On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 13:40:00 -0500, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 08/10/2016 12:08 PM, dpb wrote:
>...
>
>> IOW, it's just a fancy way of saying "we glue stuff up and then cut it
>> down to size" without giving any real limitations on what, specifically,
>> is actually done.
>...
>
>And should add, it's _possible_, as in much of the "engineered flooring"
>that they shape the underlying structural form from a secondary wood and
>then laminate the surface with printed pattern to simulate the finish to
>match expensive things like mahogany or the like rather than actually
>having a wood surface, too. Some of these may look just like the real
>thing appearance-wise if they use good-quality images of real wood from
>which to start and high-resolution printing processes. Some, on the
>other hand, make look just like what they are; sorry imitations that
>would only fool somebody who never looked at a real piece of wood with
>any discernment whatsoever (which, of course, is quite a large fraction
>of the buying public anymore).
>
>You'll have to ask and a floor sales rep probably won't know enough to
>be able to really answer the questions and the manufacturer may not be
>willing to say unless you really, really push...
>
>Any manufacturer we might have heard of? Knowing that _might_ give some
>clue altho everything except custom individual stuff these days is
>imported, mostly from China; unfortunately as you're probably aware,
>there's no large national commercial furniture manufacturing left in the
>US an longer, only some small regional shops.
>
>---
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"engineered wood" is wood where the grain of different sections is
oriented in a pattern designed by the engineer to provide the required
strength in the required locations and directions using the least
actual wood required. Often it is like a combination of finger
jointing, block core, and plywood.
Furniture with "engineered wood" components is higher end furniture
than the crap built with "wood product" such as MDF, waferboard, and
compressed sawdust and in some cases actually better than furniture
made with "solid hardwood" which can split and warp (and often does)
Engineered lumber does not crack, split, or warp and is generally
lighter than the crappy "wood pruduct" as well as being much stronger,
and holds fasteners much better..
In some cases the "engineered wood" is baltic ply (aka "russian
birch")
On 8/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gramps' shop wrote:
> Manufacturer of a sofa we are thinking of buying describe the frame as comprised of "Kiln-dried engineered wood and solid wood." Anyone come across KD engineered wood who can enlighten me?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry
>
Engineered hard wood floors are essentially plywood with thick plys.
This may be the new way to say plywood.
On 8/10/2016 3:05 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 08/10/2016 2:59 PM, Leon wrote:
> ...
>
>> Perhaps not. Engineered wood is stronger than solid wood. ...
>
> I'd recast that as "_can be_ as strong as or stronger" rather than
> "is"...depends on what species are used and how it's manufactured.
Yes, I should have mentioned apples to apples, etc.
>
> Yes, structural laminates are stronger than their conventional
> counterparts; doesn't translate 100% to this methinks...
>
> I'm not saying it isn't, just wouldn't go so far as to make the blanket
> statement not knowing the piece, the manufacturer, etc., etc., etc., ...
Yeah....
"Gramps' shop" <[email protected]> writes:
>Manufacturer of a sofa we are thinking of buying describe the frame as comprised of "Kiln-dried engineered wood and solid wood." Anyone come across KD engineered wood who can enlighten me?
>
One kiln dries the wood that is subsequently resawn and laminated to
form the engineered timber.
On 8/10/2016 10:44 AM, Gramps' shop wrote:
> Manufacturer of a sofa we are thinking of buying describe the frame as comprised of "Kiln-dried engineered wood and solid wood." Anyone come across KD engineered wood who can enlighten me?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Larry
>
The best engineered wood is made from kiln dried wood that was cut with
saw blades precision sharpened by experienced machinists. Logs were
harvested using well tuned chain saws on sun filled day.
The more words you use the higher price you can get.
On 08/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gramps' shop wrote:
> Manufacturer of a sofa we are thinking of buying describe the frame
> as comprised of "Kiln-dried engineered wood and solid wood." Anyone
> comeacross KD engineered wood who can enlighten me?
_All_ commercially-produced wood furniture will have kiln-dried lumber
as the start; that's just "marketing-speak" trying to sound like it's
something unique that it isn't.
"Engineered wood" is any of a number of possibilities, most being
various ways of producing larger pieces from smaller, lower cost
alternatives from using solid pieces of the same end size.
IOW, it's just a fancy way of saying "we glue stuff up and then cut it
down to size" without giving any real limitations on what, specifically,
is actually done.
IOW, it's all meaningless other than the fact that it says the piece
isn't all one solid, single piece of wood. In fact, probably it'll be
structural pieces that are glued up with a face layer of the
appearance-selected species that is visible.
From a structural viewpoint, it's quite possible the piece is a strong
or stronger than it would be if solid what with the current technology
of UV-cured glues and all but like everything else whether it actually
is or not will depend on the actual species they do use and more
importantly, how well the producer of the material manufactures it.
That, unfortunately, there's really no way to know other than by whether
the manufacturer is willing to stand behind the piece for more than 90
days and/or end-user satisfaction reports on similar pieces of the same
manufacturer using the same technology and hope it's still the same
supplier and process.
Or, to sum it all up..."who knows?"
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On 2016-08-10 1:08 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 08/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gramps' shop wrote:
>> Manufacturer of a sofa we are thinking of buying describe the frame
>> as comprised of "Kiln-dried engineered wood and solid wood." Anyone
>> comeacross KD engineered wood who can enlighten me?
>
> _All_ commercially-produced wood furniture will have kiln-dried lumber
> as the start; that's just "marketing-speak" trying to sound like it's
> something unique that it isn't.
>
> "Engineered wood" is any of a number of possibilities, most being
> various ways of producing larger pieces from smaller, lower cost
> alternatives from using solid pieces of the same end size.
>
> IOW, it's just a fancy way of saying "we glue stuff up and then cut it
> down to size" without giving any real limitations on what, specifically,
> is actually done.
>
> IOW, it's all meaningless other than the fact that it says the piece
> isn't all one solid, single piece of wood. In fact, probably it'll be
> structural pieces that are glued up with a face layer of the
> appearance-selected species that is visible.
>
> From a structural viewpoint, it's quite possible the piece is a strong
> or stronger than it would be if solid what with the current technology
> of UV-cured glues and all but like everything else whether it actually
> is or not will depend on the actual species they do use and more
> importantly, how well the producer of the material manufactures it.
> That, unfortunately, there's really no way to know other than by whether
> the manufacturer is willing to stand behind the piece for more than 90
> days and/or end-user satisfaction reports on similar pieces of the same
> manufacturer using the same technology and hope it's still the same
> supplier and process.
>
> Or, to sum it all up..."who knows?"
>
Bingo, it is marketing speak, ie. "Baffle them with BS"
--
Froz....
On 08/10/2016 12:08 PM, dpb wrote:
...
> IOW, it's just a fancy way of saying "we glue stuff up and then cut it
> down to size" without giving any real limitations on what, specifically,
> is actually done.
...
And should add, it's _possible_, as in much of the "engineered flooring"
that they shape the underlying structural form from a secondary wood and
then laminate the surface with printed pattern to simulate the finish to
match expensive things like mahogany or the like rather than actually
having a wood surface, too. Some of these may look just like the real
thing appearance-wise if they use good-quality images of real wood from
which to start and high-resolution printing processes. Some, on the
other hand, make look just like what they are; sorry imitations that
would only fool somebody who never looked at a real piece of wood with
any discernment whatsoever (which, of course, is quite a large fraction
of the buying public anymore).
You'll have to ask and a floor sales rep probably won't know enough to
be able to really answer the questions and the manufacturer may not be
willing to say unless you really, really push...
Any manufacturer we might have heard of? Knowing that _might_ give some
clue altho everything except custom individual stuff these days is
imported, mostly from China; unfortunately as you're probably aware,
there's no large national commercial furniture manufacturing left in the
US an longer, only some small regional shops.
---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus
On 08/10/2016 2:59 PM, Leon wrote:
...
> Perhaps not. Engineered wood is stronger than solid wood. ...
I'd recast that as "_can be_ as strong as or stronger" rather than
"is"...depends on what species are used and how it's manufactured.
Yes, structural laminates are stronger than their conventional
counterparts; doesn't translate 100% to this methinks...
I'm not saying it isn't, just wouldn't go so far as to make the blanket
statement not knowing the piece, the manufacturer, etc., etc., etc., ...
--
---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus
On 08/10/2016 4:04 PM, [email protected] wrote:
...
> "engineered wood" is wood where the grain of different sections is
> oriented in a pattern designed by the engineer to provide the required
> strength in the required locations and directions using the least
> actual wood required. Often it is like a combination of finger
> jointing, block core, and plywood.
Yeah, but who's doing the "engineering" and more importantly, the
manufacturing is the key to what you really may get.
> Furniture with "engineered wood" components is higher end furniture
> than the crap built with "wood product" such as MDF, waferboard, and
> compressed sawdust and in some cases actually better than furniture
> made with "solid hardwood" which can split and warp (and often does)
> Engineered lumber does not crack, split, or warp and is generally
> lighter than the crappy "wood pruduct" as well as being much stronger,
> and holds fasteners much better..
...
Again, while generally true, just how much so will depend greatly on
just what level of quality the manufacturer has specified to their
vendor and then the ability of (and the QC on) that vendor to actually
produce the product.
There was a thread here just the other day illustrating how poor some of
those materials can actually be...
Again, while I won't argue any of the above "CAN" be so, I think it's
overly optimistic in consumer goods to simply presume "WILL BE" so, at
least without some serious visual inspection and question-raising.
As I noted, I'd consider strongly what sort of product satisfaction the
seller/manufacturer will offer as indication of what they really think
over any just presumption based on the marketing hype which is all the
above is.
Yet again, not saying it isn't/can't be good to excellent to even
superior; just I'd not be assuming it means it _has_ to be...
But I will agree, OP's probably doing better than run-of-the-mill stuff
off the floor at the local Ashley outlet...
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On Wed, 10 Aug 2016 13:43:36 -0400
Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
> The more words you use the higher price you can get.
wonder if the wood was from the north or south facing side of the tree
and uphill or downhill side
On 8/10/2016 12:13 PM, FrozenNorth wrote:
> On 2016-08-10 1:08 PM, dpb wrote:
>> On 08/10/2016 9:44 AM, Gramps' shop wrote:
>>> Manufacturer of a sofa we are thinking of buying describe the frame
>>> as comprised of "Kiln-dried engineered wood and solid wood." Anyone
>>> comeacross KD engineered wood who can enlighten me?
>>
>> _All_ commercially-produced wood furniture will have kiln-dried lumber
>> as the start; that's just "marketing-speak" trying to sound like it's
>> something unique that it isn't.
>>
>> "Engineered wood" is any of a number of possibilities, most being
>> various ways of producing larger pieces from smaller, lower cost
>> alternatives from using solid pieces of the same end size.
>>
>> IOW, it's just a fancy way of saying "we glue stuff up and then cut it
>> down to size" without giving any real limitations on what, specifically,
>> is actually done.
>>
>> IOW, it's all meaningless other than the fact that it says the piece
>> isn't all one solid, single piece of wood. In fact, probably it'll be
>> structural pieces that are glued up with a face layer of the
>> appearance-selected species that is visible.
>>
>> From a structural viewpoint, it's quite possible the piece is a strong
>> or stronger than it would be if solid what with the current technology
>> of UV-cured glues and all but like everything else whether it actually
>> is or not will depend on the actual species they do use and more
>> importantly, how well the producer of the material manufactures it.
>> That, unfortunately, there's really no way to know other than by whether
>> the manufacturer is willing to stand behind the piece for more than 90
>> days and/or end-user satisfaction reports on similar pieces of the same
>> manufacturer using the same technology and hope it's still the same
>> supplier and process.
>>
>> Or, to sum it all up..."who knows?"
>>
> Bingo, it is marketing speak, ie. "Baffle them with BS"
>
Perhaps not. Engineered wood is stronger than solid wood. But the
uneducated think plywood is crap compared to solid wood.
It is marketing speak but probably from the stand point that the
customer does not think they are using an inferior material.