When does The Wood become Just A Material?

charlie b wrote:
> So my question is “When does the wood become just a material and the
> intimidation factor go away?” Shop space is always at a premium and the
> wood collection keeps filling space.

I can't speak to the intimidation factor, but the "just a material"
stuff had better be 2 years after they throw dirt in my face. It's a
quality of life thing.
Dave in Fairfax
--
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net

LMAO ... therein lies the very pith of woodworking.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/18/03


"Andy Dingley" wrote in message

> Takes me all day to start making anything. So many damn boards I can't
> decide which one to use. If I only had two oak boards sitting there,
> I'd pick whichever one was big enought, then just get on and use it.
> Now I have to agonise over which leaves the most waste, whether I
> really ought to use the well-figured board on this low-rent project...

"Dan Parrell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> When does the wood become just a material and the
> > intimidation factor go away?"
>
> "When you learn how to measure twice and cut once".
>

I look at it from the other direction. If I have to measure twice before
cutting a piece of wood then there must be something wrong with my measuring
skills or my shop procedures. If your measuring skills are lacking then
measuring again doesn't really help and if your shop procedures are lax you
will have continual problems in the shop.

Bob McBreen

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 10:24:24 -0800, charlie b <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Some of it [the wood] is at least 50 years old so finding more is not likely.
>And for those reasons, I’m having a really hard time using any of it for
>a project. It’s just to intimidating - too rare, too expensive to
>replace, too beautiful to do it justice with my limited skills and
>experience.

For the benefit of the newer members of the group, allow me to
introduce Charlie b.-- all around nice guy and consumate sandbagger.

Charles, you old sandbagger, just make sumpin with it. Use a couple
of contrasting woods, use some very gentle curves somewhere in it, and
if you totally fark it up, call it "Krenov: Sunday morning 2A.M." and
sell it to a gallery.

>So my question is “When does the wood become just a material and the
>intimidation factor go away?”

Maybe what you've been experiencing as intimidation is nothing more
than a feeling of reverence for a rare and precious commodity. If you
really feel that it is, than you have an obligation, imo, to start
building with it as soon as you find a project that merits it.

If it wasn't supposed to be _you_ building with it; it wouldn't be in
your shop. Get started.

Unless, of course your bench ain't finished yet, in which case, get
finished, then get started. :)

Michael

Charlie,

Don't use that wood! The psychological impact of using one of those boards
might be overwhelming for you and put you over the edge. Call me and I'll
remove that wood from your house so that you never have to worry about this
problem again. I would not do this for just anyone, but it is Christmas
time and I am willing to help my fellow man.

Bill


"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is going to initially sound like a drive buy gloat but the context
> is key to my dilema.
>
> I've been gathering, collecting, scrounging and buying some nice wood
> over the last couple of years - a woodworker moving who's been hording
> "some really unusual boards for 35 years and I never got to this
> stuff", a cabinet shop closing "I bought 500 bf of this stuff and just
> rediscovered it during the auction inventory", a real deal at a lumber
> yard "we got a bunch of this - they use it for decking, and so it's
> really cheap and hard as hell - takes a nice finish too." So I've got
> 20 to 400 bf of spalted amber, spalted maple, black locust, mahogany
> (old growth stuff from Panama), birch, ash, medular rayed sycamore, some
> old, really oddly figured, southern yellow pine, red gum, ipe, oak,
> tiger redwood, elm and god knows what else stashed away.
>
> Here's my dilema. This stuff is so nice and it took a lot of luck to be
> fortunate enough to acquire it, let alone at the prices I got it for.
> Some of it is at least 50 years old so finding more is not likely.
> And for those reasons, I'm having a really hard time using any of it for
> a project. It's just to intimidating - too rare, too expensive to
> replace, too beautiful to do it justice with my limited skills and
> experience. I can see a piece using some of it and I know I could
> probably do a fair to good jub of building the piece - but - I put it
> off. Maybe in a year or two when I've got - more experience and skills
> - a few more solid wood furniture projects under my belt
> - that new tool
> - the workbench done
> - a space for finishing set up
> :
> :
>
> When I was making jewelry I experienced something similar. Crack this
> emerald while setting it and I'm SOL! If this diamond doesn't seat
> right I'm in deep doo-doo. If I blow this solder joint or if I slip and
> chip this stone ... But after a while precious stones were just parts
> that needed to be put in a piece - no big deal. The price and the
> beauty of the stones went away while I was working on a piece. Gold was
> just a really nice material to work with, its value was in what it did
> and how it looked in the finished piece, not in dollars.
>
> So my question is "When does the wood become just a material and the
> intimidation factor go away?" Shop space is always at a premium and the
> wood collection keeps filling space.
>
> charlie b

Maybe never, but I've come to realize, the biggest waste is not using
something precious. Did you buy the wood to use, or are you simply
its custodian now ? Naturally, you shouldn't make any cocobolo
bookshelves, or solid ebony printer stands, but try to spread the
precious woods around in your work. I recently bought 10 lbs of
ebony, and I'm probably going to use it as tennon wedges, corner
splines, handles, etc.

Incidentally, my boss HAS cocobolo bookshelves. He acquired it
for free out of a barn in Iowa after helping someone move... If that
wouldn't make a good gloat, I don't know what wood !

(notice I spelled it - wood)...

--
The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
So I installed it on Linux...

"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is going to initially sound like a drive buy gloat but the context
> is key to my dilema.
>
> I've been gathering, collecting, scrounging and buying some nice wood
> over the last couple of years - a woodworker moving who's been hording
> "some really unusual boards for 35 years and I never got to this
> stuff", a cabinet shop closing "I bought 500 bf of this stuff and just
> rediscovered it during the auction inventory", a real deal at a lumber
> yard "we got a bunch of this - they use it for decking, and so it's
> really cheap and hard as hell - takes a nice finish too." So I've got
> 20 to 400 bf of spalted amber, spalted maple, black locust, mahogany
> (old growth stuff from Panama), birch, ash, medular rayed sycamore, some
> old, really oddly figured, southern yellow pine, red gum, ipe, oak,
> tiger redwood, elm and god knows what else stashed away.
>
> Here's my dilema. This stuff is so nice and it took a lot of luck to be
> fortunate enough to acquire it, let alone at the prices I got it for.
> Some of it is at least 50 years old so finding more is not likely.
> And for those reasons, I'm having a really hard time using any of it for
> a project. It's just to intimidating - too rare, too expensive to
> replace, too beautiful to do it justice with my limited skills and
> experience. I can see a piece using some of it and I know I could
> probably do a fair to good jub of building the piece - but - I put it
> off. Maybe in a year or two when I've got - more experience and skills
> - a few more solid wood furniture projects under my belt
> - that new tool
> - the workbench done
> - a space for finishing set up
> :
> :
>
> When I was making jewelry I experienced something similar. Crack this
> emerald while setting it and I'm SOL! If this diamond doesn't seat
> right I'm in deep doo-doo. If I blow this solder joint or if I slip and
> chip this stone ... But after a while precious stones were just parts
> that needed to be put in a piece - no big deal. The price and the
> beauty of the stones went away while I was working on a piece. Gold was
> just a really nice material to work with, its value was in what it did
> and how it looked in the finished piece, not in dollars.
>
> So my question is "When does the wood become just a material and the
> intimidation factor go away?" Shop space is always at a premium and the
> wood collection keeps filling space.
>
> charlie b

"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

<snip of content in which charlie says he's got wood>

> So my question is "When does the wood become just a material and the
> intimidation factor go away?" Shop space is always at a premium and the
> wood collection keeps filling space.
>
> charlie b

When you have so much of it that you have no room for it, when your family
complains about the unsightly piles dotting the landscape, when you grab
*anything* from the pile to give to the kids to beat on or make into a
"project" because you know there's a lot more of it somewhere in your
collection, when perfectly good pieces that would actually make money on
eBay get tossed in the woodstove because they're not whole boards, when you
have actually contemplated making a large cabinet piece (or even your entire
kitchen) out of solid wood becuase you have so much of the stuff.

I am nearly getting to that stage. I have three large lumber piles air
drying in the backyard, a shop wall covered with a full lumber rack, a
semi-trailer (!) taking up space on another piece of property containing
several thousand board feet of miscellaneous species, and a shed with
another few hundred feet of nice dry clear boards for "special" projects.
Hopefully, it will all be used up during the construction of my new house,
but just in case, I bought a sawmill so I wouldn't have to run out and buy
any. I bet that I've got eight thousand board feet in two dozen different
species just sitting right now, waiting for a lifetime's projects.

Actually I take great satisfaction in hoarding certain pieces of lumber
simply because they are appealing to look at in their natural form, without
turning them into "function". I have a really funky apple burl, riddled
with ant tunnels and all spalted, that I doubt I will ever use for anything,
so I have it cut in half, sanded and oiled to bring out the color. It's art
for the shop - nature's art.

Jon Endres
- is there a 12-step program for this?

On Sun 21 Dec 2003 12:24:24p, charlie b <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> But after a while precious stones were just parts
> that needed to be put in a piece - no big deal. The price and the
> beauty of the stones went away while I was working on a piece. Gold was
> just a really nice material to work with, its value was in what it did
> and how it looked in the finished piece, not in dollars.
>
> So my question is “When does the wood become just a material and the
> intimidation factor go away?” Shop space is always at a premium and the
> wood collection keeps filling space.
>

I share your pain. :-) Or perhaps I should say, "Man, I wish I had your
problem!"

That being said, I'm guess it will work like other jobs I've had. Not
jewelry, but jobs where material was a big cost, and certain materials had
different characteristics.

Some of it just has to be expended to get to the point where you're
comfortable working with it. My waste was high at first, then it wasn't. It
didn't taper off. One hour I was tense and worried, the next I was just
picked it up and working with it. Somehow the worry about wasting product
became "normal". The worry didn't go away, but I got used to the feeling
and suddenly I wasn't tense and wasn't wasting it anymore.

Can't tell you how I got to that point but I watched too many other people
go through the same shift to think it was unique to me.

On the upside, once I got that way it didn't matter what material I was
working with, so I think if you start with the wood you're least worried
about...

Dan

I don't want to give the wrong idea about my woodworking skills. I am not a
professional, but make some pretty nice stuff. I also don't want to give
the impression that I never make mistakes... I do, but they are much fewer
after I started looking at the reasons behind the mistakes.

I found that most of my mistakes were because I was rushing through projects
and didn't have standard shop procedures. Every time I cut a dado, prepared
stock, or just about any other task, I seemed to do it a different way.
This lead to some big mistakes. I have spent a lot of time developing
consistent procedures that have help eliminate stupid mistakes. One little
thing that has been huge help is that I switched to using a drafting pencil
in the shop. I keep it in the sharpener so it is always sharp, and has a
very fine point. This allows me to accurately measure to the line. No more
"the line is pretty fat, so maybe I should cut the piece 13 13/16" instead
of 13 3/4"." I also only keep one 20' tape measure in the shop. In the
past I had different tapes that gave slightly different measurements. I
would grab what ever tape was handy and ended up using different tapes on
the same tasks. It would result in minor differences but sometimes it was
enough to effect the project.

Back to the OP. If measuring twice helps you then you should keep doing
it,, but I found that accurately measuring once has worked better for me.




"Frank McVey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi Bob,
>
> I've been in the woodworking game 40-some years, and the
> measure-twice-cut-once- rule has been drummed into me since I was a kid.
> Perhaps my retention/attention span/eyesight/measuring ability/resitance
to
> distraction etc aren't as keen as yours, but it must have saved me from
> hundreds of cockups over the years. I would earnestly advise any newbie
to
> ignore it at their peril. It takes but seconds more and if it saves you
> ballsing up at a crucial stage of a project, or saves an expensive piece
of
> rosewood, then it's paid for itself many times over. To err is human, but
> double-checking can help you avoid it.
>
> Cheers
>
> Frank
>
>
> "RWM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Dan Parrell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > When does the wood become just a material and the
> > > > intimidation factor go away?"
> > >
> > > "When you learn how to measure twice and cut once".
> > >
> >
> > I look at it from the other direction. If I have to measure twice
before
> > cutting a piece of wood then there must be something wrong with my
> measuring
> > skills or my shop procedures. If your measuring skills are lacking then
> > measuring again doesn't really help and if your shop procedures are lax
> you
> > will have continual problems in the shop.
> >
> > Bob McBreen
> >
> >
>
>

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 10:24:24 -0800, charlie b <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Here’s my dilema. This stuff is so nice and it took a lot of luck to be
>fortunate enough to acquire it, let alone at the prices I got it for.

Takes me all day to start making anything. So many damn boards I can't
decide which one to use. If I only had two oak boards sitting there,
I'd pick whichever one was big enought, then just get on and use it.
Now I have to agonise over which leaves the most waste, whether I
really ought to use the well-figured board on this low-rent project...

Last few days I've been clearing out someone else's old wood store.
Several years accumulation, most of which is now just rotted to
"firewood grade" alone. Picked up some lime (basswood), a treestump
of yew, load of narrow ash squares for interior carcasing, and some
curved oak (chair backs, without bending).

Now what do I do about half-logs of lime ? 12' long, about 4" thick
slabs and a foot wide.

--
Klein bottle for rent. Apply within.

When does the wood become just a material and the
> intimidation factor go away?"

"When you learn how to measure twice and cut once".




"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This is going to initially sound like a drive buy gloat but the context
> is key to my dilema.
>
> I've been gathering, collecting, scrounging and buying some nice wood
> over the last couple of years - a woodworker moving who's been hording
> "some really unusual boards for 35 years and I never got to this
> stuff", a cabinet shop closing "I bought 500 bf of this stuff and just
> rediscovered it during the auction inventory", a real deal at a lumber
> yard "we got a bunch of this - they use it for decking, and so it's
> really cheap and hard as hell - takes a nice finish too." So I've got
> 20 to 400 bf of spalted amber, spalted maple, black locust, mahogany
> (old growth stuff from Panama), birch, ash, medular rayed sycamore, some
> old, really oddly figured, southern yellow pine, red gum, ipe, oak,
> tiger redwood, elm and god knows what else stashed away.
>
> Here's my dilema. This stuff is so nice and it took a lot of luck to be
> fortunate enough to acquire it, let alone at the prices I got it for.
> Some of it is at least 50 years old so finding more is not likely.
> And for those reasons, I'm having a really hard time using any of it for
> a project. It's just to intimidating - too rare, too expensive to
> replace, too beautiful to do it justice with my limited skills and
> experience. I can see a piece using some of it and I know I could
> probably do a fair to good jub of building the piece - but - I put it
> off. Maybe in a year or two when I've got - more experience and skills
> - a few more solid wood furniture projects under my belt
> - that new tool
> - the workbench done
> - a space for finishing set up
> :
> :
>
> When I was making jewelry I experienced something similar. Crack this
> emerald while setting it and I'm SOL! If this diamond doesn't seat
> right I'm in deep doo-doo. If I blow this solder joint or if I slip and
> chip this stone ... But after a while precious stones were just parts
> that needed to be put in a piece - no big deal. The price and the
> beauty of the stones went away while I was working on a piece. Gold was
> just a really nice material to work with, its value was in what it did
> and how it looked in the finished piece, not in dollars.
>
> So my question is "When does the wood become just a material and the
> intimidation factor go away?" Shop space is always at a premium and the
> wood collection keeps filling space.
>
> charlie b

Flog them to a carver!

Cheers

Frank


"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 10:24:24 -0800, charlie b <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Here's my dilema. This stuff is so nice and it took a lot of luck to be
> >fortunate enough to acquire it, let alone at the prices I got it for.
>
> Takes me all day to start making anything. So many damn boards I can't
> decide which one to use. If I only had two oak boards sitting there,
> I'd pick whichever one was big enought, then just get on and use it.
> Now I have to agonise over which leaves the most waste, whether I
> really ought to use the well-figured board on this low-rent project...
>
> Last few days I've been clearing out someone else's old wood store.
> Several years accumulation, most of which is now just rotted to
> "firewood grade" alone. Picked up some lime (basswood), a treestump
> of yew, load of narrow ash squares for interior carcasing, and some
> curved oak (chair backs, without bending).
>
> Now what do I do about half-logs of lime ? 12' long, about 4" thick
> slabs and a foot wide.
>
> --
> Klein bottle for rent. Apply within.

Hi Bob,

I've been in the woodworking game 40-some years, and the
measure-twice-cut-once- rule has been drummed into me since I was a kid.
Perhaps my retention/attention span/eyesight/measuring ability/resitance to
distraction etc aren't as keen as yours, but it must have saved me from
hundreds of cockups over the years. I would earnestly advise any newbie to
ignore it at their peril. It takes but seconds more and if it saves you
ballsing up at a crucial stage of a project, or saves an expensive piece of
rosewood, then it's paid for itself many times over. To err is human, but
double-checking can help you avoid it.

Cheers

Frank


"RWM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Dan Parrell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > When does the wood become just a material and the
> > > intimidation factor go away?"
> >
> > "When you learn how to measure twice and cut once".
> >
>
> I look at it from the other direction. If I have to measure twice before
> cutting a piece of wood then there must be something wrong with my
measuring
> skills or my shop procedures. If your measuring skills are lacking then
> measuring again doesn't really help and if your shop procedures are lax
you
> will have continual problems in the shop.
>
> Bob McBreen
>
>

>Here’s my dilema. This stuff is so nice and it took a lot of luck to be
>fortunate enough to acquire it, let alone at the prices I got it for.
>Some of it is at least 50 years old so finding more is not likely.
>And for those reasons, I’m having a really hard time using any of it for
>a project. It’s just to intimidating - too rare, too expensive to
>replace,
bull just do your best the wood will encourage you. expensive does it cost 65.00
a bf? if not it is not expensive (G) if your afraid to use it sell it. otherwise
just have fun with it. or what's the point of even having it if it stresses you
out.

--
Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
See http://www.knight-toolworks.com For prices and ordering instructions.

"RWM" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I look at it from the other direction. If I have to measure twice before
>cutting a piece of wood then there must be something wrong with my measuring
>skills or my shop procedures. If your measuring skills are lacking then
>measuring again doesn't really help and if your shop procedures are lax you
>will have continual problems in the shop.

I guess I'm just human, but I occasionally catch a mistake I made the
first time I measured... I typically measure, mark a cut line, then
check to be sure I put it where I wanted to. When I set up a jig, I
go back and check it to be sure I set it exactly where I wanted it,
and it didn't move while I was clamping it down.

Maybe I'm just anal about mistakes that cost time and money (or
injury). When I'm giving a firearms class, I *am* anal about
mistakes, so maybe that just carries over to other activities.

"Measure twice" works well for me. Maybe that's because I'm not in a
hurry, or maybe I'm just not as accomplished a woodworker. Which is
probable; I've never done it for a living, I don't have a complete
shop, and I haven't ever sold anything I've made from wood (but
someday, I'd like to -- I want to make violins).

--
Howard Lee Harkness
Texas Certified Concealed Handgun Instructor
www.CHL-TX.com
[email protected]
Low-cost Domain Registration and Hosting! www.Texas-Domains.com

I had a client who collected rare and expensive woods for many years.
In all of the projects I did for him over the years, he would never
let me use any of his "special" woods. Said he was saving those for
the house he would one day build. This eventually came to pass and I
built many fine projects for his dream house using his treasurered
woods.

Two weeks before he was ready to move in (after two and a half years
in building) the Point Reyes fire burned it to the ground. Most of
his beloved fine wood would have been in his "other" house or in his
downtown S.F. office had we used the wood for those projects.

The moral? There isn't one other than we should enjoy what life sends
our way. Maybe it's luck...maybe not. Maybe using your fine woods will
inspire you to better things...Who can say?

DD



"It's easy when you know how..."
Johnny Shines