Haven't been here in a while, really busy. I'm installing crown molding in a
customers house that has uneven ceilings, way out of level. The crown is
coming off kitchen cabinets and mounting to ceiling and cabinets. When I
line up the molding there is a pretty large gap at one end. If I close the
gap then the molding does not sit level on the cabinet face. How do you
guys deal with this problem? I've told the customer that if I drop the
crown down a bit then the gap is less noticeable and runs the total length
of the cabinet. They don't like that saying dust will build up on top of
cabinet and these folks are dust freaks. They are willing to live with the
gap but I can't stand the way it looks. I can just imagine a friend of
theirs comes over and asks, who did the crown molding cause they did a shit
job.
Thanks for any advice!!
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
evodawg wrote:
> Haven't been here in a while, really busy. I'm installing crown molding in a
> customers house that has uneven ceilings, way out of level. The crown is
> coming off kitchen cabinets and mounting to ceiling and cabinets. When I
> line up the molding there is a pretty large gap at one end. If I close the
> gap then the molding does not sit level on the cabinet face. How do you
> guys deal with this problem? I've told the customer that if I drop the
> crown down a bit then the gap is less noticeable and runs the total length
> of the cabinet. They don't like that saying dust will build up on top of
> cabinet and these folks are dust freaks. They are willing to live with the
> gap but I can't stand the way it looks. I can just imagine a friend of
> theirs comes over and asks, who did the crown molding cause they did a shit
> job.
> Thanks for any advice!!
How much of a gap? If it's relatively small caulk should work.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
On 08/27/2009 08:18 AM, evodawg wrote:
> The crown is
> coming off kitchen cabinets and mounting to ceiling and cabinets. When I
> line up the molding there is a pretty large gap at one end. If I close the
> gap then the molding does not sit level on the cabinet face. How do you
> guys deal with this problem?
Now's your chance to offer them custom-made molding tapered to match the
amount of out-of-square!
Is re-hanging the cabinets parallel to the ceiling an option?
Alternately, take a look at what this guy did:
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base_images/zp/level_cabinets.jpg
(taken from the discussion at
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Level_Cabinets_in.html)
Chris
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:18:45 -0700, evodawg <[email protected]>
wrote:
> When I
>line up the molding there is a pretty large gap at one end. If I close the
>gap then the molding does not sit level on the cabinet face. How do you
>guys deal with this problem?
We've dealt with this problem quite a few times.
Normally most crowns have a top detail that sorta comes straight down
from the ceiling and has a little height to it. One method (if your
gap is not too large) is to take the crown to the jointer or table saw
or even a belt sander and try to remove material from that top edge on
the end opposite the gap. This might involve just a little removal
from one end or a gradual removal over a longer length to close a gap
on the other end. You can try to mark the piece(s) by temporarily
installing the piece with the good end against the ceiling and
maintain the same reveal on the cabinets. Then you can scribe the top
face of the crown. Before marking it, use your scribe to check (both
ends) to see if you can remove enough material from that top detail
without getting below it into the curved detail of the crown.
This will make the cabinets look correct but will show the different
reveal (on the crown detail) at the ceiling.
Good luck, I feel your pain.
Mike O.
On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:18:45 -0700, evodawg <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Haven't been here in a while, really busy. I'm installing crown molding in a
>customers house that has uneven ceilings, way out of level. The crown is
>coming off kitchen cabinets and mounting to ceiling and cabinets. When I
>line up the molding there is a pretty large gap at one end. If I close the
>gap then the molding does not sit level on the cabinet face. How do you
>guys deal with this problem? I've told the customer that if I drop the
>crown down a bit then the gap is less noticeable and runs the total length
>of the cabinet. They don't like that saying dust will build up on top of
>cabinet and these folks are dust freaks. They are willing to live with the
>gap but I can't stand the way it looks. I can just imagine a friend of
>theirs comes over and asks, who did the crown molding cause they did a shit
>job.
>Thanks for any advice!!
I'd slightly change the molding to fit, trimming or adding filler. It
is easier to install crown in layers, but that's not always the case.
If the molding is painted you have the luxury of caulk. Other times
you have top float a wall or ceiling with drywall compound. Crown
must be done right--If the job is a botched, the mistakes will be
there for all to see.
>>
>> Good luck, I feel your pain.
>>
>> Mike O.
>
> Thought about scribing but the gap is pretty large and I'm sure it will
> end
> up cutting out the detail. I showed her the problem and she seems to be
> able to live with a gap, he on the other hand wants perfection. Told them
> I
> would do my best. This freakin guy is an engineer and really anal. She's
> cool and told him to keep out of her kitchen. Think I'll try scribing and
> splitting the difference like you do when installing doors and out of
> plumb
> door openings.
>
> yeah it is painful not to mention time consuming!!!!
>
> --
Well, they don't agree with each other, which means no matter what you do,
you'll be wrong by someone's opinion. Do what she says, it's her kitchen.
I also feel your pain. That's a tough spot to be in.
jc
Bill wrote:
<snipped>
>How is using caulking different than
> using spackling
> compound (which I am more familiar with) or drywall compound?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
>
Spackle dries faster than drywall compound. Both are brittle when dry.
Caulk usually remains flexible when it's dry allowing for expansion
and contraction.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
evodawg wrote:
> Haven't been here in a while, really busy. I'm installing crown molding in a
> customers house that has uneven ceilings, way out of level. The crown is
> coming off kitchen cabinets and mounting to ceiling and cabinets. When I
> line up the molding there is a pretty large gap at one end. If I close the
> gap then the molding does not sit level on the cabinet face. How do you
> guys deal with this problem? I've told the customer that if I drop the
> crown down a bit then the gap is less noticeable and runs the total length
> of the cabinet. They don't like that saying dust will build up on top of
> cabinet and these folks are dust freaks. They are willing to live with the
> gap but I can't stand the way it looks. I can just imagine a friend of
> theirs comes over and asks, who did the crown molding cause they did a shit
> job.
> Thanks for any advice!!
Typically one tries to use a blocker and mount against it if the
expedient of leaving a space gap isn't acceptable.
Depending on the amount, you may need to taper it to offset at least a
portion of the out-of-level amount so the moulding still runs nearly
parallel to the cabinet face.
The idea is to make up the out-of-level against the ceiling rather than
closer to the fixed, hard visual line of the cabinet opening/doors...
--
dpb wrote:
> evodawg wrote:
>> Haven't been here in a while, really busy. I'm installing crown molding
>> in a customers house that has uneven ceilings, way out of level. The
>> crown is coming off kitchen cabinets and mounting to ceiling and
>> cabinets. When I line up the molding there is a pretty large gap at one
>> end. If I close the gap then the molding does not sit level on the
>> cabinet face. How do you guys deal with this problem? I've told the
>> customer that if I drop the crown down a bit then the gap is less
>> noticeable and runs the total length
>> of the cabinet. They don't like that saying dust will build up on top of
>> cabinet and these folks are dust freaks. They are willing to live with
>> the gap but I can't stand the way it looks. I can just imagine a friend
>> of theirs comes over and asks, who did the crown molding cause they did a
>> shit job.
>> Thanks for any advice!!
>
> Typically one tries to use a blocker and mount against it if the
> expedient of leaving a space gap isn't acceptable.
>
> Depending on the amount, you may need to taper it to offset at least a
> portion of the out-of-level amount so the moulding still runs nearly
> parallel to the cabinet face.
>
> The idea is to make up the out-of-level against the ceiling rather than
> closer to the fixed, hard visual line of the cabinet opening/doors...
>
> --
I have added a spacer or nailer to the top of the cabinets since the top of
cabinets and crown would not reach the ceiling. The spacer will be visible
and is now part of the cabinet, meaning same species and finished to match
cabinets and crown. Actually spacers that would have been used on side of
cabinets where they meet the drywall wall.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
Nova wrote:
> evodawg wrote:
>> Haven't been here in a while, really busy. I'm installing crown molding
>> in a customers house that has uneven ceilings, way out of level. The
>> crown is coming off kitchen cabinets and mounting to ceiling and
>> cabinets. When I line up the molding there is a pretty large gap at one
>> end. If I close the gap then the molding does not sit level on the
>> cabinet face. How do you guys deal with this problem? I've told the
>> customer that if I drop the crown down a bit then the gap is less
>> noticeable and runs the total length
>> of the cabinet. They don't like that saying dust will build up on top of
>> cabinet and these folks are dust freaks. They are willing to live with
>> the gap but I can't stand the way it looks. I can just imagine a friend
>> of theirs comes over and asks, who did the crown molding cause they did a
>> shit job.
>> Thanks for any advice!!
>
> How much of a gap? If it's relatively small caulk should work.
>
Its not that small of a gap. And it's Maple Crown.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
Chris Friesen wrote:
> On 08/27/2009 08:18 AM, evodawg wrote:
>> The crown is
>> coming off kitchen cabinets and mounting to ceiling and cabinets. When I
>> line up the molding there is a pretty large gap at one end. If I close
>> the gap then the molding does not sit level on the cabinet face. How do
>> you guys deal with this problem?
>
> Now's your chance to offer them custom-made molding tapered to match the
> amount of out-of-square!
>
> Is re-hanging the cabinets parallel to the ceiling an option?
> Alternately, take a look at what this guy did:
That's not an option. The Cabinets are square and plumb. The ceiling is
messed up. Damn framers and drywallers. I'll take a look..
>
> http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base_images/zp/level_cabinets.jpg
>
> (taken from the discussion at
> http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Level_Cabinets_in.html)
>
> Chris
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
Mike O. wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2009 07:18:45 -0700, evodawg <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> When I
>>line up the molding there is a pretty large gap at one end. If I close the
>>gap then the molding does not sit level on the cabinet face. How do you
>>guys deal with this problem?
>
>
> We've dealt with this problem quite a few times.
> Normally most crowns have a top detail that sorta comes straight down
> from the ceiling and has a little height to it. One method (if your
> gap is not too large) is to take the crown to the jointer or table saw
> or even a belt sander and try to remove material from that top edge on
> the end opposite the gap. This might involve just a little removal
> from one end or a gradual removal over a longer length to close a gap
> on the other end. You can try to mark the piece(s) by temporarily
> installing the piece with the good end against the ceiling and
> maintain the same reveal on the cabinets. Then you can scribe the top
> face of the crown. Before marking it, use your scribe to check (both
> ends) to see if you can remove enough material from that top detail
> without getting below it into the curved detail of the crown.
> This will make the cabinets look correct but will show the different
> reveal (on the crown detail) at the ceiling.
>
> Good luck, I feel your pain.
>
> Mike O.
Thought about scribing but the gap is pretty large and I'm sure it will end
up cutting out the detail. I showed her the problem and she seems to be
able to live with a gap, he on the other hand wants perfection. Told them I
would do my best. This freakin guy is an engineer and really anal. She's
cool and told him to keep out of her kitchen. Think I'll try scribing and
splitting the difference like you do when installing doors and out of plumb
door openings.
yeah it is painful not to mention time consuming!!!!
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
"Dave in Houston" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Joe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Well, they don't agree with each other, which means no matter what you
>> do, you'll be wrong by someone's opinion. Do what she says, it's her
>> kitchen.
>>
>> I also feel your pain. That's a tough spot to be in.
>
> Several years ago we were doing extensive interior work for a couple of
> estranged, middle-aged alcoholics (think separate bedrooms) complete with
> empty wine bottles under the furniture and a pantry with a couple of dozen
> empty Scotch bottles stacked in the back. She wanted all this work; he
> didn't.
> Mrs. Alcoholic wanted crown on the mansard ceiling in the master
> bedroom. Hard enough to make look good but the ceiling where it met the
> walls was like a frozen ocean. I ended up putting spacer blocks in
> various places which evened out the up-and-down of the crown but which
> left noticeable shadow lines in several places behind it. Mrs. A
> insisted on the crown despite our repeated warnings that there would be
> visible issues and true to form after it was finished she was unhappy in
> the extreme, a classic no-win situation. "It just looks whore-able
> (Southern, Louisiana accent)."
> The whole story about this project is that 9/11 occurred just a few
> days into the job, a harbinger of things to come. Mrs. A. wrote us [not
> one but] two hot checks for the initial draw (our fault; she had the money
> in the bank when she agreed to the job). That's when Mr. A. saved the day
> by covering both checks and [lo and behold] it became evident soon
> thereafter they were sharing the same bed. At the end of the job Mr. A,
> now the financier, stiffed us the last $2800 for about two months making
> one bogus accusation after another (overspray on his Caddy?).
> After that, we got a lot more picky about our clientele ("We don't
> think we're a good fit for this job, ma'am.").
>
> Dave in Houston
Sounds like Mr. and Mrs. "A" deserve each other.
evodawg wrote:
...
> Thought about scribing but the gap is pretty large and I'm sure it will end
> up cutting out the detail. ...
> ... Think I'll try scribing and
> splitting the difference like you do when installing doors and out of plumb
> door openings.
...
Another choice if you don't like the bed mounted on the ceiling w/
appropriate taper as previously suggested (which is by far the easiest
solution) is to add a small finger mould (miniature quarter or fingerlip
or similar) to fill the gap at the top of the crown. In that case you
may want to set the crown just a little lower at the low end. The extra
breaklines disguise the offset.
Use backer blocking for the crown to register the angle correctly and
provide good nailing surface but doing that makes the installation
easier in any case....
--
"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'd slightly change the molding to fit, trimming or adding filler. It
> is easier to install crown in layers, but that's not always the case.
> If the molding is painted you have the luxury of caulk. Other times
> you have top float a wall or ceiling with drywall compound. Crown
> must be done right--If the job is a botched, the mistakes will be
> there for all to see.
On the house my wife and I just bought, I noticed there are about 3 places
where
crown molding pieces meet unevenly, maybe up to 1/16" (max) difference
in their height at the joints. Being a neophyte, It occurred to
me that I might chisel and sand the joints, but caulk sounds like a nice
possibility
(along with some chisel work at the high spots which are flat). My
intuition would
suggest perhaps making a crown molding-shaped applicator from a coffee can
lid,
or similar. The molding is painted. How is using caulking different than
using spackling
compound (which I am more familiar with) or drywall compound?
Thanks,
Bill
dpb wrote:
> evodawg wrote:
> ...
>> Thought about scribing but the gap is pretty large and I'm sure it will
>> end up cutting out the detail. ...
>> ... Think I'll try scribing and
>> splitting the difference like you do when installing doors and out of
>> plumb door openings.
>
> ...
>
> Another choice if you don't like the bed mounted on the ceiling w/
> appropriate taper as previously suggested (which is by far the easiest
> solution) is to add a small finger mould (miniature quarter or fingerlip
> or similar) to fill the gap at the top of the crown. In that case you
> may want to set the crown just a little lower at the low end. The extra
> breaklines disguise the offset.
>
> Use backer blocking for the crown to register the angle correctly and
> provide good nailing surface but doing that makes the installation
> easier in any case....
>
> --
I installed it today and the one wall was pretty bad, but to my surprise the
other wall came out perfect. I split the difference and it looks ok. I did
shave a bit out of the middle without destroying the profile. The customer
loves it, I'm a little more critical of my work, and in my book it's just
ok. The other side looks great! I know how crown is suppose to look. It
seems they are more worried what the miter joint looks like. Those are not
the problem. I did use backers so had good nailing surface... Its been
awhile since I installed crown from cabinet top to ceiling.
Thanks to all for the suggestions.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
Phisherman wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:55:45 -0400, "Bill" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> I'd slightly change the molding to fit, trimming or adding filler. It
>>> is easier to install crown in layers, but that's not always the case.
>>> If the molding is painted you have the luxury of caulk. Other times
>>> you have top float a wall or ceiling with drywall compound. Crown
>>> must be done right--If the job is a botched, the mistakes will be
>>> there for all to see.
>>
>>On the house my wife and I just bought, I noticed there are about 3 places
>>where
>>crown molding pieces meet unevenly, maybe up to 1/16" (max) difference
>>in their height at the joints. Being a neophyte, It occurred to
>>me that I might chisel and sand the joints, but caulk sounds like a nice
>>possibility
>>(along with some chisel work at the high spots which are flat). My
>>intuition would
>>suggest perhaps making a crown molding-shaped applicator from a coffee can
>>lid,
>>or similar. The molding is painted. How is using caulking different than
>>using spackling
>>compound (which I am more familiar with) or drywall compound?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Bill
>>
>
> Recently I installed a 6" Colonial baseboard (which I made) with a
> 1/8" flat top that sets against the wall. One wall was quite concave,
> too concave to bend the baseboard around it. Caulk would make the
> 1/8" thumbnail 1/4" wide at certain points making it look bad.
> Instead, I opted to float the drywall so that the baseboard top looked
> 1/8" all along the baseboard. It's a judgment call from the trim
> carpenter on what will look best. Inside a closet, or behind a water
> heater tank, it doesn't matter much. But your molding, expecially
> crown, should look excellent (and show no gaps in 5 years) when you
> first walk into the room. Don't think "I'll fix this gap later with
> caulk," but use it as a last resort. When installed properly crown
> molding can add value to your home, for about $600 labor for an
> average room.
That would work for me if the ceiling hadn't already been puddy coated,
textured and painted. Wow, 600.00 where do you get that kind of money for
an average room? I usually get anywhere from 300 to 500.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 22:55:45 -0400, "Bill" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I'd slightly change the molding to fit, trimming or adding filler. It
>> is easier to install crown in layers, but that's not always the case.
>> If the molding is painted you have the luxury of caulk. Other times
>> you have top float a wall or ceiling with drywall compound. Crown
>> must be done right--If the job is a botched, the mistakes will be
>> there for all to see.
>
>On the house my wife and I just bought, I noticed there are about 3 places
>where
>crown molding pieces meet unevenly, maybe up to 1/16" (max) difference
>in their height at the joints. Being a neophyte, It occurred to
>me that I might chisel and sand the joints, but caulk sounds like a nice
>possibility
>(along with some chisel work at the high spots which are flat). My
>intuition would
>suggest perhaps making a crown molding-shaped applicator from a coffee can
>lid,
>or similar. The molding is painted. How is using caulking different than
>using spackling
>compound (which I am more familiar with) or drywall compound?
>
>Thanks,
>Bill
>
Recently I installed a 6" Colonial baseboard (which I made) with a
1/8" flat top that sets against the wall. One wall was quite concave,
too concave to bend the baseboard around it. Caulk would make the
1/8" thumbnail 1/4" wide at certain points making it look bad.
Instead, I opted to float the drywall so that the baseboard top looked
1/8" all along the baseboard. It's a judgment call from the trim
carpenter on what will look best. Inside a closet, or behind a water
heater tank, it doesn't matter much. But your molding, expecially
crown, should look excellent (and show no gaps in 5 years) when you
first walk into the room. Don't think "I'll fix this gap later with
caulk," but use it as a last resort. When installed properly crown
molding can add value to your home, for about $600 labor for an
average room.
"Joe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Well, they don't agree with each other, which means no matter what you do,
> you'll be wrong by someone's opinion. Do what she says, it's her kitchen.
>
> I also feel your pain. That's a tough spot to be in.
Several years ago we were doing extensive interior work for a couple of
estranged, middle-aged alcoholics (think separate bedrooms) complete with
empty wine bottles under the furniture and a pantry with a couple of dozen
empty Scotch bottles stacked in the back. She wanted all this work; he
didn't.
Mrs. Alcoholic wanted crown on the mansard ceiling in the master
bedroom. Hard enough to make look good but the ceiling where it met the
walls was like a frozen ocean. I ended up putting spacer blocks in various
places which evened out the up-and-down of the crown but which left
noticeable shadow lines in several places behind it. Mrs. A insisted on
the crown despite our repeated warnings that there would be visible issues
and true to form after it was finished she was unhappy in the extreme, a
classic no-win situation. "It just looks whore-able (Southern, Louisiana
accent)."
The whole story about this project is that 9/11 occurred just a few days
into the job, a harbinger of things to come. Mrs. A. wrote us [not one but]
two hot checks for the initial draw (our fault; she had the money in the
bank when she agreed to the job). That's when Mr. A. saved the day by
covering both checks and [lo and behold] it became evident soon thereafter
they were sharing the same bed. At the end of the job Mr. A, now the
financier, stiffed us the last $2800 for about two months making one bogus
accusation after another (overspray on his Caddy?).
After that, we got a lot more picky about our clientele ("We don't think
we're a good fit for this job, ma'am.").
Dave in Houston