I'm working on my first of two workbenches.
The first is for practice and is made of pine using the Veritas design
with the tool tray in the center of two slabs.
The second will be made of maple and the same design.
I have two slabs of 11" by 70" and 2" thick. The slabs are laminated
so I need to trim them and square them up.
The tops have been hand planed and are in very good shape. I just
need to get these slabs squared up on the sides before screwing
them to the tool tray and battens and attaching the skirts.
What is the best tool a hobbyist can use to cut these slabs?
I'm especially interested in getting the 70" rip cuts straight.
The tablesaw is out for me. Mine is too small to make the
cuts safely or accurately. I was planning on using a circular saw
but thought a jigsaw might be in the running. I don't own a
jigsaw but will buy one if it will give the best results. I can
certainly make use of it later.
The tool used has to be for a hobbyist, so a two thousand dollar tool
is out of the question. I also want to make the cuts myself and don't
want to take the slabs to a shop where they will cut them.
Thanks
Ken
"Ken" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Ken" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> Ken,
>>
>> You are going to miss out on part of the Zen experience by using the
>> circular saw and straight edge... You might want to use a hand rip saw
>> and
>> then plane the hand sawn edge straight and square and parallel to the
>> other
>> edge. It's certainly doable! Pick up a couple nice panel saws (e.g.,
>> taper
>> ground and breasted crosscut saw, and taper ground rip saw) and go at it!
>> It
>> certainly will add to the entertainment and satisfaction factors... and
>> to
>> the enjoyment time!
>>
> snip
>>
>> John
>>
>
> Sounds like a good workbench would be helpful in planing the edges of
> those
> slabs ;)
It would be helpful... It's kind of like the "How did they forge the first
hammer?" question. ;~)
You can use saw horses with some 90 degree fixtures clamped to them. The
fixture can be made of 1X stock with a diagonal brace. Clamp the board to
the fixture. The weight of the board is born by the saw horse and the
fixture serves to hold the board on edge. It will probably be a little low
if you have 24" high saw horses so you may want to either put the horses up
on blocks or make some taller saw horses.
snip
> mortise. The tenons taught me that I could use better saws and better
> technique.
> I'll need to practice my hand saw work before tackling the bench slabs but
> that
> is something I would definitely like to do. Thanks for the good advice.
I often do skill building exercises with my boys, e.g., sawing to a line.
When I taught a handcut dovetail class at my club recently there were
dramatic improvements from the practice boards to the boards for the pencil
boxes. The student's eyes lit up just like my boys eyes do when they develop
a new skill. It's cool!
John
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:KkFwg.1816
> With a good blade and saw, it will do every bit as good as a tablesaw.
You must have a really high end power saw or a pretty meager tablesaw then.
If most power saws were with good blades were capable of cutting as well as
a tablesaw, a lot fewer people would own tablesaws.
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> >snip
You might want to use a hand rip saw and
> then plane the hand sawn edge straight and square and parallel to the
> other edge. It's certainly doable! Pick up a couple nice panel saws (e.g.,
> taper ground and breasted crosscut saw, and taper ground rip saw) and go
> at it! It certainly will add to the entertainment and satisfaction
> factors... and to the enjoyment time!
That's ok for you young dogs, but those of us that are long of tooth, oh
well. . . . .
The only place I know to get the saw's you describe is on E-bay (which I
have done).
> I recently taught my 8 and 10 years old sons how to resaw boards with a
> hand rip saw and then hand plane the sawn surfaces flat and parallel to
> the other side. My 10 year old has made the comment "Wood is magic!" a
> number of times as I've taught them how to use hand saws, coping saws,
> block planes, bench planes, and various marking and layout tools to make
> things. I've even had them do handcut dovetails and their first attempts
> were very good. I've got them scribing sleepers to the concrete floor
> (above grade due to rock) in the family room so we can put down insulation
> and an oak strip floor. Their scribe work is so good I don't check it
> before cutting... the sleepers fit fine the first time!
>
Very well said! I have a nice 10 pt Disston crosscut saw that does quite
well. It is often my tool of choice when cutting a piece of rough lumber to
length. I also have a 1940's vintage Crafstman taper ground saw that I
converted to a 10 pt rip saw. It was my Dad's saw. It will rip or cut cross
grain (shades of Tage Frid). I can't imagine a chairmaker not having such a
saw when cutting seat blanks.
On Sat, 22 Jul 2006 18:18:03 -0400, "Ken" <[email protected]>
wrote:
[...snip..]
>
>What is the best tool a hobbyist can use to cut these slabs?
>I'm especially interested in getting the 70" rip cuts straight.
>
[...snip...]
I'd use a circular saw, but clean up the edge with a router. Use a
straightedge to guide each of the tools.
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "todd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Not necessarily. I've made a few tabletops.
>
> So have I.
>
>> I could use my ROS and
>> eventually get the top sanded.
>
> So could I but I don't. Wrong tool for the job. My ROS has never had
> anything courser than 180 grit on it. Any need to remove more than that
> should be met with a cutting tool.
You're welcome to that opinion.
> > However, my local lumber place has a drum
>> sander and sands the top for $8. We all rely on outside people for
> various
>> facets of our woodworking.
>
> Realy? Tell me then, when was the last time I sent something out?
You'll see that I didn't say you send anything out. I said you rely on
outside people. Oh, wait. I get it. You forged the steel for your planes,
right? You cut your own saw blades from steel blanks and cement carbides on
the teeth. The point is, we all pay people for stuff to help us make other
stuff, in varying degrees. I wouldn't question the OP's craftsmanship if he
chose to have a shop square up the sides of his benches, although I'd think
it was unncessary.
> For the OP, I don't think it's that hard to do
>> what he wants himself,
>
> Neither do I. His question was how he should do it himself, not who to
> send
> it to. A circular saw and straightedge will do a fine job of it.
In fact, he specifically said he didn't want to sent it out, IIRC.
Personally, I'd add a router and flush trim bit to the end of your list for
the final trim.
todd
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>A straightedge and circular saw will do a fine job. The jigsaw would never
> make it (though if you were thinking of getting one, get a good one, it
> will
> be a frequently used tool for curves, inside cutouts, ect).
>
> "Ken" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> I'm working on my first of two workbenches.
>snip
Or take them to a professional shop and pay them to cut the slabs for you.
It will probably be a nominal charge and worth every penny. :-)
Taking that to it's logical end, why not just buy a bench and not worry
about it? Then you could just hire someone to do the woodworking for you.
Why work that hard? No reason to do it yourself if you can pay someone else
to, right?
"Lowell Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:E0ywg.1378$2u4.629@trnddc06...
>
> Or take them to a professional shop and pay them to cut the slabs for you.
> It will probably be a nominal charge and worth every penny. :-)
>
>
"Ken" <[email protected]> wrote:
>What is the best tool a hobbyist can use to cut these slabs?
>I'm especially interested in getting the 70" rip cuts straight.
Head to your local top shop.
Let tham take a pass with the 48" drum sander, then cut it to size.
SFWIW, my guy has at least a 12" table saw with a power feed.
Probably typical of most places.
Will give you a real pro trim.
Lew
With a good blade and saw, it will do every bit as good as a tablesaw. What
more do you want?
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "CW" wrote:
>
> > A circular saw and straightedge will do a fine job of it.
>
> If that meets your standards, so be it.
>
> Lew
Thank you for all the timely responses.
A circular saw using the factory edge of a piece of plywood
will be my choice.
As a hobbyist I choose my tools to balance entertainment
value with quality. Sending the top out for cutting and sanding
is mentioned in most if not all of the workbench books. This would
greatly diminish the entertainment value for me so is something
I would avoid.
I choose not to own a planer or jointer. These tools are certainly
available to a hobbyist but don't fit into my view of entertainment.
These two tools are also cheaper than the alternative hand planes
that I use (Veritas). If I bought a planer or jointer, I would use
them and miss out on the joy (zen) of using the hand planes.
As an example, the design calls for 1/2" stock for the bottom of the
tool try. Plywood is suggested for this. I choose to use regular 4/4
stock and hand plane it down to 1/2". I also now buy unsurfaced stock
except for one edge and hand plane the finsihed surface onto it.
Using hand planes is not a practical alternative because of the
time (and cost) involved but it has the most entertainment value for
me and the results are acceptable. I really enjoy using my hand planes
so they are usually the tool of choice for me. I'm sure other people could
certainly have a different view on this.
For me, a workbench is a special kind of project. Speed on this
project is never an issue where it might be if I were building
my kitchen cabinets. I wouldn't buy unsurfaced stock to do my
kitchen cabinets either. If I had the skill to use hand saws to trim the
slabs I would use them.
Skirts and end caps will be attached to the slabs so the edge produced
by the circular saw should be ready to go.
Thanks again for all the responses.
Ken
"Owen Lawrence" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>> Taking that to it's logical end, why not just buy a bench and not worry
>snip
> I reflected on what you said and here's what I learned about me: When
> life is going well I seem to get the most satisfaction out of finishing a
> project. Arriving and being at the destination improves my sense of well
> being. However when life is not going so well, finishing a project is no
> help at all. Yet going down to the workshop, manually sharpening my
> tools then hand planing a piece of scrap down to a pile of shavings does
> me a world of good. My situation might not have improved much, but I'm
> more likely to feel a lot better about it. In that case, it's the journey
> that counts, and it doesn't matter at all where I end up.
>
> - Owen -
Owen,
We probably are not far apart with our wood working. I have spent a lot of
time sharpening and making shavings. I have bench grinders, but only use
them when I get an Ebay chisel that has to be reworked. I use Eazy Laps when
I'm working on a project.
Conceiving and executing a project is where my satisfaction lies. My work
has a lot of flaws, but the friends and family that get the pieces don't
seem to mind. My work is probably 25-30 per cent machine work and the rest
is hand work. I have a Leigh jig, but I cut dovetails by hand, I have
routers, but I do most of my mortises with a chisel and mallet.
I just don't care to rip a 72" long, 2" thick bench top when I have to spend
more for the wood than for a completed top. My three previous benches were
all yellow pine and done by hand.
Lowell
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Taking that to it's logical end, why not just buy a bench and not worry
> about it? Then you could just hire someone to do the woodworking for you.
> Why work that hard? No reason to do it yourself if you can pay someone
> else
> to, right?
>
>snip
Not at all. I would rather be building furniture than hand planing workbench
tops. I recently built a bench exactly how I wanted it. After I finished the
base, I was ready to buy the maple and glue up the top. I walked into The
Cutting Edge one day and they had a 72" long top for less money than the
maple was going to cost me. I bought it, installed it, put a front apron on
it, and I had a bench that was ready to go, and it is perfectly flat.
I immediately started a quartersawn white oak rocking chair of my own design
on my new bench. OBTW, when I buy my wood, I normally get it smooth two
sides and one edge. It saves me a lot of labor in stock preparation, and I
don't feel compromised at all when the piece is finished.
I'll post pictures of the chair soon and let you judge if my time is better
spent making a chair or hand planing a workbench top. :-)
If I were to cut the top, I would use my Porter Cable circular saw and a
straight edge.
In article <[email protected]>,
Ken <[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm working on my first of two workbenches.
<...snipped...>
>I have two slabs of 11" by 70" and 2" thick. The slabs are laminated
>so I need to trim them and square them up.
<...snipped...>
>What is the best tool a hobbyist can use to cut these slabs?
>I'm especially interested in getting the 70" rip cuts straight.
>
>The tablesaw is out for me.
<...snipped...>
>I was planning on using a circular saw
>but thought a jigsaw might be in the running. I don't own a
>jigsaw but will buy one if it will give the best results. I can
>certainly make use of it later.
>
A good quality jigsaw like a Milwaukeed or Bosch, with a good quality
blade (IME Bosch are the best) could make this cut; I have used mine
to trim doors. But, for 2" thick maple I believe the circular saw
would be better suited. get a straightedge somewhat longer than the
70" length of your cut and clamp it to the slab so that it guides the
saw in a along your cutline. Since you imply that you have a smaller
than standard tablesaw at the moment, you probably would benefit from
making a more permanent saw guide. Google for "saw sled" and you
should find some good ideas. The classic source for the straight edge
is the factory edge of a piece of plywood.
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]
"Ken" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm working on my first of two workbenches.
> The first is for practice and is made of pine using the Veritas design
> with the tool tray in the center of two slabs.
> The second will be made of maple and the same design.
>
> I have two slabs of 11" by 70" and 2" thick. The slabs are laminated
> so I need to trim them and square them up.
>
> The tops have been hand planed and are in very good shape. I just
> need to get these slabs squared up on the sides before screwing
> them to the tool tray and battens and attaching the skirts.
>
> What is the best tool a hobbyist can use to cut these slabs?
> I'm especially interested in getting the 70" rip cuts straight.
>
> The tablesaw is out for me. Mine is too small to make the
> cuts safely or accurately. I was planning on using a circular saw
> but thought a jigsaw might be in the running. I don't own a
> jigsaw but will buy one if it will give the best results. I can
> certainly make use of it later.
>
> The tool used has to be for a hobbyist, so a two thousand dollar tool
> is out of the question. I also want to make the cuts myself and don't
> want to take the slabs to a shop where they will cut them.
>
Some sort of saw guide should do the trick. Lot of folks make them. Just
buy something. Or make one. I have used the edge of MDF or aluminum angle.
There are many variations on a saw guide. Just look at google.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22saw+guide%22
Leonard, what two Comm. Colleges do you speak of?
I would like to give them a call.
Thanks,
Wayne
Columbia MD
"leonard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> hi ken
>
> you might be able find a community college woodworking classroom that
> would let you cut the slabs yourself on one of there tablesaws. that way
> You use the right tool and do the work your self and maybe meet some good
> people.I live near Baltimore and there are two community colleges that
> will allow this type of thing.
>
>
> Len
>
"todd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Not necessarily. I've made a few tabletops.
So have I.
> I could use my ROS and
> eventually get the top sanded.
So could I but I don't. Wrong tool for the job. My ROS has never had
anything courser than 180 grit on it. Any need to remove more than that
should be met with a cutting tool.
> However, my local lumber place has a drum
> sander and sands the top for $8. We all rely on outside people for
various
> facets of our woodworking.
Realy? Tell me then, when was the last time I sent something out?
For the OP, I don't think it's that hard to do
> what he wants himself,
Neither do I. His question was how he should do it himself, not who to send
it to. A circular saw and straightedge will do a fine job of it.
A straightedge and circular saw will do a fine job. The jigsaw would never
make it (though if you were thinking of getting one, get a good one, it will
be a frequently used tool for curves, inside cutouts, ect).
"Ken" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm working on my first of two workbenches.
> The first is for practice and is made of pine using the Veritas design
> with the tool tray in the center of two slabs.
> The second will be made of maple and the same design.
>
> I have two slabs of 11" by 70" and 2" thick. The slabs are laminated
> so I need to trim them and square them up.
>
> The tops have been hand planed and are in very good shape. I just
> need to get these slabs squared up on the sides before screwing
> them to the tool tray and battens and attaching the skirts.
>
> What is the best tool a hobbyist can use to cut these slabs?
> I'm especially interested in getting the 70" rip cuts straight.
>
> The tablesaw is out for me. Mine is too small to make the
> cuts safely or accurately. I was planning on using a circular saw
> but thought a jigsaw might be in the running. I don't own a
> jigsaw but will buy one if it will give the best results. I can
> certainly make use of it later.
>
> The tool used has to be for a hobbyist, so a two thousand dollar tool
> is out of the question. I also want to make the cuts myself and don't
> want to take the slabs to a shop where they will cut them.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Ken
>
>
"John Grossbohlin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Ken" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> Ken,
>
> You are going to miss out on part of the Zen experience by using the
> circular saw and straight edge... You might want to use a hand rip saw and
> then plane the hand sawn edge straight and square and parallel to the other
> edge. It's certainly doable! Pick up a couple nice panel saws (e.g., taper
> ground and breasted crosscut saw, and taper ground rip saw) and go at it! It
> certainly will add to the entertainment and satisfaction factors... and to
> the enjoyment time!
>
snip
>
> John
>
Sounds like a good workbench would be helpful in planing the edges of those
slabs ;)
I'll give the hand saws a try for the 2nd bench (maple). I'm near assembly on my
first bench (pine) and would like to get it together to help build the maple
bench.
The Veritas design has trestle legs with butt joints and truss rods. I changed
all
the butt joints to mortise and tenon. These I cut by hand. Doing the mortises by
hand is great fun. One of my reading sources said after the initial mortise cut
is started to just _wail_ away at it. Wail is what I did. Felt great and gave a
nice
mortise. The tenons taught me that I could use better saws and better technique.
I'll need to practice my hand saw work before tackling the bench slabs but that
is something I would definitely like to do. Thanks for the good advice.
Ken
>> Taking that to it's logical end, why not just buy a bench and not worry
>> about it? Then you could just hire someone to do the woodworking for you.
>> Why work that hard? No reason to do it yourself if you can pay someone
>> else
>> to, right?
Sometimes I'd like to do that, but don't feel I can afford to. We don't all
have an endless supply of money for these things. I probably started
building stuff when I was a kid because I didn't have any money to buy the
things I wanted. Turns out I enjoy the design/build process so I've kept
doing it.
> Not at all. I would rather be building furniture than hand planing
> workbench tops. I recently built a bench exactly how I wanted it. After I
> finished the base, I was ready to buy the maple and glue up the top. I
> walked into The Cutting Edge one day and they had a 72" long top for less
> money than the maple was going to cost me. I bought it, installed it, put
> a front apron on it, and I had a bench that was ready to go, and it is
> perfectly flat.
>
> I immediately started a quartersawn white oak rocking chair of my own
> design on my new bench. OBTW, when I buy my wood, I normally get it smooth
> two sides and one edge. It saves me a lot of labor in stock preparation,
> and I don't feel compromised at all when the piece is finished.
>
> I'll post pictures of the chair soon and let you judge if my time is
> better spent making a chair or hand planing a workbench top. :-)
Everyone's different. Try my glasses on for proof.
I reflected on what you said and here's what I learned about me: When life
is going well I seem to get the most satisfaction out of finishing a
project. Arriving and being at the destination improves my sense of well
being. However when life is not going so well, finishing a project is no
help at all. Yet going down to the workshop, manually sharpening my tools
then hand planing a piece of scrap down to a pile of shavings does me a
world of good. My situation might not have improved much, but I'm more
likely to feel a lot better about it. In that case, it's the journey that
counts, and it doesn't matter at all where I end up.
- Owen -
hi ken
you might be able find a community college woodworking classroom that would
let you cut the slabs yourself on one of there tablesaws. that way You use
the right tool and do the work your self and maybe meet some good people.I
live near Baltimore and there are two community colleges that will allow
this type of thing.
Len
"todd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> You forged the steel for your planes,
> right? You cut your own saw blades from steel blanks and cement carbides
on
> the teeth.
That's my day job. I do wood for a hobby. There's a lot of diference between
buying tools and paying someone to use them.
Not necessarily. I've made a few tabletops. I could use my ROS and
eventually get the top sanded. However, my local lumber place has a drum
sander and sands the top for $8. We all rely on outside people for various
facets of our woodworking. For the OP, I don't think it's that hard to do
what he wants himself, but I wouldn't take it to the "logical" end you did.
todd
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Taking that to it's logical end, why not just buy a bench and not worry
> about it? Then you could just hire someone to do the woodworking for you.
> Why work that hard? No reason to do it yourself if you can pay someone
> else
> to, right?
>
> "Lowell Holmes" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:E0ywg.1378$2u4.629@trnddc06...
>>
>> Or take them to a professional shop and pay them to cut the slabs for
>> you.
>> It will probably be a nominal charge and worth every penny. :-)
>>
>>
>
>
"Ken" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thank you for all the timely responses.
>
> A circular saw using the factory edge of a piece of plywood
> will be my choice.
>
> As a hobbyist I choose my tools to balance entertainment
> value with quality. Sending the top out for cutting and sanding
> is mentioned in most if not all of the workbench books. This would
> greatly diminish the entertainment value for me so is something
> I would avoid.
>
> I choose not to own a planer or jointer. These tools are certainly
> available to a hobbyist but don't fit into my view of entertainment.
> These two tools are also cheaper than the alternative hand planes
> that I use (Veritas). If I bought a planer or jointer, I would use
> them and miss out on the joy (zen) of using the hand planes.
Ken,
You are going to miss out on part of the Zen experience by using the
circular saw and straight edge... You might want to use a hand rip saw and
then plane the hand sawn edge straight and square and parallel to the other
edge. It's certainly doable! Pick up a couple nice panel saws (e.g., taper
ground and breasted crosscut saw, and taper ground rip saw) and go at it! It
certainly will add to the entertainment and satisfaction factors... and to
the enjoyment time!
I recently taught my 8 and 10 years old sons how to resaw boards with a hand
rip saw and then hand plane the sawn surfaces flat and parallel to the other
side. My 10 year old has made the comment "Wood is magic!" a number of times
as I've taught them how to use hand saws, coping saws, block planes, bench
planes, and various marking and layout tools to make things. I've even had
them do handcut dovetails and their first attempts were very good. I've got
them scribing sleepers to the concrete floor (above grade due to rock) in
the family room so we can put down insulation and an oak strip floor. Their
scribe work is so good I don't check it before cutting... the sleepers fit
fine the first time!
What really got them fired up was spending a few hours with Roy Underhill.
Prior to that they were of the opinion that you NEEDED all the big
stationary tools like Norm. (In hind-sight maybe they should have met Roy
before they met Norm??) I've got a good assortment of large stationary tools
and good quality hand tools. I've purposely been using hand tools more
lately (even on the renovation work I'm doing now) so that the boys see how
tasks can be accomplished with hand tools. It keeps them engaged by letting
them know that hand tools are NOT inferior tools, i.e., they understand that
just because I don't let them use the 3 HP table saw and 8" jointer doesn't
mean they cannot get to the same place with the hand rip saw and hand
planes.
John
"CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "todd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "CW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> You forged the steel for your planes,
>> right? You cut your own saw blades from steel blanks and cement carbides
> on
>> the teeth.
>
> That's my day job. I do wood for a hobby. There's a lot of diference
> between
> buying tools and paying someone to use them.
So you make any tool that you are capable of making? You've never bought
something that given enough time you could have made yourself? If that's
true, then bravo. Otherwise, it's just another end of the same stick.
todd