Things to come?

On Mar 23, 6:10 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:

> The tool is likely very heavy. Maybe because of the 10,000 pound chain
> attached to the cement block guarded by a pair of 100 pound
> dobermans..... or my lunch bucket.
> That saw just yells : "STEAL MEEEE!!!!"

For shop workers, that isn't much of a consideration.

For those who have not worked on site for a few weeks at a time, you
cannot imagine how hard it is to keep an eye on everything, everybody,
and all they are doing on a constant basis.

We have had tools stolen from job sites I have worked on (and on mine)
where the thieves weren't even working on the project. Driving by,
they saw "targets of opportunity" and took a chance.

Sometimes they case the job by asking if anyone is hiring. Sometimes
they act like they are selling something and indeed it may be
something they just stole somewhere else. And sometimes, they just
drive by and get lucky.

I can't imagine what it would be like to walk around a corner to nail
up piece of crown, be intercepted by the client that has to ask you a
quick question about something on the other side of the project, and
return a few short minutes later to an empty tool stand where your
$1500 Festool (or any other brand) saw used to sit.

I keep a hardened chain with a security combination lock in the truck
at all times, but you can't lock up everything.

Robert
(whose ass is still smarting from the loss of his 4 hp compressor,
taken from a secured warehouse after having the chain cut in order to
remove it during business hours)

<[email protected]> wrote:

> We have had tools stolen from job sites I have worked on (and on mine)
> where the thieves weren't even working on the project.

Still remember my dad telling me about one of his lodge brothers who worked
construction and drove a Model "A" roadster with the top down during the
summer.

This was in the 30's, during the depression, when they were building the
grandstand at the county fairgrounds.

The guy would park in the track infield and leave his tools in plain sight.

Finally somebody decided to gather some of those tools.

Touched the car and got knocked on his ass by 20,000 volts.

Seems the guy knew a little bit about electricity.

He had hooked up an ignition coil, charged by the battery, and discharged
when somebody touched the frame completing the circuit to ground.

As far as I know, never did have anything stolen.

Lew

"Jim Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> It's retailing for something like $1600. It would have to be capable of
a
> >> what's unique about the Kapex KS 120? It sure can't be just dust

> > $1600 where did you get that info? Although after looking at the videos
I
> > could see how it would be in that range considering the price
comparisons
> > to other tools. I was thinking I had read that it would be under $1000.

Do a search for the model name. Every link I came across was UK based and
had the saw listing for about £800 English Pounds. That's $1600 Canadian and
almost the same in US funds.

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:27:18 GMT, FrozenNorth <[email protected]> wrote:

<snip>
>
>> Just curious, does that mean if someone doesn't use Festool to make his
>> living, a customer should keep on looking?
>
>If savings can be passed on to the customer...

If savings can be passed on, will the customer pay more because you use good
quality/expensive tools?

My guess is the customer doesn't care if you use a million dollars worth of
tools or you use a sharp stick and a rock, as long as the end result and price
are what they want..


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

Leon took a can of maroon spray paint on March 23, 2008 04:02 pm and wrote
the following:

> Often it has been discussed how to best collect dust created by a SCMS or
> CMS. The answer has almost always been, it cannot be done with great
> results. Many have shown devised setups that seem to work well but is it
> also reported that regardless of how well these modifications work there
> is
> still a pretty good mess to clean up. On top of that, the collector is
> most often stationary or part of a stationary stand.
> Changing direction for a bit here it has often been mentioned the
> seemingly excessive expense of certain brand tools and how the expense
> would prevent a
> person from ever considering that brand. As true with anything the
> initial
> cost of purchasing a tool will always be out of someone's price range.
> At one time PC products were a stretch for me, fortunately I have over
> come that obstacle.
> Back on topic, I was watching "Ask" This Old House today and noticed Tommy
> using a new tool. In recent months Tommy has been using a lot of new
> tools
> and not too coincidentally they are of the same brand. Is he or Ask TOH
> using a new sponsor? I have not seen credits going to this company nor
> does
> a search of this company on the "Ask" TOH web site turn up any results.
> Of all the wood working shows and talented professionals on these type
> shows I have never heard any discouraging words that would indicate that
> he does not carry the respect of most any wood worker.
> A viewer asked "Ask" TOH to help him out with crown moldings in his
> kitchen. The homeowner had been able to do most every thing himself but
> the crown
> moldings in a seemingly complicated area had him baffled. Tommy stepped
> in and showed how to cut crown molding for irregular angled corners with a
> SCMS. No coping, all cuts were done on the SCMS, right there inside the
> house. It took me a few minutes to realize that there was not a cloud of
> saw dust in side the homeowners house. For that matter I backed the video
> up and watched the cuts being made and again did not notice any saw dust
> escaping. Then I saw a black hose with green stripes in it. Hum the
> mostly
> black SCMS had a few green spots on it as well. Backing up again and
> forwarding frame by frame revealed the Festool name on the SCMS motor
> housing. The saw is not available for sale in the US yet so I would be
> sure that the saw was probably donated but it was certainly not promoted
> in the
> show or web site. Surely this is going to be another expensive product
> from Festool and many are not going to be able to justify the price of
> this
> machine. For those that make a living using their wood working tools I
> can see how this saw would be a big benefit when working inside a
> customers home and not having to set up shop in the rain or snow so many
> yards away from
> the project. Imagine not having to put up dust screens or go in and out
> side the home time after time to saw or sand pieces on the project.
> Imagine not tracking saw dust all over the house on the way outside to
> make another
> cut. Imagine this 2 hour crown molding job only taking 20 minutes because
> you spend your time working and not cleaning up, walking in and out side
> time after time for a 10 second cut.

Now, imagine your educated customers asking, do you use Festool?

No

Next.....

--
Lits Slut #9
Life would be so much easier if we could just look at the source code.

"tiredofspam" <nospam.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Was this the saw?
> http://www.festool.net/mediandoweb/index.cfm?sLanguage=English&ID_O_TREE_GROUP=5170&PARENT=1763&AKTIVPROD=1
> Seems that it is available in Germany.
> Click on the magnifier.


That is probably it however the view I always saw was from the right side of
the saw.

I had to cut a large archway to connect the new annex of my wife's
bookstore (she was able to rent the next-door space to almost double the
store's floor space). The side on the new space was no sweat to excavate
because it was unoccupied so I did all that work, paint, etc and tidied
up before cutting through the from the bookstore side.

My friend, loyal bookstore customer and boat-builder, Al, brought his
Festool cart full of tools and we managed to cut through (the wall was
plywood) *from the bookstore side* without covering any bookshelves at
all. No tarps. No dust. A bit of shop-vacuuming and we were cleaned up.
I was amazed at how well it went. And all the Festool guides and gizmos
really did their jobs.

Just my limited experience with how much time and effort Festool saved
us on this one demanding job.


Leon wrote:
> Backing up again and
> forwarding frame by frame revealed the Festool name on the SCMS motor
> housing. The saw is not available for sale in the US yet so I would be sure
> that the saw was probably donated but it was certainly not promoted in the
> show or web site. Surely this is going to be another expensive product from
> Festool and many are not going to be able to justify the price of this
> machine. For those that make a living using their wood working tools I can
> see how this saw would be a big benefit when working inside a customers home
> and not having to set up shop in the rain or snow so many yards away from
> the project. Imagine not having to put up dust screens or go in and out
> side the home time after time to saw or sand pieces on the project. Imagine
> not tracking saw dust all over the house on the way outside to make another
> cut. Imagine this 2 hour crown molding job only taking 20 minutes because
> you spend your time working and not cleaning up, walking in and out side
> time after time for a 10 second cut.
>
>
>


--
Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS www.hocktools.com

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> I think that idf a customer recognised the Festool brand he just might
> do the work himself. ;~)
>

*snip*

Well, no. A contractor should know codes and be familiar with the permit
process, so a wood worker would hire the contractor for this extra
knowledge. To watch Norm and David Marks, the contractor builds the
house and they build furniture for the house. If the contractor's off by
1/16", in most places it doesn't matter. If Norm or David's off by that
much, it makes a big difference in fit and finish of the piece.

Puckdropper
--
You can only do so much with caulk, cardboard, and duct tape.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:37:34 GMT, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Although I can afford a few of those nice Festool toys, I really can't
>> justify the price for a casual ww'er. But I'm going to watch again for
>> that episode, and start taking bets on the under/over price of a Festool
>> SCMS.... Mark
>>
>
>Yeah, I can afford the Festool line also but the SCMS probably would not
>find itself in my shop as I have a 12" Delta CMS that I quit using in the
>shop about 7 years ago. Once I upgraded to a cabinet saw I literally quit
>using the CMS. If I have an outside job I pull the CMS out but that does
>not happen very often. It has been about a year since I have used it. IIRC
>I read an article by one of the WW magazines and a group visited the Festool
>factory and the saw was going to be under but closer to $1k than most any
>other brand.

WOW.. I'm glad I'm an amateur!
My TS and band saw combined were about $1,000 and I thought that $200 on sale
for the Craftsman CSM was a bit high....

Then again, I just paid $2,500 for a lathe that I didn't really need... ;~]


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 18:15:20 -0500, "mark" <[email protected]> wrote:

>What is your opinion if a contractor shows up with a load of Festools? Is
>he a good craftsman, or is he relying on his tools to make up for a lack of
>skills??? IMO, at least someone who invests that much money into his
>livelihood, probably isn't a fly-by-night
> rip-off artist. But some of my friends also think this is just the same as
>if he were to drive up in a new Mercedes. Maybe a little bit of a
>showboat.....
>

I gotta disagree here, Mark...
I hear other turners saying that a customer expects uniform wall thickness,
proportional bottom thickness, etc...
In my experience, that's bull shit.. the BUYER wants something that they like
the look and feel of and couldn't care less what you made it with..
The turner looking at my stuff is doing just that, LOOKING, not buying...

IMO, if someone knows more about tool brands than a contractor's reputation and
work, they're either going to do it themselves or be really high maintenance
clients...

If anything, the average client out there is so barraged with ads and
commercials that they think Craftsman is top quality and have NEVER seen an ad
for Festool...
As to showboating, the same applies... If you're not a woodworker, do you know
one brand from another or which is the most expensive?
I've been making saw dust and shavings for maybe 45 years and had never heard of
Festool until I subscribed to this group..
IMO, smart companies direct marketing to the most potential buyers, and that
means unless you go to tool stores besides the borg or sears, you'll never hear
of the more quality/expensive brands...

Sort of like your very high end cars... you don't see commercials for them
between tv shows...



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:26:43 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Leuf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 15:02:18 -0500, "Leon"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> And yes, Tommy can't go 5 minutes without breaking out a Festool toy.
>> It's the only time he actually gets his hands dirty anymore. I know
>> PBS has some rules about advertising so you aren't going to hear
>> anything actually spoken about it, but gone are the days when they
>> taped over all the manufacturers names.
>
>
>I am not sure what the restrictions on PBS would be as Delta and Porter
>Cable, Miniwax, Vermont American, GMC etc. open TOH and NYW always open the
>show in Houston.
>Additionally PBS or not, the This Old House web site does not mention
>Festool but mentions Craftsman and other brand tools.
>
>IIRC the restrictions that got Bob in trouble was him being paid for ads out
>side of TOH, working for Sears.

They have time for ads at the beginning and end and that is all they
are allowed, they can't do anything in the actual program is my
understanding. When Norm has a project using specific hardware note
he doesn't tell you where to get it, but it's on the plans. They
introduced the Sawstop contractor saw version on Ask TOS, but I don't
think they ever said Sawstop.

So Festool are being sneaky about it. And by not also having ads it
looks more like hey, Tommy is just using Festool because it's so
awesome.


-Leuf

mark took a can of maroon spray paint on March 23, 2008 04:55 pm and wrote
the following:

>
> "FrozenNorth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Leon took a can of maroon spray paint on March 23, 2008 04:02 pm and
>> wrote the following:
>>
>>> Often it has been discussed how to best collect dust created by a SCMS
>>> or
>>> CMS. The answer has almost always been, it cannot be done with great
>>> results. Many have shown devised setups that seem to work well but is
>>> it
>>> also reported that regardless of how well these modifications work
>>> there is
>>> still a pretty good mess to clean up. On top of that, the collector is
>>> most often stationary or part of a stationary stand.
>>> Changing direction for a bit here it has often been mentioned the
>>> seemingly excessive expense of certain brand tools and how the expense
>>> would prevent a
>>> person from ever considering that brand. As true with anything the
>>> initial
>>> cost of purchasing a tool will always be out of someone's price range.
>>> At one time PC products were a stretch for me, fortunately I have over
>>> come that obstacle.
>>> Back on topic, I was watching "Ask" This Old House today and noticed
>>> Tommy
>>> using a new tool. In recent months Tommy has been using a lot of new
>>> tools
>>> and not too coincidentally they are of the same brand. Is he or Ask TOH
>>> using a new sponsor? I have not seen credits going to this company nor
>>> does
>>> a search of this company on the "Ask" TOH web site turn up any results.
>>> Of all the wood working shows and talented professionals on these type
>>> shows I have never heard any discouraging words that would indicate that
>>> he does not carry the respect of most any wood worker.
>>> A viewer asked "Ask" TOH to help him out with crown moldings in his
>>> kitchen. The homeowner had been able to do most every thing himself but
>>> the crown
>>> moldings in a seemingly complicated area had him baffled. Tommy stepped
>>> in and showed how to cut crown molding for irregular angled corners with
>>> a
>>> SCMS. No coping, all cuts were done on the SCMS, right there inside the
>>> house. It took me a few minutes to realize that there was not a cloud
>>> of
>>> saw dust in side the homeowners house. For that matter I backed the
>>> video
>>> up and watched the cuts being made and again did not notice any saw dust
>>> escaping. Then I saw a black hose with green stripes in it. Hum the
>>> mostly
>>> black SCMS had a few green spots on it as well. Backing up again and
>>> forwarding frame by frame revealed the Festool name on the SCMS motor
>>> housing. The saw is not available for sale in the US yet so I would be
>>> sure that the saw was probably donated but it was certainly not promoted
>>> in the
>>> show or web site. Surely this is going to be another expensive product
>>> from Festool and many are not going to be able to justify the price of
>>> this
>>> machine. For those that make a living using their wood working tools I
>>> can see how this saw would be a big benefit when working inside a
>>> customers home and not having to set up shop in the rain or snow so many
>>> yards away from
>>> the project. Imagine not having to put up dust screens or go in and out
>>> side the home time after time to saw or sand pieces on the project.
>>> Imagine not tracking saw dust all over the house on the way outside to
>>> make another
>>> cut. Imagine this 2 hour crown molding job only taking 20 minutes
>>> because
>>> you spend your time working and not cleaning up, walking in and out side
>>> time after time for a 10 second cut.
>>
>> Now, imagine your educated customers asking, do you use Festool?
>>
>> No
>>
>> Next.....
>>

> Just curious, does that mean if someone doesn't use Festool to make his
> living, a customer should keep on looking?

If savings can be passed on to the customer...
--
Lits Slut #9
Life would be so much easier if we could just look at the source code.

"mark" wrote

> What is your opinion if a contractor shows up with a load of Festools? Is
> he a good craftsman, or is he relying on his tools to make up for a lack
of
> skills???

Other than that cheesy Craftsman compucarve whatever, please tell me where
can I buy a tool that will make up for my "lack of skills"?

... and be quick about it, I'm working under a deadline here ... getting
older by the minute. :)


--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 3/8/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On Mar 24, 12:45 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I probably custom fitted 50 pieces of trim in that kitchen and with each piece
> it meant a trip out to the driveway. If I did that every day the $1600
> would be justified.

I think you summed it all up with that. No one doubts that the
quality of the Festool implements are there, but the question is if
one will get the value out of them considering their prices.

When I do a remodel, the house is pretty well torn up and we have dust
barriers in place, and my portable dust collector running full time in
the room we are doing the most damage to. My MS saw is as close as I
can get it in the close quarters of a finished house, which may
actually mean a patio or deck.

If the house isn't finished or occupied, who cares where the dust
goes? After all, the project will be swept as needed and
professionally cleaned at the end anyway.

I can see it being very practical if used like you are saying or as in
Ron's example and in several other instances. In that respect, I am
sure that there will be those that find the Festool saw
indispensable. But for the rest of us.... guess we'll get to read
about it here.

Robert

On Mar 24, 6:58 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:

> 6) ALL OF THE ABOVE

LMAO ... big time!

Can you imagine the holy grail of all tools, one so perfect that it
actually hit #6?

Spending big money on big tools without the questions.

I think your list accurately reflects today's buying guide. But
remember when you just went out and bought the BEST tools you could
afford, knowing they would perform well and last for years?

I haven't used that criteria for years. Now I look for the best tool,
then see how the numbers work for the type of work it will be doing.

Robert

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 00:42:55 GMT, "Mike Richardson"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:37:34 GMT, "Leon" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>
>> Then again, I just paid $2,500 for a lathe that I didn't really need...
>> ;~]
>>
>>
>> mac
>>
>
>
>Heheh - now thats a boat floater!
>;)
Yeah.. that's almost as much as I made last year selling my stuff...
not exactly a good investment, but it sure is fun.. ;~)


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"Jim Hall" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I noticed the saw too .. but it seemed underpowered and bogged down when
>cutting.. That's what caught my attention..


The saw is variable speed and perhaps it was set too slow. Either way I
provided a link to several video's of the saw in use. One video appears to
be cutting a 3x10, full depth of the blade.

"mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...



> What is your opinion if a contractor shows up with a load of Festools? Is
> he a good craftsman, or is he relying on his tools to make up for a lack
> of skills??? IMO, at least someone who invests that much money into his
> livelihood, probably isn't a fly-by-night

I think that idf a customer recognised the Festool brand he just might do
the work himself. ;~)



> rip-off artist. But some of my friends also think this is just the same as
> if he were to drive up in a new Mercedes. Maybe a little bit of a
> showboat.....

If you saw Festool in the movies, like in a James Bond film, anyone might be
impressed by Festool.

I noticed the saw too .. but it seemed underpowered and bogged down when
cutting.. That's what caught my attention..

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Often it has been discussed how to best collect dust created by a SCMS or
> CMS. The answer has almost always been, it cannot be done with great
> results. Many have shown devised setups that seem to work well but is it
> also reported that regardless of how well these modifications work there
> is still a pretty good mess to clean up. On top of that, the collector is
> most often stationary or part of a stationary stand.
> Changing direction for a bit here it has often been mentioned the
> seemingly excessive expense of certain brand tools and how the expense
> would prevent a person from ever considering that brand. As true with
> anything the initial cost of purchasing a tool will always be out of
> someone's price range. At one time PC products were a stretch for me,
> fortunately I have over come that obstacle.
> Back on topic, I was watching "Ask" This Old House today and noticed Tommy
> using a new tool. In recent months Tommy has been using a lot of new
> tools and not too coincidentally they are of the same brand. Is he or Ask
> TOH using a new sponsor? I have not seen credits going to this company
> nor does a search of this company on the "Ask" TOH web site turn up any
> results. Of all the wood working shows and talented professionals on
> these type shows I have never heard any discouraging words that would
> indicate that he does not carry the respect of most any wood worker.
> A viewer asked "Ask" TOH to help him out with crown moldings in his
> kitchen. The homeowner had been able to do most every thing himself but
> the crown moldings in a seemingly complicated area had him baffled. Tommy
> stepped in and showed how to cut crown molding for irregular angled
> corners with a SCMS. No coping, all cuts were done on the SCMS, right
> there inside the house. It took me a few minutes to realize that there
> was not a cloud of saw dust in side the homeowners house. For that matter
> I backed the video up and watched the cuts being made and again did not
> notice any saw dust escaping. Then I saw a black hose with green stripes
> in it. Hum the mostly black SCMS had a few green spots on it as well.
> Backing up again and forwarding frame by frame revealed the Festool name
> on the SCMS motor housing. The saw is not available for sale in the US
> yet so I would be sure that the saw was probably donated but it was
> certainly not promoted in the show or web site. Surely this is going to
> be another expensive product from Festool and many are not going to be
> able to justify the price of this machine. For those that make a living
> using their wood working tools I can see how this saw would be a big
> benefit when working inside a customers home and not having to set up shop
> in the rain or snow so many yards away from the project. Imagine not
> having to put up dust screens or go in and out side the home time after
> time to saw or sand pieces on the project. Imagine not tracking saw dust
> all over the house on the way outside to make another cut. Imagine this 2
> hour crown molding job only taking 20 minutes because you spend your time
> working and not cleaning up, walking in and out side time after time for a
> 10 second cut.
>
>
>

"Leuf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> They have time for ads at the beginning and end and that is all they
> are allowed, they can't do anything in the actual program is my
> understanding. When Norm has a project using specific hardware note
> he doesn't tell you where to get it, but it's on the plans. They
> introduced the Sawstop contractor saw version on Ask TOS, but I don't
> think they ever said Sawstop.

You have a point there.


>
> So Festool are being sneaky about it. And by not also having ads it
> looks more like hey, Tommy is just using Festool because it's so
> awesome.
>

But, that is a true statement.

"Leuf" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 15:02:18 -0500, "Leon"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> And yes, Tommy can't go 5 minutes without breaking out a Festool toy.
> It's the only time he actually gets his hands dirty anymore. I know
> PBS has some rules about advertising so you aren't going to hear
> anything actually spoken about it, but gone are the days when they
> taped over all the manufacturers names.


I am not sure what the restrictions on PBS would be as Delta and Porter
Cable, Miniwax, Vermont American, GMC etc. open TOH and NYW always open the
show in Houston.
Additionally PBS or not, the This Old House web site does not mention
Festool but mentions Craftsman and other brand tools.

IIRC the restrictions that got Bob in trouble was him being paid for ads out
side of TOH, working for Sears.

"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 00:42:55 GMT, "Mike Richardson"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:37:34 GMT, "Leon" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> Then again, I just paid $2,500 for a lathe that I didn't really need...
>>> ;~]
>>
>>Heheh - now thats a boat floater!
>>;)
> Yeah.. that's almost as much as I made last year selling my stuff...
> not exactly a good investment, but it sure is fun.. ;~)
>

Yeah but, if you are turning on a regular basis, it has got to be much nicer
on the more expensive lathe, right?

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "tiredofspam" <nospam.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Was this the saw?
>> http://www.festool.net/mediandoweb/index.cfm?sLanguage=English&ID_O_TREE_GROUP=5170&PARENT=1763&AKTIVPROD=1
>> Seems that it is available in Germany.
>> Click on the magnifier.
>
>
> A little better view
>
> http://www.festool.co.uk/artikel/artikel_weiterleiten.cfm?id=280
>

Ahh thats the saw I had. Used it for quite some time, made some wonderful
stuff with it.












O, and then I woke up.

Sigh.

M

Here it is, and interactive video with sever choices of tools to llok at.

http://www.festool.de/ipt_domino/

Choose english and click the green arrows on the bottom right side of the
display and then pick the tool.

"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Choose english and click the green arrows on the bottom right side of the
>> display and then pick the tool.
>
> It's retailing for something like $1600. It would have to be capable of a
> few more things than unparalleled dust collection for me to consider it
> and
> I ENJOY spending my money on above quality tools. Thinking of the Domino,
> now there's a tool that is decently unique in some ways. I'm wondering
> what's unique about the Kapex KS 120? It sure can't be just dust
> extraction.
>
>

$1600 where did you get that info? Although after looking at the videos I
could see how it would be in that range considering the price comparisons to
other tools. I was thinking I had read that it would be under $1000.

A few cool items on the video, dual laser, a LARGE bevel gauge with coarse
bevel adjustment and micro twist handle to get the exact bevel setting,
variable speed, depth stop for cutting groves, removable angle finder tool
to measure an angle and then bring back to the saw for adjustments, easy
blade changes, crown molding stops, adjustable fences, tool storage, cord
storage.

"mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>
> Although I can afford a few of those nice Festool toys, I really can't
> justify the price for a casual ww'er. But I'm going to watch again for
> that episode, and start taking bets on the under/over price of a Festool
> SCMS.... Mark
>

Yeah, I can afford the Festool line also but the SCMS probably would not
find itself in my shop as I have a 12" Delta CMS that I quit using in the
shop about 7 years ago. Once I upgraded to a cabinet saw I literally quit
using the CMS. If I have an outside job I pull the CMS out but that does
not happen very often. It has been about a year since I have used it. IIRC
I read an article by one of the WW magazines and a group visited the Festool
factory and the saw was going to be under but closer to $1k than most any
other brand. It did have some rather unique pluses that would set it apart.
Here is the one I read about earlier.

http://www.festool.co.uk/artikel/artikel_weiterleiten.cfm?id=280

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Often it has been discussed how to best collect dust created by a SCMS or
> CMS. The answer has almost always been, it cannot be done with great
> results. Many have shown devised setups that seem to work well but is it
> also reported that regardless of how well these modifications work there
> is still a pretty good mess to clean up. On top of that, the collector is
> most often stationary or part of a stationary stand.
> Changing direction for a bit here it has often been mentioned the
> seemingly excessive expense of certain brand tools and how the expense
> would prevent a person from ever considering that brand. As true with
> anything the initial cost of purchasing a tool will always be out of
> someone's price range. At one time PC products were a stretch for me,
> fortunately I have over come that obstacle.
> Back on topic, I was watching "Ask" This Old House today and noticed Tommy
> using a new tool. In recent months Tommy has been using a lot of new
> tools and not too coincidentally they are of the same brand. Is he or Ask
> TOH using a new sponsor? I have not seen credits going to this company
> nor does a search of this company on the "Ask" TOH web site turn up any
> results. Of all the wood working shows and talented professionals on
> these type shows I have never heard any discouraging words that would
> indicate that he does not carry the respect of most any wood worker.
> A viewer asked "Ask" TOH to help him out with crown moldings in his
> kitchen. The homeowner had been able to do most every thing himself but
> the crown moldings in a seemingly complicated area had him baffled. Tommy
> stepped in and showed how to cut crown molding for irregular angled
> corners with a SCMS. No coping, all cuts were done on the SCMS, right
> there inside the house. It took me a few minutes to realize that there
> was not a cloud of saw dust in side the homeowners house. For that matter
> I backed the video up and watched the cuts being made and again did not
> notice any saw dust escaping. Then I saw a black hose with green stripes
> in it. Hum the mostly black SCMS had a few green spots on it as well.
> Backing up again and forwarding frame by frame revealed the Festool name
> on the SCMS motor housing. The saw is not available for sale in the US
> yet so I would be sure that the saw was probably donated but it was
> certainly not promoted in the show or web site. Surely this is going to
> be another expensive product from Festool and many are not going to be
> able to justify the price of this machine. For those that make a living
> using their wood working tools I can see how this saw would be a big
> benefit when working inside a customers home and not having to set up shop
> in the rain or snow so many yards away from the project. Imagine not
> having to put up dust screens or go in and out side the home time after
> time to saw or sand pieces on the project. Imagine not tracking saw dust
> all over the house on the way outside to make another cut. Imagine this 2
> hour crown molding job only taking 20 minutes because you spend your time
> working and not cleaning up, walking in and out side time after time for a
> 10 second cut.
>
>
>
Although I can afford a few of those nice Festool toys, I really can't
justify the price for a casual ww'er. But I'm going to watch again for that
episode, and start taking bets on the under/over price of a Festool SCMS....
Mark

Definitely a cool saw. A wider arbor and ability to use dado blades for
"precision grooving" in the next generation would be good. Like the
Tormek.. Excessive profits leads to ruiness competition.. and everybody
and the bother are making knock offs of that one now. Eventually will
happen with Festool, I would imagine.. Especially if the Euro continues to
cost a buck and half American.



"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> Choose english and click the green arrows on the bottom right side of
>>> the
>>> display and then pick the tool.
>>
>> It's retailing for something like $1600. It would have to be capable of a
>> few more things than unparalleled dust collection for me to consider it
>> and
>> I ENJOY spending my money on above quality tools. Thinking of the Domino,
>> now there's a tool that is decently unique in some ways. I'm wondering
>> what's unique about the Kapex KS 120? It sure can't be just dust
>> extraction.
>>
>>
>
> $1600 where did you get that info? Although after looking at the videos I
> could see how it would be in that range considering the price comparisons
> to other tools. I was thinking I had read that it would be under $1000.
>
> A few cool items on the video, dual laser, a LARGE bevel gauge with coarse
> bevel adjustment and micro twist handle to get the exact bevel setting,
> variable speed, depth stop for cutting groves, removable angle finder tool
> to measure an angle and then bring back to the saw for adjustments, easy
> blade changes, crown molding stops, adjustable fences, tool storage, cord
> storage.
>

"tiredofspam" <nospam.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Was this the saw?
> http://www.festool.net/mediandoweb/index.cfm?sLanguage=English&ID_O_TREE_GROUP=5170&PARENT=1763&AKTIVPROD=1
> Seems that it is available in Germany.
> Click on the magnifier.


A little better view

http://www.festool.co.uk/artikel/artikel_weiterleiten.cfm?id=280

"FrozenNorth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon took a can of maroon spray paint on March 23, 2008 04:02 pm and wrote
> the following:
>
>> Often it has been discussed how to best collect dust created by a SCMS or
>> CMS. The answer has almost always been, it cannot be done with great
>> results. Many have shown devised setups that seem to work well but is it
>> also reported that regardless of how well these modifications work there
>> is
>> still a pretty good mess to clean up. On top of that, the collector is
>> most often stationary or part of a stationary stand.
>> Changing direction for a bit here it has often been mentioned the
>> seemingly excessive expense of certain brand tools and how the expense
>> would prevent a
>> person from ever considering that brand. As true with anything the
>> initial
>> cost of purchasing a tool will always be out of someone's price range.
>> At one time PC products were a stretch for me, fortunately I have over
>> come that obstacle.
>> Back on topic, I was watching "Ask" This Old House today and noticed
>> Tommy
>> using a new tool. In recent months Tommy has been using a lot of new
>> tools
>> and not too coincidentally they are of the same brand. Is he or Ask TOH
>> using a new sponsor? I have not seen credits going to this company nor
>> does
>> a search of this company on the "Ask" TOH web site turn up any results.
>> Of all the wood working shows and talented professionals on these type
>> shows I have never heard any discouraging words that would indicate that
>> he does not carry the respect of most any wood worker.
>> A viewer asked "Ask" TOH to help him out with crown moldings in his
>> kitchen. The homeowner had been able to do most every thing himself but
>> the crown
>> moldings in a seemingly complicated area had him baffled. Tommy stepped
>> in and showed how to cut crown molding for irregular angled corners with
>> a
>> SCMS. No coping, all cuts were done on the SCMS, right there inside the
>> house. It took me a few minutes to realize that there was not a cloud
>> of
>> saw dust in side the homeowners house. For that matter I backed the
>> video
>> up and watched the cuts being made and again did not notice any saw dust
>> escaping. Then I saw a black hose with green stripes in it. Hum the
>> mostly
>> black SCMS had a few green spots on it as well. Backing up again and
>> forwarding frame by frame revealed the Festool name on the SCMS motor
>> housing. The saw is not available for sale in the US yet so I would be
>> sure that the saw was probably donated but it was certainly not promoted
>> in the
>> show or web site. Surely this is going to be another expensive product
>> from Festool and many are not going to be able to justify the price of
>> this
>> machine. For those that make a living using their wood working tools I
>> can see how this saw would be a big benefit when working inside a
>> customers home and not having to set up shop in the rain or snow so many
>> yards away from
>> the project. Imagine not having to put up dust screens or go in and out
>> side the home time after time to saw or sand pieces on the project.
>> Imagine not tracking saw dust all over the house on the way outside to
>> make another
>> cut. Imagine this 2 hour crown molding job only taking 20 minutes
>> because
>> you spend your time working and not cleaning up, walking in and out side
>> time after time for a 10 second cut.
>
> Now, imagine your educated customers asking, do you use Festool?
>
> No
>
> Next.....
>
> --
> Lits Slut #9
> Life would be so much easier if we could just look at the source code.
Just curious, does that mean if someone doesn't use Festool to make his
living, a customer should keep on looking?

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:e8b4bcf7-681f-47ed-805d-bbe9a70b546e@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 23, 8:05 pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:


The tool is likely very heavy. Maybe because of the 10,000 pound chain
attached to the cement block guarded by a pair of 100 pound
dobermans..... or my lunch bucket.
That saw just yells : "STEAL MEEEE!!!!"


Doesn't it though. BTY I saw a Festool portable TS on the UK web site. ;~)

On Mar 24, 3:21=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:

There are several categories of tool purchase.

1) That'll do for this project.

2) I'll be using this often enough to justify the expense.

3) No tool, I know of, will do the job like this one does.

4 ) I cannot do this job without this tool.

5) I am soo busy doing what I do, that the extra $ 1000.00 is
meaningless in the scope of things.

6) ALL OF THE ABOVE

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> Choose english and click the green arrows on the bottom right side of the
> display and then pick the tool.

It's retailing for something like $1600. It would have to be capable of a
few more things than unparalleled dust collection for me to consider it and
I ENJOY spending my money on above quality tools. Thinking of the Domino,
now there's a tool that is decently unique in some ways. I'm wondering
what's unique about the Kapex KS 120? It sure can't be just dust extraction.

"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:27:18 GMT, FrozenNorth <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>
>>> Just curious, does that mean if someone doesn't use Festool to make his
>>> living, a customer should keep on looking?
>>
>>If savings can be passed on to the customer...
>
> If savings can be passed on, will the customer pay more because you use
> good
> quality/expensive tools?
>
> My guess is the customer doesn't care if you use a million dollars worth
> of
> tools or you use a sharp stick and a rock, as long as the end result and
> price
> are what they want..
>
>
> mac
>
> Please remove splinters before emailing
What is your opinion if a contractor shows up with a load of Festools? Is
he a good craftsman, or is he relying on his tools to make up for a lack of
skills??? IMO, at least someone who invests that much money into his
livelihood, probably isn't a fly-by-night
rip-off artist. But some of my friends also think this is just the same as
if he were to drive up in a new Mercedes. Maybe a little bit of a
showboat.....

Was this the saw?
http://www.festool.net/mediandoweb/index.cfm?sLanguage=English&ID_O_TREE_GROUP=5170&PARENT=1763&AKTIVPROD=1
Seems that it is available in Germany.
Click on the magnifier.


Leon wrote:
> Often it has been discussed how to best collect dust created by a SCMS or
> CMS. The answer has almost always been, it cannot be done with great
> results. Many have shown devised setups that seem to work well but is it
> also reported that regardless of how well these modifications work there is
> still a pretty good mess to clean up. On top of that, the collector is most
> often stationary or part of a stationary stand.
> Changing direction for a bit here it has often been mentioned the seemingly
> excessive expense of certain brand tools and how the expense would prevent a
> person from ever considering that brand. As true with anything the initial
> cost of purchasing a tool will always be out of someone's price range. At
> one time PC products were a stretch for me, fortunately I have over come
> that obstacle.
> Back on topic, I was watching "Ask" This Old House today and noticed Tommy
> using a new tool. In recent months Tommy has been using a lot of new tools
> and not too coincidentally they are of the same brand. Is he or Ask TOH
> using a new sponsor? I have not seen credits going to this company nor does
> a search of this company on the "Ask" TOH web site turn up any results. Of
> all the wood working shows and talented professionals on these type shows I
> have never heard any discouraging words that would indicate that he does not
> carry the respect of most any wood worker.
> A viewer asked "Ask" TOH to help him out with crown moldings in his kitchen.
> The homeowner had been able to do most every thing himself but the crown
> moldings in a seemingly complicated area had him baffled. Tommy stepped in
> and showed how to cut crown molding for irregular angled corners with a
> SCMS. No coping, all cuts were done on the SCMS, right there inside the
> house. It took me a few minutes to realize that there was not a cloud of
> saw dust in side the homeowners house. For that matter I backed the video
> up and watched the cuts being made and again did not notice any saw dust
> escaping. Then I saw a black hose with green stripes in it. Hum the mostly
> black SCMS had a few green spots on it as well. Backing up again and
> forwarding frame by frame revealed the Festool name on the SCMS motor
> housing. The saw is not available for sale in the US yet so I would be sure
> that the saw was probably donated but it was certainly not promoted in the
> show or web site. Surely this is going to be another expensive product from
> Festool and many are not going to be able to justify the price of this
> machine. For those that make a living using their wood working tools I can
> see how this saw would be a big benefit when working inside a customers home
> and not having to set up shop in the rain or snow so many yards away from
> the project. Imagine not having to put up dust screens or go in and out
> side the home time after time to saw or sand pieces on the project. Imagine
> not tracking saw dust all over the house on the way outside to make another
> cut. Imagine this 2 hour crown molding job only taking 20 minutes because
> you spend your time working and not cleaning up, walking in and out side
> time after time for a 10 second cut.
>
>
>

On Mar 23, 8:05=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > Choose english and click the green arrows on the bottom right side of th=
e
> > display and then pick the tool.
>
> It's retailing for something like $1600. It would have to be capable of a
> few more things than unparalleled dust collection for me to consider it an=
d
> I ENJOY spending my money on above quality tools. Thinking of the Domino,
> now there's a tool that is decently unique in some ways. I'm wondering
> what's unique about the Kapex KS 120? It sure can't be just dust extractio=
n.

The tool is likely very heavy. Maybe because of the 10,000 pound chain
attached to the cement block guarded by a pair of 100 pound
dobermans..... or my lunch bucket.
That saw just yells : "STEAL MEEEE!!!!"

"Ron Hock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I had to cut a large archway to connect the new annex of my wife's
>bookstore (she was able to rent the next-door space to almost double the
>store's floor space). The side on the new space was no sweat to excavate
>because it was unoccupied so I did all that work, paint, etc and tidied up
>before cutting through the from the bookstore side.
>
> My friend, loyal bookstore customer and boat-builder, Al, brought his
> Festool cart full of tools and we managed to cut through (the wall was
> plywood) *from the bookstore side* without covering any bookshelves at
> all. No tarps. No dust. A bit of shop-vacuuming and we were cleaned up. I
> was amazed at how well it went. And all the Festool guides and gizmos
> really did their jobs.
>
> Just my limited experience with how much time and effort Festool saved us
> on this one demanding job.


About 1 year ago I had a job to add trim in a customers kitchen. The
Festool vac and mitersaw would have been great in that application. I
probably custom fitted 50 pieces of trim in that kitchen and with each piece
it meant a trip out to the driveway. If I did that every day the $1600
would be justified.

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:44:05 GMT, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"mark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>> What is your opinion if a contractor shows up with a load of Festools? Is
>> he a good craftsman, or is he relying on his tools to make up for a lack
>> of skills??? IMO, at least someone who invests that much money into his
>> livelihood, probably isn't a fly-by-night
>
>I think that idf a customer recognised the Festool brand he just might do
>the work himself. ;~)
>
>
thank, you sir..
>


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> WOW.. I'm glad I'm an amateur!
> My TS and band saw combined were about $1,000 and I thought that $200 on
> sale
> for the Craftsman CSM was a bit high....
>
> Then again, I just paid $2,500 for a lathe that I didn't really need...
> ;~]


LOL, It's all in what fills the bill.

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:05:16 -0500, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> Choose english and click the green arrows on the bottom right side of the
>> display and then pick the tool.
>
>It's retailing for something like $1600. It would have to be capable of a
>few more things than unparalleled dust collection for me to consider it and
>I ENJOY spending my money on above quality tools.
<snip>

No shit! Like draw the plans, present them to the client and drive me home...
Ya know, it may very well be 8 times better than the $200 ones, but I don't have
8 times the skill level to need it..



mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:45:38 GMT, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>But, that is a true statement.

And as soon as the Festool truck pulls up with my free samples of one
of each from the catalog I will agree with you.

Any minute now, I'm sure.

I'd settle for them naming one of their bazillion lines of ROS papers
with cutesy names after me.


-Leuf

"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:37:34 GMT, "Leon" <[email protected]>
> wrote:

> Then again, I just paid $2,500 for a lathe that I didn't really need...
> ;~]
>
>
> mac
>


Heheh - now thats a boat floater!
;)

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:59:56 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:

>
>"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 00:42:55 GMT, "Mike Richardson"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>"mac davis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>> On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:37:34 GMT, "Leon" <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Then again, I just paid $2,500 for a lathe that I didn't really need...
>>>> ;~]
>>>
>>>Heheh - now thats a boat floater!
>>>;)
>> Yeah.. that's almost as much as I made last year selling my stuff...
>> not exactly a good investment, but it sure is fun.. ;~)
>>
>
>Yeah but, if you are turning on a regular basis, it has got to be much nicer
>on the more expensive lathe, right?
>
>
For sure.. I turn almost every day and I've been lusting after this lathe for 3
years..
It's only an additional 2" of swing over my jet, but having digital speed
control, reverse, computer spindle sensing and a bunch of other features, it's a
joy to use..

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?FamilyID=5485&cs=7361&pcs=fam


mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 15:02:18 -0500, "Leon"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Often it has been discussed how to best collect dust created by a SCMS or
>CMS. The answer has almost always been, it cannot be done with great
>results.

Honestly I think all the manufacturers to this point just stick a hole
for a vacuum at the top of the guard and didn't put one iota into
actually making it work. On my Bosch it can work half decent on thick
material, 2x4s and the like. Anything thinner and I can see the dust
go shooting right by the sides of the guard. If it just had more of a
scoop to it at the bottom it would work. That's what it looks like to
me on the Festool. It's also way WAY too constricted on the Bosch, it
sounds like a freight train when I turn on the vac. So I don't think
this is any particularly monumental invention, just someone spent more
than 5 minutes on the dust collection.

And yes, Tommy can't go 5 minutes without breaking out a Festool toy.
It's the only time he actually gets his hands dirty anymore. I know
PBS has some rules about advertising so you aren't going to hear
anything actually spoken about it, but gone are the days when they
taped over all the manufacturers names.


-Leuf