As to 1) header and 2) jack studs.
I want to widen a 4' wide doorway, to 55" wide.... on a 6" support wall (in=
the interior, back end of my garage). I constructed the original doorway =
framing with 4X6 king studs and installed two 2X6 jack studs on each side o=
f the doorway. I suppose two jacks studs on each side is overkill, but I =
often over-build, as that, since I am not an expert (it passed Metro-Code i=
nspection, so that's good enough for me). The header is a 6X6.
I have a (salvaged) 6X12 header, 7' long. I thought to install this (shor=
tened) larger header. Is a 6X6 header sufficient for the 55" span or does=
it really need to be replaced with a larger header? If 6X6 is sufficient,=
then I won't have to trim the cripple studs, above.
Other info:
The ceiling joists above this door, which is floor joists for upstairs, are=
2x6s, 16" on center. To date, there is no evidence of the present 6X6 he=
ader being insufficient. On one side of the doorway wall, 10' from the do=
orway, is a 6X12 beam supporting the ceiling. On the other side of the do=
orway, 12' away, is a **6" exterior (support) wall. The concrete footings =
are 2'X2' and the slab is 6", i.e., no foundation failure, anywhere.
**On this 6" exterior wall is another 4' wide doorway. I will be, similar=
ly, widening this doorway, also, later. At the moment, I don't recall, ex=
actly, its framing/rough construction (i.e., header & jack studs). The roo=
f profile above this wall is a gable roof.
Also, do I really need 2 jack studs on each side of the doorway, for this a=
dditional span? If I can eliminate 1 or 2 of the present jacks studs, this=
will allow less work of modifying other aspects of the rough framing, as w=
ell as the interior wall's finishing, etc.
Thanks.
Sonny
On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 6:56:24 PM UTC-6, John Grossbohlin wrote=
:
Yeah, John, without citing your recommendations, sizing up the general thou=
ghts, I best not skimp with this remodel. I was hoping to avoid some work=
.
The drywall isn't a problem... it's the 1/2" ply backing, nailed every 4" o=
r so. I'm getting sick of pulling all these nails (using a Cresent nail pu=
ller). It's difficult, for me, working overhead, that way. =20
On one side of the doorway is a light switch and outlet, which restricts pl=
acement of repositioned king stud to 3" further to that side, if I move it =
at all. On the other side, the doorways's 4X6 king stud can be moved abou=
t 5", before butting against the next stud.
My salvaged header is engineered, a cutoff from a previous job. Once I pre=
p for installation, I'll get a nephew to help lift it in place.
This job is for installing these new doors: https://www.flickr.com/photos/=
43836144@N04/31249428914/in/photostream
The double doors that were originally in this doorway will be modified (wid=
ened) to be installed on the exterior wall. Presently, this is the door t=
hat's on that exterior wall: https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/744=
7111346/in/photostream
Sonny
On Friday, February 17, 2017 at 9:44:51 PM UTC-6, [email protected] wrote:
> Sonny - since you didn't note where you are, here are tables that let you=
know how your structure should be framed if you have snow loads on the 2nd=
story roof. Note too, that it takes all kinds of conditions into consider=
ation so I would think you would easily find what you need in the form.
>=20
> http://www.southernpine.com/app/uploads/SS_7-12L.pdf
Thanks Robert. No snow, here, in Lafayette, La. I finally got a call ba=
ck from MetroCode. A 6X6 header is okay for my increased span, and I thoug=
ht to use the 6X12 header on the exterior wall.... And since I have to make=
a new header for the interior wall, I've made a 6X10. =20
For the scenario, there was no way to saw many of the ply nails, as John sa=
id. I was able to saw the nails near the edges. Once the framing was expo=
sed, I surmised, installing a larger header might not be so difficult, afte=
r all, hence going with a 6X10 replacement for the interior.
I've moved one king stud over and installed the jack stud.... left in pic.=
=20
https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/32816831172/in/dateposted-public=
/
My rough space is not quite large enough for the door frame, unless I settl=
e with using 3/8" door jams. I'll have to move the other king & jack stud,=
on the light switch & outlet side, which means more nail cutting and ply t=
rimming. Hope to get that done today.
Sonny
"Sonny" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>On Wednesday, February 15, 2017 at 6:56:24 PM UTC-6, John Grossbohlin
>wrote:
>Yeah, John, without citing your recommendations, sizing up the general
>thoughts, I best not skimp with this remodel. I was hoping to avoid some
>work.
>The drywall isn't a problem... it's the 1/2" ply backing, nailed every 4"
>or so. I'm getting sick of pulling all these nails (using a Cresent nail
>puller). It's difficult, for me, >working overhead, that way.
>On one side of the doorway is a light switch and outlet, which restricts
>placement of repositioned king stud to 3" further to that side, if I move
>it at all. On the other side, >the doorways's 4X6 king stud can be moved
>about 5", before butting against the next stud.
>My salvaged header is engineered, a cutoff from a previous job. Once I
>prep for installation, I'll get a nephew to help lift it in place.
>This job is for installing these new doors:
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/31249428914/in/photostream
>The double doors that were originally in this doorway will be modified
>(widened) to be installed on the exterior wall. Presently, this is the
>door that's on that exterior >wall:
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/7447111346/in/photostream
Sonny,
From what you describe, me personally, I'd approach it as I described. This
is one of those cases where trying to not disturb things makes the job so
much more difficult. Given that you can work from the "outside" cut all
those blasted nails off with a reciprocating saw rather than pull them...
the plywood backing will facilitate that as you don't have to worry about
blowing through the drywall. Use a long blade, either metal cutting or demo
type. By taking out studs and putting in a longer header you can put the
door wherever you want in the opening and then open up the inside ply/rock
to match the framing. Since you have ply backing nailing it to the jack
studs next to the door will give it adequate support to hang the doors. The
electrical sounds pretty straight forward.
John
On Saturday, February 18, 2017 at 9:20:20 AM UTC-6, Sonny wrote:
=20
> Thanks Robert. No snow, here, in Lafayette, La. I finally got a call =
back from MetroCode. A 6X6 header is okay for my increased span, and I tho=
ught to use the 6X12 header on the exterior wall.... And since I have to ma=
ke a new header for the interior wall, I've made a 6X10. =20
>
Just a couple more thoughts. I often design and write out framing specs, e=
specially for repair/remodeling. MetroCode (assuming that is your local co=
de compliance) only verifies that minimal code compliance issues are satisf=
ied. They are not engineers, framers, contractors, and in most cases never=
have been. They simply make sure that your specs match the ones in their =
reference books. For OPTIMAL performance, follow your gut and make the hea=
rer two sizes larger, just like you planned. You should know that the spec=
s observed by the code inspectors for beams and headers only take into cons=
ideration compressive live and dead loads, not for lateral loads that can b=
e a consideration on certain perimeter walls. In other words, good call on=
your part.
Wood is cheap. Structure repair is not. When I am designing or writing sp=
ecs, when there is the slightest question of structural integrity I always =
err on the side of "one size larger" header than needed.
=20
> I've moved one king stud over and installed the jack stud.... left in pic=
.=20
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/32816831172/in/dateposted-publ=
ic/
> My rough space is not quite large enough for the door frame, unless I set=
tle with using 3/8" door jams. I'll have to move the other king & jack stu=
d, on the light switch & outlet side, which means more nail cutting and ply=
trimming. Hope to get that done today.
>
Looking at the pic, and looking at your post, you are calling this out as a=
doorway. But seeing more walls on the other side of your work, is this ac=
tually a cased opening (no door, just a finished opening)?
Robert
"Sonny" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>On Friday, February 17, 2017 at 9:44:51 PM UTC-6, [email protected] wrote:
>> Sonny - since you didn't note where you are, here are tables that let you
>> know how your structure should be framed if you have snow loads on the
>> 2nd story roof. Note >too, that it takes all kinds of conditions into
>> consideration so I would think you would easily find what you need in the
>> form.
>>
>> http://www.southernpine.com/app/uploads/SS_7-12L.pdf
>Thanks Robert. No snow, here, in Lafayette, La. I finally got a call
>back from MetroCode. A 6X6 header is okay for my increased span, and I
>thought to use the 6X12 >header on the exterior wall.... And since I have
>to make a new header for the interior wall, I've made a 6X10.
>For the scenario, there was no way to saw many of the ply nails, as John
>said. I was able to saw the nails near the edges. Once the framing was
>exposed, I surmised, >installing a larger header might not be so difficult,
>after all, hence going with a 6X10 replacement for the interior.
>I've moved one king stud over and installed the jack stud.... left in pic.
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/32816831172/in/dateposted-public/
>My rough space is not quite large enough for the door frame, unless I
>settle with using 3/8" door jams. I'll have to move the other king & jack
>stud, on the light switch & >outlet side, which means more nail cutting and
>ply trimming. Hope to get that done today.
Sonny
The photo is helpful to see the constraints... I'm late in seeing this but
it looks like moving the other studs was (is?) your best move.
RE sawing the nails, I use a 12" blade for that kind of work and bend it as
needed to reach the nails. But even doing that I can see where it would be
tough to reach some of the nails due to the stud spacing.
Please do post some more photos as things progress!
John
"Sonny" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>As to 1) header and 2) jack studs.
>I want to widen a 4' wide doorway, to 55" wide.... on a 6" support wall (in
>the interior, back end of my garage). I constructed the original doorway
>framing with 4X6 king >studs and installed two 2X6 jack studs on each side
>of the doorway. I suppose two jacks studs on each side is overkill, but I
>often over-build, as that, since I am not an >expert (it passed Metro-Code
>inspection, so that's good enough for me). The header is a 6X6.
>I have a (salvaged) 6X12 header, 7' long. I thought to install this
>(shortened) larger header. Is a 6X6 header sufficient for the 55" span or
>does it really need to be >replaced with a larger header? If 6X6 is
>sufficient, then I won't have to trim the cripple studs, above.
Assuming you have studs on 16" centers; don't actually have doors, just an
opening; and want to use the materials on hand:
With temporary supports for the floor joists above, I'd remove the existing
header, cripples, jack studs, and any full studs such that you have an open
span roughly 62.5"/78.5" wide (i.e., the space between two studs on 16"
centers with 2 or 3 studs removed between them). A tiger saw can be used to
cut all the nails/screws for the interior drywall, jack studs and cripples.
I'd use the 6x12 as a header and put it all the way up against the top
plate. Put a jack stud on each end. Then position a couple jack studs to
locate the door opening in the space where you want it. Lastly a put a
nailer in above the door (parallel to header) for your drywall--all it's
doing is holding the drywall so no real need for cripples above it. An
advantage of using the 6x12 is it is already aged and dried so shrinkage
isn't a problem.
That should meet your "over built" criteria and is less tedious than trying
to work around the existing cripples (trimming and/or re-nailing them).
A similar approach can be used with the other door opening with at least
2x8s for the header. Reclaimed wood would be good here too to avoid the
shrinkage problem.
In article <CcadnYkpz_wqJjTFnZ2dnUU7-
[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> "Sonny" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> >On Friday, February 17, 2017 at 9:44:51 PM UTC-6, [email protected] wrote:
> >> Sonny - since you didn't note where you are, here are tables that let you
> >> know how your structure should be framed if you have snow loads on the
> >> 2nd story roof. Note >too, that it takes all kinds of conditions into
> >> consideration so I would think you would easily find what you need in the
> >> form.
> >>
> >> http://www.southernpine.com/app/uploads/SS_7-12L.pdf
>
> >Thanks Robert. No snow, here, in Lafayette, La. I finally got a call
> >back from MetroCode. A 6X6 header is okay for my increased span, and I
> >thought to use the 6X12 >header on the exterior wall.... And since I have
> >to make a new header for the interior wall, I've made a 6X10.
>
> >For the scenario, there was no way to saw many of the ply nails, as John
> >said. I was able to saw the nails near the edges. Once the framing was
> >exposed, I surmised, >installing a larger header might not be so difficult,
> >after all, hence going with a 6X10 replacement for the interior.
>
> >I've moved one king stud over and installed the jack stud.... left in pic.
> >https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/32816831172/in/dateposted-public/
> >My rough space is not quite large enough for the door frame, unless I
> >settle with using 3/8" door jams. I'll have to move the other king & jack
> >stud, on the light switch & >outlet side, which means more nail cutting and
> >ply trimming. Hope to get that done today.
>
> Sonny
>
> The photo is helpful to see the constraints... I'm late in seeing this but
> it looks like moving the other studs was (is?) your best move.
>
> RE sawing the nails, I use a 12" blade for that kind of work and bend it as
> needed to reach the nails. But even doing that I can see where it would be
> tough to reach some of the nails due to the stud spacing.
>
> Please do post some more photos as things progress!
>
> John
Just a note with regard to sawing nails, I find
that an oscillating tool (Fein Multimaster and
clones) works very nicely for this. Just make
sure that you have one of the metal-cutting
blades on it--a nail will chew up a wood cutting
blade real good. They won't touch hardened
nails or hardened screws though.
The real benefits are that the blades are long
enough to get behind anything up to a 4X (plunge
depth 2 inches--for 4x you have to go from both
sides), the direction from which they extend
from the tool can be adusted through a wide
range, the blades are very thin so they often
fit into the crack without doing more than
cosmetic damage, and they are designed to cut
flush.
Sonny - since you didn't note where you are, here are tables that let you k=
now how your structure should be framed if you have snow loads on the 2nd s=
tory roof. Note too, that it takes all kinds of conditions into considerat=
ion so I would think you would easily find what you need in the form.
http://www.southernpine.com/app/uploads/SS_7-12L.pdf
According to that form (which is commonly used) based on a 6' opening (alwa=
ys round up for length) using #2 SYP for headers, you should have a sandwic=
h beam of 2-2X10s to rest your upper structure on. This is a good chart as=
it has drawings to assist you to find exactly what you need. Somewhere in=
there it even has details on the mechanical fastening of the members to on=
e another to build the beam. In your case, you have what you need with tha=
t monster beam hands down. =20
I would go 110% with John G's assessment of getting the structure ready to =
install the new header and supports. He described exactly the way I do it =
myself, and I am known to jack up what I need, drill a hole big enough to g=
et my recip saw blade in the right area and saw out the unneeded material. =
I saw through nails, wood, sheathing, etc.... all of it and let the discon=
nected parts fall away. What a time saver. You can also make your support=
s about 1/8 to 1/4" long to support the structure, that way you can slip yo=
ur replacement supports in the wall framing and ease the ceiling/wall on to=
them instead of cutting them to exact length and pounding them in with a s=
ledge.
Robert
On Sunday, February 19, 2017 at 2:39:48 PM UTC-6, [email protected] wrote:
I was suppose to post this Sunday, but forgot to click the post button. B=
een away, since then.
> Looking at the pic, and looking at your post, you are calling this out as=
a doorway. But seeing more walls on the other side of your work, is this =
actually a cased opening (no door, just a finished opening)?
The background, in the pic is my garage. I have a 12X20 room behind/attac=
hed to the garage, all under the same roof. Probably some of the stuff you=
see in the garage are the 6X12 beams spanning the garage.
The doorway, between the garage and the room (originally my hand tool shop)=
originally had 24" wide double doors. I'm replacing them with these, 27"=
wide:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/31249428914/in/photostream
I'll make another set of double doors for the back exit, the exterior wall =
doorway. =20
I got the other king and jacks studs moved. Moved one of the light switche=
s to the room side of the wall... wired it wrong and tripped a breaker. To=
ok 1.5 hours to figure out what was wrong. I still need to replace the ply=
. While the power was down, I replaced the T-12 light fixture (no longer w=
orked) under the stairway (storage area adjacent to this doorway, garage si=
de).
In the meantime, I got 2 of the 5 hickory logs delivered to the mill. Hop=
e the get the others delivered and all milled this week.
Sonny
On 2/15/17 1:16 PM, Sonny wrote:
> As to 1) header and 2) jack studs.
>
> I want to widen a 4' wide doorway, to 55" wide.... on a 6" support
> wall (in the interior, back end of my garage). I constructed the
> original doorway framing with 4X6 king studs and installed two 2X6
> jack studs on each side of the doorway. I suppose two jacks studs
> on each side is overkill, but I often over-build, as that, since I am
> not an expert (it passed Metro-Code inspection, so that's good enough
> for me). The header is a 6X6.
>
> I have a (salvaged) 6X12 header, 7' long. I thought to install this
> (shortened) larger header. Is a 6X6 header sufficient for the 55"
> span or does it really need to be replaced with a larger header? If
> 6X6 is sufficient, then I won't have to trim the cripple studs,
> above.
>
> Other info: The ceiling joists above this door, which is floor joists
> for upstairs, are 2x6s, 16" on center. To date, there is no
> evidence of the present 6X6 header being insufficient. On one side
> of the doorway wall, 10' from the doorway, is a 6X12 beam supporting
> the ceiling. On the other side of the doorway, 12' away, is a **6"
> exterior (support) wall. The concrete footings are 2'X2' and the
> slab is 6", i.e., no foundation failure, anywhere.
>
> **On this 6" exterior wall is another 4' wide doorway. I will be,
> similarly, widening this doorway, also, later. At the moment, I
> don't recall, exactly, its framing/rough construction (i.e., header &
> jack studs). The roof profile above this wall is a gable roof.
>
> Also, do I really need 2 jack studs on each side of the doorway, for
> this additional span? If I can eliminate 1 or 2 of the present jacks
> studs, this will allow less work of modifying other aspects of the
> rough framing, as well as the interior wall's finishing, etc.
>
> Thanks. Sonny
>
I don't think you ever needed two jack studs for a span that short.
The 6" non-engineered lumber headers would concern me.
This is where I would advise you consult an architectural structural
engineer.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply