An

"AL"

08/07/2004 4:24 AM

Electrical conduit on the floor ?

I want to run EMT conduit along my concrete floor to power my lathe. The
arrangement is such that I'm not worried about someone tripping over it.
But it is possible that water could leak because of a broken pipe, hole in
the roof, etc. and come into contact with the wiring. I plan on using
compression fittings and making the conduit as water tight as I can.

Does anyone know if the national electrical code permits installing conduit
on the floor? I borrowed the 2002 NEC Handbook from the local library, but
I can't find any mention of where conduit should be installed. The book is
1200 pages and the index didn't help. Which chapter should I look in?


This topic has 44 replies

GC

Gary Coffman

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

13/07/2004 1:08 PM

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:07:19 -0400, "Shawn" <shawn_75ATcomcastDOTnet> wrote:
>"frank" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> There has been aluminum EMT.
>>
>> It is rather famous for destruction of concrete buildings where it has been
>> embedded in concrete.
>>
>> I cannot recall if the best book on the subject is "Design and Construction
>> Failure" or "Construction Failure" or "Why Buildings Fall Down", or one of
>>the similar books. But one of them has a good piece on it.
>>
>
>How does aluminum damage concrete?

It sets up a galvanic couple with iron rebar, with the result that the
rebar is rapidly corroded away, weakening the concrete structure.
Concrete is alkaline, and it never really completely dries, so it acts
as the electrolyte of the corrosion cell.

Gary

NW

"Nate Weber"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

08/07/2004 12:26 AM

"AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:l04Hc.41211$MB3.12550@attbi_s04...
> I want to run EMT conduit along my concrete floor to power my lathe. The
> arrangement is such that I'm not worried about someone tripping over it.
> But it is possible that water could leak because of a broken pipe, hole in
> the roof, etc. and come into contact with the wiring. I plan on using
> compression fittings and making the conduit as water tight as I can.
>
> Does anyone know if the national electrical code permits installing
conduit
> on the floor? I borrowed the 2002 NEC Handbook from the local library,
but
> I can't find any mention of where conduit should be installed. The book
is
> 1200 pages and the index didn't help. Which chapter should I look in?
>
>
Article 358 contains the requirements for installing EMT.
I would be concerned with 358.12(1) which states that
EMT is not permitted in areas subject to severe physical
damage. That right there would cause me to run IMC or
RMC on floors.
To take care of the water, make sure the wire you use is
listed as THWN. Table 310.13 has all the types of wires
and where they can be used.

Nate

--
http://www.Weber-Automation.net:8000

Gg

Gunner

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

09/07/2004 7:52 AM

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 23:53:11 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>"TeamCasa" <[email protected]> writes:
>>EMT should not come in contact with a floor as it will rust. If you can keep
>>it above the floor/away from moisture it should be fine.
>
>EMT is galvanized.
>
>scott

And it still rusts when in contact with wet concrete floors. Or wet
ground

Gunner

"The entire population of Great Britain has been declared insane by
their government. It is believed that should any one of them come in
possession of a firearm, he will immediately start to foam at the
mouth and begin kiling children at the nearest school. The proof of
their insanity is that they actually believe this."
-- someone in misc.survivalism

gG

in reply to Gunner on 09/07/2004 7:52 AM

09/07/2004 2:51 PM

>And it still rusts when in contact with wet concrete floors. Or wet
>ground

I would think that the floor of a wood shop would be kept dry. Water is
certainly going to hurt your materials long before it attacks EMT.

BL

Bruce L. Bergman

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

09/07/2004 4:30 AM

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 23:53:11 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:

>"TeamCasa" <[email protected]> writes:
>>EMT should not come in contact with a floor as it will rust. If you can keep
>>it above the floor/away from moisture it should be fine.
>
>EMT is galvanized.

Tell that to the people who try to bury EMT outside - that
galvanized coating won't last long at all in constantly wet
conditions. I have two buildings that let amateurs do their repairs
and are going to have to dig up 250'+ each of EMT buried about 3" down
under the lawn...

(One was the pool man redoing the pool lights wrong, and the other
was the original developer cheaping out on the outside lighting.)

EMT should be fine going across the floor of your shop to the
machines as long as it's not constantly wet, and running from the wall
behind the machine - not across a normally accessed aisle and
presenting a tripping hazard.

We're talking about a home shop, you don't need to make it
thoroughly bulletproof like you would in a commercial shop. For a
business, you'd cut and trench the floor and place PVC conduit under
the slab to each machine location, and convert to a Rigid coupling (or
place a rated floor box) where it pokes through the floor...

The suggestion to make the conduit one-piece across the floor (down,
across, and up with one stick) is a good one, because even raintight
couplings will leak if they are submerged - and the normal cast-zinc
couplings break easily if they get any sort of abuse, which would let
moisture inside easily. If you can find them, get the steel fittings.

Use THWN wire in the pipe, even if it gets wet it will last for
several years.

--<< Bruce >>--
--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Ss

"Shawn"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

12/07/2004 9:07 PM


"frank" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> There has been aluminum EMT.
>
> It is rather famous for destruction of concrete buildings where it has
been
> embedded in
> concrete.
>
> I cannot recall if the best book on the subject is "Design and
Construction
> Failure" or
> "Construction Failure" or "Why Buildings Fall Down", or one of the similar
> books. But
> one of them has a good piece on it.
>

How does aluminum damage concrete?

LH

Lewis Hartswick

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

13/07/2004 2:17 AM

[email protected] wrote:
>
> There are several types of metal conduit - the most common being EMT
> (zinc electoplated steel in most cases, cold galvanized in others) ,
> Rigid conduit (heavy walled steel conduit) and aluminum
> conduit(similar to rigid but "soft" aluminum)
> EMT, or Electro Metalic Tubing is connected with clamps and sleaves -
> it is too thin to thread.
> Rigid and aluminum comduits are generally threaded.
>

Back when I was doing wiring there was a new product just comming out
called IMT ( I think ) Intermediat Metalic Tubing. Is it still around?
...lew...

Td

"TeamCasa"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

08/07/2004 4:00 PM

EMT should not come in contact with a floor as it will rust. If you can keep
it above the floor/away from moisture it should be fine.

Dave


"AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:l04Hc.41211$MB3.12550@attbi_s04...
> I want to run EMT conduit along my concrete floor to power my lathe. The
> arrangement is such that I'm not worried about someone tripping over it.
> But it is possible that water could leak because of a broken pipe, hole in
> the roof, etc. and come into contact with the wiring. I plan on using
> compression fittings and making the conduit as water tight as I can.
>
> Does anyone know if the national electrical code permits installing
conduit
> on the floor? I borrowed the 2002 NEC Handbook from the local library,
but
> I can't find any mention of where conduit should be installed. The book
is
> 1200 pages and the index didn't help. Which chapter should I look in?
>
>



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HS

"Harold & Susan Vordos"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

10/07/2004 3:02 PM


"Randy H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:QH5Hc.56925$Yu.11128@fed1read04...
> . >I'd suggest
> > checking with your local inspection department.
>
> I second that.
>
> I'm having problems with the fire dept. over code. The bottom line is what
> ever the inspector will except. The code is often left up to the
inspectors
> "interpretation" of said code. It's his way or the high way.

If you have one of those hard-nosed inspectors that likes to jerk you
around, tell him to put it in writing and sign and date it. That can get
them to back off if they aren't enforcing code, but their own desires.
You'd be surprised how often they have no authority to make you do things
the way they want. It's an old ploy those that have an attitude use to run
you in circles. Once they sign it and it's not necessary for code
compliance, you have them in your palms, assuming the local government isn't
totally corrupt. That's something I learned from an old acquaintance that
worked as a wireman for the majority of his life.

Harold

HS

"Harold & Susan Vordos"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

10/07/2004 3:07 PM


"Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "TeamCasa" <[email protected]> writes:
> >EMT should not come in contact with a floor as it will rust. If you can
keep
> >it above the floor/away from moisture it should be fine.
>
> EMT is galvanized.
>
Aluminized, actually.

Harold

HS

"Harold & Susan Vordos"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

10/07/2004 3:10 PM


"John Manders" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Can't you run the cable across the ceiling and then drop down to your
lathe?
>
> John

That would certainly be my choice, assuming it's possible under the
circumstances.

Harold

HS

"Harold & Susan Vordos"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

10/07/2004 11:13 PM


"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Somebody wrote:
>
> >EMT is galvanized.
>
> Sorry Charlie, but only the best get to be Star Kissed.
>
> EMT is definitely NOT galvanized.
>
>
> --
> Lew
>
> S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the
Southland)
> Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures
>
>
Could be you and I have egg on our faces. I am almost certain I have seen
stickers on some EMT that says it is aluminized, but I'll be damned if I can
find anything that indicates I'm right when I do a search on the web.
Maybe my next trip to an electrical supply warehouse will bear fruit.

Harold

Harold

Gg

"George"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

13/07/2004 2:46 PM

Yep. Still remember the windows in our former embassy in Cuba, where steel
screws had been used to attach aluminum. The more electronegative was eaten
up to an inch clear away, leaving the screws to finally rust in the salt air
while we were away.

That's why they galvanize instead of use lead paint under your car.

I'm going to bet, however, that the interior of the conduit has enough room
for the developed aluminum oxide.

"Ned Simmons" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> > On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:07:19 -0400, "Shawn" <shawn_75ATcomcastDOTnet>
wrote:
> > >How does aluminum damage concrete?
> >
> > It sets up a galvanic couple with iron rebar, with the result that the
> > rebar is rapidly corroded away, weakening the concrete structure.
> > Concrete is alkaline, and it never really completely dries, so it acts
> > as the electrolyte of the corrosion cell.
> >
>
> Aluminum is lower in the galvanic series, so it's more
> likely the aluminum expands as it corrodes, stressing the
> concrete.
>
> Ned Simmons

bB

[email protected] (Bob Edwards)

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

11/07/2004 2:37 AM

"AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<l04Hc.41211$MB3.12550@attbi_s04>...
> I want to run EMT conduit along my concrete floor to power my lathe. The
> arrangement is such that I'm not worried about someone tripping over it.
> But it is possible that water could leak because of a broken pipe, hole in
> the roof, etc. and come into contact with the wiring. I plan on using
> compression fittings and making the conduit as water tight as I can.
>
> Does anyone know if the national electrical code permits installing conduit
> on the floor? I borrowed the 2002 NEC Handbook from the local library, but
> I can't find any mention of where conduit should be installed. The book is
> 1200 pages and the index didn't help. Which chapter should I look in?

Use LiquidTite conduit if there is any chance of standing or running
water. As long as it isn't a trip hazard, the inspector shouldn't
have any problems with it. We used to use it all the time for power
runs under raised computer-room floors, where there was a chance of
water if and when the HVAC system leaked, or in one case, the roof on
an old building.

You should have a short length of flex at the machine end, anyway, if
you use rigid conduit -- with liquid-tite, you don't need to bother
with that, so saves you a bit of trouble there.

Regards,

Bob

Gg

Gunner

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

11/07/2004 4:12 AM

On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 22:25:43 -0400, Ned Simmons <[email protected]>
wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>says...
>>
>> "Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > "TeamCasa" <[email protected]> writes:
>> > >EMT should not come in contact with a floor as it will rust. If you can
>> keep
>> > >it above the floor/away from moisture it should be fine.
>> >
>> > EMT is galvanized.
>> >
>> Aluminized, actually.
>>
>
>There may be aluminized the EMT, but I've never seen it.
>It's pretty obvious EMT is galvanized when you weld it.
>
>Ned Simmons

Yup..you get that nasty yellow mang that grows on it...

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

wn

"william_b_noble"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

08/07/2004 5:46 AM

you may wish to consider using rigid conduit rather than EMT - it costs a
little more (not much) and is a lot more resistant to damage.
"AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:l04Hc.41211$MB3.12550@attbi_s04...
> I want to run EMT conduit along my concrete floor to power my lathe. The
> arrangement is such that I'm not worried about someone tripping over it.
> But it is possible that water could leak because of a broken pipe, hole in
> the roof, etc. and come into contact with the wiring. I plan on using
> compression fittings and making the conduit as water tight as I can.
>
> Does anyone know if the national electrical code permits installing
conduit
> on the floor? I borrowed the 2002 NEC Handbook from the local library,
but
> I can't find any mention of where conduit should be installed. The book
is
> 1200 pages and the index didn't help. Which chapter should I look in?
>
>

Ww

"William"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

13/07/2004 6:43 AM


"Lewis Hartswick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] wrote:
> >
> > There are several types of metal conduit - the most common being EMT
> > (zinc electoplated steel in most cases, cold galvanized in others) ,
> > Rigid conduit (heavy walled steel conduit) and aluminum
> > conduit(similar to rigid but "soft" aluminum)
> > EMT, or Electro Metalic Tubing is connected with clamps and sleaves -
> > it is too thin to thread.
> > Rigid and aluminum comduits are generally threaded.
> >
>
> Back when I was doing wiring there was a new product just comming out
> called IMT ( I think ) Intermediat Metalic Tubing. Is it still around?
> ...lew...

Yes it is it takes the same threaded connectors as rigid even though it's
slightly smaller in diameter.

Ww

"William"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

08/07/2004 4:47 PM


"william_b_noble" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> you may wish to consider using rigid conduit rather than EMT - it costs a
> little more (not much) and is a lot more resistant to damage.


I agree that he should use it BUT it's a BUNCH more $$ now, the conduit
prices have gone OUT OF SIGHT!!
A 10' of 1.5" ridgid is over $50 at the wholesale supply here in Iowa
OUTCH!!!

William.....


> "AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:l04Hc.41211$MB3.12550@attbi_s04...
> > I want to run EMT conduit along my concrete floor to power my lathe.
The
> > arrangement is such that I'm not worried about someone tripping over it.
> > But it is possible that water could leak because of a broken pipe, hole
in
> > the roof, etc. and come into contact with the wiring. I plan on using
> > compression fittings and making the conduit as water tight as I can.
> >
> > Does anyone know if the national electrical code permits installing
> conduit
> > on the floor? I borrowed the 2002 NEC Handbook from the local library,
> but
> > I can't find any mention of where conduit should be installed. The book
> is
> > 1200 pages and the index didn't help. Which chapter should I look in?
> >
> >
>
>

lL

[email protected] (Lawrence Wasserman)

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

08/07/2004 1:06 PM

In article <l04Hc.41211$MB3.12550@attbi_s04>, AL <[email protected]> wrote:
>I want to run EMT conduit along my concrete floor to power my lathe. The
>arrangement is such that I'm not worried about someone tripping over it.
>But it is possible that water could leak because of a broken pipe, hole in
>the roof, etc. and come into contact with the wiring. I plan on using
>compression fittings and making the conduit as water tight as I can.
>
>Does anyone know if the national electrical code permits installing conduit
>on the floor? I borrowed the 2002 NEC Handbook from the local library, but
>I can't find any mention of where conduit should be installed. The book is
>1200 pages and the index didn't help. Which chapter should I look in?
>
>

I don't know what the code says, but have you considered using rigid
conduit instead of EMT? It is more like iron pipe than tubing and uses
pipe threads to make connections.


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]

sS

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal)

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

08/07/2004 11:53 PM

"TeamCasa" <[email protected]> writes:
>EMT should not come in contact with a floor as it will rust. If you can keep
>it above the floor/away from moisture it should be fine.

EMT is galvanized.

scott

NS

Ned Simmons

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

10/07/2004 10:18 PM

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> "Randy H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:QH5Hc.56925$Yu.11128@fed1read04...
> > . >I'd suggest
> > > checking with your local inspection department.
> >
> > I second that.
> >
> > I'm having problems with the fire dept. over code. The bottom line is what
> > ever the inspector will except. The code is often left up to the
> inspectors
> > "interpretation" of said code. It's his way or the high way.
>
> If you have one of those hard-nosed inspectors that likes to jerk you
> around, tell him to put it in writing and sign and date it. That can get
> them to back off if they aren't enforcing code, but their own desires.
> You'd be surprised how often they have no authority to make you do things
> the way they want. It's an old ploy those that have an attitude use to run
> you in circles. Once they sign it and it's not necessary for code
> compliance, you have them in your palms, assuming the local government isn't
> totally corrupt. That's something I learned from an old acquaintance that
> worked as a wireman for the majority of his life.
>

Sounds like a good way to make an enemy you don't need on
the off chance you might be able to get his ruling changed.

Here's what the NEC has to say,

"The authority having jurisdiction for enforcement of the
Code will have the responsibility for making
interpretations of the rules, for deciding on the approval
of equipment and materials, and for granting the special
permission contemplated in a number of the rules."

Ned Simmons

NS

Ned Simmons

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

10/07/2004 10:25 PM

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> "Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "TeamCasa" <[email protected]> writes:
> > >EMT should not come in contact with a floor as it will rust. If you can
> keep
> > >it above the floor/away from moisture it should be fine.
> >
> > EMT is galvanized.
> >
> Aluminized, actually.
>

There may be aluminized the EMT, but I've never seen it.
It's pretty obvious EMT is galvanized when you weld it.

Ned Simmons

NS

Ned Simmons

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

13/07/2004 1:42 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 21:07:19 -0400, "Shawn" <shawn_75ATcomcastDOTnet> wrote:
> >"frank" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> There has been aluminum EMT.
> >>
> >> It is rather famous for destruction of concrete buildings where it has been
> >> embedded in concrete.
> >>
> >> I cannot recall if the best book on the subject is "Design and Construction
> >> Failure" or "Construction Failure" or "Why Buildings Fall Down", or one of
> >>the similar books. But one of them has a good piece on it.
> >>
> >
> >How does aluminum damage concrete?
>
> It sets up a galvanic couple with iron rebar, with the result that the
> rebar is rapidly corroded away, weakening the concrete structure.
> Concrete is alkaline, and it never really completely dries, so it acts
> as the electrolyte of the corrosion cell.
>

Aluminum is lower in the galvanic series, so it's more
likely the aluminum expands as it corrodes, stressing the
concrete.

Ned Simmons

Vv

"Vaughn"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

08/07/2004 10:23 AM


"AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:l04Hc.41211$MB3.12550@attbi_s04...
> I want to run EMT conduit along my concrete floor to power my lathe. The
> arrangement is such that I'm not worried about someone tripping over it.
> But it is possible that water could leak because of a broken pipe, hole in
> the roof, etc. and come into contact with the wiring. I plan on using
> compression fittings and making the conduit as water tight as I can.

I usually assume that below grade conduit is full of water and am often
right. It seldom causes a problem. Use a type of wire with "W" in the
designation, avoid splices, and all will be fine.

Vaughn

BB

"Bulletsnbrains"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

10/07/2004 10:31 PM

At my factory job, there are machines, lifts etc. with EMT conduit running
on the floor. Best I can get from the codes are that the conduit must be
supported(anchored) less than or equal to every 10 feet and 3 feet from
terminations. I don't have specs to floor areas w/traffic. Check out Chapter
358.xx (2002) Another poster suggested THWN wire, and I strongly agree. The
"W" is for wet.

Luck,
Brian

"AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:l04Hc.41211$MB3.12550@attbi_s04...
> I want to run EMT conduit along my concrete floor to power my lathe. The
> arrangement is such that I'm not worried about someone tripping over it.
> But it is possible that water could leak because of a broken pipe, hole in
> the roof, etc. and come into contact with the wiring. I plan on using
> compression fittings and making the conduit as water tight as I can.
>
> Does anyone know if the national electrical code permits installing
conduit
> on the floor? I borrowed the 2002 NEC Handbook from the local library,
but
> I can't find any mention of where conduit should be installed. The book
is
> 1200 pages and the index didn't help. Which chapter should I look in?
>
>

RH

"Randy H."

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

07/07/2004 11:19 PM

. >I'd suggest
> checking with your local inspection department.

I second that.

I'm having problems with the fire dept. over code. The bottom line is what
ever the inspector will except. The code is often left up to the inspectors
"interpretation" of said code. It's his way or the high way.

Randy Hansen




"Jim Levie" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 04:24:49 +0000, AL wrote:
>
> > I want to run EMT conduit along my concrete floor to power my lathe.
> > The arrangement is such that I'm not worried about someone tripping over
> > it. But it is possible that water could leak because of a broken pipe,
> > hole in the roof, etc. and come into contact with the wiring. I plan on
> > using compression fittings and making the conduit as water tight as I
> > can.
> >
> > Does anyone know if the national electrical code permits installing
> > conduit on the floor? I borrowed the 2002 NEC Handbook from the local
> > library, but I can't find any mention of where conduit should be
> > installed. The book is 1200 pages and the index didn't help. Which
> > chapter should I look in?
>
> Conduit can be and frequently is placed below ground level (mostly plastic
> these days), so I can't see a problem with what you propose. There might
> be a local requirement for direct burial rated wire, and you certainly
> wouldn't want junctions that weren't water proof on the floor if there was
> a potential for flooding.
>
> I've had THC in cemented plastic conduit for an underground
> conduit approved, but local regulations can be different. I'd suggest
> checking with your local inspection department.
>
> --
> The instructions said to use Windows 98 or better, so I installed RedHat.
>

aA

[email protected] (Al Dykes)

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

08/07/2004 11:27 AM

In article <[email protected]>,
Lawrence Wasserman <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <l04Hc.41211$MB3.12550@attbi_s04>, AL <[email protected]> wrote:
>>I want to run EMT conduit along my concrete floor to power my lathe. The
>>arrangement is such that I'm not worried about someone tripping over it.
>>But it is possible that water could leak because of a broken pipe, hole in
>>the roof, etc. and come into contact with the wiring. I plan on using
>>compression fittings and making the conduit as water tight as I can.
>>
>>Does anyone know if the national electrical code permits installing conduit
>>on the floor? I borrowed the 2002 NEC Handbook from the local library, but
>>I can't find any mention of where conduit should be installed. The book is
>>1200 pages and the index didn't help. Which chapter should I look in?
>>
>>
>
>I don't know what the code says, but have you considered using rigid
>conduit instead of EMT? It is more like iron pipe than tubing and uses
>pipe threads to make connections.

ISTM that if you bend an unspliced length of EMT as an extended "U"
such that the ends of the U were higher than how-deep-does-it-ever-get
would work unless the machine is is too far from the wall.




--
Al Dykes
-----------
adykes at p a n i x . c o m

JM

"John Manders"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

09/07/2004 1:41 PM

Can't you run the cable across the ceiling and then drop down to your lathe?

John

"AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:l04Hc.41211$MB3.12550@attbi_s04...
> I want to run EMT conduit along my concrete floor to power my lathe. The
> arrangement is such that I'm not worried about someone tripping over it.
> But it is possible that water could leak because of a broken pipe, hole in
> the roof, etc. and come into contact with the wiring. I plan on using
> compression fittings and making the conduit as water tight as I can.
>
> Does anyone know if the national electrical code permits installing
conduit
> on the floor? I borrowed the 2002 NEC Handbook from the local library,
but
> I can't find any mention of where conduit should be installed. The book
is
> 1200 pages and the index didn't help. Which chapter should I look in?
>
>

ff

"frank"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

12/07/2004 4:01 PM

There has been aluminum EMT.

It is rather famous for destruction of concrete buildings where it has been
embedded in
concrete.

I cannot recall if the best book on the subject is "Design and Construction
Failure" or
"Construction Failure" or "Why Buildings Fall Down", or one of the similar
books. But
one of them has a good piece on it.

"Harold & Susan Vordos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Somebody wrote:
> >
> > >EMT is galvanized.
> >
> > Sorry Charlie, but only the best get to be Star Kissed.
> >
> > EMT is definitely NOT galvanized.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lew
> >
> > S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the
> Southland)
> > Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures
> >
> >
> Could be you and I have egg on our faces. I am almost certain I have seen
> stickers on some EMT that says it is aluminized, but I'll be damned if I
can
> find anything that indicates I'm right when I do a search on the web.
> Maybe my next trip to an electrical supply warehouse will bear fruit.
>
> Harold
>
> Harold
>
>

JC

"J. Clarke"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

14/07/2004 8:57 AM

Ned Simmons wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> says...
>>
>> "Randy H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:QH5Hc.56925$Yu.11128@fed1read04...
>> > . >I'd suggest
>> > > checking with your local inspection department.
>> >
>> > I second that.
>> >
>> > I'm having problems with the fire dept. over code. The bottom line is
>> > what
>> > ever the inspector will except. The code is often left up to the
>> inspectors
>> > "interpretation" of said code. It's his way or the high way.
>>
>> If you have one of those hard-nosed inspectors that likes to jerk you
>> around, tell him to put it in writing and sign and date it. That can
>> get them to back off if they aren't enforcing code, but their own
>> desires. You'd be surprised how often they have no authority to make you
>> do things
>> the way they want. It's an old ploy those that have an attitude use to
>> run
>> you in circles. Once they sign it and it's not necessary for code
>> compliance, you have them in your palms, assuming the local government
>> isn't
>> totally corrupt. That's something I learned from an old acquaintance
>> that worked as a wireman for the majority of his life.
>>
>
> Sounds like a good way to make an enemy you don't need on
> the off chance you might be able to get his ruling changed.
>
> Here's what the NEC has to say,
>
> "The authority having jurisdiction for enforcement of the
> Code will have the responsibility for making
> interpretations of the rules, for deciding on the approval
> of equipment and materials, and for granting the special
> permission contemplated in a number of the rules."

It is _always_ appropriate to ask for a statement in writing--it eliminates
potential for future misunderstandings. Any inspector who has a problem
with writing down his interpretation is already your enemy. Just ask him
politely and make it clear that you want to have it down so that you don't
forget something important later.

> Ned Simmons

--
--John
Reply to jclarke at ae tee tee global dot net
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Ss

"Shawn"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

09/07/2004 3:31 AM


"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Somebody wrote:
>
> >EMT is galvanized.
>
> Sorry Charlie, but only the best get to be Star Kissed.
>
> EMT is definitely NOT galvanized.
>
>
> --
> Lew
>
I must agree that it IS galvanized. Try welding to it and you will find
out.

Rs

RoyJ

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

11/07/2004 4:01 PM

It's galvanized, just with a thin coating. Usually electroplatd on
rather than hot dipped.

Somewhere I have seen a chart that graphs the coating thickness in mils
versus the life expectancy in years for normal and salt air exposure.

Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

> "Scott Lurndal" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>"TeamCasa" <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>>EMT should not come in contact with a floor as it will rust. If you can
>
> keep
>
>>>it above the floor/away from moisture it should be fine.
>>
>>EMT is galvanized.
>>
>
> Aluminized, actually.
>
> Harold
>
>

JI

John Ings

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

08/07/2004 9:56 AM

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 04:24:49 GMT, "AL" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I want to run EMT conduit along my concrete floor to power my lathe. The
>arrangement is such that I'm not worried about someone tripping over it.
>But it is possible that water could leak because of a broken pipe, hole in
>the roof, etc. and come into contact with the wiring. I plan on using
>compression fittings and making the conduit as water tight as I can.
>
>Does anyone know if the national electrical code permits installing conduit
>on the floor? I borrowed the 2002 NEC Handbook from the local library, but
>I can't find any mention of where conduit should be installed. The book is
>1200 pages and the index didn't help. Which chapter should I look in?
>

A possibility you might look into to get you around elctrical codes is
a more elaborate form of extension cord. In other words a good robust
length of cab-tyre covered where it crosses the floor with some of
that heavy duty poly cable protector used in computer rooms. The size
you would need is about an inch and a half high and four inches wide,
formed like a very shallow inverted U. You glue it to the floor with
silicone and it will protect the cable, minimize the probability of
your tripping over it and allow equipment like welding carts to be
wheeled over it without trouble.



LH

"Lew Hodgett"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

09/07/2004 5:10 AM

Somebody wrote:

>EMT is galvanized.

Sorry Charlie, but only the best get to be Star Kissed.

EMT is definitely NOT galvanized.


--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures

gG

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 09/07/2004 5:10 AM

09/07/2004 5:34 AM

>EMT is definitely NOT galvanized.

Where do you get EMT that isn't?

jJ

[email protected] (Jeffrey Thunder)

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 09/07/2004 5:10 AM

09/07/2004 6:48 PM

In article <[email protected]>,
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> writes:
>
> "Greg" writes:
>
>> Where do you get EMT that isn't?

[isn't galvanized (to insert context)]

>
> Anyplace that sells EMT.
>
> It has a quasi rust proofing process applied, but it is a long way from hot
> dipped galvanize.

I only checked one manufacturer (I found a listing of
65 of them on some website), but Allied
clearly states that their product is galvanized.

http://www.atcelectrical.com/conduit/ATC_prod.php?P=EMT

Ah, the marvels of the web and search engines ...

--
Jeff Thunder
Dept. of Mathematical Sciences
Northern Illinois Univ.
jthunder at math dot niu dot edu

LH

"Lew Hodgett"

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 09/07/2004 5:10 AM

09/07/2004 3:46 PM


"Greg" writes:

> Where do you get EMT that isn't?

Anyplace that sells EMT.

It has a quasi rust proofing process applied, but it is a long way from hot
dipped galvanize.

HTH

Lew

gG

in reply to "Lew Hodgett" on 09/07/2004 3:46 PM

09/07/2004 4:32 PM

>It has a quasi rust proofing process applied, but it is a long way from hot
>dipped galvanize.
>

I guess you didn't read the links to the manufacturer sites upthread a few
notes.
The NEC standard does not require EMT to be protected at all but I have never
seen any that wasn't. Back in the 20s it was painted but anything since WWII is
galvanized, either electroplated or hot dipped.
When I was a state electrical inspector I saw stuff in government buildings
that went back that far.

GC

Gary Coffman

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

09/07/2004 4:09 AM

On Fri, 09 Jul 2004 05:10:43 GMT, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Somebody wrote:
>
>>EMT is galvanized.
>
>Sorry Charlie, but only the best get to be Star Kissed.
>
>EMT is definitely NOT galvanized.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=EMT+galvanized&btnG=Google+Search

Gary

Ts

"Tm"

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

08/07/2004 9:11 PM


"AL" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:l04Hc.41211$MB3.12550@attbi_s04...
> I want to run EMT conduit along my concrete floor to power my lathe. The
> arrangement is such that I'm not worried about someone tripping over it.
> But it is possible that water could leak because of a broken pipe, hole in
> the roof, etc. and come into contact with the wiring. I plan on using
> compression fittings and making the conduit as water tight as I can.
>
> Does anyone know if the national electrical code permits installing
conduit
> on the floor? I borrowed the 2002 NEC Handbook from the local library,
but
> I can't find any mention of where conduit should be installed. The book
is
> 1200 pages and the index didn't help. Which chapter should I look in?
>
>

I have seen it mounted on the floor and supported with Kindorf channel. It
holds the conduit about 1 1/2 inches above the floor. It was to local code.

JL

Jim Levie

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

08/07/2004 12:09 AM

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 04:24:49 +0000, AL wrote:

> I want to run EMT conduit along my concrete floor to power my lathe.
> The arrangement is such that I'm not worried about someone tripping over
> it. But it is possible that water could leak because of a broken pipe,
> hole in the roof, etc. and come into contact with the wiring. I plan on
> using compression fittings and making the conduit as water tight as I
> can.
>
> Does anyone know if the national electrical code permits installing
> conduit on the floor? I borrowed the 2002 NEC Handbook from the local
> library, but I can't find any mention of where conduit should be
> installed. The book is 1200 pages and the index didn't help. Which
> chapter should I look in?

Conduit can be and frequently is placed below ground level (mostly plastic
these days), so I can't see a problem with what you propose. There might
be a local requirement for direct burial rated wire, and you certainly
wouldn't want junctions that weren't water proof on the floor if there was
a potential for flooding.

I've had THC in cemented plastic conduit for an underground
conduit approved, but local regulations can be different. I'd suggest
checking with your local inspection department.

--
The instructions said to use Windows 98 or better, so I installed RedHat.

RT

Ron Thompson

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

08/07/2004 2:29 PM

>I want to run EMT conduit along my concrete floor to power my lathe. The
>arrangement is such that I'm not worried about someone tripping over it.
>But it is possible that water could leak because of a broken pipe, hole in
>the roof, etc. and come into contact with the wiring. I plan on using
>compression fittings and making the conduit as water tight as I can.
>
>Does anyone know if the national electrical code permits installing conduit
>on the floor? I borrowed the 2002 NEC Handbook from the local library, but
>I can't find any mention of where conduit should be installed. The book is
>1200 pages and the index didn't help. Which chapter should I look in?
>
Have you considered flexible liquid tight conduit?


Ron Thompson
On the Beautiful Florida Space Coast, right beside the Kennedy Space Center, USA

http://www.plansandprojects.com

The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is
to fill the world with fools.
--Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

n

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

13/07/2004 1:04 AM

On Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:01:57 -0700, "frank" <[email protected]> wrote:

>There has been aluminum EMT.
>
>It is rather famous for destruction of concrete buildings where it has been
>embedded in
>concrete.
>
>I cannot recall if the best book on the subject is "Design and Construction
>Failure" or
>"Construction Failure" or "Why Buildings Fall Down", or one of the similar
>books. But
>one of them has a good piece on it.
>
>"Harold & Susan Vordos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Somebody wrote:
>> >
>> > >EMT is galvanized.
>> >
>> > Sorry Charlie, but only the best get to be Star Kissed.
>> >
>> > EMT is definitely NOT galvanized.
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Lew

There are several types of metal conduit - the most common being EMT
(zinc electoplated steel in most cases, cold galvanized in others) ,
Rigid conduit (heavy walled steel conduit) and aluminum
conduit(similar to rigid but "soft" aluminum)
EMT, or Electro Metalic Tubing is connected with clamps and sleaves -
it is too thin to thread.
Rigid and aluminum comduits are generally threaded.
>> > S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the
>> Southland)
>> > Visit: <http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett> for Pictures
>> >
>> >
>> Could be you and I have egg on our faces. I am almost certain I have seen
>> stickers on some EMT that says it is aluminized, but I'll be damned if I
>can
>> find anything that indicates I'm right when I do a search on the web.
>> Maybe my next trip to an electrical supply warehouse will bear fruit.
>>
>> Harold
>>
>> Harold
>>
>>
>

RW

R. Wink

in reply to "AL" on 08/07/2004 4:24 AM

08/07/2004 2:00 PM

I worked with a company a few years ago that allowed you to do most anything (when you ran wire) as lone as the first device,
terminal or connection was 18" above the floor line. Seems they had floods from time to time and if the first opening or
connection was above the water level, you could treat it as you would any other wire run.
R, Wink

On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 04:24:49 GMT, "AL" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I want to run EMT conduit along my concrete floor to power my lathe. The
>arrangement is such that I'm not worried about someone tripping over it.
>But it is possible that water could leak because of a broken pipe, hole in
>the roof, etc. and come into contact with the wiring. I plan on using
>compression fittings and making the conduit as water tight as I can.
>
>Does anyone know if the national electrical code permits installing conduit
>on the floor? I borrowed the 2002 NEC Handbook from the local library, but
>I can't find any mention of where conduit should be installed. The book is
>1200 pages and the index didn't help. Which chapter should I look in?
>


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