Am I getting ripped? Local lumber yard

Excellent advice. One of the most informative posts I've seen on the wREC in
many a day.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03


"George" wrote in message

> Proper use of the jointer makes a difference. Sight your boards and
> _carefully_ slide that guard out of the way so you can place a low spot on
> the outfeed and trim a high. This is what people who use hand planes do,
> and it really helps.
<much good advice reluctantly snipped>

Dave asks:

>
>I am a noobie, so this may be one of those dumb questions.
>
>How much warping and twisting is acceptable from my local wood
>supplier? I certainly do not mind running it through the joiner and
>planer a couple of times. It seems that if I buy 4/4 or 5/4 lumber,
>at BEST I am getting 3/4" of good material.

You should get 13/16", pretty near, from 4/4 stock, if you're paying premium
prices.

Jointing and planing with lightweight equipment can be a real boring chore.
I've had some wood so bad the ONLY way to get it jointed was to start with the
table saw and a jig, or cut it in half (crosscut) to reduce the arc. But
normally I buy green lumber and season it myself, so I can't complain too much.

Joint one edge but after you JOINT one side (if you can) to get it flat.
Really, you're planing it, but using the jointer to flatten it. Then you can
get a 90 degree square side. With fuzz and bumps, you can't.

Once that is done and the second side is planed parallel, I'd get a good 30
tooth rip blade and let the wood alone after that cut. A glue line blade will
give you all the edge you need. Jointing it again can through it out of
parallel with the already jointed edge.

Charlie Self
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages
of making a disagreeable person keep his distance." Ambrose Bierce

"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." wrote:

> Lower a board onto a jointer? Why?

I've done this to taper a leg such as in a shaker style sofa table. It
is a common practice. The first time might seem scary but once you've
passed that it's really easy. Begin with a light cut, once that's made
you can increase the cut until you're ready to make the final light cut.
You're just establishing an angle with the first cut.

Scott
--
An unkind remark is like a killing frost. No matter how much it warms
up later, the damage remains.

Grade of lumber makes a difference. Less sapwood and knots in select or
better means less drying stress.

Cutting to rough length before jointing makes a difference. You can take
an 8-10' board with a lot of swoop or twist and make it a non-factor by
crosscutting your 2' pieces out of it, leaving the best boards for the long
stuff.

Proper use of the jointer makes a difference. Sight your boards and
_carefully_ slide that guard out of the way so you can place a low spot on
the outfeed and trim a high. This is what people who use hand planes do,
and it really helps.

Finally, you don't need a finished surface to feed your thickness planer.
As long as the board will feed flat, run it. Then you can take advantage of
things like disregarding an unplaned edge if you don't need the width. In
any case, not screwing around looking for a surface on the jointer will give
you an extra pass in your planer.

Also helps to have a hand plane, winding sticks, and a bit of instruction on
how to use it, so you can knock off the worst before you even begin
surfacing on the jointer.

"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am a noobie, so this may be one of those dumb questions.
>
> How much warping and twisting is acceptable from my local wood
> supplier? I certainly do not mind running it through the joiner and
> planer a couple of times. It seems that if I buy 4/4 or 5/4 lumber,
> at BEST I am getting 3/4" of good material.
>
> I try to get the straightest pieces available, but still have to
> joint/plane quite a few times. Usually 4-5 times on joiner, then at
> least that many times on planer. I have Delta X5 joiner, Delta 13"
> planer. Experiences with b.e. maple, h. maple and cherry. I joint
> one edge and one flat side, rip to width, joint ripped edge and plane
> other flat edge.
>
> Is this par for the course and I am just whining, or should I look for
> another supplier?
>
> Drowning in sawdust, Dave

May or may not be labeled. May or may not be properly labeled.

Check the hardwood grading criteria at
http://www.tsiwood.com/lumbergrading.htm

In reality, if you see more than one knot in an 8' board, or more than 10%
4" boards, you're pretty much down to #1 common, the lowest grade you can
rely on to have furniture lengths available without really searching through
your stack. Only that or higher is worth storing under controlled
circumstances, IMHO.

"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> One last question, should the grade of the lumber be labeled, or will
> I need to ask.
>
> FYI. This place has a large stock of cherry and were selling at $3.60
> bf. Again, end product was very nice.
>
> d

Redundancy, all right. Short pieces need those two-handed pushblocks. If
only the kids would use 'em.

Last kid I kicked out was on his third dangerous attempt before I lost my
patience. I do both IA and EMS, but I don't really care to mix 'em. If you
can't help others because some moron is bound and determined to hurt
himself....

"David E. Penner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Don't assume that your hand will be pushed back. As a rather dumb
> know-it-all teen-ager (yeah, I know, that's redundant) I made the mistake
> of trying to joint a too short piece of wood. Too much pressure on the
> front led to immediate kickback. The board flew out of my hand, but my
> hand kept moving forward; after all I HAD been pushing the board forward.
> The result--I've been a half finger short for the last 30 years.

However, with any semblance of intelligence, you lay the board on top of the
guard, then, while holding the part of the board which will rest on the
outfeed table lightly to same with your block, you slide the guard out of
the way from under it, never revealing the cutters.

For jointing short stock, or even surfacing, a two-handed push block (like a
plane with a heel to hook the aft edge) will allow full control of both
direction and, as it is able to butt into it, the guard.


"Patrick Olguin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Keith Carlson" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
> > Patrick, maybe I'm dense, but I'm trying to understand your point about
> the
> > guard.
> > Do you really mean that the kickback is *caused* by the guard not being
> > used? Or that the hand diving into the cutter is because the guard's
off?
>
> You're not dense. I just didn't offer a decent illustration ;).
>
> Two typical ways to lose fingers in a jointer -
>
> 1. You're holding the guard open to lower a board onto it, and you're
> leaning a bit towards the cutter with the rear hand (most likely right).
> The board kicks back, and since you haven't let go of the guard yet, the
> hand that was once holding the board goes into the exposed cutter head.
>
> 2. You're jointing a short board, and it won't quite work with push blocks
> and the guard, so you eschew the push blocks. Board kicks back and
> disappears behind you while your hand goes into the cutter head.
>
> Pretty much short boards and a power jointer don't go well together.
Plus,
> it's really easy to flatten a small board with a hand plane, irrespective
of
> one's view on Zen and the art of hand tools.
>
> O'Deen
>
>

"Patrick Olguin" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > However, with any semblance of intelligence, you lay the board on top of
> the
> > guard, then, while holding the part of the board which will rest on the
> > outfeed table lightly to same with your block, you slide the guard out of
> > the way from under it, never revealing the cutters.
>
> Ok, I can see that. It just really gives me, personally, the heebeegeebees.
> I'll attribute it to my own jointer issues.
>
> Note - intelligence in the shop is greatly reduced by fatigue, hunger and
> deadlines.
>
> Back to the main topic - if you're shopping at one of those hardwood
> boutiques, you ought to be able to carefully hand-select your boards. I
> know I always do, and I've never had a problem. I carefully restack
> everything, and if a questioning employee comes around, I remark how
> beautfiul the board (I'm rejecting) is, but note that it's just not quite
> what I'm looking for. It helps if you're loading close to every other board
> on your cart, as opposed to rifling the whole stack.
>
> O'Deen
I'd like to add that the re-stacking is the important part. I bought
a bunch of 4/4 birch from MacBeath's in Berkeley once, and they gave
me a $.50/b.f. discount because I restacked the pile so neatly. That's
what he said anyways. The clerk was very appreciative & remarked how
often people rifle through the piles & just leave them.

A construction lumber yard in our area was a different story. A guy
just about ripped me to pieces when I was rejecting some 2x6 redwood
because it had gouges taken out where the shipping straps cut into
them. He was pissed! I still stacked everything nice & neat when
done, but that didn't matter to this guy.

"George:

I also agree, great advice. I been taught that you
need to remove the crown from boards prior to getting
a good straight edge.

Dave: place the board, edge up on your joiner. See
if it rocks, if so, you have a crown in the board, you
got to remove it. The suggestion is to drop the crown
part on the joiner, carefully!!!, and take a small pass
until it stops rocking, then take a final pass. I think
a good handplane would also help this and perhaps might
be safer, tho, I've done the joiner procedure and still
have all ten digits.

Also, Dave, check the face of your boards. Make sure
you've don't have any warp or cup in them. Again,
place the board on your joiner, face side down, and
check to see if it rocks by pressing the back. If it
does, you got to lift the back up, slightly, to take
the cup out. I've used slivers as shims in the back
to lift the back, so that the leading front edge
is flat to the table.

I'm sure there's some book somewhere that tells you
all this, but I learned in a woodworking class
taught by an excellant instructor.

What area of the country are you in?

MJ Wallace

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 20:28:39 GMT, B a r r y B u r k e J r .
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Lower a board onto a jointer? Why? I always slide the board across
>the infeed table, across the spinning blades, right onto the outfeed
>table. This is always done with push blocks, unless I'm edge
>jointing. When edge jointing it's quite easy to keep a good, safe
>grip on the work, but even then I never lower a board onto the cutter
>head.

If you have a longish sorta board with a big crook in it, the leading
edge of the board may come at the cutter at too steep an angle to run
the board through all at once. If you ran it through you might chunk
out the leading part of the board.

You may have to set the board down with the cutter beneath the mid
point of the concavity of the board's edge and joint down the trailing
part of the board first.



Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson

Depends on the grade you are buying.

http://muextension.missouri.edu/explore/agguides/forestry/g05052.htm

and

http://www.ahec.org/hardwoods/grading.html

Dave wrote:

> I am a noobie, so this may be one of those dumb questions.
>
> How much warping and twisting is acceptable from my local wood
> supplier? I certainly do not mind running it through the joiner and
> planer a couple of times. It seems that if I buy 4/4 or 5/4 lumber,
> at BEST I am getting 3/4" of good material.
>
> I try to get the straightest pieces available, but still have to
> joint/plane quite a few times. Usually 4-5 times on joiner, then at
> least that many times on planer. I have Delta X5 joiner, Delta 13"
> planer. Experiences with b.e. maple, h. maple and cherry. I joint
> one edge and one flat side, rip to width, joint ripped edge and plane
> other flat edge.
>
> Is this par for the course and I am just whining, or should I look for
> another supplier?
>
> Drowning in sawdust, Dave

"Patrick Olguin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> the most dreaded were those involving a jointer. A kickback from the
> jointer (generally caused by defeating the guard) results in the board
being
> swifty ejected from your hands (they're being used for careful placement
of
> the board, if I'm understanding this correctly), and then your hand can
> easily dive into the rotating cutter.
>
A sobering thought, indeed.

Patrick, maybe I'm dense, but I'm trying to understand your point about the
guard.
Do you really mean that the kickback is *caused* by the guard not being
used? Or that the hand diving into the cutter is because the guard's off?

Assuming it's the latter, I'm also wondering if most blade guards on
jointers return fast enough to protect in that situation. If you were
pushing with your leading hand say 6 inches from the cutterhead, and the
board kicked backward out of your hands, your hands continue moving forward
of their own momentum....... is the guard going to close before your hand
reaches the cutterhead?

I know mine is nowhere near that fast. Could be that I need to pre-tension
the spring more.

[email protected] (Michael Dembroge) wrote in
news:[email protected]:
\
>
> A construction lumber yard in our area was a different story. A guy
> just about ripped me to pieces when I was rejecting some 2x6 redwood
> because it had gouges taken out where the shipping straps cut into
> them. He was pissed! I still stacked everything nice & neat when
> done, but that didn't matter to this guy.



He probably marked you as a noob he could unload bad stuff on when you came
in and was pissed because you weren't.

Screw him. I agree with what others say....if the quality of the
lumber/product is crap or affected by handling, we are under no obligation
whatsoever to just settle for it....

Depends on how big your lumber is, and how fussy you are.
It probably takes fewer passes to get a 2' piece flat than a 10' piece, so
maybe you can cut it rough size first.
Sometimes you can get away with planing the first face (or at least holding
it to 1 or 2 passes on the joiner), rather than joining it. It probably
won't be as flat, but might not matter.
4/4 can get down to 3/4" real fast, but 5/4 shouldn't.

"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am a noobie, so this may be one of those dumb questions.
>
> How much warping and twisting is acceptable from my local wood
> supplier? I certainly do not mind running it through the joiner and
> planer a couple of times. It seems that if I buy 4/4 or 5/4 lumber,
> at BEST I am getting 3/4" of good material.
>
> I try to get the straightest pieces available, but still have to
> joint/plane quite a few times. Usually 4-5 times on joiner, then at
> least that many times on planer. I have Delta X5 joiner, Delta 13"
> planer. Experiences with b.e. maple, h. maple and cherry. I joint
> one edge and one flat side, rip to width, joint ripped edge and plane
> other flat edge.
>
> Is this par for the course and I am just whining, or should I look for
> another supplier?
>
> Drowning in sawdust, Dave

In article <[email protected]>,
"Patrick Olguin" <[email protected]> writes:
> "George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...

snip

>> Proper use of the jointer makes a difference. Sight your boards and
>> _carefully_ slide that guard out of the way so you can place a low spot on
>> the outfeed and trim a high. This is what people who use hand planes do,
>> and it really helps.

snip

> the most dreaded were those involving a jointer. A kickback from the
> jointer (generally caused by defeating the guard) results in the board being
> swifty ejected from your hands (they're being used for careful placement of
> the board, if I'm understanding this correctly), and then your hand can
> easily dive into the rotating cutter.

I don't think that would be "proper use of the jointer." When I've had occassion
to do things as George described, one hand is on the guard, and the other is
placing the board down on the jointer, on the infeed side well down from the
cutterhead. Thus, (geez, I'm sounding like a mathematician) if disaster stuck and
the board was kicked back, that hand would be pushed even farther from the
cutterhead.

I've always thought one of the cardinal rules (if not *the* cardinal rule) of
using a jointer is to never have one's hands over the cutter head.

> This is not some sky-is-falling, hand tool proselytizing flame, just some
> thoughts on using the right tool for the job - safely. And George is

You don't fool me for a minute, you hand tool proselytizer, you. ;)

--
Jeff Thunder
The From: header above is wrong on purpose
To reply, use jeffthunder (at) comcast (dot) net or jthunder (at) math (dot) niu (dot) edu

Patrick Olguin wrote:

> unimaginably devastating. I would have to ponder alternate ideas for a
> month before defeating a functioning guard on a jointer.

Wow... Food for thought. Probably just as well I can't afford and don't
have room for a jointer then.

Though I do hope to acquire a #7 or #8 soon...

> Sometimes the best thing going is a good hand job.

Prevert.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Grade of lumber makes a difference. Less sapwood and knots in select or
> better means less drying stress.
>
> Cutting to rough length before jointing makes a difference. You can take
> an 8-10' board with a lot of swoop or twist and make it a non-factor by
> crosscutting your 2' pieces out of it, leaving the best boards for the
long
> stuff.
>
> Proper use of the jointer makes a difference. Sight your boards and
> _carefully_ slide that guard out of the way so you can place a low spot on
> the outfeed and trim a high. This is what people who use hand planes do,
> and it really helps.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. Then why not just use a jack plane to quickly and safely get
it close enough for the jointer? One of my best pals from high school is an
EMT with more than a decade of experience. His least favorite calls (other
than injured children) were shop accidents. And amongst the shop accidents,
the most dreaded were those involving a jointer. A kickback from the
jointer (generally caused by defeating the guard) results in the board being
swifty ejected from your hands (they're being used for careful placement of
the board, if I'm understanding this correctly), and then your hand can
easily dive into the rotating cutter.

It happens in an instant, and according to my pal, there is a fine spray of
bone, blood, cartilage and flesh that decorates the shop. They really
dislike these accidents because there is nothing to take with them to the ER
for attempted reattachment. Every tool deserves a certain amount of respect
in the shop. The jointer is in a class all by itself. Though it is not #1
in the number of accident occurrences, a bad encounter with one is
unimaginably devastating. I would have to ponder alternate ideas for a
month before defeating a functioning guard on a jointer.

This is not some sky-is-falling, hand tool proselytizing flame, just some
thoughts on using the right tool for the job - safely. And George is
right - it works great!

BTW, an easy way to keep track of the high spots you're working on knocking
down is to scribble lightly with pencil, and then plane off the pencil
marks. You'll be amazed how fast it goes.

Sometimes the best thing going is a good hand job.

O'Deen

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (David E. Penner) writes:
> In article <bIzub.182692$275.589740@attbi_s53>,
> [email protected] (Jeff Thunder) wrote:

[snip]

>> to do things as George described, one hand is on the guard, and the other is
>> placing the board down on the jointer, on the infeed side well down from the

[snip]

> Don't assume that your hand will be pushed back. As a rather dumb
> know-it-all teen-ager (yeah, I know, that's redundant) I made the mistake
> of trying to joint a too short piece of wood. Too much pressure on the
> front led to immediate kickback. The board flew out of my hand, but my
> hand kept moving forward; after all I HAD been pushing the board forward.

Reread what I wrote. I'm not pushing the board forward, so yes, my
hand would be pushed back if the board kicked back when placing
it on the jointer.

As another poster mentioned, one should use pushblocks when face
jointing. Once the board is
on the jointer, you can grab your pushblocks and use them. In
other words, once you're pushing the board forward, you're using
pushblocks.

The point I was trying to make is that it is possible to safely
place the board on the jointer when doing as George described.


--
Jeff Thunder
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
Northern Illinois Univ.
jthunder at math dot niu dot edu

"Keith Carlson" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
> Patrick, maybe I'm dense, but I'm trying to understand your point about
the
> guard.
> Do you really mean that the kickback is *caused* by the guard not being
> used? Or that the hand diving into the cutter is because the guard's off?

You're not dense. I just didn't offer a decent illustration ;).

Two typical ways to lose fingers in a jointer -

1. You're holding the guard open to lower a board onto it, and you're
leaning a bit towards the cutter with the rear hand (most likely right).
The board kicks back, and since you haven't let go of the guard yet, the
hand that was once holding the board goes into the exposed cutter head.

2. You're jointing a short board, and it won't quite work with push blocks
and the guard, so you eschew the push blocks. Board kicks back and
disappears behind you while your hand goes into the cutter head.

Pretty much short boards and a power jointer don't go well together. Plus,
it's really easy to flatten a small board with a hand plane, irrespective of
one's view on Zen and the art of hand tools.

O'Deen

"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> However, with any semblance of intelligence, you lay the board on top of
the
> guard, then, while holding the part of the board which will rest on the
> outfeed table lightly to same with your block, you slide the guard out of
> the way from under it, never revealing the cutters.

Ok, I can see that. It just really gives me, personally, the heebeegeebees.
I'll attribute it to my own jointer issues.

Note - intelligence in the shop is greatly reduced by fatigue, hunger and
deadlines.

Back to the main topic - if you're shopping at one of those hardwood
boutiques, you ought to be able to carefully hand-select your boards. I
know I always do, and I've never had a problem. I carefully restack
everything, and if a questioning employee comes around, I remark how
beautfiul the board (I'm rejecting) is, but note that it's just not quite
what I'm looking for. It helps if you're loading close to every other board
on your cart, as opposed to rifling the whole stack.

O'Deen

Thanks for the great advice!

I think maybe I need to eat some pride and get some instruction. I
guess I figured having the right tools would take care of everything.
While my end products have come out great, I am very slow. Probably
would enjoy it more if I knew what I was doing.

Sounds like a self realization. Ya'll should have fun with that one.

One last question, should the grade of the lumber be labeled, or will
I need to ask.

FYI. This place has a large stock of cherry and were selling at $3.60
bf. Again, end product was very nice.

d

MJ:

Thanks for the tips. I seem to do ok with cupping and crowning. I
have the most trouble with a twisted board. Cannot do anything with a
joiner. I have been taking a piece of melamine, laying the twisted
board on it, shimming the gaps and running through the planer.
Tedious, and I need a hot glue gun for shims, but appears to work.
Does this sound right?


> What area of the country are you in?

Richmond, Va.

dave

In article <bIzub.182692$275.589740@attbi_s53>,
[email protected] (Jeff Thunder) wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Patrick Olguin" <[email protected]> writes:
> > "George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
>
> snip
>
> >> Proper use of the jointer makes a difference. Sight your boards and
> >> _carefully_ slide that guard out of the way so you can place a low spot on
> >> the outfeed and trim a high. This is what people who use hand planes do,
> >> and it really helps.
>
> snip
>
> > the most dreaded were those involving a jointer. A kickback from the
> > jointer (generally caused by defeating the guard) results in the board being
> > swifty ejected from your hands (they're being used for careful placement of
> > the board, if I'm understanding this correctly), and then your hand can
> > easily dive into the rotating cutter.
>
> I don't think that would be "proper use of the jointer." When I've had
occassion
> to do things as George described, one hand is on the guard, and the other is
> placing the board down on the jointer, on the infeed side well down from the
> cutterhead. Thus, (geez, I'm sounding like a mathematician) if disaster
stuck and
> the board was kicked back, that hand would be pushed even farther from the
> cutterhead.
>
> I've always thought one of the cardinal rules (if not *the* cardinal rule) of
> using a jointer is to never have one's hands over the cutter head.



SNIP



Don't assume that your hand will be pushed back. As a rather dumb
know-it-all teen-ager (yeah, I know, that's redundant) I made the mistake
of trying to joint a too short piece of wood. Too much pressure on the
front led to immediate kickback. The board flew out of my hand, but my
hand kept moving forward; after all I HAD been pushing the board forward.
The result--I've been a half finger short for the last 30 years.


David

ps. By the way, stubby fingers don't impress the women.

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 11:36:32 -0800, "Patrick Olguin"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>1. You're holding the guard open to lower a board onto it, and you're
>leaning a bit towards the cutter with the rear hand (most likely right).
>The board kicks back, and since you haven't let go of the guard yet, the
>hand that was once holding the board goes into the exposed cutter head.

I'm still lost. <G>

Lower a board onto a jointer? Why? I always slide the board across
the infeed table, across the spinning blades, right onto the outfeed
table. This is always done with push blocks, unless I'm edge
jointing. When edge jointing it's quite easy to keep a good, safe
grip on the work, but even then I never lower a board onto the cutter
head.

>2. You're jointing a short board, and it won't quite work with push blocks
>and the guard, so you eschew the push blocks. Board kicks back and
>disappears behind you while your hand goes into the cutter head.

If it's too short for blocks, it's too small for the tool.

Do people do this stuff on purpose? Is there some technique I'm
missing?

Barry

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

> First step is to enjoy what you are doing. My projects are no where near
> the quality of the pieces I see posted by the guys here. OTOH, my
> audience truly appreciates what I make for them so that is all I need to
> keep me going and learning and getting better at it.

The trick is never show your work to someone who's a better woodworker than
you are... :)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> I think maybe I need to eat some pride and get some instruction. I
> guess I figured having the right tools would take care of everything.
> While my end products have come out great, I am very slow. Probably
> would enjoy it more if I knew what I was doing.

You may want to consider taking a course at an Adult Ed or Community
College, or a place like Woodcraft. There are a lot of things you can
figure out or learn by watching a tape or TV show. Then there are things
that you can work on for a couple of hours and just not get it. Then someone
with experience can show you how in just a coupe of minutes.

First step is to enjoy what you are doing. My projects are no where near
the quality of the pieces I see posted by the guys here. OTOH, my audience
truly appreciates what I make for them so that is all I need to keep me
going and learning and getting better at it.

Second step is to learn how to fix your mistakes. If a piece is too short,
just cut it again and again until it is long enough.
Ed
[email protected]
http://pages.cthome.net/edhome
.

On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 14:30:21 -0800, "Patrick Olguin"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>And amongst the shop accidents,
>the most dreaded were those involving a jointer. A kickback from the
>jointer (generally caused by defeating the guard) results in the board being
>swifty ejected from your hands (they're being used for careful placement of
>the board, if I'm understanding this correctly), and then your hand can
>easily dive into the rotating cutter.

Ya' know, I've never even THOUGHT of face jointing without push
blocks. <G>

I guess I'm weird.

Barry

On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 16:10:06 -0500, Tom Watson
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>You may have to set the board down with the cutter beneath the mid
>point of the concavity of the board's edge and joint down the trailing
>part of the board first.

Ok, that would make sense.

The reason why it didn't initially make sense to me is that I'll
usually save a longish board with a big crook for short parts.

Thanks,
Barry

Patrick Olguin wrote:

> beautfiul the board (I'm rejecting) is, but note that it's just not quite
> what I'm looking for. It helps if you're loading close to every other
> board on your cart, as opposed to rifling the whole stack.

Considering how much trouble I have coping with even marginal geometry
problems in a board, and considering how much more they're charging
compared to those mail order places, I make no apologies for getting out
and looking at every single piece of whatever lumber in the entire rack if
I have to. Usually takes me a couple hours to buy a few bf of lumber, but
now that I know what to avoid in the first place, I'm having much better
success making it into stuff that doesn't do bad things.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

I agree with George. But I must confess that I go against the grain of
tradition. Most of my projects require widths greater than 6" and I have a
6" jointer. So I plane both surfaces in the surface planer. This works well
unless you have really twisted or warped pieces. So cut them to rough length
first. (If they are still too warped/twisted be more careful in selection or
change suppliers) You should easily get 3/4" finished dimensions from 4/4
stock. Then you can joint an edge before proceeding to the tablesaw.

Joe...


"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Grade of lumber makes a difference. Less sapwood and knots in select or
> better means less drying stress.
>
> Cutting to rough length before jointing makes a difference. You can take
> an 8-10' board with a lot of swoop or twist and make it a non-factor by
> crosscutting your 2' pieces out of it, leaving the best boards for the
long
> stuff.
>
> Proper use of the jointer makes a difference. Sight your boards and
> _carefully_ slide that guard out of the way so you can place a low spot on
> the outfeed and trim a high. This is what people who use hand planes do,
> and it really helps.
>
> Finally, you don't need a finished surface to feed your thickness planer.
> As long as the board will feed flat, run it. Then you can take advantage
of
> things like disregarding an unplaned edge if you don't need the width.
In
> any case, not screwing around looking for a surface on the jointer will
give
> you an extra pass in your planer.
>
> Also helps to have a hand plane, winding sticks, and a bit of instruction
on
> how to use it, so you can knock off the worst before you even begin
> surfacing on the jointer.
>
> "Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I am a noobie, so this may be one of those dumb questions.
> >
> > How much warping and twisting is acceptable from my local wood
> > supplier? I certainly do not mind running it through the joiner and
> > planer a couple of times. It seems that if I buy 4/4 or 5/4 lumber,
> > at BEST I am getting 3/4" of good material.
> >
> > I try to get the straightest pieces available, but still have to
> > joint/plane quite a few times. Usually 4-5 times on joiner, then at
> > least that many times on planer. I have Delta X5 joiner, Delta 13"
> > planer. Experiences with b.e. maple, h. maple and cherry. I joint
> > one edge and one flat side, rip to width, joint ripped edge and plane
> > other flat edge.
> >
> > Is this par for the course and I am just whining, or should I look for
> > another supplier?
> >
> > Drowning in sawdust, Dave
>
>