Waterproofing plywood: Poly, epoxy....?

On 7/9/2011 9:58 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Jul 2011 18:17:31 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:

>> I used the Polydeck product about five years ago on a raised platform
>> for AC condenser units that had to be at FF elevation to pass code (an
>
> Mine is a cheap prefab concrete slab they dropped on the ground when
> they installed the condenser. I saved a couple hundred by running the
> wiring myself, and lighting the unlit attic, too.

I doubt yours is 42" above grade ...

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 7/15/2011 8:24 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 23:20:27 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/14/11 10:32 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> David Harmon wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:00:45 -0400 in rec.woodworking, "Mike Marlow"
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote,
>>>>>
>>>>> HD does not have any tools or other products manufactured for them,
>>>>> other than exclusive labels.
>>>>
>>>> Is Ryobi an "exclusive label"?
>>>
>>> No - and that is a foolish question. Ryobi is available a lot of places
>>> besides HD. No Ryobi models are manufactured for HD- they are all standard
>>> models, available anywhere else Ryobi is sold.
>>>
>>
>> Sure about that?
>> http://www.ryobitools.com/where_to_buy/the_home_depot
>
> They're also available through Amazon, eBay, etc.
> HD is probably the largest seller now, though.
>
> --
> Learning to ignore things is one of the great paths to inner peace.
> -- Robert J. Sawyer


I saw the ones through Amazon, they all routed back to HD as the seller.
Ebay IMHO would be like finding a Rypbi tool at a garage sale.

Jack Stein wrote:

>
> I never bought a Ryobi tool but, I'd think this would be a lot
> different than buying a Craftsman tool made by a brand name mfg that
> makes a cheaper version of their product just for Sears. They always
> had shitty parts, like a plastic gear rather than a metal gear, crap
> like that. I figured this was to insure the real tools were better
> than the cheaper Sears brand.
>
> If Sears owned it's own mfg plant, I would think they would not
> necessarily use the cheap plastic gear. If Ryobi makes tools
> exclusively for HD, they would be more inclined to make the best
> product possible at the best possible price.
>
> Personally, I'd be more likely to buy a Ryobi knowing this than I was
> before knowing this.

Their tools may be ok, but stay away from their power equipment like string
trimmers, etc., especially the gas operated stuff. It appears that they
have their forte, but their name should not be accepted as a universal
statement of quality.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Jul 15, 2:30=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 7/15/11 12:48 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> > I had to think back. Yeah, I ordered my first 14.4v kit from HD, too.
> > Interesting. =A0They're inexpensive but decent tools. I had an old Skil
> > 9.6v drill motor before the Ryobi and the Ry was lights years ahead.
> > I also had two old B&D 3/8" VSRs with 1/2" chucks on them that, at
> > that time, had refused to die. Both have died smoky deaths since.
>
> I consider some stuff I buy to be either disposable or on long term
> lease. =A0:-)
>
> The last uber-cheap B&D FireStorm 18v combo package I bought is still
> kicking and I have knocked the shite out of them. =A0I don't expect them =
to
> last 15 years or more like my DeWalt circ saw, but hey. =A0I have a Skil
> corded hammer saw that I simply cannot destroy. =A0It's been left out in
> the rain... run for more than 24hrs at a time as a water pump... been
> tossed off the top off wall onto the subfloor deck, tossed off a near
> 30' roof peak into the dirt/grass... it the zombie of power-tools.
>

I once saw a cheap Black & Decker circular saw fall from the top of 8
levels of scaffolding, hitting every crossbar and diagonal on the way
down just crashing and banging, then landing on a concrete slab in a
pile of sandy mud just to be rolled over by a Cat D-9...and after all
that, it was still a useless piece of shit.

On 7/9/2011 12:48 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
> "Swingman"<[email protected]> wrote in message


>> Will any part of it be directly exposed to the weather?
>
> All of it, year-round..

>> That said, there is really no reason to use indoor plywood outdoors, and
>> to do so will ultimately be unsatisfactory regardless of the covering.
>
> Well, this is the crux of my point. If indoor ply WERE sufficiently
> "encased" in poly, or some epoxy/plastic coating, COULD it become
> weather-proof? And at what cost?

For your stated purpose, and IME, your best be would be an APA rated
exterior plywood coated with a water proofing "system" made specifically
for the purpose, like this PolyCoat product :

http://www.bestmaterials.com/PDF_Files/Polydeck_400.pdf

--
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Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 7/7/2011 3:52 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
>> Awl --
>>
>> I'm looking to make a 4 ft x 6 ft base for some apparatus, out of 1/2"
>> plywood, for outdoor use.
>> It works well indoors, but I'm wondering if I can make it *truly*
>> waterproof
>> for outdoor use, with enough coats of poly, epoxy, or some clear plastic
>> coating-type finishes I've seen.
>>
>> Not that familiar with wood/coatings, beyond having done my floors with a
>> water-based poly+catalyst, with mixed results.
>>
>> Also, I know there's HD 1/2 plywood, which you can break across your
>> knee,
>> and there is real 1/2 ply, from a lumber yard. Are there even
>> harder/stiffer grades? I'm not necessarily looking for furniture-grade
>> plywood, but maybe that is indeed the stiffest. Cost, bang for the buck
>> is
>> a factor.
>> Maybe other "engineered products"?
>>
>> Appreciate all input.
>
> You simply do not give enough information for anyone to make an informed
> response that will stand the test of time.

First, thanks to all who responsed, and I'll answer the points raised here,
point-for-point, and others.

>
> What is the "base" being used for?

A fitness-type "jungle jim", for hanging, swinging, etc.

>
> Is proposed plywood being installed horizontally (as with a subfloor) or
> vertically (as with siding)?

Horizontally, and in contact with backyard-type stuff: grass, soil, sand,
concrete, etc.

>
> Will it be carrying weight?

Bodyweight, from kids up to 500# adults.
Which would sort of require that whatever surface is supporting this base be
pretty level, uniform.

>
> If so, what is the sub-structure, and how much weight?

The units I've made already use "regular" 1/2 ply, which by itself is
absolutely inadequate for the job.
But because of "guy poles" (think guy wires, but rigid), and various gusset
plates, there is surprisingly little stress (at least bending stress) on the
ply. It serves more as a platform for screws/bolts, for the rigidifying
members..
The net result is to keep the apparatus itself from tipping over.

>
> Will any part of it be directly exposed to the weather?

All of it, year-round..

>
> That said, there is really no reason to use indoor plywood outdoors, and
> to do so will ultimately be unsatisfactory regardless of the covering.

Well, this is the crux of my point. If indoor ply WERE sufficiently
"encased" in poly, or some epoxy/plastic coating, COULD it become
weather-proof? And at what cost?

I understand, now, from the other replies, that it would be better to start
off with a more appropriate class of plywood.
Really, the Q was sort of two part, asking about plywoods, and the
effectiveness of coatings.

Wolmanized wood sounds intriguing.
http://gawain.membrane.com/decks/lumber_and_pressure_treated_lumber/wolmanized_wood.html
has a succinct description, and reflects what Jack was saying about
wolmanized wood.

There are other solutions, which includes making the base out of aluminum
plate, which I am actually in the process of doing, as a test.
Not cheap, tho, altho when one factors in the whole finishing process
required for wood (or perhaps the cost of wolmanized PT lumber -- haven't
priced this out yet), mebbe alum plate won't be that far off, price-wise.

>
> There are any number of types and dimensions of plywood/sheet goods made
> for "exterior" use, which will serve you better.
>
> Also, the very same folks who supply HD and Lowes with sheet goods also
> supply "lumber yards" with same (and just because you buy sheet goods at a
> lumber yard doesn't mean it will be quality merchandise, particularly in
> this day and age), so don't rule out the big box stores for good buys on
> sheet goods. CAVEAT: you need to be familiar with the materials, and how
> they are made, to determine what is acceptable.

It's hard to imagine HD supplying ANYTHING of quality.
My understanding is that even reputable power tool companies (Bosch et al)
make HD versions.
But indeed, caveat emptor, and the more one knows, the better one can buy.
Easier said than done, however.

I am, however, a big fan of the Husky compressors that HD carries. Have
bought two, VERY quiet units (for compressors), and so far so good.
--
EA





>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 4/15/2010
> KarlC@ (the obvious)

"Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 7/7/2011 4:52 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
>
> > I'm looking to make a 4 ft x 6 ft base for some apparatus, out of 1/2"
> > plywood, for outdoor use. It works well indoors, but I'm wondering if
> I can make it *truly* waterproof for outdoor use, with enough coats of
> poly, epoxy, or some clear plastic
> > coating-type finishes I've seen.
>
> Wood is pretty much waterproof already, glue not so much. Outdoor plywood
> uses water resistant glue, so it won't come apart so easily. Marine
> plywood uses a good quality water proof glue and has no gaps in the
> veneers for water to hide in. Marine plywood is rather pricy and probably
> not needed for "some apparatus", whatever that is. I have bought 3/4
> wolmanized plywood at my home depot, and used it for the walls on my
> swimming pool. It has held up fine w/o any finish.

You put this wood IN the pool, to actually contain the water mass??
Details, please!!

And I guess this is not that unusual, given wooden-hulled boats, and the
roof-top water tanks you see in NYC.

What types of wood are used in wood boats, water tanks?


If I
> were making a "base for some apparatus" I'd likely look into the 3/4"
> wolmanized stuff. I would not likely use 1/2 inch for a base.

Weight is an issue, and it appears that structurally, I can get away with
1/2".
3/4" is of course an option, perhaps "heavier duty" versions".

>
> > Not that familiar with wood/coatings, beyond having done my floors
> with a water-based poly+catalyst, with mixed results.
>
> The nice thing about the wolmanized stuff is there is no need to try to
> protect it with finish. You can finish it for looks,with paint or stain,
> but that is up to you. Actually, I guess that's true with any quality
> outdoor plywood.
>
> > Also, I know there's HD 1/2 plywood, which you can break across your
> > knee, and there is real 1/2 ply, from a lumber yard.
>
> All plywood is "real".
>
> > Are there even harder/stiffer grades? I'm not necessarily looking for
> > furniture-grade plywood, but maybe that is indeed the stiffest
>
> Yeah, 3/4" is stiffer, but really, there are a myriad of grades of
> plywood, and all sorts of different cores for different purposes.
> furniture grade is not what you are looking for outdoor use for an
> "apparatus" base.

I was under the impression that for a given thickness, the more layers in
the ply, the stiffer it was.
However, I was actually testing pieces of ply I have laying around, and a
3-layer ply was signficantly stiffer than a piece of 4 layer ply, both 1/2"
And just now I roughly tested two pieces of 3/4 ply, one with *eleven
layers*, the other with 5, and the 5 layer piece feels a little more rigid!!

So I guess that theory is not reliably true.

>
> . Cost, bang for the buck is a factor.
>
> My home depot often has great quality plywood at great prices, but not all
> the time. Right now they have some sort of "heat treated" stuff on sale
> I've never seen before. It's red-ish stuff, I think outdoor.
> I'd look into it if I were building an outdoor base for an apparatus.

I'll check it out.
--
EA


>
> --
> Jack
> Got Change: Democratic Republic ======> Banana Republic!
> http://jbstein.com

"Martin Eastburn" wrote:


> Why not use marine ply. No voids in or out and the
> glue is 100% waterproof.
-----------------------------------------
Price out a sheet of 3/4" Oakume (Marine ply).

Definitely overpriced for the application.

Lew

DUH!!!

It's "Okoume", dummy.
-------------------------------

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Martin Eastburn" wrote:
>
>
>> Why not use marine ply. No voids in or out and the
>> glue is 100% waterproof.
> -----------------------------------------
> Price out a sheet of 3/4" Oakume (Marine ply).
>
> Definitely overpriced for the application.
>
> Lew
>
>

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:74381885-d49d-4b01-8df3-b5e81081170f@x41g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Jul 9, 11:21 pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Martin Eastburn" wrote:
> > Why not use marine ply. No voids in or out and the
> > glue is 100% waterproof.
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Price out a sheet of 3/4" Oakume (Marine ply).
>
> Definitely overpriced for the application.
>
> Lew

I once thought to buy a sheet to use as a bottom for a trash
trailer.... Forgot the thickness I was quoted but it was over $ 300.00

So... no.

======================================

Heh, dat makes aluminum plate a no-brainer!
Proly WITH anodization!!!
--
EA

"Existential Angst" wrote:

> Heh, dat makes aluminum plate a no-brainer!
> Proly WITH anodization!!!

-------------------------------------
Not necessarily.

Some 2" urethane foam, some 17OZ double bias glass, and some
laminating epoxy and you're done.

Slop on a coat of outdoor latex for UV protection.

Time for a beer.

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Existential Angst" wrote:
>
>> Heh, dat makes aluminum plate a no-brainer!
>> Proly WITH anodization!!!
>
> -------------------------------------
> Not necessarily.
>
> Some 2" urethane foam, some 17OZ double bias glass, and some laminating
> epoxy and you're done.
>
> Slop on a coat of outdoor latex for UV protection.
>
> Time for a beer.

So you are saying, essentially, to make the base from scratch?
Any more details, sources for doing something like this? Sounds
interesting, economical, lightweight.
--
EA


>
> Lew
>
>

"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> says...
>>
>> Awl --
>>
>> I'm looking to make a 4 ft x 6 ft base for some apparatus, out of 1/2"
>> plywood, for outdoor use.
>> It works well indoors, but I'm wondering if I can make it *truly*
>> waterproof
>> for outdoor use, with enough coats of poly, epoxy, or some clear plastic
>> coating-type finishes I've seen.
>>
>> Not that familiar with wood/coatings, beyond having done my floors with a
>> water-based poly+catalyst, with mixed results.
>>
>> Also, I know there's HD 1/2 plywood, which you can break across your
>> knee,
>> and there is real 1/2 ply, from a lumber yard. Are there even
>> harder/stiffer grades? I'm not necessarily looking for furniture-grade
>> plywood, but maybe that is indeed the stiffest. Cost, bang for the buck
>> is
>> a factor.
>> Maybe other "engineered products"?
>>
>> Appreciate all input.
>
> I didn't see anybody asking questions, but there are some that are
> relevant.

Swingman did!! See my first response to him, but I'll address your
specifics as well.

>
> When you say "outdoor use", that covers a lot of territory.
>
> Are you going to be putting it on smooth pavemement, a well tended lawn,
> an irregular surface, a beach, rocks, or what?

All of the above.
Altho, for truly irregular surfaces, they would have to be evened out
somewhat, bec altho my intended base is rigid enough for the "use stresses",
that is sort of predicated on a uniform surface, altho that surface could be
anything.
Of course, if I really beefed up the base, the surface wouldn't need to be
regular, but that would bump up the $$

>
> How long will it be exposed? Is this something you're going to pull out
> once in a while and then put back, or is it going to stay outside
> permanently? If permanently, how long does it have to last? A day? A
> week? A month? A year? A decade? All eternity?

Ideally, an eternity, permanent outside exposure.
Practically, 10 years.
An all aluminum/SS version would meet this, but it starts getting heavy,
expensive.

>
> Does it need to be portable? If so, how portable? A five year old can
> lift it and carry it away? An adult? Two adults? Four adults? A
> lift-gate truck? A crane?

Total weight, 100#, give or take. Thus it can be shoved around, with not
much drama, but not by a 5 y.o.

>
> An ordinary sheet of Home Depot exterior plywood (it's much like other
> standard-graded exterior plywood--if you can break one piece of half-
> inch douglas-fir ply across you knee you can break all of them) without
> any protection should be able to survive outdoors in ground contact for
> several years--how many is going to depend on the environment--it will
> be longer in Death Valley than in the Everglades or Seattle but it's not
> something I'd try to quantify beyond "several years".
>
> Pressure treated plywood (should be able to find that at Home Depot as
> well) will last longer obviously.
>
> Painting it will prolong its life even more. As a general rule you want
> a pigmented exterior coating--clear polyurethane and other such are
> remarkable products but no clear coating is going to hold up as well
> under UV exposure outdoors as a pigmented one. Follow the
> manufacturer's recommendations for primer and whatnot.
>
> Hardwood ply will be stronger but finding it with exterior glue may be
> problematical. Marine plywood is a very, very high grade, but it's not
> cheap and may be overkill for your needs.
>
> Doing it "right" you would use ground-contact rated lumber for the
> actual ground contact, put some pressure treated stringers on top of
> that, and put your ply on top of the stringers, so it gets some air
> circulation and won't be wet all the time, and paint it all with a good
> grade of house paint (or you could go hog wild with Awlgrip or another
> 2K marine coating but that's serious overkill). That's going to be
> heavy and bulky though and for something that you want to be easily
> portable and that doesn't have to last very long would be excessive.

Iow, if the base is 4 x 6, use mebbe three 6' ground-contact 2x4s (or
thinner?), four or five 4' stringers across those (1x2?), and then the ply?
I think the weight will come within range, and all those cross member+ply
would certainly add to the rigidity.
Food for thought.
--
EA

Jack Stein <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

*snip*

>
> Also, my HD always has good lumber. The biggest problem I see is
> pricing. For example, they always sell 2x6's cheaper than the same
> grade of 1x6. At first, I thought it was a mistake, I even mentioned
> it to a sales guy once. It's been like this for at least a year or
> two, so it's on purpose.
>

*snip*

You're probably looking at volume cost savings. The 2x6s can be used in a
lot of construction, while the 1x6s are more of a finish thing. For
woodworking, it works out for those with a little patience and a planer.
Get the cheaper 2x6, resaw it and plane to 5/8".

Puckdropper

"Existential Angst" wrote:

> So you are saying, essentially, to make the base from scratch?
> Any more details, sources for doing something like this? Sounds
> interesting, economical, lightweight.

-------------------------------------
Find a fiberglass, resin distributor in your area.


Probably $200-$300 gets the job done for a 4' x 6' x 2" panel.

Lew

"Martin Eastburn" wrote:

>I heard $75 the other day on TV.
>
> So maybe you have no idea of today.
------------------------------------
Reminds me of the used car dealer in Tampa on TV advertising "Clean
Northern Cars".

Lew

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jack Stein wrote:
>> On 7/9/2011 1:48 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
>>
>>> It's hard to imagine HD supplying ANYTHING of quality.
>>
>> That seems to be a common imagination. However, last year I went to
>> HD to buy a sheet of cheap $18 3/4" ply for the base of a wood rack.
>> Instead, I found a pile of 3/4" ply on sale for $23 a sheet. The $18
>> stuff was junk, looked like cheap CDX, (which is supposed to be junk,
>> regardless of where you buy it.) For just $5 a sheet more I passed on
>> the cheap stuff. This was high quality, AB stuff with no voids. I
>> bought it, but felt a little guilty putting this stuff as a base on a
>> wood rack.
>>
>> Also, my HD always has good lumber. The biggest problem I see is
>> pricing. For example, they always sell 2x6's cheaper than the same
>> grade of 1x6. At first, I thought it was a mistake, I even mentioned
>> it to a sales guy once. It's been like this for at least a year or
>> two, so it's on purpose.
>>
>
> You're right Jack - HD does carry a lot of qualtity stuff - and not just
> lumber. From EA's few comments, it's pretty clear he just wants to rag on
> HD. His choice, but it doesn't make his comments meaningful.

Like most of the semantically handicapped, you confuse "meaningful-ness"
with correctness.

>
>>
>>> My understanding is that even reputable power tool companies (Bosch
>>> et al) make HD versions.
>
> EA's "understanding" (whatever that means...) is just wrong. Perhaps EA
> should research his "understandings" some.
>
>>
>> I never heard that before. I heard that about Sears though, Sears
>> brand tools are cheaper versions of brand name tools. Could be true
>> though, I usually buy off the internet for tax reasons.
>
> HD does not have any tools or other products manufactured for them, other
> than exclusive labels. Any standard label is the same thing you would buy
> anywhere else.

And you know -- or understand -- this, just how?? Are you a hardware/tool
distributor insider?
Are you a power tool manufacturer?
If not, then your understanding is at least as suspect as mine is.

My understanding comes from trade journals that guys in the hardware biz (
who I trust) have quoted me.
My understanding is that mfr's are more than willing to play this game,
because in addition to making cheaper tools (either for higher profit, or
just acceding to Big Box pressure tactics), they can also wiggle out of
price matching/warrantees based oh-so imperceptible diffs in the actual
model numbers.

Now, I can't cite examples, but, fwiw, this is my "understanding".
If it's wrong, it's wrong, but then YOU will have to substantiate YOUR
"better understanding".

And while I'm "ragging" on HD, let me rag a little further with what I not
only understand but absolutely KNOW:
You can get better prices on many many power tools (Bosch, for one) -- and
MANY other items, incl lumber -- at a good industrial hardware store,
lumberyards, etc.
And cheaper hardware, bits, blades, etc, except for the shit carbide HD
sells.

So much for effingHD being in the "consumer's corner", eh?

'tis what 'tis.... yeah, I'm sure HD carries quality stuff, if nothing else
by accident. But that doesn't make them a consumer advocate, by any means.
HD is part and parcel of the erosion of our social fabric, the
dumbing/numbing down of the public. All because some bizniss-savvy
fuckheads figgered out how to centrally order/distribute shit hardware
nationwide. Whoopee......
--
EA



Sin
>
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
>

"Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Existential Angst" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> Awl --
>
> I'm looking to make a 4 ft x 6 ft base for some apparatus, out of 1/2"
> plywood, for outdoor use.
> It works well indoors, but I'm wondering if I can make it *truly*
> waterproof
> for outdoor use, with enough coats of poly, epoxy, or some clear plastic
> coating-type finishes I've seen.
>
> Not that familiar with wood/coatings, beyond having done my floors with a
> water-based poly+catalyst, with mixed results.
>
> Also, I know there's HD 1/2 plywood, which you can break across your knee,
> and there is real 1/2 ply, from a lumber yard. Are there even
> harder/stiffer grades? I'm not necessarily looking for furniture-grade
> plywood, but maybe that is indeed the stiffest. Cost, bang for the buck
> is
> a factor.
> Maybe other "engineered products"?
>
> Appreciate all input.
> --
> EA
>
> No plywood available at box stores including treated plywood is rated for
> ground contact.
> If you coated both sides and edges with fiberglass and epoxy with an
> overcoating of epoxy (or polyester resins for both coats) you would have a
> chance of lasting over two years.
> Why use wood? Why not go with a few cross pieces and decking made up of
> the plastic deck boards? It will last without change.

Definitely has potential, as a couple others have alluded to. A lot of
homework, tho, ito shapes, costs, etc.
Expediency is a bit of a priority now, but a lot of food fer thought for
later.
--
EA

>
> -- Jim in NC
>

"Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 7/11/2011 10:00 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Jack Stein wrote:
>
>>> Also, my HD always has good lumber. The biggest problem I see is
>>> pricing. For example, they always sell 2x6's cheaper than the same
>>> grade of 1x6. At first, I thought it was a mistake, I even mentioned
>>> it to a sales guy once. It's been like this for at least a year or
>>> two, so it's on purpose.
>
>> You're right Jack - HD does carry a lot of qualtity stuff - and not just
>> lumber. From EA's few comments, it's pretty clear he just wants to rag
>> on
>> HD. His choice, but it doesn't make his comments meaningful.
>
> My biggest bitch about HD, Lowe's and big box stores is they seem to have
> put all the little local guys out of business. Well, they didn't put them
> out of business, we did.

Yes indeed, ironically sad to say.


I miss my local hardware and lumber
> yards, particularly my favorite lumber yard, which always carried all
> grades of lumber but a step above the others at a slightly higher price.
>
> The main thing with them is if you don't pay attention, they will rip you
> off in a second. Some good stuff at good prices, some good stuff at bad
> prices, some bad stuff at bad prices.

And, poss. bad stuff at good prices....
Which at face value, leaves the consumer with a 75% chance of "losing the
bet".


Lumber I guess is different
> at different locales. Mine has good construction grade stuff at
> reasonable prices. Any hardwood they sell is top of the line, but you
> need to take out a new mortgage to buy it. It's all S4S and I'd grade it
> #1 select, so it would be expensive no matter where you bought it. They
> don't have any other grade of hard wood.
>
>>>> My understanding is that even reputable power tool companies (Bosch
>>>> et al) make HD versions.
>>
>> EA's "understanding" (whatever that means...) is just wrong. Perhaps EA
>> should research his "understandings" some.
>
> I dunno, I look at HD tools before I buy them off the net, and they
> certainly look the same. My last purchase was a Bosch angle drill. Looked
> and feels exactly like the one HD used to carry. I got it with $25 off
> and no taxes and free shipping, and no gas driving to HD. So I saved
> about $35-40 by buying via Amazon. I guess I'll be putting HD out of
> business, just like I put my local HW stores out of business:-(

Since the eco downturn, real estate bust, the Yonkers HD, which always had
lines of enraged customers at minimally-staffed checkouts, now has mebbe 1/4
of the clientele it used to, even at peak hours.
Now, checkout is 1/10 the hassle/drama it used to be.

HD's initial predatory strategy was to drive everyone out of business -- or
rather, have US drive everyone else out of business -- and then with us as
virtual hostages, then close 1/2 their own stores, since we are essentially
captive.
They then *immediately* DOUBLE their bottom line -- predation at its finest.

I don't know how this initial plan has unfolded, mebbe Lowe's has put a bit
of a kabosh on that strategy.
But, as a hoot, you should check out Charlie Rose's hour-long interview with
HDs Bob Nardelli, archived on Charlie's super-excellent website
charlierose.com.
One of the most masterful pieces of bullshit you will EVER see or hear. He
proclaimed HD to be a "savior" of modern Merkin cultchuh..... I swear to
god.....

He then sacked HD for $211 million..... LOL!!!!
He's CEO of some other big Fortune 100, forgot which one. Sell yer
stock.....
--
EA

>
> --
> Jack
> You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
> http://jbstein.com

On Thursday, July 7, 2011 at 3:52:24 PM UTC-5, Existential Angst wrote:
> Awl --=20
>=20
> I'm looking to make a 4 ft x 6 ft base for some apparatus, out of 1/2"=20
> plywood, for outdoor use.
> It works well indoors, but I'm wondering if I can make it *truly* waterpr=
oof=20
> for outdoor use, with enough coats of poly, epoxy, or some clear plastic=
=20
> coating-type finishes I've seen.
>=20
> Not that familiar with wood/coatings, beyond having done my floors with a=
=20
> water-based poly+catalyst, with mixed results.
>=20
> Also, I know there's HD 1/2 plywood, which you can break across your knee=
,=20
> and there is real 1/2 ply, from a lumber yard. Are there even=20
> harder/stiffer grades? I'm not necessarily looking for furniture-grade=
=20
> plywood, but maybe that is indeed the stiffest. Cost, bang for the buck =
is=20
> a factor.
> Maybe other "engineered products"?
>=20
> Appreciate all input.
> --=20
> EA

First off, working with plywood needs to consider more factors than working=
with 100% mill type lumber woods. While milled woods are solid, plywoods i=
ncorperate resins or glues to adhear and sandwicht them as to hold them tog=
ether. In plywoods, most resin/glues are "somewhat" water proof when cured =
but only if exposed to moisture for a short period of time, but will eventu=
ally break down as the duration increases. This is because wood swells when=
it absorbs moisture then contracts as the wood re-dries, thus causing the =
resin/glues to release/crack/split... forgive my over detailed captin-obvio=
us here.

Natural Resins are in the tree (the in the form of saps) which will help se=
al and hold wood long fibers together so lets just keep that in the back of=
our minds for a little while.

Plywoods are also made from thin layers of woods that go in several directi=
ons (for strenght applications) plus the adheasion layers (as mentioned) to=
hold them together in a sheet..but the point is the thiner layers of wood =
can splinter more easily and usually will at some point. So sanding and bev=
eling "rounding" exposed corners of plywood should be considerred! But beve=
ling/sanding can be a good or bad thing depending on the type and grade of =
plywoods as well as the applications (among other things).

The edges of any plywood should be the main focus on any sealing applicatio=
n and should be double-coated/sealed at minimum! But I reccomend sealing ed=
ges lastly after the surface sheeting are sealed thoroughly so that any moi=
sture can escape from the edges as the sheet sides cures. Then coat the edg=
es and focus on them.=20


Now!
In todays markets, there is a variety of alternative sealers, but in most c=
ases none of them reccomend use on plywoods due to the above and bleow reas=
on. Polyurethanes are more optionaly preferred than the exterior paints as =
an alternatives but not any more one way or the other. Most will say not re=
comended for ply woods, but cabinates often incorperate such as a protectiv=
e layer. Thus some/most urethans will say interior/exterior.

As suggested there is marine grade paints for wood as someone suggested as =
it is used on wooden boats and last a long time. But there is also the oth=
er alternatives and one I use that has not been suggested!=20
Fiberglass Resins.=20

When I worked in boat manufacturing (too many years ago, Eb****d boats) the=
y incorperated fiberglass and coated it over plywood in their boats. Of cou=
rse the plywood was all treated grade plywoods (1/2", 3/4" & 1") on the tra=
nsoms and other areas as reinforcements! But the fact of the process was th=
at it was plywood "at the core hull" and the fiberglass and resins were app=
lied over all sides and edges as a sealer and as a strengthening,harder pro=
tection factor.

Yes that would be very expensive suggestion if the fiberglass is used in ad=
dition to the wood and you did mention your budget ideals. but you could sk=
ip the fiberglass and just use the resins to seal and water proof as a bond=
ing agent due to is verstile properties.

Fiberglass resin will last for years but it has no strength by itself so it=
will crack and chip when hardened (if flexed/stressed or hit/impact), thus=
the fiberglass sheeting/covers is used for strength in normal process and =
applicaiton. But the resin (I would think and suspect) is no different than=
applying an epoxy paint for garage floors or marine pain to a surface.... =
as long as it does not flex or is impacted harshly the surface will not cra=
ck and would be water proof.

Still, I think that epoxy paints for garage floors, marine paint, or uritha=
nes would suffice and be a better all around option cost wise (as long as i=
t does not flex). After all they epoxy paints are a derrived resin of diffe=
rent formulas and chemical make up; all with the same goal....TO SEAL. Bubb=
le Gum would work for christ sakes!=20

Focusing on Resins.
The problem with using fiberglass resin is the fact that its inital window =
of cure time is very short (according to how much catalyst you add when mix=
ing). So it could start geling within minuts to an hour depending on the ty=
pe and mix. A few drops of catalyst (mixed with resin) can tacky-cure a cup=
of resin in about 20 mins and harden rubbery in 30 mins or less. The more =
you let it set the more hard and brittel it will become. Most common commer=
cial resin will cure tacky-hard (like fast dry Urethans) within 20-30 minut=
es and cure hard within 24 hrs.
Plus the fumes! Awful!
By the way----Such are the same factors you will encounter with 2 part epox=
y grage pains as well.


As everyone says, the problem with plywood is its core materials and edges,=
so any sealer would need to be applied to the edges as to help seal from a=
bsorbing moisture; that goes for any holes you drill so you would need to c=
onsider a slightly larger hole size as to accomodate a thin layer of sealer=
. You could also consider silicone caulk in the hidden areas as a extra pro=
tection.

I would menion the overlooked Polyurethanes but it will scratch and eventua=
lly give way to moisture, but it too is an alternative via (interior/exteri=
or brand).
But you should be aware that there are two formulast of Urethanes (1) water=
base and (2) Oil based.... just like in paints.
It is contraversal which one is better appled as a full sealer for plywood =
(cabinate grade) as the pro-con is considered.
Water base will have a moisture content which will absorb into wood and add=
to the overall moisture level if entirely sandwiched/coated in the sealer =
all at once so a dry time and evaporation period should be considered for t=
he wood as well. Sealing the moisture in the plywood could cause the glues =
in the plywood to break down over time as the heat and cold are exposed.

Oil base will take longer to dry and a certain amount of oils may absorb in=
the wood as well, like wise maybe causing damage to the glues or wood over=
a period of time.


So its all your call but I hope this helps in some way.

Jack Stein wrote:
> On 7/9/2011 1:48 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
>
>> It's hard to imagine HD supplying ANYTHING of quality.
>
> That seems to be a common imagination. However, last year I went to
> HD to buy a sheet of cheap $18 3/4" ply for the base of a wood rack.
> Instead, I found a pile of 3/4" ply on sale for $23 a sheet. The $18
> stuff was junk, looked like cheap CDX, (which is supposed to be junk,
> regardless of where you buy it.) For just $5 a sheet more I passed on
> the cheap stuff. This was high quality, AB stuff with no voids. I
> bought it, but felt a little guilty putting this stuff as a base on a
> wood rack.
>
> Also, my HD always has good lumber. The biggest problem I see is
> pricing. For example, they always sell 2x6's cheaper than the same
> grade of 1x6. At first, I thought it was a mistake, I even mentioned
> it to a sales guy once. It's been like this for at least a year or
> two, so it's on purpose.
>

You're right Jack - HD does carry a lot of qualtity stuff - and not just
lumber. From EA's few comments, it's pretty clear he just wants to rag on
HD. His choice, but it doesn't make his comments meaningful.

>
>> My understanding is that even reputable power tool companies (Bosch
>> et al) make HD versions.

EA's "understanding" (whatever that means...) is just wrong. Perhaps EA
should research his "understandings" some.

>
> I never heard that before. I heard that about Sears though, Sears
> brand tools are cheaper versions of brand name tools. Could be true
> though, I usually buy off the internet for tax reasons.

HD does not have any tools or other products manufactured for them, other
than exclusive labels. Any standard label is the same thing you would buy
anywhere else.


--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Jul 9, 11:21=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Martin Eastburn" wrote:
> > Why not use marine ply. =A0No voids in or out and the
> > glue is 100% waterproof.
>
> -----------------------------------------
> Price out a sheet of 3/4" Oakume (Marine ply).
>
> Definitely overpriced for the application.
>
> Lew

I once thought to buy a sheet to use as a bottom for a trash
trailer.... Forgot the thickness I was quoted but it was over $ 300.00
So... no.

-MIKE- wrote:
> On 7/14/11 11:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 23:20:27 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On 7/14/11 10:32 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> David Harmon wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:00:45 -0400 in rec.woodworking, "Mike
>>>>> Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HD does not have any tools or other products manufactured for
>>>>>> them, other than exclusive labels.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is Ryobi an "exclusive label"?
>>>>
>>>> No - and that is a foolish question. Ryobi is available a lot of
>>>> places besides HD. No Ryobi models are manufactured for HD- they
>>>> are all standard models, available anywhere else Ryobi is sold.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sure about that?
>>> http://www.ryobitools.com/where_to_buy/the_home_depot
>>
>> There are Ryobi factory outlets but I believe those are the only
>> places, at least in the US, where their tools are sold outside HD.
>
> I believe the question was whether Ryobi was an exclusive brand for HD
> and it's clear that they are. From what I can tell, they sell refurbs
> in a few internet stores. They may have been sold retail elsewhere
> but it is quite clear that HD has an exclusive retail sales deal with
> them now.
>
> It wasn't a "silly" question at all.

You are correct - it was a foolish answer - because it was incorrect. I
stand corrected, and now I'm going over to the corner for 10 minutes...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Jul 7, 4:52=A0pm, "Existential Angst" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Awl --
>
> I'm looking to make a 4 ft x 6 ft base for some apparatus, out of 1/2"
> plywood, for outdoor use.
> It works well indoors, but I'm wondering if I can make it *truly* waterpr=
oof
> for outdoor use, with enough coats of poly, epoxy, or some clear plastic
> coating-type finishes I've seen.
>
> Not that familiar with wood/coatings, beyond having done my floors with a
> water-based poly+catalyst, with mixed results.
>
> Also, I know there's HD 1/2 plywood, which you can break across your knee=
,
> and there is real 1/2 ply, from a lumber yard. =A0Are there even
> harder/stiffer grades? =A0I'm not necessarily looking for furniture-grade
> plywood, but maybe that is indeed the stiffest. =A0Cost, bang for the buc=
k is
> a factor.
> Maybe other "engineered products"?
>
> Appreciate all input.
> --
> EA

Start off with MDO maybe? With just a couple of coats of marine
enamel, signs made that way can last 20-years+

Jack Stein wrote:
> On 7/16/2011 12:55 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 20:28:47 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>> The fact is that Ryobi stores exist, so it is *not* an exclusive
>>>> HD brand.
>
>>> Yeah, ok, if you say so. semantics.
>
>>> Pick 1,000,000 people and have them drive around their cities
>>> trying to buy new Ryobi tool at anywhere other than Home Depot and
>>> get back to me.
>>
>> Goal post movement noted.
>
> He already posted a link that clearly states Ryobi makes tools
> EXCLUSIVELY for HD. Unless you missed the link, you might need to
> tell Ryobi that's not the case.

Hmm. Amazon lists over 16,000 Ryobi things for sale. There's probably even
more on Ebay.

On 7/12/2011 8:46 PM, David Harmon wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:00:45 -0400 in rec.woodworking, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote,
>>
>> HD does not have any tools or other products manufactured for them, other
>> than exclusive labels.
>
> Is Ryobi an "exclusive label"?


Yes,

http://www.ryobitools.com/community/about_us

Several years ago you could find the brand anywhere that sold power
tools, Sears, private tool dealers etc.



No. You can buy Ryobi at places other than HD although many are
reconditioned and HD is the most common supplier.

http://www.amazon.com/Ryobi-Tools-Hardware/b?ie=UTF8&node=699736

http://www.toolsnow.com/b/2569734011

http://www.cporyobi.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-ryobi-Site/default/Default-Start?ref=cpooutletsRYOlogo

On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:00:45 -0400 in rec.woodworking, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote,
>
>HD does not have any tools or other products manufactured for them, other
>than exclusive labels.

Is Ryobi an "exclusive label"?

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> Awl --
>
> I'm looking to make a 4 ft x 6 ft base for some apparatus, out of 1/2"
> plywood, for outdoor use.
> It works well indoors, but I'm wondering if I can make it *truly* waterproof
> for outdoor use, with enough coats of poly, epoxy, or some clear plastic
> coating-type finishes I've seen.
>
> Not that familiar with wood/coatings, beyond having done my floors with a
> water-based poly+catalyst, with mixed results.
>
> Also, I know there's HD 1/2 plywood, which you can break across your knee,
> and there is real 1/2 ply, from a lumber yard. Are there even
> harder/stiffer grades? I'm not necessarily looking for furniture-grade
> plywood, but maybe that is indeed the stiffest. Cost, bang for the buck is
> a factor.
> Maybe other "engineered products"?
>
> Appreciate all input.

I didn't see anybody asking questions, but there are some that are
relevant.

When you say "outdoor use", that covers a lot of territory.

Are you going to be putting it on smooth pavemement, a well tended lawn,
an irregular surface, a beach, rocks, or what?

How long will it be exposed? Is this something you're going to pull out
once in a while and then put back, or is it going to stay outside
permanently? If permanently, how long does it have to last? A day? A
week? A month? A year? A decade? All eternity?

Does it need to be portable? If so, how portable? A five year old can
lift it and carry it away? An adult? Two adults? Four adults? A
lift-gate truck? A crane?

An ordinary sheet of Home Depot exterior plywood (it's much like other
standard-graded exterior plywood--if you can break one piece of half-
inch douglas-fir ply across you knee you can break all of them) without
any protection should be able to survive outdoors in ground contact for
several years--how many is going to depend on the environment--it will
be longer in Death Valley than in the Everglades or Seattle but it's not
something I'd try to quantify beyond "several years".

Pressure treated plywood (should be able to find that at Home Depot as
well) will last longer obviously.

Painting it will prolong its life even more. As a general rule you want
a pigmented exterior coating--clear polyurethane and other such are
remarkable products but no clear coating is going to hold up as well
under UV exposure outdoors as a pigmented one. Follow the
manufacturer's recommendations for primer and whatnot.

Hardwood ply will be stronger but finding it with exterior glue may be
problematical. Marine plywood is a very, very high grade, but it's not
cheap and may be overkill for your needs.

Doing it "right" you would use ground-contact rated lumber for the
actual ground contact, put some pressure treated stringers on top of
that, and put your ply on top of the stringers, so it gets some air
circulation and won't be wet all the time, and paint it all with a good
grade of house paint (or you could go hog wild with Awlgrip or another
2K marine coating but that's serious overkill). That's going to be
heavy and bulky though and for something that you want to be easily
portable and that doesn't have to last very long would be excessive.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> On 7/14/11 11:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> > On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 23:20:27 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On 7/14/11 10:32 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> >>> David Harmon wrote:
> >>>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:00:45 -0400 in rec.woodworking, "Mike Marlow"
> >>>> <[email protected]> wrote,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> HD does not have any tools or other products manufactured for them,
> >>>>> other than exclusive labels.
> >>>>
> >>>> Is Ryobi an "exclusive label"?
> >>>
> >>> No - and that is a foolish question. Ryobi is available a lot of places
> >>> besides HD. No Ryobi models are manufactured for HD- they are all standard
> >>> models, available anywhere else Ryobi is sold.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Sure about that?
> >> http://www.ryobitools.com/where_to_buy/the_home_depot
> >
> > There are Ryobi factory outlets but I believe those are the only places, at
> > least in the US, where their tools are sold outside HD.
>
> I believe the question was whether Ryobi was an exclusive brand for HD
> and it's clear that they are. From what I can tell, they sell refurbs
> in a few internet stores. They may have been sold retail elsewhere but
> it is quite clear that HD has an exclusive retail sales deal with them
> now.
>
> It wasn't a "silly" question at all.

Apparently Ryobi has licensed the name to a Chinese outfit, for every
market except Japan. So if you want real Ryobi it seems you need to
know someone in Japan.

On 7/9/2011 5:21 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Jul 2011 14:19:22 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:

>> For your stated purpose, and IME, your best be would be an APA rated
>> exterior plywood coated with a water proofing "system" made specifically
>> for the purpose, like this PolyCoat product :
>>
>> http://www.bestmaterials.com/PDF_Files/Polydeck_400.pdf
>
> I saw these two products (Reader's Choice Top 100 Products list) in a
> remodeling mag this morning: UDF-21
> http://www.greenbuildingsupply.com/utility/showProduct/?objectID=6265
>
> http://www.ccaplaygroundsolution.com/ EPL
>
> I wonder how the three compare. Have you used any of them?
> What's the difference in durability and/or longevity between the poly,
> urethane, and epoxy systems? (if you or anyone else knows)

I used the Polydeck product about five years ago on a raised platform
for AC condenser units that had to be at FF elevation to pass code (an
Architect's design/plan), although I've seen the platform a couple of
times since, as far as I'm concerned it is simply too early to tell.

That said, it still looked brand new about a year ago ... if you can
extrapolate that to another five years, I would have to say that it was
worthwhile and cost effective, and will most likely make it longer.

My problem with most exterior oil based 'weather resistant' coatings in
this part of the country is the UV/sun just eats 'em alive. That does
not appear to have the usual effect on this product thus far.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

I heard $75 the other day on TV.

So maybe you have no idea of today.

Martin

On 7/9/2011 10:37 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Jul 9, 11:21 pm, "Lew Hodgett"<[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Martin Eastburn" wrote:
>>> Why not use marine ply. No voids in or out and the
>>> glue is 100% waterproof.
>>
>> -----------------------------------------
>> Price out a sheet of 3/4" Oakume (Marine ply).
>>
>> Definitely overpriced for the application.
>>
>> Lew
>
> I once thought to buy a sheet to use as a bottom for a trash
> trailer.... Forgot the thickness I was quoted but it was over $ 300.00
> So... no.

On 7/15/2011 5:05 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 7/15/11 4:52 PM, Robatoy wrote:

>> I once saw a cheap Black& Decker circular saw fall from the top of 8
>> levels of scaffolding, hitting every crossbar and diagonal on the way
>> down just crashing and banging, then landing on a concrete slab in a
>> pile of sandy mud just to be rolled over by a Cat D-9...and after all
>> that, it was still a useless piece of shit.
>>
>
> That was beautiful.

For some reason I started reading the message you replied to from the
bottom, without seeing who you were replying to. My bet, sight unseen
and before I scrolled up, was either Rob, or Ed P.

Bingo ... a superb judge of character, or what!? ;)

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 7/14/2011 10:32 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> David Harmon wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:00:45 -0400 in rec.woodworking, "Mike Marlow"
>> <[email protected]> wrote,
>>>
>>> HD does not have any tools or other products manufactured for them,
>>> other than exclusive labels.
>>
>> Is Ryobi an "exclusive label"?
>
> No - and that is a foolish question. Ryobi is available a lot of places
> besides HD. No Ryobi models are manufactured for HD- they are all standard
> models, available anywhere else Ryobi is sold.
>

That used to be true. Can you tell me where else other than
re-manufactured? I have not been able to locate a new retailer other
than Home Depot.

From the Ryobi web site,

Today, Ryobi Power Tools offers you more pro feature, affordable power
tools than ever, all backed by our 30-Day Satisfaction Guarantee and
2-Year Limited Warranty. We're proud to sell our tools exclusively
through The Home Depot, where the values are unbeatable, the staff is
knowledgeable and friendly - and you're just steps away from everything
else you need to enjoy your Ryobi tools to the fullest.

On 7/15/2011 6:31 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 7/14/11 11:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 23:20:27 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On 7/14/11 10:32 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>> David Harmon wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:00:45 -0400 in rec.woodworking, "Mike
>>>>>> Marlow"<[email protected]> wrote,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HD does not have any tools or other products manufactured for
>>>>>>> them, other than exclusive labels.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is Ryobi an "exclusive label"?
>>>>>
>>>>> No - and that is a foolish question. Ryobi is available a lot of
>>>>> places besides HD. No Ryobi models are manufactured for HD- they
>>>>> are all standard models, available anywhere else Ryobi is sold.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sure about that?
>>>> http://www.ryobitools.com/where_to_buy/the_home_depot
>>>
>>> There are Ryobi factory outlets but I believe those are the only
>>> places, at least in the US, where their tools are sold outside HD.
>>
>> I believe the question was whether Ryobi was an exclusive brand for HD
>> and it's clear that they are. From what I can tell, they sell refurbs
>> in a few internet stores. They may have been sold retail elsewhere
>> but it is quite clear that HD has an exclusive retail sales deal with
>> them now.
>>
>> It wasn't a "silly" question at all.
>
> You are correct - it was a foolish answer - because it was incorrect. I
> stand corrected, and now I'm going over to the corner for 10 minutes...
>

Your answer would have been right several years back. Back in 1989 I
purchased a Ryobi AP10 planer from my mom and pop tool dealer.

On 7/14/2011 11:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 23:20:27 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 7/14/11 10:32 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> David Harmon wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:00:45 -0400 in rec.woodworking, "Mike Marlow"
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote,
>>>>>
>>>>> HD does not have any tools or other products manufactured for them,
>>>>> other than exclusive labels.
>>>>
>>>> Is Ryobi an "exclusive label"?
>>>
>>> No - and that is a foolish question. Ryobi is available a lot of places
>>> besides HD. No Ryobi models are manufactured for HD- they are all standard
>>> models, available anywhere else Ryobi is sold.
>>>
>>
>> Sure about that?
>> http://www.ryobitools.com/where_to_buy/the_home_depot
>
> There are Ryobi factory outlets but I believe those are the only places, at
> least in the US, where their tools are sold outside HD.

That is true but IIRC they only offer re-manufactured.

On Sat, 09 Jul 2011 14:19:22 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 7/9/2011 12:48 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
>> "Swingman"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>
>
>>> Will any part of it be directly exposed to the weather?
>>
>> All of it, year-round..
>
>>> That said, there is really no reason to use indoor plywood outdoors, and
>>> to do so will ultimately be unsatisfactory regardless of the covering.
>>
>> Well, this is the crux of my point. If indoor ply WERE sufficiently
>> "encased" in poly, or some epoxy/plastic coating, COULD it become
>> weather-proof? And at what cost?
>
>For your stated purpose, and IME, your best be would be an APA rated
>exterior plywood coated with a water proofing "system" made specifically
>for the purpose, like this PolyCoat product :
>
>http://www.bestmaterials.com/PDF_Files/Polydeck_400.pdf

I saw these two products (Reader's Choice Top 100 Products list) in a
remodeling mag this morning: UDF-21
http://www.greenbuildingsupply.com/utility/showProduct/?objectID=6265

http://www.ccaplaygroundsolution.com/ EPL

I wonder how the three compare. Have you used any of them?
What's the difference in durability and/or longevity between the poly,
urethane, and epoxy systems? (if you or anyone else knows)

--
One word frees us of all the weight and pain of life: That word is love.
-- Sophocles

David Harmon wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:00:45 -0400 in rec.woodworking, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote,
>>
>> HD does not have any tools or other products manufactured for them,
>> other than exclusive labels.
>
> Is Ryobi an "exclusive label"?

No - and that is a foolish question. Ryobi is available a lot of places
besides HD. No Ryobi models are manufactured for HD- they are all standard
models, available anywhere else Ryobi is sold.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Sunday, April 8, 2018 at 2:21:04 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thursday, July 7, 2011 at 3:52:24 PM UTC-5, Existential Angst wrote:
> > Awl --
> >
> > I'm looking to make a 4 ft x 6 ft base for some apparatus, out of 1/2"
> > plywood, for outdoor use.
> > It works well indoors, but I'm wondering if I can make it *truly* waterproof
> > for outdoor use, with enough coats of poly, epoxy, or some clear plastic
> > coating-type finishes I've seen.
> >
> > Not that familiar with wood/coatings, beyond having done my floors with a
> > water-based poly+catalyst, with mixed results.
> >
> > Also, I know there's HD 1/2 plywood, which you can break across your knee,
> > and there is real 1/2 ply, from a lumber yard. Are there even
> > harder/stiffer grades? I'm not necessarily looking for furniture-grade
> > plywood, but maybe that is indeed the stiffest. Cost, bang for the buck is
> > a factor.
> > Maybe other "engineered products"?
> >
> > Appreciate all input.
> > --
> > EA
>
> First off, working with plywood needs to consider more factors than working with 100% mill type lumber woods.

First off, working with posts that are 6 years old needs to consider more
factors than working with posts that are current and may actually still
be monitored by the original poster.

"...order pressure treated exterior plywood from his lumberyard if
they don't stock it. Spar varnish over that, ..."

The first part "pressure-treated" plywood made sense - though NOT for
Ground Contact - but the "Spar Varnish" part may prove problematic. As
I understand it PT Wood is, essentially "wet" at the point of sale.
I've been advised that coating/painting it too soon - before it has a
chance to age and dry out - can cause it to rot.

I have NEVER seen a successful application of any plywood in contact
with the ground. Though you did not indicate ground contact in the
OP, thought to mention it just in case.

Oil-based primer, at least two coats with 24 hours to dry between and
a similar number of coats of exterior enamel (latex is fine) is how I
did my replacement garage door section. But a year of sprinklers
wetting it (Florida sunshine and humidity) started the rot again.

I built a couple of barn doors with hardwood rails and stiles and a
center web made of 1/2" OSB painted the same way and they've done very
well for three years now.

If you're finished project is laid horizontally above earth or
concrete - I would suggest you create openings to provide good air-
flow beneath the structure regardless the finish.

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 07:13:51 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

>On 7/15/2011 6:31 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 7/14/11 11:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 23:20:27 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> On 7/14/11 10:32 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>>> David Harmon wrote:
>>>>>>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:00:45 -0400 in rec.woodworking, "Mike
>>>>>>> Marlow"<[email protected]> wrote,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HD does not have any tools or other products manufactured for
>>>>>>>> them, other than exclusive labels.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is Ryobi an "exclusive label"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No - and that is a foolish question. Ryobi is available a lot of
>>>>>> places besides HD. No Ryobi models are manufactured for HD- they
>>>>>> are all standard models, available anywhere else Ryobi is sold.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure about that?
>>>>> http://www.ryobitools.com/where_to_buy/the_home_depot
>>>>
>>>> There are Ryobi factory outlets but I believe those are the only
>>>> places, at least in the US, where their tools are sold outside HD.
>>>
>>> I believe the question was whether Ryobi was an exclusive brand for HD
>>> and it's clear that they are. From what I can tell, they sell refurbs
>>> in a few internet stores. They may have been sold retail elsewhere
>>> but it is quite clear that HD has an exclusive retail sales deal with
>>> them now.
>>>
>>> It wasn't a "silly" question at all.
>>
>> You are correct - it was a foolish answer - because it was incorrect. I
>> stand corrected, and now I'm going over to the corner for 10 minutes...
>>
>
>Your answer would have been right several years back. Back in 1989 I
>purchased a Ryobi AP10 planer from my mom and pop tool dealer.

Somewhere back about there, I bought a 7 1/4" circular saw (almost junk) from
a local tools store and an RE-600 router (not junk) mail-order from Northern
Tools.

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 11:42:26 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 7/15/11 8:24 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>> Is Ryobi an "exclusive label"?
>>>>
>>>> No - and that is a foolish question. Ryobi is available a lot of places
>>>> besides HD. No Ryobi models are manufactured for HD- they are all standard
>>>> models, available anywhere else Ryobi is sold.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sure about that?
>>> http://www.ryobitools.com/where_to_buy/the_home_depot
>>
>> They're also available through Amazon, eBay, etc.
>> HD is probably the largest seller now, though.
>>
>
>Anything is available though ebay, Larry.

I know. <wink>


>The Amazon stuff is likely new-old-stock or the re-manufactured stuff.

I guess Leon looked deeper and they were all HD sales via Amazon.


>The answer to the question, are they an exclusive label, without the
>typical newsgroup war of semantics, is yes, they are exclusive to HD.

I had to think back. Yeah, I ordered my first 14.4v kit from HD, too.
Interesting. They're inexpensive but decent tools. I had an old Skil
9.6v drill motor before the Ryobi and the Ry was lights years ahead.
I also had two old B&D 3/8" VSRs with 1/2" chucks on them that, at
that time, had refused to die. Both have died smoky deaths since.


--
Learning to ignore things is one of the great paths to inner peace.
-- Robert J. Sawyer

On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 16:16:48 -0500, Steve Barker
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 7/7/2011 3:52 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
>> Awl --
>>
>> I'm looking to make a 4 ft x 6 ft base for some apparatus, out of 1/2"
>> plywood, for outdoor use.
>> It works well indoors, but I'm wondering if I can make it *truly* waterproof
>> for outdoor use, with enough coats of poly, epoxy, or some clear plastic
>> coating-type finishes I've seen.
>>
>> Not that familiar with wood/coatings, beyond having done my floors with a
>> water-based poly+catalyst, with mixed results.
>>
>> Also, I know there's HD 1/2 plywood, which you can break across your knee,
>> and there is real 1/2 ply, from a lumber yard. Are there even
>> harder/stiffer grades? I'm not necessarily looking for furniture-grade
>> plywood, but maybe that is indeed the stiffest. Cost, bang for the buck is
>> a factor.
>> Maybe other "engineered products"?
>>
>> Appreciate all input.
>
>A nice heavy coat of good old fashioned exterior paint will work
>wonders. After all, that what is on houses. Throw some sand in if you
>need traction control.
>
>PS. i'd go 3/4". 1/2" is not good for much of anything.

I'd go at least 5/8" if not 3/4", and he can order pressure treated
exterior plywood from his lumberyard if they don't stock it. Spar
varnish over that, for the flexibility if offers, should keep the
platform solid for years and years. Be sure that the finish is well
maintained.

--
Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt

On 7/7/2011 3:52 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
> Awl --
>
> I'm looking to make a 4 ft x 6 ft base for some apparatus, out of 1/2"
> plywood, for outdoor use.
> It works well indoors, but I'm wondering if I can make it *truly* waterproof
> for outdoor use, with enough coats of poly, epoxy, or some clear plastic
> coating-type finishes I've seen.
>
> Not that familiar with wood/coatings, beyond having done my floors with a
> water-based poly+catalyst, with mixed results.
>
> Also, I know there's HD 1/2 plywood, which you can break across your knee,
> and there is real 1/2 ply, from a lumber yard. Are there even
> harder/stiffer grades? I'm not necessarily looking for furniture-grade
> plywood, but maybe that is indeed the stiffest. Cost, bang for the buck is
> a factor.
> Maybe other "engineered products"?
>
> Appreciate all input.

You simply do not give enough information for anyone to make an informed
response that will stand the test of time.

What is the "base" being used for?

Is proposed plywood being installed horizontally (as with a subfloor) or
vertically (as with siding)?

Will it be carrying weight?

If so, what is the sub-structure, and how much weight?

Will any part of it be directly exposed to the weather?

That said, there is really no reason to use indoor plywood outdoors, and
to do so will ultimately be unsatisfactory regardless of the covering.

There are any number of types and dimensions of plywood/sheet goods made
for "exterior" use, which will serve you better.

Also, the very same folks who supply HD and Lowes with sheet goods also
supply "lumber yards" with same (and just because you buy sheet goods at
a lumber yard doesn't mean it will be quality merchandise, particularly
in this day and age), so don't rule out the big box stores for good buys
on sheet goods. CAVEAT: you need to be familiar with the materials, and
how they are made, to determine what is acceptable.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)

On 7/7/2011 3:52 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
> Awl --
>
> I'm looking to make a 4 ft x 6 ft base for some apparatus, out of 1/2"
> plywood, for outdoor use.
> It works well indoors, but I'm wondering if I can make it *truly* waterproof
> for outdoor use, with enough coats of poly, epoxy, or some clear plastic
> coating-type finishes I've seen.
>
> Not that familiar with wood/coatings, beyond having done my floors with a
> water-based poly+catalyst, with mixed results.
>
> Also, I know there's HD 1/2 plywood, which you can break across your knee,
> and there is real 1/2 ply, from a lumber yard. Are there even
> harder/stiffer grades? I'm not necessarily looking for furniture-grade
> plywood, but maybe that is indeed the stiffest. Cost, bang for the buck is
> a factor.
> Maybe other "engineered products"?
>
> Appreciate all input.

A nice heavy coat of good old fashioned exterior paint will work
wonders. After all, that what is on houses. Throw some sand in if you
need traction control.

PS. i'd go 3/4". 1/2" is not good for much of anything.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 16:52:24 -0400, Existential Angst wrote:

> It works well indoors, but I'm wondering if I can make it *truly*
> waterproof for outdoor use, with enough coats of poly, epoxy, or some
> clear plastic coating-type finishes I've seen.

How about marine plywood?

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 16:52:24 -0400, Existential Angst wrote:

> It works well indoors, but I'm wondering if I can make it *truly*
> waterproof for outdoor use, with enough coats of poly, epoxy, or some
> clear plastic coating-type finishes I've seen.

How about marine plywood?

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

On 7/7/2011 4:52 PM, Existential Angst wrote:

> I'm looking to make a 4 ft x 6 ft base for some apparatus, out of 1/2"
> plywood, for outdoor use. It works well indoors, but I'm wondering if
I can make it *truly* waterproof for outdoor use, with enough coats of
poly, epoxy, or some clear plastic
> coating-type finishes I've seen.

Wood is pretty much waterproof already, glue not so much. Outdoor
plywood uses water resistant glue, so it won't come apart so easily.
Marine plywood uses a good quality water proof glue and has no gaps in
the veneers for water to hide in. Marine plywood is rather pricy and
probably not needed for "some apparatus", whatever that is. I have
bought 3/4 wolmanized plywood at my home depot, and used it for the
walls on my swimming pool. It has held up fine w/o any finish. If I
were making a "base for some apparatus" I'd likely look into the 3/4"
wolmanized stuff. I would not likely use 1/2 inch for a base.

> Not that familiar with wood/coatings, beyond having done my floors
with a water-based poly+catalyst, with mixed results.

The nice thing about the wolmanized stuff is there is no need to try to
protect it with finish. You can finish it for looks,with paint or
stain, but that is up to you. Actually, I guess that's true with any
quality outdoor plywood.

> Also, I know there's HD 1/2 plywood, which you can break across your
> knee, and there is real 1/2 ply, from a lumber yard.

All plywood is "real".

> Are there even harder/stiffer grades? I'm not necessarily looking for
> furniture-grade plywood, but maybe that is indeed the stiffest

Yeah, 3/4" is stiffer, but really, there are a myriad of grades of
plywood, and all sorts of different cores for different purposes.
furniture grade is not what you are looking for outdoor use for an
"apparatus" base.

. Cost, bang for the buck is a factor.

My home depot often has great quality plywood at great prices, but not
all the time. Right now they have some sort of "heat treated" stuff on
sale I've never seen before. It's red-ish stuff, I think outdoor.
I'd look into it if I were building an outdoor base for an apparatus.

--
Jack
Got Change: Democratic Republic ======> Banana Republic!
http://jbstein.com

On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 23:16:47 +0000, Larry Blanchard wrote:

> On Thu, 07 Jul 2011 16:52:24 -0400, Existential Angst wrote:
>
>> It works well indoors, but I'm wondering if I can make it *truly*
>> waterproof for outdoor use, with enough coats of poly, epoxy, or some
>> clear plastic coating-type finishes I've seen.
>
> How about marine plywood?

Hmmmm. Seems like everything I posted to any newsgroup yesterday showed
up twice. I wonder if this will.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

"Jack Stein" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 7/7/2011 4:52 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
>
> > I'm looking to make a 4 ft x 6 ft base for some apparatus, out of 1/2"
> > plywood, for outdoor use. It works well indoors, but I'm wondering if
> I can make it *truly* waterproof for outdoor use, with enough coats of
> poly, epoxy, or some clear plastic
> > coating-type finishes I've seen.
>
> Wood is pretty much waterproof already, glue not so much. Outdoor plywood
> uses water resistant glue, so it won't come apart so easily. Marine
> plywood uses a good quality water proof glue and has no gaps in the
> veneers for water to hide in. Marine plywood is rather pricy and probably
> not needed for "some apparatus", whatever that is. I have bought 3/4
> wolmanized plywood at my home depot, and used it for the walls on my
> swimming pool. It has held up fine w/o any finish.

You put this wood IN the pool, to actually contain the water mass??
Details, please!!

And I guess this is not that unusual, given wooden-hulled boats, and the
roof-top water tanks you see in NYC.

What types of wood are used in wood boats, water tanks?


If I
> were making a "base for some apparatus" I'd likely look into the 3/4"
> wolmanized stuff. I would not likely use 1/2 inch for a base.

Weight is an issue, and it appears that structurally, I can get away with
1/2".
3/4" is of course an option, perhaps "heavier duty" versions".

>
> > Not that familiar with wood/coatings, beyond having done my floors
> with a water-based poly+catalyst, with mixed results.
>
> The nice thing about the wolmanized stuff is there is no need to try to
> protect it with finish. You can finish it for looks,with paint or stain,
> but that is up to you. Actually, I guess that's true with any quality
> outdoor plywood.
>
> > Also, I know there's HD 1/2 plywood, which you can break across your
> > knee, and there is real 1/2 ply, from a lumber yard.
>
> All plywood is "real".
>
> > Are there even harder/stiffer grades? I'm not necessarily looking for
> > furniture-grade plywood, but maybe that is indeed the stiffest
>
> Yeah, 3/4" is stiffer, but really, there are a myriad of grades of
> plywood, and all sorts of different cores for different purposes.
> furniture grade is not what you are looking for outdoor use for an
> "apparatus" base.

I was under the impression that for a given thickness, the more layers in
the ply, the stiffer it was.
However, I was actually testing pieces of ply I have laying around, and a
3-layer ply was signficantly stiffer than a piece of 4 layer ply, both 1/2"
And just now I roughly tested two pieces of 3/4 ply, one with *eleven
layers*, the other with 5, and the 5 layer piece feels a little more rigid!!

So I guess that theory is not reliably true.

>
> . Cost, bang for the buck is a factor.
>
> My home depot often has great quality plywood at great prices, but not all
> the time. Right now they have some sort of "heat treated" stuff on sale
> I've never seen before. It's red-ish stuff, I think outdoor.
> I'd look into it if I were building an outdoor base for an apparatus.

I'll check it out.

==========================

Things to note

When you check the stiffness of plywood, especially with only three
plies,there are two ply grains in one direction and only one ply grain
perpendicular to that one.

"real plywood" Many so-called "plywoods", these days, are becoming chipboard
coated with a ply of veneer on both sides. This is still called "plywood" as
it still has"plies". = "garbage board with a covering"

--

Eric

On 7/9/2011 12:48 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
...

> Well, this is the crux of my point. If indoor ply WERE sufficiently
> "encased" in poly, or some epoxy/plastic coating, COULD it become
> weather-proof? And at what cost?
...

The coating _will_ fail at some point owing to the tendency of wood to
move (and it will, though the coating will slow down moisture changes it
will still change) and in the application there's going to be structural
movement as well.

> It's hard to imagine HD supplying ANYTHING of quality.
> My understanding is that even reputable power tool companies (Bosch et al)
> make HD versions.
...

WalMart does that; afaik the BORGs don't; at least for the major
distributors. "House" branded stuff is, of course, different.

As for lumber, Boise-Cascade, Georgia-Pacific, etc., are same products
at wherever they are. As Swing says, what's different is what specific
products they're carrying--much of the box stores' inventory is imported
rather than the name brands so have to be observant. But, that's also
becoming a trend elsewhere as well, sadly. If it has the APA (formerly
American Plywood Assoc., now still use the APA initials but titled the
Engineered Wood Assoc.) grade stamp you can infer the panel from
wherever obtained will meet the standard for that grade (and that there
won't be a great deal of difference in how much "better" one vs another
is at that grade owing to competitive pricing pressure).

It would be useful likely to go review what those stamps on the sheets
actually mean and the definitions behind them.
<http://www.apawood.org/level_b.cfm?content=prd_ply_main>

Specifically towards your objective might be--

<http://www.apawood.org/level_c.cfm?content=pub_ply_libmain>

Look for

> Plywood in Hostile Environments, Physical Properties and
> Applications,Research Report 132. Information provides guidance for
> engineers and designers with attention to questions on the physical
> properties of plywood and their application in extreme conditions.
> Initial research written in 1975, udated in 2008.

--

On 7/9/2011 1:48 PM, Existential Angst wrote:

> It's hard to imagine HD supplying ANYTHING of quality.

That seems to be a common imagination. However, last year I went to HD
to buy a sheet of cheap $18 3/4" ply for the base of a wood rack.
Instead, I found a pile of 3/4" ply on sale for $23 a sheet. The $18
stuff was junk, looked like cheap CDX, (which is supposed to be junk,
regardless of where you buy it.) For just $5 a sheet more I passed on
the cheap stuff. This was high quality, AB stuff with no voids. I
bought it, but felt a little guilty putting this stuff as a base on a
wood rack.

Also, my HD always has good lumber. The biggest problem I see is
pricing. For example, they always sell 2x6's cheaper than the same
grade of 1x6. At first, I thought it was a mistake, I even mentioned it
to a sales guy once. It's been like this for at least a year or two, so
it's on purpose.

As far as Oak lumber goes, my store sells only #1 select and it is
perfect. You need a briefcase full of money to buy it, but it is
perfect stuff if you are polluted with cash.

> My understanding is that even reputable power tool companies (Bosch et al)
> make HD versions.

I never heard that before. I heard that about Sears though, Sears brand
tools are cheaper versions of brand name tools. Could be true though, I
usually buy off the internet for tax reasons.

> I am, however, a big fan of the Husky compressors that HD carries. Have
> bought two, VERY quiet units (for compressors), and so far so good.


--
Jack
Got Change: Now CHANGE IT BACK!
http://jbstein.com

On 7/9/2011 2:02 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
> "Jack Stein"<[email protected]> wrote in message

>> I have bought 3/4
>> wolmanized plywood at my home depot, and used it for the walls on my
>> swimming pool. It has held up fine w/o any finish.
>
> You put this wood IN the pool, to actually contain the water mass??
> Details, please!!

Yes, but the pool has a plastic liner so the pool water does not
actually come in contact with ply. It is exposed to the weather though,
and has extreme contact with water from normal spillage and leaks. It is
an above ground, 24x32' pool, and the ply holds in the water.

> And I guess this is not that unusual, given wooden-hulled boats, and the
> roof-top water tanks you see in NYC.

> What types of wood are used in wood boats, water tanks?

I dunno, probably everything from pine to teak. My brother made a canoe
out of orange crate wood 55 years ago, still works, and looks better
than any canoe I've come across.

>> Yeah, 3/4" is stiffer, but really, there are a myriad of grades of
>> plywood, and all sorts of different cores for different purposes.
>> furniture grade is not what you are looking for outdoor use for an
>> "apparatus" base.
>
> I was under the impression that for a given thickness, the more layers in
> the ply, the stiffer it was.

My impression as well. Also, what material is used for the inner layers
has an effect. I've seen everything from solid wood planking to some
sort of clayish looking wood putty stuff.

> However, I was actually testing pieces of ply I have laying around, and a
> 3-layer ply was signficantly stiffer than a piece of 4 layer ply, both 1/2"

I've never seen or heard of a 4 layer ply?. All ply should be odd numbered?

> And just now I roughly tested two pieces of 3/4 ply, one with *eleven
> layers*, the other with 5, and the 5 layer piece feels a little more rigid!!

Well, I've seen 3 layered ply with 1x4 solid wood planking as the core.
It was stiff.

> So I guess that theory is not reliably true.

No, just the number of ply is not the whole enchilada.

>> My home depot often has great quality plywood at great prices, but not all
>> the time. Right now they have some sort of "heat treated" stuff on sale
>> I've never seen before. It's red-ish stuff, I think outdoor.
>> I'd look into it if I were building an outdoor base for an apparatus.

> I'll check it out.

Let us know what you find out.
--
Jack
Fight Socialism.... Buy a Ford!
http://jbstein.com

Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Martin Eastburn" wrote:
>
>> I heard $75 the other day on TV.
>>
>> So maybe you have no idea of today.
> ------------------------------------
> Reminds me of the used car dealer in Tampa on TV advertising "Clean
> Northern Cars".
>
> Lew
>

What's wrong with Florida cars? Salt? Heat?

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Awl --

I'm looking to make a 4 ft x 6 ft base for some apparatus, out of 1/2"
plywood, for outdoor use.
It works well indoors, but I'm wondering if I can make it *truly* waterproof
for outdoor use, with enough coats of poly, epoxy, or some clear plastic
coating-type finishes I've seen.

Not that familiar with wood/coatings, beyond having done my floors with a
water-based poly+catalyst, with mixed results.

Also, I know there's HD 1/2 plywood, which you can break across your knee,
and there is real 1/2 ply, from a lumber yard. Are there even
harder/stiffer grades? I'm not necessarily looking for furniture-grade
plywood, but maybe that is indeed the stiffest. Cost, bang for the buck is
a factor.
Maybe other "engineered products"?

Appreciate all input.
--
EA

No plywood available at box stores including treated plywood is rated for
ground contact.
If you coated both sides and edges with fiberglass and epoxy with an
overcoating of epoxy (or polyester resins for both coats) you would have a
chance of lasting over two years.
Why use wood? Why not go with a few cross pieces and decking made up of the
plastic deck boards? It will last without change.

-- Jim in NC

On 7/11/2011 10:00 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Jack Stein wrote:

>> Also, my HD always has good lumber. The biggest problem I see is
>> pricing. For example, they always sell 2x6's cheaper than the same
>> grade of 1x6. At first, I thought it was a mistake, I even mentioned
>> it to a sales guy once. It's been like this for at least a year or
>> two, so it's on purpose.

> You're right Jack - HD does carry a lot of qualtity stuff - and not just
> lumber. From EA's few comments, it's pretty clear he just wants to rag on
> HD. His choice, but it doesn't make his comments meaningful.

My biggest bitch about HD, Lowe's and big box stores is they seem to
have put all the little local guys out of business. Well, they didn't
put them out of business, we did. I miss my local hardware and lumber
yards, particularly my favorite lumber yard, which always carried all
grades of lumber but a step above the others at a slightly higher price.

The main thing with them is if you don't pay attention, they will rip
you off in a second. Some good stuff at good prices, some good stuff at
bad prices, some bad stuff at bad prices. Lumber I guess is different
at different locales. Mine has good construction grade stuff at
reasonable prices. Any hardwood they sell is top of the line, but you
need to take out a new mortgage to buy it. It's all S4S and I'd grade it
#1 select, so it would be expensive no matter where you bought it. They
don't have any other grade of hard wood.

>>> My understanding is that even reputable power tool companies (Bosch
>>> et al) make HD versions.
>
> EA's "understanding" (whatever that means...) is just wrong. Perhaps EA
> should research his "understandings" some.

I dunno, I look at HD tools before I buy them off the net, and they
certainly look the same. My last purchase was a Bosch angle drill.
Looked and feels exactly like the one HD used to carry. I got it with
$25 off and no taxes and free shipping, and no gas driving to HD. So I
saved about $35-40 by buying via Amazon. I guess I'll be putting HD out
of business, just like I put my local HW stores out of business:-(

--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com

On 7/14/11 10:32 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> David Harmon wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:00:45 -0400 in rec.woodworking, "Mike Marlow"
>> <[email protected]> wrote,
>>>
>>> HD does not have any tools or other products manufactured for them,
>>> other than exclusive labels.
>>
>> Is Ryobi an "exclusive label"?
>
> No - and that is a foolish question. Ryobi is available a lot of places
> besides HD. No Ryobi models are manufactured for HD- they are all standard
> models, available anywhere else Ryobi is sold.
>

Sure about that?
http://www.ryobitools.com/where_to_buy/the_home_depot


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/14/11 11:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 23:20:27 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 7/14/11 10:32 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> David Harmon wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:00:45 -0400 in rec.woodworking, "Mike Marlow"
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote,
>>>>>
>>>>> HD does not have any tools or other products manufactured for them,
>>>>> other than exclusive labels.
>>>>
>>>> Is Ryobi an "exclusive label"?
>>>
>>> No - and that is a foolish question. Ryobi is available a lot of places
>>> besides HD. No Ryobi models are manufactured for HD- they are all standard
>>> models, available anywhere else Ryobi is sold.
>>>
>>
>> Sure about that?
>> http://www.ryobitools.com/where_to_buy/the_home_depot
>
> There are Ryobi factory outlets but I believe those are the only places, at
> least in the US, where their tools are sold outside HD.

I believe the question was whether Ryobi was an exclusive brand for HD
and it's clear that they are. From what I can tell, they sell refurbs
in a few internet stores. They may have been sold retail elsewhere but
it is quite clear that HD has an exclusive retail sales deal with them
now.

It wasn't a "silly" question at all.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/15/11 8:24 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>> Is Ryobi an "exclusive label"?
>>>
>>> No - and that is a foolish question. Ryobi is available a lot of places
>>> besides HD. No Ryobi models are manufactured for HD- they are all standard
>>> models, available anywhere else Ryobi is sold.
>>>
>>
>> Sure about that?
>> http://www.ryobitools.com/where_to_buy/the_home_depot
>
> They're also available through Amazon, eBay, etc.
> HD is probably the largest seller now, though.
>

Anything is available though ebay, Larry.
The Amazon stuff is likely new-old-stock or the re-manufactured stuff.
The answer to the question, are they an exclusive label, without the
typical newsgroup war of semantics, is yes, they are exclusive to HD.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/15/11 12:48 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> I had to think back. Yeah, I ordered my first 14.4v kit from HD, too.
> Interesting. They're inexpensive but decent tools. I had an old Skil
> 9.6v drill motor before the Ryobi and the Ry was lights years ahead.
> I also had two old B&D 3/8" VSRs with 1/2" chucks on them that, at
> that time, had refused to die. Both have died smoky deaths since.
>

I consider some stuff I buy to be either disposable or on long term
lease. :-)

The last uber-cheap B&D FireStorm 18v combo package I bought is still
kicking and I have knocked the shite out of them. I don't expect them to
last 15 years or more like my DeWalt circ saw, but hey. I have a Skil
corded hammer saw that I simply cannot destroy. It's been left out in
the rain... run for more than 24hrs at a time as a water pump... been
tossed off the top off wall onto the subfloor deck, tossed off a near
30' roof peak into the dirt/grass... it the zombie of power-tools.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/15/11 4:52 PM, Robatoy wrote:
> On Jul 15, 2:30 pm, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 7/15/11 12:48 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>> I had to think back. Yeah, I ordered my first 14.4v kit from HD, too.
>>> Interesting. They're inexpensive but decent tools. I had an old Skil
>>> 9.6v drill motor before the Ryobi and the Ry was lights years ahead.
>>> I also had two old B&D 3/8" VSRs with 1/2" chucks on them that, at
>>> that time, had refused to die. Both have died smoky deaths since.
>>
>> I consider some stuff I buy to be either disposable or on long term
>> lease. :-)
>>
>> The last uber-cheap B&D FireStorm 18v combo package I bought is still
>> kicking and I have knocked the shite out of them. I don't expect them to
>> last 15 years or more like my DeWalt circ saw, but hey. I have a Skil
>> corded hammer saw that I simply cannot destroy. It's been left out in
>> the rain... run for more than 24hrs at a time as a water pump... been
>> tossed off the top off wall onto the subfloor deck, tossed off a near
>> 30' roof peak into the dirt/grass... it the zombie of power-tools.
>>
>
> I once saw a cheap Black& Decker circular saw fall from the top of 8
> levels of scaffolding, hitting every crossbar and diagonal on the way
> down just crashing and banging, then landing on a concrete slab in a
> pile of sandy mud just to be rolled over by a Cat D-9...and after all
> that, it was still a useless piece of shit.
>

That was beautiful.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/15/11 7:19 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> I believe the question was whether Ryobi was an exclusive brand for HD
>> and it's clear that they are. From what I can tell, they sell refurbs
>> in a few internet stores. They may have been sold retail elsewhere but
>> it is quite clear that HD has an exclusive retail sales deal with them
>> now.
>
> The fact is that Ryobi stores exist, so it is *not* an exclusive HD brand.
>

Yeah, ok, if you say so. semantics.

Pick 1,000,000 people and have them drive around their cities trying to
buy new Ryobi tool at anywhere other than Home Depot and get back to me.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/15/11 11:55 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 20:28:47 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 7/15/11 7:19 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> I believe the question was whether Ryobi was an exclusive brand for HD
>>>> and it's clear that they are. From what I can tell, they sell refurbs
>>>> in a few internet stores. They may have been sold retail elsewhere but
>>>> it is quite clear that HD has an exclusive retail sales deal with them
>>>> now.
>>>
>>> The fact is that Ryobi stores exist, so it is *not* an exclusive HD brand.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, ok, if you say so. semantics.
>>
>> Pick 1,000,000 people and have them drive around their cities trying to
>> buy new Ryobi tool at anywhere other than Home Depot and get back to me.
>
> Goal post movement noted.

C'mon. It's an exclusive brand. I'm not the one playing semantics.
Any other brand you can find at any other store.
Shouldn't the actual "manufacturer" be the authoritative source for this
information, anyway? :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/15/2011 12:42 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

> The Amazon stuff is likely new-old-stock or the re-manufactured stuff.
> The answer to the question, are they an exclusive label, without the
> typical newsgroup war of semantics, is yes, they are exclusive to HD.

I didn't know that either, thanks for the info Mike.

I never bought a Ryobi tool but, I'd think this would be a lot different
than buying a Craftsman tool made by a brand name mfg that makes a
cheaper version of their product just for Sears. They always had shitty
parts, like a plastic gear rather than a metal gear, crap like that. I
figured this was to insure the real tools were better than the cheaper
Sears brand.

If Sears owned it's own mfg plant, I would think they would not
necessarily use the cheap plastic gear. If Ryobi makes tools
exclusively for HD, they would be more inclined to make the best product
possible at the best possible price.

Personally, I'd be more likely to buy a Ryobi knowing this than I was
before knowing this.

--
Jack
Are You Better Off Than You were 4 Trillion Dollars Ago?
http://jbstein.com

On 7/16/2011 12:55 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 20:28:47 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:

>>> The fact is that Ryobi stores exist, so it is *not* an exclusive HD brand.

>> Yeah, ok, if you say so. semantics.

>> Pick 1,000,000 people and have them drive around their cities trying to
>> buy new Ryobi tool at anywhere other than Home Depot and get back to me.
>
> Goal post movement noted.

He already posted a link that clearly states Ryobi makes tools
EXCLUSIVELY for HD. Unless you missed the link, you might need to tell
Ryobi that's not the case.

--
Jack
Please don't tell Obama what comes after a Trillion!
http://jbstein.com

On 7/16/11 7:29 AM, Jack Stein wrote:
> On 7/15/2011 12:42 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> The Amazon stuff is likely new-old-stock or the re-manufactured stuff.
>> The answer to the question, are they an exclusive label, without the
>> typical newsgroup war of semantics, is yes, they are exclusive to HD.
>
> I didn't know that either, thanks for the info Mike.
>
> I never bought a Ryobi tool but, I'd think this would be a lot different
> than buying a Craftsman tool made by a brand name mfg that makes a
> cheaper version of their product just for Sears. They always had shitty
> parts, like a plastic gear rather than a metal gear, crap like that. I
> figured this was to insure the real tools were better than the cheaper
> Sears brand.
>
> If Sears owned it's own mfg plant, I would think they would not
> necessarily use the cheap plastic gear. If Ryobi makes tools exclusively
> for HD, they would be more inclined to make the best product possible at
> the best possible price.
>
> Personally, I'd be more likely to buy a Ryobi knowing this than I was
> before knowing this.
>

I don't know who makes their stuff or where. I suspect it's the same
Asian factories that everyone else uses. It looks like they are part of
the same "brand group" as Milwaukee. All the tool companies have gotten
gobbled up by conglomerates over the past few decades. I don't know what
all that means, just to say... I wouldn't let it sway your opinion of
their quality. Ryobi still appears to be the same, cheap, plastic crap
that B&D, Porter Cable, or many other have become.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/16/11 7:51 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Jack Stein wrote:
>
>>
>> I never bought a Ryobi tool but, I'd think this would be a lot
>> different than buying a Craftsman tool made by a brand name mfg that
>> makes a cheaper version of their product just for Sears. They always
>> had shitty parts, like a plastic gear rather than a metal gear, crap
>> like that. I figured this was to insure the real tools were better
>> than the cheaper Sears brand.
>>
>> If Sears owned it's own mfg plant, I would think they would not
>> necessarily use the cheap plastic gear. If Ryobi makes tools
>> exclusively for HD, they would be more inclined to make the best
>> product possible at the best possible price.
>>
>> Personally, I'd be more likely to buy a Ryobi knowing this than I was
>> before knowing this.
>
> Their tools may be ok, but stay away from their power equipment like string
> trimmers, etc., especially the gas operated stuff. It appears that they
> have their forte, but their name should not be accepted as a universal
> statement of quality.
>

Ain't that the truth. Everybody's getting goggled up, these days.
Husqvarna used to be the $h!t when it came to weedeaters and chainsaws.
I have one that's 15 years old... still starts on two pulls after
sitting all winter. Just last year, I had to replace some rotten fuel
line... that's the only maintenance I've done on it, ever.

The guy at the parts store said they've gone downhill since getting
bought out or something similar. Of course, it might have been Stihl he
was talking about, I forget. :-) But the principle applies... not too many
companies are *improving* the quality and longevity of their products
anymore.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 7/17/2011 8:22 AM, HeyBub wrote:
> Jack Stein wrote:
>> On 7/16/2011 12:55 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 20:28:47 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>>> The fact is that Ryobi stores exist, so it is *not* an exclusive
>>>>> HD brand.
>>
>>>> Yeah, ok, if you say so. semantics.
>>
>>>> Pick 1,000,000 people and have them drive around their cities
>>>> trying to buy new Ryobi tool at anywhere other than Home Depot and
>>>> get back to me.
>>>
>>> Goal post movement noted.
>>
>> He already posted a link that clearly states Ryobi makes tools
>> EXCLUSIVELY for HD. Unless you missed the link, you might need to
>> tell Ryobi that's not the case.
>
> Hmm. Amazon lists over 16,000 Ryobi things for sale. There's probably even
> more on Ebay.

Ebay lists 10,000 Craftsman tools for sale... whats your point?

I bought a lathe chuck from Amazon once and it came to me in a package
from Harbor Freight, complete with the HF product ID number. Whomever
sold me the product via Amazon (CoKiD Supply Co), obviously simply
bought it from HF and sold it to me at a premium.

What's your point?

--
Jack
You Can't Fix Stupid, but You Can Vote it Out!
http://jbstein.com

On Sat, 09 Jul 2011 18:17:31 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 7/9/2011 5:21 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Sat, 09 Jul 2011 14:19:22 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> For your stated purpose, and IME, your best be would be an APA rated
>>> exterior plywood coated with a water proofing "system" made specifically
>>> for the purpose, like this PolyCoat product :
>>>
>>> http://www.bestmaterials.com/PDF_Files/Polydeck_400.pdf
>>
>> I saw these two products (Reader's Choice Top 100 Products list) in a
>> remodeling mag this morning: UDF-21
>> http://www.greenbuildingsupply.com/utility/showProduct/?objectID=6265
>>
>> http://www.ccaplaygroundsolution.com/ EPL
>>
>> I wonder how the three compare. Have you used any of them?
>> What's the difference in durability and/or longevity between the poly,
>> urethane, and epoxy systems? (if you or anyone else knows)
>
>I used the Polydeck product about five years ago on a raised platform
>for AC condenser units that had to be at FF elevation to pass code (an

Mine is a cheap prefab concrete slab they dropped on the ground when
they installed the condenser. I saved a couple hundred by running the
wiring myself, and lighting the unlit attic, too.


>Architect's design/plan), although I've seen the platform a couple of
>times since, as far as I'm concerned it is simply too early to tell.
>
>That said, it still looked brand new about a year ago ... if you can
>extrapolate that to another five years, I would have to say that it was
>worthwhile and cost effective, and will most likely make it longer.
>
>My problem with most exterior oil based 'weather resistant' coatings in
>this part of the country is the UV/sun just eats 'em alive. That does
>not appear to have the usual effect on this product thus far.

With the epoxy sealer and then 4 coats of other films, I sure hope
not.

I've used Superdeck's opaque concrete stain and it still looks brand
new five years later. http://goo.gl/htxaK Pressure wash, prime, and
paint/stain. It goes on like slightly thinned latex paint and is very
nice to work with.

--
One word frees us of all the weight and pain of life: That word is love.
-- Sophocles

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 23:20:27 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 7/14/11 10:32 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> David Harmon wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:00:45 -0400 in rec.woodworking, "Mike Marlow"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote,
>>>>
>>>> HD does not have any tools or other products manufactured for them,
>>>> other than exclusive labels.
>>>
>>> Is Ryobi an "exclusive label"?
>>
>> No - and that is a foolish question. Ryobi is available a lot of places
>> besides HD. No Ryobi models are manufactured for HD- they are all standard
>> models, available anywhere else Ryobi is sold.
>>
>
>Sure about that?
>http://www.ryobitools.com/where_to_buy/the_home_depot

They're also available through Amazon, eBay, etc.
HD is probably the largest seller now, though.

--
Learning to ignore things is one of the great paths to inner peace.
-- Robert J. Sawyer

Why not use marine ply. No voids in or out and the
glue is 100% waterproof.

This is wood rated to be in water when it is protected. Think boats.

It is used in flower boxes and such.

Martin

On 7/9/2011 5:21 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Sat, 09 Jul 2011 14:19:22 -0500, Swingman<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 7/9/2011 12:48 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
>>> "Swingman"<[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>>
>>>> Will any part of it be directly exposed to the weather?
>>>
>>> All of it, year-round..
>>
>>>> That said, there is really no reason to use indoor plywood outdoors, and
>>>> to do so will ultimately be unsatisfactory regardless of the covering.
>>>
>>> Well, this is the crux of my point. If indoor ply WERE sufficiently
>>> "encased" in poly, or some epoxy/plastic coating, COULD it become
>>> weather-proof? And at what cost?
>>
>> For your stated purpose, and IME, your best be would be an APA rated
>> exterior plywood coated with a water proofing "system" made specifically
>> for the purpose, like this PolyCoat product :
>>
>> http://www.bestmaterials.com/PDF_Files/Polydeck_400.pdf
>
> I saw these two products (Reader's Choice Top 100 Products list) in a
> remodeling mag this morning: UDF-21
> http://www.greenbuildingsupply.com/utility/showProduct/?objectID=6265
>
> http://www.ccaplaygroundsolution.com/ EPL
>
> I wonder how the three compare. Have you used any of them?
> What's the difference in durability and/or longevity between the poly,
> urethane, and epoxy systems? (if you or anyone else knows)
>
> --
> One word frees us of all the weight and pain of life: That word is love.
> -- Sophocles

On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 23:20:27 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 7/14/11 10:32 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> David Harmon wrote:
>>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:00:45 -0400 in rec.woodworking, "Mike Marlow"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote,
>>>>
>>>> HD does not have any tools or other products manufactured for them,
>>>> other than exclusive labels.
>>>
>>> Is Ryobi an "exclusive label"?
>>
>> No - and that is a foolish question. Ryobi is available a lot of places
>> besides HD. No Ryobi models are manufactured for HD- they are all standard
>> models, available anywhere else Ryobi is sold.
>>
>
>Sure about that?
>http://www.ryobitools.com/where_to_buy/the_home_depot

There are Ryobi factory outlets but I believe those are the only places, at
least in the US, where their tools are sold outside HD.

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 13:30:01 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 7/15/11 12:48 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> I had to think back. Yeah, I ordered my first 14.4v kit from HD, too.
>> Interesting. They're inexpensive but decent tools. I had an old Skil
>> 9.6v drill motor before the Ryobi and the Ry was lights years ahead.
>> I also had two old B&D 3/8" VSRs with 1/2" chucks on them that, at
>> that time, had refused to die. Both have died smoky deaths since.
>>
>
>I consider some stuff I buy to be either disposable or on long term
>lease. :-)

Right. And it's amazing how much of the previously considered
disposable crap lasts and lasts. I'm still using Dad's old Crapsman
circ saw, and both those B&D drills lasted over 30 years each. I just
picked up a HF hammer drill for <$24 (coupon) so we'll see how long it
lasts in hammah mode.


>The last uber-cheap B&D FireStorm 18v combo package I bought is still
>kicking and I have knocked the shite out of them. I don't expect them to
>last 15 years or more like my DeWalt circ saw, but hey. I have a Skil
>corded hammer saw that I simply cannot destroy. It's been left out in
>the rain... run for more than 24hrs at a time as a water pump... been
>tossed off the top off wall onto the subfloor deck, tossed off a near
>30' roof peak into the dirt/grass... it the zombie of power-tools.

Um, what's a hammer saw?!?

--
Learning to ignore things is one of the great paths to inner peace.
-- Robert J. Sawyer

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 00:00:43 -0500, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 7/14/11 11:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 23:20:27 -0500, -MIKE-<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/14/11 10:32 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> David Harmon wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:00:45 -0400 in rec.woodworking, "Mike Marlow"
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HD does not have any tools or other products manufactured for them,
>>>>>> other than exclusive labels.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is Ryobi an "exclusive label"?
>>>>
>>>> No - and that is a foolish question. Ryobi is available a lot of places
>>>> besides HD. No Ryobi models are manufactured for HD- they are all standard
>>>> models, available anywhere else Ryobi is sold.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sure about that?
>>> http://www.ryobitools.com/where_to_buy/the_home_depot
>>
>> There are Ryobi factory outlets but I believe those are the only places, at
>> least in the US, where their tools are sold outside HD.
>
>I believe the question was whether Ryobi was an exclusive brand for HD
>and it's clear that they are. From what I can tell, they sell refurbs
>in a few internet stores. They may have been sold retail elsewhere but
>it is quite clear that HD has an exclusive retail sales deal with them
>now.

The fact is that Ryobi stores exist, so it is *not* an exclusive HD brand.

>It wasn't a "silly" question at all.

Who said it was?