One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.
Here is a link to a pic:
http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg
I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
been there for many years.
Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
would like to repair the tread.
Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.
So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
tread to span the crack and add support.
To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
job.
Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.
Thanks
"blueman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18"
> longitudinal
> crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be
> that
> these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.
>
> Here is a link to a pic:
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg
>
> I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if
> anyting it
> adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well
> supported and
> gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of
> such
> support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has
> probably
> been there for many years.
>
> Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old
> wood, I
> would like to repair the tread.
>
> Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
> toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the
> entire
> bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.
>
> So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the
> underside of
> the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting
> through the
> plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea
> would be to
> expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath
> the
> tread to span the crack and add support.
>
> To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue
> (either
> polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get
> good
> clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small
> gauge screws
> through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and
> support
> board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the
> stair
> underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster
> repair
> job.
>
> Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get
> advice
> on whether this is a good approach along with any additional
> advice or
> pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better
> suggestions.
>
> Thanks
Good plan, IMHO. When reaching the underside, I'd do as you plan
with the crosspiece and screws. However, I'd dry fit the entire
cross piece, including the screws. Then, I'd remove it and 1)
fill the crack from above with 30 minute epoxy and 2) slather on
Liquid Nails from below before reinstalling the crosspiece and all
screws. I'd leave the screws in place, then repair the plaster.
--
Nonny
ELOQUIDIOT (n) A highly educated, sophisticated,
and articulate person who has absolutely no clue
concerning what they are talking about.
The person is typically a media commentator or politician.
blueman wrote:
>One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18"
>longitudinal
>crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
>these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.
>
>Here is a link to a pic:
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg
>
>I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
>adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported
>and
>gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
>support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has
>probably
>been there for many years.
>
>Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood,
>I
>would like to repair the tread.
<snip>
If you truly mean, "I am not concerned about the visual look of the
crack", then the repair is fairly straight forward.
Using a Fein MultiMaster with a straight blade, plunge completely thru
the tread in the crack, then clean out the crack at least 1/8" wide or
what ever is necessary to remove all damaged tread material.
The width of the cut is not important as long as it is wide enough to
allow the thickened epoxy to freely flow and fill the cut.
On the bottom side of the tread, cover the saw cut with some duct tape
which gets removed later.
Mix up some SLOW epoxy, thickened slightly with micro-balloons, and
pour into crack about 1/4" deep. (Just enough to seal the cut
completely against the duct tape.
Wait 24 hours, then mix up more thickened epoxy and complete filling
the cut proud.
Wait 48 hours, then sand smooth and remove duct tape from bottom.
When the tread returns to compost, the epoxy repair will still be in
service.
If color is important, you can play around with some artists dry
pigments to try and match tread color.
Have fun.
Lew
On Feb 6, 10:36=A0pm, blueman <[email protected]> wrote:
> One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
> crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
> these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.
>
> Here is a link to a pic:
> =A0 =A0 =A0http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg
>
> I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
> adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
> gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
> support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
> been there for many years.
>
> Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
> would like to repair the tread.
>
> Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
> toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
> bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.
>
> So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
> the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
> plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
> expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
> tread to span the crack and add support.
>
> To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
> polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
> clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge scre=
ws
> through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
> board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
> underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
> job.
>
> Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
> on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
> pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.
>
> Thanks
My posting does not address the structural aspect of the problem,
which of course is what needs to be solved first. Others have already
posted good suggesions. I remember a show in which Norm repaired a
gaping hole in a re-used barn board by filling it a two part epoxy
which he tinted black (no attempt to match). You could open up the
crack with a veining bit in your router and fill and sand.
Joe G
From what you have described, plaster and lathe, I wouldn't think the
plaster and lathe is along the bottom of the stair stringers, but
encases some cavity under the stairs. Since you will open that area,
why not finish the interior, there, for storage or other and create an
access door, concealed, maybe, if an obvious door would not complement
the surounding design/decor/trim.
If there is such an area, accessing a tread should not be an issue, in
order to secure the tread easily.
Sonny
On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 04:26:30 -0800 (PST), the infamous Sonny
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>From what you have described, plaster and lathe, I wouldn't think the
>plaster and lathe is along the bottom of the stair stringers, but
C'mon, guys. A lathe is a roundyround tool. Lath is a stick used in
construction.
>encases some cavity under the stairs. Since you will open that area,
>why not finish the interior, there, for storage or other and create an
>access door, concealed, maybe, if an obvious door would not complement
>the surounding design/decor/trim.
I second the additional storage suggestion.
>If there is such an area, accessing a tread should not be an issue, in
>order to secure the tread easily.
For the fix, I'd glue and screw a board to the bottom of the cracked
tread. I'd fastening the board to the front riser under the tread
with a screw, and to the back of the next riser via another board
coming down, also glued.
--
We don't receive wisdom; we must discover it for ourselves
after a journey that no one can take for us or spare us.
-- Marcel Proust
On Sat, 06 Feb 2010 22:36:57 -0500, blueman <[email protected]> wrote:
>One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
>crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
>these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.
>
>Here is a link to a pic:
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg
>
>I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
>adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
>gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
>support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
>been there for many years.
>
>Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
>would like to repair the tread.
>
>Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
>toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
>bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.
>
>So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
>the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
>plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
>expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
>tread to span the crack and add support.
>
>To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
>polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
>clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
>through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
>board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
>underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
>job.
>
>Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
>on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
>pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.
>
>Thanks
An episode of Ask This Old House showed a product (stepped wood pins)
and their associated special drill. I think this is the product:
http://www.craftsmanstudio.com/html_p/X!1000.htm
John
On 2/8/10 10:46 AM, blueman wrote:
> Actually, the area under the stairs is now open with the plaster& lathe
> underside of the stairs closely following the rise of the stairs.
>
If that's the case, and you can get to the underside of this tread,
seems like an easy fix.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
GROVER <[email protected]> writes:
> On Feb 6, 10:36Â pm, blueman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
>> crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
>> these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.
>>
>> Here is a link to a pic:
>> Â Â Â http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg
>>
>> I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
>> adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
>> gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
>> support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
>> been there for many years.
>>
>> Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
>> would like to repair the tread.
>>
>> Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
>> toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
>> bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.
>>
>> So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
>> the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
>> plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
>> expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
>> tread to span the crack and add support.
>>
>> To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
>> polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
>> clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
>> through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
>> board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
>> underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
>> job.
>>
>> Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
>> on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
>> pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.
>>
>> Thanks
>
> My posting does not address the structural aspect of the problem,
> which of course is what needs to be solved first. Others have already
> posted good suggesions. I remember a show in which Norm repaired a
> gaping hole in a re-used barn board by filling it a two part epoxy
> which he tinted black (no attempt to match). You could open up the
> crack with a veining bit in your router and fill and sand.
Interesting idea.
I'm not sure the router approach would work since the crack goes up to
the skirtboard and my (full-size) router probably wouldn't let me get
any closer than 4" or so.
Also, I would be concerned that a routed groove would look to "regular"
and unnatural.
Maybe better for me to use my dremel to clean out the crack while also
letting the "unsteadiness" of my hands keep the look more natural...
Thanks for the suggestion!
"Nonny" <[email protected]> writes:
> "blueman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18"
>> longitudinal
>> crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be
>> that
>> these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.
>>
>> Here is a link to a pic:
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg
>>
>> I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
>> adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported
>> and
>> gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of
>> such
>> support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has
>> probably
>> been there for many years.
>>
>> Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood,
>> I
>> would like to repair the tread.
>>
>> Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
>> toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
>> bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.
>>
>> So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside
>> of
>> the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through
>> the
>> plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be
>> to
>> expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
>> tread to span the crack and add support.
>>
>> To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
>> polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
>> clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge
>> screws
>> through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and
>> support
>> board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the
>> stair
>> underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster
>> repair
>> job.
>>
>> Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get
>> advice
>> on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice
>> or
>> pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.
>>
>> Thanks
>
> Good plan, IMHO. When reaching the underside, I'd do as you plan with
> the crosspiece and screws. However, I'd dry fit the entire cross
> piece, including the screws. Then, I'd remove it and 1) fill the
> crack from above with 30 minute epoxy and
Yes - I was considering filling the crack with epoxy - though I would
probably use West Systems with some filler to get the right viscosity.
Alternatively, maybe the crack would look better to leave natural and
consider it as "character" since I don't think I will get much
structural strength from filling the crack with epoxy given that the
crack seems quite old and weathered meaning that it doesn't seem like it
will draw together tightly to give a good bond. Since much of the force
comes from stepping on the crack, I think the real strength will come
from the supporting piece I plan to place underneath.
> 2) slather on Liquid Nails from below before reinstalling the
> crosspiece and all screws.
Would Liquid Nails be stronger/better than Epoxy or Polyurethane?
I guess it might depend on how flat the bottom of the tread is but just
curious about what would give the best adhesion assuming the bottom of
the tread may be a bit rough.
> I'd leave the screws in place, then repair the plaster.
I doubt I will have enough space to put the scews in from below. So, I
was assuming that I would need to drive the screws through the top
face. If so, I was planning on removing the screws after the repair so
as not to mess up the aesthetics. Although, perhaps I should use
trimhead screws, countersink them and fill the holes with tinted
woodfill of some type...
Can I assume that even if the underside of the tread is rough or a bit
uneven that a well glued and clamped board underneath it will provide
adequate support after the screws are removed?
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> writes:
> blueman wrote:
>
>>One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18"
>>longitudinal
>>crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
>>these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.
>>
>>Here is a link to a pic:
>> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg
>>
>>I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
>>adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported
>>and
>>gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
>>support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has
>>probably
>>been there for many years.
>>
>>Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood,
>>I
>>would like to repair the tread.
> <snip>
>
> If you truly mean, "I am not concerned about the visual look of the
> crack", then the repair is fairly straight forward.
I actually meant I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack
so long as it looks like an authentic crack that comes from "natural"
aging and wear-and-tear. A number of the wide pine boards in some of our
rooms have cracks (though they are well supported by the sub-floor)
which I have been told are considered to be a "plus" rather than a
defect to be repaired.
I'm not sure I am crazy about the look of an obvious epoxy repair on our
front stairs -- though perhaps with tinting and shaping, I could make it
look more natural...
>
> Using a Fein MultiMaster with a straight blade, plunge completely thru
> the tread in the crack, then clean out the crack at least 1/8" wide or
> what ever is necessary to remove all damaged tread material.
Damn I just bought a Harbor Freight variable stool multifunction tool
and I so want to use it so I can validate my tool buying craze to my
SWMBO.
> The width of the cut is not important as long as it is wide enough to
> allow the thickened epoxy to freely flow and fill the cut.
>
> On the bottom side of the tread, cover the saw cut with some duct tape
> which gets removed later.
>
> Mix up some SLOW epoxy, thickened slightly with micro-balloons, and
> pour into crack about 1/4" deep. (Just enough to seal the cut
> completely against the duct tape.
And I love playing with all my West System potions...
> ..
> Have fun.
Yeah, but I think I will have to resist the temptation to do it the fun
way and instead try to make the repair less visible by accessing the
underside of the stairs.... less fun though and I really don't enjoy
ripping out and then replacing plaster-lathe...
Thanks for the suggestions and particularly the epoxy instructions --
they will definitely come in handy on many future repairs...
blueman <[email protected]> writes:
> One of the 12" wide treads on our main staircase has an ~18" longitudinal
> crack in it. As per an earlier thread, the consensus seems to be that
> these treads are 150 yr old heart pine.
>
> Here is a link to a pic:
> http://96.252.37.8:8080/public/1stFlrTread.jpg
>
> I am not concerned about the visual look of the crack (if anyting it
> adds "character") but the area under the crack is not well supported and
> gives a bit when you put weight on it -- in fact, the absence of such
> support may be the proximate cause of the crack. The crack has probably
> been there for many years.
>
> Since replacing the tread is not easily feasible given the old wood, I
> would like to repair the tread.
>
> Now removing the tread would not be easy since 2 balustrades are
> toenailed into the other side of the tread and removing the entire
> bannister and balustrades *seems* to me to be a big job.
>
> So, I was thinking it might be easier for me to access the underside of
> the tread from the alcove underneath the stairway by cutting through the
> plaster and lathe on the underside of the stairway. My idea would be to
> expose enough area so that I could slip another board underneath the
> tread to span the crack and add support.
>
> To secure the support, my thought was to cover it with glue (either
> polyurethane or epoxy). Assuming that I won't be able to get good
> clamping pressure from below, I would run some temporary small gauge screws
> through the face of the tread to temporarily clamp the tread and support
> board together. Alternatively, I could try to expose more of the stair
> underside at the risk of creating more mess and a bigger plaster repair
> job.
>
> Before, I go cutting into the plaster and lathe, I wanted to get advice
> on whether this is a good approach along with any additional advice or
> pointers. Of course, I am open to *any* other better suggestions.
I finally got around to fixing the tread...
I was just about to cut in through the plaster and lathe on the
underside of the tread, when I had second thoughts about the mess and
pain of repairing it all and having to repaint the entire underside
(since the off-white ceiling paint would be almost impossible to match).
So, I decided instead to probe and clean out the crack first. On
probing, I realized the following:
1. The tread over the crack seemed to be supported either by a piece of
subflooring or by a wide stringer
2. I was able to clean out the crack pretty well
2. The tread itself seemed pretty thick
So, I then decided to mix up a batch of my trusty West System epoxy. I
first dropped in a fair bit of loose epoxy which do to its low viscosity
mostly dripped down through the crack -- my hope being that it wouldn't
all be lost but would server to bond the tread better to the stringer
and/or subfloor piece. I then added some colloidal filler and filled the
crack.
This seemed to really solidify the tread and so far is holding well (and
also looks pretty good).
If this repairs doesn't last, I will go back to my original plan of
cutting in from below -- but meanwhile it seems to be working both
physically and cosmetically...
Sonny <[email protected]> writes:
> From what you have described, plaster and lathe, I wouldn't think the
> plaster and lathe is along the bottom of the stair stringers, but
> encases some cavity under the stairs. Since you will open that area,
> why not finish the interior, there, for storage or other and create an
> access door, concealed, maybe, if an obvious door would not complement
> the surounding design/decor/trim.
>
> If there is such an area, accessing a tread should not be an issue, in
> order to secure the tread easily.
Actually, the area under the stairs is now open with the plaster & lathe
underside of the stairs closely following the rise of the stairs.
I have often thought about enclosing the underside to add storage but
the stairs are parallel to a narrow hallway and I am concerned that
closing off the underside may make the space feel more constricted. Not
sure though and will likely consult an architect at some point or draw
it all in sketchup ;)