Pancake vs. Hot Dog?

-MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

>
> I keep an assortment of new water shut-off valves in my plumbing
> toolbox because of that very reason.
> Whenever I replace/repair any fixture around here, there's a 50/50
> chance of the valve working/leaking after shutting it off for what is
> likely the first time since it was installed.
>
> It's 1/4-turn ball valves for me from now on.
>
>

Going a bit off subject here...

This Old Tony made a video about the 1/4 turn PVC ball valve. Such a
cheap little thing and yet so awesome:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiGTkl4fSx4

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 10:45:00 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 1/2/18 9:52 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/1/2018 8:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that
>>> case, a dirty water hot dog works at any time of the day.
>>>
>>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank
>>> size, oil less and price - why would I choose one style over the
>>> other?
>>>
>>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to
>>> compare them on a "all else being equal" basis.
>>>
>>
>> Never mind the shape, what colors do they come in? ;~)
>>
>> All things being equal, the pancakes usually have a low spot on the
>> bottom where the drain is located. The hot dogs tend to be flat on
>> bottom and may not drain unless level and or propped up to drain.
>>
>> And the all important, which is the most comfortable for you to
>> carry?
>
>I'm sure I'm going to jinx myself, but I've never drained one.
>I've had the hotdog for for probably more than 15 years and have never
>drained it.
>I imagine it's much more important to get the water out if you're
>spraying, but what other reasons are there? (Yeah, I know I can just
>google it.)

Water rusts the bottom, weakening it. They've been known to go off
like rockets. Drain yours and take a look at the sludge coming out of
it. That's the bottom of your tank in the water. ;-)

<https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks>

On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 10:45:52 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 15:44:57 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that cas=
e, a dirty water hot dog=20
> >> works at any time of the day.=20
> >>=20
> >> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank size=
, oil less and price - why=20
> >> would I choose one style over the other?
> >>=20
> >> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to compar=
e them on a "all=20
> >> else being equal" basis.
> >
> >Not a fun answer, but a real one based on my experience. As always, YMMV=
.
> >
> >First, the compressors you are looking at in the Harbor Freight ad are t=
oys. One of my boys just bought one as he couldn't get how important the C=
FM amount was to the utility of the machine. But shooting brads tasks that=
compressor mightily, to the point of him returning it. Great for inflatin=
g a football, a tire, or blowing dust off a small project, no more.
> >
> >So, I remember before we had either kind of compressor, and compressors =
were just compressors. Different shapes and sizes, but no "hot dogs" or "p=
ancakes". Having both, I can tell you why I pick one over the other based =
on its intended use.
> >
> >My hot dog compressor is=20
> >
> >http://www.sears.com/craftsman-3-gallon-portable-air-compressor/p-009153=
62000P?plpSellerId=3DSears&prdNo=3D2&blockNo=3D2&blockType=3DG2
> >
> >and I have owned several. Great little unit, and it takes me about seve=
ral years to burn one up. Plenty of power for guns up to framing, and you =
can use it for framing and roofing ONLY if it is a repair. It is easier to=
carry than my pancake, and easier to store. If I go to the supply house o=
r somewhere else before I drop it in storage, it will fit in the floor boar=
d area of the passenger side of the truck and is almost invisible to thieve=
s. It is easier to move around on the job than my pancake as I just grab th=
e handle. I have never broken a carry handle on any of my hot dogs. This o=
ne goes with me as first choice as it is wonderfully portable.
>=20
> That does look like a nice unit, particularly for the price.
> Unfortunately, there aren't any Sears stores in the area. I think the
> closest is 25-30mi in the wrong direction.

Wrong direction?=20

Does that mean that the more time you spend driving to the store, the farth=
er away you get? ;-)

On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 11:35:48 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/2/18 9:32 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 10:15:25 AM UTC-5, [email protected]
> > wrote:
> >> On Mon, 1 Jan 2018 23:00:24 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 1/1/18 9:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 10:15:26 PM UTC-5,
> >>>> [email protected] wrote:
> >>>>> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC.
> >>>>>> In that case, a dirty water hot dog works at any time of
> >>>>>> the day.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same
> >>>>>> PSI, tank size, oil less and price - why would I choose one
> >>>>>> style over the other?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them
> >>>>>> seem to compare them on a "all else being equal" basis.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'd guess the hot dog style take up less physical space,
> >>>>> volume. While the pancake style takes up more floor space.
> >>>>> But the pancake might be more stable and never tip over.
> >>>>> Imagine the hot dog ones could tip over since they have a
> >>>>> smaller base on the floor. Couple ideas to judge which is
> >>>>> better for you.
> >>>>
> >>>> It would take quite an impact to knock over my hot dog model.
> >>>> Hasn't fallen over once in 20+ years.
> >>>>
> >>>> If they make "all else being equal" in both pancake and hot dog
> >>>> style, there must be a reason other than size. Yes, the hot dog
> >>>> style fit in "thinner" spaces, but then why make a pancake
> >>>> style? I'm sure there's a valid reason...just haven't found it
> >>>> yet.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> It probably just boils down to personal preference and usage. My
> >>> pancake fits better in my van and is easier to carry around. It
> >>> also has a much higher max PSI than the hotdog, bit there might
> >>> be a hotdog with the same rating. I suspect it would be much
> >>> heavier, however.
> >>
> >> The smallest shape for a given volume is a sphere. It's also the
> >> strongest shape. A pancake is closer to a sphere than a sausage
> >> so perhaps it can be made cheaper for the same capacity. Less,
> >> thinner, metal. I bought my pancake because it was cheap. It's a
> >> PITA to carry around, though.
> >
> > The shape of the pancake also had me wondering about carrying it. It
> > seems that the wider the unit, the more of a pain it would be to
> > carry. My hot dog allows my arm to hang almost straight down. Seems
> > like a pancake would bang my leg unless my arm is used in an angled
> > manner. (I'm saying that without ever having lifted one yet)
> >
>
> I guess we also have to be sure we're talking apples and not oranges.
> Or bushels and not baskets. :-)
>
> Most pancake tanks are 6 gallons and most hot dogs are 8. I've seen
> smaller hot dogs in 2 and 4, so it's probably not a good comparison to
> say a 4 gallon hot dog is easier to carry than a 6 gallon pancake.
>

Technically, we should be talking about Macintosh & Cortland. As I mentioned in my
OP, I'm trying to compare "all else being equal" styles.

For example, HF currently has two 3 gallon, 1/3HP, 100 PSI compressors on sale for the
same price ~$40. One is a pancake, one is a hot dog. Same brand, same specs AFAICT.
Even when they aren't on sale, they are the same price ($57). That's what I mean by *all*
things being equal.

Maybe it's just low-end units that are all the same specs. I'll have to check the name brands
to see if they carry "all equal" units in both styles. Maybe not...

On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 3:35:07 PM UTC-5, Just Wondering wrote:
> On 1/1/2018 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that case, a dirty water hot dog
> > works at any time of the day.
> >
> > But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank size, oil less and price - why
> > would I choose one style over the other?
> >
> > I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to compare them on a "all
> > else being equal" basis.
>
> Perhaps because there is never a situation when all else is equal.

Keep reading the thread. I posted about the HF sale going on where they have a pancake
version and a hot dog version that are both 3 gallon, 1/3HP and 100 PSI, same price, on sale or not.

That's what prompted my question. Maybe there is something else - other than the shape -
that makes them unequal, but I don't know what that might be.

On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 10:15:25 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Jan 2018 23:00:24 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>=20
> >On 1/1/18 9:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 10:15:26 PM UTC-5, [email protected] =
wrote:
> >>> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that c=
ase, a dirty water hot dog
> >>>> works at any time of the day.
> >>>>
> >>>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank si=
ze, oil less and price - why
> >>>> would I choose one style over the other?
> >>>>
> >>>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to comp=
are them on a "all
> >>>> else being equal" basis.
> >>>
> >>> I'd guess the hot dog style take up less physical space, volume. Whi=
le the pancake style takes up more floor space. But the pancake might be m=
ore stable and never tip over. Imagine the hot dog ones could tip over sin=
ce they have a smaller base on the floor. Couple ideas to judge which is b=
etter for you.
> >>=20
> >> It would take quite an impact to knock over my hot dog model. Hasn't f=
allen over once in
> >> 20+ years.
> >>=20
> >> If they make "all else being equal" in both pancake and hot dog style,=
there must be a reason
> >> other than size. Yes, the hot dog style fit in "thinner" spaces, but t=
hen why make a pancake
> >> style? I'm sure there's a valid reason...just haven't found it yet.
> >>=20
> >
> >It probably just boils down to personal preference and usage.
> >My pancake fits better in my van and is easier to carry around.
> >It also has a much higher max PSI than the hotdog, bit there might be a=
=20
> >hotdog with the same rating. I suspect it would be much heavier,=20
> >however.
>=20
> The smallest shape for a given volume is a sphere. It's also the
> strongest shape. A pancake is closer to a sphere than a sausage so
> perhaps it can be made cheaper for the same capacity. Less, thinner,
> metal. I bought my pancake because it was cheap. It's a PITA to
> carry around, though.

The shape of the pancake also had me wondering about carrying it. It seems =
that the=20
wider the unit, the more of a pain it would be to carry. My hot dog allows =
my arm to
hang almost straight down. Seems like a pancake would bang my leg unless my=
arm
is used in an angled manner. (I'm saying that without ever having lifted on=
e yet)

On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 2:19:50 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:
>
> >>
> >
> >Hopefully that drain spigot won't act like the water shutoff that hasn't been touched in 15
> >years. You know, the one that won't actually shut the water off completely or that leaks around
> >the stem once reopened.
> >
> >I hate when that happens.
>
> So pick a day on the calendar, say boxing day, and walk around
> working each valve in the house annually. And if/when you must replace,
> choose quarter-turn ball valves.

That works for your own house, but not when a neighbor or relative asks for your help.

Then, to replace the shutoff, you have to shut off the main. When that hasn't been exercised
for 15 years either, things can get ugly very quickly.

I have, in fact, politely declined to help when a visual inspection led me to believe that things
might not go well.

DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> was heard to mutter:

>For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that case, a dirty water hot dog
>works at any time of the day.

I don't eat pancakes much, maybe once or twice a year. I gave up the
NYC dogs decades ago. My nephew-in-law used to stop on every coner in
NYC to grab one and stuff it in his face. Asked him one day if he knew
how they were made. He quit eating them that day.

>But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank size, oil less and price - why
>would I choose one style over the other?

No clue but have a pancake. Easy for me to tote. Was gifted a month
ago with a short hotdog style but haven't had time to get it out of
the box with all the holiday stuff going on.

>I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to compare them on a "all
>else being equal" basis.

I'll be interested to know what and how many differences there are
between those styles. I always basically assumed portablilty vs power
and tank size for higher usage, like in a tire shop.

On 1/2/2018 2:22 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 3:35:07 PM UTC-5, Just Wondering wrote:
>> On 1/1/2018 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that case, a dirty water hot dog
>>> works at any time of the day.
>>>
>>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank size, oil less and price - why
>>> would I choose one style over the other?
>>>
>>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to compare them on a "all
>>> else being equal" basis.
>>
>> Perhaps because there is never a situation when all else is equal.
>
> Keep reading the thread. I posted about the HF sale going on where they have a pancake
> version and a hot dog version that are both 3 gallon, 1/3HP and 100 PSI, same price, on sale or not.
>
> That's what prompted my question. Maybe there is something else - other than the shape -
> that makes them unequal, but I don't know what that might be.

https://www.harborfreight.com/air-tools.html?CatPath=All%2BProducts%252F%252F%252F%252FAir%2BTools%2F%2F%2F%2FAir+Compressors&RequestData=CA_CategoryExpand&order=Sort+Price%2Ct
HF shows three pancakes and two cylinder tanks for $56.99.

Pancake compressors have a low center of gravity making them more stable
on roofs and other slopes. I don't know if that's a big advantage,
because you can always find a level surface and run your air hose
wherever you need it.
Cylinder tank compressors have larger capacity tanks, which means when
the tank is full, you can run the compressor longer before the pump
kicks in.

But these little HF/CN $57 compressors don't put out enough air to do
much of anything. If a pancake interests you, spend another 40 bucks
and get four times the performance from this:
https://www.amazon.com/PORTER-CABLE-C2002-Oil-Free-Pancake-Compressor/dp/B000O5RO1Y/ref=sr_1_5?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1514962486&sr=1-5&keywords=pancake+air+compressor

For comparison:
PORTER-CABLE CENTRAL PNEUMATIC
Price: $99 $57
90 PSI 2.6 SCFM 0.6 SCFM
40 PSI 3.7 SCFM 1.0 SCFM
Power 1 HP 1/3 HP
Weight 30 lb 18 lb

This Bostich is comparable to the PC:
https://www.amazon.com/Bostitch-BTFP02012-Gallon-Oil-Free-Compressor/dp/B00UHNM1R0/ref=sr_1_8?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1514963401&sr=1-8&keywords=pancake+air+compressor&refinements=p_72%3A1248909011

On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that case, =
a dirty water hot dog=20
> works at any time of the day.=20
>=20
> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank size, o=
il less and price - why=20
> would I choose one style over the other?
>=20
> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to compare t=
hem on a "all=20
> else being equal" basis.

Not a fun answer, but a real one based on my experience. As always, YMMV.

First, the compressors you are looking at in the Harbor Freight ad are toys=
. One of my boys just bought one as he couldn't get how important the CFM =
amount was to the utility of the machine. But shooting brads tasks that co=
mpressor mightily, to the point of him returning it. Great for inflating a=
football, a tire, or blowing dust off a small project, no more.

So, I remember before we had either kind of compressor, and compressors wer=
e just compressors. Different shapes and sizes, but no "hot dogs" or "panc=
akes". Having both, I can tell you why I pick one over the other based on =
its intended use.

My hot dog compressor is=20

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-3-gallon-portable-air-compressor/p-009153620=
00P?plpSellerId=3DSears&prdNo=3D2&blockNo=3D2&blockType=3DG2

and I have owned several. Great little unit, and it takes me about several=
years to burn one up. Plenty of power for guns up to framing, and you can=
use it for framing and roofing ONLY if it is a repair. It is easier to ca=
rry than my pancake, and easier to store. If I go to the supply house or s=
omewhere else before I drop it in storage, it will fit in the floor board a=
rea of the passenger side of the truck and is almost invisible to thieves. =
It is easier to move around on the job than my pancake as I just grab the h=
andle. I have never broken a carry handle on any of my hot dogs. This one =
goes with me as first choice as it is wonderfully portable.

My comparable pancake was bought specifically to work on uneven surfaces. =
The hot dog can be knocked over, pulled over when there is a kink you can't=
see in hose and (not me.. never!) yank it, and is unsteady on different su=
rfaces. The pancake goes on a roof and sits on the slope with no problems.=
So it can go on the first story roof to work on the first story siding or=
roofing, of from the first story roof you can work on the second. Having c=
ompressors stolen from the ground level while the guys break, or even while=
in use, since we hoist the compressor on the roof while working in questio=
nable areas we always take it home.

I do have a slightly bigger pancake that I bought recently at HD, and it is=
great. Only marginally bigger than their small pancake in their own Ridgi=
d brand, this thing will crank out as much air as I need to do light framin=
g(sheds, walls, build up, etc.), and light roofing like a few squares a day=
. Even does some light paint spraying! I recently put Hardie Plank and tri=
m up on a house front using it and never taxed its capacity. It was on sal=
e for $99 last year on Labor Day and it has been used a lot since. BUT... =
I hate the plastic handle/housing, it won't fit in the floor boards - only =
in the seat, and isn't easy to chain up if I carry it in the bed. It is ha=
rder to move around, and usually requires both hands as it has an odd balan=
ce to it.

If I was only using a compressor for general duties and light woodworking, =
I would buy a higher capacity hot dog like the Sears, no doubt. At $99 it'=
s a steal. I have broken several handle/housings on the pancakes I have ow=
ned, and would only buy (as I did) one if I needed it. The housings on pan=
cakes aren't repairable, and at the price I had to pay for the Bostitch hou=
sing I broke it was about 1/3 the price of the whole machine.

Hope all that helps.

Robert=20

On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 10:15:26 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote=
:
> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that case=
, a dirty water hot dog=20
> > works at any time of the day.=20
> >=20
> > But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank size,=
oil less and price - why=20
> > would I choose one style over the other?
> >=20
> > I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to compare=
them on a "all=20
> > else being equal" basis.
>=20
> I'd guess the hot dog style take up less physical space, volume. While t=
he pancake style takes up more floor space. But the pancake might be more =
stable and never tip over. Imagine the hot dog ones could tip over since t=
hey have a smaller base on the floor. Couple ideas to judge which is bette=
r for you.

It would take quite an impact to knock over my hot dog model. Hasn't fallen=
over once in=20
20+ years.

If they make "all else being equal" in both pancake and hot dog style, ther=
e must be a reason=20
other than size. Yes, the hot dog style fit in "thinner" spaces, but then w=
hy make a pancake=20
style? I'm sure there's a valid reason...just haven't found it yet.

On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 09:52:36 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:


>
>And the all important, which is the most comfortable for you to carry?

Assuming it will be carried. My pancake sits in a cabinet on wheels
that has a drawer and the top holds my drill press. It has never been
out of the cabinet and is rarely wheeled out from its spot. Works for
me, may not for others.

On 1/2/2018 10:45 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/2/18 9:52 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 1/1/2018 8:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that
>>>  case, a dirty water hot dog works at any time of the day.
>>>
>>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank
>>> size, oil less and price - why would I choose one style over the
>>> other?
>>>
>>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to
>>> compare them on a "all else being equal" basis.
>>>
>>
>> Never mind the shape, what colors do they come in?   ;~)
>>
>> All things being equal, the pancakes usually have a low spot on the
>> bottom where the drain is located.  The hot dogs tend to be flat on
>> bottom and may not drain unless level and or propped up to drain.
>>
>> And the all important, which is the most comfortable for you to
>> carry?
>
> I'm sure I'm going to jinx myself, but I've never drained one.
> I've had the hotdog for for probably more than 15 years and have never
> drained it.
> I imagine it's much more important to get the water out if you're
> spraying, but what other reasons are there?  (Yeah, I know I can just
> google it.)
>
>

Water does damage to air tools as well as rust in the tank. More water,
more opportunity for the heated compressed air to vaporize and condense
inside the hose on the way to your tool.

On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 12:27:20 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/2/18 10:55 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> > On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 10:45:00 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 1/2/18 9:52 AM, Leon wrote:
> >>> On 1/1/2018 8:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> >>>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that
> >>>> case, a dirty water hot dog works at any time of the day.
> >>>>
> >>>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank
> >>>> size, oil less and price - why would I choose one style over the
> >>>> other?
> >>>>
> >>>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to
> >>>> compare them on a "all else being equal" basis.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> Never mind the shape, what colors do they come in? ;~)
> >>>
> >>> All things being equal, the pancakes usually have a low spot on the
> >>> bottom where the drain is located. The hot dogs tend to be flat on
> >>> bottom and may not drain unless level and or propped up to drain.
> >>>
> >>> And the all important, which is the most comfortable for you to
> >>> carry?
> >>
> >> I'm sure I'm going to jinx myself, but I've never drained one.
> >> I've had the hotdog for for probably more than 15 years and have never
> >> drained it.
> >> I imagine it's much more important to get the water out if you're
> >> spraying, but what other reasons are there? (Yeah, I know I can just
> >> google it.)
> >
> > Water rusts the bottom, weakening it. They've been known to go off
> > like rockets. Drain yours and take a look at the sludge coming out of
> > it. That's the bottom of your tank in the water. ;-)
> >
> > <https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks>
> >
>
> I guess that's a good enough reason!
>

Hopefully that drain spigot won't act like the water shutoff that hasn't been touched in 15
years. You know, the one that won't actually shut the water off completely or that leaks around
the stem once reopened.

I hate when that happens.

On Tue, 02 Jan 2018 16:04:18 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 11:29:25 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>
>>> So pick a day on the calendar, say boxing day, and walk around
>>> working each valve in the house annually. And if/when you must replace,
>>> choose quarter-turn ball valves.
>>
>>That works for your own house, but not when a neighbor or relative asks for your help.
>>
>>Then, to replace the shutoff, you have to shut off the main. When that hasn't been exercised
>>for 15 years either, things can get ugly very quickly.
>>
>>I have, in fact, politely declined to help when a visual inspection led me to believe that things
>>might not go well.
>
>I used to hate visiting my mother-in-law's house for that reason. It
>was usually a weekend and I'd see things that needed fixing. The
>typical 15 minute job. But I knew if the valve did not work, I'd be
>spending all day Sunday trying to find help or have the city turn the
>water off, etc.
>
>The solution was to get her to sell the house and move up with us.

One Saturday about 30 years back I fixed something or other and the
city's gate valve came apart, closed. I obtained a ball valve,
removed the gate valve, tightened down the open ball valve, closed it,
and reconnected everything. I got about a half inch of water in the
basement. The town has been by to replace the meter several times
since and never commented.

On 1/1/2018 8:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that case, a dirty water hot dog
> works at any time of the day.
>
> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank size, oil less and price - why
> would I choose one style over the other?
>
> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to compare them on a "all
> else being equal" basis.
>

Never mind the shape, what colors do they come in? ;~)

All things being equal, the pancakes usually have a low spot on the
bottom where the drain is located. The hot dogs tend to be flat on
bottom and may not drain unless level and or propped up to drain.

And the all important, which is the most comfortable for you to carry?

On 1/2/2018 12:08 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/2/18 11:43 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 12:27:20 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 1/2/18 10:55 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 10:45:00 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/2/18 9:52 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/1/2018 8:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that
>>>>>>>    case, a dirty water hot dog works at any time of the day.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank
>>>>>>> size, oil less and price - why would I choose one style over the
>>>>>>> other?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to
>>>>>>> compare them on a "all else being equal" basis.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Never mind the shape, what colors do they come in?   ;~)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All things being equal, the pancakes usually have a low spot on the
>>>>>> bottom where the drain is located.  The hot dogs tend to be flat on
>>>>>> bottom and may not drain unless level and or propped up to drain.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And the all important, which is the most comfortable for you to
>>>>>> carry?
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm sure I'm going to jinx myself, but I've never drained one.
>>>>> I've had the hotdog for for probably more than 15 years and have never
>>>>> drained it.
>>>>> I imagine it's much more important to get the water out if you're
>>>>> spraying, but what other reasons are there?  (Yeah, I know I can just
>>>>> google it.)
>>>>
>>>> Water rusts the bottom, weakening it.  They've been known to go off
>>>> like rockets. Drain yours and take a look at the sludge coming out of
>>>> it.  That's the bottom of your tank in the water.  ;-)
>>>>
>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> I guess that's a good enough reason!
>>>
>>
>> Hopefully that drain spigot won't act like the water shutoff that
>> hasn't been touched in 15
>> years. You know, the one that won't actually shut the water off
>> completely or that leaks around
>> the stem once reopened.
>>
>> I hate when that happens.
>>
>
> I keep an assortment of new water shut-off valves in my plumbing toolbox
> because of that very reason.
> Whenever I replace/repair any fixture around here, there's a 50/50
> chance of the valve working/leaking after shutting it off for what is
> likely the first time since it was installed.
>
> It's 1/4-turn ball valves for me from now on.
>
>
The first thing I did to my 22 year old compressor was replace the drain
valve with an elbow, 12" 1/4" galvanized pipe and a SS ball valve.

On 1/2/2018 10:16 AM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/2/18 9:15 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Mon, 1 Jan 2018 23:00:24 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/1/18 9:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 10:15:26 PM UTC-5,
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that
>>>>>> case, a dirty water hot dog
>>>>>> works at any time of the day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank
>>>>>> size, oil less and price - why
>>>>>> would I choose one style over the other?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to
>>>>>> compare them on a "all
>>>>>> else being equal" basis.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd guess the hot dog style take up less physical space, volume.
>>>>> While the pancake style takes up more floor space.  But the pancake
>>>>> might be more stable and never tip over.  Imagine the hot dog ones
>>>>> could tip over since they have a smaller base on the floor.  Couple
>>>>> ideas to judge which is better for you.
>>>>
>>>> It would take quite an impact to knock over my hot dog model. Hasn't
>>>> fallen over once in
>>>> 20+ years.
>>>>
>>>> If they make "all else being equal" in both pancake and hot dog
>>>> style, there must be a reason
>>>> other than size. Yes, the hot dog style fit in "thinner" spaces, but
>>>> then why make a pancake
>>>> style? I'm sure there's a valid reason...just haven't found it yet.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It probably just boils down to personal preference and usage.
>>> My pancake fits better in my van and is easier to carry around.
>>> It also has a much higher max PSI than the hotdog, bit there might be a
>>> hotdog with the same rating.  I suspect it would be much heavier,
>>> however.
>>
>> The smallest shape for a given volume is a sphere.  It's also the
>> strongest shape.  A pancake is closer to a sphere than a sausage so
>> perhaps it can be made cheaper for the same capacity.  Less, thinner,
>> metal.  I bought my pancake because it was cheap.  It's a PITA to
>> carry around, though.
>>
>
> That's why they are lighter, too, I guess.
> There's also something about being able to use a smaller pump motor,
> from what I've read.
> Mine is easier to carry and yours is a PITA.
> I guess it probably comes down to design and construction.
>
> Maybe it's time for both of us to go with cordless shooters.   :-)
>
>


But how are you going to air up your tires, blow dust off of a work
surface, cut a piece of steel with a cut off wheel, remove lug nuts, run
that air ratchet???? ;~)

On 1/1/2018 7:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that case, a dirty water hot dog
> works at any time of the day.
>
> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank size, oil less and price - why
> would I choose one style over the other?
>
> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to compare them on a "all
> else being equal" basis.

Perhaps because there is never a situation when all else is equal.

On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 9:45:00 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/1/18 8:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that
> > case, a dirty water hot dog works at any time of the day.
> >
> > But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank
> > size, oil less and price - why would I choose one style over the
> > other?
> >
> > I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to
> > compare them on a "all else being equal" basis.
> >
>
> I may be wrong but I think the pancake ones can be made thinner, making
> them lighter.
> In any case, I like my pancake one better because it's easier to carry
> with the handle in the middle.
> My hotdog (never heard that, but I like it) compressor has 2 wheels in
> the back (too close together=wobbly) and a way too short handle in
> front. I wish they made the handle extend in some way, because it's
> very awkward to wheel around with the handle down at your knees.
>
>

Not all hot dog style units have wheels. Many, like mine, have a center mounted handle...very
easy to carry.

https://4strokes.com/download/file.php?id=1701&mode=view

On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that case, =
a dirty water hot dog=20
> works at any time of the day.=20
>=20
> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank size, o=
il less and price - why=20
> would I choose one style over the other?
>=20
> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to compare t=
hem on a "all=20
> else being equal" basis.

I'd guess the hot dog style take up less physical space, volume. While the=
pancake style takes up more floor space. But the pancake might be more st=
able and never tip over. Imagine the hot dog ones could tip over since the=
y have a smaller base on the floor. Couple ideas to judge which is better =
for you.

On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 9:49:36 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
> If they make "all else being equal" in both pancake and hot dog style, there must be a reason
> other than size. Yes, the hot dog style fit in "thinner" spaces, but then why make a pancake
> style? I'm sure there's a valid reason...just haven't found it yet.

Sic. Pancake makes one feel like a novice. Hotdog makes one feel like a pro.

Sonny

DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that
> case, a dirty water hot dog works at any time of the day.
>
> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank
> size, oil less and price - why would I choose one style over the
> other?
>
> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to
> compare them on a "all else being equal" basis.

You could have the best of both worlds if you simply put the hotdog
components inside the pancake compressor and fry the whole thing!

Puckdropper
--
http://www.puckdroppersplace.us/rec.woodworking
A mini archive of some of rec.woodworking's best and worst!

On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 15:44:57 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that case, a dirty water hot dog
>> works at any time of the day.
>>
>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank size, oil less and price - why
>> would I choose one style over the other?
>>
>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to compare them on a "all
>> else being equal" basis.
>
>Not a fun answer, but a real one based on my experience. As always, YMMV.
>
>First, the compressors you are looking at in the Harbor Freight ad are toys. One of my boys just bought one as he couldn't get how important the CFM amount was to the utility of the machine. But shooting brads tasks that compressor mightily, to the point of him returning it. Great for inflating a football, a tire, or blowing dust off a small project, no more.
>
>So, I remember before we had either kind of compressor, and compressors were just compressors. Different shapes and sizes, but no "hot dogs" or "pancakes". Having both, I can tell you why I pick one over the other based on its intended use.
>
>My hot dog compressor is
>
>http://www.sears.com/craftsman-3-gallon-portable-air-compressor/p-00915362000P?plpSellerId=Sears&prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2
>
>and I have owned several. Great little unit, and it takes me about several years to burn one up. Plenty of power for guns up to framing, and you can use it for framing and roofing ONLY if it is a repair. It is easier to carry than my pancake, and easier to store. If I go to the supply house or somewhere else before I drop it in storage, it will fit in the floor board area of the passenger side of the truck and is almost invisible to thieves. It is easier to move around on the job than my pancake as I just grab the handle. I have never broken a carry handle on any of my hot dogs. This one goes with me as first choice as it is wonderfully portable.

That does look like a nice unit, particularly for the price.
Unfortunately, there aren't any Sears stores in the area. I think the
closest is 25-30mi in the wrong direction.

On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 10:16:35 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 1/2/18 9:15 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Mon, 1 Jan 2018 23:00:24 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/1/18 9:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 10:15:26 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that case, a dirty water hot dog
>>>>>> works at any time of the day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank size, oil less and price - why
>>>>>> would I choose one style over the other?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to compare them on a "all
>>>>>> else being equal" basis.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd guess the hot dog style take up less physical space, volume. While the pancake style takes up more floor space. But the pancake might be more stable and never tip over. Imagine the hot dog ones could tip over since they have a smaller base on the floor. Couple ideas to judge which is better for you.
>>>>
>>>> It would take quite an impact to knock over my hot dog model. Hasn't fallen over once in
>>>> 20+ years.
>>>>
>>>> If they make "all else being equal" in both pancake and hot dog style, there must be a reason
>>>> other than size. Yes, the hot dog style fit in "thinner" spaces, but then why make a pancake
>>>> style? I'm sure there's a valid reason...just haven't found it yet.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It probably just boils down to personal preference and usage.
>>> My pancake fits better in my van and is easier to carry around.
>>> It also has a much higher max PSI than the hotdog, bit there might be a
>>> hotdog with the same rating. I suspect it would be much heavier,
>>> however.
>>
>> The smallest shape for a given volume is a sphere. It's also the
>> strongest shape. A pancake is closer to a sphere than a sausage so
>> perhaps it can be made cheaper for the same capacity. Less, thinner,
>> metal. I bought my pancake because it was cheap. It's a PITA to
>> carry around, though.
>>
>
>That's why they are lighter, too, I guess.
>There's also something about being able to use a smaller pump motor,
>from what I've read.
>Mine is easier to carry and yours is a PITA.
>I guess it probably comes down to design and construction.
>
>Maybe it's time for both of us to go with cordless shooters. :-)

I don't use it a lot, though I'll be doing that siding job as soon as
it's warmer. I have a larger, upright, compressor in the garage. I
have to get it plumbed into the basement and have very little time for
such things.

On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 07:32:02 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 10:15:25 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Mon, 1 Jan 2018 23:00:24 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >On 1/1/18 9:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 10:15:26 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >>> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >>>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that case, a dirty water hot dog
>> >>>> works at any time of the day.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank size, oil less and price - why
>> >>>> would I choose one style over the other?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to compare them on a "all
>> >>>> else being equal" basis.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'd guess the hot dog style take up less physical space, volume. While the pancake style takes up more floor space. But the pancake might be more stable and never tip over. Imagine the hot dog ones could tip over since they have a smaller base on the floor. Couple ideas to judge which is better for you.
>> >>
>> >> It would take quite an impact to knock over my hot dog model. Hasn't fallen over once in
>> >> 20+ years.
>> >>
>> >> If they make "all else being equal" in both pancake and hot dog style, there must be a reason
>> >> other than size. Yes, the hot dog style fit in "thinner" spaces, but then why make a pancake
>> >> style? I'm sure there's a valid reason...just haven't found it yet.
>> >>
>> >
>> >It probably just boils down to personal preference and usage.
>> >My pancake fits better in my van and is easier to carry around.
>> >It also has a much higher max PSI than the hotdog, bit there might be a
>> >hotdog with the same rating. I suspect it would be much heavier,
>> >however.
>>
>> The smallest shape for a given volume is a sphere. It's also the
>> strongest shape. A pancake is closer to a sphere than a sausage so
>> perhaps it can be made cheaper for the same capacity. Less, thinner,
>> metal. I bought my pancake because it was cheap. It's a PITA to
>> carry around, though.
>
>The shape of the pancake also had me wondering about carrying it. It seems that the
>wider the unit, the more of a pain it would be to carry. My hot dog allows my arm to
>hang almost straight down. Seems like a pancake would bang my leg unless my arm
>is used in an angled manner. (I'm saying that without ever having lifted one yet)

Worse, it has no handle. It takes two hands to carry it. :-/

On Tue, 02 Jan 2018 16:04:18 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 11:29:25 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>
>>> So pick a day on the calendar, say boxing day, and walk around
>>> working each valve in the house annually. And if/when you must replace,
>>> choose quarter-turn ball valves.
>>
>>That works for your own house, but not when a neighbor or relative asks for your help.
>>
>>Then, to replace the shutoff, you have to shut off the main. When that hasn't been exercised
>>for 15 years either, things can get ugly very quickly.
>>
>>I have, in fact, politely declined to help when a visual inspection led me to believe that things
>>might not go well.
>
>I used to hate visiting my mother-in-law's house for that reason. It
>was usually a weekend and I'd see things that needed fixing. The
>typical 15 minute job. But I knew if the valve did not work, I'd be
>spending all day Sunday trying to find help or have the city turn the
>water off, etc.

I used to do the same with my mother's and MIL's houses. I'd only
visit once or twice a year but it seemed the whole week was fixing
things that "just broke" or "Oh, that's been that way for a long
time". Once, it was a cracked toilet. I couldn't find the crack (so
thought it was the tank seal) through all the blue gunk she'd be using
for 10 years. I gave up on it and hired a plumber. He was one
unhappy Smurf!
>
>The solution was to get her to sell the house and move up with us.

That's sorta like using nuclear weapons on a wasp's nest. ;-)

DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> writes:

>>
>
>Hopefully that drain spigot won't act like the water shutoff that hasn't been touched in 15
>years. You know, the one that won't actually shut the water off completely or that leaks around
>the stem once reopened.
>
>I hate when that happens.

So pick a day on the calendar, say boxing day, and walk around
working each valve in the house annually. And if/when you must replace,
choose quarter-turn ball valves.

On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 04:11:36 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Wednesday, January 3, 2018 at 10:45:52 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 15:44:57 -0800 (PST), "[email protected]"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> >> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that case, a dirty water hot dog
>> >> works at any time of the day.
>> >>
>> >> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank size, oil less and price - why
>> >> would I choose one style over the other?
>> >>
>> >> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to compare them on a "all
>> >> else being equal" basis.
>> >
>> >Not a fun answer, but a real one based on my experience. As always, YMMV.
>> >
>> >First, the compressors you are looking at in the Harbor Freight ad are toys. One of my boys just bought one as he couldn't get how important the CFM amount was to the utility of the machine. But shooting brads tasks that compressor mightily, to the point of him returning it. Great for inflating a football, a tire, or blowing dust off a small project, no more.
>> >
>> >So, I remember before we had either kind of compressor, and compressors were just compressors. Different shapes and sizes, but no "hot dogs" or "pancakes". Having both, I can tell you why I pick one over the other based on its intended use.
>> >
>> >My hot dog compressor is
>> >
>> >http://www.sears.com/craftsman-3-gallon-portable-air-compressor/p-00915362000P?plpSellerId=Sears&prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2
>> >
>> >and I have owned several. Great little unit, and it takes me about several years to burn one up. Plenty of power for guns up to framing, and you can use it for framing and roofing ONLY if it is a repair. It is easier to carry than my pancake, and easier to store. If I go to the supply house or somewhere else before I drop it in storage, it will fit in the floor board area of the passenger side of the truck and is almost invisible to thieves. It is easier to move around on the job than my pancake as I just grab the handle. I have never broken a carry handle on any of my hot dogs. This one goes with me as first choice as it is wonderfully portable.
>>
>> That does look like a nice unit, particularly for the price.
>> Unfortunately, there aren't any Sears stores in the area. I think the
>> closest is 25-30mi in the wrong direction.
>
>Wrong direction?
>
>Does that mean that the more time you spend driving to the store, the farther away you get? ;-)

Something like that. ;-) Everything is South and East of us. The
Sears store is Northwest. There is nothing between us and where they
are (not even a grocery store) - no reason to go there (with the
exception of a new Woodcraft ;-).

On 1/1/18 8:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that
> case, a dirty water hot dog works at any time of the day.
>
> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank
> size, oil less and price - why would I choose one style over the
> other?
>
> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to
> compare them on a "all else being equal" basis.
>

I may be wrong but I think the pancake ones can be made thinner, making
them lighter.
In any case, I like my pancake one better because it's easier to carry
with the handle in the middle.
My hotdog (never heard that, but I like it) compressor has 2 wheels in
the back (too close together=wobbly) and a way too short handle in
front. I wish they made the handle extend in some way, because it's
very awkward to wheel around with the handle down at your knees.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 1/1/18 9:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 9:45:00 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/1/18 8:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that
>>> case, a dirty water hot dog works at any time of the day.
>>>
>>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank
>>> size, oil less and price - why would I choose one style over the
>>> other?
>>>
>>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to
>>> compare them on a "all else being equal" basis.
>>>
>>
>> I may be wrong but I think the pancake ones can be made thinner, making
>> them lighter.
>> In any case, I like my pancake one better because it's easier to carry
>> with the handle in the middle.
>> My hotdog (never heard that, but I like it) compressor has 2 wheels in
>> the back (too close together=wobbly) and a way too short handle in
>> front. I wish they made the handle extend in some way, because it's
>> very awkward to wheel around with the handle down at your knees.
>>
>>
>
> Not all hot dog style units have wheels. Many, like mine, have a center mounted handle...very
> easy to carry.
>
> https://4strokes.com/download/file.php?id=1701&mode=view
>

Yeah, I think Bostich thought it was a good idea. Fail.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 1/1/18 9:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 10:15:26 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that case, a dirty water hot dog
>>> works at any time of the day.
>>>
>>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank size, oil less and price - why
>>> would I choose one style over the other?
>>>
>>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to compare them on a "all
>>> else being equal" basis.
>>
>> I'd guess the hot dog style take up less physical space, volume. While the pancake style takes up more floor space. But the pancake might be more stable and never tip over. Imagine the hot dog ones could tip over since they have a smaller base on the floor. Couple ideas to judge which is better for you.
>
> It would take quite an impact to knock over my hot dog model. Hasn't fallen over once in
> 20+ years.
>
> If they make "all else being equal" in both pancake and hot dog style, there must be a reason
> other than size. Yes, the hot dog style fit in "thinner" spaces, but then why make a pancake
> style? I'm sure there's a valid reason...just haven't found it yet.
>

It probably just boils down to personal preference and usage.
My pancake fits better in my van and is easier to carry around.
It also has a much higher max PSI than the hotdog, bit there might be a
hotdog with the same rating. I suspect it would be much heavier,
however.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 1/2/18 9:15 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Jan 2018 23:00:24 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/1/18 9:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 10:15:26 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that case, a dirty water hot dog
>>>>> works at any time of the day.
>>>>>
>>>>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank size, oil less and price - why
>>>>> would I choose one style over the other?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to compare them on a "all
>>>>> else being equal" basis.
>>>>
>>>> I'd guess the hot dog style take up less physical space, volume. While the pancake style takes up more floor space. But the pancake might be more stable and never tip over. Imagine the hot dog ones could tip over since they have a smaller base on the floor. Couple ideas to judge which is better for you.
>>>
>>> It would take quite an impact to knock over my hot dog model. Hasn't fallen over once in
>>> 20+ years.
>>>
>>> If they make "all else being equal" in both pancake and hot dog style, there must be a reason
>>> other than size. Yes, the hot dog style fit in "thinner" spaces, but then why make a pancake
>>> style? I'm sure there's a valid reason...just haven't found it yet.
>>>
>>
>> It probably just boils down to personal preference and usage.
>> My pancake fits better in my van and is easier to carry around.
>> It also has a much higher max PSI than the hotdog, bit there might be a
>> hotdog with the same rating. I suspect it would be much heavier,
>> however.
>
> The smallest shape for a given volume is a sphere. It's also the
> strongest shape. A pancake is closer to a sphere than a sausage so
> perhaps it can be made cheaper for the same capacity. Less, thinner,
> metal. I bought my pancake because it was cheap. It's a PITA to
> carry around, though.
>

That's why they are lighter, too, I guess.
There's also something about being able to use a smaller pump motor,
from what I've read.
Mine is easier to carry and yours is a PITA.
I guess it probably comes down to design and construction.

Maybe it's time for both of us to go with cordless shooters. :-)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 1/2/18 9:32 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 10:15:25 AM UTC-5, [email protected]
> wrote:
>> On Mon, 1 Jan 2018 23:00:24 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 1/1/18 9:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 10:15:26 PM UTC-5,
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC.
>>>>>> In that case, a dirty water hot dog works at any time of
>>>>>> the day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same
>>>>>> PSI, tank size, oil less and price - why would I choose one
>>>>>> style over the other?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them
>>>>>> seem to compare them on a "all else being equal" basis.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd guess the hot dog style take up less physical space,
>>>>> volume. While the pancake style takes up more floor space.
>>>>> But the pancake might be more stable and never tip over.
>>>>> Imagine the hot dog ones could tip over since they have a
>>>>> smaller base on the floor. Couple ideas to judge which is
>>>>> better for you.
>>>>
>>>> It would take quite an impact to knock over my hot dog model.
>>>> Hasn't fallen over once in 20+ years.
>>>>
>>>> If they make "all else being equal" in both pancake and hot dog
>>>> style, there must be a reason other than size. Yes, the hot dog
>>>> style fit in "thinner" spaces, but then why make a pancake
>>>> style? I'm sure there's a valid reason...just haven't found it
>>>> yet.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It probably just boils down to personal preference and usage. My
>>> pancake fits better in my van and is easier to carry around. It
>>> also has a much higher max PSI than the hotdog, bit there might
>>> be a hotdog with the same rating. I suspect it would be much
>>> heavier, however.
>>
>> The smallest shape for a given volume is a sphere. It's also the
>> strongest shape. A pancake is closer to a sphere than a sausage
>> so perhaps it can be made cheaper for the same capacity. Less,
>> thinner, metal. I bought my pancake because it was cheap. It's a
>> PITA to carry around, though.
>
> The shape of the pancake also had me wondering about carrying it. It
> seems that the wider the unit, the more of a pain it would be to
> carry. My hot dog allows my arm to hang almost straight down. Seems
> like a pancake would bang my leg unless my arm is used in an angled
> manner. (I'm saying that without ever having lifted one yet)
>

I guess we also have to be sure we're talking apples and not oranges.
Or bushels and not baskets. :-)

Most pancake tanks are 6 gallons and most hot dogs are 8. I've seen
smaller hot dogs in 2 and 4, so it's probably not a good comparison to
say a 4 gallon hot dog is easier to carry than a 6 gallon pancake.



--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 1/2/18 9:52 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 1/1/2018 8:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that
>> case, a dirty water hot dog works at any time of the day.
>>
>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank
>> size, oil less and price - why would I choose one style over the
>> other?
>>
>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to
>> compare them on a "all else being equal" basis.
>>
>
> Never mind the shape, what colors do they come in? ;~)
>
> All things being equal, the pancakes usually have a low spot on the
> bottom where the drain is located. The hot dogs tend to be flat on
> bottom and may not drain unless level and or propped up to drain.
>
> And the all important, which is the most comfortable for you to
> carry?

I'm sure I'm going to jinx myself, but I've never drained one.
I've had the hotdog for for probably more than 15 years and have never
drained it.
I imagine it's much more important to get the water out if you're
spraying, but what other reasons are there? (Yeah, I know I can just
google it.)


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 1/2/18 10:55 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 10:45:00 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/2/18 9:52 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 1/1/2018 8:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that
>>>> case, a dirty water hot dog works at any time of the day.
>>>>
>>>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank
>>>> size, oil less and price - why would I choose one style over the
>>>> other?
>>>>
>>>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to
>>>> compare them on a "all else being equal" basis.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Never mind the shape, what colors do they come in? ;~)
>>>
>>> All things being equal, the pancakes usually have a low spot on the
>>> bottom where the drain is located. The hot dogs tend to be flat on
>>> bottom and may not drain unless level and or propped up to drain.
>>>
>>> And the all important, which is the most comfortable for you to
>>> carry?
>>
>> I'm sure I'm going to jinx myself, but I've never drained one.
>> I've had the hotdog for for probably more than 15 years and have never
>> drained it.
>> I imagine it's much more important to get the water out if you're
>> spraying, but what other reasons are there? (Yeah, I know I can just
>> google it.)
>
> Water rusts the bottom, weakening it. They've been known to go off
> like rockets. Drain yours and take a look at the sludge coming out of
> it. That's the bottom of your tank in the water. ;-)
>
> <https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks>
>

I guess that's a good enough reason!


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 1/2/18 11:31 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 11:35:48 AM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/2/18 9:32 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 10:15:25 AM UTC-5,
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 1 Jan 2018 23:00:24 -0600, -MIKE-
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/1/18 9:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 10:15:26 PM UTC-5,
>>>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-6,
>>>>>>> DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>>>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in
>>>>>>>> NYC. In that case, a dirty water hot dog works at any
>>>>>>>> time of the day.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But what about compressors? All else being equal -
>>>>>>>> same PSI, tank size, oil less and price - why would I
>>>>>>>> choose one style over the other?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of
>>>>>>>> them seem to compare them on a "all else being equal"
>>>>>>>> basis.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'd guess the hot dog style take up less physical space,
>>>>>>> volume. While the pancake style takes up more floor
>>>>>>> space. But the pancake might be more stable and never tip
>>>>>>> over. Imagine the hot dog ones could tip over since they
>>>>>>> have a smaller base on the floor. Couple ideas to judge
>>>>>>> which is better for you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would take quite an impact to knock over my hot dog
>>>>>> model. Hasn't fallen over once in 20+ years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If they make "all else being equal" in both pancake and hot
>>>>>> dog style, there must be a reason other than size. Yes, the
>>>>>> hot dog style fit in "thinner" spaces, but then why make a
>>>>>> pancake style? I'm sure there's a valid reason...just
>>>>>> haven't found it yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It probably just boils down to personal preference and usage.
>>>>> My pancake fits better in my van and is easier to carry
>>>>> around. It also has a much higher max PSI than the hotdog,
>>>>> bit there might be a hotdog with the same rating. I suspect
>>>>> it would be much heavier, however.
>>>>
>>>> The smallest shape for a given volume is a sphere. It's also
>>>> the strongest shape. A pancake is closer to a sphere than a
>>>> sausage so perhaps it can be made cheaper for the same
>>>> capacity. Less, thinner, metal. I bought my pancake because
>>>> it was cheap. It's a PITA to carry around, though.
>>>
>>> The shape of the pancake also had me wondering about carrying it.
>>> It seems that the wider the unit, the more of a pain it would be
>>> to carry. My hot dog allows my arm to hang almost straight down.
>>> Seems like a pancake would bang my leg unless my arm is used in
>>> an angled manner. (I'm saying that without ever having lifted one
>>> yet)
>>>
>>
>> I guess we also have to be sure we're talking apples and not
>> oranges. Or bushels and not baskets. :-)
>>
>> Most pancake tanks are 6 gallons and most hot dogs are 8. I've
>> seen smaller hot dogs in 2 and 4, so it's probably not a good
>> comparison to say a 4 gallon hot dog is easier to carry than a 6
>> gallon pancake.
>>
>
> Technically, we should be talking about Macintosh & Cortland. As I
> mentioned in my OP, I'm trying to compare "all else being equal"
> styles.
>
> For example, HF currently has two 3 gallon, 1/3HP, 100 PSI
> compressors on sale for the same price ~$40. One is a pancake, one is
> a hot dog. Same brand, same specs AFAICT. Even when they aren't on
> sale, they are the same price ($57). That's what I mean by *all*
> things being equal.
>
> Maybe it's just low-end units that are all the same specs. I'll have
> to check the name brands to see if they carry "all equal" units in
> both styles. Maybe not...
>

We had moved on from that to talk about how easy or difficult there are
to carry.
I was just pointing that you probably don't want to take any advice from
us regarding that subject until you know we're comparing the same size
compressors. As you say, all things being equal.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On 1/2/18 11:43 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, January 2, 2018 at 12:27:20 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/2/18 10:55 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 10:45:00 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 1/2/18 9:52 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 1/1/2018 8:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>>>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that
>>>>>> case, a dirty water hot dog works at any time of the day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank
>>>>>> size, oil less and price - why would I choose one style over the
>>>>>> other?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to
>>>>>> compare them on a "all else being equal" basis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Never mind the shape, what colors do they come in? ;~)
>>>>>
>>>>> All things being equal, the pancakes usually have a low spot on the
>>>>> bottom where the drain is located. The hot dogs tend to be flat on
>>>>> bottom and may not drain unless level and or propped up to drain.
>>>>>
>>>>> And the all important, which is the most comfortable for you to
>>>>> carry?
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure I'm going to jinx myself, but I've never drained one.
>>>> I've had the hotdog for for probably more than 15 years and have never
>>>> drained it.
>>>> I imagine it's much more important to get the water out if you're
>>>> spraying, but what other reasons are there? (Yeah, I know I can just
>>>> google it.)
>>>
>>> Water rusts the bottom, weakening it. They've been known to go off
>>> like rockets. Drain yours and take a look at the sludge coming out of
>>> it. That's the bottom of your tank in the water. ;-)
>>>
>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/metropolitanforensics/cause-of-explosion-of-air-compressor-tanks>
>>>
>>
>> I guess that's a good enough reason!
>>
>
> Hopefully that drain spigot won't act like the water shutoff that hasn't been touched in 15
> years. You know, the one that won't actually shut the water off completely or that leaks around
> the stem once reopened.
>
> I hate when that happens.
>

I keep an assortment of new water shut-off valves in my plumbing toolbox
because of that very reason.
Whenever I replace/repair any fixture around here, there's a 50/50
chance of the valve working/leaking after shutting it off for what is
likely the first time since it was installed.

It's 1/4-turn ball valves for me from now on.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com

On Mon, 1 Jan 2018 18:05:52 -0800 (PST)
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:

> size, oil less and price - why would I choose one style over the
> other?

one has lower center of gravity and stows a little lower

not sure about the bottom on the pancake but maybe it drains at the
lowest spot

not sure about my cylinder drain
maybe the drain really is at lowest spot due to internal contour but
then again maybe not

On Mon, 1 Jan 2018 23:00:24 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On 1/1/18 9:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 10:15:26 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Monday, January 1, 2018 at 8:05:57 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>> For breakfast, I'd stick with pancakes, unless I'm in NYC. In that case, a dirty water hot dog
>>>> works at any time of the day.
>>>>
>>>> But what about compressors? All else being equal - same PSI, tank size, oil less and price - why
>>>> would I choose one style over the other?
>>>>
>>>> I've read some comparisons on the web, but none of them seem to compare them on a "all
>>>> else being equal" basis.
>>>
>>> I'd guess the hot dog style take up less physical space, volume. While the pancake style takes up more floor space. But the pancake might be more stable and never tip over. Imagine the hot dog ones could tip over since they have a smaller base on the floor. Couple ideas to judge which is better for you.
>>
>> It would take quite an impact to knock over my hot dog model. Hasn't fallen over once in
>> 20+ years.
>>
>> If they make "all else being equal" in both pancake and hot dog style, there must be a reason
>> other than size. Yes, the hot dog style fit in "thinner" spaces, but then why make a pancake
>> style? I'm sure there's a valid reason...just haven't found it yet.
>>
>
>It probably just boils down to personal preference and usage.
>My pancake fits better in my van and is easier to carry around.
>It also has a much higher max PSI than the hotdog, bit there might be a
>hotdog with the same rating. I suspect it would be much heavier,
>however.

The smallest shape for a given volume is a sphere. It's also the
strongest shape. A pancake is closer to a sphere than a sausage so
perhaps it can be made cheaper for the same capacity. Less, thinner,
metal. I bought my pancake because it was cheap. It's a PITA to
carry around, though.

On Tue, 2 Jan 2018 11:29:25 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:



>>
>> So pick a day on the calendar, say boxing day, and walk around
>> working each valve in the house annually. And if/when you must replace,
>> choose quarter-turn ball valves.
>
>That works for your own house, but not when a neighbor or relative asks for your help.
>
>Then, to replace the shutoff, you have to shut off the main. When that hasn't been exercised
>for 15 years either, things can get ugly very quickly.
>
>I have, in fact, politely declined to help when a visual inspection led me to believe that things
>might not go well.

I used to hate visiting my mother-in-law's house for that reason. It
was usually a weekend and I'd see things that needed fixing. The
typical 15 minute job. But I knew if the valve did not work, I'd be
spending all day Sunday trying to find help or have the city turn the
water off, etc.

The solution was to get her to sell the house and move up with us.