Waterborne poly seems to have some advantages which are not generally
mentioned. In fact, I think it is sort of strange stuff. I don't
particularly care for its water resistance or polishability, but what I
have been doing is to put three coats or so on natural wood, sanding
between coats, and then top it off with one or two coats of oilbase poly
. This gives me something I can rub out, and has extra water resistance
and better luster, and I like the results.
The waterbase stuff dries fast, sands easily, and it doesn't seem to
make any difference if you even wipe off sanding dust, though I usually
do. It seems to redissolve particles of the sanded film. Since I am
not worried about using it for a finish coat, even the occasional sag
doesn't matter, it just sands away cleanly. AND, I have discovered that
it will dissolve (actually sort of wash away if you rub a bit) yellow
glue that didn't quite get sanded off. The solvents in waterbase must
be fierce. They eat away at plastic wood, for instance, and this must
also explain the yellow glue feature.
I think that this material is a truly lazy-friendly product. Have
others noticed these things? It could be brand-specific, I have really
only used Parks "Pro Finisher".
Prometheus wrote:
> Yeah, it is. I think it gets a bad rap- I like the millwork aspect a
> whole lot more than the finishing in woodworking, and waterbourne poly
> gets used a fair amount in my home shop. No complaints from anyone so
> far- in fact, the Wreck is the only place I've ever heard of it being
> so reviled.
Couldn't agree more. If they are thinking of some of the older,
nastier finishes out there from even a few years ago, then it deserves
all the bashing it gets. Likewise, if the bashers are looking at the
big box products, then they probably have a legitimate beef. Chromatic
reflections, blue tints, no abrasion and little water resistance, etc.
all plagued the early finishes of 10 - 15 years ago.
Now with people like ML Cambell, Target, and Oxford in the mix, that
has all changed. According to a couple of factory reps I talked to
here in the last couple of months there are many finishes that have the
same water resistance or better than the solvent based stuff, and
better abrasion resistance. There are a couple that even advertise
that second and third coats will achieve 100% burn in if applied as
directed.
I don't know how it could be done, but then I don't understand the
water bases shellac that Jewitt sells and stand behind on his website,
either. Nor do I understand a qualtiy water based polyurethane.
I like the water based stuff and in the next year or so I will probably
be switching to some brand or another after I test a few of them out.
Low fumes, less toxicity, easier to clean, distilled water for thinner
(not cabinet grade lacquer thinner) along with happier homewowners make
it look pretty attractive to me. Plus, I like the idea that the finish
will always stay clear and never amber or yellow. So if I color match
a door or finish and do a good job, it will always look the same over a
period of years.
Robert
What are there better water based poly products other than the standard
Minwax products sold at HD and Lowes?
Thanks
[email protected] wrote:
> Prometheus wrote:
>
> > Yeah, it is. I think it gets a bad rap- I like the millwork aspect a
> > whole lot more than the finishing in woodworking, and waterbourne poly
> > gets used a fair amount in my home shop. No complaints from anyone so
> > far- in fact, the Wreck is the only place I've ever heard of it being
> > so reviled.
>
> Couldn't agree more. If they are thinking of some of the older,
> nastier finishes out there from even a few years ago, then it deserves
> all the bashing it gets. Likewise, if the bashers are looking at the
> big box products, then they probably have a legitimate beef. Chromatic
> reflections, blue tints, no abrasion and little water resistance, etc.
> all plagued the early finishes of 10 - 15 years ago.
>
> Now with people like ML Cambell, Target, and Oxford in the mix, that
> has all changed. According to a couple of factory reps I talked to
> here in the last couple of months there are many finishes that have the
> same water resistance or better than the solvent based stuff, and
> better abrasion resistance. There are a couple that even advertise
> that second and third coats will achieve 100% burn in if applied as
> directed.
>
> I don't know how it could be done, but then I don't understand the
> water bases shellac that Jewitt sells and stand behind on his website,
> either. Nor do I understand a qualtiy water based polyurethane.
>
> I like the water based stuff and in the next year or so I will probably
> be switching to some brand or another after I test a few of them out.
> Low fumes, less toxicity, easier to clean, distilled water for thinner
> (not cabinet grade lacquer thinner) along with happier homewowners make
> it look pretty attractive to me. Plus, I like the idea that the finish
> will always stay clear and never amber or yellow. So if I color match
> a door or finish and do a good job, it will always look the same over a
> period of years.
>
> Robert
donald girod wrote:
> Waterborne poly seems to have some advantages which are not generally
> mentioned.
I used Waterbased poly for awhile, but I went back to oil, because I
really like the amber tone that oil based gives you. Now I saw an
article where the author puts down one coat of oil poly and then two
coats of water and he claimed to get the same "warmth" that oil alone
gives. I may try it someday, but IMO, it's the same amount of work to
put 3 coats of oil poly as it is 1.
Although, I admit that water based poly is great for small projects.
It's nice to be able to get all your coats of poly on in one day. Even
large projects, the quick drying time is a nice advantage.
vic wrote:
> What are there better water based poly products other than the standard
> Minwax products sold at HD and Lowes?
> Thanks
>
Try www.homesteadfinishing.com and take a look at his products. On
a good day, you can talk to Jeff. I have talked to some that are
switching to the Target water borne products that are widely available
on the net, and may even be available there. I don't know, but I don't
think Jeff Jewitt would sell anything that would ruin or cast a shadow
on his finishing empire, nor do I think he would sell something he
didn't try.
A lot of the kitchen cabinet REfinishers are going to the ML Cambell
(Ultrastar Euro series I think) and with the compatible primers are
having a great amount of success. You can get the Cambell products at
any independent paint store, and some of the chains.
Robert
dadiOH wrote:
> John B wrote:
>> donald girod wrote:
>>> Waterborne poly seems to have some advantages which are not generally
>>> mentioned. In fact, I think it is sort of strange stuff. I don't
>>> particularly care for its water resistance or polishability, but
>>> what I have been doing is to put three coats or so on natural wood,
>>> sanding between coats, and then top it off with one or two coats of
>>> oilbase poly . This gives me something I can rub out, and has extra
>>> water resistance and better luster, and I like the results.
>>>
>>> The waterbase stuff dries fast, sands easily, and it doesn't seem to
>>> make any difference if you even wipe off sanding dust, though I
>>> usually do. It seems to redissolve particles of the sanded film.
>>> Since I am not worried about using it for a finish coat, even the
>>> occasional sag doesn't matter, it just sands away cleanly. AND, I
>>> have discovered that it will dissolve (actually sort of wash away if
>>> you rub a bit) yellow glue that didn't quite get sanded off. The
>>> solvents in waterbase must be fierce. They eat away at plastic wood,
>>> for instance, and this must also explain the yellow glue feature.
>>>
>>> I think that this material is a truly lazy-friendly product. Have
>>> others noticed these things? It could be brand-specific, I have
>>> really only used Parks "Pro Finisher".
>
>> G'day Donald,
>> I have noticed that the water based poly does remove PVA and tend to
>> soften plastic putty. Perhaps they all have a similar solvent thus
>> allowing a re-activation of the former.
>
> Yeah, they do...water.
>
>
Actually, I think it's the polyglycol ethers in the stuff, whatever the
hell they are. It sure isn't the water, because water does not wash
away yellow glue stains, and we hope that water doesn't dissolve the dry
poly film. But the stuff I use (Pro Finisher) definitely bites into
undercoats of itself.
The last I saw my waterborne was as the can floated across my flooded
basement floor.
On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 15:06:55 -0400, donald girod <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Waterborne poly seems to have some advantages which are not generally
>mentioned. In fact, I think it is sort of strange stuff. I don't
>particularly care for its water resistance or polishability, but what I
>have been doing is to put three coats or so on natural wood, sanding
>between coats, and then top it off with one or two coats of oilbase poly
>. This gives me something I can rub out, and has extra water resistance
>and better luster, and I like the results.
>
>The waterbase stuff dries fast, sands easily, and it doesn't seem to
>make any difference if you even wipe off sanding dust, though I usually
>do. It seems to redissolve particles of the sanded film. Since I am
>not worried about using it for a finish coat, even the occasional sag
>doesn't matter, it just sands away cleanly. AND, I have discovered that
>it will dissolve (actually sort of wash away if you rub a bit) yellow
>glue that didn't quite get sanded off. The solvents in waterbase must
>be fierce. They eat away at plastic wood, for instance, and this must
>also explain the yellow glue feature.
>
>I think that this material is a truly lazy-friendly product. Have
>others noticed these things? It could be brand-specific, I have really
>only used Parks "Pro Finisher".
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> Waterborne poly seems to have some advantages which are not generally
> mentioned. In fact, I think it is sort of strange stuff.
>
And disadvantages. I got some last summer, particularly because we have a
timber here in NZ called Totara that will invariably bleed under virtually
every sovent based finish - so I read about water based poly being the
primer/sealer to use on totara (alternatively shellac).
First thing I noticed is that it doesn't flow out of a brush as well as oil
based poly. Second thing I noticed is that you MUST maintain a wet edge. It was
a hot day, I didn't manage a wet edge all along the work and where I painted
over stuff that had half set I got a nasty dull white strip. Not good. Third
thing I noticed is I basically never managed to get it cleaned out of the brush
properly - just glad I hadn't used one of my really expensive finishing brushes
with it -- ended up having to chuck the brush.
I can see how it has its uses as a primer, but it will not be(come) my finish
of choice, especially in summer ...
-Peter
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> This was because I did not
> wait long enough between the tung oil coating and the top coat of poly.
> Once I figured this out, I have been very happy. If you;re in a hurry,
> oil-based polys do not seem to have this problem.
>
Quite. In fact I sometimes concoct a mix of oil based poly, boiled oil and vege
turps and flood it on, wipe off any excess and buff with a lint free cloth once
it stops soaking in and before it gets sticky, and it's touch dry within a
short period of time. Can use as a base for poly, or reapply several times to
get an improved oil-like finish.
-P.
--
=========================================
firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
John B wrote:
> donald girod wrote:
>> Waterborne poly seems to have some advantages which are not generally
>> mentioned. In fact, I think it is sort of strange stuff. I don't
>> particularly care for its water resistance or polishability, but
>> what I have been doing is to put three coats or so on natural wood,
>> sanding between coats, and then top it off with one or two coats of
>> oilbase poly . This gives me something I can rub out, and has extra
>> water resistance and better luster, and I like the results.
>>
>> The waterbase stuff dries fast, sands easily, and it doesn't seem to
>> make any difference if you even wipe off sanding dust, though I
>> usually do. It seems to redissolve particles of the sanded film.
>> Since I am not worried about using it for a finish coat, even the
>> occasional sag doesn't matter, it just sands away cleanly. AND, I
>> have discovered that it will dissolve (actually sort of wash away if
>> you rub a bit) yellow glue that didn't quite get sanded off. The
>> solvents in waterbase must be fierce. They eat away at plastic wood,
>> for instance, and this must also explain the yellow glue feature.
>>
>> I think that this material is a truly lazy-friendly product. Have
>> others noticed these things? It could be brand-specific, I have
>> really only used Parks "Pro Finisher".
> G'day Donald,
> I have noticed that the water based poly does remove PVA and tend to
> soften plastic putty. Perhaps they all have a similar solvent thus
> allowing a re-activation of the former.
Yeah, they do...water.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"vic" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1149337424.786499.137880
@c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> What are there better water based poly products other than the standard
> Minwax products sold at HD and Lowes?
> Thanks
I' ve used General Finishes High Performance Water-based Poly. I chose it
because of low odor (it was winter and I had to use it indoors). At first
I was disappointed because of poor coverage. This was because I did not
wait long enough between the tung oil coating and the top coat of poly.
Once I figured this out, I have been very happy. If you;re in a hurry,
oil-based polys do not seem to have this problem.
donald girod wrote:
> Waterborne poly seems to have some advantages which are not generally
> mentioned. In fact, I think it is sort of strange stuff. I don't
> particularly care for its water resistance or polishability, but what I
> have been doing is to put three coats or so on natural wood, sanding
> between coats, and then top it off with one or two coats of oilbase poly
> . This gives me something I can rub out, and has extra water resistance
> and better luster, and I like the results.
>
> The waterbase stuff dries fast, sands easily, and it doesn't seem to
> make any difference if you even wipe off sanding dust, though I usually
> do. It seems to redissolve particles of the sanded film. Since I am
> not worried about using it for a finish coat, even the occasional sag
> doesn't matter, it just sands away cleanly. AND, I have discovered that
> it will dissolve (actually sort of wash away if you rub a bit) yellow
> glue that didn't quite get sanded off. The solvents in waterbase must
> be fierce. They eat away at plastic wood, for instance, and this must
> also explain the yellow glue feature.
>
> I think that this material is a truly lazy-friendly product. Have
> others noticed these things? It could be brand-specific, I have really
> only used Parks "Pro Finisher".
G'day Donald,
I have noticed that the water based poly does remove PVA and tend to
soften plastic putty. Perhaps they all have a similar solvent thus
allowing a re-activation of the former.
I have just finished sanding and polishing the Jarrah floors in the
lounge, dining room and kitchen. I used a 2 part water based poly and
having used Oil base poly on other projects I'd have to reckon a bloke
would be mad to use oil based. Although the "Hydrathane" was almost
twice the price of standard poly, the 2 hour drying time between coats,
ease of clean-up, lack of smell all make it a winner in my book.
I have used the same stuff many years ago on another floor and used left
overs on furniture. It does a great job and the gloss is controlled by
the number of coats.
Just my 2 bob's worth.
regards
John
On Fri, 02 Jun 2006 15:06:55 -0400, donald girod <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I think that this material is a truly lazy-friendly product. Have
>others noticed these things? It could be brand-specific, I have really
>only used Parks "Pro Finisher".
Yeah, it is. I think it gets a bad rap- I like the millwork aspect a
whole lot more than the finishing in woodworking, and waterbourne poly
gets used a fair amount in my home shop. No complaints from anyone so
far- in fact, the Wreck is the only place I've ever heard of it being
so reviled. Most customers expect it on their finished piece these
days, and will make odd faces if you give them something that has been
finsihed with shellac or similar.
TransTint dyes work in waterbased and many other finishes and some use
a dye to "warm up" the waterbased finishes.
On 3 Jun 2006 10:12:48 -0700, "bf" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>donald girod wrote:
>> Waterborne poly seems to have some advantages which are not generally
>> mentioned.
>
>I used Waterbased poly for awhile, but I went back to oil, because I
>really like the amber tone that oil based gives you. Now I saw an
>article where the author puts down one coat of oil poly and then two
>coats of water and he claimed to get the same "warmth" that oil alone
>gives. I may try it someday, but IMO, it's the same amount of work to
>put 3 coats of oil poly as it is 1.
>
>Although, I admit that water based poly is great for small projects.
>It's nice to be able to get all your coats of poly on in one day. Even
>large projects, the quick drying time is a nice advantage.