My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
*any* hose in fact?
If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
On Dec 26, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in article<[email protected]>):
> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
>
> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
>
> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
>
> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
> *any* hose in fact?
>
> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
The standard approach is to slope the airline so the water will run down to a
well-situated release valve at the bottom of a T with vertical stub.
The water won=B4t hurt PEX, which is used for water service.
If you intend to use the wire for a paint sprayer, a dryer is needed.
PEX probably won=B4t explode, unlike PVC pipe. Do not use PVC for compressed
air. But I=B4d ask the PEX manufacturer which kind of PEX is suitable for
compressed air, if any.
The traditional way to carry compressed air is iron pipe.
Joe Gwinn
On Feb 11, 2019, DerbyDad03 wrote
(in article<[email protected]>):
> On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 10:21:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> > On Dec 26, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> > (in article<[email protected]>):
> >
> > > My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang
> > > it
> > > in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use
> > > my
> > > portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
> > >
> > > I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
> > > workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the
> > > garage
> > > to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy
> > > access
> > > to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
> > >
> > > The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the
> > > PEX.
> > >
> > > Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
> > > really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
> > > *any* hose in fact?
> > >
> > > If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
> > > before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
> >
> > The standard approach is to slope the airline so the water will run down to
> > a
> > well-situated release valve at the bottom of a T with vertical stub.
> >
> > The water won=B4t hurt PEX, which is used for water service.
> >
> > If you intend to use the wire for a paint sprayer, a dryer is needed.
> >
> > PEX probably won=B4t explode, unlike PVC pipe. Do not use PVC for =
compressed
> > air. But I=B4d ask the PEX manufacturer which kind of PEX is suitable for
> > compressed air, if any.
> >
> > The traditional way to carry compressed air is iron pipe.
> >
> > Joe Gwinn
>
> You are a month plus behind the times. ;-)
OK. I lost the bead on who said what.
>
> The PEX is installed and works fine for my needs. There was never a concern
> about the
> water hurting the PEX; I have PEX for water in my house. In fact, the PEX I
> use for water
> is actually run at a higher pressure than the air hose, but still way below
> the PEX ratings.
>
> 20+ years with no water leaks so I'm not concerned about the PEX used for the
> air line.
This part is not on target. The problem with compressed air is that it stores
a lot of energy, unlike pressurized water (which is incompressible). With
water, if there is a crack, a little water leaks out, dropping the pressure
instantly. With compressed air, the energy stored within causes the crack to
grow explosively, tearing the pipe apart and spraying the area with shattered
plastic. (FYI, Boiler explosions are even worse - superheated liquid water
flashes into steam when the pressure is released.)
Anyway, I wanted to warn people away from using uncertified plastic pipe for
compressed air, which has led to fatal accidents.
Joe Gwinn
On Feb 12, 2019, Spalted Walt wrote
(in article<[email protected]>):
> Joseph Gwinn <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > The PEX is installed and works fine for my needs. There was never a concern
> > > about the
> > > water hurting the PEX; I have PEX for water in my house. In fact, the PEX I
> > > use for water
> > > is actually run at a higher pressure than the air hose, but still way below
> > > the PEX ratings.
> > >
> > > 20+ years with no water leaks so I'm not concerned about the PEX used for
> > > the air line.
> >
> > This part is not on target. The problem with compressed air is that it stores
> > a lot of energy, unlike pressurized water (which is incompressible). With
> > water, if there is a crack, a little water leaks out, dropping the pressure
> > instantly. With compressed air, the energy stored within causes the crack to
> > grow explosively, tearing the pipe apart and spraying the area with
> > shattered
> > plastic. (FYI, Boiler explosions are even worse - superheated liquid water
> > flashes into steam when the pressure is released.)
>
> Is this PVC pipe? <https://youtu.be/F3wZ3gaywug>
> ... asking for a friend.
That was funny. Could be PVC. Cannot say from here, but PVC is cheaper than
ABS. Lucky for them that it was carrying water.
That team does not seem to be up to the job of tapping a water main to add a
residential supply line. I hope nobody lets them work on gas lines.
Joe Gwinn
On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 11:02:25 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 18:19:31 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 12:25:06 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 08:24:31 -0800 (PST), [email protected]
> >> wrote:
> >>=20
> >> >I just bought a 100-foot air line from Harbor Freight and snaked that=
through the walls from the garage to the basement shop. I added a moistur=
e trap and a regulator at the basement end. The compressor runs at 125 psi=
and I can cut down the pressure in the shop to anything I need for pin nai=
lers, etc. This is really convenient and probably cost less and took less =
effort than any kind of plumbing. =20
> >> >That being said, a friend used ordinary CPVC pipe which is rated at 2=
00 psi.
> >>=20
> >> And he may luck out and move before it breaks, or he may luck out and
> >> there not be anybody near it when it breaks. You might find a couple
> >> of videos instructive:
> >>=20
> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DIVO4_hUvFsc>
> >
> >How instructive is a video that shows that they couldn't get the PVC to=
=20
> >shatter until they battered it numerous times with a weight of an unspec=
ified
> >amount from a height of 12' and then *froze* the frigging thing?
> >
> >For all we know, it would have shattered at 0 PSI after taking all that=
=20
> >abuse and then being frozen. Heck, for all we know, it would have shatte=
red=20
> >the *first time* at 0 PSI once it was frozen. Bad example.
>=20
> It may have shattered without pressure but it wouldn't have exploded,
> throwing shrapnel. No thanks.
> >
> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dw1x1UxbD7B0>
> >
> >How instructive is a video of some guy who says nothing more than "Don't
> >do it" without anything to back up his words other than some videos of P=
VC
> >bursting after being subjected to...oh, wait...we have absolutely no ide=
a=20
> >what it was subjected to. Bad example.
>=20
> No, not at all but you're welcome to experiment with your life.
Nothing I said indicated that I plan to use PVC for high pressure air or th=
at I=20
suggest anybody should.
There's a big difference between pointing out bad examples vs. disagreeing =
that=20
with the main concept. Just because those videos do a terrible job of expla=
ining=20
why you shouldn't use PVC with air doesn't mean that you should.=20
For example, if that second video had given any indication of what PSI caus=
ed the=20
failures they would be perfect. Since they don't, we have no idea if the te=
st resembled
real world conditions or were just done for effect.=20
In other words, they weren't very "instructive" other than to proof that yo=
u can indeed cause
PVC to shatter while under pressure. Freezing the pipe apparently helps too=
.
On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 8:50:59 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
> On 12/28/2018 2:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Friday, December 28, 2018 at 9:06:14 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
> >> On 12/27/2018 12:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> On Thursday, December 27, 2018 at 9:25:26 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
> >>>> On 12/26/2018 10:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>>> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
> >>>>> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
> >>>>> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
> >>>>> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
> >>>>> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
> >>>>> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
> >>>>> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
> >>>>> *any* hose in fact?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
> >>>>> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
> >>>>
> >>>> Isn't PEX used in water lines? Water is only an issue for your tools,
> >>>> which generally require a few drops of oil to keep running, and prevent
> >>>> rust. Painting obviously requires an oil and water free environment.
> >>>> Virtually everyone that paints and has a larger, non portable compressor
> >>>> has an oil/water separator in the line. They are cheap, so no reason
> >>>> at all not to get one. You need a pressure regulator anyway, so get one
> >>>> with a filter on it.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Did you actually think that I was concerned about the PEX getting wet? Wow!
> >>
> >> Well, that is what you asked:
> >>
> >> "Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture
> >> is really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose
> >> also? In *any* hose in fact?"
> >>
> >> If you weren't concerned, then you shouldn't have asked. How am I
> >> supposed to know how dumb you are?
> >
> > You've used the words "reading challenged", so I guess I'll have to explain
> > it to you.
> >
> > If you are going to quote what I said, make sure you quote enough to keep
> > the context.
>
> The truth is I quoted your ENTIRE message. Not my fault if you are
> reading and writing impaired.
And here we have another instance of bending the truth is instead of admitting
your error.
Sure, you quoted my entire message, but then you quoted a single paragraph
and responded as if those were the only words I wrote. That is the essence
of removing all context.
"Quoting out of context (sometimes referred to as contextomy or quote mining)
is an informal fallacy and a type of false attribution in which a passage is
removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended
meaning."
>
> > I said "I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines
> > in home workshops"
>
> I know what you said, I quoted your entire message.
See "quote mining" above.
>
> > Man, you aren't just an asshole, you're also an idiot. Is that specific
> > enough for you?
>
> I believe that is just another one of your rhetorical questions, so I
> won't be wasting time answering.
These are not rhetorical questions:
Don't you find it telling that you are the only one that got the impression
that I was concerned about PEX getting wet? (Wow!) What does that say about
your level of reading comprehension?
>
> > Be gone 'cuz I'm done with your stupidity.
>
> I won't be going soon so you'll need to figure out how take on that
> responsibility yourself.
>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JohGniYph-c
On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 3:38:24 PM UTC-6, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 18:19:31 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 12:25:06 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 08:24:31 -0800 (PST), [email protected]
> >> wrote:
> >>=20
> >> >I just bought a 100-foot air line from Harbor Freight and snaked that=
through the walls from the garage to the basement shop. I added a moistur=
e trap and a regulator at the basement end. The compressor runs at 125 psi=
and I can cut down the pressure in the shop to anything I need for pin nai=
lers, etc. This is really convenient and probably cost less and took less =
effort than any kind of plumbing. =20
> >> >That being said, a friend used ordinary CPVC pipe which is rated at 2=
00 psi.
> >>=20
> >> And he may luck out and move before it breaks, or he may luck out and
> >> there not be anybody near it when it breaks. You might find a couple
> >> of videos instructive:
> >>=20
> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DIVO4_hUvFsc>
> >
> >How instructive is a video that shows that they couldn't get the PVC to=
=20
> >shatter until they battered it numerous times with a weight of an unspec=
ified
> >amount from a height of 12' and then *froze* the frigging thing?
> >
> >For all we know, it would have shattered at 0 PSI after taking all that=
=20
> >abuse and then being frozen. Heck, for all we know, it would have shatte=
red=20
> >the *first time* at 0 PSI once it was frozen. Bad example.
> >
> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dw1x1UxbD7B0>
> >
> >How instructive is a video of some guy who says nothing more than "Don't
> >do it" without anything to back up his words other than some videos of P=
VC
> >bursting after being subjected to...oh, wait...we have absolutely no ide=
a=20
> >what it was subjected to. Bad example.
>=20
>=20
> Oregon OSHA states=20
>=20
> Plastic pipe used for compressed air service must be designed for such
> service by the
> manufacturer. Examples of such pipe include high-density polyethylene
> (HDPE) and
> Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene (ABS). Compressed air piping systems
> that use plastic
> pipe must also be =E2=80=9Cproject specific=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 i.e., suit=
ed for a particular
> application or project =E2=80=93
> and installed by a competent person.
> Polyvinyl chloride (PVC) pipe must not be used in
> compressed air systems unless it is buried or encased.
> PVC pipes are unsafe when
> they=E2=80=99re used for compressed
> air service because they can
> shatter or explode under
> pressure or from an external
> force. Sunlight (the UV
> component) can also reduce
> the impact resistance of PVC
> pipe.
I tend to think of ABS and PVC pipe as being the same. My usage of either =
pipe is with plumbing. Hard to believe ABS is compressed air compliant but=
PVC is not. Seems to me both would not be compliant.
On Wednesday, December 26, 2018 at 12:31:32 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 12/26/18 9:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
> > in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
> > portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
> >
> > I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
> > workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
> > to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
> > to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
> >
> > The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
> >
> > Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
> > really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
> > *any* hose in fact?
> >
> > If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
> > before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
> >
>
> Have you thought of putting in an in-line moisture filter/trap?
>
I thought about, but I'm trying figure out if one is really needed.
People don't use a moisture trap when they haul their portable compressors
to job sites and use the e.g. 20' black hose that came with compressor, do
they? When is a moisture trap needed?
If needed, what price-point would I be looking at for a 150 PSI compressor?
I'm not trying to build an industrial strength system, just something for a
small shop. Occasional nail gun use, nozzles for clean up, tire fills, etc.
I drain the large tank in my wood shop, regularly, and especially when spra=
ying finishes.
I've never had a moisture issue with my smaller portable tanks (upholstery =
shop), I have 2, nor in the hoses. As to your nail/staple guns, oil them r=
egularly.... that should be sufficient to prevent any moisture issues with =
them. I've had one small tank for about 5 yrs and the other about 2 yrs. =
There are no moisture traps on the small tanks, as there is on the large w=
ood shop tank.
I've occasionally used a small tank for spraying a finish, with no moisture=
issues, yet. *Sidenote: I suspect the regulators on the Harbor Freight sm=
all compressors are not accurate, re, spraying requiring a certain pressure=
(about 40 psi). I regulate to about 50 psi for my best results with my sp=
ray equipment on these small tanks. Your results may vary.
I wasn't aware the type of moisture trap has a psi rating or requirement. =
It's the tool rating (maximum) that's important, as for as I know.
Sonny
On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 18:19:31 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 12:25:06 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 08:24:31 -0800 (PST), [email protected]
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I just bought a 100-foot air line from Harbor Freight and snaked that through the walls from the garage to the basement shop. I added a moisture trap and a regulator at the basement end. The compressor runs at 125 psi and I can cut down the pressure in the shop to anything I need for pin nailers, etc. This is really convenient and probably cost less and took less effort than any kind of plumbing.
>> >That being said, a friend used ordinary CPVC pipe which is rated at 200 psi.
>>
>> And he may luck out and move before it breaks, or he may luck out and
>> there not be anybody near it when it breaks. You might find a couple
>> of videos instructive:
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVO4_hUvFsc>
>
>How instructive is a video that shows that they couldn't get the PVC to
>shatter until they battered it numerous times with a weight of an unspecified
>amount from a height of 12' and then *froze* the frigging thing?
>
>For all we know, it would have shattered at 0 PSI after taking all that
>abuse and then being frozen. Heck, for all we know, it would have shattered
>the *first time* at 0 PSI once it was frozen. Bad example.
>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1x1UxbD7B0>
>
>How instructive is a video of some guy who says nothing more than "Don't
>do it" without anything to back up his words other than some videos of PVC
>bursting after being subjected to...oh, wait...we have absolutely no idea
>what it was subjected to. Bad example.
Oregon OSHA states
Plastic pipe used for compressed air service must be designed for such
service by the
manufacturer. Examples of such pipe include high-density polyethylene
(HDPE) and
Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene (ABS). Compressed air piping systems
that use plastic
pipe must also be project specific i.e., suited for a particular
application or project
and installed by a competent person.
Polyvinyl chloride (PVC) pipe must not be used in
compressed air systems unless it is buried or encased.
PVC pipes are unsafe when
theyre used for compressed
air service because they can
shatter or explode under
pressure or from an external
force. Sunlight (the UV
component) can also reduce
the impact resistance of PVC
pipe.
I just bought a 100-foot air line from Harbor Freight and snaked that throu=
gh the walls from the garage to the basement shop. I added a moisture trap=
and a regulator at the basement end. The compressor runs at 125 psi and I=
can cut down the pressure in the shop to anything I need for pin nailers, =
etc. This is really convenient and probably cost less and took less effort=
than any kind of plumbing. =20
That being said, a friend used ordinary CPVC pipe which is rated at 200 psi=
.
On Tuesday, February 12, 2019 at 9:01:56 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 19:57:06 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 10:10:33 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrot=
e:
> >> On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 03:59:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>=20
> >> >On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 11:02:25 PM UTC-5, [email protected] w=
rote:
> >> >> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 18:19:31 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> >> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >>=20
> >> >> >On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 12:25:06 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote=
:
> >> >> >> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 08:24:31 -0800 (PST), bennygreensociety@gmai=
l.com
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> >I just bought a 100-foot air line from Harbor Freight and snake=
d that through the walls from the garage to the basement shop. I added a m=
oisture trap and a regulator at the basement end. The compressor runs at 1=
25 psi and I can cut down the pressure in the shop to anything I need for p=
in nailers, etc. This is really convenient and probably cost less and took=
less effort than any kind of plumbing. =20
> >> >> >> >That being said, a friend used ordinary CPVC pipe which is rate=
d at 200 psi.
> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> And he may luck out and move before it breaks, or he may luck ou=
t and
> >> >> >> there not be anybody near it when it breaks. You might find a c=
ouple
> >> >> >> of videos instructive:
> >> >> >>=20
> >> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DIVO4_hUvFsc>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >How instructive is a video that shows that they couldn't get the P=
VC to=20
> >> >> >shatter until they battered it numerous times with a weight of an =
unspecified
> >> >> >amount from a height of 12' and then *froze* the frigging thing?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >For all we know, it would have shattered at 0 PSI after taking all=
that=20
> >> >> >abuse and then being frozen. Heck, for all we know, it would have =
shattered=20
> >> >> >the *first time* at 0 PSI once it was frozen. Bad example.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> It may have shattered without pressure but it wouldn't have explode=
d,
> >> >> throwing shrapnel. No thanks.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dw1x1UxbD7B0>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >How instructive is a video of some guy who says nothing more than =
"Don't
> >> >> >do it" without anything to back up his words other than some video=
s of PVC
> >> >> >bursting after being subjected to...oh, wait...we have absolutely =
no idea=20
> >> >> >what it was subjected to. Bad example.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> No, not at all but you're welcome to experiment with your life.
> >> >
> >> >Nothing I said indicated that I plan to use PVC for high pressure air=
or that I=20
> >> >suggest anybody should.
> >>=20
> >> That *was* the subject.
> >>=20
> >> >There's a big difference between pointing out bad examples vs. disagr=
eeing that=20
> >> >with the main concept. Just because those videos do a terrible job of=
explaining=20
> >> >why you shouldn't use PVC with air doesn't mean that you should.=20
> >> >
> >> >For example, if that second video had given any indication of what PS=
I caused the=20
> >> >failures they would be perfect. Since they don't, we have no idea if =
the test resembled
> >> >real world conditions or were just done for effect.=20
> >> >
> >> >In other words, they weren't very "instructive" other than to proof t=
hat you can indeed cause
> >> >PVC to shatter while under pressure. Freezing the pipe apparently hel=
ps too.
> >>=20
> >> Except that I don't want to be anywhere around it when it does. That's
> >> good enough for me. You welcome to risk your life foolishly.
> >
> >What is it that prevents you from understanding what I am saying?
> =20
> Your illiteracy.
Ah, you've been talking to the reflection in your monitor again. Now it mak=
es sense.
On Wed, 26 Dec 2018 15:58:33 -0600, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 12/26/2018 2:56 PM, Leon wrote:
>...
>
>>
>> With that said, is PEX going to be adequate for high pressure air?
>
>See ASTM F877 for PEX tubing.
>
>Most box store PEX tubing will be rated 160 psi at 73°F but drops to 100
>psi @ 180°F.
>
>It's a little close on rating in my book at 150, but more than likely
>there's some safety factor in play but I don't have any specifics in
>that regards.
I believe that those ratings are working pressure, not burst pressure,
but I haven't sprung the 50 bucks or so for F877 so I may be mistaken.
On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 11:02:25 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 18:19:31 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03 wrote:
...snip...
> >
> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1x1UxbD7B0>
> >
> >How instructive is a video of some guy who says nothing more than "Don't
> >do it" without anything to back up his words other than some videos of PVC
> >bursting after being subjected to...oh, wait...we have absolutely no idea
> >what it was subjected to. Bad example.
>
> No, not at all but you're welcome to experiment with your life.
Here you go...
How about I post this video with the warning "Never, ever, ever fill
your tires at a gas station!". I'll make sure I label it as "instructive".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeKA0eImhWQ
I'm pretty sure that you, being the intelligent gent that you are, would
be one of the first to point out that we know very little about the root
cause of that explosion. Our *experience* tells us that the situation is
out of the ordinary, therefore we wouldn't consider the video to be
"instructive" as it relates to the "Never, ever, ever" warning given.
Regarding the PVC video linked to above, we don't know if they tested that
PVC with 60 PSI or 600 PSI. To be considered "instructive" (and that *word*
is the only thing that I'm talking about) the video needs to tell us
something about the test conditions.
To be clear, I am *not* recommending or even suggesting that PVC be used
for air under any conditions. My only point is whether or not those videos
can be considered "instructive" in the context used.
On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:38:03 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>Ah, got'cha. Leave it to PC to add a drain but not one that works like
>it should. It would probably cost and extra dollar or so, during
>manufacture, to add a small tube to the inside of the drain valve that
>reaches down to the bottom of the tank.
>
Likely not PC but the chinese sweat-shop that builds the darn things.
PC just puts their labels on them, and they are too cheap to either do
proper quality control or to buy a slightly higher priced unit.
On Thursday, December 27, 2018 at 9:25:26 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
> On 12/26/2018 10:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
> > in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
> > portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
> >
> > I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
> > workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
> > to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
> > to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
> >
> > The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
> >
> > Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
> > really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
> > *any* hose in fact?
> >
> > If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
> > before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
>
> Isn't PEX used in water lines? Water is only an issue for your tools,
> which generally require a few drops of oil to keep running, and prevent
> rust. Painting obviously requires an oil and water free environment.
> Virtually everyone that paints and has a larger, non portable compressor
> has an oil/water separator in the line. They are cheap, so no reason
> at all not to get one. You need a pressure regulator anyway, so get one
> with a filter on it.
>
Did you actually think that I was concerned about the PEX getting wet? Wow!
Of course I was concerned about the tools. I specifically mentioned a "tool"
as the issue of concern.
On Fri, 28 Dec 2018 08:45:41 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 12/27/2018 11:01 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:25:21 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Isn't PEX used in water lines? Water is only an issue for your tools,
>>> which generally require a few drops of oil to keep running, and prevent
>>> rust. Painting obviously requires an oil and water free environment.
>>> Virtually everyone that paints and has a larger, non portable compressor
>>> has an oil/water separator in the line. They are cheap, so no reason
>>> at all not to get one. You need a pressure regulator anyway, so get one
>>> with a filter on it.
>>
>> ???
>>
>> PEX is flexible plastic pipe. It is not used "in" lines, it _is_ the
>> line.
>
>Really? DUH! I guess I should have said PEX is used "as","for" or "in
>place" of water lines_. I should know better when writing to the
>reading challenged. My obvious point was that water shouldn't bother a
>product designed as a water transport item.
You seemed to believe that PEX was some sort of additive. In any
case, <plonk>.
>I also noted to get a water separator/regulator. I should have added if
>you live under water, like in Texas, you might look into an automatic
>moisture drain valve.
>
>OH, by "in Texas" I meant on top of the ground, not actually in Texas
>ground...
On Thursday, December 27, 2018 at 10:38:17 AM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 12/26/2018 5:11 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 26, 2018 at 3:56:49 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> >> On 12/26/2018 2:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, December 26, 2018 at 12:31:32 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> >>>> On 12/26/18 9:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>>> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
> >>>>> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
> >>>>> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
> >>>>> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
> >>>>> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
> >>>>> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
> >>>>> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
> >>>>> *any* hose in fact?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
> >>>>> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Have you thought of putting in an in-line moisture filter/trap?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> I thought about, but I'm trying figure out if one is really needed.
> >>>
> >>> People don't use a moisture trap when they haul their portable compressors
> >>> to job sites and use the e.g. 20' black hose that came with compressor, do
> >>> they? When is a moisture trap needed?
> >>>
> >>> If needed, what price-point would I be looking at for a 150 PSI compressor?
> >>> I'm not trying to build an industrial strength system, just something for a
> >>> small shop. Occasional nail gun use, nozzles for clean up, tire fills, etc.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> A moisture trap is needed when moisture sprays out the end of the house
> >> into your tool. All of the moisture is from the moist/humid air outside
> >> of your compressor being sucked in, heated, and going into a cool tank.
> >> The moisture from the air will condense inside the compressor. If you
> >> run the compressor enough to begin heating up the compressed air in the
> >> tank you will begin to see the moisture being blown out of the end of
> >> the hose.
> >>
> >> Moisture separators are CHEAP, just add one near the compressor but
> >> before you airline.
> >>
> >> OR leave the compressor drain line open so that it constantly leaks a
> >> little bit, enough to keep up with the condensation that forms inside
> >> the tank.
> >
> > That might work if the drain was on the bottom of the compressor. That is
> > not the case with the very common Porter Cable 6 gallon pancake model. Not
> > only is the drain located up the curved side of the tank a few inches, they
> > neglected to center it between 2 of the 3 legs. You have to tilt the unit
> > up onto one leg and then balance it at a specific angle to get it to drain.
>
> Ah, got'cha. Leave it to PC to add a drain but not one that works like
> it should. It would probably cost and extra dollar or so, during
> manufacture, to add a small tube to the inside of the drain valve that
> reaches down to the bottom of the tank.
>
I've gotta ask you to explain that one to me.
This isn't the PC compressor I'm talking about, but the location of the drain
is the same, i.e. up the side a few inches.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41NH6dLMTYL._SL500_AC_SS350_.jpg
How would adding a tube from the drain valve to the bottom of tank help?
It's not like there's any suction at the valve to draw the water up the tube. The unit has to be tilted to drain it. Once the unit is tilted to drain, all
the water will move to the then lowest point and the tube would actually
*block* the drain.
Am I missing something with your suggested tube placement.
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:42:04 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Feb 12, 2019, Spalted Walt wrote
>(in article<[email protected]>):
>
>> Joseph Gwinn <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > > The PEX is installed and works fine for my needs. There was never a concern
>> > > about the
>> > > water hurting the PEX; I have PEX for water in my house. In fact, the PEX I
>> > > use for water
>> > > is actually run at a higher pressure than the air hose, but still way below
>> > > the PEX ratings.
>> > >
>> > > 20+ years with no water leaks so I'm not concerned about the PEX used for
>> > > the air line.
>> >
>> > This part is not on target. The problem with compressed air is that it stores
>> > a lot of energy, unlike pressurized water (which is incompressible). With
>> > water, if there is a crack, a little water leaks out, dropping the pressure
>> > instantly. With compressed air, the energy stored within causes the crack to
>> > grow explosively, tearing the pipe apart and spraying the area with
>> > shattered
>> > plastic. (FYI, Boiler explosions are even worse - superheated liquid water
>> > flashes into steam when the pressure is released.)
>>
>> Is this PVC pipe? <https://youtu.be/F3wZ3gaywug>
>> ... asking for a friend.
>
>That was funny. Could be PVC. Cannot say from here, but PVC is cheaper than
>ABS. Lucky for them that it was carrying water.
>
>That team does not seem to be up to the job of tapping a water main to add a
>residential supply line. I hope nobody lets them work on gas lines.
At least not anwhere where anybody other than them is likely to get
blown up. Of course some other poor bastards will then have to clean
up the mess.
On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 12:25:06 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 08:24:31 -0800 (PST), [email protected]
> wrote:
>=20
> >I just bought a 100-foot air line from Harbor Freight and snaked that th=
rough the walls from the garage to the basement shop. I added a moisture t=
rap and a regulator at the basement end. The compressor runs at 125 psi an=
d I can cut down the pressure in the shop to anything I need for pin nailer=
s, etc. This is really convenient and probably cost less and took less eff=
ort than any kind of plumbing. =20
> >That being said, a friend used ordinary CPVC pipe which is rated at 200 =
psi.
>=20
> And he may luck out and move before it breaks, or he may luck out and
> there not be anybody near it when it breaks. You might find a couple
> of videos instructive:
>=20
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DIVO4_hUvFsc>
How instructive is a video that shows that they couldn't get the PVC to=20
shatter until they battered it numerous times with a weight of an unspecifi=
ed
amount from a height of 12' and then *froze* the frigging thing?
For all we know, it would have shattered at 0 PSI after taking all that=20
abuse and then being frozen. Heck, for all we know, it would have shattered=
=20
the *first time* at 0 PSI once it was frozen. Bad example.
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dw1x1UxbD7B0>
How instructive is a video of some guy who says nothing more than "Don't
do it" without anything to back up his words other than some videos of PVC
bursting after being subjected to...oh, wait...we have absolutely no idea=
=20
what it was subjected to. Bad example.
On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 19:57:06 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 10:10:33 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 03:59:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 11:02:25 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 18:19:31 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 12:25:06 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>> >> >> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 08:24:31 -0800 (PST), [email protected]
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >I just bought a 100-foot air line from Harbor Freight and snaked that through the walls from the garage to the basement shop. I added a moisture trap and a regulator at the basement end. The compressor runs at 125 psi and I can cut down the pressure in the shop to anything I need for pin nailers, etc. This is really convenient and probably cost less and took less effort than any kind of plumbing.
>> >> >> >That being said, a friend used ordinary CPVC pipe which is rated at 200 psi.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And he may luck out and move before it breaks, or he may luck out and
>> >> >> there not be anybody near it when it breaks. You might find a couple
>> >> >> of videos instructive:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVO4_hUvFsc>
>> >> >
>> >> >How instructive is a video that shows that they couldn't get the PVC to
>> >> >shatter until they battered it numerous times with a weight of an unspecified
>> >> >amount from a height of 12' and then *froze* the frigging thing?
>> >> >
>> >> >For all we know, it would have shattered at 0 PSI after taking all that
>> >> >abuse and then being frozen. Heck, for all we know, it would have shattered
>> >> >the *first time* at 0 PSI once it was frozen. Bad example.
>> >>
>> >> It may have shattered without pressure but it wouldn't have exploded,
>> >> throwing shrapnel. No thanks.
>> >> >
>> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1x1UxbD7B0>
>> >> >
>> >> >How instructive is a video of some guy who says nothing more than "Don't
>> >> >do it" without anything to back up his words other than some videos of PVC
>> >> >bursting after being subjected to...oh, wait...we have absolutely no idea
>> >> >what it was subjected to. Bad example.
>> >>
>> >> No, not at all but you're welcome to experiment with your life.
>> >
>> >Nothing I said indicated that I plan to use PVC for high pressure air or that I
>> >suggest anybody should.
>>
>> That *was* the subject.
>>
>> >There's a big difference between pointing out bad examples vs. disagreeing that
>> >with the main concept. Just because those videos do a terrible job of explaining
>> >why you shouldn't use PVC with air doesn't mean that you should.
>> >
>> >For example, if that second video had given any indication of what PSI caused the
>> >failures they would be perfect. Since they don't, we have no idea if the test resembled
>> >real world conditions or were just done for effect.
>> >
>> >In other words, they weren't very "instructive" other than to proof that you can indeed cause
>> >PVC to shatter while under pressure. Freezing the pipe apparently helps too.
>>
>> Except that I don't want to be anywhere around it when it does. That's
>> good enough for me. You welcome to risk your life foolishly.
>
>What is it that prevents you from understanding what I am saying?
Your illiteracy.
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 14:08:41 GMT, [email protected] (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
>[email protected] writes:
>>On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 03:59:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>In other words, they weren't very "instructive" other than to proof that you can indeed cause
>>>PVC to shatter while under pressure. Freezing the pipe apparently helps too.
>>
>>Except that I don't want to be anywhere around it when it does. That's
>>good enough for me. You welcome to risk your life foolishly.
>
>As with everything, the details matter. PVC pipe in a pipe chase or
>protected by an enclosure is perfectly fine for compressed air so long
>as the PSI limitations of the pipe are honored.
>
>PVC pipe in a location where it is subject to abuse, bad idea.
You take all the unnecessary risk you want. I'll do otherwise.
On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:45:26 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Wouldn't shrapnel be a concern? "Weakest link" and all that, if you know what
>> I mean.
>>
>Yes I would fear that or seals may just fail and it would leak
>substantially. You would certainly want one rated for the pressure you
>would be using.
Another important consideration is to ANCHOR whatever you are using,
particularly if it is flexible.
I'll never forget the time the fitting on an air tool broke off and 50
feet of very flexible hose went flying around the shop with a hard
heavy air connector on the end. By the time someone figured out what
had happened and which hose it was, and got it disconnected, it had
inflicted damage to several bodies and a couple of cars.
Attempting to catch it was a futile excercise at best and resulted in
a large part of the "bodily injury".
I have to get around to hardlining my home garage so I can keep my
airline length to a sensible and safe length. I've got the type K
copper and fittings and brackets sitting waiting for me to get my ass
in gear and get it done -- -
On Wednesday, December 26, 2018 at 4:11:19 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 12/26/2018 2:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 26, 2018 at 12:31:32 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> >> On 12/26/18 9:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
> >>> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
> >>> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
> >>>
> >>> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
> >>> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
> >>> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
> >>> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
> >>>
> >>> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
> >>>
> >>> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
> >>> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
> >>> *any* hose in fact?
> >>>
> >>> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
> >>> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Have you thought of putting in an in-line moisture filter/trap?
> >>
> >
> > I thought about, but I'm trying figure out if one is really needed.
> >
> > People don't use a moisture trap when they haul their portable compressors
> > to job sites and use the e.g. 20' black hose that came with compressor, do
> > they? When is a moisture trap needed?
> >
> > If needed, what price-point would I be looking at for a 150 PSI compressor?
> > I'm not trying to build an industrial strength system, just something for a
> > small shop. Occasional nail gun use, nozzles for clean up, tire fills, etc.
> >
>
>
> Just to add a little more, the more air you move through the compressor
> in a relative short amount of time will determine if you will have a
> moisture issue.
>
> If you are using a nail gun occasionally you should have no problem
> Nail guns are high pressure and very low volume users. Your compressor
> will not be running constantly.
>
> On the other hand, filling a flat automobile tire or blowing your shop
> out for clean up is a very high volume operation and will promote
> moisture issues more quickly.
>
> The longer it takes for you to use enough air to trigger a recharge of
> pressure the better. The hotter the compressor runs the more moisture
> will be extracted from the air.
>
> If is is raining outside, when running the compressor, or if you live in
> a humid environment you will more likely have to deal with moisture.
>
> just put one of these on your compressor and be done with the wonderment
> of it all.
>
> $5.99
>
> https://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?dir=asc&order=EAScore%2Cf%2CEAFeatured+Weight%2Cf%2CSale+Rank%2Cf&q=compressor+water+seperator
Thanks for the info, but...
That separator is rated with a working pressure of 90 psi. While I don't
usually run at anything more than that, my regulator goes up to the max of
the compressor's range (150 psi) which makes running it at the max possible.
Wouldn't shrapnel be a concern? "Weakest link" and all that, if you know what
I mean.
On Tuesday, January 22, 2019 at 10:27:31 PM UTC-5, Martin Eastburn wrote:
> Water lines is right - and that is 70psi max. =20
Water lines often have pressures that are higher than 70 psi. *Fixtures*=20
might not like sustained pressure that are higher than 70, but both copper
and PEX can handle much, much higher than that.
I have copper and PEX lines in my house that are at street pressure, which
is usually around 90-95 psi. They are for the front and back hose bibs. The=
=20
copper to the front hose bib has been there for 60+ years. I tee'd in the=
=20
PEX for the back hose bib about 30 years ago.=20
SWMBO was very happy to have street pressure for both her front and back=20
gardens.
> The Plex has to be somewhat stronger than 70 to allow for temp changes.=
=20
"Somewhat" strong? Look up the specs for PEX. Heck, at 200=C2=B0F, it's sti=
ll
rated higher than 70 psi.=20
> Shops can get very hot if closed.
> If you open up and start using - you might have hoses being blown.
Not my shop. If my shop ever gets hot enough for PEX not to handle=20
90 psi air, please call 911 'cuz the place must be on fire.
>=20
> Martin
>=20
> On 12/27/2018 8:25 AM, Jack wrote:
> > On 12/26/2018 10:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to=
=20
> >> hang it
> >> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also=
=20
> >> use my
> >> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
> >>
> >> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in=
=20
> >> home
> >> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the=
=20
> >> garage
> >> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy=
=20
> >> access
> >> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
> >>
> >> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in=20
> >> the PEX.
> >>
> >> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture=
is
> >> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose=20
> >> also? In
> >> *any* hose in fact?
> >>
> >> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun noz=
zle
> >> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
> >=20
> > Isn't PEX used in water lines?=C2=A0 Water is only an issue for your to=
ols,=20
> > which generally require a few drops of oil to keep running, and prevent=
=20
> > rust.=C2=A0 Painting obviously requires an oil and water free environme=
nt.=20
> > Virtually everyone that paints and has a larger, non portable compresso=
r=20
> > =C2=A0has an oil/water separator in the line.=C2=A0 They are cheap, so=
no reason=20
> > at all not to get one. You need a pressure regulator anyway, so get one=
=20
> > with a filter on it.
> >
On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 10:21:22 AM UTC-5, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> On Dec 26, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> (in article<[email protected]>):
>=20
> > My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to ha=
ng it
> > in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also u=
se my
> > portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
> >
> > I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in h=
ome
> > workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the g=
arage
> > to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy a=
ccess
> > to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
> >
> > The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the=
PEX.
> >
> > Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture =
is
> > really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also?=
In
> > *any* hose in fact?
> >
> > If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozz=
le
> > before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
>=20
> The standard approach is to slope the airline so the water will run down =
to a=20
> well-situated release valve at the bottom of a T with vertical stub.
>=20
> The water won=C2=B4t hurt PEX, which is used for water service.
>=20
> If you intend to use the wire for a paint sprayer, a dryer is needed.
>=20
> PEX probably won=C2=B4t explode, unlike PVC pipe. Do not use PVC for comp=
ressed=20
> air. But I=C2=B4d ask the PEX manufacturer which kind of PEX is suitable =
for=20
> compressed air, if any.
>=20
> The traditional way to carry compressed air is iron pipe.
>=20
> Joe Gwinn
You are a month plus behind the times. ;-)
The PEX is installed and works fine for my needs. There was never a concern=
about the=20
water hurting the PEX; I have PEX for water in my house. In fact, the PEX I=
use for water
is actually run at a higher pressure than the air hose, but still way below=
the PEX ratings.
20+ years with no water leaks so I'm not concerned about the PEX used for t=
he air line.
Water lines is right - and that is 70psi max. The Plex has to be somewhat
stronger than 70 to allow for temp changes. Shops can get very hot if
closed.
If you open up and start using - you might have hoses being blown.
Martin
On 12/27/2018 8:25 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 12/26/2018 10:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to
>> hang it
>> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also
>> use my
>> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
>>
>> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in
>> home
>> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the
>> garage
>> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy
>> access
>> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
>>
>> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in
>> the PEX.
>>
>> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
>> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose
>> also? In
>> *any* hose in fact?
>>
>> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
>> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
>
> Isn't PEX used in water lines? Water is only an issue for your tools,
> which generally require a few drops of oil to keep running, and prevent
> rust. Painting obviously requires an oil and water free environment.
> Virtually everyone that paints and has a larger, non portable compressor
>  has an oil/water separator in the line. They are cheap, so no reason
> at all not to get one. You need a pressure regulator anyway, so get one
> with a filter on it.
>
[email protected] writes:
>On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 03:59:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>In other words, they weren't very "instructive" other than to proof that you can indeed cause
>>PVC to shatter while under pressure. Freezing the pipe apparently helps too.
>
>Except that I don't want to be anywhere around it when it does. That's
>good enough for me. You welcome to risk your life foolishly.
As with everything, the details matter. PVC pipe in a pipe chase or
protected by an enclosure is perfectly fine for compressed air so long
as the PSI limitations of the pipe are honored.
PVC pipe in a location where it is subject to abuse, bad idea.
On 12/26/2018 5:11 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 26, 2018 at 3:56:49 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 12/26/2018 2:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, December 26, 2018 at 12:31:32 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 12/26/18 9:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
>>>>> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
>>>>> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
>>>>> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
>>>>> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
>>>>> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
>>>>> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
>>>>> *any* hose in fact?
>>>>>
>>>>> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
>>>>> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have you thought of putting in an in-line moisture filter/trap?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I thought about, but I'm trying figure out if one is really needed.
>>>
>>> People don't use a moisture trap when they haul their portable compressors
>>> to job sites and use the e.g. 20' black hose that came with compressor, do
>>> they? When is a moisture trap needed?
>>>
>>> If needed, what price-point would I be looking at for a 150 PSI compressor?
>>> I'm not trying to build an industrial strength system, just something for a
>>> small shop. Occasional nail gun use, nozzles for clean up, tire fills, etc.
>>>
>>
>>
>> A moisture trap is needed when moisture sprays out the end of the house
>> into your tool. All of the moisture is from the moist/humid air outside
>> of your compressor being sucked in, heated, and going into a cool tank.
>> The moisture from the air will condense inside the compressor. If you
>> run the compressor enough to begin heating up the compressed air in the
>> tank you will begin to see the moisture being blown out of the end of
>> the hose.
>>
>> Moisture separators are CHEAP, just add one near the compressor but
>> before you airline.
>>
>> OR leave the compressor drain line open so that it constantly leaks a
>> little bit, enough to keep up with the condensation that forms inside
>> the tank.
>
> That might work if the drain was on the bottom of the compressor. That is
> not the case with the very common Porter Cable 6 gallon pancake model. Not
> only is the drain located up the curved side of the tank a few inches, they
> neglected to center it between 2 of the 3 legs. You have to tilt the unit
> up onto one leg and then balance it at a specific angle to get it to drain.
Ah, got'cha. Leave it to PC to add a drain but not one that works like
it should. It would probably cost and extra dollar or so, during
manufacture, to add a small tube to the inside of the drain valve that
reaches down to the bottom of the tank.
>
> It would take some type of angled stand to position the unit so that drain
> was always at the lowest point. Any idea of these things would mind running
> at an angle? Overall vibration could be dealt with via some secure strapping,
> but I wonder about the connection points of the compressor unit at the tank.
> Hanging/running at a weird angle may not have been designed into the unit.
If it is oilless it should not matter. If it uses oil as a lube there
could be complications if run at an angle. Most of the time
construction guys just have them sitting around on an uneven surface but
probably not at the angle necessary to keep thank drained.
>
>>
>> With that said, is PEX going to be adequate for high pressure air?
>
> Home Depot PEX is rated at 160 psi. That's higher than the max the compressor
> can put out. I don't think I'm concerned about that.
>
On 12/26/2018 2:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 26, 2018 at 12:31:32 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 12/26/18 9:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
>>> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
>>> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
>>>
>>> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
>>> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
>>> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
>>> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
>>>
>>> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
>>>
>>> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
>>> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
>>> *any* hose in fact?
>>>
>>> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
>>> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
>>>
>>
>> Have you thought of putting in an in-line moisture filter/trap?
>>
>
> I thought about, but I'm trying figure out if one is really needed.
>
> People don't use a moisture trap when they haul their portable compressors
> to job sites and use the e.g. 20' black hose that came with compressor, do
> they? When is a moisture trap needed?
>
> If needed, what price-point would I be looking at for a 150 PSI compressor?
> I'm not trying to build an industrial strength system, just something for a
> small shop. Occasional nail gun use, nozzles for clean up, tire fills, etc.
>
A moisture trap is needed when moisture sprays out the end of the house
into your tool. All of the moisture is from the moist/humid air outside
of your compressor being sucked in, heated, and going into a cool tank.
The moisture from the air will condense inside the compressor. If you
run the compressor enough to begin heating up the compressed air in the
tank you will begin to see the moisture being blown out of the end of
the hose.
Moisture separators are CHEAP, just add one near the compressor but
before you airline.
OR leave the compressor drain line open so that it constantly leaks a
little bit, enough to keep up with the condensation that forms inside
the tank.
With that said, is PEX going to be adequate for high pressure air?
On 12/26/2018 3:58 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 12/26/2018 2:56 PM, Leon wrote:
> ...
>
>>
>> With that said, is PEX going to be adequate for high pressure air?
>
> See ASTM F877 for PEX tubing.
>
> Most box store PEX tubing will be rated 160 psi at 73°F but drops to 100
> psi @ 180°F.
>
> It's a little close on rating in my book at 150, but more than likely
> there's some safety factor in play but I don't have any specifics in
> that regards.
>
> --
>
>
>
I know the stuff is pretty good, and can expand IIRC up to 10%. My
house pressurized plumbing is all PEX.
I was just wondering if PEX, besides having enough pressure resistance,
would pose any other danger like the PVC stories you hear about. It
being relatively pliable I would imagine it would simply fail but not
fly apart into pieces.
On 12/26/2018 5:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 26, 2018 at 4:11:19 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
>> On 12/26/2018 2:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, December 26, 2018 at 12:31:32 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 12/26/18 9:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
>>>>> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
>>>>> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
>>>>> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
>>>>> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
>>>>> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
>>>>> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
>>>>> *any* hose in fact?
>>>>>
>>>>> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
>>>>> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have you thought of putting in an in-line moisture filter/trap?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I thought about, but I'm trying figure out if one is really needed.
>>>
>>> People don't use a moisture trap when they haul their portable compressors
>>> to job sites and use the e.g. 20' black hose that came with compressor, do
>>> they? When is a moisture trap needed?
>>>
>>> If needed, what price-point would I be looking at for a 150 PSI compressor?
>>> I'm not trying to build an industrial strength system, just something for a
>>> small shop. Occasional nail gun use, nozzles for clean up, tire fills, etc.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Just to add a little more, the more air you move through the compressor
>> in a relative short amount of time will determine if you will have a
>> moisture issue.
>>
>> If you are using a nail gun occasionally you should have no problem
>> Nail guns are high pressure and very low volume users. Your compressor
>> will not be running constantly.
>>
>> On the other hand, filling a flat automobile tire or blowing your shop
>> out for clean up is a very high volume operation and will promote
>> moisture issues more quickly.
>>
>> The longer it takes for you to use enough air to trigger a recharge of
>> pressure the better. The hotter the compressor runs the more moisture
>> will be extracted from the air.
>>
>> If is is raining outside, when running the compressor, or if you live in
>> a humid environment you will more likely have to deal with moisture.
>>
>> just put one of these on your compressor and be done with the wonderment
>> of it all.
>>
>> $5.99
>>
>> https://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?dir=asc&order=EAScore%2Cf%2CEAFeatured+Weight%2Cf%2CSale+Rank%2Cf&q=compressor+water+seperator
>
> Thanks for the info, but...
>
> That separator is rated with a working pressure of 90 psi. While I don't
> usually run at anything more than that, my regulator goes up to the max of
> the compressor's range (150 psi) which makes running it at the max possible.
I was not really paying attention to the PSI, HF sells better ones and I
will assume they will handle 150 psi, maybe not. But the better ones
are still pretty inexpensive. And then you don't have to be concerned
about water getting into your tools.
I will say that I have a 20+ year old 20 gallon compressor with 50' of
rubber hose. And I live relatively near the gulf coast in Houston. In
the past when I blew out my garage and the compressor cycled on 5~6
times and ran longer than normal I would see water coming out the end of
the hose. I have a water separator bolted to the compressor and the
hose attaches to the separator.
>
> Wouldn't shrapnel be a concern? "Weakest link" and all that, if you know what
> I mean.
>
Yes I would fear that or seals may just fail and it would leak
substantially. You would certainly want one rated for the pressure you
would be using.
On 12/26/2018 2:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Wednesday, December 26, 2018 at 12:31:32 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 12/26/18 9:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
>>> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
>>> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
>>>
>>> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
>>> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
>>> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
>>> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
>>>
>>> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
>>>
>>> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
>>> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
>>> *any* hose in fact?
>>>
>>> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
>>> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
>>>
>>
>> Have you thought of putting in an in-line moisture filter/trap?
>>
>
> I thought about, but I'm trying figure out if one is really needed.
>
> People don't use a moisture trap when they haul their portable compressors
> to job sites and use the e.g. 20' black hose that came with compressor, do
> they? When is a moisture trap needed?
>
> If needed, what price-point would I be looking at for a 150 PSI compressor?
> I'm not trying to build an industrial strength system, just something for a
> small shop. Occasional nail gun use, nozzles for clean up, tire fills, etc.
>
Just to add a little more, the more air you move through the compressor
in a relative short amount of time will determine if you will have a
moisture issue.
If you are using a nail gun occasionally you should have no problem
Nail guns are high pressure and very low volume users. Your compressor
will not be running constantly.
On the other hand, filling a flat automobile tire or blowing your shop
out for clean up is a very high volume operation and will promote
moisture issues more quickly.
The longer it takes for you to use enough air to trigger a recharge of
pressure the better. The hotter the compressor runs the more moisture
will be extracted from the air.
If is is raining outside, when running the compressor, or if you live in
a humid environment you will more likely have to deal with moisture.
just put one of these on your compressor and be done with the wonderment
of it all.
$5.99
https://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?dir=asc&order=EAScore%2Cf%2CEAFeatured+Weight%2Cf%2CSale+Rank%2Cf&q=compressor+water+seperator
On 12/27/2018 7:45 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 20:36:42 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:38:03 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ah, got'cha. Leave it to PC to add a drain but not one that works like
>>> it should. It would probably cost and extra dollar or so, during
>>> manufacture, to add a small tube to the inside of the drain valve that
>>> reaches down to the bottom of the tank.
>>>
>> Likely not PC but the chinese sweat-shop that builds the darn things.
>> PC just puts their labels on them, and they are too cheap to either do
>> proper quality control or to buy a slightly higher priced unit.
>
> And too cheap to actually engineer a proper one for the Chinese
> re-education camps to make.
>
+1
On 12/28/2018 9:01 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 12/28/2018 9:30 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Fri, 28 Dec 2018 08:45:41 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/27/2018 11:01 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:25:21 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Isn't PEX used in water lines? Water is only an issue for your tools,
>>>>> which generally require a few drops of oil to keep running, and
>>>>> prevent
>>>>> rust. Painting obviously requires an oil and water free environment.
>>>>> Virtually everyone that paints and has a larger, non portable
>>>>> compressor
>>>>> has an oil/water separator in the line. They are cheap, so no
>>>>> reason
>>>>> at all not to get one. You need a pressure regulator anyway, so get
>>>>> one
>>>>> with a filter on it.
>>>>
>>>> ???
>>>>
>>>> PEX is flexible plastic pipe. It is not used "in" lines, it _is_ the
>>>> line.
>>>
>>> Really? DUH! I guess I should have said PEX is used "as","for" or "in
>>> place" of water lines_. I should know better when writing to the
>>> reading challenged. My obvious point was that water shouldn't bother a
>>> product designed as a water transport item.
>>
>> You seemed to believe that PEX was some sort of additive.
>
> Contextually, that's about as remote a belief one could get from my
> statement.
>
> In any case, <plonk>.
>
> Again?
>
> Keep this up an you'll be talking to yourself...
>
Lucky you, he plonked you before you wasted time arguing with him.
On 12/26/2018 8:31 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 26 Dec 2018 15:11:07 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 12/26/2018 2:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, December 26, 2018 at 12:31:32 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 12/26/18 9:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
>>>>> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
>>>>> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
>>>>> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
>>>>> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
>>>>> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
>>>>> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
>>>>> *any* hose in fact?
>>>>>
>>>>> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
>>>>> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have you thought of putting in an in-line moisture filter/trap?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I thought about, but I'm trying figure out if one is really needed.
>>>
>>> People don't use a moisture trap when they haul their portable compressors
>>> to job sites and use the e.g. 20' black hose that came with compressor, do
>>> they? When is a moisture trap needed?
>>>
>>> If needed, what price-point would I be looking at for a 150 PSI compressor?
>>> I'm not trying to build an industrial strength system, just something for a
>>> small shop. Occasional nail gun use, nozzles for clean up, tire fills, etc.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Just to add a little more, the more air you move through the compressor
>> in a relative short amount of time will determine if you will have a
>> moisture issue.
>>
>> If you are using a nail gun occasionally you should have no problem
>> Nail guns are high pressure and very low volume users. Your compressor
>> will not be running constantly.
>>
>> On the other hand, filling a flat automobile tire or blowing your shop
>> out for clean up is a very high volume operation and will promote
>> moisture issues more quickly.
>>
>> The longer it takes for you to use enough air to trigger a recharge of
>> pressure the better. The hotter the compressor runs the more moisture
>> will be extracted from the air.
>
> Not buying that science. ;-) The moisture is a constant given the
> total volume of air. It doesn't matter if it's used slowly or quickly,
> the moisture is the same. As the air in the tank expands it will cool
> the same amount[*], no matter what the temperature of the tank is and
> leave the water behind. The moisture that was pumped into the tank
> has to come out of the tank somehow.
Yeah I did not say that right. ;~) BUT I have found that the larger
and the less often the compressor runs the less condensed moisture you
find coming out the end of the hose. True the moisture comes out but
under ideal conditions it comes out of the drain valve at the bottom of
the compressor.
A hot compressor tank vaporizes the water inside and it condenses as it
comes out the hose. If the compressor stays relatively cool the water
tends to stay in the bottom of the tank.
>
> [*] Well, freezing may change things. ;-)
>
>> If is is raining outside, when running the compressor, or if you live in
>> a humid environment you will more likely have to deal with moisture.
>
> More water in = more water out
But again you hope the water goes out through the drain exit point.
>
>> just put one of these on your compressor and be done with the wonderment
>> of it all.
>>
>> $5.99
>>
>> https://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?dir=asc&order=EAScore%2Cf%2CEAFeatured+Weight%2Cf%2CSale+Rank%2Cf&q=compressor+water+seperator
>
> That works but it won't keep your tank from becoming a rocket. ;-)
>
;~)
On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:30:53 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 12/26/2018 3:58 PM, dpb wrote:
>> On 12/26/2018 2:56 PM, Leon wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>>
>>> With that said, is PEX going to be adequate for high pressure air?
>>
>> See ASTM F877 for PEX tubing.
>>
>> Most box store PEX tubing will be rated 160 psi at 73°F but drops to 100
>> psi @ 180°F.
>>
>> It's a little close on rating in my book at 150, but more than likely
>> there's some safety factor in play but I don't have any specifics in
>> that regards.
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>I know the stuff is pretty good, and can expand IIRC up to 10%. My
>house pressurized plumbing is all PEX.
>I was just wondering if PEX, besides having enough pressure resistance,
>would pose any other danger like the PVC stories you hear about. It
>being relatively pliable I would imagine it would simply fail but not
>fly apart into pieces.
I was going to say, CPVC is used for water too but definitely _NOT_
advised for air. Personally, I wouldn't use either.
On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 12:06:51 AM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Dec 2018 17:32:06 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>
> >
> >I've gotta ask you to explain that one to me.
> >
> >This isn't the PC compressor I'm talking about, but the location of the drain
> >is the same, i.e. up the side a few inches.
> >
> >https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41NH6dLMTYL._SL500_AC_SS350_.jpg
> >
> >How would adding a tube from the drain valve to the bottom of tank help?
> >
> >It's not like there's any suction at the valve to draw the water up the tube. The unit has to be tilted to drain it. Once the unit is tilted to drain, all
> >the water will move to the then lowest point and the tube would actually
> >*block* the drain.
> >
> >Am I missing something with your suggested tube placement.
>
>
> You ARE missing something. If a line from the inner side of the drain
> valve reaches to the bottom of the tank, when you open the drain air
> pressure acting on the water will force it out the drain valve.
>
> Mark the position of the drain valve. Temove it and solder a tube
> into the valve, bent so it will reach the bottom of the tank at the
> center of the tank, Feed the line into the hole then tighten the valve
> to it's original position to put the end of the tube at the bottom of
> the tank. VOILA!!! a drain that actually WORKS - for a few cents worth
> of materials and about half an hour's work (if you are slow)
Ok, thanks.
On Wednesday, December 26, 2018 at 3:56:49 PM UTC-5, Leon wrote:
> On 12/26/2018 2:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, December 26, 2018 at 12:31:32 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> >> On 12/26/18 9:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
> >>> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
> >>> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
> >>>
> >>> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
> >>> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
> >>> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
> >>> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
> >>>
> >>> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
> >>>
> >>> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
> >>> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
> >>> *any* hose in fact?
> >>>
> >>> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
> >>> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Have you thought of putting in an in-line moisture filter/trap?
> >>
> >
> > I thought about, but I'm trying figure out if one is really needed.
> >
> > People don't use a moisture trap when they haul their portable compressors
> > to job sites and use the e.g. 20' black hose that came with compressor, do
> > they? When is a moisture trap needed?
> >
> > If needed, what price-point would I be looking at for a 150 PSI compressor?
> > I'm not trying to build an industrial strength system, just something for a
> > small shop. Occasional nail gun use, nozzles for clean up, tire fills, etc.
> >
>
>
> A moisture trap is needed when moisture sprays out the end of the house
> into your tool. All of the moisture is from the moist/humid air outside
> of your compressor being sucked in, heated, and going into a cool tank.
> The moisture from the air will condense inside the compressor. If you
> run the compressor enough to begin heating up the compressed air in the
> tank you will begin to see the moisture being blown out of the end of
> the hose.
>
> Moisture separators are CHEAP, just add one near the compressor but
> before you airline.
>
> OR leave the compressor drain line open so that it constantly leaks a
> little bit, enough to keep up with the condensation that forms inside
> the tank.
That might work if the drain was on the bottom of the compressor. That is
not the case with the very common Porter Cable 6 gallon pancake model. Not
only is the drain located up the curved side of the tank a few inches, they
neglected to center it between 2 of the 3 legs. You have to tilt the unit
up onto one leg and then balance it at a specific angle to get it to drain.
It would take some type of angled stand to position the unit so that drain
was always at the lowest point. Any idea of these things would mind running
at an angle? Overall vibration could be dealt with via some secure strapping,
but I wonder about the connection points of the compressor unit at the tank.
Hanging/running at a weird angle may not have been designed into the unit.
>
> With that said, is PEX going to be adequate for high pressure air?
Home Depot PEX is rated at 160 psi. That's higher than the max the compressor
can put out. I don't think I'm concerned about that.
On Friday, December 28, 2018 at 9:06:14 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
> On 12/27/2018 12:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Thursday, December 27, 2018 at 9:25:26 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
> >> On 12/26/2018 10:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
> >>> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
> >>> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
> >>>
> >>> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
> >>> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
> >>> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
> >>> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
> >>>
> >>> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
> >>>
> >>> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
> >>> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
> >>> *any* hose in fact?
> >>>
> >>> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
> >>> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
> >>
> >> Isn't PEX used in water lines? Water is only an issue for your tools,
> >> which generally require a few drops of oil to keep running, and prevent
> >> rust. Painting obviously requires an oil and water free environment.
> >> Virtually everyone that paints and has a larger, non portable compressor
> >> has an oil/water separator in the line. They are cheap, so no reason
> >> at all not to get one. You need a pressure regulator anyway, so get one
> >> with a filter on it.
> >>
> >
> > Did you actually think that I was concerned about the PEX getting wet? Wow!
>
> Well, that is what you asked:
>
> "Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture
> is really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose
> also? In *any* hose in fact?"
>
> If you weren't concerned, then you shouldn't have asked. How am I
> supposed to know how dumb you are?
You've used the words "reading challenged", so I guess I'll have to explain
it to you.
If you are going to quote what I said, make sure you quote enough to keep
the context.
I said "I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines
in home workshops"
I also said "The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting
in the PEX."
I then addressed that downside by asking "If moisture is really an issue
in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In *any* hose in
fact?" It was a point of discussion, essentially a rhetorical question.
Here's the explanation for the reading challenged, such as you:
If a person is going to claim that moisture in PEX is a downside of using
it as an air line, then they should also be claiming that the retractable
hose, in fact *any* hose, has that same downside.
In simple terms, for simpletons, it ain't about anyone being concerned about
the PEX getting wet (wow!) It's about the *downside* of using PEX as an air
line as compared to any other type of hose. My point is that there is no
difference so why would anyone bring it up as a downside of PEX.
>
> > Of course I was concerned about the tools. I specifically mentioned a "tool"
> > as the issue of concern.
>
> So you think the _type_ of line will cause moisture in your tools?
> That's even dumber than I thought. I'll be more specific for you.
> Moisture is not an issue in PEX, not an issue in retractable hose, not
> an issue in any hose. It can be an issue with your tools, irrespective
> of what _type_ of line you use. Water is dealt with by using water
> separators and automatic moisture drains.
Man, you aren't just an asshole, you're also an idiot. Is that specific
enough for you?
Be gone 'cuz I'm done with your stupidity.
On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:25:21 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 12/26/2018 10:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
>> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
>> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
>>
>> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
>> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
>> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
>> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
>>
>> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
>>
>> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
>> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
>> *any* hose in fact?
>>
>> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
>> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
>
>Isn't PEX used in water lines? Water is only an issue for your tools,
>which generally require a few drops of oil to keep running, and prevent
>rust. Painting obviously requires an oil and water free environment.
>Virtually everyone that paints and has a larger, non portable compressor
> has an oil/water separator in the line. They are cheap, so no reason
>at all not to get one. You need a pressure regulator anyway, so get one
>with a filter on it.
???
PEX is flexible plastic pipe. It is not used "in" lines, it _is_ the
line.
"PEX AL PEX", per ASTM Standard F1281, is intended for use with air
and other gases. Check with the manufacturer of the tubing for the
pressure rating. I don't know of any PEX that is is rated for UV
resistance so be careful with exposure to sunlight or fluorescent
lights.
Note that PEX AL PEX uses different fittings from regular PEX. Most
of them are similar in design to the compression fittings sold for use
with copper, where there is a nut that is tightened down to secure a
compression ring.
It is also stiffer and is not usually a Home Depot item--there are
many sources online though.
Actual risk involved in using ordinary Home Depot PEX should be small,
the result of failure should be the same as failure of a hose, since
that's pretty much what it is. Just be sure to secure it in such a
manner that a long piece with a fitting on it can't flail around.
With regard to the water issue, with rigid pipe you can design the
system so that it slopes to a low point where you can put a drain and
periodically drain any water out.
PEX, being flexible, tends to sag a little bit between attachment
points so getting it to drain cleanly may be difficult--this is less
of a problem with PEX AL PEX as it is stiffer than regular PEX and if
you're careful you should be able to get it straight enough to drain.
On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 10:10:33 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 03:59:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 11:02:25 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrot=
e:
> >> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 18:19:31 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>=20
> >> >On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 12:25:06 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> >> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 08:24:31 -0800 (PST), [email protected]=
om
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>=20
> >> >> >I just bought a 100-foot air line from Harbor Freight and snaked t=
hat through the walls from the garage to the basement shop. I added a mois=
ture trap and a regulator at the basement end. The compressor runs at 125 =
psi and I can cut down the pressure in the shop to anything I need for pin =
nailers, etc. This is really convenient and probably cost less and took le=
ss effort than any kind of plumbing. =20
> >> >> >That being said, a friend used ordinary CPVC pipe which is rated a=
t 200 psi.
> >> >>=20
> >> >> And he may luck out and move before it breaks, or he may luck out a=
nd
> >> >> there not be anybody near it when it breaks. You might find a coup=
le
> >> >> of videos instructive:
> >> >>=20
> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DIVO4_hUvFsc>
> >> >
> >> >How instructive is a video that shows that they couldn't get the PVC =
to=20
> >> >shatter until they battered it numerous times with a weight of an uns=
pecified
> >> >amount from a height of 12' and then *froze* the frigging thing?
> >> >
> >> >For all we know, it would have shattered at 0 PSI after taking all th=
at=20
> >> >abuse and then being frozen. Heck, for all we know, it would have sha=
ttered=20
> >> >the *first time* at 0 PSI once it was frozen. Bad example.
> >>=20
> >> It may have shattered without pressure but it wouldn't have exploded,
> >> throwing shrapnel. No thanks.
> >> >
> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dw1x1UxbD7B0>
> >> >
> >> >How instructive is a video of some guy who says nothing more than "Do=
n't
> >> >do it" without anything to back up his words other than some videos o=
f PVC
> >> >bursting after being subjected to...oh, wait...we have absolutely no =
idea=20
> >> >what it was subjected to. Bad example.
> >>=20
> >> No, not at all but you're welcome to experiment with your life.
> >
> >Nothing I said indicated that I plan to use PVC for high pressure air or=
that I=20
> >suggest anybody should.
>=20
> That *was* the subject.
>=20
> >There's a big difference between pointing out bad examples vs. disagreei=
ng that=20
> >with the main concept. Just because those videos do a terrible job of ex=
plaining=20
> >why you shouldn't use PVC with air doesn't mean that you should.=20
> >
> >For example, if that second video had given any indication of what PSI c=
aused the=20
> >failures they would be perfect. Since they don't, we have no idea if the=
test resembled
> >real world conditions or were just done for effect.=20
> >
> >In other words, they weren't very "instructive" other than to proof that=
you can indeed cause
> >PVC to shatter while under pressure. Freezing the pipe apparently helps =
too.
>=20
> Except that I don't want to be anywhere around it when it does. That's
> good enough for me. You welcome to risk your life foolishly.
What is it that prevents you from understanding what I am saying?
On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 11:01:16 -0500, J. Clarke
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Actual risk involved in using ordinary Home Depot PEX should be small,
>the result of failure should be the same as failure of a hose, since
>that's pretty much what it is. Just be sure to secure it in such a
>manner that a long piece with a fitting on it can't flail around.
>
>With regard to the water issue, with rigid pipe you can design the
>system so that it slopes to a low point where you can put a drain and
>periodically drain any water out.
>
>PEX, being flexible, tends to sag a little bit between attachment
>points so getting it to drain cleanly may be difficult--this is less
>of a problem with PEX AL PEX as it is stiffer than regular PEX and if
>you're careful you should be able to get it straight enough to drain.
>
Also with hard line it is common practice to put a "drain leg" at
each connector point. The air hose points out from the wall, and a
stub leg hangs down, usually with a drain valve on it, while the air
pipe runs straight through. The legs catch moisture as it settles
into the pipe and tries to find a low point. The low point is then out
of the air stream and can be easily drained.
On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 09:42:04 -0500, Joseph Gwinn
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Feb 12, 2019, Spalted Walt wrote
>(in article<[email protected]>):
>
>> Joseph Gwinn <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > > The PEX is installed and works fine for my needs. There was never a concern
>> > > about the
>> > > water hurting the PEX; I have PEX for water in my house. In fact, the PEX I
>> > > use for water
>> > > is actually run at a higher pressure than the air hose, but still way below
>> > > the PEX ratings.
>> > >
>> > > 20+ years with no water leaks so I'm not concerned about the PEX used for
>> > > the air line.
>> >
>> > This part is not on target. The problem with compressed air is that it stores
>> > a lot of energy, unlike pressurized water (which is incompressible). With
>> > water, if there is a crack, a little water leaks out, dropping the pressure
>> > instantly. With compressed air, the energy stored within causes the crack to
>> > grow explosively, tearing the pipe apart and spraying the area with
>> > shattered
>> > plastic. (FYI, Boiler explosions are even worse - superheated liquid water
>> > flashes into steam when the pressure is released.)
>>
>> Is this PVC pipe? <https://youtu.be/F3wZ3gaywug>
>> ... asking for a friend.
>
>That was funny. Could be PVC. Cannot say from here, but PVC is cheaper than
>ABS. Lucky for them that it was carrying water.
>
>That team does not seem to be up to the job of tapping a water main to add a
>residential supply line. I hope nobody lets them work on gas lines.
>
>Joe Gwinn
What a bunch of "maroons" Using a 120 oe 240 volt drill in a wet
trench, for staters -and obviously NO IDEA what they were up against -
- -
On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 9:18:48 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 14:23:19 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >I tend to think of ABS and PVC pipe as being the same. My usage of either pipe is with plumbing. Hard to believe ABS is compressed air compliant but PVC is not. Seems to me both would not be compliant.
>
> The chemistries of ABS and PVC are rather different. Among other
> things ABS is sufficiently impact resistant than at one time it was
> used for motorcycle and racing helmets.
OK. I think of ABS as plumbing waste pipes. Black sewer pipe. And PVC as plumbing water pipes. The white/yellow/tan water lines. Pretty sure I have used both in plumbing. Both seem too hard and brittle for airlines.
On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 4:38:24 PM UTC-5, Clare Snyder wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 18:19:31 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 12:25:06 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> >> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 08:24:31 -0800 (PST), [email protected]
> >> wrote:
> >>=20
> >> >I just bought a 100-foot air line from Harbor Freight and snaked that=
through the walls from the garage to the basement shop. I added a moistur=
e trap and a regulator at the basement end. The compressor runs at 125 psi=
and I can cut down the pressure in the shop to anything I need for pin nai=
lers, etc. This is really convenient and probably cost less and took less =
effort than any kind of plumbing. =20
> >> >That being said, a friend used ordinary CPVC pipe which is rated at 2=
00 psi.
> >>=20
> >> And he may luck out and move before it breaks, or he may luck out and
> >> there not be anybody near it when it breaks. You might find a couple
> >> of videos instructive:
> >>=20
> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DIVO4_hUvFsc>
> >
> >How instructive is a video that shows that they couldn't get the PVC to=
=20
> >shatter until they battered it numerous times with a weight of an unspec=
ified
> >amount from a height of 12' and then *froze* the frigging thing?
> >
> >For all we know, it would have shattered at 0 PSI after taking all that=
=20
> >abuse and then being frozen. Heck, for all we know, it would have shatte=
red=20
> >the *first time* at 0 PSI once it was frozen. Bad example.
> >
> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dw1x1UxbD7B0>
> >
> >How instructive is a video of some guy who says nothing more than "Don't
> >do it" without anything to back up his words other than some videos of P=
VC
> >bursting after being subjected to...oh, wait...we have absolutely no ide=
a=20
> >what it was subjected to. Bad example.
>=20
>=20
> Oregon OSHA states=20
>=20
> Plastic pipe used for compressed air service must be designed for such
> service by the
> manufacturer. Examples of such pipe include high-density polyethylene
> (HDPE) and
> Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene (ABS). Compressed air piping systems
> that use plastic
> pipe must also be =E2=80=9Cproject specific=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 i.e., suit=
ed for a particular
> application or project =E2=80=93
> and installed by a competent person.
> Polyvinyl chloride (PVC) pipe must not be used in
> compressed air systems unless it is buried or encased.
> PVC pipes are unsafe when
> they=E2=80=99re used for compressed
> air service because they can
> shatter or explode under
> pressure or from an external
> force. Sunlight (the UV
> component) can also reduce
> the impact resistance of PVC
> pipe.
All true, and had *any* of that been included in the videos, then they coul=
d
have been considered "instructive".=20
You do understand that my only issue is with the use of the "instructive"=
=20
descriptor, right? Neither of those videos are "instructive" in my opinion.
Sensational? Sure. Condescending? The second one, yep. Instructive? Not
so much.
On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 20:47:10 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:45:26 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Wouldn't shrapnel be a concern? "Weakest link" and all that, if you know what
>>> I mean.
>>>
>>Yes I would fear that or seals may just fail and it would leak
>>substantially. You would certainly want one rated for the pressure you
>>would be using.
>
>
>Another important consideration is to ANCHOR whatever you are using,
>particularly if it is flexible.
>I'll never forget the time the fitting on an air tool broke off and 50
>feet of very flexible hose went flying around the shop with a hard
>heavy air connector on the end. By the time someone figured out what
>had happened and which hose it was, and got it disconnected, it had
>inflicted damage to several bodies and a couple of cars.
>
>Attempting to catch it was a futile excercise at best and resulted in
>a large part of the "bodily injury".
>
>I have to get around to hardlining my home garage so I can keep my
>airline length to a sensible and safe length. I've got the type K
>copper and fittings and brackets sitting waiting for me to get my ass
>in gear and get it done -- -
+1
I have a couple hundred feet of 1/2" tubing in the basement. No time
though. I'm trying to get some sheetrock up before I gotta go back to
work next Wednesday.
On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 14:23:19 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 3:38:24 PM UTC-6, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 18:19:31 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 12:25:06 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 08:24:31 -0800 (PST), [email protected]
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I just bought a 100-foot air line from Harbor Freight and snaked that through the walls from the garage to the basement shop. I added a moisture trap and a regulator at the basement end. The compressor runs at 125 psi and I can cut down the pressure in the shop to anything I need for pin nailers, etc. This is really convenient and probably cost less and took less effort than any kind of plumbing.
>> >> >That being said, a friend used ordinary CPVC pipe which is rated at 200 psi.
>> >>
>> >> And he may luck out and move before it breaks, or he may luck out and
>> >> there not be anybody near it when it breaks. You might find a couple
>> >> of videos instructive:
>> >>
>> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVO4_hUvFsc>
>> >
>> >How instructive is a video that shows that they couldn't get the PVC to
>> >shatter until they battered it numerous times with a weight of an unspecified
>> >amount from a height of 12' and then *froze* the frigging thing?
>> >
>> >For all we know, it would have shattered at 0 PSI after taking all that
>> >abuse and then being frozen. Heck, for all we know, it would have shattered
>> >the *first time* at 0 PSI once it was frozen. Bad example.
>> >
>> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1x1UxbD7B0>
>> >
>> >How instructive is a video of some guy who says nothing more than "Don't
>> >do it" without anything to back up his words other than some videos of PVC
>> >bursting after being subjected to...oh, wait...we have absolutely no idea
>> >what it was subjected to. Bad example.
>>
>>
>> Oregon OSHA states
>>
>> Plastic pipe used for compressed air service must be designed for such
>> service by the
>> manufacturer. Examples of such pipe include high-density polyethylene
>> (HDPE) and
>> Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene (ABS). Compressed air piping systems
>> that use plastic
>> pipe must also be project specific i.e., suited for a particular
>> application or project
>> and installed by a competent person.
>> Polyvinyl chloride (PVC) pipe must not be used in
>> compressed air systems unless it is buried or encased.
>> PVC pipes are unsafe when
>> theyre used for compressed
>> air service because they can
>> shatter or explode under
>> pressure or from an external
>> force. Sunlight (the UV
>> component) can also reduce
>> the impact resistance of PVC
>> pipe.
>
>I tend to think of ABS and PVC pipe as being the same. My usage of either pipe is with plumbing. Hard to believe ABS is compressed air compliant but PVC is not. Seems to me both would not be compliant.
The chemistries of ABS and PVC are rather different. Among other
things ABS is sufficiently impact resistant than at one time it was
used for motorcycle and racing helmets.
On Fri, 28 Dec 2018 17:32:06 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>
>I've gotta ask you to explain that one to me.
>
>This isn't the PC compressor I'm talking about, but the location of the drain
>is the same, i.e. up the side a few inches.
>
>https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41NH6dLMTYL._SL500_AC_SS350_.jpg
>
>How would adding a tube from the drain valve to the bottom of tank help?
>
>It's not like there's any suction at the valve to draw the water up the tube. The unit has to be tilted to drain it. Once the unit is tilted to drain, all
>the water will move to the then lowest point and the tube would actually
>*block* the drain.
>
>Am I missing something with your suggested tube placement.
You ARE missing something. If a line from the inner side of the drain
valve reaches to the bottom of the tank, when you open the drain air
pressure acting on the water will force it out the drain valve.
Mark the position of the drain valve. Temove it and solder a tube
into the valve, bent so it will reach the bottom of the tank at the
center of the tank, Feed the line into the hole then tighten the valve
to it's original position to put the end of the tube at the bottom of
the tank. VOILA!!! a drain that actually WORKS - for a few cents worth
of materials and about half an hour's work (if you are slow)
Joseph Gwinn <[email protected]> wrote:
> > The PEX is installed and works fine for my needs. There was never a concern
> > about the
> > water hurting the PEX; I have PEX for water in my house. In fact, the PEX I
> > use for water
> > is actually run at a higher pressure than the air hose, but still way below
> > the PEX ratings.
> >
> > 20+ years with no water leaks so I'm not concerned about the PEX used for the
> > air line.
>
> This part is not on target. The problem with compressed air is that it stores
> a lot of energy, unlike pressurized water (which is incompressible). With
> water, if there is a crack, a little water leaks out, dropping the pressure
> instantly. With compressed air, the energy stored within causes the crack to
> grow explosively, tearing the pipe apart and spraying the area with shattered
> plastic. (FYI, Boiler explosions are even worse - superheated liquid water
> flashes into steam when the pressure is released.)
Is this PVC pipe? https://youtu.be/F3wZ3gaywug
... asking for a friend.
On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 03:59:10 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 11:02:25 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 18:19:31 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 12:25:06 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 08:24:31 -0800 (PST), [email protected]
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I just bought a 100-foot air line from Harbor Freight and snaked that through the walls from the garage to the basement shop. I added a moisture trap and a regulator at the basement end. The compressor runs at 125 psi and I can cut down the pressure in the shop to anything I need for pin nailers, etc. This is really convenient and probably cost less and took less effort than any kind of plumbing.
>> >> >That being said, a friend used ordinary CPVC pipe which is rated at 200 psi.
>> >>
>> >> And he may luck out and move before it breaks, or he may luck out and
>> >> there not be anybody near it when it breaks. You might find a couple
>> >> of videos instructive:
>> >>
>> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVO4_hUvFsc>
>> >
>> >How instructive is a video that shows that they couldn't get the PVC to
>> >shatter until they battered it numerous times with a weight of an unspecified
>> >amount from a height of 12' and then *froze* the frigging thing?
>> >
>> >For all we know, it would have shattered at 0 PSI after taking all that
>> >abuse and then being frozen. Heck, for all we know, it would have shattered
>> >the *first time* at 0 PSI once it was frozen. Bad example.
>>
>> It may have shattered without pressure but it wouldn't have exploded,
>> throwing shrapnel. No thanks.
>> >
>> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1x1UxbD7B0>
>> >
>> >How instructive is a video of some guy who says nothing more than "Don't
>> >do it" without anything to back up his words other than some videos of PVC
>> >bursting after being subjected to...oh, wait...we have absolutely no idea
>> >what it was subjected to. Bad example.
>>
>> No, not at all but you're welcome to experiment with your life.
>
>Nothing I said indicated that I plan to use PVC for high pressure air or that I
>suggest anybody should.
That *was* the subject.
>There's a big difference between pointing out bad examples vs. disagreeing that
>with the main concept. Just because those videos do a terrible job of explaining
>why you shouldn't use PVC with air doesn't mean that you should.
>
>For example, if that second video had given any indication of what PSI caused the
>failures they would be perfect. Since they don't, we have no idea if the test resembled
>real world conditions or were just done for effect.
>
>In other words, they weren't very "instructive" other than to proof that you can indeed cause
>PVC to shatter while under pressure. Freezing the pipe apparently helps too.
Except that I don't want to be anywhere around it when it does. That's
good enough for me. You welcome to risk your life foolishly.
On Wed, 26 Dec 2018 15:11:07 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 12/26/2018 2:06 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> On Wednesday, December 26, 2018 at 12:31:32 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 12/26/18 9:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
>>>> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
>>>> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
>>>>
>>>> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
>>>> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
>>>> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
>>>> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
>>>>
>>>> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
>>>>
>>>> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
>>>> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
>>>> *any* hose in fact?
>>>>
>>>> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
>>>> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Have you thought of putting in an in-line moisture filter/trap?
>>>
>>
>> I thought about, but I'm trying figure out if one is really needed.
>>
>> People don't use a moisture trap when they haul their portable compressors
>> to job sites and use the e.g. 20' black hose that came with compressor, do
>> they? When is a moisture trap needed?
>>
>> If needed, what price-point would I be looking at for a 150 PSI compressor?
>> I'm not trying to build an industrial strength system, just something for a
>> small shop. Occasional nail gun use, nozzles for clean up, tire fills, etc.
>>
>
>
>Just to add a little more, the more air you move through the compressor
>in a relative short amount of time will determine if you will have a
>moisture issue.
>
>If you are using a nail gun occasionally you should have no problem
>Nail guns are high pressure and very low volume users. Your compressor
>will not be running constantly.
>
>On the other hand, filling a flat automobile tire or blowing your shop
>out for clean up is a very high volume operation and will promote
>moisture issues more quickly.
>
>The longer it takes for you to use enough air to trigger a recharge of
>pressure the better. The hotter the compressor runs the more moisture
>will be extracted from the air.
Not buying that science. ;-) The moisture is a constant given the
total volume of air. It doesn't matter if it's used slowly or quickly,
the moisture is the same. As the air in the tank expands it will cool
the same amount[*], no matter what the temperature of the tank is and
leave the water behind. The moisture that was pumped into the tank
has to come out of the tank somehow.
[*] Well, freezing may change things. ;-)
>If is is raining outside, when running the compressor, or if you live in
>a humid environment you will more likely have to deal with moisture.
More water in = more water out
>just put one of these on your compressor and be done with the wonderment
>of it all.
>
>$5.99
>
>https://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?dir=asc&order=EAScore%2Cf%2CEAFeatured+Weight%2Cf%2CSale+Rank%2Cf&q=compressor+water+seperator
That works but it won't keep your tank from becoming a rocket. ;-)
On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 20:36:42 -0500, Clare Snyder <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:38:03 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>wrote:
>
>>Ah, got'cha. Leave it to PC to add a drain but not one that works like
>>it should. It would probably cost and extra dollar or so, during
>>manufacture, to add a small tube to the inside of the drain valve that
>>reaches down to the bottom of the tank.
>>
>Likely not PC but the chinese sweat-shop that builds the darn things.
>PC just puts their labels on them, and they are too cheap to either do
>proper quality control or to buy a slightly higher priced unit.
And too cheap to actually engineer a proper one for the Chinese
re-education camps to make.
On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 18:19:31 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 12:25:06 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 08:24:31 -0800 (PST), [email protected]
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I just bought a 100-foot air line from Harbor Freight and snaked that through the walls from the garage to the basement shop. I added a moisture trap and a regulator at the basement end. The compressor runs at 125 psi and I can cut down the pressure in the shop to anything I need for pin nailers, etc. This is really convenient and probably cost less and took less effort than any kind of plumbing.
>> >That being said, a friend used ordinary CPVC pipe which is rated at 200 psi.
>>
>> And he may luck out and move before it breaks, or he may luck out and
>> there not be anybody near it when it breaks. You might find a couple
>> of videos instructive:
>>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVO4_hUvFsc>
>
>How instructive is a video that shows that they couldn't get the PVC to
>shatter until they battered it numerous times with a weight of an unspecified
>amount from a height of 12' and then *froze* the frigging thing?
>
>For all we know, it would have shattered at 0 PSI after taking all that
>abuse and then being frozen. Heck, for all we know, it would have shattered
>the *first time* at 0 PSI once it was frozen. Bad example.
It may have shattered without pressure but it wouldn't have exploded,
throwing shrapnel. No thanks.
>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1x1UxbD7B0>
>
>How instructive is a video of some guy who says nothing more than "Don't
>do it" without anything to back up his words other than some videos of PVC
>bursting after being subjected to...oh, wait...we have absolutely no idea
>what it was subjected to. Bad example.
No, not at all but you're welcome to experiment with your life.
On 12/26/18 9:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
>
> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
>
> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
>
> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
> *any* hose in fact?
>
> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
>
Have you thought of putting in an in-line moisture filter/trap?
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 12/26/2018 2:56 PM, Leon wrote:
...
>
> With that said, is PEX going to be adequate for high pressure air?
See ASTM F877 for PEX tubing.
Most box store PEX tubing will be rated 160 psi at 73°F but drops to 100
psi @ 180°F.
It's a little close on rating in my book at 150, but more than likely
there's some safety factor in play but I don't have any specifics in
that regards.
--
On 12/26/2018 10:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
>
> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
>
> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
>
> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
> *any* hose in fact?
>
> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
Isn't PEX used in water lines? Water is only an issue for your tools,
which generally require a few drops of oil to keep running, and prevent
rust. Painting obviously requires an oil and water free environment.
Virtually everyone that paints and has a larger, non portable compressor
has an oil/water separator in the line. They are cheap, so no reason
at all not to get one. You need a pressure regulator anyway, so get one
with a filter on it.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com
On 12/27/2018 11:01 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:25:21 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Isn't PEX used in water lines? Water is only an issue for your tools,
>> which generally require a few drops of oil to keep running, and prevent
>> rust. Painting obviously requires an oil and water free environment.
>> Virtually everyone that paints and has a larger, non portable compressor
>> has an oil/water separator in the line. They are cheap, so no reason
>> at all not to get one. You need a pressure regulator anyway, so get one
>> with a filter on it.
>
> ???
>
> PEX is flexible plastic pipe. It is not used "in" lines, it _is_ the
> line.
Really? DUH! I guess I should have said PEX is used "as","for" or "in
place" of water lines_. I should know better when writing to the
reading challenged. My obvious point was that water shouldn't bother a
product designed as a water transport item.
I also noted to get a water separator/regulator. I should have added if
you live under water, like in Texas, you might look into an automatic
moisture drain valve.
OH, by "in Texas" I meant on top of the ground, not actually in Texas
ground...
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com
On 12/27/2018 12:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, December 27, 2018 at 9:25:26 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
>> On 12/26/2018 10:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
>>> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
>>> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
>>>
>>> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
>>> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
>>> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
>>> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
>>>
>>> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
>>>
>>> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
>>> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
>>> *any* hose in fact?
>>>
>>> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
>>> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
>>
>> Isn't PEX used in water lines? Water is only an issue for your tools,
>> which generally require a few drops of oil to keep running, and prevent
>> rust. Painting obviously requires an oil and water free environment.
>> Virtually everyone that paints and has a larger, non portable compressor
>> has an oil/water separator in the line. They are cheap, so no reason
>> at all not to get one. You need a pressure regulator anyway, so get one
>> with a filter on it.
>>
>
> Did you actually think that I was concerned about the PEX getting wet? Wow!
Well, that is what you asked:
"Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture
is really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose
also? In *any* hose in fact?"
If you weren't concerned, then you shouldn't have asked. How am I
supposed to know how dumb you are?
> Of course I was concerned about the tools. I specifically mentioned a "tool"
> as the issue of concern.
So you think the _type_ of line will cause moisture in your tools?
That's even dumber than I thought. I'll be more specific for you.
Moisture is not an issue in PEX, not an issue in retractable hose, not
an issue in any hose. It can be an issue with your tools, irrespective
of what _type_ of line you use. Water is dealt with by using water
separators and automatic moisture drains.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com
On 12/27/2018 11:08 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> I know the stuff is pretty good, and can expand IIRC up to 10%. My
>> house pressurized plumbing is all PEX.
>> I was just wondering if PEX, besides having enough pressure resistance,
>> would pose any other danger like the PVC stories you hear about. It
>> being relatively pliable I would imagine it would simply fail but not
>> fly apart into pieces.
>
> I was going to say, CPVC is used for water too but definitely _NOT_
> advised for air. Personally, I wouldn't use either.
I agree, mainly because plastic becomes weak and brittle when exposed to
UV light. Not a big concern inside a house, in walls with little sun
light, but why fool with it. Of course, I recall my kids had plastic
swing sets and toys, forget the name, but they were indestructible. Most
ever happened to them was some color fading.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com
On 12/28/2018 9:30 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Dec 2018 08:45:41 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 12/27/2018 11:01 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Thu, 27 Dec 2018 09:25:21 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> Isn't PEX used in water lines? Water is only an issue for your tools,
>>>> which generally require a few drops of oil to keep running, and prevent
>>>> rust. Painting obviously requires an oil and water free environment.
>>>> Virtually everyone that paints and has a larger, non portable compressor
>>>> has an oil/water separator in the line. They are cheap, so no reason
>>>> at all not to get one. You need a pressure regulator anyway, so get one
>>>> with a filter on it.
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> PEX is flexible plastic pipe. It is not used "in" lines, it _is_ the
>>> line.
>>
>> Really? DUH! I guess I should have said PEX is used "as","for" or "in
>> place" of water lines_. I should know better when writing to the
>> reading challenged. My obvious point was that water shouldn't bother a
>> product designed as a water transport item.
>
> You seemed to believe that PEX was some sort of additive.
Contextually, that's about as remote a belief one could get from my
statement.
In any case, <plonk>.
Again?
Keep this up an you'll be talking to yourself...
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com
On 12/28/2018 2:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Friday, December 28, 2018 at 9:06:14 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
>> On 12/27/2018 12:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Thursday, December 27, 2018 at 9:25:26 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
>>>> On 12/26/2018 10:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
>>>>> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
>>>>> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
>>>>> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
>>>>> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
>>>>> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
>>>>> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
>>>>> *any* hose in fact?
>>>>>
>>>>> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
>>>>> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
>>>>
>>>> Isn't PEX used in water lines? Water is only an issue for your tools,
>>>> which generally require a few drops of oil to keep running, and prevent
>>>> rust. Painting obviously requires an oil and water free environment.
>>>> Virtually everyone that paints and has a larger, non portable compressor
>>>> has an oil/water separator in the line. They are cheap, so no reason
>>>> at all not to get one. You need a pressure regulator anyway, so get one
>>>> with a filter on it.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Did you actually think that I was concerned about the PEX getting wet? Wow!
>>
>> Well, that is what you asked:
>>
>> "Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture
>> is really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose
>> also? In *any* hose in fact?"
>>
>> If you weren't concerned, then you shouldn't have asked. How am I
>> supposed to know how dumb you are?
>
> You've used the words "reading challenged", so I guess I'll have to explain
> it to you.
>
> If you are going to quote what I said, make sure you quote enough to keep
> the context.
The truth is I quoted your ENTIRE message. Not my fault if you are
reading and writing impaired.
> I said "I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines
> in home workshops"
I know what you said, I quoted your entire message.
> Man, you aren't just an asshole, you're also an idiot. Is that specific
> enough for you?
I believe that is just another one of your rhetorical questions, so I
won't be wasting time answering.
> Be gone 'cuz I'm done with your stupidity.
I won't be going soon so you'll need to figure out how take on that
responsibility yourself.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com
On 12/30/2018 10:43 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Sunday, December 30, 2018 at 8:50:59 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
>> On 12/28/2018 2:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Friday, December 28, 2018 at 9:06:14 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
>>>> On 12/27/2018 12:03 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, December 27, 2018 at 9:25:26 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
>>>>>> On 12/26/2018 10:42 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>>> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
>>>>>>> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
>>>>>>> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
>>>>>>> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
>>>>>>> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
>>>>>>> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
>>>>>>> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
>>>>>>> *any* hose in fact?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
>>>>>>> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Isn't PEX used in water lines? Water is only an issue for your tools,
>>>>>> which generally require a few drops of oil to keep running, and prevent
>>>>>> rust. Painting obviously requires an oil and water free environment.
>>>>>> Virtually everyone that paints and has a larger, non portable compressor
>>>>>> has an oil/water separator in the line. They are cheap, so no reason
>>>>>> at all not to get one. You need a pressure regulator anyway, so get one
>>>>>> with a filter on it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Did you actually think that I was concerned about the PEX getting wet? Wow!
>>>>
>>>> Well, that is what you asked:
>>>>
>>>> "Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture
>>>> is really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose
>>>> also? In *any* hose in fact?"
>>>>
>>>> If you weren't concerned, then you shouldn't have asked. How am I
>>>> supposed to know how dumb you are?
>>>
>>> You've used the words "reading challenged", so I guess I'll have to explain
>>> it to you.
>>>
>>> If you are going to quote what I said, make sure you quote enough to keep
>>> the context.
>>
>> The truth is I quoted your ENTIRE message. Not my fault if you are
>> reading and writing impaired.
>
> And here we have another instance of bending the truth is instead of admitting
> your error.
I made no error, bent no truth. I quoted your whole entire message,
exactly enough to keep the context.
> Sure, you quoted my entire message, but then you quoted a single paragraph
> and responded as if those were the only words I wrote. That is the essence
> of removing all context.
Yes, that was the part of your message to which I was responding. It's
how it is done in usenet.
> "Quoting out of context (sometimes referred to as contextomy or quote mining)
> is an informal fallacy and a type of false attribution in which a passage is
> removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended
> meaning."
You are the one that distorted your intended meaning, IE: writing impaired.
>>> I said "I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines
>>> in home workshops"
>>
>> I know what you said, I quoted your entire message.
>
> See "quote mining" above.
See full statement I quoted above.
>>> Man, you aren't just an asshole, you're also an idiot. Is that specific
>>> enough for you?
>>
>> I believe that is just another one of your rhetorical questions, so I
>> won't be wasting time answering.
> These are not rhetorical questions:
Your words fool. Let me quote your exact statement:
"I then addressed that downside by asking "If moisture is really an
issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In *any*
hose in fact?" It was a point of discussion, essentially a _rhetorical
question_."
Note where YOU stated it was essentially "a rhetorical" question.
That was your first "rhetorical question" by your own statement.
Calling me an asshole and then asking me "is that specific enough for
you" was your 2nd rhetorical question. You really are out of touch with
your own statements. No wonder you are so confused.
I'll also point out that when you "quoted" yourself, you didn't quote
your exact words, but changed them to suit your lame, after the fact points.
> Don't you find it telling that you are the only one that got the impression
> that I was concerned about PEX getting wet? (Wow!) What does that say about
> your level of reading comprehension?
Don't know what others think, don't particularly give a damn, and its
irrelevant to the facts of the matter.
>>> Be gone 'cuz I'm done with your stupidity.
>>
>> I won't be going soon so you'll need to figure out how take on that
>> responsibility yourself.
Guess not! I've heard there is no such thing as a stupid question, but
apparently they haven't met you.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
http://jbstein.com
On 2/11/19 9:21 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> On Dec 26, 2018, DerbyDad03 wrote
> (in article<[email protected]>):
>
>> My son bought me a 50' retractable air hose for Christmas. I plan to hang it
>> in my attached garage where it will get the most use. However, I also use my
>> portable air compressor in my shop, which is in the basement.
>>
>> I've been reading and watching videos about using PEX as air lines in home
>> workshops and even in some commercial settings. If I ran PEX from the garage
>> to the shop, I could leave the compressor in the garage and have easy access
>> to air (and more room) in the (small) shop.
>>
>> The only downside that I heard mentioned was moisture collecting in the PEX.
>>
>> Is this something that I really need to be concerned with? If moisture is
>> really an issue in PEX, isn't it an issue in the retractable hose also? In
>> *any* hose in fact?
>>
>> If it is an issue, would clearing the line by attaching an air gun nozzle
>> before using a nail gun eliminate any moisture concerns?
>
> The standard approach is to slope the airline so the water will run down to a
> well-situated release valve at the bottom of a T with vertical stub.
>
> The water won´t hurt PEX, which is used for water service.
>
> If you intend to use the wire for a paint sprayer, a dryer is needed.
>
> PEX probably won´t explode, unlike PVC pipe. Do not use PVC for compressed
> air. But I´d ask the PEX manufacturer which kind of PEX is suitable for
> compressed air, if any.
>
> The traditional way to carry compressed air is iron pipe.
>
> Joe Gwinn
>
Just google it. There is PEX designed especially for compressed air.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 2/12/2019 11:33 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 12, 2019 at 9:01:56 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>> What is it that prevents you from understanding what I am saying?
>>
>> Your illiteracy.
>
> Ah, you've been talking to the reflection in your monitor again. Now it makes sense.
Clash of the morons...
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.
On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 08:24:31 -0800 (PST), [email protected]
wrote:
>I just bought a 100-foot air line from Harbor Freight and snaked that through the walls from the garage to the basement shop. I added a moisture trap and a regulator at the basement end. The compressor runs at 125 psi and I can cut down the pressure in the shop to anything I need for pin nailers, etc. This is really convenient and probably cost less and took less effort than any kind of plumbing.
>That being said, a friend used ordinary CPVC pipe which is rated at 200 psi.
And he may luck out and move before it breaks, or he may luck out and
there not be anybody near it when it breaks. You might find a couple
of videos instructive:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVO4_hUvFsc>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1x1UxbD7B0>
Note that the second one is by a major manufacturer of PVC
pipe--_they_ are telling you to _not_ buy their product for this
purpose.
Yes, there are more likely ways to get hurt in the shop. That does
not justify using something that is known to be a hazard when there
are well established safe alternatives.
On Mon, 11 Feb 2019 14:23:19 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Monday, February 11, 2019 at 3:38:24 PM UTC-6, Clare Snyder wrote:
>> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 18:19:31 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Sunday, February 10, 2019 at 12:25:06 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
>> >> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019 08:24:31 -0800 (PST), [email protected]
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >I just bought a 100-foot air line from Harbor Freight and snaked that through the walls from the garage to the basement shop. I added a moisture trap and a regulator at the basement end. The compressor runs at 125 psi and I can cut down the pressure in the shop to anything I need for pin nailers, etc. This is really convenient and probably cost less and took less effort than any kind of plumbing.
>> >> >That being said, a friend used ordinary CPVC pipe which is rated at 200 psi.
>> >>
>> >> And he may luck out and move before it breaks, or he may luck out and
>> >> there not be anybody near it when it breaks. You might find a couple
>> >> of videos instructive:
>> >>
>> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVO4_hUvFsc>
>> >
>> >How instructive is a video that shows that they couldn't get the PVC to
>> >shatter until they battered it numerous times with a weight of an unspecified
>> >amount from a height of 12' and then *froze* the frigging thing?
>> >
>> >For all we know, it would have shattered at 0 PSI after taking all that
>> >abuse and then being frozen. Heck, for all we know, it would have shattered
>> >the *first time* at 0 PSI once it was frozen. Bad example.
>> >
>> >> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1x1UxbD7B0>
>> >
>> >How instructive is a video of some guy who says nothing more than "Don't
>> >do it" without anything to back up his words other than some videos of PVC
>> >bursting after being subjected to...oh, wait...we have absolutely no idea
>> >what it was subjected to. Bad example.
>>
>>
>> Oregon OSHA states
>>
>> Plastic pipe used for compressed air service must be designed for such
>> service by the
>> manufacturer. Examples of such pipe include high-density polyethylene
>> (HDPE) and
>> Acrylonitrile Butadiene Styrene (ABS). Compressed air piping systems
>> that use plastic
>> pipe must also be project specific i.e., suited for a particular
>> application or project
>> and installed by a competent person.
>> Polyvinyl chloride (PVC) pipe must not be used in
>> compressed air systems unless it is buried or encased.
>> PVC pipes are unsafe when
>> theyre used for compressed
>> air service because they can
>> shatter or explode under
>> pressure or from an external
>> force. Sunlight (the UV
>> component) can also reduce
>> the impact resistance of PVC
>> pipe.
>
>I tend to think of ABS and PVC pipe as being the same. My usage of either pipe is with plumbing. Hard to believe ABS is compressed air compliant but PVC is not. Seems to me both would not be compliant.
ABS fails in a less spectacular fashion - less fragmentation.
PVC is also a lot nastierto glue as well, as it requires primer AND
cement, where ABS only needs cement.
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
> What is it that prevents you from understanding what I am saying?
Chronic anal-cranial inversion syndrome:
https://i.imgur.com/HNtAk8m.jpg