x-no-archive:yes
I am new to woodowrkign and am thinking of purchasing a cheap jointer.
(Cheap because I have two small kids and money is hard to come by!) I
was looking at a Delta table top model but seem to have read bad
reviews about it not cutting straight or something. Also, If I have a
long board of 5 feet or longer would a table top work? The Delta
benchtop is 199.
They also have another Delta with a stand that is bigger. I think it
will take off 1/2 inch at a time. It is 349.
Are all table tops junk? Is it best to avoid them? What would you
recommend?
Or do it the easy (faster) way. Take a strait board and do whatever needed
to mount it to the router table. Put a notch in the middle of one edge for
the bit. On the outfeed side, use a piece of double sided tape to stick a
piece of plastic laminate, plastic sheet, sheetmetal or anything else about
the right thickness. Jointer fence, fast and simple.
"Mcfly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Or add a sub-fence to both sides and make the outfeed sub-fence
> slightly thicker.
>
"stryped" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> I am new to woodowrkign and am thinking of purchasing a cheap jointer.
> (Cheap because I have two small kids and money is hard to come by!) I
> was looking at a Delta table top model but seem to have read bad
> reviews about it not cutting straight or something. Also, If I have a
> long board of 5 feet or longer would a table top work? The Delta
> benchtop is 199.
>
> They also have another Delta with a stand that is bigger. I think it
> will take off 1/2 inch at a time. It is 349.
>
> Are all table tops junk? Is it best to avoid them? What would you
> recommend?
>
I've been happy with my Sunhill SM-150 (www.sunhillmachinery.com).
That said, I've just ordered an 8" jointer from Grizzly just because I found
I was always looking at face jointing 6-7" boards.
Cheers,
cc
I had the delta bench top jointer. I wouldn't recommend it. I did one
project with it and sold it. The tables were aluminum and out of flat
by about 1/8" on the edge of the outfeed table on the side of the
fence. This made it impossible to edge joint boards with the fence all
the way back. The motor was good, but loud. The dust port used to
clog with dust because I didn't have dust collection at the time. The
tables were just too short to joint anything over, I'd say, about 3
feet.
For about $350, I'd suggest this one:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0452
I'd stay away from the table top models in general. For a little more,
you get a lot more jointer. The tables are double the length and cast
iron instead of aluminum, you get an induction motor, a proper stand,
and a cast iron fence instead of stamped steel or aluminum.
Also, you would never take off 1/2" at a time on any jointer no matter
how big. I'd say 1/8" is probably the absolute limit with 1/16" or
1/32" being more realistic. If you need a board to be 1/2" thinner,
run it through a planer in multiple passes taking 1/16" or 1/8" if you
have a larger planer with a big motor and the board isn't too wide.
brian
The length of a jointer's bed pretty much determines the length of the
board you can joint. I know, quite a few people CAN take a five foot
board and joint it on a two foot jointer and my hat's off to those
people but I'm not one of 'em. The more board you can lay flat on the
infeed table, the longer flat you can make.
I found my four-inch vintage craftsman jointer worked great for boards
up to three feet long. Any longer and it was guesswork, time,
frustration, and more time, followed by hand planes.
Benchtop jointer=little short boards. That's what it turned out to be
in my case. But I bought that little jointer for 75 and sold it for 50,
and I actually did get 25 bucks worth of use out of it, so I don't
think I did too bad. I was glad to see it replaced by that 8 inch Griz,
though. :-)
Look at the link. There's a shipping charge, looks like $69. But
there's no tax though if you're not in MO, PA, or WA. If you are in
one of those states, just drive there. So it might cost you an extra
$50 or so to go with the grizzly. I haven't looked at the specs for
the delta you mentioned, but I bet the griz is better.
The shipping is handled by a freight company. They show up with a big
truck. It's not quite as automatic as ups or fedex, but it's easy.
You might have to pay a little extra for lift gate service, sometimes
not. It depends on the freight company. You can also usually pick it
up at the freight terminal to avoid that problem.
Grizzly has been around for 20 years or so and has a good reputation
for customer service. Just do a google search for grizzly here or on
woodnet. I wouldn't worry too much about parts. Things like motors,
knives, belts, pullies, and bearings are sort of generic, so you can
get them anywhere if something happens to griz. I doubt that though.
These are also generic chaiwanese machines. Chances are high that
someone like sunhill, wilke, shopfox, or even jet or delta will have
the exact same machine painted a different color and priced
differently. Griz seems to be doing great and is putting pressure on
all the others at the moment.
brian
Here's a suggestion: gamble $15 and run a want ad in your local paper.
I was planning on buying a new 14" bandsaw this winter and on a whim
decided to run an want ad right after the holidays. I ended up getting
offers for six band saws, including three that I thought were real
steals. I bought a Jet 14" (with aftermarket fence, Carter guides,
three speed kit, a bunch of blades, etc.) for $225. The receipts the
guy had in the manual say he spent about $900 for the whole mess four
years ago, and the saw had barely been used. I'm sure there are as
many unused jointers laying around collecting dust, so give it a shot.
I ran my ad in the "Building Materials and Tools" section of our paper
for a week; all the calls came on the second weekend so be patient.
x-no-archive:yes
So you just place the outfeed side of the fence 1/8 inch or so past the
end of the blade. Then feed the work from the infeed side which is
level with the blade? Am I understanding that correctly?
Joe Barta wrote:
> stryped wrote:
>
> > Could you explain this to me?
>
> I gave you damn cool drawings! What more could you possibly want?
>
> :-)
>
> > Is it good enough to edge joint boards
> > for glueing into pannels?
>
> Yes it is... but... like anything else, it's possible to have a sloppy
> setup and get sloppy results. Practice on a few pieces of cheap pine
> and see how it goes.
>
> Joe Barta
x-no-archive:yes
So the place where the wood starts that side of the fence is 1/16 below
the blade? (If that makes sense).
Joe Barta wrote:
> stryped wrote:
>
> > So you just place the outfeed side of the fence 1/8 inch or so
> > past the end of the blade. Then feed the work from the infeed side
> > which is level with the blade? Am I understanding that correctly?
>
> In the first example, looking down at the table as in the drawing, the
> outfeed side of the fence is even with the edge of the cutter and the
> infeed side of the fence is to the right 1/16" AT THE MOST... 1/32" is
> even better. Imagine a jointer, but on it's side.
>
> Joe Barta
On the infeed side, if the fence totally blocked the cutter, it
wouldn't cut anything, so you have to make the the cutter protrude from
the plane of the infeed fence by about 1/32". On the outfeed side, if
the fence was higher than the cutter, the work piece would hang up on
the fence. If the fence were lower than the cutter, the cutter would
take off too much and you wouldn't get a flat cut.
In other words, if you put a straight edge against the fence when it is
properly set up, the straight edge will touch the outfeed table and
also the farthest reach of the cutter. But there will be a 1/32" gap
between the straight edge and the infeed side of the fence.
brian
"stryped" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> I am new to woodowrkign and am thinking of purchasing a cheap jointer.
> (Cheap because I have two small kids and money is hard to come by!) I
> was looking at a Delta table top model but seem to have read bad
> reviews about it not cutting straight or something. Also, If I have a
> long board of 5 feet or longer would a table top work? The Delta
> benchtop is 199.
>
> They also have another Delta with a stand that is bigger. I think it
> will take off 1/2 inch at a time. It is 349.
>
> Are all table tops junk? Is it best to avoid them? What would you
> recommend?
>
A table top jointer has very little use. Why don't you just buy a good
quality hand plane? Veritas from Lee Valley is a wise choice. It will last
forever and you will learn its true value.
Dave
An old solid oak tree is just a nut that refused to give up.
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
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x-no-archive:yes
That makes sense now. What is the best way to measure 1/32?? I start
looking at those little lines sometimes and it gets hard lining
everythign up.
brianlanning wrote:
> On the infeed side, if the fence totally blocked the cutter, it
> wouldn't cut anything, so you have to make the the cutter protrude from
> the plane of the infeed fence by about 1/32". On the outfeed side, if
> the fence was higher than the cutter, the work piece would hang up on
> the fence. If the fence were lower than the cutter, the cutter would
> take off too much and you wouldn't get a flat cut.
>
> In other words, if you put a straight edge against the fence when it is
> properly set up, the straight edge will touch the outfeed table and
> also the farthest reach of the cutter. But there will be a 1/32" gap
> between the straight edge and the infeed side of the fence.
>
> brian
x-no-archive:yes
I promise I am not a troll. I fooled with the router table yesterday
trying to do what you said. What I realized is, my fence is all one
piece. When you adjust the outfeed side, the infeed side moves as well
if that makes sense. In this scenario, how do you get the infeed table
1/32 lower than the outfeed table? My router and table is a ryobi from
home depot I believe.
brianlanning wrote:
> >That makes sense now. What is the best way to measure 1/32?? I start
> >looking at those little lines sometimes and it gets hard lining
> >everythign up.
>
> Dude, this is really starting to sound like a troll. The answer is it
> doesn't really matter. Just make it a little bit.
>
> brian
x-no-archive:yes
What does that mean? I have looked but am having trouble finding
anything. I would prefer something close to 38583 so it could be picked
up and avoid shipping charges.
dadiOH wrote:
> stryped wrote:
> > x-no-archive:yes
> >
> > Are there surces on the internet for used equipment at a cheap price?
>
> You're not really a self-starter, are you?
>
> --
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
x-no-archive:yes
Is this a table top model? I always heard to stay away from those.
Lee Gordon wrote:
> For about $350 you can get a very nice 6" jointer at your local Home Depot.
>
> Lee
>
> --
> To e-mail, replace "bucketofspam" with "dleegordon"
>
> _________________________________
> Lee Gordon
> http://www.leegordonproductions.com
>Is this a table top model? I always heard to stay away from those.
He probably means a Rigid model. They have a 6" floor standing jointer
that would serve your needs just fine.
Look, just buy this:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006K00Q/qid=1140097247/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-7602621-8748109?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=228013
It's the delta JT360. Looks like with the right code you can get
either $40 off the price or a free reciprocating saw. There's also a
$30 mail-in rebate and the shipping is free. So it looks like you can
have it for $280 delivered.
If your patient, you can watch ebay or craigslist or the paper or
something like that and pick up a good used one for probably less.
brian
dags for craigs list
For longer boards you want longer tables. The longer the better.
Brand doesn't really enter in to this.
Yeah, it's probably the exact same model they have at lowes. The stand
is included with the machine. Only the bench top models don't have a
stand.
Whether to buy online is up to you. There's no tax online, but there's
usually a shipping charge. In this case there isn't. Amazon is also
having a good sale right now. The down side of online is that if you
want to return something, you have to ship it. You're not likely to
have those kinds of problems. Just make sure there's no shipping
damage when you unload it from the truck.
brian
x-no-archive:yes
So none wil produce a perfectly stright edge for gluing?
I looked at that Delta at Lowes at lunch. I put a straight edge on the
table. At the fence there was a 1/16 or more gap between it and the
square. I assume this is bad.
brianlanning wrote:
> At that price, none of them will be perfect.
>
> brian
It's a floor model. They're notorious for being way out of adjustment.
Also, It could have been dropped, or sat upon. Then again, sometimes
you just get a dud. And why it's not flat matters. Is the top not
flat or is one of the tables just sagging and correctable with shims?
If you really want to be sure, go over to woodcraft and buy the jointer
from them. They'll probably set it up for you and make sure it's flat.
And if it's not, they'll take it back and make it right. You won't
pay $280 though.
brian
They're usually assembled by kids in a hurry. I bet a lot of returned
machinery end up as floor models also. I'd expect a place like grizzly
or woodcraft to have a properly set up floor model in case someone
wants to run a few boards through it. But home depot is just the
opposite. It seems like every time I play with a rigid band saw, the
blade (if it's there) is off the wheels and jammed between the wheel
and the case.
brian
"stryped" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> I am new to woodowrkign and am thinking of purchasing a cheap jointer.
> (Cheap because I have two small kids and money is hard to come by!) I
> was looking at a Delta table top model but seem to have read bad
> reviews about it not cutting straight or something. Also, If I have a
> long board of 5 feet or longer would a table top work? The Delta
> benchtop is 199.
>
> They also have another Delta with a stand that is bigger. I think it
> will take off 1/2 inch at a time. It is 349.
>
> Are all table tops junk? Is it best to avoid them? What would you
> recommend?
I had this discussion recently with somone via e-mail. The conclusion was to
consider one of the generally cheaper 6" long bed jointers such as
http://www.wilkemachinery.com/Yorkcraft.tpl <<$339
or
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0452 <<$325
A good had plane will take care of faces or edges. It also has the
advantages that it is mostly noise free, does more than one thing and hangs
on the wall when not in use.
"brianlanning" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> He probably wants to face-joint.
>
> brian
>
On 14 Feb 2006 07:46:38 -0800, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>x-no-archive:yes
>
>How would I get it shipped to me? (Grizzley) I bet it would be
>expensive.
Check their web site. They list the shipping charge.
>
>How would you get replacement parts if it was a problem?
I have not needed any repair parts for my Grizzly jointer, which, BTW, runs
like a champ.
The only time I needed parts from Grizzly was for a new tool. I did not like
the finish on one piece, there was a handle missing, and a tapped hole in
another was not good. I made a call and the parts ware here in two days. They
did not want the original parts back.
I know that there are some who dismiss Grizzly out of hand because it is not
Delta, or Jet, or Powermatic, or some other famous fancy brand. Me, I have a
shop full of their heavy iron and have been very happy with what I have
purchased.
____________________
Bill Waller
New Eagle, PA
[email protected]
Joe Barta wrote:
> stryped wrote:
>
>
>>That makes sense now. What is the best way to measure 1/32??
>
>
> Lay your dick on the table ;-)
>
ROFLMAO.
Sorry but that cought me off guard. To say that in the middle of what
looked like a normal intelligent conversation. lol.
--
Thank you,
"Then said I, Wisdom [is] better than strength: nevertheless the poor
man's wisdom [is] despised, and his words are not heard." Ecclesiastes 9:16
Edwin Pawlowski (in _%[email protected])
said:
| "Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in
| message
|| It's "half a sixteenth". <G>
||
|| Really!
|
| Which half?
The small half.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
stryped wrote:
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Are there surces on the internet for used equipment at a cheap price?
You're not really a self-starter, are you?
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
In article <jUIIf.36036$Eq.34609@trnddc02>, [email protected] says...
> stryped wrote:
> > x-no-archive:yes
> >
> > I promise I am not a troll. I fooled with the router table yesterday
> > trying to do what you said. What I realized is, my fence is all one
> > piece. When you adjust the outfeed side, the infeed side moves as well
> > if that makes sense. In this scenario, how do you get the infeed table
> > 1/32 lower than the outfeed table? My router and table is a ryobi from
>
> Stick a piece of Formica to the outfeed side.
>
> It is harder to set up a fence that way as you have to precisely adjust
> the amount of cut of the bit but it is about all you can do. With a
> split fence, you can set up the infeed fence and bit, cut a few inches
> and move the outfeed fence out to the cut edge...much easier.
>
Norm just showed exactly how to do this on "Router 101" part 2, which
aired yesterday on my local PBS station. The "slide the outfeed side
against the cut edge" method looks a lot easier than trying to get the
two halves of the fence precisely parallel and even with the bit by
measuring first.
>
> --
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
>
>
>
--
John
stryped wrote:
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> So you just place the outfeed side of the fence 1/8 inch or so past
> the end of the blade. Then feed the work from the infeed side which is
> level with the blade? Am I understanding that correctly?
No
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
stryped wrote:
> I am new to woodowrkign and am thinking of purchasing a cheap
> jointer. (Cheap because I have two small kids and money is hard to
> come by!)
If you happen to have a router table, then you have the makings of a
poor man's jointer using a straight bit...
METHOD 1
|
|
| <---fence (this section of fence
| bumped out the thickness
\ | of the cut)
/|\ |
| |
| /-\ <---3/4" straight bit
| \-/
+-------+|
| ||
| ||
| ||
| ||
| ||
| work || <---fence
| ||
| ||
| ||
+-------+|
|
|
|
METHOD 2
|
| \
| /|\
| |
| | /-\
| | \-/
|+-------+
|| |
|| |
|| |
|| |
|| |
|| work |
|| |
|| |
|| |
|+-------+
|
|
| <---fence
|
Cool drawings, eh? For those that are curious, I used an old copy of
"Email Effects"... a drawing program that draws in ASCII characters.
Joe Barta
stryped wrote:
> Could you explain this to me?
I gave you damn cool drawings! What more could you possibly want?
:-)
> Is it good enough to edge joint boards
> for glueing into pannels?
Yes it is... but... like anything else, it's possible to have a sloppy
setup and get sloppy results. Practice on a few pieces of cheap pine
and see how it goes.
Joe Barta
stryped wrote:
> So you just place the outfeed side of the fence 1/8 inch or so
> past the end of the blade. Then feed the work from the infeed side
> which is level with the blade? Am I understanding that correctly?
In the first example, looking down at the table as in the drawing, the
outfeed side of the fence is even with the edge of the cutter and the
infeed side of the fence is to the right 1/16" AT THE MOST... 1/32" is
even better. Imagine a jointer, but on it's side.
Joe Barta
stryped wrote:
> So the place where the wood starts that side of the fence is 1/16
> below the blade? (If that makes sense).
Here's what you do... mount a 1/2" or greater straight bit (if you
have one) into your router (if you have one) mount that router into a
router table (if you have one)... put on a pair of safety glasses and
maybe a face mask and some shin guards... grab a pine board, recite
the Lord's Prayer once or twice and just dive in with both feet.
You'll figure it out. Be very aware of where your fingers are at all
times and let me know how you make out with it.
Best of luck,
Joe Barta
"Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> It's "half a sixteenth". <G>
>
> Really!
Which half?
> Also, If I have a
> long board of 5 feet or longer would a table top work?
It can, *if* your technique is good. But that it at the limit of its
capability,
> They also have another Delta with a stand that is bigger. I think it
> will take off 1/2 inch at a time. It is 349.
You misunderstand how a jointer is used. You make multiple passes, removing
a small amount at a time (like < 1/16") to iteratively approach flat. It
usually takes me a 3 or 4 passes to flatten a board, more if it has
significant bow wtist or cup.
The 1/2" measure is the max depth of a rabbet that can be cut by the
jointer. The only measurements that you really need to be concerned with are
bed width and more importantly length.
> Are all table tops junk? Is it best to avoid them?
With jointers, size matters. The geometry of the tool dictates that you can
flatten a board up to twice the length of the jointer's bed, (if you stand
on your left foot pat your head and use good technique). They are not
"junk", they are seriously limitted in capacity. Someone who unsuccessfully
tried to joint a 5 foot board using marginal technique might conclude that
they are all junk because they tried to make a tool designed to joint a
3-foot board do something that it is not designed to do.
Find used or save for the floor model.
-Steve
stryped wrote:
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> How would I get it shipped to me? (Grizzley) I bet it would be
> expensive.
You could ask Grizzly. Or look on their website.
__________
> How would you get replacement parts if it was a problem?
You could ask Grizzly. Or look on their website.
___________
Duh...
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
stryped wrote:
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> I promise I am not a troll. I fooled with the router table yesterday
> trying to do what you said. What I realized is, my fence is all one
> piece. When you adjust the outfeed side, the infeed side moves as well
> if that makes sense. In this scenario, how do you get the infeed table
> 1/32 lower than the outfeed table? My router and table is a ryobi from
Stick a piece of Formica to the outfeed side.
It is harder to set up a fence that way as you have to precisely adjust
the amount of cut of the bit but it is about all you can do. With a
split fence, you can set up the infeed fence and bit, cut a few inches
and move the outfeed fence out to the cut edge...much easier.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 12:46:15 -0800, stryped wrote:
> x-no-archive:yes
> So none wil produce a perfectly stright edge for gluing?
>
> I looked at that Delta at Lowes at lunch. I put a straight edge on the
> table. At the fence there was a 1/16 or more gap between it and the
> square. I assume this is bad.
> brianlanning wrote:
>> At that price, none of them will be perfect.
>>
>> brian
Nope ... assume that the fence was not set square to the table. That's the
end-users job to set and verify each time you begin working and
occaisionally afterward if you are into a big job.
Bill
On 14 Feb 2006 14:06:25 -0800, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>x-no-archive:yes
>
>That makes sense now. What is the best way to measure 1/32??
It's "half a sixteenth". <G>
Really!
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Ba r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> It's "half a sixteenth". <G>
>>
>> Really!
>
> Which half?
>
>
The better one!
In article <[email protected]>, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I am new to woodowrkign and am thinking of purchasing a cheap jointer.
[...]
>Are all table tops junk? Is it best to avoid them? What would you
>recommend?
In addition to the very good advice you've already received, let me add this:
consider buying used equipment. Check the ads in your local newspaper, and
attend auctions. You can probably get a decent, used 6" jointer on a floor
stand for not much more than you'd pay for a new table-top jointer... and
you'll be *much* happier with it.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.