Woodcraft

On 11/26/2014 1:57 AM, [email protected] wrote:

> As noted, I think a lot has to do with the actual franchise owner and how he wants to run his/her store.

Not to hijack the thread, but I plumb wore out (measure once, cut once,
pound to fit) my old deadblow hammer, been taping it up for the last
couple of years and finally remembered to look for a new one while at
Rockler picking up some hinges this week .

Upon checking out, the clerk, who has been around for a few years and
routinely advises customers on matters woodworking/tools as resident
expert, mentioned to me that he just used one "for the first time last
week" and was "totally surprised there was no bounce back."

The blind lead the blind at many of these places...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 11/21/2014 6:15 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 11/21/14, 4:17 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>> dpb <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 11/21/2014 11:44 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> Woodcraft shows basic shipping as free saving substantially on the net
>>>> cost. Other than the 7-10 day lead time per Woodcraft are there any
>>>> issues with Woodcraft?
>>>>
>>>> FYI: This is for a metalworking project, but since the basic frame work
>>>> pieces are associated with woodworking tools...
>>>
>>> They're a reliable, trustworthy vendor if that's the question. I find
>>> them generally expensive so rarely purchase anything from them but no
>>> reason to avoid them as far as fraud, non-delivery or the like that I've
>>> ever heard/experienced.
>>
>> Second that: reliable and trustworthy, but often not a bargain.
>>
>
> True dat! Their black Friday event is a joke. :-)
>
>

I agree about their black friday event.

I purchased from them for years never had a problem. They were less on
many back then, then Rockler, but now I find them way higher.

I will be going there today to pick up the Rikon Slow speed grinder as I
need one for my lathes.

Years ago I got a great deal on Jorgensen Cabinet Master clamps from
them. I think they were $14 a piece practically. I bought the max
allowable. Wish I had ordered more and sent them to a friend.

--
Jeff

On 11/23/2014 10:25 AM, Brewster wrote:

>>
>> But aside from that Woodcraft has a "Columbian" brand bar clamp that is
>> identical to the clamps found in HF, with the China stamp in the same
>> place.
>
> I can confirm this with Rockler. They had a hand hole reamer tool,
> orange plastic handle with three black, hex shafted bits on closeout.
> Unmistakeably the same tool sold by HF. Only difference was there
> closeout price was 5x higher than the HF price. I left some clues in the
> reviews but they blocked it....

This happens more than you'd think in every aspect of what we buy. I
bought a pair of Dockers chinos at Casual Male for $45 and a pair of
WalMart whatever brand for $18. Stitch for stitch, they are the same
material from the same factory.

Tools, food, appliances, all have the same things at times. A guy I
know was restoring a 70's vintage Jaguar. He bought some of the parts
at a GM dealer.

Have you visited the Alibaba web site? What do you want to buy? You
can stock a store with whatever you need. Line of screws and fasteners?
Air filters for every model car on the road? Plumbing fittings?

On Saturday, November 22, 2014 10:46:02 AM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
=20
> They embody the old retail store value. Remember them from decades ago?

Boy, do I! And how I miss those stores. 40 years ago San Antonio was stil=
l a good sized town, but still a sleepy little blue collar/ranching town in=
a lot of ways. We had those little "Mom and Pop" stores everywhere. And =
until about 20 years ago, they were still in the out lying areas around us.

I could go into the store I liked and there were about 3 or 4 guys I saw re=
gularly, each with a specific set of skills. One guy knew the most about p=
ower tools, one guy about all manner of hardware, and one knew most about g=
eneral repair items and "new stuff". They wouldn't talk to you on the phon=
e except to tell you if that had something in stock. If you had a question=
you had to drive over and see them. Sitting here on a cold, rainy Saturda=
y morning now, I am reminded of their old Waring 30 cup coffee maker that s=
at out on the end of the counter that had a old coffee can with a slit cut =
in it marked "coffee fund". I loved those stores... they smelled like rubb=
er tool cords and 3in1 oil.

The advent of Builder's Square, Home Depot and all the other big boxes gave=
so much more selection and better pricing on the same exact stuff (remembe=
r, they weren't always just Chinese importers with store front outlets) tha=
t the old hardware stores couldn't hang on.

>=20
> Our local Woodcraft is higher priced than many other store, but they=20
> offer one thing the discounters do not - - - service. For the first time=
=20
> buyer of a tool, you can get plenty of free advice on how to properly=20
> use it. Advice on how a finish will work. etc. You don't get that at=20
> Amazon or the big box stores.
>=20
> Many do not need that service and are unwilling to pay for it. That is=
=20
> why WalMart thrives and most old time department stores closed up 30=20
> years ago.

Sadly, our local Woodcraft is chock full of self important gas bags that gi=
ve more wrong information than right. Some are down right f'in idiots, yet=
that doesn't give them a second's hesitation of spewing out bullshit. If =
they don't know something, they will simply make it up. And these guys are=
shameless, if they watch the store video that demos a product, the will ho=
ist up their pants and talk about it like the have been using that product =
for years.

There are a couple of guys that have some particular skills, but they know =
ONLY of their chosen hobby. None have ever been in business doing the thin=
gs they talk about. None have ever supported themselves as craftsmen doing=
the things they speak of with such great authority. None have ever made a=
living as tradesmen. They are book and video educated, word of mouth (inc=
luding accepting the opinions of their fellow gas bags)educated guys that h=
ave little or no practical experience.

Top that off with the fact that I have seen the EXACT hand tools in Harbor =
Freight that I saw last time I was there along with the fact they are gener=
ally overpriced on everything to begin with, and there is no reason for me =
to go in a Woodcraft store. In the last 20 plus years, I have been in the =
Woodcraft 3 or 4 times to pick up an item (like a 3/8" pattern cutting rout=
er bit) that I couldn't wait for. From my friends that still go over there=
to meander around on a slow weekend, they tell me nothing has changed.

That being said, I have talked other guys that have exactly the opposite ex=
perience at their local Woodcraft. I think the flavor of the store has a lo=
t to do with the fact the are franchises, and the owner has to set the tone=
for the attitude of the personnel and the skill level at which they hire.

Robert

On 11/23/2014 11:51 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 11/23/14, 9:25 AM, Brewster wrote:
>>
>> I have bought some things from these retailers that were obvious HF
>> fodder at a time when their price was good. Years later I'd buy the
>> same thing from HF on a whim and noticed that the HF contraption was
>> of poorer finish quality. Examples like a carpenters triangle come to
>> mind. It may be that some things get inspections and those that
>> qualify as 'perfect' go to the retailers and the cosmetic rejects go
>> to HF.
>>
>>
>> -Bruce
>>
>
> And don't be too sure about the quality control either.
> When I was looking for a new slide rule I checked Woodcraft because I
> was having difficulty finding one that was good quality and actually
> *square.*
>
> Probably 1/3 of the Woodcraft squares weren't.
> (Yes, I checked and double-checked the engineering squares I used as a
> reference.)
>
>

By slide rule I think you mean combo square.
I have a Starret, dead on.

But I also have an old Stanley and a little empire. The empire and
Stanley I adjusted by taking a small file and working them to square.
just take a board that has been jointed. mark a line knife is better.
using the same edge flip the square over and mark another line right
next to that line. you eye should be able to pick up if they diverge.
The should be parallel if not figure out where you need to remove
material and take a file and remove less than half of what you think you
need to. And check again.


--
Jeff

"Bob La Londe" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> Thanks. In this case since they calculate free shipping its
> substantially cheaper for what I believe is an identical item. (same
> manufacturer / same specs) For 4 table leaves Rockler was $22
> cheaper, but with the freight were about $100 more and I am not in a
> huge hurry. I probably won't have any time to work on the project for
> several weeks anyway.
>

The only one way to know for sure is to try it. They should show any
additional fees on the checkout page.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

RE: Subject

If he is still around, ask Charlie Self about his time with Woodcraft.

Lew

"Bob La Londe" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
>
> Well, they have now charged my credit card. For the full amount for
> four (4) leaves, and $125 for shipping. I've only received one (1)
> leaf and it was shipped AFTER I notified them to cancel the order. To
> the guy who said I'ld have to try them to know for sure.... what did
> I ever do to you? You could have just told me they were an unethical
> organization and their on-line sucks.
>

I'm the guy who said "The only one way to know for sure is to try it.
They should show any additional fees on the checkout page."

I was ONLY talking about the shipping fees. If they didn't add notice of
added shipping fees before you checked out, then by all means call your
CC company and dispute the charge. Might be worth filing a dispute with
the BBB as well.

As a result of your posts, I will not use Woodcraft if I need a large
piece of equipment shipped.

Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.

On Monday, November 24, 2014 12:29:30 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

> That's manufacturer's defect and it shouldn't be on the shelves at a
> store like Woodcraft.
>=20
> What it comes down to is Woodcraft trying to make a premium profit from
> selling HF quality tools. I get it, they have to have high margin stuff
> so their franchisees can make money. But I'm not giving them my money
> for that crap.
>=20

You bet! I'm right there with you. I don't mind paying more for a good pr=
oduct, but absolutely won't pay a nickel more than I should for a mediocre =
one.

I <<always>> vote with my wallet, adding another reason they don't see me i=
n Woodcraft. When a couple of small hand tools I purchased at WC failed (cl=
amps) after 2 weeks, WC wouldn't take them back or exchange them since they=
claimed they were "promo" items, although they didn't disclose that at the=
time of purchase. Imagine my surprise to find them at HF for half the pric=
e to start with, then was able to use their always available 20% off coupon=
, and at that time they had a 90 day return policy on non powered tools.

I also had problems with a second Jet mini lathe I bought, one with and ove=
rheating motor. WC wouldn't take it back, and told me that I needed to ship=
it to JET since it was not within 14 days of purchase. They wouldn't back=
off, either. A brand new power tool...

So I called Jet, and the regional rep for our area happened to be in the of=
fice. I told him the story, and he was really pissed about the whole thing=
. He sent me a brand new motor, and gave me new bearings just in case they=
were part of the problem. About two weeks later he was down here on busin=
ess, I introduced myself, and he made WC set aside a new lathe for me. The=
rep told me to keep the motor and bearings, just bring in the whole lathe.

The asshats at WC were really pissed off as they felt like I had "gone over=
their heads" and "made them look bad". And they were really mad that the =
rep told me to keep the motor. I never figured out why they were pissed of=
f... the problem was resolved and they didn't have to lift one lazy finger =
nor did the store get a ding for returned merchandise. I thought that woul=
d have been perfect for them.

But you know, they felt like I robbed the bank by getting a "free motor". =
I was there for a about two years after that as that was where we had our w=
oodturning club meetings, and for months they couldn't wait to ask me what =
I did with my "free motor". =20

In a later conversation with the Jet rep, he told me that the store manager=
could (at that time) take back any Jet product that had an obvious manufac=
turing defect for up to a year from the date of purchase for a no hassle ex=
change. The store was to call Jet and explain the problem, then Jet would =
issue an RMA, and that was that.

That just made me dislike them more.

Robert

On Saturday, November 22, 2014 7:21:16 PM UTC-6, Larry Blanchard wrote:
=20
> But the tools all come out of the same warehouse.
>=20
> I'd be interested in knowing which tools you saw in both HF and=20
> Woodcraft. The same brand?

The local store here had sets of different marking and layout tools as well=
as inexpensive clamps. I purchased these at HF, and soon after saw them i=
n Woodcraft when I was teaching wood turning. I used these when turning pe=
ns, and at HF they were half the price of Woodcraft. The only difference w=
as the color of the plastic box the came in:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/143963/WoodRiver-Fractional-Dial-Caliper.a=
spx

I also bought the digital model and it too was half the price of WC, with n=
o discernible difference.

I also bought these at HF for $8 and encouraged my students to buy them to =
check wall thickness, various marking needs, etc.:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/154573/GRIP-3-piece-8-Caliper-and-Divider-=
Set.aspx

Bought this to keep my miter saw square when cutting complicated crown mold=
ings that require me to be as accurate as possible (think flat cut composit=
e angles on wide moldings, not upside down and backwards). This was less t=
han half price at HF:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/03B73/Shinwa-Japanese-Miter-Square.aspx

Took it to WC when they got them in as I thought I recognized it, and they =
were identical down to the markings stamped into the actual metal. Ditto t=
his one, except one size smaller:

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/03B74/Pinnacle%2012in%20Combination%20Squa=
re%204pc.aspx

At one time they had this set that was Chinese made (this link is for examp=
le only, this particular set is made in USA) that was $49. I bought mine a=
t HF after spending some time in there to find a set that was square for $1=
9:

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/149895/Pinnacle-12in-Combination-Square-4p=
c.aspx

You get the idea. Inexpensive clamps, utility brushes, empty dispensing bo=
ttles, cheap rulers, and on an on... the list at one time was quite large.

Robert

=20

On 11/22/2014 7:21 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 11:13:42 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Top that off with the fact that I have seen the EXACT hand tools in
>> Harbor Freight that I saw last time I was there along with the fact they
>> are generally overpriced on everything to begin with, and there is no
>> reason for me to go in a Woodcraft store.
>>
>> That being said, I have talked other guys that have exactly the opposite
>> experience at their local Woodcraft. I think the flavor of the store has
>> a lot to do with the fact the are franchises,
>
> But the tools all come out of the same warehouse.
>
> I'd be interested in knowing which tools you saw in both HF and
> Woodcraft. The same brand?
>


With the Texas franchise, I interviewed for a part time job but was
offered to manage the store with the opening of one of the stores about
5~6 years ago, the store manager is free to buy outside as he saw fit.

But aside from that Woodcraft has a "Columbian" brand bar clamp that is
identical to the clamps found in HF, with the China stamp in the same place.

On 11/23/2014 1:08 PM, Keith Nuttle wrote:


>
> Since I am not a big user and one day the screw may be to hang a small
> picture and the next to put a table together, I go with the the more
> expensive, so what ever I need it for it will be up to the job

Yeah, sure. OK. Price and quality do not always go together. I've spent
the last 50+ years in many manufacturing plants. I've seen the same
exact Widget go down the assembly line and end up going into 8 different
branded cartons and sold at 8 different prices.

If you said you went with the highest quality, you'd have a good point.
You said you went with the most expensive meaning you may be wasting a
lot of money.

I hope you meant to say the best quality.

On 11/24/2014 11:58 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 22:31:21 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> A brand new square should be square.
>> I know how to check and adjust squares.
>> I do it when I drop one... not when I buy one. :-)
>
> There's a tolerance on all squares. Greatest for a rafter square,
> middling for a combination square, and minimal for an engineering square.
>
> And an engineers square is square on both outside and inside.
>
And a good engineer helps those with the sloppy framing square to square
their square by punching the inside of the angle or the outside.
That makes the large framer calibrate outward and inward.

Martin

dpb <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

> On 11/21/2014 11:44 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> ...
>
>> Woodcraft shows basic shipping as free saving substantially on the net
>> cost. Other than the 7-10 day lead time per Woodcraft are there any
>> issues with Woodcraft?
>>
>> FYI: This is for a metalworking project, but since the basic frame work
>> pieces are associated with woodworking tools...
>
> They're a reliable, trustworthy vendor if that's the question. I find
> them generally expensive so rarely purchase anything from them but no
> reason to avoid them as far as fraud, non-delivery or the like that I've
> ever heard/experienced.

Second that: reliable and trustworthy, but often not a bargain.

"Bob La Londe" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Well, they have now charged my credit card. For the full amount for
> four (4) leaves, and $125 for shipping. I've only received one (1)
> leaf and it was shipped AFTER I notified them to cancel the order.

Ship it back. Tell your credit card company the order for
qty 4 was cancelled, the shipment of qty 1 was obviously an
error on Woodcraft's part, you expect Woodcraft to reverse
the charges and you refuse to pay. Your credit card company
should back you up on that.

Woodcraft should also reimburse you for the cost of shipping
it back, but you might have to eat that.

John

On 11/22/2014 10:32 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 11/22/14, 9:51 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>> On 11/21/2014 6:15 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 11/21/14, 4:17 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>>> dpb <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/21/2014 11:44 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Woodcraft shows basic shipping as free saving substantially on the
>>>>>> net
>>>>>> cost. Other than the 7-10 day lead time per Woodcraft are there any
>>>>>> issues with Woodcraft?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> FYI: This is for a metalworking project, but since the basic frame
>>>>>> work
>>>>>> pieces are associated with woodworking tools...
>>>>>
>>>>> They're a reliable, trustworthy vendor if that's the question. I find
>>>>> them generally expensive so rarely purchase anything from them but no
>>>>> reason to avoid them as far as fraud, non-delivery or the like that
>>>>> I've
>>>>> ever heard/experienced.
>>>>
>>>> Second that: reliable and trustworthy, but often not a bargain.
>>>>
>>>
>>> True dat! Their black Friday event is a joke. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I agree about their black friday event.
>>
>> I purchased from them for years never had a problem. They were less on
>> many back then, then Rockler, but now I find them way higher.
>>
>> I will be going there today to pick up the Rikon Slow speed grinder as I
>> need one for my lathes.
>>
>> Years ago I got a great deal on Jorgensen Cabinet Master clamps from
>> them. I think they were $14 a piece practically. I bought the max
>> allowable. Wish I had ordered more and sent them to a friend.
>>
>
> The one great deal they have this year is a bunch of Jet parallel clamps
> for 50% off.
>
>
>
That is a great deal, fantastic deal actually. But I have a pair and
have been less than impressed. Between those and the Cabinet Masters
and the Besseys I reach for those last.

My biggest complaint is that they dent the wood, the Cabinet Masters and
Besseys do not. So each time I do use them on something that matters I
have to place a buffer between the work and the clamp surface. If only
they would make the faces softer....

On 11/26/2014 10:16 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 11/26/14, 9:12 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>> On 11/25/2014 9:09 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 11/24/14, 9:18 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>>>> On 11/24/2014 11:58 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 22:31:21 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> A brand new square should be square. I know how to check and
>>>>>> adjust squares. I do it when I drop one... not when I buy
>>>>>> one. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> There's a tolerance on all squares. Greatest for a rafter
>>>>> square, middling for a combination square, and minimal for an
>>>>> engineering square.
>>>>>
>>>>> And an engineers square is square on both outside and inside.
>>>>>
>>>> And a good engineer helps those with the sloppy framing square to
>>>> square their square by punching the inside of the angle or the
>>>> outside. That makes the large framer calibrate outward and
>>>> inward.
>>>>
>>>> Martin
>>>
>>> When you take them off the shelf at Woodcraft and start doing that,
>>> they ask you to leave the store.
>>>
>>>
>> It should be done already. The task is done in the field or
>> elsewhere. Someone always drops their square on one leg and it
>> changes the angle slightly.
>>
>> A lot of people just ignore and hope it is close enough until they
>> buy another.
>>
>> Martin
>
> I know that and I know how to do it.
> My whole point in all this is that a woodworking store should be selling
> square squares and not ones that need adjusted.
>
>

And what about the customer that pulls one out and drops it?



--
Jeff

On Tuesday, November 25, 2014 3:17:48 PM UTC-6, Greg Guarino wrote:

> It's a "woodworkers club" - with a shared, rentable shop that's located=
=20
> above the retail store. The store staff seem to be involved with the=20
> club and the classes they give there.

The staff at our local store give all the classes, and they do it for extra=
money. NOTHING wrong with that, but some of the folks teaching don't have=
the experience as teachers or as craftsmen to teach. A couple of the clas=
ses for wood carving were pretty good as a friend of mine taught them, but =
he is an extraordinarily talent carver with 40 years as a professional carv=
er behind him.

The guy that was teaching their lathe tool sharpening class learned from me=
... a few months before he became their expert. He couldn't sharpen a bowl=
gouge without a jig.=20

> I can't speak to their return policy, or the accuracy of their squares,=
=20
> but the guys that work there seem to be enthusiasts who don't mind if=20
> you pick their brains at length, whatever your skill level. One of them=
=20
> opened a can of stain and tried it out on a scrap for me. So I'd rate=20
> the service pretty good, at least at that one location.

As noted, I think a lot has to do with the actual franchise owner and how h=
e wants to run his/her store. About 25 years ago, the local Woodcraft was =
a pretty good wood worker's warehouse. Nice tools, a few knowledgeable fol=
ks there, lots of high end stuff and plenty of coffee. They franchise was =
sold to an investor that was looking for a new business, and the whole plac=
e changed rapidly to the store it is today, which is a place no one I know =
goes to.

If it hadn't changed, I would be glad to stop by now and then to look at th=
e new tools, talk to a few of the guys, and look at the new merchandise. I=
used to like that place a lot and really enjoyed looking at the stuff they=
would get in to sell.

Robert

On 11/26/2014 6:07 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 11/26/2014 1:57 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> As noted, I think a lot has to do with the actual franchise owner and
>> how he wants to run his/her store.
>
> Not to hijack the thread, but I plumb wore out (measure once, cut once,
> pound to fit) my old deadblow hammer, been taping it up for the last
> couple of years and finally remembered to look for a new one while at
> Rockler picking up some hinges this week .
>
> Upon checking out, the clerk, who has been around for a few years and
> routinely advises customers on matters woodworking/tools as resident
> expert, mentioned to me that he just used one "for the first time last
> week" and was "totally surprised there was no bounce back."
>
> The blind lead the blind at many of these places...
>

Jeeeez I found a dead blow hammer that a mechanic left under my hood in
1978... I had been aware of them prior.

Now I am wondering what the heck he need with a dead blow hammer under
my hood.......... He did replace a heater core however...

On 11/21/2014 11:44 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
...

> Woodcraft shows basic shipping as free saving substantially on the net
> cost. Other than the 7-10 day lead time per Woodcraft are there any
> issues with Woodcraft?
>
> FYI: This is for a metalworking project, but since the basic frame work
> pieces are associated with woodworking tools...

They're a reliable, trustworthy vendor if that's the question. I find
them generally expensive so rarely purchase anything from them but no
reason to avoid them as far as fraud, non-delivery or the like that I've
ever heard/experienced.

--

"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> On 11/21/2014 11:44 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> ...
>
>> Woodcraft shows basic shipping as free saving substantially on the net
>> cost. Other than the 7-10 day lead time per Woodcraft are there any
>> issues with Woodcraft?
>>
>> FYI: This is for a metalworking project, but since the basic frame work
>> pieces are associated with woodworking tools...
>
> They're a reliable, trustworthy vendor if that's the question. I find
> them generally expensive so rarely purchase anything from them but no
> reason to avoid them as far as fraud, non-delivery or the like that I've
> ever heard/experienced.
>
> --
>

Thanks. In this case since they calculate free shipping its substantially
cheaper for what I believe is an identical item. (same manufacturer / same
specs) For 4 table leaves Rockler was $22 cheaper, but with the freight
were about $100 more and I am not in a huge hurry. I probably won't have
any time to work on the project for several weeks anyway.

On 11/21/14, 4:17 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
> dpb <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 11/21/2014 11:44 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Woodcraft shows basic shipping as free saving substantially on the net
>>> cost. Other than the 7-10 day lead time per Woodcraft are there any
>>> issues with Woodcraft?
>>>
>>> FYI: This is for a metalworking project, but since the basic frame work
>>> pieces are associated with woodworking tools...
>>
>> They're a reliable, trustworthy vendor if that's the question. I find
>> them generally expensive so rarely purchase anything from them but no
>> reason to avoid them as far as fraud, non-delivery or the like that I've
>> ever heard/experienced.
>
> Second that: reliable and trustworthy, but often not a bargain.
>

True dat! Their black Friday event is a joke. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Fri, 21 Nov 2014 10:44:44 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote:

> I need a few cast iron saw extensions for a project. The SawStop ones
> claim to be ground to within .0001. (I will be surprised if they really
> are, but very pleased.)

If you're talking about "SawStop Contractor Table Saw Cast Iron Extension
Wing" Rockler and Woodcraft are the same price as I would expect for
SawStop stuff. Both have an $11 discount on a pair, although I can't see
how to ring that up on Woodcraft.

If Woodcraft is really free shipping, I'd call and see how to get the
discount. If not, they're both reputable companies.

On 11/21/14, 3:17 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
> dpb <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 11/21/2014 11:44 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> Woodcraft shows basic shipping as free saving substantially on the net
>>> cost. Other than the 7-10 day lead time per Woodcraft are there any
>>> issues with Woodcraft?
>>>
>>> FYI: This is for a metalworking project, but since the basic frame work
>>> pieces are associated with woodworking tools...
>>
>> They're a reliable, trustworthy vendor if that's the question. I find
>> them generally expensive so rarely purchase anything from them but no
>> reason to avoid them as far as fraud, non-delivery or the like that I've
>> ever heard/experienced.
>
> Second that: reliable and trustworthy, but often not a bargain.
>


Woodcraft, Rockler, etc. are (to me anyway) only viable when you get a
'coupon' for free shipping, 20% off, etc. At that point I'll factor them
in when doing a price search.
If a company can put out significant cost saving discounts monthly and
only then get competitive, their standard pricing is too high.

-Bruce

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---

On 11/22/14, 9:51 AM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 11/21/2014 6:15 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 11/21/14, 4:17 PM, Doug Miller wrote:
>>> dpb <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> On 11/21/2014 11:44 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>> Woodcraft shows basic shipping as free saving substantially on the net
>>>>> cost. Other than the 7-10 day lead time per Woodcraft are there any
>>>>> issues with Woodcraft?
>>>>>
>>>>> FYI: This is for a metalworking project, but since the basic frame
>>>>> work
>>>>> pieces are associated with woodworking tools...
>>>>
>>>> They're a reliable, trustworthy vendor if that's the question. I find
>>>> them generally expensive so rarely purchase anything from them but no
>>>> reason to avoid them as far as fraud, non-delivery or the like that
>>>> I've
>>>> ever heard/experienced.
>>>
>>> Second that: reliable and trustworthy, but often not a bargain.
>>>
>>
>> True dat! Their black Friday event is a joke. :-)
>>
>>
>
> I agree about their black friday event.
>
> I purchased from them for years never had a problem. They were less on
> many back then, then Rockler, but now I find them way higher.
>
> I will be going there today to pick up the Rikon Slow speed grinder as I
> need one for my lathes.
>
> Years ago I got a great deal on Jorgensen Cabinet Master clamps from
> them. I think they were $14 a piece practically. I bought the max
> allowable. Wish I had ordered more and sent them to a friend.
>

The one great deal they have this year is a bunch of Jet parallel clamps
for 50% off.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 11:13:42 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

> Top that off with the fact that I have seen the EXACT hand tools in
> Harbor Freight that I saw last time I was there along with the fact they
> are generally overpriced on everything to begin with, and there is no
> reason for me to go in a Woodcraft store.
>
> That being said, I have talked other guys that have exactly the opposite
> experience at their local Woodcraft. I think the flavor of the store has
> a lot to do with the fact the are franchises,

But the tools all come out of the same warehouse.

I'd be interested in knowing which tools you saw in both HF and
Woodcraft. The same brand?

On 11/23/14, 7:44 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 11/22/2014 7:21 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Nov 2014 11:13:42 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> Top that off with the fact that I have seen the EXACT hand tools in
>>> Harbor Freight that I saw last time I was there along with the fact they
>>> are generally overpriced on everything to begin with, and there is no
>>> reason for me to go in a Woodcraft store.
>>>
>>> That being said, I have talked other guys that have exactly the opposite
>>> experience at their local Woodcraft. I think the flavor of the store has
>>> a lot to do with the fact the are franchises,
>>
>> But the tools all come out of the same warehouse.
>>
>> I'd be interested in knowing which tools you saw in both HF and
>> Woodcraft. The same brand?
>>
>
>
> With the Texas franchise, I interviewed for a part time job but was
> offered to manage the store with the opening of one of the stores about
> 5~6 years ago, the store manager is free to buy outside as he saw fit.
>
> But aside from that Woodcraft has a "Columbian" brand bar clamp that is
> identical to the clamps found in HF, with the China stamp in the same
> place.

I can confirm this with Rockler. They had a hand hole reamer tool,
orange plastic handle with three black, hex shafted bits on closeout.
Unmistakeably the same tool sold by HF. Only difference was there
closeout price was 5x higher than the HF price. I left some clues in the
reviews but they blocked it....

I have bought some things from these retailers that were obvious HF
fodder at a time when their price was good. Years later I'd buy the same
thing from HF on a whim and noticed that the HF contraption was of
poorer finish quality. Examples like a carpenters triangle come to mind.
It may be that some things get inspections and those that qualify as
'perfect' go to the retailers and the cosmetic rejects go to HF.


-Bruce


--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: [email protected] ---

On 11/23/14, 9:25 AM, Brewster wrote:
>
> I have bought some things from these retailers that were obvious HF
> fodder at a time when their price was good. Years later I'd buy the
> same thing from HF on a whim and noticed that the HF contraption was
> of poorer finish quality. Examples like a carpenters triangle come to
> mind. It may be that some things get inspections and those that
> qualify as 'perfect' go to the retailers and the cosmetic rejects go
> to HF.
>
>
> -Bruce
>

And don't be too sure about the quality control either.
When I was looking for a new slide rule I checked Woodcraft because I
was having difficulty finding one that was good quality and actually
*square.*

Probably 1/3 of the Woodcraft squares weren't.
(Yes, I checked and double-checked the engineering squares I used as a
reference.)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 11/23/2014 11:46 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> Line of screws and fasteners?
I do a lot of comparison shopping and buy those things that are the best
value for the intended job. If I am buying some thing that will be
used once a year or less I may go quite cheap, but if I am buying
Something that will be used daily I may go to the other end of the
spectrum.

HOWEVER. Screws and Fasteners are a different thing. I have bought to
many cheap screws where that are made out such poor quality metal that
they will ream out on the first attempt to put them in a hole. Others
the heads break off.

Since I am not a big user and one day the screw may be to hang a small
picture and the next to put a table together, I go with the the more
expensive, so what ever I need it for it will be up to the job

"Keith Nuttle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 11/23/2014 11:46 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> Line of screws and fasteners?
> I do a lot of comparison shopping and buy those things that are the best
> value for the intended job. If I am buying some thing that will be used
> once a year or less I may go quite cheap, but if I am buying Something
> that will be used daily I may go to the other end of the spectrum.
>
> HOWEVER. Screws and Fasteners are a different thing. I have bought to
> many cheap screws where that are made out such poor quality metal that
> they will ream out on the first attempt to put them in a hole. Others
> the heads break off.

You just described Hillman (IMO). I found one of the other big names is
made by Hillman now also. I seem to think it might have been Crown.

On 11/23/14, 10:23 PM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 11/23/2014 11:51 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 11/23/14, 9:25 AM, Brewster wrote:
>>>
>>> I have bought some things from these retailers that were obvious HF
>>> fodder at a time when their price was good. Years later I'd buy the
>>> same thing from HF on a whim and noticed that the HF contraption was
>>> of poorer finish quality. Examples like a carpenters triangle come to
>>> mind. It may be that some things get inspections and those that
>>> qualify as 'perfect' go to the retailers and the cosmetic rejects go
>>> to HF.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Bruce
>>>
>>
>> And don't be too sure about the quality control either.
>> When I was looking for a new slide rule I checked Woodcraft because I
>> was having difficulty finding one that was good quality and actually
>> *square.*
>>
>> Probably 1/3 of the Woodcraft squares weren't.
>> (Yes, I checked and double-checked the engineering squares I used as a
>> reference.)
>>
>>
>
> By slide rule I think you mean combo square.
> I have a Starret, dead on.
>

Yes, I don't know why I had slide rule on the brain. :-)


> But I also have an old Stanley and a little empire. The empire and
> Stanley I adjusted by taking a small file and working them to square.
> just take a board that has been jointed. mark a line knife is better.
> using the same edge flip the square over and mark another line right
> next to that line. you eye should be able to pick up if they diverge.
> The should be parallel if not figure out where you need to remove
> material and take a file and remove less than half of what you think you
> need to. And check again.
>

A brand new square should be square.
I know how to check and adjust squares.
I do it when I drop one... not when I buy one. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[email protected] wrote:
> On Saturday, November 22, 2014 7:21:16 PM UTC-6, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>
>> But the tools all come out of the same warehouse.
>>
>> I'd be interested in knowing which tools you saw in both HF and
>> Woodcraft. The same brand?
> The local store here had sets of different marking and layout tools as well as inexpensive clamps. I purchased these at HF, and soon after saw them in Woodcraft when I was teaching wood turning. I used these when turning pens, and at HF they were half the price of Woodcraft. The only difference was the color of the plastic box the came in:
>
> http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/143963/WoodRiver-Fractional-Dial-Caliper.aspx
>
> I also bought the digital model and it too was half the price of WC, with no discernible difference.
>
> I also bought these at HF for $8 and encouraged my students to buy them to check wall thickness, various marking needs, etc.:
>
> http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/154573/GRIP-3-piece-8-Caliper-and-Divider-Set.aspx
>
> Bought this to keep my miter saw square when cutting complicated crown moldings that require me to be as accurate as possible (think flat cut composite angles on wide moldings, not upside down and backwards). This was less than half price at HF:
>
> http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/03B73/Shinwa-Japanese-Miter-Square.aspx
>
> Took it to WC when they got them in as I thought I recognized it, and they were identical down to the markings stamped into the actual metal. Ditto this one, except one size smaller:
>
> http://www.woodcraft.com/product/03B74/Pinnacle%2012in%20Combination%20Square%204pc.aspx
>
> At one time they had this set that was Chinese made (this link is for example only, this particular set is made in USA) that was $49. I bought mine at HF after spending some time in there to find a set that was square for $19:
>
> http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/149895/Pinnacle-12in-Combination-Square-4pc.aspx
>
> You get the idea. Inexpensive clamps, utility brushes, empty dispensing bottles, cheap rulers, and on an on... the list at one time was quite large.
>
> Robert
>
>

I thought this one I bought from HF (for less than half the price)
looked familiar!

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/147828/Fractional-Digital-Caliper.aspx

BTW, it's handy even without the digital readout, which is nice because
the power of the battery
will be gone the second time you go to use it.

Bill

On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 22:31:21 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:

> A brand new square should be square.
> I know how to check and adjust squares.
> I do it when I drop one... not when I buy one. :-)

There's a tolerance on all squares. Greatest for a rafter square,
middling for a combination square, and minimal for an engineering square.

And an engineers square is square on both outside and inside.

On 11/24/14, 11:58 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 22:31:21 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> A brand new square should be square. I know how to check and adjust
>> squares. I do it when I drop one... not when I buy one. :-)
>
> There's a tolerance on all squares. Greatest for a rafter square,
> middling for a combination square, and minimal for an engineering
> square.
>
> And an engineers square is square on both outside and inside.
>

My speed square was truer than the combo and other squares I was checking.

I'm not talking barely perceivable or only if extended out 4ft. I'm
talking business card gap on a combo square. That's not tolerance.
That's manufacturer's defect and it shouldn't be on the shelves at a
store like Woodcraft.

What it comes down to is Woodcraft trying to make a premium profit from
selling HF quality tools. I get it, they have to have high margin stuff
so their franchisees can make money. But I'm not giving them my money
for that crap.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 11/24/2014 11:58 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 22:31:21 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> A brand new square should be square.
>> I know how to check and adjust squares.
>> I do it when I drop one... not when I buy one. :-)
>
> There's a tolerance on all squares. Greatest for a rafter square,
> middling for a combination square, and minimal for an engineering square.
>
> And an engineers square is square on both outside and inside.

A carpenter's better be close...

--

[email protected] wrote:

>
> You bet! I'm right there with you. I don't mind paying more for a
> good product, but absolutely won't pay a nickel more than I should
> for a mediocre one.
>
> I <<always>> vote with my wallet, adding another reason they don't
> see me in Woodcraft. When a couple of small hand tools I purchased at
> WC failed (clamps) after 2 weeks, WC wouldn't take them back or
> exchange them since they claimed they were "promo" items, although
> they didn't disclose that at the time of purchase. Imagine my
> surprise to find them at HF for half the price to start with, then
> was able to use their always available 20% off coupon, and at that
> time they had a 90 day return policy on non powered tools.
>
> I also had problems with a second Jet mini lathe I bought, one with
> and overheating motor. WC wouldn't take it back, and told me that I
> needed to ship it to JET since it was not within 14 days of purchase.
> They wouldn't back off, either. A brand new power tool...
>
> So I called Jet, and the regional rep for our area happened to be in
> the office. I told him the story, and he was really pissed about the
> whole thing. He sent me a brand new motor, and gave me new bearings
> just in case they were part of the problem. About two weeks later he
> was down here on business, I introduced myself, and he made WC set
> aside a new lathe for me. The rep told me to keep the motor and
> bearings, just bring in the whole lathe.
>
> The asshats at WC were really pissed off as they felt like I had
> "gone over their heads" and "made them look bad". And they were
> really mad that the rep told me to keep the motor. I never figured
> out why they were pissed off... the problem was resolved and they
> didn't have to lift one lazy finger nor did the store get a ding for
> returned merchandise. I thought that would have been perfect for
> them.
>
> But you know, they felt like I robbed the bank by getting a "free
> motor". I was there for a about two years after that as that was
> where we had our woodturning club meetings, and for months they
> couldn't wait to ask me what I did with my "free motor".
>
> In a later conversation with the Jet rep, he told me that the store
> manager could (at that time) take back any Jet product that had an
> obvious manufacturing defect for up to a year from the date of
> purchase for a no hassle exchange. The store was to call Jet and
> explain the problem, then Jet would issue an RMA, and that was that.
>
> That just made me dislike them more.
>

I guess that pretty well sums up why WC closed up shop and has no stores in
this area anymore. Just don't understand why they even get honorable
mention in woodworking groups.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Mon, 24 Nov 2014 19:57:22 -0500, Mike Marlow wrote:

> I guess that pretty well sums up why WC closed up shop and has no stores
> in this area anymore. Just don't understand why they even get honorable
> mention in woodworking groups.

The fact that the stores are franchises has a lot to do with it. When a
store opened here I worked there part time for a few years. I'd been
woodworking a long time and some of the people there made me feel like a
beginner. And good customer service was a requirement. They've been
there now for almost 10 years and still going strong.

Mike Marlow wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> You bet! I'm right there with you. I don't mind paying more for a
>> good product, but absolutely won't pay a nickel more than I should
>> for a mediocre one.
>>
>> I <<always>> vote with my wallet, adding another reason they don't
>> see me in Woodcraft. When a couple of small hand tools I purchased at
>> WC failed (clamps) after 2 weeks, WC wouldn't take them back or
>> exchange them since they claimed they were "promo" items, although
>> they didn't disclose that at the time of purchase. Imagine my
>> surprise to find them at HF for half the price to start with, then
>> was able to use their always available 20% off coupon, and at that
>> time they had a 90 day return policy on non powered tools.
>>
>> I also had problems with a second Jet mini lathe I bought, one with
>> and overheating motor. WC wouldn't take it back, and told me that I
>> needed to ship it to JET since it was not within 14 days of purchase.
>> They wouldn't back off, either. A brand new power tool...
>>
>> So I called Jet, and the regional rep for our area happened to be in
>> the office. I told him the story, and he was really pissed about the
>> whole thing. He sent me a brand new motor, and gave me new bearings
>> just in case they were part of the problem. About two weeks later he
>> was down here on business, I introduced myself, and he made WC set
>> aside a new lathe for me. The rep told me to keep the motor and
>> bearings, just bring in the whole lathe.
>>
>> The asshats at WC were really pissed off as they felt like I had
>> "gone over their heads" and "made them look bad". And they were
>> really mad that the rep told me to keep the motor. I never figured
>> out why they were pissed off... the problem was resolved and they
>> didn't have to lift one lazy finger nor did the store get a ding for
>> returned merchandise. I thought that would have been perfect for
>> them.
>>
>> But you know, they felt like I robbed the bank by getting a "free
>> motor". I was there for a about two years after that as that was
>> where we had our woodturning club meetings, and for months they
>> couldn't wait to ask me what I did with my "free motor".
>>
>> In a later conversation with the Jet rep, he told me that the store
>> manager could (at that time) take back any Jet product that had an
>> obvious manufacturing defect for up to a year from the date of
>> purchase for a no hassle exchange. The store was to call Jet and
>> explain the problem, then Jet would issue an RMA, and that was that.
>>
>> That just made me dislike them more.
>>
> I guess that pretty well sums up why WC closed up shop and has no stores in
> this area anymore. Just don't understand why they even get honorable
> mention in woodworking groups.
>

That reminds me of a transaction I had with CPO. I didn't like the way
I was being treated (over the course of weeks), and I contacted Delta
and explained my story to them, indicating that CPO was an "authorized
reseller" of theirs and they weren't following all
of the rules for such resellers. Within days, I received a call from a
"higher-up" person at CPO who offered to
send me a unit costing several hundred dollars more, immediately, at no
extra charge. Funny how that works.
Squeaky wheel gets the grease?

Bill

On 11/24/14, 9:18 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
> On 11/24/2014 11:58 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 22:31:21 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>>> A brand new square should be square.
>>> I know how to check and adjust squares.
>>> I do it when I drop one... not when I buy one. :-)
>>
>> There's a tolerance on all squares. Greatest for a rafter square,
>> middling for a combination square, and minimal for an engineering square.
>>
>> And an engineers square is square on both outside and inside.
>>
> And a good engineer helps those with the sloppy framing square to square
> their square by punching the inside of the angle or the outside.
> That makes the large framer calibrate outward and inward.
>
> Martin

When you take them off the shelf at Woodcraft and start doing that, they
ask you to leave the store.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 11/24/2014 7:57 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> I guess that pretty well sums up why WC closed up shop and has no stores in
> this area anymore. Just don't understand why they even get honorable
> mention in woodworking groups.

I've only been to a Woodcraft store twice, and bought only smaller
items. This particular store, while listed as a Woodcraft location,
can't use the Woodcraft name in their signage because the place is too
small, or at least that's what they tell me.

It's a "woodworkers club" - with a shared, rentable shop that's located
above the retail store. The store staff seem to be involved with the
club and the classes they give there.

I can't speak to their return policy, or the accuracy of their squares,
but the guys that work there seem to be enthusiasts who don't mind if
you pick their brains at length, whatever your skill level. One of them
opened a can of stain and tried it out on a scrap for me. So I'd rate
the service pretty good, at least at that one location.

On Wed, 26 Nov 2014 09:11:13 -0600, Leon wrote:

> Now I am wondering what the heck he need with a dead blow hammer under
> my hood.......... He did replace a heater core however...

Probably to pound out a dent he created :-).

On 11/26/14, 9:12 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
> On 11/25/2014 9:09 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 11/24/14, 9:18 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>>> On 11/24/2014 11:58 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 22:31:21 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> A brand new square should be square. I know how to check and
>>>>> adjust squares. I do it when I drop one... not when I buy
>>>>> one. :-)
>>>>
>>>> There's a tolerance on all squares. Greatest for a rafter
>>>> square, middling for a combination square, and minimal for an
>>>> engineering square.
>>>>
>>>> And an engineers square is square on both outside and inside.
>>>>
>>> And a good engineer helps those with the sloppy framing square to
>>> square their square by punching the inside of the angle or the
>>> outside. That makes the large framer calibrate outward and
>>> inward.
>>>
>>> Martin
>>
>> When you take them off the shelf at Woodcraft and start doing that,
>> they ask you to leave the store.
>>
>>
> It should be done already. The task is done in the field or
> elsewhere. Someone always drops their square on one leg and it
> changes the angle slightly.
>
> A lot of people just ignore and hope it is close enough until they
> buy another.
>
> Martin

I know that and I know how to do it.
My whole point in all this is that a woodworking store should be selling
square squares and not ones that need adjusted.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 11/27/14, 8:32 AM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 11/26/2014 10:16 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 11/26/14, 9:12 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>>> On 11/25/2014 9:09 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 11/24/14, 9:18 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>>>>> On 11/24/2014 11:58 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 22:31:21 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A brand new square should be square. I know how to check and
>>>>>>> adjust squares. I do it when I drop one... not when I buy
>>>>>>> one. :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's a tolerance on all squares. Greatest for a rafter
>>>>>> square, middling for a combination square, and minimal for an
>>>>>> engineering square.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And an engineers square is square on both outside and inside.
>>>>>>
>>>>> And a good engineer helps those with the sloppy framing square to
>>>>> square their square by punching the inside of the angle or the
>>>>> outside. That makes the large framer calibrate outward and
>>>>> inward.
>>>>>
>>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>> When you take them off the shelf at Woodcraft and start doing that,
>>>> they ask you to leave the store.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It should be done already. The task is done in the field or
>>> elsewhere. Someone always drops their square on one leg and it
>>> changes the angle slightly.
>>>
>>> A lot of people just ignore and hope it is close enough until they
>>> buy another.
>>>
>>> Martin
>>
>> I know that and I know how to do it.
>> My whole point in all this is that a woodworking store should be selling
>> square squares and not ones that need adjusted.
>>
>>
>
> And what about the customer that pulls one out and drops it?
>

You're right. I'm sure that's what keeps happening in all the stores.
How silly of me to think otherwise.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

"Bob La Londe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I need a few cast iron saw extensions for a project. The SawStop ones
> claim to be ground to within .0001. (I will be surprised if they really
> are, but very pleased.)
>
> Rockler has them for less, but after the heavy freight charge they are
> much more expensive to my door.
>
> Woodcraft shows basic shipping as free saving substantially on the net
> cost. Other than the 7-10 day lead time per Woodcraft are there any issues
> with Woodcraft?
>
> FYI: This is for a metalworking project, but since the basic frame work
> pieces are associated with woodworking tools...

Well, I don't know if I will ever receive the table saw extensions. Atleast
not from WoodCraft.

Their website never showed the order in the history. (Even now) After a
couple days I contacted them and asked when it would ship. I was told it
would ship on Monday. (Last Monday).

I was concerned since there was a hold on my credit card that was larger
than the purchase should have been, so I contacted them to confirm I was
going to get the free shipping indicated on their website. On Tuesday I
received a message saying I was being charged a rather significant amount
for shipping, and wanting to know if I wanted to cancel the order. I
replied that if they had actually already shipped the day before like I had
been told I would accept them and chalk it up as a lesson learned, but if it
had not shipped I wanted to cancel the order, but to please advise me either
way. I never heard back. I know it's a holiday, so I'll wait until Monday
and see. My credit card still shows the hold, but not a charge. I probably
won't buy from WoodCraft on-line again.

Now for the big insult. I have received atleast one SPAM per day from them
ever since the initial order. Some days I received two.

"Bob La Londe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Bob La Londe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I need a few cast iron saw extensions for a project. The SawStop ones
>> claim to be ground to within .0001. (I will be surprised if they really
>> are, but very pleased.)
>>
>> Rockler has them for less, but after the heavy freight charge they are
>> much more expensive to my door.
>>
>> Woodcraft shows basic shipping as free saving substantially on the net
>> cost. Other than the 7-10 day lead time per Woodcraft are there any
>> issues with Woodcraft?
>>
>> FYI: This is for a metalworking project, but since the basic frame work
>> pieces are associated with woodworking tools...
>
> Well, I don't know if I will ever receive the table saw extensions.
> Atleast not from WoodCraft.
>
> Their website never showed the order in the history. (Even now) After a
> couple days I contacted them and asked when it would ship. I was told it
> would ship on Monday. (Last Monday).
>
> I was concerned since there was a hold on my credit card that was larger
> than the purchase should have been, so I contacted them to confirm I was
> going to get the free shipping indicated on their website. On Tuesday I
> received a message saying I was being charged a rather significant amount
> for shipping, and wanting to know if I wanted to cancel the order. I
> replied that if they had actually already shipped the day before like I
> had been told I would accept them and chalk it up as a lesson learned, but
> if it had not shipped I wanted to cancel the order, but to please advise
> me either way. I never heard back. I know it's a holiday, so I'll wait
> until Monday and see. My credit card still shows the hold, but not a
> charge. I probably won't buy from WoodCraft on-line again.
>
> Now for the big insult. I have received atleast one SPAM per day from
> them ever since the initial order. Some days I received two.

I continue to receive daily SPAM from Woodcraft. I was too busy taking care
of customers yesterday and today to mess with it, but when I walked around
the front of the shop this evening there was a package from them. It
contained one (1) (not the four (4) I ordered) cast iron wing, and tracking
shows it did not ship when they originally told me it would. This is just a
big cluster. I doubt I'll ever order from them again. Since they don't
have a local store I can speak to the quality of counter staff. My CC still
doesn't show a charge. Just the hold. I have not heard back from Woodcraft
about the situation since last Tuesday.

I have since found two other sources for the same price with free shipping
on this item. Both confirmed free shipping. Woodcraft might be wonderful
in person, but my on-line experience was horrible and its still not over.

"Bob La Londe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Bob La Londe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Bob La Londe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> I need a few cast iron saw extensions for a project. The SawStop ones
>>> claim to be ground to within .0001. (I will be surprised if they really
>>> are, but very pleased.)
>>>
>>> Rockler has them for less, but after the heavy freight charge they are
>>> much more expensive to my door.
>>>
>>> Woodcraft shows basic shipping as free saving substantially on the net
>>> cost. Other than the 7-10 day lead time per Woodcraft are there any
>>> issues with Woodcraft?
>>>
>>> FYI: This is for a metalworking project, but since the basic frame work
>>> pieces are associated with woodworking tools...
>>
>> Well, I don't know if I will ever receive the table saw extensions.
>> Atleast not from WoodCraft.
>>
>> Their website never showed the order in the history. (Even now) After a
>> couple days I contacted them and asked when it would ship. I was told it
>> would ship on Monday. (Last Monday).
>>
>> I was concerned since there was a hold on my credit card that was larger
>> than the purchase should have been, so I contacted them to confirm I was
>> going to get the free shipping indicated on their website. On Tuesday I
>> received a message saying I was being charged a rather significant amount
>> for shipping, and wanting to know if I wanted to cancel the order. I
>> replied that if they had actually already shipped the day before like I
>> had been told I would accept them and chalk it up as a lesson learned,
>> but if it had not shipped I wanted to cancel the order, but to please
>> advise me either way. I never heard back. I know it's a holiday, so
>> I'll wait until Monday and see. My credit card still shows the hold, but
>> not a charge. I probably won't buy from WoodCraft on-line again.
>>
>> Now for the big insult. I have received atleast one SPAM per day from
>> them ever since the initial order. Some days I received two.
>
> I continue to receive daily SPAM from Woodcraft. I was too busy taking
> care of customers yesterday and today to mess with it, but when I walked
> around the front of the shop this evening there was a package from them.
> It contained one (1) (not the four (4) I ordered) cast iron wing, and
> tracking shows it did not ship when they originally told me it would.
> This is just a big cluster. I doubt I'll ever order from them again.
> Since they don't have a local store I can speak to the quality of counter
> staff. My CC still doesn't show a charge. Just the hold. I have not
> heard back from Woodcraft about the situation since last Tuesday.
>
> I have since found two other sources for the same price with free shipping
> on this item. Both confirmed free shipping. Woodcraft might be wonderful
> in person, but my on-line experience was horrible and its still not over.


Well, they have now charged my credit card. For the full amount for four
(4) leaves, and $125 for shipping. I've only received one (1) leaf and it
was shipped AFTER I notified them to cancel the order. To the guy who said
I'ld have to try them to know for sure.... what did I ever do to you? You
could have just told me they were an unethical organization and their
on-line sucks.

On 11/22/2014 11:08 AM, Brewster wrote:

> Woodcraft, Rockler, etc. are (to me anyway) only viable when you get a
> 'coupon' for free shipping, 20% off, etc. At that point I'll factor them
> in when doing a price search.
> If a company can put out significant cost saving discounts monthly and
> only then get competitive, their standard pricing is too high.
>
> -Bruce

They embody the old retail store value. Remember them from decades ago?

Our local Woodcraft is higher priced than many other store, but they
offer one thing the discounters do not - - - service. For the first time
buyer of a tool, you can get plenty of free advice on how to properly
use it. Advice on how a finish will work. etc. You don't get that at
Amazon or the big box stores.

Many do not need that service and are unwilling to pay for it. That is
why WalMart thrives and most old time department stores closed up 30
years ago.

On 11/25/2014 9:09 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 11/24/14, 9:18 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>> On 11/24/2014 11:58 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>>> On Sun, 23 Nov 2014 22:31:21 -0600, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>
>>>> A brand new square should be square.
>>>> I know how to check and adjust squares.
>>>> I do it when I drop one... not when I buy one. :-)
>>>
>>> There's a tolerance on all squares. Greatest for a rafter square,
>>> middling for a combination square, and minimal for an engineering
>>> square.
>>>
>>> And an engineers square is square on both outside and inside.
>>>
>> And a good engineer helps those with the sloppy framing square to square
>> their square by punching the inside of the angle or the outside.
>> That makes the large framer calibrate outward and inward.
>>
>> Martin
>
> When you take them off the shelf at Woodcraft and start doing that, they
> ask you to leave the store.
>
>
It should be done already. The task is done in the field or elsewhere.
Someone always drops their square on one leg and it changes the angle
slightly.

A lot of people just ignore and hope it is close enough until they buy
another.

Martin