Mission Chair Reproduction 2013

On Wed, 06 Mar 2013 18:27:38 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5852388683582676514
>
>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5852390601752572754

I'm impressed it's got to be harder to duplicate an existing chair
then to design and build. You loose the there no such thing as an
error only a design modification factor. 8-)

Mike M

On 2/26/2013 5:43 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:

> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013?noredirect=1
>>
>> Scroll on down ...
>
> Very nice.

Thanks.

> You should enter it into the instructables contest.

All the award I need at my age is the client's check. :)

> BTW, what CAD software are you using?

Switched to Sketchup about five or six years ago, and have never looked
back.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Unquestionably Confused <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/21/2013 9:41 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> Agreed to take this one on today, it should be fun:
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#
>
>
> Nice looking chair. SWMBO and I love the Mission/Arts&Crafts/Stickley
> style (at least this year<g>).
>
> Please keep us in the loop as you proceed.

Will do ... I'm looking forward to reproducing this chair. That curved back
is a challenge.

> Is that your music stand next to the "model?" Very neat. Looks like
> somebody is/knows a welder/smithie with some talent.

Linda has two of those .. I think they may have been a gift from a fan
somewhere in the distant past. She and our daughter have a concert this
weekend, so brought that thing into _my_ office Sunday so I could help them
with the chords to Alison Krauss's acapella version of "Down to The River
To Pray".

Songwriter, singer, or not, want to know the chords to a song? Just ask
the closest bass player. :)

It will probably be in my way for months now ...

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On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 4:22:33 PM UTC-6, Leon wrote:
>
> For beginners, Karl did not use the big ass staples to hold the front leg=
s like the factory did, these chairs are far superior to the factory sets.

On a similar note, much of today's upholstered furniture has lots of staple=
d butt joints, often with no glue, no dowels, etc. Sometimes there's a thi=
n ply piece spanning a butt joint, with only staples attaching the ply. =20

For anyone, I recommend finding the much better made old furniture and have=
it reupholstered. For a woodworker, once the upholsterer removes the old =
fabric/padding, you can repair any internal damage/loose joints properly, i=
f the upholsterer doesn't repair wood parts (Some don't. They just cover u=
p what's there, unless otherwise instructed).

.... Or maybe we could send our broken furniture to Karl and he'll repair i=
t, really well, - for free?

Sonny

On 3/6/2013 8:59 PM, Mike M wrote:

> I'm impressed it's got to be harder to duplicate an existing chair
> then to design and build. You loose the there no such thing as an
> error only a design modification factor.8-)

You got that right.

And it's much harder to duplicate a poorly made chair, than one that's
properly made using traditional joinery and techniques.

The chair being duplicated is a factory made "furniture store" chair,
and the "joinery" is comprised of dowels, staples and lag bolts (I'm not
kidding about the lag bolts, used on the corner braces to add support to
the back legs ... and with that half circle back leg, it might not be
all that bad of an idea).

It is apparent that the way the original chair is put together in the
factory is an expedient based on the design itself. The curves and
multiple compound angles require more precision than can be generally
done cost effectively in a lower end factory product, therefore the
choice of expedient "joinery".

In the two reproduction chairs, the client is getting a product made
with traditional methods, that faithfully implements the design in all
aspects, although in this day and age it is all about appearance, and
nothing else seems to matter.

IOW, and once again, guilty as charged ... putting $$$ (time/effort)
into a product where it can't be seen. ;)

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 3/13/2013 1:16 PM, John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "Swingman" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> All parts done, sanding and glue-up and it's toast.
>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5854886302188892418
>>
>
> Ah... the home stretch! Do you do the upholstery too or farm that out?

No, that's up to the client, as well as the staining finishing. (but I
will do the seat frames for her, which for these chairs is simply 1/2"
plywood).

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 23 Feb 2013 14:39:17 GMT, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>> That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. <g>
>I miss Robatoy's comments ...

Yeah. This newsgroup is the worse for it.

On 3/13/2013 1:56 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:

> How well they match. Can somebody look at them and tell the difference
> between the mass manufactured version and the hand made in Karl's shop
> version?

Hopefully not ... a faithful reproduction with regard to look and style
was sorta the whole idea. :)

And, as long as the client is happy, I could care less.

> I find it interesting that you are making a far superior version of the
> chair. But they will end up looking alike.

Never underestimate the fact that putting time, effort, and money where
it can't be seen goes a long way to insuring that you can make a living
at what you enjoy doing. :)

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/21/2013 9:41 AM, Swingman wrote:
> Agreed to take this one on today, it should be fun:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#


Nice looking chair. SWMBO and I love the Mission/Arts&Crafts/Stickley
style (at least this year<g>).

Please keep us in the loop as you proceed.

Is that your music stand next to the "model?" Very neat. Looks like
somebody is/knows a welder/smithie with some talent.

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> As soon as I can find my way back to the shop from 610 Loop, I'll take
> that under advisement. ;)
>

I thought that was for hurricane evacuations, not snow storms. *g*

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

"Swingman" wrote
>
> And yes, I'm working in my office ... so I can enter everything in
> Sketchup as it works out. ;)
>
Working in your office, eh? Doesn't the missus get upset with al the noise
and sawdust? ;-)

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> All parts done, sanding and glue-up and it's toast.
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5854886302188892418
>
Looking good there Karl.

I know that you are making some "matching" chairs. To my critical eye, I am
sure I would notice the difference. I suppose that most people would not.
Is that in any way a concern for the clients?

To be clear about this, the reason I would notice the difference is that I
always go under the furniture to see how it was put together. Between
actually building furniture and inspecting it enough, I know my way around
this topic. My wife, who is a quilter, can look at any quilt and tell you
all kinds of details that I would never guess. So, if you have special
knowledge, this kind of thing becomes easy. But most people just don't
notice the details that much.

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 3/13/2013 1:21 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> All parts done, sanding and glue-up and it's toast.
>>>
>>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5854886302188892418
>>>
>>>
>> Looking good there Karl.
>>
>> I know that you are making some "matching" chairs. To my critical eye,
>> I am sure I would notice the difference. I suppose that most people
>> would not. Is that in any way a concern for the clients?
>
> Not sure I understand. Is what a concern?
>
How well they match. Can somebody look at them and tell the difference
between the mass manufactured version and the hand made in Karl's shop
version?

I find it interesting that you are making a far superior version of the
chair. But they will end up looking alike.

"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote
>
> For beginners, Karl did not use the big ass staples to hold the front legs
> like the factory did, these chairs are far superior to the factory sets.
>
Exactly my point! His is a far superior product. Most people would not
notice the difference. I think I would. Just because I get nosy and stick
my head underneath the wood furniture item to see what it is made of. If
they looked identical, and I just looked under one, I wouldn't notice. But
if I looked at two and saw a difference, I would immediately investigate al
the chairs.

I am also sensitive to colors. And if the finish was just a little off, I
would probably notice it.

I should mention that I knew a guy who worked for a local finish company.
His job was to match a finish with anything that somebody brought through
the door. He was very good. The finishes were tricky and involved. But if
you wanted a match, they would mix it up for you. You would bring in some
scrap and they would put several different mixes onto the wood. A day or
two later, they would have it perfect. Or if you were in a hurry, they
would dry the finish with a hair dryer. I have seen a number of repaired
and replacement furniture with absolutely perfect matches. He had an eye. I
could never do that.

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The client having been out of town, I had the opportunity this morning to
> save her a trip and deliver the existing chair and the two reproductions I
> made to the upholstery shop, where they were re-upholstering the other
> chairs in the set; both so the upholstery shop could deliver them all to
> her at the same time; and to give me the possibly last opportunity to
> photograph them in their final state:
>
> https://plus.google.com/photos/111355467778981859077/albums/5847426571771263937/5863424120819206642?banner=pwa
>
I know, I know, the client is always right. And there is no accounting for
taste. But purple??? Yuck!!

The chairs look nice. I would have definitely gone for another color for
the seats.

On 3/13/2013 1:21 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
>
>
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> All parts done, sanding and glue-up and it's toast.
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5854886302188892418
>>
>>
> Looking good there Karl.
>
> I know that you are making some "matching" chairs. To my critical eye,
> I am sure I would notice the difference. I suppose that most people
> would not. Is that in any way a concern for the clients?

Not sure I understand. Is what a concern?

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 09:17:25 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 2/23/2013 8:39 AM, Han wrote:
>> Swingman wrote
>
>>> Actually, if the truth were told, I found out early on that time spent
>>> in detailed planning makes up, somewhat, for a lack of talent.
>>>
>>> That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. <g>
>
>> I miss Robatoy's comments ...
>
>That makes bofus ... although we never actually met in person, I sure
>enjoyed knowing Rob. Odd how the world turns sometimes ...

Definitely we lost a lot not having his posts. This was a man that
understood the passion of life.

Mike M

On Monday, March 4, 2013 6:40:15 PM UTC-6, Swingman wrote:
> Chair legs with two radii of the magnitude are a PITA ..=20

For a long time, I've liked front porch chairs and rockers. Every opportun=
ity I've had, I would speak to old timers about their chair making.

Long ago, one old timer told me how to easily make a double curve on the ba=
ckrest support and continuous with/onto the (lower) leg, when creating/desi=
gning a chair from scratch. Maybe others had used or knew of this, but it =
never occured to me to try it, so I was impressed and have never forgotten.=
*A slap in the face of how easy and simple it is. I recall,(I thought I =
knew it all) my "educated" ass was taught a good lesson about the common se=
nse of such things, that day.

It went something like: "If the upper curve is on 3', then, to make the lo=
wer curve with a sharper curve, shorten your same string with a nail, on th=
e same sweep." I was trying to understand his French and I don't speak or =
understand French very well.

Anchor (focal point) your 3' string and sweep your pencil, at the other end=
, to make the upper curve. At the point you want to start making your lowe=
r curve, and for it to be graciously continuous with the upper curve/sweep,=
put a nail 6" closer to the pencil. As you make your upper sweep mark, th=
e string hits the nail and the nail becomes the new focal point. The short=
er length/radius continues the sweep, hence making the lower curve a sharpe=
r turn. There's an infinite number of different double curves to make by p=
ositioning the nail at different distances.

Visiting with old timers is, often, as much a pleasure as woodworking, itse=
lf.

And, Karl.... your chair is looking good, too! =20

Sonny

On 2/23/2013 8:39 AM, Han wrote:
> Swingman wrote

>> Actually, if the truth were told, I found out early on that time spent
>> in detailed planning makes up, somewhat, for a lack of talent.
>>
>> That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. <g>

> I miss Robatoy's comments ...

That makes bofus ... although we never actually met in person, I sure
enjoyed knowing Rob. Odd how the world turns sometimes ...

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 3/5/2013 1:44 AM, Dave wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 18:40:15 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#

>> Scroll to the end ... I'm far from being out of the woods on these
>> curve. Chair legs with two radii of the magnitude are a PITA ..
>
> Nice looking chairs, but I like the mission bar chair style better.

Not my call. These are for a client who wanted two additional chairs to
match 10 existing chairs, but wants to use these on each end of the
table, therefore wanted the front width 2" shorter, but everything else
an exact match.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 3/4/2013 8:12 PM, Sonny wrote:
> On Monday, March 4, 2013 6:40:15 PM UTC-6, Swingman wrote:
>> Chair legs with two radii of the magnitude are a PITA ..
>
> For a long time, I've liked front porch chairs and rockers. Every opportunity I've had, I would speak to old timers about their chair making.
>
> Long ago, one old timer told me how to easily make a double curve on the backrest support and continuous with/onto the (lower) leg, when creating/designing a chair from scratch. Maybe others had used or knew of this, but it never occured to me to try it, so I was impressed and have never forgotten. *A slap in the face of how easy and simple it is. I recall,(I thought I knew it all) my "educated" ass was taught a good lesson about the common sense of such things, that day.
>
> It went something like: "If the upper curve is on 3', then, to make the lower curve with a sharper curve, shorten your same string with a nail, on the same sweep." I was trying to understand his French and I don't speak or understand French very well.
>
> Anchor (focal point) your 3' string and sweep your pencil, at the other end, to make the upper curve. At the point you want to start making your lower curve, and for it to be graciously continuous with the upper curve/sweep, put a nail 6" closer to the pencil. As you make your upper sweep mark, the string hits the nail and the nail becomes the new focal point. The shorter length/radius continues the sweep, hence making the lower curve a sharper turn. There's an infinite number of different double curves to make by positioning the nail at different distances.
>
> Visiting with old timers is, often, as much a pleasure as woodworking, itself.
>
> And, Karl.... your chair is looking good, too!

That's a neat trick, but it apparently wasn't used on the original of
these two that I am commissioned to match.

There are 4 separate curve radii on the back chair legs, two on the
front and two on the back.

Then the leg is angled back almost 3 degrees.

I just made an mdf template to match an existing leg, and used that to
make four identical to the above.

Placement of M&T joints on these curved legs for the chair side aprons
(angled downward the same three degrees) on the back legs, and for the
curved back rest spindles and angled back rest rails, is the fun, PITA
part. ;)

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5852388683582676514

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5852390601752572754


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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/21/2013 10:58 AM, [email protected] wrote:

> I always love to see your work. Since I have seen your work in
> person, my mind fills in the tight joints, the solid construction, and
> the well thought out details in the projects you turn out that
> pictures can't show. Sadly, (and no idea of how to fix this...) your
> pictures, probably no one's, could do some of your work justice.
>
> But the next thing that impresses me is that you take the time to
> document your work, explain it, and provide drawings and sketches to
> assist in understanding your designs and methods. I don't know if
> very many understand much time and effort that takes, but I sure do.
>
> So thanks for your work and thanks for sharing it. I look forward to
> the build process on this newest contract.

<blush> Thanks, Robert ... damn! :)

Actually, if the truth were told, I found out early on that time spent
in detailed planning makes up, somewhat, for a lack of talent.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. <g>

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

The client having been out of town, I had the opportunity this morning
to save her a trip and deliver the existing chair and the two
reproductions I made to the upholstery shop, where they were
re-upholstering the other chairs in the set; both so the upholstery shop
could deliver them all to her at the same time; and to give me the
possibly last opportunity to photograph them in their final state:

https://plus.google.com/photos/111355467778981859077/albums/5847426571771263937/5863424120819206642?banner=pwa


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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 3/6/2013 7:27 PM, Swingman wrote:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5852388683582676514
>
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5852390601752572754
>
>
>
I feel like a hacker seeing your images and prep work (sketchup).
I really have to get comfortable with that program.. I can see how
useful it is on rough cutting and finish cutting.
Everything's nicely laid out..

Nice work Karl.


--
Jeff

On 4/5/2013 1:23 PM, Swingman wrote:
> The client having been out of town, I had the opportunity this morning
> to save her a trip and deliver the existing chair and the two
> reproductions I made to the upholstery shop, where they were
> re-upholstering the other chairs in the set; both so the upholstery shop
> could deliver them all to her at the same time; and to give me the
> possibly last opportunity to photograph them in their final state:
>
> https://plus.google.com/photos/111355467778981859077/albums/5847426571771263937/5863424120819206642?banner=pwa
>
>
>


Well the chairs look fantastic and I still believe that you nailed the
color on the wood.

Now, there must be something wrong with the color on my monitor, what
color is the upholstery? ;~)

On 2/21/2013 12:25 PM, Sonny wrote:

> On Thursday, February 21, 2013 11:46:13 AM UTC-6, Swingman wrote:
>> Here's how that may play out: https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5847462586683880274
>
> Heck, Robert. He's already got the curve of the back leg going the wrong way.... unless it's being made for someone that'll be facing to the left.

As soon as I can find my way back to the shop from 610 Loop, I'll take
that under advisement. ;)

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 2/21/2013 10:58 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> I always love to see your work. Since I have seen your work in
>> person, my mind fills in the tight joints, the solid construction, and
>> the well thought out details in the projects you turn out that
>> pictures can't show. Sadly, (and no idea of how to fix this...) your
>> pictures, probably no one's, could do some of your work justice.
>>
>> But the next thing that impresses me is that you take the time to
>> document your work, explain it, and provide drawings and sketches to
>> assist in understanding your designs and methods. I don't know if
>> very many understand much time and effort that takes, but I sure do.
>>
>> So thanks for your work and thanks for sharing it. I look forward to
>> the build process on this newest contract.
>
> <blush> Thanks, Robert ... damn! :)
>
> Actually, if the truth were told, I found out early on that time spent
> in detailed planning makes up, somewhat, for a lack of talent.
>
> That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. <g>

I miss Robatoy's comments ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 2/23/2013 8:39 AM, Han wrote:
>> Swingman wrote
>
>>> Actually, if the truth were told, I found out early on that time
>>> spent in detailed planning makes up, somewhat, for a lack of talent.
>>>
>>> That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. <g>
>
>> I miss Robatoy's comments ...
>
> That makes bofus ... although we never actually met in person, I sure
> enjoyed knowing Rob. Odd how the world turns sometimes ...

Same here ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChai
> rReproduction2013#5852388683582676514
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChai
> rReproduction2013#5852390601752572754

Very nice, Karl!!!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> All parts done, sanding and glue-up and it's toast.
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChai
> rReproduction2013#5854886302188892418

Looks great Karl!!

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On 4/5/2013 2:41 PM, chaniarts wrote:

>
> why didn't she just hire you to replace them all, so they'd exactly
> match and be perfect from the get go? you could have done all the back
> slats out of the same piece of wood, and had the grain flow from one
> chair to the next?

LOL You guys not used to dealing with "clients", eh? :)

There _is_ no rhyme or reason behind what a client wants, but if you
want to be successful in this business, you give them what they asked for.

I would make an educated guess that since none of the existing ten
chairs ever matched each other "... perfect from the get go", that was
obviously not an important consideration to her.

Besides, where none matched before, at least two of them do now ... end
of story. :)

That notwithstanding, most clients do indeed need to be educated to the
process, but not with regard to taste.

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#


Scroll to the end ... I'm far from being out of the woods on these
curve. Chair legs with two radii of the magnitude are a PITA ..

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/21/2013 9:41 AM, Swingman wrote:

> Agreed to take this one on today, it should be fun:


https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013?noredirect=1

Scroll on down ...

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/21/2013 11:13 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/21/13 10:48 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> That curved back is a challenge.
>
> Sounds like the perfect excuse to get into steam bending. :-)

The original is a factory made (rather poorly, IMO) furniture store
chair of approximately ten years of age, and the curved back legs are
most definitely cut out of a wider board.

On careful inspection, 5/4 red oak stock, 7 1/4" in width x 40" in
length, will accommodate this method for that curve as long as the grain
is carefully chosen.

Here's how that may play out:

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5847462586683880274


A plus is that at least the front, and back, legs for each side of the
proposed chairs can be laminated to the required 2" width at the top,
from the curved cutoffs of that same stock/process.

Down payment in hand and finished my CutList this morning, so will be
shopping for suitable stock this afternoon and tomorrow.

I'm going to do one prototype (but useable?) leg as a router template,
in any case, so I'll have a better feel for methodology at that point.

And yes, I'm working in my office ... so I can enter everything in
Sketchup as it works out. ;)

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Thursday, February 21, 2013 10:58:38 AM UTC-6, [email protected] wrote:
> I always love to see your work. Since I have seen your work in person, my mind fills in ....... the well thought out details


On Thursday, February 21, 2013 11:46:13 AM UTC-6, Swingman wrote:
> Here's how that may play out: https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5847462586683880274

Heck, Robert. He's already got the curve of the back leg going the wrong way.... unless it's being made for someone that'll be facing to the left.

Sonny

All parts done, sanding and glue-up and it's toast.

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5854886302188892418

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

I always love to see your work. Since I have seen your work in
person, my mind fills in the tight joints, the solid construction, and
the well thought out details in the projects you turn out that
pictures can't show. Sadly, (and no idea of how to fix this...) your
pictures, probably no one's, could do some of your work justice.

But the next thing that impresses me is that you take the time to
document your work, explain it, and provide drawings and sketches to
assist in understanding your designs and methods. I don't know if
very many understand much time and effort that takes, but I sure do.

So thanks for your work and thanks for sharing it. I look forward to
the build process on this newest contract.

Robert

On 2/21/13 10:48 AM, Swingman wrote:
> That curved back is a challenge.

Sounds like the perfect excuse to get into steam bending. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 18:40:15 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#
>Scroll to the end ... I'm far from being out of the woods on these
>curve. Chair legs with two radii of the magnitude are a PITA ..

Nice looking chairs, but I like the mission bar chair style better.

On 2/24/2013 12:44 AM, Dave wrote:
> On 23 Feb 2013 14:39:17 GMT, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. <g>
>> I miss Robatoy's comments ...
>
> Yeah. This newsgroup is the worse for it.
>
The WORLD is the worse for it, glad I have a piece of his work in my
house, brings a little pleasure every day.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

On 2/24/2013 1:28 AM, Dave wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 01:12:06 -0500, FrozenNorth
>> The WORLD is the worse for it, glad I have a piece of his work in my
>> house, brings a little pleasure every day.
>
> Really? What do you have? In the last several years past, I sought to
> get together with him on one of his visits to Toronto, but it just
> never happened.
>
Simple shelf over the stove, left over cut offs from counter tops, CNC
work, he planned on delivering it, or getting close, time in hindsight
wasn't on his side. He shipped it to me on his dime, very generous man.

--
Froz...


The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.

In article <[email protected]>,
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2/21/2013 9:41 AM, Swingman wrote:
>
>
>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013?noredirect=1
>
>Scroll on down ...

Very nice. You should enter it into the instructables contest.

BTW, what CAD software are you using?

--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

In article <[email protected]>,
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2/26/2013 5:43 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
>> BTW, what CAD software are you using?
>
>Switched to Sketchup about five or six years ago, and have never looked
>back.

That's what I thought, but the dimension annotations look much better
than they do for me. Did you do something special there?

--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/

On 3/13/13 1:06 PM, Swingman wrote:
> All parts done, sanding and glue-up and it's toast.
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5854886302188892418
>
>

Dey sho iz purdy!


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/5/2013 2:34 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
>
>
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> The client having been out of town, I had the opportunity this morning
>> to save her a trip and deliver the existing chair and the two
>> reproductions I made to the upholstery shop, where they were
>> re-upholstering the other chairs in the set; both so the upholstery
>> shop could deliver them all to her at the same time; and to give me
>> the possibly last opportunity to photograph them in their final state:
>>
>> https://plus.google.com/photos/111355467778981859077/albums/5847426571771263937/5863424120819206642?banner=pwa
>>
>>
> I know, I know, the client is always right. And there is no accounting
> for taste. But purple??? Yuck!!
>
> The chairs look nice. I would have definitely gone for another color
> for the seats.
>
>
>
More like a deep blue on my monitor.

On 4/5/13 1:50 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>> https://plus.google.com/photos/111355467778981859077/albums/5847426571771263937/5863424120819206642?banner=pwa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I know, I know, the client is always right. And there is no accounting
>> for taste. But purple??? Yuck!!
>>
>> The chairs look nice. I would have definitely gone for another color
>> for the seats.
>>
>>
>>
> More like a deep blue on my monitor.

No it's purple. I'm guessing it's going somewhere that was decorated in
the mid nineties when mauve wasn't puked over. (see: my wedding pics) :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 4/5/2013 2:23 PM, Swingman wrote:
> The client having been out of town, I had the opportunity this morning
> to save her a trip and deliver the existing chair and the two
> reproductions I made to the upholstery shop, where they were
> re-upholstering the other chairs in the set; both so the upholstery shop
> could deliver them all to her at the same time; and to give me the
> possibly last opportunity to photograph them in their final state:
>
> https://plus.google.com/photos/111355467778981859077/albums/5847426571771263937/5863424120819206642?banner=pwa
>
>
>
Nice job. It's a good thing I don't do woodworking for a living, because
the client would have to pry work like that out of my cold, dead,
splintered fingers. I might not even let people sit on them in my own
house. I'd build a glass-enclosed showcase to put them in and wouldn't
allow anyone to touch that either. :)

Speaking of clients, any chance yours will take issue with the more
prominent grain on the reproductions? That's got to be another tricky
aspect of being in the "making anything custom" business; even if you
make it *better* than the original, it may not be exactly how they
imagined it.

On 4/5/2013 12:36 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/5/2013 2:13 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> On 4/5/2013 2:23 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>> The client having been out of town, I had the opportunity this morning
>>> to save her a trip and deliver the existing chair and the two
>>> reproductions I made to the upholstery shop, where they were
>>> re-upholstering the other chairs in the set; both so the upholstery shop
>>> could deliver them all to her at the same time; and to give me the
>>> possibly last opportunity to photograph them in their final state:
>>>
>>> https://plus.google.com/photos/111355467778981859077/albums/5847426571771263937/5863424120819206642?banner=pwa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Nice job. It's a good thing I don't do woodworking for a living, because
>> the client would have to pry work like that out of my cold, dead,
>> splintered fingers. I might not even let people sit on them in my own
>> house. I'd build a glass-enclosed showcase to put them in and wouldn't
>> allow anyone to touch that either. :)
>>
>> Speaking of clients, any chance yours will take issue with the more
>> prominent grain on the reproductions? That's got to be another tricky
>> aspect of being in the "making anything custom" business; even if you
>> make it *better* than the original, it may not be exactly how they
>> imagined it.
>
> She has no problem with that, and the possibility was discussed upfront
> ... there are nine other chairs besides the original in the photo, some
> of which have a good of grain on the back rests and aprons also (I
> actually got to see the others at the upholstery shop the morning and
> that was one thing I took particular notice of)
>
> All the other chairs are factory made and were bought at a furniture
> store many years ago, and although they are "oak", there is hardly a
> single piece of wood in the lot.
>
> IOW, almost every component of the originals has a glue line, and many
> non-matching grain patterns in the face and edges of each component,
> where you can see where different boards were glued together to make up
> the stock for the factory production.
>
> A common practice with factory furniture, economizing by gluing up the
> scraps from production.
>

why didn't she just hire you to replace them all, so they'd exactly
match and be perfect from the get go? you could have done all the back
slats out of the same piece of wood, and had the grain flow from one
chair to the next?

On 4/5/2013 3:39 PM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/5/2013 2:41 PM, chaniarts wrote:
>
>>
>> why didn't she just hire you to replace them all, so they'd exactly
>> match and be perfect from the get go? you could have done all the back
>> slats out of the same piece of wood, and had the grain flow from one
>> chair to the next?
>
> LOL You guys not used to dealing with "clients", eh? :)

i do stained glass windows for clients. try arguing colors and
densities, when you have to worry about what kind of light is coming
through the glass at what time of day, and trying to teach them that
that brilliantly colored glass at night reads all black.

> There _is_ no rhyme or reason behind what a client wants, but if you
> want to be successful in this business, you give them what they asked for.
>
> I would make an educated guess that since none of the existing ten
> chairs ever matched each other "... perfect from the get go", that was
> obviously not an important consideration to her.
>
> Besides, where none matched before, at least two of them do now ... end
> of story. :)
>
> That notwithstanding, most clients do indeed need to be educated to the
> process, but not with regard to taste.
>

On Wed, 13 Mar 2013 13:06:03 -0500, Swingman wrote:

> All parts done, sanding and glue-up and it's toast.
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5854886302188892418

Good deal, they look really nice.

I have made a few chair like objects, one was so uncomfortable that it
couldn't have been used as an electric chair for fear of cruel and unusual
punishment.

basilisk

On 2/21/2013 12:59 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> As soon as I can find my way back to the shop from 610 Loop, I'll take
>> that under advisement. ;)
>>
>
> I thought that was for hurricane evacuations, not snow storms. *g*

Been driving for a looong time. :)

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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/27/2013 5:40 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2/26/2013 5:43 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
>>> BTW, what CAD software are you using?
>>
>> Switched to Sketchup about five or six years ago, and have never looked
>> back.
>
> That's what I thought, but the dimension annotations look much better
> than they do for me. Did you do something special there?
>


Sketch up is very adjustable. The dimensions can be tweaked by Windows,
Model Info, Dimensions, and go for it.

And as you probably know Styles will let you change line weights.

On 3/13/2013 1:21 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
>
>
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> All parts done, sanding and glue-up and it's toast.
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5854886302188892418
>>
>>
> Looking good there Karl.
>
> I know that you are making some "matching" chairs. To my critical eye,
> I am sure I would notice the difference. I suppose that most people
> would not. Is that in any way a concern for the clients?
>
> To be clear about this, the reason I would notice the difference is that
> I always go under the furniture to see how it was put together. Between
> actually building furniture and inspecting it enough, I know my way
> around this topic. My wife, who is a quilter, can look at any quilt and
> tell you all kinds of details that I would never guess. So, if you have
> special knowledge, this kind of thing becomes easy. But most people
> just don't notice the details that much.
>
>
>


For beginners, Karl did not use the big ass staples to hold the front
legs like the factory did, these chairs are far superior to the factory
sets.

On Sun, 24 Feb 2013 01:12:06 -0500, FrozenNorth
>The WORLD is the worse for it, glad I have a piece of his work in my
>house, brings a little pleasure every day.

Really? What do you have? In the last several years past, I sought to
get together with him on one of his visits to Toronto, but it just
never happened.

On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 23:04:54 -0800, Mike M
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 23 Feb 2013 09:17:25 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On 2/23/2013 8:39 AM, Han wrote:
>>> Swingman wrote
>>
>>>> Actually, if the truth were told, I found out early on that time spent
>>>> in detailed planning makes up, somewhat, for a lack of talent.
>>>>
>>>> That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. <g>
>>
>>> I miss Robatoy's comments ...
>>
>>That makes bofus ... although we never actually met in person, I sure
>>enjoyed knowing Rob. Odd how the world turns sometimes ...
>
>Definitely we lost a lot not having his posts. This was a man that
>understood the passion of life.

+1

--
Progress is the product of human agency. Things get better because
we make them better. Things go wrong when we get too comfortable,
when we fail to take risks or seize opportunities.
-- Susan Rice

On 4/5/2013 1:34 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
>
>
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> The client having been out of town, I had the opportunity this morning
>> to save her a trip and deliver the existing chair and the two
>> reproductions I made to the upholstery shop, where they were
>> re-upholstering the other chairs in the set; both so the upholstery
>> shop could deliver them all to her at the same time; and to give me
>> the possibly last opportunity to photograph them in their final state:
>>
>> https://plus.google.com/photos/111355467778981859077/albums/5847426571771263937/5863424120819206642?banner=pwa
>>
>>
> I know, I know, the client is always right. And there is no accounting
> for taste. But purple??? Yuck!!
>
> The chairs look nice. I would have definitely gone for another color
> for the seats.

LOL ... Linda said the same thing, only she kindly qualified it with
"I'm sure it goes with the decor.".

Since I have no earthly idea what "purple" is, as opposed to "blue"
which is what I would have said if you held a gun to my head, it's all
pink to me.

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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>All parts done, sanding and glue-up and it's toast.

>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopMissionChairReproduction2013#5854886302188892418

Ah... the home stretch! Do you do the upholstery too or farm that out?

On 4/5/2013 2:13 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> On 4/5/2013 2:23 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> The client having been out of town, I had the opportunity this morning
>> to save her a trip and deliver the existing chair and the two
>> reproductions I made to the upholstery shop, where they were
>> re-upholstering the other chairs in the set; both so the upholstery shop
>> could deliver them all to her at the same time; and to give me the
>> possibly last opportunity to photograph them in their final state:
>>
>> https://plus.google.com/photos/111355467778981859077/albums/5847426571771263937/5863424120819206642?banner=pwa
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Nice job. It's a good thing I don't do woodworking for a living, because
> the client would have to pry work like that out of my cold, dead,
> splintered fingers. I might not even let people sit on them in my own
> house. I'd build a glass-enclosed showcase to put them in and wouldn't
> allow anyone to touch that either. :)
>
> Speaking of clients, any chance yours will take issue with the more
> prominent grain on the reproductions? That's got to be another tricky
> aspect of being in the "making anything custom" business; even if you
> make it *better* than the original, it may not be exactly how they
> imagined it.

She has no problem with that, and the possibility was discussed upfront
... there are nine other chairs besides the original in the photo, some
of which have a good of grain on the back rests and aprons also (I
actually got to see the others at the upholstery shop the morning and
that was one thing I took particular notice of)

All the other chairs are factory made and were bought at a furniture
store many years ago, and although they are "oak", there is hardly a
single piece of wood in the lot.

IOW, almost every component of the originals has a glue line, and many
non-matching grain patterns in the face and edges of each component,
where you can see where different boards were glued together to make up
the stock for the factory production.

A common practice with factory furniture, economizing by gluing up the
scraps from production.

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://plus.google.com/114902129577517371552/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)