Comments on Sketchup

On Sep 17, 12:51=A0pm, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
[snipped the usual senseless shit]

Fuck off Stein, stop bothering me.

On Sep 16, 4:50=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > a) It makes you more efficient and there is a ROI which can be projecte=
d.
> > b) The guy across the street, the one you're competing with, doesn't ha=
ve
> > the capability you're about to invest in.
>
> Yeah, but only one of those reasons has gloat factor automatically built =
in.
> :)

Overheard:
"No point buying a cnc in this town, that mad Dutchman is two years
ahead already."

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 14:30:35 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 9/16/2010 2:06 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:
>> On 9/16/10 2:51 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:12:58 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/16/2010 11:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to buy
>>>>> each new version, too?
>>>>
>>>> As a Pro version owner (or "renter", depending upon the EULA de jour)
>>>> the upgrade price for me from 7 to 8 was $95.00.
>>>>
>>>> The original outlay for the Pro version is circa $495.00.
>>>
>>> OK, $500 to join and then roughly $100/yr for updates. Wow.
>>>
>> Can you say business write-off?
>> See, I knew you could.
>> :-)
>
>:)

Add my grin, too. :^)


>... cheap at ten times the price, and pays for itself multiple times
>each and every project.

That's the way to do it! You would probably like using Chief
Architect or SoftPLAN, too, but they're tougher to get up and running
with and are 5x the cost.


>Money making software when wielded with a modicum of business sense and
>without preconceived notions.

So, how many/which of the of the $500 v. Free functions are you using?
LayOut, etc? I still haven't spent the time to come up to speed with
it.

--
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country
against his government." --Edward Abbey

> Anyway that is my 2 cents worth. =A0I will continue to use Sketchup as
> it is fun to use (most of the time :-) ) I just wish it had more
> features that us woodworkers need to build our projects.
>
> Thanks for listening
> Marty

I have worked in the CAD software business for 20 years at my real job
and have expertise in and have worked for some of the biggest CAD
companies in this industry. Sketchup is by far the best at what it
does. However, it is not really production CAD and especially as it
relates to making drawings. I can create models in many of the most
expensive 3D modelers and I prefer to use Sketchup for my own home
work. However, I also use AutoCAD to make all my 2D drawings. I re-
draw every part, measured from the Sketchup drawing. I believe I could
save directly to AutoCAD from Pro Sketchup but I just use free version
and can likely draw 2D faster in AutoCAD than the copy process would
take.

For your case, you should make all pieces into components. The use the
Outliner Tool under the Window menu to control the visibility of
individual or groups fo components for creating drawings. I don't know
if dimensions and text can have visibility controlled with Outliner
because I don't do any of that in Sketchup, just models but if they
can, then you have a total solution.

On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 12:06:57 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sep 17, 12:51 pm, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
>[snipped the usual senseless shit]
>
>Fuck off Stein, stop bothering me.

Plonk him, Toy. (so it stops bothering the rest of us when you reply
to him.)

--
Some people are like Slinkies ... not really good for
anything, but you can't help smiling when you see one
tumble down the stairs.

On Sep 17, 12:29=A0pm, Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 9/16/2010 11:56 AM, RicodJour wrote:
>
> > On Sep 16, 11:36 am, Robatoy<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
> >> Just playing with it at their office, I found that it has come a long
> >> way since the days I found it to be merely a toy. It's all growed ups
> >> now. =3Do)
> > Oh, so I guess this is your drive-by "I guess I was wrong to trash SU
> > when I hadn't used it since Moses was a pup" apology?
>
> No, this is his lame attempt at an excuse to justify his trashing
> something he knew next to nothing about. =A0Rotoboy was trashing sketchup
> as a toy long after Swing, and millions of others were using it for
> designing houses, kitchens etc, etc. =A0Swing wasted a lot of time arguin=
g
> with the scum bag.
>
> --
> Jack
> The Problem with Socialism is you eventually run out of Other Peoples Mon=
ey!http://jbstein.com

Out on a weekend pass are you Douchenozzle?

On 10/2/2010 5:56 PM, Robatoy wrote:

> That means I can cut fancypants wigglyboos on my cnc from SU.

There's a guy on the sketchucation named charly2008 using a SU plugin
called Curviloft to do the basic SU drawings for some amazing renderings.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Try a program named Desktop pro 2000, i use it here to design and create
kitchen cupboards ect ect You can scale your creations, store them and
compare with your designs.It takes a few hours to get the main idea, but
once you have crossed that hurdle it is smooth sailing

Peter
Queensland, Australia
"Marty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several projects
> and am generally very happy with it.
>
> I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and even at
> times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a
> woodworking project. In several instances multiple files needed to be
> created for a project.
>
> My comments are about the free version because, after looking
> at what the "pro" version feature set is, it doesn't seem have features
> that I would find useful. Besides which, I also don't have that kind of
> money lying around.
>
> I bought a Dummies guide to Sketchup which helped a lot with the mechanics
> of using the program, but much
> of the book wrote about the pro version which did does not seem to help
> with building a woodworking project directly from the Sketchup drawings.
>
> I have two projects on the drawing board now that require
> two separate drawings for each, one showing the as built design and
> another showing an exploded view (manually exploded since I can't find a
> way for the program to explode a project) where I can add dimensions and
> other notations that I can build from.
>
> For example, these projects each have a face frame with multiple
> components, each of which needs dimensions added, so the face frame needs
> to be separated from the carcass. Then the carcass needs to "taken apart"
> and details of the design (dado', rabbit' etc) annotated and add
> dimensions. Then doors need to be exploded and design details and
> dimensions added. I could go on but you get the idea.
>
> At the very least I wish the program had the ability to add pages to the
> drawing so all of the design for a project would be in one file. I could
> then copy sub-assemblies (like doors, drawers, face frames etc) from one
> page to another, take apart the sub-assembly and annotate as needed. Also
> the ability to take apart a sub-assembly in a consistent manner would be
> nice. Are you listening Sketchup program designers?
>
> I have added a cut list plug-in that helps with the cut list, but it
> is also requires some manipulation to get the results I need to buy
> materials and machine the parts.
>
> Anyway that is my 2 cents worth. I will continue to use Sketchup as
> it is fun to use (most of the time :-) ) I just wish it had more features
> that us woodworkers need to build our projects.
>
> Thanks for listening
> Marty

On Sep 16, 4:58=A0pm, Marty <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 9/15/2010 4:04 PM, Swingman wrote:
> > On 9/15/2010 2:06 PM, Marty wrote:
>
> Thanks for your helpful comments see my additional
> comments and questions below.
>
> >> I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several
> >> projects and am generally very happy with it.
>
> >> I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and eve=
n
> >> at times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a
> >> woodworking project.
>
> > The more proficient you become, the quicker it goes ..
>
> > =A0> In several instances multiple files needed to be
> >> created for a project.
>
> > Designing numerous complete kitchens with SketchUp, I've never found
> > that a necessity.
>
> > Although in a file that includes numerous parts like a kitchen with 25
> > cabinets (each cabinet an individual component, made of all the
> > individual cabinet components) and a complicated island, I will often
> > "copy" and "paste in place" the island to an untitled file to work on i=
t
> > temporarily ... but, with proper use of "scenes" and "layers", this is
> > not even remotely necessary ... just me being in a hurry and not wantin=
g
> > to inadvertently take the chance of moving one of hundred components
> > that I may have forgotten to "lock" down.
>
> So how do you show details of components such as mortise/tenon joints,
> location of dado, rabbits and dimensions of each etc on the components
> that have them? Sure the cut list will show the overall dimension of a
> component but not these details. When you go into the shop to build
> these cabinets how do you know how to cut all of the details needed to
> build them?
>
> For example I just finished a kitchen island for our house (34" x 60")
> with 6 doors, 3 drawers, face frames, storage for books, shelving under
> the drawers, swing up mixer shelf with a drawer below it. =A0I ended up
> with about 10 pages (legal size paper) showing all of the details I
> needed to build each component. =A0I used a 2D CAD program to do this and
> can't imagine doing this with a single Sketchup drawing.
>
>
>
> >> My comments are about the free version because, after looking
> >> at what the "pro" version feature set is, it doesn't seem have feature=
s
> >> that I would find useful. Besides which, I also don't have that kind o=
f
> >> money lying around.
>
> > Until SketchUP8, there was really no functional difference in the
> > drawing/modeling side between free and Pro, with the Pro version
> > offering advanced printing and presentation, mostly using the included
> > "Layout" module.
>
> > Now the Pro version includes some solid modeling capability that is not
> > included in the free version.
>
> > Personally, I think this direction is big mistake by Google, who seems
> > to be getting a bit big for their internet britches lately.
>
> >> I bought a Dummies guide to Sketchup which helped a lot with the
> >> mechanics of using the program, but much
> >> of the book wrote about the pro version which did does not seem to hel=
p
> >> with building a woodworking project directly from the Sketchup drawing=
s.
>
> >> I have two projects on the drawing board now that require
> >> two separate drawings for each, one showing the as built design and
> >> another showing an exploded view (manually exploded since I can't find=
a
> >> way for the program to explode a project) where I can add dimensions a=
nd
> >> other notations that I can build from.
>
> > SketchUp can indeed handle that easily, you just have yet become
> > proficient enough with the program to do it. :)
>
> > In a word: "Scenes" and "Layers" ... learn them!
>
> > (Although I don't use it for exploded drawings (just explode them mysel=
f
> > using "scenes and layers"), you may want to try the plugin
> > ExplodeImplode from Smustard.com to see if it makes it easier for you).
>
> May get this but have to think about $20 for this feature.
>
> I have played with scenes and don't see how I can explode a drawing
> using scenes with out affecting the other scenes.
> As for layers I have used them in other CAD programs and again
> don't see how I can explode a drawing, add a number annotations as
> to how a project is built and do it with layer and/or scenes.

SketchUp is flexible and I'm sure there are better ways to do it than
mine, but it works and it's easy enough to do. I have no experience
with those plugins that were mentioned, so I basically just create an
exploded layer or layers and copy the components to the new layer and
move them to where I want them. With scenes you'd have the first
scene with everything together, and the exploded layer turned off,
then in the second scene you'd have the exploded layer turned on and
the original layer turned off. That's the quick idea, but it's better
with at least one more layer as there's usually a central master part/
assembly that everything else is attached to, so that can stay and be
visible in all scenes.

When you run an animation the change between scenes occurs in a series
of frames - a movie, and one layer turns off and the other turns on
(and the view changes if you've been tweaking the view in individual
scenes). By using a number of scenes and moving parts in a logical
order, that exploded parts assembly really will look like it's coming
apart or going together.

> Do you know of tutorials that show how to use Sketchup scenes and layers
> to show the details I need? =A0That would be very helpful.

I posted links to two of the bigger free tutorial sites in an earlier
post. If you really want to get tweaked, check out Sketchy Physics.

R

On Sep 16, 3:06=A0pm, FrozenNorth <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On 9/16/10 2:51 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:> On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:12:58 -05=
00, Swingman<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
>
> >> On 9/16/2010 11:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> >>> When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to buy
> >>> each new version, too?
>
> >> As a Pro version owner (or "renter", depending upon the EULA de jour)
> >> the upgrade price for me from 7 to 8 was $95.00.
>
> >> The original outlay for the Pro version is circa $495.00.
>
> > OK, $500 to join and then roughly $100/yr for updates. =A0Wow.
>
> Can you say business write-off?
> See, I knew you could.
> :-)
> --
> Froz...
>
> The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

The trick about those 'write-offs' is that you need to show a taxable
profit first. *S*

On Sep 16, 11:36=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sep 15, 4:04=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > On 9/15/2010 2:06 PM, Marty wrote:
>
> > > I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several
> > > projects and am generally very happy with it.
>
> > > I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and ev=
en
> > > at times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a
> > > woodworking project.
>
> > The more proficient you become, the quicker it goes ..
>
> The people who bought my countertop business are doing all their
> proposals and quotes with SketchUp. They are vey happy with the
> freebie and learned quickly to sketch and dimension countertop
> layouts.
> Just playing with it at their office, I found that it has come a long
> way since the days I found it to be merely a toy. It's all growed ups
> now. =3Do)
> And my goodness, the quantity of support libraries and aps is just
> astounding.

Oh, so I guess this is your drive-by "I guess I was wrong to trash SU
when I hadn't used it since Moses was a pup" apology?

Apology accepted.

> It still looks like shit, though....g,d & r.

There's an app for that. You can use plugins or other programs to
tweak the SU model to make it photorealistic, though why someone would
need to do that for a countertop layout, I have no idea. I take
pictures of a material and use the JPG as a material in SU. You can't
get more real than real.

R

On 9/17/2010 11:46 AM, Swingman wrote:

> <http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Hutch Cabinet-Carcase & Base
> Style-AsBuilt.zip>

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Hutch Cabinet-Carcase & Base
Style-AsBuilt.zip

Damn Thunderbird ... or dummy operator.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 9/16/2010 3:58 PM, Marty wrote:

> So how do you show details of components such as mortise/tenon joints,
> location of dado, rabbits and dimensions of each etc on the components
> that have them? Sure the cut list will show the overall dimension of a
> component but not these details. When you go into the shop to build
> these cabinets how do you know how to cut all of the details needed to
> build them?
>
> For example I just finished a kitchen island for our house (34" x 60")
> with 6 doors, 3 drawers, face frames, storage for books, shelving under
> the drawers, swing up mixer shelf with a drawer below it. I ended up
> with about 10 pages (legal size paper) showing all of the details I
> needed to build each component. I used a 2D CAD program to do this and
> can't imagine doing this with a single Sketchup drawing.

While your above example is quite possible with SU using scenes and
layers, the question is why would you want to?

IOW, if you're designing and building a car, why have the parts for the
motor in the same file as the body? :)

Example: Following are two SU files of end cabinets that a client
ordered to match a kitchen cabinet style hutch I had previously built
for her. The client lives in a different city, so the ability for her to
be able to download the free version of SU and view the files was
important in doing this long distance.

This first file, made strictly for design purposes and was made up of
components from both the proposed end cabinet design(s) I was working on
at the time and the file I had originally used to build the kitchen
cabinet hutch, is the actual file was e-mailed back and forth to give
her a choice in the design and to determine which end cabinet style
(Frame and Panel, or match the "kitchen cabinet" look of the original)
she would prefer.

(Keep in mind that the original hutch was designed to go in a kitchen,
thus the "kitchen cabinet" type case work involved in both files):

<http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Hutch Cabinets-Ver1b.zip>

This second file was what I call an "as-built" file and what was used to
both make a cutlist, and to build the actual cabinets:

<http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Hutch Cabinet-Carcase & Base
Style-AsBuilt.zip>

That said, I know in advance how I want to build things like frame and
panel doors, so I really don't need to go into detail with mortise and
tenons, etc in most of my SU models.

My goal with SU is mostly overall dimensions, stylistic elements, and
enough component detail to generate a cutlist for the particular method
I'm going to use to build the end product.

PLUS the thought process involved in building the piece on "paper" first
before ever going into the shop, which keeps you from building yourself
into corners without a plan and having to field engineer your way out. :)

> May get this but have to think about $20 for this feature.

I can't advise you there ... I don't use it. Instead I do the exploding
myself using scenes and layers to explode a copy of the original
component to be exloded.

> I have played with scenes and don't see how I can explode a drawing
> using scenes with out affecting the other scenes.
> As for layers I have used them in other CAD programs and again
> don't see how I can explode a drawing, add a number annotations as
> to how a project is built and do it with layer and/or scenes.
>
> Do you know of tutorials that show how to use Sketchup scenes and layers
> to show the details I need? That would be very helpful.

There are a few tutorials on youtube on using scenes and layer, but
perhaps this simpler file of a support assembly will give you an idea of
how to use scenes and layers to do an exploded drawing of a component,
made up of other components:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/ExplodedDrawing.zip

In all the examples above, what you are looking for are example of the
use of scenes and layers to effect some of the things you are asking
about WITHOUT cluttering up your drawings with multiple copies of the
same thing spread all over universe, which makes for a much bigger file
and one that is harder for your graphic subsystem to display,
particularly if you're short of horsepower in that regard.

That is not to say that is not a valid method ... I just prefer the
tidiness and ultimate organization of using both scenes and layers,
instead of multiple copies of the same components just shown in
different scenes.

FWIW, another tool that is very helpful for accomplishing these types of
tasks is the "Hide", which can be used to great effect with "Scenes" to
hide elements you don't want to show in that scene.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

> Do you know of tutorials that show how to use Sketchup scenes and layers
> to show the details I need? =A0That would be very helpful.
>
> Marty
>

Hello... Maybe I am just an experienced CAD user but I opened the
scene tool and saw instantly how it works.

Turn off all parts except part #1
Create a scene that has the camera angle you want of part #1
Create annotations on a layer named part #1
Use the scene controls to capture what parts and layers are turned on.

Now do the same for part #2, etc., etc.

So each scene has a viewpoint and only the appropriate things turned
on or off.

This does not do explosions unfortunately. Cheapest CAD program I know
that does OK explosions is a few thousand dollars.

On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 21:53:56 -0700, "Lobby Dosser"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 13:47:32 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Here are the two links with the spaces missing in the file names:
>>>
>>>http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinets-Ver1b.zip
>>>
>>>http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinet-Carcase&
>>>BaseStyle-AsBuilt.zip
>>>
>>>Apparently "%20" is no longer automagic with either Mozilla product?
>>
>> I learned over a decade ago to avoid -any- spaces in filenames.
>> WordCapitalizationMakesItReadableByTheLessAware.txt
>
>Hungarian something or other, Prolly the same twisted bastid that gave us
>RPN.

Poles got numbers? Sheesh, next they'll be inverting electricity and
sending it Down Under.

--
Some people are like Slinkies ... not really good for
anything, but you can't help smiling when you see one
tumble down the stairs.

On Sep 18, 9:45=A0am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 9/17/2010 8:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 13:47:32 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> =A0wrote:
>
> >> Here are the two links with the spaces missing in the file names:
>
> >>http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinets-Ver1b.zip
>
> >>http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinet-Carcase&=A0BaseStyle-AsBui=
lt.zip
>
> >> Apparently "%20" is no longer automagic with either Mozilla product?
>
> > I learned over a decade ago to avoid -any- spaces in filenames.
> > WordCapitalizationMakesItReadableByTheLessAware.txt
>
> And waaaay over a decade ago you were basically limited to an 8.3 file
> name in DOS.
>
> Windows users came out of that dark age circa Win 95.
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 4/15/2010
> KarlC@ (the obvious)

sheesh 32 for us guys since 1984

On Sep 15, 4:04=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 9/15/2010 2:06 PM, Marty wrote:
>
>
>
> > I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several
> > projects and am generally very happy with it.
>
> > I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and even
> > at times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a
> > woodworking project.
>
> The more proficient you become, the quicker it goes ..
>

The people who bought my countertop business are doing all their
proposals and quotes with SketchUp. They are vey happy with the
freebie and learned quickly to sketch and dimension countertop
layouts.
Just playing with it at their office, I found that it has come a long
way since the days I found it to be merely a toy. It's all growed ups
now. =3Do)
And my goodness, the quantity of support libraries and aps is just
astounding.
It still looks like shit, though....g,d & r.

Here are the two links with the spaces missing in the file names:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinets-Ver1b.zip

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinet-Carcase& BaseStyle-AsBuilt.zip

Apparently "%20" is no longer automagic with either Mozilla product?

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Thanks for your helpful comments see my additional
comments and questions below.

Marty

On 9/15/2010 4:04 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 9/15/2010 2:06 PM, Marty wrote:
>>
>> I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several
>> projects and am generally very happy with it.
>>
>> I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and even
>> at times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a
>> woodworking project.
>
> The more proficient you become, the quicker it goes ..
>
> > In several instances multiple files needed to be
>> created for a project.
>
> Designing numerous complete kitchens with SketchUp, I've never found
> that a necessity.
>
> Although in a file that includes numerous parts like a kitchen with 25
> cabinets (each cabinet an individual component, made of all the
> individual cabinet components) and a complicated island, I will often
> "copy" and "paste in place" the island to an untitled file to work on it
> temporarily ... but, with proper use of "scenes" and "layers", this is
> not even remotely necessary ... just me being in a hurry and not wanting
> to inadvertently take the chance of moving one of hundred components
> that I may have forgotten to "lock" down.

So how do you show details of components such as mortise/tenon joints,
location of dado, rabbits and dimensions of each etc on the components
that have them? Sure the cut list will show the overall dimension of a
component but not these details. When you go into the shop to build
these cabinets how do you know how to cut all of the details needed to
build them?

For example I just finished a kitchen island for our house (34" x 60")
with 6 doors, 3 drawers, face frames, storage for books, shelving under
the drawers, swing up mixer shelf with a drawer below it. I ended up
with about 10 pages (legal size paper) showing all of the details I
needed to build each component. I used a 2D CAD program to do this and
can't imagine doing this with a single Sketchup drawing.
>
>> My comments are about the free version because, after looking
>> at what the "pro" version feature set is, it doesn't seem have features
>> that I would find useful. Besides which, I also don't have that kind of
>> money lying around.
>
> Until SketchUP8, there was really no functional difference in the
> drawing/modeling side between free and Pro, with the Pro version
> offering advanced printing and presentation, mostly using the included
> "Layout" module.
>
> Now the Pro version includes some solid modeling capability that is not
> included in the free version.
>
> Personally, I think this direction is big mistake by Google, who seems
> to be getting a bit big for their internet britches lately.
>
>> I bought a Dummies guide to Sketchup which helped a lot with the
>> mechanics of using the program, but much
>> of the book wrote about the pro version which did does not seem to help
>> with building a woodworking project directly from the Sketchup drawings.
>>
>> I have two projects on the drawing board now that require
>> two separate drawings for each, one showing the as built design and
>> another showing an exploded view (manually exploded since I can't find a
>> way for the program to explode a project) where I can add dimensions and
>> other notations that I can build from.
>
> SketchUp can indeed handle that easily, you just have yet become
> proficient enough with the program to do it. :)
>
> In a word: "Scenes" and "Layers" ... learn them!
>
> (Although I don't use it for exploded drawings (just explode them myself
> using "scenes and layers"), you may want to try the plugin
> ExplodeImplode from Smustard.com to see if it makes it easier for you).
May get this but have to think about $20 for this feature.

I have played with scenes and don't see how I can explode a drawing
using scenes with out affecting the other scenes.
As for layers I have used them in other CAD programs and again
don't see how I can explode a drawing, add a number annotations as
to how a project is built and do it with layer and/or scenes.

Do you know of tutorials that show how to use Sketchup scenes and layers
to show the details I need? That would be very helpful.

Marty

>
>> For example, these projects each have a face frame with multiple
>> components, each of which needs dimensions added, so the face frame
>> needs to be separated from the carcass. Then the carcass needs to "taken
>> apart" and details of the design (dado', rabbit' etc) annotated and add
>> dimensions. Then doors need to be exploded and design details and
>> dimensions added. I could go on but you get the idea.
>>
>> At the very least I wish the program had the ability to add pages to the
>> drawing so all of the design for a project would be in one file.
>
> Again, "Scenes" and "Layers" are what you want to learn how to wield.
>
> Once you become proficient with these, and with thought and commonsense
> application of these two features, you can do exactly the above.
>
> I could
>> then copy sub-assemblies (like doors, drawers, face frames etc) from one
>> page to another, take apart the sub-assembly and annotate as needed.
>> Also the ability to take apart a sub-assembly in a consistent manner
>> would be nice. Are you listening Sketchup program designers?
>
>> I have added a cut list plug-in that helps with the cut list, but it
>> is also requires some manipulation to get the results I need to buy
>> materials and machine the parts.
>>
>> Anyway that is my 2 cents worth. I will continue to use Sketchup as
>> it is fun to use (most of the time :-) ) I just wish it had more
>> features that us woodworkers need to build our projects.
>
> The program will actually do exactly what you want it to do with only
> one file, but, as noted above, you need to become familiar/proficient
> with the use of both "scenes" and "layers".
>
> Each of my individual kitchen design files often have 20 or more layers
> and dozens of scenes, all in the same file.
>
> AAMOF, I use layers to such a degree/advantage, that I have a "kitchen
> design template" with over 25 "layers" already in place.
>

On 9/17/2010 8:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 13:47:32 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Here are the two links with the spaces missing in the file names:
>>
>> http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinets-Ver1b.zip
>>
>> http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinet-Carcase& BaseStyle-AsBuilt.zip
>>
>> Apparently "%20" is no longer automagic with either Mozilla product?
>
> I learned over a decade ago to avoid -any- spaces in filenames.
> WordCapitalizationMakesItReadableByTheLessAware.txt

And waaaay over a decade ago you were basically limited to an 8.3 file
name in DOS.

Windows users came out of that dark age circa Win 95.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 9/15/2010 3:04 PM, Swingman wrote:
>

> CAVEAT: I closed it out using SketchUp8, so you will probably have to
> upgrade to 8 to open it ... something you will want to do as a SU usser in
> any event.
>
> If this version thing causes someone a big problem, post back here and I
> will save it in 7 and put it up on the site also.
>


Actually IIRC I saw that when you save in 8.0 you can choose any of the past
version formats to save the file in. You don't have to go back to Sketchup
7.0.

On 9/17/2010 9:53 PM, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
> What kills it is the spaces - terminates a line - and the ampersand.
>
> Unix servers would do exactly the same - not a accepted format.

The point was that for years typing a link into a browsers address bar
that contained spaces in a file name would add %20 in place of the spaces.

That convention has apparently gone by the wayside in the latest FireFox
version.

It still does it in IE8.

--
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KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 9/16/2010 11:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

> When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to buy
> each new version, too?

As a Pro version owner (or "renter", depending upon the EULA de jour)
the upgrade price for me from 7 to 8 was $95.00.

The original outlay for the Pro version is circa $495.00.

--
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Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 9/15/2010 4:04 PM, Leon wrote:
> "Swingman"<[email protected]> wrote in message


>> CAVEAT: I closed it out using SketchUp8, so you will probably have to
>> upgrade to 8 to open it ... something you will want to do as a SU usser in
>> any event.
>>
>> If this version thing causes someone a big problem, post back here and I
>> will save it in 7 and put it up on the site also.

> Actually IIRC I saw that when you save in 8.0 you can choose any of the past
> version formats to save the file in. You don't have to go back to Sketchup
> 7.0.

You can indeed "save as" a file in any past version from SketchUp 8. :)

AAMOF, uninstalled 7 when I installed 8 (left the material and
components folders because there are some nice ones with previous SU
versions that are no longer in version 8).

--
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KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Marty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks for your helpful comments see my additional
> comments and questions below.
>
Snip

>
> So how do you show details of components such as mortise/tenon joints,
> location of dado, rabbits and dimensions of each etc on the components
> that have them? Sure the cut list will show the overall dimension of a
> component but not these details. When you go into the shop to build these
> cabinets how do you know how to cut all of the details needed to build
> them?

Once you do this time and again, like anything else, you tend to do things
the same. This speeds up design AND production. Basically use a rule of
thumb that works for you. Tenons are sized X amount according to the
material size. For me I have made thousands of cabinets door joints that
are stub tenon. I "always" make the tenon the thickness of the panel that
the door will receive, 7/32", and I always make the tenon 1/2" deep.
Cutlist sees the tenon whether visible or not if you make the part into a
component and actually draw the tenon on the part. So basically a rail with
tenons that is visibly 10" long when assembled will be recognized as 11"
with the 1/2" tenons added to each end. Cutlist tells me to cut the rail
11". I know that the part is a rail and will need to have a 1/2" long tenon
cut into each end and I will need to cut a groove 1/2" deep and 7/32" wide
to receive the tenon and panel both the rails and stiles.

For the odd detail that is unique you may still need to copy that detail to
another area of the drawing and print that detail separately for reference.

Uniformity speeds the design and the execution.

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 9/17/2010 11:46 AM, Swingman wrote:
>
>> <http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Hutch Cabinet-Carcase & Base
>> Style-AsBuilt.zip>
>
> http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Hutch Cabinet-Carcase & Base
> Style-AsBuilt.zip
>
> Damn Thunderbird ... or dummy operator.

There is a space between Base and Style. That gets lost with the wrapping.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

What kills it is the spaces - terminates a line - and the ampersand.

Unix servers would do exactly the same - not a accepted format.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 9/17/2010 11:50 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 9/17/2010 11:46 AM, Swingman wrote:
>
>> <http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Hutch Cabinet-Carcase & Base
>> Style-AsBuilt.zip>
>
> http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Hutch Cabinet-Carcase & Base Style-AsBuilt.zip
>
> Damn Thunderbird ... or dummy operator.
>

On 9/16/2010 2:06 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:
> On 9/16/10 2:51 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:12:58 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/16/2010 11:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>
>>>> When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to buy
>>>> each new version, too?
>>>
>>> As a Pro version owner (or "renter", depending upon the EULA de jour)
>>> the upgrade price for me from 7 to 8 was $95.00.
>>>
>>> The original outlay for the Pro version is circa $495.00.
>>
>> OK, $500 to join and then roughly $100/yr for updates. Wow.
>>
> Can you say business write-off?
> See, I knew you could.
> :-)

:)

... cheap at ten times the price, and pays for itself multiple times
each and every project.

Money making software when wielded with a modicum of business sense and
without preconceived notions.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sep 16, 3:30=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 9/16/2010 2:06 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 9/16/10 2:51 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> >> On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:12:58 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>> On 9/16/2010 11:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> >>>> When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to bu=
y
> >>>> each new version, too?
>
> >>> As a Pro version owner (or "renter", depending upon the EULA de jour)
> >>> the upgrade price for me from 7 to 8 was $95.00.
>
> >>> The original outlay for the Pro version is circa $495.00.
>
> >> OK, $500 to join and then roughly $100/yr for updates. Wow.
>
> > Can you say business write-off?
> > See, I knew you could.
> > :-)
>
> :)
>
> ... cheap at ten times the price, and pays for itself multiple times
> each and every project.
>
> Money making software when wielded with a modicum of business sense and
> without preconceived notions.
>
The same for the purchase of a tool which will give you capability
others don't have. That allows you to create your own markets. The
whole thing about my investing in computers and software, as far back
as 1986, was to have the capability to show a customer what I was
about to build for them. Prior to that, I used to use Lawson charts
and draw things on a board by hand. Show and tell goes a long way.
Ultimately, there only two justifiable reasons to invest in equipment:
a) It makes you more efficient and there is a ROI which can be
projected.
b) The guy across the street, the one you're competing with, doesn't
have the capability you're about to invest in.

On 9/15/2010 3:04 PM, Swingman wrote:

> AAMOF, I use layers to such a degree/advantage, that I have a "kitchen
> design template" with over 25 "layers" already in place.

Instead of just talk/BS, here's "some show and tell" regarding the use
of layers (30 or so) and scenes (20+) with a complicated model with many
parts and dimensions:

http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Kitchen-Layers-Scenes-Example.zip

FWIW, this is an actual kitchen design model, used for the both the
clients input during the design stage, and for shop drawings for actual
build ... it is scheduled to start build/installation very shortly ...
it is not a drill. :)

(There is a color version, but I prefer the non-color for viewing)

CAVEAT: I closed it out using SketchUp8, so you will probably have to
upgrade to 8 to open it ... something you will want to do as a SU usser
in any event.

If this version thing causes someone a big problem, post back here and I
will save it in 7 and put it up on the site also.

Let me know here of any download problems.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Oct 2, 5:38=A0pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Oct 2, 5:32=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 10/2/2010 2:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
> > >> On 9/17/2010 1:47 PM, Swingman wrote:
> > >>>http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinet-Carcase&
> > >>> BaseStyle-AsBuilt.zip
> > >> And here's the finished product built from the Sketchup file:
>
> > >>http://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/HutchEndCabinets?authkey=3D=
Gv...
> > > great work. I love simplicity, straight lines, and sharp corners.
> > > The Shakers would be proud. :-)
>
> > Thanks, Mike ... yes, I'm a fan of simplicity myself. These are
> > simplicity in style, and in construction, and exactly what the client
> > wanted.
>
> > And since she had a hand in the design via SU, there will be no
> > surprises when I drive them up to Austin tomorrow. :)
>
> > --www.e-woodshop.net
> > Last update: 4/15/2010
> > KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
> Looks great Swing. SU earns its keep doing things this way, huh? Did I
> tell you that Vectorworks imports SU files?

That means I can cut fancypants wigglyboos on my cnc from SU.

> The program will actually do exactly what you want it to do with
only
> one file, but, as noted above, you need to become familiar/proficient
> with the use of both "scenes" and "layers".
>

Super cool info. I just dove in headlong to SU a few years back and
never looked for such typical tools. I just did modeling. Glad to hear
they are there.
Thx!

On Sep 16, 11:56=A0am, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sep 16, 11:36=A0am, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 15, 4:04=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > On 9/15/2010 2:06 PM, Marty wrote:
>
> > > > I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several
> > > > projects and am generally very happy with it.
>
> > > > I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and =
even
> > > > at times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build =
a
> > > > woodworking project.
>
> > > The more proficient you become, the quicker it goes ..
>
> > The people who bought my countertop business are doing all their
> > proposals and quotes with SketchUp. They are vey happy with the
> > freebie and learned quickly to sketch and dimension countertop
> > layouts.
> > Just playing with it at their office, I found that it has come a long
> > way since the days I found it to be merely a toy. It's all growed ups
> > now. =3Do)
> > And my goodness, the quantity of support libraries and aps is just
> > astounding.
>
> Oh, so I guess this is your drive-by "I guess I was wrong to trash SU
> when I hadn't used it since Moses was a pup" apology?
>
> Apology accepted.

It wasn't that long ago that the freebie still sucked canal water. I
only 'trashed' (too strong a word, really, yours not mine) those who
tried to pawn it off as full-blown CAD, which it wasn't and still
isn't. Those who have a modicum of CAD knowledge have agreed with me
on that.
My criticism of SU at the time was well founded and I have nothing to
apologize for. The fact that SU has evolved to this extent is
wonderful. It does not negate my previous complaints about previous
versions.

People who used to review Hyundai cars from days gone by are now
finding them quite good. That did not make them wrong back in those
days.



>
> > It still looks like shit, though....g,d & r.
>
> There's an app for that. =A0You can use plugins or other programs to
> tweak the SU model to make it photorealistic, though why someone would
> need to do that for a countertop layout, I have no idea. =A0I take
> pictures of a material and use the JPG as a material in SU. =A0You can't
> get more real than real.
>
> R

"Marty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several projects
> and am generally very happy with it.
>
> I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and even at
> times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a
> woodworking project. In several instances multiple files needed to be
> created for a project.

With anything worth learning it takes time, your mileage may vary. I came
from AutoCAD LT, thought it was easy to learn but learning Sketchup was damn
easy. It all depends on your drafting and CAD background. I have quite a
bit of experience with several CAD and CAD style programs, Sketch us
definately worth learning.



>
> My comments are about the free version because, after looking
> at what the "pro" version feature set is, it doesn't seem have features
> that I would find useful. Besides which, I also don't have that kind of
> money lying around.
>
> I bought a Dummies guide to Sketchup which helped a lot with the mechanics
> of using the program, but much
> of the book wrote about the pro version which did does not seem to help
> with building a woodworking project directly from the Sketchup drawings.
>
> I have two projects on the drawing board now that require
> two separate drawings for each, one showing the as built design and
> another showing an exploded view (manually exploded since I can't find a
> way for the program to explode a project) where I can add dimensions and
> other notations that I can build from.

If you properly make each part of the project into a component, exploding
takes little time. I typically can manually explode a 100 + part project in
a couple of minutes. Keep in mind that you do no have to dimension you
parts to understand their actual sizes. There are numerous plugins for
Sketchup that will determine the number of pieces and the sizes each needs
to be, I use Cutlist 4.0 as that plugin and that will give you what you
need to know. However I take it a step farther and use Cutlist 4.0 to creat
an import file for Cutlist Plus for determined cut lists and cost and sale
reports.
You need not explode a project for Cutlist 4.0 to do it's magic.




> For example, these projects each have a face frame with multiple
> components, each of which needs dimensions added, so the face frame needs
> to be separated from the carcass. Then the carcass needs to "taken apart"
> and details of the design (dado', rabbit' etc) annotated and add
> dimensions. Then doors need to be exploded and design details and
> dimensions added. I could go on but you get the idea.

See above


>
> At the very least I wish the program had the ability to add pages to the
> drawing so all of the design for a project would be in one file. I could
> then copy sub-assemblies (like doors, drawers, face frames etc) from one
> page to another, take apart the sub-assembly and annotate as needed. Also
> the ability to take apart a sub-assembly in a consistent manner would be
> nice. Are you listening Sketchup program designers?

You do not need seperate files, you simply need to copy what you want, to
another area of the drawing. You have an infinite drawing area with each
file.


>
> I have added a cut list plug-in that helps with the cut list, but it
> is also requires some manipulation to get the results I need to buy
> materials and machine the parts.

See above, what manipulations are you talking about?

It does help to give each component a material name to seperate components
make of different materials.

On 9/15/2010 3:07 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:

> I have worked in the CAD software business for 20 years at my real job
> and have expertise in and have worked for some of the biggest CAD
> companies in this industry. Sketchup is by far the best at what it
> does. However, it is not really production CAD and especially as it
> relates to making drawings. I can create models in many of the most
> expensive 3D modelers and I prefer to use Sketchup for my own home
> work. However, I also use AutoCAD to make all my 2D drawings. I re-
> draw every part, measured from the Sketchup drawing. I believe I could
> save directly to AutoCAD from Pro Sketchup but I just use free version
> and can likely draw 2D faster in AutoCAD than the copy process would
> take.

The Pro version indeed addresses these issues with "Layout".

However, I too have used various 2D CAD programs down through the years
(SU is not really "CAD" per se, it is 3D modeling software), and indeed
find the SU/Layout combination a bit more fussy when doing a full blown
set of _2D_ construction drawings ... although I have done just that as
recently as last year for a house I completed last year.

I think that is probably more of a lack of operator proficiency on my
part with Layout, as it is indeed another learning curve and I don't use
it on a daily basis.

All said and done however, SU has been more than worth that bit of fuss
for the _3D_ side of things.

... what you make on the banana's, you lose on the oranges. ;)


--
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Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Oct 2, 5:32=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 10/2/2010 2:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
> >> On 9/17/2010 1:47 PM, Swingman wrote:
> >>>http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinet-Carcase&
> >>> BaseStyle-AsBuilt.zip
> >> And here's the finished product built from the Sketchup file:
>
> >>http://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/HutchEndCabinets?authkey=3DGv=
...
> > great work. I love simplicity, straight lines, and sharp corners.
> > The Shakers would be proud. :-)
>
> Thanks, Mike ... yes, I'm a fan of simplicity myself. These are
> simplicity in style, and in construction, and exactly what the client
> wanted.
>
> And since she had a hand in the design via SU, there will be no
> surprises when I drive them up to Austin tomorrow. :)
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 4/15/2010
> KarlC@ (the obvious)

Looks great Swing. SU earns its keep doing things this way, huh? Did I
tell you that Vectorworks imports SU files?

On Sep 17, 5:40=A0am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> =A0So basically a rail with
> tenons that is visibly 10" long when assembled will be recognized as 11"
> with the 1/2" tenons added to each end. =A0Cutlist tells me to cut the ra=
il
> 11". =A0I know that the part is a rail and will need to have a 1/2" long =
tenon
> cut into each end and I will need to cut a groove 1/2" deep and 7/32" wid=
e
> to receive the tenon and panel both the rails and stiles.
>

Zactly. My drawer boxes are always an inch smaller than the cavity
assigned to them. Something you do on autopilot.
Rails are 1" longer. We do this, we know this.
To a newb, a lot of that can be really intimidating
>
> Uniformity speeds the design and the execution.

Zactly again. That is why, even when I design/build one-off small
cabinets, I stick to the 32 mm system. It's where I live. (That router
sure makes life a lot easier now too. It came with http://cabinetpartspro.c=
om/
and that's a joy to use.)

I highly recommend that one becomes, even if somewhat cursory,
familiar with the concept behind the 32 mm system. The Intarweb tubes
are full of info.

On Wed, 15 Sep 2010 15:29:10 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 9/15/2010 3:04 PM, Swingman wrote:
>
>> AAMOF, I use layers to such a degree/advantage, that I have a "kitchen
>> design template" with over 25 "layers" already in place.
>
>Instead of just talk/BS, here's "some show and tell" regarding the use
>of layers (30 or so) and scenes (20+) with a complicated model with many
>parts and dimensions:
>
>http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Kitchen-Layers-Scenes-Example.zip
>
>FWIW, this is an actual kitchen design model, used for the both the
>clients input during the design stage, and for shop drawings for actual
>build ... it is scheduled to start build/installation very shortly ...
>it is not a drill. :)
>
>(There is a color version, but I prefer the non-color for viewing)
>
>CAVEAT: I closed it out using SketchUp8, so you will probably have to
>upgrade to 8 to open it ... something you will want to do as a SU usser
>in any event.
>
>If this version thing causes someone a big problem, post back here and I
>will save it in 7 and put it up on the site also.
>
>Let me know here of any download problems.

When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to buy
each new version, too?

--
Not merely an absence of noise, Real Silence begins
when a reasonable being withdraws from the noise in
order to find peace and order in his inner sanctuary.
-- Peter Minard

On 9/18/2010 8:48 PM, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
> That is the UNIX code needed for a unix server.
> I'd enter a bug in Firefox and see if a response comes back to you.
>
> I get bug fixes and responses.

Good idea ... indeed, they have been responsive in the past.

Thanks!

--
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Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> a) It makes you more efficient and there is a ROI which can be projected.
> b) The guy across the street, the one you're competing with, doesn't have
> the capability you're about to invest in.

Yeah, but only one of those reasons has gloat factor automatically built in.
:)

"Marty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several projects
> and am generally very happy with it.
>
> I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and even at
> times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a
> woodworking project. In several instances multiple files needed to be
> created for a project.
>
> My comments are about the free version because, after looking
> at what the "pro" version feature set is, it doesn't seem have features
> that I would find useful. Besides which, I also don't have that kind of
> money lying around.
>
> I bought a Dummies guide to Sketchup which helped a lot with the mechanics
> of using the program, but much
> of the book wrote about the pro version which did does not seem to help
> with building a woodworking project directly from the Sketchup drawings.
>
> I have two projects on the drawing board now that require
> two separate drawings for each, one showing the as built design and
> another showing an exploded view (manually exploded since I can't find a
> way for the program to explode a project) where I can add dimensions and
> other notations that I can build from.
>
> For example, these projects each have a face frame with multiple
> components, each of which needs dimensions added, so the face frame needs
> to be separated from the carcass. Then the carcass needs to "taken apart"
> and details of the design (dado', rabbit' etc) annotated and add
> dimensions. Then doors need to be exploded and design details and
> dimensions added. I could go on but you get the idea.
>
> At the very least I wish the program had the ability to add pages to the
> drawing so all of the design for a project would be in one file. I could
> then copy sub-assemblies (like doors, drawers, face frames etc) from one
> page to another, take apart the sub-assembly and annotate as needed. Also
> the ability to take apart a sub-assembly in a consistent manner would be
> nice. Are you listening Sketchup program designers?


If you are really interested in the designers improving the product, may I
suggest posting your comment directly to Google, in addition to here.
Posting here gets real user information from people doing the same type of
projects, but I suspect Google rarely dives into Usenet groups.

There are numerous free tutorials available and, if you don't mind shelling
out the money, Popular Woodworking has a CD(DVD?) tutorial focused on
woodworking. Intro and advanced at $25 a disk. I've not seen them and have
no relationship to the company.

Link to Book:
http://www.woodworkersbookshop.com/product/woodworkers-guide-to-google-sketchup/

Link to Tutorials:
http://www.woodworkersbookshop.com/product/shop-class-on-demand-sketch-up-part-one-get-started-download/

You can download the tutorial.

Lobby Dosser wrote:
> "Marty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several
>> projects and am generally very happy with it.
>>
>> I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and
>> even at times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to
>> build a woodworking project. In several instances multiple files
>> needed to be created for a project.
>>
>> My comments are about the free version because, after looking
>> at what the "pro" version feature set is, it doesn't seem have features
>> that I would find useful. Besides which, I also don't have that kind
>> of money lying around.
>>
>> I bought a Dummies guide to Sketchup which helped a lot with the
>> mechanics of using the program, but much
>> of the book wrote about the pro version which did does not seem to help
>> with building a woodworking project directly from the Sketchup drawings.
>>
>> I have two projects on the drawing board now that require
>> two separate drawings for each, one showing the as built design and
>> another showing an exploded view (manually exploded since I can't find
>> a way for the program to explode a project) where I can add dimensions
>> and other notations that I can build from.
>>
>> For example, these projects each have a face frame with multiple
>> components, each of which needs dimensions added, so the face frame
>> needs to be separated from the carcass. Then the carcass needs to
>> "taken apart" and details of the design (dado', rabbit' etc) annotated
>> and add dimensions. Then doors need to be exploded and design details
>> and dimensions added. I could go on but you get the idea.
>>
>> At the very least I wish the program had the ability to add pages to
>> the drawing so all of the design for a project would be in one file. I
>> could then copy sub-assemblies (like doors, drawers, face frames etc)
>> from one page to another, take apart the sub-assembly and annotate as
>> needed. Also the ability to take apart a sub-assembly in a consistent
>> manner would be nice. Are you listening Sketchup program designers?
>
>
> If you are really interested in the designers improving the product, may
> I suggest posting your comment directly to Google, in addition to here.
> Posting here gets real user information from people doing the same type
> of projects, but I suspect Google rarely dives into Usenet groups.
>
> There are numerous free tutorials available and, if you don't mind
> shelling out the money, Popular Woodworking has a CD(DVD?) tutorial
> focused on woodworking. Intro and advanced at $25 a disk. I've not seen
> them and have no relationship to the company.
>
> Link to Book:
> http://www.woodworkersbookshop.com/product/woodworkers-guide-to-google-sketchup/
>
>
> Link to Tutorials:
> http://www.woodworkersbookshop.com/product/shop-class-on-demand-sketch-up-part-one-get-started-download/
>
>
> You can download the tutorial.
>


I tried learning from the tutorials, and I did. But there were numerous
subtle but very valuable details that I got from the book(s) that I
would probably have never picked up from watching the videos. Surely
having access to both resources is good. When you start counting the
number of hours which one can put into this, the cost of the media seems
to become less material. The only books I've used so far are the
"dummys" book and the "cookbook" book. I may get the woodworkers book
mentioned above. I didn't really enjoy reading the "dummys" book that
much--but I picked up some important details from it.

Bill

On 9/16/2010 11:56 AM, RicodJour wrote:
You can't
> get more real than real.
>
> R


Really? : )

On 9/16/10 2:51 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:12:58 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 9/16/2010 11:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>> When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to buy
>>> each new version, too?
>>
>> As a Pro version owner (or "renter", depending upon the EULA de jour)
>> the upgrade price for me from 7 to 8 was $95.00.
>>
>> The original outlay for the Pro version is circa $495.00.
>
> OK, $500 to join and then roughly $100/yr for updates. Wow.
>
Can you say business write-off?
See, I knew you could.
:-)
--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On 9/16/10 4:37 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Sep 16, 3:06 pm, FrozenNorth<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> On 9/16/10 2:51 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:> On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:12:58 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> On 9/16/2010 11:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>>>> When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to buy
>>>>> each new version, too?
>>
>>>> As a Pro version owner (or "renter", depending upon the EULA de jour)
>>>> the upgrade price for me from 7 to 8 was $95.00.
>>
>>>> The original outlay for the Pro version is circa $495.00.
>>
>>> OK, $500 to join and then roughly $100/yr for updates. Wow.
>>
>> Can you say business write-off?
>> See, I knew you could.
>> :-)
>
> The trick about those 'write-offs' is that you need to show a taxable
> profit first. *S*

I am sure Swing is making money, or he couldn't afford that Festering stuff.
:-)

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On 9/16/2010 11:56 AM, RicodJour wrote:
> On Sep 16, 11:36 am, Robatoy<[email protected]> wrote:

>> Just playing with it at their office, I found that it has come a long
>> way since the days I found it to be merely a toy. It's all growed ups
>> now. =o)

> Oh, so I guess this is your drive-by "I guess I was wrong to trash SU
> when I hadn't used it since Moses was a pup" apology?

No, this is his lame attempt at an excuse to justify his trashing
something he knew next to nothing about. Rotoboy was trashing sketchup
as a toy long after Swing, and millions of others were using it for
designing houses, kitchens etc, etc. Swing wasted a lot of time arguing
with the scum bag.

--
Jack
The Problem with Socialism is you eventually run out of Other Peoples Money!
http://jbstein.com

On 9/16/2010 12:16 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Sep 16, 11:56 am, RicodJour<[email protected]> wrote:

>>> Just playing with it at their office, I found that it has come a long
>>> way since the days I found it to be merely a toy. It's all growed ups
>>> now. =o)

>> Oh, so I guess this is your drive-by "I guess I was wrong to trash SU
>> when I hadn't used it since Moses was a pup" apology?
>>
>> Apology accepted.
>
> It wasn't that long ago that the freebie still sucked canal water.

Really? What version sucked canal water?

> I only 'trashed' (too strong a word, really, yours not mine) those who
> tried to pawn it off as full-blown CAD, which it wasn't and still
> isn't.

Not one person ever tried to pawn it off as a full-blown CAD program.
Every time someone, usually Swingman or Leon made you look stupid, you
would cry some nonsense about full blown CAD. Everyone tried to tell
you it was a great program for woodworkers to use in designing cabinetry
and woodwork in general. You insisted it was a toy. You were an idiot
then, and nothing, including Sketchups usefulness, has changed.

> Those who have a modicum of CAD knowledge have agreed with me
> on that.

Well, Swing must have told you a million times it was not a full blown
CAD program, but it was far from the toy you were pissing and moaning
about.

> My criticism of SU at the time was well founded and I have nothing to
> apologize for.The fact that SU has evolved to this extent is
> wonderful. It does not negate my previous complaints about previous
> versions.

Your complaints were both silly and bogus, apology notwithstanding!

--
Jack
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity!
http://jbstein.com

On 9/17/10 2:49 PM, Han wrote:
> Swingman<[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 9/17/2010 11:46 AM, Swingman wrote:
>>
>>> <http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Hutch Cabinet-Carcase& Base
>>> Style-AsBuilt.zip>
>>
>> http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/Hutch Cabinet-Carcase& Base
>> Style-AsBuilt.zip
>>
>> Damn Thunderbird ... or dummy operator.
>
> There is a space between Base and Style. That gets lost with the wrapping.
>
Yep, sub in a %20 for the space as Hutch%20Cabinet, it should then work.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 13:47:32 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>Here are the two links with the spaces missing in the file names:
>>
>>http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinets-Ver1b.zip
>>
>>http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinet-Carcase&
>>BaseStyle-AsBuilt.zip
>>
>>Apparently "%20" is no longer automagic with either Mozilla product?
>
> I learned over a decade ago to avoid -any- spaces in filenames.
> WordCapitalizationMakesItReadableByTheLessAware.txt

Hungarian something or other, Prolly the same twisted bastid that gave us
RPN.

On 9/17/2010 8:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 13:47:32 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Here are the two links with the spaces missing in the file names:
>>
>> http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinets-Ver1b.zip
>>
>> http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinet-Carcase& BaseStyle-AsBuilt.zip
>>
>> Apparently "%20" is no longer automagic with either Mozilla product?
>
> I learned over a decade ago to avoid -any- spaces in filenames.
> WordCapitalizationMakesItReadableByTheLessAware.txt

If you create a file and you want it to be easily accessible by as many people
in as many environments as possible, do the world a favor and leave out the
spaces. Just because you CAN use blanks doesn't mean you should.
CapitalizeEachWord or_use_underscores instead, and you'll never have a file
boomerang back at you from some person or program complaining that "I couldn't
open it!"

As a software developer of almost 30 years, I can tell you that there are
long-standing and well-entrenched programs and interfaces at almost every level
that just aren't designed to accommodate file names with embedded blanks. If I
could only have back all the untold hours I've spent trying to glue such
programs together with hacks and patches I'd have far fewer gray hairs.

--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 9/17/2010 8:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 13:47:32 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Here are the two links with the spaces missing in the file names:
>>>
>>> http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinets-Ver1b.zip
>>>
>>> http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinet-Carcase&
>>> BaseStyle-AsBuilt.zip
>>>
>>> Apparently "%20" is no longer automagic with either Mozilla product?
>>
>> I learned over a decade ago to avoid -any- spaces in filenames.
>> WordCapitalizationMakesItReadableByTheLessAware.txt
>
> If you create a file and you want it to be easily accessible by as many
> people in as many environments as possible, do the world a favor and leave
> out the spaces. Just because you CAN use blanks doesn't mean you should.
> CapitalizeEachWord or_use_underscores instead, and you'll never have a
> file boomerang back at you from some person or program complaining that "I
> couldn't open it!"
>
> As a software developer of almost 30 years, I can tell you that there are
> long-standing and well-entrenched programs and interfaces at almost every
> level that just aren't designed to accommodate file names with embedded
> blanks. If I could only have back all the untold hours I've spent trying
> to glue such programs together with hacks and patches I'd have far fewer
> gray hairs.
>

As a software developer of 45 years, I'll second that!

On 9/19/2010 10:12 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 9/19/2010 9:37 AM, Steve Turner wrote:
>
>> If you create a file and you want it to be easily accessible by as many
>> people in as many environments as possible, do the world a favor and
>> leave out the spaces. Just because you CAN use blanks doesn't mean you
>> should. CapitalizeEachWord or_use_underscores instead, and you'll never
>> have a file boomerang back at you from some person or program
>> complaining that "I couldn't open it!"
>>
>> As a software developer of almost 30 years, I can tell you that there
>> are long-standing and well-entrenched programs and interfaces at almost
>> every level that just aren't designed to accommodate file names with
>> embedded blanks. If I could only have back all the untold hours I've
>> spent trying to glue such programs together with hacks and patches I'd
>> have far fewer gray hairs.
>
> You're preaching to the choir, Bubba ...co-developed the very first _windows_
> FidoNet mail software (WinMail), and later ported it to tcp/ip protocols
> instead of modem to modem handshaking, in the early days of the internet ...
> I'm no noob when it comes to both software developmentand understanding of
> tcp/ip protocols and how they are handled by almost every type of software,
> both client and server.

Cool stuff. You say "co-developed"; was Al Gore involved?

> Once again, the problem was that, AS A CHECK FOR VALIDITY, I copied the url
> from the address bar of FireFox (where they were pasted to make sure they
> worked before putting then in an nntp message).
>
> It turns out that FireFox has suddenly broken the convention of using "%20" in
> file name spaces in their latest update, just hours before.
>
> My fault for not noticing that before posting ... mea culpa.

Hadn't noticed that. Shame on them.

> That said, I will do my personal file naming conventions as I damn well please
> and if anyone wants to take advantage of my largess when providing them for
> illustrative purposes, then they can damn well take them as they come when
> accepting, flies and all, or not ... their choice.

LOL! Well I did say if "you _want_ it to be easily accessible...". If you
don't _want_ it to, then that's fine by me. :-) Actually I'm jumping into this
conversation late without paying any attention to who said what, so my
apologies if you took it as an affront. I was just making a general
observation. :-)

--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

On 10/2/10 2:13 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 9/17/2010 1:47 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>
>> http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinet-Carcase&
>> BaseStyle-AsBuilt.zip
>
> And here's the finished product built from the Sketchup file:
>
> http://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/HutchEndCabinets?authkey=Gv1sRgCOGisIKLveDykgE#
>

great work. I love simplicity, straight lines, and sharp corners.
The Shakers would be proud. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

-MIKE- wrote:
> On 10/2/10 2:13 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 9/17/2010 1:47 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>
>>> http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinet-Carcase&
>>> BaseStyle-AsBuilt.zip
>>
>> And here's the finished product built from the Sketchup file:
>>
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/HutchEndCabinets?authkey=Gv1sRgCOGisIKLveDykgE#
>>
>>
>
> great work. I love simplicity, straight lines, and sharp corners.
> The Shakers would be proud. :-)
>
>

Yep, beautiful work...you could put those bases under anything and it
would look good!

Bill

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 9/15/2010 4:04 PM, Leon wrote:
>> "Swingman"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>
>>> CAVEAT: I closed it out using SketchUp8, so you will probably have to
>>> upgrade to 8 to open it ... something you will want to do as a SU usser
>>> in
>>> any event.
>>>
>>> If this version thing causes someone a big problem, post back here and I
>>> will save it in 7 and put it up on the site also.
>
>> Actually IIRC I saw that when you save in 8.0 you can choose any of the
>> past
>> version formats to save the file in. You don't have to go back to
>> Sketchup
>> 7.0.
>
> You can indeed "save as" a file in any past version from SketchUp 8. :)
>
> AAMOF, uninstalled 7 when I installed 8 (left the material and components
> folders because there are some nice ones with previous SU versions that
> are no longer in version 8).


I have not pulled 7 yet but used Opus to syncronize the folders under 7 to
those in 8. ;~)

On 10/2/2010 2:19 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

>> On 9/17/2010 1:47 PM, Swingman wrote:

>>> http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinet-Carcase&
>>> BaseStyle-AsBuilt.zip

>> And here's the finished product built from the Sketchup file:
>>
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/HutchEndCabinets?authkey=Gv1sRgCOGisIKLveDykgE#

> great work. I love simplicity, straight lines, and sharp corners.
> The Shakers would be proud. :-)

Thanks, Mike ... yes, I'm a fan of simplicity myself. These are
simplicity in style, and in construction, and exactly what the client
wanted.

And since she had a hand in the design via SU, there will be no
surprises when I drive them up to Austin tomorrow. :)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 21:53:56 -0700, "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 13:47:32 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Here are the two links with the spaces missing in the file names:
>>>
>>>http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinets-Ver1b.zip
>>>
>>>http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinet-Carcase&
>>>BaseStyle-AsBuilt.zip
>>>
>>>Apparently "%20" is no longer automagic with either Mozilla product?
>>
>> I learned over a decade ago to avoid -any- spaces in filenames.
>> WordCapitalizationMakesItReadableByTheLessAware.txt

A.K.A. CamelCase. I always use it in my (electronics) designs.

>Hungarian something or other, Prolly the same twisted bastid that gave us
>RPN.

Nothing wrong with RPN. "Algabraic" calculators are the pits. They all have a
different way of doing things.

Grrr if its not one thing its another....
am downloading V 8 so I can open the file.

WOW getting a wealth of info that is not available anywhere else.

Can't read the comments (all very good) to fast otherwise I might
miss something... :-)

Marty


On 9/17/2010 2:47 PM, Swingman wrote:
>
> Here are the two links with the spaces missing in the file names:
>
> http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinets-Ver1b.zip
>
> http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinet-Carcase& BaseStyle-AsBuilt.zip
>
> Apparently "%20" is no longer automagic with either Mozilla product?
>

On 9/19/2010 9:37 AM, Steve Turner wrote:

> If you create a file and you want it to be easily accessible by as many
> people in as many environments as possible, do the world a favor and
> leave out the spaces. Just because you CAN use blanks doesn't mean you
> should. CapitalizeEachWord or_use_underscores instead, and you'll never
> have a file boomerang back at you from some person or program
> complaining that "I couldn't open it!"
>
> As a software developer of almost 30 years, I can tell you that there
> are long-standing and well-entrenched programs and interfaces at almost
> every level that just aren't designed to accommodate file names with
> embedded blanks. If I could only have back all the untold hours I've
> spent trying to glue such programs together with hacks and patches I'd
> have far fewer gray hairs.

You're preaching to the choir, Bubba ...co-developed the very first
_windows_ FidoNet mail software (WinMail), and later ported it to tcp/ip
protocols instead of modem to modem handshaking, in the early days of
the internet ... I'm no noob when it comes to both software
developmentand understanding of tcp/ip protocols and how they are
handled by almost every type of software, both client and server.

Once again, the problem was that, AS A CHECK FOR VALIDITY, I copied the
url from the address bar of FireFox (where they were pasted to make sure
they worked before putting then in an nntp message).

It turns out that FireFox has suddenly broken the convention of using
"%20" in file name spaces in their latest update, just hours before.

My fault for not noticing that before posting ... mea culpa.

That said, I will do my personal file naming conventions as I damn well
please and if anyone wants to take advantage of my largess when
providing them for illustrative purposes, then they can damn well take
them as they come when accepting, flies and all, or not ... their choice.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Thu, 16 Sep 2010 12:12:58 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 9/16/2010 11:29 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> When you -buy- SketchUp, is it a one-time deal, or do you have to buy
>> each new version, too?
>
>As a Pro version owner (or "renter", depending upon the EULA de jour)
>the upgrade price for me from 7 to 8 was $95.00.
>
>The original outlay for the Pro version is circa $495.00.

OK, $500 to join and then roughly $100/yr for updates. Wow.

--
"A patriot must always be ready to defend his country
against his government." --Edward Abbey

On 9/16/2010 10:36 AM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Sep 15, 4:04 pm, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:


>> The more proficient you become, the quicker it goes ..

> It still looks like shit, though....g,d& r.

ROTFL ... agreed! ;)

Nice thing is that, if set up properly, SU does print much better than
it looks on most PC screens.

For any software it's hard to control all the graphic display subsytems
and screen resolutions it operates on.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 9/17/2010 1:47 PM, Swingman wrote:
>
> http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinet-Carcase& BaseStyle-AsBuilt.zip

And here's the finished product built from the Sketchup file:

http://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/HutchEndCabinets?authkey=Gv1sRgCOGisIKLveDykgE#

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 13:47:32 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Here are the two links with the spaces missing in the file names:
>
>http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinets-Ver1b.zip
>
>http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinet-Carcase& BaseStyle-AsBuilt.zip
>
>Apparently "%20" is no longer automagic with either Mozilla product?

I learned over a decade ago to avoid -any- spaces in filenames.
WordCapitalizationMakesItReadableByTheLessAware.txt

--
Some people are like Slinkies ... not really good for
anything, but you can't help smiling when you see one
tumble down the stairs.

On 9/20/2010 9:31 AM, Steve Turner wrote:
> On 9/19/2010 10:12 AM, Swingman wrote:

> Cool stuff. You say "co-developed"; was Al Gore involved?

Big Al still wouldn't know the back end of a database or GUI if _you_
bit him in the ass.


> LOL! Well I did say if "you _want_ it to be easily accessible...". If
> you don't _want_ it to, then that's fine by me. :-) Actually I'm jumping
> into this conversation late without paying any attention to who said
> what, so my apologies if you took it as an affront. I was just making a
> general observation. :-)

No affront .. just amazed how inadvertently hitting the space bar when
actually trying to help someone by loading/naming a couple of files on a
remote web server, and then trying to insure a valid url, can inspire
such eloquence around here. :D

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 18 Sep 2010 08:45:11 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 9/17/2010 8:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 13:47:32 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Here are the two links with the spaces missing in the file names:
>>>
>>> http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinets-Ver1b.zip
>>>
>>> http://www.e-woodshop.net/files/HutchCabinet-Carcase& BaseStyle-AsBuilt.zip
>>>
>>> Apparently "%20" is no longer automagic with either Mozilla product?
>>
>> I learned over a decade ago to avoid -any- spaces in filenames.
>> WordCapitalizationMakesItReadableByTheLessAware.txt
>
>And waaaay over a decade ago you were basically limited to an 8.3 file
>name in DOS.
>
>Windows users came out of that dark age circa Win 95.

And what do you know? Look, it's _still_ causing problems.
(spaces, not LFNs)

--
Some people are like Slinkies ... not really good for
anything, but you can't help smiling when you see one
tumble down the stairs.

"Marty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ya... I do the same thing.. for some reason I
> got anal and felt I needed to show this on all
> my drawings.....
> Thanks for bringing me back down to earth.
>
> I was working on a door and the light went on
> I've done this the same way before!!!


If you are going to turn the file over to a customer for review, formal, the
way Swingman does it is good. For your own personal use the spread it out
methods works providing it does not get too complicated.

Now I do draw the details! This way my import export program knows what
size the pieces need to be over all. But I know the details and don't
necessarily need to explode and blow them up for my own referencing.

That is the UNIX code needed for a unix server.
I'd enter a bug in Firefox and see if a response comes back to you.

I get bug fixes and responses.

Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 9/18/2010 8:39 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 9/17/2010 9:53 PM, Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
>> What kills it is the spaces - terminates a line - and the ampersand.
>>
>> Unix servers would do exactly the same - not a accepted format.
>
> The point was that for years typing a link into a browsers address bar that
> contained spaces in a file name would add %20 in place of the spaces.
>
> That convention has apparently gone by the wayside in the latest FireFox version.
>
> It still does it in IE8.
>

On 9/15/2010 2:06 PM, Marty wrote:
>
> I have been using Sketchup for a few months now to design several
> projects and am generally very happy with it.
>
> I say generally, because "out of the box" it is time consuming and even
> at times difficult to create the detailed drawings needed to build a
> woodworking project.

The more proficient you become, the quicker it goes ..

> In several instances multiple files needed to be
> created for a project.

Designing numerous complete kitchens with SketchUp, I've never found
that a necessity.

Although in a file that includes numerous parts like a kitchen with 25
cabinets (each cabinet an individual component, made of all the
individual cabinet components) and a complicated island, I will often
"copy" and "paste in place" the island to an untitled file to work on it
temporarily ... but, with proper use of "scenes" and "layers", this is
not even remotely necessary ... just me being in a hurry and not wanting
to inadvertently take the chance of moving one of hundred components
that I may have forgotten to "lock" down.

> My comments are about the free version because, after looking
> at what the "pro" version feature set is, it doesn't seem have features
> that I would find useful. Besides which, I also don't have that kind of
> money lying around.

Until SketchUP8, there was really no functional difference in the
drawing/modeling side between free and Pro, with the Pro version
offering advanced printing and presentation, mostly using the included
"Layout" module.

Now the Pro version includes some solid modeling capability that is not
included in the free version.

Personally, I think this direction is big mistake by Google, who seems
to be getting a bit big for their internet britches lately.

> I bought a Dummies guide to Sketchup which helped a lot with the
> mechanics of using the program, but much
> of the book wrote about the pro version which did does not seem to help
> with building a woodworking project directly from the Sketchup drawings.
>
> I have two projects on the drawing board now that require
> two separate drawings for each, one showing the as built design and
> another showing an exploded view (manually exploded since I can't find a
> way for the program to explode a project) where I can add dimensions and
> other notations that I can build from.

SketchUp can indeed handle that easily, you just have yet become
proficient enough with the program to do it. :)

In a word: "Scenes" and "Layers" ... learn them!

(Although I don't use it for exploded drawings (just explode them myself
using "scenes and layers"), you may want to try the plugin
ExplodeImplode from Smustard.com to see if it makes it easier for you).

> For example, these projects each have a face frame with multiple
> components, each of which needs dimensions added, so the face frame
> needs to be separated from the carcass. Then the carcass needs to "taken
> apart" and details of the design (dado', rabbit' etc) annotated and add
> dimensions. Then doors need to be exploded and design details and
> dimensions added. I could go on but you get the idea.
>
> At the very least I wish the program had the ability to add pages to the
> drawing so all of the design for a project would be in one file.

Again, "Scenes" and "Layers" are what you want to learn how to wield.

Once you become proficient with these, and with thought and commonsense
application of these two features, you can do exactly the above.

I could
> then copy sub-assemblies (like doors, drawers, face frames etc) from one
> page to another, take apart the sub-assembly and annotate as needed.
> Also the ability to take apart a sub-assembly in a consistent manner
> would be nice. Are you listening Sketchup program designers?

> I have added a cut list plug-in that helps with the cut list, but it
> is also requires some manipulation to get the results I need to buy
> materials and machine the parts.
>
> Anyway that is my 2 cents worth. I will continue to use Sketchup as
> it is fun to use (most of the time :-) ) I just wish it had more
> features that us woodworkers need to build our projects.

The program will actually do exactly what you want it to do with only
one file, but, as noted above, you need to become familiar/proficient
with the use of both "scenes" and "layers".

Each of my individual kitchen design files often have 20 or more layers
and dozens of scenes, all in the same file.

AAMOF, I use layers to such a degree/advantage, that I have a "kitchen
design template" with over 25 "layers" already in place.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

Ya... I do the same thing.. for some reason I
got anal and felt I needed to show this on all
my drawings.....
Thanks for bringing me back down to earth.

I was working on a door and the light went on
I've done this the same way before!!!

Marty

On 9/17/2010 5:40 AM, Leon wrote:
> "Marty"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Thanks for your helpful comments see my additional
>> comments and questions below.
>>
> Snip
>
>>
>> So how do you show details of components such as mortise/tenon joints,
>> location of dado, rabbits and dimensions of each etc on the components
>> that have them? Sure the cut list will show the overall dimension of a
>> component but not these details. When you go into the shop to build these
>> cabinets how do you know how to cut all of the details needed to build
>> them?
>
> Once you do this time and again, like anything else, you tend to do things
> the same. This speeds up design AND production. Basically use a rule of
> thumb that works for you. Tenons are sized X amount according to the
> material size. For me I have made thousands of cabinets door joints that
> are stub tenon. I "always" make the tenon the thickness of the panel that
> the door will receive, 7/32", and I always make the tenon 1/2" deep.
> Cutlist sees the tenon whether visible or not if you make the part into a
> component and actually draw the tenon on the part. So basically a rail with
> tenons that is visibly 10" long when assembled will be recognized as 11"
> with the 1/2" tenons added to each end. Cutlist tells me to cut the rail
> 11". I know that the part is a rail and will need to have a 1/2" long tenon
> cut into each end and I will need to cut a groove 1/2" deep and 7/32" wide
> to receive the tenon and panel both the rails and stiles.
>
> For the odd detail that is unique you may still need to copy that detail to
> another area of the drawing and print that detail separately for reference.
>
> Uniformity speeds the design and the execution.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>