Selling A House With A Shop - Leave It For Showing Or Empty It?

On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 10:20:31 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> My neighbor is selling his house. He has a wood shop in his basement, maybe
> 15 x 25. Table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, a couple of workbenches, etc.
> The shop is at ground level, with a door to the back yard. Some pretty nice
> stuff has come out that shop.
>
> The rest of the basement is unfinished, basically one large room with the
> furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage shelves. Oh yeah,
> there's a shower stall bathroom in the corner. The basement can be accessed
> by stairs from the kitchen or through the shop. They are 2 separate spaces.
> It's sloped lot, allowing for a walk-out basement in the rear for the shop.
>
> His realtor has told him that he should empty the shop before showing the
> house, so he has moved all of his equipment and material to storage until
> his new house is ready.
>
> What are your thoughts? Would you have left the shop as staging or emptied
> the room like the realtor suggested? I know we are biased, so maybe we aren't
> the right people to ask. ;-) If staging bedrooms and kitchens is all the
> rage these days, why not stage a shop?

So, at the suggestion of his realtor, my neighbor emptied his woodworking
shop. He left a large rolling toolbox, a wet-dry vac, some boxes and paint
cans and other assorted odds and ends.

The only pictures of the basement are of the room that used to be his shop.
The main basement, with the washer, dryer, furnace, water heater, etc. is
not included in the listing pictures.

https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/ISyjhe5auhptam1000000000.jpg
https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/ISmmvt0egzy6rl1000000000.jpg

The listing includes the words:

WALKOUT BSMNT FEATURES GLASS BLK WNDWS, FBA, & LARGE SHOP W/LOTS OF ELECT!

So much for letting potential buyers use their imagination as to what the
room could be used for. ;-)

On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 19:33:51 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 4/1/2017 12:50 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 09:28:14 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/1/2017 9:20 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>> My neighbor is selling his house. He has a wood shop in his basement, maybe
>>>> 15 x 25. Table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, a couple of workbenches, etc.
>>>> The shop is at ground level, with a door to the back yard. Some pretty nice
>>>> stuff has come out that shop.
>>>>
>>>> The rest of the basement is unfinished, basically one large room with the
>>>> furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage shelves. Oh yeah,
>>>> there's a shower stall bathroom in the corner. The basement can be accessed
>>>> by stairs from the kitchen or through the shop. They are 2 separate spaces.
>>>> It's sloped lot, allowing for a walk-out basement in the rear for the shop.
>>>>
>>>> His realtor has told him that he should empty the shop before showing the
>>>> house, so he has moved all of his equipment and material to storage until
>>>> his new house is ready.
>>>>
>>>> What are your thoughts? Would you have left the shop as staging or emptied
>>>> the room like the realtor suggested? I know we are biased, so maybe we aren't
>>>> the right people to ask. ;-) If staging bedrooms and kitchens is all the
>>>> rage these days, why not stage a shop?
>>>>
>>>
>>> If you have a place to move the equipment to, move it out. As hard as
>>> this is to believe, not every man is a "He-man" and he may not, if he
>>> even has any say in the matter, care to see wood working equipment. ;~)
>>
>> Even though some may not be "He-men" (do you know any?-), most see
>> themselves that way. Even though they may not be avid woodworkers
>> most would like some sort of place to get away. Home maintenance does
>> take some space, too.
>
>Did you not see my tongue in my cheek? ;!)

Tough to tell what's serious and what's not, today. ;-)
>
>
>>
>>> An empty room just looks bigger and uncluttered, that is what the
>>> realtor and perspective buyers want to see for a storage area.
>>> Basically the area is not only intended to be a shop and a perspective
>>> buyer may see it as only a room intended to be a shop if it is filled
>>> with equipment. If the room is empty the buyer can see it as any thing
>>> he or she wants it to be.
>>
>> Filled, no. Used, yes. People really do want to see "lived-in"
>> spaces. There is a whole home "staging" industry for a reason.
>>
>
>Understood and why I specifically mentioned "storage area" and not a
>specific room in the house, like a bedroom, living room, dining room,
>etc. An unmodified basement it typically storage.

"Unmodified"? You mean "unfinished"? It's all about proportion. If
the space is cramped, it'll look small, no matter what its true size.
If it's bright and open, it won't. Like I said before my ~2500 ft^2
of unfinished basement isn't going to be anyone's "storage space". No
one has that much crap. Well, no one is going to _move_ that much
crap. After 20 years... ;-)

On Sun, 2 Apr 2017 20:56:23 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 4/2/17 7:43 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 2 Apr 2017 19:24:47 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/2/2017 7:08 PM, Markem wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Go check out realty ads, craigslist or Realtor.com, zillow.
>>>>
>>>> The pictures that kill me are when the house is stuffed to the
>>>> gills, but the pics are that nice soft focus (blurry). You can
>>>> tell the staged ones. My preference when looking at houses, empty
>>>> my imagination can fill it.
>>>>
>>>> I doubt anyone has kept statistics that are valid as to which
>>>> sell best though, the messy one though are probably last.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Most people depends on the money from the sale of their house to
>>> use as downpayment on the new one so they want to sell before
>>> moving. If the house is empty, why? Overpriced? Problem with
>>> structure?
>> +1 -,or more
>>
>
>Unfortunately, that shows a blatant disregard for recent home values and
>trends in the market.
>Our last house wasn't anything close to what you'd consider luxury or
>high value, but we sold in 3 days and that was only because it took that
>long for the bidding war to calm down. The home we bought was on the
>market for several hours when we made our offer which was accepted
>within a couple days only because it took that long for inspection. The
>way the recent housing market is, homes are selling for tens of
>thousands more than they were worth only a year ago and they are
>selling, not in months, weeks, or day, but hours-- many much higher than
>listing.
>
>People in many housing markets can well afford to empty and stage their
>homes, move into a hotel for a week, store their belongings in PODS, and
>make a profit that will make these expenses seems like peanuts.
Not making any sense, when in this hot market people are getting
offers 20 and 30K over asking - SIGHT UNSEEN.the first day the
property is listed. Why pay motel room and storage when it isn't going
to make ANY difference in the selling price or how long it takes to
sell??? I talked to a neighbor at the open house down the street today
- his neighbour listed his house, and had THREE offers before anyone
was in to see the house - all of them from out-of-town - (toronto) -
All of them well over listing price, and no conditions on the offer..
Even a quart of paint would have been wasted money.

On Sun, 02 Apr 2017 21:54:28 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Apr 2017 20:11:54 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 2 Apr 2017 19:24:47 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On 4/2/2017 7:08 PM, Markem wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Go check out realty ads, craigslist or Realtor.com, zillow.
>>>>
>>>> The pictures that kill me are when the house is stuffed to the gills,
>>>> but the pics are that nice soft focus (blurry). You can tell the
>>>> staged ones. My preference when looking at houses, empty my
>>>> imagination can fill it.
>>>>
>>>> I doubt anyone has kept statistics that are valid as to which sell
>>>> best though, the messy one though are probably last.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Most people depends on the money from the sale of their house to use as
>>>downpayment on the new one so they want to sell before moving. If the
>>>house is empty, why? Overpriced? Problem with structure?
>>
>>The people already moved? I'd expect that a lot of people who move,
>>are moving out of the area. There is usually a time line for such
>>life changes. In two of our three moves, the house was empty. The
>>third was a move into an apartment for a while (I was working a
>>short-term contract at the time) so left everything in the house
>>(including SWMBO) until it sold. The first was a "corporate move", so
>>there wasn't a worry about selling and the last was a more "normal'
>>move, though we owned both homes for some time (with a year leasing it
>>"after" the sale).
> That may happen in some markets - but right now, around here, if a
>house doesn't sell in a week it is either in bad - and I mean REAL bad
>shape, or VERY over-priced - or both.

If it's really that hot, housing is very under priced. Ninety days is
considered "normal". This isn't even the normal peak buying time.

BTW, if I move again, I certainly wouldn't even try to buy a house
after selling. Way too stressful.

On Sun, 02 Apr 2017 22:20:35 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Apr 2017 21:54:28 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 02 Apr 2017 20:11:54 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 2 Apr 2017 19:24:47 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 4/2/2017 7:08 PM, Markem wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Go check out realty ads, craigslist or Realtor.com, zillow.
>>>>>
>>>>> The pictures that kill me are when the house is stuffed to the gills,
>>>>> but the pics are that nice soft focus (blurry). You can tell the
>>>>> staged ones. My preference when looking at houses, empty my
>>>>> imagination can fill it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I doubt anyone has kept statistics that are valid as to which sell
>>>>> best though, the messy one though are probably last.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Most people depends on the money from the sale of their house to use as
>>>>downpayment on the new one so they want to sell before moving. If the
>>>>house is empty, why? Overpriced? Problem with structure?
>>>
>>>The people already moved? I'd expect that a lot of people who move,
>>>are moving out of the area. There is usually a time line for such
>>>life changes. In two of our three moves, the house was empty. The
>>>third was a move into an apartment for a while (I was working a
>>>short-term contract at the time) so left everything in the house
>>>(including SWMBO) until it sold. The first was a "corporate move", so
>>>there wasn't a worry about selling and the last was a more "normal'
>>>move, though we owned both homes for some time (with a year leasing it
>>>"after" the sale).
>> That may happen in some markets - but right now, around here, if a
>>house doesn't sell in a week it is either in bad - and I mean REAL bad
>>shape, or VERY over-priced - or both.
>
>If it's really that hot, housing is very under priced. Ninety days is
>considered "normal". This isn't even the normal peak buying time.
>
>BTW, if I move again, I certainly wouldn't even try to buy a house
>after selling. Way too stressful.
When a 3 bedroom 45 year old semi-detatched home with no garage in a
"working class" subdivision sells for over $350,000 I don't think the
house is "under-priced"
With the influx of Toronto buyers I think you could sell a henhouse in
a week for what would have been the high end of the market for a
decent house less than 2 years ago.
It's NUTS.
Going by the house down the street I could likely get $400,000 for my
house if I put it on the market tomorrow - but then whwere would I
live? I'm not ready to move 100 miles west or 350-400 east, or 150
north, to get an affordable place.. There are places 50-60 miles west
that might be reasonable, but not close to any decent centers with
good hospitals and othe facilities - and where I wouldn't have to
drive half an hour to get anywhere.

On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 4:39:56 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 3:08:13 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrot=
e:
> > As others said, empty the shop. From your description it sounds like t=
his house could have a finished basement. Many potential buyers would see =
the basement finished if it was empty for them to imagine. But if filled w=
ith shop equipment, and used for a specific purpose, its harder for them to=
imagine all that gone and the room finished into living space. Unfinished=
basements are also storage space to many people. If empty, its easy to se=
e it as storage space. Also consider that half the people looking at the h=
ouse will be women. Assuming couples buy the house. By showing it as a sh=
op for a man, you are automatically causing half the people looking at the =
house to instantly be deprived of ever using that basement. When selling t=
hings its not good to make half the buyers happy, man shop, and half the bu=
yers filled with rage and hate for the place, women who cannot ever use the=
space.
>=20
> Did you miss the part of the description that stated that the shop was a =
separate space from
> the "main" basement? 2 separate rooms, with the shop being about 1/3 of t=
he overall basement.=20
> No one was being "deprived of ever using that basement."
>=20

This is what you wrote:

"My neighbor is selling his house. He has a wood shop in his basement, mayb=
e=20
15 x 25. The shop is at ground level, with a door to the back yard. Some p=
retty nice stuff has come out that shop.=20

The rest of the basement is unfinished, basically one large room with the=
=20
furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage shelves. The basemen=
t can be accessed by stairs from the kitchen or through the shop. They are =
2 separate spaces. It's sloped lot, allowing for a walk-out basement in th=
e rear for the shop."


The shop is in the basement. And another part of the basement has the furn=
ace, water heater, bathroom, etc. Are there two separate basements? Or is=
the shop in half the basement and the utilities are in the other half? Fr=
om your description it sounds like half the basement is shop and the other =
half is the utility stuff. Sort of similar to my basement. My basement is=
split into two halves. With a drywall wall. Most of the tools are in one=
room and the other is sort of empty. By your logic I have two basements. =
No. I have two rooms that are joined in my basement by a walkway, opening=
. The shop space is for the man. Assuming. So by showing it as a shop, s=
he will never ever be able to use that space. Its not hers.

And with the shop being in the walkout portion of the basement you are sort=
of stating that it cannot be a finished walkout basement. Walkout basemen=
ts that are finished are desirable. But with the shop in the walkout porti=
on, you are implying the new owner cannot have a finished walkout basement.=
Its shop space!


> BTW 2 of the things that came out if that shop was a brand new kitchen fo=
r the wife and a=20
> bedroom set for both of them. She made out just fine.
>=20

So what? Is the seller donating those to the buyer? And writing a clause =
into the contract stating that the shop must be kept to forever honor the m=
aking of those pieces? I can buy Kelly Mehler's woodworking tools. Doesn'=
t mean I can make furniture like him. The kitchen cabinets are of course b=
eing bought with the house. Doubt anyone cares that they were made in the =
basement. They aren't going to pay extra because of that.




> In addition, you are assuming that all couples are made up of a man and a=
> women.


I know gay, trans sexual, homosexual, etc. couples seem to be the norm now =
days. They are everywhere on TV. But all the people I know have husbands =
and wives. Man-woman. Don't think I know anyone who is same sex. I would=
guess 99+% of the people looking at the house will be hetero sexual man-wo=
man couples. Or single people. Man or woman. Not trans, gay, etc. Make =
the house appealing for the 99%.

On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 15:28:33 -0700, Electric Comet
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 3 Apr 2017 03:53:33 -0700 (PDT)
>DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Just because were paying them doesn't make them right 100% of the
>> time.
>
>certainly you mean overpaying them

You mean they're stealing money from you? Are they forcing you to use
their services?

On 4/2/2017 10:57 PM, [email protected] wrote:

>>
>> If it's really that hot, housing is very under priced. Ninety days is
>> considered "normal". This isn't even the normal peak buying time.
>>
>> BTW, if I move again, I certainly wouldn't even try to buy a house
>> after selling. Way too stressful.
> When a 3 bedroom 45 year old semi-detatched home with no garage in a
> "working class" subdivision sells for over $350,000 I don't think the
> house is "under-priced"
> With the influx of Toronto buyers I think you could sell a henhouse in
> a week for what would have been the high end of the market for a
> decent house less than 2 years ago.
> It's NUTS.

How easy is getting a mortgage? I hope it is not heading like our
housing market before the bubble burst. Of course, if you earned $2000
a month and your payment would be $1999 you qualified.

On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 10:28:32 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 4/1/2017 9:20 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > My neighbor is selling his house. He has a wood shop in his basement, m=
aybe
> > 15 x 25. Table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, a couple of workbenches, =
etc.
> > The shop is at ground level, with a door to the back yard. Some pretty =
nice
> > stuff has come out that shop.
> >
> > The rest of the basement is unfinished, basically one large room with t=
he
> > furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage shelves. Oh yeah,
> > there's a shower stall bathroom in the corner. The basement can be acce=
ssed
> > by stairs from the kitchen or through the shop. They are 2 separate spa=
ces.
> > It's sloped lot, allowing for a walk-out basement in the rear for the s=
hop.
> >
> > His realtor has told him that he should empty the shop before showing t=
he
> > house, so he has moved all of his equipment and material to storage unt=
il
> > his new house is ready.
> >
> > What are your thoughts? Would you have left the shop as staging or empt=
ied
> > the room like the realtor suggested? I know we are biased, so maybe we =
aren't
> > the right people to ask. ;-) If staging bedrooms and kitchens is all th=
e
> > rage these days, why not stage a shop?
> >
>=20
> If you have a place to move the equipment to, move it out. As hard as=20
> this is to believe, not every man is a "He-man" and he may not, if he=20
> even has any say in the matter, care to see wood working equipment. ;~)
> An empty room just looks bigger and uncluttered, that is what the=20
> realtor and perspective buyers want to see for a storage area.=20
> Basically the area is not only intended to be a shop and a perspective=20
> buyer may see it as only a room intended to be a shop if it is filled=20
> with equipment. If the room is empty the buyer can see it as any thing=
=20
> he or she wants it to be.

I'm in Real estate. Granted, most of what I do is commercial, but it's the=
same thing at the end of the day. Leon nailed it with this:=20

Basically the area is not only intended to be a shop and a perspective=20
> buyer may see it as only a room intended to be a shop if it is filled=20
> with equipment. If the room is empty the buyer can see it as any thing=
=20
> he or she wants it to be.

Current Owner's shop could be new owner's gym ... or their home office for =
the business they run, or a place for the kids to play out of earshot of mi=
grained parents, or (today) a 'private movie theater' (I still can't believ=
e that trend.) ...a billiards/pool room. In the setting that you describe=
d, it's possible that the shop becomes a recreational place for the new own=
ers to set up their equipment & fun for the new pool they may add to the ba=
ck yard. Add a hot tub, little bar, open up the back with a slider or big=
overhead door, and bang-- you're in their maritime oasis. =20

The best bet is for the people reviewing the home is to see "whatever it is=
they may see" in the home's rooms. Therefore, the best bet for a person se=
lling a home is to let the buyers see "whatever it is they may see." =20

Think about the very first time you saw your shop-- what was it when you s=
aw it? In my case, it was someone's garage. My prior shop before that was =
a workout room. My wife saw my shop as a greenhouse/garden set up area. (=
I claimed it first and she got the front porch, which has better light anyw=
ay!) =20

In terms of staging, generally speaking, a living room is a living room, =
a bedroom really is a bedroom (or small office), and a dining room really i=
s a dining room. These are easy to declutter and stage. Not much staging =
is done in a kitchen-- it usually already has its stuff. "Bonus" spaces, h=
owever, are best left empty or nearly empty. =20

On 4/2/2017 7:08 PM, Markem wrote:

>
> Go check out realty ads, craigslist or Realtor.com, zillow.
>
> The pictures that kill me are when the house is stuffed to the gills,
> but the pics are that nice soft focus (blurry). You can tell the
> staged ones. My preference when looking at houses, empty my
> imagination can fill it.
>
> I doubt anyone has kept statistics that are valid as to which sell
> best though, the messy one though are probably last.
>

Most people depends on the money from the sale of their house to use as
downpayment on the new one so they want to sell before moving. If the
house is empty, why? Overpriced? Problem with structure?

On 4/6/2017 12:40 PM, Steve wrote:
> On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 10:28:32 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 4/1/2017 9:20 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> My neighbor is selling his house. He has a wood shop in his basement, maybe
>>> 15 x 25. Table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, a couple of workbenches, etc.
>>> The shop is at ground level, with a door to the back yard. Some pretty nice
>>> stuff has come out that shop.
>>>
>>> The rest of the basement is unfinished, basically one large room with the
>>> furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage shelves. Oh yeah,
>>> there's a shower stall bathroom in the corner. The basement can be accessed
>>> by stairs from the kitchen or through the shop. They are 2 separate spaces.
>>> It's sloped lot, allowing for a walk-out basement in the rear for the shop.
>>>
>>> His realtor has told him that he should empty the shop before showing the
>>> house, so he has moved all of his equipment and material to storage until
>>> his new house is ready.
>>>
>>> What are your thoughts? Would you have left the shop as staging or emptied
>>> the room like the realtor suggested? I know we are biased, so maybe we aren't
>>> the right people to ask. ;-) If staging bedrooms and kitchens is all the
>>> rage these days, why not stage a shop?
>>>
>>
>> If you have a place to move the equipment to, move it out. As hard as
>> this is to believe, not every man is a "He-man" and he may not, if he
>> even has any say in the matter, care to see wood working equipment. ;~)
>> An empty room just looks bigger and uncluttered, that is what the
>> realtor and perspective buyers want to see for a storage area.
>> Basically the area is not only intended to be a shop and a perspective
>> buyer may see it as only a room intended to be a shop if it is filled
>> with equipment. If the room is empty the buyer can see it as any thing
>> he or she wants it to be.
>
> I'm in Real estate. Granted, most of what I do is commercial, but it's the same thing at the end of the day. Leon nailed it with this:
>
> Basically the area is not only intended to be a shop and a perspective
>> buyer may see it as only a room intended to be a shop if it is filled
>> with equipment. If the room is empty the buyer can see it as any thing
>> he or she wants it to be.
>
> Current Owner's shop could be new owner's gym ... or their home office for the business they run, or a place for the kids to play out of earshot of migrained parents, or (today) a 'private movie theater' (I still can't believe that trend.) ...a billiards/pool room. In the setting that you described, it's possible that the shop becomes a recreational place for the new owners to set up their equipment & fun for the new pool they may add to the back yard. Add a hot tub, little bar, open up the back with a slider or big overhead door, and bang-- you're in their maritime oasis.
>
> The best bet is for the people reviewing the home is to see "whatever it is they may see" in the home's rooms. Therefore, the best bet for a person selling a home is to let the buyers see "whatever it is they may see."
>
> Think about the very first time you saw your shop-- what was it when you saw it? In my case, it was someone's garage. My prior shop before that was a workout room. My wife saw my shop as a greenhouse/garden set up area. (I claimed it first and she got the front porch, which has better light anyway!)
>
> In terms of staging, generally speaking, a living room is a living room, a bedroom really is a bedroom (or small office), and a dining room really is a dining room. These are easy to declutter and stage. Not much staging is done in a kitchen-- it usually already has its stuff. "Bonus" spaces, however, are best left empty or nearly empty.
>
So what you are saying is people have no imagination and can only see it
for what it is.

Years ago, homes were never staged, you went out and saw what people
had. You used your imagination. Figured out what you wanted it to look
like.

--
Jeff

On Wednesday, April 26, 2017 at 11:20:56 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:

>
> The listing includes the words:
>
> WALKOUT BSMNT FEATURES GLASS BLK WNDWS, FBA, & LARGE SHOP W/LOTS OF ELECT!
>
> So much for letting potential buyers use their imagination as to what the
> room could be used for. ;-)

ha!! after all that..

On 03 Apr 2017 21:35:48 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> Or a thousand miles South and get three times the house on 20 times
>> the property and still be within an hour[*] of six woodworking stores.
>> ;-)
>>
>> [*] Well, before a key highway collapsed.
>
>Yeah, but what happens when it rains?
>
>I've been there (Atlanta) when it's rained... Sure doesn't take long for
>someone to slide into someone and clog up all the major expressways out of
>town.

Rush hour(s) is a mess anytime but when it gets wet the drivers really
turn into assholes. Fortunately, I live far enough out (~30mi from
midtown), and on the side where traffic isn't an issue. When I go to
the other side, I make sure it's either the weekend or in the middle
of the day (or the ER a couple of times at 2:00AM :-( ).
>
>Is Toronto better about that?

Snow is no fun, even when they know what to do with it. I'm done with
that stuff!

On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 15:26:45 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 4/1/17 9:34 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 10:26:15 AM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
>>> On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 9:20:31 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>> My neighbor is selling his house. He has a wood shop in his
>>>> basement, maybe 15 x 25. Table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, a
>>>> couple of workbenches, etc. The shop is at ground level, with a
>>>> door to the back yard. Some pretty nice stuff has come out that
>>>> shop.
>>>>
>>>> The rest of the basement is unfinished, basically one large room
>>>> with the furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage
>>>> shelves. Oh yeah, there's a shower stall bathroom in the corner.
>>>> The basement can be accessed by stairs from the kitchen or
>>>> through the shop. They are 2 separate spaces. It's sloped lot,
>>>> allowing for a walk-out basement in the rear for the shop.
>>>>
>>>> His realtor has told him that he should empty the shop before
>>>> showing the house, so he has moved all of his equipment and
>>>> material to storage until his new house is ready.
>>>>
>>>> What are your thoughts? Would you have left the shop as staging
>>>> or emptied the room like the realtor suggested? I know we are
>>>> biased, so maybe we aren't the right people to ask. ;-) If
>>>> staging bedrooms and kitchens is all the rage these days, why not
>>>> stage a shop?
>>>
>>> The rule is empty because it looks bigger and the buyer imagines
>>> all his or her stuff in there.
>>
>> That's not the "rule" we're following as we get my dad's house ready
>> to show.
>>
>> The realtor has a "stager" on staff that went through the house and
>> told us what to leave. Beds, a dresser, a small desk in a room that
>> could be an office, etc. They even have air mattresses, bed frames
>> and other items that they can set up if you can't leave your own
>> stuff.
>>
>> DAGS 'staging a house for showing'
>>
>
>If you will notice when realtors stage a house they use a minimum amount
>of furniture in each room and always the smaller choices of furniture.
>You won't see a California King in a 12x16 bedroom.
In a lot of cases a 12X16 is a BIG bedroom!!

On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 21:04:04 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 15:51:40 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:03:56 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 09:09:02 -0700, Electric Comet
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 20:20:51 -0700 (PDT)
>>>>DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So much for letting potential buyers use their imagination as to what
>>>>> the room could be used for. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>the point of removing furnishings is to make the space look and feel
>>>>bigger
>>>
>>>There is a limit to that. There should be enough in a room to make it
>>>look useful but not enough to make it junky. A lot of people can't
>>>"see" their bed in an empty room. OTOH, if there is a queen bed in
>>>the room, it's a lot easier to imagine your king in the same room.
>>>There is a reason people pay big money to stage homes.
>> Total waste of money in this local market where there are multiple
>>bids on virtually every listing, and they usually sell way over listed
>>price - with no conditions, and often sight unseen. Crazy I know, but
>>that's the market in the Greater Golden Horseshoe.
>
>Probably but it makes the point that you shouldn't totally empty
>rooms. De-junkify, absolutely. Remove everything? Not necessarily.
In a "normal" market you want the house look like it's liveable. A
bit of furniture gives it some "scale". I think an empty house is a
harder sell - in a normal market. If nothing else it detracts from
some of the normal "wear and tear"

On Mon, 3 Apr 2017 03:53:33 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 10:54:47 PM UTC-4, Electric Comet wrote:
>> On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 07:20:27 -0700 (PDT)
>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > maybe we aren't the right people to ask. ;-) If staging bedrooms and
>> > kitchens is all the rage these days, why not stage a shop?
>>
>> because a shop is more personal to a woodworker
>> we are particular about our tools
>>
>> woodworker is a very very small market segment
>>
>> plus what is the commision for a realtor these days
>>
>> maybe make them earn that and take their advice
>
>As if different realtors don't have different opinions.
>
>Just because were paying them doesn't make them right 100% of the time.
Sometimes 50% is optimistic.

On Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 10:54:47 PM UTC-4, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 07:20:27 -0700 (PDT)
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > maybe we aren't the right people to ask. ;-) If staging bedrooms and
> > kitchens is all the rage these days, why not stage a shop?
>
> because a shop is more personal to a woodworker
> we are particular about our tools
>
> woodworker is a very very small market segment
>
> plus what is the commision for a realtor these days
>
> maybe make them earn that and take their advice

As if different realtors don't have different opinions.

Just because were paying them doesn't make them right 100% of the time.

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 13:28:56 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>On Mon, 3 Apr 2017 08:40:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 4/2/2017 10:57 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> If it's really that hot, housing is very under priced. Ninety days is
>>>> considered "normal". This isn't even the normal peak buying time.
>>>>
>>>> BTW, if I move again, I certainly wouldn't even try to buy a house
>>>> after selling. Way too stressful.
>>> When a 3 bedroom 45 year old semi-detatched home with no garage in a
>>> "working class" subdivision sells for over $350,000 I don't think the
>>> house is "under-priced"
>>> With the influx of Toronto buyers I think you could sell a henhouse in
>>> a week for what would have been the high end of the market for a
>>> decent house less than 2 years ago.
>>> It's NUTS.
>>
>>How easy is getting a mortgage? I hope it is not heading like our
>>housing market before the bubble burst. Of course, if you earned $2000
>>a month and your payment would be $1999 you qualified.
>
>It does seem to be going back that way. Not so much qualified income
>and no-docs, perhaps, but the (close to) 100% loans are back.
Not up here. Thank Goodness.
It's bad enough that the "well healed" Torontonians are grabbing up
everything in sight (The vast majority recent immigrants, by the way)
without all the riff-raff joining them. It does make it hard for our
kids to buy houses - they would qualify for what the houses were
selling for 2 years ago - but now they are being totally bid out of
the market - with Semis and townhouses over $300,000, and bidding wars
- and lineps around the block when new condos go up for sale. This
weekend a 40 unit condo sold out in hours - with a waiting list for
the next tower virtually selling it out before it is built.And it's
not a cheap condo tower ----. Being 10 minutes from the 401 it was
sold almost totally to Toronto Commuters.

On Wed, 05 Apr 2017 13:39:32 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>On Tue, 04 Apr 2017 22:09:53 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 4 Apr 2017 15:28:33 -0700, Electric Comet
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 3 Apr 2017 03:53:33 -0700 (PDT)
>>>DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just because were paying them doesn't make them right 100% of the
>>>> time.
>>>
>>>certainly you mean overpaying them
>>
>>You mean they're stealing money from you? Are they forcing you to use
>>their services?
> Pretty close. Not saying they are stealing money, but in many cases
>they are not providing the service you are paying for. Worse yet for
>home inspectors than realtors.

You chose to hire them and agreed to the terms. They don't get paid
if you aren't successful in selling your home. How is that being
"overpaid"?

My selling agents have been worth every dime I paid them. We had a
loser buyer's agent but she didn't get paid a dime either. Her
replacement got paid the buying side of the commission for a few hours
work (she was willing _to_ work).

On Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 12:37:36 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 4:39:56 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 3:08:13 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wr=
ote:
> > > As others said, empty the shop. From your description it sounds like=
this house could have a finished basement. Many potential buyers would se=
e the basement finished if it was empty for them to imagine. But if filled=
with shop equipment, and used for a specific purpose, its harder for them =
to imagine all that gone and the room finished into living space. Unfinish=
ed basements are also storage space to many people. If empty, its easy to =
see it as storage space. Also consider that half the people looking at the=
house will be women. Assuming couples buy the house. By showing it as a =
shop for a man, you are automatically causing half the people looking at th=
e house to instantly be deprived of ever using that basement. When selling=
things its not good to make half the buyers happy, man shop, and half the =
buyers filled with rage and hate for the place, women who cannot ever use t=
he space.
> >=20
> > Did you miss the part of the description that stated that the shop was =
a separate space from
> > the "main" basement? 2 separate rooms, with the shop being about 1/3 of=
the overall basement.=20
> > No one was being "deprived of ever using that basement."
> >=20
>=20
> This is what you wrote:
>=20
> "My neighbor is selling his house. He has a wood shop in his basement, ma=
ybe=20
> 15 x 25. The shop is at ground level, with a door to the back yard. Some=
pretty nice stuff has come out that shop.=20
>=20
> The rest of the basement is unfinished, basically one large room with the=
=20
> furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage shelves. The basem=
ent can be accessed by stairs from the kitchen or through the shop. They ar=
e 2 separate spaces. It's sloped lot, allowing for a walk-out basement in =
the rear for the shop."

I see why you are confused. Allow me to clarify what I meant by "They are=
=20
2 separate spaces":

The basement is split into 2 areas, separated by a block wall. One area -=
=20
the shop - equates to about 1/3 of the basement. The other 2/3 contains the=
=20
furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage shelves.

2 separate rooms.

>=20
>=20
> The shop is in the basement. And another part of the basement has the fu=
rnace, water heater, bathroom, etc. Are there two separate basements? Or =
is the shop in half the basement and the utilities are in the other half? =
From your description it sounds like half the basement is shop and the othe=
r half is the utility stuff. Sort of similar to my basement. My basement =
is split into two halves. With a drywall wall. Most of the tools are in o=
ne room and the other is sort of empty. By your logic I have two basements=
. =20

I have no idea how "my logic" implies 2 basements, but if that's what you=
=20
took from my wording, OK. I hope that I have clarified that issue.

>No. I have two rooms that are joined in my basement by a walkway, opening=
. The shop space is for the man. Assuming. So by showing it as a shop, s=
he will never ever be able to use that space. Its not hers.

Assuming.


>=20
> And with the shop being in the walkout portion of the basement you are so=
rt of stating that it cannot be a finished walkout basement. Walkout basem=
ents that are finished are desirable. But with the shop in the walkout por=
tion, you are implying the new owner cannot have a finished walkout basemen=
t. Its shop space!

How do the current (removable) contents of a room "imply" it's future use?=
=20
(Kitchens and bathroom might be considered exceptions)=20

If I put a desk and bookcase in a 3rd bedroom, are prospective buyers going
to think it's a 2 bedroom house with an office? "Honey, we need a 3rd bedro=
om,
not an office. Let's go."

If the basement room was a laundry room or storage room would you remove th=
e
appliances or shelves so that the prospective buyer can imagine a "finished=
walkout basement"?

Shop, storage, laundry room whatever. By your logic, it doesn't matter what=
=20
the room is used for, if it's not empty the current owner is "implying the=
=20
new owner cannot have a finished walkout basement." That implies that all=
=20
prospective buyers are idiots.

>=20
>=20
> > BTW 2 of the things that came out if that shop was a brand new kitchen =
for the wife and a=20
> > bedroom set for both of them. She made out just fine.
> >=20
>=20
> So what? Is the seller donating those to the buyer? And writing a claus=
e into the contract stating that the shop must be kept to forever honor the=
making of those pieces? I can buy Kelly Mehler's woodworking tools. Does=
n't mean I can make furniture like him. The kitchen cabinets are of course=
being bought with the house. Doubt anyone cares that they were made in th=
e basement. They aren't going to pay extra because of that.

No one said that anything like that. It was merely an aside to point out th=
at
even though, as you implied, the woman of the house was "deprived" of that=
=20
space, she benefited immensely because of what came out of that shop to imp=
rove
the home while she lived there and is now about to sell.=20

They aren't going to pay extra specifically because the cabinets came out
of the basement shop, but they are going to pay extra for the upgraded=20
kitchen. (Let's not get into comps and pay back, etc. I know the neighborho=
od=20
well enough to know that the value of the house has been increased [and tha=
t=20
the increased value will be realized] because of the updated kitchen).

>=20
>=20
> > In addition, you are assuming that all couples are made up of a man and=
a > women.
>=20
>=20
> I know gay, trans sexual, homosexual, etc. couples seem to be the norm no=
w days. They are everywhere on TV. But all the people I know have husband=
s and wives. Man-woman. Don't think I know anyone who is same sex. I wou=
ld guess 99+% of the people looking at the house will be hetero sexual man-=
woman couples. Or single people. Man or woman. Not trans, gay, etc. Mak=
e the house appealing for the 99%.

On Mon, 03 Apr 2017 13:26:57 -0400, [email protected] wrote:

>On Sun, 02 Apr 2017 22:57:20 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 02 Apr 2017 22:20:35 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 02 Apr 2017 21:54:28 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 02 Apr 2017 20:11:54 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 2 Apr 2017 19:24:47 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 4/2/2017 7:08 PM, Markem wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Go check out realty ads, craigslist or Realtor.com, zillow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The pictures that kill me are when the house is stuffed to the gills,
>>>>>>> but the pics are that nice soft focus (blurry). You can tell the
>>>>>>> staged ones. My preference when looking at houses, empty my
>>>>>>> imagination can fill it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I doubt anyone has kept statistics that are valid as to which sell
>>>>>>> best though, the messy one though are probably last.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Most people depends on the money from the sale of their house to use as
>>>>>>downpayment on the new one so they want to sell before moving. If the
>>>>>>house is empty, why? Overpriced? Problem with structure?
>>>>>
>>>>>The people already moved? I'd expect that a lot of people who move,
>>>>>are moving out of the area. There is usually a time line for such
>>>>>life changes. In two of our three moves, the house was empty. The
>>>>>third was a move into an apartment for a while (I was working a
>>>>>short-term contract at the time) so left everything in the house
>>>>>(including SWMBO) until it sold. The first was a "corporate move", so
>>>>>there wasn't a worry about selling and the last was a more "normal'
>>>>>move, though we owned both homes for some time (with a year leasing it
>>>>>"after" the sale).
>>>> That may happen in some markets - but right now, around here, if a
>>>>house doesn't sell in a week it is either in bad - and I mean REAL bad
>>>>shape, or VERY over-priced - or both.
>>>
>>>If it's really that hot, housing is very under priced. Ninety days is
>>>considered "normal". This isn't even the normal peak buying time.
>>>
>>>BTW, if I move again, I certainly wouldn't even try to buy a house
>>>after selling. Way too stressful.
>> When a 3 bedroom 45 year old semi-detatched home with no garage in a
>>"working class" subdivision sells for over $350,000 I don't think the
>>house is "under-priced"
>
>What it is, is irrelevant. How fast it sells for and how many people
>want it (at the price) is. Worth is defined by what people are
>willing to pay. Nothing more. Nothing less.
>
>>With the influx of Toronto buyers I think you could sell a henhouse in
>>a week for what would have been the high end of the market for a
>>decent house less than 2 years ago.
>> It's NUTS.
>> Going by the house down the street I could likely get $400,000 for my
>>house if I put it on the market tomorrow - but then whwere would I
>>live? I'm not ready to move 100 miles west or 350-400 east, or 150
>>north, to get an affordable place.. There are places 50-60 miles west
>>that might be reasonable, but not close to any decent centers with
>>good hospitals and othe facilities - and where I wouldn't have to
>>drive half an hour to get anywhere.
>
>Or a thousand miles South and get three times the house on 20 times
>the property and still be within an hour[*] of six woodworking stores.
>;-)
>
>[*] Well, before a key highway collapsed.
But not half a mile from Lee Valley!!!

[email protected] wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> Or a thousand miles South and get three times the house on 20 times
> the property and still be within an hour[*] of six woodworking stores.
> ;-)
>
> [*] Well, before a key highway collapsed.

Yeah, but what happens when it rains?

I've been there (Atlanta) when it's rained... Sure doesn't take long for
someone to slide into someone and clog up all the major expressways out of
town.

Is Toronto better about that?

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

On 4/1/2017 10:34 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

>> The rule is empty because it looks bigger and the buyer imagines all his or her stuff in there.
>
> That's not the "rule" we're following as we get my dad's house ready to show.
>
> The realtor has a "stager" on staff that went through the house and told
> us what to leave. Beds, a dresser, a small desk in a room that could be an
> office, etc. They even have air mattresses, bed frames and other items that
> they can set up if you can't leave your own stuff.
>
> DAGS 'staging a house for showing'
>

Sure, leave the small desk, but get rid of the 6 extra chairs, floor
lamp, beer cooler, drum set, exercise bike, laundry basket and
overflowing magazine rack.

Small stuff makes the room seem big and the desk is a good idea for the
unimaginative that come through. Staging can make a difference.

On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 07:34:05 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 10:26:15 AM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
>> On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 9:20:31 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> > My neighbor is selling his house. He has a wood shop in his basement, maybe
>> > 15 x 25. Table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, a couple of workbenches, etc.
>> > The shop is at ground level, with a door to the back yard. Some pretty nice
>> > stuff has come out that shop.
>> >
>> > The rest of the basement is unfinished, basically one large room with the
>> > furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage shelves. Oh yeah,
>> > there's a shower stall bathroom in the corner. The basement can be accessed
>> > by stairs from the kitchen or through the shop. They are 2 separate spaces.
>> > It's sloped lot, allowing for a walk-out basement in the rear for the shop.
>> >
>> > His realtor has told him that he should empty the shop before showing the
>> > house, so he has moved all of his equipment and material to storage until
>> > his new house is ready.
>> >
>> > What are your thoughts? Would you have left the shop as staging or emptied
>> > the room like the realtor suggested? I know we are biased, so maybe we aren't
>> > the right people to ask. ;-) If staging bedrooms and kitchens is all the
>> > rage these days, why not stage a shop?
>>
>> The rule is empty because it looks bigger and the buyer imagines all his or her stuff in there.
>
>That's not the "rule" we're following as we get my dad's house ready to show.
>
>The realtor has a "stager" on staff that went through the house and told
>us what to leave. Beds, a dresser, a small desk in a room that could be an
>office, etc. They even have air mattresses, bed frames and other items that
>they can set up if you can't leave your own stuff.
>
>DAGS 'staging a house for showing'

Which raises the question, is a shop different? I'd think that if
it's cramped with power tools, thin them out so it appears there is
room to work. Leave some tools and display them nicely, if possible,
but in all cases, "de-junkify".

On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 09:28:14 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 4/1/2017 9:20 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> My neighbor is selling his house. He has a wood shop in his basement, maybe
>> 15 x 25. Table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, a couple of workbenches, etc.
>> The shop is at ground level, with a door to the back yard. Some pretty nice
>> stuff has come out that shop.
>>
>> The rest of the basement is unfinished, basically one large room with the
>> furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage shelves. Oh yeah,
>> there's a shower stall bathroom in the corner. The basement can be accessed
>> by stairs from the kitchen or through the shop. They are 2 separate spaces.
>> It's sloped lot, allowing for a walk-out basement in the rear for the shop.
>>
>> His realtor has told him that he should empty the shop before showing the
>> house, so he has moved all of his equipment and material to storage until
>> his new house is ready.
>>
>> What are your thoughts? Would you have left the shop as staging or emptied
>> the room like the realtor suggested? I know we are biased, so maybe we aren't
>> the right people to ask. ;-) If staging bedrooms and kitchens is all the
>> rage these days, why not stage a shop?
>>
>
>If you have a place to move the equipment to, move it out. As hard as
>this is to believe, not every man is a "He-man" and he may not, if he
>even has any say in the matter, care to see wood working equipment. ;~)

Even though some may not be "He-men" (do you know any?-), most see
themselves that way. Even though they may not be avid woodworkers
most would like some sort of place to get away. Home maintenance does
take some space, too.

>An empty room just looks bigger and uncluttered, that is what the
>realtor and perspective buyers want to see for a storage area.
>Basically the area is not only intended to be a shop and a perspective
>buyer may see it as only a room intended to be a shop if it is filled
>with equipment. If the room is empty the buyer can see it as any thing
>he or she wants it to be.

Filled, no. Used, yes. People really do want to see "lived-in"
spaces. There is a whole home "staging" industry for a reason.

On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 07:52:00 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 4/26/2017 11:20 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 10:20:31 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> My neighbor is selling his house. He has a wood shop in his basement, maybe
>>> 15 x 25. Table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, a couple of workbenches, etc.
>>> The shop is at ground level, with a door to the back yard. Some pretty nice
>>> stuff has come out that shop.
>>>
>>> The rest of the basement is unfinished, basically one large room with the
>>> furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage shelves. Oh yeah,
>>> there's a shower stall bathroom in the corner. The basement can be accessed
>>> by stairs from the kitchen or through the shop. They are 2 separate spaces.
>>> It's sloped lot, allowing for a walk-out basement in the rear for the shop.
>>>
>>> His realtor has told him that he should empty the shop before showing the
>>> house, so he has moved all of his equipment and material to storage until
>>> his new house is ready.
>>>
>>> What are your thoughts? Would you have left the shop as staging or emptied
>>> the room like the realtor suggested? I know we are biased, so maybe we aren't
>>> the right people to ask. ;-) If staging bedrooms and kitchens is all the
>>> rage these days, why not stage a shop?
>>
>> So, at the suggestion of his realtor, my neighbor emptied his woodworking
>> shop. He left a large rolling toolbox, a wet-dry vac, some boxes and paint
>> cans and other assorted odds and ends.
>>
>> The only pictures of the basement are of the room that used to be his shop.
>> The main basement, with the washer, dryer, furnace, water heater, etc. is
>> not included in the listing pictures.
>>
>> https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/ISyjhe5auhptam1000000000.jpg
>> https://photos.zillowstatic.com/p_f/ISmmvt0egzy6rl1000000000.jpg
>>
>> The listing includes the words:
>>
>> WALKOUT BSMNT FEATURES GLASS BLK WNDWS, FBA, & LARGE SHOP W/LOTS OF ELECT!
>>
>> So much for letting potential buyers use their imagination as to what the
>> room could be used for. ;-)
>>
>
>Nice size for a shop but if they don't show the rest it looks small
>overall. It would be more attractive had he put some rock up on the
>ceiling and would have brightened his shop.

I certainly wouldn't want a drywall basement ceiling. The access to
electrical and plumbing is too valuable. Put in a drop ceiling, if
you must.

On Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 12:44:10 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 5:36:57 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> > In article <7c012f78-f231-4982-a065-d4655ff04f03
> > @googlegroups.com>, [email protected] says...
> > >=20
> > > On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 3:08:13 PM UTC-4, [email protected] =
wrote:
> > > > As others said, empty the shop. From your description it sounds li=
ke this house could have a finished basement. Many potential buyers would =
see the basement finished if it was empty for them to imagine. But if fill=
ed with shop equipment, and used for a specific purpose, its harder for the=
m to imagine all that gone and the room finished into living space. Unfini=
shed basements are also storage space to many people. If empty, its easy t=
o see it as storage space. =20
> > Also consider that half the people looking at the house will be women. =
Assuming couples buy the house. By showing it as a shop for a man, you ar=
e automatically causing half the people looking at the house to instantly b=
e deprived of ever using that basement. When selling things its not good t=
o make half the buyers happy, man shop, and half the buyers filled with rag=
e and hate for the place, women who cannot ever use the space.
> > >=20
> > > Did you miss the part of the description that stated that the shop wa=
s a separate space from
> > > the "main" basement? 2 separate rooms, with the shop being about 1/3 =
of the overall basement.=20
> > > No one was being "deprived of ever using that basement."
> > >=20
> > > BTW 2 of the things that came out if that shop was a brand new kitche=
n for the wife and a=20
> > > bedroom set for both of them. She made out just fine.
> > >=20
> > > In addition, you are assuming that all couples are made up of a man a=
nd a women.
> >=20
> > And that a woman has no use for a shop full of=20
> > tools. Paint it all pink and watch the=20
> > realtor's head explode.
>=20
> I have known one or two or maybe three women in my life. =20

I'd like a little more info related to that statement. Just curious...What=
=20
do you mean by "known"?

How does one go through life "knowing" only "one or two or maybe three=20
women"? Heck, your mom counts as one so you don't have too many left to=20
hit your max of 3.

Do you mean "known" in the biblical sense?

> Have yet to meet any that do woodworking or mechanic work. Or yardwork. =
Or cut firewood. Or dig ditches. =20

Well, if you've only known 3, that's not surprising.

Drive through my neighborhood sometime. Lots of woman joining their husband=
s
or partners (if not single) doing all kinds of yard work, stacking wood,
etc. Heck, 1/3 of my lot is comprised of SWMBO's gardens. She does 90% of t=
he
work related to them. I know enough not to intrude unless invited to help.
(BTW I don't feel deprived of those areas)=20

You know, now that I think about some of your earlier comments, I guess I'm=
=20
going to have to rip out all of her gardens before we sell. I may be implyi=
ng=20
that the next owners can't have a full lawn or a pool or a patio because of=
=20
the current contents of the gardens.


> Not saying there are not any. There are. But very, very, very, very few=
. On TV I have seen women play football. Tackle football. In bikinis! Y=
eah. But I have yet to meet any women who play football. Men, usually you=
ng, will play football with each other. Have not seen any women playing fo=
otball. Except on TV. In bikinis! I'm just guessing the bikinis are impo=
rtant.

On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 16:07:30 -0400, woodchucker <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 4/1/2017 10:20 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> My neighbor is selling his house. He has a wood shop in his basement, maybe
>> 15 x 25. Table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, a couple of workbenches, etc.
>> The shop is at ground level, with a door to the back yard. Some pretty nice
>> stuff has come out that shop.
>>
>> The rest of the basement is unfinished, basically one large room with the
>> furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage shelves. Oh yeah,
>> there's a shower stall bathroom in the corner. The basement can be accessed
>> by stairs from the kitchen or through the shop. They are 2 separate spaces.
>> It's sloped lot, allowing for a walk-out basement in the rear for the shop.
>>
>> His realtor has told him that he should empty the shop before showing the
>> house, so he has moved all of his equipment and material to storage until
>> his new house is ready.
>>
>> What are your thoughts? Would you have left the shop as staging or emptied
>> the room like the realtor suggested? I know we are biased, so maybe we aren't
>> the right people to ask. ;-) If staging bedrooms and kitchens is all the
>> rage these days, why not stage a shop?
>>
>
>I hate these empty your house to show it. The HGTV shows have created
>that mentality. Again where TV winds up becoming reality. I would have
>left it.

Go check out realty ads, craigslist or Realtor.com, zillow.

The pictures that kill me are when the house is stuffed to the gills,
but the pics are that nice soft focus (blurry). You can tell the
staged ones. My preference when looking at houses, empty my
imagination can fill it.

I doubt anyone has kept statistics that are valid as to which sell
best though, the messy one though are probably last.

On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 9:20:31 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> My neighbor is selling his house. He has a wood shop in his basement, maybe
> 15 x 25. Table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, a couple of workbenches, etc.
> The shop is at ground level, with a door to the back yard. Some pretty nice
> stuff has come out that shop.
>
> The rest of the basement is unfinished, basically one large room with the
> furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage shelves. Oh yeah,
> there's a shower stall bathroom in the corner. The basement can be accessed
> by stairs from the kitchen or through the shop. They are 2 separate spaces.
> It's sloped lot, allowing for a walk-out basement in the rear for the shop.
>
> His realtor has told him that he should empty the shop before showing the
> house, so he has moved all of his equipment and material to storage until
> his new house is ready.
>
> What are your thoughts? Would you have left the shop as staging or emptied
> the room like the realtor suggested? I know we are biased, so maybe we aren't
> the right people to ask. ;-) If staging bedrooms and kitchens is all the
> rage these days, why not stage a shop?

The rule is empty because it looks bigger and the buyer imagines all his or her stuff in there.

On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 3:08:13 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> As others said, empty the shop. From your description it sounds like thi=
s house could have a finished basement. Many potential buyers would see th=
e basement finished if it was empty for them to imagine. But if filled wit=
h shop equipment, and used for a specific purpose, its harder for them to i=
magine all that gone and the room finished into living space. Unfinished b=
asements are also storage space to many people. If empty, its easy to see =
it as storage space. Also consider that half the people looking at the hou=
se will be women. Assuming couples buy the house. By showing it as a shop=
for a man, you are automatically causing half the people looking at the ho=
use to instantly be deprived of ever using that basement. When selling thi=
ngs its not good to make half the buyers happy, man shop, and half the buye=
rs filled with rage and hate for the place, women who cannot ever use the s=
pace.

Did you miss the part of the description that stated that the shop was a se=
parate space from
the "main" basement? 2 separate rooms, with the shop being about 1/3 of the=
overall basement.=20
No one was being "deprived of ever using that basement."

BTW 2 of the things that came out if that shop was a brand new kitchen for =
the wife and a=20
bedroom set for both of them. She made out just fine.

In addition, you are assuming that all couples are made up of a man and a w=
omen.

On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 18:18:15 -0400, FrozenNorth
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2017-04-27 3:51 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 14:03:56 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 27 Apr 2017 09:09:02 -0700, Electric Comet
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 26 Apr 2017 20:20:51 -0700 (PDT)
>>>> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So much for letting potential buyers use their imagination as to what
>>>>> the room could be used for. ;-)
>>>>
>>>> the point of removing furnishings is to make the space look and feel
>>>> bigger
>>>
>>> There is a limit to that. There should be enough in a room to make it
>>> look useful but not enough to make it junky. A lot of people can't
>>> "see" their bed in an empty room. OTOH, if there is a queen bed in
>>> the room, it's a lot easier to imagine your king in the same room.
>>> There is a reason people pay big money to stage homes.
>> Total waste of money in this local market where there are multiple
>> bids on virtually every listing, and they usually sell way over listed
>> price - with no conditions, and often sight unseen. Crazy I know, but
>> that's the market in the Greater Golden Horseshoe.
>>
>Yep, I own a house in Toronto, it is crazy to see the the listed price,
>and then hear the selling price. The last one on my street went over
>120K over asking.

A friend sold his house in Waterloo to a Toronto couple - first offer
- $75K over asking, no conditions cash offer - - -

On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 5:36:57 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <7c012f78-f231-4982-a065-d4655ff04f03
> @googlegroups.com>, [email protected] says...
> >=20
> > On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 3:08:13 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wr=
ote:
> > > As others said, empty the shop. From your description it sounds like=
this house could have a finished basement. Many potential buyers would se=
e the basement finished if it was empty for them to imagine. But if filled=
with shop equipment, and used for a specific purpose, its harder for them =
to imagine all that gone and the room finished into living space. Unfinish=
ed basements are also storage space to many people. If empty, its easy to =
see it as storage space. =20
> Also consider that half the people looking at the house will be women. A=
ssuming couples buy the house. By showing it as a shop for a man, you are =
automatically causing half the people looking at the house to instantly be =
deprived of ever using that basement. When selling things its not good to =
make half the buyers happy, man shop, and half the buyers filled with rage =
and hate for the place, women who cannot ever use the space.
> >=20
> > Did you miss the part of the description that stated that the shop was =
a separate space from
> > the "main" basement? 2 separate rooms, with the shop being about 1/3 of=
the overall basement.=20
> > No one was being "deprived of ever using that basement."
> >=20
> > BTW 2 of the things that came out if that shop was a brand new kitchen =
for the wife and a=20
> > bedroom set for both of them. She made out just fine.
> >=20
> > In addition, you are assuming that all couples are made up of a man and=
a women.
>=20
> And that a woman has no use for a shop full of=20
> tools. Paint it all pink and watch the=20
> realtor's head explode.

I have known one or two or maybe three women in my life. Have yet to meet =
any that do woodworking or mechanic work. Or yardwork. Or cut firewood. =
Or dig ditches. Not saying there are not any. There are. But very, very,=
very, very few. On TV I have seen women play football. Tackle football. =
In bikinis! Yeah. But I have yet to meet any women who play football. M=
en, usually young, will play football with each other. Have not seen any w=
omen playing football. Except on TV. In bikinis! I'm just guessing the b=
ikinis are important.

On 03 Apr 2017 21:35:48 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> Or a thousand miles South and get three times the house on 20 times
>> the property and still be within an hour[*] of six woodworking stores.
>> ;-)
>>
>> [*] Well, before a key highway collapsed.
>
>Yeah, but what happens when it rains?
>
>I've been there (Atlanta) when it's rained... Sure doesn't take long for
>someone to slide into someone and clog up all the major expressways out of
>town.
>
>Is Toronto better about that?
>
>Puckdropper


Significantly. I've driven through/around Atlanta a couple times -
the traffic is nothing compared to Toronto - but I've NEVER made the
trip without a traffic delay from some driver doing somethinf stupid.

On Mon, 3 Apr 2017 08:40:29 -0400, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 4/2/2017 10:57 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>>
>>> If it's really that hot, housing is very under priced. Ninety days is
>>> considered "normal". This isn't even the normal peak buying time.
>>>
>>> BTW, if I move again, I certainly wouldn't even try to buy a house
>>> after selling. Way too stressful.
>> When a 3 bedroom 45 year old semi-detatched home with no garage in a
>> "working class" subdivision sells for over $350,000 I don't think the
>> house is "under-priced"
>> With the influx of Toronto buyers I think you could sell a henhouse in
>> a week for what would have been the high end of the market for a
>> decent house less than 2 years ago.
>> It's NUTS.
>
>How easy is getting a mortgage? I hope it is not heading like our
>housing market before the bubble burst. Of course, if you earned $2000
>a month and your payment would be $1999 you qualified.
The mortgage "stress test" is pretty tight. You don't qualify for a
CMHC insured mortgage if you wouldn't pass at 3 or 4%? higher than
current levels..

As an example, at my bank, IF I was making $80,000 a year and was debt
free with a $50,000 down payment on a house with $3000 taxes and $750
anual heating bill, they would approve me for only $247,900 purchace
price (about $197,900 mortgage) with current payments of $1133.00 per
month.
A $4751 CMHC insurance fee is charged on that mortgage.

A minimum 5% down payment is required up to $500,000, and 10% on the
balance up to 1 million. Over 1 million no default insurance is
available and a 20% down payment on the total value is required.

At my current income I couldn't afford the mortgage on a chicken coop.

On 4/1/2017 12:50 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 09:28:14 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 4/1/2017 9:20 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> My neighbor is selling his house. He has a wood shop in his basement, maybe
>>> 15 x 25. Table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, a couple of workbenches, etc.
>>> The shop is at ground level, with a door to the back yard. Some pretty nice
>>> stuff has come out that shop.
>>>
>>> The rest of the basement is unfinished, basically one large room with the
>>> furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage shelves. Oh yeah,
>>> there's a shower stall bathroom in the corner. The basement can be accessed
>>> by stairs from the kitchen or through the shop. They are 2 separate spaces.
>>> It's sloped lot, allowing for a walk-out basement in the rear for the shop.
>>>
>>> His realtor has told him that he should empty the shop before showing the
>>> house, so he has moved all of his equipment and material to storage until
>>> his new house is ready.
>>>
>>> What are your thoughts? Would you have left the shop as staging or emptied
>>> the room like the realtor suggested? I know we are biased, so maybe we aren't
>>> the right people to ask. ;-) If staging bedrooms and kitchens is all the
>>> rage these days, why not stage a shop?
>>>
>>
>> If you have a place to move the equipment to, move it out. As hard as
>> this is to believe, not every man is a "He-man" and he may not, if he
>> even has any say in the matter, care to see wood working equipment. ;~)
>
> Even though some may not be "He-men" (do you know any?-), most see
> themselves that way. Even though they may not be avid woodworkers
> most would like some sort of place to get away. Home maintenance does
> take some space, too.

Did you not see my tongue in my cheek? ;!)



>
>> An empty room just looks bigger and uncluttered, that is what the
>> realtor and perspective buyers want to see for a storage area.
>> Basically the area is not only intended to be a shop and a perspective
>> buyer may see it as only a room intended to be a shop if it is filled
>> with equipment. If the room is empty the buyer can see it as any thing
>> he or she wants it to be.
>
> Filled, no. Used, yes. People really do want to see "lived-in"
> spaces. There is a whole home "staging" industry for a reason.
>

Understood and why I specifically mentioned "storage area" and not a
specific room in the house, like a bedroom, living room, dining room,
etc. An unmodified basement it typically storage.

In article <7c012f78-f231-4982-a065-d4655ff04f03
@googlegroups.com>, [email protected] says...
>
> On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 3:08:13 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> > As others said, empty the shop. From your description it sounds like this house could have a finished basement. Many potential buyers would see the basement finished if it was empty for them to imagine. But if filled with shop equipment, and used for a specific purpose, its harder for them to imagine all that gone and the room finished into living space. Unfinished basements are also storage space to many people. If empty, its easy to see it as storage space.
Also consider that half the people looking at the house will be women. Assuming couples buy the house. By showing it as a shop for a man, you are automatically causing half the people looking at the house to instantly be deprived of ever using that basement. When selling things its not good to make half the buyers happy, man shop, and half the buyers filled with rage and hate for the place, women who cannot ever use the space.
>
> Did you miss the part of the description that stated that the shop was a separate space from
> the "main" basement? 2 separate rooms, with the shop being about 1/3 of the overall basement.
> No one was being "deprived of ever using that basement."
>
> BTW 2 of the things that came out if that shop was a brand new kitchen for the wife and a
> bedroom set for both of them. She made out just fine.
>
> In addition, you are assuming that all couples are made up of a man and a women.

And that a woman has no use for a shop full of
tools. Paint it all pink and watch the
realtor's head explode.

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> On Sunday, April 2, 2017 at 12:44:10 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> > On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 5:36:57 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> > > In article <7c012f78-f231-4982-a065-d4655ff04f03
> > > @googlegroups.com>, [email protected] says...
> > > >
> > > > On Saturday, April 1, 2017 at 3:08:13 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> > > > > As others said, empty the shop. From your description it sounds like this house could have a finished basement. Many potential buyers would see the basement finished if it was empty for them to imagine. But if filled with shop equipment, and used for a specific purpose, its harder for them to imagine all that gone and the room finished into living space. Unfinished basements are also storage space to many people. If empty, its easy to see it as storage
space.
> > > Also consider that half the people looking at the house will be women. Assuming couples buy the house. By showing it as a shop for a man, you are automatically causing half the people looking at the house to instantly be deprived of ever using that basement. When selling things its not good to make half the buyers happy, man shop, and half the buyers filled with rage and hate for the place, women who cannot ever use the space.
> > > >
> > > > Did you miss the part of the description that stated that the shop was a separate space from
> > > > the "main" basement? 2 separate rooms, with the shop being about 1/3 of the overall basement.
> > > > No one was being "deprived of ever using that basement."
> > > >
> > > > BTW 2 of the things that came out if that shop was a brand new kitchen for the wife and a
> > > > bedroom set for both of them. She made out just fine.
> > > >
> > > > In addition, you are assuming that all couples are made up of a man and a women.
> > >
> > > And that a woman has no use for a shop full of
> > > tools. Paint it all pink and watch the
> > > realtor's head explode.
> >
> > I have known one or two or maybe three women in my life.
>
> I'd like a little more info related to that statement. Just curious...What
> do you mean by "known"?
>
> How does one go through life "knowing" only "one or two or maybe three
> women"? Heck, your mom counts as one so you don't have too many left to
> hit your max of 3.
>
> Do you mean "known" in the biblical sense?
>
> > Have yet to meet any that do woodworking or mechanic work. Or yardwork. Or cut firewood. Or dig ditches.
>
> Well, if you've only known 3, that's not surprising.
>
> Drive through my neighborhood sometime. Lots of woman joining their husbands
> or partners (if not single) doing all kinds of yard work, stacking wood,
> etc. Heck, 1/3 of my lot is comprised of SWMBO's gardens. She does 90% of the
> work related to them. I know enough not to intrude unless invited to help.
> (BTW I don't feel deprived of those areas)
>
> You know, now that I think about some of your earlier comments, I guess I'm
> going to have to rip out all of her gardens before we sell. I may be implying
> that the next owners can't have a full lawn or a pool or a patio because of
> the current contents of the gardens.
>
>
> > Not saying there are not any. There are. But very, very, very, very few. On TV I have seen women play football. Tackle football. In bikinis! Yeah. But I have yet to meet any women who play football. Men, usually young, will play football with each other. Have not seen any women playing football. Except on TV. In bikinis! I'm just guessing the bikinis are important.

I remember a rather attractive young lady dropping by a barn I was working
on and inquiring whether there were any odd pieces of the old structure or
siding available for purchase. On inquiry it turns out that she makes
furniture and likes to use the sort of vintage lumber one occasionally
finds in 200 year old barns.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> On 03 Apr 2017 21:35:48 GMT, Puckdropper
> <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>
> >[email protected] wrote in
> >news:[email protected]:
> >
> >>
> >> Or a thousand miles South and get three times the house on 20 times
> >> the property and still be within an hour[*] of six woodworking stores.
> >> ;-)
> >>
> >> [*] Well, before a key highway collapsed.
> >
> >Yeah, but what happens when it rains?
> >
> >I've been there (Atlanta) when it's rained... Sure doesn't take long for
> >someone to slide into someone and clog up all the major expressways out of
> >town.
> >
> >Is Toronto better about that?
> >
> >Puckdropper
>
>
> Significantly. I've driven through/around Atlanta a couple times -
> the traffic is nothing compared to Toronto - but I've NEVER made the
> trip without a traffic delay from some driver doing somethinf stupid.

I used to commute from the outskirts to Georgia Tech. Traffic wasn't
really that big a deal most days. A lot better than Hartford. Of course
Hell is probably better than Hartford.

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 09:28:14 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>>On 4/1/2017 9:20 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> My neighbor is selling his house. He has a wood shop in his basement, maybe
>>> 15 x 25. Table saw, jointer, planer, bandsaw, a couple of workbenches, etc.
>>> The shop is at ground level, with a door to the back yard. Some pretty nice
>>> stuff has come out that shop.
>>>
>>> The rest of the basement is unfinished, basically one large room with the
>>> furnace, water heater, washer, dryer and some storage shelves. Oh yeah,
>>> there's a shower stall bathroom in the corner. The basement can be accessed
>>> by stairs from the kitchen or through the shop. They are 2 separate spaces.
>>> It's sloped lot, allowing for a walk-out basement in the rear for the shop.
>>>
>>> His realtor has told him that he should empty the shop before showing the
>>> house, so he has moved all of his equipment and material to storage until
>>> his new house is ready.
>>>
>>> What are your thoughts? Would you have left the shop as staging or emptied
>>> the room like the realtor suggested? I know we are biased, so maybe we aren't
>>> the right people to ask. ;-) If staging bedrooms and kitchens is all the
>>> rage these days, why not stage a shop?
>>>
>>
>>If you have a place to move the equipment to, move it out. As hard as
>>this is to believe, not every man is a "He-man" and he may not, if he
>>even has any say in the matter, care to see wood working equipment. ;~)
>
> Even though some may not be "He-men" (do you know any?-), most see
> themselves that way. Even though they may not be avid woodworkers
> most would like some sort of place to get away. Home maintenance does
> take some space, too.
>
>>An empty room just looks bigger and uncluttered, that is what the
>>realtor and perspective buyers want to see for a storage area.
>>Basically the area is not only intended to be a shop and a perspective
>>buyer may see it as only a room intended to be a shop if it is filled
>>with equipment. If the room is empty the buyer can see it as any thing
>>he or she wants it to be.
>
> Filled, no. Used, yes. People really do want to see "lived-in"
> spaces. There is a whole home "staging" industry for a reason.
>
My son just sold his house. They were advised to move out completely
and clean it up, of course. It sold in less than 24 hours.

--
GW Ross

On Thursday, April 6, 2017 at 12:57:58 PM UTC-4, woodchucker wrote:

> >
> So what you are saying is people have no imagination and can only see it=
=20
> for what it is.
>=20
> Years ago, homes were never staged, you went out and saw what people=20
> had. You used your imagination. Figured out what you wanted it to look=
=20
> like.
>=20
> --=20
> Jeff

Yes! Exactly. Repulsive, but true. If you have ever watched any of thos=
e "Buy it now" type home shows, think of the number of times someone's said=
"Ugh. We can't buy this house! The walls are green! How awful! We're out=
of here." I just shake my head...then turn the channel. =20

But if that's how people think about green (pink, brown, paneled, papered) =
walls which are ridiculous easy to change, then just imagine how they are v=
iewing a room with nearly a ton of hardened steel and cast iron equipment i=
n the middle of it. That's not to mention the walls full of ductwork, condu=
it, lumber racks, and everything else we all take for granted or consider a=
n asset to our spaces. =20

On Sat, 1 Apr 2017 12:08:08 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>As others said, empty the shop. From your description it sounds like this house could have a finished basement. Many potential buyers would see the basement finished if it was empty for them to imagine. But if filled with shop equipment, and used for a specific purpose, its harder for them to imagine all that gone and the room finished into living space. Unfinished basements are also storage space to many people. If empty, its easy to see it as storage space. Also consider that half the people looking at the house will be women. Assuming couples buy the house. By showing it as a shop for a man, you are automatically causing half the people looking at the house to instantly be deprived of ever using that basement. When selling things its not good to make half the buyers happy, man shop, and half the buyers filled with rage and hate for the place, women who cannot ever use the space.

Sure they can. They use it to get rid of him!

Our basement is about 2500 ft^2 of unfinished space but it wouldn't
take much to finish it (I'm considering whether to sheetrock all the
walls this year but I doubt I'll get it past the finance committee).
No one would use it all for storage space, though I'm sure few would
use half of it for shop space, either. Were I to sell the house, I
would probably move the big tools out and leave the rest.

On Monday, April 3, 2017 at 10:01:10 PM UTC-4, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> says...
> >
> > On 03 Apr 2017 21:35:48 GMT, Puckdropper
> > <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
> >
> > >[email protected] wrote in
> > >news:[email protected]:
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Or a thousand miles South and get three times the house on 20 times
> > >> the property and still be within an hour[*] of six woodworking stores.
> > >> ;-)
> > >>
> > >> [*] Well, before a key highway collapsed.
> > >
> > >Yeah, but what happens when it rains?
> > >
> > >I've been there (Atlanta) when it's rained... Sure doesn't take long for
> > >someone to slide into someone and clog up all the major expressways out of
> > >town.
> > >
> > >Is Toronto better about that?
> > >
> > >Puckdropper
> >
> >
> > Significantly. I've driven through/around Atlanta a couple times -
> > the traffic is nothing compared to Toronto - but I've NEVER made the
> > trip without a traffic delay from some driver doing somethinf stupid.
>
> I used to commute from the outskirts to Georgia Tech. Traffic wasn't
> really that big a deal most days. A lot better than Hartford. Of course
> Hell is probably better than Hartford.

I grew up in NYC. I hated NYC traffic since Day 1.

My family and I used to leave for Jones Beach at 6AM. We'd eat breakfast at the beach,
swim until it got crowded and then drive home, laughing at all the people stuck in traffic
on the LIE and Meadowbrook trying to get to Jones Beach. (and they were going to be
stuck on the way home too.)

After getting out of the USCG and going to college in NYC, I only took interviews for
jobs outside of NYC. Why? Because I grew up in NYC and I hated NYC traffic since Day 1.

I like to drive and for the past 30+ years I've been able to.