Stanley 112 and 79

Dang Andy, that's a heck of a post!

The only other thought that I can add is I do believe for a user that
sharpening it to a scary sharp edge and honed back can increase the value.
There are numerous people who like the thought of using a plane, but don't
have one, etc that would appreciate not having to figure out how to sharpen
it. It's surprising the number of weekend warriors that are wanna be master
craftsman. Plus that "count your nose hair" shininess looks cool.

Oh yeah, one more thought. You can buy Japanning paint and repaint it.
I've never used it, but there was a thread on it last week with a link to a
company in NY(?) where you can buy the paint. DON'T do this on a collector,
but maybe on a user it would make the plane look more usable to a layman.

My opinion, there are two ways to make money buying & reselling planes. One
is to get a great bargain when buying and then resell at the true value.
The other is to buy at it's true value, then add value and resell. For a
collector plane you can't add value. For a user plane there isn't much you
can do except make it more usable (sharpen the plane, general cleaning).

But basically do what Andy said.
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA

"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 04:23:42 GMT, "Michael Billings"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Hello. I've come accross a Stanley 112 scraper plane and a stanley 79
side
> >rebate plane. Both planes are well used, but in good condition. Any
> >feedback on the value of these planes?
>
> Prices of #112s have just taken a dive, now that Veritas are making a
> modern version.
>
> The #112 is a useful plane, spoilt by some design problems and some
> appalling build quality. Mine is an uncollectable junker, bought as
> "user only grade" and I think it's still the most expensive Stanley
> I've ever bought. I also hate it, and may replace it with a Veritas.
> I used to think I'd just bought a "Friday afternoon" model, but I've
> seen a lot like this - bad and non-square machining on the pivots..
>
> It's not a common plane, so the collector price is starting to get
> interesting. $150, more for the type 1. Although the Lie-Nielsen is
> better, it's expensive and there was still a trade in the old planes
> to get an affordable user.
>
> The #79 is pretty common and goes for around $50 round here. More for
> the old more decorative version. Some people reckon they're a useful
> plane, but I've never had much call for them myself. It's not really a
> side rebate plane (too big) more of an edge plane (for people who
> can't hold a bench or block plane square).
>
> >Also, any general tips on how to
> >restore old planes to increase the sale value would be greatly
appreciated.
>
> Don't.
>
> Restoration does nothing to improve the value of a collector. Bad
> restoration, or even just excessive good restoration, can reduce it.
>
> Users are generally restored by the people who want to use them.
>
> If you've a boxful of tired common planes (maybe #5s or #18 blocks)
> that you're trying to restore and then sell on as commonplace, but
> highly useful user planes, then you might want to restore them.
> There's a definite trade here in ready-to-run users where the old
> manufacture is just better than the modern stuff.
>
> Electrolysis is the way to shift rust.
>
> Paint stripper shifts paint spills (and destroys collectible old
> japanning). It also either shows cracks, or allows buyers to see
> there's no cracking. I'll buy a #10 in any state, but I'll pay more
> for one that I can see isn't broken than I would for some tar-crusted
> old banger.
>
> Don't mess with the plating.
>
> Welding is for experts. I collect broken planes, just to practice it.
>
> Old woodwork generally wears well, but the post war lacquered
> beechwood handles have a hard lacquer that flakes badly and is
> unpleasant to use. I strip these (scraper and wire wool) and refinish.
> I don't bother re-staining them for myself, but would do for sale (if
> there's any market for beechwood age).
>
> Sharpen the irons if you must, but don't worry about honing them.
> Irons are a personal thing. Mirror polish Sweethearts though - show
> that lamination.
>
> If you're a high-street shop (like Bristol Designs), then things
> change. You might have a walk-in trade of newbies who know just enough
> to want an old plane, but not enough to want to do their own
> restoration. For that trade it's maybe worth restoring the users a bit
> more.
>
>
>
>
>
> Here's part of an old posting of mine (rec.antiques) with some advice
> on eBay selling for the best price. Heed the advice on photographs
> especially !
>
>
> Broken tools are still valuable, particularly for planes. There's a
> good trade in spare parts for swapping around.
>
> Packagaing is valuable, even if tired.
>
>
> Appraisal is essential, because of the large numbers of low-end tools
> and the high prices of seemingly undistinguished models. There are
> several on-line catalogues and dating flowcharts, and rather fewer
> price guides.
>
> Just for the omnipresent Stanley planes, we have:
> http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htm
> http://www.tooltrip.com/tooltrip8/stanley/stan-bpl/bailey-types.htm
> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/9147/flowchart.html
> This should give some idea of the detail needed to identify a tool,
> and some idea of what drives the market.
>
> For the rarer makers, the communities, and the dealers, do a little
> searching of your own.
>
> The on-line woodworking community (unlike rec.antiques) is also
> generally good at discussing and appriasing potentially rare items,
> just from their interest and benevolent nature. Don't abuse it
> though, and do at least _some_ filtering beforehand.
>
> For any on-line examination, whether it's appraisal or eBay, you'll
> need photographs and a description. These are very rarely well-done,
> and it's a good way to lose value on an auction sale. The rules are
> simple and pretty obvious, but rarely observed.
>
> Photographs should be adequately large and in focus. If you need small
> thumbnails, link to a larger copy too.
>
> It's better to have too many, and too large, photographs than too few.
> Bandwidth is available to most people these days, so don't worry about
> conserving it unduly. If in doubt, photograph all sides and
> underneath, even the boring bits.
>
> Photograph and describe any damage. This is especially true of rust
> pits, cracked castings and shrunken timber.
>
> If there are accessories, or a box, then have at least one photo that
> shows them together. If you're lucky enough to have preserved that
> extra blade clamp or widget, then capitalise on it when you sell.
> Don't throw away odd bits from the bottom of the toolbox either - you
> might not recognise it, but your buyer might know that it's a rare
> (easily lost) accessory to another tool.
>
> Edges and working surfaces are crucial, and are worth photographing in
> detail. It's not usually that important if edges are damaged or worn,
> for after all, these were working tools and designed to be
> re-sharpened. It's worth noting the amount of metal left for
> re-shapening, especially for plane irons (blades). Important working
> surfaces often include flat uninteresting parts like the sole of a
> plane. If it's boringly pristine, then give us a photo of it - that's
> a good selling point and should improve the price.
>
> For moulding planes especially, make sure you photograph them cleanly
> and end-on, so as to show the shape of the moulding. Indicate their
> sizes too, either by measuring or by photographing alongside a
> commonplace scale item. A soft drinks can or CD in a case is one of
> the world's most standardised items. You can use dollar bills too,
> but don't expect American buyers to know how big a pound or euro note
> is.
>
> Owner's stamps are generally uninteresting and worthless. Maker's
> stamps can be crucial to a valuation. Even mundane things like patent
> dates, the shape of a handle, or how a maker's logo is framed can be
> crucial dating features:
> http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/quickglance.html
> http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/MedallionPage.html
>
>
>
> Best place to trade low and mid-range old tools is often eBay,
> particularly US eBay. It's a good low-margin market to shift the
> bulk, and the number of buyers means that items are rarely undersold.
> It's even a good market for disposing of high-end collectible tools,
> so long as you place a sensible reserve in case you don't get a good
> bite.
>
> Tool markets are a minefield. You're going to be haggling with experts
> who know exactly what things are worth, far better than you do. You
> might sell, bu tbe prepared beforehand with a good idea of what you're
> selling.
>
> Selling at flea markets and garage sales is either a thankless task
> for shifting rubbish, or a time to be scammed for letting your prizes
> away for a dollar. They're a buyer's market for tools, not a
> seller's.
>
>
> Don't attempt any restoration. Never attempt to sharpen anything.
> You can do huge damage unless you're skilled, and the value of an
> unrestored rarity is little different from a good condition example.
> The attributes that boost the price of a good collectible plane aren't
> generally hidden by it being in poor or unrestored condition. For the
> "user" market, most collectors would rather restore their own anyway,
> especially for sharpening.
>
>
>
> --
> Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 04:23:42 GMT, "Michael Billings"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Hello. I've come accross a Stanley 112 scraper plane and a stanley 79 side
>rebate plane. Both planes are well used, but in good condition. Any
>feedback on the value of these planes?

Prices of #112s have just taken a dive, now that Veritas are making a
modern version.

The #112 is a useful plane, spoilt by some design problems and some
appalling build quality. Mine is an uncollectable junker, bought as
"user only grade" and I think it's still the most expensive Stanley
I've ever bought. I also hate it, and may replace it with a Veritas.
I used to think I'd just bought a "Friday afternoon" model, but I've
seen a lot like this - bad and non-square machining on the pivots..

It's not a common plane, so the collector price is starting to get
interesting. $150, more for the type 1. Although the Lie-Nielsen is
better, it's expensive and there was still a trade in the old planes
to get an affordable user.

The #79 is pretty common and goes for around $50 round here. More for
the old more decorative version. Some people reckon they're a useful
plane, but I've never had much call for them myself. It's not really a
side rebate plane (too big) more of an edge plane (for people who
can't hold a bench or block plane square).

>Also, any general tips on how to
>restore old planes to increase the sale value would be greatly appreciated.

Don't.

Restoration does nothing to improve the value of a collector. Bad
restoration, or even just excessive good restoration, can reduce it.

Users are generally restored by the people who want to use them.

If you've a boxful of tired common planes (maybe #5s or #18 blocks)
that you're trying to restore and then sell on as commonplace, but
highly useful user planes, then you might want to restore them.
There's a definite trade here in ready-to-run users where the old
manufacture is just better than the modern stuff.

Electrolysis is the way to shift rust.

Paint stripper shifts paint spills (and destroys collectible old
japanning). It also either shows cracks, or allows buyers to see
there's no cracking. I'll buy a #10 in any state, but I'll pay more
for one that I can see isn't broken than I would for some tar-crusted
old banger.

Don't mess with the plating.

Welding is for experts. I collect broken planes, just to practice it.

Old woodwork generally wears well, but the post war lacquered
beechwood handles have a hard lacquer that flakes badly and is
unpleasant to use. I strip these (scraper and wire wool) and refinish.
I don't bother re-staining them for myself, but would do for sale (if
there's any market for beechwood age).

Sharpen the irons if you must, but don't worry about honing them.
Irons are a personal thing. Mirror polish Sweethearts though - show
that lamination.

If you're a high-street shop (like Bristol Designs), then things
change. You might have a walk-in trade of newbies who know just enough
to want an old plane, but not enough to want to do their own
restoration. For that trade it's maybe worth restoring the users a bit
more.





Here's part of an old posting of mine (rec.antiques) with some advice
on eBay selling for the best price. Heed the advice on photographs
especially !


Broken tools are still valuable, particularly for planes. There's a
good trade in spare parts for swapping around.

Packagaing is valuable, even if tired.


Appraisal is essential, because of the large numbers of low-end tools
and the high prices of seemingly undistinguished models. There are
several on-line catalogues and dating flowcharts, and rather fewer
price guides.

Just for the omnipresent Stanley planes, we have:
http://www.supertool.com/StanleyBG/stan0.htm
http://www.tooltrip.com/tooltrip8/stanley/stan-bpl/bailey-types.htm
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Plains/9147/flowchart.html
This should give some idea of the detail needed to identify a tool,
and some idea of what drives the market.

For the rarer makers, the communities, and the dealers, do a little
searching of your own.

The on-line woodworking community (unlike rec.antiques) is also
generally good at discussing and appriasing potentially rare items,
just from their interest and benevolent nature. Don't abuse it
though, and do at least _some_ filtering beforehand.

For any on-line examination, whether it's appraisal or eBay, you'll
need photographs and a description. These are very rarely well-done,
and it's a good way to lose value on an auction sale. The rules are
simple and pretty obvious, but rarely observed.

Photographs should be adequately large and in focus. If you need small
thumbnails, link to a larger copy too.

It's better to have too many, and too large, photographs than too few.
Bandwidth is available to most people these days, so don't worry about
conserving it unduly. If in doubt, photograph all sides and
underneath, even the boring bits.

Photograph and describe any damage. This is especially true of rust
pits, cracked castings and shrunken timber.

If there are accessories, or a box, then have at least one photo that
shows them together. If you're lucky enough to have preserved that
extra blade clamp or widget, then capitalise on it when you sell.
Don't throw away odd bits from the bottom of the toolbox either - you
might not recognise it, but your buyer might know that it's a rare
(easily lost) accessory to another tool.

Edges and working surfaces are crucial, and are worth photographing in
detail. It's not usually that important if edges are damaged or worn,
for after all, these were working tools and designed to be
re-sharpened. It's worth noting the amount of metal left for
re-shapening, especially for plane irons (blades). Important working
surfaces often include flat uninteresting parts like the sole of a
plane. If it's boringly pristine, then give us a photo of it - that's
a good selling point and should improve the price.

For moulding planes especially, make sure you photograph them cleanly
and end-on, so as to show the shape of the moulding. Indicate their
sizes too, either by measuring or by photographing alongside a
commonplace scale item. A soft drinks can or CD in a case is one of
the world's most standardised items. You can use dollar bills too,
but don't expect American buyers to know how big a pound or euro note
is.

Owner's stamps are generally uninteresting and worthless. Maker's
stamps can be crucial to a valuation. Even mundane things like patent
dates, the shape of a handle, or how a maker's logo is framed can be
crucial dating features:
http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/quickglance.html
http://www.disstonianinstitute.com/MedallionPage.html



Best place to trade low and mid-range old tools is often eBay,
particularly US eBay. It's a good low-margin market to shift the
bulk, and the number of buyers means that items are rarely undersold.
It's even a good market for disposing of high-end collectible tools,
so long as you place a sensible reserve in case you don't get a good
bite.

Tool markets are a minefield. You're going to be haggling with experts
who know exactly what things are worth, far better than you do. You
might sell, bu tbe prepared beforehand with a good idea of what you're
selling.

Selling at flea markets and garage sales is either a thankless task
for shifting rubbish, or a time to be scammed for letting your prizes
away for a dollar. They're a buyer's market for tools, not a
seller's.


Don't attempt any restoration. Never attempt to sharpen anything.
You can do huge damage unless you're skilled, and the value of an
unrestored rarity is little different from a good condition example.
The attributes that boost the price of a good collectible plane aren't
generally hidden by it being in poor or unrestored condition. For the
"user" market, most collectors would rather restore their own anyway,
especially for sharpening.



--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 14:33:43 GMT, "Larry C in Auburn, WA"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Dang Andy, that's a heck of a post!

I cheated - 2/3rd of that is a re-post of something I wrote months
back. I'm just fed up of looking for moulding planes on eBay where
the seller didn't think to take a photo from the end so you could see
what profile they cut !

Sat here and wasted good shed time for most of the morning, waiting
for the damned phone to ring. Might as well type while I'm waiting.

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods