I'm a student at Keene State College in Keene, NH. I am working on a
safety program for the campus wood shop for my senior capstone class
which is needed for my bachelor's in Safety Studies.
Right now I am focusing on the spray booth and in need of some
professional help or suggestions. The booth has many problems
including no air filter and lack of fire protection. I have NFPA
documents as well as OSHA but I am looking for BEST PRACTICES, not
just what OSHA wants, since schools are not covered by them anyway. I
need to dazzle my professor as well as the Dean on a safe booth.
If anyone has any examples, material or links that are solid enough to
propose to my school it would be greatly appreciated. Also if you need
a more detailed description of the booth to make a fair assessment I
will do so.
Thank you!
"jtpr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:6af61911-b9ab-410e-91c3-52c5367429ac@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 3, 12:46 pm, Sean Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm a student at Keene State College in Keene, NH. I am working on a
> safety program for the campus wood shop for my senior capstone class
> which is needed for my bachelor's in Safety Studies.
>
> Right now I am focusing on the spray booth and in need of some
> professional help or suggestions. The booth has many problems
> including no air filter and lack of fire protection. I have NFPA
> documents as well as OSHA but I am looking for BEST PRACTICES, not
> just what OSHA wants, since schools are not covered by them anyway. I
> need to dazzle my professor as well as the Dean on a safe booth.
>
> If anyone has any examples, material or links that are solid enough to
> propose to my school it would be greatly appreciated. Also if you need
> a more detailed description of the booth to make a fair assessment I
> will do so.
>
> Thank you!
>Hey, what's up with you guys? I told my son the wreck was the place
>to go for some solid info and you're all asleep...
>Let's help get this kid graduated so I don't have to feed him for the
>next 5 years;+}
>-Jim
It might be appropriate for his "mentor" to point him toward suppliers of
the equipment in which he is interested.
Some "Googling" for spray booths and ancillary equipment should be
productive.
Max
"jtpr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:6af61911-b9ab-410e-91c3-52c5367429ac@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 3, 12:46 pm, Sean Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm a student at Keene State College in Keene, NH. I am working on a
> safety program for the campus wood shop for my senior capstone class
> which is needed for my bachelor's in Safety Studies.
>
> Right now I am focusing on the spray booth and in need of some
> professional help or suggestions. The booth has many problems
> including no air filter and lack of fire protection. I have NFPA
> documents as well as OSHA but I am looking for BEST PRACTICES, not
> just what OSHA wants, since schools are not covered by them anyway. I
> need to dazzle my professor as well as the Dean on a safe booth.
>
> If anyone has any examples, material or links that are solid enough to
> propose to my school it would be greatly appreciated. Also if you need
> a more detailed description of the booth to make a fair assessment I
> will do so.
>
> Thank you!
- Hey, what's up with you guys? I told my son the wreck was the place
- to go for some solid info and you're all asleep...
-
Actually, the wreck is not such a hot place for ideas like this. Your son
asked for Best Practices, and what one tends to find here are more opinions
on what folks do in the name of their own notion of going an extra mile.
Most times, in matters like this, they are not all that well founded ideas
and don't offer a lot of real benefit. Not that they are bad ideas or
practices, but they just aren't as beneficial as the holders of those ideas
believe. If one wants Best Practices, then one goes to the leaders in the
area in question. One examines what those "leaders" do, and compiles a list
of Best Practices based on real value. Not so likely that he would find
that kind of expertise here. Even those of us who paint a lot probably
would not consider ourselves much in the area of contributing to a Best
Practices definition.
- Let's help get this kid graduated so I don't have to feed him for the
- next 5 years;+}
Only 5 years? How are you so lucky as to escape with such a short sentence?
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Nov 4, 9:28=A0am, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
> jtpr wrote:
>
> ...
>
> >> ... I am looking for BEST PRACTICES, not
> >> just what OSHA wants, since schools are not covered by them anyway. =
=A0I
> >> need to dazzle my professor as well as the Dean on a safe booth.
>
> ...
>
> I tend to agree w/ the answer posted by Mike altho I'm sure some of
> those here have a fair amount of experience at least...
>
> I'd only comment on the above "need to dazzle" as being a typical
> thought/intent of the student of how to impress. =A0What I'd suggest
> instead of what that implies to me of "gee-whiz every new bell and
> whistle the manufacturers have in their catalogs" is _IF_ (yet again w/
> the proverbial "big if" :) ) the point is to really provide something
> useful for the department as a result of the project to concentrate on
> meeting two objectives --
>
> 1) the regulatory and safety issues wherein OSHA/EPA/NFPA/etc. come into
> play, and
>
> 2) effectiveness and efficiency of the booth area for the usage it gets
> and purposes it serves.
>
> In accomplishing these objectives, I would give highest marks on
> innovative and cost-effective techniques for achieving the goals rather
> than more emphasis on necessarily "dazzling" products possible to
> acquire if on unlimited budget.
>
> As was discussed in another thread within the last day or so, I'm
> closely associated w/ a community college/tech school Foundation whose
> mission is to provide such support and enable enhancements for the
> institution and students. =A0Endowment and other resources are always
> limited and are even more so at the moment for us and all such
> organizations given the happenings in the financial markets and the
> current economic situation. =A0Hence, figuring out how to get "most bang
> for the buck" into the project will, imo, both impress those looking at
> the work as well as have the most likelihood of producing something that
> might actually be of some use to the institution itself. =A0(Assuming, of
> course, that is an objective).
>
> $0.02, imo, ymmv, etc., etc., etc., of course...
>
> --
I understand, every idea we come across we do a cost benefit analysis
to make sure it is presentable to the school.
The building the wood shop and spray booth are in is going to be
renovated and the budget is fairly substantial thanks to the ever
rising amount of tuition...
I am still grateful for your help though.
On Nov 3, 12:46=A0pm, Sean Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm a student at Keene State College in Keene, NH. =A0I am working on a
> safety program for the campus wood shop for my senior capstone class
> which is needed for my bachelor's in Safety Studies.
>
> Right now I am focusing on the spray booth and in need of some
> professional help or suggestions. =A0The booth has many problems
> including no air filter and lack of fire protection. =A0I have NFPA
> documents as well as OSHA but I am looking for BEST PRACTICES, not
> just what OSHA wants, since schools are not covered by them anyway. =A0I
> need to dazzle my professor as well as the Dean on a safe booth.
>
> If anyone has any examples, material or links that are solid enough to
> propose to my school it would be greatly appreciated. Also if you need
> a more detailed description of the booth to make a fair assessment I
> will do so.
>
> Thank you!
Hey, what's up with you guys? I told my son the wreck was the place
to go for some solid info and you're all asleep...
Let's help get this kid graduated so I don't have to feed him for the
next 5 years;+}
-Jim
On Nov 4, 7:34=A0am, jtpr <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Nov 3, 12:46=A0pm, Sean Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I'm a student at Keene State College in Keene, NH. =A0
>
> Hey, what's up with you guys? =A0I told my son the wreck was the place
> to go for some solid info and you're all asleep...
I know, it is totally bizarre that all of the creaky characters on the
wreck sleep at night.
BTW, I'm pretty sure it is spelled keen, that New Hampshire is a
protectorate and not a state (unless it is a state of mind (Don't
Tread On Me!), that you don't have a son, the kid doesn't have a dad,
and that you're lying about getting solid info on the wreck. ;)
R
Read everything dpb said. That's the best way to approach this.
Since at one time my finishing/refinishing was going quite well, I was
thinking of renting a space and setting up a small finishing/
refinishing shop. The amount of work it would have taken to get all
the proper clearances to certify I was compliant in all government
areas was overwhelming.
I cannot imagine it being any different for a public institution. The
following had their hand in every aspect, and lacking any other
benchmark, our fair city used them as such for their own requirements.
NIOSH, OSHA and EPA. Then there were local and state building code
requirements specific to the venture.
Some of the more salient requirements were to have a have a certified
booth that included the proper CFM of air filtering and exchange. I
couldn't touch the $$$ building one, but I found these types of
premade booths to be a much better solution:
http://www.aeipaintbooths.com/
http://skbowling.com/
http://www.aframe-paint-booth.com/
You get the idea.
Most premade booths are just that, booths. You still need to provide
the proper gas proof low temp lighting, a spark proof set of fans to
prevent explosions, etc. Spark proof plugs and switches are required,
as well as chemical/gas resistant coverings on all electrical devices
and wiring. Then there is filtering of the air. In a booth you have
to have all the air removed, and filtered to a very exacting protocol.
There are different certifications needed on the exhaust systems, and
depending on the level of sophistication of your local code
enforcement, this could be tricky.
There is a cert for particulates; there is a cert for gas; and there
is in some cases a need for an engineered system by a certified
engineer in that field.
One of the things that I was faced with was the disposal of old
solvents and finishes, as well as old rags, filters, and containers.
I would have had to make arrangements with a local "hazardous waste
management" company to get rid of that stuff, and provide the local
guys with proof I did.
And then there was insurance. I had to provide certificates of
compliance in all areas mentioned above before they would consider
me. That meant I had to have another group of independent
professionals come out and inspect the final set up to make sure it
was compliant to the company standards, and that all applicable
standards had been met.
I hope you get the idea. This is a really big project once you get
past a booth big enough to spray a chair.
With all the legal hoops, the design requirements, the proof of
compliance to all govt regulations, and the cost to build... I gave
up.
Can you see why no one jumped right in?
Robert
jtpr wrote:
...
>> ... I am looking for BEST PRACTICES, not
>> just what OSHA wants, since schools are not covered by them anyway. I
>> need to dazzle my professor as well as the Dean on a safe booth.
...
I tend to agree w/ the answer posted by Mike altho I'm sure some of
those here have a fair amount of experience at least...
I'd only comment on the above "need to dazzle" as being a typical
thought/intent of the student of how to impress. What I'd suggest
instead of what that implies to me of "gee-whiz every new bell and
whistle the manufacturers have in their catalogs" is _IF_ (yet again w/
the proverbial "big if" :) ) the point is to really provide something
useful for the department as a result of the project to concentrate on
meeting two objectives --
1) the regulatory and safety issues wherein OSHA/EPA/NFPA/etc. come into
play, and
2) effectiveness and efficiency of the booth area for the usage it gets
and purposes it serves.
In accomplishing these objectives, I would give highest marks on
innovative and cost-effective techniques for achieving the goals rather
than more emphasis on necessarily "dazzling" products possible to
acquire if on unlimited budget.
As was discussed in another thread within the last day or so, I'm
closely associated w/ a community college/tech school Foundation whose
mission is to provide such support and enable enhancements for the
institution and students. Endowment and other resources are always
limited and are even more so at the moment for us and all such
organizations given the happenings in the financial markets and the
current economic situation. Hence, figuring out how to get "most bang
for the buck" into the project will, imo, both impress those looking at
the work as well as have the most likelihood of producing something that
might actually be of some use to the institution itself. (Assuming, of
course, that is an objective).
$0.02, imo, ymmv, etc., etc., etc., of course...
--
Sean Ryan wrote:
...
> If anyone has any examples, material or links that are solid enough to
> propose to my school it would be greatly appreciated. Also if you need
> a more detailed description of the booth to make a fair assessment I
> will do so.
As one additional amplification of my previous post--
If you haven't yet either got a detailed prospectus of the content and
objectives of your project discussed and approved I'd suggest an
appointment w/ advisor/prof/the_however_your_dept_handles_it_person and
come to a specific documented agreement as to what is the actual point
of the research.
Are you, indeed, attempting to write an actual proposal that could
realistically be implemented and if so, what are the budget and other
project constraints within which your project would have to fit? That's
one type of project, more like what I had in mind in previous posting.
If, otoh, it really is a "blue-sky, wouldn't it be nice if" kind of
exercise, that's also a possibility that a Department or College could
investigate in a more exploratory vein. One need to have a vision and a
plan if there is some major expansion or building campaign or somesuch
similar idea floating around.
The point is, you need to have a specific objective in mind.
The other thing I'd suggest, particularly if the first of the two
directions is more nearly the idea is to talk with folks who are
knowledgeable in two areas--first, the staff who are currently
responsible for the present facility and its operation and compliance w/
whatever _are_ their rules regarding it, and second, the accrediting
organization for the school and/or department(s) affected if they have a
subsidiary accreditation process. These people have an inordinate
amount of leverage in all phases of academia and may well have in place
a set of guidelines and standards such facilities must meet as well as
standards of their own or references to other industry standards that
indicate what their assessment of ideal is. Then, otoh, they may not,
but I'd surely investigate to know/find out. One thing you would
definitely _not_ want to do would be to recommend something in
contradiction w/ such guidelines (or to point out deficiencies in
existing facilities might also be quite embarrassing if one didn't at
least know a priori one was doing same).
Oh, one other thought...is this, indeed, a woodworking finishing
facility and what kind(s) of work? I'd also suggest you look at other
schools of renown and find out what they're doing in similar programs.
That is, what would be suitable for a program concentrated on commercial
furniture manufacturing or similar would undoubtedly be quite different
from the needs of a program concentrating on fine cabinetmaking or
artistic woodworking.
W/O knowing any specifics of your programs I'll not even try to list
comparable institutions; you surely have far better knowledge to find
suitable ones...
Good luck...
--
Sean Ryan wrote:
...
> The building the wood shop and spray booth are in is going to be
> renovated and the budget is fairly substantial thanks to the ever
> rising amount of tuition...
...
Hmmm...few institutions I'm aware of actually cover all costs via
tuition... :)
But, given that as the background, I'd reiterate the suggestion to look
at other recognized institutions w/ similar programs to those offered or
intended to be offered for ideas. Again, no indication of what the
emphasis is so don't know if this would be something like NC State's
industrial program or the North Bennett Street School.
--
jtpr wrote:
> Hey, what's up with you guys? I told my son the wreck was the place
> to go for some solid info and you're all asleep...
Would love to help if I could. while I'm a somewhat competent woodworker
and cabinetmaker, that doesn't qualify me with much expertise in spray
booth's to advise ... except to lust after enough space to have one.
> Let's help get this kid graduated so I don't have to feed him for the
> next 5 years;+}
Feel your pain in that regard. Mine youngest is contemplating moving
back home due to the almost impossible task of finding a "job", as
opposed to "work" ... a distinction the current administration has
apparently not snapped to yet when reporting rosily on job creation.
Prepare yourself for the same ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"jtpr" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:6af61911-b9ab-410e-91c3-52c5367429ac@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 3, 12:46 pm, Sean Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm a student at Keene State College in Keene, NH. I am working on a
> safety program for the campus wood shop for my senior capstone class
> which is needed for my bachelor's in Safety Studies.
>
> Right now I am focusing on the spray booth and in need of some
> professional help or suggestions. The booth has many problems
> including no air filter and lack of fire protection. I have NFPA
> documents as well as OSHA but I am looking for BEST PRACTICES, not
> just what OSHA wants, since schools are not covered by them anyway. I
> need to dazzle my professor as well as the Dean on a safe booth.
>
> If anyone has any examples, material or links that are solid enough to
> propose to my school it would be greatly appreciated. Also if you need
> a more detailed description of the booth to make a fair assessment I
> will do so.
>
> Thank you!
Hey, what's up with you guys? I told my son the wreck was the place
to go for some solid info and you're all asleep...
Let's help get this kid graduated so I don't have to feed him for the
next 5 years;+}
PERHAPS if you directed him to a bit more appropriate group, Professional
spray booth maybe, especially if you want something with better guide line
spec's than OSHA.
On Wed, 4 Nov 2009 04:34:55 -0800 (PST), jtpr <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Nov 3, 12:46 pm, Sean Ryan <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I'm a student at Keene State College in Keene, NH. I am working on a
>> safety program for the campus wood shop for my senior capstone class
>> which is needed for my bachelor's in Safety Studies.
>>
>> Right now I am focusing on the spray booth and in need of some
>> professional help or suggestions. The booth has many problems
>> including no air filter and lack of fire protection. I have NFPA
>> documents as well as OSHA but I am looking for BEST PRACTICES, not
>> just what OSHA wants, since schools are not covered by them anyway. I
>> need to dazzle my professor as well as the Dean on a safe booth.
>>
>> If anyone has any examples, material or links that are solid enough to
>> propose to my school it would be greatly appreciated. Also if you need
>> a more detailed description of the booth to make a fair assessment I
>> will do so.
>>
>> Thank you!
>
>Hey, what's up with you guys? I told my son the wreck was the place
>to go for some solid info and you're all asleep...
>
>Let's help get this kid graduated so I don't have to feed him for the
>next 5 years;+}
>
>-Jim
Helping design, install and commission an automotive paint line was actually one of my first
assignments as a newly minted engineer. The plant was located about half a mile directly upwind of
the newly created state EPA office. Meeting emissions requirements was a big deal, don't you see.
2 primer booths, 2 accent color booths, 3 main color booths. Electrostatic primer system, some
robots, mostly highly experienced people doing the painting. Today it would probably be all robotic
except for perhaps the final color booth. The person in that last booth was the one that ensured
those fascias would come out of the bake oven the proper color so that it matched the (metal paint
is different than polymer paint) body color when it was bolted on the car 350 miles or more away. I
think that plant was where the phrase "Shit happens" originated.
Your best bet for current info is to directly contact the vendors. Binks, Devilbiss, and many
others. I'm not sure who the major players are any more. I left the automotive arena for the
petrochemical world 30+ years ago. Contact the maker of your spray booth and see what they
recommend. Call Ford or GM and ask them about their paint lines. Probably a lot of powder coating
nowadays. Go the library. Lots of books there that will help you decide what to do.
I'm afraid it is a truism that nobody is going to give you the answer. You'll learn a lot more
figuring all this out yourself. Then 30-40 years from now when somebody asks a question like this,
you'll understand why I am answering it this way, and you will probably do the same.
Best of luck, and Regards,
Roy