I just bought a used but in beautiful shape old craftsman radial arm saw
and here's what I've learned so far,
It's heavy, I won't ever be moving it alone again.
It starts with a key.
It purrs like a kitten.
Now I just need to learn everything else about it, particularly in regards
to keeping all the parts I was born with attached. Anyone know of any good
books available that cover these saws or have any personal advice they want
to share?
I believe the saw is from around 1959, it came with some accessories, most
original and new in the box. If anyone's intersted I can post some pictures
in abpw.
Thanks for taking the time to read this,
Adam
"George" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> My personal worst, to date, was my bandsaw. Turn the saw off, start to
> brush dust away. SHEESH! Lucky I can still bend that knuckle.
>
I have a good friend who was cutting some stock on a band saw. He is one of
those guys who doesn't have a very developed sense of pain. Which makes him
a super athlete. He doesn't know when to quit. But doesn't help him much
with safety and pwer tools.
He was cutting on a band saw and cut one of his fingers in half, the long
way. It just split the finger wide open, right down the middle. Just like a
hot dog cut in half to grill it.
Wrapped it up, went to the hospital. The surgeon didn't do too much. He said
he didn't have to. It healed up nicely. Big gnarly scar down the center of
the finger. It is a little bigger than the other fingers. A little stiff.
And it acts up when the weather changes.
But it still works. He said he didn't feel it.
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 00:26:21 GMT, Adam
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I just bought a used but in beautiful shape old craftsman radial arm saw
>and here's what I've learned so far,
>It's heavy, I won't ever be moving it alone again.
>It starts with a key.
>It purrs like a kitten.
>
>Now I just need to learn everything else about it, particularly in regards
>to keeping all the parts I was born with attached. Anyone know of any good
>books available that cover these saws or have any personal advice they want
>to share?
>
>I believe the saw is from around 1959, it came with some accessories, most
>original and new in the box. If anyone's intersted I can post some pictures
>in abpw.
Don't listen to chicken littles about the RAS. It's as safe as any
other powered, toothed implement in your shop. Operator stupidity,
now; that's another matter.
However, get the book by Wally Kunkel ("Mr. Sawdust") at
http://www.mrsawdust.com. It's focus is on Dewalt RAS' and their
structure, but much of the material is useful to any RAS owner.
$29.95, but worth it. You'll certainly get something out of it.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
Everything I did in my 1st 10 years of woodworking was done on the RAS
and a wood lathe. I suspended my hobby for about 20 yrs. Started up
about 8 yrs ago and bought a jointer, planer, table saw, bandsaw, belt
sander, etc, etc. Having these in ADDITION to my RAS speeds things up
considerably. The RAS did everything that these do but it took a lot
longer because it was my equivalent of a Shopsmith.
I now use it for all my crosscut work over about 20 inches. Otherwise,
I use my Unisaw. I don't cut at angles any more. It is accurate if
you don't move it from square. If I want to cut 2 x 4's or similar
sizes, I usually use my miter saw. It maintains accuracy when adjusted
to angles. Tools are a real bargan today in comparison to 30 or more
years ago.
[email protected] wrote:
> I'd like to see pictures!
>
> Tom
"Unquestionably Confused" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Rumpty wrote:
> >>If the depth of the dado needs to be accurate, the table saw is a better
> >
> > choice.
> >
> > Depth functions on a "DeWalt/OSC" RAS are as accurate as any TS. You
just
> > gotta know how to make proper depth adjustments.
>
> As with any saw, initial set up is critical. With the RAS once the time
> and effort are taken to insure that the table and fence are properly set
> up, even my old Craftsman will provide a uniform cutting depth. Of
> course, if you don't do it right to begin with or have junion out in the
> shop sitting or jumping on the carriage arm, your mileage may vary.
There's one additional requirement for uniform depth of a dado cut: the top
face of the stock being cut must be parallel to the bottom face. If these
two surfaces are parallel, then a properly-tuned RAS /can/ produce results
as good as those produced by a TS.
However, it's probably worth pointing out that the table saw will provide a
uniform depth of cut without this requirement.
Any discussion of which tool best cuts a particular dado really needs to
first reach agreement as to which workpiece face is to be the reference
face.
--
Morris
I've got a RAS and find it to be very useful, and safe. I don't rip on it
only because I'm used to using my table saw for that. It allows me to cut
miters in an easier fashion than fidling with the miter gauge on the table
saw though. It's invaluable for cutting down stock to length when the
boards are long.
As for keeping it in adjustment, well I have a craftsman from around 1984
maybe and I set it up myself then. Today, not a single adjustment has
needed to be made and it still cuts dead on. Clean it up, plug it in, and
give a go!
Cheers,
cc
"Adam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I just bought a used but in beautiful shape old craftsman radial arm saw
> and here's what I've learned so far,
> It's heavy, I won't ever be moving it alone again.
> It starts with a key.
> It purrs like a kitten.
>
> Now I just need to learn everything else about it, particularly in regards
> to keeping all the parts I was born with attached. Anyone know of any good
> books available that cover these saws or have any personal advice they
> want
> to share?
>
> I believe the saw is from around 1959, it came with some accessories, most
> original and new in the box. If anyone's intersted I can post some
> pictures
> in abpw.
>
> Thanks for taking the time to read this,
> Adam
Why do you say that, Grant? I've had no problem with accuracy on my
Unisaw with rips, crosscuts, dados, whatever.
Dave
Grant P. Beagles wrote:
> It is sure more accurate for cutting dados in bookcase sides than a TS sled!
>
> Grant
>
>
>
> Doug Miller wrote:
>
>
>>In article <[email protected]>, David <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>ah, yeah...ok...well at least you kept the ball in play. :)
>>>
>>>Doug?
>>
>>No disagreement here on most of it... but I'd like to see an explanation of
>>the "more accurate" comment. I don't think so... but it could be that Rumpty
>>can teach me a few things about setting up a RAS.
>>
>>>Dave
>>>
>>>Rumpty wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Naw, I don't argue, the RAS is more accurate, easier to use, safer, can do
>>>>more, but I'm not going to argue.
>>
>>--
>>Regards,
>> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>>
>>Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
>>And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
>
>
A RAS has the good behavior to sit quietly (most of the time) in one place,
along the wall just waiting to be used. A table saw in use requires enough
space, on both sides of the blade (leading and trailing), for the workpiece
to be pushed through. My Dad was a cabinetmaker for 40 years; his shop was
laid out all around the TS, but it was about 30'x120'. I can't make the
same commitment of floor space in my double garage, so I use a RAS. A lot
of the rips I need to make are less than 30" long, so I use an auxilliary
fence parallel to the blade travel. Clamped to the normal fence it gives a
reliable reference that allows me to rip with the RAS used in its normal
crosscut fashion. As I usually have it set up, I get about 16" of travel;
by flipping the piece and cutting from each end I can make a safe, accurate
cut about 32" long. When that isn't long enough, I usually use the bandsaw
or a circular saw.
Steve
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 09:25:22 -0400, Robatoy <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In the hands of a stupid, careless moron, the RAS is an extremely
>dangerous piece of shit. Period. Much more so than a TS.
Never seen a hole in a concrete wall behind a tablesaw? I've been
lucky enough to not have one (a hole in the wall, that is) in my shop,
but I've seen a few. They're all dangerous, so it's the operator's
responsibility to use caution. Otherwise, we may as well all wrap
ourselves in bubblewrap and take up knitting (with dull needles, of
course)
And of course, if a stupid, careless moron is using a tool in a
stupid, careless way, they'll learn the hard way. Can't save
everyone, ya know.
In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
>[snipped]
>> >The guys who crosses-over a left hand to the right of the blade to hold
>> >a small piece and run the blade with their right hand towards their arm.
>>
>> Stupid. Very stupid. But not the fault of the tool.
>
>*sigh* That was my point. Now try THAT move with a table saw.
Not relevant. It's a stupid thing to do. You can make similar stupid moves on
a table saw. So what? That doesn't mean that radial arm saws are dangerous. It
means that stupidity is dangerous.
[snip]
>> SawStop aside, please explain how the safety aspect does *not* rest
entirely
>> on the operator with a table saw. Or with a band saw. Or with any other tool,
>> for that matter.
>
>I'd be arguing against my own position. Why would I do that?
Perhaps then you could explain what you meant, when you said that the safety
of a RAS rests entirely with the operator.
>Have you read ANYHING I wrote?
Indeed I have. Have you? You've been insisting that radial arm saws are
dangerous, and, by implication, more so than other tools. This is a position
based more on prejudice than on evidence.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
Doug Miller wrote:
...
> There isn't any disputing the *fact* that the teeth on the leading edge of an
> RAS and a TS move the same direction: down.
...
Only if you're climb-cutting while ripping on a RAS and that <is>
dangerous!
When ripping on a RAS, to feed against the rotation direction, the
leading teeth are rotating upwards...
While I use a RAS a fair amount including ripping, it definitely
requires setting the blade guard correctly to serve as the holddown
while ripping...
It is sure more accurate for cutting dados in bookcase sides than a TS sled!
Grant
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, David <[email protected]> wrote:
> >ah, yeah...ok...well at least you kept the ball in play. :)
> >
> >Doug?
>
> No disagreement here on most of it... but I'd like to see an explanation of
> the "more accurate" comment. I don't think so... but it could be that Rumpty
> can teach me a few things about setting up a RAS.
> >
> >Dave
> >
> >Rumpty wrote:
> >
> >> Naw, I don't argue, the RAS is more accurate, easier to use, safer, can do
> >> more, but I'm not going to argue.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
> And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> In article <[email protected]>, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >When ripping, yes.
>
> True - and that's part of the reason that ripping is better done on a table
> saw.
Well, I personally think it matters not a whig as long as one has either
set up properly...I choose to rip on thr RAS precisely <because> I have
it set up such that it is the most convenient tool for the job in my
shop arrangement...
imo, ymmv, $0.02, etc., ...
"Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 00:26:21 GMT, Adam
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Now I just need to learn everything else about it, particularly in
regards
> >to keeping all the parts I was born with attached. Anyone know of any
good
> >books available that cover these saws or have any personal advice they
want
> >to share?
>
> Keep your thumb outta the way, and you should be fine. :)
>
That's the one. Too many stupid people put their hand where the blade's
going.
Mine's been with me thirty years - Montgomery Ward - and I didn't get it
new. You check the sets prior to cutting, just as you do your table saw,
and it shouldn't be a problem. Every RAS is capable of holding a setting,
the rub is how long.
If God had meant for us to rip on a RAS, he'd never have given us the
tablesaw.
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I think that we need to develop genetic testing. Find the gene that causes
> all these power tool accidents. And then ban everyone who posseses these
> genes from ever owning or operating a power tool of any kind. How is that
> for a new safety measure?
>
It's "multiple-cut mesmerization" to me. The ones I've gone on have almost
always been, with the RAS, cutting multiple pieces to length and forgetting
how wide their palm was. With tablesaws, accidents are more frequent, but
usually involve forgetting where their fingers were when ripping multiple
pieces.
My personal worst, to date, was my bandsaw. Turn the saw off, start to
brush dust away. SHEESH! Lucky I can still bend that knuckle.
Now chainsaw accidents, on the other hand - or should I say foot, because
that's been most common, are really grisly....
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and
> >towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using
> >a radial arm saw.
>
> Sorry, but you're wrong. In *both* cases, the teeth on the leading edge of
the
> blade are moving *down* and thus exerting a downward force on the wood.
> >
HUH????????
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "George" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> >> >In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and
> >> >towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using
> >> >a radial arm saw.
> >>
> >> Sorry, but you're wrong. In *both* cases, the teeth on the leading edge
of
> >the
> >> blade are moving *down* and thus exerting a downward force on the wood.
> >> >
> >
> >HUH????????
>
> What, do you think the teeth on an RAS spin *up* at the front?
>
YEP. The proper procedure for ripping on every RAS I've seen is into the
climbing teeth. Read the manual. If you've got one that's different, a lot
of us would like to know. It's one reason why folks don't do it much if they
have an alternative. The guard can be rotated forward to limit the lift on
some (those with anti-kickback pawls), but the modern ones benefit more from
a featherboard clamped to the fence, because they've got the semicircular
blade guards.
Speaking of the fence, it is another reason why ripping on the RAS, even if
you move it out from the wall to get better position, can be a bit
troublesome. Too many people don't keep an uncut piece of slick-faced
whatever available to reference. The cuts can trap the board due to a bit
of misalignment, or catch a splinter, stopping the feed. Very frustrating.
Also a temptation to unsafe reaching or forcing....
"Rumpty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >If the depth of the dado needs to be accurate, the table saw is a better
> choice.
>
> Depth functions on a "DeWalt/OSC" RAS are as accurate as any TS. You just
> gotta know how to make proper depth adjustments.
>
> --
From the hip?
His post indicates the reality that depth of dado is determined by the face
from which it's referenced. RAS gives consistent remainder, table or
router, referencing as they do to the opposite face, give consistent depth.
Robatoy wrote:
> In the hands of a stupid, careless moron, the RAS is an extremely
> dangerous piece of shit. Period. Much more so than a TS.
You've just never met my wife's step father. He can turn *any* tool -
power or not - into something lethal.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> Adam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Now I just need to learn everything else about it, particularly in regards
>> to keeping all the parts I was born with attached.
>
>RAS's are a nasty piece of gear. A blade with sharp teeth at 3500 RPM is
>not only dangerous as is..but now we're hanging that on a little
>carriage?!?!?!
I'm always mystified at the prejudice displayed toward RASs by those who have
never owned and rarely used one.
Radial arm saws are WAAAAAY safer than table saws. When operating the RAS, one
hand is *always* on the handle of the saw and it is therefore impossible to
amputate that hand or any of its digits - and to keep the other hand safe, all
you have to do it put it someplace that isn't in the path of the blade, and
keep it there.
Kickback is a rare event, and if it occurs, the workpiece is thrown *away*
from the operator, not *toward* him as with a TS.
Crosscutting long boards on a table saw is insane by comparison with doing the
same on a radial arm saw.
Ripping looks scary... but think about it - there's less blade exposed during
rip operations on a RAS than on a TS (assuming you haven't done something
stupid like removing the guard).
I know I'm coming perilously close to violating the Usenet Prime Directive by
attempting to inject a dose of reality into a discussion, but, please, let's
at least attempt to be a little bit objective here.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
This is supposedly some good info on RAS's. I dont have one but hope to get
my dad's old saw some day.
http://www.wired-2-shop.com/joneakes/ProductDetail.asp?ProdID=3&nPrdImageID=&CatID=3
Darrell
"Adam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I just bought a used but in beautiful shape old craftsman radial arm saw
> and here's what I've learned so far,
> It's heavy, I won't ever be moving it alone again.
> It starts with a key.
> It purrs like a kitten.
>
> Now I just need to learn everything else about it, particularly in regards
> to keeping all the parts I was born with attached. Anyone know of any good
> books available that cover these saws or have any personal advice they
> want
> to share?
>
> I believe the saw is from around 1959, it came with some accessories, most
> original and new in the box. If anyone's intersted I can post some
> pictures
> in abpw.
>
> Thanks for taking the time to read this,
> Adam
Let me ask you something, Steve: are the rips good enough for glue ups?
I couldn't get a quality rip from my old Sears TS, but my Unisaw with
WWII lets me rip as smooth as a baby's butt and straight as an arrow.
Dave
Steve Peterson wrote:
> A RAS has the good behavior to sit quietly (most of the time) in one place,
> along the wall just waiting to be used. A table saw in use requires enough
> space, on both sides of the blade (leading and trailing), for the workpiece
> to be pushed through. My Dad was a cabinetmaker for 40 years; his shop was
> laid out all around the TS, but it was about 30'x120'. I can't make the
> same commitment of floor space in my double garage, so I use a RAS. A lot
> of the rips I need to make are less than 30" long, so I use an auxilliary
> fence parallel to the blade travel. Clamped to the normal fence it gives a
> reliable reference that allows me to rip with the RAS used in its normal
> crosscut fashion. As I usually have it set up, I get about 16" of travel;
> by flipping the piece and cutting from each end I can make a safe, accurate
> cut about 32" long. When that isn't long enough, I usually use the bandsaw
> or a circular saw.
>
> Steve
>
>
In article <[email protected]>, Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:03:28 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>I'm always mystified at the prejudice displayed toward RASs by those who have
>>never owned and rarely used one.
>
>Well, I've owned three of them, used them a lot in the past, and I
>think they suck.
>>
>>Radial arm saws are WAAAAAY safer than table saws.
>
>An interesting claim but one not carefully supported by data.
>
>> When operating the RAS, one
>>hand is *always* on the handle of the saw and it is therefore impossible to
>>amputate that hand or any of its digits
>
>Are you suggesting that most table saw accidents result in double
>amputation?
Obviously not, and I can't even begin to imagine what you might have thought
you read that suggested that.
>
>>- and to keep the other hand safe, all
>>you have to do it put it someplace that isn't in the path of the blade, and
>>keep it there.
>
>Well, Golly Gee, isn't that the whole game with any tool?
Not quite. On other tools - tablesaws and shapers, for example - the cutter is
stationary, and one's hands move past it. The risk of moving the hand into the
cutter is obviously higher than on a tool such as the RAS, in which the cutter
moves in a straight line on a fixed and unchangeable path. All you gotta do to
avoid a hand injury is to put your hand somewhere that's not in that path, and
keep it put.
>>
>>Kickback is a rare event, and if it occurs, the workpiece is thrown *away*
>>from the operator, not *toward* him as with a TS.
>
>It is not the workpiece that must be feared but the whirling blade
>that self feeds towards the operator, perhaps not by intent, but
>surely by design.
Nonsense. The blade on an RAS is no more to be feared than that on a TS. The
blade is contained in a steel guard attached to the motor housing, which rides
on rails. Yes, it can move, but where it's gonna move isn't exactly a mystery.
>>
>>Crosscutting long boards on a table saw is insane by comparison with doing the
>>same on a radial arm saw.
>
>Are you not available to the joy and safety of cutting with a sled and
>outfeed table?
I am. I'm also well acquainted with the joy and safety of crosscutting long
and heavy boards without having to deal with their large moment of inertia.
>>Ripping looks scary... but think about it - there's less blade exposed during
>>rip operations on a RAS than on a TS (assuming you haven't done something
>>stupid like removing the guard).
>
>In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and
>towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using
>a radial arm saw.
Sorry, but you're wrong. In *both* cases, the teeth on the leading edge of the
blade are moving *down* and thus exerting a downward force on the wood.
>
>In what way do you think that having the work directed away from the
>table is more safe than having it inherently directed towards it?
I don't think that for a moment. But as I've pointed out, that's not what
happens on a RAS.
>
>>
>>I know I'm coming perilously close to violating the Usenet Prime Directive by
>>attempting to inject a dose of reality into a discussion
>
>Not so far.
>
>>, but, please, let's
>>at least attempt to be a little bit objective here.
>
>
>I agree totally with Robatoy on this and I will be glad to tell you,
>in the spirit of objectivity, that you will never see one of these
>widowmaker pieces of shit in a professional shop, excepting the
>instances where it is dedicated to crosscutting, usually close to the
>lumber rack, so that it can buck things up into rough lengths. And
>that is only the case because they already owned the pig and did not
>want to sell it for scrap to have a down payment on a SCMS.
>
>Radial Arm Saws are the Swiss Army Knives of the amateur wooddorking
>world and suffer from the same affliction as their referent; they
>don't do anything well but are often asked to do many things poorly.
>
>If radial arm saws had a corkscrew, I might consider putting one back
>in my shop.
>
>I long ago traded a RAS, allegedly capable of cutting 25" in crosscut,
>for a 12" SCMS. The reason was that what was alleged did not prove
>true, to a usable accurate degree, under daily use, and that work went
>back to the TS.
>
>
>A careful thinking about the geometry and stresses under load of a
>contraption such as the RAS would inevitably lead a thoughtful and
>prudent person to give theirs away to their dearest enemy.
Careful thinking about the geometry would also lead to correct conclusions
about the direction of the force exerted on the work by the blade.
It's quite clear that your position is, like Robatoy's, the result of
prejudice, and not of logic.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
In article <[email protected]>, David <[email protected]> wrote:
>ah, yeah...ok...well at least you kept the ball in play. :)
>
>Doug?
No disagreement here on most of it... but I'd like to see an explanation of
the "more accurate" comment. I don't think so... but it could be that Rumpty
can teach me a few things about setting up a RAS.
>
>Dave
>
>Rumpty wrote:
>
>> Naw, I don't argue, the RAS is more accurate, easier to use, safer, can do
>> more, but I'm not going to argue.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:43:29 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>>>>>Ripping looks scary... but think about it - there's less blade exposed
>> during
>>>>>rip operations on a RAS than on a TS (assuming you haven't done something
>>>>>stupid like removing the guard).
>>>>
>>>>In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and
>>>>towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using
>>>>a radial arm saw.
>>>
>>>Sorry, but you're wrong. In *both* cases, the teeth on the leading edge of the
>>>blade are moving *down* and thus exerting a downward force on the wood.
Would you care to rethink that statement?
Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
>And under no circumstances should you use the RAS table as a work bench.
I have been known to stand on mine, BUT I have a 2 ply, ply top with steel
reinforcing and it does not move.
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"jo4hn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Rumpty wrote:
>
> >>If the depth of the dado needs to be accurate, the table saw is a better
> >
> > choice.
> >
> > Depth functions on a "DeWalt/OSC" RAS are as accurate as any TS. You
just
> > gotta know how to make proper depth adjustments.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Rumpty
> >
> > Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
> >
> [snip]
> And under no circumstances should you use the RAS table as a work bench.
> Or as storage for heavy stuff. Or as a seat for a tired butt.
> Obvious but not always.
> DAMHIKT,
> jo4hn
>I was hoping the second post was going to correct "dribble" to drivel.
I looked in my "How To Master The Radial Saw" by Walley Kunkel
http://mrsawdust.com to check for correct spelling but I spilled coffee on
that page and couldn't read it.
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"LRod" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:29:00 -0400, "Rumpty" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
> >
> >(psst......I know it's a repeated post)
>
> I was hoping the second post was going to correct "dribble" to drivel.
>
> --
> LRod
>
> Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
>
> Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
>
> http://www.woodbutcher.net
>
> Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:08:05 GMT, Unquestionably Confused
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, "George" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>>In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and
>>>>>towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using
>>>>>a radial arm saw.
>>>>
>>>>Sorry, but you're wrong. In *both* cases, the teeth on the leading edge of
>>>
>>>the
>>>
>>>>blade are moving *down* and thus exerting a downward force on the wood.
>>>>
>>>HUH????????
>>
>>
>> What, do you think the teeth on an RAS spin *up* at the front?
>
>I, too, read that and wondered what the ....? Then I thought about it
>and must presume that George may be one of those who chooses to bring
>the RAS all the way out on the carriage and then push it back towards
>the fence with the board to be cut between the two.
>
>But then I REALLY re-read it and figured that if perhaps George is
>somehow doing a "reverse" RIP on a RAS, maybe he does have a valid point
>about the RAS behing inherently dangerous. Just like others have made
>the point that the only real danger is the stupidity of the operator.
>
They are talking about ripping on the RAS, not crosscutting. Usually
in ripping on a RAS you push the board into the blade from behind
where the blade is moving upward when it hits your board. Pushing a
board into the front of a RAS blade set in rip mode will possibily
cause the saw to grab the board and try to suck it into the blade.
This often results in either a stall on an underpowered Craftsman RAS
or "issues" with a more powerful RAS.
Dave Hall
I agree with you.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Radial arm saws are WAAAAAY safer than table saws. When operating the RAS,
one
> hand is *always* on the handle of the saw and it is therefore impossible
to
> amputate that hand or any of its digits - and to keep the other hand safe,
all
> you have to do it put it someplace that isn't in the path of the blade,
and
> keep it there.
>
> Kickback is a rare event, and if it occurs, the workpiece is thrown *away*
> from the operator, not *toward* him as with a TS.
>
> Crosscutting long boards on a table saw is insane by comparison with doing
the
> same on a radial arm saw.
>
> Ripping looks scary... but think about it - there's less blade exposed
during
> rip operations on a RAS than on a TS (assuming you haven't done something
> stupid like removing the guard).
>
> I know I'm coming perilously close to violating the Usenet Prime Directive
by
> attempting to inject a dose of reality into a discussion, but, please,
let's
> at least attempt to be a little bit objective here.
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
> And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
>
>> I know I'm coming perilously close to violating the Usenet Prime Directive by
>> attempting to inject a dose of reality into a discussion, but, please, let's
>> at least attempt to be a little bit objective here.
>
>I wasn't trying to get into a RAS vs TS safety discussion, Doug.
>Both can be very dangerous. To get into a pissing contest about which
>one is more dangerous, is futile.
>
>My message to the OP was:
>and I quote:
>"Be careful, Adam.... concentrate, focus and you'll be fine."
Not really. Your *entire* message to the OP was, and I quote:
"RAS's are a nasty piece of gear. A blade with sharp teeth at 3500 RPM is
not only dangerous as is..but now we're hanging that on a little
carriage?!?!?!
It's no secret that I thoroughly dislike the beasts.
Be careful, Adam.... concentrate, focus and you'll be fine."
Let's keep things in perspective. With even minimal attention to what
you're doing, it's almost impossible to hurt yourself with a RAS. It's *far*
safer than a TS for most operations.
So how does it qualify as "a nasty piece of gear"?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
Rumpty wrote:
>>If the depth of the dado needs to be accurate, the table saw is a better
>
> choice.
>
> Depth functions on a "DeWalt/OSC" RAS are as accurate as any TS. You just
> gotta know how to make proper depth adjustments.
As with any saw, initial set up is critical. With the RAS once the time
and effort are taken to insure that the table and fence are properly set
up, even my old Craftsman will provide a uniform cutting depth. Of
course, if you don't do it right to begin with or have junion out in the
shop sitting or jumping on the carriage arm, your mileage may vary.
In article <[email protected]>, Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 12:43:29 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>>>>>Ripping looks scary... but think about it - there's less blade exposed
>>> during
>>>>>>rip operations on a RAS than on a TS (assuming you haven't done something
>>>>>>stupid like removing the guard).
>>>>>
>>>>>In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and
>>>>>towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using
>>>>>a radial arm saw.
>>>>
>>>>Sorry, but you're wrong. In *both* cases, the teeth on the leading edge of
> the
>>>>blade are moving *down* and thus exerting a downward force on the wood.
>
>
>Would you care to rethink that statement?
Nope.
Expand on it, maybe... by pointing out that the principle use of a RAS is for
crosscuts, and inviting you to notice which direction the teeth are moving in
a crosscut.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
In article <[email protected]>, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
>When ripping, yes.
True - and that's part of the reason that ripping is better done on a table
saw.
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> What, do you think the teeth on an RAS spin *up* at the front?
>>
>
>
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
LOL!,...Well said,...and o-so-true!
Schroeder
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:03:28 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
In article <[email protected]>, "George" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> >In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and
>> >towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using
>> >a radial arm saw.
>>
>> Sorry, but you're wrong. In *both* cases, the teeth on the leading edge of
>the
>> blade are moving *down* and thus exerting a downward force on the wood.
>> >
>
>HUH????????
What, do you think the teeth on an RAS spin *up* at the front?
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
The best RAS you can buy is a "used" DeWalt here in the US or a new RAS from
"Original Saw Company" There are no other RAS's worth buying IMHO.
Join us to find out why: Radial Arm Saw Forum:
http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Kurt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > I don't understand what the big deal is with RAS. My first big tool
> > was a RAS (which in hindsight was a mistake).
>
> <snip>
>
> Since an RAS is in the list of possible first fixed saws I've been
> thinking about, could you please elaborate on this? Thanks.
>
> Kurt
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>....
>> There isn't any disputing the *fact* that the teeth on the leading edge of an
>> RAS and a TS move the same direction: down.
>....
>
>Only if you're climb-cutting while ripping on a RAS
or cross-cutting, which is the principal use of the tool
>and that <is>
>dangerous!
I won't dispute that.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
I've never seen you shy away from a RAS argument before. C'mon...go for it.
Dave
Rumpty wrote:
>>Rumpty may take issue with this, but IMO they are *not* as accurate as a
>
> table saw.
>
> I'm not getting in the middle of this.....
>
> --
>
> Rumpty
>
> Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>You've been insisting that radial arm saws are
>>>>dangerous, and, by implication, more so than other tools. This is a
>
> position
>
>>>>based more on prejudice than on evidence.
>>>
>>>What my opinion is based on is personal experience. I feel way more
>>>comfortable with a table saw than with a radial arm saw.
>>
>>That's not the same as the inherent safety (or lack thereof) of the tool.
>>
>>>I'm just not big on whirling blades on the end of wobbly little
>>>carriages dangling from floppy arms.
>>
>>Neither am I. If my RAS had a wobbly carriage and a floppy arm, I'd either
>
> fix
>
>>it, or replace it with one that was more solid.
>>
>>>I don't like the concept, lack of accuracy, and inherent danger of a
>>>radial arm saw. I think the whole machine is an answer to the question
>>>nobody asked.
>>
>>"Concept" is a matter of opinion, and I won't argue with you over that. We
>
> can
>
>>agree to disagree there.
>>
>>"Lack of accuracy" I won't argue with, either. Rumpty may take issue with
>>this, but IMO they are *not* as accurate as a table saw. And they're more
>>difficult to set accurately, too.
>>
>>"Inherent danger" is where you jump off the cliff. Operated with the
>
> proper
>
>>care, a RAS is no more dangerous than a TS (and IMO safer for most
>>operations).
>>
>>--
>>Regards,
>> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>>
>>Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
>>And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
>
>
>
>If the depth of the dado needs to be accurate, the table saw is a better
choice.
Depth functions on a "DeWalt/OSC" RAS are as accurate as any TS. You just
gotta know how to make proper depth adjustments.
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> David <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Why do you say that, Grant? I've had no problem with accuracy on my
> > Unisaw with rips, crosscuts, dados, whatever.
> >
>
> If the depth of the dado needs to be accurate, the table saw is a better
> choice.
> If the thickness between the bottom of the dado and the outside wall of
> the panel is important, the RAS would be a better choice.
> IOW..of making gangs of bookcases out of irregular thickness plywood (as
> I have for the local library system) The RAS will give a much more
> predictable outcome.
> You can accurately regulate the length of the shelves and the dado depth
> will vary with the thickness of the plywood.
Robatoy wrote:
> RAS's are a nasty piece of gear. A blade with sharp teeth at 3500 RPM is
> not only dangerous as is..but now we're hanging that on a little
> carriage?!?!?!
> It's no secret that I thoroughly dislike the beasts.
I don't understand what the big deal is with RAS. My first big tool was a RAS
(which in hindsight was a mistake). The only operation I didn't think was safe
was ripping. Everything else was fine with normal care being taken.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
[email protected]
In article <[email protected]>, Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 01:48:49 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>
>>In article <[email protected]>, Tom Watson
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:03:28 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm always mystified at the prejudice displayed toward RASs by those who
> have
>>>>never owned and rarely used one.
>>>
>>>Well, I've owned three of them, used them a lot in the past, and I
>>>think they suck.
>
>Strike One.
So you don't like them. Fine. That does not prove they're unsafe.
>
>>>>
>>>>Radial arm saws are WAAAAAY safer than table saws.
>>>
>>>An interesting claim but one not carefully supported by data.
>
>Strike Two.
Neither can you produce data showing otherwise.
>
>>>
>>>> When operating the RAS, one
>>>>hand is *always* on the handle of the saw and it is therefore impossible to
>>>>amputate that hand or any of its digits
>>>
>>>Are you suggesting that most table saw accidents result in double
>>>amputation?
>>
>>Obviously not, and I can't even begin to imagine what you might have thought
>>you read that suggested that.
>
>Foul Ball.
Perhaps you'd care to explain how you managed to misunderstand what you
thought I wrote.
>>>
>>>>- and to keep the other hand safe, all
>>>>you have to do it put it someplace that isn't in the path of the blade, and
>>>>keep it there.
>>>
>>>Well, Golly Gee, isn't that the whole game with any tool?
>>
>>Not quite. On other tools - tablesaws and shapers, for example - the cutter is
>>stationary, and one's hands move past it. The risk of moving the hand into the
>>cutter is obviously higher than on a tool such as the RAS, in which the cutter
>>moves in a straight line on a fixed and unchangeable path. All you gotta do to
>>avoid a hand injury is to put your hand somewhere that's not in that path, and
>>keep it put.
>
>Another foul. This one tingled the hands a bit.
Apparently you disagree. Perhaps you'd be specific about the reasons.
>>>>
>>>>Kickback is a rare event, and if it occurs, the workpiece is thrown *away*
>>>>from the operator, not *toward* him as with a TS.
>>>
>>>It is not the workpiece that must be feared but the whirling blade
>>>that self feeds towards the operator, perhaps not by intent, but
>>>surely by design.
>>
>>Nonsense. The blade on an RAS is no more to be feared than that on a TS. The
>>blade is contained in a steel guard attached to the motor housing, which rides
>>on rails. Yes, it can move, but where it's gonna move isn't exactly a mystery.
>
>That one rode the corner. I'll call it a ball, just to keep the AB
>going.
IOW you know I'm right but you don't want to admit it.
>>>>
>>>>Crosscutting long boards on a table saw is insane by comparison with doing
> the
>>>>same on a radial arm saw.
>>>
>>>Are you not available to the joy and safety of cutting with a sled and
>>>outfeed table?
>>
>>I am. I'm also well acquainted with the joy and safety of crosscutting long
>>and heavy boards without having to deal with their large moment of inertia.
>
>OK. Ball Two.
I think that means "yes, you're right about that one."
>>
>>>>Ripping looks scary... but think about it - there's less blade exposed
> during
>>>>rip operations on a RAS than on a TS (assuming you haven't done something
>>>>stupid like removing the guard).
>>>
>>>In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and
>>>towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using
>>>a radial arm saw.
>>
>>Sorry, but you're wrong. In *both* cases, the teeth on the leading edge of the
>>blade are moving *down* and thus exerting a downward force on the wood.
>
>Strike Three. And that wasn't even a good junk pitch.
There isn't any disputing the *fact* that the teeth on the leading edge of an
RAS and a TS move the same direction: down.
>>>
>>>In what way do you think that having the work directed away from the
>>>table is more safe than having it inherently directed towards it?
>>
>>I don't think that for a moment. But as I've pointed out, that's not what
>>happens on a RAS.
>
>Don't argue with the ump.
The ump blew the call.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>I know I'm coming perilously close to violating the Usenet Prime Directive
> by
>>>>attempting to inject a dose of reality into a discussion
>>>
>>>Not so far.
>>>
>>>>, but, please, let's
>>>>at least attempt to be a little bit objective here.
>>>
>>>
>>>I agree totally with Robatoy on this and I will be glad to tell you,
>>>in the spirit of objectivity, that you will never see one of these
>>>widowmaker pieces of shit in a professional shop, excepting the
>>>instances where it is dedicated to crosscutting, usually close to the
>>>lumber rack, so that it can buck things up into rough lengths. And
>>>that is only the case because they already owned the pig and did not
>>>want to sell it for scrap to have a down payment on a SCMS.
>>>
>>>Radial Arm Saws are the Swiss Army Knives of the amateur wooddorking
>>>world and suffer from the same affliction as their referent; they
>>>don't do anything well but are often asked to do many things poorly.
>>>
>>>If radial arm saws had a corkscrew, I might consider putting one back
>>>in my shop.
>>>
>>>I long ago traded a RAS, allegedly capable of cutting 25" in crosscut,
>>>for a 12" SCMS. The reason was that what was alleged did not prove
>>>true, to a usable accurate degree, under daily use, and that work went
>>>back to the TS.
>>>
>>>
>>>A careful thinking about the geometry and stresses under load of a
>>>contraption such as the RAS would inevitably lead a thoughtful and
>>>prudent person to give theirs away to their dearest enemy.
>>
>>Careful thinking about the geometry would also lead to correct conclusions
>>about the direction of the force exerted on the work by the blade.
>>
>>It's quite clear that your position is, like Robatoy's, the result of
>>prejudice, and not of logic.
>
>Sigh. Off to the showers with ya.
>
>Don't despair, it's hard to come back from an 0-2 count.
Your persistent evasion demonstrates ever more clearly that your position is
the result of prejudice and not of logic.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
In article <[email protected]>, "George" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>, "George" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>> >> >In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and
>> >> >towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using
>> >> >a radial arm saw.
>> >>
>> >> Sorry, but you're wrong. In *both* cases, the teeth on the leading edge
>of
>> >the
>> >> blade are moving *down* and thus exerting a downward force on the wood.
>> >> >
>> >
>> >HUH????????
>>
>> What, do you think the teeth on an RAS spin *up* at the front?
>>
>YEP. The proper procedure for ripping on every RAS I've seen is into the
>climbing teeth. Read the manual. If you've got one that's different, a lot
>of us would like to know. It's one reason why folks don't do it much if they
>have an alternative. The guard can be rotated forward to limit the lift on
>some (those with anti-kickback pawls), but the modern ones benefit more from
>a featherboard clamped to the fence, because they've got the semicircular
>blade guards.
>
>Speaking of the fence, it is another reason why ripping on the RAS, even if
>you move it out from the wall to get better position, can be a bit
>troublesome. Too many people don't keep an uncut piece of slick-faced
>whatever available to reference. The cuts can trap the board due to a bit
>of misalignment, or catch a splinter, stopping the feed. Very frustrating.
>Also a temptation to unsafe reaching or forcing....
>
All of which shows why RASs are ill-suited to ripping. Their principle
purpose, for which they are very well suited, is crosscutting - where the
teeth at the leading edge spin down.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
So a friend of mine offered me a RAS, as he's got two sitting in his garage
(in pieces). I've got a tablesaw, a miter saw, but I'm thinking this saw
could still be a useful addition to my arsenal. Or am I dreaming? I was
thinking it would be as useful as having a crosscut sled set up, and useful
for cutting dado's and rabbets. Probably keep it at 90 degrees almost all
the time.
Clint
"Adam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I just bought a used but in beautiful shape old craftsman radial arm saw
> and here's what I've learned so far,
> It's heavy, I won't ever be moving it alone again.
> It starts with a key.
> It purrs like a kitten.
>
> Now I just need to learn everything else about it, particularly in regards
> to keeping all the parts I was born with attached. Anyone know of any good
> books available that cover these saws or have any personal advice they
> want
> to share?
>
> I believe the saw is from around 1959, it came with some accessories, most
> original and new in the box. If anyone's intersted I can post some
> pictures
> in abpw.
>
> Thanks for taking the time to read this,
> Adam
Dave Hall wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:08:05 GMT, Unquestionably Confused
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>
>>>In article <[email protected]>, "George" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and
>>>>>>towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using
>>>>>>a radial arm saw.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sorry, but you're wrong. In *both* cases, the teeth on the leading edge of
>>>>
>>>>the
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>blade are moving *down* and thus exerting a downward force on the wood.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>HUH????????
>>>
>>>
>>>What, do you think the teeth on an RAS spin *up* at the front?
>>
>>I, too, read that and wondered what the ....? Then I thought about it
>>and must presume that George may be one of those who chooses to bring
>>the RAS all the way out on the carriage and then push it back towards
>>the fence with the board to be cut between the two.
>>
>>But then I REALLY re-read it and figured that if perhaps George is
>>somehow doing a "reverse" RIP on a RAS, maybe he does have a valid point
>>about the RAS behing inherently dangerous. Just like others have made
>>the point that the only real danger is the stupidity of the operator.
>>
>
>
> They are talking about ripping on the RAS, not crosscutting. Usually
> in ripping on a RAS you push the board into the blade from behind
> where the blade is moving upward when it hits your board. Pushing a
> board into the front of a RAS blade set in rip mode will possibily
> cause the saw to grab the board and try to suck it into the blade.
> This often results in either a stall on an underpowered Craftsman RAS
> or "issues" with a more powerful RAS.
>
> Dave Hall
>
Trying to run a board in the wrong direction on a
rip cut would be pretty evident to any aware
person since the hold down and the kickback device
on the saw blade shield would obviously be backward.
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "George" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>>In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and
>>>>towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using
>>>>a radial arm saw.
>>>
>>>Sorry, but you're wrong. In *both* cases, the teeth on the leading edge of
>>
>>the
>>
>>>blade are moving *down* and thus exerting a downward force on the wood.
>>>
>>HUH????????
>
>
> What, do you think the teeth on an RAS spin *up* at the front?
I, too, read that and wondered what the ....? Then I thought about it
and must presume that George may be one of those who chooses to bring
the RAS all the way out on the carriage and then push it back towards
the fence with the board to be cut between the two.
But then I REALLY re-read it and figured that if perhaps George is
somehow doing a "reverse" RIP on a RAS, maybe he does have a valid point
about the RAS behing inherently dangerous. Just like others have made
the point that the only real danger is the stupidity of the operator.
Naw, I don't argue, the RAS is more accurate, easier to use, safer, can do
more, but I'm not going to argue.
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
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"David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I've never seen you shy away from a RAS argument before. C'mon...go for
it.
>
> Dave
>
> Rumpty wrote:
>
> >>Rumpty may take issue with this, but IMO they are *not* as accurate as
a
> >
> > table saw.
> >
> > I'm not getting in the middle of this.....
> >
> > --
> >
> > Rumpty
> >
> > Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >
> >
> > "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy
> >
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >>>In article <[email protected]>,
> >>>[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>You've been insisting that radial arm saws are
> >>>>dangerous, and, by implication, more so than other tools. This is a
> >
> > position
> >
> >>>>based more on prejudice than on evidence.
> >>>
> >>>What my opinion is based on is personal experience. I feel way more
> >>>comfortable with a table saw than with a radial arm saw.
> >>
> >>That's not the same as the inherent safety (or lack thereof) of the
tool.
> >>
> >>>I'm just not big on whirling blades on the end of wobbly little
> >>>carriages dangling from floppy arms.
> >>
> >>Neither am I. If my RAS had a wobbly carriage and a floppy arm, I'd
either
> >
> > fix
> >
> >>it, or replace it with one that was more solid.
> >>
> >>>I don't like the concept, lack of accuracy, and inherent danger of a
> >>>radial arm saw. I think the whole machine is an answer to the question
> >>>nobody asked.
> >>
> >>"Concept" is a matter of opinion, and I won't argue with you over that.
We
> >
> > can
> >
> >>agree to disagree there.
> >>
> >>"Lack of accuracy" I won't argue with, either. Rumpty may take issue
with
> >>this, but IMO they are *not* as accurate as a table saw. And they're
more
> >>difficult to set accurately, too.
> >>
> >>"Inherent danger" is where you jump off the cliff. Operated with the
> >
> > proper
> >
> >>care, a RAS is no more dangerous than a TS (and IMO safer for most
> >>operations).
> >>
> >>--
> >>Regards,
> >> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
> >>
> >>Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
> >>And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
> >
> >
> >
>but it could be that Rumpty can teach me a few things about setting up a
RAS.
A simple crosscut with the RAS on say a 6' board, pull the tape, mark your
point with your razor knife, slide it up to the fence's cut line and make
your cut. That mark made with your razor knife is split down the middle,
dead on accurate! All made within 10 seconds or so. Do the same with your
TS or CSMS.........
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
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"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, David <[email protected]>
wrote:
> >ah, yeah...ok...well at least you kept the ball in play. :)
> >
> >Doug?
>
> No disagreement here on most of it... but I'd like to see an explanation
of
> the "more accurate" comment. I don't think so... but it could be that
Rumpty
> can teach me a few things about setting up a RAS.
> >
> >Dave
> >
> >Rumpty wrote:
> >
> >> Naw, I don't argue, the RAS is more accurate, easier to use, safer, can
do
> >> more, but I'm not going to argue.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
> And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message =
news:[email protected]...
| On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:03:28 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
| wrote:
|=20
| >I'm always mystified at the prejudice displayed toward RASs by those =
who have=20
| >never owned and rarely used one.
|=20
| Well, I've owned three of them, used them a lot in the past, and I
| think they suck.
| >
| >Radial arm saws are WAAAAAY safer than table saws.
|=20
| An interesting claim but one not carefully supported by data.
|=20
| > When operating the RAS, one=20
| >hand is *always* on the handle of the saw and it is therefore =
impossible to=20
| >amputate that hand or any of its digits
|=20
| Are you suggesting that most table saw accidents result in double
| amputation?
|=20
| >- and to keep the other hand safe, all=20
| >you have to do it put it someplace that isn't in the path of the =
blade, and=20
| >keep it there.
|=20
| Well, Golly Gee, isn't that the whole game with any tool?
| >
| >Kickback is a rare event, and if it occurs, the workpiece is thrown =
*away*=20
| >from the operator, not *toward* him as with a TS.
|=20
| It is not the workpiece that must be feared but the whirling blade
| that self feeds towards the operator, perhaps not by intent, but
| surely by design.
| >
| >Crosscutting long boards on a table saw is insane by comparison with =
doing the=20
| >same on a radial arm saw.
|=20
| Are you not available to the joy and safety of cutting with a sled and
| outfeed table?
| >
| >Ripping looks scary... but think about it - there's less blade =
exposed during=20
| >rip operations on a RAS than on a TS (assuming you haven't done =
something=20
| >stupid like removing the guard).
|=20
| In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and
| towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using
| a radial arm saw.
|=20
| In what way do you think that having the work directed away from the
| table is more safe than having it inherently directed towards it?
|=20
| >
| >I know I'm coming perilously close to violating the Usenet Prime =
Directive by=20
| >attempting to inject a dose of reality into a discussion
|=20
| Not so far.
|=20
| >, but, please, let's=20
| >at least attempt to be a little bit objective here.
|=20
|=20
| I agree totally with Robatoy on this and I will be glad to tell you,
| in the spirit of objectivity, that you will never see one of these
| widowmaker pieces of shit in a professional shop, excepting the
| instances where it is dedicated to crosscutting, usually close to the
| lumber rack, so that it can buck things up into rough lengths. And
| that is only the case because they already owned the pig and did not
| want to sell it for scrap to have a down payment on a SCMS.
|=20
| Radial Arm Saws are the Swiss Army Knives of the amateur wooddorking
| world and suffer from the same affliction as their referent; they
| don't do anything well but are often asked to do many things poorly.
|=20
| If radial arm saws had a corkscrew, I might consider putting one back
| in my shop.
|=20
| I long ago traded a RAS, allegedly capable of cutting 25" in crosscut,
| for a 12" SCMS. The reason was that what was alleged did not prove
| true, to a usable accurate degree, under daily use, and that work went
| back to the TS.
|=20
|=20
| A careful thinking about the geometry and stresses under load of a
| contraption such as the RAS would inevitably lead a thoughtful and
| prudent person to give theirs away to their dearest enemy.
|=20
|=20
|=20
|=20
|=20
|=20
| Tom Watson - WoodDorker
| tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
| http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
Being as objective as one can, I must honestly declare that I have both =
in my shop. I started with a RAS and added a "cabinet" saw shortly =
after I discovered the thrill(?) of a RAS RIP. I later added a slider.
Anyone in the London ON area like a really good, hardly used RAS?
--=20
PDQ
I have had mine for about 6 years and I realy like it. However I don't use
it on a daily basis it comes in very handy.
"Clint" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Ugsre.54264$HI.23677@edtnps84...
> So a friend of mine offered me a RAS, as he's got two sitting in his
garage
> (in pieces). I've got a tablesaw, a miter saw, but I'm thinking this saw
> could still be a useful addition to my arsenal. Or am I dreaming? I was
> thinking it would be as useful as having a crosscut sled set up, and
useful
> for cutting dado's and rabbets. Probably keep it at 90 degrees almost all
> the time.
>
> Clint
>
> "Adam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >I just bought a used but in beautiful shape old craftsman radial arm saw
> > and here's what I've learned so far,
> > It's heavy, I won't ever be moving it alone again.
> > It starts with a key.
> > It purrs like a kitten.
> >
> > Now I just need to learn everything else about it, particularly in
regards
> > to keeping all the parts I was born with attached. Anyone know of any
good
> > books available that cover these saws or have any personal advice they
> > want
> > to share?
> >
> > I believe the saw is from around 1959, it came with some accessories,
most
> > original and new in the box. If anyone's intersted I can post some
> > pictures
> > in abpw.
> >
> > Thanks for taking the time to read this,
> > Adam
>
>
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
>
>> I know I'm coming perilously close to violating the Usenet Prime
>> Directive by attempting to inject a dose of reality into a
>> discussion, but, please, let's at least attempt to be a little bit
>> objective here.
>
> I wasn't trying to get into a RAS vs TS safety discussion, Doug.
> Both can be very dangerous. To get into a pissing contest about which
> one is more dangerous, is futile.
>
> My message to the OP was:
> and I quote:
> "Be careful, Adam.... concentrate, focus and you'll be fine."
>
> *I* don't like RAS's...and used plenty of them for many years.
>
Thanks for the advice & opinions everyone (the book will be a definite
purchase Darrell).
The part about the RAS that makes me nervous is that it's just a
different operation than I'm used to - with a circular saw I'm moving
the blade away from me, with a table saw I'm moving the workpiece over a
stationary blade while the RAS has a blade moving towards me. I guess
everyone has certain operations they're more comfortable with on various
equipment.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not starting out prejudiced against the RAS (I
wouldn't have bought it if that was the case) I just don't have any
experience with them and there are alot of folks in this group with an
impressive amount of experience (& opinions lol).
Thanks again everyone for taking the time to reply,
Adam
[email protected] wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Everything I did in my 1st 10 years of woodworking was done on the RAS
> and a wood lathe. I suspended my hobby for about 20 yrs. Started up
> about 8 yrs ago and bought a jointer, planer, table saw, bandsaw, belt
> sander, etc, etc. Having these in ADDITION to my RAS speeds things up
> considerably. The RAS did everything that these do but it took a lot
> longer because it was my equivalent of a Shopsmith.
>
> I now use it for all my crosscut work over about 20 inches.
> Otherwise, I use my Unisaw. I don't cut at angles any more. It is
> accurate if you don't move it from square. If I want to cut 2 x 4's or
> similar sizes, I usually use my miter saw. It maintains accuracy when
> adjusted to angles. Tools are a real bargan today in comparison to 30
> or more years ago.
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>> I'd like to see pictures!
>>
>> Tom
>
It looks like I'll need to use the RAS to build another bookcase, Thanks
for the links to the literature folks, & thanks for the link to the
forum Rumpty - I'll be spending alot of time going through the postings
there.
I'm having trouble posting pictures Tom, I haven't done it in awhile and
seem to have forgotten how Xnews works.
I spent some time today running through some scrap with the saw & trying
out the blades that came with it. It's definitely a new experience but
so was everything else at one point.
Again, to everyone who responded I appreciate it (I didn't mean to cause
any disagreements with the original post, sorry about that).
Adam
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I don't understand what the big deal is with RAS. My first big tool
> was a RAS (which in hindsight was a mistake).
<snip>
Since an RAS is in the list of possible first fixed saws I've been
thinking about, could you please elaborate on this? Thanks.
Kurt
Been using mine painlessly for 30+ years!
With a long table, it rips far more easily than a TS, except for very small
stuff.
I usually stop the cut when I get near the end and go around to the outfeed
side to pull the final bit through. When I can, I get a wife or kid to do
the final pull. I've done lots of 8-20 ft rips in rough 2X lumber with no
problem.
When I was building my house, the saw was far from the power source, so I
put it on 240V and fed it with 12ga Romex to prevent sag. Worked fine. If
you have serious heavy ripping to do, get a 20-24 tooth blade.
That said, I DO NOT like the molding head rig, although I have used it with
success.
Wilson
"George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Prometheus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 00:26:21 GMT, Adam
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >Now I just need to learn everything else about it, particularly in
> regards
>> >to keeping all the parts I was born with attached. Anyone know of any
> good
>> >books available that cover these saws or have any personal advice they
> want
>> >to share?
>>
>> Keep your thumb outta the way, and you should be fine. :)
>>
>
> That's the one. Too many stupid people put their hand where the blade's
> going.
>
> Mine's been with me thirty years - Montgomery Ward - and I didn't get it
> new. You check the sets prior to cutting, just as you do your table saw,
> and it shouldn't be a problem. Every RAS is capable of holding a setting,
> the rub is how long.
>
> If God had meant for us to rip on a RAS, he'd never have given us the
> tablesaw.
>
>
Lee Michaels wrote:
> I think that we need to develop genetic testing. Find the gene that
> causes all these power tool accidents. And then ban everyone who
> posseses these genes from ever owning or operating a power tool of
> any kind. How is that for a new safety measure?
Add removing the ability to procreate and I'm with you.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
> The only way I see a tablesaw better for ripping the usual
stuff (under twelve inches wide) is the table not being as smooth and nice
on the RAS.
Granted, considering some of the crap tables supplied by the various
manufacturers including B&D's DeWalt models. BUT....change that table to a
2 ply 3/4" plywood/MDF table (total 1 1/2" thick) with steel reinforcing
strips you have a table (aka as a "Mr Sawdust" table) that's dead flat and
as nice as any TS. What I do like about using a wood table is that it does
have a bit of friction to it which makes ripping/shaping a bit safer than
say slick piece if cast iron.
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
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"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Though I now have a table saw and haven't used a RAS in some years, I have
> ripped plenty on them. It is no problem and I never saw it as any more
> dangerous than on a table saw. Longer push sticks are mandatory. Never get
> inside the frame. The only way I see a tablesaw better for ripping the
usual
> stuff (under twelve inches wide) is the table not being as smooth and nice
> on the RAS.
>
> "Rumpty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > >Neither is a RAS the best tool for ripping.
> >
> > Tsk tsk tsk, not nice to lie!
> >
> > --
> >
> > Rumpty
> >
> > Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >
> >
> > "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > In article <[email protected]>,
> Unquestionably
> > Confused <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >Doug Miller wrote:
> > > >> In article <[email protected]>, "George"
> > <[email protected]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > >>>news:[email protected]...
> > > >>>>[Tom Watson wrote:]
> > > >>>>>In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down
> and
> > > >>>>>towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when
> using
> > > >>>>>a radial arm saw.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>Sorry, but you're wrong. In *both* cases, the teeth on the leading
> > edge of
> > > >>>>the blade are moving *down* and thus exerting a downward force on
> the
> > wood.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>HUH????????
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> What, do you think the teeth on an RAS spin *up* at the front?
> > > >
> > > >I, too, read that and wondered what the ....? Then I thought about
it
> > > >and must presume that George may be one of those who chooses to bring
> > > >the RAS all the way out on the carriage and then push it back towards
> > > >the fence with the board to be cut between the two.
> > >
> > > Perhaps attempting to use a radial arm saw in that manner explains the
> > blind,
> > > unreasoning, panicky shouts of "Unsafe! Unsafe!"
> > >
> > > It *is* unsafe when used like that. *Any* tool is, or can be, unsafe
> when
> > used
> > > incorrectly. And again, we're back to the operator making the
> difference,
> > not
> > > the tool.
> > >
> > > >But then I REALLY re-read it and figured that if perhaps George is
> > > >somehow doing a "reverse" RIP on a RAS, maybe he does have a valid
> point
> > > >about the RAS behing inherently dangerous. Just like others have
made
> > > >the point that the only real danger is the stupidity of the operator.
> > >
> > > No, that would *not* in *any* way be "a valid point about the RAS
being
> > > inherently dangerous" - that would be a demonstration that using a
tool
> > > incorrectly is inherently dangerous.
> > >
> > > Now, on a "normal" rip on a RAS, the teeth at the leading edge *are*
> > moving
> > > up... but ripping is not the normal mode of use for a RAS.
Crosscutting
> > is.
> > > And when crosscutting, the teeth at the leading edge are moving
*down*,
> > and
> > > exerting a *downward* force on the workpiece. Despite what George and
> Tom
> > > think.
> > >
> > > Neither is a RAS the best tool for ripping. That would be a TS.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Regards,
> > > Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
> > >
> > > Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his
butt.
> > > And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
> >
> >
>
>
Though I now have a table saw and haven't used a RAS in some years, I have
ripped plenty on them. It is no problem and I never saw it as any more
dangerous than on a table saw. Longer push sticks are mandatory. Never get
inside the frame. The only way I see a tablesaw better for ripping the usual
stuff (under twelve inches wide) is the table not being as smooth and nice
on the RAS.
"Rumpty" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Neither is a RAS the best tool for ripping.
>
> Tsk tsk tsk, not nice to lie!
>
> --
>
> Rumpty
>
> Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
Unquestionably
> Confused <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >Doug Miller wrote:
> > >> In article <[email protected]>, "George"
> <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >>>news:[email protected]...
> > >>>>[Tom Watson wrote:]
> > >>>>>In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down
and
> > >>>>>towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when
using
> > >>>>>a radial arm saw.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Sorry, but you're wrong. In *both* cases, the teeth on the leading
> edge of
> > >>>>the blade are moving *down* and thus exerting a downward force on
the
> wood.
> > >>>>
> > >>>HUH????????
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> What, do you think the teeth on an RAS spin *up* at the front?
> > >
> > >I, too, read that and wondered what the ....? Then I thought about it
> > >and must presume that George may be one of those who chooses to bring
> > >the RAS all the way out on the carriage and then push it back towards
> > >the fence with the board to be cut between the two.
> >
> > Perhaps attempting to use a radial arm saw in that manner explains the
> blind,
> > unreasoning, panicky shouts of "Unsafe! Unsafe!"
> >
> > It *is* unsafe when used like that. *Any* tool is, or can be, unsafe
when
> used
> > incorrectly. And again, we're back to the operator making the
difference,
> not
> > the tool.
> >
> > >But then I REALLY re-read it and figured that if perhaps George is
> > >somehow doing a "reverse" RIP on a RAS, maybe he does have a valid
point
> > >about the RAS behing inherently dangerous. Just like others have made
> > >the point that the only real danger is the stupidity of the operator.
> >
> > No, that would *not* in *any* way be "a valid point about the RAS being
> > inherently dangerous" - that would be a demonstration that using a tool
> > incorrectly is inherently dangerous.
> >
> > Now, on a "normal" rip on a RAS, the teeth at the leading edge *are*
> moving
> > up... but ripping is not the normal mode of use for a RAS. Crosscutting
> is.
> > And when crosscutting, the teeth at the leading edge are moving *down*,
> and
> > exerting a *downward* force on the workpiece. Despite what George and
Tom
> > think.
> >
> > Neither is a RAS the best tool for ripping. That would be a TS.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
> >
> > Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
> > And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
>
>
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:40:38 -0500, Duane Bozarth
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>...
>> There isn't any disputing the *fact* that the teeth on the leading edge of an
>> RAS and a TS move the same direction: down.
>...
>
>Only if you're climb-cutting while ripping on a RAS and that <is>
>dangerous!
>
>When ripping on a RAS, to feed against the rotation direction, the
>leading teeth are rotating upwards...
>
>While I use a RAS a fair amount including ripping, it definitely
>requires setting the blade guard correctly to serve as the holddown
>while ripping...
Unless, of course, you actually use hold-downs attached to your RAS
fence (which I have used in addition to setting the guard properly to
act as a hold-down).
Dave Hall
In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
>> So how does it qualify as "a nasty piece of gear"?
>
>I have never heard of a table saw lurching up somebody's arm before.
>I have never head of an arm being cut-off above the wrist on a table saw.
http://69.64.173.24/Accidents/search.htm
Search criteria: tool involved = tablesaw, accident type = needed medical
attention. Read the third one. I'm sure there are more.
>Stupid careless people will always be stupid careless people.
True - but how does that reflect on the safety of their tools?
>In their hands, a fork is dangerous.
So is a table saw.
>A table saw has a limited amount of blade exposed unlike a RAS
Nonsense. A radial arm saw with proper guards has *less* blade exposed than a
table saw - on mine, unless I lift the guard above the work, the amount of
blade exposed is *zero*.
>Don't even talk to me about work getting pinched between the table and
>the blade.
When the conditions that cause work to be pinched between table and blade on a
RAS occur on a TS, the result is that the work is thrown back at the operator
at over a hundred miles an hour. I do not consider that to be a point in favor
of the table saw.
>
>The guys who crosses-over a left hand to the right of the blade to hold
>a small piece and run the blade with their right hand towards their arm.
Stupid. Very stupid. But not the fault of the tool.
>
>I have seen these moves in real life.
>
>I have stood there, aghast at the stupidity.....going WTF???
I hope that you have done more than just stand there watching, mute. If not,
shame on you.
>BUT.. in a perfect world, where one safety-conscience operator who is
>not careless and not stupid extolls the virtues of a RAS because that
>has been HIS experience... that in itself, does not make my concerns
>invalid.
Nonetheless, they *are* invalid. The tool is not, in and of itself, inherently
unsafe. That stupid people get hurt while using one is not an indictment of
the saw but of the dangers of stupidity.
>In the hands of a stupid, careless moron, the RAS is an extremely
>dangerous piece of shit. Period.
Right - but in the hands of a stupid, careless moron, *any* power tool is
dangerous.
>Much more so than a TS.
Wrong.
>Exactly the same argument as 1100cc crotch rockets being sold to 16-year
>old kids.... The brakes are excellent, the horn works.... but don't try
>to tell me that it is safe. Not when the safety aspect rests entirely on
>the shoulders of the operator like in the case of a RAS.
SawStop aside, please explain how the safety aspect does *not* rest entirely
on the operator with a table saw. Or with a band saw. Or with any other tool,
for that matter.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
When ripping, yes.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> What, do you think the teeth on an RAS spin *up* at the front?
>
Rumpty wrote:
>>If the depth of the dado needs to be accurate, the table saw is a better
>
> choice.
>
> Depth functions on a "DeWalt/OSC" RAS are as accurate as any TS. You just
> gotta know how to make proper depth adjustments.
>
> --
>
> Rumpty
>
> Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
>
[snip]
And under no circumstances should you use the RAS table as a work bench.
Or as storage for heavy stuff. Or as a seat for a tired butt.
Obvious but not always.
DAMHIKT,
jo4hn
In article <[email protected]>,
Adam <[email protected]> wrote:
> Again, to everyone who responded I appreciate it (I didn't mean to cause
> any disagreements with the original post, sorry about that).
This place thrives on that, Adam. We like it like that.... at least I do.
That's how you extract subtle differences of opinion.
In article <[email protected]>,
Adam <[email protected]> wrote:
> Now I just need to learn everything else about it, particularly in regards
> to keeping all the parts I was born with attached.
RAS's are a nasty piece of gear. A blade with sharp teeth at 3500 RPM is
not only dangerous as is..but now we're hanging that on a little
carriage?!?!?!
It's no secret that I thoroughly dislike the beasts.
Be careful, Adam.... concentrate, focus and you'll be fine.
In article <[email protected]>,
David <[email protected]> wrote:
> Why do you say that, Grant? I've had no problem with accuracy on my
> Unisaw with rips, crosscuts, dados, whatever.
>
If the depth of the dado needs to be accurate, the table saw is a better
choice.
If the thickness between the bottom of the dado and the outside wall of
the panel is important, the RAS would be a better choice.
IOW..of making gangs of bookcases out of irregular thickness plywood (as
I have for the local library system) The RAS will give a much more
predictable outcome.
You can accurately regulate the length of the shelves and the dado depth
will vary with the thickness of the plywood.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> I know I'm coming perilously close to violating the Usenet Prime Directive by
> attempting to inject a dose of reality into a discussion, but, please, let's
> at least attempt to be a little bit objective here.
I wasn't trying to get into a RAS vs TS safety discussion, Doug.
Both can be very dangerous. To get into a pissing contest about which
one is more dangerous, is futile.
My message to the OP was:
and I quote:
"Be careful, Adam.... concentrate, focus and you'll be fine."
*I* don't like RAS's...and used plenty of them for many years.
In article <[email protected]>,
"Rumpty" <[email protected]> wrote:
> The best RAS you can buy is a "used" DeWalt here in the US or a new RAS from
> "Original Saw Company" There are no other RAS's worth buying IMHO.
IF, I were to re-invest in a RAS..and I mean *IF*.. I'd be wanting an
Original Saw Company 12" No doubt about it. Wonderfully built.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> So how does it qualify as "a nasty piece of gear"?
I have never heard of a table saw lurching up somebody's arm before.
I have never head of an arm being cut-off above the wrist on a table saw.
Stupid careless people will always be stupid careless people.
In their hands, a fork is dangerous.
A table saw has a limited amount of blade exposed unlike a RAS
Don't even talk to me about work getting pinched between the table and
the blade.
The guys who crosses-over a left hand to the right of the blade to hold
a small piece and run the blade with their right hand towards their arm.
I have seen these moves in real life.
I have stood there, aghast at the stupidity.....going WTF???
BUT.. in a perfect world, where one safety-conscience operator who is
not careless and not stupid extolls the virtues of a RAS because that
has been HIS experience... that in itself, does not make my concerns
invalid.
In the hands of a stupid, careless moron, the RAS is an extremely
dangerous piece of shit. Period. Much more so than a TS.
Exactly the same argument as 1100cc crotch rockets being sold to 16-year
old kids.... The brakes are excellent, the horn works.... but don't try
to tell me that it is safe. Not when the safety aspect rests entirely on
the shoulders of the operator like in the case of a RAS.
I'm done pissing now.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> You've been insisting that radial arm saws are
> dangerous, and, by implication, more so than other tools. This is a position
> based more on prejudice than on evidence.
What my opinion is based on is personal experience. I feel way more
comfortable with a table saw than with a radial arm saw.
I'm just not big on whirling blades on the end of wobbly little
carriages dangling from floppy arms.
I don't like the concept, lack of accuracy, and inherent danger of a
radial arm saw. I think the whole machine is an answer to the question
nobody asked.
Sliding table-saw... now you're talking. ( ..and yes, you CAN mess
yourself up with one of those as well, if not careful.)
Then again, I'm a huge fan of Onsrud-style overhead pinrouters, so WTF
do I know?
BTW.....just so I can make your day, Doug, you are right often about
many things. I just happen to disagree with you on this issue, although
I have seen large pendulum-style swinging saws with which I don't have a
problem. Go figgur.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
[snipped]
> >The guys who crosses-over a left hand to the right of the blade to hold
> >a small piece and run the blade with their right hand towards their arm.
>
> Stupid. Very stupid. But not the fault of the tool.
*sigh* That was my point. Now try THAT move with a table saw.
> >
> >I have seen these moves in real life.
> >
> >I have stood there, aghast at the stupidity.....going WTF???
>
> I hope that you have done more than just stand there watching, mute. If not,
> shame on you.
I certainly didn't startle him into a worse situation by yelling at that
moment. Then we had a little chat, and I set him adrift on an ice-floe.
>
[more snippage]
> Right - but in the hands of a stupid, careless moron, *any* power tool is
> dangerous.
>
> >Much more so than a TS.
>
> Wrong.
I think you mean to say that you disagree. That's fine.
> SawStop aside, please explain how the safety aspect does *not* rest entirely
> on the operator with a table saw. Or with a band saw. Or with any other tool,
> for that matter.
I'd be arguing against my own position. Why would I do that?
Have you read ANYHING I wrote?
In article <[email protected]>,
"George" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Keep your thumb outta the way, and you should be fine. :)
> >
>
> That's the one. Too many stupid people put their hand where the blade's
> going.
yup
I rest my case.
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 14:29:00 -0400, "Rumpty" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
>
>(psst......I know it's a repeated post)
I was hoping the second post was going to correct "dribble" to drivel.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:03:28 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>>RAS's are a nasty piece of gear. A blade with sharp teeth at 3500 RPM is
>>not only dangerous as is..but now we're hanging that on a little
>>carriage?!?!?!
>
>I'm always mystified at the prejudice displayed toward RASs by those who have
>never owned and rarely used one.
>
>Radial arm saws are WAAAAAY safer than table saws.
Aside from the OP possibly being a troll ...otherwise he should take
up knitting ... How do you compare when ripping? I watched a
neighbour trying to manipulate with one arm on either side of the
blade. I *gave* him a table saw. Now he's making money. The RAS has
its uses which improve on the TS, but the TS is my choice for ripping,
and a few other odds and sods. Safety is not so much the tool as the
idiot using it [been there in spades.]
So crosscut very long boards on a CMS. Using the right tool for the job
is part of "safety first". If I can maintain control of a board on my
TS sled, I'll cross cut on the TS for critical cuts. I don't get
perfectly straight cuts on my CMS, because it isn't a slider. if I had
a slider, the movement of the blade would insure a straight cut. Plus
the quality of cut is better on my TS w/ WWII or the double sided
melamine blade.
I spoke with a neighbor about his dust-gathering RAS. He confirmed for
me that it won't stay adjusted. One of the bugaboos that afflict all
but the very best models according to many reports. Since I don't (and
won't) own one, I have no personal experience with one. I'd like to
keep it that way.
Did Rumpty pay you for the RAS plug? (VBG)
Dave
Doug Miller wrote:
>
> Crosscutting long boards on a table saw is insane by comparison with doing the
> same on a radial arm saw.
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 00:26:21 GMT, Adam
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I just bought a used but in beautiful shape old craftsman radial arm saw
>and here's what I've learned so far,
>It's heavy, I won't ever be moving it alone again.
>It starts with a key.
>It purrs like a kitten.
>
>Now I just need to learn everything else about it, particularly in regards
>to keeping all the parts I was born with attached. Anyone know of any good
>books available that cover these saws or have any personal advice they want
>to share?
Keep your thumb outta the way, and you should be fine. :)
>I believe the saw is from around 1959, it came with some accessories, most
>original and new in the box. If anyone's intersted I can post some pictures
>in abpw.
>
>Thanks for taking the time to read this,
>Adam
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 00:26:21 GMT, Adam
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I just bought a used but in beautiful shape old craftsman radial arm saw
>and here's what I've learned so far,
>It's heavy, I won't ever be moving it alone again.
>It starts with a key.
>It purrs like a kitten.
>
>Now I just need to learn everything else about it, particularly in regards
>to keeping all the parts I was born with attached. Anyone know of any good
>books available that cover these saws or have any personal advice they want
>to share?
>
>I believe the saw is from around 1959, it came with some accessories, most
>original and new in the box. If anyone's intersted I can post some pictures
>in abpw.
>
>Thanks for taking the time to read this,
>Adam
\
Do a search on DeCristiforo and Radial Arm Saw. I think his RAS book
is something like "The Magic of your Radial Arm Saw" or similar. It is
a pretty good book although like all the other RAS books I have seen
says nothing about the Craftsman model. I think his is written around
a DeWalt RAS. I like DeCristiforo's style but that may be because THE
book on my Shopsmith was written by him.
Dave Hall
David,
Using a properly aligned RAS (I'm talking DeWalt/OSC RAS models), a correct
blade such as a Forrest WW1 TCP blade, your rips are PERFECT for glue up.
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Let me ask you something, Steve: are the rips good enough for glue ups?
> I couldn't get a quality rip from my old Sears TS, but my Unisaw with
> WWII lets me rip as smooth as a baby's butt and straight as an arrow.
>
> Dave
>
> Steve Peterson wrote:
>
> > A RAS has the good behavior to sit quietly (most of the time) in one
place,
> > along the wall just waiting to be used. A table saw in use requires
enough
> > space, on both sides of the blade (leading and trailing), for the
workpiece
> > to be pushed through. My Dad was a cabinetmaker for 40 years; his shop
was
> > laid out all around the TS, but it was about 30'x120'. I can't make the
> > same commitment of floor space in my double garage, so I use a RAS. A
lot
> > of the rips I need to make are less than 30" long, so I use an
auxilliary
> > fence parallel to the blade travel. Clamped to the normal fence it
gives a
> > reliable reference that allows me to rip with the RAS used in its normal
> > crosscut fashion. As I usually have it set up, I get about 16" of
travel;
> > by flipping the piece and cutting from each end I can make a safe,
accurate
> > cut about 32" long. When that isn't long enough, I usually use the
bandsaw
> > or a circular saw.
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:36:20 GMT, "Clint" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>So a friend of mine offered me a RAS, as he's got two sitting in his garage
>(in pieces). I've got a tablesaw, a miter saw, but I'm thinking this saw
>could still be a useful addition to my arsenal. Or am I dreaming? I was
>thinking it would be as useful as having a crosscut sled set up, and useful
>for cutting dado's and rabbets. Probably keep it at 90 degrees almost all
>the time.
>
>Clint
=================
I have owned a RAS for at least 40 years and it has not moved off a 90
degree cut for the last 30 years....I also own a CMS and a couple of
Tablesaws..which are both used...
The RAS is pretty useful for dado's especially if they do not need to
be dead on accurate...89.90 degrees or so... lol...
Sorry but my old Delta Contractors saw is set up with a dead on
adjustabe sled just for doing crosscuts of less then 30 inches in
lenght... the RAS is used ONLY for rough cutting crosscuts...
anything over 30 inches that I need super accurate cross cuts is done
on my Cabinet saw also with a sled....
Actually my CMS is only used ocassionaly and also never for accurate
cuts.... I just prefer the feel of using the RAS over the CMS.... BUT
If I were a young man and just starting out I would go for the CMS to
save space...
Bob G.
LOL! Point taken.
Dave
Rumpty wrote:
>>ah, yeah...ok...well at least you kept the ball in play.
>
>
> Hey, if youse guys want to keep walking around with your head up in the
> clouds thinking the RAS is a worthless POC, be my guest! I make good $ with
> mine, and if you walk into my shop don't go looking for the TS because there
> ain't none.
>
>
> Rumpty may take issue with this, but IMO they are *not* as accurate as a
table saw.
I'm not getting in the middle of this.....
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
> >In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> >
> >> You've been insisting that radial arm saws are
> >> dangerous, and, by implication, more so than other tools. This is a
position
> >> based more on prejudice than on evidence.
> >
> >What my opinion is based on is personal experience. I feel way more
> >comfortable with a table saw than with a radial arm saw.
>
> That's not the same as the inherent safety (or lack thereof) of the tool.
> >
> >I'm just not big on whirling blades on the end of wobbly little
> >carriages dangling from floppy arms.
>
> Neither am I. If my RAS had a wobbly carriage and a floppy arm, I'd either
fix
> it, or replace it with one that was more solid.
> >
> >I don't like the concept, lack of accuracy, and inherent danger of a
> >radial arm saw. I think the whole machine is an answer to the question
> >nobody asked.
>
> "Concept" is a matter of opinion, and I won't argue with you over that. We
can
> agree to disagree there.
>
> "Lack of accuracy" I won't argue with, either. Rumpty may take issue with
> this, but IMO they are *not* as accurate as a table saw. And they're more
> difficult to set accurately, too.
>
> "Inherent danger" is where you jump off the cliff. Operated with the
proper
> care, a RAS is no more dangerous than a TS (and IMO safer for most
> operations).
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
> And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
Tom,
My 7790 uses 11 ply ply and my MB's use MDF. All reinforced with 5/8 steel
strip epoxied into matching groves. The plys are glued together with white
glue. Of course there is a 1/4" sacrificial top nailed into place.
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"Tom Quackenbush" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Rumpty wrote:
> <snip>
> >I have been known to stand on mine, BUT I have a 2 ply, ply top with
steel
> >reinforcing and it does not move.
>
> 2 ply plywood? Two pieces of 3 or 5 or 7 (or more) ply plywood?
>
> R,
> Tom Q.
> --
> R,
> Tom Q.
>
> Remove bogusinfo to reply.
I haven't had any trouble with making perpendicular cuts with my Unisaw,
due to the positive, repeateable stop for the tilt mechanism. My
Crapsman TS, on the other hand... <g>
Dave
Steve Peterson wrote:
> I usually make at least one pass through the jointer before trying to glue
> anything. I do have a WWII blade and it does make a nice cut, but the
> jointer still makes it cleaner and assures a right angle.
>
> Steve
>
> "David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Let me ask you something, Steve: are the rips good enough for glue ups? I
>>couldn't get a quality rip from my old Sears TS, but my Unisaw with WWII
>>lets me rip as smooth as a baby's butt and straight as an arrow.
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>Steve Peterson wrote:
>>
>>
>>>A RAS has the good behavior to sit quietly (most of the time) in one
>>>place, along the wall just waiting to be used. A table saw in use
>>>requires enough space, on both sides of the blade (leading and trailing),
>>>for the workpiece to be pushed through. My Dad was a cabinetmaker for 40
>>>years; his shop was laid out all around the TS, but it was about
>>>30'x120'. I can't make the same commitment of floor space in my double
>>>garage, so I use a RAS. A lot of the rips I need to make are less than
>>>30" long, so I use an auxilliary fence parallel to the blade travel.
>>>Clamped to the normal fence it gives a reliable reference that allows me
>>>to rip with the RAS used in its normal crosscut fashion. As I usually
>>>have it set up, I get about 16" of travel; by flipping the piece and
>>>cutting from each end I can make a safe, accurate cut about 32" long.
>>>When that isn't long enough, I usually use the bandsaw or a circular saw.
>>>
>>>Steve
>
>
>
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:25:32 -0400, "Rumpty" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>>I was hoping the second post was going to correct "dribble" to drivel.
>
>I looked in my "How To Master The Radial Saw" by Walley Kunkel
>http://mrsawdust.com to check for correct spelling but I spilled coffee on
>that page and couldn't read it.
You'd have scored a hunnert points if you had said you dribbled coffee
on that page...
Oh, well. Opportunity lost.
--
LRod
Master Woodbutcher and seasoned termite
Shamelessly whoring my website since 1999
http://www.woodbutcher.net
Proud participant of rec.woodworking since February, 1997
In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
>> You've been insisting that radial arm saws are
>> dangerous, and, by implication, more so than other tools. This is a position
>> based more on prejudice than on evidence.
>
>What my opinion is based on is personal experience. I feel way more
>comfortable with a table saw than with a radial arm saw.
That's not the same as the inherent safety (or lack thereof) of the tool.
>
>I'm just not big on whirling blades on the end of wobbly little
>carriages dangling from floppy arms.
Neither am I. If my RAS had a wobbly carriage and a floppy arm, I'd either fix
it, or replace it with one that was more solid.
>
>I don't like the concept, lack of accuracy, and inherent danger of a
>radial arm saw. I think the whole machine is an answer to the question
>nobody asked.
"Concept" is a matter of opinion, and I won't argue with you over that. We can
agree to disagree there.
"Lack of accuracy" I won't argue with, either. Rumpty may take issue with
this, but IMO they are *not* as accurate as a table saw. And they're more
difficult to set accurately, too.
"Inherent danger" is where you jump off the cliff. Operated with the proper
care, a RAS is no more dangerous than a TS (and IMO safer for most
operations).
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 01:48:49 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:03:28 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I'm always mystified at the prejudice displayed toward RASs by those who have
>>>never owned and rarely used one.
>>
>>Well, I've owned three of them, used them a lot in the past, and I
>>think they suck.
Strike One.
>>>
>>>Radial arm saws are WAAAAAY safer than table saws.
>>
>>An interesting claim but one not carefully supported by data.
Strike Two.
>>
>>> When operating the RAS, one
>>>hand is *always* on the handle of the saw and it is therefore impossible to
>>>amputate that hand or any of its digits
>>
>>Are you suggesting that most table saw accidents result in double
>>amputation?
>
>Obviously not, and I can't even begin to imagine what you might have thought
>you read that suggested that.
Foul Ball.
>>
>>>- and to keep the other hand safe, all
>>>you have to do it put it someplace that isn't in the path of the blade, and
>>>keep it there.
>>
>>Well, Golly Gee, isn't that the whole game with any tool?
>
>Not quite. On other tools - tablesaws and shapers, for example - the cutter is
>stationary, and one's hands move past it. The risk of moving the hand into the
>cutter is obviously higher than on a tool such as the RAS, in which the cutter
>moves in a straight line on a fixed and unchangeable path. All you gotta do to
>avoid a hand injury is to put your hand somewhere that's not in that path, and
>keep it put.
Another foul. This one tingled the hands a bit.
>>>
>>>Kickback is a rare event, and if it occurs, the workpiece is thrown *away*
>>>from the operator, not *toward* him as with a TS.
>>
>>It is not the workpiece that must be feared but the whirling blade
>>that self feeds towards the operator, perhaps not by intent, but
>>surely by design.
>
>Nonsense. The blade on an RAS is no more to be feared than that on a TS. The
>blade is contained in a steel guard attached to the motor housing, which rides
>on rails. Yes, it can move, but where it's gonna move isn't exactly a mystery.
That one rode the corner. I'll call it a ball, just to keep the AB
going.
>>>
>>>Crosscutting long boards on a table saw is insane by comparison with doing the
>>>same on a radial arm saw.
>>
>>Are you not available to the joy and safety of cutting with a sled and
>>outfeed table?
>
>I am. I'm also well acquainted with the joy and safety of crosscutting long
>and heavy boards without having to deal with their large moment of inertia.
OK. Ball Two.
>
>>>Ripping looks scary... but think about it - there's less blade exposed during
>>>rip operations on a RAS than on a TS (assuming you haven't done something
>>>stupid like removing the guard).
>>
>>In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and
>>towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using
>>a radial arm saw.
>
>Sorry, but you're wrong. In *both* cases, the teeth on the leading edge of the
>blade are moving *down* and thus exerting a downward force on the wood.
Strike Three. And that wasn't even a good junk pitch.
>>
>>In what way do you think that having the work directed away from the
>>table is more safe than having it inherently directed towards it?
>
>I don't think that for a moment. But as I've pointed out, that's not what
>happens on a RAS.
Don't argue with the ump.
>>
>>>
>>>I know I'm coming perilously close to violating the Usenet Prime Directive by
>>>attempting to inject a dose of reality into a discussion
>>
>>Not so far.
>>
>>>, but, please, let's
>>>at least attempt to be a little bit objective here.
>>
>>
>>I agree totally with Robatoy on this and I will be glad to tell you,
>>in the spirit of objectivity, that you will never see one of these
>>widowmaker pieces of shit in a professional shop, excepting the
>>instances where it is dedicated to crosscutting, usually close to the
>>lumber rack, so that it can buck things up into rough lengths. And
>>that is only the case because they already owned the pig and did not
>>want to sell it for scrap to have a down payment on a SCMS.
>>
>>Radial Arm Saws are the Swiss Army Knives of the amateur wooddorking
>>world and suffer from the same affliction as their referent; they
>>don't do anything well but are often asked to do many things poorly.
>>
>>If radial arm saws had a corkscrew, I might consider putting one back
>>in my shop.
>>
>>I long ago traded a RAS, allegedly capable of cutting 25" in crosscut,
>>for a 12" SCMS. The reason was that what was alleged did not prove
>>true, to a usable accurate degree, under daily use, and that work went
>>back to the TS.
>>
>>
>>A careful thinking about the geometry and stresses under load of a
>>contraption such as the RAS would inevitably lead a thoughtful and
>>prudent person to give theirs away to their dearest enemy.
>
>Careful thinking about the geometry would also lead to correct conclusions
>about the direction of the force exerted on the work by the blade.
>
>It's quite clear that your position is, like Robatoy's, the result of
>prejudice, and not of logic.
Sigh. Off to the showers with ya.
Don't despair, it's hard to come back from an 0-2 count.
"Have faith my son, remember the great Dimaggio."
(E.H., TOMATS)
Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
I usually make at least one pass through the jointer before trying to glue
anything. I do have a WWII blade and it does make a nice cut, but the
jointer still makes it cleaner and assures a right angle.
Steve
"David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Let me ask you something, Steve: are the rips good enough for glue ups? I
> couldn't get a quality rip from my old Sears TS, but my Unisaw with WWII
> lets me rip as smooth as a baby's butt and straight as an arrow.
>
> Dave
>
> Steve Peterson wrote:
>
>> A RAS has the good behavior to sit quietly (most of the time) in one
>> place, along the wall just waiting to be used. A table saw in use
>> requires enough space, on both sides of the blade (leading and trailing),
>> for the workpiece to be pushed through. My Dad was a cabinetmaker for 40
>> years; his shop was laid out all around the TS, but it was about
>> 30'x120'. I can't make the same commitment of floor space in my double
>> garage, so I use a RAS. A lot of the rips I need to make are less than
>> 30" long, so I use an auxilliary fence parallel to the blade travel.
>> Clamped to the normal fence it gives a reliable reference that allows me
>> to rip with the RAS used in its normal crosscut fashion. As I usually
>> have it set up, I get about 16" of travel; by flipping the piece and
>> cutting from each end I can make a safe, accurate cut about 32" long.
>> When that isn't long enough, I usually use the bandsaw or a circular saw.
>>
>> Steve
In article <[email protected]>, Unquestionably Confused <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, "George" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>>
>>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>[Tom Watson wrote:]
>>>>>In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and
>>>>>towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using
>>>>>a radial arm saw.
>>>>
>>>>Sorry, but you're wrong. In *both* cases, the teeth on the leading edge of
>>>>the blade are moving *down* and thus exerting a downward force on the wood.
>>>>
>>>HUH????????
>>
>>
>> What, do you think the teeth on an RAS spin *up* at the front?
>
>I, too, read that and wondered what the ....? Then I thought about it
>and must presume that George may be one of those who chooses to bring
>the RAS all the way out on the carriage and then push it back towards
>the fence with the board to be cut between the two.
Perhaps attempting to use a radial arm saw in that manner explains the blind,
unreasoning, panicky shouts of "Unsafe! Unsafe!"
It *is* unsafe when used like that. *Any* tool is, or can be, unsafe when used
incorrectly. And again, we're back to the operator making the difference, not
the tool.
>But then I REALLY re-read it and figured that if perhaps George is
>somehow doing a "reverse" RIP on a RAS, maybe he does have a valid point
>about the RAS behing inherently dangerous. Just like others have made
>the point that the only real danger is the stupidity of the operator.
No, that would *not* in *any* way be "a valid point about the RAS being
inherently dangerous" - that would be a demonstration that using a tool
incorrectly is inherently dangerous.
Now, on a "normal" rip on a RAS, the teeth at the leading edge *are* moving
up... but ripping is not the normal mode of use for a RAS. Crosscutting is.
And when crosscutting, the teeth at the leading edge are moving *down*, and
exerting a *downward* force on the workpiece. Despite what George and Tom
think.
Neither is a RAS the best tool for ripping. That would be a TS.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
Guess who wrote:
> Aside from the OP possibly being a troll ...otherwise he should take
> up knitting ... How do you compare when ripping? I watched a
> neighbour trying to manipulate with one arm on either side of the
> blade.
I grant you that it is easier/better to rip on a table saw - should be,
that's what it is meant to do - put ripping on a RAS isn't all that hard
and no more dangerous than on a table saw...one keeps one's hands and
body where they should be (out of the way of danger) in both cases.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:03:28 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:
>I'm always mystified at the prejudice displayed toward RASs by those who have
>never owned and rarely used one.
Well, I've owned three of them, used them a lot in the past, and I
think they suck.
>
>Radial arm saws are WAAAAAY safer than table saws.
An interesting claim but one not carefully supported by data.
> When operating the RAS, one
>hand is *always* on the handle of the saw and it is therefore impossible to
>amputate that hand or any of its digits
Are you suggesting that most table saw accidents result in double
amputation?
>- and to keep the other hand safe, all
>you have to do it put it someplace that isn't in the path of the blade, and
>keep it there.
Well, Golly Gee, isn't that the whole game with any tool?
>
>Kickback is a rare event, and if it occurs, the workpiece is thrown *away*
>from the operator, not *toward* him as with a TS.
It is not the workpiece that must be feared but the whirling blade
that self feeds towards the operator, perhaps not by intent, but
surely by design.
>
>Crosscutting long boards on a table saw is insane by comparison with doing the
>same on a radial arm saw.
Are you not available to the joy and safety of cutting with a sled and
outfeed table?
>
>Ripping looks scary... but think about it - there's less blade exposed during
>rip operations on a RAS than on a TS (assuming you haven't done something
>stupid like removing the guard).
In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and
towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using
a radial arm saw.
In what way do you think that having the work directed away from the
table is more safe than having it inherently directed towards it?
>
>I know I'm coming perilously close to violating the Usenet Prime Directive by
>attempting to inject a dose of reality into a discussion
Not so far.
>, but, please, let's
>at least attempt to be a little bit objective here.
I agree totally with Robatoy on this and I will be glad to tell you,
in the spirit of objectivity, that you will never see one of these
widowmaker pieces of shit in a professional shop, excepting the
instances where it is dedicated to crosscutting, usually close to the
lumber rack, so that it can buck things up into rough lengths. And
that is only the case because they already owned the pig and did not
want to sell it for scrap to have a down payment on a SCMS.
Radial Arm Saws are the Swiss Army Knives of the amateur wooddorking
world and suffer from the same affliction as their referent; they
don't do anything well but are often asked to do many things poorly.
If radial arm saws had a corkscrew, I might consider putting one back
in my shop.
I long ago traded a RAS, allegedly capable of cutting 25" in crosscut,
for a 12" SCMS. The reason was that what was alleged did not prove
true, to a usable accurate degree, under daily use, and that work went
back to the TS.
A careful thinking about the geometry and stresses under load of a
contraption such as the RAS would inevitably lead a thoughtful and
prudent person to give theirs away to their dearest enemy.
Tom Watson - WoodDorker
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
Well, that's probably my biggest issue with getting the RAS; the space
required for it. But I was thinking that the RAS, CMS, and drill press all
have similar "long board" requirements, so maybe they can co-exist on a wall
somewhere.
Clint
"Bob G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:36:20 GMT, "Clint" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >So a friend of mine offered me a RAS, as he's got two sitting in his
garage
> >(in pieces). I've got a tablesaw, a miter saw, but I'm thinking this saw
> >could still be a useful addition to my arsenal. Or am I dreaming? I was
> >thinking it would be as useful as having a crosscut sled set up, and
useful
> >for cutting dado's and rabbets. Probably keep it at 90 degrees almost
all
> >the time.
> >
> >Clint
> =================
> I have owned a RAS for at least 40 years and it has not moved off a 90
> degree cut for the last 30 years....I also own a CMS and a couple of
> Tablesaws..which are both used...
>
> The RAS is pretty useful for dado's especially if they do not need to
> be dead on accurate...89.90 degrees or so... lol...
>
> Sorry but my old Delta Contractors saw is set up with a dead on
> adjustabe sled just for doing crosscuts of less then 30 inches in
> lenght... the RAS is used ONLY for rough cutting crosscuts...
> anything over 30 inches that I need super accurate cross cuts is done
> on my Cabinet saw also with a sled....
>
> Actually my CMS is only used ocassionaly and also never for accurate
> cuts.... I just prefer the feel of using the RAS over the CMS.... BUT
> If I were a young man and just starting out I would go for the CMS to
> save space...
>
> Bob G.
>ah, yeah...ok...well at least you kept the ball in play.
Hey, if youse guys want to keep walking around with your head up in the
clouds thinking the RAS is a worthless POC, be my guest! I make good $ with
mine, and if you walk into my shop don't go looking for the TS because there
ain't none.
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> ah, yeah...ok...well at least you kept the ball in play. :)
>
> Doug?
>
> Dave
>
> Rumpty wrote:
>
> > Naw, I don't argue, the RAS is more accurate, easier to use, safer, can
do
> > more, but I'm not going to argue.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Rumpty
> >
> > Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
> >
> > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >
> >
> > "David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>I've never seen you shy away from a RAS argument before. C'mon...go for
> >
> > it.
> >
> >>Dave
> >>
> >>Rumpty wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>>Rumpty may take issue with this, but IMO they are *not* as accurate
as
> >
> > a
> >
> >>>table saw.
> >>>
> >>>I'm not getting in the middle of this.....
> >>>
> >>>--
> >>>
> >>>Rumpty
> >>>
> >>>Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
> >>>
> >>>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>news:[email protected]...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy
> >>>
> >>><[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>In article <[email protected]>,
> >>>>>[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>You've been insisting that radial arm saws are
> >>>>>>dangerous, and, by implication, more so than other tools. This is a
> >>>
> >>>position
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>based more on prejudice than on evidence.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>What my opinion is based on is personal experience. I feel way more
> >>>>>comfortable with a table saw than with a radial arm saw.
> >>>>
> >>>>That's not the same as the inherent safety (or lack thereof) of the
> >
> > tool.
> >
> >>>>>I'm just not big on whirling blades on the end of wobbly little
> >>>>>carriages dangling from floppy arms.
> >>>>
> >>>>Neither am I. If my RAS had a wobbly carriage and a floppy arm, I'd
> >
> > either
> >
> >>>fix
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>it, or replace it with one that was more solid.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>I don't like the concept, lack of accuracy, and inherent danger of a
> >>>>>radial arm saw. I think the whole machine is an answer to the
question
> >>>>>nobody asked.
> >>>>
> >>>>"Concept" is a matter of opinion, and I won't argue with you over
that.
> >
> > We
> >
> >>>can
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>agree to disagree there.
> >>>>
> >>>>"Lack of accuracy" I won't argue with, either. Rumpty may take issue
> >
> > with
> >
> >>>>this, but IMO they are *not* as accurate as a table saw. And they're
> >
> > more
> >
> >>>>difficult to set accurately, too.
> >>>>
> >>>>"Inherent danger" is where you jump off the cliff. Operated with the
> >>>
> >>>proper
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>care, a RAS is no more dangerous than a TS (and IMO safer for most
> >>>>operations).
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>Regards,
> >>>> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
> >>>>
> >>>>Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his
butt.
> >>>>And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >
> >
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>
>> So how does it qualify as "a nasty piece of gear"?
>
> I have never heard of a table saw lurching up somebody's arm before.
> I have never head of an arm being cut-off above the wrist on a table saw.
>
> Stupid careless people will always be stupid careless people.
> In their hands, a fork is dangerous.
>
> A table saw has a limited amount of blade exposed unlike a RAS
>
> Don't even talk to me about work getting pinched between the table and
> the blade.
>
> The guys who crosses-over a left hand to the right of the blade to hold
> a small piece and run the blade with their right hand towards their arm.
>
> I have seen these moves in real life.
>
> I have stood there, aghast at the stupidity.....going WTF???
>
> BUT.. in a perfect world, where one safety-conscience operator who is
> not careless and not stupid extolls the virtues of a RAS because that
> has been HIS experience... that in itself, does not make my concerns
> invalid.
>
> In the hands of a stupid, careless moron, the RAS is an extremely
> dangerous piece of shit. Period. Much more so than a TS.
>
> Exactly the same argument as 1100cc crotch rockets being sold to 16-year
> old kids.... The brakes are excellent, the horn works.... but don't try
> to tell me that it is safe. Not when the safety aspect rests entirely on
> the shoulders of the operator like in the case of a RAS.
>
> I'm done pissing now.
All good points.
I grew up around radial arm saws. I have seen them mounted on trailers for
construction work. All houses used to be built with RAS's. I have a healthy
respect for them and all other power tools.
A common expression I heard while growing up was that some people should
never use power tools. This is true. There is a segment of the population
who have this genetic drive to sacrifice parts of their bodies to the power
tool gods. They can't help it. The demonization of the radial arm saw has
nothing to do with this.
These folks just have to act like there are no consequences for their
glaring ineptitude in all matters that are safety related. And they don't
need a radial arm saw either, They can do great bodily harm with a manual
can opener.
I used to work in insurance. I used to read the claims reports involving
power tool "accidents". Some of those stories were just bizzare. Talk
about a death/disability wish. It is almost like these guys just wanna do
themselves in.
A classic scenario that played itself out again and again goes something
like this. Wife buys power tool for hubby for birthday or something. Hubby
sets up tool and fires it up. Hubby, IMMEDIATELY, cuts something off.
And every now and then, when asked to demonstrate for the insurance agent
how they injured themselves, they will DO IT ALL OVER AGAIN!!
I think that we need to develop genetic testing. Find the gene that causes
all these power tool accidents. And then ban everyone who posseses these
genes from ever owning or operating a power tool of any kind. How is that
for a new safety measure?
Lee Michaels
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "George" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>>In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and
>>>>towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using
>>>>a radial arm saw.
>>>
>>>Sorry, but you're wrong. In *both* cases, the teeth on the leading edge of
>>
>>the
>>
>>>blade are moving *down* and thus exerting a downward force on the wood.
>>>
>>HUH????????
>
>
> What, do you think the teeth on an RAS spin *up* at the front?
>
>
>
They do on mine when you rip wood? Otherwise you
would have to hold back on the wood. Spin down
when you crosscut.
I have and use a RAS. My only discomfort is that work other than cutting,
e.g., molding, rabitting etc., if the work shifts it will shift into the
cutter and get gouged. Doing the same operation on a Table Saw, if the work
shifts, you cut less than you had intended and can take a second pass.
Otherwise, I like and use RAS.
Ivan Vegvary
"Adam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I just bought a used but in beautiful shape old craftsman radial arm saw
> and here's what I've learned so far,
> It's heavy, I won't ever be moving it alone again.
> It starts with a key.
> It purrs like a kitten.
>
> Now I just need to learn everything else about it, particularly in regards
> to keeping all the parts I was born with attached. Anyone know of any good
> books available that cover these saws or have any personal advice they
> want
> to share?
>
> I believe the saw is from around 1959, it came with some accessories, most
> original and new in the box. If anyone's intersted I can post some
> pictures
> in abpw.
>
> Thanks for taking the time to read this,
> Adam
LOL!! I can't WAIT to see Rumpty's response. The gloves are off! You
go, Tom.
Dave
Tom Watson wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:03:28 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
> wrote:
>
>
>>I'm always mystified at the prejudice displayed toward RASs by those who have
>>never owned and rarely used one.
>
>
> Well, I've owned three of them, used them a lot in the past, and I
> think they suck.
>
>>Radial arm saws are WAAAAAY safer than table saws.
>
>
> An interesting claim but one not carefully supported by data.
>
>
>>When operating the RAS, one
>>hand is *always* on the handle of the saw and it is therefore impossible to
>>amputate that hand or any of its digits
>
>
> Are you suggesting that most table saw accidents result in double
> amputation?
>
>
>>- and to keep the other hand safe, all
>>you have to do it put it someplace that isn't in the path of the blade, and
>>keep it there.
>
>
> Well, Golly Gee, isn't that the whole game with any tool?
>
>>Kickback is a rare event, and if it occurs, the workpiece is thrown *away*
>
>>from the operator, not *toward* him as with a TS.
>
> It is not the workpiece that must be feared but the whirling blade
> that self feeds towards the operator, perhaps not by intent, but
> surely by design.
>
>>Crosscutting long boards on a table saw is insane by comparison with doing the
>>same on a radial arm saw.
>
>
> Are you not available to the joy and safety of cutting with a sled and
> outfeed table?
>
>>Ripping looks scary... but think about it - there's less blade exposed during
>>rip operations on a RAS than on a TS (assuming you haven't done something
>>stupid like removing the guard).
>
>
> In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and
> towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using
> a radial arm saw.
>
> In what way do you think that having the work directed away from the
> table is more safe than having it inherently directed towards it?
>
>
>>I know I'm coming perilously close to violating the Usenet Prime Directive by
>>attempting to inject a dose of reality into a discussion
>
>
> Not so far.
>
>
>>, but, please, let's
>>at least attempt to be a little bit objective here.
>
>
>
> I agree totally with Robatoy on this and I will be glad to tell you,
> in the spirit of objectivity, that you will never see one of these
> widowmaker pieces of shit in a professional shop, excepting the
> instances where it is dedicated to crosscutting, usually close to the
> lumber rack, so that it can buck things up into rough lengths. And
> that is only the case because they already owned the pig and did not
> want to sell it for scrap to have a down payment on a SCMS.
>
> Radial Arm Saws are the Swiss Army Knives of the amateur wooddorking
> world and suffer from the same affliction as their referent; they
> don't do anything well but are often asked to do many things poorly.
>
> If radial arm saws had a corkscrew, I might consider putting one back
> in my shop.
>
> I long ago traded a RAS, allegedly capable of cutting 25" in crosscut,
> for a 12" SCMS. The reason was that what was alleged did not prove
> true, to a usable accurate degree, under daily use, and that work went
> back to the TS.
>
>
> A careful thinking about the geometry and stresses under load of a
> contraption such as the RAS would inevitably lead a thoughtful and
> prudent person to give theirs away to their dearest enemy.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Tom Watson - WoodDorker
> tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (email)
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/ (website)
In article <[email protected]>, Guess who <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 14 Jun 2005 03:03:28 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
>wrote:
>>>RAS's are a nasty piece of gear. A blade with sharp teeth at 3500 RPM is
>>>not only dangerous as is..but now we're hanging that on a little
>>>carriage?!?!?!
>>
>>I'm always mystified at the prejudice displayed toward RASs by those who have
>>never owned and rarely used one.
>>
>>Radial arm saws are WAAAAAY safer than table saws.
>
>Aside from the OP possibly being a troll ...otherwise he should take
>up knitting ... How do you compare when ripping? I watched a
>neighbour trying to manipulate with one arm on either side of the
>blade. I *gave* him a table saw. Now he's making money. The RAS has
>its uses which improve on the TS, but the TS is my choice for ripping,
>and a few other odds and sods. Safety is not so much the tool as the
>idiot using it [been there in spades.]
TS is my choice when ripping, too, but that's more a matter of convenience
than one of safety IMO. It's just easier to reach. And of course a TS offers a
wider rip capacity.
As far as safety is concerned, I think they're comparable.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
ah, yeah...ok...well at least you kept the ball in play. :)
Doug?
Dave
Rumpty wrote:
> Naw, I don't argue, the RAS is more accurate, easier to use, safer, can do
> more, but I'm not going to argue.
>
> --
>
> Rumpty
>
> Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
>
> "David" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>I've never seen you shy away from a RAS argument before. C'mon...go for
>
> it.
>
>>Dave
>>
>>Rumpty wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>Rumpty may take issue with this, but IMO they are *not* as accurate as
>
> a
>
>>>table saw.
>>>
>>>I'm not getting in the middle of this.....
>>>
>>>--
>>>
>>>Rumpty
>>>
>>>Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
>>>
>>>- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>>>
>>>
>>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>>>In article <[email protected]>, Robatoy
>>>
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>[email protected] (Doug Miller) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>You've been insisting that radial arm saws are
>>>>>>dangerous, and, by implication, more so than other tools. This is a
>>>
>>>position
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>based more on prejudice than on evidence.
>>>>>
>>>>>What my opinion is based on is personal experience. I feel way more
>>>>>comfortable with a table saw than with a radial arm saw.
>>>>
>>>>That's not the same as the inherent safety (or lack thereof) of the
>
> tool.
>
>>>>>I'm just not big on whirling blades on the end of wobbly little
>>>>>carriages dangling from floppy arms.
>>>>
>>>>Neither am I. If my RAS had a wobbly carriage and a floppy arm, I'd
>
> either
>
>>>fix
>>>
>>>
>>>>it, or replace it with one that was more solid.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I don't like the concept, lack of accuracy, and inherent danger of a
>>>>>radial arm saw. I think the whole machine is an answer to the question
>>>>>nobody asked.
>>>>
>>>>"Concept" is a matter of opinion, and I won't argue with you over that.
>
> We
>
>>>can
>>>
>>>
>>>>agree to disagree there.
>>>>
>>>>"Lack of accuracy" I won't argue with, either. Rumpty may take issue
>
> with
>
>>>>this, but IMO they are *not* as accurate as a table saw. And they're
>
> more
>
>>>>difficult to set accurately, too.
>>>>
>>>>"Inherent danger" is where you jump off the cliff. Operated with the
>>>
>>>proper
>>>
>>>
>>>>care, a RAS is no more dangerous than a TS (and IMO safer for most
>>>>operations).
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>Regards,
>>>> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>>>>
>>>>Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
>>>>And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>Neither is a RAS the best tool for ripping.
Tsk tsk tsk, not nice to lie!
--
Rumpty
Radial Arm Saw Forum: http://forums.delphiforums.com/woodbutcher/start
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"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Unquestionably
Confused <[email protected]> wrote:
> >Doug Miller wrote:
> >> In article <[email protected]>, "George"
<[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>news:[email protected]...
> >>>>[Tom Watson wrote:]
> >>>>>In the act of ripping with a table saw the work is directed down and
> >>>>>towards the table, whereas the work is naturally thrown up when using
> >>>>>a radial arm saw.
> >>>>
> >>>>Sorry, but you're wrong. In *both* cases, the teeth on the leading
edge of
> >>>>the blade are moving *down* and thus exerting a downward force on the
wood.
> >>>>
> >>>HUH????????
> >>
> >>
> >> What, do you think the teeth on an RAS spin *up* at the front?
> >
> >I, too, read that and wondered what the ....? Then I thought about it
> >and must presume that George may be one of those who chooses to bring
> >the RAS all the way out on the carriage and then push it back towards
> >the fence with the board to be cut between the two.
>
> Perhaps attempting to use a radial arm saw in that manner explains the
blind,
> unreasoning, panicky shouts of "Unsafe! Unsafe!"
>
> It *is* unsafe when used like that. *Any* tool is, or can be, unsafe when
used
> incorrectly. And again, we're back to the operator making the difference,
not
> the tool.
>
> >But then I REALLY re-read it and figured that if perhaps George is
> >somehow doing a "reverse" RIP on a RAS, maybe he does have a valid point
> >about the RAS behing inherently dangerous. Just like others have made
> >the point that the only real danger is the stupidity of the operator.
>
> No, that would *not* in *any* way be "a valid point about the RAS being
> inherently dangerous" - that would be a demonstration that using a tool
> incorrectly is inherently dangerous.
>
> Now, on a "normal" rip on a RAS, the teeth at the leading edge *are*
moving
> up... but ripping is not the normal mode of use for a RAS. Crosscutting
is.
> And when crosscutting, the teeth at the leading edge are moving *down*,
and
> exerting a *downward* force on the workpiece. Despite what George and Tom
> think.
>
> Neither is a RAS the best tool for ripping. That would be a TS.
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
>
> Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt.
> And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?