8/2012 1:36 PM, Ray wrote:
> I have done some spindle turning but mostly segmented bowls. I am
> running out of space to put them and people to give them to. I think
> I do OK work with minimal expense. When I show a bowl no one admires
> the tools I made it with. I am satisfied with my tools. I am a
> sawdust maker rather than a tool collector and don't feel like I am
> sliding down the slippery slope. I won the bowl contest at the local
> Woodcraft store. You can buy the HF set for much less than a few
> tools others recommend.
>
> Some of my work is at
>
> http://ray80538.home.comcast.net/~ray80538/SegmentedBowl/segbowl.html
Saw a guy in Hot Springs, AR a couple of years ago who was selling, and
getting buyers, with much less spectacular turnings than yours, and for
a nice price ... some in the hundreds.
That's some gorgeous work!
--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
On Feb 5, 7:25 pm, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> I have several 15~20 turning tools and I hate sharpening. I am really
> seeing a lot of a new brand that never needs to be sharpened. They have
> replaceable carbide teeth tips and some have 4 new cutting edges. IIRC
> about $15 for replacement cutters.
Leon - what is it that gets you on sharpening? Spindle gouges,
roughing gouges, bowl gouges.... skews?
When I the turning bug really bad, I turned a few hours a week for
several years. No piece of wood was safe, especially interesting FOG
wood. (Found On Ground. ;^) )
I taught beginning and intermediate turning, and (of course)
finishing. Part of my class was sharpening, and I taught how to use
the Wolverine jig as well as homemade versions of the same for various
gouges. I have turned enough personally that I sharpen freehand.
At the time our club was very active and we were able to afford some
internationally known, excellent turners to come demonstrate for our
club. Most were **great** guys, and even though they were masters of
their craft, completely without pretense. Ask 'em anything, and they
would tell you. Sharpening was always a hot topic, and they helped me
get over any qualms about grinding my tools. I studied their tool
edges carefully; never saw a perfect grind in my ten years at the
club. Never. Not once, ever, did I see any gouge or chisel ground to
look like those beautiful grinds from the factory.
Most were faceted, some kind of lopsided, and depending on the tool,
just awful. Nonetheless, their work was superb. Collectively, their
idea was that they sharpened to get the edge they wanted, and when
that was gone, it was right back to the grinder for a touch up. They
never fussed over an edge until they were at the finishing stage of
things, and even then stressed a light touch over a supersharp tool.
And being freehand sharpeners, they sharpened some wild profiles on
their tools, and encouraged all of us to do the same.
I set aside my Sorby and other expensive tools, and found these tools
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/LCAN6M.html
that are an excellent value for midi users. (On sale I see, too!)
For a bigger lathe, I would tell the guys to get certain (or sets if
on sale) from this selection:
http://www.pennstateind.com/store/woodturning-tools.html
Their tools are M2 high speed steel, and they hold their edges well
and are easy to sharpen. That gave me the space to grind away on
tools without thinking that every missed grind cost me $5 worth of
steel. And I like their profiles so much (the gullets aren't so damn
closed on their bowl gouges) I have happily bought many of their tools
as preferred users.
In a rare stroke of inspiration, I had my students practice on
something even cheaper. I had them get 1/4". 3/8" and 1/2" low carb
steel rod from our local
supplier, cut it into 10" lengths, and mount their "blanks" into a
handle they turned. Then they could practice their sharpening on a
piece of very inexpensive steel rod, not on a tool. This turned out
to be very successful for some of them, and they learned spindle
turning (handle), making their own tools, and sharpening in one
project.
My only bugaboo is the skew. I can sharpen all of mine until you can
literally shave hair. They are as sharp as my pocket knives. But
unless it is a planing cut, I can't get it. When we had "open house"
which was a chance for all of us to bring the tool(s) we couldn't use
to get help from other turners, it was always the skew. I don't know
what it is I can't see when using it, and it is really, really
frustrating. I can use the tool when my skew buddy was standing there
telling me to raise or lower my elbow, change my approach angle, or to
angle the blade a certain way. By the time I got home, it was all
lost. After hours and hours of failed attempts, I have given up. My
skew is now used to open paint cans, scrape paint, knock the mud off
my boots, weed the yard, etc.
Just kidding.
I now use what is known as the 180 grit skew in the form of sanding
tape.
The tools you are looking at are machinist tools, and you can find
many of the "bits" in a machinist's catalog. They are plentiful and
cheap. They can be resharpened with diamond files like these
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2063622/24691/DMT-25-DiaSharp-Diamond-MiniHone-Sharpening-Stone-Fine.aspx
and their brothers. The only thing I don't like about those is the
fact that they are still scrapers, not cutters. I have seen some
lovely work in the right hands when using those tools, but never
finish grade work. They do make excellent shape roughing tools, as
well as the opposite end, detailing like rings, beads, etc, if you
have enough room to get the holder in place.
Robert
Yup!
-------
"Dave" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I'm guessing
"Leon" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On 2/5/2012 9:17 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 19:25:08 -0600, Leon wrote:
>
>> I have several 15~20 turning tools and I hate sharpening. I am really
>> seeing a lot of a new brand that never needs to be sharpened. They have
>> replaceable carbide teeth tips and some have 4 new cutting edges. IIRC
>> about $15 for replacement cutters. IIRC Craig of Kreg tools has
>> introduced this line. Only need about $500 total for all the basic
>> styles.
>>
>> http://www.easywoodtools.com/
>
> Here's another source - somewhat lower prices:
>
> http://www.woodchuck-tools.com/Tools.htm
>
Their replacement carbide tips certainly are a lot less expensive, looks
to be 1/2.
===============================================================
Take an insert and go down to an industrial supply that serves machines
shops. Have them match it up. Much cheaper.
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 10:56:32 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 2/7/2012 8:56 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 2/5/2012 7:31 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>> Ummm you will need turning tools, about $300 worth for starters.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, he needs turning tools, but there's no reason they have to be
>>>> *that* expensive.
>>>>
>>> Well, probably not but if he gets into it the good tools work better
>>> and he will probably want at least a few better tools.
>>> Especially if he wants a better chuck, calipers...
>>>
>> Of course the good tools work better -- but he shouldn't spend a fortune on the first lathe or the first
>> set of tools, when he doesn't even know yet if he's going to enjoy it. I think his best bet is to look for a
>> decent used machine on Craigslist. If he doesn't like turning, he can re-sell it on CL and get most, if
>> not all, of his money back.
>
>Correct and I did say to buy an inexpensive one in an earlier post to
>determine if he is going to pursue this further. But if he gets into
>this $300 is not going to look like a fortune in tools. Not saying that
>$50 would not get him going on a set with several tools. But an
>adjustable chuck is a nice thing to have and is going to put a sizable
>dent in $300 quickly and sharpening is going to figure in there somewhere.
>
>I am more warning about the slippery slope.
I have been doing lathe work for about a year. My total expense has
been:
HF 12" Lathe 160
HF beefier HSS tool set 50
HF slow speed wet grinder 50
PSI chuck with jumbo jaws less than 100
I have done some spindle turning but mostly segmented bowls. I am
running out of space to put them and people to give them to. I think
I do OK work with minimal expense. When I show a bowl no one admires
the tools I made it with. I am satisfied with my tools. I am a
sawdust maker rather than a tool collector and don't feel like I am
sliding down the slippery slope. I won the bowl contest at the local
Woodcraft store. You can buy the HF set for much less than a few
tools others recommend.
Some of my work is at
http://ray80538.home.comcast.net/~ray80538/SegmentedBowl/segbowl.html
Ray
>I'm considering dipping into the lathe adventure and want to purchase a mini
>lathe. What features are necessary and what other specs should I be looking
>for? How good is Rikon products? Any name brand to stay away from? Any other
>info also appreciated.
>=============================================
>I have a Jet. Mine does not have a variable speed. The variable speed on a
>motor that small wastes to much power. Get a belt change type. I have not
>used a Rikon but have heard good things about them. CW
I have a Jet mini w/o the variable speed and it works great. I used
one in a few local classes and decided it was the best for the money.
Most turners in my area have one and/or a larger model. Our local
turning club uses them for all the meetings, demonstrations and
gatherings. Very well made, IMHO.
That being said, it's looking like I am going to have to sell mine
this year. I hate to part with it but between the economy and my
personal health, I just can't spend much time in front of it. I've
already given away a good deal of wood to some club members and, let
me tell you, it's really hard to part with wood, especially stuff like
150 year old pear wood. <sigh> Oh well, life is what it is.
Justin Time wrote:
> I'm considering dipping into the lathe adventure and want to purchase a
> mini lathe. What features are necessary and what other specs should I be
> looking for? How good is Rikon products? Any name brand to stay away from?
> Any other info also appreciated.
>
> Thank you.
It really depends on where you are in your desire to get into turning. By
that I mean, "Does it just seem like a neat idea, or do you have friends who
turn and have seriously caught the bug?" If the former, (heresy disclaimer
inserted) catch Harbor Freight's mini on sale. You get to turn, find out if
you like it and it does no hit the pocket book so hard.
Also, you will need a set of gouges, Harbor Frieght also has a very
servicable set of gouges (oh, believe me, if you got seriouly bitten by the
bug you will upgrade) that will do very nicely for you while you are
learning.
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=gouges
(In fact, if you catch the sale right, you can get their 12x36 lathe for a
very reasonable price. Its a knock off of the Jet 12X36. - Again, if you
really have the bug, you will upgrade, but this gets you in without selling
your first born.)
Then a good book/video (I used Raffan's "Turning Wood") to give you some
pointers.
Deb
On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 17:47:11 -0500, "Justin Time" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 15:10:36 -0500, "Justin Time" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>I asked about Rikon since I have $300 worth of gift cards for Woodcraft
>>>and
>>>a Rikon mini lathe cost $399. Comparing it to the other three floor models
>>>yesterday (Two Jets and a Delta), it was cheaper, but had the same HP. The
>>>one Jet VS and the Delta were variable speed. The other Jet mini and the
>>>Rikon were not. The Rikon length was longer than the two Jets but an inch
>>>shorther than the Delta.
>>
>> Going for the variable speed model? Should be -well- worth the extra
>> $30. http://tinyurl.com/6thm8bf
>>
>>
>>>I may take the plunge since the overall cost for me is $100.
>>
>> What turning tools do you have now? It appears that none comes with
>> the lathe. HF used to have a halfway decent $10 set but it's $60 now.
>> $30 in the Amazone: http://tinyurl.com/6vel9ed Start with those,
>> figure out which you want/need to spend some real money on, and
>> upgrade only those gouges.
>>
>The Rikon on Amazon is actually cheaper than the one in the store.
>Unfortunately, unless I can use my Woodcraft gift cards somehow with Amazon,
>I will have to purchase at the store.
I saw that, but the VS is only available through Woodcraft via Amazon,
evidently.
--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin
On Sat, 04 Feb 2012 23:21:45 -0500, Justin Time wrote:
> I'm considering dipping into the lathe adventure and want to purchase a
> mini lathe. What features are necessary and what other specs should I be
> looking for? How good is Rikon products? Any name brand to stay away
> from? Any other info also appreciated.
>
My personal preference is the little General with the electronic speed
control and swivel head, but it's expensive.
http://www.amazon.com/General-International-25-200M1-Variable-Maxi-Lathe/
dp/B002KHNLZC
When I worked at Woodcraft, we had 3 Jet minis and 3 Rikon minis in the
classroom. The ones without electronic speed control. I liked the Rikon
a little better because belt changing was easier for my large hands, but
both proved they could stand up to heavy class use.
Your best be if you're patient is to look for a used lathe. Craigslist
is a good place to look, Ebay has gotten overpriced.
I agree with another poster's suggestion of the high speed steel tool set
from Harbor Freight. Great for a beginner. You might want to add a bowl
gouge and maybe a larger spindle gouge as you progress.
For that matter, HF's mini lathe looks remarkably like a copy of the
Jet. I have no idea of the quality, but HF does have a pretty good
return policy. Just keep swapping till you get a good one :-).
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-speed-bench-top-wood-lathe-65345.html
Good luck. Try to find a turners club near you - you'll learn a lot
quicker with some help.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
I asked about Rikon since I have $300 worth of gift cards for Woodcraft and
a Rikon mini lathe cost $399. Comparing it to the other three floor models
yesterday (Two Jets and a Delta), it was cheaper, but had the same HP. The
one Jet VS and the Delta were variable speed. The other Jet mini and the
Rikon were not. The Rikon length was longer than the two Jets but an inch
shorther than the Delta.
I may take the plunge since the overall cost for me is $100.
Thanks for the input.
On 2/9/2012 11:34 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Feb 9, 11:16 am, Larry Blanchard<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 18:36:24 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>> BTW, he never sharpens his tools. He reprofiles to the shape he wants,
>>>> then uses a strop and green diamond compound to re-hone the edges.
>>
>>> Yeah, there's a heck of a lot of honing between sharpenings with a
>>> gouge.
>>
>> Most of us know the following, but for those who haven't stopped to
>> consider it:
>>
>> The number of inches of wood removed in a carving is orders of magnitude
>> less than the inches removed in a few minutes of turning.
>>
>
> Yes, but the lathe has a 1/2 to 3 hp motor powering it. Someone else
> will have to figure the foot pounds of force where the 6 inch turning
> and the lathe gouge meet. I'm guessing its several times greater than
> the force applied by a human arm to the carving gouge where it meets
> the wood. Given the power provided by the lathe to force the wood
> into the lathe gouge, a lathe gouge can be very dull compared to a
> carving gouge powered by arm muscles. Jack hammers use dull cutting
> bits but still manage to cut concrete.
LOL Yeah I don't think jack hammers cut anything so much as beating in
to submission and breaking.
On Feb 9, 11:16=A0am, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 18:36:24 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
> >>BTW, he never sharpens his tools. =A0He reprofiles to the shape he want=
s,
> >>then uses a strop and green diamond compound to re-hone the edges.
>
> > Yeah, there's a heck of a lot of honing between sharpenings with a
> > gouge.
>
> Most of us know the following, but for those who haven't stopped to
> consider it:
>
> The number of inches of wood removed in a carving is orders of magnitude
> less than the inches removed in a few minutes of turning.
>
Yes, but the lathe has a 1/2 to 3 hp motor powering it. Someone else
will have to figure the foot pounds of force where the 6 inch turning
and the lathe gouge meet. I'm guessing its several times greater than
the force applied by a human arm to the carving gouge where it meets
the wood. Given the power provided by the lathe to force the wood
into the lathe gouge, a lathe gouge can be very dull compared to a
carving gouge powered by arm muscles. Jack hammers use dull cutting
bits but still manage to cut concrete.
On Wed, 08 Feb 2012 18:36:24 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>BTW, he never sharpens his tools. He reprofiles to the shape he wants,
>>then uses a strop and green diamond compound to re-hone the edges.
>
> Yeah, there's a heck of a lot of honing between sharpenings with a
> gouge.
Most of us know the following, but for those who haven't stopped to
consider it:
The number of inches of wood removed in a carving is orders of magnitude
less than the inches removed in a few minutes of turning.
Let's see - the lathe is turning at 2000rpm with a 6" diameter bowl blank
on it so ...
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On Wed, 8 Feb 2012 10:06:51 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Feb 8, 7:36 am, Larry Jaques <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>> Absolutely. _Hand_ carving wood takes Scary(tm) sharpness.
>> Lathe work is a whole helluva lot more forgiving...on most woods.
>
>I agree. We have one of the most talented carvers I have ever met or
>see right here in San Antonio. Sadly, he is an eccetric (how's that
>ofr PC?), and prefers to work only when he needs money.
Who's to say that he could keep up his artistic talent and expert
workmanship for 40 hours a week, every drudging week?
>The other time he works is to support his native Indian causes. He
>doesn't make garden gnomes, Santas, or elves.
Thank Tankashila for that.
>real-size buffalo head nickels with all detailing except text. He
>carves cameos from exotic woods, and carves holy figurines for
>churches.
Um, oh.
>And he sleeps a lot in his shop while dreaming of projects.
See? I toldja so.
>Great guy. Tried to do a small project with him and we got stuck on
>something called a "schedule". It was a new word for him, and we
>should have defined it up front. We are better off friends.
It's good that your friendship got through it intact.
>BTW, he never sharpens his tools. He reprofiles to the shape he
>wants, then uses a strop and green diamond compound to re-hone the
>edges.
Yeah, there's a heck of a lot of honing between sharpenings with a
gouge.
>Oddly... he can't sharpen a pocket knife...
Hah!
--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin
"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 15:10:36 -0500, "Justin Time" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I asked about Rikon since I have $300 worth of gift cards for Woodcraft
>>and
>>a Rikon mini lathe cost $399. Comparing it to the other three floor models
>>yesterday (Two Jets and a Delta), it was cheaper, but had the same HP. The
>>one Jet VS and the Delta were variable speed. The other Jet mini and the
>>Rikon were not. The Rikon length was longer than the two Jets but an inch
>>shorther than the Delta.
>
> Going for the variable speed model? Should be -well- worth the extra
> $30. http://tinyurl.com/6thm8bf
>
>
>>I may take the plunge since the overall cost for me is $100.
>
> What turning tools do you have now? It appears that none comes with
> the lathe. HF used to have a halfway decent $10 set but it's $60 now.
> $30 in the Amazone: http://tinyurl.com/6vel9ed Start with those,
> figure out which you want/need to spend some real money on, and
> upgrade only those gouges.
>
> --
> Energy and persistence alter all things.
> --Benjamin Franklin
Yes, I did neglect the turning tools cost, but upon the advice given, I'll
start with the HF tools or the Amazon as you listed.
Thank you
"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 5 Feb 2012 15:10:36 -0500, "Justin Time" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I asked about Rikon since I have $300 worth of gift cards for Woodcraft
>>and
>>a Rikon mini lathe cost $399. Comparing it to the other three floor models
>>yesterday (Two Jets and a Delta), it was cheaper, but had the same HP. The
>>one Jet VS and the Delta were variable speed. The other Jet mini and the
>>Rikon were not. The Rikon length was longer than the two Jets but an inch
>>shorther than the Delta.
>
> Going for the variable speed model? Should be -well- worth the extra
> $30. http://tinyurl.com/6thm8bf
>
>
>>I may take the plunge since the overall cost for me is $100.
>
> What turning tools do you have now? It appears that none comes with
> the lathe. HF used to have a halfway decent $10 set but it's $60 now.
> $30 in the Amazone: http://tinyurl.com/6vel9ed Start with those,
> figure out which you want/need to spend some real money on, and
> upgrade only those gouges.
>
The Rikon on Amazon is actually cheaper than the one in the store.
Unfortunately, unless I can use my Woodcraft gift cards somehow with Amazon,
I will have to purchase at the store.
On 2/5/12 4:45 PM, Justin Time wrote:
> Yes, I did neglect the turning tools cost, but upon the advice given, I'll
> start with the HF tools or the Amazon as you listed.
>
> Thank you
>
Any HSS tools will work great until you start to notice the difference
in better steel.
But, you may want to go ahead and spend the rest of the $300 Leon
suggested on sharpening tools. Sharpening tools are multi-taskers so you
will use them on more than just turning tools, even if you decide you
don't like turning. And if you end up loving turning and upgrade to
higher quality turning tools, you'll already have the sharpening tools.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 2/5/12 7:25 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/5/2012 4:54 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 2/5/12 4:45 PM, Justin Time wrote:
>>> Yes, I did neglect the turning tools cost, but upon the advice given,
>>> I'll
>>> start with the HF tools or the Amazon as you listed.
>>>
>>> Thank you
>>>
>>
>> Any HSS tools will work great until you start to notice the difference
>> in better steel.
>> But, you may want to go ahead and spend the rest of the $300 Leon
>> suggested on sharpening tools. Sharpening tools are multi-taskers so you
>> will use them on more than just turning tools, even if you decide you
>> don't like turning. And if you end up loving turning and upgrade to
>> higher quality turning tools, you'll already have the sharpening tools.
>>
>>
>
> I have several 15~20 turning tools and I hate sharpening. I am really
> seeing a lot of a new brand that never needs to be sharpened. They have
> replaceable carbide teeth tips and some have 4 new cutting edges. IIRC
> about $15 for replacement cutters. IIRC Craig of Kreg tools has
> introduced this line. Only need about $500 total for all the basic styles.
>
> http://www.easywoodtools.com/
That is VERY intriguing as I also hate sharpening.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:18:45 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
> HF used to have a halfway decent $10 set but it's $60 now. $30 in the
> Amazone: http://tinyurl.com/6vel9ed
Those are "mini" tools, Larry. A 1/4" roughing gouge? A 1/8" spindle
gouge? etc.. Good for turning pens and such, but not much good for
general spindle turning. And zilch for faceplate turning.
For a set, the HF is the best for the money. But all the OP really needs
to start turning is:
diamond parting tool
3/4" or 1" roughing gouge
3/8" or 1/2" spindle gouge
1/2" or 3/4" round nose scraper
In a pinch, he could make do with a spindle gouge and a parting tool, but
that gets old pretty quick. When he gets around to bowl (faceplate)
turning he can add a 1/2" bowl gouge.
But don't listen to me, here's a list from the local turners club:
<http://www.inwwoodturners.com/controls/articles/INW%20Woodturners%
20Beginners%20Tool%20List.pdf>
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 19:25:08 -0600, Leon wrote:
> I have several 15~20 turning tools and I hate sharpening. I am really
> seeing a lot of a new brand that never needs to be sharpened. They have
> replaceable carbide teeth tips and some have 4 new cutting edges. IIRC
> about $15 for replacement cutters. IIRC Craig of Kreg tools has
> introduced this line. Only need about $500 total for all the basic
> styles.
>
> http://www.easywoodtools.com/
Here's another source - somewhat lower prices:
http://www.woodchuck-tools.com/Tools.htm
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:17:16 -0600, Leon wrote:
> On 2/5/2012 9:17 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> Here's another source - somewhat lower prices:
>>
>> http://www.woodchuck-tools.com/Tools.htm
>>
>>
> Their replacement carbide tips certainly are a lot less expensive, looks
> to be 1/2.
I bought the rougher (unhandled) a couple of years ago along with extra
tips. I've been happy with it. The guy who makes them (IIRC, he's a
retired machinist) says he's sold them all over the world. If you have
any questions give him a call - he's a friendly cuss.
I like the looks of his new combo tool - I may have to save up for it.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:05:03 -0600, Leon wrote:
> Well, probably not but if he gets into it the good tools work better and
> he will probably want at least a few better tools. Especially if he
> wants a better chuck, calipers...
Don't discourage the poor guy, Leon. We all know the tool companies
should give away free lathes :-).
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 14:34:43 -0600, Leon wrote:
> On 2/6/2012 11:31 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> On Mon, 06 Feb 2012 06:17:16 -0600, Leon wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/5/2012 9:17 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>>
>>>> Here's another source - somewhat lower prices:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.woodchuck-tools.com/Tools.htm
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Their replacement carbide tips certainly are a lot less expensive,
>>> looks to be 1/2.
>>
>> I bought the rougher (unhandled) a couple of years ago along with extra
>> tips. I've been happy with it. The guy who makes them (IIRC, he's a
>> retired machinist) says he's sold them all over the world. If you have
>> any questions give him a call - he's a friendly cuss.
>>
>> I like the looks of his new combo tool - I may have to save up for it.
>>
>>
> So Larry how long comparatively do the carbide tips last would you say?
I'm probably not the person to ask. I was only turning about 4-8 hours a
week and then I got sidetracked into building a dulcimer. I haven't
turned anything but a handle for a veneer hammer in months.
But based on my limited experience, I'd say about 8 hours of actual use
per side, or 32 for an entire tip. Of course that depends a lot on the
wood. I was turning mostly domestic hardwoods - something like jatoba or
lignum vitae would be a lot harder on tip life.
(interesting - the Pan spell checker flagged jatoba but not lignum vitae)
I've heard comments that you can't sharpen the tips. I see no reason why
use of a diamond hone wouldn't extend tip life. When I run out of sharp
tips I plan on trying it. If I was smart, I'd touch up the tip after
each use the way I do with router bits, but I never seem to think of it
at the time.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On 2/7/2012 11:56 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/7/2012 8:56 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 2/5/2012 7:31 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>> Ummm you will need turning tools, about $300 worth for starters.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, he needs turning tools, but there's no reason they have to be
>>>> *that* expensive.
>>>>
>>> Well, probably not but if he gets into it the good tools work better
>>> and he will probably want at least a few better tools.
>>> Especially if he wants a better chuck, calipers...
>>>
>> Of course the good tools work better -- but he shouldn't spend a
>> fortune on the first lathe or the first
>> set of tools, when he doesn't even know yet if he's going to enjoy it.
>> I think his best bet is to look for a
>> decent used machine on Craigslist. If he doesn't like turning, he can
>> re-sell it on CL and get most, if
>> not all, of his money back.
>
> Correct and I did say to buy an inexpensive one in an earlier post to
> determine if he is going to pursue this further. But if he gets into
> this $300 is not going to look like a fortune in tools. Not saying that
> $50 would not get him going on a set with several tools. But an
> adjustable chuck is a nice thing to have and is going to put a sizable
> dent in $300 quickly and sharpening is going to figure in there somewhere.
>
> I am more warning about the slippery slope.
Ha! Ha! Ha! The slippery slope?? That's a good one!!!
Who ever heard of such a thing? : )
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 21:48:33 +0000, Doug Miller wrote:
> Not to mention bowl blanks...
There's several turners in the local AAW-associated group that swear
they've never bought a blank - they all have chainsaws in the trunk at
all times :-). Not sure what they do about exotic stuff, do without or
trade for it.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 19:11:45 -0600, Leon wrote:
> Thank you again for the information Robert. I just don't seem to have
> the time to spend turning and learning the process. I am sure that one
> day I will. I think a faster grinder may be the answer for me.
Leon, I use a slow sped 6" grinder and the Wolverine jigs. One of these
days I'll get the 8" grinder when Woodcraft has it on sale - comes with
the white wheels so th grinder is almost thrown in for free.
I don't like sharpening either, and I'm certainly not an expert at it,
but the way I do it is a lot faster than a wet wheel - anybody's wet
wheel.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
Count me impressed! Nice work!
Ray wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 10:56:32 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/7/2012 8:56 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> On 2/5/2012 7:31 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>> Ummm you will need turning tools, about $300 worth for starters.
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed, he needs turning tools, but there's no reason they have to be
>>>>> *that* expensive.
>>>>>
>>>> Well, probably not but if he gets into it the good tools work better
>>>> and he will probably want at least a few better tools.
>>>> Especially if he wants a better chuck, calipers...
>>>>
>>> Of course the good tools work better -- but he shouldn't spend a fortune on the first lathe or the first
>>> set of tools, when he doesn't even know yet if he's going to enjoy it. I think his best bet is to look for a
>>> decent used machine on Craigslist. If he doesn't like turning, he can re-sell it on CL and get most, if
>>> not all, of his money back.
>>
>> Correct and I did say to buy an inexpensive one in an earlier post to
>> determine if he is going to pursue this further. But if he gets into
>> this $300 is not going to look like a fortune in tools. Not saying that
>> $50 would not get him going on a set with several tools. But an
>> adjustable chuck is a nice thing to have and is going to put a sizable
>> dent in $300 quickly and sharpening is going to figure in there somewhere.
>>
>> I am more warning about the slippery slope.
>
> I have been doing lathe work for about a year. My total expense has
> been:
>
> HF 12" Lathe 160
> HF beefier HSS tool set 50
> HF slow speed wet grinder 50
> PSI chuck with jumbo jaws less than 100
>
> I have done some spindle turning but mostly segmented bowls. I am
> running out of space to put them and people to give them to. I think
> I do OK work with minimal expense. When I show a bowl no one admires
> the tools I made it with. I am satisfied with my tools. I am a
> sawdust maker rather than a tool collector and don't feel like I am
> sliding down the slippery slope. I won the bowl contest at the local
> Woodcraft store. You can buy the HF set for much less than a few
> tools others recommend.
>
> Some of my work is at
>
> http://ray80538.home.comcast.net/~ray80538/SegmentedBowl/segbowl.html
>
> Ray
"Bill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Count me impressed! Nice work!
>
>
>
Impressed is an understatement. I'm in Awe. Great work.
Thanks for the compliments. I have been doing turning for about a
year so it may be too early to know about glue failures. I have been
doing woodworking for 65 years. In general I try to avoid cross grain
joints. Since most of the designs are cut rings on a scroll saw the
cross sections are thin. Most of the bowls end up 1/4" thick so there
is some give. I use yellow titebond II. I have felt some of the
older joints and can't feel any creep for the year old bowls. I have
experienced joint creep on other types of projects so I know what to
look for.
Ray
On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 07:11:45 -0800, Ralph E Lindberg
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> Ray <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> http://ray80538.home.comcast.net/~ray80538/SegmentedBowl/segbowl.html
>>
>> Ray
>
>Nice work Ray. Question, have you noted any glue failures in those
>forms where you are gluing side grain to end grain? If not, what glue
>are you using.
>
>Personally I have found I need to avoid that type of joint
In article <[email protected]>,
Ray <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> http://ray80538.home.comcast.net/~ray80538/SegmentedBowl/segbowl.html
>
> Ray
Nice work Ray. Question, have you noted any glue failures in those
forms where you are gluing side grain to end grain? If not, what glue
are you using.
Personally I have found I need to avoid that type of joint
--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv
On 2/5/2012 2:10 PM, Justin Time wrote:
> I asked about Rikon since I have $300 worth of gift cards for Woodcraft and
> a Rikon mini lathe cost $399. Comparing it to the other three floor models
> yesterday (Two Jets and a Delta), it was cheaper, but had the same HP. The
> one Jet VS and the Delta were variable speed. The other Jet mini and the
> Rikon were not. The Rikon length was longer than the two Jets but an inch
> shorther than the Delta.
>
> I may take the plunge since the overall cost for me is $100.
>
> Thanks for the input.
>
>
Ummm you will need turning tools, about $300 worth for starters.
On 2/7/2012 8:34 AM, Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Feb 2012 08:16:43 -0600, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> The Tormek sharpener gets me.
>> Too messy. Too slow. Too complicated.
>>
>> I have very successful reshaepening and like you the results are not the
>> same as what the factory delivered but I can't tell any difference. ;~)
>
> I'm guessing it would be fine for getting that great edge on knives or
> similar tools. That's one area I like my cutting tool to be razor
> sharp, especially so when I'm entertaining. It's then that I like the
> knife to be so sharp you only need to wave it at your prime rib and
> the entire roast falls over perfectly sliced.
>
> Seeing Robert's comments on not needing a specifically shaped edge for
> turning tools, it looks like all you need is most any sharp edge as
> long as you hold it at the correct angle.
The Tormek does do a good job on knives and scissors and rather quickly
but then The WorkSharp systems do too and much less expensively.
The trouble with those items is that they do not dull as quickly or
often as the tools I use in the shop. ;~)
On 2/5/2012 9:17 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 19:25:08 -0600, Leon wrote:
>
>> I have several 15~20 turning tools and I hate sharpening. I am really
>> seeing a lot of a new brand that never needs to be sharpened. They have
>> replaceable carbide teeth tips and some have 4 new cutting edges. IIRC
>> about $15 for replacement cutters. IIRC Craig of Kreg tools has
>> introduced this line. Only need about $500 total for all the basic
>> styles.
>>
>> http://www.easywoodtools.com/
>
> Here's another source - somewhat lower prices:
>
> http://www.woodchuck-tools.com/Tools.htm
>
Their replacement carbide tips certainly are a lot less expensive, looks
to be 1/2.
On Mon, 6 Feb 2012 03:11:06 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 13:18:45 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> HF used to have a halfway decent $10 set but it's $60 now. $30 in the
>> Amazone: http://tinyurl.com/6vel9ed
>
>Those are "mini" tools, Larry. A 1/4" roughing gouge? A 1/8" spindle
>gouge? etc.. Good for turning pens and such, but not much good for
>general spindle turning. And zilch for faceplate turning.
Wull, um, he's buying a mini-lathe, isn't he? ;)
--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin
On Mon, 6 Feb 2012 19:19:15 -0800, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>"Leon" wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>On 2/5/2012 9:17 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 19:25:08 -0600, Leon wrote:
>>
>>> I have several 15~20 turning tools and I hate sharpening. I am really
>>> seeing a lot of a new brand that never needs to be sharpened. They have
>>> replaceable carbide teeth tips and some have 4 new cutting edges. IIRC
>>> about $15 for replacement cutters. IIRC Craig of Kreg tools has
>>> introduced this line. Only need about $500 total for all the basic
>>> styles.
>>>
>>> http://www.easywoodtools.com/
>>
>> Here's another source - somewhat lower prices:
>>
>> http://www.woodchuck-tools.com/Tools.htm
>>
>
>Their replacement carbide tips certainly are a lot less expensive, looks
>to be 1/2.
>===============================================================
>Take an insert and go down to an industrial supply that serves machines
>shops. Have them match it up. Much cheaper.
Cheaper still are the $1 inserts on eBay. Round the end, grind a
step, drill and tap a hole in the end of an 18" piece of 1/2" bar
stock and you have yourself $110 worth of tool? Uh, huh.
--
Energy and persistence alter all things.
--Benjamin Franklin
"Leon" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On 2/7/2012 8:56 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 2/5/2012 7:31 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>> Ummm you will need turning tools, about $300 worth for starters.
>>>
>>> Indeed, he needs turning tools, but there's no reason they have to be
>>> *that* expensive.
>>>
>> Well, probably not but if he gets into it the good tools work better
>> and he will probably want at least a few better tools.
>> Especially if he wants a better chuck, calipers...
>>
> Of course the good tools work better -- but he shouldn't spend a fortune
> on the first lathe or the first
> set of tools, when he doesn't even know yet if he's going to enjoy it. I
> think his best bet is to look for a
> decent used machine on Craigslist. If he doesn't like turning, he can
> re-sell it on CL and get most, if
> not all, of his money back.
Correct and I did say to buy an inexpensive one in an earlier post to
determine if he is going to pursue this further. But if he gets into
this $300 is not going to look like a fortune in tools. Not saying that
$50 would not get him going on a set with several tools. But an
adjustable chuck is a nice thing to have and is going to put a sizable
dent in $300 quickly and sharpening is going to figure in there somewhere.
I am more warning about the slippery slope.
==================================================================
Yes, lathes are very expensive. The machine is the cheap part. At least it's
incremental rather than all at once.
"Justin Time" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
I'm considering dipping into the lathe adventure and want to purchase a mini
lathe. What features are necessary and what other specs should I be looking
for? How good is Rikon products? Any name brand to stay away from? Any other
info also appreciated.
==============================================================================
I have a Jet. Mine does not have a variable speed. The variable speed on a
motor that small wastes to much power. Get a belt change type. I have not
used a Rikon but have heard good things about them.
On 2/7/2012 2:36 PM, CW wrote:
>
>
> "Leon" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> On 2/6/2012 9:19 PM, CW wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Leon" wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> On 2/5/2012 9:17 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>>> On Sun, 05 Feb 2012 19:25:08 -0600, Leon wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have several 15~20 turning tools and I hate sharpening. I am really
>>>> seeing a lot of a new brand that never needs to be sharpened. They have
>>>> replaceable carbide teeth tips and some have 4 new cutting edges. IIRC
>>>> about $15 for replacement cutters. IIRC Craig of Kreg tools has
>>>> introduced this line. Only need about $500 total for all the basic
>>>> styles.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.easywoodtools.com/
>>>
>>> Here's another source - somewhat lower prices:
>>>
>>> http://www.woodchuck-tools.com/Tools.htm
>>>
>>
>> Their replacement carbide tips certainly are a lot less expensive, looks
>> to be 1/2.
>> ===============================================================
>> Take an insert and go down to an industrial supply that serves machines
>> shops. Have them match it up. Much cheaper.
>
> Any major name suppliers come to mind?
> ==================================================================
> Kenametal, Hitachi, Iscar, Mitsubishi. There are many more but those
> come to mind. Tell the guy behind the counter what you are going to do
> with it and he should be able to set you up with a quality import that
> will work great for wood and will likely cost no more than $2.00 per
> insert. They are usually sold in boxes of ten. For 20 to 30 bucks you
> will be set for years. Finding a supplier should not be hard. Lots of
> things made in Texas.
Thanks I remember that... Now all I need to do if find a handle
supplier. :~)
On 2/5/2012 7:31 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 2/5/2012 2:10 PM, Justin Time wrote:
>>> I asked about Rikon since I have $300 worth of gift cards for
>>> Woodcraft and a Rikon mini lathe cost $399. Comparing it to the other
>>> three floor models yesterday (Two Jets and a Delta), it was cheaper,
>>> but had the same HP. The one Jet VS and the Delta were variable
>>> speed. The other Jet mini and the Rikon were not. The Rikon length
>>> was longer than the two Jets but an inch shorther than the Delta.
>>>
>>> I may take the plunge since the overall cost for me is $100.
>>>
>>> Thanks for the input.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Ummm you will need turning tools, about $300 worth for starters.
>
> Indeed, he needs turning tools, but there's no reason they have to be *that* expensive.
>
Well, probably not but if he gets into it the good tools work better and
he will probably want at least a few better tools.
Especially if he wants a better chuck, calipers...