Pissed off at Home Depot. (Rant)

"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:aItge.1506$R13.82@trndny09...
>
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:design-
>>
>
>> I'm approaching this from their viewpoint. Those kind of rules are
>> guide-lines. Those 'rules' are not like a road-sign for State Troopers
>> to hide behind looking for their quota. " Excuse me sir, does that sign
>> say SPEED LIMIT 56?"
>>
>> Turns out that is a moot point as their advertised policy states 90 days.
>> http://tinyurl.com/co38p
>
> Since the policy is 90 days, they should accommodate you. A store as
> large as HD just can't have people at the bottom end interpreting policy.
> It could make one hell of a mess. I think tose rules are pretty much
> roles, not just guidlines.
>

Did you know that Southwest Airlines, one of the VERY few airlines to be
making money these days, allows ANY customer-contact employee to "interpret"
company policy on the spot if required in order to satisfy a customer? They
only require their employees to use good judgement...their _own_ good
judgement. And those are some pretty low-paid employees...most probably
making less than HD employees.

And Southwest makes one shit-pot-full of money in the toughest industry
(currently) around.

I agree with Robatoy...these aren't rules. In a well-run company, they are
guidelines.

In article <[email protected]>, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:

> In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
> through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
> things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
> are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
> most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.

Two rules:

1) Don't sweat the small shit.

2) It's ALL small shit.

djb

--
~ Stay Calm... Be Brave... Wait for the Signs ~
------------------------------------------------------
One site: <http://www.balderstone.ca>
The other site, with ww links<http://www.woodenwabbits.com>

In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Turns out that is a moot point as their advertised policy states 90 days.
> http://tinyurl.com/co38p

So take it back to the store and remind them of their policy. If that
fails, their Canadian toll-free customer service number is on their web
site.

For that matter, call them first and have them call the store.

You got an answer you didn't like at the store, after screwing up
yourself, then bitched there was no email address when you could have
picked up the phone and talked to somebody at corporate who may have
been able to set things right.

Call them.

--
~ Stay Calm... Be Brave... Wait for the Signs ~
------------------------------------------------------
One site: <http://www.balderstone.ca>
The other site, with ww links<http://www.woodenwabbits.com>

In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:

> or as a lady friend of mine likes to say: "Don't sweat the petty things,
> but DO pet the sweaty things.."

Can I have her phone number?

;-)

--
~ Stay Calm... Be Brave... Wait for the Signs ~
------------------------------------------------------
One site: <http://www.balderstone.ca>
The other site, with ww links<http://www.woodenwabbits.com>

Amen. Companies deal with all kinds of fraud yet everybody thinks they
should never be suspected. Heck, they offered to have it repaired.
Plus, we can't see how "used" it was. Perhaps they thought, my God,
this guy used the heck out of this machine, is finished with it, and
now wants us to eat it.

Hey Robatoy:

Calm down. I am a contractor here in Texas, and with few alternatives,
I have to shop at HD for a lot of my every day stuff. Liquid nails,
paint, sealer, a few boards here and there, plumbing, etc.

I used to scream like a mashed cat when I would go through what you
have, but the reality of it all is something you have already hit on.

They HONESTLY don't care. Shame on you for not checking out a POS like
B&D the first chance you got, but I DO understand that you buy
something like that and it does take a while for you to get it to the
job and try it, and a few more days to get by the store to return it.

They are a giant corporation. One size has to fit all. All rules must
be obseved the same for all shapes, sizes, sexes, races, etc. for fear
or litigation. Or worse, to have some asst. manager nitwit start
"interpreting" the rules as he or she sees fit.

You have to realize the nature of the beast you are dealing with.
They are what they are. They are a giant corporation moving units
through the system. They could be selling farm implements for all they
care.

You must have an entirely different type of HD up there in CA. Why in
the world did you think they gave a crap in the first place?

I have read many of your posts and don't believe that you still believe
in the Easter bunny or Santa ;), so why the big orange box fairy?

Don't shop there. I don't unless I am trapped into it. They are not
worth getting my blood pressure on boil because they are too stupid in
most cases to even know that they <should> care.

As a CONTRACTOR (read: constant, repeat, daily business) I am on your
side. As a realist, I think you are taking this much to personally.
After 24 years in business I will not boycott a supplier that could
save me time (= money) when they are so unconscious they simply don't
even notice, and wouldn't care if they did.

Robert

Home Depot and the other "boxes" must be doing something valuable to
have grown so big so fast. It takes customers to do so.

I personally love having a Lowes and Home Depot. They replaces the
local overpriced mediocre service hardware and lumber store.

I've returned numerous things to Home Depot and never ever had a
problem. I simply cannot identify with your experience.

Rob, I feel your pain. I am a firm believer in customer service. Yes,
I can understand that a-rule's-a-rule, but what happened to you was
really not good customer service. This is the sort of thing that leads
to the "buy another one and use the receipt to return the defective one
then return the second one for store credit" scam that we saw in an
earlier post.

My biggest frustration at HD is the lack of knowledge -- knowledge
about product, knowledge about application, knowledge about customer
service.

In this case they didn't even give you correct information about the
policy. Did you take it up with the store manager or head office? You
might be more apt to get some 'discretionary judgement' at that level,
even if it does take up some of your valuable time.

And thanks for this lesson. I'll never make another purchase and let
it sit around in a box.

Steve

Speaks volumes for the manufacturers, not the retailer. Also speaks
volumes about me -- getting the wrong thing.

Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> Upscale wrote:
> > "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> >>know how they manage it, but you can walk in there and ask a fresh
faced,
> >>new HS grad if they've got a 7mm Ratrafratz Bolt and get told to go
to
> >>aisle 4, 2nd cabinet on the left, 3rd row, 2nd drawer from the left
- and
> >>*find* it right where they told you to look! Also the kind of place
where
> >>you can walk in with a problem you don't know how to solve and walk
out
> >>with a solution and the materials to do the job.
> >
> >
> > There aren't too many places like that around anymore, but I do
have to
> > concede that the Home Depot I go to has many older employees and
most of
> > them have the experience with stuff to be able to help me out when
I'm
> > having a problem. The greatest difficulty that I experience is
getting them
> > to understand what I want to buy.
>
> The problem is that all the posters are right, at least some of the
> time. Oft times the person you talk to at HD or elsewhere hasn't a
clue
> and other times you might just as well be talking to the person who
> invented the "left-handed framistan" you happen to be looking for.
>
> The problem is you NEVER KNOW which one you've drawn that day.
>
> It's kind of like those old logic puzzles that begin...
>
> "You talk to two guards. One never lies and one will never speak the

> truth. How..."
>
> If you don't know the answer yourself you'll likely walk out of there

> with a nice new MAPP gas torch so you can fix the gas tank on your
> lawnmower<g>

I doubt I'll ever forget, in Lowe's (not HD), standing near the
Customer Service desk in the new store. Two guys come in asking where
the brick mold was placed. The woman sent them to the plumbing
department.

"Mr Fixit eh" <[email protected]> writes:

>My biggest frustration at HD is the lack of knowledge -- knowledge
>about product, knowledge about application, knowledge about customer
>service.

Do you really expect someone at Home Depot to know something about the
every one of the thousands of items they carry?

I certainly don't expect that.

Brian Elfert

In article <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I love some of the old guys who tell you, with a straight face no less, that
> they have never heard of Lee Valley.:)

There's an old guy in the tool section of the local HD that told me he
had a copy of the LV catalog in his locker, and that he'd go get it if
I wanted to wait. I told him I had the current one at home and not to
bother.

This was a couple of years back, and I don't recall what I was looking
for at the time. I probably did end up ordering from LV, though.

djb

--
~ Stay Calm... Be Brave... Wait for the Signs ~
------------------------------------------------------
One site: <http://www.balderstone.ca>
The other site, with ww links<http://www.woodenwabbits.com>

On Wed, 11 May 2005 14:21:12 -0400, "Gary" <[email protected]>
wrote:


>
>Too bad you didn't shop at Rona. Bambam reported that you can purchase
>expensive purchase tools there, thow away the carton they come in, use the
>tool for a day or two, and still get a full refund. (see "A Borg story with
>a happy ending") Of course "it helps .. to.. know the guys in Tools".
>
><g>


That's not quite what I reported. You and a few others who have
trouble with reading comprehension have twisted it (exaggerated the
useage, focussed unduly on knowing the people" -- enough to turn a
light story dark.

That said, you are right that there is a sharp contrast between
Robatoy's experience with Home Depot and mine with Rona.

About five years ago, I approached Home Depot's Contractor's Desk and
asked what the much advertised "ASK ABOUT OUR CONTRACTOR'S SPECIAL
PRIVILEGES." offered contractors. "Retail prices plus next day
delivery."

I don't know what their return or adjustment policies are, I don't
know whether or not they are reasonable or knowledgeable. I do know
they don't want my business -- their market is retail consumers,
DIY's without much knowledge.

I am not Rona's prime market either -- but they will offer modest
discounts on everything but raw lumber and tools... and they are
knowledgeable.

Last year, I spent $160 at HD (four lock boxes). I spent just over
$15,000 at Rona.

My suggestion to Robatoy is to move on -- he's spending hundreds in
time on a fifty dollar deal.

My suggestion to those who feel that Rona giving me (and presumeably
others) a break must mean a higher cost to you is that you give your
heads a shake.

Ken

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message

> I take the thing home and leave it in the box till the time came I could
> use that feature;

Error. What would it take to plug it in and pull the trigger?



>
> I took it back to HD with my complaint.....they didn't want to refund
> the 98 Can$ (About 70 US$), they wanted to send it for repairs...because
> I was 10 days 'overdue' of the 30-day allowable return period. I was
> even willing to replace it with a small belt-sander from another make
> and pay a little extra if I had to...but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

If 10 days is OK, then 12 is too. If 12 days is OK, then 18 is too. If 18
days is OK, then 30 is too. Why not just make it 5 years and be done with
it. The 18 year old at the return desk does not have much discretion in
interpeting corporate policy.

>
> They want to hang a business relationship on 98 dollars or a '10-day'
> technicality...then so be it.

Posted policy, not a technicality.
I'm surprised at you. With all your experience, you know B&D is low end,
you knew the HD policy was 30 days, you've been in business for a long time,
now you want special treatment. I really think you have to take
responsibility for some of this for not checking it beforehand. They did
offer to send it for repairs.

Sorry for the lack of sympathy, but I just happen to disagree on this.

On Wed, 11 May 2005 21:39:54 -0600, the inscrutable Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca> spake:

>In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> or as a lady friend of mine likes to say: "Don't sweat the petty things,
>> but DO pet the sweaty things.."
>
>Can I have her phone number?
>
>;-)

Me, too. I'm working up a sweat just thinking about it.


------
We're born hungry, wet, 'n naked, and it gets worse from there.
- http://diversify.com Website Application Programming -

On Thu, 12 May 2005 00:46:59 GMT, "Mark Cooper"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Ever heard of a guarantee of merchantability?

Of course - if the OP had bought one of the self-immolating "Firestorm"
drills from B&D, he'd have a point.

But who's arguing that the tool here isn't "of merchantable quality" (as
my local laws phrase it) ? The question is whether the buyer has an
entitlement to replace it simply because they don't like it (for
whatever reason) rather than arguing the stronger claim that the tool
is not at all merchantable.

Lew,
That's nice. The problem, however, is that the knowledgeable 'local
merchant' is becoming an extinct species.

There are several reasons why . . . and I think you already know most of
them.

Regards,
Ron Magen
Backyard Boatshop

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
SNIP
> I am returning to the local merchants for most of my non marine stuff.
>
> SNIP . . . needed a 2", foil faced, rigid insulation board.
> Next was a lumber yard that has been around since 1884.
>
> They had what I needed and the price was in line.
>
> Nuf said.
>
> Lew

On Wed, 11 May 2005 21:52:33 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...

>>
>> The money? I use tubes of adhesive that cost more than that sander.
>> Rolls of tape that I use cost more than that sander.
>
>Wow, I am impressed.
>
>I have never seen tubes of adhesive or rolls of tape that big. ;)

Depends on the product.

I have a relative that uses $115 a gallon paint.

Of course, it encapsulates lead... <G>

Barry

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,

> I wasn't looking for sympathy, I know where to find that in the
> dictionary. I find you're a level-headed guy in your other posts here.
> There are likely many who will disagree with this. *I*, on the other
> hand, expect to be treated a bit more like I treat MY customers....
> maybe that's my mistake, but I will never compromise that.

Y'know, there are tens of thousands of other "special" people out there who
deserve the best, or think they do. For every customer you have, they have
ten thousand. They cater to the 9,999 who shop there for price and
availability.

I think it was your mistake on several levels, so eat the bucks. Like it's
the first or last time you'll make a poor decision?

There's the law and there's lawyers. In jail, they're all lawyers, ranting
against the law. You don't belong in that company.

Robatoy wrote:
>
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
...
> >
> > P.S: A man who "drops that kind of money" there usually doesn't buy
> > from the B&D line.
>
> LOL... ...

Actually, what appears as a significant amount of money from your
perspective is probably totally insignificant when looking at their
total volume...I ran into that opinion (and on occasion hold it myself
when not thinking of the big picture) when working w/ vendors in
previous life. Even significant expenditures can and do pale when
compared to actual sales volume of large retailers/vendors.

I recall once <many> years ago going into a car dealership w/ which I
had dealt for some time at a model year end thinking it would be
reasonable to expect them to want to move old models. When I asked a
member of the family who owned the dealership something on the order of
"Have anything you need to get rid of quickly?" his answer was "Yeah,
<all> of 'em!". Great lesson!!!

Yes, I have experienced buying someone else's returns. I expect brand new
sealed in the box when I buy at full price. If I have a return, it goes back
pristine, with everything the way I found it. If I return a defective item,
I write with a felt marker the words "defective" right on the side of the
item, so that they cannot sell it to someone else, or back to me.

"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >I repeat that I had NO expectations from B&D beyond the
> >'less-than-medium-duty' market niche they cater to. That's still no
> >excuse for a non-functioning device to be on their shelves, something
> >they are ultimately accountable for.
>
> No excuse, certainly - but a possible (maybe even *probable*) explanation:
> that wasn't a new tool. Somebody *else* already used it and returned it,
and
> the guys at the HD return desk just packed it up and put it back on the
shelf.
> Wouldn't be the first time that's happened...
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
> And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

Larry Jaques wrote:
> In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
> through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
> things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
> are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
> most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.
>
> Thanks for the reminder this morning; my daily lesson.

I hit 20 in July as well.

--
Odinn
RCOS #7

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2005 16:56:07 -0400, the inscrutable Odinn
> <[email protected]> spake:
>
>
>>Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>>In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
>>>through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
>>>things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
>>>are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
>>>most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.
>>>
>>>Thanks for the reminder this morning; my daily lesson.
>>
>>I hit 20 in July as well.
>
>
> Congrats, fellow old timer! I hope to survive to July 8th, my actual
> AA bday.
>

Actually, my AA bday is June 15, but I've combined it with my NA of July
20. Makes it a lot easier :)

--
Odinn
RCOS #7

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 12 May 2005 16:56:07 -0400, the inscrutable Odinn
> <[email protected]> spake:
>
>
>>Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>>In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
>>>through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
>>>things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
>>>are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
>>>most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.
>>>
>>>Thanks for the reminder this morning; my daily lesson.
>>
>>I hit 20 in July as well.
>
>
> Congrats, fellow old timer! I hope to survive to July 8th, my actual
> AA bday.
>
Oh yes, and congrats to you as well. I'm sure you'll make it, it's only
a few weeks away :)

--
Odinn
RCOS #7

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Odinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 12 May 2005 16:56:07 -0400, the inscrutable Odinn
>>><[email protected]> spake:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
>>>>>through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
>>>>>things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
>>>>>are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
>>>>>most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks for the reminder this morning; my daily lesson.
>>>>
>>>>I hit 20 in July as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>Congrats, fellow old timer! I hope to survive to July 8th, my actual
>>>AA bday.
>>>
>>
>>Actually, my AA bday is June 15, but I've combined it with my NA of July
>>20. Makes it a lot easier :)
>>
>
>
> All right you guys - why don't you get a "room"... to (mis)use a popular
> phrase. Congrats to both of you. June 30 makes 9 years for me. It's
> really been a pretty easy 9 years all things considered. It was harder to
> quit smoking than it was to quit drinking.
>

I quit smoking for 5 years, was around some friends who were smoking, I
lit one, had it half smoked before I realized what I had done. It was a
very quick eye opener as to how insidious the disease of addiction is.

--
Odinn
RCOS #7

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 to reply

Joe wrote:
> So you're pissed off at HD. STOW IT!! Now lets get on with it and talk
> about woodworking!!
>
>
> "Odinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>>"Odinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 12 May 2005 16:56:07 -0400, the inscrutable Odinn
>>>>><[email protected]> spake:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
>>>>>>>through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
>>>>>>>things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
>>>>>>>are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
>>>>>>>most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanks for the reminder this morning; my daily lesson.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I hit 20 in July as well.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Congrats, fellow old timer! I hope to survive to July 8th, my actual
>>>>>AA bday.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Actually, my AA bday is June 15, but I've combined it with my NA of July
>>>>20. Makes it a lot easier :)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>All right you guys - why don't you get a "room"... to (mis)use a
>
> popular
>
>>>phrase. Congrats to both of you. June 30 makes 9 years for me. It's
>>>really been a pretty easy 9 years all things considered. It was harder
>
> to
>
>>>quit smoking than it was to quit drinking.
>>>
>>
>>I quit smoking for 5 years, was around some friends who were smoking, I
>>lit one, had it half smoked before I realized what I had done. It was a
>>very quick eye opener as to how insidious the disease of addiction is.
>>

What, in what you quoted, says anything about being pissed off at Home
Depot, other than the topic. You need to learn how to read before you
reply. You also need to learn how to bottom post.

Sheesh, some people don't have any brains at all.

--
Odinn
RCOS #7

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton

Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
'03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
'97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org

rot13 [email protected] to reply

"Robatoy" wrote in message

> big-box bastards. They simple don't give a rat's ass. It opened my eyes.
> And THAT is why I'm done with them. Sure they have been conveniently
> located for my needs, but that only accounts for so much.

Over time you do notice one consistent, overriding philosophy: they are
there solely for the convenience and financial gratification of the
employees and management, PERIOD

Basically, I wouldn't walk into a HD if the company did not have a
commercial charge account and the money was coming out of my pocket. The
bastards even tried to kill me with a forklift last week, then attempted to
blame it on me ... damn good thing I am relatively nimble for my age. That
particular store "manager" won't forget me for a long time.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/06/05

"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> We had a Lowes open a couple years ago and they are pretty much the same
as
> HD. In either place I find myself giving lessons in whatever I'm looking
> for, if it is more technical than a bag of dirt.

But that's the way it is (mostly) with the drive for profits that many
retail companies use. They hire employees for as low a wage as possible, but
with a modicum level of knowledge. Naturally, those low wage employees are
going to know only so much.

I remember once going into a low end graphics store to have a map scanned.
Even though I didn't own a scanner and had never used their model of scanner
before, I was the one that had to show the employee how to use the scanner.
Didn't stop them though from charge me $6 for using it.

On Wed, 11 May 2005 15:16:04 GMT, "Max"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> "Mr Fixit eh" <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>>My biggest frustration at HD is the lack of knowledge -- knowledge
>>>about product, knowledge about application, knowledge about customer
>>>service.
>>
>> Do you really expect someone at Home Depot to know something about the
>> every one of the thousands of items they carry?
>>
>> I certainly don't expect that.
>>
>> Brian Elfert
>
>But would it be too much to expect that the employee assigned to a
>particular department know something about the merchandise in that
>department?
>As someone said before, "It ain't rocket science". I think it's more of a
>"don't give a damn" attitude.
>
>Max D.
>
Having been a Sears employee (salesman, Tool manager, etc.) for 15
years and then being laid off because of corporate downsizing, I can
tell you this. The employees at the Big Boxes (sears included) don't
give a damn because the companies don't give a damn about them. It
all about the bottom line for the shareholders.

Brian
DET Luger "She was onto something, I think that's what got her killed
The Capt "You don't think it was the bullets?"

"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 10 May 2005 21:03:06 -0400, Robatoy <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>I was minding my own business some weeks ago, when I saw this nifty
>>cheap belt-sander by Black & Decker.
>
> Never buy "nifty" tools.
>
>
> Sorry, but no sympathy here.
>
> B&D make crap. You know this.
>
> They're a shop, not a rental place. Now in my book, '30 days and return
> for "I don't like this"' is pretty generous anyway. But there's no other
> way to know if the thing is any good, so I guess that's their cost
> downside against the upside of having a self-service warehouse instead
> of a shop with real staff.
>
> But the rules are pretty plain. _30_days_. A whole month. You don't
> need that long to work out if the thing is tolerably "fit for purpose",
> you can do that in an afternoon. So for a returns policy that's already
> pretty generous, you're just taking the piss here.


Ever heard of a guarantee of merchantability?

If not, read-up on it. By the looks of your pissy post, you have a lot to
learn.

On Wed, 11 May 2005 13:28:40 -0400, Robatoy <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do.

Dunno about that. Last time I tried using three lefts on someone I
darn near ended up in jail.

--
"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

On Wed, 11 May 2005 12:46:27 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>>Too bad you didn't shop at Rona. Bambam reported that you can purchase
>>expensive purchase tools there, thow away the carton they come in, use the
>>tool for a day or two, and still get a full refund. (see "A Borg story with
>>a happy ending") Of course "it helps .. to.. know the guys in Tools".
>>
>Only a fool buys a tool, or anything with a warranty, from Home Depot.

Why is that, again? Two of my most heavily used and abused tools
(DeWalt cordless drill and circular saw) came from the HD, and there
has been no problem with either of them. If there had been, I imagine
DeWalt would have taken care of it. When a tool has got a warranty,
the manufacturer takes care of it- the store just has an
exchange/return policy. I still think it's a whole lot better to get
tools from the locals, but it's not as though the chains open up the
boxes and deliberately wreck the tools inside. They don't know or
care what is in any given box- if something is wrong, blame the
manufacturer.






Aut inveniam viam aut faciam

"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> We had a Lowes open a couple years ago and they are pretty much the
>> same
> as
>> HD. In either place I find myself giving lessons in whatever I'm
>> looking for, if it is more technical than a bag of dirt.
>
> But that's the way it is (mostly) with the drive for profits that many
> retail companies use. They hire employees for as low a wage as
> possible, but with a modicum level of knowledge. Naturally, those low
> wage employees are going to know only so much.
>
> I remember once going into a low end graphics store to have a map
> scanned. Even though I didn't own a scanner and had never used their
> model of scanner before, I was the one that had to show the employee
> how to use the scanner. Didn't stop them though from charge me $6 for
> using it.

My last lesson was knife hinges. I didn't really expect to find them in
HD, but I was there for some PVC pipe and thought I'd save myself a trip
somewhere else. Instead I spent 10 minutes explaining and drawing knife
hinges for three of them and still had to make the trip somewhere else.
Now I just ask if they know where I can find something. If they say they
know, I look there first. If it's not there or they say they don't know,
I wander around until I run out of patience or convince myself that they
don't have what I'm looking for.

That said, one of the local HDs had a guy in a wheel chair who could tell
you to within a foot where to find anything in the store and where to buy
it if they didn't carry it. I always hunted him out, but they seem to
have disappeared him.

The place I try to shop at most often is an Ace Hardware where Every
employee seems to know what everything is and where they keep it. I don't
know how they manage it, but you can walk in there and ask a fresh faced,
new HS grad if they've got a 7mm Ratrafratz Bolt and get told to go to
aisle 4, 2nd cabinet on the left, 3rd row, 2nd drawer from the left - and
*find* it right where they told you to look! Also the kind of place where
you can walk in with a problem you don't know how to solve and walk out
with a solution and the materials to do the job.

>
>
>

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
> Home Depot and the other "boxes" must be doing something valuable to
> have grown so big so fast. It takes customers to do so.

Yep ... and that "something" is selling "convenience" to the ever increasing
number of clueless.

> I've returned numerous things to Home Depot and never ever had a
> problem. I simply cannot identify with your experience.

The fact that you had to speaks volumes. But I am real glad for you
nonetheless. Around here, HD in particular, is the embodiment of everything
that is mediocre in today's building trades ... from the employees who run
the other way when they see a customer heading toward them, to the
nailgun-it-up-and-slap-some caulk-on-it types who pass themselves off as
craftsman.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/06/05

"Never Enough Money" wrote in message
> Speaks volumes for the manufacturers, not the retailer. Also speaks
> volumes about me -- getting the wrong thing.

Not necessarily your fault ... not all retailers will carry the crap that HD
does.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/06/05

My but aren't you two (Jim and Sharon) the buttholes?

"Rules are rules for a reason"? That's the best you got? Perhaps you have
some other platitudes you could offer?

I know..."You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar."

Or how 'bout "A stich in time saves nine"?

You don't work and play well with others, so go away until you do.


"Jim & Sharon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> you bought a piece of crap, didn't use it for 3 months and now you expect
> Hd
> to take it back.
> I think you need a dose of reality buddy.
> rules are rules for a reason. why should they bend them for you
>
>

you bought a piece of crap, didn't use it for 3 months and now you expect Hd
to take it back.
I think you need a dose of reality buddy.
rules are rules for a reason. why should they bend them for you

on 5/12/2005 1:40 PM [email protected] said the following:
> On Thu, 12 May 2005 18:34:07 GMT, Lobby Dosser <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>If it's existing hardware and you can't wait to get it from Lee
>>>Valley, take the Lee Valley Tools hardware catalog with you and point
>>>out the picture.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>They'd faint dead away and you'd have to slink out of the store!!
>
>
> I love some of the old guys who tell you, with a straight face no less, that
> they have never heard of Lee Valley.:)

Why? Do you really think the all the old duffers (and young ones) at
the big boxes were hired because they were mentors to Norm or Tage Frid?

More likely those with some experience were fired from the trades as
finish carpenters because their thumbs shrinking with old age and thus
being incapable of smoothing out a 3/4" line of caulking compound to
"finish" the trim job<g>

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Wow, I am impressed.
>>
>> I have never seen tubes of adhesive or rolls of tape that big. ;)
>
> Now you will see one that big...almost a litre
> http://integra-adhesives.com/images/products/850ml.jpg
> goes into this dispenser:
> http://tinyurl.com/9w7xo
> Two-part epoxy for joining engineered stone slabs.
>
>
>
> The tape? Small roll, really, but approved by DuPont to line the inside
> of a cook-top cut-out. Thick, self-adhesive aluminum. Works as a
> heat-sink. The adhesive can withstand very high temperatures.
>
> Now, Lee, don't you feel enlightened?
>
> *G*

You know I was just a funnin' ya.

But every field has some kind of expensive, exotic materials. I had a
welder friend who use to show me small handfuls of welding rod that cost
$250 or more. It makes sense that any kind of extreme needs materials or
adhesives would cost a lot.

"Brian Elfert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mr Fixit eh" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>>My biggest frustration at HD is the lack of knowledge -- knowledge
>>about product, knowledge about application, knowledge about customer
>>service.
>
> Do you really expect someone at Home Depot to know something about the
> every one of the thousands of items they carry?
>
> I certainly don't expect that.
>
> Brian Elfert

But would it be too much to expect that the employee assigned to a
particular department know something about the merchandise in that
department?
As someone said before, "It ain't rocket science". I think it's more of a
"don't give a damn" attitude.

Max D.

[email protected] wrote:
> Hey Robatoy:
>
> Calm down. I am a contractor here in Texas, and with few alternatives,
> I have to shop at HD for a lot of my every day stuff. Liquid nails,
> paint, sealer, a few boards here and there, plumbing, etc.
>
> I used to scream like a mashed cat when I would go through what you
> have, but the reality of it all is something you have already hit on.
>
> They HONESTLY don't care. Shame on you for not checking out a POS like
> B&D the first chance you got, but I DO understand that you buy
> something like that and it does take a while for you to get it to the
> job and try it, and a few more days to get by the store to return it.
>
> They are a giant corporation. One size has to fit all. All rules must
> be obseved the same for all shapes, sizes, sexes, races, etc. for fear
> or litigation. Or worse, to have some asst. manager nitwit start
> "interpreting" the rules as he or she sees fit.
>
> You have to realize the nature of the beast you are dealing with.
> They are what they are. They are a giant corporation moving units
> through the system. They could be selling farm implements for all they
> care.
>
> You must have an entirely different type of HD up there in CA. Why in
> the world did you think they gave a crap in the first place?
>
> I have read many of your posts and don't believe that you still believe
> in the Easter bunny or Santa ;), so why the big orange box fairy?
>
> Don't shop there. I don't unless I am trapped into it. They are not
> worth getting my blood pressure on boil because they are too stupid in
> most cases to even know that they <should> care.
>
> As a CONTRACTOR (read: constant, repeat, daily business) I am on your
> side. As a realist, I think you are taking this much to personally.
> After 24 years in business I will not boycott a supplier that could
> save me time (= money) when they are so unconscious they simply don't
> even notice, and wouldn't care if they did.
>
> Robert
>

I find myself agreeing with you and Robatoy....

Maybe Robatoy should just look for an opportunity to return the favour.



--
Will
Occasional Techno-geek

"Roy Smith" wrote in message

> > Over time you do notice one consistent, overriding philosophy: they are
> > there solely for the convenience and financial gratification of the
> > employees and management, PERIOD
>
> Actually, like any publicly traded company, they are there solely for the
> financial gratification of the stockholders.

Nope ... the shareholders aren't the ones who store the lumber carts at the
furthest end of the parking lot from the entrance.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/06/05

Robatoy wrote:

>
> I took it back to HD with my complaint.....they didn't want to refund
> the 98 Can$ (About 70 US$), they wanted to send it for repairs...because
> I was 10 days 'overdue' of the 30-day allowable return period. I was
> even willing to replace it with a small belt-sander from another make
> and pay a little extra if I had to...but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
>
> A Big deal? Not really, I guess, but unless I get some satisfaction, and
> soon, the boycott is on and I will never set foot in that store again...
> and I can be one stubborn Dutchman when I want to be.
>
> They want to hang a business relationship on 98 dollars or a '10-day'
> technicality...then so be it.
>
> Rob
> www.topworks.ca

One of the reasons I buy new power tools down at Chase Pitkin - Lifetime
warranty on all power tools - all brands. It's worth the trip to
Rochester(or if we're cruising by...).

Rob

In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>I repeat that I had NO expectations from B&D beyond the
>'less-than-medium-duty' market niche they cater to. That's still no
>excuse for a non-functioning device to be on their shelves, something
>they are ultimately accountable for.

No excuse, certainly - but a possible (maybe even *probable*) explanation:
that wasn't a new tool. Somebody *else* already used it and returned it, and
the guys at the HD return desk just packed it up and put it back on the shelf.
Wouldn't be the first time that's happened...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:design-
>
> One would think that in this day and age they had done that for me at
> the end of the assembly line. Basic quality control is not a new idea. I
> have reason to believe that a new tool will work. No? I know B&D is not
> high-end, but it should at least do the job it is supposed to do, no?
> You can't tell me that outright garbage is okay for the other customers
> who have NOT had the exposure to quality gear?

No, garbage is not OK. It may have been just fine at the factory and been
damaged in transit or droipped in the store. I don't know and neither does
anyone else. Could have been rough seas on the way from China.




> I'm approaching this from their viewpoint. Those kind of rules are
> guide-lines. Those 'rules' are not like a road-sign for State Troopers
> to hide behind looking for their quota. " Excuse me sir, does that sign
> say SPEED LIMIT 56?"
>
> Turns out that is a moot point as their advertised policy states 90 days.
> http://tinyurl.com/co38p

Since the policy is 90 days, they should accommodate you. A store as large
as HD just can't have people at the bottom end interpreting policy. It
could make one hell of a mess. I think tose rules are pretty much roles,
not just guidlines.




> *I*, on the other
> hand, expect to be treated a bit more like I treat MY customers....
> maybe that's my mistake, but I will never compromise that.

That is why I'd probably hire you as my contractor. When your company
reaches $100 million in sales, you'll have to rely more on the written
policy and interpretation of that policy by your underlings. I hope you can
still maintain the level of service.

I'm glad you did get a resolution though.

Just get a new one from HD and use the reciept to return the old one.
Then, if you want, return the new one with no reciept and get a store
credit.
MikeOn Tue, 10 May 2005 21:03:06 -0400, Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I was minding my own business some weeks ago, when I saw this nifty
>cheap belt-sander by Black & Decker. I knew it would never have the duty
>of my PC's, but it had one feature which attracted me to it. A very
>small front roller. with a flip-up door so that one can get into small
>tight corners. I felt I could use that feature sporadically so the
>'duty' didn't concern me too much.
>
>I take the thing home and leave it in the box till the time came I could
>use that feature; the inside corner of a counter-top edge. ( Did I tell
>you guys I fabricate solid surface counter tops?)
>Well lemme tell ya...what a piece of crap. MUCH worse than what I
>expected. I KNEW it wasn't a 'pro' piece, but come-ON!!
>The thing shuddered, and sounded like the bearings were spinning,
>screaming and howling..... I went: "Uh-oh!" and stuck it back in the box.
>
>I took it back to HD with my complaint.....they didn't want to refund
>the 98 Can$ (About 70 US$), they wanted to send it for repairs...because
>I was 10 days 'overdue' of the 30-day allowable return period. I was
>even willing to replace it with a small belt-sander from another make
>and pay a little extra if I had to...but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
>
>A Big deal? Not really, I guess, but unless I get some satisfaction, and
>soon, the boycott is on and I will never set foot in that store again...
>and I can be one stubborn Dutchman when I want to be.
>
>They want to hang a business relationship on 98 dollars or a '10-day'
>technicality...then so be it.
>
>Rob
>www.topworks.ca

On Wed, 11 May 2005 20:11:27 -0600, the inscrutable Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca> spake:

>In article <[email protected]>, Larry Jaques
><novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>> In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
>> through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
>> things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
>> are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
>> most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.
>
>Two rules:
>
>1) Don't sweat the small shit.
>
>2) It's ALL small shit.

True, so I've reactivated an old sig.

--

Don't sweat the petty things, and don't pet sweaty things.
----------------------------
www.diversify.com Sweat-free Website Development

"Roy Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
(snip)

> Let's take an example at another end of the spectrum -- Lee Valley. You
> often hear people on this group raving about what a wonderful company it
is
> and how well they treat their customers. Well, that may be true, but my
> statement above still holds -- they only treat their customers well
because
> they believe doing so will ultimately improve shareholder value (it's not
a
> publicly traded company, but the owner(s) still profit from it doing
well).
>
> There is no doubt that I like doing business with Lee Valley more than I
> like doing business with Home Depot. But, it also doesn't escape my
> attention that Home Depot could probably buy Lee Valley out of Petty Cash.
(snip)

Hi Roy -

If we won't sell to Berkshire-Hathaway, there's not much chance the Borg
would do any better...:)

Robert (nailshooter) pretty much hit it on the head...the Boxes just aren't
flexible, or agile.

Cheers -

Rob

On Wed, 11 May 2005 13:28:40 -0400, Robatoy <[email protected]>
wrote:


>Two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do.


My gawd, you're right. Never thought of it, that way.

Ken

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I was minding my own business some weeks ago, when I saw this nifty
> cheap belt-sander by Black & Decker. I knew it would never have the duty
> of my PC's, but it had one feature which attracted me to it. A very
> small front roller. with a flip-up door so that one can get into small
> tight corners. I felt I could use that feature sporadically so the
> 'duty' didn't concern me too much.
>
> I take the thing home and leave it in the box till the time came I could
> use that feature; the inside corner of a counter-top edge. ( Did I tell
> you guys I fabricate solid surface counter tops?)
> Well lemme tell ya...what a piece of crap. MUCH worse than what I
> expected. I KNEW it wasn't a 'pro' piece, but come-ON!!
> The thing shuddered, and sounded like the bearings were spinning,
> screaming and howling..... I went: "Uh-oh!" and stuck it back in the box.
>
> I took it back to HD with my complaint.....they didn't want to refund
> the 98 Can$ (About 70 US$), they wanted to send it for repairs...because
> I was 10 days 'overdue' of the 30-day allowable return period. I was
> even willing to replace it with a small belt-sander from another make
> and pay a little extra if I had to...but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
>
> A Big deal? Not really, I guess, but unless I get some satisfaction, and
> soon, the boycott is on and I will never set foot in that store again...
> and I can be one stubborn Dutchman when I want to be.
>
> They want to hang a business relationship on 98 dollars or a '10-day'
> technicality...then so be it.
>
> Rob
> www.topworks.ca

Too bad you didn't shop at Rona. Bambam reported that you can purchase
expensive purchase tools there, thow away the carton they come in, use the
tool for a day or two, and still get a full refund. (see "A Borg story with
a happy ending") Of course "it helps .. to.. know the guys in Tools".

<g>

"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> know how they manage it, but you can walk in there and ask a fresh faced,
>> new HS grad if they've got a 7mm Ratrafratz Bolt and get told to go to
>> aisle 4, 2nd cabinet on the left, 3rd row, 2nd drawer from the left - and
>> *find* it right where they told you to look! Also the kind of place where
>> you can walk in with a problem you don't know how to solve and walk out
>> with a solution and the materials to do the job.
>
> There aren't too many places like that around anymore, but I do have to
> concede that the Home Depot I go to has many older employees and most of
> them have the experience with stuff to be able to help me out when I'm
> having a problem. The greatest difficulty that I experience is getting
> them
> to understand what I want to buy. It's usually some type of esoteric
> fastener of some type, just that my experience and names for something
> doesn't always match theirs.

i don't know about that. a few years ago i had to search out a replacement
valve stem for an old faucet at a hole in the wall place that had stuff on
shelves that you didn't know you needed . lots of knowledgeable guys there.
i happened to find a joker that day who thought that telling me to use a bit
of jb weld inside the valve stem would prevent it from leaking instead of
replacing it.

turned out the manager didn't think it was so funny and he was fired on the
spot.

regards,
charlie
cave creek, az

"Odinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Larry Jaques wrote:
> > On Thu, 12 May 2005 16:56:07 -0400, the inscrutable Odinn
> > <[email protected]> spake:
> >
> >
> >>Larry Jaques wrote:
> >>
> >>>In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
> >>>through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
> >>>things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
> >>>are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
> >>>most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.
> >>>
> >>>Thanks for the reminder this morning; my daily lesson.
> >>
> >>I hit 20 in July as well.
> >
> >
> > Congrats, fellow old timer! I hope to survive to July 8th, my actual
> > AA bday.
> >
>
> Actually, my AA bday is June 15, but I've combined it with my NA of July
> 20. Makes it a lot easier :)
>

All right you guys - why don't you get a "room"... to (mis)use a popular
phrase. Congrats to both of you. June 30 makes 9 years for me. It's
really been a pretty easy 9 years all things considered. It was harder to
quit smoking than it was to quit drinking.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Sat, 14 May 2005 07:27:46 -0400, the inscrutable "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> spake:

>All right you guys - why don't you get a "room"... to (mis)use a popular
>phrase. Congrats to both of you. June 30 makes 9 years for me. It's
>really been a pretty easy 9 years all things considered. It was harder to
>quit smoking than it was to quit drinking.

Ditto, but I'm DAMNED glad I quit both. My smoking (2 packs/day, 100s)
ended just about 3 years after my sobriety began. I'm much healthier
and happier now.

P.S: Is OUR room ready yet? ;)


------
We're born hungry, wet, 'n naked, and it gets worse from there.
- http://diversify.com Website Application Programming -

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:

> I have read many of your posts and don't believe that you still believe
> in the Easter bunny or Santa ;), so why the big orange box fairy?

Ummmmm....what are you saying? Huh? Huh?


*g*


Sears has better customer relations than these clowns. That is saying
something.
I repeat that I had NO expectations from B&D beyond the
'less-than-medium-duty' market niche they cater to. That's still no
excuse for a non-functioning device to be on their shelves, something
they are ultimately accountable for. To then hide behind a
"you-want-fries-with-that' grade policy simply sucks.
It is hit-and-run marketing. I won't be part of it...and sometimes it is
an event like this which sheds some light on the fact that HD is, in
fact, an arrogant organization.

Funny thing, I bought an air-conditioner for my shop at Canadian Tire
the same afternoon. That chain is notoriously understaffed and the few
that do work there, do so at minimum wage. So I expect lousy
service...guess what? I GOT lousy service... but I shrugged it off,
knowing where I was and what to expect.

I'm done with HD. For now.

In article <[email protected]>,
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:design-
> > What the hell, Larry Jaques is right, not worth getting all tied up in a
> > knot about it.
>
> Especially now that you've got your credit/refund eh?

No.. especially now I got what was right. They sold me a piece of shit.
I wanted compensation. Period.

The money? I use tubes of adhesive that cost more than that sander.
Rolls of tape that I use cost more than that sander.

In article <[email protected]>,
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:

[snipperectomy]
> Then why continue to rant so hard? If you're done, you're done. Hold
> onto that vinegar and it'll eat a hole in your stomach. Repairs for
> that are a helluva lot higher than the cost of a B&D sandah, sir.

I rant because I don't hold on to vinegar... I vent. Vinegar free here.
*G*
>

> Your outfit or you, personally? How do they know you? Does the manager
> know you personally, or do you just do a lot of business there and a
> couple of the checkers know you by sight? Do you do a lot of warranty
> returns, custom fabrications/orders?

It's very hard to become known 'personally' when staff turns over at the
rate theirs does. This must be their 10th 'manager' since they opened 3
years ago. You see, I haven't had time to be 'hardened' by the onslaught
of the BBB's (Big Box Bastards)
>
> P.S: A man who "drops that kind of money" there usually doesn't buy
> from the B&D line.

LOL... ONE piece of B&D..seriously... I bought that particular sander
because it has a tiny front roller and I thought that for the occasional
time I need to sand out a stubborn blemish from the inside corner of a
solid surface countertop that it would do the job. (BTW, did I tell you
I fabricate solid surface?). I bought the frickin' thing because of a
feature, NOT because I thought B&D makes wonderful tools.
I have tainted myself..smudge marks all over my reputation as a quality
tool buyer... I'm sorry I touched it..but I had a need...the rest of it
is all a blank...dunno WHAT happened....hell, I feel like the guy who
drove the baby-sitter home and shouldn't have done what he did...
Buy ONE piece of B&D! The guilt! =o]
Will my Lamello, Feins, Festools, Milwaukees EVER let me touch them
again??
>
[sipperectomies continue]

> You should thank them for teaching you an inexpensive lesson. Once
> purchased, every tool or item should be inspected immediately and/or
> used to verify its function/color/texture/usability. Please DAMHIKT.
> <sigh>
>
> OK, so they screwed up on the warranty period. Send a letter off and
> let it go. Your health is worth far more than a vendor's inattention.
>
> In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
> through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
> things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
> are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
> most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.
>
So true. After I had to give up my nightly brandy(ies) with my dad
because my doctor put me on Naprosin for my OA, total sobriety ensued.

I'll get my satisfaction soon enough..and you're right...a cheap lesson
for me, but not for them. And it's knowing that they couldn't care
less...THAT is the part that irks me the most.

Out with the bad air...in with the good.

> Thanks for the reminder this morning; my daily lesson.
>
You're welcome, sir. I'm glad you got something positive out of it as
well.

In article <[email protected]>,
Ba r r y <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Wed, 11 May 2005 21:52:33 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
> <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
>
> >>
> >> The money? I use tubes of adhesive that cost more than that sander.
> >> Rolls of tape that I use cost more than that sander.
> >
> >Wow, I am impressed.
> >
> >I have never seen tubes of adhesive or rolls of tape that big. ;)
>
> Depends on the product.
>
> I have a relative that uses $115 a gallon paint.
>
> Of course, it encapsulates lead... <G>
>
> Barry

If I were to encapsulate lead, that is what I would use. *G*

Some of the high-tech automotive finishes from Akzo/Sikkens are way
higher than that. At the supplier's that sells me some of my sandpapers,
I saw a client walk out with a box in his arms, not struggling with it,
several cans.. $1200.00 For one car. Materials. Quite normal, I was told.

Those guys drop a 1000 bucks on a gun.

1000 bucks for a phonograph cartridge I can understand, but a spray gun?

I digress.

In article <[email protected]>,
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:


>
> Wow, I am impressed.
>
> I have never seen tubes of adhesive or rolls of tape that big. ;)

Now you will see one that big...almost a litre
http://integra-adhesives.com/images/products/850ml.jpg
goes into this dispenser:
http://tinyurl.com/9w7xo
Two-part epoxy for joining engineered stone slabs.



The tape? Small roll, really, but approved by DuPont to line the inside
of a cook-top cut-out. Thick, self-adhesive aluminum. Works as a
heat-sink. The adhesive can withstand very high temperatures.

Now, Lee, don't you feel enlightened?

*G*

In article <[email protected]>,
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > I take the thing home and leave it in the box till the time came I could
> > use that feature;
>
> Error. What would it take to plug it in and pull the trigger?

One would think that in this day and age they had done that for me at
the end of the assembly line. Basic quality control is not a new idea. I
have reason to believe that a new tool will work. No? I know B&D is not
high-end, but it should at least do the job it is supposed to do, no?
You can't tell me that outright garbage is okay for the other customers
who have NOT had the exposure to quality gear?

> If 10 days is OK, then 12 is too. If 12 days is OK, then 18 is too. If 18
> days is OK, then 30 is too. Why not just make it 5 years and be done with
> it. The 18 year old at the return desk does not have much discretion in
> interpeting corporate policy.

I'm approaching this from their viewpoint. Those kind of rules are
guide-lines. Those 'rules' are not like a road-sign for State Troopers
to hide behind looking for their quota. " Excuse me sir, does that sign
say SPEED LIMIT 56?"

Turns out that is a moot point as their advertised policy states 90 days.
http://tinyurl.com/co38p

Still, a little flexibility makes for good relations. The lack of
flexibility and discretion is what is wrong with those MegaMoFo giant
big-box bastards. They simple don't give a rat's ass. It opened my eyes.
And THAT is why I'm done with them. Sure they have been conveniently
located for my needs, but that only accounts for so much.

> > They want to hang a business relationship on 98 dollars or a '10-day'
> > technicality...then so be it.
>
> Posted policy, not a technicality.
> I'm surprised at you. With all your experience, you know B&D is low end,
> you knew the HD policy was 30 days, you've been in business for a long time,
> now you want special treatment.

You're damned right I want special treatment. It's just not smart to
piss off customers who drop the kind of money on that store like my
outfit does. If I go to the same restaurant for years, *I* expect the
better pork chop from the cooler.

> I really think you have to take
> responsibility for some of this for not checking it beforehand. They did
> offer to send it for repairs.

I have taken responsibility for not checking this closer. I did not
expect them to be nit-pickers on policy like that. It was *I* who
ventured into the UnderWorld of Black & Decker and became sorely
disappointed in one quick hurry. MY mistake. But HD could have taken
advantage of my dilemma and scored some major points in customer
relations by taking care of me better... instead of "You bought
it...OHHMYYY...missed it by ten days..OOPSIES you lose........
>
> Sorry for the lack of sympathy, but I just happen to disagree on this.

I wasn't looking for sympathy, I know where to find that in the
dictionary. I find you're a level-headed guy in your other posts here.
There are likely many who will disagree with this. *I*, on the other
hand, expect to be treated a bit more like I treat MY customers....
maybe that's my mistake, but I will never compromise that.

In article <[email protected]>,
"Jim & Sharon" <[email protected]> wrote:

> you bought a piece of crap, didn't use it for 3 months and now you expect Hd
> to take it back.
> I think you need a dose of reality buddy.
> rules are rules for a reason. why should they bend them for you

You're right. Never bend the rules.
Hence:

PLONK.

In article <110520052011273682%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca>,
Dave Balderstone <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, Larry Jaques
> <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
> > In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
> > through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
> > things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
> > are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
> > most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.
>
> Two rules:
>
> 1) Don't sweat the small shit.
>
> 2) It's ALL small shit.
>
> djb

or as a lady friend of mine likes to say: "Don't sweat the petty things,
but DO pet the sweaty things.."

In article <[email protected]>,
Unquestionably Confused <[email protected]> wrote:

> Robatoy wrote:
> > In article <A7Dge.12471$Fn1.144@trnddc03>,
> > Lobby Dosser <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>My last lesson was knife hinges.
> >
> >
> > I know, I know... one puts them in a blade so one can cut corners?
>
>
> Ding, Ding! WRONG. Those are those new hinges. Cutting edge technology!

Seen them in The Sharper Image Catalogue...being marketed to the hilt!

In article <[email protected]>,
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:

> I was minding my own business some weeks ago, when I saw this nifty
> cheap belt-sander by Black & Decker. I knew it would never have the duty
> of my PC's, but it had one feature which attracted me to it. A very
> small front roller. with a flip-up door so that one can get into small
> tight corners. I felt I could use that feature sporadically so the
> 'duty' didn't concern me too much.
>
> I take the thing home and leave it in the box till the time came I could
> use that feature; the inside corner of a counter-top edge. ( Did I tell
> you guys I fabricate solid surface counter tops?)
> Well lemme tell ya...what a piece of crap. MUCH worse than what I
> expected. I KNEW it wasn't a 'pro' piece, but come-ON!!
> The thing shuddered, and sounded like the bearings were spinning,
> screaming and howling..... I went: "Uh-oh!" and stuck it back in the box.
>
> I took it back to HD with my complaint.....they didn't want to refund
> the 98 Can$ (About 70 US$), they wanted to send it for repairs...because
> I was 10 days 'overdue' of the 30-day allowable return period. I was
> even willing to replace it with a small belt-sander from another make
> and pay a little extra if I had to...but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
>
> A Big deal? Not really, I guess, but unless I get some satisfaction, and
> soon, the boycott is on and I will never set foot in that store again...
> and I can be one stubborn Dutchman when I want to be.
>
> They want to hang a business relationship on 98 dollars or a '10-day'
> technicality...then so be it.
>
> Rob
> www.topworks.ca

THEN I find out that there is NO way to e-mail those fine HD
people...and that their website for HD Canada says 90 NINETY days return
no questions asked....oh boy...wait till tomorrow....

In article <A7Dge.12471$Fn1.144@trnddc03>,
Lobby Dosser <[email protected]> wrote:

> My last lesson was knife hinges.

I know, I know... one puts them in a blade so one can cut corners?

In article <[email protected]>, "George" <george@least>
wrote:

> Like it's
> the first or last time you'll make a poor decision?

The fact that I'm my third marriage tell you anything? *G*

Of course, it could have been the ex's poor decisions, eh?

In article <[email protected]>,
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:

> A Big deal? Not really, I guess, but unless I get some satisfaction, and
> soon, the boycott is on and I will never set foot in that store again...
> and I can be one stubborn Dutchman when I want to be.
>
> They want to hang a business relationship on 98 dollars or a '10-day'
> technicality...then so be it.
>

I called and was put through to the
'day-duty-part-time-associate-assistant-manager'.

I pointed out to him that their website clearly stated a 90-day return.
He checked and agreed. He asked, rather sheepishly, if I would be
willing to accept an in-store credit. I agreed.

What the hell, Larry Jaques is right, not worth getting all tied up in a
knot about it.

Two wrongs don't make a right... but three lefts do.

0¿0

In article <[email protected]>,
Unquestionably Confused <[email protected]> wrote:

> Oh, you can't just buy them like that. You have to have one of our
> people come out and measure your kitchen.

Had THAT gone down, rest assured the order would have been
wrong..OR..there would be 6" spacer to substitute for that 30" base
cabinet they were short of...so they gave you a 24" with a little spacer.

Seen it done. I shitteth thee not!

I used to template those HD jobs for my friend, but after a few..mmmm
sorry, bud..this dude is out of time.
Another favourite was Thunder Thursday. They delivered the cabinets on
Monday, partial install, done (sort of) on Thursday...the phone would
ring...... Cabinets are in, customer want a working kitchen by the
weekend or else. The frickin' Corian is just off the truck, NO time to
warm up to working temp... Friday morning first bit/blade hits the
material, go nuts...4 guys on the job...okay...who has the cooktop and
the sink? Can't continue without the cooktop or the sink.
Ohhhhhhhhh Home Depot doesn't have them yet????

While you're up, grab me a cold one too, will ya?

Sure...I laugh now....

In article <[email protected]>,
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:

> You know I was just a funnin' ya.
>
I know you were, others maybe weren't so lucky. *G*

> But every field has some kind of expensive, exotic materials. I had a
> welder friend who use to show me small handfuls of welding rod that cost
> $250 or more. It makes sense that any kind of extreme needs materials or
> adhesives would cost a lot.

And that brings us to jewellers. Gold, silver, diamonds and pearls by
the pound, the sawdust in a shop like that is worth money, eh?...

*grins*

In article <[email protected]>,
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:design-
> >
> > or as a lady friend of mine likes to say: "Don't sweat the petty things,
> > but DO pet the sweaty things.."
>
> Did she end up as one of your three wives?

ROTFLMFAO
*wiping away tears*

Gawd, how I wish I could share with you how funny that was...

Suffice it say that few men have lasted much longer than 3 months before
she breaks them. I have been fortunate to have been spared that
humiliation....



*still laughing*

Commits most of those crimes herself..LOL.

In article <[email protected]>,
"Never Enough Money" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Amen. Companies deal with all kinds of fraud yet everybody thinks they
> should never be suspected. Heck, they offered to have it repaired.
> Plus, we can't see how "used" it was. Perhaps they thought, my God,
> this guy used the heck out of this machine, is finished with it, and
> now wants us to eat it.

I do not fit that profile. Not even close.

In article <[email protected]>,
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Robatoy" wrote in message
>
> > big-box bastards. They simple don't give a rat's ass. It opened my eyes.
> > And THAT is why I'm done with them. Sure they have been conveniently
> > located for my needs, but that only accounts for so much.
>
> Over time you do notice one consistent, overriding philosophy: they are
> there solely for the convenience and financial gratification of the
> employees and management, PERIOD

I'm much more aware of that now that I have seen their 'customer service
department' in action. (I wonder if it is staffed with ex fork-lift
drivers?
>
> Basically, I wouldn't walk into a HD if the company did not have a
> commercial charge account and the money was coming out of my pocket. The
> bastards even tried to kill me with a forklift last week, then attempted to
> blame it on me ... damn good thing I am relatively nimble for my age. That
> particular store "manager" won't forget me for a long time.

I have an account there so I can send anybody to fetch stuff as the need
arises. They KNOW what I spent there over the last 3 years. It is
considerably less than a full building contractor, but it's enough.

A friend of mine supplies 5 HD stores with Corian. They make him jump
through hoops. Sometimes they are totally unreasonable. He cannot
template a job unless the cabinets are in. HD controls the sub who is
doing the installation of those cabinets. My friend's contract states
that he must deliver within 21 days after the order is confirmed.
Sometimes that leaves him 1 or 2 days to template, fabricate and install
a countertop. Sometimes he gets penalized for being late. Rules are
rules, right?

Anyway, good to hear you escaped injury. Not much give to forklifts.

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:design-
>> > What the hell, Larry Jaques is right, not worth getting all tied up in
>> > a
>> > knot about it.
>>
>> Especially now that you've got your credit/refund eh?
>
> No.. especially now I got what was right. They sold me a piece of shit.
> I wanted compensation. Period.
>
> The money? I use tubes of adhesive that cost more than that sander.
> Rolls of tape that I use cost more than that sander.

Wow, I am impressed.

I have never seen tubes of adhesive or rolls of tape that big. ;)

Upscale wrote:
> "Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>>know how they manage it, but you can walk in there and ask a fresh faced,
>>new HS grad if they've got a 7mm Ratrafratz Bolt and get told to go to
>>aisle 4, 2nd cabinet on the left, 3rd row, 2nd drawer from the left - and
>>*find* it right where they told you to look! Also the kind of place where
>>you can walk in with a problem you don't know how to solve and walk out
>>with a solution and the materials to do the job.
>
>
> There aren't too many places like that around anymore, but I do have to
> concede that the Home Depot I go to has many older employees and most of
> them have the experience with stuff to be able to help me out when I'm
> having a problem. The greatest difficulty that I experience is getting them
> to understand what I want to buy.

The problem is that all the posters are right, at least some of the
time. Oft times the person you talk to at HD or elsewhere hasn't a clue
and other times you might just as well be talking to the person who
invented the "left-handed framistan" you happen to be looking for.

The problem is you NEVER KNOW which one you've drawn that day.

It's kind of like those old logic puzzles that begin...

"You talk to two guards. One never lies and one will never speak the
truth. How..."

If you don't know the answer yourself you'll likely walk out of there
with a nice new MAPP gas torch so you can fix the gas tank on your
lawnmower<g>

on 5/11/2005 4:41 PM Robatoy said the following:
> In article <[email protected]
> A friend of mine supplies 5 HD stores with Corian. They make him jump
> through hoops. Sometimes they are totally unreasonable. He cannot
> template a job unless the cabinets are in. HD controls the sub who is
> doing the installation of those cabinets. My friend's contract states
> that he must deliver within 21 days after the order is confirmed.
> Sometimes that leaves him 1 or 2 days to template, fabricate and install
> a countertop. Sometimes he gets penalized for being late. Rules are
> rules, right?

They try to pull that same crap with their customers as well. Tried to
buy a full kitchen's worth of cabinets on a complete makeover. First
had to deal with their "cabinet counselor" or whatever, couldn't just
get anyone to take the order although I'd already measured, obtained
their stocking numbers, etc.

Okay, no biggie, I'm back the next night and lo and behold their
"cabinet counselor" is some 60+ little old lady who honestly was
clueless. Couldn't operate the computer used to generate the order so
we swapped places and I filled in the order myself. Asked her one
simple question about a double door cabinet detail that wasn't clear
from anything they had in the books, on the computer, etc. Said she'd
have to call the factory and get back to me. Okay, let's write this upd!

Oh, you can't just buy them like that. You have to have one of our
people come out and measure your kitchen.

Adios, HD A**holes! Enough!

Talked to my Corian guy who put me in touch with his cabinet jobber.
Ordered them by FAX and was good to go in about ten days. Price was
better than HD for the same product as well.

HD = 7-11 If you gotta have it right now and you know what you need
it's the place to go when nothing else is available. Otherwise...
APBHD! Any Place But Home Depot.

On Thu, 12 May 2005 18:34:07 GMT, Lobby Dosser <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>> If it's existing hardware and you can't wait to get it from Lee
>> Valley, take the Lee Valley Tools hardware catalog with you and point
>> out the picture.
>>
>>
>
>They'd faint dead away and you'd have to slink out of the store!!

I love some of the old guys who tell you, with a straight face no less, that
they have never heard of Lee Valley.:)

On Wed, 11 May 2005 10:09:26 -0400, the inscrutable Robatoy
<[email protected]> spake:

>In article <[email protected]>,
> Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>[snipperectomy]
>> Then why continue to rant so hard? If you're done, you're done. Hold
>> onto that vinegar and it'll eat a hole in your stomach. Repairs for
>> that are a helluva lot higher than the cost of a B&D sandah, sir.
>
>I rant because I don't hold on to vinegar... I vent. Vinegar free here.
>*G*

Meanwhile, 437 lines of rant later..."Oh, no, I don't hold on to
things." Uh, huh. <giggle>


>It's very hard to become known 'personally' when staff turns over at the
>rate theirs does. This must be their 10th 'manager' since they opened 3
>years ago. You see, I haven't had time to be 'hardened' by the onslaught
>of the BBB's (Big Box Bastards)

You're still learning. This is a good thing. I aspire to learn
something new every day. (Every once in awhile it works.)


>> P.S: A man who "drops that kind of money" there usually doesn't buy
>> from the B&D line.
>
>LOL... ONE piece of B&D..seriously... I bought that particular sander
>because it has a tiny front roller and I thought that for the occasional
>time I need to sand out a stubborn blemish from the inside corner of a
>solid surface countertop that it would do the job. (BTW, did I tell you
>I fabricate solid surface?). I bought the frickin' thing because of a
>feature, NOT because I thought B&D makes wonderful tools.

Hey, I still have (and occasionally use) my 30+ y/o B&D tools. They
did the job they were purchased for and [insert Energizer theme here.]
With the exception of Crapsman, a tool's a tool. It's how you use it
that counts. (Verify that with your wife and mistresses.)

BTW, send pictures of the problems you have with solid counters. I
need something for which I can invent a solution.


>I have tainted myself..smudge marks all over my reputation as a quality
>tool buyer... I'm sorry I touched it..but I had a need...the rest of it
>is all a blank...dunno WHAT happened....hell, I feel like the guy who
>drove the baby-sitter home and shouldn't have done what he did...
>Buy ONE piece of B&D! The guilt! =o]
>Will my Lamello, Feins, Festools, Milwaukees EVER let me touch them
>again??

Oh, man. I'll bet you regret that choice. I've gone with the baby
sitter option instead of a silly tool. <domg> OK, with that out
of the way, did you ever wonder why the bottom-of-the-line tool was
the only one who had that particular feature? Hmm, did the marketeers
see you coming, or what? ;)


>[sipperectomies continue]

>> In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
>> through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
>> things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
>> are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
>> most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.
>>
>So true. After I had to give up my nightly brandy(ies) with my dad
>because my doctor put me on Naprosin for my OA, total sobriety ensued.

I used Naprosyn after sliding off a sandal onto a rock once. I had
been unable to walk due to the pain, but 20 minutes after the first
Naprosyn, I was up and moving again. Excellent stuff for bone pain.
800mg of Motrin 4x/day hadn't TOUCHED it.

Good going on the sobriety. I have a Blue Bunny low-carb yogurt for
my bedtime snack, taken with a capsule of acidophilus. Yum!


>I'll get my satisfaction soon enough..and you're right...a cheap lesson
>for me, but not for them. And it's knowing that they couldn't care
>less...THAT is the part that irks me the most.

That's the way 95% of businesses now do their business. In return, I
patronize them only when they're the cheapest or only game in town.


>Out with the bad air...in with the good.

Oh, very good! Holding one's breath until one turns blue does
absolutely no good with these types.


>> Thanks for the reminder this morning; my daily lesson.
>>
>You're welcome, sir. I'm glad you got something positive out of it as
>well.

Ciao!


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"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:design-
> What the hell, Larry Jaques is right, not worth getting all tied up in a
> knot about it.

Especially now that you've got your credit/refund eh?

Charlie Self wrote:

> I doubt I'll ever forget, in Lowe's (not HD), standing near the
> Customer Service desk in the new store. Two guys come in asking where
> the brick mold was placed. The woman sent them to the plumbing
> department.

LOL! I'm surprised she didn't send them to the cleaning supplies or the
lawn & garden area.

On Wed, 11 May 2005 14:21:12 -0400, "Gary" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>I was minding my own business some weeks ago, when I saw this nifty
>> cheap belt-sander by Black & Decker. I knew it would never have the duty
>> of my PC's, but it had one feature which attracted me to it. A very
>> small front roller. with a flip-up door so that one can get into small
>> tight corners. I felt I could use that feature sporadically so the
>> 'duty' didn't concern me too much.
>>
>> I take the thing home and leave it in the box till the time came I could
>> use that feature; the inside corner of a counter-top edge. ( Did I tell
>> you guys I fabricate solid surface counter tops?)
>> Well lemme tell ya...what a piece of crap. MUCH worse than what I
>> expected. I KNEW it wasn't a 'pro' piece, but come-ON!!
>> The thing shuddered, and sounded like the bearings were spinning,
>> screaming and howling..... I went: "Uh-oh!" and stuck it back in the box.
>>
>> I took it back to HD with my complaint.....they didn't want to refund
>> the 98 Can$ (About 70 US$), they wanted to send it for repairs...because
>> I was 10 days 'overdue' of the 30-day allowable return period. I was
>> even willing to replace it with a small belt-sander from another make
>> and pay a little extra if I had to...but NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
>>
>> A Big deal? Not really, I guess, but unless I get some satisfaction, and
>> soon, the boycott is on and I will never set foot in that store again...
>> and I can be one stubborn Dutchman when I want to be.
>>
>> They want to hang a business relationship on 98 dollars or a '10-day'
>> technicality...then so be it.
>>
>> Rob
>> www.topworks.ca
>
>Too bad you didn't shop at Rona. Bambam reported that you can purchase
>expensive purchase tools there, thow away the carton they come in, use the
>tool for a day or two, and still get a full refund. (see "A Borg story with
>a happy ending") Of course "it helps .. to.. know the guys in Tools".
>
Only a fool buys a tool, or anything with a warranty, from Home Depot.

On Sat, 14 May 2005 09:00:06 -0400, Odinn <[email protected]>
wrote:

SNIPPO
>> All right you guys - why don't you get a "room"... to (mis)use a popular
>> phrase. Congrats to both of you. June 30 makes 9 years for me. It's
>> really been a pretty easy 9 years all things considered. It was harder to
>> quit smoking than it was to quit drinking.
>>
>
>I quit smoking for 5 years, was around some friends who were smoking, I
>lit one, had it half smoked before I realized what I had done. It was a
>very quick eye opener as to how insidious the disease of addiction is.

I quit a few years back fairly easily even though I am around smokers
a lot. I was going along great until a couple months ago when I got a
new cell phone. It is fairly small and light so I took to sticking it
in my shirt pocket. I couldn't quite figure out why I started feeling
the "urge" every once in a while until once when driving I did the old
habitual touch of the pocket that often proceeded getting out a smoke.
I then realized that the weight in the shirt pocket was bringing back
old responses.

Dave Hall

"The thing shuddered, and sounded like the bearings were spinning,
screaming and howling..."

The OP is arguing that the tool isn't of merchantable quality.

That's pretty much the definition of merchantability.



"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 12 May 2005 00:46:59 GMT, "Mark Cooper"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Ever heard of a guarantee of merchantability?
>
> Of course - if the OP had bought one of the self-immolating "Firestorm"
> drills from B&D, he'd have a point.
>
> But who's arguing that the tool here isn't "of merchantable quality" (as
> my local laws phrase it) ? The question is whether the buyer has an
> entitlement to replace it simply because they don't like it (for
> whatever reason) rather than arguing the stronger claim that the tool
> is not at all merchantable.
>

"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> know how they manage it, but you can walk in there and ask a fresh faced,
> new HS grad if they've got a 7mm Ratrafratz Bolt and get told to go to
> aisle 4, 2nd cabinet on the left, 3rd row, 2nd drawer from the left - and
> *find* it right where they told you to look! Also the kind of place where
> you can walk in with a problem you don't know how to solve and walk out
> with a solution and the materials to do the job.

There aren't too many places like that around anymore, but I do have to
concede that the Home Depot I go to has many older employees and most of
them have the experience with stuff to be able to help me out when I'm
having a problem. The greatest difficulty that I experience is getting them
to understand what I want to buy. It's usually some type of esoteric
fastener of some type, just that my experience and names for something
doesn't always match theirs.

On Thu, 12 May 2005 16:56:07 -0400, the inscrutable Odinn
<[email protected]> spake:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
>> through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
>> things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
>> are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
>> most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.
>>
>> Thanks for the reminder this morning; my daily lesson.
>
>I hit 20 in July as well.

Congrats, fellow old timer! I hope to survive to July 8th, my actual
AA bday.


------
We're born hungry, wet, 'n naked, and it gets worse from there.
- http://diversify.com Website Application Programming -

I don't mind the despot. As others have mentioned they are great for nails
and cable and quickie supplies etc.

I don't buy power tools from them.

I had forgotten to include an air compressor on a recent order when
purchasing tools for a bunch of construction I have to do around here. I
headed down to the despot to pick one up figuring it's just an air
compressor. Looked at what they had and picked one that was a bit bigger
than I wanted but was the closest fit. They had the display model, bolted
to a turntable type thing. They had one completely in the open, no box at
all. They had one in an open box. I asked one of the clerks to confirm
that the one in the open box had everything that came with it. (Getting
that clerk took about 10 minutes) His reply: How should I know? He also
made a comment (somewhat under his breath) that this is the way that large
retail hardware/lumber outlets operate.

I thanked him and left.

One the flip side of the despot I recently ordered a bunch of kitchen
cabinets from them. I had substantially done the design but the kitchen
design consultant that I worked with there was as good as anyone I've ever
worked with. Knew her software, knew her cabinetry, was a pleasure to work
with. Same thing goes for the guy I ordered some doors from.

And as one more flip side I recently needed a spade wrench. They have these
behind locked bars. The plumbing guy was helping out an older lady trying
to replumb her sink or something. It probably would have been quicker if he
had just gone to her house and done the job. I'm standing there waiting for
a point where I can politely break in... and waiting.. and waiting...
Finally I just interrupted and said look.. I need a tool that's locked up..
can you just take 15 seconds and get it for me. Yeah.. he can do that. He
walks over to the disply.. gives the bars a tug and slips his hand up
underneath and grabs the wrench. Sneering at me while he's doing it... as
if I'm too much on an idiot to figure out how to defeat their anti-theft
display. Somehow I think that if that same clerk had caught me doing that
I'd of been asked wtf I was doing.

So, like most places it has it's good points and it's bad points, and the
people involved have a lot to do with making them one way or another.

ml

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message

> Of course - if the OP had bought one of the self-immolating "Firestorm"
> drills from B&D, he'd have a point.

Two weeks ago someone tried to give me three, brand new in the box,
"Firestorm" cordless drills, and two of BD's version of the cordless
multisaw, all still under plastic ... it raised some eyebrows when I said no
thank you.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/06/05

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:design-
> > Especially now that you've got your credit/refund eh?
>
> No.. especially now I got what was right. They sold me a piece of shit.
> I wanted compensation. Period.
>
> The money? I use tubes of adhesive that cost more than that sander.
> Rolls of tape that I use cost more than that sander.

Of course, I knew it wasn't the money from the start. When it comes down to
being right against a specific amount of money, being right wins most every
time. The money is nice, but the satisfaction that comes from being right is
priceless.

Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <A7Dge.12471$Fn1.144@trnddc03>,
> Lobby Dosser <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> My last lesson was knife hinges.
>
> I know, I know... one puts them in a blade so one can cut corners?
>

Pretty close to some of the guesses I got .. :o)

Robatoy wrote:
> In article <A7Dge.12471$Fn1.144@trnddc03>,
> Lobby Dosser <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>My last lesson was knife hinges.
>
>
> I know, I know... one puts them in a blade so one can cut corners?


Ding, Ding! WRONG. Those are those new hinges. Cutting edge technology!

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:design-
>
> or as a lady friend of mine likes to say: "Don't sweat the petty things,
> but DO pet the sweaty things.."

Did she end up as one of your three wives?

Home Depot and the other big boxes have by and large, become a joke.

I am returning to the local merchants for most of my non marine stuff.

Just yesterday, needed a 2", foil faced, rigid insulation board.

Started at H/D because they we closest, they no longer carry the product.

Next was a brand new Lowes, they had 1" but not 2" board.

Next was a lumber yard that has been around since 1884.

They had what I needed and the price was in line.

Nuf said.

Lew

So you're pissed off at HD. STOW IT!! Now lets get on with it and talk
about woodworking!!


"Odinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> > "Odinn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>Larry Jaques wrote:
> >>
> >>>On Thu, 12 May 2005 16:56:07 -0400, the inscrutable Odinn
> >>><[email protected]> spake:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Larry Jaques wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
> >>>>>through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
> >>>>>things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
> >>>>>are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
> >>>>>most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>Thanks for the reminder this morning; my daily lesson.
> >>>>
> >>>>I hit 20 in July as well.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Congrats, fellow old timer! I hope to survive to July 8th, my actual
> >>>AA bday.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Actually, my AA bday is June 15, but I've combined it with my NA of July
> >>20. Makes it a lot easier :)
> >>
> >
> >
> > All right you guys - why don't you get a "room"... to (mis)use a
popular
> > phrase. Congrats to both of you. June 30 makes 9 years for me. It's
> > really been a pretty easy 9 years all things considered. It was harder
to
> > quit smoking than it was to quit drinking.
> >
>
> I quit smoking for 5 years, was around some friends who were smoking, I
> lit one, had it half smoked before I realized what I had done. It was a
> very quick eye opener as to how insidious the disease of addiction is.
>
> --
> Odinn
> RCOS #7
>
> "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never
> worshipped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton
>
> Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org
> '03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide
> '97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic
> Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net
> Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org
>
> rot13 to reply

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Over time you do notice one consistent, overriding philosophy: they are
> there solely for the convenience and financial gratification of the
> employees and management, PERIOD

Actually, like any publicly traded company, they are there solely for the
financial gratification of the stockholders. And based on what their stock
price has done over the past 20 years or so, I suspect stockholder
gratification is pretty high.

If they invest any effort to make customers, employees, and/or management
happy, it's only because they believe doing so will ultimately improve
shareholder value.

Let's take an example at another end of the spectrum -- Lee Valley. You
often hear people on this group raving about what a wonderful company it is
and how well they treat their customers. Well, that may be true, but my
statement above still holds -- they only treat their customers well because
they believe doing so will ultimately improve shareholder value (it's not a
publicly traded company, but the owner(s) still profit from it doing well).

There is no doubt that I like doing business with Lee Valley more than I
like doing business with Home Depot. But, it also doesn't escape my
attention that Home Depot could probably buy Lee Valley out of Petty Cash.
It would seem (sad as it may be to say this) that when push comes to shove,
big, obnoxious, and relentlessly efficient is a better (or at least, more
successful) way to make money.

Personally, I drop a lot of money at Home Depot. I know what to expect
from them, and what not to expect from them. And I know if I buy some
low-end B&D power tool, I'll probably regret it, but that's not really HD's
fault. I'm gonna keep buying hand planes from LV, but when I need a box of
nails, a garden hose, and a roll of BX cable at 10:00 on a Sunday night,
the big orange box is where I head. And, yes, I'm hoping Lowes gets some
stores open in my area. Having somebody who can compete with HD on an even
footing can only be good for me as a customer.

Roy Smith <[email protected]> wrote:

> Personally, I drop a lot of money at Home Depot. I know what to
> expect from them, and what not to expect from them. And I know if I
> buy some low-end B&D power tool, I'll probably regret it, but that's
> not really HD's fault. I'm gonna keep buying hand planes from LV, but
> when I need a box of nails, a garden hose, and a roll of BX cable at
> 10:00 on a Sunday night, the big orange box is where I head. And,
> yes, I'm hoping Lowes gets some stores open in my area. Having
> somebody who can compete with HD on an even footing can only be good
> for me as a customer.
>
>

We had a Lowes open a couple years ago and they are pretty much the same as
HD. In either place I find myself giving lessons in whatever I'm looking
for, if it is more technical than a bag of dirt.

On Tue, 10 May 2005 21:03:06 -0400, Robatoy <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I was minding my own business some weeks ago, when I saw this nifty
>cheap belt-sander by Black & Decker.

Never buy "nifty" tools.


Sorry, but no sympathy here.

B&D make crap. You know this.

They're a shop, not a rental place. Now in my book, '30 days and return
for "I don't like this"' is pretty generous anyway. But there's no other
way to know if the thing is any good, so I guess that's their cost
downside against the upside of having a self-service warehouse instead
of a shop with real staff.

But the rules are pretty plain. _30_days_. A whole month. You don't
need that long to work out if the thing is tolerably "fit for purpose",
you can do that in an afternoon. So for a returns policy that's already
pretty generous, you're just taking the piss here.

"Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 11 May 2005 21:52:33 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
> <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
>
> >>
> >> The money? I use tubes of adhesive that cost more than that sander.
> >> Rolls of tape that I use cost more than that sander.
> >
> >Wow, I am impressed.
> >
> >I have never seen tubes of adhesive or rolls of tape that big. ;)
>
> Depends on the product.
>
> I have a relative that uses $115 a gallon paint.
>
> Of course, it encapsulates lead... <G>
>

How about $185/gallon stone floor sealer?

dwhite

On Tue, 10 May 2005 23:51:28 -0400, the inscrutable Robatoy
<[email protected]> spake:

>Still, a little flexibility makes for good relations. The lack of
>flexibility and discretion is what is wrong with those MegaMoFo giant
>big-box bastards. They simple don't give a rat's ass. It opened my eyes.
>And THAT is why I'm done with them. Sure they have been conveniently
>located for my needs, but that only accounts for so much.

Then why continue to rant so hard? If you're done, you're done. Hold
onto that vinegar and it'll eat a hole in your stomach. Repairs for
that are a helluva lot higher than the cost of a B&D sandah, sir.


>You're damned right I want special treatment. It's just not smart to
>piss off customers who drop the kind of money on that store like my
>outfit does. If I go to the same restaurant for years, *I* expect the
>better pork chop from the cooler.

Your outfit or you, personally? How do they know you? Does the manager
know you personally, or do you just do a lot of business there and a
couple of the checkers know you by sight? Do you do a lot of warranty
returns, custom fabrications/orders?

P.S: A man who "drops that kind of money" there usually doesn't buy
from the B&D line.


>> I really think you have to take
>> responsibility for some of this for not checking it beforehand. They did
>> offer to send it for repairs.
>
>I have taken responsibility for not checking this closer. I did not
>expect them to be nit-pickers on policy like that. It was *I* who
>ventured into the UnderWorld of Black & Decker and became sorely
>disappointed in one quick hurry. MY mistake. But HD could have taken
>advantage of my dilemma and scored some major points in customer
>relations by taking care of me better... instead of "You bought
>it...OHHMYYY...missed it by ten days..OOPSIES you lose........

Have you truly taken responsibility for it? (If so, why the whine?)


>> Sorry for the lack of sympathy, but I just happen to disagree on this.
>
>I wasn't looking for sympathy, I know where to find that in the
>dictionary. I find you're a level-headed guy in your other posts here.
>There are likely many who will disagree with this. *I*, on the other
>hand, expect to be treated a bit more like I treat MY customers....
>maybe that's my mistake, but I will never compromise that.

You should thank them for teaching you an inexpensive lesson. Once
purchased, every tool or item should be inspected immediately and/or
used to verify its function/color/texture/usability. Please DAMHIKT.
<sigh>

OK, so they screwed up on the warranty period. Send a letter off and
let it go. Your health is worth far more than a vendor's inattention.

In July, I'll have 20 years of sobriety. I've found that I can get
through the largest of calamaties unscathed, but it's the little
things like this which cause me the most amount of frustration and
are the hardest to deal with. Weird, ain't it? I've learned (for the
most part) to accept it and move on, and I hope you can, too.

Thanks for the reminder this morning; my daily lesson.


----------------------------------------------
CAUTION: Driver Legally B l o n d (e)
http://www.diversify.com Web Database Development
=======================================================

On Thu, 12 May 2005 03:18:50 -0400, the inscrutable "Upscale"
<[email protected]> spake:

>"Lobby Dosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> know how they manage it, but you can walk in there and ask a fresh faced,
>> new HS grad if they've got a 7mm Ratrafratz Bolt and get told to go to
>> aisle 4, 2nd cabinet on the left, 3rd row, 2nd drawer from the left - and
>> *find* it right where they told you to look! Also the kind of place where
>> you can walk in with a problem you don't know how to solve and walk out
>> with a solution and the materials to do the job.
>
>There aren't too many places like that around anymore, but I do have to
>concede that the Home Depot I go to has many older employees and most of
>them have the experience with stuff to be able to help me out when I'm
>having a problem. The greatest difficulty that I experience is getting them
>to understand what I want to buy. It's usually some type of esoteric
>fastener of some type, just that my experience and names for something
>doesn't always match theirs.

Some helpful tips, especially for plumbing problems:

If it's a replacement part, TAKE THE PART WITH YOU to the stores or
take a digital pic and print it out. Show it to the drones so they can
point (or more likely) shrug and shake their heads.

If it's a new idea, draw it on paper and take it with you. Show it to
the older, more experienced workers rather than the younger drones.
Chances are much better that they've seen it or know of something in
stock which might work. (Unless you get the old guy in the HD plumbing
dept which had never worked there before and neither knew the stock
nor how to plumb. Instead of a 3/4-1/8" reducer, he picked out half a
dozen pieces in galv, black, and pvc which eventually ended up
somewhat close, but not exactly where I wanted to go. He caught the
nick "The Brainless Goldbergian Plumbing Drone of HD." I was so fed up
after talking to him that I put off locating the airbrush fitting
indefinitely and just went home.)

If it's existing hardware and you can't wait to get it from Lee
Valley, take the Lee Valley Tools hardware catalog with you and point
out the picture.


------
We're born hungry, wet, 'n naked, and it gets worse from there.
- http://diversify.com Website Application Programming -

Swingman wrote:
> "Robatoy" wrote in message
>
>
>>big-box bastards. They simple don't give a rat's ass. It opened my eyes.
>>And THAT is why I'm done with them. Sure they have been conveniently
>>located for my needs, but that only accounts for so much.
>
>
> Over time you do notice one consistent, overriding philosophy: they are
> there solely for the convenience and financial gratification of the
> employees and management, PERIOD
>
> Basically, I wouldn't walk into a HD if the company did not have a
> commercial charge account and the money was coming out of my pocket. The
> bastards even tried to kill me with a forklift last week, then attempted to
> blame it on me ... damn good thing I am relatively nimble for my age. That
> particular store "manager" won't forget me for a long time.
>

You were a bit faster then me:
Early January, I was delivering some goods to a local Kmart and the
bloody forklift *did* get me !!
A crushed left ankle, Trip to the local hospital, 600 km flight to Perth
and a week in Hospital to get it all fixed.
Only hung up my stick a couple of weeks ago and am getting about not to
badly now.
Moral of the story "If you pick on a forklift be prepared to come of
second best.
John

Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:

> If it's existing hardware and you can't wait to get it from Lee
> Valley, take the Lee Valley Tools hardware catalog with you and point
> out the picture.
>
>

They'd faint dead away and you'd have to slink out of the store!!