I'm interested in wood stabilizing where they use a liquid acrylic or other
resin under pressure to impregnate wood, I saw some very dense hardwood
that had been treated with stain and resin, I'm interested in the process
used, pressure or vacuum, resin, color, The wood I saw was small pieces
for use as knife handles and was
wandering whether they treat larger pieces of wood for other projects.
Here is a link to the one of many sites offering this product and
service. but not much information on the process.
http://www.stabilizedwood.com/main.shtml I have no connection to
this site just posting to show the process I'm talking about, any
information would be great, Thanks, Ben
"Steve Knight" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> it's not just the vacuum pump it is high pressure too. but it is also the
very
> nasty chemicals it takes. not something a home user really should be
doing. some
> woods the stuff will not penetrate in any real thickness either.
Hi Steve,
respect to you and the magnificent work you do, but could you elaborate?
This method has worked for me. On release of the vacuum, the vacuum created
in the wood naturally sucks the resin in. How deep the resin goes depends on
a number of circumstances and yes, wood type is one of them, obviously the
denser, and oily woods have more resistance. Also a factor can be surface
tension, resin viscosity and amount of vacuum. I agree that some woods won't
get a great penetration, but that can be controlled by further thinning of
the resins and pre wetting the wood to break surface tension.
As to Nasty Chemicals? You mean Epoxies? Compared to polyesters which are
what most 2 part wood fillers are, Epoxies are relatively safe and don't
give off poisonous fumes like styrene in the same way that the 2 part wood
fillers, that most people here have probably used, do. Epoxies are available
to and regularly used by the home shop worker. I work with resins in
manufacturing and I would class Epoxies very low down on the scale of "nasty
chemicals" in resins. Methacrylates, polyurethanes and polyesters being
considerably higher up.
On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:35:34 +0100, "Simon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Most of the degassing equipment I use has a vacuum pump with a displacement
>of 9CMH.
>Here's a link to a company that supplies them reconditioned
>http://www.island-scientific.co.uk/522.html
>a build your own is possible but the chamber has to be reasonably strong to
>cope with that kind of vacuum and the pump has to be able to operate with a
>negative pressure, most freezer compressors would cut out under pressure.
>
it's not just the vacuum pump it is high pressure too. but it is also the very
nasty chemicals it takes. not something a home user really should be doing. some
woods the stuff will not penetrate in any real thickness either.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
jo4hn wrote:
> [snip]
>
> We've got a new gov today, my friend.
> What do we do now?
Try to recall the President? I hear Sylvester Stallone wants a shot at it.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
"Mac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi, Thanks for the information, very helpful, would you happen to know
what
> sort of vacuum or pressure would be used?? Thanks, Ben
Hi Ben,
Most of the degassing equipment I use has a vacuum pump with a displacement
of 9CMH.
Here's a link to a company that supplies them reconditioned
http://www.island-scientific.co.uk/522.html
a build your own is possible but the chamber has to be reasonably strong to
cope with that kind of vacuum and the pump has to be able to operate with a
negative pressure, most freezer compressors would cut out under pressure.
On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:37:14 +0100, "Simon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>respect to you and the magnificent work you do, but could you elaborate?
>This method has worked for me. On release of the vacuum, the vacuum created
>in the wood naturally sucks the resin in. How deep the resin goes depends on
>a number of circumstances and yes, wood type is one of them, obviously the
>denser, and oily woods have more resistance. Also a factor can be surface
>tension, resin viscosity and amount of vacuum. I agree that some woods won't
>get a great penetration, but that can be controlled by further thinning of
>the resins and pre wetting the wood to break surface tension.
I used to do it with water thin poly. cocobolo and other dense woods I think
had any penetration. woods like oak had a lot of penetration. maple looked
terrible.
but the poly really did not do anything.
I am not sure what the pro's use but I had talked to the lumber lady about it
and it is not nice stuff.
a temp curing epoxy may work where you have to heat the wood for the cure to
happen.
but you also need pressure after the vacuum. I am not sure how many PSI you
need though.
but when it is done right the wood is more like plastic then wood.
--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.
"Steve Knight" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> it's not just the vacuum pump it is high pressure too. but it is also the
very
> nasty chemicals it takes. not something a home user really should be
doing. some
> woods the stuff will not penetrate in any real thickness either.
Hi Steve,
respect to you and the magnificent work you do, but could you elaborate?
This method has worked for me. On release of the vacuum, the vacuum created
in the wood naturally sucks the resin in. How deep the resin goes depends on
a number of circumstances and yes, wood type is one of them, obviously the
denser, and oily woods have more resistance. Also a factor can be surface
tension, resin viscosity and amount of vacuum. I agree that some woods won't
get a great penetration, but that can be controlled by further thinning of
the resins and pre wetting the wood to break surface tension.
As to Nasty Chemicals? You mean Epoxies? Compared to polyesters which are
what most 2 part wood fillers are, Epoxies are relatively safe and don't
give off poisonous fumes like styrene in the same way that the 2 part wood
fillers, that most people here have probably used, do. Epoxies are available
to and regularly used by the home shop worker. I work with resins in
manufacturing and I would class Epoxies very low down on the scale of "nasty
chemicals" in resins. Methacrylates, polyurethanes and polyesters being
considerably higher up.
(original post went AWOL on my server so posted again)
cranky SOB, aren't you? I ask a simple question, and you vilify me for
it. Thanks!
and how about learning to spell? "wining"??? maybe "whining" is what you
were trying to say. I don't need YOU to tell me to have a great day. I
had one anyway. We've got a new gov today, my friend.
dave
Mac wrote:
> Because I didn't have any response to the first post is the reason for
> posting again, sorry if it offends those with nothing to contribute, perhaps
> if you checked the link or checked some other site on the topic you might
> have had something to contribute to the group and just be a wee bit
> brighter, learn to use your time more constructive, and stop your wining.
> have a great day.
>
>
>
>>If you aren't affiliated, how is that you posted this twice in 5 days??
>>
>>dave
>>
>>Mac wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'm interested in wood stabilizing where they use a liquid acrylic or
>
> other
>
>>>resin under pressure to impregnate wood, I saw some very dense hardwood
>>>that had been treated with stain and resin, I'm interested in the
>
> process
>
>>>used, pressure or vacuum, resin, color, The wood I saw was small
>
> pieces
>
>>>for use as knife handles and was
>>>wandering whether they treat larger pieces of wood for other projects.
>>
>>[link deleted]
>>
>
>
>
Thanks for the information on this topic has been most helpful, but
seems to keep generating more questions, so here we go, is there a
manufacture that you would recommend for acrylic and epoxy resins, or are
they all of the same quality? As to the resin viscosity, how much can they
be thinned without loosing the quality of the product. When the wood is
stained with color I suppose it could be added to the resin or would it be
done in a separately and then treated with the resin?
"Simon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Steve Knight" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > it's not just the vacuum pump it is high pressure too. but it is also
the
> very
> > nasty chemicals it takes. not something a home user really should be
> doing. some
> > woods the stuff will not penetrate in any real thickness either.
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> respect to you and the magnificent work you do, but could you elaborate?
> This method has worked for me. On release of the vacuum, the vacuum
created
> in the wood naturally sucks the resin in. How deep the resin goes depends
on
> a number of circumstances and yes, wood type is one of them, obviously the
> denser, and oily woods have more resistance. Also a factor can be surface
> tension, resin viscosity and amount of vacuum. I agree that some woods
won't
> get a great penetration, but that can be controlled by further thinning of
> the resins and pre wetting the wood to break surface tension.
> As to Nasty Chemicals? You mean Epoxies? Compared to polyesters which are
> what most 2 part wood fillers are, Epoxies are relatively safe and don't
> give off poisonous fumes like styrene in the same way that the 2 part wood
> fillers, that most people here have probably used, do. Epoxies are
available
> to and regularly used by the home shop worker. I work with resins in
> manufacturing and I would class Epoxies very low down on the scale of
"nasty
> chemicals" in resins. Methacrylates, polyurethanes and polyesters being
> considerably higher up.
>
>
"Simon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Steve Knight" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > it's not just the vacuum pump it is high pressure too. but it is also
the
> very
> > nasty chemicals it takes. not something a home user really should be
> doing. some
> > woods the stuff will not penetrate in any real thickness either.
>
> Hi Steve,
>
> respect to you and the magnificent work you do, but could you elaborate?
> This method has worked for me. On release of the vacuum, the vacuum
created
> in the wood naturally sucks the resin in. How deep the resin goes depends
on
> a number of circumstances and yes, wood type is one of them, obviously the
> denser, and oily woods have more resistance. Also a factor can be surface
> tension, resin viscosity and amount of vacuum. I agree that some woods
won't
> get a great penetration, but that can be controlled by further thinning of
> the resins and pre wetting the wood to break surface tension.
> As to Nasty Chemicals? You mean Epoxies? Compared to polyesters which are
> what most 2 part wood fillers are, Epoxies are relatively safe and don't
> give off poisonous fumes like styrene in the same way that the 2 part wood
> fillers, that most people here have probably used, do. Epoxies are
available
> to and regularly used by the home shop worker. I work with resins in
> manufacturing and I would class Epoxies very low down on the scale of
"nasty
> chemicals" in resins. Methacrylates, polyurethanes and polyesters being
> considerably higher up.
>
>
Hi, Thanks for the information, very helpful, would you happen to know what
sort of vacuum or pressure would be used?? Thanks, Ben
"Simon" > > I'm interested in wood stabilizing where they use a liquid
acrylic or
> other
> > resin under pressure to impregnate wood, I saw some very dense hardwood
> > that had been treated with stain and resin, I'm interested in the
process
> > used, pressure or vacuum, resin, color, The wood I saw was small
pieces
> > for use as knife handles and was
> > wandering whether they treat larger pieces of wood for other projects.
> >
> > Here is a link to the one of many sites offering this product and
> > service. but not much information on the process.
> > http://www.stabilizedwood.com/main.shtml I have no connection to
> > this site just posting to show the process I'm talking about, any
> > information would be great, Thanks, Ben
>
> Hi Ben,
>
> Stabilising can be done with a number of things from hardeing oils to slow
> setting, clear epoxies (Generally, 2 part acrylics and polyurethanes have
> too short a potlife ). I use a vacuum chamber and epoxies. Luckily, most
of
> the places I freelance for have vacuum chambers for resin work and I do my
> wood pieces on the side. I make a small box out of perspex just big enough
> to fit my prepared pieces in, but about 3 or 4 times higher than the wood,
> just cover the wood with resin, pop it in the chamber and give it a vacuum
> untill all the bubbles begin to subside, this should suck a lot of gases
out
> of the wood, when you release the pressure, the wood wants to replace what
> it has lost and sucks in the resin. Make sure the resin you use has a low
> viscosity for deeper penetration, you can dilute it with alcohol or
acetone
> and prewetting the wood with a little alcohol or acetone can help reduce
the
> resistance of surface tension. When the chamber is back to normal air
> pressure, fish out the wood, wipe off the excess and leave to set on a
piece
> of waxed paper. Some Epoxies need a post cure in the oven. Once set,
finish
> and buff. For bigger pieces, I would stick with 1 part substances like
> hardeing, finishing oils, etc. as it will be reusable and catalyzed resins
> aren't (as well as the waste and cost of the resin on a larger piece).
>
>
"Mac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm interested in wood stabilizing where they use a liquid acrylic or
other
> resin under pressure to impregnate wood, I saw some very dense hardwood
> that had been treated with stain and resin, I'm interested in the process
> used, pressure or vacuum, resin, color, The wood I saw was small pieces
> for use as knife handles and was
> wandering whether they treat larger pieces of wood for other projects.
>
> Here is a link to the one of many sites offering this product and
> service. but not much information on the process.
> http://www.stabilizedwood.com/main.shtml I have no connection to
> this site just posting to show the process I'm talking about, any
> information would be great, Thanks, Ben
Hi Ben,
Stabilising can be done with a number of things from hardeing oils to slow
setting, clear epoxies (Generally, 2 part acrylics and polyurethanes have
too short a potlife ). I use a vacuum chamber and epoxies. Luckily, most of
the places I freelance for have vacuum chambers for resin work and I do my
wood pieces on the side. I make a small box out of perspex just big enough
to fit my prepared pieces in, but about 3 or 4 times higher than the wood,
just cover the wood with resin, pop it in the chamber and give it a vacuum
untill all the bubbles begin to subside, this should suck a lot of gases out
of the wood, when you release the pressure, the wood wants to replace what
it has lost and sucks in the resin. Make sure the resin you use has a low
viscosity for deeper penetration, you can dilute it with alcohol or acetone
and prewetting the wood with a little alcohol or acetone can help reduce the
resistance of surface tension. When the chamber is back to normal air
pressure, fish out the wood, wipe off the excess and leave to set on a piece
of waxed paper. Some Epoxies need a post cure in the oven. Once set, finish
and buff. For bigger pieces, I would stick with 1 part substances like
hardeing, finishing oils, etc. as it will be reusable and catalyzed resins
aren't (as well as the waste and cost of the resin on a larger piece).
On 08 Oct 2003, Bay Area Dave bitched:
> cranky SOB, aren't you? I ask a simple question, and you vilify me for
> it. Thanks!
>
> and how about learning to spell? "wining"??? maybe "whining" is what
> you were trying to say.
Glad to see that your 'friend' has finally arrived, Dave.
Before you start correcting other folks' spelling, you might work on
your own capitalization and punctuation - for example, the plural of 'pro'
is 'pros,' not 'pro's.' And unless she was a big fan of e.e. cummings, I'm
guessing your mom named you Dave, not dave.
As for crown molding, I always scarf and glue.
If you aren't affiliated, how is that you posted this twice in 5 days??
dave
Mac wrote:
> I'm interested in wood stabilizing where they use a liquid acrylic or other
> resin under pressure to impregnate wood, I saw some very dense hardwood
> that had been treated with stain and resin, I'm interested in the process
> used, pressure or vacuum, resin, color, The wood I saw was small pieces
> for use as knife handles and was
> wandering whether they treat larger pieces of wood for other projects.
[link deleted]
In article <[email protected]>, Bay Area
Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
> you still haven't answer my question from the other day. So, by your
> reasoning it's ok to ask AGAIN!!!!!!
>
> Why are you posting as "T"?
Huh. *I* saw his answer to that question.
djb
--
There are no socks in my email address.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
Tue, Oct 7, 2003, 3:21pm (EDT+4) [email protected] (Bay=A0Area=A0Dave)
asks:
If you aren't affiliated, how is that you posted this twice in 5 days??
I haven't checked, but it's possible he didn't get a response the
first time. I've seen people post the same question half an hour after
the first time, so I don't figure a 5 day span bad.
JOAT
There must be a hundred silver dollars in here. I can't handle that sort
o' money, you've gotta be in the league of lawyers to steal that much.
- J. H. "Flannelfoot" Boggis
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 6 Oct 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
On 07 Oct 2003, T. spake unto rec.woodworking:
> Tue, Oct 7, 2003, 3:21pm (EDT+4) [email protected] (Bay Area Dave)
> asks:
> If you aren't affiliated, how is that you posted this twice in 5 days??
>
> I haven't checked, but it's possible he didn't get a response the
> first time. I've seen people post the same question half an hour after
> the first time, so I don't figure a 5 day span bad.
Dave's a bit touchy... he's a couple of days late this month.
you still haven't answer my question from the other day. So, by your
reasoning it's ok to ask AGAIN!!!!!!
Why are you posting as "T"?
dave
T. wrote:
> Tue, Oct 7, 2003, 3:21pm (EDT+4) [email protected] (Bay Area Dave)
> asks:
> If you aren't affiliated, how is that you posted this twice in 5 days??
>
> I haven't checked, but it's possible he didn't get a response the
> first time. I've seen people post the same question half an hour after
> the first time, so I don't figure a 5 day span bad.
>
> JOAT
> There must be a hundred silver dollars in here. I can't handle that sort
> o' money, you've gotta be in the league of lawyers to steal that much.
> - J. H. "Flannelfoot" Boggis
>
> Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
> Web Page Update 6 Oct 2003.
> Some tunes I like.
> http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
>
In article <[email protected]>, Bay Area
Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
> I wish I knew where on earth you answered the question. Dave says he
> saw it. I can't go searching all through the messages...
Neither can I, but you *could* try rubbing two clues together and
figger it out yourself...
djb
--
There are no socks in my email address.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
Wed, Oct 8, 2003, 7:25am (EDT+4) [email protected] (Bay=A0Area=A0Dave)
asks AGAIN!!!!!!:
you still haven't answer my question from the other day. So, by your
reasoning it's ok to ask AGAIN!!!!!!
Why are you posting as "T"?
Dave, Dave Dave. You are really going to have to start taking the
meds the doctor prescribed. More than one exclamation mark is a certain
sign of a disturbed mind. That was not by my reasoning, by the way, I
just stated what I had seen before.
Check Dave=A0Balderstone's post for your answer.
Hmm, you haven't killed the real B.A.D. and are really one of the
trolls, trying to assume his identiy, are you? I know a troll is trying
to do that with BRuce, but I think the real BRuce is still alive.
JOAT
There must be a hundred silver dollars in here. I can't handle that sort
o' money, you've gotta be in the league of lawyers to steal that much.
- J. H. "Flannelfoot" Boggis
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 6 Oct 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
I have the repeat rate set very fast on my keyboard. If I want a couple
of exclamations and get 5 or 10 I just leave 'em there.
I wish I knew where on earth you answered the question. Dave says he
saw it. I can't go searching all through the messages...
dave
T. wrote:
> Wed, Oct 8, 2003, 7:25am (EDT+4) [email protected] (Bay Area Dave)
> asks AGAIN!!!!!!:
> you still haven't answer my question from the other day. So, by your
> reasoning it's ok to ask AGAIN!!!!!!
> Why are you posting as "T"?
>
> Dave, Dave Dave. You are really going to have to start taking the
> meds the doctor prescribed. More than one exclamation mark is a certain
> sign of a disturbed mind. That was not by my reasoning, by the way, I
> just stated what I had seen before.
>
> Check Dave Balderstone's post for your answer.
>
> Hmm, you haven't killed the real B.A.D. and are really one of the
> trolls, trying to assume his identiy, are you? I know a troll is trying
> to do that with BRuce, but I think the real BRuce is still alive.
>
> JOAT
> There must be a hundred silver dollars in here. I can't handle that sort
> o' money, you've gotta be in the league of lawyers to steal that much.
> - J. H. "Flannelfoot" Boggis
>
> Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
> Web Page Update 6 Oct 2003.
> Some tunes I like.
> http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
>
On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:47:18 GMT, "Mac" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Here is a link to the one of many sites offering this product and
>service. but not much information on the process.
>http://www.stabilizedwood.com/main.shtml I have no connection to
>this site just posting to show the process I'm talking about, any
>information would be great, Thanks, Ben
Also have a look at this page from their site - beautiful!
http://www.stabilizedwood.com/scan.html
I particularly like the gold-effect process. I am hoping to build a
side table for our entrance hall (which is painted orange), so getting
the top done with this treatment would be nice (I think orange and
gold go together well). I'm off to find out if someone in the UK can
do this ... but if anyone can put me out of my google misery in the
meantime ...
Cheers, Rob.
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> jo4hn wrote:
>
> > [snip]
> >
> > We've got a new gov today, my friend.
>
> > What do we do now?
>
> Try to recall the President? I hear Sylvester Stallone wants a shot at
it.
>
I say vote for the REAL brains behind "Bedtime for Bonzo". This time, give
the Chimp a go! .......
Ohhh ..... I forgot ...... Dub's already in the White House. ;-)
Because I didn't have any response to the first post is the reason for
posting again, sorry if it offends those with nothing to contribute, perhaps
if you checked the link or checked some other site on the topic you might
have had something to contribute to the group and just be a wee bit
brighter, learn to use your time more constructive, and stop your wining.
have a great day.
> If you aren't affiliated, how is that you posted this twice in 5 days??
>
> dave
>
> Mac wrote:
>
> > I'm interested in wood stabilizing where they use a liquid acrylic or
other
> > resin under pressure to impregnate wood, I saw some very dense hardwood
> > that had been treated with stain and resin, I'm interested in the
process
> > used, pressure or vacuum, resin, color, The wood I saw was small
pieces
> > for use as knife handles and was
> > wandering whether they treat larger pieces of wood for other projects.
>
> [link deleted]
>
"Mac" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks for the information on this topic has been most helpful, but
> seems to keep generating more questions, so here we go, is there a
> manufacture that you would recommend for acrylic and epoxy resins, or are
> they all of the same quality? As to the resin viscosity, how much can
they
> be thinned without loosing the quality of the product. When the wood is
> stained with color I suppose it could be added to the resin or would it be
> done in a separately and then treated with the resin?
I only know UK suppliers and perhaps 1 or 2 US suppliers. Acrylic would be
too fast, I think. and unthickened epoxy has a very low viscosity. I'd try
it unthinned on a test piece first and if it doesn't get good enough
penetration then dilute it 1:4 acetone to resin and pre wet the surface of
the wood with a wipe over with acetone (use chemically resistant gloves with
acetone, it's viscosity is so low that it goes right through latex like it
isn't there right through the pores in your skin, enters the blood stream
and attacks the liver. it's also highly flammable so be aware) a good
starting place and a commonly available epoxy is West System, it's as good a
starting place as any. Stain can be in the resin or stained prior, either
way. Testing is the way.
1 part polyurethanes would also work quite well, Bonda G4 clear comes to
mind
this is a company in Houston Tx. that do a clear 2 part polyurethane with a
30 minute potlife, plenty long enough working time for vacuuming.
Resins are definitely not all the same quality, there are 100s of epoxies,
alone, out there with different qualities.