firmware and lawsuits
the perception of the danger of tables saws
the statistics of tables saw injuries
more and more safety features
while insurance and liability costs can only go up
seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
fewer and fewer people want to use them
i will always have one i think but
cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water
jets and ultrasonic cutting
how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop
i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more
streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
consolidation will be first and we see that already
then there will be fewer models available
then there will be fewer brands
then it will become a niche
then the prices will rise
then alternatives will look even better
On 21 Feb 2017 02:44:18 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 21 Feb 2017 02:09:09 GMT, Puckdropper
>> <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I've got all these neat power saws in my shop, but last night I choose
>>>the manual one. New tools probably won't replace the old ones,
>>>they'll be added to the arsenal so we can choose the right one for the
>>>job.
>>>
>>>I bet the power saws were sold as replacing manual saws when they
>>>first came out.
>>
>> No doubt but I don't see your point. Are you saying that you think
>> that a CNC machine will displace the table saw? In our lifetimes?
>>
>
>CNC machines will supplement the table saw. They'll offer another way to
>make the same cuts, a unique way to make different cuts, and won't be
>able to make come of the other cuts a TS can do.
Not buying it. Not a rotary tool CNC machine, anyway, and not in a
home shop.
On Mon, 20 Feb 2017 15:23:13 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:
>On Monday, February 20, 2017 at 4:41:14 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:15:52 -0500
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> > I don't expect to see the table saw obsolete in my lifetime - but I
>>
>> there is a trend in the direction
>>
>> for a wood shop with employees a cnc would look really good
>>
>> cnc lowers the chance of injury dramatically
>>
>> shop injuries are tramatic experience for everyone not just the
>> injured employee
>
>If someone told me 10 years ago there would be driverless cars on the highway, it would have been met with total disbelief on my part...
I highly doubt that I'll ever own a "driverless car" but there is
about 100x the chance that I will (own a driverless car) than a CNC
that would replace my table saw. Not going to happen.
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>firmware and lawsuits
>
>the perception of the danger of tables saws
>the statistics of tables saw injuries
>more and more safety features
>while insurance and liability costs can only go up
>
>
>seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
>fewer and fewer people want to use them
>
>i will always have one i think but
>
>cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water
>jets and ultrasonic cutting
>
>
>how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop
>
>i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
>market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more
>streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
>
>
>consolidation will be first and we see that already
>then there will be fewer models available
>then there will be fewer brands
>then it will become a niche
>then the prices will rise
>then alternatives will look even better
Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp.
On 21 Feb 2017 04:11:54 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> Not buying it. Not a rotary tool CNC machine, anyway, and not in a
>> home shop.
>
>Ok.
>
>I did some tests with finger joints on my CNC router and they turned out
>quite nicely. I just got distracted with other problems before I finished
>the case I was building. In that case, I used the TS to cut the wood to
>size, planer to give it a decent finish and parallel edges, and CNC router
>to do the end cuts.
>
>I may have been better off cutting the entire piece on the CNC, but the
>important part was the finger joints.
>
>Puckdropper
And with the right jig, you could have made the finger joints on the
table saw just as well. Would have taken a bit longer though - and
there are fancy box joints that would be almost impossible to do on
the table saw - and the CNC doing the job of the planer would have
been PAINFULLY slow!!
On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 5:58:39 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 12:46:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Computer Numeric Control
> >
> >Depending on what you are using the technology for, it can reasonably
> >priced or very expensive.
> >
> >Reasonable:
> >
> >https://www.amazon.com/Konmison-Machine-Engraving-Milling-Carving/dp/B01EYCQDFU
>
> And THAT machine could not do ANYTHING you would typically do on a
> table saw.
> >
> >Expensive:
> >
> >https://www.tormach.com/buy_15lslantpro.html
>
> And nor would that one!!.
>
> We are talking about machines like this!!!
No, *you* are talking about machines like that.
I was simply pointing out that CNC machines cover
a large range of uses since Keith wasn't even sure that
the letters CNC stood for what he found during his search.
He said:
"These things are very expensive, and if this definition is
correct out of the budget of the average wood worker.
Could some one provide a definition of CNC as has been used in
this thread?"
There actually are CNC machines for woodworkers that fit
our budgets.
BTW...what's with the 3 exclamation points? Did you
keyboard stutter?
On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 1:03:46 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> On 2/19/2017 11:08 AM, Jack wrote:
> > On 2/15/2017 10:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> >> On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> firmware and lawsuits
> >>>
> >>> the perception of the danger of tables saws
> >>> the statistics of tables saw injuries
> >>> more and more safety features
> >>> while insurance and liability costs can only go up
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
> >>> fewer and fewer people want to use them
> >>>
> >>> i will always have one i think but
> >>>
> >>> cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
> >>> water
> >>> jets and ultrasonic cutting
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
> >>> shop
> >>>
> >>> i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
> >>> market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for
> >>> more
> >>> streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> consolidation will be first and we see that already
> >>> then there will be fewer models available
> >>> then there will be fewer brands
> >>> then it will become a niche
> >>> then the prices will rise
> >>> then alternatives will look even better
> >>
> >> Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp.
> >>
> > Nothing in his message is nuts, nor wimpy? Do you think Leon is wimpy
> > because he has a Saw Stop?
> >
> > I think you're nuts and have some bazaar attraction to the Comet..
> >
> I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table
> saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little
> knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more
> computer control tool.
>
> Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have
> been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation.
>
> As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is
> the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are
> very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of
> the average wood worker.
>
> Could some one provide a definition of CNC as has been used in this thread?
Computer Numeric Control
Depending on what you are using the technology for, it can reasonably
priced or very expensive.
Reasonable:
https://www.amazon.com/Konmison-Machine-Engraving-Milling-Carving/dp/B01EYCQDFU
Expensive:
https://www.tormach.com/buy_15lslantpro.html
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 11:08:52 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2/15/2017 10:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> firmware and lawsuits
>>>
>>> the perception of the danger of tables saws
>>> the statistics of tables saw injuries
>>> more and more safety features
>>> while insurance and liability costs can only go up
>>>
>>>
>>> seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
>>> fewer and fewer people want to use them
>>>
>>> i will always have one i think but
>>>
>>> cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water
>>> jets and ultrasonic cutting
>>>
>>>
>>> how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop
>>>
>>> i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
>>> market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more
>>> streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
>>>
>>>
>>> consolidation will be first and we see that already
>>> then there will be fewer models available
>>> then there will be fewer brands
>>> then it will become a niche
>>> then the prices will rise
>>> then alternatives will look even better
>>
>> Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp.
>>
>Nothing in his message is nuts, nor wimpy? Do you think Leon is wimpy
>because he has a Saw Stop?
I know you're not very bright but you really don't have to prov it.
>
>I think you're nuts and have some bazaar attraction to the Comet..
If everyone ignores him, I'm game too.
On Monday, February 20, 2017 at 4:41:14 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:15:52 -0500
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > I don't expect to see the table saw obsolete in my lifetime - but I
>
> there is a trend in the direction
>
> for a wood shop with employees a cnc would look really good
>
> cnc lowers the chance of injury dramatically
>
> shop injuries are tramatic experience for everyone not just the
> injured employee
If someone told me 10 years ago there would be driverless cars on the highway, it would have been met with total disbelief on my part...
On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 07:14:09 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:
>On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 7:08:22 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:
>> firmware and lawsuits
>>
>> the perception of the danger of tables saws
>> the statistics of tables saw injuries
>> more and more safety features
>> while insurance and liability costs can only go up
>>
>>
>> seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
>> fewer and fewer people want to use them
>>
>> i will always have one i think but
>>
>> cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water
>> jets and ultrasonic cutting
>>
>>
>> how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop
>>
>> i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
>> market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more
>> streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
>>
>>
>> consolidation will be first and we see that already
>> then there will be fewer models available
>> then there will be fewer brands
>> then it will become a niche
>> then the prices will rise
>> then alternatives will look even better
>
>I would bet that track saws replace more table saws than CNC and electronic fabrication techniques in the not too distant future...I think there will always be a table saw in the shop of most woodworkers...
Track saws are great for breaking down panels into usable sizes but
they're not so great for the other 99% of the things one does on a
table saw. Table saws aren't going anywhere. OTOH, SS technology may
become standard in a small number of years.
Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> firmware and lawsuits
>
> the perception of the danger of tables saws
> the statistics of tables saw injuries
> more and more safety features
> while insurance and liability costs can only go up
>
>
> seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
> fewer and fewer people want to use them
>
> i will always have one i think but
>
> cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
> water jets and ultrasonic cutting
>
>
> how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
> shop
>
> i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due
> to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing
> for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
>
>
> consolidation will be first and we see that already
> then there will be fewer models available
> then there will be fewer brands
> then it will become a niche
> then the prices will rise
> then alternatives will look even better
>
CNC is already in the affordable range. It's just not particularly well
suited to the tasks the table saw can do. It will take me more time to
position and tie down the board on the CNC machine and enter G0 Y10.5,
zero coordinates, G0 X48 than it will to position the fence and make my
cut.
Plus, getting an exact width like you can when you cut multiple pieces on
the table saw without moving the fence is harder. You have to deal with
positioning the boards on the CNC bed exactly in the same place, and
that's harder to do. (Even stops sometimes give more than you'd like.)
CNC will be an addition to the shop, but all it will be a replacement for
is template routing. You might be able to do some cool joinery too. I
used my little Taig for finger joints and finished up with a chisel.
Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> Computer Numeric Control
>
> Depending on what you are using the technology for, it can reasonably
> priced or very expensive.
>
> Reasonable:
>
> https://www.amazon.com/Konmison-Machine-Engraving-Milling-Carving/dp/B0
> 1EYCQDFU
>
> Expensive:
>
> https://www.tormach.com/buy_15lslantpro.html
That "reasonable" isn't. You'll run out of space in that work area,
(5.1'' * 3.9'' * 1.6''), before you got done securing anything. Even model
railroad work in N-scale (1:160) needs more space!
Work area and rigidity are two of the most important parts of CNC machines.
IMO, anything smaller than a Taig is just going to be too small. That
still won't even come close to replacing your TS.
Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
Spalted Walt <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the
> 6040:
>
> http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo
>
> I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal.
>
> I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a
> parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from
> here:
> http://www.machsupport.com/
> http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/
> http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/
>
> He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been
> collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-)
>
G1 X3Y0
G1 X4
G1 X3Y2
G1 Y0
G-code? What's that? ;-)
Your friend might be interested in software like CamBam. It does a fine
job of abstracting away the G-code, so you draw your objects then tell
CamBam what machining operations to do and it spits out the relavent G-
code.
I only know enough G-code to move the machine in straight lines and to
use "canned" drilling cycles. It's handy when you're drilling a bunch of
repetitive holes. I recognize G3 and IJK, just don't know what it's
doing. The CAM software abstracts all that away. It's probably just as
fast for me to draw the curve in CAM and convert that to G-code as it is
for me to look up the docs and figure out how to express that curve
mathematically so the machine can handle it.
Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
[email protected] wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> I highly doubt that I'll ever own a "driverless car" but there is
> about 100x the chance that I will (own a driverless car) than a CNC
> that would replace my table saw. Not going to happen.
I've got all these neat power saws in my shop, but last night I choose the
manual one. New tools probably won't replace the old ones, they'll be
added to the arsenal so we can choose the right one for the job.
I bet the power saws were sold as replacing manual saws when they first
came out.
Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
[email protected] wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 21 Feb 2017 02:09:09 GMT, Puckdropper
> <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>
>>
>>I've got all these neat power saws in my shop, but last night I choose
>>the manual one. New tools probably won't replace the old ones,
>>they'll be added to the arsenal so we can choose the right one for the
>>job.
>>
>>I bet the power saws were sold as replacing manual saws when they
>>first came out.
>
> No doubt but I don't see your point. Are you saying that you think
> that a CNC machine will displace the table saw? In our lifetimes?
>
CNC machines will supplement the table saw. They'll offer another way to
make the same cuts, a unique way to make different cuts, and won't be
able to make come of the other cuts a TS can do.
Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
[email protected] wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Not buying it. Not a rotary tool CNC machine, anyway, and not in a
> home shop.
Ok.
I did some tests with finger joints on my CNC router and they turned out
quite nicely. I just got distracted with other problems before I finished
the case I was building. In that case, I used the TS to cut the wood to
size, planer to give it a decent finish and parallel edges, and CNC router
to do the end cuts.
I may have been better off cutting the entire piece on the CNC, but the
important part was the finger joints.
Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
Spalted Walt wrote:
> Keith Nuttle <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table
>> saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little
>> knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more
>> computer control tool.
>>
>> Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have
>> been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation.
>>
>> As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is
>> the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are
>> very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of
>> the average wood worker.
>
> Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the 6040:
>
> http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo
>
> I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal.
>
> I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a
> parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from
> here:
> http://www.machsupport.com/
> http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/
> http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/
>
> He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been
> collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-)
>
And how does it handle an 8x4 foot sheet of ply which a few hundred
dollar table saw can.
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 2/20/2017 10:11 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>
>> Ok.
>>
>> I did some tests with finger joints on my CNC router and they turned
>> out quite nicely. I just got distracted with other problems before I
>> finished the case I was building. In that case, I used the TS to cut
>> the wood to size, planer to give it a decent finish and parallel
>> edges, and CNC router to do the end cuts.
>>
>> I may have been better off cutting the entire piece on the CNC, but
>> the important part was the finger joints.
>>
>> Puckdropper
>>
>
>
> I am assuming a router type CNC. How do you square the bottoms of the
> finger joints? Do you stand the pieces up on end?
>
I used a 3mm mortising chisel to square things up. There's no room to
stand the piece up, my mill* only has 5" or so Z-axis movement.
I guess I could program the mill to approximate a 1/8" radius cut on the
side of the finger joints, but at the time it wasn't important. I just
spent a few bucks on a chisel and got the work done.
*I said router before, but it's really a mill.
Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
Spalted Walt <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> knuttle <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> The average woodworker is more in likely to run into the need cut a
>> 4' X 8' piece of ply wood than to have a need for a machine to cut
>> the complicated cuts shown in the videos.
>
> I Agree.
>
>
For the sake of argument, I'll take a contrary viewpoint. One of the
reasons our shapes tend to be square and based upon squares is that
they're easy to make. A circular saw wants to cut straight, it just
needs a little help. Jigsaws need care to cut curves nicely and bandsaws
usually have limited throat clearance.
CNC lets the machine handle fancy and complicated cuts, so it might
unlock the creativity of the guy using the machine. Now that he's got a
machine that will do perpendicular curved cuts, he'll be more likely to
do that fancy cutout and now the desk he's building looks something like
the great Chicago Bean. (Maybe it even opens up, like an old roll top.)
It's not that he can't do it with traditional tools, it's that the CNC
has taken some of the frustration and tedium out of it.
Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!
One of the real problems - there are many versions of G-Code languages.
It allows for extensions and many just use them and change the code.
The company thought is to trap more business in training and keep you in
their machine. I think it did the opposite.
Martin
On 2/19/2017 8:45 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
> Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>
>> Spalted Walt <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>>
>>> Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the
>>> 6040:
>>>
>>> http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo
>>>
>>> I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal.
>>>
>>> I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a
>>> parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from
>>> here:
>>> http://www.machsupport.com/
>>> http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/
>>> http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/
>>>
>>> He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been
>>> collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-)
>>>
>>
>> G1 X3Y0
>> G1 X4
>> G1 X3Y2
>> G1 Y0
>>
>> G-code? What's that? ;-)
>>
>> Your friend might be interested in software like CamBam. It does a fine
>> job of abstracting away the G-code, so you draw your objects then tell
>> CamBam what machining operations to do and it spits out the relavent G-
>> code.
>>
>> I only know enough G-code to move the machine in straight lines and to
>> use "canned" drilling cycles. It's handy when you're drilling a bunch of
>> repetitive holes. I recognize G3 and IJK, just don't know what it's
>> doing. The CAM software abstracts all that away. It's probably just as
>> fast for me to draw the curve in CAM and convert that to G-code as it is
>> for me to look up the docs and figure out how to express that curve
>> mathematically so the machine can handle it.
>>
>> Puckdropper
>
> There are several free small G-code demo files donated by some forum
> memebers here:
>
> http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,18345.0.html
>
> The first post has a file 'Demo Gcode.zip' which contains several
> G-code examples. 'Scorpion.tap' ran/worked great on my friend's CNC
> without modification using Mach3 software. All the G-code files in
> the .zip are merely text files with .tap or .nc extensions. They can
> be opened viewed/edited/saved with Notepad, Wordpad, Vi etc.
>
On 2/20/2017 10:11 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
> [email protected] wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Not buying it. Not a rotary tool CNC machine, anyway, and not in a
>> home shop.
>
> Ok.
>
> I did some tests with finger joints on my CNC router and they turned out
> quite nicely. I just got distracted with other problems before I finished
> the case I was building. In that case, I used the TS to cut the wood to
> size, planer to give it a decent finish and parallel edges, and CNC router
> to do the end cuts.
>
> I may have been better off cutting the entire piece on the CNC, but the
> important part was the finger joints.
>
> Puckdropper
>
I am assuming a router type CNC. How do you square the bottoms of the
finger joints? Do you stand the pieces up on end?
In article <pnipact0pcv58vj1rt0qd76hdakjik6s5n@
4ax.com>, [email protected] says...
>
> F Murtz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Spalted Walt wrote:
> > > Keith Nuttle <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table
> > >> saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little
> > >> knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more
> > >> computer control tool.
> > >>
> > >> Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have
> > >> been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation.
> > >>
> > >> As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is
> > >> the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are
> > >> very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of
> > >> the average wood worker.
> > >
> > > Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the 6040:
> > >
> > > http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo
> > >
> > > I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal.
> > >
> > > I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a
> > > parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from
> > > here:
> > > http://www.machsupport.com/
> > > http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/
> > > http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/
> > >
> > > He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been
> > > collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-)
> > >
> > And how does it handle an 8x4 foot sheet of ply which a few hundred
> > dollar table saw can.
>
> About as well as your "few hundred dollar" table saw can handle these
> tasks:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR0wpgL8Z9g
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po4NB8kPodw
>
> What's your point?
Please read the subject.
On 2/21/2017 11:21 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 2/20/2017 10:11 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
>>>
>>> Ok.
>>>
>>> I did some tests with finger joints on my CNC router and they turned
>>> out quite nicely. I just got distracted with other problems before I
>>> finished the case I was building. In that case, I used the TS to cut
>>> the wood to size, planer to give it a decent finish and parallel
>>> edges, and CNC router to do the end cuts.
>>>
>>> I may have been better off cutting the entire piece on the CNC, but
>>> the important part was the finger joints.
>>>
>>> Puckdropper
>>>
>>
>>
>> I am assuming a router type CNC. How do you square the bottoms of the
>> finger joints? Do you stand the pieces up on end?
>>
>
> I used a 3mm mortising chisel to square things up. There's no room to
> stand the piece up, my mill* only has 5" or so Z-axis movement.
>
> I guess I could program the mill to approximate a 1/8" radius cut on the
> side of the finger joints, but at the time it wasn't important. I just
> spent a few bucks on a chisel and got the work done.
>
> *I said router before, but it's really a mill.
>
> Puckdropper
>
I see...a little clean up work. ;~)
Electric Comet <[email protected]> writes:
>On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:15:52 -0500
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>> I don't expect to see the table saw obsolete in my lifetime - but I
>for a wood shop with employees a cnc would look really good
Don't be a fool. The throughput would be pathetic.
On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 15:01:23 +0000 (UTC), Trenbidia
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:12:33 -0500, krw wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>firmware and lawsuits
>>>
>>>the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw
>>>injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability
>>>costs can only go up
>>>
>>>
>>>seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and
>>>fewer people want to use them
>>>
>>>i will always have one i think but
>>>
>>>cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
>>>water jets and ultrasonic cutting
>>>
>>>
>>>how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
>>>shop
>>>
>>>i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
>>>market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for
>>>more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
>>>
>>>
>>>consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be
>>>fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will
>>>become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look
>>>even better
>>
>> Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp.
>
>Hello pot, meet kettle.
Oh, my. Another sockpuppet unearthed.
Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
> Spalted Walt <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> >
> > Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the
> > 6040:
> >
> > http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo
> >
> > I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal.
> >
> > I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a
> > parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from
> > here:
> > http://www.machsupport.com/
> > http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/
> > http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/
> >
> > He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been
> > collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-)
> >
>
> G1 X3Y0
> G1 X4
> G1 X3Y2
> G1 Y0
>
> G-code? What's that? ;-)
>
> Your friend might be interested in software like CamBam. It does a fine
> job of abstracting away the G-code, so you draw your objects then tell
> CamBam what machining operations to do and it spits out the relavent G-
> code.
>
> I only know enough G-code to move the machine in straight lines and to
> use "canned" drilling cycles. It's handy when you're drilling a bunch of
> repetitive holes. I recognize G3 and IJK, just don't know what it's
> doing. The CAM software abstracts all that away. It's probably just as
> fast for me to draw the curve in CAM and convert that to G-code as it is
> for me to look up the docs and figure out how to express that curve
> mathematically so the machine can handle it.
>
> Puckdropper
There are several free small G-code demo files donated by some forum
memebers here:
http://www.machsupport.com/forum/index.php/topic,18345.0.html
The first post has a file 'Demo Gcode.zip' which contains several
G-code examples. 'Scorpion.tap' ran/worked great on my friend's CNC
without modification using Mach3 software. All the G-code files in
the .zip are merely text files with .tap or .nc extensions. They can
be opened viewed/edited/saved with Notepad, Wordpad, Vi etc.
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 12:46:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Computer Numeric Control
>
>Depending on what you are using the technology for, it can reasonably
>priced or very expensive.
>
>Reasonable:
>
>https://www.amazon.com/Konmison-Machine-Engraving-Milling-Carving/dp/B01EYCQDFU
And THAT machine could not do ANYTHING you would typically do on a
table saw.
>
>Expensive:
>
>https://www.tormach.com/buy_15lslantpro.html
And nor would that one!!.
We are talking about machines like this!!!
http://multicam.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Classic-Series-Router-908x648.jpg
or the RC8 shown here -:
http://www.shopsabre.com/cnc/router/rc-series/
Note the price is well north of 15 Gs.
Either of these can take the place of
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.1000676081.html?eid=PS_GOOGLE_HD+%7C+PLAs_DSA+Shopping_DSA_All+Products_dsa-177165768512&gclid=CNKP9Z6fndICFVu5wAodsmwNuQ
at $829, or
http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=72154&cat=1,41080,72156
The fully loaded SawStop contactor saw for $Cdn 2837 - or the cadillac
- the loaded professional cabinet version for about $4475 Canadian
converted to 220 volt..
And just look at the difference in real estate eaten up by the
different options. I don't have 35 square feet of space to dedicate to
a tool that is not utilized full time!!! - even if I DID have the
spare "bread" to buy it.
On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 7:08:22 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:
> firmware and lawsuits
>
> the perception of the danger of tables saws
> the statistics of tables saw injuries
> more and more safety features
> while insurance and liability costs can only go up
>
>
> seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
> fewer and fewer people want to use them
>
> i will always have one i think but
>
> cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water
> jets and ultrasonic cutting
>
>
> how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop
>
> i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
> market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more
> streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
>
>
> consolidation will be first and we see that already
> then there will be fewer models available
> then there will be fewer brands
> then it will become a niche
> then the prices will rise
> then alternatives will look even better
I would bet that track saws replace more table saws than CNC and electronic fabrication techniques in the not too distant future...I think there will always be a table saw in the shop of most woodworkers...
Keith Nuttle <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table
> saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little
> knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more
> computer control tool.
>
> Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have
> been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation.
>
> As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is
> the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are
> very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of
> the average wood worker.
Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the 6040:
http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo
I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal.
I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a
parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from
here:
http://www.machsupport.com/
http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/
http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/
He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been
collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-)
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Please read the subject.
re-read the post I originally responded to:
Keith Nuttle <[email protected]> wrote:
> I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table
> saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little
> knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more
> computer control tool.
>
> Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have
> been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation.
>
> As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is
> the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are
> very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of
> the average wood worker.
On Tue, 21 Feb 2017 23:33:57 +1100, F Murtz <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Spalted Walt wrote:
>> Keith Nuttle <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table
>>> saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little
>>> knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more
>>> computer control tool.
>>>
>>> Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have
>>> been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation.
>>>
>>> As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is
>>> the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are
>>> very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of
>>> the average wood worker.
>>
>> Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the 6040:
>>
>> http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo
>>
>> I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal.
>>
>> I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a
>> parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from
>> here:
>> http://www.machsupport.com/
>> http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/
>> http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/
>>
>> He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been
>> collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-)
>>
>And how does it handle an 8x4 foot sheet of ply which a few hundred
>dollar table saw can.
Or rip a 16' 2-by?
On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 17:24:04 +0000 (UTC), Trenbidia
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 12:04:33 -0500, krw wrote:
>
>>>> Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp.
>>>
>>>Hello pot, meet kettle.
>>
>> Oh, my. Another sockpuppet unearthed.
>
>Yep - not me. Note the lack of signature line in his/her post.
Yes, you. Idiot.
On 21 Feb 2017 02:09:09 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> I highly doubt that I'll ever own a "driverless car" but there is
>> about 100x the chance that I will (own a driverless car) than a CNC
>> that would replace my table saw. Not going to happen.
>
>I've got all these neat power saws in my shop, but last night I choose the
>manual one. New tools probably won't replace the old ones, they'll be
>added to the arsenal so we can choose the right one for the job.
>
>I bet the power saws were sold as replacing manual saws when they first
>came out.
No doubt but I don't see your point. Are you saying that you think
that a CNC machine will displace the table saw? In our lifetimes?
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>firmware and lawsuits
>
>the perception of the danger of tables saws
>the statistics of tables saw injuries
>more and more safety features
>while insurance and liability costs can only go up
>
>
>seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
>fewer and fewer people want to use them
>
>i will always have one i think but
>
>cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water
>jets and ultrasonic cutting
>
>
>how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop
>
>i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
>market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more
>streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
>
>
>consolidation will be first and we see that already
>then there will be fewer models available
>then there will be fewer brands
>then it will become a niche
>then the prices will rise
>then alternatives will look even better
>
>
>
>
>
I don't expect to see the table saw obsolete in my lifetime - but I
could be wrong. I could live past 100.
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 16:50:35 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 5:58:39 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 12:46:27 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Computer Numeric Control
>> >
>> >Depending on what you are using the technology for, it can reasonably
>> >priced or very expensive.
>> >
>> >Reasonable:
>> >
>> >https://www.amazon.com/Konmison-Machine-Engraving-Milling-Carving/dp/B01EYCQDFU
>>
>> And THAT machine could not do ANYTHING you would typically do on a
>> table saw.
>> >
>> >Expensive:
>> >
>> >https://www.tormach.com/buy_15lslantpro.html
>>
>> And nor would that one!!.
>>
>> We are talking about machines like this!!!
>
>No, *you* are talking about machines like that.
>
>I was simply pointing out that CNC machines cover
>a large range of uses since Keith wasn't even sure that
>the letters CNC stood for what he found during his search.
>
>He said:
>
>"These things are very expensive, and if this definition is
>correct out of the budget of the average wood worker.
>
>Could some one provide a definition of CNC as has been used in
>this thread?"
>
>There actually are CNC machines for woodworkers that fit
>our budgets.
>
>BTW...what's with the 3 exclamation points? Did you
>keyboard stutter?
Keith was wondering how CNC applied to the thread.
If I'm not mistaken the "thread" is about (or has morphed to) "cnc
machines" making "table saws" obsolete. None of the "toys" referenced
stand a chance of replacing a table saw for any meaningfull type of
work, if any at all.
An aquaintance has one we used to make a couple of crokinole boards a
couple years ago, and we were pretty well at the limit size wize for
his machine (which is largere than any of those shown). It also did a
good job of making the moldings around the openings (hatches) in a
lake kayak out of oak and teak.
None of these jobs would have been candidates for a table saw
On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 13:03:45 -0500, Keith Nuttle
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2/19/2017 11:08 AM, Jack wrote:
>> On 2/15/2017 10:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> firmware and lawsuits
>>>>
>>>> the perception of the danger of tables saws
>>>> the statistics of tables saw injuries
>>>> more and more safety features
>>>> while insurance and liability costs can only go up
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
>>>> fewer and fewer people want to use them
>>>>
>>>> i will always have one i think but
>>>>
>>>> cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
>>>> water
>>>> jets and ultrasonic cutting
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
>>>> shop
>>>>
>>>> i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
>>>> market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for
>>>> more
>>>> streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> consolidation will be first and we see that already
>>>> then there will be fewer models available
>>>> then there will be fewer brands
>>>> then it will become a niche
>>>> then the prices will rise
>>>> then alternatives will look even better
>>>
>>> Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp.
>>>
>> Nothing in his message is nuts, nor wimpy? Do you think Leon is wimpy
>> because he has a Saw Stop?
>>
>> I think you're nuts and have some bazaar attraction to the Comet..
>>
>I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table
>saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little
>knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more
>computer control tool.
>
>Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have
>been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation.
>
>As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is
>the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are
>very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of
>the average wood worker.
>
>Could some one provide a definition of CNC as has been used in this thread?
You hit it solidly square on, on the first try. They are talking
computer nemerical controlled routers in place of a table saw.
I can see it taking the place of a router/template or scroll saw LONG
before it takes the place of a table saw. A 4 or 9 square foot CNC
router is not TERRIBLY prohibitively priced for specialty woodworking,
but a 32-36 square foot unit to handle a full 4X8 is a horse of a
totally different colour!!!.
On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 07:14:09 -0800 (PST), [email protected] wrote:
>On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 7:08:22 PM UTC-5, Electric Comet wrote:
>> firmware and lawsuits
>>
>> the perception of the danger of tables saws
>> the statistics of tables saw injuries
>> more and more safety features
>> while insurance and liability costs can only go up
>>
>>
>> seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
>> fewer and fewer people want to use them
>>
>> i will always have one i think but
>>
>> cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water
>> jets and ultrasonic cutting
>>
>>
>> how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop
>>
>> i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
>> market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more
>> streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
>>
>>
>> consolidation will be first and we see that already
>> then there will be fewer models available
>> then there will be fewer brands
>> then it will become a niche
>> then the prices will rise
>> then alternatives will look even better
>
>I would bet that track saws replace more table saws than CNC and electronic fabrication techniques in the not too distant future...I think there will always be a table saw in the shop of most woodworkers...
Generally I find trac-saws CLUMSY.
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 22:12:33 -0500, krw wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>firmware and lawsuits
>>
>>the perception of the danger of tables saws the statistics of tables saw
>>injuries more and more safety features while insurance and liability
>>costs can only go up
>>
>>
>>seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out fewer and
>>fewer people want to use them
>>
>>i will always have one i think but
>>
>>cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
>>water jets and ultrasonic cutting
>>
>>
>>how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
>>shop
>>
>>i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
>>market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for
>>more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
>>
>>
>>consolidation will be first and we see that already then there will be
>>fewer models available then there will be fewer brands then it will
>>become a niche then the prices will rise then alternatives will look
>>even better
>
> Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp.
Hello pot, meet kettle.
--
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!
On 2/16/2017 10:14 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> I would bet that track saws replace more table saws than CNC and electronic fabrication techniques in the not too distant future...I think there will always be a table saw in the shop of most woodworkers...
I agree with the above. Put a dado head on a CNC, cut a rabbit, etc.
"Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> firmware and lawsuits
>>
>> the perception of the danger of tables saws
>> the statistics of tables saw injuries
>> more and more safety features
>> while insurance and liability costs can only go up
>>
>>
>> seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
>> fewer and fewer people want to use them
>>
>> i will always have one i think but
>>
>> cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
>> water jets and ultrasonic cutting
>>
>>
>> how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
>> shop
>>
>> i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due
>> to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing
>> for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
>>
>>
>> consolidation will be first and we see that already
>> then there will be fewer models available
>> then there will be fewer brands
>> then it will become a niche
>> then the prices will rise
>> then alternatives will look even better
>>
>
> CNC is already in the affordable range. It's just not particularly well
> suited to the tasks the table saw can do. It will take me more time to
> position and tie down the board on the CNC machine and enter G0 Y10.5,
> zero coordinates, G0 X48 than it will to position the fence and make my
> cut.
>
> Plus, getting an exact width like you can when you cut multiple pieces on
> the table saw without moving the fence is harder. You have to deal with
> positioning the boards on the CNC bed exactly in the same place, and
> that's harder to do. (Even stops sometimes give more than you'd like.)
>
> CNC will be an addition to the shop, but all it will be a replacement for
> is template routing. You might be able to do some cool joinery too. I
> used my little Taig for finger joints and finished up with a chisel.
>
> Puckdropper
I tend to agree. I tend more towards metal working than wood working, but
the same principle applies. I've got three drill presses and two mill
drills in the shop. I've also got 4 CNC mills and parts for more along with
one small CNC wood router. I use the manual machines every day, and have no
plans to get rid of any of them except maybe to replace them with a better
quality unit. And if I had a CNC lathe I wouldn't get rid of my manual
lathes. Some things are just so much faster to setup and whip it out on a
manual machine.
As to stops moving.... well that happens on any machine. I've seen table
saw fences slowly walk across the table a little bit each time a ham handed
helper slammed a sheet of ply up against it, and the stops on most miter saw
stands I've used are a joke. They are more of a "slow down" than a stop.
"woodchucker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/16/2017 5:13 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> "Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> firmware and lawsuits
>>>>
>>>> the perception of the danger of tables saws
>>>> the statistics of tables saw injuries
>>>> more and more safety features
>>>> while insurance and liability costs can only go up
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
>>>> fewer and fewer people want to use them
>>>>
>>>> i will always have one i think but
>>>>
>>>> cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
>>>> water jets and ultrasonic cutting
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
>>>> shop
>>>>
>>>> i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due
>>>> to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing
>>>> for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> consolidation will be first and we see that already
>>>> then there will be fewer models available
>>>> then there will be fewer brands
>>>> then it will become a niche
>>>> then the prices will rise
>>>> then alternatives will look even better
>>>>
>>>
>>> CNC is already in the affordable range. It's just not particularly well
>>> suited to the tasks the table saw can do. It will take me more time to
>>> position and tie down the board on the CNC machine and enter G0 Y10.5,
>>> zero coordinates, G0 X48 than it will to position the fence and make my
>>> cut.
>>>
>>> Plus, getting an exact width like you can when you cut multiple pieces
>>> on
>>> the table saw without moving the fence is harder. You have to deal with
>>> positioning the boards on the CNC bed exactly in the same place, and
>>> that's harder to do. (Even stops sometimes give more than you'd like.)
>>>
>>> CNC will be an addition to the shop, but all it will be a replacement
>>> for
>>> is template routing. You might be able to do some cool joinery too. I
>>> used my little Taig for finger joints and finished up with a chisel.
>>>
>>> Puckdropper
>>
>>
>> I tend to agree. I tend more towards metal working than wood working,
>> but
>> the same principle applies. I've got three drill presses and two mill
>> drills in the shop. I've also got 4 CNC mills and parts for more along
>> with
>> one small CNC wood router. I use the manual machines every day, and have
>> no
>> plans to get rid of any of them except maybe to replace them with a
>> better
>> quality unit. And if I had a CNC lathe I wouldn't get rid of my manual
>> lathes. Some things are just so much faster to setup and whip it out on
>> a
>> manual machine.
>>
>> As to stops moving.... well that happens on any machine. I've seen
>> table
>> saw fences slowly walk across the table a little bit each time a ham
>> handed
>> helper slammed a sheet of ply up against it, and the stops on most miter
>> saw
>> stands I've used are a joke. They are more of a "slow down" than a stop.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Bob, what part of the country are you from?
> Me Central / Western NJ, right near PA.
>
Yuma, Az
"woodchucker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/16/2017 5:57 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>> "woodchucker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> On 2/16/2017 5:13 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>>> "Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> firmware and lawsuits
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the perception of the danger of tables saws
>>>>>> the statistics of tables saw injuries
>>>>>> more and more safety features
>>>>>> while insurance and liability costs can only go up
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
>>>>>> fewer and fewer people want to use them
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i will always have one i think but
>>>>>>
>>>>>> cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
>>>>>> water jets and ultrasonic cutting
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
>>>>>> shop
>>>>>>
>>>>>> i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due
>>>>>> to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing
>>>>>> for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> consolidation will be first and we see that already
>>>>>> then there will be fewer models available
>>>>>> then there will be fewer brands
>>>>>> then it will become a niche
>>>>>> then the prices will rise
>>>>>> then alternatives will look even better
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> CNC is already in the affordable range. It's just not particularly
>>>>> well
>>>>> suited to the tasks the table saw can do. It will take me more time
>>>>> to
>>>>> position and tie down the board on the CNC machine and enter G0 Y10.5,
>>>>> zero coordinates, G0 X48 than it will to position the fence and make
>>>>> my
>>>>> cut.
>>>>>
>>>>> Plus, getting an exact width like you can when you cut multiple pieces
>>>>> on
>>>>> the table saw without moving the fence is harder. You have to deal
>>>>> with
>>>>> positioning the boards on the CNC bed exactly in the same place, and
>>>>> that's harder to do. (Even stops sometimes give more than you'd
>>>>> like.)
>>>>>
>>>>> CNC will be an addition to the shop, but all it will be a replacement
>>>>> for
>>>>> is template routing. You might be able to do some cool joinery too.
>>>>> I
>>>>> used my little Taig for finger joints and finished up with a chisel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Puckdropper
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I tend to agree. I tend more towards metal working than wood working,
>>>> but
>>>> the same principle applies. I've got three drill presses and two mill
>>>> drills in the shop. I've also got 4 CNC mills and parts for more along
>>>> with
>>>> one small CNC wood router. I use the manual machines every day, and
>>>> have
>>>> no
>>>> plans to get rid of any of them except maybe to replace them with a
>>>> better
>>>> quality unit. And if I had a CNC lathe I wouldn't get rid of my manual
>>>> lathes. Some things are just so much faster to setup and whip it out
>>>> on
>>>> a
>>>> manual machine.
>>>>
>>>> As to stops moving.... well that happens on any machine. I've seen
>>>> table
>>>> saw fences slowly walk across the table a little bit each time a ham
>>>> handed
>>>> helper slammed a sheet of ply up against it, and the stops on most
>>>> miter
>>>> saw
>>>> stands I've used are a joke. They are more of a "slow down" than a
>>>> stop.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Bob, what part of the country are you from?
>>> Me Central / Western NJ, right near PA.
>>>
>>
>> Yuma, Az
>>
>>
>>
>
> Equipment stays nice and dry , not a lot of issues with humidity. I was
> going to say when you get rid of a mill to let me know, but too far to
> haul it back..
>
>
> --
> Jeff
Too bad. I've got an old RF-30 and a smaller mill drill I've been thinking
of getting rid of and picking up a G0704 or BF20L to replace them along with
another drill press or three.
On 2/16/2017 5:57 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> "woodchucker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 2/16/2017 5:13 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>> "Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> firmware and lawsuits
>>>>>
>>>>> the perception of the danger of tables saws
>>>>> the statistics of tables saw injuries
>>>>> more and more safety features
>>>>> while insurance and liability costs can only go up
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
>>>>> fewer and fewer people want to use them
>>>>>
>>>>> i will always have one i think but
>>>>>
>>>>> cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
>>>>> water jets and ultrasonic cutting
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
>>>>> shop
>>>>>
>>>>> i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due
>>>>> to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing
>>>>> for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> consolidation will be first and we see that already
>>>>> then there will be fewer models available
>>>>> then there will be fewer brands
>>>>> then it will become a niche
>>>>> then the prices will rise
>>>>> then alternatives will look even better
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> CNC is already in the affordable range. It's just not particularly well
>>>> suited to the tasks the table saw can do. It will take me more time to
>>>> position and tie down the board on the CNC machine and enter G0 Y10.5,
>>>> zero coordinates, G0 X48 than it will to position the fence and make my
>>>> cut.
>>>>
>>>> Plus, getting an exact width like you can when you cut multiple pieces
>>>> on
>>>> the table saw without moving the fence is harder. You have to deal with
>>>> positioning the boards on the CNC bed exactly in the same place, and
>>>> that's harder to do. (Even stops sometimes give more than you'd like.)
>>>>
>>>> CNC will be an addition to the shop, but all it will be a replacement
>>>> for
>>>> is template routing. You might be able to do some cool joinery too. I
>>>> used my little Taig for finger joints and finished up with a chisel.
>>>>
>>>> Puckdropper
>>>
>>>
>>> I tend to agree. I tend more towards metal working than wood working,
>>> but
>>> the same principle applies. I've got three drill presses and two mill
>>> drills in the shop. I've also got 4 CNC mills and parts for more along
>>> with
>>> one small CNC wood router. I use the manual machines every day, and have
>>> no
>>> plans to get rid of any of them except maybe to replace them with a
>>> better
>>> quality unit. And if I had a CNC lathe I wouldn't get rid of my manual
>>> lathes. Some things are just so much faster to setup and whip it out on
>>> a
>>> manual machine.
>>>
>>> As to stops moving.... well that happens on any machine. I've seen
>>> table
>>> saw fences slowly walk across the table a little bit each time a ham
>>> handed
>>> helper slammed a sheet of ply up against it, and the stops on most miter
>>> saw
>>> stands I've used are a joke. They are more of a "slow down" than a stop.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Bob, what part of the country are you from?
>> Me Central / Western NJ, right near PA.
>>
>
> Yuma, Az
>
>
>
Equipment stays nice and dry , not a lot of issues with humidity. I was
going to say when you get rid of a mill to let me know, but too far to
haul it back..
--
Jeff
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
On 2/15/2017 10:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> firmware and lawsuits
>>
>> the perception of the danger of tables saws
>> the statistics of tables saw injuries
>> more and more safety features
>> while insurance and liability costs can only go up
>>
>>
>> seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
>> fewer and fewer people want to use them
>>
>> i will always have one i think but
>>
>> cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water
>> jets and ultrasonic cutting
>>
>>
>> how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop
>>
>> i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
>> market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more
>> streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
>>
>>
>> consolidation will be first and we see that already
>> then there will be fewer models available
>> then there will be fewer brands
>> then it will become a niche
>> then the prices will rise
>> then alternatives will look even better
>
> Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp.
>
Nothing in his message is nuts, nor wimpy? Do you think Leon is wimpy
because he has a Saw Stop?
I think you're nuts and have some bazaar attraction to the Comet..
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
On 2/19/2017 11:08 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 2/15/2017 10:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> firmware and lawsuits
>>>
>>> the perception of the danger of tables saws
>>> the statistics of tables saw injuries
>>> more and more safety features
>>> while insurance and liability costs can only go up
>>>
>>>
>>> seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
>>> fewer and fewer people want to use them
>>>
>>> i will always have one i think but
>>>
>>> cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
>>> water
>>> jets and ultrasonic cutting
>>>
>>>
>>> how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
>>> shop
>>>
>>> i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
>>> market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for
>>> more
>>> streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
>>>
>>>
>>> consolidation will be first and we see that already
>>> then there will be fewer models available
>>> then there will be fewer brands
>>> then it will become a niche
>>> then the prices will rise
>>> then alternatives will look even better
>>
>> Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp.
>>
> Nothing in his message is nuts, nor wimpy? Do you think Leon is wimpy
> because he has a Saw Stop?
>
> I think you're nuts and have some bazaar attraction to the Comet..
>
I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table
saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little
knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more
computer control tool.
Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have
been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation.
As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is
the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are
very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of
the average wood worker.
Could some one provide a definition of CNC as has been used in this thread?
On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 20:15:52 -0500
[email protected] wrote:
> I don't expect to see the table saw obsolete in my lifetime - but I
there is a trend in the direction
for a wood shop with employees a cnc would look really good
cnc lowers the chance of injury dramatically
shop injuries are tramatic experience for everyone not just the
injured employee
On 2/19/2017 7:19 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Feb 2017 11:08:52 -0500, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 2/15/2017 10:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Wed, 15 Feb 2017 16:07:50 -0800, Electric Comet
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> firmware and lawsuits
>>>>
>>>> the perception of the danger of tables saws
>>>> the statistics of tables saw injuries
>>>> more and more safety features
>>>> while insurance and liability costs can only go up
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
>>>> fewer and fewer people want to use them
>>>>
>>>> i will always have one i think but
>>>>
>>>> cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like water
>>>> jets and ultrasonic cutting
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the shop
>>>>
>>>> i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due to
>>>> market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing for more
>>>> streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> consolidation will be first and we see that already
>>>> then there will be fewer models available
>>>> then there will be fewer brands
>>>> then it will become a niche
>>>> then the prices will rise
>>>> then alternatives will look even better
>>>
>>> Now I know you're nuts. ...and a wimp.
>>>
>> Nothing in his message is nuts, nor wimpy? Do you think Leon is wimpy
>> because he has a Saw Stop?
>
> I know you're not very bright but you really don't have to prov it.
>>
>> I think you're nuts and have some bazaar attraction to the Comet..
>
> If everyone ignores him, I'm game too.
>
(Posted at end of numerous lines of extraneous text to conform to
ignorance level of previous poster[s])
If everyone ignores him, the newsgroup will practically disappear. If
they ignore you, practically no change.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
On 2/21/2017 6:27 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
> F Murtz <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Spalted Walt wrote:
>>> Keith Nuttle <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table
>>>> saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little
>>>> knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more
>>>> computer control tool.
>>>>
>>>> Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have
>>>> been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation.
>>>>
>>>> As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is
>>>> the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are
>>>> very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of
>>>> the average wood worker.
>>>
>>> Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the 6040:
>>>
>>> http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo
>>>
>>> I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal.
>>>
>>> I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a
>>> parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from
>>> here:
>>> http://www.machsupport.com/
>>> http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/
>>> http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/
>>>
>>> He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been
>>> collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-)
>>>
>> And how does it handle an 8x4 foot sheet of ply which a few hundred
>> dollar table saw can.
>
> About as well as your "few hundred dollar" table saw can handle these
> tasks:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR0wpgL8Z9g
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po4NB8kPodw
>
> What's your point?
>
The average woodworker is more in likely to run into the need cut a 4' X
8' piece of ply wood than to have a need for a machine to cut the
complicated cuts shown in the videos.
On 2/16/2017 5:13 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
> "Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>>
>>> firmware and lawsuits
>>>
>>> the perception of the danger of tables saws
>>> the statistics of tables saw injuries
>>> more and more safety features
>>> while insurance and liability costs can only go up
>>>
>>>
>>> seems to lead to the conclusion that they are on the way out
>>> fewer and fewer people want to use them
>>>
>>> i will always have one i think but
>>>
>>> cnc is moving pretty fast and now there are other technologies like
>>> water jets and ultrasonic cutting
>>>
>>>
>>> how long until table saws just stop becoming an integral part of the
>>> shop
>>>
>>> i give it 15 years or less as cnc moves into the affordable range due
>>> to market saturation and more used machines and cad and cam allowing
>>> for more streamlined manufacturing of the parts for cnc
>>>
>>>
>>> consolidation will be first and we see that already
>>> then there will be fewer models available
>>> then there will be fewer brands
>>> then it will become a niche
>>> then the prices will rise
>>> then alternatives will look even better
>>>
>>
>> CNC is already in the affordable range. It's just not particularly well
>> suited to the tasks the table saw can do. It will take me more time to
>> position and tie down the board on the CNC machine and enter G0 Y10.5,
>> zero coordinates, G0 X48 than it will to position the fence and make my
>> cut.
>>
>> Plus, getting an exact width like you can when you cut multiple pieces on
>> the table saw without moving the fence is harder. You have to deal with
>> positioning the boards on the CNC bed exactly in the same place, and
>> that's harder to do. (Even stops sometimes give more than you'd like.)
>>
>> CNC will be an addition to the shop, but all it will be a replacement for
>> is template routing. You might be able to do some cool joinery too. I
>> used my little Taig for finger joints and finished up with a chisel.
>>
>> Puckdropper
>
>
> I tend to agree. I tend more towards metal working than wood working, but
> the same principle applies. I've got three drill presses and two mill
> drills in the shop. I've also got 4 CNC mills and parts for more along with
> one small CNC wood router. I use the manual machines every day, and have no
> plans to get rid of any of them except maybe to replace them with a better
> quality unit. And if I had a CNC lathe I wouldn't get rid of my manual
> lathes. Some things are just so much faster to setup and whip it out on a
> manual machine.
>
> As to stops moving.... well that happens on any machine. I've seen table
> saw fences slowly walk across the table a little bit each time a ham handed
> helper slammed a sheet of ply up against it, and the stops on most miter saw
> stands I've used are a joke. They are more of a "slow down" than a stop.
>
>
>
>
>
Bob, what part of the country are you from?
Me Central / Western NJ, right near PA.
--
Jeff
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
F Murtz <[email protected]> wrote:
> Spalted Walt wrote:
> > Keith Nuttle <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table
> >> saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little
> >> knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more
> >> computer control tool.
> >>
> >> Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have
> >> been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation.
> >>
> >> As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is
> >> the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are
> >> very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of
> >> the average wood worker.
> >
> > Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the 6040:
> >
> > http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo
> >
> > I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal.
> >
> > I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a
> > parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from
> > here:
> > http://www.machsupport.com/
> > http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/
> > http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/
> >
> > He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been
> > collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-)
> >
> And how does it handle an 8x4 foot sheet of ply which a few hundred
> dollar table saw can.
About as well as your "few hundred dollar" table saw can handle these
tasks:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR0wpgL8Z9g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po4NB8kPodw
What's your point?
knuttle <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/21/2017 6:27 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
> > F Murtz <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Spalted Walt wrote:
> >>> Keith Nuttle <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I have been following this thread and commented early on about a table
> >>>> saw. My comments were based strictly on the table saw, with little
> >>>> knowledge of CNC except the perception it was expensive, and more
> >>>> computer control tool.
> >>>>
> >>>> Today I searched CNC and was shocked at the price, so think I may have
> >>>> been mistaken about the actual meaning of the abbreviation.
> >>>>
> >>>> As I found in my search CNC means "Computer Numeric Control" which is
> >>>> the language of an automated system of manufacturing. These things are
> >>>> very expensive, and if this definition is correct out of the budget of
> >>>> the average wood worker.
> >>>
> >>> Probably the most popular starter 'size" CNC for the hobbyist is the 6040:
> >>>
> >>> http://ebay.to/2m1xMFo
> >>>
> >>> I believe _most_ 6040's will rout/engrave both wood and thin metal.
> >>>
> >>> I helped a friend setup one a few years ago. We used an old PC with a
> >>> parallel port (LPT) running Windows XP, installed Mach3 software from
> >>> here:
> >>> http://www.machsupport.com/
> >>> http://www.machsupport.com/software/mach3/
> >>> http://www.machsupport.com/licensing/
> >>>
> >>> He quickly got frustrated trying to learn G-code and his CNC has been
> >>> collecting dust in is shop ever since. ;-)
> >>>
> >> And how does it handle an 8x4 foot sheet of ply which a few hundred
> >> dollar table saw can.
> >
> > About as well as your "few hundred dollar" table saw can handle these
> > tasks:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR0wpgL8Z9g
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po4NB8kPodw
> >
> > What's your point?
> >
> The average woodworker is more in likely to run into the need cut a 4' X
> 8' piece of ply wood than to have a need for a machine to cut the
> complicated cuts shown in the videos.
I Agree.