I just returned from the house of a fellow carpentero that used a new
product they had at HD. It was a cab ply material that came from
Ecuador. He showed me some of it, and it looked completely without
any sign of character, and was so soft that it easily scratched with a
fingernail. The facings were without blemish, but they were obviously
cut from some super soft wood that rode easily on the rotary cutters.
He told me he bought it because it was cheap, and was going to be used
for shelving in a linen closet. How much abrasion did he need to
worry about from folded towels? Three coats of paint should have done
all he needed.
But.... a coat of paint proved that wrong. After a good coat of
latex, the grain swelled to the point it looked like plywood that had
been left outside for a couple of months. It raised up so high I
thought he got a nice piece of utility grade and painted it, not "cab
ply".
He wound up waiting a day for the paint to harden and sanded it all
down and started over again on the finishing. The grain rose again
(!!!) but not as much. One more day to dry, then sand, then recoat.
If you see it, don't buy it. It is pure crap for its intended use,
and I have no doubt many a pro and DIY guy will rue the day they
bought this crap. It more than doubles the work to use junk like this
for anything (except maybe fire starter).
I have had more than one philosophical discussion about hitting the
DIY price point for the consumer with HD managers, but when you pay
anything for garbage, you simply get screwed, regardless of the price
paid. Shame on HD. The should at least give you a choice between
their normal lousy stuff and just outright junk.
The reason my buddy bought this at HD was because our normal supplier
is about 15 miles from his house, and his old 3/4 ton hoopy gets about
8 mpg on a good day. He was thinking that the convenience would be
offset by the gas savings.
And all he wanted to do was to keep the wife off his back by throwing
in a few shelves over a couple of evenings.
Robert
On Jul 13, 3:35=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
> I just returned from the house of a fellow carpentero that used a new
> product they had at HD. =A0It was a cab ply material that came from
> Ecuador. =A0He showed me some of it, and it looked completely without
> any sign of character, and was so soft that it easily scratched with a
> fingernail. =A0The facings were without blemish, but they were obviously
> cut from some super soft wood that rode easily on the rotary cutters.
>
> He told me he bought it because it was cheap, and was going to be used
> for shelving in a linen closet. =A0How much abrasion did he need to
> worry about from folded towels? =A0Three coats of paint should have done
> all he needed.
>
> But.... a coat of paint proved that wrong. =A0After a good coat of
> latex, the grain swelled to the point it looked like plywood that had
> been left outside for a couple of months. =A0It raised up so high I
> thought he got a nice piece of utility grade and painted it, not "cab
> ply".
>
> He wound up waiting a day for the paint to harden and sanded it all
> down and started over again on the finishing. =A0The grain rose again
> (!!!) but not as much. =A0One more day to dry, then sand, then recoat.
>
> If you see it, don't buy it. =A0It is pure crap for its intended use,
> and I have no doubt many a pro and DIY guy will rue the day they
> bought this crap. =A0It more than doubles the work to use junk like this
> for anything (except maybe fire starter).
>
> I have had more than one philosophical discussion about hitting the
> DIY price point for the consumer with HD managers, but when you pay
> anything for garbage, you simply get screwed, regardless of the price
> paid. =A0Shame on HD. =A0The should at least give you a choice between
> their normal lousy stuff and just outright junk.
>
> The reason my buddy bought this at HD was because our normal supplier
> is about 15 miles from his house, and his old 3/4 ton hoopy gets about
> 8 mpg on a good day. =A0He was thinking that the convenience would be
> offset by the gas savings.
>
> And all he wanted to do was to keep the wife off his back by throwing
> in a few shelves over a couple of evenings.
I remember looking into what wood was used for that sort of plywood as
I'd never seen anything like it. It's some South American wood that
grows ridiculously fast and has very little grain and an almost cream
color. Can't remember the name.
The stuff has it's place. Painting seems to have been the biggest
problem for your buddy, as it was the first time I used some. I ran
into the super-swollen grain problem, so I used shellac sanding
sealer, and then there was no problem afterwards, and you can sand the
stuff in half an hour. The latex paint was the problem, not the wood.
R
On Jul 13, 4:38=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
[snipped for brevity]
>
> - Due to health/legal issues (real or imagined), we are all moving
> away from anything to do with solvent based finishes. =A0As much as I
> hate to give them up, the exposure to our ever-ready litigation teams
> is too much to consider. =A0By habit, it is better to provide the 85%
> finish quality latex provides than the 100% alkyd based gives
>
As I have become involved with a few high-end sign makers in this
area, I have had the pleasure to watch a few of them work their art.
One product they rely on is a leaded enamel, heavily pigmented and
designed for pin-striping and lettering. The manufacturer insist that
nothing in the formula has changed in 20 years. One painter showed me
the difference. you could easily feel the weight difference between
the older and newer cans. The new cans have a whole lot of legalese
all over it, like "don't paint toys or furniture" and that sort of
rot, Professional use only!!!. Older cans go for a premium. (They know
the differences between the labels and it has become an underground
trade.)
The upshot, is that the manufacturer buckled under EPA/OSHA/
WHOTHEHELLKNOWS and didn't want to lose their customers so they are
fibbingfibbing!
I remember hanging over the side of a tanker on a bosun's chair while
underway with a pail of red lead lead dangling from a rope beside me.
That 5 gallon pail weighed a shitload.
THEN there's the guy who bought a 64" wide solvent based inkjet
printer with a 300 page tome talking about 'solvent's' being airborne
and knocking the fucking birds out of the trees.
On Jul 13, 7:40 am, Stuart <[email protected]> wrote:
> Why would you use emulsion paint, usually used for painting walls, to
> paint shelves, when proper gloss paint would be more usual?
Assuming this is an honest question and not a troll, here are the
reasons.
- My buddy is good at a lot of things. Painting isn't one of them.
He feels more confident with latex paint
- These shelves are 2' X 4' and have a large area to paint. Oil base
in our South Texas heat is difficult to control due to drying edges.
Yesterday it was 103 F, so figure the dry time/difficulty based on
your own experience when applying solvent based finishes in extreme
heat
- He does not own any boar brushes to apply gloss (which I assume you
are using as a metaphor for alkyd based enamels) nor does he want the
extra cleaning hassle, including the additional purchase and storage
of cleaning solvents
- The fumes will outgas into the house for a week or two after
painting. He lives in a duplex, with his 80 year old mother fighting
COPD on one side, and he has his two year old son and stay at home
wife on his side. The fumes would be atrocious when painting in his
garage, and they will go right in the house. Then there is the
lingering smell
- Until this soiree, NEITHER OF US HAS HAD A PROBLEM PUTTING A COAT OF
LATEX ON "cab ply". He worked for me for about 8 years, and he has
primed many a board, sheet of plywood, wall, stick of trim, etc., for
me. His personal experiences gleaned over a period of years in
priming a cabinet grade piece of material led him to believe that he
was on safe ground. So with decades of experience from both of us on
this issue, it isn't a lack of experience, being lazy, being stupid,
or trying to cut a corner. It was business as usual that wasn't
- Due to health/legal issues (real or imagined), we are all moving
away from anything to do with solvent based finishes. As much as I
hate to give them up, the exposure to our ever-ready litigation teams
is too much to consider. By habit, it is better to provide the 85%
finish quality latex provides than the 100% alkyd based gives
- Inside a linen closet, big furry towels, washclothes, winter
blankets, and a few sweaters simply don't require the abrasion
resistance provided by a quality alkyd. A good quality, hard, semi
gloss latex enamel will serve well for many, many years. In the upper
end of enamels, while the alkyds have gotten softer (until you get to
true industrial rated coatings) the latex enamels have become much
harder. Service life of a latex enamel properly applied is excellent
Hope that clears things up.
Robert
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:cb2439e4-0220-45f2-bc64-e91e35073197@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>I just returned from the house of a fellow carpentero that used a new
> product they had at HD. It was a cab ply material that came from
> Ecuador. He showed me some of it, and it looked completely without
> any sign of character, and was so soft that it easily scratched with a
> fingernail. The facings were without blemish, but they were obviously
> cut from some super soft wood that rode easily on the rotary cutters.
>
> He told me he bought it because it was cheap, and was going to be used
> for shelving in a linen closet. How much abrasion did he need to
> worry about from folded towels? Three coats of paint should have done
> all he needed.
>
> But.... a coat of paint proved that wrong. After a good coat of
> latex, the grain swelled to the point it looked like plywood that had
> been left outside for a couple of months. It raised up so high I
> thought he got a nice piece of utility grade and painted it, not "cab
> ply".
>
> He wound up waiting a day for the paint to harden and sanded it all
> down and started over again on the finishing. The grain rose again
> (!!!) but not as much. One more day to dry, then sand, then recoat.
>
> If you see it, don't buy it. It is pure crap for its intended use,
> and I have no doubt many a pro and DIY guy will rue the day they
> bought this crap. It more than doubles the work to use junk like this
> for anything (except maybe fire starter).
>
> I have had more than one philosophical discussion about hitting the
> DIY price point for the consumer with HD managers, but when you pay
> anything for garbage, you simply get screwed, regardless of the price
> paid. Shame on HD. The should at least give you a choice between
> their normal lousy stuff and just outright junk.
>
> The reason my buddy bought this at HD was because our normal supplier
> is about 15 miles from his house, and his old 3/4 ton hoopy gets about
> 8 mpg on a good day. He was thinking that the convenience would be
> offset by the gas savings.
>
> And all he wanted to do was to keep the wife off his back by throwing
> in a few shelves over a couple of evenings.
Not to mention that this stuff will sag/bow in a minute -- mebbe not from
linen, but surely from anything else.
A timely post, given some recent sub-threads here on HD, with a surprising
number here apparently ardent defenders of HD.
When it is clear, to me at least, that HD has learned the art&science of
making us moan, but not scream. They do just enough to keep pissed off
customers from actually picketing the place.
Altho, the notion that we, as sheeple, are capable of mounting ANY kind of
rebellion against ANYTHING anymore, is proly just romantic silliness.
The most we seem capable of doing is harassing the occasional vulnerable
misfits, cuz, well, we are far too busy idolizing/worshipping celebrities
and sports figures, watching RealityTV and Kim Kardashian's ass (not me, of
course, and nor did I google it -- Serena Williams' ass, but not
Kim's.....), and playing online poker.
--
EA
>
> Robert
On 2011-07-13 03:35:27 -0400, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> said:
> If you see it, don't buy it. It is pure crap for its intended use,
> and I have no doubt many a pro and DIY guy will rue the day they
> bought this crap. It more than doubles the work to use junk like this
> for anything (except maybe fire starter).
Client spec'd this (price, price, price...) for a small job. I don't
know what the heck the wood was -- or perhaps it was the glue -- but
this stuff gave me a BLINDING headache for a day-and-a-half and left me
feeling flu-ish for several days after.
Nevermind that it was soft and soaked up primer... howsomever, the
matte black finish coat looked pretty good.
The client was happy and paid on delivery, so there's that.
On 2011-07-13 08:03:00 -0400, Swingman <[email protected]> said:
> "On sale" at HD a couple of months back for the price in the photo, it
> did not exhibit any of the problems your friend noted, but the price
> puts it suspiciously in the same genre. If I recall, the word "cabinet"
> was indeed used on the sign above the rack.
Nope -- that's the "good stuff" -- from Chile.
The Ecuadoran stuff is almost without grain pattern, sort of a step up
from balsa.
In article
<cb2439e4-0220-45f2-bc64-e91e35073197@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
[email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> But.... a coat of paint proved that wrong. After a good coat of
> latex, the grain swelled to the point it looked like plywood that had
> been left outside for a couple of months. It raised up so high I
> thought he got a nice piece of utility grade and painted it, not "cab
> ply".
Why would you use emulsion paint, usually used for painting walls, to
paint shelves, when proper gloss paint would be more usual?
--
Stuart Winsor
Midland RISC OS show - Sat July 9th 2011
http://mug.riscos.org/show11/MUGshow.html
In article
<[email protected]>,
[email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 13, 7:40 am, Stuart <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Why would you use emulsion paint, usually used for painting walls, to
> > paint shelves, when proper gloss paint would be more usual?
> Assuming this is an honest question and not a troll, here are the
> reasons.
No it's not a Troll
> Hope that clears things up.
Yup.
My gloss painting isn't much good either, my wife does it when required.
Her father trained as a "coach finisher", back in the days when car bodies
were often made of wood like coaches used to be - veneering, varnishing
painting - he taught her to paint.
I like water based paint myself because cleaning is much easier but, as
you have found out, water can affect some materials.
--
Stuart Winsor
Midland RISC OS show - Sat July 9th 2011
http://mug.riscos.org/show11/MUGshow.html
On Wed, 13 Jul 2011 00:35:27 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I just returned from the house of a fellow carpentero that used a new
>product they had at HD. It was a cab ply material that came from
>Ecuador. He showed me some of it, and it looked completely without
>any sign of character, and was so soft that it easily scratched with a
>fingernail. The facings were without blemish, but they were obviously
>cut from some super soft wood that rode easily on the rotary cutters.
>
>He told me he bought it because it was cheap, and was going to be used
>for shelving in a linen closet. How much abrasion did he need to
>worry about from folded towels? Three coats of paint should have done
>all he needed.
>
>But.... a coat of paint proved that wrong. After a good coat of
>latex, the grain swelled to the point it looked like plywood that had
>been left outside for a couple of months. It raised up so high I
>thought he got a nice piece of utility grade and painted it, not "cab
>ply".
Crap! Make sure he reviews it on the HD website. Both HD and
potential future buyers need to know how bad it is.
Did he return it, perchance?
>He wound up waiting a day for the paint to harden and sanded it all
>down and started over again on the finishing. The grain rose again
>(!!!) but not as much. One more day to dry, then sand, then recoat.
Did this happen with paint or primer, or both?
>The reason my buddy bought this at HD was because our normal supplier
>is about 15 miles from his house, and his old 3/4 ton hoopy gets about
>8 mpg on a good day. He was thinking that the convenience would be
>offset by the gas savings.
>
>And all he wanted to do was to keep the wife off his back by throwing
>in a few shelves over a couple of evenings.
Virtue is its own punishment. Or something like that.
Oh, "No good deed goes unpunished." That's the one.
--
Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort.
-- Franklin D. Roosevelt
On 7/13/2011 2:35 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> latex, the grain swelled to the point it looked like plywood that had
> been left outside for a couple of months. It raised up so high I
> thought he got a nice piece of utility grade and painted it, not "cab
> ply".
Did it look like this?:
https://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/EWoodShopRetrofit2011#5612643166724098738
"On sale" at HD a couple of months back for the price in the photo, it
did not exhibit any of the problems your friend noted, but the price
puts it suspiciously in the same genre. If I recall, the word "cabinet"
was indeed used on the sign above the rack.
As you know, I've literally bought truckloads of plywood and sheet goods
and have learned to be a pretty good judge of the product. I checked
this stuff out very closely before I loaded it up ... not the best
plywood I've ever bought at that price, but far from the worst, and that
was years ago (and it fit the criteria for this particular application -
"Inexpensive").
AAMOF, I wouldn't have been surprised to find more voids than usual, but
that turned out to not be the case with very few, if any, and the stuff,
while low grade, turned out to fit the bill.
As I've mentioned beaucoup times here, it seems ALL plywood varies from
batch to batch these days, even the pricey stuff from lumber yards and
boutique wood dealers.
It's why, when I purchase for a project, we shop around, examine the
stuff closely, and when when we finally do buy, buy more (20% +) than
needed _from the same rack/batch_ to insure not running out.
Besides the face veneer, one of the biggest problems is thickness where
differences will kill you when making cabinet boxes.
On the last kitchen, while I didn't run out of the originally purchased
imported A-1 Birch, I did purchase additional stock from the same
dealer/same rack about two months later, when the original stock was
running low, and, when compared to the original purchase, the new stuff
turned out to be a noticeably different shade, was a skosh over 1/32"
thinner, and had more voids ... which made it totally unsuitable for
cabinet sides and floors on this project (we used it for non critical
cabinet parts like shelves, dividers, tack stips, etc. and did not mix it).
The above was bought at one of the most respected hardwood, hardwood
products dealers in this area, was the same price and same grade ..
today, you pay's your money and takes your chances.
Unfortunately, in this culture, the same thing your friend found is just
as liable to happen anywhere, not just the Borg's.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Jul 14, 4:34=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Jul 13, 3:07=A0pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > =A0The latex paint was the problem, not the wood.
>
> Never indicated, hinted, or thought it was anything else. =A0A quick
> read of the header will give you a tremendous clue as to my first
> suspect in the problem.
>
> Of course, the post would do the same.
When you wrote
"If you see it, don't buy it. It is pure crap for its intended use,
and I have no doubt many a pro and DIY guy will rue the day they
bought this crap. It more than doubles the work to use junk like this
for anything (except maybe fire starter). "
I read that to be taking issue with the material and not the finishing
technique.
R
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:cb2439e4-0220-45f2-bc64-e91e35073197@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>I just returned from the house of a fellow carpentero that used a new
> product they had at HD. It was a cab ply material that came from
> Ecuador. He showed me some of it, and it looked completely without
> any sign of character, and was so soft that it easily scratched with a
> fingernail. The facings were without blemish, but they were obviously
> cut from some super soft wood that rode easily on the rotary cutters.
>
> He told me he bought it because it was cheap, and was going to be used
> for shelving in a linen closet. How much abrasion did he need to
> worry about from folded towels? Three coats of paint should have done
> all he needed.
>
> But.... a coat of paint proved that wrong. After a good coat of
> latex, the grain swelled to the point it looked like plywood that had
> been left outside for a couple of months. It raised up so high I
> thought he got a nice piece of utility grade and painted it, not "cab
> ply".
>
> He wound up waiting a day for the paint to harden and sanded it all
> down and started over again on the finishing. The grain rose again
> (!!!) but not as much. One more day to dry, then sand, then recoat.
>
> If you see it, don't buy it. It is pure crap for its intended use,
> and I have no doubt many a pro and DIY guy will rue the day they
> bought this crap. It more than doubles the work to use junk like this
> for anything (except maybe fire starter).
>
> I have had more than one philosophical discussion about hitting the
> DIY price point for the consumer with HD managers, but when you pay
> anything for garbage, you simply get screwed, regardless of the price
> paid. Shame on HD. The should at least give you a choice between
> their normal lousy stuff and just outright junk.
>
> The reason my buddy bought this at HD was because our normal supplier
> is about 15 miles from his house, and his old 3/4 ton hoopy gets about
> 8 mpg on a good day. He was thinking that the convenience would be
> offset by the gas savings.
>
> And all he wanted to do was to keep the wife off his back by throwing
> in a few shelves over a couple of evenings.
>
> Robert
I use lacquer high build sanding sealer on all types of wood before I paint
it. Dries fast and sands smooth. Some times I do 2 coats and sanding. Finish
is nice. WW
On 7/13/2011 12:52 PM, Existential Angst wrote:
> A timely post, given some recent sub-threads here on HD, with a surprising
> number here apparently ardent defenders of HD.
Haven't seen anyone here defending HD, but have seen them taking issue
with those who buy any type of wood product, or anything for that
matter, without sufficient knowledge and experience ... particularly in
this day and age.
The worse the global economy gets, and the more the MBA's and bean
counters subvert corporate quality, the more important it becomes to be
an informed buyer.
If you see a hardwood plywood from 'Columbia Forest Products' at HD, by
all means check it out, it just may be a good product/deal at that
particular time ... especially if you are building "green" for a client
and need a low/no formaldehyde product. Two weeks later, the next load
may be shit.
Besides, you make your money when you buy, and that includes buying
quality product, sometimes with blemishes/issues you can work around. :)
(Many years ago, and not that far fetched an example from that concept,
I turned down repeated offers of $15k-$25K for a steer roping horse that
I had purchased for $300. The reason I got him for that price was, being
a trained farrier, I could keep him roping despite a case of chronic
laminitis, something no one without that knowledge and experience could do).
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Jul 13, 3:07=A0pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> =A0The latex paint was the problem, not the wood.
Never indicated, hinted, or thought it was anything else. A quick
read of the header will give you a tremendous clue as to my first
suspect in the problem.
Of course, the post would do the same.
Robert
On Jul 13, 3:35=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> But.... a coat of paint proved that wrong. =A0After a good coat of
> latex, the grain swelled to the point it looked like plywood that had
> been left outside for a couple of months. =A0It raised up so high I
> thought he got a nice piece of utility grade and painted it, not "cab
> ply".
Put all the pieces in the truck and take them back to HD and demand a
refund - if folks accpet such crap, they will continue to sell it. If
we refuse to pay for it they will find another supplier.
On Jul 13, 7:03 am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Did it look like this?:
> https://picasaweb.google.com/karlcaillouet/EWoodShopRetrofit2011#5612...
> "On sale" at HD a couple of months back for the price in the photo, it
> did not exhibit any of the problems your friend noted, but the price
> puts it suspiciously in the same genre. If I recall, the word "cabinet"
> was indeed used on the sign above the rack.
I believe that is the stuff. It sure looks like it from the photo.
The tip off is that there is no figure to the grain and the
consistency of the color.
> The above was bought at one of the most respected hardwood, hardwood
> products dealers in this area, was the same price and same grade ..
> today, you pay's your money and takes your chances.
>
> Unfortunately, in this culture, the same thing your friend found is just
> as liable to happen anywhere, not just the Borg's.
That is certainly true. A couple of years ago I bought some beautiful
birch to make a couple of quick "better than utility" cabinets to
store excess kitchen stuff in a garage. The client wanted better than
a the particle board pre-made stuff, but not full on custom stuff like
you and Leon do. A carcass, shelves, and a door made to fit the space
over their chest freezer. No problem.
I went to the Borg to see what they had. Years before, I had bought
some birch plywood that was quite nice, but had a few voids. The
grain, figure and overall quality made up for the voids, and it worked
well. It was from Chile, so there is really no way of knowing what
kind of wood it was. I should have bought a shop full as it was about
$25 - $26 a sheet, and at the time my hardwood/cabinet supply company
here was at +/- $52 for a sheet of their premium cabinet grade birch.
While it didn't mimic any of the wood grains we see in cabinet making,
it worked as well and finished as well, too. So a home run.
Fast forward. Bought some unmarked stuff about a year ago from HD,
just one sheet, and it looked like birch, but didn't act like it. The
veneer was thin and brittle and it chipped to hell and back when I cut
it. It had a strange pee yellow glue that was in the voids and gave
off a strange odor when I cut it. Probably formaldehyde or something
nasty. I was thinking that this stuff might have come from China. It
was awful, and I wound up using it for backing bars and structure
work, and just went down and bought a sheet from the hardwood guys.
To drive home your point (and my agreement with same), the stuff I got
from them wasn't much better at all and was more than double in
price. So I made a nasty phone call to Gary (my "guy") after using it
and asked him if this was the stuff they used to band the good plywood
(you know, dunnage) for shipping. Man, was he tired of hearing from
contractors and cabinet guys about that plywood. He gave as good as
he got.
Later, he told me that their buyers bought all of this stuff in
auction style lots these days, based on supplied samples. No longer
do they order from a mill or manufacturer for most of their raw
plywood; they buy a container that is sent to a distribution point,
then sent to the local guys. It can *literallly* come from
anywhere. With that in mind, no one sees the product until it is
actually opened here locally. It is covered, banded, and strapped,
then shipped from the point of origin. So Gary doesn't really know
any more than I do about what he is going to get.
They apparently buy it by appearance, not wood type (unless specified)
now. So he has "appearance grade" which is the HD stuff, that has no
blemishes or "footballs" on one side. We knew this at one time as
stain grade. Wood unknown. Properties of wood, unknown. Can be
hardwood or soft, so when you use it you have to buy all you need as
chances of matching it again are very small if you are staining/dying
the wood.
His second line is "utility cabinet grade". We used to know this as
paint grade, and it has a couple of footballs on one side, maybe on
both. But it is also made of mystery wood as well. Sometimes it is
hardwood faced, sometimes soft.
It is bad enough for them at the hardwood/cabinet distributor that
they now have a "no return" policy. If plywood delaminates, they will
take it back. If a board face cracks (as In a massive check) for more
than 25% of its length, they will replace it. Otherwise, you buy it,
it's yours.
And this is actually one of the reasons (along with others) I no
longer want to build cabinets for clients. A one or two off is fine,
but not a kitchen like you do. Back in the 70s, I could calibrate my
framing square from a sheet of cabinet grade material. It was so
expensive to us that we used every tiny scrap, and literally made the
factor saw cuts the side that face the wall. We never squared
anything! But as long as 15 years ago, I bought some American cabinet
grade plywood and did the same thing; the sheets were about 3/8" out
of square, and I didn't check it before laying out and cutting. The
good news is that I was familiar with the layout the second time I set
up to cut, and the bad news is.... well, you know.
Now River City cabinets deals with that, not me. They deal with
scratched faces, polishes (what I called the burnished soft face that
has been pressed down hard when sliding across something smooth),
chips, plywood you have to square carefully before using, splinters,
and appearance inconsistencies. I just hang 'em and spray 'em.
Besides, he can build them for less than I do, and the quality is
good. I can fix just about anything that slips by him.
I guess the reason I posted that last night was that I was really
surprised at how low the quality had sunk on this type of product (in
reality, HD probably doesn't even know) and how much extra work this
product requires. In a way, I feel sorry for the DIY guys that want
to do some nice things around their house. With this kind of
material, you don't stand much of a chance. But it was fair warning
for amateur and pro alike.
Robert
On 7/13/11 1:32 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> ..... Back in the 70s, I could calibrate my
> framing square from a sheet of cabinet grade material. It was so
> expensive to us that we used every tiny scrap, and literally made the
> factor saw cuts the side that face the wall. We never squared
> anything! But as long as 15 years ago, I bought some American cabinet
> grade plywood and did the same thing; the sheets were about 3/8" out
> of square, and I didn't check it before laying out and cutting.
I had a post about this a while back. Now when I buy ply from my
hardwood guy, I check every sheet. They try to quick pitch me and get it
in the van before I do it, but I don't let them. I won't get burned again.
Of course, this is the same place that measures for board feet at the
widest part of the board, not the narrowest..... and they measure the
entire length of a board that has an 8" split on one end. This is all
planed and edged stuff, btw.
Thanks for all that other info, too... good stuff to find out.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
I would consider using shellac as a primer to any water based paint.
Zinser sealcoat for instance. then prime/paint over that.
Solves the water based problem of raising the grain.
On 7/13/2011 5:27 PM, Stuart wrote:
> In article
> <[email protected]>,
> [email protected]<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Jul 13, 7:40 am, Stuart<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>> Why would you use emulsion paint, usually used for painting walls, to
>>> paint shelves, when proper gloss paint would be more usual?
>
>> Assuming this is an honest question and not a troll, here are the
>> reasons.
>
> No it's not a Troll
>
>> Hope that clears things up.
>
> Yup.
>
> My gloss painting isn't much good either, my wife does it when required.
>
> Her father trained as a "coach finisher", back in the days when car bodies
> were often made of wood like coaches used to be - veneering, varnishing
> painting - he taught her to paint.
>
> I like water based paint myself because cleaning is much easier but, as
> you have found out, water can affect some materials.
>