I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law. He hasn't used
it much for some time. I tried cutting 2x4s with the blade he
recommended. It jammed the blade. I've tried cutting 1/4"
plywood, 1/2" molding, small pieces of wood, etc. It can not
cut through a whole piece of wood without stalling or jamming.
He told me I had to cut it in small increments but it takes all day to
get any thing done. I cut 1/4" depth at a time then lower the
blade and do it again just to get it to work.
I noticed the rotation of the blade seems to be slow but if I let it
sit a minute running it will start picking up speed and rotate much
faster. I suspect something is wrong with the electric motor. I've
aligned the blade several times so it is not the problem. Anyone
know what is wrong or do they really work this way? Beginning to
think I should have just bought a table saw. thanks.
In article <m%[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>>
>> That experience evidently consists only of motors and saws that draw fairly
>> little current. Are you unaware that motors draw more current during startup
>> than they do while running?
>>
>
>Indeed you are right. For example, I have no
>experience with a 3 phase 25 hp electric motors.
>But then, the subject was a saw that draws very
>little current.
And, apparently, no experience with even something as simple as a 115V
single-phase motor that draws, say, twelve or thirteen amps.
>
>Are you aware, Doug, that I don't really care what
>you have further to say?
In other words, you finally figured out I'm right.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
RogWin54 wrote:
> I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law. He hasn't used
> it much for some time. I tried cutting 2x4s with the blade he
> recommended. It jammed the blade. I've tried cutting 1/4"
> plywood, 1/2" molding, small pieces of wood, etc. It can not
> cut through a whole piece of wood without stalling or jamming.
>
> He told me I had to cut it in small increments but it takes all day to
> get any thing done. I cut 1/4" depth at a time then lower the
> blade and do it again just to get it to work.
>
> I noticed the rotation of the blade seems to be slow but if I let it
> sit a minute running it will start picking up speed and rotate much
> faster. I suspect something is wrong with the electric motor. I've
> aligned the blade several times so it is not the problem. Anyone
> know what is wrong or do they really work this way? Beginning to
> think I should have just bought a table saw. thanks.
Sounds to me like the saw is wired for 220 volts and you have it
connected to 110. Check with your father-in-law about the circuit he
had it connected to or if he had the same problem. It may have been
wired for 220 before he got it, expecially if he got it used.
Good luck.
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (RogWin54) wrote:
>
>>I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law. He hasn't used
>>it much for some time. I tried cutting 2x4s with the blade he
>>recommended. It jammed the blade. I've tried cutting 1/4"
>>plywood, 1/2" molding, small pieces of wood, etc. It can not
>>cut through a whole piece of wood without stalling or jamming.
>>
>>He tolme I had to cut it in small increments but it takes all day to
>>get any thing done. I cut 1/4" depth at a time then lower the
>>blade and do it again just to get it to work.
>
>
> You said you checked the blade alignment... how about the sharpness of the
> blade? And, while we're at it... is the blade installed correctly?
>
>>I noticed the rotation of the blade seems to be slow but if I let it
>>sit a minute running it will start picking up speed and rotate much
>>faster. I suspect something is wrong with the electric motor.
>
>
> Perhaps, but it could just as easily be the circuit that it's plugged into.
> What you describe is more or less normal behavior when trying to use a tool
> that needs a 20-amp circuit, on a 15-amp circuit.
>
>
>>I've
>>aligned the blade several times so it is not the problem. Anyone
>>know what is wrong or do they really work this way?
>
>
> Only if something's wrong. :-) Is it possible that the motor is wired
> (internally) for 240V and it's plugged into a 120V circuit?
>
>
>>Beginning to
>>think I should have just bought a table saw. thanks.
>
>
> Not even gonna think about starting *that* discussion, thank you very much.
> <grin>
>
He's talking about a radial arm saw. Not much
chance that the saw needs 20 A. It sounds exactly
like something is wrong with the motor.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Perhaps, but it could just as easily be the circuit that it's plugged
> into.
> What you describe is more or less normal behavior when trying to use a
> tool
> that needs a 20-amp circuit, on a 15-amp circuit.
Wouldn't that simply cause the brasker to trip???
Yeah, it's like you gotta cut 3 times before it works.
<grins>
-Zz
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 01:56:43 GMT, "Drew" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>This could also be caused by using an extension cord that is not rated for
>the current. I have an air compressor that will only run right if plugged
>in directly, or with a 15A extension cord. El cheapo cords won't cut it.
>
>
>"RogWin54" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law. He hasn't used
>> it much for some time. I tried cutting 2x4s with the blade he
>> recommended. It jammed the blade. I've tried cutting 1/4"
>> plywood, 1/2" molding, small pieces of wood, etc. It can not
>> cut through a whole piece of wood without stalling or jamming.
>>
>> He told me I had to cut it in small increments but it takes all day to
>> get any thing done. I cut 1/4" depth at a time then lower the
>> blade and do it again just to get it to work.
>>
>> I noticed the rotation of the blade seems to be slow but if I let it
>> sit a minute running it will start picking up speed and rotate much
>> faster. I suspect something is wrong with the electric motor. I've
>> aligned the blade several times so it is not the problem. Anyone
>> know what is wrong or do they really work this way? Beginning to
>> think I should have just bought a table saw. thanks.
>>
>
>
I would surmise that this could be a bad motor starting capacitor.
Marv
"RogWin54" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law. He hasn't used
> it much for some time. I tried cutting 2x4s with the blade he
> recommended. It jammed the blade. I've tried cutting 1/4"
> plywood, 1/2" molding, small pieces of wood, etc. It can not
> cut through a whole piece of wood without stalling or jamming.
>
> He told me I had to cut it in small increments but it takes all day to
> get any thing done. I cut 1/4" depth at a time then lower the
> blade and do it again just to get it to work.
>
> I noticed the rotation of the blade seems to be slow but if I let it
> sit a minute running it will start picking up speed and rotate much
> faster. I suspect something is wrong with the electric motor. I've
> aligned the blade several times so it is not the problem. Anyone
> know what is wrong or do they really work this way? Beginning to
> think I should have just bought a table saw. thanks.
>
Could be dull blade, backwards blade, blade not tight, bearings dry and
tight, brush motor with worn brushes, wrong voltage. You need to check each
item out to eliminate them.
"RogWin54" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law. He hasn't used
> it much for some time. I tried cutting 2x4s with the blade he
> recommended. It jammed the blade. I've tried cutting 1/4"
> plywood, 1/2" molding, small pieces of wood, etc. It can not
> cut through a whole piece of wood without stalling or jamming.
>
> He told me I had to cut it in small increments but it takes all day to
> get any thing done. I cut 1/4" depth at a time then lower the
> blade and do it again just to get it to work.
>
> I noticed the rotation of the blade seems to be slow but if I let it
> sit a minute running it will start picking up speed and rotate much
> faster. I suspect something is wrong with the electric motor. I've
> aligned the blade several times so it is not the problem. Anyone
> know what is wrong or do they really work this way? Beginning to
> think I should have just bought a table saw. thanks.
>
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Burned or worn brushes or broken brush springs could explain the motor
>> behavior but that may be just part of the problem. Simple enough to just
>> replace brushes, assuming it is a brush type motor.
>
> I could be wrong here and you seem to be an expert concerning RAS's but um
> I have not seen one that uses brushes. The only RAS motor that I have
> seen use induction motors, not universal motors.
You are. PowerKraft (Wards) saws did. 20K motors with an aux routing
spindle. Not only that, had the switch in the hand grip intead of up on the
beam. Mine's still crosscutting, but I quit ripping on it when I bought
the table saw.
The described malfunction smells like capacitor or inertial switch, though,
which would indicate an induction motor.
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Burned start switch (inertial
> switch) contacts produce slow or no starting, but once started have no
> effect on power.
How about if they do if they don't cut the windings in?
Those "older" motors wouldn't be RI would they? Seems the ancient DeWalt up
north has one.
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 04:15:51 GMT, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Zz Yzx" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> >Make sure you have the blade on right, and then buy a decent blade. You
>> >can
>>>always use it on your new TS.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Gee, I dunno' about that. I thought the rake angle was set
>> differently for the two types of saws.
>>
>It is on crosscut blades; -5 for RAS and 10 for TS. But I used 10 on my RAS
>for a while before I bought a -5 and it wasn't that big a deal. Likewise,
>a -5 would work on a TS, it just wouldn't cut as fast.
>Don't know about rip; but it seems like they ought to be the same.
>
The negative hook angle for radial arm saws is primarily for safety,
to diminish the propensity to climb that RAS exhibit.
On Thu, 09 Feb 2006 14:39:28 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>remembering my problems when I bought a used RAS... belt could also be bad or
>>loose... little sucker that didn't LOOK adjustable but was.. *g*
>
>Belt?? That's a new one on me... never saw a RAS that had the blade mounted
>any way other than directly on the motor shaft...
Yep.. surprised the hell out of me, too...
When I got my Monkey Wards Power Kraft at a garage sale, I put a new blade on it
an it cut ok, but really has the feel of a belt slipping...
It couldn't be, of course, because I'd never seen a RSAS with a belt, either, so
I didn't check that.. *lol*
Then I noticed that the center of the blade was about 3 inches below the center
of the motor and dropped the end panel.. sure as hell, a little belt about 3/8"
by maybe 8"... lol
Loosened the bolts, dropped the blade down a bit and it was good to go..
Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm
Suanne Lippman wrote:
> "RogWin54" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law. He hasn't used
>>it much for some time. I tried cutting 2x4s with the blade he
>>recommended. It jammed the blade. I've tried cutting 1/4"
>>plywood, 1/2" molding, small pieces of wood, etc. It can not
>>cut through a whole piece of wood without stalling or jamming.
>>
>>He told me I had to cut it in small increments but it takes all day to
>>get any thing done. I cut 1/4" depth at a time then lower the
>>blade and do it again just to get it to work.
>>
>>I noticed the rotation of the blade seems to be slow but if I let it
>>sit a minute running it will start picking up speed and rotate much
>>faster. I suspect something is wrong with the electric motor. I've
>>aligned the blade several times so it is not the problem. Anyone
>>know what is wrong or do they really work this way? Beginning to
>>think I should have just bought a table saw. thanks.
>>
>
> My guess it that the blade is dull. (or, (drumroll please...) on backwards)
> RAS are generally less powerful than TS, but even a feeble RAS should be
> able to cut a 2x4 easily enough.
> It is unlikely the motor would run at all if something were wrong with it.
>
> Make sure you have the blade on right, and then buy a decent blade. You can
> always use it on your new TS.
>
>
Got a point. Maybe he does have the blade on
backwards. Only two possibilities, the (1) blade
-- dull, on backwards, or something, or (2) the
motor-- burned winding, bad contacts, etc. But we
already know there something wrong with the motor
since it starts slow and takes a while to speed up.
Something is seriously wrong if he can't cut 3/4"
wood rapidly.
In article <[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>He's talking about a radial arm saw. Not much
>chance that the saw needs 20 A. It sounds exactly
>like something is wrong with the motor.
I know perfectly well what he's talking about, and it's quite *likely* that
the saw needs a circuit wired with 12-ga or heavier wire (which implies a 20A
circuit) in order for the blade to spin up quickly. A radial arm saw plugged
into a 15A circuit will behave *exactly* as the OP describes.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>, "Toller" <[email protected]>
>>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>>"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Perhaps, but it could just as easily be the circuit that it's plugged
>>>>>>into.
>>>>>>What you describe is more or less normal behavior when trying to use a
>>>>>>tool
>>>>>>that needs a 20-amp circuit, on a 15-amp circuit.
>>>>>
>>>>>Wouldn't that simply cause the brasker to trip???
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>A small overload takes a while to trip a breaker. In the meanwhile the
>>>>lights get dim and motors slow.
>>>>But most radial arm saws are only 10-13a, so it probably is not the problem;
>>>>unless the circuit had other big loads on it.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, but that's 10-13 amps _while_running_. A saw that pulls 16 or 18 amps at
>>
>>>startup will behave _exactly_ as the OP described., right down to the
>>>inability to take heavy cuts without stalling.
>>>
>>
>>Maintain your position at all costs, even if it
>>makes you look stupid.
>>
>>Have you ever owned or used a radial arm saw to
>>any extent? Doesn't sound like it.
>
>
> Do you actually have a point to make, George, or are you capable of nothing
> more than ad hominem comments? I've had a RAS for more than 20 years, it sees
> regular use... and I know from experience that it behaves in a similar manner
> to that described by the OP, when plugged into a 15A circuit. What experience,
> if any, with radial arm saws do you have, that would suggest the contrary?
>
I've made my point several times. All of my
experience with saws and electric motors suggest
the contrary.
It could be that you are running it on an excessively long 14 gauge wire
from your electric panel - The saw requires about 12 amps running, but can
draw about 20 on start-up. On a long wire it's resistance could rob you of
the power that you need. Try to connect it to a heavy extension cord plugged
into an outlet close to your electric panel or measure the voltage at the
saw with it running - if not at least 90 volts (on a 120 circuit) you have a
problem.
It could be that the blade is slipping - check the flatness of the washers
on both sides of the blade and reverse the surfaces that touch the blade. I
once had a saw with a cupped washer and if I didn't get it on right the
blade would slip.
It could be that you have the blade on backwards - This sounds like a dumb
suggestion, but I've now fixed 2 radial arm saws by turning the blade over.
They cut a lot better afterwards. One was owned by a neighbor and the other
by a guy that I worked with.
It could be that one of the capacitors in your motor is bad - some saws have
both a start capacitor and a run capacitor. They're hard to test and not
very expensive. Whenever I suspect that I have a bad one, I replace it. Your
local electric motor shop can help with the replacement, testing, etc.
--
Charley
"RogWin54" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law. He hasn't used
> it much for some time. I tried cutting 2x4s with the blade he
> recommended. It jammed the blade. I've tried cutting 1/4"
> plywood, 1/2" molding, small pieces of wood, etc. It can not
> cut through a whole piece of wood without stalling or jamming.
>
> He told me I had to cut it in small increments but it takes all day to
> get any thing done. I cut 1/4" depth at a time then lower the
> blade and do it again just to get it to work.
>
> I noticed the rotation of the blade seems to be slow but if I let it
> sit a minute running it will start picking up speed and rotate much
> faster. I suspect something is wrong with the electric motor. I've
> aligned the blade several times so it is not the problem. Anyone
> know what is wrong or do they really work this way? Beginning to
> think I should have just bought a table saw. thanks.
>
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>remembering my problems when I bought a used RAS... belt could also be bad or
>loose... little sucker that didn't LOOK adjustable but was.. *g*
Belt?? That's a new one on me... never saw a RAS that had the blade mounted
any way other than directly on the motor shaft...
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
In article <[email protected]>, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Perhaps, but it could just as easily be the circuit that it's plugged
>> into.
>> What you describe is more or less normal behavior when trying to use a
>> tool
>> that needs a 20-amp circuit, on a 15-amp circuit.
>
>Wouldn't that simply cause the brasker to trip???
Not if the motor pulls, say, 18 amps for a few seconds on startup, and 13
while running. Breakers do not normally trip under a small overload that lasts
only a short time.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Perhaps, but it could just as easily be the circuit that it's plugged
>> into.
>> What you describe is more or less normal behavior when trying to use a
>> tool
>> that needs a 20-amp circuit, on a 15-amp circuit.
>
> Wouldn't that simply cause the brasker to trip???
>
A small overload takes a while to trip a breaker. In the meanwhile the
lights get dim and motors slow.
But most radial arm saws are only 10-13a, so it probably is not the problem;
unless the circuit had other big loads on it.
RogWin54 wrote:
> I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law. He hasn't used
> it much for some time. I tried cutting 2x4s with the blade he
> recommended. It jammed the blade. I've tried cutting 1/4"
> plywood, 1/2" molding, small pieces of wood, etc. It can not
> cut through a whole piece of wood without stalling or jamming.
>
> He told me I had to cut it in small increments but it takes all day to
> get any thing done. I cut 1/4" depth at a time then lower the
> blade and do it again just to get it to work.
>
> I noticed the rotation of the blade seems to be slow but if I let it
> sit a minute running it will start picking up speed and rotate much
> faster. I suspect something is wrong with the electric motor. I've
> aligned the blade several times so it is not the problem. Anyone
> know what is wrong or do they really work this way? Beginning to
> think I should have just bought a table saw. thanks.
It -might- be your motor, but electric motors are usually go/no-go. Does it
make horrible squealing noises, like say, a bad bearing?
Make sure the plug and all electrical connections are good. If the motor
gets really hot, you may have a short inside. You may want to take the
motor apart if you're knowledgable about doing that, or take it to an
electric motor shop. It'll still be cheaper than a new saw.
Check the voltage, as someone else has mentioned. It should be stamped on
the motor. If it's switchable, make sure it's wired for the voltage you've
plugged it into. Also, make sure the motor is rated for 60 Hz (or whatever
your local frequency is), and it's not some funky import or custom saw.
You can go to owwm.com to see if they have the manual for your saw there on
line. You could've also posted the model here, as others may have one like
yours.
--
Michael White "To protect people from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools." -Herbert Spencer
"Zz Yzx" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Make sure you have the blade on right, and then buy a decent blade. You
> >can
>>always use it on your new TS.
>>
>
>
> Gee, I dunno' about that. I thought the rake angle was set
> differently for the two types of saws.
>
It is on crosscut blades; -5 for RAS and 10 for TS. But I used 10 on my RAS
for a while before I bought a -5 and it wasn't that big a deal. Likewise,
a -5 would work on a TS, it just wouldn't cut as fast.
Don't know about rip; but it seems like they ought to be the same.
"George" <George@least> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> You are. PowerKraft (Wards) saws did. 20K motors with an aux routing
> spindle. Not only that, had the switch in the hand grip intead of up on
> the beam. Mine's still crosscutting, but I quit ripping on it when I
> bought the table saw.
>
> The described malfunction smells like capacitor or inertial switch,
> though, which would indicate an induction motor.
Well I should have said, that most are induction and that ones with brushes
were an exception. I am with you on the thoughts of what may be wrong.
Motors with brushes are probably about as rare as TS with the flexible shaft
drive. They are out there but not the norm. Totally discounting however
the knot head on "Woodworking" that thinks his Sliding CMS is a RAS.
George wrote:
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>Burned or worn brushes or broken brush springs could explain the motor
>>>behavior but that may be just part of the problem. Simple enough to just
>>>replace brushes, assuming it is a brush type motor.
>>
>>I could be wrong here and you seem to be an expert concerning RAS's but um
>>I have not seen one that uses brushes. The only RAS motor that I have
>>seen use induction motors, not universal motors.
>
>
> You are. PowerKraft (Wards) saws did. 20K motors with an aux routing
> spindle. Not only that, had the switch in the hand grip intead of up on the
> beam. Mine's still crosscutting, but I quit ripping on it when I bought
> the table saw.
>
> The described malfunction smells like capacitor or inertial switch, though,
> which would indicate an induction motor.
>
>
Yep, Wards used universal motors. But I have
several older fractional motors that use brushes.
Some motor types in addition to universal
motors use brushes, and bad brushes in one of my
fractional motors (1/2hp I think) produced much
the same symptom (one really messed up brush and
spring contact). Burned start switch (inertial
switch) contacts produce slow or no starting, but
once started have no effect on power.
In article <[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <m%[email protected]>, "George
> E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>That experience evidently consists only of motors and saws that draw fairly
>>>>little current. Are you unaware that motors draw more current during startup
>
>>>>than they do while running?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Indeed you are right. For example, I have no
>>>experience with a 3 phase 25 hp electric motors.
>>>But then, the subject was a saw that draws very
>>>little current.
>>
>>
>> And, apparently, no experience with even something as simple as a 115V
>> single-phase motor that draws, say, twelve or thirteen amps.
>>
>>>Are you aware, Doug, that I don't really care what
>>>you have further to say?
>>
>>
>> In other words, you finally figured out I'm right.
>>
>Wrong again, I wasn't going to say it but you just
>can't stop your self, so here is what I figured
>out: you are an ass! Good-bye.
There you go again, George: wrong but won't admit it. If something I said is
not correct... point out the error. But you can't. All you can do is call
names. How very mature of you.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
"RogWin54" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law. He hasn't used
> it much for some time. I tried cutting 2x4s with the blade he
> recommended. It jammed the blade. I've tried cutting 1/4"
> plywood, 1/2" molding, small pieces of wood, etc. It can not
> cut through a whole piece of wood without stalling or jamming.
>
> He told me I had to cut it in small increments but it takes all day to
> get any thing done. I cut 1/4" depth at a time then lower the
> blade and do it again just to get it to work.
>
> I noticed the rotation of the blade seems to be slow but if I let it
> sit a minute running it will start picking up speed and rotate much
> faster. I suspect something is wrong with the electric motor. I've
> aligned the blade several times so it is not the problem. Anyone
> know what is wrong or do they really work this way? Beginning to
> think I should have just bought a table saw. thanks.
>
My guess it that the blade is dull. (or, (drumroll please...) on backwards)
RAS are generally less powerful than TS, but even a feeble RAS should be
able to cut a 2x4 easily enough.
It is unlikely the motor would run at all if something were wrong with it.
Make sure you have the blade on right, and then buy a decent blade. You can
always use it on your new TS.
In article <[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, "Toller" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>
>>>"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>>Perhaps, but it could just as easily be the circuit that it's plugged
>>>>>into.
>>>>>What you describe is more or less normal behavior when trying to use a
>>>>>tool
>>>>>that needs a 20-amp circuit, on a 15-amp circuit.
>>>>
>>>>Wouldn't that simply cause the brasker to trip???
>>>>
>>>
>>>A small overload takes a while to trip a breaker. In the meanwhile the
>>>lights get dim and motors slow.
>>>But most radial arm saws are only 10-13a, so it probably is not the problem;
>>>unless the circuit had other big loads on it.
>>
>>
>> Yes, but that's 10-13 amps _while_running_. A saw that pulls 16 or 18 amps at
>
>> startup will behave _exactly_ as the OP described., right down to the
>> inability to take heavy cuts without stalling.
>>
>Maintain your position at all costs, even if it
>makes you look stupid.
>
>Have you ever owned or used a radial arm saw to
>any extent? Doesn't sound like it.
Do you actually have a point to make, George, or are you capable of nothing
more than ad hominem comments? I've had a RAS for more than 20 years, it sees
regular use... and I know from experience that it behaves in a similar manner
to that described by the OP, when plugged into a 15A circuit. What experience,
if any, with radial arm saws do you have, that would suggest the contrary?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
In article <[email protected]>, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> Perhaps, but it could just as easily be the circuit that it's plugged
>>> into.
>>> What you describe is more or less normal behavior when trying to use a
>>> tool
>>> that needs a 20-amp circuit, on a 15-amp circuit.
>>
>> Wouldn't that simply cause the brasker to trip???
>>
>A small overload takes a while to trip a breaker. In the meanwhile the
>lights get dim and motors slow.
>But most radial arm saws are only 10-13a, so it probably is not the problem;
>unless the circuit had other big loads on it.
Yes, but that's 10-13 amps _while_running_. A saw that pulls 16 or 18 amps at
startup will behave _exactly_ as the OP described., right down to the
inability to take heavy cuts without stalling.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
> This could also be caused by using an extension cord that is not rated for
> the current.
Yah, could be except sounds like the father-in-law had the same problem.
Maybe cord to motor has broken strands, switch could be bad, are bearings
binding? either of these should cause the reset button on the motor to trip.
I have a 30+ year old Craftsman RAS that cuts fine only problem is watching
that it doesn't pull its' self into the work too fast and stall on heavy
stuff, especially Oak. Was going to say it is on a 15 amp circuit but I
believe it is now on a 20 amp.
Walt Conner
Rake angles for radial arm saw blade are negative. Try that same negative
rake blade for cutting MDF on a tablesaw. Works great for that. Does not do
so well on real wood though.
"Zz Yzx" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
>
>
> Gee, I dunno' about that. I thought the rake angle was set
> differently for the two types of saws.
>
> -Zz
George wrote:
> "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> Burned start switch (inertial
>
>>switch) contacts produce slow or no starting, but once started have no
>>effect on power.
>
>
> How about if they do if they don't cut the windings in?
Don't know what you are saying. If the contacts
are poor the start winding isn't energized, so it
doesn't start (without help), but once the motor
starts turning the winding is not energized if the
centrifugal mechanism is working.
>
> Those "older" motors wouldn't be RI would they? Seems the ancient DeWalt up
> north has one.
I assume they are RI motors.
>
>
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (RogWin54) wrote:
>I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law. He hasn't used
>it much for some time. I tried cutting 2x4s with the blade he
>recommended. It jammed the blade. I've tried cutting 1/4"
>plywood, 1/2" molding, small pieces of wood, etc. It can not
>cut through a whole piece of wood without stalling or jamming.
>
>He tolme I had to cut it in small increments but it takes all day to
>get any thing done. I cut 1/4" depth at a time then lower the
>blade and do it again just to get it to work.
You said you checked the blade alignment... how about the sharpness of the
blade? And, while we're at it... is the blade installed correctly?
>
>I noticed the rotation of the blade seems to be slow but if I let it
>sit a minute running it will start picking up speed and rotate much
>faster. I suspect something is wrong with the electric motor.
Perhaps, but it could just as easily be the circuit that it's plugged into.
What you describe is more or less normal behavior when trying to use a tool
that needs a 20-amp circuit, on a 15-amp circuit.
> I've
>aligned the blade several times so it is not the problem. Anyone
>know what is wrong or do they really work this way?
Only if something's wrong. :-) Is it possible that the motor is wired
(internally) for 240V and it's plugged into a 120V circuit?
>Beginning to
>think I should have just bought a table saw. thanks.
Not even gonna think about starting *that* discussion, thank you very much.
<grin>
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
I have seen one (1) RAS with a belt, can't remember the brand now it was
some foreign make though. The motor was offset from the blade arbor about
1 1/2 inch or so. ( take a look at an old Milwaukee miter saw) It seemed
like a good idea to me, allowed you to change motors with out having to buy
a special set up and should have been cheaper to make, standard motor
instead of custom set up.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] wrote:
>
> >remembering my problems when I bought a used RAS... belt could also be
bad or
> >loose... little sucker that didn't LOOK adjustable but was.. *g*
>
> Belt?? That's a new one on me... never saw a RAS that had the blade
mounted
> any way other than directly on the motor shaft...
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <m%[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>That experience evidently consists only of motors and saws that draw fairly
>>>little current. Are you unaware that motors draw more current during startup
>>>than they do while running?
>>>
>>
>>Indeed you are right. For example, I have no
>>experience with a 3 phase 25 hp electric motors.
>>But then, the subject was a saw that draws very
>>little current.
>
>
> And, apparently, no experience with even something as simple as a 115V
> single-phase motor that draws, say, twelve or thirteen amps.
>
>>Are you aware, Doug, that I don't really care what
>>you have further to say?
>
>
> In other words, you finally figured out I'm right.
>
Wrong again, I wasn't going to say it but you just
can't stop your self, so here is what I figured
out: you are an ass! Good-bye.
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 00:00:42 GMT, [email protected] (RogWin54) wrote:
>I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law. He hasn't used
>it much for some time. I tried cutting 2x4s with the blade he
>recommended. It jammed the blade. I've tried cutting 1/4"
>plywood, 1/2" molding, small pieces of wood, etc. It can not
>cut through a whole piece of wood without stalling or jamming.
>
>He told me I had to cut it in small increments but it takes all day to
>get any thing done. I cut 1/4" depth at a time then lower the
>blade and do it again just to get it to work.
>
>I noticed the rotation of the blade seems to be slow but if I let it
>sit a minute running it will start picking up speed and rotate much
>faster. I suspect something is wrong with the electric motor. I've
>aligned the blade several times so it is not the problem. Anyone
>know what is wrong or do they really work this way? Beginning to
>think I should have just bought a table saw. thanks.
remembering my problems when I bought a used RAS... belt could also be bad or
loose... little sucker that didn't LOOK adjustable but was.. *g*
Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "Toller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>Perhaps, but it could just as easily be the circuit that it's plugged
>>>>into.
>>>>What you describe is more or less normal behavior when trying to use a
>>>>tool
>>>>that needs a 20-amp circuit, on a 15-amp circuit.
>>>
>>>Wouldn't that simply cause the brasker to trip???
>>>
>>
>>A small overload takes a while to trip a breaker. In the meanwhile the
>>lights get dim and motors slow.
>>But most radial arm saws are only 10-13a, so it probably is not the problem;
>>unless the circuit had other big loads on it.
>
>
> Yes, but that's 10-13 amps _while_running_. A saw that pulls 16 or 18 amps at
> startup will behave _exactly_ as the OP described., right down to the
> inability to take heavy cuts without stalling.
>
Maintain your position at all costs, even if it
makes you look stupid.
Have you ever owned or used a radial arm saw to
any extent? Doesn't sound like it.
"Suanne Lippman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
> My guess it that the blade is dull. (or, (drumroll please...) on
> backwards)
Possibly.
> RAS are generally less powerful than TS, but even a feeble RAS should be
> able to cut a 2x4 easily enough.
Huh?? HP rating dictates that. You have to compare apples to apples. You
could just as easily say that a TS is generally less powerful than a RAS.
> It is unlikely the motor would run at all if something were wrong with it.
>
> Make sure you have the blade on right, and then buy a decent blade. You
> can always use it on your new TS.
Not likely. If buying a common TS blade and using on a RAS the results may
be the same as described by the OP.
"RogWin54" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law. He hasn't used
> it much for some time. I tried cutting 2x4s with the blade he
> recommended. It jammed the blade. I've tried cutting 1/4"
> plywood, 1/2" molding, small pieces of wood, etc. It can not
> cut through a whole piece of wood without stalling or jamming.
>
> He told me I had to cut it in small increments but it takes all day to
> get any thing done. I cut 1/4" depth at a time then lower the
> blade and do it again just to get it to work.
>
> I noticed the rotation of the blade seems to be slow but if I let it
> sit a minute running it will start picking up speed and rotate much
> faster. I suspect something is wrong with the electric motor. I've
> aligned the blade several times so it is not the problem. Anyone
> know what is wrong or do they really work this way? Beginning to
> think I should have just bought a table saw. thanks.
In addition to all the other excellent suggestions, check the brushes in the
motor.
I replaced all extension cords in my shop with 10 ga cords years ago so I
never have to worry about what's plugged in where.
gwidman
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 00:00:42 GMT, [email protected] (RogWin54) wrote:
>I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law.
So what are the chances we're ever going to learn what the problem was
and how you solved it?
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
email addy de-spam-ified due to 1,000 spams per month.
If you can't figure out how to use it, I probably wouldn't
care to correspond with you anyway.
"George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Burned or worn brushes or broken brush springs could explain the motor
> behavior but that may be just part of the problem. Simple enough to just
> replace brushes, assuming it is a brush type motor.
I could be wrong here and you seem to be an expert concerning RAS's but um I
have not seen one that uses brushes. The only RAS motor that I have seen
use induction motors, not universal motors.
In article <[email protected]>, "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
> "George E. Cawthon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <[email protected]>, "Toller"
> <[email protected]>
>>>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>>"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Perhaps, but it could just as easily be the circuit that it's plugged
>>>>>>>into.
>>>>>>>What you describe is more or less normal behavior when trying to use a
>>>>>>>tool
>>>>>>>that needs a 20-amp circuit, on a 15-amp circuit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wouldn't that simply cause the brasker to trip???
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>A small overload takes a while to trip a breaker. In the meanwhile the
>>>>>lights get dim and motors slow.
>>>>>But most radial arm saws are only 10-13a, so it probably is not the
> problem;
>>>>>unless the circuit had other big loads on it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Yes, but that's 10-13 amps _while_running_. A saw that pulls 16 or 18 amps
> at
>>>
>>>>startup will behave _exactly_ as the OP described., right down to the
>>>>inability to take heavy cuts without stalling.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Maintain your position at all costs, even if it
>>>makes you look stupid.
>>>
>>>Have you ever owned or used a radial arm saw to
>>>any extent? Doesn't sound like it.
>>
>>
>> Do you actually have a point to make, George, or are you capable of nothing
>> more than ad hominem comments? I've had a RAS for more than 20 years, it sees
>
>> regular use... and I know from experience that it behaves in a similar manner
>
>> to that described by the OP, when plugged into a 15A circuit. What
> experience,
>> if any, with radial arm saws do you have, that would suggest the contrary?
>>
>
>I've made my point several times.
No, actually, you haven't made any point at all, other than to contradict what
I've said, without offering anything to back it up.
>All of my
>experience with saws and electric motors suggest
>the contrary.
That experience evidently consists only of motors and saws that draw fairly
little current. Are you unaware that motors draw more current during startup
than they do while running?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.
Gwidman wrote:
> "RogWin54" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law. He hasn't used
>>it much for some time. I tried cutting 2x4s with the blade he
>>recommended. It jammed the blade. I've tried cutting 1/4"
>>plywood, 1/2" molding, small pieces of wood, etc. It can not
>>cut through a whole piece of wood without stalling or jamming.
>>
>>He told me I had to cut it in small increments but it takes all day to
>>get any thing done. I cut 1/4" depth at a time then lower the
>>blade and do it again just to get it to work.
>>
>>I noticed the rotation of the blade seems to be slow but if I let it
>>sit a minute running it will start picking up speed and rotate much
>>faster. I suspect something is wrong with the electric motor. I've
>>aligned the blade several times so it is not the problem. Anyone
>>know what is wrong or do they really work this way? Beginning to
>>think I should have just bought a table saw. thanks.
>
>
>
> In addition to all the other excellent suggestions, check the brushes in the
> motor.
>
> I replaced all extension cords in my shop with 10 ga cords years ago so I
> never have to worry about what's plugged in where.
>
> gwidman
>
>
>
Burned or worn brushes or broken brush springs
could explain the motor behavior but that may be
just part of the problem. Simple enough to just
replace brushes, assuming it is a brush type motor.
Leon wrote:
> "Suanne Lippman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>My guess it that the blade is dull. (or, (drumroll please...) on
>>backwards)
>
>
> Possibly.
>
>
>>RAS are generally less powerful than TS, but even a feeble RAS should be
>>able to cut a 2x4 easily enough.
>
>
> Huh?? HP rating dictates that. You have to compare apples to apples. You
> could just as easily say that a TS is generally less powerful than a RAS.
You could say that, but it wouldn't be true.
>
>
>
>>It is unlikely the motor would run at all if something were wrong with it.
>>
>>Make sure you have the blade on right, and then buy a decent blade. You
>>can always use it on your new TS.
>
>
> Not likely. If buying a common TS blade and using on a RAS the results may
> be the same as described by the OP.
Likely. I have never bought a blade specifically
for my radial arm saw, in fact, I doubt that they
even made special blades when I bought my RAS. I
never saw a Wards or Sears blade that said it was
for a RAS. I have always used the same blades on
my radial arm saw and table saw.
Using a table saw blade on a RAS does not result
in what the OP described.
Not to put a fine point on it, but since most
people here hate RAS and don't have them, where do
people come up with all this nonsense about RAS?
Doug Miller wrote:
>
>
> That experience evidently consists only of motors and saws that draw fairly
> little current. Are you unaware that motors draw more current during startup
> than they do while running?
>
Indeed you are right. For example, I have no
experience with a 3 phase 25 hp electric motors.
But then, the subject was a saw that draws very
little current.
Are you aware, Doug, that I don't really care what
you have further to say?
On Wed, 08 Feb 2006 00:00:42 GMT, [email protected] (RogWin54) wrote:
Lets keep it simple... is the blade installed with the teeth in the correct
direction...
I'm one of many people that have admitted this mistake... it's backwards from
most saws so pay close attention to the arrows on the blade...
The teeth on the bottom of the blade as you're making your cut should be facing
away from you, towards the fence..
>I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law. He hasn't used
>it much for some time. I tried cutting 2x4s with the blade he
>recommended. It jammed the blade. I've tried cutting 1/4"
>plywood, 1/2" molding, small pieces of wood, etc. It can not
>cut through a whole piece of wood without stalling or jamming.
>
>He told me I had to cut it in small increments but it takes all day to
>get any thing done. I cut 1/4" depth at a time then lower the
>blade and do it again just to get it to work.
>
>I noticed the rotation of the blade seems to be slow but if I let it
>sit a minute running it will start picking up speed and rotate much
>faster. I suspect something is wrong with the electric motor. I've
>aligned the blade several times so it is not the problem. Anyone
>know what is wrong or do they really work this way? Beginning to
>think I should have just bought a table saw. thanks.
Mac
https://home.comcast.net/~mac.davis/wood_stuff.htm
This could also be caused by using an extension cord that is not rated for
the current. I have an air compressor that will only run right if plugged
in directly, or with a 15A extension cord. El cheapo cords won't cut it.
"RogWin54" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law. He hasn't used
> it much for some time. I tried cutting 2x4s with the blade he
> recommended. It jammed the blade. I've tried cutting 1/4"
> plywood, 1/2" molding, small pieces of wood, etc. It can not
> cut through a whole piece of wood without stalling or jamming.
>
> He told me I had to cut it in small increments but it takes all day to
> get any thing done. I cut 1/4" depth at a time then lower the
> blade and do it again just to get it to work.
>
> I noticed the rotation of the blade seems to be slow but if I let it
> sit a minute running it will start picking up speed and rotate much
> faster. I suspect something is wrong with the electric motor. I've
> aligned the blade several times so it is not the problem. Anyone
> know what is wrong or do they really work this way? Beginning to
> think I should have just bought a table saw. thanks.
>
This could also be caused by using an extension cord that is not rated for
the current. I have an air compressor that will only run right if plugged
in directly, or with a 15A extension cord. El cheapo cords won't cut it.
"RogWin54" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law. He hasn't used
> it much for some time. I tried cutting 2x4s with the blade he
> recommended. It jammed the blade. I've tried cutting 1/4"
> plywood, 1/2" molding, small pieces of wood, etc. It can not
> cut through a whole piece of wood without stalling or jamming.
>
> He told me I had to cut it in small increments but it takes all day to
> get any thing done. I cut 1/4" depth at a time then lower the
> blade and do it again just to get it to work.
>
> I noticed the rotation of the blade seems to be slow but if I let it
> sit a minute running it will start picking up speed and rotate much
> faster. I suspect something is wrong with the electric motor. I've
> aligned the blade several times so it is not the problem. Anyone
> know what is wrong or do they really work this way? Beginning to
> think I should have just bought a table saw. thanks.
>
This could also be caused by using an extension cord that is not rated for
the current. I have an air compressor that will only run right if plugged
in directly, or with a 15A extension cord. El cheapo cords won't cut it.
"RogWin54" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I got an older radial arm saw from my father-in-law. He hasn't used
> it much for some time. I tried cutting 2x4s with the blade he
> recommended. It jammed the blade. I've tried cutting 1/4"
> plywood, 1/2" molding, small pieces of wood, etc. It can not
> cut through a whole piece of wood without stalling or jamming.
>
> He told me I had to cut it in small increments but it takes all day to
> get any thing done. I cut 1/4" depth at a time then lower the
> blade and do it again just to get it to work.
>
> I noticed the rotation of the blade seems to be slow but if I let it
> sit a minute running it will start picking up speed and rotate much
> faster. I suspect something is wrong with the electric motor. I've
> aligned the blade several times so it is not the problem. Anyone
> know what is wrong or do they really work this way? Beginning to
> think I should have just bought a table saw. thanks.
>
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>Wouldn't that simply cause the brasker to trip???
>
> Not if the motor pulls, say, 18 amps for a few seconds on startup, and 13
> while running. Breakers do not normally trip under a small overload that
> lasts
> only a short time.
I agree but I was under the impression that you thinking that the saw was
pulling 20 amp all the time. I would think that with all the stalling, the
motor would blow the breaker.