I dropped by the local Home Depot to check out Ryobi's BT3100. This
machine had obviously been abused by customers (the clerk said it had
been on display for eight months), but it still left me feeling a bit
leery. I like the concept overall, but two things in particular bothered
me about it:
- The sliding miter table had lot of play. I could wrack it a degree or
so anywhere along its travel. If this is typical, how would anyone ever
get a dead-on accurate miter cut?
- The fence *can* be locked down other than parallel to the blade, but
it takes a lot of work to do so and clearly wouldn't happen
accidentally. That's the good news. The bad news is that, once locked
down, the far end can be pushed to one side or the other with very
little pressure, a Very Bad Thing.
In my cursory examination, I didn't see any abvious adjustments one
could make to offset these limitations. So... are these faults inherent
in the machine's design, or was it a matter of a badly adjusted/abused
demo model?
(This being HD, of course I couldn't look at a manual.)
Kevin Craig wrote:
> I have a BT3100. From all reports, all BT3x variants (including the
> Craftsman) are smooth as silk. Mine will pass the nickel test in both
> directions, while cutting 4/4 oak.
Sounds like that about seals the deal then. The only objection I still have
to the concept is the extra juggling of machinery I would have to do in
order to accommodate the projecting miter table.
> (And when I've got my dream shop, I'll have the Unisaur you all dream
> of!)
Feh, when I have *my* dream shop, I'll have a saw that makes a Unisaur look
like a pitiful child's plaything.
>> me in the forehead, even after I've pushed them aside with a stick.
>
> Don't push them aside. Push them off the table. It only takes a flick
> of the wrist.
Well, there is that. Not so easy to do though. My shop is tight, and if I
flick them off the table in pretty much any available direction, then I'll
have to move something to go fetch them.
What I actually do is pull the sled all the way back until I'm well clear of
the blade, and then I remove the pieces and stack them off to the side
somewhere. Works, but it's tedious.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
Confirmed post number: 17788 Approximate word count: 533640
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
In article <[email protected]>, Wade Lippman
<[email protected]> wrote:
> > I've got a BT-3000 (essentially the same machine as the 3100). Let's be
> > clear about one thing -- it's not in the same league as a Unisaw, or
> > even the various "contractors saws" sold by Delta, Jet, Grizzly, etc.
> >
> How is it deficient? Durability, noise?
It's quiet as universal motors go. It's durable as long as it's
treated as a fairly light weight precision tool and not 600 pounds of
cast iron.
Kevin
In article <[email protected]>, todd1814
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I recently
> returned a Dewalt 13" planer that was never opened. (lost my job,
> couldn't pay for it) The box was still wrapped in plastic. They took
> the planer back, marked it down $100 and put a clearance sticker on
> it.
Next time you do that, howzabout giving a bargain alert to the wReck?
Kevin
In article <[email protected]>, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Randy Chapman wrote:
>
> > (Of course, it still screams)
>
> Is it smooth otherwise? I'm still thinking about one of those eventually.
>
> My recently tuned Skil table saw is much improved and functional, but it
> goes WHAM when I start it, and there's just soooooo much vibration.
I have a BT3100. From all reports, all BT3x variants (including the
Craftsman) are smooth as silk. Mine will pass the nickel test in both
directions, while cutting 4/4 oak.
Perceptions vary, just as buttheads running straight pipes on their
motorcycles or cars *think* they have more power. They don't; they
have more noise and vibration, which they equate with power. Unisaur
adherents hear the universal motor on a Ryobi, and equate vibration
with noise. Doesn't make it so, but I do understand the perception.
(And when I've got my dream shop, I'll have the Unisaur you all dream
of!)
> Doing repeat stuff is scary because the cutoff parts are doing the hokey pokey
> all over the table top, waiting to vibrate into the blade and thock me in
> the forehead, even after I've pushed them aside with a stick.
Don't push them aside. Push them off the table. It only takes a flick
of the wrist.
Kevin
Randy Chapman wrote:
> (Of course, it still screams)
Is it smooth otherwise? I'm still thinking about one of those eventually.
My recently tuned Skil table saw is much improved and functional, but it
goes WHAM when I start it, and there's just soooooo much vibration. Doing
repeat stuff is scary because the cutoff parts are doing the hokey pokey
all over the table top, waiting to vibrate into the blade and thock me in
the forehead, even after I've pushed them aside with a stick.
I ran it without a blade briefly, and all of this is coming from the motor.
Most of the shrieking of the saw is pure motor, and the blade actually
doesn't add much of a component to the sound at all.
Doesn't make sense. Why the hell is the motor so noisy? I've run hundreds
of motors in hundreds of other things in my lifetime, and never have I
encountered a more obnoxious motor.
I guess I should go look at what a "universal motor" really is.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
Confirmed post number: 17750 Approximate word count: 532500
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>I dropped by the local Home Depot to check out Ryobi's BT3100. This
>machine had obviously been abused by customers (the clerk said it had
>been on display for eight months),
This wouldn't happen to be in the Atlanta area, would it? I had the same
experience at a HD a couple of days ago. The BT3100 on display looked like it
was ready for the scrap heap. Lots of neat features, though.
Rich S.
Wolf Lahti wrote:
> - The sliding miter table had lot of play. I could wrack it a degree or
> so anywhere along its travel. If this is typical, how would anyone ever
> get a dead-on accurate miter cut?
The play, as well as everything else about the SMT, is adjusted with
little eccentric bolts. More easily visible from underside of SMT. You
can take out the slack in a minute or two with just a screwdriver,
without disassembling anything. In my experience, though, if you want
the table to slide freely, you have to live with a tiny amount of play
(maybe 0.005).
> - The bad news is that, once locked
> down, the far end can be pushed to one side or the other with very
> little pressure, a Very Bad Thing.
Are you sure the far end of the fence is really locking? Try pressing
the locking lever a bit harder, or checking that the fence is really
seated correctly at the back. Properly adjusted, it does lock and does
not deflect easily, though I admit I haven't tried really pushing mine.
You'll get more and better information at the www.bt3central.com forums.
Martin
Wolf Lahti <[email protected]> writes:
>For the price, the BT3100 seems to be a great deal, offering options
>many cast-iron saws can't match (a full 3.5-ich depth of cut for one).
>Some folks disparage it by talking about its 'plastic' parts, but the
>resins used are tougher than steel for some applications. That doesn't
>worry me.
I'll bet the resins that are stronger than steel cost as much as steel.
I can't imagine Ryobi using stronger than steel plastic on a fairly
inexpensive tool.
Brian Elfert
<My BT3000 was bought 5/92 and I didn't pay much attention to warning
about hearing protection for a couple of years, unfortunately. It has
a motor that IS LOUD! Now earmuffs are mandatory and a second pair
hang on a nail for visitors. I move the sliding miter assembly as
little as possible. Never have considered the miter slot thingy. Has
worked for me.
On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 21:36:42 -0400, Roy Smith <[email protected]> wrote:
>> How is it deficient? Durability, noise?
>>
>>
>
>Yes to both. A unisaw is made from cast iron. A BT-3000 is made from
>aluminum and plastic. It's like comparing a golf cart to an M-1 tank.
>They're both useful items, but hardly interchangable.
Oh, definitely, it is smooth. Put a nickel on edge on a piece of wood, turn
the saw on, and it won't *budge*. Honestly, while it does scream, it does
so much less than my thickness planer (possibly less than the router as
well), but it is much louder than the jointer (which is a bigger motor,
too).
I used to have the BTS10 (piece of crap benchtop). I plugged it in just
before I sold it, after I had the 3100 set up well. Scared the crap right
outta me -- the thing tried to jump off my workbench (where it was clamped
down!) and deafen me, all at the same time.
--randy
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Randy Chapman wrote:
>
> > (Of course, it still screams)
>
> Is it smooth otherwise? I'm still thinking about one of those eventually.
>
> My recently tuned Skil table saw is much improved and functional, but it
> goes WHAM when I start it, and there's just soooooo much vibration. Doing
> repeat stuff is scary because the cutoff parts are doing the hokey pokey
> all over the table top, waiting to vibrate into the blade and thock me in
> the forehead, even after I've pushed them aside with a stick.
>
> I ran it without a blade briefly, and all of this is coming from the
motor.
> Most of the shrieking of the saw is pure motor, and the blade actually
> doesn't add much of a component to the sound at all.
>
> Doesn't make sense. Why the hell is the motor so noisy? I've run
hundreds
> of motors in hundreds of other things in my lifetime, and never have I
> encountered a more obnoxious motor.
>
> I guess I should go look at what a "universal motor" really is.
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> Confirmed post number: 17750 Approximate word count: 532500
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>
Roy Smith said
>
> That being said, don't try to draw any conclusions from the junkpile on
> display at HD. Even if the thing was ever put together properly in the
> first place, in the 8 months it's been on display, it's gotten more
> abuse than any saw in a home shop would see in 8, or even 18 years.
>
Did I say 8 months? Yep, I did. I meant 8 weeks - but that really
doesn't make much difference. A demo sitting in the Borg is gonna get
trashed - period. And it's clear from other responses that the slop I
found in the miter table and fence was due to abuse or maladjustment.
The fence did not come close to locking at the far end - no contact to
speak of on the back rail - so that is a matter of how the thing was
assembled rather than any inherent flaw in the design.
Thanks for the rapid responses. (Don't you people have anything better
to do on a Friday night?)
For the price, the BT3100 seems to be a great deal, offering options
many cast-iron saws can't match (a full 3.5-ich depth of cut for one).
Some folks disparage it by talking about its 'plastic' parts, but the
resins used are tougher than steel for some applications. That doesn't
worry me.
That motor, however. That's the one thing that keeps my wallet in my
pocket when I pass by. My firt tablesaw was a cheapie benchtop with a
universal motor, and I burnt that out in short order in my woodworking
learning curve.
Wolf Lahti wrote:
> Thanks for the rapid responses. (Don't you people have anything better
> to do on a Friday night?)
Nope. What should I be doing? I haven't done anything out of the ordinary
on a Friday for going on a decade now.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
Confirmed post number: 17699 Approximate word count: 530970
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
In article <[email protected]>,
"Wade Lippman" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I've got a BT-3000 (essentially the same machine as the 3100). Let's be
> > clear about one thing -- it's not in the same league as a Unisaw, or
> > even the various "contractors saws" sold by Delta, Jet, Grizzly, etc.
> >
> How is it deficient? Durability, noise?
>
>
Yes to both. A unisaw is made from cast iron. A BT-3000 is made from
aluminum and plastic. It's like comparing a golf cart to an M-1 tank.
They're both useful items, but hardly interchangable.
Wolf Lahti <[email protected]> wrote:
> I dropped by the local Home Depot to check out Ryobi's BT3100. This
> machine had obviously been abused by customers (the clerk said it had
> been on display for eight months), but it still left me feeling a bit
> leery.
I've got a BT-3000 (essentially the same machine as the 3100). Let's be
clear about one thing -- it's not in the same league as a Unisaw, or
even the various "contractors saws" sold by Delta, Jet, Grizzly, etc.
That being said, don't try to draw any conclusions from the junkpile on
display at HD. Even if the thing was ever put together properly in the
first place, in the 8 months it's been on display, it's gotten more
abuse than any saw in a home shop would see in 8, or even 18 years. I
suspect 8 months on display in a HD would wreck just about any piece of
equipment short of a blacksmith's anvil.
Mine is about 4 years old. The sliding table slides nicely, and stays
parallel to the blade. The fence moves smoothly, and locks rigidly in
place without any effort. But I'm careful with it and respect its
limitations.
"Kevin Craig" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:120920032113549535%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Wade Lippman
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > I've got a BT-3000 (essentially the same machine as the 3100). Let's
be
> > > clear about one thing -- it's not in the same league as a Unisaw, or
> > > even the various "contractors saws" sold by Delta, Jet, Grizzly, etc.
> > >
> > How is it deficient? Durability, noise?
>
> It's quiet as universal motors go. It's durable as long as it's
> treated as a fairly light weight precision tool and not 600 pounds of
> cast iron.
>
> Kevin
The one thing I think the BT-3000 has all over it's like competitors is the
width of rip. I couldn't live with anything less.
--
Jim in NC