Aluminum trim piece that fits around side auto window came unattached.
There is relatively firm, hard black *rubber* to completely support it.
What adhesive will provide suitable method of reattachment?
Recall that I live in Indiana, a cold winter state that gets hot in the
summer.
Thank you!
Bill
P.S. My carpal-tunnel symptoms are getting better (my "attitude" seems
to run in sinc with it).
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 23:42:13 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 6/4/2014 11:16 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 10:39:56 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> Trim adhesive.(3m trim and weatherstrip is one that works pretty well
>> - but be carefull - it is yellow and sticks like snot!!! It is
>> flexible. Epoxy doesn't work worth crap for fastening shiny trim to
>> rubber, from many years of past experience
>>
>
>And shockingly that yellow 3M trim and weatherstrip adhesive was
>"EXTENSIVELY: used as a gasket sealant. There is and has been a black
>version available for quite some time now.
I remember the yellow 3M from 1956. I always thought of it as 'That
sticky stuff' from hell'. I don't suppose they ever changed the
formula
"Bill" wrote:
> Aluminum trim piece that fits around side auto window came
> unattached.
> There is relatively firm, hard black *rubber* to completely support
> it.
>
> What adhesive will provide suitable method of reattachment?
> Recall that I live in Indiana, a cold winter state that gets hot in
> the summer.
---------------------------------------------
So what does the dealer suggest?
Lew
---
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<[email protected]> wrote:
> Trim adhesive.(3m trim and weatherstrip is one that works pretty
> well
> - but be carefull - it is yellow and sticks like snot!!! It is
> flexible. Epoxy doesn't work worth crap for fastening shiny trim to
> rubber, from many years of past experience
---------------------------------------------
Sounds like this would be a good application for 3M5200 marine
sealant. (HomeDepot has it)
Once it cures, a heat gun is the only way to break it loose.
Lew
---
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http://www.avast.com
On 6/4/2014 11:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 02:41:38 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>> "Bill" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Aluminum trim piece that fits around side auto window came
>>>> unattached.
>>>> There is relatively firm, hard black *rubber* to completely support
>>>> it.
>>>>
>>>> What adhesive will provide suitable method of reattachment?
>>>> Recall that I live in Indiana, a cold winter state that gets hot in
>>>> the summer.
>>> ---------------------------------------------
>>> So what does the dealer suggest?
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>> They'd probably like to have me bring it in, and sell me a brand new
>> piece to go under the piece of trim--wheels and all!
>> I count my blessings I didn't loose the trim piece or it would probably
>> be a $150 repair! They charged me more than that
>> to "fix" an electric window so that it would never open again. And I had
>> to pay that twice in a month.
>>
>> Calling the dealer is an interesting thought though. If you go to visit
>> them, they charge $80 as soon as they pull out a piece of paper
>> and write your name on it. They made the car though (Buick), maybe they
>> will help in the name of goodwill.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Bill
>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>
> 25 years ago I figured it out (when working as a service manager) and
> at that time, the cost to process a work order, from start to finish -
> including the cost of the printed form, was $25. That was pre computer
> - using a "cardex"ystem.
>
> It pissed of the dealer principal, but if a job wasn't worth $25 I
> usually didn't bother making a work order or charging the
> customer.Made for some very happy customers, who ALWAYS came back!!!
>
And what would it have cost the dealer had something happened to the
vehicle while doing the freebee work?
In Texas we did not dare not write a repair order for a customer. The
customers vehicle was not covered by our insurance unless there was a
repair order written for the vehicle. Writing up an average of 15,000
vehicles per year there was always some accident that happened in the
shop a few times a year.
So did you give away oil changes? We did them for $19.95.
On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 02:41:38 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Bill" wrote:
>>
>>> Aluminum trim piece that fits around side auto window came
>>> unattached.
>>> There is relatively firm, hard black *rubber* to completely support
>>> it.
>>>
>>> What adhesive will provide suitable method of reattachment?
>>> Recall that I live in Indiana, a cold winter state that gets hot in
>>> the summer.
>> ---------------------------------------------
>> So what does the dealer suggest?
>>
>> Lew
>>
>They'd probably like to have me bring it in, and sell me a brand new
>piece to go under the piece of trim--wheels and all!
>I count my blessings I didn't loose the trim piece or it would probably
>be a $150 repair! They charged me more than that
>to "fix" an electric window so that it would never open again. And I had
>to pay that twice in a month.
>
>Calling the dealer is an interesting thought though. If you go to visit
>them, they charge $80 as soon as they pull out a piece of paper
>and write your name on it. They made the car though (Buick), maybe they
>will help in the name of goodwill.
>
>Cheers,
>Bill
>
>>
>> ---
>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
>> http://www.avast.com
>>
25 years ago I figured it out (when working as a service manager) and
at that time, the cost to process a work order, from start to finish -
including the cost of the printed form, was $25. That was pre computer
- using a "cardex"ystem.
It pissed of the dealer principal, but if a job wasn't worth $25 I
usually didn't bother making a work order or charging the
customer.Made for some very happy customers, who ALWAYS came back!!!
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 23:50:36 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 6/4/2014 11:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 02:41:38 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>> "Bill" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Aluminum trim piece that fits around side auto window came
>>>>> unattached.
>>>>> There is relatively firm, hard black *rubber* to completely support
>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> What adhesive will provide suitable method of reattachment?
>>>>> Recall that I live in Indiana, a cold winter state that gets hot in
>>>>> the summer.
>>>> ---------------------------------------------
>>>> So what does the dealer suggest?
>>>>
>>>> Lew
>>>>
>>> They'd probably like to have me bring it in, and sell me a brand new
>>> piece to go under the piece of trim--wheels and all!
>>> I count my blessings I didn't loose the trim piece or it would probably
>>> be a $150 repair! They charged me more than that
>>> to "fix" an electric window so that it would never open again. And I had
>>> to pay that twice in a month.
>>>
>>> Calling the dealer is an interesting thought though. If you go to visit
>>> them, they charge $80 as soon as they pull out a piece of paper
>>> and write your name on it. They made the car though (Buick), maybe they
>>> will help in the name of goodwill.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
>>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>>
>> 25 years ago I figured it out (when working as a service manager) and
>> at that time, the cost to process a work order, from start to finish -
>> including the cost of the printed form, was $25. That was pre computer
>> - using a "cardex"ystem.
>>
>> It pissed of the dealer principal, but if a job wasn't worth $25 I
>> usually didn't bother making a work order or charging the
>> customer.Made for some very happy customers, who ALWAYS came back!!!
>>
>And what would it have cost the dealer had something happened to the
>vehicle while doing the freebee work?
>
>In Texas we did not dare not write a repair order for a customer. The
>customers vehicle was not covered by our insurance unless there was a
>repair order written for the vehicle. Writing up an average of 15,000
>vehicles per year there was always some accident that happened in the
>shop a few times a year.
>
>So did you give away oil changes? We did them for $19.95.
>
No, oil changes and such were charged for. Any parts involved, it was
billed. Things like installing wiper blades, freeing up the
ever-present sticky door handle, replacing a tail light bulb (customer
buys it at the parts counter - I put it in)
We had the best retention and the best absorption in the local area,
and not just for our brand. Twenty six years ago the litigation
situation was a lot different in Canada too.
On 6/4/2014 11:16 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 10:39:56 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>
>>>> Aluminum trim piece that fits around side auto window came unattached.
>>>> There is relatively firm, hard black *rubber* to completely support
>>>> it.
>>> Was it just stuck on Bill, or were there plastic tabs that locked into
>>> holes/slots in the door?
>> Thank you for your reply, Mike.
>> It is U-shaped, fitting on a hard rubber support around the window.
>> Noticing it sticking out as I was driving down the road,
>> I pulled over and all but the bottom was loose. I pulled it free,
>> cracking 3 plastic connectors at their ends I think. I'll look closer
>> but it was not clear by looking at the trim piece how they were attached.
>> It clearly won't go back on exactly the way it was. I am fortunate that
>> it has a "flush" fit with a gluing surface. I don't have much
>> to lose by trying an adhesive. I once (successfully) epoxied a
>> headlight cover, that had some how split into two pieces, and saved a
>> bit of money I'm sure. This is a different repair
>> but in the same spirit. I suspect you wouldn't be going to the
>> dealership over it either. I may have mentioned before, I paid their
>> parts department $18 for
>> a volume control knob for the radio.
>>
>> A lot of rain and Lightning in Indiana today (it makes the grass grow fast).
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>>
>>> Usually they have tabs to lock them in place. If
>>> that's the case, and if yours has broken tabs, you're generally best off
>>> getting a replacement from the dealer - and they can be pretty proud of
>>> those kinds of things. You can try 3M double sided tape. It will work even
>>> in the worst of weather. Don't get the stuff that is like two sided scotch
>>> tape - go to your local automotive retail store like Advance Auto or the
>>> likes, and get the stuff they sell - it is much thicker and much stronger.
>>> The only problem is that because it is thicker, the belt molding won't lay
>>> down properly with the tape under it, if it was supposed to lock in with
>>> tabs.
>>>
>>>> What adhesive will provide suitable method of reattachment?
>>>> Recall that I live in Indiana, a cold winter state that gets hot in
>>>> the summer.
>>> I just use the tape when I have to reattach body side moldings and the
>>> likes. That's pretty much what they use in the factory.
>>>
>>> If your belt moldings were taped on from the factory, just make sure to
>>> completely remove all of the original stuff from both surfaces and clean
>>> both surfaces well for good adhesion.
>>>
>>> Otherwise, if you are just trying to glue this back in place to save the
>>> money, and if two sided tape is not the appropriate address, then you could
>>> epoxy them in place with just small dabs of epoxy where the tabs used to be.
>>>
> Trim adhesive.(3m trim and weatherstrip is one that works pretty well
> - but be carefull - it is yellow and sticks like snot!!! It is
> flexible. Epoxy doesn't work worth crap for fastening shiny trim to
> rubber, from many years of past experience
>
And shockingly that yellow 3M trim and weatherstrip adhesive was
"EXTENSIVELY: used as a gasket sealant. There is and has been a black
version available for quite some time now.
On 6/6/2014 4:56 AM, Gray_Wolf wrote:
> On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 23:42:13 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/4/2014 11:16 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 10:39:56 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>
>>> Trim adhesive.(3m trim and weatherstrip is one that works pretty well
>>> - but be carefull - it is yellow and sticks like snot!!! It is
>>> flexible. Epoxy doesn't work worth crap for fastening shiny trim to
>>> rubber, from many years of past experience
>>>
>>
>> And shockingly that yellow 3M trim and weatherstrip adhesive was
>> "EXTENSIVELY: used as a gasket sealant. There is and has been a black
>> version available for quite some time now.
>
>
> I remember the yellow 3M from 1956. I always thought of it as 'That
> sticky stuff' from hell'. I don't suppose they ever changed the
> formula
>
I used to work for a 3M distributor in the late 80's and mid 90's, Old
Yeller was starting to give way to the Black version for it's intended
use and engines were becoming much more complicated in respect to what
type of gasket sealer was used for what on an engine. Anaerobic and
Aerobic sealers were being spec'ed as engines became more complicated.
I doubt that 3M ever changed the formula as it was only designed to do
what the label mentioned.
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 23:42:13 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 6/4/2014 11:16 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 10:39:56 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> Bill wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Aluminum trim piece that fits around side auto window came unattached.
>>>>> There is relatively firm, hard black *rubber* to completely support
>>>>> it.
>>>> Was it just stuck on Bill, or were there plastic tabs that locked into
>>>> holes/slots in the door?
>>> Thank you for your reply, Mike.
>>> It is U-shaped, fitting on a hard rubber support around the window.
>>> Noticing it sticking out as I was driving down the road,
>>> I pulled over and all but the bottom was loose. I pulled it free,
>>> cracking 3 plastic connectors at their ends I think. I'll look closer
>>> but it was not clear by looking at the trim piece how they were attached.
>>> It clearly won't go back on exactly the way it was. I am fortunate that
>>> it has a "flush" fit with a gluing surface. I don't have much
>>> to lose by trying an adhesive. I once (successfully) epoxied a
>>> headlight cover, that had some how split into two pieces, and saved a
>>> bit of money I'm sure. This is a different repair
>>> but in the same spirit. I suspect you wouldn't be going to the
>>> dealership over it either. I may have mentioned before, I paid their
>>> parts department $18 for
>>> a volume control knob for the radio.
>>>
>>> A lot of rain and Lightning in Indiana today (it makes the grass grow fast).
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Usually they have tabs to lock them in place. If
>>>> that's the case, and if yours has broken tabs, you're generally best off
>>>> getting a replacement from the dealer - and they can be pretty proud of
>>>> those kinds of things. You can try 3M double sided tape. It will work even
>>>> in the worst of weather. Don't get the stuff that is like two sided scotch
>>>> tape - go to your local automotive retail store like Advance Auto or the
>>>> likes, and get the stuff they sell - it is much thicker and much stronger.
>>>> The only problem is that because it is thicker, the belt molding won't lay
>>>> down properly with the tape under it, if it was supposed to lock in with
>>>> tabs.
>>>>
>>>>> What adhesive will provide suitable method of reattachment?
>>>>> Recall that I live in Indiana, a cold winter state that gets hot in
>>>>> the summer.
>>>> I just use the tape when I have to reattach body side moldings and the
>>>> likes. That's pretty much what they use in the factory.
>>>>
>>>> If your belt moldings were taped on from the factory, just make sure to
>>>> completely remove all of the original stuff from both surfaces and clean
>>>> both surfaces well for good adhesion.
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise, if you are just trying to glue this back in place to save the
>>>> money, and if two sided tape is not the appropriate address, then you could
>>>> epoxy them in place with just small dabs of epoxy where the tabs used to be.
>>>>
>> Trim adhesive.(3m trim and weatherstrip is one that works pretty well
>> - but be carefull - it is yellow and sticks like snot!!! It is
>> flexible. Epoxy doesn't work worth crap for fastening shiny trim to
>> rubber, from many years of past experience
>>
>
>And shockingly that yellow 3M trim and weatherstrip adhesive was
>"EXTENSIVELY: used as a gasket sealant. There is and has been a black
>version available for quite some time now.
Not so much as a gasket "sealer" but to hold the gasket in place
long enough to assemble the engine around it!!! used to use it to hold
valve cover gaskets in place on SBCs and the Mopar "leaning tower of
power" and oil pan gaskets on automatic transmissions on "Mercury
Mystakes" (the pan was vertical instead of horizontal) among other
applications.
IIRC it was referred to as "elephant snot" in several of the shops
where I worked.
On 6/7/2014 3:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Jun 2014 10:20:40 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 6/7/2014 9:14 AM, Leon wrote:
>>
>>> Typically a work order always has a customers signature. You screw up a
>>> customer's car he or his insurance company is going to take you to court
>>> if you don't make things right. Your insurance company is not going to
>>> protect you if you damage a persons car and during this visit if he is
>>> not legitimately a paying customer and with out proper documentation.
>>> With out his signature authorizing to diagnose or repair the vehicle
>>> you have no proof that the work was authorized.
>>> And to go a bit further with that, the insurance company company will
>>> validate the amount of coverage you are buying by the number or work
>>> orders that you are writing. They do review your volume when setting
>>> your rates.
>>> we
>>> wrote a work order up for our protection. We still had total control
>>> over whether or not we charged the customer or not. The cost to us to
>>> write that work order, 15 cents. Every one involved that was paid by
>>> the clock or was on the salary still got paid whether the work order was
>>> written or not. So writing the work order for the dealers protection
>>> did not cost him any more than the 15 cent work order.
>>
>> And, in the event of the necessity, it makes for an an unquestionably
>> valid Mechanic's/Materialmen's lien.
> I agree - if you are doing work and charging for it, you need an
> ACCURATE SIGNED work order.
>
> But if I free up a customer's sticky door handle and don'r write a
> work order and don't charge for it, what liability do I have? The guy
> has to be a jerk to try to claim any damages and he has no proof I did
> anything, authorized or not, and he hasn't paid me anything.
If you do anything to the vehicle and for what ever reason and there are
damages you are liable plain and simple. That does not necessarily mean
that the vehicle is damaged as a result of your handling. There are
dozens of thing that could happen inside the shop. A mechanic backs
into the vehicle with another vehicle. Air hose develops a leak and
beats the day lights out of the vehicle. While not likely to happen, it
does happen. The busier the shop, the more likely. I know, you are
being very careful and following all the safety rules but shit happens
and you are responsible simply because you chose to did something.
His proof will be the damage and a shop full of mechanics that witness
the incident.
Writing the work order protects you.
>
> Wouldn't go far in court.
It probably would not make it to court, the dealer would handle it
internally an pay out of his pocket. Keep in mind that I am not talking
about a faulty repair so much as something totally unrelated happening
to damage the car. For example the customer brings rear view mirror
adhesive into the service drive and asks to have the mirror base reglued
to the windshield. You don't write a work order, get in the vehicle to
move it out of line and open the door against a metal post that protects
the building. The door is scratched and or dented. You are liable to
repair the vehicle whether you were going to charge for regulating the
mirror base or not. That absolutely will go against you in a court hearing.
>
> As for Mechanic's lien, what lien do you put on a car for something
> no-one can prove you did and you didn't charge for????? The red
> herrings are starting to look like Asian Carp in the mississipi!!!
>
I mentioned nothing about a lien. but as Swingman mentioned, if you
have the signature on the work order and do the work the customer is
liable to pay for the repairs whether the vehicle is damaged or not.
Technically if you repair the vehicle before a work order is signed the
customer is under no obligation to pay the bill. He can simply deny
that he authorized the repairs. That too will hold up in a court hearing.
It is just too much of a risk to not have a 15 cent repair order signed
whether you charge for the repair or not.
On Wed, 4 Jun 2014 17:35:18 -0600, "WW" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>
>"Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>
>Aluminum trim piece that fits around side auto window came unattached.
>There is relatively firm, hard black *rubber* to completely support it.
>
>What adhesive will provide suitable method of reattachment?
>Recall that I live in Indiana, a cold winter state that gets hot in the
>summer.
>
>Thank you!
>Bill
>
>P.S. My carpal-tunnel symptoms are getting better (my "attitude" seems
>to run in sinc with it).
>
>Check with a good body repairman. I would just use contact cement like I
>use putting Formica on wood. Coat each surface with the cement Then let it
>dry. This makes a good surface contact. Then recoat again and let it dry
>and position in place. Must get it right on the first contact as you will
>not be able to remove it again. WW
What year and model? exactly which trim peice? would help.
On 6/6/2014 10:44 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Jun 2014 08:15:05 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 6/5/2014 11:50 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 6/4/2014 11:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 02:41:38 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>>>> "Bill" wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Aluminum trim piece that fits around side auto window came
>>>>>>> unattached.
>>>>>>> There is relatively firm, hard black *rubber* to completely support
>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What adhesive will provide suitable method of reattachment?
>>>>>>> Recall that I live in Indiana, a cold winter state that gets hot in
>>>>>>> the summer.
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------
>>>>>> So what does the dealer suggest?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lew
>>>>>>
>>>>> They'd probably like to have me bring it in, and sell me a brand new
>>>>> piece to go under the piece of trim--wheels and all!
>>>>> I count my blessings I didn't loose the trim piece or it would probably
>>>>> be a $150 repair! They charged me more than that
>>>>> to "fix" an electric window so that it would never open again. And I had
>>>>> to pay that twice in a month.
>>>>>
>>>>> Calling the dealer is an interesting thought though. If you go to visit
>>>>> them, they charge $80 as soon as they pull out a piece of paper
>>>>> and write your name on it. They made the car though (Buick), maybe they
>>>>> will help in the name of goodwill.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Bill
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---
>>>>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>>>>>> protection is active.
>>>>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>>>>
>>>> 25 years ago I figured it out (when working as a service manager) and
>>>> at that time, the cost to process a work order, from start to finish -
>>>> including the cost of the printed form, was $25. That was pre computer
>>>> - using a "cardex"ystem.
>>>>
>>>> It pissed of the dealer principal, but if a job wasn't worth $25 I
>>>> usually didn't bother making a work order or charging the
>>>> customer.Made for some very happy customers, who ALWAYS came back!!!
>>>>
>>> And what would it have cost the dealer had something happened to the
>>> vehicle while doing the freebee work?
>>>
>>> In Texas we did not dare not write a repair order for a customer. The
>>> customers vehicle was not covered by our insurance unless there was a
>>> repair order written for the vehicle. Writing up an average of 15,000
>>> vehicles per year there was always some accident that happened in the
>>> shop a few times a year.
>>>
>>> So did you give away oil changes? We did them for $19.95.
>>>
>>>
>> And just one more point. While you determined that the dealership
>> average cost to write a repair order was $25 you not writing a repair
>> order and giving the work away added to that average $25 cost.
>> Employees still got paid, electric bills in the shop still got paid,
>> rent was still paid, whether you charged the customer or not. All of
>> those operating expenses are what contribute to the average cost of the RO.
>>
>>
> And what proof would anyone have in court that anything had been done
> without a work order?
Typically a work order always has a customers signature. You screw up a
customer's car he or his insurance company is going to take you to court
if you don't make things right. Your insurance company is not going to
protect you if you damage a persons car and during this visit if he is
not legitimately a paying customer and with out proper documentation.
With out his signature authorizing to diagnose or repair the vehicle
you have no proof that the work was authorized.
And to go a bit further with that, the insurance company company will
validate the amount of coverage you are buying by the number or work
orders that you are writing. They do review your volume when setting
your rates.
>
> And to be fair - not EVERY job that was less than $25 didn't get a
> work order. The shop was always busy with paying jobs, and the
> clerical workers were always occupied even without handling the
> non-existant work orders.
Understood but you said that you "usually" did not bother making a work
order if the repair was not worth $25. I understood that to be the norm
and it would be unusual for you to write a work order for work not worth
$25.
> Just saying not every garage/dealership is a rip-off. Many dealers DO
> look after simple things like that as "good will" because in the long
> run it makes them more money, not less.
>
I absolutely would agree but just because you charge for all of your
services does not constitute a repair facility as being a rip off.
And I certainly understand customer good will and my dealer encouraged
the same. Even if we did as you did and not charge for say picking the
vehicle up on a lift to inspect it with no intention of charging, we
wrote a work order up for our protection. We still had total control
over whether or not we charged the customer or not. The cost to us to
write that work order, 15 cents. Every one involved that was paid by
the clock or was on the salary still got paid whether the work order was
written or not. So writing the work order for the dealers protection
did not cost him any more than the 15 cent work order.
On 6/7/2014 9:14 AM, Leon wrote:
> Typically a work order always has a customers signature. You screw up a
> customer's car he or his insurance company is going to take you to court
> if you don't make things right. Your insurance company is not going to
> protect you if you damage a persons car and during this visit if he is
> not legitimately a paying customer and with out proper documentation.
> With out his signature authorizing to diagnose or repair the vehicle
> you have no proof that the work was authorized.
> And to go a bit further with that, the insurance company company will
> validate the amount of coverage you are buying by the number or work
> orders that you are writing. They do review your volume when setting
> your rates.
> we
> wrote a work order up for our protection. We still had total control
> over whether or not we charged the customer or not. The cost to us to
> write that work order, 15 cents. Every one involved that was paid by
> the clock or was on the salary still got paid whether the work order was
> written or not. So writing the work order for the dealers protection
> did not cost him any more than the 15 cent work order.
And, in the event of the necessity, it makes for an an unquestionably
valid Mechanic's/Materialmen's lien.
--
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On Thu, 05 Jun 2014 00:50:22 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> Trim adhesive.(3m trim and weatherstrip is one that works pretty well
>> - but be carefull - it is yellow and sticks like snot!!! It is
>> flexible. Epoxy doesn't work worth crap for fastening shiny trim to
>> rubber, from many years of past experience
>
>Several turned up by 3M when I searched last night. I anticipate that
>the auto parts store ought to have the right one (though I didn't find
>what I was looking for when I sent to the retailer's web site).
>
>Thanks,
>Bill
Contact 3m and they will tell you which of their products is
recommended for the job. I always found their application support to
be very good to excellent.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Bill" wrote:
>
>> Aluminum trim piece that fits around side auto window came
>> unattached.
>> There is relatively firm, hard black *rubber* to completely support
>> it.
>>
>> What adhesive will provide suitable method of reattachment?
>> Recall that I live in Indiana, a cold winter state that gets hot in
>> the summer.
> ---------------------------------------------
> So what does the dealer suggest?
>
> Lew
>
They'd probably like to have me bring it in, and sell me a brand new
piece to go under the piece of trim--wheels and all!
I count my blessings I didn't loose the trim piece or it would probably
be a $150 repair! They charged me more than that
to "fix" an electric window so that it would never open again. And I had
to pay that twice in a month.
Calling the dealer is an interesting thought though. If you go to visit
them, they charge $80 as soon as they pull out a piece of paper
and write your name on it. They made the car though (Buick), maybe they
will help in the name of goodwill.
Cheers,
Bill
>
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
>
Bill wrote:
> Aluminum trim piece that fits around side auto window came unattached.
> There is relatively firm, hard black *rubber* to completely support
> it.
Was it just stuck on Bill, or were there plastic tabs that locked into
holes/slots in the door? Usually they have tabs to lock them in place. If
that's the case, and if yours has broken tabs, you're generally best off
getting a replacement from the dealer - and they can be pretty proud of
those kinds of things. You can try 3M double sided tape. It will work even
in the worst of weather. Don't get the stuff that is like two sided scotch
tape - go to your local automotive retail store like Advance Auto or the
likes, and get the stuff they sell - it is much thicker and much stronger.
The only problem is that because it is thicker, the belt molding won't lay
down properly with the tape under it, if it was supposed to lock in with
tabs.
>
> What adhesive will provide suitable method of reattachment?
> Recall that I live in Indiana, a cold winter state that gets hot in
> the summer.
I just use the tape when I have to reattach body side moldings and the
likes. That's pretty much what they use in the factory.
If your belt moldings were taped on from the factory, just make sure to
completely remove all of the original stuff from both surfaces and clean
both surfaces well for good adhesion.
Otherwise, if you are just trying to glue this back in place to save the
money, and if two sided tape is not the appropriate address, then you could
epoxy them in place with just small dabs of epoxy where the tabs used to be.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Mike Marlow wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>
>> Aluminum trim piece that fits around side auto window came unattached.
>> There is relatively firm, hard black *rubber* to completely support
>> it.
> Was it just stuck on Bill, or were there plastic tabs that locked into
> holes/slots in the door?
Thank you for your reply, Mike.
It is U-shaped, fitting on a hard rubber support around the window.
Noticing it sticking out as I was driving down the road,
I pulled over and all but the bottom was loose. I pulled it free,
cracking 3 plastic connectors at their ends I think. I'll look closer
but it was not clear by looking at the trim piece how they were attached.
It clearly won't go back on exactly the way it was. I am fortunate that
it has a "flush" fit with a gluing surface. I don't have much
to lose by trying an adhesive. I once (successfully) epoxied a
headlight cover, that had some how split into two pieces, and saved a
bit of money I'm sure. This is a different repair
but in the same spirit. I suspect you wouldn't be going to the
dealership over it either. I may have mentioned before, I paid their
parts department $18 for
a volume control knob for the radio.
A lot of rain and Lightning in Indiana today (it makes the grass grow fast).
Bill
> Usually they have tabs to lock them in place. If
> that's the case, and if yours has broken tabs, you're generally best off
> getting a replacement from the dealer - and they can be pretty proud of
> those kinds of things. You can try 3M double sided tape. It will work even
> in the worst of weather. Don't get the stuff that is like two sided scotch
> tape - go to your local automotive retail store like Advance Auto or the
> likes, and get the stuff they sell - it is much thicker and much stronger.
> The only problem is that because it is thicker, the belt molding won't lay
> down properly with the tape under it, if it was supposed to lock in with
> tabs.
>
>> What adhesive will provide suitable method of reattachment?
>> Recall that I live in Indiana, a cold winter state that gets hot in
>> the summer.
> I just use the tape when I have to reattach body side moldings and the
> likes. That's pretty much what they use in the factory.
>
> If your belt moldings were taped on from the factory, just make sure to
> completely remove all of the original stuff from both surfaces and clean
> both surfaces well for good adhesion.
>
> Otherwise, if you are just trying to glue this back in place to save the
> money, and if two sided tape is not the appropriate address, then you could
> epoxy them in place with just small dabs of epoxy where the tabs used to be.
>
Bill wrote:
> Thank you for your reply, Mike.
> It is U-shaped, fitting on a hard rubber support around the window.
> Noticing it sticking out as I was driving down the road,
> I pulled over and all but the bottom was loose. I pulled it free,
> cracking 3 plastic connectors at their ends I think. I'll look closer
> but it was not clear by looking at the trim piece how they were
> attached. It clearly won't go back on exactly the way it was. I am
> fortunate that it has a "flush" fit with a gluing surface. I don't have
> much
> to lose by trying an adhesive. I once (successfully) epoxied a
> headlight cover, that had some how split into two pieces, and saved a
> bit of money I'm sure. This is a different repair
> but in the same spirit. I suspect you wouldn't be going to the
> dealership over it either. I may have mentioned before, I paid their
> parts department $18 for
> a volume control knob for the radio.
>
Can probably help you through this Bill, in a very acceptable way - not just
a hack, if you know what I mean. Email me some pics of the thing and we'll
take this dialog to email/off-line.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 6/4/2014 8:29 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>>
>> I just use the tape when I have to reattach body side moldings and
>> the likes. That's pretty much what they use in the factory.
>>
>
> But doesn't that cover the molding? Or do you put the duct tape in
> strips across it, say every 12" or so?
I have a hard time lining up the strips so I just keep gobbing it on until
it looks good from here...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
[email protected] wrote:
> Trim adhesive.(3m trim and weatherstrip is one that works pretty well
> - but be carefull - it is yellow and sticks like snot!!! It is
> flexible. Epoxy doesn't work worth crap for fastening shiny trim to
> rubber, from many years of past experience
Several turned up by 3M when I searched last night. I anticipate that
the auto parts store ought to have the right one (though I didn't find
what I was looking for when I sent to the retailer's web site).
Thanks,
Bill
On Sat, 07 Jun 2014 10:20:40 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 6/7/2014 9:14 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>> Typically a work order always has a customers signature. You screw up a
>> customer's car he or his insurance company is going to take you to court
>> if you don't make things right. Your insurance company is not going to
>> protect you if you damage a persons car and during this visit if he is
>> not legitimately a paying customer and with out proper documentation.
>> With out his signature authorizing to diagnose or repair the vehicle
>> you have no proof that the work was authorized.
>> And to go a bit further with that, the insurance company company will
>> validate the amount of coverage you are buying by the number or work
>> orders that you are writing. They do review your volume when setting
>> your rates.
>> we
>> wrote a work order up for our protection. We still had total control
>> over whether or not we charged the customer or not. The cost to us to
>> write that work order, 15 cents. Every one involved that was paid by
>> the clock or was on the salary still got paid whether the work order was
>> written or not. So writing the work order for the dealers protection
>> did not cost him any more than the 15 cent work order.
>
>And, in the event of the necessity, it makes for an an unquestionably
>valid Mechanic's/Materialmen's lien.
I agree - if you are doing work and charging for it, you need an
ACCURATE SIGNED work order.
But if I free up a customer's sticky door handle and don'r write a
work order and don't charge for it, what liability do I have? The guy
has to be a jerk to try to claim any damages and he has no proof I did
anything, authorized or not, and he hasn't paid me anything.
Wouldn't go far in court.
As for Mechanic's lien, what lien do you put on a car for something
no-one can prove you did and you didn't charge for????? The red
herrings are starting to look like Asian Carp in the mississipi!!!
On 6/5/2014 11:50 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 6/4/2014 11:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 02:41:38 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>> "Bill" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Aluminum trim piece that fits around side auto window came
>>>>> unattached.
>>>>> There is relatively firm, hard black *rubber* to completely support
>>>>> it.
>>>>>
>>>>> What adhesive will provide suitable method of reattachment?
>>>>> Recall that I live in Indiana, a cold winter state that gets hot in
>>>>> the summer.
>>>> ---------------------------------------------
>>>> So what does the dealer suggest?
>>>>
>>>> Lew
>>>>
>>> They'd probably like to have me bring it in, and sell me a brand new
>>> piece to go under the piece of trim--wheels and all!
>>> I count my blessings I didn't loose the trim piece or it would probably
>>> be a $150 repair! They charged me more than that
>>> to "fix" an electric window so that it would never open again. And I had
>>> to pay that twice in a month.
>>>
>>> Calling the dealer is an interesting thought though. If you go to visit
>>> them, they charge $80 as soon as they pull out a piece of paper
>>> and write your name on it. They made the car though (Buick), maybe they
>>> will help in the name of goodwill.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Bill
>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---
>>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>>>> protection is active.
>>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>>
>> 25 years ago I figured it out (when working as a service manager) and
>> at that time, the cost to process a work order, from start to finish -
>> including the cost of the printed form, was $25. That was pre computer
>> - using a "cardex"ystem.
>>
>> It pissed of the dealer principal, but if a job wasn't worth $25 I
>> usually didn't bother making a work order or charging the
>> customer.Made for some very happy customers, who ALWAYS came back!!!
>>
> And what would it have cost the dealer had something happened to the
> vehicle while doing the freebee work?
>
> In Texas we did not dare not write a repair order for a customer. The
> customers vehicle was not covered by our insurance unless there was a
> repair order written for the vehicle. Writing up an average of 15,000
> vehicles per year there was always some accident that happened in the
> shop a few times a year.
>
> So did you give away oil changes? We did them for $19.95.
>
>
And just one more point. While you determined that the dealership
average cost to write a repair order was $25 you not writing a repair
order and giving the work away added to that average $25 cost.
Employees still got paid, electric bills in the shop still got paid,
rent was still paid, whether you charged the customer or not. All of
those operating expenses are what contribute to the average cost of the RO.
On Fri, 06 Jun 2014 08:15:05 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 6/5/2014 11:50 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 6/4/2014 11:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 02:41:38 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>>> "Bill" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Aluminum trim piece that fits around side auto window came
>>>>>> unattached.
>>>>>> There is relatively firm, hard black *rubber* to completely support
>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What adhesive will provide suitable method of reattachment?
>>>>>> Recall that I live in Indiana, a cold winter state that gets hot in
>>>>>> the summer.
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------
>>>>> So what does the dealer suggest?
>>>>>
>>>>> Lew
>>>>>
>>>> They'd probably like to have me bring it in, and sell me a brand new
>>>> piece to go under the piece of trim--wheels and all!
>>>> I count my blessings I didn't loose the trim piece or it would probably
>>>> be a $150 repair! They charged me more than that
>>>> to "fix" an electric window so that it would never open again. And I had
>>>> to pay that twice in a month.
>>>>
>>>> Calling the dealer is an interesting thought though. If you go to visit
>>>> them, they charge $80 as soon as they pull out a piece of paper
>>>> and write your name on it. They made the car though (Buick), maybe they
>>>> will help in the name of goodwill.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Bill
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ---
>>>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
>>>>> protection is active.
>>>>> http://www.avast.com
>>>>>
>>> 25 years ago I figured it out (when working as a service manager) and
>>> at that time, the cost to process a work order, from start to finish -
>>> including the cost of the printed form, was $25. That was pre computer
>>> - using a "cardex"ystem.
>>>
>>> It pissed of the dealer principal, but if a job wasn't worth $25 I
>>> usually didn't bother making a work order or charging the
>>> customer.Made for some very happy customers, who ALWAYS came back!!!
>>>
>> And what would it have cost the dealer had something happened to the
>> vehicle while doing the freebee work?
>>
>> In Texas we did not dare not write a repair order for a customer. The
>> customers vehicle was not covered by our insurance unless there was a
>> repair order written for the vehicle. Writing up an average of 15,000
>> vehicles per year there was always some accident that happened in the
>> shop a few times a year.
>>
>> So did you give away oil changes? We did them for $19.95.
>>
>>
>And just one more point. While you determined that the dealership
>average cost to write a repair order was $25 you not writing a repair
>order and giving the work away added to that average $25 cost.
>Employees still got paid, electric bills in the shop still got paid,
>rent was still paid, whether you charged the customer or not. All of
>those operating expenses are what contribute to the average cost of the RO.
>
>
And what proof would anyone have in court that anything had been done
without a work order?
And to be fair - not EVERY job that was less than $25 didn't get a
work order. The shop was always busy with paying jobs, and the
clerical workers were always occupied even without handling the
non-existant work orders.
Just saying not every garage/dealership is a rip-off. Many dealers DO
look after simple things like that as "good will" because in the long
run it makes them more money, not less.
On Wed, 04 Jun 2014 10:39:56 -0400, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Bill wrote:
>>
>>> Aluminum trim piece that fits around side auto window came unattached.
>>> There is relatively firm, hard black *rubber* to completely support
>>> it.
>> Was it just stuck on Bill, or were there plastic tabs that locked into
>> holes/slots in the door?
>Thank you for your reply, Mike.
>It is U-shaped, fitting on a hard rubber support around the window.
>Noticing it sticking out as I was driving down the road,
>I pulled over and all but the bottom was loose. I pulled it free,
>cracking 3 plastic connectors at their ends I think. I'll look closer
>but it was not clear by looking at the trim piece how they were attached.
>It clearly won't go back on exactly the way it was. I am fortunate that
>it has a "flush" fit with a gluing surface. I don't have much
>to lose by trying an adhesive. I once (successfully) epoxied a
>headlight cover, that had some how split into two pieces, and saved a
>bit of money I'm sure. This is a different repair
>but in the same spirit. I suspect you wouldn't be going to the
>dealership over it either. I may have mentioned before, I paid their
>parts department $18 for
>a volume control knob for the radio.
>
>A lot of rain and Lightning in Indiana today (it makes the grass grow fast).
>
>Bill
>
>
>
>> Usually they have tabs to lock them in place. If
>> that's the case, and if yours has broken tabs, you're generally best off
>> getting a replacement from the dealer - and they can be pretty proud of
>> those kinds of things. You can try 3M double sided tape. It will work even
>> in the worst of weather. Don't get the stuff that is like two sided scotch
>> tape - go to your local automotive retail store like Advance Auto or the
>> likes, and get the stuff they sell - it is much thicker and much stronger.
>> The only problem is that because it is thicker, the belt molding won't lay
>> down properly with the tape under it, if it was supposed to lock in with
>> tabs.
>>
>>> What adhesive will provide suitable method of reattachment?
>>> Recall that I live in Indiana, a cold winter state that gets hot in
>>> the summer.
>> I just use the tape when I have to reattach body side moldings and the
>> likes. That's pretty much what they use in the factory.
>>
>> If your belt moldings were taped on from the factory, just make sure to
>> completely remove all of the original stuff from both surfaces and clean
>> both surfaces well for good adhesion.
>>
>> Otherwise, if you are just trying to glue this back in place to save the
>> money, and if two sided tape is not the appropriate address, then you could
>> epoxy them in place with just small dabs of epoxy where the tabs used to be.
>>
Trim adhesive.(3m trim and weatherstrip is one that works pretty well
- but be carefull - it is yellow and sticks like snot!!! It is
flexible. Epoxy doesn't work worth crap for fastening shiny trim to
rubber, from many years of past experience
"Bill" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
Aluminum trim piece that fits around side auto window came unattached.
There is relatively firm, hard black *rubber* to completely support it.
What adhesive will provide suitable method of reattachment?
Recall that I live in Indiana, a cold winter state that gets hot in the
summer.
Thank you!
Bill
P.S. My carpal-tunnel symptoms are getting better (my "attitude" seems
to run in sinc with it).
Check with a good body repairman. I would just use contact cement like I
use putting Formica on wood. Coat each surface with the cement Then let it
dry. This makes a good surface contact. Then recoat again and let it dry
and position in place. Must get it right on the first contact as you will
not be able to remove it again. WW
On 6/7/2014 3:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> But if I free up a customer's sticky door handle and don'r write a
> work order and don't charge for it, what liability do I have? The guy
> has to be a jerk to try to claim any damages and he has no proof I did
> anything, authorized or not, and he hasn't paid me anything.
>
> Wouldn't go far in court.
>
> As for Mechanic's lien, what lien do you put on a car for something
> no-one can prove you did and you didn't charge for????? The red
> herrings are starting to look like Asian Carp in the mississipi!!!
Actually, I was responding to Leon. As a rule I don't bother to read
your misconstrued and ill-informed twaddle for the very reason above.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)