WHAT an awesome tool! This honing guide is seriously substantial and
huge compared to the newer plastic 809, one of which I cracked when
clamping a blade in it to be tight enough (I fixed it with epoxy and a small
wood screw). The 810 I got is the real long one, where the threaded post
is clamped from the back and not the top of it, and the steel body has a
"crook-down" toward where the blade is clamped, another design of metal
810 has a "straight-er" body, and I think it is shorter.
BTW if anyone has had a problem of the blade skewing on it's own, just
make sure it is clamped so that the side of the blade is against the in-side
of the slot's wall, left or right, maybe stick a hardwood shim in there on
the other side of the blade, and go gentler so the stone does the work.
I think it would be better for companies, that once they have a well made
tool designed and in production, don't cease it and flip crap at the public
for the sake of economy, just raise the damn price and keep it going. The
plastic 809 sells for $26.xx in stores, no doubt the same the older 810
sold for, but if the older 810 is worth at least $44.95 these days as new, I
would still buy it.
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
> Some folks do exactly that:
>
> <http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=51868&cat=1,43072,43078&ap=1>
> <http://www.garrettwade.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=105910&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=12395&iSubCat=12400&iProductID=105910>
>
> Barry
I havn't bought either of those yet but I don't think I need to, for my skills. I would
like to have the Veritas though... and I also think your point doesn't exactly match
up to mine. Those products are new design and production, the General 810 goes
way back through several design changes over many years. In my post I am referring
mostly to tool production in the US and it's concerns with economy, it's just a "sad
route" to take. The Stanley Co. is no doubt one of the worst (best) examples of this,
they could still be making 750 and 720 chisels in high alloy HCS at RC 60 and
selling them for what they are worth, $30 to $40 each.
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
"AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Yeah... I think, with the way you've gone with that last set of text, you've
>forgotten my point. It's the second paragraph set, my answer there.
I trust that in some context, that makes sense! <g>
>Because of all the "other" kinds of business possibilities that exist now,
>what I am yakking about wouldn't be a problem, anyone knows it. LN
>is a smaller producer but they are distributing everywhere they possibly
>can. It's a good example.
Yes, it is. They are distributing everywhere they possibly can, and
that is VERY limited distribution compared to mass-market products.
Heck, they aren't even in all the specialty woodworking stores (e.g.,
Rockler, Lee Valley), much less in high-volume outlets like the borgs,
Ace, True Value, Amazon, etc.
> That means both General and Stanley could
>do the same with their older and far better designs.
Sure they could, but why would they want to? If they can, through
their current distribution channels, sell a million of an item with a
$1 margin, why would they want to divert effort to a different
distribution channel to sell 1,000 items, even with a $5 margin? If I
were running general or stanley, I also would stick to my knitting and
let LN and LV have that market.
I'm just glad there are specialty manufacturers and specialty
retailers that recognize the potential in this small market and serve
it.
> There is no reason
>to fight to justify anything else.
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.
Yeah... I think, with the way you've gone with that last set of text, you've
forgotten my point. It's the second paragraph set, my answer there.
Because of all the "other" kinds of business possibilities that exist now,
what I am yakking about wouldn't be a problem, anyone knows it. LN
is a smaller producer but they are distributing everywhere they possibly
can. It's a good example. That means both General and Stanley could
do the same with their older and far better designs. There is no reason
to fight to justify anything else.
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 15:07:58 -0800, "AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Understood! But "we" don't really want those in the mass-market any
>> more. <G>
>
>Who's the "we"? I sure do.
So do I. I've got a nice selection of antique, along with Veritas,
LN, and other excellent modern tools.
"We" is the general public. You and I, along with many here on the
'wreck, are "weird". If we weren't, the Woodcraft stores of the world
wouldn't be able to get the stuff fast enough!
>> That's what successful business do, sell what folks want
>> to buy.
>
>Seems they almost couldn't care less, nor do they pay attention.
I'm not trying to troll you or break your stones. The big stores
actually ARE paying attention. Lowes actually gives a whole bunch of
slack to the local manager as to stock what sells locally. If a local
manager thought a Two Cherries chisel set or Lie Nielsen (or Knight!)
planes would sell, he can carry them!
If there was a large mass-market for really good tools, they'd be in
the BORGs. Good tools ARE available, the size of the market limits
them to specialty retailers.
Hardware is the same game. I get really good hardware (quality
screws, hinges, knobs, etc...) and locksets locally from, get this, my
favorite PAINT store. <G> If they don't have it, I get it from mail
order sources, like Lee Valley, McFeeleys, etc... According to the
paint store owner, I and several others order enough of this stuff to
actually make it worthwhile for him to carry, but not much more.
Barry
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 03:55:27 -0800, "AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>I think it would be better for companies, that once they have a well made
>tool designed and in production, don't cease it and flip crap at the public
>for the sake of economy, just raise the damn price and keep it going.
Some folks do exactly that:
<http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=51868&cat=1,43072,43078&ap=1>
<http://www.garrettwade.com/shopping/product/detailmain.jsp?itemID=105910&itemType=PRODUCT&iMainCat=12395&iSubCat=12400&iProductID=105910>
Barry
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 04:28:30 -0800, "AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Those products are new design and production, the General 810 goes
>way back through several design changes over many years. In my post I am referring
>mostly to tool production in the US and it's concerns with economy, it's just a "sad
>route" to take. The Stanley Co. is no doubt one of the worst (best) examples of this,
>they could still be making 750 and 720 chisels in high alloy HCS at RC 60 and
>selling them for what they are worth, $30 to $40 each.
Understood! But "we" don't really want those in the mass-market any
more. <G>
Remember where the tools you're talking about are sold. Hardware
store Harry, Wal-Mart, or your typical home center aren't going to
bother to even stock a $40 chisel or $50 honing guide. If this wasn't
true, your local Ace or Home Depot's hand tool aisle would look a lot
more like Woodcraft's than what we see now. It's not like they
_can't_ get good stuff. Your typical Woodcraft style store would be
in every town, if that's what the purchasing public demanded.
The typical crappy Stanley or Buck Brothers, as well as the half-way
decent Marples Blue Chips are fine for what the average shopper needs.
The market has told this to the retailers.
Good hand tools have become a niche. If Lee Valley and Garrett Wade
were cleaning the mass-market's clock, I have no doubt that Stanley,
Irwin, or General _would_ sell the better stuff, or else the BORGs
would be beating a path to Rob Lee's office to make wholesale
agreements. That's what successful business do, sell what folks want
to buy.
Barry
> Understood! But "we" don't really want those in the mass-market any
> more. <G>
Who's the "we"? I sure do.
> Remember where the tools you're talking about are sold. Hardware
> store Harry, Wal-Mart, or your typical home center aren't going to
> bother to even stock a $40 chisel or $50 honing guide. If this wasn't
> true, your local Ace or Home Depot's hand tool aisle would look a lot
> more like Woodcraft's than what we see now. It's not like they
> _can't_ get good stuff. Your typical Woodcraft style store would be
> in every town, if that's what the purchasing public demanded.
It's sad, people flock to the borgs, and some nice hardware stores have
gone out of bidness because of it... there is plenty here though, but nothing
like a Woodcraft. But as far as production of more costly things like I
am yakkin about, there are still the woodworking businesses online and
specialist stores that will stock desireable items, such as Rockler and
Woodcraft and single store front retailers. General and Stanley could do
it no problem, as much as Lie-Nielson is distributing their tools.
> The typical crappy Stanley or Buck Brothers, as well as the half-way
> decent Marples Blue Chips are fine for what the average shopper needs.
> The market has told this to the retailers.
Yeah and retailers have the same economical ideas, why pay too much for
something that most likely will not sell fast enough.
> Good hand tools have become a niche. If Lee Valley and Garrett Wade
> were cleaning the mass-market's clock, I have no doubt that Stanley,
> Irwin, or General _would_ sell the better stuff, or else the BORGs
> would be beating a path to Rob Lee's office to make wholesale
> agreements. That's what successful business do, sell what folks want
> to buy.
Seems they almost couldn't care less, nor do they pay attention.
> Barry
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/