Harbor Freight Stepping up Their Game?

On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
>>>> on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
>>>> from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
>>>> Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>
>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
>>>> that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
>>>> in the bag.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>
>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>
>>
>> Love that guy!
>> I'm watching it, now.
>
>Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
>at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
>said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
>that a contractor would need.

Duh! It's not a contractor saw.

>Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
>home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
>to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.
>
>I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
>down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
>was happy.
>
>He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
>watching him a few times, I believe him.

So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

I always remember the source of the information when I am retrieving it. If=
it is written, I check out who wrote it and why. If it is a video, I look=
at production quality, fairness, and reality vs. practicality and then see=
if the site was sponsored.

Regardless of the media form, there is one huge truth, one complete constan=
t. And that is if no one reads it, watches it, or hears it, it is a failur=
e. So it has to be chock full or information or entertaining, or a little =
of both. But with everyone an expert these days, and everyone being able t=
o monetize their opinions, how do you get clicks? More importantly, how ca=
n one MAKE MONEY by getting clicks for their day's work?

"Well by skookum hunky dory doodly diddly, that bearing is tighter than a h=
andmaiden's quim in church, okay!" No doubt that type of expression is ente=
rtaining, but hardly lends itself to the validity of a review. Tiring afte=
r a while for me.

I only trust new tool reviews from someone that has used the tool. That fo=
r me means asking around the job sites, and a quick review here and there, =
and like you Leon, buying from someone that will take it back if I am unhap=
py.

Robert

On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
>>>>>> on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
>>>>>> from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
>>>>>> Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
>>>>>> that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
>>>>>> in the bag.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>>>
>>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Love that guy!
>>>> I'm watching it, now.
>>>
>>> Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
>>> at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
>>> said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
>>> that a contractor would need.
>>
>> Duh! It's not a contractor saw.
>
>Just priced like one...

A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!
>
>>> Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
>>> home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
>>> to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.
>>>
>>> I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
>>> down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
>>> was happy.
>>>
>>> He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
>>> watching him a few times, I believe him.
>>
>> So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.
>
>What might that be?

Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.

Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 3/7/2018 11:39 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/7/2018 9:33 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 3/7/18 7:40 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> sites set
>>>>>>>>>>>> on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough
>>>>>>>>>>>> to go
>>>>>>>>>>>> from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
>>>>>>>>>>>> means
>>>>>>>>>>>> that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag
>>>>>>>>>>>> rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the bag.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Love that guy!
>>>>>>>>>> I'm watching it, now.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I
>>>>>>>>> think. Not
>>>>>>>>> at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
>>>>>>>>> price) He
>>>>>>>>> said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
>>>>>>>>> abuse
>>>>>>>>> that a contractor would need.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Duh! It's not a contractor saw.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just priced like one...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home
>>>>>>>>> user. As a
>>>>>>>>> home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if
>>>>>>>>> I wanted
>>>>>>>>> to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
>>>>>>>>> down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to
>>>>>>>>> pass so I
>>>>>>>>> was happy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review,
>>>>>>>>> and after
>>>>>>>>> watching him a few times, I believe him.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What might that be?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.
>>>>>>
>>>>> By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
>>>>> looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?
>>>>
>>>> Someone who has nothing better to do with his life? Yeah, an nutter.
>>>>
>>>>> That's exactly what I think as well...
>>>>
>>>> ...but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Man, are you a judgmental, crotchety old fart. :-)
>>>
>>> The guy's has turned a hobby into a pretty decent part time job.
>>> As someone who's gotten regular direct deposits from Youtube for my
>>> content, I wish I had the followers and plays that he has.
>>>
>>> He's providing pretty entertaining and educational content and getting
>>> paid pretty well for it. You condescending and ignorantly ask if he
>>> has nothing better to do with his life?
>>>
>>> What would you prefer he do with his spare time? Watch TV all night?
>>> How much do you get paid for bitching about guys putting videos on
>>> YouTube?
>>>
>>>
>> But do you really want to go with the opinion of some one that obviously
>> does not have hands on experience with actual use? Or some one that
>> actually uses the tools and and have determined that his findings are
>> irrelevant? ;~) Just saying... ;~)
>
> Just saying what? You sound like an endless festering tool commercial.
> AVe said festering tools are well made, with a surprising couple of
> weaknesses, which he points out, yet you cry like a baby. You say he
> 'trashes everything'. I recall watching about 4 of his videos, He
> praised Hilti and Kitchen Aid, said lots of good things about a
> festering tool, and trashed a HF drill, yet you attack him because he
> pointed out a minor weakness or two in a festering tool.
>
> Will wonders never cease.
>

I did say that he was funny, haha. There is some value in that I guess.

DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 7:35:46 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/6/2018 5:42 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 6:18:38 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 3/6/2018 5:09 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 12:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/6/2018 9:14 AM, Jack wrote:
>>>
>>> ...snip...
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My opinion is both tools are overkill for me and no one on earth _needs_
>>>>>>> to spend $700 on a shop vac, and festools target market seems to be the
>>>>>>> dude rancher.
>>>
>>> ...snip...
>>>
>>>>>> How much do I use my tools? I have posted countless links to projects
>>>>>> that I have built in the past 20 years of participating on this news
>>>>>> group. 90% of those projects were for customers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hey dude, where's your ranch? ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Eggsactly!
>>>>
>>>> On another note, I noticed that Festool has, well on April 2, will be
>>>> coming out with a Granet NET sanding disk with intermediate pad.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tools/granat-net?utm_source=email&utm_medium=button&utm_campaign=sysnotes_mar2
>>>
>>> Ya know, you could do us (me!) a big favor and try a pack of the Diablo
>>> SandNet discs.
>>
>> Sure, send them down. ;~)
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> You've tried sand nets that you didn't like and you have found sanding disks
>>> that you do like, so you would be the perfect tester for the Diablo product.
>>
>> I think the big issue with me is that I sand narrow face frames and the
>> foam intermediate pad allows the net to compress over the face frame and
>> that adds more stress to the net. IIRC I had no issue when sanding wide
>> open flat spots but when the edge of the net went over an edge I had
>> problems.
>
> That's exactly why I want you to try the Diablo discs. I've done the *edges*
> of 3/4" stock, 2" face frames, etc. and never even came close to tearing a
> disc. I even rounded edges (purposely) on rough work, just to knock the sharp
> off.
>
> You know you are not supposed to stand on the sander while using it right? Let
> the tool do the work. ;-)
>
>>
>> The paper sand paper has more reinforcement backing from the sander pad.
>>
>>>
>>> I don't have enough experience to do a good comparison and might not even be
>>> able to put the choices through their paces correctly.
>>>
>>> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-5-in-180-Grit-SandNet-Disc-with-Free-Application-Pad-10-Pack-DND050180H10I/301439869
>>>
>>> Let us know how you like them. ;-)
>>>
>
>

I just might give it a try. It would be a favor to you. :-)

On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 6:18:38 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 3/6/2018 5:09 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 12:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 3/6/2018 9:14 AM, Jack wrote:

...snip...

> >>>
> >>> My opinion is both tools are overkill for me and no one on earth _needs_
> >>> to spend $700 on a shop vac, and festools target market seems to be the
> >>> dude rancher.

...snip...

> >> How much do I use my tools? I have posted countless links to projects
> >> that I have built in the past 20 years of participating on this news
> >> group. 90% of those projects were for customers.
> >
> > Hey dude, where's your ranch? ;-)
> >
>
>
>
> Eggsactly!
>
> On another note, I noticed that Festool has, well on April 2, will be
> coming out with a Granet NET sanding disk with intermediate pad.
>
> https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tools/granat-net?utm_source=email&utm_medium=button&utm_campaign=sysnotes_mar2

Ya know, you could do us (me!) a big favor and try a pack of the Diablo
SandNet discs.

You've tried sand nets that you didn't like and you have found sanding disks
that you do like, so you would be the perfect tester for the Diablo product.

I don't have enough experience to do a good comparison and might not even be
able to put the choices through their paces correctly.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-5-in-180-Grit-SandNet-Disc-with-Free-Application-Pad-10-Pack-DND050180H10I/301439869

Let us know how you like them. ;-)

[email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy Festool for
> almost all my needs. And yes, under those conditions I would take them
> out to a job site when needed. The only tool I wouldn't buy that they
> make is their drills. Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty
> (and recent brushless models) for me to buy something else.
>
> I have multiples of all the tools I use, and most are of different models
> from different manufacturers. Over the last 40 years of doing this as a
> contractor for myself I look for value, durability, and repeatability in
> use. NO manufacturer makes all their tools in all their models to that
> standard. I have had DeWalt tools that are garbage. Had DeWalt tools
> that are great. Bosch has a pretty good track record with me and their
> oscillating tool, the old American made circulars saws were great. PC
> was a good brand, never great, but they turned out some real crap and
> have now fallen off the radar. Makita? Depends on what you are buying. The list goes on.
>
> Festool, and probably Fein are the only commonly available tool that you
> can buy with complete confidence. For those that take care of their
> tools and rely on them to make their living, I think in most cases
> Festool is unmatched. Personally, I say all that bullshit about
> "contractor rated" or "full time use" and all the other marketing crap is
> just that. I watch some of the videos out there and always remember that
> 99% of the uploaders don't actually use their tools to make a living.
> They use the videos to supplement their income so it is important to say
> or do something that attracts attention to their videos for the almighty "click".
>
> I first saw the Festool track saw in use when visiting Swingman and Leon.
> Swing took out the saw and showed me the setup, cut a piece of plywood,
> and we talked about the strong points and weak points. For those of us
> that know Swing (bless his heart), he is blunt and proud of his opinions.
> He was enormously impressed with the track saw, and after seeing it in
> use and its ease of setup, I was too. The cuts would rival or exceed most
> table saws, and the blade should (literally) last for years.




Bless His Heart!

On 3/8/2018 10:24 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 3/7/18 10:39 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/7/2018 9:33 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 3/7/18 7:40 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
>>>>>>>>>>>> sites set
>>>>>>>>>>>> on the DeWalt DWS780.  But is the price difference to enough
>>>>>>>>>>>> to go
>>>>>>>>>>>> from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty
>>>>>>>>>>>> for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hercules?  Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
>>>>>>>>>>>> means
>>>>>>>>>>>> that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag
>>>>>>>>>>>> rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the bag.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Love that guy!
>>>>>>>>>> I'm watching it, now.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Me too.  He speaks my language too.  He likes Hilti tools I
>>>>>>>>> think.  Not
>>>>>>>>> at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
>>>>>>>>> price)  He
>>>>>>>>> said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
>>>>>>>>> abuse
>>>>>>>>> that a contractor would need.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Duh!  It's not a contractor saw.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just priced like one...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home
>>>>>>>>> user.  As a
>>>>>>>>> home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if
>>>>>>>>> I wanted
>>>>>>>>> to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
>>>>>>>>> down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath.  Seemed to
>>>>>>>>> pass so I
>>>>>>>>> was happy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review,
>>>>>>>>> and after
>>>>>>>>> watching him a few times, I believe him.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What might that be?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.
>>>>>>
>>>>> By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
>>>>> looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?
>>>>
>>>> Someone who has nothing better to do with his life?  Yeah, an nutter.
>>>>
>>>>> That's exactly what I think as well...
>>>>
>>>> ...but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Man, are you a judgmental, crotchety old fart.   :-)
>>>
>>> The guy's has turned a hobby into a pretty decent part time job.
>>> As someone who's gotten regular direct deposits from Youtube for my
>>> content, I wish I had the followers and plays that he has.
>>>
>>> He's providing pretty entertaining and educational content and
>>> getting paid pretty well for it.  You condescending and ignorantly
>>> ask if he has nothing better to do with his life?
>>>
>>> What would you prefer he do with his spare time?  Watch TV all night?
>>> How much do you get paid for bitching about guys putting videos on
>>> YouTube?
>>>
>>>
>> But do you really want to go with the opinion of some one that
>> obviously does not have hands on experience with actual use?  Or some
>> one that actually uses the tools and and have determined that his
>> findings are irrelevant?  ;~)    Just saying...  ;~)
>
> Both and neither.  I usually want to get my own hands on something
> before making a concrete judgment.
> But I also trust the words of people I know who have and do use tools
> the way I do on a regular basis, like you and Robert and Karl and other
> friends not in here.
> AND I trust what this guy has to say in the areas in which he obviously
> has a lot of experience and knowledge.  I don't know his entire
> background or how much he uses or has used the tools.  I can't see
> someone who doesn't have a lot of firsthand experience with these tool
> just deciding one day to start breaking them open and dissecting them.

Well, the more clicks he gets the more he gets paid.

>
> I take it with a grain of salt, but I also have gotten some very good
> info from his videos.


I totally understand that. He does have some interesting points of view
but many of the weak areas that he points to do not seem to matter. In
particular, the end cap of the track saw. Apparently the wrong kind of
plastic that could be broken. I suppose a better plastic would be
better if you are likely to take a hammer to that part or drop the saw.
But the plastic end cap is going to be the least of you worries if you
drop the saw on its end on a hard surface. It. like most any other
brand saw. will likely not cut true after that. The rubber hand grip on
the saw seems to be wrong too. If you spill a particular type of
solvent on it it will melt. Is that really a likely event and if it did
happen would it make the saw less functional?

I watched a video of him tearing apart a kitchen knife sharpener. His
was not a kind review of how the machine was constructed He seemed to
think the tiny internal fan was made out of the wrong plastic or
something like that. Does that matter if the fan cools the motor?
Irrelevant if the sharpener works for the few minutes you would use it
each day. My dad has a similar style sharpener. The issue with it that
I have is that it is too slooooooow. I did not watch enough of the
video to see if he actually gave a review of how it actually performed.

FWIW I think he, myself, and you could find something, that we feel
might be a problem, with most anything, But in long term use proves to
not be an issue. I believe a proven track record far outweighs any one
persons personal view.

Now if he offered a better design that would eliminate a known problem
he might be more interesting to me. But so far what he thinks to be
problems areas do not manifest to be problems, at least with the Festool
track saw.

On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 21:33:55 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 3/7/18 7:40 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
>>>>>>>>>> on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
>>>>>>>>>> from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
>>>>>>>>>> Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
>>>>>>>>>> that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
>>>>>>>>>> in the bag.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Love that guy!
>>>>>>>> I'm watching it, now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
>>>>>>> at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
>>>>>>> said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
>>>>>>> that a contractor would need.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duh! It's not a contractor saw.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just priced like one...
>>>>
>>>> A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
>>>>>>> home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
>>>>>>> to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
>>>>>>> down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
>>>>>>> was happy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
>>>>>>> watching him a few times, I believe him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.
>>>>>
>>>>> What might that be?
>>>>
>>>> Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.
>>>>
>>> By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
>>> looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?
>>
>> Someone who has nothing better to do with his life? Yeah, an nutter.
>>
>>> That's exactly what I think as well...
>>
>> ...but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.
>>
>
>Man, are you a judgmental, crotchety old fart. :-)

Ayup!

>The guy's has turned a hobby into a pretty decent part time job.
>As someone who's gotten regular direct deposits from Youtube for my
>content, I wish I had the followers and plays that he has.

I can sleep at night (well, not so much lately but...)

>He's providing pretty entertaining and educational content and getting
>paid pretty well for it. You condescending and ignorantly ask if he has
>nothing better to do with his life?

I believe I was talking about the dummies who are paying for his fun
by taking the bait.

>What would you prefer he do with his spare time? Watch TV all night?
>How much do you get paid for bitching about guys putting videos on
>YouTube?

He's fine. He understands his audience. I don't even blame Colbert.
;-)

On Fri, 9 Mar 2018 07:46:40 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 3/8/2018 9:09 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 09:05:49 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/7/2018 8:40 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
>>>>>>>>>>>> on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
>>>>>>>>>>>> from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
>>>>>>>>>>>> that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
>>>>>>>>>>>> in the bag.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Love that guy!
>>>>>>>>>> I'm watching it, now.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
>>>>>>>>> at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
>>>>>>>>> said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
>>>>>>>>> that a contractor would need.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Duh! It's not a contractor saw.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just priced like one...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
>>>>>>>>> home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
>>>>>>>>> to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
>>>>>>>>> down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
>>>>>>>>> was happy.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
>>>>>>>>> watching him a few times, I believe him.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What might that be?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.
>>>>>>
>>>>> By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
>>>>> looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?
>>>>
>>>> Someone who has nothing better to do with his life? Yeah, an nutter.
>>>>
>>>>> That's exactly what I think as well...
>>>>
>>>> ...but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.
>>>>
>>> So you know all this about him yet haven't clicked on his "bait"? You
>>> must know this guy, or are you just making crap up?
>>
>> As always, you talk a lot but are completely ignorant. Seems to be
>> your MO.
>>>
>>> BTW, bait for what? You insinuate he earns a living doing these
>>> video's? I'd be interested in your facts on this. I'm thinking most of
>>> these guys make next to nothing doing this stuff.
>>
>> I insinuate nothing. The *FACT* is that he gets paid for clicks. That
>> can't be denied. Well, I guess an idiot can deny anything.
>>
>Maroon!

Dumbshit!

On Thu, 8 Mar 2018 09:05:49 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 3/7/2018 8:40 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
>>>>>>>>>> on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
>>>>>>>>>> from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
>>>>>>>>>> Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
>>>>>>>>>> that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
>>>>>>>>>> in the bag.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Love that guy!
>>>>>>>> I'm watching it, now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
>>>>>>> at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
>>>>>>> said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
>>>>>>> that a contractor would need.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duh! It's not a contractor saw.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just priced like one...
>>>>
>>>> A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
>>>>>>> home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
>>>>>>> to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
>>>>>>> down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
>>>>>>> was happy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
>>>>>>> watching him a few times, I believe him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.
>>>>>
>>>>> What might that be?
>>>>
>>>> Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.
>>>>
>>> By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
>>> looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?
>>
>> Someone who has nothing better to do with his life? Yeah, an nutter.
>>
>>> That's exactly what I think as well...
>>
>> ...but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.
>>
>So you know all this about him yet haven't clicked on his "bait"? You
>must know this guy, or are you just making crap up?

As always, you talk a lot but are completely ignorant. Seems to be
your MO.
>
>BTW, bait for what? You insinuate he earns a living doing these
>video's? I'd be interested in your facts on this. I'm thinking most of
>these guys make next to nothing doing this stuff.

I insinuate nothing. The *FACT* is that he gets paid for clicks. That
can't be denied. Well, I guess an idiot can deny anything.

On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set on
> the DeWalt DWS780.  But is the price difference to enough to go from a 3
> year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the Hercules?  Will
> anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>
> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means that it
> will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than in the bag.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

Well, they couldn't possibly 'step down' their game, could they?

On 3/6/2018 8:24 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 3/5/2018 1:07 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
>>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
>>>>>> on the DeWalt DWS780.  But is the price difference to enough to go
>>>>>> from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
>>>>>> Hercules?  Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
>>>>>> that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
>>>>>> in the bag.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>>>
>>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Love that guy!
>>>> I'm watching it, now.
>>>
>>> Me too.  He speaks my language too.  He likes Hilti tools I think.
>>> Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
>>> price)  He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use
>>> and abuse that a contractor would need.
>>
>> And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..
>
> Pro's have also been using Harbor Freight junk, so what?

I don't know, so what. He said that the TS55 is not designed for
continuous use. He has no evidence that they will not work as well as
another brand with regard to function or longevity. And years of, in
the field use, has proven that.



>
> I'd bet you would be more likely to see the pros using HF than Festools.

Yeah, so what?



>
>>> Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.  As
>>> a home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I
>>> wanted to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.
>>>
>>> I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
>>> down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath.  Seemed to pass so I
>>> was happy.
>>>
>>> He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
>>> after watching him a few times, I believe him.
>>>
>>
>> This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes as
>> possible.  Click bate.
>
>

On 3/3/2018 11:18 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 3 Mar 2018 10:49:11 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set on
>> the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go from a 3
>> year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the Hercules? Will
>> anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>
> I liked the first sentence of this comment: "Harbor Freight's been
> sniffing too much cosmoline...."
>
>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means that
>> it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than in the bag.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>
> That's better than Bosch. Even with a vac, the users shirt gets more
> sawdust than the vac. So, how's the Kapex for dust? It's looking
> better and better.
>

The Kapex dust collection with the vac is probably better than the dust
collection of their track saws. You really don't notice any dust until
you have cut several boards. And then it is mostly the coarse stuff
that does not go far. I stay as free of dust on my clothing as I do
when using my Festool sanders, and those work extremely well.

I will have to say that I am very happy with the set up I got with the
Kapex as well as the Kapex. I knew that this purchase would be an
indulgence as it was hard to justify the price considering how much I
thought I would use it. More and more I am thinking that the dust
collection alone may very well justify the price over the Bosch Glide
that I was considering.

On a side note, I understand that if you use the bigger 36mm hose
instead of the more common 27mm hose dust collection works even better.
No bottle neck where the hose attaches to the saw. It fits over rather
than inside the saw manifold.

If you have an issue with dust you should check it out.

On 3/6/2018 8:32 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy Festool for almost all my needs. And yes, under those conditions I would take them out to a job site when needed. The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is their drills. Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent brushless models) for me to buy something else.

FWIW if it were not for the high risk of theft and a worker not
respecting some one else's tool I believe we would see a lot more
Festool out there in the trades.

Snip
>
> Festool, and probably Fein are the only commonly available tool that you can buy with complete confidence. For those that take care of their tools and rely on them to make their living, I think in most cases Festool is unmatched.

I am in the camp that believes that no one makes the best of everything.
But saying that and with several of my Festool brand tools being 10+
years old I agree that Festool probably comes closer to that utopia than
the majority. The Festool warranty used to be a factor for me but no
longer. I have not had to use their warranty so far. I certainly think
the Ridgid line of tools have the best in the industry warranty and
almost with with one of their drills 15 or so years ago. I ultimately
went with Makita, the Makita just felt better in my hand and was much
lighter weight that the Ridgid was back then.

Back to the Festool brand, Festool offers a 30 day money back guarantee,
no questions asked. That certainly is not exclusive to Festool but is
pretty much all the nudge I need to make the purchase. Because I have
yet to replace any of my Festools I am not so much concerned about it
holding up so much as to whether or not it will do what I expect.
Specifically, the last Festool sander that I bought I was not certain
that it was going to be helpful in eliminating the little circles you
often get. I in particular was having this issue when sanding cross
grain with RTS400 Festool sander. Yes sanding cross grain on face
frames happens when the rails and stiles meet. I do not often stain but
on this particular job the stain really brought out the circle issue.
Anyway I told the Woodcraft guys that was what I wanted to eliminate
with the new sander that Festool recently introduced. 30 minutes after
using that sander I knew it was a keeper.




Personally, I say all that bullshit about "contractor rated" or "full
time use" and all the other marketing crap is just that. I watch some
of the videos out there and always remember that 99% of the uploaders
don't actually use their tools to make a living. They use the videos to
supplement their income so it is important to say or do something that
attracts attention to their videos for the almighty "click".
>
> I first saw the Festool track saw in use when visiting Swingman and Leon. Swing took out the saw and showed me the setup, cut a piece of plywood, and we talked about the strong points and weak points. For those of us that know Swing (bless his heart), he is blunt and proud of his opinions. He was enormously impressed with the track saw, and after seeing it in use and its ease of setup, I was too. The cuts would rival or exceed most table saws, and the blade should (literally) last for years.


>
> Leon's opinions concur, and again, having seen the saw, the setup and the final product I think it is a winner. If I needed a track saw, I would get that one.
>
> So why don't I have all Festool? What is the place of Harbor Freight and other discount tools? Employees that don't take care of your tools as you do, employees that don't know how to use tools correctly, the very real possibility of job site theft, and for almost all the needs on a construction site there is no need for the kind of quality work that their tools are capable of doing.
>
> Comparing HF, or others to Festool has to be with a grain of salt. I only know of two other contractors that use Festool out in the field (and one loves those damn drills) and neither of them have ever had a failure. One is a cabinet installer that specialized in remodeling projects, so Festool's Kapex miter saw and his dust collector is his weapon of choice. He is one of the very few craftsmen I trust, and he tells me that the Kapex is as accurate now as it was 5 years ago when he bought it, used over countless jobs.

Good to know since mine was an indulgence purchase. And I have to say I
have used mine several times and it is great to know that the set up I
showed you is exactly what I wanted, in actual use and not just on
paper. The length stops are dead on accurate and very easy to flip out
of the way when needing to square up the ends of short boards and then
cut to length. And with long boards, with both wings up, I can simply
square one end of a long board, slide it down to the opposite side wing
stop and cut to length. Very well thought out.





So what is "job site rated" or the opinion it might not stand up to
long term use worth? Festool seems to do just fine with full time
professional use. He has small Festool track saw at his shop and since
he hates the mess of his table saw, uses it for all his "one off"
cabinet builds, from carcass to shelving, not just breaking down sheet
goods.
>
> HF tools have their place. Good for rough work, some good for rough treatment, and the thought that you live with varying quality depending on the tool. No real tears when you see them thrown in the bed of the truck for transport, when one of your idiots is using your miter saw to cut job site trash into smaller chunks, and no real fear of lending them to a worker to finish up a job, and no undue screaming at your workers when they leave them out in the rain while they huddle under the eaves of a roof so THEY don't get wet. They are adequate and affordable. They have their place.
>
> Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid. One is a tool designed and manufactured to the highest tolerances for dedicated woodworkers or exacting professionals, and one is a utility tool that fits a certain need. I have never heard of a professional saying, "man, one day I would really like to have one of those HF miter saws".
>
> Don't get this one...
>
> Robert
>

On 3/8/2018 1:31 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thursday, 8 March 2018 10:24:20 UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> Both and neither. I usually want to get my own hands on something
>> before making a concrete judgment.
>> But I also trust the words of people I know who have and do use tools
>> the way I do on a regular basis, like you and Robert and Karl and other
>> friends not in here.
>
> I agree. And at this point in my career I tend to have a different set of criteria I use and have scribbled about it endlessly here. Years ago (OK, maybe 20+) I realized that I am a business man with a developed skill set. No so much the craftsman/artisan/artist I aspired to be in my youth. With an eye towards utility, I always consider who is giving me their opinion and what their level of use is to form that opinion. So many of my fellow contractors are tired of poor performing, short lasting tools that we all respond with "well, it works great now, but I have only had it for a while", or "it's OK". The last tool I got excited about was the Ridgid 18V brushless drill/driver + impact tool combo. That was about a year ago.
>
> So we all have an agreement: if it works well for me, it might not work well for you. If I recommend it, then don't cry to me if it is a failure for you.
>
>> AND I trust what this guy has to say in the areas in which he obviously
>> has a lot of experience and knowledge. I don't know his entire
>> background or how much he uses or has used the tools. I can't see
>> someone who doesn't have a lot of firsthand experience with these tool
>> just deciding one day to start breaking them open and dissecting them.
>>
>> I take it with a grain of salt, but I also have gotten some very good
>> info from his videos.
>
> Agree again. Regardless of whether we agree on testing methods, rendered opinions, or any faulty premise we see, there is something to be learned from someone that goes that far in depth. Some of the findings are of value, and some are not. So his voice joins the choir when making a purchase decision.
>
> I am a self confessed knife nut. I have a lot by most people's standards, but just about the right amount for my tastes. You guys should see the "test" videos to see how "tough" guys decide a knife should be. They use folding knives to cut bolts, chop down small trees (talking about folding knives!), split wood, and they smash the locking device on the lockers until they fail.
>
> The testers feel they have accomplished something when the knife fails after being hammered on (literally), wrenched back and forth to try to break the blade, and gets dull quickly when cutting grit embedded material. Someone has to remind them that knives are made to slice and cut, that's it. Because some of the knife designs are so tough these days, they can take it to an extent.
>
> But after watching many of the "test" videos, I realized that their aim was to find the deficiencies of the product and push it to a dramatic failure. Real world testing and use just doesn't cut it anymore. Sound familiar?
>
> Robert
>
Sounds very familiar. Assessments on aspects that do not matter are
more in focus than intended performance.

On 3/3/2018 8:34 PM, [email protected] wrote:

Snip


>>
>> On a side note, I understand that if you use the bigger 36mm hose
>> instead of the more common 27mm hose dust collection works even better.
>> No bottle neck where the hose attaches to the saw. It fits over rather
>> than inside the saw manifold.
>
> Whichever way I go, I'll likely use my DC for the SCMS. It's pretty
> much right next to where it's going.
>
>> If you have an issue with dust you should check it out.
>
> I will. You convince me, long ago, that it's better to clean up the
> source than the floor (and lungs).
>

Yeah! It is ironic how long it took me to realize the benefits of
collecting dust before you see it. No need to clean up or dust off
before going inside the house and many fewer sinus issues. Out of the
40 years of serious wood working I went about 22 years before seeing the
light, instead of the dust. ;)

On 3/5/2018 1:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 3/5/18 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
>>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
>>>>>> sites set on the DeWalt DWS780.  But is the price difference
>>>>>> to enough to go from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90
>>>>>> day warranty for the Hercules?  Will anyone pay $399 for a HF
>>>>>> SCMS?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
>>>>>> means that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust
>>>>>> bag rather than in the bag.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>>>
>>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Love that guy! I'm watching it, now.
>>>
>>> Me too.  He speaks my language too.  He likes Hilti tools I think.
>>>  Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
>>> price)  He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous
>>> use and abuse that a contractor would need.
>>
>> And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.
>>> As a home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really,
>>> if I wanted to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti
>>> first.
>>>
>>> I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
>>> down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath.  Seemed to pass
>>> so I was happy.
>>>
>>> He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
>>>  after watching him a few times, I believe him.
>>>
>>
>> This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes
>> as possible.  Click bate.
>
> Actually, I find him both entertaining and knowledgeable.  Not your
> typical vapid haha type.
> He obviously has a lot of education/knowledge of electrical and
> mechanical engineering and knows a lot about plastics and metals
> manufacturing.
>
> I haven't found him to be a Festool basher.  He doesn't pull punches
> where he sees a need to be critical, but he also doesn't "look for
> reasons" to bash something.
> IIRC, he was concerned about one bearing on the saw, but he was also
> very impressed with the Festool casting and machining and took a lot of
> time to point it out and offered many compliments.
>
>
Regardless of his findings of materials used, the tools hold up,
extremely well. I personally could care less what the materials are
made up of if the tool does what it is suppose to do and for years on
end. I kind of finds his findings pointless. But he is funny, haha.
Obviously every thing has a weak point otherwise everything would one
day degenerate in to a pile of dust. ;~)

On 3/7/2018 8:02 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 3/6/2018 10:25 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 3/6/18 8:24 AM, Jack wrote:
>>> On 3/5/2018 1:07 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
>>>>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites
>>>>>>>> set
>>>>>>>> on the DeWalt DWS780.  But is the price difference to enough to go
>>>>>>>> from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
>>>>>>>> Hercules?  Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
>>>>>>>> that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather
>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>> in the bag.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Love that guy!
>>>>>> I'm watching it, now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Me too.  He speaks my language too.  He likes Hilti tools I think.
>>>>> Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
>>>>> price)  He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use
>>>>> and abuse that a contractor would need.
>>>>
>>>> And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..
>>>
>>> Pro's have also been using Harbor Freight junk, so what?
>>>
>>> I'd bet you would be more likely to see the pros using HF than Festools.
>>>
>>
>> Irrelevant to the context as to holding up to continuous use.
>> I would put good money on *any* Festool power tool lasting longer than
>> *any* HF power tool in side-by-side test.
>> Considering the price difference, it's not a difficult bet to make.
>
> The point of course is just because some pro somewhere uses a festering
> tool does not prove anything because pro's (more of them probably) also
> use HF tools. That doesn't mean HF tools are super durable any more than
> it proves festering tools are.  AVE's review indicates festering tools
> are good, but has a number of surprising weaknesses, considering the cost.
>
>

Jack, if some pro some where was the only one using Featool, like you
are painting the picture, Festool would not be in business.

Yes there are a lot of people that are not pro's that buy Festool these
days, they can afford the top end products whether they need them or
not. But Prior to about 12 years ago Festool, back some 50 or so years,
relied mostly on the pro.

It just so happens that they found that there was a market for people
that still wanted top quality tools and that also happened to be hobbyists.

I would say that I am some what of a pro, not full time pro, but I can
easily afford Festool products. And I cannot afford to build as much as
I do if I did not sell the vast majority of what I build. My material
costs far exceeds my tools costs. I have been seriously wood working
for 40 years and as a hobby since I was 10. I have a very good idea of
what brand tools to buy. FWIW many of my tool purchases, since I
bought my first Festool 11 years ago, have not been Festool. So you
can't say that I am one of the ignorant that believes that every tool
that a tool manufacturer makes is going to be top notch, that is just
not a reality. BUT I have yet to have to replace any of my Festool
tools which is not what I can say about any of the other brands that I
have bought. For certain the sanders have out lived my PC sanders by a
margin of 2 to 1, so far, and the Festool Sanders do more than my old PC
sanders.

As far as the click bait guy goes you can believe every thing he says
since you seem drawn to a person that uses words that you probably
cannot find in a dictionary. If you go to his YouTube videos and Click
on the Dirty Secrets of a $1000 saw, "you" and "I" have both been
victims of Click Bait. The saw in question costs no where near $1K,
Today years later after annual price increases, the saw sells for just
over half that price. I have the more expensive version and still paid
nowhere near $1K.

FWIW it is just as easy to correctly spell a tool name as make up a
derogatory name. Grow up, maybe you won't show your hand before you
say anything.

On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set on
> the DeWalt DWS780.  But is the price difference to enough to go from a 3
> year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the Hercules?  Will
> anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>
> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means that
> it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than in the bag.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.

--
Jeff

On 3/6/2018 5:09 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 12:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/6/2018 9:14 AM, Jack wrote:
>>> On 3/5/2018 5:49 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 3/5/2018 1:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> On 3/5/18 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
>>>>>>>>>> sites set on the DeWalt DWS780.  But is the price difference
>>>>>>>>>> to enough to go from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90
>>>>>>>>>> day warranty for the Hercules?  Will anyone pay $399 for a HF
>>>>>>>>>> SCMS?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
>>>>>>>>>> means that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust
>>>>>>>>>> bag rather than in the bag.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Love that guy! I'm watching it, now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Me too.  He speaks my language too.  He likes Hilti tools I think.
>>>>>>>  Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
>>>>>>> price)  He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous
>>>>>>> use and abuse that a contractor would need.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.
>>>>>>> As a home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really,
>>>>>>> if I wanted to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti
>>>>>>> first.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
>>>>>>> down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath.  Seemed to pass
>>>>>>> so I was happy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
>>>>>>>  after watching him a few times, I believe him.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes
>>>>>> as possible.  Click bate.
>>>>>
>>>>> Actually, I find him both entertaining and knowledgeable.  Not your
>>>>> typical vapid haha type.
>>>>> He obviously has a lot of education/knowledge of electrical and
>>>>> mechanical engineering and knows a lot about plastics and metals
>>>>> manufacturing.
>>>>>
>>>>> I haven't found him to be a Festool basher.  He doesn't pull punches
>>>>> where he sees a need to be critical, but he also doesn't "look for
>>>>> reasons" to bash something.
>>>>> IIRC, he was concerned about one bearing on the saw, but he was also
>>>>> very impressed with the Festool casting and machining and took a lot of
>>>>> time to point it out and offered many compliments.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Regardless of his findings of materials used, the tools hold up,
>>>> extremely well.
>>>
>>> Compared to what?  A high priced Hilti or a 1/10th priced HF?
>>
>> Compared to it not holding up well. I have yet to have one need to be
>> serviced yet or break down. Can't say that for my PC, Bosch, DeWalt tools.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> His opinion seems to be, based on tearing down tools to see what they
>>> are made of, is that the Festool is a nice tool, but you _don't_ get
>>> what you pay for, and the Hilti is a great tool, but you _do_ get what
>>> you pay for. Also, he said Festool seems designed for the occasional
>>> user that is not going to use and abuse the tool, like a homeowner. Not
>>> good for continuous use and abuse, like a contractor.
>>>
>>> My opinion is both tools are overkill for me and no one on earth _needs_
>>> to spend $700 on a shop vac, and festools target market seems to be the
>>> dude rancher.
>>
>>
>> And for you and your needs both brands are probably over kill. For me
>> not so much.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I personally could care less what the materials are
>>>> made up of if the tool does what it is suppose to do and for years on
>>>> end.  I kind of finds his findings pointless.
>>>
>>> He seems rather knowledgeable to me. Most reviews on Youtube are
>>> extremely shallow while his are anything but. Pointless is hard to
>>> figure.  He pointed out a few weaknesses in the TS55 design, also
>>> mentioned some strong points. And, he is somewhat entertaining while
>>> doing it.
>>>
>>
>> I think knowledgeable with a bias against almost every thing he putters
>> with, including other brand acquisitions.
>>
>> The whole point to his videos is to find something wrong with what ever
>> he disassembles. That is fine if you like to read something into that.
>>
>> It does not matter what or how a tool is made, if it holds up and
>> performs well, that is all that matters.
>>
>> I use my tools and do not sit back wondering if they will hold up or
>> not. Nor do I fear breaking them. I do not blindly assume Festool
>> makes nothing but perfection. I will tell you right up front that The
>> Festool parallel guides are a poor design and a PIA to use and they are
>> quite expensive.
>>
>> I proceeded with caution when I purchased my Dust Extractor and Domino,
>> 11 years ago, my first Festool tools. The Dust Extractor is operated
>> ever time I use my Domino, track saw, any of the 3 sanders, Kapex,
>> pocket hole jig, or for spot cleaning. The Domino has cut in excess of
>> 10,000 mortises and the machine still operates and and looks new. The
>> original 5mm bit that has cut probably 9,000 of those mortises and still
>> cuts perfectly fine. I cannot tell you how many times I have dropped
>> all three of my Festool sanders and Festool drill onto my concrete
>> floor, not a problem.
>>
>> How much do I use my tools? I have posted countless links to projects
>> that I have built in the past 20 years of participating on this news
>> group. 90% of those projects were for customers.
>
> Hey dude, where's your ranch? ;-)
>



Eggsactly!

On another note, I noticed that Festool has, well on April 2, will be
coming out with a Granet NET sanding disk with intermediate pad.

https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tools/granat-net?utm_source=email&utm_medium=button&utm_campaign=sysnotes_mar2

On 3/6/2018 9:14 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 3/5/2018 5:49 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/5/2018 1:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 3/5/18 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
>>>>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
>>>>>>>> sites set on the DeWalt DWS780.  But is the price difference
>>>>>>>> to enough to go from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90
>>>>>>>> day warranty for the Hercules?  Will anyone pay $399 for a HF
>>>>>>>> SCMS?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
>>>>>>>> means that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust
>>>>>>>> bag rather than in the bag.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Love that guy! I'm watching it, now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Me too.  He speaks my language too.  He likes Hilti tools I think.
>>>>>  Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
>>>>> price)  He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous
>>>>> use and abuse that a contractor would need.
>>>>
>>>> And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.
>>>>> As a home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really,
>>>>> if I wanted to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti
>>>>> first.
>>>>>
>>>>> I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
>>>>> down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath.  Seemed to pass
>>>>> so I was happy.
>>>>>
>>>>> He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
>>>>>  after watching him a few times, I believe him.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes
>>>> as possible.  Click bate.
>>>
>>> Actually, I find him both entertaining and knowledgeable.  Not your
>>> typical vapid haha type.
>>> He obviously has a lot of education/knowledge of electrical and
>>> mechanical engineering and knows a lot about plastics and metals
>>> manufacturing.
>>>
>>> I haven't found him to be a Festool basher.  He doesn't pull punches
>>> where he sees a need to be critical, but he also doesn't "look for
>>> reasons" to bash something.
>>> IIRC, he was concerned about one bearing on the saw, but he was also
>>> very impressed with the Festool casting and machining and took a lot of
>>> time to point it out and offered many compliments.
>>>
>>>
>> Regardless of his findings of materials used, the tools hold up,
>> extremely well.
>
> Compared to what?  A high priced Hilti or a 1/10th priced HF?

Compared to it not holding up well. I have yet to have one need to be
serviced yet or break down. Can't say that for my PC, Bosch, DeWalt tools.



>
> His opinion seems to be, based on tearing down tools to see what they
> are made of, is that the Festool is a nice tool, but you _don't_ get
> what you pay for, and the Hilti is a great tool, but you _do_ get what
> you pay for. Also, he said Festool seems designed for the occasional
> user that is not going to use and abuse the tool, like a homeowner. Not
> good for continuous use and abuse, like a contractor.
>
> My opinion is both tools are overkill for me and no one on earth _needs_
> to spend $700 on a shop vac, and festools target market seems to be the
> dude rancher.


And for you and your needs both brands are probably over kill. For me
not so much.



>
> I personally could care less what the materials are
>> made up of if the tool does what it is suppose to do and for years on
>> end.  I kind of finds his findings pointless.
>
> He seems rather knowledgeable to me. Most reviews on Youtube are
> extremely shallow while his are anything but. Pointless is hard to
> figure.  He pointed out a few weaknesses in the TS55 design, also
> mentioned some strong points. And, he is somewhat entertaining while
> doing it.
>

I think knowledgeable with a bias against almost every thing he putters
with, including other brand acquisitions.

The whole point to his videos is to find something wrong with what ever
he disassembles. That is fine if you like to read something into that.

It does not matter what or how a tool is made, if it holds up and
performs well, that is all that matters.

I use my tools and do not sit back wondering if they will hold up or
not. Nor do I fear breaking them. I do not blindly assume Festool
makes nothing but perfection. I will tell you right up front that The
Festool parallel guides are a poor design and a PIA to use and they are
quite expensive.

I proceeded with caution when I purchased my Dust Extractor and Domino,
11 years ago, my first Festool tools. The Dust Extractor is operated
ever time I use my Domino, track saw, any of the 3 sanders, Kapex,
pocket hole jig, or for spot cleaning. The Domino has cut in excess of
10,000 mortises and the machine still operates and and looks new. The
original 5mm bit that has cut probably 9,000 of those mortises and still
cuts perfectly fine. I cannot tell you how many times I have dropped
all three of my Festool sanders and Festool drill onto my concrete
floor, not a problem.

How much do I use my tools? I have posted countless links to projects
that I have built in the past 20 years of participating on this news
group. 90% of those projects were for customers.

On 3/7/2018 9:33 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 3/7/18 7:40 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
>>>>>>>>>> sites set
>>>>>>>>>> on the DeWalt DWS780.  But is the price difference to enough
>>>>>>>>>> to go
>>>>>>>>>> from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
>>>>>>>>>> Hercules?  Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
>>>>>>>>>> means
>>>>>>>>>> that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag
>>>>>>>>>> rather than
>>>>>>>>>> in the bag.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Love that guy!
>>>>>>>> I'm watching it, now.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Me too.  He speaks my language too.  He likes Hilti tools I
>>>>>>> think.  Not
>>>>>>> at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
>>>>>>> price)  He
>>>>>>> said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and
>>>>>>> abuse
>>>>>>> that a contractor would need.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Duh!  It's not a contractor saw.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just priced like one...
>>>>
>>>> A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home
>>>>>>> user.  As a
>>>>>>> home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I
>>>>>>> wanted
>>>>>>> to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
>>>>>>> down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath.  Seemed to pass
>>>>>>> so I
>>>>>>> was happy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review,
>>>>>>> and after
>>>>>>> watching him a few times, I believe him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.
>>>>>
>>>>> What might that be?
>>>>
>>>> Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.
>>>>
>>> By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
>>> looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?
>>
>> Someone who has nothing better to do with his life?  Yeah, an nutter.
>>
>>> That's exactly what I think as well...
>>
>> ...but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.
>>
>
> Man, are you a judgmental, crotchety old fart.   :-)
>
> The guy's has turned a hobby into a pretty decent part time job.
> As someone who's gotten regular direct deposits from Youtube for my
> content, I wish I had the followers and plays that he has.
>
> He's providing pretty entertaining and educational content and getting
> paid pretty well for it.  You condescending and ignorantly ask if he has
> nothing better to do with his life?
>
> What would you prefer he do with his spare time?  Watch TV all night?
> How much do you get paid for bitching about guys putting videos on YouTube?
>
>
But do you really want to go with the opinion of some one that obviously
does not have hands on experience with actual use? Or some one that
actually uses the tools and and have determined that his findings are
irrelevant? ;~) Just saying... ;~)

On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 12:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 3/6/2018 9:14 AM, Jack wrote:
> > On 3/5/2018 5:49 PM, Leon wrote:
> >> On 3/5/2018 1:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> >>> On 3/5/18 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
> >>>> On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
> >>>>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> >>>>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
> >>>>>>>> sites set on the DeWalt DWS780.=C2=A0 But is the price differenc=
e
> >>>>>>>> to enough to go from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90
> >>>>>>>> day warranty for the Hercules?=C2=A0 Will anyone pay $399 for a =
HF
> >>>>>>>> SCMS?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJfLR-FQGgGU
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
> >>>>>>>> means that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust
> >>>>>>>> bag rather than in the bag.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3D5&v=3DfLCrCz1_2rc
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Love that guy! I'm watching it, now.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Me too.=C2=A0 He speaks my language too.=C2=A0 He likes Hilti tools=
I think.
> >>>>> =C2=A0Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering t=
he
> >>>>> price)=C2=A0 He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for contin=
uous
> >>>>> use and abuse that a contractor would need.
> >>>>
> >>>> And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.
> >>>>> As a home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really,
> >>>>> if I wanted to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti
> >>>>> first.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
> >>>>> down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath.=C2=A0 Seemed to p=
ass
> >>>>> so I was happy.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
> >>>>> =C2=A0after watching him a few times, I believe him.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes
> >>>> as possible.=C2=A0 Click bate.
> >>>
> >>> Actually, I find him both entertaining and knowledgeable.=C2=A0 Not y=
our
> >>> typical vapid haha type.
> >>> He obviously has a lot of education/knowledge of electrical and
> >>> mechanical engineering and knows a lot about plastics and metals
> >>> manufacturing.
> >>>
> >>> I haven't found him to be a Festool basher.=C2=A0 He doesn't pull pun=
ches
> >>> where he sees a need to be critical, but he also doesn't "look for
> >>> reasons" to bash something.
> >>> IIRC, he was concerned about one bearing on the saw, but he was also
> >>> very impressed with the Festool casting and machining and took a lot =
of
> >>> time to point it out and offered many compliments.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> Regardless of his findings of materials used, the tools hold up,
> >> extremely well.
> >=20
> > Compared to what?=C2=A0 A high priced Hilti or a 1/10th priced HF?
>=20
> Compared to it not holding up well. I have yet to have one need to be=20
> serviced yet or break down. Can't say that for my PC, Bosch, DeWalt tool=
s.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >=20
> > His opinion seems to be, based on tearing down tools to see what they=
=20
> > are made of, is that the Festool is a nice tool, but you _don't_ get=20
> > what you pay for, and the Hilti is a great tool, but you _do_ get what=
=20
> > you pay for. Also, he said Festool seems designed for the occasional=20
> > user that is not going to use and abuse the tool, like a homeowner. Not=
=20
> > good for continuous use and abuse, like a contractor.
> >=20
> > My opinion is both tools are overkill for me and no one on earth _needs=
_=20
> > to spend $700 on a shop vac, and festools target market seems to be the=
=20
> > dude rancher.
>=20
>=20
> And for you and your needs both brands are probably over kill. For me=20
> not so much.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >=20
> > I personally could care less what the materials are
> >> made up of if the tool does what it is suppose to do and for years on
> >> end.=C2=A0 I kind of finds his findings pointless.
> >=20
> > He seems rather knowledgeable to me. Most reviews on Youtube are=20
> > extremely shallow while his are anything but. Pointless is hard to=20
> > figure.=C2=A0 He pointed out a few weaknesses in the TS55 design, also=
=20
> > mentioned some strong points. And, he is somewhat entertaining while=20
> > doing it.
> >=20
>=20
> I think knowledgeable with a bias against almost every thing he putters=
=20
> with, including other brand acquisitions.
>=20
> The whole point to his videos is to find something wrong with what ever=
=20
> he disassembles. That is fine if you like to read something into that.
>=20
> It does not matter what or how a tool is made, if it holds up and=20
> performs well, that is all that matters.
>=20
> I use my tools and do not sit back wondering if they will hold up or=20
> not. Nor do I fear breaking them. I do not blindly assume Festool=20
> makes nothing but perfection. I will tell you right up front that The=20
> Festool parallel guides are a poor design and a PIA to use and they are=
=20
> quite expensive.
>=20
> I proceeded with caution when I purchased my Dust Extractor and Domino,=
=20
> 11 years ago, my first Festool tools. The Dust Extractor is operated=20
> ever time I use my Domino, track saw, any of the 3 sanders, Kapex,=20
> pocket hole jig, or for spot cleaning. The Domino has cut in excess of=
=20
> 10,000 mortises and the machine still operates and and looks new. The=20
> original 5mm bit that has cut probably 9,000 of those mortises and still=
=20
> cuts perfectly fine. I cannot tell you how many times I have dropped=20
> all three of my Festool sanders and Festool drill onto my concrete=20
> floor, not a problem.
>=20
> How much do I use my tools? I have posted countless links to projects=20
> that I have built in the past 20 years of participating on this news=20
> group. 90% of those projects were for customers.

Hey dude, where's your ranch? ;-)

On Thursday, 8 March 2018 10:24:20 UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

> Both and neither. I usually want to get my own hands on something=20
> before making a concrete judgment.
> But I also trust the words of people I know who have and do use tools=20
> the way I do on a regular basis, like you and Robert and Karl and other=
=20
> friends not in here.

I agree. And at this point in my career I tend to have a different set of =
criteria I use and have scribbled about it endlessly here. Years ago (OK, =
maybe 20+) I realized that I am a business man with a developed skill set. =
No so much the craftsman/artisan/artist I aspired to be in my youth. With=
an eye towards utility, I always consider who is giving me their opinion a=
nd what their level of use is to form that opinion. So many of my fellow c=
ontractors are tired of poor performing, short lasting tools that we all re=
spond with "well, it works great now, but I have only had it for a while", =
or "it's OK". The last tool I got excited about was the Ridgid 18V brushle=
ss drill/driver + impact tool combo. That was about a year ago.

So we all have an agreement: if it works well for me, it might not work wel=
l for you. If I recommend it, then don't cry to me if it is a failure for =
you.

> AND I trust what this guy has to say in the areas in which he obviously=
=20
> has a lot of experience and knowledge. I don't know his entire=20
> background or how much he uses or has used the tools. I can't see=20
> someone who doesn't have a lot of firsthand experience with these tool=20
> just deciding one day to start breaking them open and dissecting them.
>=20
> I take it with a grain of salt, but I also have gotten some very good=20
> info from his videos.

Agree again. Regardless of whether we agree on testing methods, rendered o=
pinions, or any faulty premise we see, there is something to be learned fro=
m someone that goes that far in depth. Some of the findings are of value, =
and some are not. So his voice joins the choir when making a purchase deci=
sion.

I am a self confessed knife nut. I have a lot by most people's standards, =
but just about the right amount for my tastes. You guys should see the "te=
st" videos to see how "tough" guys decide a knife should be. They use fold=
ing knives to cut bolts, chop down small trees (talking about folding knive=
s!), split wood, and they smash the locking device on the lockers until the=
y fail.

The testers feel they have accomplished something when the knife fails afte=
r being hammered on (literally), wrenched back and forth to try to break th=
e blade, and gets dull quickly when cutting grit embedded material. Someon=
e has to remind them that knives are made to slice and cut, that's it. Bec=
ause some of the knife designs are so tough these days, they can take it to=
an extent. =20

But after watching many of the "test" videos, I realized that their aim was=
to find the deficiencies of the product and push it to a dramatic failure.=
Real world testing and use just doesn't cut it anymore. Sound familiar?

Robert

If it was me, or only me and a trusted assistant I would buy Festool for al=
most all my needs. And yes, under those conditions I would take them out t=
o a job site when needed. The only tool I wouldn't buy that they make is th=
eir drills. Too much value these days in the lifetime warranty (and recent=
brushless models) for me to buy something else.

I have multiples of all the tools I use, and most are of different models f=
rom different manufacturers. Over the last 40 years of doing this as a con=
tractor for myself I look for value, durability, and repeatability in use. =
NO manufacturer makes all their tools in all their models to that standard=
. I have had DeWalt tools that are garbage. Had DeWalt tools that are grea=
t. Bosch has a pretty good track record with me and their oscillating tool=
, the old American made circulars saws were great. PC was a good brand, ne=
ver great, but they turned out some real crap and have now fallen off the r=
adar. Makita? Depends on what you are buying. The list goes on.

Festool, and probably Fein are the only commonly available tool that you ca=
n buy with complete confidence. For those that take care of their tools an=
d rely on them to make their living, I think in most cases Festool is unmat=
ched. Personally, I say all that bullshit about "contractor rated" or "ful=
l time use" and all the other marketing crap is just that. I watch some of=
the videos out there and always remember that 99% of the uploaders don't a=
ctually use their tools to make a living. They use the videos to supplemen=
t their income so it is important to say or do something that attracts atte=
ntion to their videos for the almighty "click".

I first saw the Festool track saw in use when visiting Swingman and Leon. =
Swing took out the saw and showed me the setup, cut a piece of plywood, and=
we talked about the strong points and weak points. For those of us that k=
now Swing (bless his heart), he is blunt and proud of his opinions. He was =
enormously impressed with the track saw, and after seeing it in use and its=
ease of setup, I was too. The cuts would rival or exceed most table saws, =
and the blade should (literally) last for years.

Leon's opinions concur, and again, having seen the saw, the setup and the f=
inal product I think it is a winner. If I needed a track saw, I would get =
that one.

So why don't I have all Festool? What is the place of Harbor Freight and o=
ther discount tools? Employees that don't take care of your tools as you d=
o, employees that don't know how to use tools correctly, the very real poss=
ibility of job site theft, and for almost all the needs on a construction s=
ite there is no need for the kind of quality work that their tools are capa=
ble of doing.

Comparing HF, or others to Festool has to be with a grain of salt. I only k=
now of two other contractors that use Festool out in the field (and one lov=
es those damn drills) and neither of them have ever had a failure. One is =
a cabinet installer that specialized in remodeling projects, so Festool's K=
apex miter saw and his dust collector is his weapon of choice. He is one =
of the very few craftsmen I trust, and he tells me that the Kapex is as acc=
urate now as it was 5 years ago when he bought it, used over countless jobs=
. So what is "job site rated" or the opinion it might not stand up to long=
term use worth? Festool seems to do just fine with full time professional=
use. He has small Festool track saw at his shop and since he hates the me=
ss of his table saw, uses it for all his "one off" cabinet builds, from car=
cass to shelving, not just breaking down sheet goods.

HF tools have their place. Good for rough work, some good for rough treatm=
ent, and the thought that you live with varying quality depending on the to=
ol. No real tears when you see them thrown in the bed of the truck for tra=
nsport, when one of your idiots is using your miter saw to cut job site tra=
sh into smaller chunks, and no real fear of lending them to a worker to fin=
ish up a job, and no undue screaming at your workers when they leave them o=
ut in the rain while they huddle under the eaves of a roof so THEY don't ge=
t wet. They are adequate and affordable. They have their place.

Comparing HF to Festool in just about anyway is just stupid. One is a tool=
designed and manufactured to the highest tolerances for dedicated woodwork=
ers or exacting professionals, and one is a utility tool that fits a certai=
n need. I have never heard of a professional saying, "man, one day I would =
really like to have one of those HF miter saws".

Don't get this one...

Robert

On Wed, 7 Mar 2018 10:00:45 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
>>>>>>>> on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
>>>>>>>> from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
>>>>>>>> Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
>>>>>>>> that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
>>>>>>>> in the bag.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Love that guy!
>>>>>> I'm watching it, now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
>>>>> at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
>>>>> said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
>>>>> that a contractor would need.
>>>>
>>>> Duh! It's not a contractor saw.
>>>
>>> Just priced like one...
>>
>> A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!
>>>
>>>>> Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
>>>>> home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
>>>>> to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.
>>>>>
>>>>> I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
>>>>> down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
>>>>> was happy.
>>>>>
>>>>> He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
>>>>> watching him a few times, I believe him.
>>>>
>>>> So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.
>>>
>>> What might that be?
>>
>> Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.
>>
>By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
>looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?

Someone who has nothing better to do with his life? Yeah, an nutter.

>That's exactly what I think as well...

...but not as nutty as those who click on his bait.

On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 7:35:46 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 3/6/2018 5:42 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 6:18:38 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 3/6/2018 5:09 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 12:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >>>> On 3/6/2018 9:14 AM, Jack wrote:
> >
> > ...snip...
> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My opinion is both tools are overkill for me and no one on earth _needs_
> >>>>> to spend $700 on a shop vac, and festools target market seems to be the
> >>>>> dude rancher.
> >
> > ...snip...
> >
> >>>> How much do I use my tools? I have posted countless links to projects
> >>>> that I have built in the past 20 years of participating on this news
> >>>> group. 90% of those projects were for customers.
> >>>
> >>> Hey dude, where's your ranch? ;-)
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Eggsactly!
> >>
> >> On another note, I noticed that Festool has, well on April 2, will be
> >> coming out with a Granet NET sanding disk with intermediate pad.
> >>
> >> https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tools/granat-net?utm_source=email&utm_medium=button&utm_campaign=sysnotes_mar2
> >
> > Ya know, you could do us (me!) a big favor and try a pack of the Diablo
> > SandNet discs.
>
> Sure, send them down. ;~)
>
>
>
> >
> > You've tried sand nets that you didn't like and you have found sanding disks
> > that you do like, so you would be the perfect tester for the Diablo product.
>
> I think the big issue with me is that I sand narrow face frames and the
> foam intermediate pad allows the net to compress over the face frame and
> that adds more stress to the net. IIRC I had no issue when sanding wide
> open flat spots but when the edge of the net went over an edge I had
> problems.

That's exactly why I want you to try the Diablo discs. I've done the *edges*
of 3/4" stock, 2" face frames, etc. and never even came close to tearing a
disc. I even rounded edges (purposely) on rough work, just to knock the sharp
off.

You know you are not supposed to stand on the sander while using it right? Let
the tool do the work. ;-)

>
> The paper sand paper has more reinforcement backing from the sander pad.
>
> >
> > I don't have enough experience to do a good comparison and might not even be
> > able to put the choices through their paces correctly.
> >
> > https://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-5-in-180-Grit-SandNet-Disc-with-Free-Application-Pad-10-Pack-DND050180H10I/301439869
> >
> > Let us know how you like them. ;-)
> >

On Saturday, March 3, 2018 at 10:49:30 AM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set on=
=20
> the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go from a 3=
=20
> year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the Hercules? Will=
=20
> anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?

You know realistically you will never have to. On big ticket items they fr=
equently have sales on them showing 25% off or more. Then there is the cou=
pon that comes every other day in email, a flyer every two weeks with the s=
ame, and every quarter a flyer with 25% off. So $300 plus some change is r=
ealistic.

The saw looked nice in the video, and the construction sure looked like a l=
ot of miter saws out there. I know this is a "badged item" but I couldn't r=
eally find anyone's specs out there that match this model. BTW, sure like t=
he LED. I like the adjustable stainless turret ring detent as you can fine =
tune your saw beyond factory. Most saws (any besides DeWalt?) don't allow =
you to get fine tuned to your own specs. The blue blade looks suspiciously =
like a Diablo blade with its laser cut outs, but doubt that it is.

As far as the 90 day warranty, you can get an in store warranty for just a =
few dollars to extend it to 2 years. That is for //replacement// at the st=
ore, not for repairs. Having waited for parts on my Bostitch air guns, my =
DeWalt saws and drills, and having to ship off my Ridgid tools for evaluati=
on before repairs, I like that. Pretty nice to be able to have a tool break=
in the morning and have a new one out on the job in a couple of hours at n=
o additional charge. Both DeWalt and Bosch require you to ship (a 60lb mite=
r saw) to their repair center if you don't have one in your town. The cave=
at there is to find the DeWalt/Bosch center that works on your particular t=
ool; don't get me started on that subject.

Note too, that when reading the respective warranties, that DeWalt is 3 yea=
r limited, and Bosch only 1 year limited. Limited in both cases means that=
there is no warranty for anything other than manufacturing defects of mate=
rial or in workmanship. Their warranties do not cover wear and tear. I like=
DeWalt tools and like Bosch tools (some a great deal) but never have I gon=
e to the repair center where I didn't pay extra for repairs. Remember, ben=
ch fees at most places are about $75 and they determine what is normal wear=
and tear. So it is a $75 crap shoot; and if they ask you if you use the t=
ool commercially, I can almost guarantee there will be no warranty. In stor=
e replacement starts to look even better, right? Consider too, that most ma=
nufacturers exclude professional use of the tools from anything more than a=
90 day warranty, regardless of box art claims.

I have used the HF additional warranty coverage, and believe me, no one in =
the store I go to wants to argue. They look at the tool, make sure it wasn=
't run over and shows no signs of obvious abuse, they get the manager and y=
ou have a new tool. And with the purchase of the additional warranty, they=
register you and the tool purchase info on the spot.

So all that for probably about $350, including additional local warranty as=
described/experienced. That puts it a whopping $250 under the DeWalt and =
Bosch I found at Amazon. They are at $599 as of a few minutes ago.

I think it will come down to the actual repeatable accuracy and dependabili=
ty of the saw. Even though some of the new offerings from HF like their Ba=
uer and Hercules seem to spec out better, apparently some guys on the 'net =
seem to think they are inferior products. At $250 less, it seems like it c=
ould sure be worth looking at!

Robert =20



=20

=20

On 3/7/2018 9:00 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 3/6/2018 8:07 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 09:24:24 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
>>>>>>>> sites set
>>>>>>>> on the DeWalt DWS780.  But is the price difference to enough to go
>>>>>>>> from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
>>>>>>>> Hercules?  Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
>>>>>>>> that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather
>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>> in the bag.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Love that guy!
>>>>>> I'm watching it, now.
>>>>>
>>>>> Me too.  He speaks my language too.  He likes Hilti tools I think.
>>>>> Not
>>>>> at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price)  He
>>>>> said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
>>>>> that a contractor would need.
>>>>
>>>> Duh!  It's not a contractor saw.
>>>
>>> Just priced like one...
>>
>> A BMW 7-Series is priced even higher!
>>>
>>>>> Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.
>>>>> As a
>>>>> home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I
>>>>> wanted
>>>>> to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.
>>>>>
>>>>> I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
>>>>> down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath.  Seemed to pass so I
>>>>> was happy.
>>>>>
>>>>> He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
>>>>> after
>>>>> watching him a few times, I believe him.
>>>>
>>>> So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.
>>>
>>> What might that be?
>>
>> Because they don't want their tools associated with a nutter.
>>
> By "nutter" you must mean someone that will disassemble their tool
> looking for built in weaknesses and expose them to the public?
>
> That's exactly what I think as well...

Yeah, some one that likes to disassemble tools rather than use them.

On Sat, 3 Mar 2018 11:38:54 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 3/3/2018 11:18 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 3 Mar 2018 10:49:11 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set on
>>> the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go from a 3
>>> year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the Hercules? Will
>>> anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>
>> I liked the first sentence of this comment: "Harbor Freight's been
>> sniffing too much cosmoline...."
>>
>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means that
>>> it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than in the bag.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>
>> That's better than Bosch. Even with a vac, the users shirt gets more
>> sawdust than the vac. So, how's the Kapex for dust? It's looking
>> better and better.
>>
>
>The Kapex dust collection with the vac is probably better than the dust
>collection of their track saws. You really don't notice any dust until
>you have cut several boards. And then it is mostly the coarse stuff
>that does not go far. I stay as free of dust on my clothing as I do
>when using my Festool sanders, and those work extremely well.
>
>I will have to say that I am very happy with the set up I got with the
>Kapex as well as the Kapex. I knew that this purchase would be an
>indulgence as it was hard to justify the price considering how much I
>thought I would use it. More and more I am thinking that the dust
>collection alone may very well justify the price over the Bosch Glide
>that I was considering.
>
>On a side note, I understand that if you use the bigger 36mm hose
>instead of the more common 27mm hose dust collection works even better.
>No bottle neck where the hose attaches to the saw. It fits over rather
>than inside the saw manifold.

Whichever way I go, I'll likely use my DC for the SCMS. It's pretty
much right next to where it's going.

>If you have an issue with dust you should check it out.

I will. You convince me, long ago, that it's better to clean up the
source than the floor (and lungs).

On 3/6/2018 5:42 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 6:18:38 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 3/6/2018 5:09 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, March 6, 2018 at 12:25:44 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 3/6/2018 9:14 AM, Jack wrote:
>
> ...snip...
>
>>>>>
>>>>> My opinion is both tools are overkill for me and no one on earth _needs_
>>>>> to spend $700 on a shop vac, and festools target market seems to be the
>>>>> dude rancher.
>
> ...snip...
>
>>>> How much do I use my tools? I have posted countless links to projects
>>>> that I have built in the past 20 years of participating on this news
>>>> group. 90% of those projects were for customers.
>>>
>>> Hey dude, where's your ranch? ;-)
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Eggsactly!
>>
>> On another note, I noticed that Festool has, well on April 2, will be
>> coming out with a Granet NET sanding disk with intermediate pad.
>>
>> https://www.festoolusa.com/power-tools/granat-net?utm_source=email&utm_medium=button&utm_campaign=sysnotes_mar2
>
> Ya know, you could do us (me!) a big favor and try a pack of the Diablo
> SandNet discs.

Sure, send them down. ;~)



>
> You've tried sand nets that you didn't like and you have found sanding disks
> that you do like, so you would be the perfect tester for the Diablo product.

I think the big issue with me is that I sand narrow face frames and the
foam intermediate pad allows the net to compress over the face frame and
that adds more stress to the net. IIRC I had no issue when sanding wide
open flat spots but when the edge of the net went over an edge I had
problems.

The paper sand paper has more reinforcement backing from the sander pad.

>
> I don't have enough experience to do a good comparison and might not even be
> able to put the choices through their paces correctly.
>
> https://www.homedepot.com/p/Diablo-5-in-180-Grit-SandNet-Disc-with-Free-Application-Pad-10-Pack-DND050180H10I/301439869
>
> Let us know how you like them. ;-)
>

On 3/3/2018 12:55 PM, [email protected] wrote:
Snip


> I think it will come down to the actual repeatable accuracy and dependability of the saw. Even though some of the new offerings from HF like their Bauer and Hercules seem to spec out better, apparently some guys on the 'net seem to think they are inferior products. At $250 less, it seems like it could sure be worth looking at!
>
> Robert
>

That is what it is all about, will it be accurate. My big question is
if it will be that much better than their Chicago Electric saw that
sells for less than half of that price. Apparently users of the Chicago
saw are pretty impressed too.

On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
>> on the DeWalt DWS780.  But is the price difference to enough to go
>> from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
>> Hercules?  Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>
>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
>> that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
>> in the bag.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>
> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>

Love that guy!
I'm watching it, now.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
>>> on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
>>> from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
>>> Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>
>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
>>> that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
>>> in the bag.
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>
>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>
>
> Love that guy!
> I'm watching it, now.

Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
that a contractor would need.

Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.

I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
was happy.

He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
watching him a few times, I believe him.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/3/2018 1:55 PM, [email protected] wrote:

BTW, sure like the LED.

I have a Crapsman 20 volt saw that has a laser light. I LOVE the light,
and it enables me to cut almost as straight as a carpenter. My tailed
Makita is a nice saw, but I'd never buy another circular saw w/o a
laser. Makes cutting down the line of a 4/8 foot hunk of ply a breeze.
Thought it might be a gimmick, but it's not.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/5/18 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
>>>>> sites set on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference
>>>>> to enough to go from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90
>>>>> day warranty for the Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF
>>>>> SCMS?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>>
>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
>>>>> means that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust
>>>>> bag rather than in the bag.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>>
>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Love that guy! I'm watching it, now.
>>
>> Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think.
>> Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
>> price) He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous
>> use and abuse that a contractor would need.
>
> And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..
>
>
>
>>
>> Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.
>> As a home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really,
>> if I wanted to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti
>> first.
>>
>> I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
>> down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass
>> so I was happy.
>>
>> He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
>> after watching him a few times, I believe him.
>>
>
> This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes
> as possible. Click bate.

Actually, I find him both entertaining and knowledgeable. Not your
typical vapid haha type.
He obviously has a lot of education/knowledge of electrical and
mechanical engineering and knows a lot about plastics and metals
manufacturing.

I haven't found him to be a Festool basher. He doesn't pull punches
where he sees a need to be critical, but he also doesn't "look for
reasons" to bash something.
IIRC, he was concerned about one bearing on the saw, but he was also
very impressed with the Festool casting and machining and took a lot of
time to point it out and offered many compliments.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 3/3/18 10:49 AM, Leon wrote:
> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set on
> the DeWalt DWS780.  But is the price difference to enough to go from a 3
> year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the Hercules?  Will
> anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>
> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means that
> it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than in the bag.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc

Home Depot must be paying attention....
<https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-10-in-Sliding-Miter-R4210/301463268>
70° miter capacity!!


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 3/5/2018 1:07 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
>>>>> on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
>>>>> from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
>>>>> Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>>
>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
>>>>> that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
>>>>> in the bag.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>>
>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Love that guy!
>>> I'm watching it, now.
>>
>> Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think.
>> Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
>> price) He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use
>> and abuse that a contractor would need.
>
> And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..

Pro's have also been using Harbor Freight junk, so what?

I'd bet you would be more likely to see the pros using HF than Festools.

>> Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As
>> a home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I
>> wanted to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.
>>
>> I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
>> down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
>> was happy.
>>
>> He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
>> after watching him a few times, I believe him.
>>
>
> This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes as
> possible. Click bate.


--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/5/2018 2:03 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Mar 2018 09:12:53 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's sites set
>>>>> on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference to enough to go
>>>>> from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90 day warranty for the
>>>>> Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF SCMS?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>>
>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently means
>>>>> that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust bag rather than
>>>>> in the bag.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>>
>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Love that guy!
>>> I'm watching it, now.
>>
>> Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think. Not
>> at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the price) He
>> said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous use and abuse
>> that a contractor would need.
>
> Duh! It's not a contractor saw.

Just priced like one...

>> Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user. As a
>> home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really, if I wanted
>> to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti first.
>>
>> I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
>> down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass so I
>> was happy.
>>
>> He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and after
>> watching him a few times, I believe him.
>
> So do I, but likely for a whole different reason than do you.

What might that be?
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com

On 3/5/2018 5:49 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 3/5/2018 1:26 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 3/5/18 12:07 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 3/5/2018 8:12 AM, Jack wrote:
>>>> On 3/3/2018 3:12 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> On 3/3/18 12:50 PM, woodchucker wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/3/2018 11:49 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>> Apparently the new line of HF tools, Hercules, has got it's
>>>>>>> sites set on the DeWalt DWS780. But is the price difference
>>>>>>> to enough to go from a 3 year warranty on the DeWalt to a 90
>>>>>>> day warranty for the Hercules? Will anyone pay $399 for a HF
>>>>>>> SCMS?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfLR-FQGgGU
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And the claimed "high efficiency dust collection" apparently
>>>>>>> means that it will collect dust on the outside of the dust
>>>>>>> bag rather than in the bag.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=fLCrCz1_2rc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, Watch AVE's teardown of the hercules drills. Crap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Love that guy! I'm watching it, now.
>>>>
>>>> Me too. He speaks my language too. He likes Hilti tools I think.
>>>> Not at all impressed with the festering tools, (considering the
>>>> price) He said the festering TS 55 is not designed for continuous
>>>> use and abuse that a contractor would need.
>>>
>>> And yet pros have been using the Festool track saws for decades..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hilti on the other hand he thinks is over kill for the home user.
>>>> As a home user, I wouldn't spend the bucks on either, but really,
>>>> if I wanted to spend that much on a hand tool, I'd look at a Hilti
>>>> first.
>>>>
>>>> I bought my wife a kitchen aid mixer, and THEN watched his tear
>>>> down/review of the same mixer, holding my breath. Seemed to pass
>>>> so I was happy.
>>>>
>>>> He says no manufacturer would ever send him a tool for review, and
>>>> after watching him a few times, I believe him.
>>>>
>>>
>>> This guy is like many on YouTube, simply trying to get as many likes
>>> as possible. Click bate.
>>
>> Actually, I find him both entertaining and knowledgeable. Not your
>> typical vapid haha type.
>> He obviously has a lot of education/knowledge of electrical and
>> mechanical engineering and knows a lot about plastics and metals
>> manufacturing.
>>
>> I haven't found him to be a Festool basher. He doesn't pull punches
>> where he sees a need to be critical, but he also doesn't "look for
>> reasons" to bash something.
>> IIRC, he was concerned about one bearing on the saw, but he was also
>> very impressed with the Festool casting and machining and took a lot of
>> time to point it out and offered many compliments.
>>
>>
> Regardless of his findings of materials used, the tools hold up,
> extremely well.

Compared to what? A high priced Hilti or a 1/10th priced HF?

His opinion seems to be, based on tearing down tools to see what they
are made of, is that the Festool is a nice tool, but you _don't_ get
what you pay for, and the Hilti is a great tool, but you _do_ get what
you pay for. Also, he said Festool seems designed for the occasional
user that is not going to use and abuse the tool, like a homeowner. Not
good for continuous use and abuse, like a contractor.

My opinion is both tools are overkill for me and no one on earth _needs_
to spend $700 on a shop vac, and festools target market seems to be the
dude rancher.

I personally could care less what the materials are
> made up of if the tool does what it is suppose to do and for years on
> end. I kind of finds his findings pointless.

He seems rather knowledgeable to me. Most reviews on Youtube are
extremely shallow while his are anything but. Pointless is hard to
figure. He pointed out a few weaknesses in the TS55 design, also
mentioned some strong points. And, he is somewhat entertaining while
doing it.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com