I built a little project for a friend. We have these close friends with
a 5 year old grandson. Jill, the grandmother, knowing that I do some
woodworking asked me if I would build a child sized workbench for their
grandson. I agreed. Now I was doing this for fun, not money. I asked
about budget and she told me to keep the wood cost under $50.00. So off
I went.
I went to the Borg and bought about 10 8 ft long 1x4 in #2 pine.
Brought them home and went to work. 18 hours later I have a adorable
minuture workbench with a glues up top, framed in pegboard back, a
bottom shelf and two drawers. I think it looks good.
Jill comes over to look at it because it is finished and I was going to
ask about painting/sealing it. She loved it and just wants a poly
coating. So she asks about the price. She thinks I have done such a
great job I could make them and sell them and make a fortune because
they are just sooooo cute! I tell her I have $36.00 in material and 18
hours of labor. I then explain that this is why all of these kinds of
things are made in China. At $.25 per hour the labor is ony $4.00 and
people would buy it. At $25.00 and hour it comes in at about $500.00
and no one would buy it. So she gives me a check for $125.00.
Now that was fine. I did it for the fun of it not the money. So I made
$4.95 per hour. I don't think that is even minimum wage. But I had
fun.
well you are running about $4 an hour over I am currently getting. I
have been doing commissioned "prototypes" and what I have been charging
is cost of materials plus 10 - 20 percent. doing it as a learning
experience, I figure I can play with their wood, not mine. Been having
lots of fun, building stuff that i wouldn't have a need for and it is
not costing me for the materials. the 10 -15% gets me a new tool or 2
and that is fine at this point.
when I deliver I always tell then how many hours were involved and then
they understand why I don't do this to make money... at the moment.
BRuce
Joe Willmann wrote:
> I built a little project for a friend. We have these close friends with
> a 5 year old grandson. Jill, the grandmother, knowing that I do some
> woodworking asked me if I would build a child sized workbench for their
> grandson. I agreed. Now I was doing this for fun, not money. I asked
> about budget and she told me to keep the wood cost under $50.00. So off
> I went.
>
> I went to the Borg and bought about 10 8 ft long 1x4 in #2 pine.
> Brought them home and went to work. 18 hours later I have a adorable
> minuture workbench with a glues up top, framed in pegboard back, a
> bottom shelf and two drawers. I think it looks good.
>
> Jill comes over to look at it because it is finished and I was going to
> ask about painting/sealing it. She loved it and just wants a poly
> coating. So she asks about the price. She thinks I have done such a
> great job I could make them and sell them and make a fortune because
> they are just sooooo cute! I tell her I have $36.00 in material and 18
> hours of labor. I then explain that this is why all of these kinds of
> things are made in China. At $.25 per hour the labor is ony $4.00 and
> people would buy it. At $25.00 and hour it comes in at about $500.00
> and no one would buy it. So she gives me a check for $125.00.
>
> Now that was fine. I did it for the fun of it not the money. So I made
> $4.95 per hour. I don't think that is even minimum wage. But I had
> fun.
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> Sorry about the unemployment. Until this governmet stops bringing
> people into the country to take jobs away and stop the outsourcing
> nighmare it's only going to get worse.
The government does not "bring" people into this country. It does not seem
to care once they are here though.
>The yardstick of "Is it good for
> America" really needs to applied, and strenuously to the back ends of
> the companies is pursuit of greed and short-term profits.
The opportunity for a company to make a profit is the ONLY reason there are
ANY companies operating anywhere. What on earth is wrong with a company
making a profit? If you want companies to stop exporting their labor, maybe
the government could make it less costly to manufacture right here in the
good ol USofA.
>Then it
> should be turned on the politicians whose only interest is paying off
> their business friends.
No, their only interest is getting re-elected.
> "Joe Willmann" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
> > I tell her I have $36.00 in material and 18
> > hours of labor. I then explain that this is why all of these kinds of
> > things are made in China. At $.25 per hour the labor is ony $4.00 and
> > people would buy it. At $25.00 and hour it comes in at about $500.00
> > and no one would buy it. So she gives me a check for $125.00.
> >
> > Now that was fine. I did it for the fun of it not the money. So I made
> > $4.95 per hour. I don't think that is even minimum wage. But I had
> > fun.
I do mainly turning, but the idea is the same. I've got a pile of
things to do for friends before Xmas. When they ask me what it would
cost for me to make the whatever for them, I tell them the cost of the
wood. If I charge them for my time, they can't afford to give them
away. I don't work for minimum wage and since this is America, and time
is money, they need to price a pretty piece of wood buy it. I'll do the
rest. If they balk, I suggest that they do the math at my rate of pay
where we work, that stops the conversation right away. I do it as a
labor of love, and only for people I like.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
Joe Willmann wrote:
> Jill is a card. I am a unemployeed software engineer. I got laid off
> 18 months ago. She offered me the work to "help out". There have been
> several things she has offered to "help out". Her heart is in the right
> place and we love her for that but her mind sometimes isn't.
> I did the work bench for the fun of it. But I did try to talk her out
> of it. See the little boy is only 5 years old. Jill is going out today
> to buy him a hammer, some nails, screw drivers, and a saw so he will
> have some tools. I asked Jill if his father had OK'd this stuff and she
> looked at me with a wrinkled brow saying the she just couldn't imaging
> the father not loving the idea of his son having wood working tools and
> a work bench in his bedroom.
> Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Can you see a 5 year old running around with a hammer?
> And what about the 3 year old little brother?
> Should I get them to sign a release before I let them pick it up?
Sorry about the unemployment. Until this governmet stops bringing
people into the country to take jobs away and stop the outsourcing
nighmare it's only going to get worse. The yardstick of "Is it good for
America" really needs to applied, and strenuously to the back ends of
the companies is pursuit of greed and short-term profits. Then it
should be turned on the politicians whose only interest is paying off
their business friends. Sorry. <rant mode off>
People really have no clue of what it takes to make something since
they've never done it or seen it done. When the only experience is
paying for something in 1st world pennies that was made with 3rd world
labor, the reality tends to get lost. As for the kids and tools, there
had better be some real parental controls in place,or we're going to be
busy at the hospital later that night. Got any pix of the bench?
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
Joe Willmann <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I built a little project for a friend. We have these close friends with
> a 5 year old grandson. Jill, the grandmother, knowing that I do some
> woodworking asked me if I would build a child sized workbench for their
> grandson. I agreed. Now I was doing this for fun, not money. I asked
> about budget and she told me to keep the wood cost under $50.00. So off
> I went.
I don't do wood working for money, but as a PC guru, many friends and
relatives have asked me to do work for them. Here's what I've
learned:
1. Never do projects for money for friends or relatives. If it's a
favor you're going them, and it's on your timeline, that's fine.
2. If you insist on ignoring #1, give a quote in writing, and have
them sign off on it before you even go looking for your car keys to
drive to the lumber yard.
If you ignore #1 and #2, it's your own fault if you get screwed over
on the money.
A (long) while back I was approached by a friend to do a barter deal.
She would have some custom curtains made for our dining room (paying
for all the materials and labor) in exchange for an L-shaped lidded
storage bench for her apartment (for which she would pay for the
materials; all I had to supply was design knowledge and labor).
Seemed like a pretty good deal.
She got her part of the bargain finished and came and installed the
curtains. I showed her the work in progress out in the garage
(feeling guilty for not having it finished yet). "No worries", she
tells me, "I still have to move the old armoire where this goes."
When I finally did finish the bench I called her to arrange delivery
and she told me she still didn't have room for it. She would need
another couple weeks to clear the space (divorce situation). That was
a month ago. This damn thing is now taking up valuable space in MY
dining room (needed room in the garage to get on to SWMBO's next
project).
I'm still happy to do work for friends. But I've learned that there
has to be an agreed upon timeline, on BOTH sides!
Ian
[email protected] (Larry Bud) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Joe Willmann <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > I built a little project for a friend. We have these close friends with
> > a 5 year old grandson. Jill, the grandmother, knowing that I do some
> > woodworking asked me if I would build a child sized workbench for their
> > grandson. I agreed. Now I was doing this for fun, not money. I asked
> > about budget and she told me to keep the wood cost under $50.00. So off
> > I went.
>
> I don't do wood working for money, but as a PC guru, many friends and
> relatives have asked me to do work for them. Here's what I've
> learned:
>
> 1. Never do projects for money for friends or relatives. If it's a
> favor you're going them, and it's on your timeline, that's fine.
>
> 2. If you insist on ignoring #1, give a quote in writing, and have
> them sign off on it before you even go looking for your car keys to
> drive to the lumber yard.
>
> If you ignore #1 and #2, it's your own fault if you get screwed over
> on the money.
Congrats on your "sale". Sounds like you had fun and you'll make a
child happy (assuming the hammer thing works out). Since it doesn't
sound like you intend to make your living at this, that's what matters
most. I'm just finishing up my first furniture project in many years,
a full-length mirror frame in a style reminiscent of Greene and
Greene. I enjoyed this project because it allowed me to
unapologetically indulge my perfectionist tendencies, something I'm
unable to do in many of my other endeavors. I've spent close to forty
hours on this frame detailing the through mortise and tenon joinery
and doing a bit of carving as well. I'll admit entertaining idle
daydreams of doing this sort of satisfying work for a living, but as
you mention, it's tough to make the numbers work out. If I were to
offer up mirror frames like the one I just completed, it would require
well over $1000 a copy to make the business at all viable. There's
just no way around the fact that the hand work involved in a project
like (when done right) is considerable indeed. That's what gives an
object like this it's underlying character. I have a newfound sense
of respect for the artists out there who are able to find patrons
willing to recognize this and pay accordingly. It's probably getting
tougher and tougher as the Walmart mindset permeates our culture.
Richard Johnson
Camano Island, WA
"Joe Willmann" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jill comes over to look at it because it is finished and I was going to
> ask about painting/sealing it. She loved it and just wants a poly
> coating. So she asks about the price. She thinks I have done such a
> great job I could make them and sell them and make a fortune
I can't count how many times I've heard this about different things I've
built. People don't realize that your time has a definite value. Even
though I've only spent $25 in materials for something that could sell for a
couple hundred, I still don't want to build 50 of them. My time is worth
more to me than it is to perspective customers.
My solution is like yours, whenever a friend wants me to build something for
them I only ask to be compensated for materials. Otherwise, I decline.
Frank
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> At $500 you may sell one or two to FAO
> Schwartz, but they'd probably want a 40% discount anyway.
Not any more. <sigh> They went bankrupt.
Jim Stuyck
I'm still amazed at DVD players for less than $40! No wonder no one
wants to pay for craftsmanship anymore!
dave
[email protected] wrote:
> Joe Willmann wrote:
>
>>Jill is a card. I am a unemployeed software engineer. I got laid off
>>18 months ago. She offered me the work to "help out". There have been
>>several things she has offered to "help out". Her heart is in the right
>>place and we love her for that but her mind sometimes isn't.
>>I did the work bench for the fun of it. But I did try to talk her out
>>of it. See the little boy is only 5 years old. Jill is going out today
>>to buy him a hammer, some nails, screw drivers, and a saw so he will
>>have some tools. I asked Jill if his father had OK'd this stuff and she
>>looked at me with a wrinkled brow saying the she just couldn't imaging
>>the father not loving the idea of his son having wood working tools and
>>a work bench in his bedroom.
>>Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Can you see a 5 year old running around with a hammer?
>>And what about the 3 year old little brother?
>>Should I get them to sign a release before I let them pick it up?
>
>
> Sorry about the unemployment. Until this governmet stops bringing
> people into the country to take jobs away and stop the outsourcing
> nighmare it's only going to get worse. The yardstick of "Is it good for
> America" really needs to applied, and strenuously to the back ends of
> the companies is pursuit of greed and short-term profits. Then it
> should be turned on the politicians whose only interest is paying off
> their business friends. Sorry. <rant mode off>
>
> People really have no clue of what it takes to make something since
> they've never done it or seen it done. When the only experience is
> paying for something in 1st world pennies that was made with 3rd world
> labor, the reality tends to get lost. As for the kids and tools, there
> had better be some real parental controls in place,or we're going to be
> busy at the hospital later that night. Got any pix of the bench?
> Dave in Fairfax
"Joe Willmann" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
> I tell her I have $36.00 in material and 18
> hours of labor. I then explain that this is why all of these kinds of
> things are made in China. At $.25 per hour the labor is ony $4.00 and
> people would buy it. At $25.00 and hour it comes in at about $500.00
> and no one would buy it. So she gives me a check for $125.00.
>
> Now that was fine. I did it for the fun of it not the money. So I made
> $4.95 per hour. I don't think that is even minimum wage. But I had
> fun.
I like that kind of job. If you are willing to do it for the fun of it,
then anything on top is a bonus. At $500 you may sell one or two to FAO
Schwartz, but they'd probably want a 40% discount anyway.
Your last sentence is the most important!
Ed
[email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]:
>> "Joe Willmann" <[email protected]> wrote in message >
>> > I tell her I have $36.00 in material and 18
>> > hours of labor. I then explain that this is why all of these kinds
>> > of things are made in China. At $.25 per hour the labor is ony
>> > $4.00 and people would buy it. At $25.00 and hour it comes in at
>> > about $500.00 and no one would buy it. So she gives me a check for
>> > $125.00.
>> >
>> > Now that was fine. I did it for the fun of it not the money. So I
>> > made $4.95 per hour. I don't think that is even minimum wage. But
>> > I had fun.
>
> I do mainly turning, but the idea is the same. I've got a pile of
> things to do for friends before Xmas. When they ask me what it would
> cost for me to make the whatever for them, I tell them the cost of the
> wood. If I charge them for my time, they can't afford to give them
> away. I don't work for minimum wage and since this is America, and
> time is money, they need to price a pretty piece of wood buy it. I'll
> do the rest. If they balk, I suggest that they do the math at my rate
> of pay where we work, that stops the conversation right away. I do it
> as a labor of love, and only for people I like.
> Dave in Fairfax
Jill is a card. I am a unemployeed software engineer. I got laid off
18 months ago. She offered me the work to "help out". There have been
several things she has offered to "help out". Her heart is in the right
place and we love her for that but her mind sometimes isn't.
Last year I did some major remodeling around the house. Lots of built
in book cases, tile work, lots of stuff. One of the things I did was I
put in a inground sprinkler system and new sod for the entire yard. I
did such a good job that Jill asked me to do it for here and she would
pay me. I though about it for about 5 seconds and said NO! That was a
long, hard, dirty, nasty, miserable thing to spend a week doing. She
told me she would pay me a well for it. I asked he how much she figured
it would cost and she said $1500 - $2000. I told her to go out and get
two professional estimates for the work she wanted done. Then when
would talk about it. Later she told me that the lowest estimate was for
about $8,000. I told her I would be happy to do it for $10,000.
Needless to say I didn't do the work.
I did the work bench for the fun of it. But I did try to talk her out
of it. See the little boy is only 5 years old. Jill is going out today
to buy him a hammer, some nails, screw drivers, and a saw so he will
have some tools. I asked Jill if his father had OK'd this stuff and she
looked at me with a wrinkled brow saying the she just couldn't imaging
the father not loving the idea of his son having wood working tools and
a work bench in his bedroom.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Can you see a 5 year old running around with a hammer?
And what about the 3 year old little brother?
Should I get them to sign a release before I let them pick it up?
Silvan <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Joe Willmann wrote:
>> I did the work bench for the fun of it. But I did try to talk her
>> out of it. See the little boy is only 5 years old. Jill is going
>> out today to buy him a hammer, some nails, screw drivers, and a saw
>> so he will have some tools. I asked Jill if his father had OK'd this
>> stuff and she
>
> REAL tools?
Yep. She went to The Home Depot and bought this nice 8 oz claw hammer.
>
> Five years old?
Yep, five.
This child seems pretty immature to me. Jill says she wants the work
bench in the boys bedroom. Think upsairs and carpet. I hope the boys
father will maybe put it in the garage and supervise things.
>
> It depends on the child, I'd say. My son got his first small set of
> real tools at about that age. No SAW though. I think I would draw
> the line well short of that.
I have this picture in my mind...... After a hard days work dad comes
home, grabs a shower, some dinner and desides to go to bed early. So
upstairs he goes, kisses his children and goes and flops down on the bed
exhausted. The bed colapses! Seems someone has sawwed a leg off.
>
> You should include (or encourage his mother to buy) some kiddie-sized
> safety glasses with the bench if you haven't given it to him already.
> Establish good habits early. Screwdrivers slip, hammer claws come
> back, eyes are fragile things. I wish I had become conscientious
> about wearing them at an earlier age.
Safety glasses are a good idea. I will throw in a pair.
>
>> Should I get them to sign a release before I let them pick it up?
>
> It might do you more harm than good. Talk to a lawyer, or don't have
> them sign anything at all.
>
I think I am just going to forget this release idea. Like you said it
might give someone a bad idea.
I think the kid will love it. It will be up to the parents to teach
good skills.
"Joe Willmann" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I have this picture in my mind...... After a hard days work dad comes
> home, grabs a shower, some dinner and desides to go to bed early. So
> upstairs he goes, kisses his children and goes and flops down on the bed
> exhausted. The bed colapses! Seems someone has sawwed a leg off.
>
--------------
When my son was about 10 he asked if he and his pal could play with the bench,
which was out in a shed. I didn't give it much thought as there were no
woodworking tools in there. Just the cheap pine store-bought apology of a bench
and some garden tools. So I said yes.
I couple of peaceful hours later I checked what they were doing. The little
devils had found a bow-saw and sawn the bench into manageable pieces and were
busy hauling it up into a tree.
.
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 21:08:08 -0700, "Steve"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>the chain saw even make sort of realistic sounds when
>the triggers are pushed.
Look for the "powRsound" plastic chain saw with the "working" chain
made of bathroom basin chain. Friend of mine has three of them, and
uses them for juggling.
--
Klein bottle for rent. Apply within.
Joe Willmann <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Now that was fine. I did it for the fun of it not the money. So I made
> $4.95 per hour. I don't think that is even minimum wage. But I had
> fun.
That's the right attitude. Any woodworking I do for money (so far
only one project), I do for mainly for the fun of it. Any money I
earn I look at as a bonus that I can use to get that new tool I
wanted. And I NEVER look at the $/hour factor.
-Chris
Joe Willmann wrote:
> about $8,000. I told her I would be happy to do it for $10,000.
> Needless to say I didn't do the work.
I run into that a lot too. Sure, I'd be happy to work for twelve cents an
hour just because you're my neighbor.
> I did the work bench for the fun of it. But I did try to talk her out
> of it. See the little boy is only 5 years old. Jill is going out today
> to buy him a hammer, some nails, screw drivers, and a saw so he will
> have some tools. I asked Jill if his father had OK'd this stuff and she
REAL tools?
Five years old?
It depends on the child, I'd say. My son got his first small set of real
tools at about that age. No SAW though. I think I would draw the line
well short of that.
I'll let him use screwdrivers, hammers, pliers and such on his own (wearing
safety glasses!) but he doesn't saw, even now at age nine, unless I'm right
there.
You should include (or encourage his mother to buy) some kiddie-sized safety
glasses with the bench if you haven't given it to him already. Establish
good habits early. Screwdrivers slip, hammer claws come back, eyes are
fragile things. I wish I had become conscientious about wearing them at an
earlier age.
> Should I get them to sign a release before I let them pick it up?
It might do you more harm than good. Talk to a lawyer, or don't have them
sign anything at all.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
"Larry Bud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I don't do wood working for money, but as a PC guru, many friends and
> relatives have asked me to do work for them. Here's what I've
> learned:
>
> 1. Never do projects for money for friends or relatives. If it's a
> favor you're going them, and it's on your timeline, that's fine.
Same here. I give(or offer) my stuff to people I know will appreciate it
and not to people who ask. Some relatives and acquaintances say something
like,"Oh I would love to have something like that for my deck(living room,
home etc etc)." and I reply,"Oh, I don't do commission work.".....that
shuts them up and gets the message across.
Larry
Joe Willmann wrote:
>> REAL tools?
>
> Yep. She went to The Home Depot and bought this nice 8 oz claw hammer.
Well, those aren't *too* dangerous. That was my son's first tool. Maybe
even age four.
> This child seems pretty immature to me. Jill says she wants the work
> bench in the boys bedroom. Think upsairs and carpet. I hope the boys
> father will maybe put it in the garage and supervise things.
Or the boy's mother. The fact that she's a wimminz doesn't absolve her of
any responsibility for this.
Of course, it depends on Dad too. I know *many* men who aren't what I'd
call tool users.
> upstairs he goes, kisses his children and goes and flops down on the bed
> exhausted. The bed colapses! Seems someone has sawwed a leg off.
I have a worse picture in my head. Stitches.
> I think the kid will love it. It will be up to the parents to teach
> good skills.
Yes, and it *is* ultimately their responsibility.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 23:26:22 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:
>REAL tools?
>
>Five years old?
I got my first toolbox for my fourth birthday. Still using most of
them. Depends a little on the child, and _much_ more on how much time
they get to spend around tools beforehand.
pretending to be king!
Mark & Juanita wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>
>>On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 05:42:40 GMT, Mark & Juanita
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Ya only get probation if you draw a picture of a Swiss Army knife.
>>>Strange times indeed. One school prevented a student from doing a
>>>report on the US Marine Corps because it would promote violence.
>>
>>Xmas present:
>>http://codesmiths.com/shed/things/knives/woodenswords.htm
>>
>
>
> very cool! What is neater than pretending to be one of the Knights of
> the Round Table?
--
---
BRuce
T. wrote:
> All the young kids I knew of had pocket knives, and none of us cut
> ourselves, after that first time. Well, let me revise that a bit - MOST
Yeah, closing that blade the first time. THWACK. Ouch. Duh.
These days you can get five years in prison for carrying a pair of nail
clippers to school though. If they catch you with a Swiss Army knife, it's
straight to the electric chair.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Robert Smith wrote:
> I graduated in '76. My friends and I all drove old rag topped jeeps to
> school. After school we'd all be out ground hog hunting. We couldn't leave
> the guns in the jeeps, so we used to keep them in our lockers at school. How
> much time do you think I would get these days if I took an 30-06 through the
> front door of the school with two loaded clips. Back then nobody even gave
> it a second thought.
We did the same thing in MI 'cept when we took the new ones out and did
show-and-tell. You wouldn't do any time though, SWAT would take you out
long before that was an issue.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Robert Smith wrote:
>
> > I graduated in '76. My friends and I all drove old rag topped jeeps to
> > school. After school we'd all be out ground hog hunting. We couldn't
> > leave the guns in the jeeps, so we used to keep them in our lockers
> > at school. How much time do you think I would get these days if I
> > took an 30-06 through the front door of the school with two loaded
> > clips. Back then nobody even gave it a second thought.
>
> 30-06 for ground hogs? What did y'all use for deer, .458 Winchester or .460
> Weatherby? <G>
>
> I'm class of '77.
Me too.
> It was a different epoch.
>
> -- Mark
yep, we didn't take guns to school but, with the tacit approval of the
chemistry teacher, cooked up black powder and tested various
formulations for the purpose of building rocket motors. The rocket
motor casings were aluminum pipe -- can you imagine what would happen
these days? "Students arrested for building pipe bombs in classroom,
teacher suspended"
FWIW, we got a couple of good launches, the weak links were finding
reliable ignitor approaches and a reliable means of keeping the nosecone
attached. It was a very practical introduction to solving engineering
problems and got us involved in researching literature; it was my first
exposure to the rocket equation.
We also exercised good practices regarding range safety -- since our
high school was essentially in the middle of a wheat field, we would
drive out on a country road, find a location with a nice, drainage ditch
and set up such that we were well removed and under cover during
launches.
>
>
>
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 05:42:40 GMT, Mark & Juanita
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Ya only get probation if you draw a picture of a Swiss Army knife.
> >Strange times indeed. One school prevented a student from doing a
> >report on the US Marine Corps because it would promote violence.
>
> Xmas present:
> http://codesmiths.com/shed/things/knives/woodenswords.htm
>
very cool! What is neater than pretending to be one of the Knights of
the Round Table?
Fri, Dec 19, 2003, 1:17pm (EST+5) [email protected]
(Andy=A0Dingley)
says:
I got my first toolbox for my fourth birthday. Still using most of them.
Depends a little on the child, and _much_ more on how much time they get
to spend around tools beforehand.
As I recall it, when I was a kid, you gave a young kid a sharp
knife for a present. You also told the kid how to be carefule, and it
was sharp, and he could cut himself, if he wasn't careful. There wan't
any of this crap of, he'll cut himself. Of course, he cut himself.
That way he did learn it's sharp, it hurt, and he didn't do it again.
All the young kids I knew of had pocket knives, and none of us cut
ourselves, after that first time. Well, let me revise that a bit - MOST
of us only cut ourselves once. There's always a few who just don't
learn.
JOAT
Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we are here we might
as well dance.
- Unknown
Life just ain't life without good music. - JOAT
Web Page Update 19 Dec 2003.
Some tunes I like.
http://community-2.webtv.net/Jakofalltrades/SOMETUNESILIKE/
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> T. wrote:
>
> > All the young kids I knew of had pocket knives, and none of us cut
> > ourselves, after that first time. Well, let me revise that a bit - MOST
>
> Yeah, closing that blade the first time. THWACK. Ouch. Duh.
>
> These days you can get five years in prison for carrying a pair of nail
> clippers to school though. If they catch you with a Swiss Army knife, it's
> straight to the electric chair.
>
>
Ya only get probation if you draw a picture of a Swiss Army knife.
Strange times indeed. One school prevented a student from doing a
report on the US Marine Corps because it would promote violence.
Late 50's and early 60's ... During dove season, and when there was no
practice, I occasionally rode my buckskin mare, Nancy Hanks, to school
carrying my 20ga Remington Model 11 shotgun with a couple boxes of shells in
a shell vest. I tied the horse to the back fence with a halter and, because
the lockers weren't big enough, brought the gun and game bag to woodshop for
storage (OBWW).
Damn, how times have changed ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/23/03
"Robert Smith" wrote in message
> I graduated in '76. My friends and I all drove old rag topped jeeps to
> school. After school we'd all be out ground hog hunting. We couldn't leave
> the guns in the jeeps, so we used to keep them in our lockers at school.
How
> much time do you think I would get these days if I took an 30-06 through
the
> front door of the school with two loaded clips. Back then nobody even gave
> it a second thought.
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 05:42:40 GMT, Mark & Juanita
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Ya only get probation if you draw a picture of a Swiss Army knife.
>Strange times indeed. One school prevented a student from doing a
>report on the US Marine Corps because it would promote violence.
Xmas present:
http://codesmiths.com/shed/things/knives/woodenswords.htm
--
Smert' spamionam
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:42:08 +0000, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 05:42:40 GMT, Mark & Juanita
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ya only get probation if you draw a picture of a Swiss Army knife.
>>Strange times indeed. One school prevented a student from doing a
>>report on the US Marine Corps because it would promote violence.
>
>Xmas present:
>http://codesmiths.com/shed/things/knives/woodenswords.htm
Hey, I like that chair, Andy.
==========================================================
Save the + http://www.diversify.com
Endangered SKEETS! + Web Application Programming
==========================================================
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:35:58 GMT, Larry Jaques <jake@di\/ersify.com>
wrote:
>Hey, I like that chair, Andy.
Idea came from a link of JOAT's
http://codesmiths.com/shed/furniture/gothic_chair.htm
It's stacked plywood, sawn with staggered edges and slammed through a
chamfer bit on the router.
http://codesmiths.com/shed/workshop/techniques/gothic.htm
--
Smert' spamionam
On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 19:24:20 +0000, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>On Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:35:58 GMT, Larry Jaques <jake@di\/ersify.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Hey, I like that chair, Andy.
>
>Idea came from a link of JOAT's
>http://codesmiths.com/shed/furniture/gothic_chair.htm
>
>It's stacked plywood, sawn with staggered edges and slammed through a
Damn, there went its mystique.
>chamfer bit on the router.
>http://codesmiths.com/shed/workshop/techniques/gothic.htm
Great. Thanks.
==========================================================
Save the + http://www.diversify.com
Endangered SKEETS! + Web Application Programming
==========================================================
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:50:41 -0500 (EST), [email protected]
(T.) wrote:
> As I recall it, when I was a kid, you gave a young kid a sharp
>knife for a present.
Only the older kids. You got the youngsters started with a soldering
iron first.
"Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Robert Smith wrote:
>
> > I graduated in '76. My friends and I all drove old rag topped jeeps to
> > school. After school we'd all be out ground hog hunting. We couldn't
> > leave the guns in the jeeps, so we used to keep them in our lockers
> > at school. How much time do you think I would get these days if I
> > took an 30-06 through the front door of the school with two loaded
> > clips. Back then nobody even gave it a second thought.
>
> 30-06 for ground hogs? What did y'all use for deer, .458 Winchester or
.460
> Weatherby? <G>
>
> I'm class of '77. It was a different epoch.
>
> -- Mark
>
>
Yes 30-06, I took a raft of shit from everyone back then too. They all had
different guns for everything. 22-250 seemed to be the weapon of choice. But
when they would shoot them, you could hardly tell they were hit. When I shot
one you normally had a few loose pieces.
Back then I couldn't afford more guns, I spent most of my income on
chasing women. Strange, I figured once I caught one, I could start spending
all the money on me. And to think, back then I knew everything.
Robert Smith wrote:
> I graduated in '76. My friends and I all drove old rag topped jeeps to
> school. After school we'd all be out ground hog hunting. We couldn't
> leave the guns in the jeeps, so we used to keep them in our lockers
> at school. How much time do you think I would get these days if I
> took an 30-06 through the front door of the school with two loaded
> clips. Back then nobody even gave it a second thought.
30-06 for ground hogs? What did y'all use for deer, .458 Winchester or .460
Weatherby? <G>
I'm class of '77. It was a different epoch.
-- Mark
Swingman wrote:
> because the lockers weren't big enough, brought the gun and game bag to
> woodshop for storage (OBWW).
>
> Damn, how times have changed ...
And how!
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
> > T. wrote:
> >
> > > All the young kids I knew of had pocket knives, and none of us cut
> > > ourselves, after that first time. Well, let me revise that a bit -
MOST
> >
> > Yeah, closing that blade the first time. THWACK. Ouch. Duh.
> >
> > These days you can get five years in prison for carrying a pair of nail
> > clippers to school though. If they catch you with a Swiss Army knife,
it's
> > straight to the electric chair.
> >
> >
>
> Ya only get probation if you draw a picture of a Swiss Army knife.
> Strange times indeed. One school prevented a student from doing a
> report on the US Marine Corps because it would promote violence.
I graduated in '76. My friends and I all drove old rag topped jeeps to
school. After school we'd all be out ground hog hunting. We couldn't leave
the guns in the jeeps, so we used to keep them in our lockers at school. How
much time do you think I would get these days if I took an 30-06 through the
front door of the school with two loaded clips. Back then nobody even gave
it a second thought.
Those kids are at the perfect age for the perfect toy tools ---
Right now, Sears has some of the (ok, I'll use the word!) cutest darned toy
tools on sale (see the "My First Craftsman" tools sets). The skil saw, the
drill/driver set and the chain saw even make sort of realistic sounds when
the triggers are pushed. They're probably greater gift ideas for us
grown-ups though :-)
--
Steve
www.ApacheTrail.com/ww/
Mesa, AZ
Penury Is the Mother of Invention
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
: Joe Willmann wrote:
:
: > about $8,000. I told her I would be happy to do it for $10,000.
: > Needless to say I didn't do the work.
:
: I run into that a lot too. Sure, I'd be happy to work for twelve cents an
: hour just because you're my neighbor.
:
: > I did the work bench for the fun of it. But I did try to talk her out
: > of it. See the little boy is only 5 years old. Jill is going out today
: > to buy him a hammer, some nails, screw drivers, and a saw so he will
: > have some tools. I asked Jill if his father had OK'd this stuff and she
:
: REAL tools?
:
: Five years old?
:
: It depends on the child, I'd say. My son got his first small set of real
: tools at about that age. No SAW though. I think I would draw the line
: well short of that.
:
: I'll let him use screwdrivers, hammers, pliers and such on his own
(wearing
: safety glasses!) but he doesn't saw, even now at age nine, unless I'm
right
: there.
:
: You should include (or encourage his mother to buy) some kiddie-sized
safety
: glasses with the bench if you haven't given it to him already. Establish
: good habits early. Screwdrivers slip, hammer claws come back, eyes are
: fragile things. I wish I had become conscientious about wearing them at
an
: earlier age.
:
: > Should I get them to sign a release before I let them pick it up?
:
: It might do you more harm than good. Talk to a lawyer, or don't have them
: sign anything at all.
:
: --
: Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
: Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
: