What's The Drill?

On Tue, 22 May 2012 12:59:09 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>John Shear wrote:
>
>>
>> What really differentiates one brand from another is the internals, so
>> unfortunately it's hard to compare brands. One thing that would be
>> handy is a little built-in LED worklight if any drills have such a
>> thing.
>
>Some - if not perhaps, most do have that now John. I know my 3 year old
>Ridgid does have an LED - and as foolish as I might have thought that to be
>at one time - it really is a help. Especially as the eyes get... not so
>good! I suspect (and cannot verify) that this is becoming a common thing.

No kidding, since I don't do bifocals some times that led is a real
joy, or my big head is blocking the light.

Mike M

On Tue, 22 May 2012 14:44:29 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>John Shear wrote:
>> Hmm, I just turned 50 and have never used a drill press and haven't
>> been in a situation where I thought to myself "man, having a drill
>> press sure would make my life easier". I do have a Jet Benchtop
>> Mortiser because it was obvious how that would make my projects get
>> done faster with better quality. So educate me on what makes a drill
>> press a valuable thing to have (ie, what am I missing out on?).
>>
>
>Maybe it's the difference in how we use (would use) it John. I use mine for
>very precise holes. Don't get me wrong - I still use my drill motor for a
>lot f holes, but when precision counts, I turn to my drill press. That
>said - I also do a lot ofmetal work, and not just wood work.

Agree totally and if your drilling metal the drill press improves life
as well as good bits and cutting oil. I've always wanted one of the
magnetic ones but can't justify it.

Mike M

Dave wrote:

>
> Personally, I think it's mostly irrelevant if there's a lifetime
> warranty on these ubiquitous tools. By the time they wear out or a
> battery dies and/or can't be rebuilt, one would likely want to upgrade
> to something newer, at least I would.

Unless, within the realm of things breaking before they should - they do.
Then... that warranty becomes very valuable.

>
> Take battery technology. Lithium Ion batteries are currently in the
> forefront of popularity. They're lighter and more powerful than the
> previous generation of batteries and they charge faster too. Upgrades
> in this type of technology are happening every few years.

So what - if your battery fails, do you want to buy a new one, or get a free
one under warranty?

>
> Agreed, one doesn't have to go for the latest technology, but most
> people do.

Maybe... but not so sure this is really true.

> And for people who do woodworking professionally, like Karl
> and Leon, the newer tools are a boon. The Domino and the Domino XL are
> graphic examples of this.

The very same arguments you expressed above could be applied to those tools

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 5/24/2012 1:16 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> Correct, you do not want to run a Li-Ion until it is dead, It is good
>> to run it down to less than 20% charge 10~12 times a year.
>
> I don't think you really can, can you? The think with LI is that it runs
> pretty much flat until it hits its threshold, and then immediately drops off
> to poop-land. I don't know what level the battery is actually at, at that
> point, but it had been my understanding that that's how you were supposed to
> use them. That's what all the manufacturers told us when I was at HD.
>
> Besides that, I believe all LI chargers are intelligent and they do a couple
> of things - one they test/measure/evaluate the condition of the battery,
> they pre-drain it, and then they charge it. That makes it seem like it
> would not matter how far you run it, the charge is going to do all of those
> things anyway.
>

I see a dead battery as one that will not turn the motor when the
trigger is pulled. I never go that far on a L-I. Now Festool does not
indicate what I mentioned but I basically repeated what I have read
about Li-Ion batteries in general. My Festool has a fuel gauge. I use
the drill a little while after 2 of the 3 indicator lights go out and
then swap batteries and recharge.

On 5/22/2012 1:54 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Dave wrote:
>
>>
>> Personally, I think it's mostly irrelevant if there's a lifetime
>> warranty on these ubiquitous tools. By the time they wear out or a
>> battery dies and/or can't be rebuilt, one would likely want to upgrade
>> to something newer, at least I would.
>
> Unless, within the realm of things breaking before they should - they do.
> Then... that warranty becomes very valuable.

Agree here, especially with the case of the Ridgid brand and the fact
that they warrant the batteries. Who has not gone through a set of
batteries long before the tool was worn out? I believe that most people
are prompted to replace cordless tools because replacing a couple of
batteries is a significant amount that could go towards replacing
everything with the newer features, like Dave said. But for corded
drills where you really don't know what will fail, and is that failure
is likely to be much longer down the road than the life expectancy of
batteries I am likely to keep the tool a very long time.
However, plate joiners and the Domino are the exception. ;~)

Keith Nuttle wrote:

>
> This is a different spin on your question, but you may consider
> "replacing" it with a small bench top drill press. (not one that uses
> a hand drill).
>
> Many years age we were at a traveling tool sale, and they had a drill
> press for $39. I had always thought I need a drill press but could
> never justify one. $39 did not need a lot of justification.
>
> The bottom line is I am now using the drill press for most of my
> drilling needs. I don't remember when I last used the hand drill. For
> those times when I need to drill to put up a curtain rod or such,
> I use my Dremmel or one of those old ratchet drills.

Different spin or not - you hit a keen point Keith - a drill press is indeed
an essential tool. Preach it brother!

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 5/23/2012 6:23 PM, Steve B wrote:
> "Dave"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Wed, 23 May 2012 07:19:43 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> What do you do to make them last? ;~)
>>
>> Easy answer. I don't use them as much as you do. As a habit, I run a
>> battery right down and then recharge it fully before I use it again.
>> That habit is not as necessary these days as it was in the past, but
>> it has become my habit anyway.
>
> I'll put a slip tie on mine, and let it run.
>
> Steve
>
>


And recharge it as soon as it sounds like it's getting low.

Running a battery down below 50% charge WILL shorten it's life.

Leaving it uncharged for weeks will kill it even quicker.


Back in my motorcycle days there was a quote -

Ride every day the battery will last near forever.
Once a week it may last a year.
Onece a month it may not last a year.

On 5/24/2012 12:27 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 5/24/12 12:03 AM, Richard wrote:
>> On 5/23/2012 9:04 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 5/23/12 8:39 PM, Richard wrote:
>>>> On 5/23/2012 6:23 PM, Steve B wrote:
>>>>> "Dave"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> On Wed, 23 May 2012 07:19:43 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>>> What do you do to make them last? ;~)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Easy answer. I don't use them as much as you do. As a habit, I run a
>>>>>> battery right down and then recharge it fully before I use it again.
>>>>>> That habit is not as necessary these days as it was in the past, but
>>>>>> it has become my habit anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll put a slip tie on mine, and let it run.
>>>>>
>>>>> Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And recharge it as soon as it sounds like it's getting low.
>>>>
>>>> Running a battery down below 50% charge WILL shorten it's life.
>>>>
>>>> Leaving it uncharged for weeks will kill it even quicker.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Back in my motorcycle days there was a quote -
>>>>
>>>> Ride every day the battery will last near forever.
>>>> Once a week it may last a year.
>>>> Onece a month it may not last a year.
>>>
>>>
>>> Your motorcycle battery was probably plain old lead acid.
>>> Newer batteries are apples and oranges in chemistry compared to lead
>>> acid and the rules are different depending on if they are NiCad, NiMH,
>>> Li‑ion, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> True.
>> But...
>> You still have to use them regularly to keep them healthy.
>> And taking them below 50% charge will still shorten their lives.
>>
>
> I'm pretty sure this isn't true with all batteries.
>
>

Nicads like to go lower.
But for the rest, yeah, pretty much.

Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 22 May 2012 14:54:59 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>> Unless, within the realm of things breaking before they should -
>> they do. Then... that warranty becomes very valuable.
>
> Sure, in a perfect world, a warranty or a lifetime warranty if you
> prefer, is certainly useful in the case of something breaking before
> its time. But, all the tools I've every bought which includes drills,
> have come with a substantial warranty to start. That's three years in
> the case of my DeWalt drills. They're almost five years old now and
> there's no hint of tool failure or battery dying anywhere. If a drill
> dies on me at this point, I'll likely upgrade to a Li-Ion drill
> because of the advantages to it. Or, in the case of battery, I'll
> consider having it rebuilt.
>

That's fair Dave, but I have owned tools that have had value to me long past
the 3 year warranty peiod, and I do not feel I need to buy a new one in
three years, just because they made some incremental improvement. In the
case of Rigid, if they upgrade the batteries, you end up with the upgraded
battery. That has been my personal experience.

> Either way, in my almost 30 years of woodworking experience when I
> bought my first cordless drill, never have I had one fail on me
> (drill or battery) prematurely.

Well - that's pretty subjective. What do you define as "prematurely"? If
you mean within the warranty period - that can be a legitimate definition,
but it is not not what I expect out of a tool.


>
> That's what I'm trying to say. In my case anyway, a lifetime warranty
> is wasted on me and I'd suggest on most others too.
>

Well - my experience with many brands of tools is different than yours then.
I have had many batteries for example, die within the warranty period of the
tool - only to find that batteries are not covered by the warranty. Why
would you argue against a company that actually does warranty their
batteries as well as the not-likely-to-be-encountered-failure in materials
and workmanship?

>
> Answered above. But, just to give you an answer, by the time my first
> battery started dying on me (Milwaukee brand, five or six years old),
> they no longer made that type of battery because of advances in
> battery technology. A lifetime warranty would have been useless.
>

And my experience with DeWalt was that the damned batteries crapped out well
within the tool warranty period. Stuck - because the batteries were not
covered under the warranty. And you consider that to be good?


There is no one here - including those who think they are the peak of
professional workmanship, who need to have the latest and greatest, most
best tool on the market. If the damned tool is good - then it is good and
it will serve. I don't even want to hear any more about how an expensive
tool will save 3 minutes of work - that's just hogwash. If you feel you can
justify buying new tools every couple of years, then god bless ya - I don't.
I just will not succomb to that line of thinking. I've been working with
too many tools that are more than 3 years old, to fall prey to that line of
crap.


>
> I'd suggest it is true. We live in an instant gratification society
> and the newer technologies are most definitely at the forefront of
> that 'instant gratification'.
>

Then you need to get out into the real world Dave. Having worked at HD, I
can tell you that what you say about people needing the newest and greatest
and all that stuff is pure crap. Believe what you will, but people just do
not buy that way. Surprise!


>>> And for people who do woodworking professionally, like Karl
>>> and Leon, the newer tools are a boon. The Domino and the Domino XL
>>> are graphic examples of this.
>>
>> The very same arguments you expressed above could be applied to
>> those tools
>
> Also answered above. But, these aren't cordless tools and they don't
> have anything near approaching a lifetime warranty. I shouldn't have
> used them as an example to bolster my original argument. However, they
> *are* newer technology, so they do fit the criteria of a new degree of
> usefulness and that's why people *will* buy them.

What does cordless have to do with it? It's the concept.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Tim Daneliuk <[email protected]> wrote in news:d88r89-o4d.ln1
@ozzie.tundraware.com:

> My beloved Makita 9V cordless drill is finally worn out. I think I got
> my money's worth - 18 years of home improvement, furniture projects,
> and general maintenance.
>
> So ... what shall I buy to replace it. I am looking at another
> Makita or a DeWalt (both 18V Li).
>
> What is the Wreck-wisdom here?
>
>

I have the Makita drill/driver kit that came in the LCT300W combo. (I
see the LCT200W combo still, same drill/driver no flashlight.) I'm
extremely happy with the tools, but after about 5 years they are starting
to show their age. The chuck on the drill is a little fiddly now, and
battery runtime seems to have significantly decreased. However, with 3
batteries and approximately 30 minute recharge time it's difficult to run
out of battery.

The tools still do their job quite well, and are a long way from being
worn out. The impact driver still drives screws as well as it did on day
one, and the drill runs true and easily.

There's two sizes of Makita batteries out there, one is 1.5 Ah and the
other is 3 Ah. It might be worth looking at the 3 Ah drills because that
battery will also work with other tools in their line. I have a circular
saw that "requires" a 3 Ah battery (or a little surgery for a 1.5 Ah
battery).

The Panasonics I've used have worked quite well, but I don't have much
experience with them. One purred like a tribble, but I don't think it
reproduced like one!

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Since I live in Wisconsin, I'll be bias toward Wisconsin companies when
they make a competitive, quality product. So it's Milwaukee drills for
me. The only problem is they last forever so I never have a reason to
buy a new one.
I got my 9v cordless when it was the best available at the time. Later
when I got into larger, more frequent projects I got a (best at the
time) 14.4v L/ion for drilling and dedicated the 9v to driving screws.
I have 3 battery packs for each drill and every few years I'll take the
one with the oldest batteries to Batteries Plus for a rebuild. I label
battery packs with the date purchased or rebuilt so I can stagger them.
Haven't needed to rebuild any 14.4v packs yet.
Is rebuilding battery packs a simple DIY task or does it require
something special?

What really differentiates one brand from another is the internals, so
unfortunately it's hard to compare brands. One thing that would be
handy is a little built-in LED worklight if any drills have such a thing.

John S.

On 05/21/2012 08:54 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> My beloved Makita 9V cordless drill is finally worn out. I think I got
> my money's worth - 18 years of home improvement, furniture projects,
> and general maintenance.
>
> So ... what shall I buy to replace it. I am looking at another
> Makita or a DeWalt (both 18V Li).
>
> What is the Wreck-wisdom here?
>
>

Hmm, I just turned 50 and have never used a drill press and haven't been
in a situation where I thought to myself "man, having a drill press sure
would make my life easier". I do have a Jet Benchtop Mortiser because
it was obvious how that would make my projects get done faster with
better quality. So educate me on what makes a drill press a valuable
thing to have (ie, what am I missing out on?).

John S.

On 05/22/2012 11:55 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>
>>
>> This is a different spin on your question, but you may consider
>> "replacing" it with a small bench top drill press. (not one that uses
>> a hand drill).
>>
>> Many years age we were at a traveling tool sale, and they had a drill
>> press for $39. I had always thought I need a drill press but could
>> never justify one. $39 did not need a lot of justification.
>>
>> The bottom line is I am now using the drill press for most of my
>> drilling needs. I don't remember when I last used the hand drill. For
>> those times when I need to drill to put up a curtain rod or such,
>> I use my Dremmel or one of those old ratchet drills.
>
> Different spin or not - you hit a keen point Keith - a drill press is indeed
> an essential tool. Preach it brother!
>

Dave <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> Personally, I think it's mostly irrelevant if there's a lifetime
> warranty on these ubiquitous tools. By the time they wear out or a
> battery dies and/or can't be rebuilt, one would likely want to upgrade
> to something newer, at least I would.
>

*snip*

The nice thing about the Ridgid warranty is that batteries are covered as
well. Tool manufacturers are making entire lines of tools that use the
same batteries, so when the batteries finally die it's possible to have
several hundred or even a couple thousand invested in portable tools.

What's a couple batteries compared to having to replace half your shop?

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Ok, you have lots of good ideas guys. Having never had a drill press, I
just found my own ways to do those things and it never seemed
inconvenient to where I'd need a better tool.
When I drill metal it's never for something where I'd need precision so
hand drilling was simple. I'm not a metal worker. ;)
I rarely drill round stock, and certainly didn't need to be real precise
when I did. I suppose if I decide to build chairs that'll be a
different story.
For drilling with forstener bits, a hole saw without a guide bit, or
re-drilling a hole to a larger size, I just make a quick-and-dirty jig
with plywood to guide the bit.
For things (like shelf pins) where being perpendicular is important, I
have a little triangle square I set next to the bit to visually guide
me. Also for shelf pins, I just have a cardboard template to mark the
hole locations then drill away - no jig needed. Ya, for you guys that
do more quantity that's probably tedious but for my less frequent
(hobbyist) work, it's quick and easy.

I am interested in trying to make wooden hinges that I've seen in a
couple of places lately. I wondered how they drill out for the hinge
pin. I guess that's a very good reason for drill press, but I could
come up with a jig for that too.

Thanks for the ideas guys. I will definitely have a drill press on my
radar screen. Now that you've planted a seed, I'll be more likely to
come across that moment when I say "man, it sure would be easier with a
drill press". You're all great at helping someone find a way to spend
more money. :)

John S.

On 05/23/2012 07:43 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 5/22/2012 1:25 PM, John Shear wrote:
>> Hmm, I just turned 50 and have never used a drill press and haven't been
>> in a situation where I thought to myself "man, having a drill press sure
>> would make my life easier". I do have a Jet Benchtop Mortiser because it
>> was obvious how that would make my projects get done faster with better
>> quality. So educate me on what makes a drill press a valuable thing to
>> have (ie, what am I missing out on?).
>
> A drill press is a tool you are glad you have on certain occasions. You
> certainly can get by with out one although I have pretty much always had
> one. But I don't use it nearly as often as say my tables saw, sanders, etc.
> BUT something I have seen done with out a DP and I would never want to
> try with out is boring 35mm/1-3/8" holes in cabinet doors to accept Euro
> style hinges. I do hundreds of these holes and the time saved has more
> than paid for the DP with just this procedure.
> If you turn pens a DP is extremely helpful for drilling down the center
> of a 5" long 3/4" square blank.
> Any drilling that requires exact placement of the hole is better done on
> a DP.
>

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:


>
> I love mine, and wish all my drills had one. I don't know why they
> didn't put it on sooner. I will not buy another without it. My two
> drill/impact set came with the impact with a light, and the drill not.
> Wonder why. I love that light.
>
> Steve
>

The only thing missing from my jigsaw is a light. I miss it just about
every time I turn on the tool, I've been spoiled by the drill/drivers that
have them.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On 5/23/2012 8:58 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
> Sorry that may have been the M18 it was a Brushless drill
>
> On 5/23/2012 10:53 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
>> At Home Depot the other day they had the Milwakee M28 drill on the demo
>> table.
>> $299..
>>
>> I didn't like it. The clutch setting wasn't good. The driver would jump
>> out of the screws because of too much torque and speed. One guy thought
>> I wasn't pressing hard enough, so he took over. Same thing.
>>
>> The bit was good, so it wasn't the bit. There was just too much power
>> without control for the new latest and greatest.
>>
>> Driving into a 2x4 the screws never fully sank before camming out.

I have an 18 volt Bosch that will do the same thing with
cheap screws. ;-)

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> "Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> The only thing missing from my jigsaw is a light. I miss it just
>> about every time I turn on the tool, I've been spoiled by the
>> drill/drivers that have them.
>>
>> Puckdropper
>> --
>> Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
>
> Ya know, with those cheap little $4 LED flashlights at the auto parts
> stores, a fix to that would be easy, and provide plenty of light.
> Just duct tape it ........ errrrrrr........... make a wood mount for
> it. Duct tape is temporary, everyone knows that.
>
> Steve
>
>

I'm not really sure where I'd mount something like that. There's levers
and controls all around the blade. If I didn't care about messing it up
by opening it up, I'd figure out how to add one. A white LED doesn't
need much space at all.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Leon wrote:

>
> I see a dead battery as one that will not turn the motor when the
> trigger is pulled. I never go that far on a L-I. Now Festool does
> not indicate what I mentioned but I basically repeated what I have
> read about Li-Ion batteries in general. My Festool has a fuel gauge.
> I use the drill a little while after 2 of the 3 indicator lights go
> out and then swap batteries and recharge.

Yeah - I've seen other brands that use that fuel guage as well, but my
Ridgid does not, so I use it until it doesn't... It actually does give you
a small amount of warning in that it begins to behave erratically, but at
that point, you're really very near out of juice. I think the fuel guages
are a great idea, and if mine had them, I would likely change out batteries
sooner than I do now. For all I know, using mine the way I have may have
contributed to the original batteries crapping out in the first place, but
like I said - all the manufacturer's reps told us that LI didn't suffer this
kind of problem. Go figure, huh?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Tue, 22 May 2012 12:52:45 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>> In the case of the Ridgid life time covers maintenance and wear out. It is
>> a good warranty.
>
>Sorry Leon - not sure how to figure out what you are saying, so I'll take
>the safe way through this - yes it does cover wear out from normal use. I
>think your last sentence says what I am trying to say - it really is a good
>warranty.

Personally, I think it's mostly irrelevant if there's a lifetime
warranty on these ubiquitous tools. By the time they wear out or a
battery dies and/or can't be rebuilt, one would likely want to upgrade
to something newer, at least I would.

Take battery technology. Lithium Ion batteries are currently in the
forefront of popularity. They're lighter and more powerful than the
previous generation of batteries and they charge faster too. Upgrades
in this type of technology are happening every few years.

Agreed, one doesn't have to go for the latest technology, but most
people do. And for people who do woodworking professionally, like Karl
and Leon, the newer tools are a boon. The Domino and the Domino XL are
graphic examples of this.

Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> My beloved Makita 9V cordless drill is finally worn out. I think I got
> my money's worth - 18 years of home improvement, furniture projects,
> and general maintenance.
>
> So ... what shall I buy to replace it. I am looking at another
> Makita or a DeWalt (both 18V Li).
>
> What is the Wreck-wisdom here?

I got a Ridgid set for Christmas a few years ago, and I love it. It's 18v.
The lifetime warranty is a thing of beauty! It even covers the batteries.
Mine are the full size batteries, and they just last forever. If I were to
purchase one it would have either been a Makita or another DeWalt, but like
I said this was a gift and it's been great.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Leon wrote:

>
> In the case of the Ridgid life time covers maintenance and wear out. It is
> a good warranty.

Sorry Leon - not sure how to figure out what you are saying, so I'll take
the safe way through this - yes it does cover wear out from normal use. I
think your last sentence says what I am trying to say - it really is a good
warranty.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Leon wrote:

>
> Correct, you do not want to run a Li-Ion until it is dead, It is good
> to run it down to less than 20% charge 10~12 times a year.

I don't think you really can, can you? The think with LI is that it runs
pretty much flat until it hits its threshold, and then immediately drops off
to poop-land. I don't know what level the battery is actually at, at that
point, but it had been my understanding that that's how you were supposed to
use them. That's what all the manufacturers told us when I was at HD.

Besides that, I believe all LI chargers are intelligent and they do a couple
of things - one they test/measure/evaluate the condition of the battery,
they pre-drain it, and then they charge it. That makes it seem like it
would not matter how far you run it, the charge is going to do all of those
things anyway.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Well lets not have a "hissy fit". I'm glad that *you* know. I
>>> included a disclaimer and you're not the only reader here. If you
>>> were in charge, this group might only have 5 or 6 new posts a
>>> day--which I think is why no one appointed you yet! I'm in a good
>>> mood; just playin'.
>>
>> No hissy fit. I just find it funny that a guy who asks more
>> questions than he does accomplish any work, choses to raise
>> questions. It might seem that those who express that they have had
>> real experiences, would have at least a little bit of a credible
>> platform. If you had asked about my warranty experiences, that
>> would have been one thing, and I would have gladly explained it
>> further, but for you to counsel is a bit different. Maybe you
>> should use that google thing that many of us point you to. You
>> would have seen that the Ridgid warranty is everything it is cracked
>> up to be. So - your next point on the Ridgid warranty?
>
>
> I think you mean Rigid. I'm sorry I mentioned the "lifetime"
> warrantee. On some products the "lifetime" is over when they come out
> with a new version. Gotta be careful (is all I was saying).

Bill - don't wonder. Spend the 30 seconds to actually look at the warranty
on line, rather than asking questions that are already answered. No - if
you do your research, you don't have to be careful.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:27:45 -0700, Mike M
>> For me I'm content with
>> the Dewalt 18 volt for what I'm doing now
>
> Maybe I'm guessing wrongly, but since you've had it awhile, I'm
> assuming it uses an XRP battery. Your arm ever get tired holding up
> that drill Mike? Mine does with it's XRP battery and I can pretty much
> guarantee you with thirty years of pushing my manual wheelchair
> around, my arms are NOT weak.
>
> An so, the next question is have you looked at one of the new DeWalt
> 20v Li-Ion drills with battery? If so, the first thing you would have
> noticed is how much smaller the battery is and how much lighter the
> drill is. If you did notice, did you say to yourself how nice it might
> be to have one of those instead? I sure did.
>

Did you happen to notice the amperage of that 20v battery Dave? My gun
originally came with the smaller 18v batteries (1.5A or something like
that). They didn't last more than a couple of years before they started
misbehaving. Took them in for warranty replacement and received the 3A
style because they did not have an 1.5A. Huge difference in performance!
Kinda soured me on the smaller batteries.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Steve B wrote:
>> A "lifetime warranty" is great. Just make sure you understand the
>> way that the word "lifetime" is defined in the warranty so that you
>> are not disappointed a few years down the road. I have no knowledge
>> about this one.
>>
>
> Lots of borg stores, you just take the dead one in, and they hand you
> a new one.
>

Not all. My HD store did not take them back. Used to, but they stopped.
Some do, and some don't. Ridgid does have warranty centers all over the
place though.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 5/23/2012 9:04 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 5/23/12 8:39 PM, Richard wrote:
>> On 5/23/2012 6:23 PM, Steve B wrote:
>>> "Dave"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> On Wed, 23 May 2012 07:19:43 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> What do you do to make them last? ;~)
>>>>
>>>> Easy answer. I don't use them as much as you do. As a habit, I run a
>>>> battery right down and then recharge it fully before I use it again.
>>>> That habit is not as necessary these days as it was in the past, but
>>>> it has become my habit anyway.
>>>
>>> I'll put a slip tie on mine, and let it run.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> And recharge it as soon as it sounds like it's getting low.
>>
>> Running a battery down below 50% charge WILL shorten it's life.
>>
>> Leaving it uncharged for weeks will kill it even quicker.
>>
>>
>> Back in my motorcycle days there was a quote -
>>
>> Ride every day the battery will last near forever.
>> Once a week it may last a year.
>> Onece a month it may not last a year.
>
>
> Your motorcycle battery was probably plain old lead acid.
> Newer batteries are apples and oranges in chemistry compared to lead
> acid and the rules are different depending on if they are NiCad, NiMH,
> Li‑ion, etc.
>
>

True.
But...
You still have to use them regularly to keep them healthy.
And taking them below 50% charge will still shorten their lives.

On Wed, 23 May 2012 07:19:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> What do you do to make them last? ;~)

Easy answer. I don't use them as much as you do. As a habit, I run a
battery right down and then recharge it fully before I use it again.
That habit is not as necessary these days as it was in the past, but
it has become my habit anyway.

On 5/22/2012 1:25 PM, John Shear wrote:
> Hmm, I just turned 50 and have never used a drill press and haven't been
> in a situation where I thought to myself "man, having a drill press sure
> would make my life easier". I do have a Jet Benchtop Mortiser because it
> was obvious how that would make my projects get done faster with better
> quality. So educate me on what makes a drill press a valuable thing to
> have (ie, what am I missing out on?).

A drill press is a tool you are glad you have on certain occasions. You
certainly can get by with out one although I have pretty much always had
one. But I don't use it nearly as often as say my tables saw, sanders,
etc.
BUT something I have seen done with out a DP and I would never want to
try with out is boring 35mm/1-3/8" holes in cabinet doors to accept Euro
style hinges. I do hundreds of these holes and the time saved has more
than paid for the DP with just this procedure.
If you turn pens a DP is extremely helpful for drilling down the center
of a 5" long 3/4" square blank.
Any drilling that requires exact placement of the hole is better done on
a DP.

LION batteries should not be discharged past a certain point.
Doing so kills them.

Same with LIPos' but even worse.
A LIPo can puff up.. and if it does, and it gets punctured watch out...
Big smoke cloud an awful noxious black cloud... Lots of fire, and the
HISS is unbelievable...

SCARED THE CRAP out of me. Water did not put it out, but controlled the
fire. The thing still was going off under water.... bubbling...
YIKES..

Fortunately it was not mine.. It was a friends... But everything was
melted... DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME... The people in this video were not
professionals... therefore they had brown stains in their pants......
:-)



On 5/24/2012 9:38 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> I see a dead battery as one that will not turn the motor when the
>> trigger is pulled. I never go that far on a L-I. Now Festool does
>> not indicate what I mentioned but I basically repeated what I have
>> read about Li-Ion batteries in general. My Festool has a fuel gauge.
>> I use the drill a little while after 2 of the 3 indicator lights go
>> out and then swap batteries and recharge.
>
> Yeah - I've seen other brands that use that fuel guage as well, but my
> Ridgid does not, so I use it until it doesn't... It actually does give you
> a small amount of warning in that it begins to behave erratically, but at
> that point, you're really very near out of juice. I think the fuel guages
> are a great idea, and if mine had them, I would likely change out batteries
> sooner than I do now. For all I know, using mine the way I have may have
> contributed to the original batteries crapping out in the first place, but
> like I said - all the manufacturer's reps told us that LI didn't suffer this
> kind of problem. Go figure, huh?
>

On 5/22/2012 10:05 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:27:45 -0700, Mike M
>> For me I'm content with
>> the Dewalt 18 volt for what I'm doing now
>
> Maybe I'm guessing wrongly, but since you've had it awhile, I'm
> assuming it uses an XRP battery. Your arm ever get tired holding up
> that drill Mike? Mine does with it's XRP battery and I can pretty much
> guarantee you with thirty years of pushing my manual wheelchair
> around, my arms are NOT weak.

No kidding! Untill drill makers went to LiIon I was not interested in a
heavy big voltage drill. They are ok for a few shor tasks but I
certainly would be tired after a day of use in the shop. I worked with
9.6 until I had to move up to 12 volt and used that until I got my
lighter weight 15.x Festool.


>
> An so, the next question is have you looked at one of the new DeWalt
> 20v Li-Ion drills with battery? If so, the first thing you would have
> noticed is how much smaller the battery is and how much lighter the
> drill is. If you did notice, did you say to yourself how nice it might
> be to have one of those instead? I sure did.
>
> Possibly not for the home owner who might use it once a week, but it
> sure would make a big difference for someone using a drill like that a
> few times every day. And since I'm into woodworking, even though I
> don't do it professionally, I frequently use my DeWalt drill a number
> of times every day.

Another thing to consider with the latest technology, about 7~8 years
ago I bought a 12 volt Makita drill and impact drive. The impact pretty
much holds it's won with any voltage drill including many corded ones as
far a power goes. With my next voltage step up Festool 15.x drill I
have not yet used my impact driver. I am thinking the brushless motors
may be offering more than just less things to go wrong. I never would
have drilled pocket holes with out a corded drill, now I do. 3" screws
go in as fast now as with the impact.

On 5/23/2012 9:53 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
> At Home Depot the other day they had the Milwakee M28 drill on the demo
> table.
> $299..
>
> I didn't like it. The clutch setting wasn't good. The driver would jump
> out of the screws because of too much torque and speed. One guy thought
> I wasn't pressing hard enough, so he took over. Same thing.
>
> The bit was good, so it wasn't the bit. There was just too much power
> without control for the new latest and greatest.
>
> Driving into a 2x4 the screws never fully sank before camming out.

I believe that problem was more of a problem with the screw head unless
you simply could not easily control the speed. Too much start out speed
can exacerbate the cam out tendency even in square drive.
My situation was 3"torx/star head screws going fully into and joining
2x4 stock. I could stop the drill 3/4 into the drive and start up
slowly to finish driving in the screw as a slow pace, if I wanted. I
have lots or start up torque so pulling the trigger further does not
deliver more torque, only speed. Additionally the clutch on the Festool
is electronic which also regulates the top speed when in any given
clutch setting. When the desire torque setting is reached the drill
shuts down and beeps. Release the trigger and pull again to resume.

On 5/24/2012 12:03 AM, Richard wrote:
> On 5/23/2012 9:04 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 5/23/12 8:39 PM, Richard wrote:
>>> On 5/23/2012 6:23 PM, Steve B wrote:
>>>> "Dave"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> On Wed, 23 May 2012 07:19:43 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>> What do you do to make them last? ;~)
>>>>>
>>>>> Easy answer. I don't use them as much as you do. As a habit, I run a
>>>>> battery right down and then recharge it fully before I use it again.
>>>>> That habit is not as necessary these days as it was in the past, but
>>>>> it has become my habit anyway.
>>>>
>>>> I'll put a slip tie on mine, and let it run.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And recharge it as soon as it sounds like it's getting low.
>>>
>>> Running a battery down below 50% charge WILL shorten it's life.
>>>
>>> Leaving it uncharged for weeks will kill it even quicker.
>>>
>>>
>>> Back in my motorcycle days there was a quote -
>>>
>>> Ride every day the battery will last near forever.
>>> Once a week it may last a year.
>>> Onece a month it may not last a year.
>>
>>
>> Your motorcycle battery was probably plain old lead acid.
>> Newer batteries are apples and oranges in chemistry compared to lead
>> acid and the rules are different depending on if they are NiCad, NiMH,
>> Li‑ion, etc.
>>
>>
>
> True.
> But...
> You still have to use them regularly to keep them healthy.
> And taking them below 50% charge will still shorten their lives.

Perhaps true for some but not the case with most modern power tool
batteries. I have not recharged the 18 volt Li-Ion batteries in my
Bosch impact drive this year at all. I can go out and use it right now
and it will work fine.

I don't use the tool much at all, I apparently I won it as it showe up
on my door step and I already had a preferred Makita. But I have
probably had it 4+ years and it sets for months on end with out being
charged or used and it has shown no signs of premature failure. That is
the nature of this type technology.
Further it is typical for a Li-Ion battery to be good for so many charge
and discharge cycles. A single full charge cycle is either run down
completely and recharged fully or it can be run down 33% and recharged
three times to equal a full discharge cycle. It is recommended to run
these type batteries down to less than 20% charge at least once monthly.

On 5/23/2012 6:24 PM, Dave wrote:
> On 23 May 2012 20:35:43 GMT, Puckdropper
>> The only thing missing from my jigsaw is a light. I miss it just about
>> every time I turn on the tool, I've been spoiled by the drill/drivers that
>> have them
>
> A light is nice on a jigsaw, but I much prefer a blower tube to keep
> the dust off the cut line.

No kidding! LOL. Every jig saw that I have owned has had a blower but
never enough blow to do any good.

On 5/23/2012 9:03 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> On 05/23/2012 06:23 PM, Steve B wrote:
>> "Dave"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On Wed, 23 May 2012 07:19:43 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> What do you do to make them last? ;~)
>>>
>>> Easy answer. I don't use them as much as you do. As a habit, I run a
>>> battery right down and then recharge it fully before I use it again.
>>> That habit is not as necessary these days as it was in the past, but
>>> it has become my habit anyway.
>>
>> I'll put a slip tie on mine, and let it run.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>
> Actually, with Li this is a bad idea. NiCads required this full
> discharge cycle but I believe this actually decreases Li life ...
> or so I've read.
>

Correct, you do not want to run a Li-Ion until it is dead, It is good
to run it down to less than 20% charge 10~12 times a year.

On 5/23/2012 8:54 AM, John Shear wrote:
> Ok, you have lots of good ideas guys. Having never had a drill press, I
> just found my own ways to do those things and it never seemed
> inconvenient to where I'd need a better tool.
> When I drill metal it's never for something where I'd need precision so
> hand drilling was simple. I'm not a metal worker. ;)
> I rarely drill round stock, and certainly didn't need to be real precise
> when I did. I suppose if I decide to build chairs that'll be a different
> story.
> For drilling with forstener bits, a hole saw without a guide bit, or
> re-drilling a hole to a larger size, I just make a quick-and-dirty jig
> with plywood to guide the bit.
> For things (like shelf pins) where being perpendicular is important, I
> have a little triangle square I set next to the bit to visually guide
> me. Also for shelf pins, I just have a cardboard template to mark the
> hole locations then drill away - no jig needed. Ya, for you guys that do
> more quantity that's probably tedious but for my less frequent
> (hobbyist) work, it's quick and easy.
>
> I am interested in trying to make wooden hinges that I've seen in a
> couple of places lately. I wondered how they drill out for the hinge
> pin. I guess that's a very good reason for drill press, but I could come
> up with a jig for that too.

This is probably the best tool for that job.

http://www.incrementaltools.com/INCRA_HingeCrafter_p/hingecrafter.htm

> For things (like shelf pins) where being perpendicular is important, I
> have a little triangle square I set next to the bit to visually guide
> me. Also for shelf pins, I just have a cardboard template to mark the
> hole locations then drill away - no jig needed. Ya, for you guys that do
> more quantity that's probably tedious but for my less frequent
> (hobbyist) work, it's quick and easy.
>

Try a block with a V cut into it. Just put the V up against the bit. It
keeps it aligned both ways and allows chips to fall out.

I have a porta align... about 40 year old Craftsman drill guide on 2
rods. Perfect for centering, and drilling perpendicular..

But it's a bear to hold horizontally, so instead of clamping it, I just
use a V block.

Also in one of the mags I saw a neat trick of putting a larger eyebolt
on the bit. If the bit moves toward you your pointing up.. but it only
works in one axis.. I like the V block.

Bill wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>>> My beloved Makita 9V cordless drill is finally worn out. I think I
>>> got my money's worth - 18 years of home improvement, furniture
>>> projects, and general maintenance.
>>>
>>> So ... what shall I buy to replace it. I am looking at another
>>> Makita or a DeWalt (both 18V Li).
>>>
>>> What is the Wreck-wisdom here?
>>
>> I got a Ridgid set for Christmas a few years ago, and I love it. It's
>> 18v. The lifetime warranty is a thing of beauty!
>
> A "lifetime warranty" is great. Just make sure you understand the
> way that the word "lifetime" is defined in the warranty so that you
> are not disappointed a few years down the road. I have no knowledge
> about this one.

I do Bill. I have already used it, and understand it very well. I wasn't
born yesterday and I do understand how these terms get misused. You might
do well to google the Rigid warranty. It is what it says it is.


--

-Mike-
[email protected]

John Shear wrote:

>
> What really differentiates one brand from another is the internals, so
> unfortunately it's hard to compare brands. One thing that would be
> handy is a little built-in LED worklight if any drills have such a
> thing.

Some - if not perhaps, most do have that now John. I know my 3 year old
Ridgid does have an LED - and as foolish as I might have thought that to be
at one time - it really is a help. Especially as the eyes get... not so
good! I suspect (and cannot verify) that this is becoming a common thing.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 22 May 2012 16:42:19 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>> Then you need to get out into the real world Dave. Having worked at
>> HD, I can tell you that what you say about people needing the newest
>> and greatest and all that stuff is pure crap. Believe what you
>> will, but people just do not buy that way. Surprise!
>
> Really? And you're telling me to get out in the real world? You may
> have untold years of experience at Home Depot, but you're information
> is woefully out of date. When *was* the last time you worked there
> Mike?

Not that long ago Dave. People don't come in and buy the latest and
greatest just because it came out. It costs too much. When they need to
replace something, they step up, but it's a rare consumer that upgrades just
because something new came along. What I consider more surprising is the
people who will spend stupid money on replacement batteries. For not a lot
more, they could often have upgraded and had more tool - but they didn't.
They buy the replacement batteries.


>
> Look at the teenagers these days. Look at all the people under 30
> years of age. How many until millions in the US scrape by from month
> to month trying to pay down their debt to their maxed out credit
> cards? And, don't even consider trying to tell me they don't exist.

Sure - but that's a whole different matter.

> For them it's all about buying the latest and greatest and keeping up
> with all their friends. They're constantly spurred onto greater debt
> by advertising and the very society they live in. Do you really want
> to tell me that stuff is crap???

I would argue that it's not so much about buying the latest and greatest of
everything as it is about having to have whatever they want, right now
instead of saving for it.

>
> Get your damned head out of the sand Mike. It's not the older
> generation like us that have this problem, it's the younger ones who
> are driving the market into interminable debt spurred on by this
> instant gratification society of ours.

Agree on the instant gratification thing Dave, but that's different. You
don't find a lot of those folks walking into HD or Lowes and buying new
screw guns when something new comes out.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Bill wrote:

>
> Well lets not have a "hissy fit". I'm glad that *you* know. I
> included a disclaimer and you're not the only reader here. If you
> were in charge, this group might only have 5 or 6 new posts a
> day--which I think is why no one appointed you yet! I'm in a good
> mood; just playin'.

No hissy fit. I just find it funny that a guy who asks more questions than
he does accomplish any work, choses to raise questions. It might seem that
those who express that they have had real experiences, would have at least a
little bit of a credible platform. If you had asked about my warranty
experiences, that would have been one thing, and I would have gladly
explained it further, but for you to counsel is a bit different. Maybe you
should use that google thing that many of us point you to. You would have
seen that the Ridgid warranty is everything it is cracked up to be.

So - your next point on the Ridgid warranty?

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 5/21/2012 8:54 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> My beloved Makita 9V cordless drill is finally worn out. I think I got
> my money's worth - 18 years of home improvement, furniture projects,
> and general maintenance.
>
> So ... what shall I buy to replace it. I am looking at another
> Makita or a DeWalt (both 18V Li).
>
> What is the Wreck-wisdom here?
>
>

Well, Makita still builds a good drill/tool, Go with the green models.

I have owned DeWalt, Makita, Panasonic, and Festool. Oh yeah I have a
Bosch impactor that I have used about 3 times in the last 3 or so years.


I am partial to the Festool but you are going to spend some money.

Least favorite for me, Bosch and DeWalt.

On 5/21/2012 9:55 PM, Bill wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>>> My beloved Makita 9V cordless drill is finally worn out. I think I got
>>> my money's worth - 18 years of home improvement, furniture projects,
>>> and general maintenance.
>>>
>>> So ... what shall I buy to replace it. I am looking at another
>>> Makita or a DeWalt (both 18V Li).
>>>
>>> What is the Wreck-wisdom here?
>>
>> I got a Ridgid set for Christmas a few years ago, and I love it. It's
>> 18v.
>> The lifetime warranty is a thing of beauty!
>
> A "lifetime warranty" is great. Just make sure you understand the way
> that the word "lifetime" is defined in the warranty so that you are not
> disappointed a few years down the road. I have no knowledge about this one.
>
>
> It even covers the batteries.
>> Mine are the full size batteries, and they just last forever. If I
>> were to
>> purchase one it would have either been a Makita or another DeWalt, but
>> like
>> I said this was a gift and it's been great.
>>
>

In the case of the Ridgid life time covers maintenance and wear out. It
is a good warranty.

On 05/21/2012 08:54 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> My beloved Makita 9V cordless drill is finally worn out. I think I got
> my money's worth - 18 years of home improvement, furniture projects,
> and general maintenance.
>
> So ... what shall I buy to replace it. I am looking at another
> Makita or a DeWalt (both 18V Li).
>
> What is the Wreck-wisdom here?
>
>

Thanks all for your input ... which made the decision approximately
as hard as when I started :)

I have a new DeWalt DCD760KL kit on the way. I really loved the old
Makita but the new ones of comparable quality were a bit out of reach
$ wise...

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk [email protected]
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

On Mon, 21 May 2012 20:54:50 -0500, Tim Daneliuk
<[email protected]> wrote:

>My beloved Makita 9V cordless drill is finally worn out. I think I got
>my money's worth - 18 years of home improvement, furniture projects,
>and general maintenance.
>
>So ... what shall I buy to replace it. I am looking at another
>Makita or a DeWalt (both 18V Li).
>
>What is the Wreck-wisdom here?

Opinions will vary as to which size is best, let alone which brand.

I have a 15V Panasonic NiMH and a 12V Milwaukie Lion and I use the 12
V most of the time. The little guy doesn't have a 2nd gear so drilling
is a bit on the slow side. But it is light and nimble and fine for
most of the things I do, and gets into tight places, etc.

There are times I need a more muscle I still need the heavier duty
drill. Or if I am driving plenty of screws that need drilling /
countersinking I set up the Panasonic to drill (it spins faster) and
the little guy to drive the screws.

On 23 May 2012 20:35:43 GMT, Puckdropper
>The only thing missing from my jigsaw is a light. I miss it just about
>every time I turn on the tool, I've been spoiled by the drill/drivers that
>have them

A light is nice on a jigsaw, but I much prefer a blower tube to keep
the dust off the cut line.

John Shear wrote:
> Hmm, I just turned 50 and have never used a drill press and haven't
> been in a situation where I thought to myself "man, having a drill
> press sure would make my life easier". I do have a Jet Benchtop
> Mortiser because it was obvious how that would make my projects get
> done faster with better quality. So educate me on what makes a drill
> press a valuable thing to have (ie, what am I missing out on?).
>

Maybe it's the difference in how we use (would use) it John. I use mine for
very precise holes. Don't get me wrong - I still use my drill motor for a
lot f holes, but when precision counts, I turn to my drill press. That
said - I also do a lot ofmetal work, and not just wood work.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Dave wrote:
> On Thu, 24 May 2012 08:41:42 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> Which I do, I get 4~6 years out of them but they do poop out as they
>> are only going to take so many discharge and recharge cycles and
>> they do have a shelf life.
>
> 4-6 years is great as far as I'm concerned. After that, you can decide
> if you want to have them rebuilt or upgrade to something else. And YES
> MIKE, a lifetime warranty is nice if batteries die. But in the grand
> scheme of things, with the tools that I buy and use, paying for
> rebuilt batteries or having them replaced for free is inconsequential
> either way.

That's certainly fair enough - it's a preference thing. I did not mean to
say that the lifetime battery warranty was the biggest thing I liked about
the warranty, just to say that unlike other manufacturers, they actually do
warranty the batteries. I generally keep a tool like this for longer than
the normal manufacturer's warranty period, so I find the lifetime to be
worthwhile.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On 5/22/2012 11:52 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> In the case of the Ridgid life time covers maintenance and wear out. It is
>> a good warranty.
>
> Sorry Leon - not sure how to figure out what you are saying, so I'll take
> the safe way through this - yes it does cover wear out from normal use. I
> think your last sentence says what I am trying to say - it really is a good
> warranty.
>

The confusion may be because I was responding to Bill, not you.

But don't you find the impact would drive with less effort, prevent cam
out too? I prefer my 12v impact over the 18v drill for heavier work. It
has yet to let me down. I could do decks with this 12v impact its that good.
>
> Another thing to consider with the latest technology, about 7~8 years
> ago I bought a 12 volt Makita drill and impact drive. The impact pretty
> much holds it's won with any voltage drill including many corded ones as
> far a power goes. With my next voltage step up Festool 15.x drill I have
> not yet used my impact driver. I am thinking the brushless motors may be
> offering more than just less things to go wrong. I never would have
> drilled pocket holes with out a corded drill, now I do. 3" screws go in
> as fast now as with the impact.

At Home Depot the other day they had the Milwakee M28 drill on the demo
table.
$299..

I didn't like it. The clutch setting wasn't good. The driver would jump
out of the screws because of too much torque and speed. One guy thought
I wasn't pressing hard enough, so he took over. Same thing.

The bit was good, so it wasn't the bit. There was just too much power
without control for the new latest and greatest.

Driving into a 2x4 the screws never fully sank before camming out.

Sorry that may have been the M18 it was a Brushless drill

On 5/23/2012 10:53 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
> At Home Depot the other day they had the Milwakee M28 drill on the demo
> table.
> $299..
>
> I didn't like it. The clutch setting wasn't good. The driver would jump
> out of the screws because of too much torque and speed. One guy thought
> I wasn't pressing hard enough, so he took over. Same thing.
>
> The bit was good, so it wasn't the bit. There was just too much power
> without control for the new latest and greatest.
>
> Driving into a 2x4 the screws never fully sank before camming out.

On 5/23/2012 8:39 PM, Richard wrote:
> On 5/23/2012 6:23 PM, Steve B wrote:
>> "Dave"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On Wed, 23 May 2012 07:19:43 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> What do you do to make them last? ;~)
>>>
>>> Easy answer. I don't use them as much as you do. As a habit, I run a
>>> battery right down and then recharge it fully before I use it again.
>>> That habit is not as necessary these days as it was in the past, but
>>> it has become my habit anyway.
>>
>> I'll put a slip tie on mine, and let it run.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>
>
> And recharge it as soon as it sounds like it's getting low.
>
> Running a battery down below 50% charge WILL shorten it's life.
>
> Leaving it uncharged for weeks will kill it even quicker.
>
>
> Back in my motorcycle days there was a quote -
>
> Ride every day the battery will last near forever.
> Once a week it may last a year.
> Onece a month it may not last a year.

Totally different battery technology. Many types of batteries will
discharge with no drain, Li-Ion not so much.

On Thu, 24 May 2012 08:41:42 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>Which I do, I get 4~6 years out of them but they do poop out as they are
>only going to take so many discharge and recharge cycles and they do
>have a shelf life.

4-6 years is great as far as I'm concerned. After that, you can decide
if you want to have them rebuilt or upgrade to something else. And YES
MIKE, a lifetime warranty is nice if batteries die. But in the grand
scheme of things, with the tools that I buy and use, paying for
rebuilt batteries or having them replaced for free is inconsequential
either way.

On Mon, 21 May 2012 20:54:50 -0500, Tim Daneliuk
<[email protected]> wrote:

>My beloved Makita 9V cordless drill is finally worn out. I think I got
>my money's worth - 18 years of home improvement, furniture projects,
>and general maintenance.
>
>So ... what shall I buy to replace it. I am looking at another
>Makita or a DeWalt (both 18V Li).
>
>What is the Wreck-wisdom here?

Panasonic, Bosch, Milwaukee. I've seen too many people complain about
the yellow Black & Decker drills. No experience with Makita

On Wed, 23 May 2012 10:28:29 -0700, "Steve B" <[email protected]>
>Just looking at guys toolbags and in their trucks at their tools, I very
>rarely see a shiny new one. Most look like they've been run through a gold
>processing machine. And the guy wouldn't part with it for a new one.
>
>Maybe things are different from where I live.

No, you're looking at people who use their tools to make a living.
Those are not the people I was referring to. A contractor needs to
allocate money wisely if he/she is going to stay in business.

I'm talking people who spend money or use their credit cards on
something that isn't at all necessary to survive. Hell, look at the
housing problem in the US. How many people were convinced to buy with
incredibly low interest rates and rock bottom down payments? The
mortgage companies promoted the hell out of easy home ownership.
Suddenly, everybody is surprised when they lose the house because they
can't afford it?

These people should never have got a mortgage in the first place. Yet,
they were 'lemminged' into buying because it was the American dream.
Again, it's all about want without a good measure of restraint to keep
it in check.

On Tue, 22 May 2012 23:05:08 -0400, Dave <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:27:45 -0700, Mike M
>> For me I'm content with
>>the Dewalt 18 volt for what I'm doing now
>
>Maybe I'm guessing wrongly, but since you've had it awhile, I'm
>assuming it uses an XRP battery. Your arm ever get tired holding up
>that drill Mike? Mine does with it's XRP battery and I can pretty much
>guarantee you with thirty years of pushing my manual wheelchair
>around, my arms are NOT weak.
>
>An so, the next question is have you looked at one of the new DeWalt
>20v Li-Ion drills with battery? If so, the first thing you would have
>noticed is how much smaller the battery is and how much lighter the
>drill is. If you did notice, did you say to yourself how nice it might
>be to have one of those instead? I sure did.
>
>Possibly not for the home owner who might use it once a week, but it
>sure would make a big difference for someone using a drill like that a
>few times every day. And since I'm into woodworking, even though I
>don't do it professionally, I frequently use my DeWalt drill a number
>of times every day.


No your assumptions are correct and it wasn't light , but doing
electrical work overhead it was one of the lighter things we dealt
with. But I dated it's primary use, and qualified it with judging
what your use and needs were. I don't know that it's what I would buy
today, but I'm heavily invested and on disability so not likely to
change unless I'm back in the trades when anything that makes the day
go better is justified.

Mike M

On 5/22/2012 2:24 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 22 May 2012 14:54:59 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>> Unless, within the realm of things breaking before they should - they do.
>> Then... that warranty becomes very valuable.
>
> Sure, in a perfect world, a warranty or a lifetime warranty if you
> prefer, is certainly useful in the case of something breaking before
> its time. But, all the tools I've every bought which includes drills,
> have come with a substantial warranty to start. That's three years in
> the case of my DeWalt drills. They're almost five years old now and
> there's no hint of tool failure or battery dying anywhere. If a drill
> dies on me at this point, I'll likely upgrade to a Li-Ion drill
> because of the advantages to it. Or, in the case of battery, I'll
> consider having it rebuilt.
>
> Either way, in my almost 30 years of woodworking experience when I
> bought my first cordless drill, never have I had one fail on me
> (drill or battery) prematurely. Whenever I've gone to something new,
> it's been because of a desire for a newer capability/technology tool.

WOW! I have owned 9 different cordless drills/driver/impacts and have
bought replacements batteries for all, except for one my first DeWalt as
a whole new drill with two batteries was $99 and two new batteries was
more expensive. And I have not yet bought replacements for my Festool
yet or the Bosch impactor that I rarely use.
What do you do to make them last? ;~)

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>> My beloved Makita 9V cordless drill is finally worn out. I think I got
>> my money's worth - 18 years of home improvement, furniture projects,
>> and general maintenance.
>>
>> So ... what shall I buy to replace it. I am looking at another
>> Makita or a DeWalt (both 18V Li).
>>
>> What is the Wreck-wisdom here?
>
> I got a Ridgid set for Christmas a few years ago, and I love it. It's 18v.
> The lifetime warranty is a thing of beauty!

A "lifetime warranty" is great. Just make sure you understand the
way that the word "lifetime" is defined in the warranty so that you are
not disappointed a few years down the road. I have no knowledge about
this one.


It even covers the batteries.
> Mine are the full size batteries, and they just last forever. If I were to
> purchase one it would have either been a Makita or another DeWalt, but like
> I said this was a gift and it's been great.
>

On 5/21/2012 9:54 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
> My beloved Makita 9V cordless drill is finally worn out. I think I got
> my money's worth - 18 years of home improvement, furniture projects,
> and general maintenance.
>
> So ... what shall I buy to replace it. I am looking at another
> Makita or a DeWalt (both 18V Li).
>
> What is the Wreck-wisdom here?
>
>

This is a different spin on your question, but you may consider
"replacing" it with a small bench top drill press. (not one that uses a
hand drill).

Many years age we were at a traveling tool sale, and they had a drill
press for $39. I had always thought I need a drill press but could
never justify one. $39 did not need a lot of justification.

The bottom line is I am now using the drill press for most of my
drilling needs. I don't remember when I last used the hand drill. For
those times when I need to drill to put up a curtain rod or such, I use
my Dremmel or one of those old ratchet drills.

I'm late to the party, but....
I'm extremely pleased with the Bosch 18v L-Ion drill I recently got from
Lowes when they had the drill/charger/2 batts for $99. They have a
drill&impact driver combo for around $249, now. One of they really nice
features is the way the chuck "locks" when it clamps to a bit. With most
hand chucks you have to use two hands to tighten them. With the Bosch,
the motor side of the chuck locks in place and you just need one hand to
tighten the bit side. Very convenient!

My local Home Depot has their Ridgid 18v L-Ion drill&impact driver combo
with 2 batts/charger on sale for $199. That is a great deal for those.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>>>> My beloved Makita 9V cordless drill is finally worn out. I think I
>>>> got my money's worth - 18 years of home improvement, furniture
>>>> projects, and general maintenance.
>>>>
>>>> So ... what shall I buy to replace it. I am looking at another
>>>> Makita or a DeWalt (both 18V Li).
>>>>
>>>> What is the Wreck-wisdom here?
>>>
>>> I got a Ridgid set for Christmas a few years ago, and I love it. It's
>>> 18v. The lifetime warranty is a thing of beauty!
>>
>> A "lifetime warranty" is great. Just make sure you understand the
>> way that the word "lifetime" is defined in the warranty so that you
>> are not disappointed a few years down the road. I have no knowledge
>> about this one.
>
> I do Bill. I have already used it, and understand it very well. I wasn't
> born yesterday and I do understand how these terms get misused. You might
> do well to google the Rigid warranty. It is what it says it is.

Well lets not have a "hissy fit". I'm glad that *you* know. I included a
disclaimer and you're not the only reader here. If you were in charge,
this group might only have 5 or 6 new posts a day--which I think is why
no one appointed you yet! I'm in a good mood; just playin'.

Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>>
>> Well lets not have a "hissy fit". I'm glad that *you* know. I
>> included a disclaimer and you're not the only reader here. If you
>> were in charge, this group might only have 5 or 6 new posts a
>> day--which I think is why no one appointed you yet! I'm in a good
>> mood; just playin'.
>
> No hissy fit. I just find it funny that a guy who asks more questions than
> he does accomplish any work, choses to raise questions. It might seem that
> those who express that they have had real experiences, would have at least a
> little bit of a credible platform. If you had asked about my warranty
> experiences, that would have been one thing, and I would have gladly
> explained it further, but for you to counsel is a bit different. Maybe you
> should use that google thing that many of us point you to. You would have
> seen that the Ridgid warranty is everything it is cracked up to be.
>
> So - your next point on the Ridgid warranty?


I think you mean Rigid. I'm sorry I mentioned the "lifetime"
warrantee. On some products the "lifetime" is over when they come out
with a new version. Gotta be careful (is all I was saying).

Bill wrote:
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Well lets not have a "hissy fit". I'm glad that *you* know. I
>>> included a disclaimer and you're not the only reader here. If you
>>> were in charge, this group might only have 5 or 6 new posts a
>>> day--which I think is why no one appointed you yet! I'm in a good
>>> mood; just playin'.
>>
>> No hissy fit. I just find it funny that a guy who asks more questions
>> than
>> he does accomplish any work, choses to raise questions. It might seem
>> that
>> those who express that they have had real experiences, would have at
>> least a
>> little bit of a credible platform. If you had asked about my warranty
>> experiences, that would have been one thing, and I would have gladly
>> explained it further, but for you to counsel is a bit different. Maybe
>> you
>> should use that google thing that many of us point you to. You would have
>> seen that the Ridgid warranty is everything it is cracked up to be.
>>
>> So - your next point on the Ridgid warranty?
>
>
> I think you mean Rigid. I'm sorry I mentioned the "lifetime" warrantee.
> On some products the "lifetime" is over when they come out with a new
> version. Gotta be careful (is all I was saying).
>

Oops, look like it is Ridgid.

On 5/22/12 1:25 PM, John Shear wrote:
> Hmm, I just turned 50 and have never used a drill press and haven't been
> in a situation where I thought to myself "man, having a drill press sure
> would make my life easier". I do have a Jet Benchtop Mortiser because it
> was obvious how that would make my projects get done faster with better
> quality. So educate me on what makes a drill press a valuable thing to
> have (ie, what am I missing out on?).
>
> John S.
>

I drill press is like any other bench version of a tool. You don't
"need" it to do anything you couldn't do with the handheld version, but
once you have one, you wondered how to lived without it.

It speeds up a lot of processes. It's indispensable for repeatable
tasks. Drilling in round stock it a hundred times easier with a press.
Drill in metal without punching a starter dimple.
Now that I think about it, it does some things you can't do with a
handheld drill. You can drill right over a smaller hole to make it
bigger. You can use hole saws without a guide bit.... I have several
diamond saws that don't have center bits.

A press also multitasks as a drum sander which comes in handy quite
often. Like someone else stated, even the cheap ones are really handy. I
got my Ryobi for 50 bucks on clearance and if it's not the best $50 I
ever spent, it's in the top 5. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

>
> A "lifetime warranty" is great. Just make sure you understand the way
> that the word "lifetime" is defined in the warranty so that you are not
> disappointed a few years down the road. I have no knowledge about this
> one.
>

Lots of borg stores, you just take the dead one in, and they hand you a new
one.

Steve

"Tim Daneliuk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> My beloved Makita 9V cordless drill is finally worn out. I think I got
> my money's worth - 18 years of home improvement, furniture projects,
> and general maintenance.
>
> So ... what shall I buy to replace it. I am looking at another
> Makita or a DeWalt (both 18V Li).
>
> What is the Wreck-wisdom here?

I was given a 18v. Dewalt, a combo with the impact. I like it a lot. The
impact has a light and that is extremely useful, I wish the drill had the
light. The Ridgid has the light. There may be a good choice out there
right now of three to five models. They are all good, and have different
bells and whistles. It just depends on what's on sale, and what you buy and
are used to, or if it is free.

Steve

"Tim Daneliuk" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

My beloved Makita 9V cordless drill is finally worn out. I think I got
my money's worth - 18 years of home improvement, furniture projects,
and general maintenance.

So ... what shall I buy to replace it. I am looking at another
Makita or a DeWalt (both 18V Li).

What is the Wreck-wisdom here?


I haven't read the rest of the responses so I don't know if anyone has
suggested this, but here goes from my experience:

I've got that same Makita 9V cordless as my garage drill (the knuckle
battery, not the long straight one). It's still in good shape and I use it
regularly and like it because of the light weight and good balance, but for
work down on the boat I recently bought a Festool CXS and I really like it.
It was expensive at $250, but it's a sweetheart. 10.8V lithium-ion, and has
considerably more power than the Makita, much longer battery life, and might
actually be lighter. When I bring the Festool home from the boat for good
I'm going to turn the Makita over to my wife and keep the CXS for myself.

So there's my opinion.

Tom

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Steve B wrote:
>>> A "lifetime warranty" is great. Just make sure you understand the
>>> way that the word "lifetime" is defined in the warranty so that you
>>> are not disappointed a few years down the road. I have no knowledge
>>> about this one.
>>>
>>
>> Lots of borg stores, you just take the dead one in, and they hand you
>> a new one.
>>
>
> Not all. My HD store did not take them back. Used to, but they stopped.
> Some do, and some don't. Ridgid does have warranty centers all over the
> place though.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-

I stand corrected. Since mine did, I ass-u-med all did.

Steve

"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote

>
> Really? And you're telling me to get out in the real world? You may
> have untold years of experience at Home Depot, but you're information
> is woefully out of date. When *was* the last time you worked there
> Mike?
>
> Look at the teenagers these days. Look at all the people under 30
> years of age. How many until millions in the US scrape by from month
> to month trying to pay down their debt to their maxed out credit
> cards? And, don't even consider trying to tell me they don't exist.
> For them it's all about buying the latest and greatest and keeping up
> with all their friends. They're constantly spurred onto greater debt
> by advertising and the very society they live in. Do you really want
> to tell me that stuff is crap???
>
> Get your damned head out of the sand Mike. It's not the older
> generation like us that have this problem, it's the younger ones who
> are driving the market into interminable debt spurred on by this
> instant gratification society of ours.

Just looking at guys toolbags and in their trucks at their tools, I very
rarely see a shiny new one. Most look like they've been run through a gold
processing machine. And the guy wouldn't part with it for a new one.

Maybe things are different from where I live.

Steve

"Mike M" <[email protected]> wrote

>>Some - if not perhaps, most do have that now John. I know my 3 year old
>>Ridgid does have an LED - and as foolish as I might have thought that to
>>be
>>at one time - it really is a help. Especially as the eyes get... not so
>>good! I suspect (and cannot verify) that this is becoming a common thing.
>
> No kidding, since I don't do bifocals some times that led is a real
> joy, or my big head is blocking the light.
>
> Mike M

I love mine, and wish all my drills had one. I don't know why they didn't
put it on sooner. I will not buy another without it. My two drill/impact
set came with the impact with a light, and the drill not. Wonder why. I
love that light.

Steve

"Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>
>>
>> I love mine, and wish all my drills had one. I don't know why they
>> didn't put it on sooner. I will not buy another without it. My two
>> drill/impact set came with the impact with a light, and the drill not.
>> Wonder why. I love that light.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
> The only thing missing from my jigsaw is a light. I miss it just about
> every time I turn on the tool, I've been spoiled by the drill/drivers that
> have them.
>
> Puckdropper
> --
> Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

Ya know, with those cheap little $4 LED flashlights at the auto parts
stores, a fix to that would be easy, and provide plenty of light. Just duct
tape it ........ errrrrrr........... make a wood mount for it. Duct tape is
temporary, everyone knows that.

Steve

"Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 23 May 2012 07:19:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> What do you do to make them last? ;~)
>
> Easy answer. I don't use them as much as you do. As a habit, I run a
> battery right down and then recharge it fully before I use it again.
> That habit is not as necessary these days as it was in the past, but
> it has become my habit anyway.

I'll put a slip tie on mine, and let it run.

Steve

On 5/23/12 8:39 PM, Richard wrote:
> On 5/23/2012 6:23 PM, Steve B wrote:
>> "Dave"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On Wed, 23 May 2012 07:19:43 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> What do you do to make them last? ;~)
>>>
>>> Easy answer. I don't use them as much as you do. As a habit, I run a
>>> battery right down and then recharge it fully before I use it again.
>>> That habit is not as necessary these days as it was in the past, but
>>> it has become my habit anyway.
>>
>> I'll put a slip tie on mine, and let it run.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>
>
> And recharge it as soon as it sounds like it's getting low.
>
> Running a battery down below 50% charge WILL shorten it's life.
>
> Leaving it uncharged for weeks will kill it even quicker.
>
>
> Back in my motorcycle days there was a quote -
>
> Ride every day the battery will last near forever.
> Once a week it may last a year.
> Onece a month it may not last a year.


Your motorcycle battery was probably plain old lead acid.
Newer batteries are apples and oranges in chemistry compared to lead
acid and the rules are different depending on if they are NiCad, NiMH,
Li‑ion, etc.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 5/23/2012 7:22 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Wed, 23 May 2012 10:28:29 -0700, "Steve B"<[email protected]>
>> Just looking at guys toolbags and in their trucks at their tools, I very
>> rarely see a shiny new one. Most look like they've been run through a gold
>> processing machine. And the guy wouldn't part with it for a new one.
>>
>> Maybe things are different from where I live.
>
> No, you're looking at people who use their tools to make a living.
> Those are not the people I was referring to. A contractor needs to
> allocate money wisely if he/she is going to stay in business.
>
> I'm talking people who spend money or use their credit cards on
> something that isn't at all necessary to survive. Hell, look at the
> housing problem in the US. How many people were convinced to buy with
> incredibly low interest rates and rock bottom down payments? The
> mortgage companies promoted the hell out of easy home ownership.
> Suddenly, everybody is surprised when they lose the house because they
> can't afford it?
>
> These people should never have got a mortgage in the first place. Yet,
> they were 'lemminged' into buying because it was the American dream.
> Again, it's all about want without a good measure of restraint to keep
> it in check.

Regardless of what the American Dream is, or whether the government is
pushing low interest loans, Common sense says if you have debt to earns
ratio of 86% you should not buy a house that increase the debt ratio to
130%.

These last generations have been brought up thinking they are not
accountable for their actions. So what ever caused the housing bust,
and there are media reasons and valid reason, maybe in the future people
will remember that there are consequences to their actions.

On 5/24/12 12:03 AM, Richard wrote:
> On 5/23/2012 9:04 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 5/23/12 8:39 PM, Richard wrote:
>>> On 5/23/2012 6:23 PM, Steve B wrote:
>>>> "Dave"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> On Wed, 23 May 2012 07:19:43 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>> What do you do to make them last? ;~)
>>>>>
>>>>> Easy answer. I don't use them as much as you do. As a habit, I run a
>>>>> battery right down and then recharge it fully before I use it again.
>>>>> That habit is not as necessary these days as it was in the past, but
>>>>> it has become my habit anyway.
>>>>
>>>> I'll put a slip tie on mine, and let it run.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And recharge it as soon as it sounds like it's getting low.
>>>
>>> Running a battery down below 50% charge WILL shorten it's life.
>>>
>>> Leaving it uncharged for weeks will kill it even quicker.
>>>
>>>
>>> Back in my motorcycle days there was a quote -
>>>
>>> Ride every day the battery will last near forever.
>>> Once a week it may last a year.
>>> Onece a month it may not last a year.
>>
>>
>> Your motorcycle battery was probably plain old lead acid.
>> Newer batteries are apples and oranges in chemistry compared to lead
>> acid and the rules are different depending on if they are NiCad, NiMH,
>> Li‑ion, etc.
>>
>>
>
> True.
> But...
> You still have to use them regularly to keep them healthy.
> And taking them below 50% charge will still shorten their lives.
>

I'm pretty sure this isn't true with all batteries.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

I have 2 green models...


Hitachi, I bought the 10v combo drill and impactor.
Love them for light duty work. The impactor is awesome. Truly a heavy
duty tool. The drill is very light duty, but great for driving light
screws.

For heavy drilling I have a Ryobi 18v.. I know some of you think that
sucks, but for the cheap price I paide $69 for the 18v and 2 lithium
batteries it's a way better deal than some of the name brands.

I recently saw a bunch of contractors using Ryobi because the battery
prices are totally reasonable. They said the Dewalts were way too
overpriced on batteries. I was surprised figuring that they wanted a
more solid tool. They were happy with the Ryobi.

On 5/22/2012 12:07 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 5/21/2012 8:54 PM, Tim Daneliuk wrote:
>> My beloved Makita 9V cordless drill is finally worn out. I think I got
>> my money's worth - 18 years of home improvement, furniture projects,
>> and general maintenance.
>>
>> So ... what shall I buy to replace it. I am looking at another
>> Makita or a DeWalt (both 18V Li).
>>
>> What is the Wreck-wisdom here?
>>
>>
>
> Well, Makita still builds a good drill/tool, Go with the green models.
>
> I have owned DeWalt, Makita, Panasonic, and Festool. Oh yeah I have a
> Bosch impactor that I have used about 3 times in the last 3 or so years.
>
>
> I am partial to the Festool but you are going to spend some money.
>
> Least favorite for me, Bosch and DeWalt.

On Tue, 22 May 2012 16:42:19 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Dave wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 May 2012 14:54:59 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>>> Unless, within the realm of things breaking before they should -
>>> they do. Then... that warranty becomes very valuable.
>>
>> Sure, in a perfect world, a warranty or a lifetime warranty if you
>> prefer, is certainly useful in the case of something breaking before
>> its time. But, all the tools I've every bought which includes drills,
>> have come with a substantial warranty to start. That's three years in
>> the case of my DeWalt drills. They're almost five years old now and
>> there's no hint of tool failure or battery dying anywhere. If a drill
>> dies on me at this point, I'll likely upgrade to a Li-Ion drill
>> because of the advantages to it. Or, in the case of battery, I'll
>> consider having it rebuilt.
>>
>
>That's fair Dave, but I have owned tools that have had value to me long past
>the 3 year warranty peiod, and I do not feel I need to buy a new one in
>three years, just because they made some incremental improvement. In the
>case of Rigid, if they upgrade the batteries, you end up with the upgraded
>battery. That has been my personal experience.
>
>> Either way, in my almost 30 years of woodworking experience when I
>> bought my first cordless drill, never have I had one fail on me
>> (drill or battery) prematurely.
>
>Well - that's pretty subjective. What do you define as "prematurely"? If
>you mean within the warranty period - that can be a legitimate definition,
>but it is not not what I expect out of a tool.
>
>
>>
>> That's what I'm trying to say. In my case anyway, a lifetime warranty
>> is wasted on me and I'd suggest on most others too.
>>
>
>Well - my experience with many brands of tools is different than yours then.
>I have had many batteries for example, die within the warranty period of the
>tool - only to find that batteries are not covered by the warranty. Why
>would you argue against a company that actually does warranty their
>batteries as well as the not-likely-to-be-encountered-failure in materials
>and workmanship?
>
>>
>> Answered above. But, just to give you an answer, by the time my first
>> battery started dying on me (Milwaukee brand, five or six years old),
>> they no longer made that type of battery because of advances in
>> battery technology. A lifetime warranty would have been useless.
>>
>
>And my experience with DeWalt was that the damned batteries crapped out well
>within the tool warranty period. Stuck - because the batteries were not
>covered under the warranty. And you consider that to be good?
>
>
>There is no one here - including those who think they are the peak of
>professional workmanship, who need to have the latest and greatest, most
>best tool on the market. If the damned tool is good - then it is good and
>it will serve. I don't even want to hear any more about how an expensive
>tool will save 3 minutes of work - that's just hogwash. If you feel you can
>justify buying new tools every couple of years, then god bless ya - I don't.
>I just will not succomb to that line of thinking. I've been working with
>too many tools that are more than 3 years old, to fall prey to that line of
>crap.
>
>
>>
>> I'd suggest it is true. We live in an instant gratification society
>> and the newer technologies are most definitely at the forefront of
>> that 'instant gratification'.
>>
>
>Then you need to get out into the real world Dave. Having worked at HD, I
>can tell you that what you say about people needing the newest and greatest
>and all that stuff is pure crap. Believe what you will, but people just do
>not buy that way. Surprise!
>
>
>>>> And for people who do woodworking professionally, like Karl
>>>> and Leon, the newer tools are a boon. The Domino and the Domino XL
>>>> are graphic examples of this.
>>>
>>> The very same arguments you expressed above could be applied to
>>> those tools
>>
>> Also answered above. But, these aren't cordless tools and they don't
>> have anything near approaching a lifetime warranty. I shouldn't have
>> used them as an example to bolster my original argument. However, they
>> *are* newer technology, so they do fit the criteria of a new degree of
>> usefulness and that's why people *will* buy them.
>
>What does cordless have to do with it? It's the concept.

But it depends, mostly I agree with you. I still have an old 9.6 volt
Makita that for light to medium duty is a joy to use, there 9.6 volt
sawsall would cut 1/2" emt which was nice working in a lift. Used the
little 3" saw to cut sono tubes off pole bases. Then we were doing a
lighting retrofit of the Kenworth plant in Renton, Wa. when I brought
the first 18v dewalt on the job site. Within 2 weeks everyone of the
journeyman electricians had one. That was back some years ago and
over time I've accumalted the sawsall, flashlight, trim saw, impact
drill and 90 degree drill. I don't work anymore but it's cheaper for
me to keep buying batteries, just have to search for deals. And those
old NiCads do put out a lot of work. Still have my hole hawg and
magnum but rarely go to them anymore. So think about what cordless
tools you want and what they offer and battery quality. The more you
can match up the pieces the easier it is. For me I'm content with
the Dewalt 18 volt for what I'm doing now.

Mike M

On 5/21/2012 11:29 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Mon, 21 May 2012 20:54:50 -0500, Tim Daneliuk
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> My beloved Makita 9V cordless drill is finally worn out. I think I got
>> my money's worth - 18 years of home improvement, furniture projects,
>> and general maintenance.
>>
>> So ... what shall I buy to replace it. I am looking at another
>> Makita or a DeWalt (both 18V Li).
>>
>> What is the Wreck-wisdom here?
>
> I loved my Bosch Impactor, I love my Makita lithium impactor, and I
> loved my old Ryobi 14.4v drill enough to buy an 18v model when the
> batteries finally died on the 14.4. Panasonic, Makita, Bosch, and
> Milwaukee are the top runners, though lots of guys here like the
> Ridgid drills, too.
>
> --

18 years is way good service, Larry.
Ya done good, troop.

I still have my 9v Ryobi, the battery pack had been rebuilt once and
has finally gone south again. I'll probably rebuild it again as the
drill motor itself is still perfectly good. (someday?)


But mostly I use the 12v Ryobi - which has had it's battery pack
rebuilt twice.

I have two batteries for each of them.
If I had another 12v battery I'd take the cells out and plug it into
a 12v gel cell (12AH) for longer lasting power.

Or plug it into the boat's 12v system and use that for power.

On Tue, 22 May 2012 16:42:19 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>Then you need to get out into the real world Dave. Having worked at HD, I
>can tell you that what you say about people needing the newest and greatest
>and all that stuff is pure crap. Believe what you will, but people just do
>not buy that way. Surprise!

Really? And you're telling me to get out in the real world? You may
have untold years of experience at Home Depot, but you're information
is woefully out of date. When *was* the last time you worked there
Mike?

Look at the teenagers these days. Look at all the people under 30
years of age. How many until millions in the US scrape by from month
to month trying to pay down their debt to their maxed out credit
cards? And, don't even consider trying to tell me they don't exist.
For them it's all about buying the latest and greatest and keeping up
with all their friends. They're constantly spurred onto greater debt
by advertising and the very society they live in. Do you really want
to tell me that stuff is crap???

Get your damned head out of the sand Mike. It's not the older
generation like us that have this problem, it's the younger ones who
are driving the market into interminable debt spurred on by this
instant gratification society of ours.

On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:40:08 -0700, Mike M
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 22 May 2012 14:47:55 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On 5/22/12 1:25 PM, John Shear wrote:
>>> Hmm, I just turned 50 and have never used a drill press and haven't been
>>> in a situation where I thought to myself "man, having a drill press sure
>>> would make my life easier". I do have a Jet Benchtop Mortiser because it
>>> was obvious how that would make my projects get done faster with better
>>> quality. So educate me on what makes a drill press a valuable thing to
>>> have (ie, what am I missing out on?).
>>>
>>> John S.
>>>
>>
>>I drill press is like any other bench version of a tool. You don't
>>"need" it to do anything you couldn't do with the handheld version, but
>>once you have one, you wondered how to lived without it.
>>
>>It speeds up a lot of processes. It's indispensable for repeatable
>>tasks. Drilling in round stock it a hundred times easier with a press.
>>Drill in metal without punching a starter dimple.
>>Now that I think about it, it does some things you can't do with a
>>handheld drill. You can drill right over a smaller hole to make it
>>bigger. You can use hole saws without a guide bit.... I have several
>>diamond saws that don't have center bits.
>>
>>A press also multitasks as a drum sander which comes in handy quite
>>often. Like someone else stated, even the cheap ones are really handy. I
>>got my Ryobi for 50 bucks on clearance and if it's not the best $50 I
>>ever spent, it's in the top 5. :-)

I bought the kit with duffel bag, 2 18v batteries, charger,
flashlight, circular saw, drill motor, and reciprocating saw for $124
on sale. The first one (sans recip saw and only 14.4v) was $99.


>Plus you don't have to tape a level to the drill. 8-)

Eek!

I love the dual levels on the Ryobi, especially if I have to tap that
hole I just drilled. The bull's eye level is great for that.

--
Progress is the product of human agency. Things get better because
we make them better. Things go wrong when we get too comfortable,
when we fail to take risks or seize opportunities.
-- Susan Rice

On Tue, 22 May 2012 14:54:59 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>Unless, within the realm of things breaking before they should - they do.
>Then... that warranty becomes very valuable.

Sure, in a perfect world, a warranty or a lifetime warranty if you
prefer, is certainly useful in the case of something breaking before
its time. But, all the tools I've every bought which includes drills,
have come with a substantial warranty to start. That's three years in
the case of my DeWalt drills. They're almost five years old now and
there's no hint of tool failure or battery dying anywhere. If a drill
dies on me at this point, I'll likely upgrade to a Li-Ion drill
because of the advantages to it. Or, in the case of battery, I'll
consider having it rebuilt.

Either way, in my almost 30 years of woodworking experience when I
bought my first cordless drill, never have I had one fail on me
(drill or battery) prematurely. Whenever I've gone to something new,
it's been because of a desire for a newer capability/technology tool.

That's what I'm trying to say. In my case anyway, a lifetime warranty
is wasted on me and I'd suggest on most others too.

>So what - if your battery fails, do you want to buy a new one, or get a free
>one under warranty?

Answered above. But, just to give you an answer, by the time my first
battery started dying on me (Milwaukee brand, five or six years old),
they no longer made that type of battery because of advances in
battery technology. A lifetime warranty would have been useless.

>> Agreed, one doesn't have to go for the latest technology, but most
>> people do.
>
>Maybe... but not so sure this is really true.

I'd suggest it is true. We live in an instant gratification society
and the newer technologies are most definitely at the forefront of
that 'instant gratification'.

>> And for people who do woodworking professionally, like Karl
>> and Leon, the newer tools are a boon. The Domino and the Domino XL are
>> graphic examples of this.
>
>The very same arguments you expressed above could be applied to those tools

Also answered above. But, these aren't cordless tools and they don't
have anything near approaching a lifetime warranty. I shouldn't have
used them as an example to bolster my original argument. However, they
*are* newer technology, so they do fit the criteria of a new degree of
usefulness and that's why people *will* buy them.

On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:27:45 -0700, Mike M
> For me I'm content with
>the Dewalt 18 volt for what I'm doing now

Maybe I'm guessing wrongly, but since you've had it awhile, I'm
assuming it uses an XRP battery. Your arm ever get tired holding up
that drill Mike? Mine does with it's XRP battery and I can pretty much
guarantee you with thirty years of pushing my manual wheelchair
around, my arms are NOT weak.

An so, the next question is have you looked at one of the new DeWalt
20v Li-Ion drills with battery? If so, the first thing you would have
noticed is how much smaller the battery is and how much lighter the
drill is. If you did notice, did you say to yourself how nice it might
be to have one of those instead? I sure did.

Possibly not for the home owner who might use it once a week, but it
sure would make a big difference for someone using a drill like that a
few times every day. And since I'm into woodworking, even though I
don't do it professionally, I frequently use my DeWalt drill a number
of times every day.

On 5/22/2012 10:07 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:40:08 -0700, Mike M
>> Plus you don't have to tape a level to the drill. 8-)
>
> Or find out after you've drilled your stock, that the level slipped or
> you didn't tape it properly in the first place. 8-)

I was never a fan of the level in the drill, IIRC an old DeWalt had a
level in it.
When has any thing you drilled ever been perfectly level or plum? ;~)
For me a level on a drill is like using a level to bring your TS blade
back to 90 degrees.

On 5/23/2012 7:19 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 5/22/2012 2:24 PM, Dave wrote:
>> On Tue, 22 May 2012 14:54:59 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>>> Unless, within the realm of things breaking before they should - they
>>> do.
>>> Then... that warranty becomes very valuable.
>>
>> Sure, in a perfect world, a warranty or a lifetime warranty if you
>> prefer, is certainly useful in the case of something breaking before
>> its time. But, all the tools I've every bought which includes drills,
>> have come with a substantial warranty to start. That's three years in
>> the case of my DeWalt drills. They're almost five years old now and
>> there's no hint of tool failure or battery dying anywhere. If a drill
>> dies on me at this point, I'll likely upgrade to a Li-Ion drill
>> because of the advantages to it. Or, in the case of battery, I'll
>> consider having it rebuilt.
>>
>> Either way, in my almost 30 years of woodworking experience when I
>> bought my first cordless drill, never have I had one fail on me
>> (drill or battery) prematurely. Whenever I've gone to something new,
>> it's been because of a desire for a newer capability/technology tool.
>
> WOW! I have owned 9 different cordless drills/driver/impacts and have
> bought replacements batteries for all, except for one my first DeWalt as
> a whole new drill with two batteries was $99 and two new batteries was
> more expensive. And I have not yet bought replacements for my Festool
> yet or the Bosch impactor that I rarely use.
> What do you do to make them last? ;~)
>
>
>

To make them last, you just use them regularly.

On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:40:08 -0700, Mike M
>Plus you don't have to tape a level to the drill. 8-)

Or find out after you've drilled your stock, that the level slipped or
you didn't tape it properly in the first place. 8-)

On 05/23/2012 06:23 PM, Steve B wrote:
> "Dave"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Wed, 23 May 2012 07:19:43 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> What do you do to make them last? ;~)
>>
>> Easy answer. I don't use them as much as you do. As a habit, I run a
>> battery right down and then recharge it fully before I use it again.
>> That habit is not as necessary these days as it was in the past, but
>> it has become my habit anyway.
>
> I'll put a slip tie on mine, and let it run.
>
> Steve
>
>

Actually, with Li this is a bad idea. NiCads required this full
discharge cycle but I believe this actually decreases Li life ...
or so I've read.

--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk [email protected]
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/

On 5/24/2012 8:43 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 5/24/2012 8:28 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>
>> I could stop the drill 3/4 into the drive and start up slowly
>> to finish driving in the screw as a slow pace, if I wanted. I have lots
>> or start up torque so pulling the trigger further does not deliver more
>> torque, only speed.
>
> Sounds like a wet dream! ;)
>
> > Additionally the clutch on the Festool is electronic
> > which also regulates the top speed when in any given clutch setting.
> > When the desire torque setting is reached the drill shuts down and
> > beeps. Release the trigger and pull again to resume.
>
> What will that thang do in the 1/4 mile?
>
> If I hadn't already bought a Makita 18v combo a year back ...
>

I know and have more than once regretted having not bought the Festool
earlier if not for the single reason to have advised you differently. I
know I highly recommended the Makita and I still believe it to be a
great tool, but you know Festool...

My only real concern about Li-Ion batteries so far is having them
rebuilt. I don't know of anyone that does that yet, I know that
PrimeCell does not and they address that fact on their site.

On 23 May 2012 20:35:43 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

>"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>
>>
>> I love mine, and wish all my drills had one. I don't know why they
>> didn't put it on sooner. I will not buy another without it. My two
>> drill/impact set came with the impact with a light, and the drill not.
>> Wonder why. I love that light.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>
>The only thing missing from my jigsaw is a light. I miss it just about
>every time I turn on the tool, I've been spoiled by the drill/drivers that
>have them.

Those are nice, aren't they?

Why not grab a freebie 9-LED flashlight from HF and a spring steel
clip, drill a hole in the sheet metal (harder in cast iron ;) cover on
the arm, and position it? It should last years between battery
changes, and it will serve as an emergency lighting source during a
blackout. They're plenty bright for this use.

If you can't drill through it, perhaps you could zip-tie it to the
stationary arm section.

--
When a quiet man is moved to passion, it seems the very earth will shake.
-- Stephanie Barron
(Something for the Powers That Be to remember, eh?)

On Wed, 23 May 2012 08:54:15 -0500, John Shear <[email protected]>
>I am interested in trying to make wooden hinges that I've seen in a
>couple of places lately. I wondered how they drill out for the hinge
>pin. I guess that's a very good reason for drill press, but I could
>come up with a jig for that too.

Here you go. Make sure you scroll over to the five minute mark.
http://www.incra.com/product_rtf_ibox.html

On Tue, 22 May 2012 14:47:55 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 5/22/12 1:25 PM, John Shear wrote:
>> Hmm, I just turned 50 and have never used a drill press and haven't been
>> in a situation where I thought to myself "man, having a drill press sure
>> would make my life easier". I do have a Jet Benchtop Mortiser because it
>> was obvious how that would make my projects get done faster with better
>> quality. So educate me on what makes a drill press a valuable thing to
>> have (ie, what am I missing out on?).
>>
>> John S.
>>
>
>I drill press is like any other bench version of a tool. You don't
>"need" it to do anything you couldn't do with the handheld version, but
>once you have one, you wondered how to lived without it.
>
>It speeds up a lot of processes. It's indispensable for repeatable
>tasks. Drilling in round stock it a hundred times easier with a press.
>Drill in metal without punching a starter dimple.
>Now that I think about it, it does some things you can't do with a
>handheld drill. You can drill right over a smaller hole to make it
>bigger. You can use hole saws without a guide bit.... I have several
>diamond saws that don't have center bits.
>
>A press also multitasks as a drum sander which comes in handy quite
>often. Like someone else stated, even the cheap ones are really handy. I
>got my Ryobi for 50 bucks on clearance and if it's not the best $50 I
>ever spent, it's in the top 5. :-)

Plus you don't have to tape a level to the drill. 8-)
Mike M

On Mon, 21 May 2012 20:54:50 -0500, Tim Daneliuk
<[email protected]> wrote:

>My beloved Makita 9V cordless drill is finally worn out. I think I got
>my money's worth - 18 years of home improvement, furniture projects,
>and general maintenance.
>
>So ... what shall I buy to replace it. I am looking at another
>Makita or a DeWalt (both 18V Li).
>
>What is the Wreck-wisdom here?

I loved my Bosch Impactor, I love my Makita lithium impactor, and I
loved my old Ryobi 14.4v drill enough to buy an 18v model when the
batteries finally died on the 14.4. Panasonic, Makita, Bosch, and
Milwaukee are the top runners, though lots of guys here like the
Ridgid drills, too.

--
Progress is the product of human agency. Things get better because
we make them better. Things go wrong when we get too comfortable,
when we fail to take risks or seize opportunities.
-- Susan Rice

On 5/24/2012 8:28 AM, Leon wrote:


> I could stop the drill 3/4 into the drive and start up slowly
> to finish driving in the screw as a slow pace, if I wanted. I have lots
> or start up torque so pulling the trigger further does not deliver more
> torque, only speed.

Sounds like a wet dream! ;)

> Additionally the clutch on the Festool is electronic
> which also regulates the top speed when in any given clutch setting.
> When the desire torque setting is reached the drill shuts down and
> beeps. Release the trigger and pull again to resume.

What will that thang do in the 1/4 mile?

If I hadn't already bought a Makita 18v combo a year back ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Exactly why I bought the Hitachi, great little drill for smaller tasks.

And my 18v Ryobi LiOn is lighter than my previous drill.
So I have the best of all worlds.

No arm and leg lost to buy either.
BTW My Ryobi also locks the motor when off so you can easily tighten the
chuck with one hand. You can crank down pretty good.

What I like about the Hitachi is the battery allows you to sit the tool
down standing up. Most of the 10V and 12V LiOn do not have that feature.

On 5/22/2012 11:05 PM, Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 22 May 2012 17:27:45 -0700, Mike M
>> For me I'm content with
>> the Dewalt 18 volt for what I'm doing now
>
> Maybe I'm guessing wrongly, but since you've had it awhile, I'm
> assuming it uses an XRP battery. Your arm ever get tired holding up
> that drill Mike? Mine does with it's XRP battery and I can pretty much
> guarantee you with thirty years of pushing my manual wheelchair
> around, my arms are NOT weak.
>
> An so, the next question is have you looked at one of the new DeWalt
> 20v Li-Ion drills with battery? If so, the first thing you would have
> noticed is how much smaller the battery is and how much lighter the
> drill is. If you did notice, did you say to yourself how nice it might
> be to have one of those instead? I sure did.
>
> Possibly not for the home owner who might use it once a week, but it
> sure would make a big difference for someone using a drill like that a
> few times every day. And since I'm into woodworking, even though I
> don't do it professionally, I frequently use my DeWalt drill a number
> of times every day.

On 5/23/2012 9:49 AM, Richard wrote:
> On 5/23/2012 7:19 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 5/22/2012 2:24 PM, Dave wrote:
>>> On Tue, 22 May 2012 14:54:59 -0400, "Mike Marlow"
>>>> Unless, within the realm of things breaking before they should - they
>>>> do.
>>>> Then... that warranty becomes very valuable.
>>>
>>> Sure, in a perfect world, a warranty or a lifetime warranty if you
>>> prefer, is certainly useful in the case of something breaking before
>>> its time. But, all the tools I've every bought which includes drills,
>>> have come with a substantial warranty to start. That's three years in
>>> the case of my DeWalt drills. They're almost five years old now and
>>> there's no hint of tool failure or battery dying anywhere. If a drill
>>> dies on me at this point, I'll likely upgrade to a Li-Ion drill
>>> because of the advantages to it. Or, in the case of battery, I'll
>>> consider having it rebuilt.
>>>
>>> Either way, in my almost 30 years of woodworking experience when I
>>> bought my first cordless drill, never have I had one fail on me
>>> (drill or battery) prematurely. Whenever I've gone to something new,
>>> it's been because of a desire for a newer capability/technology tool.
>>
>> WOW! I have owned 9 different cordless drills/driver/impacts and have
>> bought replacements batteries for all, except for one my first DeWalt as
>> a whole new drill with two batteries was $99 and two new batteries was
>> more expensive. And I have not yet bought replacements for my Festool
>> yet or the Bosch impactor that I rarely use.
>> What do you do to make them last? ;~)
>>
>>
>>
>
> To make them last, you just use them regularly.

Which I do, I get 4~6 years out of them but they do poop out as they are
only going to take so many discharge and recharge cycles and they do
have a shelf life.

On 5/23/2012 9:55 AM, tiredofspam wrote:
> But don't you find the impact would drive with less effort, prevent cam
> out too? I prefer my 12v impact over the 18v drill for heavier work. It
> has yet to let me down. I could do decks with this 12v impact its that
> good.
>>
>> Another thing to consider with the latest technology, about 7~8 years
>> ago I bought a 12 volt Makita drill and impact drive. The impact pretty
>> much holds it's won with any voltage drill including many corded ones as
>> far a power goes. With my next voltage step up Festool 15.x drill I have
>> not yet used my impact driver. I am thinking the brushless motors may be
>> offering more than just less things to go wrong. I never would have
>> drilled pocket holes with out a corded drill, now I do. 3" screws go in
>> as fast now as with the impact.


The impact was less likely to give trouble when driving or removing
compared to my same brand Makita drill and most any outer drill for that
matter. I know exactly what you are talking about. I have had my
impact for 7+ years and have used it almost exclusively.

BUT now with the Festool T15-3 drill I see no difference in most all of
my drilling/driving needs. As I mentioned in another post I was driving
3" star/torx drive screws completely buried into 2x4 stock, joining 2x4
to 2x4. I could stop 3/4" shy of flush with the surface and then start
again only pulling the trigger a little bit and finish driving at a slow
controlled pace. I got no caming out because of the slower higher torque
speed that I was using and the better head screws..
And it is a LOT quieter. ;~)