Henry Leigh wrote:
>1. It seems a plunge router can do everything a fixed base router can
>do. Then why people need fixed base router?
My first "real" router was a plunge but for me it was a case
of finding some good used fixed bases for reasonable prices.
Can't pass up a deal. My "final" fixed base buy was a new
machine. I bought the big silver and black one for my
anodized aluminum (aluminium David) router lift.
>2. What's the advantage of variable speed router? Do most routers have
>variable speed?
Big bits = slower speed. Small bits = faster speed.
>3. Any comments about DeWalt DW616?
It's yellow and it makes the bit go 'round. There are
others that are red, silver, gray (grey David), blue and
green. Try and stay in that/those color (colour David)
range(s) and you'll more than likely be good. Never buy a
brown router.
UA100
I have to (sort of) agree. Every time I see these "75 piece" router bit
sets for $150 (or whatever), I can only think that the hobbyists they
are selling to will NEVER use them all - maybe just a few at best. And
of course, they will never get complaints since the bits won't be used.
A nice set sure looks great in the "workshop" tho (I'm talking router
bits!).
I buy as I go. So far so good, but I still have trouble passing up a
bargain (still talking bits).
:-)
Lou
In article <[email protected]>, DamnYankee
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Some advice on router bits:
>
> By *only* what you need and buy best quality bits you can afford - like
> Whiteside (USA made and in my opinion are the best bits made), Amana, or
> Freud.
>
> Avoid purchasing asian bits or HSS (high speed steel) bits.
If you do woodworking long enough, you start to realize that it's not
so much the tools as the patience/time/skill that you are willing to
invest and/or learn.
Even tho I periodically add to my power tool arsenal, once I have the
most coveted latest tool, it ultimately winds up with me in the
workshop asking myself if I want to take time to do it right or take a
shortcut and get it done "good enough".
The longer you are in the shop, the more you want to get it done right
(within your skills) than you are to get it done quickly. It's sort of
a guilt thing with yourself.
I wrestle with this with every project.
Half of the time I win.
Lou
In article <msQkd.653$fc.243@trnddc06>, Mark Jerde
<[email protected]> wrote:
> brian lanning wrote:
> > "George" <george@least> wrote in message
> > news:<[email protected]>...
> >> It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
> >
> > You've never used the delta bench top saw.
>
> With jigs, sleds, blade stabilizers and a carbide blade mine was functional.
> ;-)
>
> -- Mark
>
>
Some data on 616/618 at the http://www.patwarner.com/dw618pk.html link.
*******************************
> 1. It seems a plunge router can do everything a fixed base router can
> do. Then why people need fixed base router?
>
> 2. What's the advantage of variable speed router? Do most routers have
> variable speed?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>For tolerance to bad and large diameter cutters<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> 3. Any comments about DeWalt DW616?>>>>>>>>>>>Good tool<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> Thanks!
>
> -H
Mark Jerde wrote:
> brian lanning wrote:
>> "George" <george@least> wrote in message
>> news:<[email protected]>...
>>> It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
>>
>> You've never used the delta bench top saw.
>
> With jigs, sleds, blade stabilizers and a carbide blade mine was
> functional. ;-)
Sort of.
I'll take my 40 acres of cast iron though. I never found a buyer for that
thing, so I wound up giving it to Goodwill.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
http://rosegarden.sourceforge.net/tutorial/
Most important to me, the new electronic feedback types have that soft
start!
"Larry Bud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > 2. What's the advantage of variable speed router? Do most routers have
> > variable speed?
>
> To expand on what someone else wrote, the larger the diameter bit, the
> faster the cutting edge is moving at the same RPM as a smaller bit.
> So to get the effective speed the same, you slow the RPMs down with
> the larger bit.
If you follow this philosophy, be prepared to compromise your design to use
what's on hand or wait a week or more for _the_ bit you need.
"DamnYankee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Some advice on router bits:
>
> By *only* what you need and buy best quality bits you can afford - like
> Whiteside (USA made and in my opinion are the best bits made), Amana, or
> Freud.
It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
"Junk" is a relative term. A set of serviceable bits - not the best - will
make the cuts to produce the hundred feet of picture frames you'll do every
five years just fine. Plus, when you need a 1/4" cove, you won't have to
pay for FedEx overnight.
"DamnYankee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Girouard wrote:
>
> > My philosophy would be that a novice woodworker should buy a cheap-ish
> > set to begin with and then, as he gets more familiar with his tool
> > (I'm talking bits, here) and the demands of his projects, he should
> > replace the cheap bits he uses most with similar bits of good quality.
> > Also at that point any additions to the basic set should be of good
> > quality. FWIW.
> >
> > FoggyTown
>
> Personally, I don't have money to waste to purchase junk and have to
> upgrade sooner rather than later. I save and buy the best item I can
> afford.
>
> I guess I take the same tact as I do with my guitar gear: great sound
> inspires great playing, and likewise great tools inspire great
> woodworking.
> 2. What's the advantage of variable speed router? Do most routers have
> variable speed?
To expand on what someone else wrote, the larger the diameter bit, the
faster the cutting edge is moving at the same RPM as a smaller bit.
So to get the effective speed the same, you slow the RPMs down with
the larger bit.
Fixed base can be lighter, cheaper, smaller, and the bit shouldn't get
out of alignment with the base as can happen with a plunge type.
Variable speed is for slowing down the bit to a safe speed (larger bits).
David
Henry Leigh wrote:
> 1. It seems a plunge router can do everything a fixed base router can
> do. Then why people need fixed base router?
>
> 2. What's the advantage of variable speed router? Do most routers have
> variable speed?
>
> 3. Any comments about DeWalt DW616?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -H
[email protected] (Henry Leigh) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> 1. It seems a plunge router can do everything a fixed base router can
> do. Then why people need fixed base router?
I have to dual base porter cable. The fixed base makes for a lighter
router. Also, When using dovetail bits with a collar (leigh d4)
hitting the release lever on a plunge base would be bad. I think the
D handles probably offer better control also.
> 2. What's the advantage of variable speed router? Do most routers have
> variable speed?
In router tables, it's nice to be able to slow down the router on
things like raised panel sets.
> 3. Any comments about DeWalt DW616?
No experience, sorry. I like the porter cable very much though.
brian
"George" <george@least> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
You've never used the delta bench top saw.
brian
George wrote:
> It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
I have to strongly disagree with this -- with the way you're
using it, that is.
Several points to be made:
- A good craftsman *does have* good tools -- that's partly why
they would never blame their tools.
- A good craftsman would know whether a tool is right for the
job, a good-enough quality to do the job right. If it's not,
then they wouldn't use it -- conclusion: they would never
have the need to blame the tools.
- If for some reason a good craftsman *does use* cheap/bad
tools, the result will be bad (worse than it could/should
be, at least). And it's the tool to be blamed (the guy is
to be blamed only in the sense that if he were good, he
would have known that the tool was bad, and would have
refused to use it in the first place)
So, what I'm saying is that your statement can not be used
as an argument to say that cheap/bad tools is ok as long as
the person using them is good.
Good woodworking requires a logical AND of two conditions:
good tools being used by a good craftsman -- BOTH confitions
must hold.
If a good craftsman is somehow *forced* to work with bad tools
(or tools in bad shape, such as blunt blades), then of course
the end result will be bad, and OF COURSE the craftsman will
be right to blame the tools (again, if they are somehow
*forced* to use the particular tool -- which is something that
in general doesn't happen; if the tool is not good, a good
craftsman would reject it and not do the particular job until
having the right/good tool for it)
Related examples/analogies:
Have Wladimir Horowitz or Maurizio Pollini play with a cheap
electronic piano/synthesizer -- the result will be, of course,
infinitely better than if I play with the best Steinway piano
ever made; but still, their interpretations will sound like
crap, even though they're the most amazingly good pianists.
(of course, coming back to one of my points above -- they
would flat-out refuse to play with a cheap piano!)
Have the absolutely best professional sports photographer and
hand them a cheap point&shoot camera, or a camera with cheap
plastic lenses, or with no shutter speed control... See if
they can take any good shot during some high-profile sports
event (true action sports like Basketball, Soccer, Volleyball....
Not golf or chess ;-))
Carlos
--
Depends on what you're making/doing with the bit. I've kept around a
number of HSS rabbeting bits which I grind to suit myself for flutes and
such. I couldn't as readily do this with carbide and if the run is not
too great or the amound removed too great, they'll outlast me.
bob g.
George wrote:
> If you follow this philosophy, be prepared to compromise your design to use
> what's on hand or wait a week or more for _the_ bit you need.
>
> "DamnYankee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Some advice on router bits:
>>
>>By *only* what you need and buy best quality bits you can afford - like
>>Whiteside (USA made and in my opinion are the best bits made), Amana, or
>>Freud.
>
>
>
Henry Leigh wrote:
> 1. It seems a plunge router can do everything a fixed base router can
> do. Then why people need fixed base router?
>
> 2. What's the advantage of variable speed router? Do most routers have
> variable speed?
>
> 3. Any comments about DeWalt DW616?
Do not even think about it -- if you want to stick with
DeWalt (which is not an unsound policy for routers), do
go with the 618 -- DW618PK, I believe is the kit that
comes with fixed base + plunge base.
Variable-speed often (always?) goes hand-in-hand with
soft-start, which is, IMHO, an extremely important and
MUST-HAVE feature; basically, the router increases the
speed continuously from 0 to whatever setting -- that
avoids a strong kick when the router is starting, which
makes it tougher to handle for you (which in turn means
more dangerous), and it implies increased fatigue for
the mechanical parts (which leads to lower lifetime of
the tool).
I have a Bosch with about the same features as the
DeWalt 618PK (617EVSPK, I think), and would never give
it up for a fixed-speed router.
HTH,
Carlos
--
loutent <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<071120042034285425%[email protected]>...
> I have to (sort of) agree. Every time I see these "75 piece" router bit
> sets for $150 (or whatever), I can only think that the hobbyists they
> are selling to will NEVER use them all - maybe just a few at best. And
> of course, they will never get complaints since the bits won't be used.
>
> A nice set sure looks great in the "workshop" tho (I'm talking router
> bits!).
>
> I buy as I go. So far so good, but I still have trouble passing up a
> bargain (still talking bits).
>
> :-)
>
> Lou
>
> In article <[email protected]>, DamnYankee
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Some advice on router bits:
> >
> > By *only* what you need and buy best quality bits you can afford - like
> > Whiteside (USA made and in my opinion are the best bits made), Amana, or
> > Freud.
> >
> > Avoid purchasing asian bits or HSS (high speed steel) bits.
My philosophy would be that a novice woodworker should buy a cheap-ish
set to begin with and then, as he gets more familiar with his tool
(I'm talking bits, here) and the demands of his projects, he should
replace the cheap bits he uses most with similar bits of good quality.
Also at that point any additions to the basic set should be of good
quality. FWIW.
FoggyTown
If you don't, don't be afraid to buy a cheap router.
> There are some usable cheap routers about, and a small lightweight
> router is still useful, even when you've bought a bigger one in the
> future.
>
> --
> Smert' spamionam
Most of this discussion is about a single router. Eventually plan on owning
more than one. Not that a big plunge router can't do it all (I have one of
those). But I, personally, have no desire to freehand that much power and
weight (9 lbs, 12 amps, and 20,000 rpm). It just makes me nervous and I
don't think I'm a safety zealot. The big boy stays mounted in a table.
I have a little fixed base trim router for hand work (laminate trimming,
small profiles and hinge mortising).
Smaller may mean less power, but it's alot more comfortable to use.
On 4 Nov 2004 21:14:12 -0800, [email protected] (Henry Leigh)
wrote:
>1. It seems a plunge router can do everything a fixed base router can
>do. Then why people need fixed base router?
They don't - fixed base are unknown in Europe.
I imagine that history is the explanation. The first routers were
fixed and appeared in America. By the time routers came to Europe,
they'd become plungeable. Each side stuck with what was familiar.
Fixed base have a minor advantage of stability, and the "breaking in
two" design makes bit changing easier. Really though there are three
sorts of router; fixed base, plunge, and plunge with a good screwed
depth adjuster (most better plungers). A "free plunge" is indeed an
awkward beast to use. Getting a good plunge router with a screw to
control depth though gives you all the advantages of plunging, but
nearly all the benefits of a fixed base too.
I wouldn't buy a plunging router that didn't have a real depth
adjuster (like my Freud 2000). The old Elu / Trend adjuster is _not_ a
credible alternative.
>2. What's the advantage of variable speed router? Do most routers have
>variable speed?
I'd regard this as essential for any new router, and there are very
few that don't have it. If you want to use a larger bit, then it's
essential.
For cut quality and avoiding burning you don't care too much about the
rotational speed, it's the linear edge speed that matters. Simple
geometry shows that this increases with both rotation speed and
diameter, so slow down those big bits.
There's also a stability issue that goes up with the _square_ of the
size of the bits. Personally I just don't use big bits freehand, I run
them in the table.
Some variable speed controllers also have a "soft start" that's a
useful way to avoid jerking on first switching on. It can improve the
accuracy (or the "Oops!" rate) of your work.
There are two sorts of useful router out there - cheap ones and good
ones. Good ones turn out to be most useful mounted in a table. If you
have the money, buy a good router and get something that works well in
a table mount. If you don't, don't be afraid to buy a cheap router.
There are some usable cheap routers about, and a small lightweight
router is still useful, even when you've bought a bigger one in the
future.
--
Smert' spamionam
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 19:11:24 -0500, Carlos Moreno
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Do not even think about it
What's wrong with the 616 ?
Henry Leigh wrote:
> 1. It seems a plunge router can do everything a fixed base router can
> do. Then why people need fixed base router?
Personal preference; fixed basers tend to be a bit lighter. The brute
3+ hp fixed basers are best for the routah table (tho I converted my
Hitachi M12V from a plunge to a fixed for my router table).
> 2. What's the advantage of variable speed router? Do most routers have
> variable speed?
Speaking for myself, I need the variable speed for various bits (i.e.,
the large bits for cabinet work require slow speeds); also, I find if
using slower speeds with small bits tend to put burn marks on some types
of woods (probably my technique).
> 3. Any comments about DeWalt DW616?
Never tried it but not a big fan of DeWalt tools. I prefer Milwaukee &
Porter Cable tools. I love my Hitachi M12V routers for both hand and
table routing. I have been drooling over Milwaukee's new 3-1/2 horser
but neither of my M12V's will die (SWMBO says no Milwaukee til a Hitachi
goes to the tool junk yard).
Of course Porter Cable is the crown champion of routers - the 7518 is a
favorite among many router table users, but they are pricey.
Good luck and ensure you wear goggles & a good quality leather apron.
Don't forget to unplug your router EACH TIME you change bits...you were
born with 10 fingers and ya want to keep 'em! Like saws, these can be
VERY dangerous machines, so keep your radar up at all times when your
router is plugged in!
On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:45:33 -0500, "Stephen M"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>If you don't, don't be afraid to buy a cheap router.
>> There are some usable cheap routers about, and a small lightweight
>> router is still useful, even when you've bought a bigger one in the
>> future.
>>
>> --
>> Smert' spamionam
>
>Most of this discussion is about a single router. Eventually plan on owning
>more than one. Not that a big plunge router can't do it all (I have one of
>those). But I, personally, have no desire to freehand that much power and
>weight (9 lbs, 12 amps, and 20,000 rpm). It just makes me nervous and I
>don't think I'm a safety zealot. The big boy stays mounted in a table.
>
>I have a little fixed base trim router for hand work (laminate trimming,
>small profiles and hinge mortising).
>
>Smaller may mean less power, but it's alot more comfortable to use.
>
>
I've been looking for a router, since mine never leaves the router
table... I notice that the sales trend now is for the basic router to
come with both fixed and plunge base... interesting...
brian lanning wrote:
> "George" <george@least> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
>> It's a poor craftsman who blames his tools.
>
> You've never used the delta bench top saw.
With jigs, sleds, blade stabilizers and a carbide blade mine was functional.
;-)
-- Mark
Andy Dingley wrote:
>>Do not even think about it
>
> What's wrong with the 616 ?
It's a toy -- a good toy, but a toy. Having the option
of the 618 for not a lot more money (I think the 618 was
selling for $220, and the 616 for 180 or 190), it seems
IMHO ridiculous to get a router with no servo-controlled
variable speed and soft-start.
At least that's my point of view.
Carlos
--
On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 00:14:12 -0500, Henry Leigh wrote:
> 3. Any comments about DeWalt DW616?
I just purchased a used DW616PK (fixed + plunge kit) a few weeks ago, and
have used it with the plunge base a few times. It is my first router, and
I find it to be solid. It has plenty of power to easily cut the cherry
I'm currently working with. The depth adjustment is easy to use, and
accurate enough my my needs (I don't know how it compares to other
routers). Changing from the fixed to the plunge base is also trivial - it
takes less than a minute. I may be mistaken on this, but I think that the
bases are exactly the same for the 616 and the 618. The 618 is a beefed
up version of the 616 (1/2 more horsepower) and has variable speed. The
618 is not very much more expensive than the 616, but it did put it out of
my budget. I've read that 3rd party variable speed power adapters are
available for pretty cheap, and will probably go that route if in the
future I need to slow things down.
The PC equivalent of the DW616/DW618 are also supposed to be very good.
I'm pleased with my purchase of the dewalt though.
Chad
On 4 Nov 2004 21:14:12 -0800, [email protected] (Henry Leigh)
wrote:
>1. It seems a plunge router can do everything a fixed base router can
>do. Then why people need fixed base router?
I had a job a few years ago making formica countertops- the fixed base
router was great for trimming the edges flush, and didn't require
messing around with a plunging system. It all just depends on what
you're using the tool for.
>2. What's the advantage of variable speed router? Do most routers have
>variable speed?
Mine doesn't, but would imagine that a lower speed might reduce
burning in some woods.
>3. Any comments about DeWalt DW616?
>
>Thanks!
>
>-H
[email protected] (Henry Leigh) writes:
> 1. It seems a plunge router can do everything a fixed base router can
> do. Then why people need fixed base router?
Advantages of fixed: handles lower, more accuracy.
> 2. What's the advantage of variable speed router? Do most routers have
> variable speed?
Larger routers do, smaller ones usually don't. You can buy one for
$20, it's handy when you want to avoid burning when you need to go
slowly. For larger routers, it's required for larger bits, which are
unsafe at higher RPMs.
Mike Girouard wrote:
> My philosophy would be that a novice woodworker should buy a cheap-ish
> set to begin with and then, as he gets more familiar with his tool
> (I'm talking bits, here) and the demands of his projects, he should
> replace the cheap bits he uses most with similar bits of good quality.
> Also at that point any additions to the basic set should be of good
> quality. FWIW.
>
> FoggyTown
Personally, I don't have money to waste to purchase junk and have to
upgrade sooner rather than later. I save and buy the best item I can
afford.
I guess I take the same tact as I do with my guitar gear: great sound
inspires great playing, and likewise great tools inspire great
woodworking.