Using old maple flooring for work bench top

"Tim Douglass" writes:

> I bet you mean uniform board to board!

Yep.

> Ignore my other response in
> that case. I meant that it is very hard to get any individual board to
> a consistent thickness using either a jointer or router set-up.

Agreed, it is not only hard, it's impossible IMHO.

> My
> experience with used flooring is that there are often variations in
> thickness of as much as 1/8" in a single board.

Agreed, which is why I suggested the belt sander and epoxy approach.

Clean up each side of the board /w/ a 24 grit belt sander, then stack wedge
shaped pieces as req'd to approach keeping things even (kinda like selecting
grain pattern for a top).

Laminate the whole shebang together with microballoon filled epoxy.

You definitely are best off only laminating 2, maybe 3 pieces together at a
time.

Just snug the clamps, let the epoxy do the work.

My approach will definitely take some time, but all the brick outhouses
within 500 miles will fall down before that top comes apart.<G>

When cured, head to the top shop and get it sanded level.

Lew

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 13:17:23 -0500, Peter De Smidt
<pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net*> wrote:

>Tim Douglass wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> I *really* want a planer, so if it was me, I'd use the project to
>> justify a new tool. YMMV
>
>Yes, that's a very good point. The problem is that I don't have a good
>dust collection system yet, and I really need one. I'd especially need
>one if I get a planer. I'm not sure that the budget is available for both.

Get the new DeWalt with the chip ejector, then all you have to do is
sweep up bushels of chips... :-0

>And in another post Tim wrote:
>> Like I say, run a couple of boards and see. If they don't come out
>> good you are no worse off than when you started.
>
>That's a great suggestion. I just ran a board through the router table
>without feather boards...just to see how it would work. (Gotta make some
>feather boards.) It worked quite well, and it took the varnish off with
>no problems. I'll make some feather boards, try a few more boards, and
>get out the calipers.

Go for it!

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 00:20:12 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Laminate the whole shebang together with microballoon filled epoxy.

I'm pretty much ok up to this point. I would, if this were my project,
want to keep the glue lines as minimal as possible, both for the sake
of appearance and because most glues are real death on cutting edges.
One of the reasons for a wood bench instead of steel is that it is
much friendlier to you chisels or what-have-you when you accidentally
do a bit of shaping on your bench top. I'm not sure how much of a
problem it really would be, but it is something to think about.

I still see this as the perfect opportunity to justify a planer,
though!

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

In article <[email protected]>, Dave Hinz
<[email protected]> wrote:

> How does that sound?

Sounds something like my bench... maple T&G flooring glued to a
solid-core door.

Construction pics here: <http://www.balderstone.ca/workbench/>

I edged it with hickory and have installed a pair of Veritas bench
vises (no pics of that stage though).

djb

In article <e6m4d.106466$yh.104665@fed1read05>, AArDvarK
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Do you think I should TS it into 2" peices or leave it all they way
> it is, cut off the routed bevels on the edges then using it all as solid top?

Yes.

;-)

Unless it's very flat I'd probably consider cutting it into strips,
depending on whether the loss of wood from the saw kerfs would leave me
with too little wood.

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:39:51 -0500, Peter De Smidt <pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net*> wrote:
> Hi folks. I have a fair amount of 100 year old 2 inch maple tongue and
> groove flooring, and I'd like to glue this large face to large face to
> make a work bench top. I realize that I'll have to machine the bottom
> side flat.

Why? The grooves are there when you use it for flooring, unless you
are going to have _very_ localized pressure it's not a problem to have
those small, consistant voids.

As someone who has (attempted to...) reused old 2" maple flooring,
I'd like to warn you that it's going to be a pain in the (butt) to work
with. Splitty, gritty, dirty, and ill-fitting are all possibilities.
But, if I was going to do it, I'd lay it just like hardwood flooring,
treating the plywood top of the workbench exactly as if it was a subfloor.
Maybe the tar paper and everything. Should make a nice looking workbench;
once it's all down, _then_ sand & refinish it.

How does that sound?
Dave Hinz

> On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:39:51 -0500, Peter De Smidt <pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net*> wrote:
>
>>Hi folks. I have a fair amount of 100 year old 2 inch maple tongue and
>>groove flooring, and I'd like to glue this large face to large face to
>>make a work bench top. I realize that I'll have to machine the bottom
>>side flat.
>
> Dave Hinz wrote:
> Why? The grooves are there when you use it for flooring, unless you
> are going to have _very_ localized pressure it's not a problem to have
> those small, consistant voids.
>
> As someone who has (attempted to...) reused old 2" maple flooring,
> I'd like to warn you that it's going to be a pain in the (butt) to work
> with. Splitty, gritty, dirty, and ill-fitting are all possibilities.
> But, if I was going to do it, I'd lay it just like hardwood flooring,
> treating the plywood top of the workbench exactly as if it was a subfloor.
> Maybe the tar paper and everything. Should make a nice looking workbench;
> once it's all down, _then_ sand & refinish it.
>
> How does that sound?
> Dave Hinz

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your suggestions, but I don't want to lay it like flooring.
I'd rather glue the wide faces together (the ones that were the top and
bottom when it was used as flooring.) Once the tonge grooves are
removed, I should have a top roughly 2" thick.

So my questions remain:
1. Do I have to get rid of the varnish? Will it cause a joint with less
strenth? Will the varnish cause a problem when I plane the top flat.
(Remember, it's flooring, and so it has a layer of varnish on one side.)

2. Since I want to glue the top of one board to the bottom of another,
I should machine the bottom of the boards flat to get maximum joint
strength. Should I use a 10" tablesaw or a router table with a long
straight bit? (I don't have a jointer or planer.)

-Peter

Tim Douglass wrote:
>
> I can't imagine a reasonable way to mill the bottoms flat short of a
> planer. Trying to do it with the router would at a minimum require a
> router table and a good, square fence and still might not produce a
> truly flat and parallel piece.
>

Well, I have a Milwaukee router in a large table with the Incra LS
positioning system fence. My 2.5" straight bit has a 1/2" shaft.
Assuming that I get the fence set up correctly, and I use featherboards,
why should this not lead to good results?

-Peter

[email protected] wrote:

> do I gather that you are wanting to make the bench top with your
> former floorboards all on edge and glued together the width of the
> top, rather than all flat and glued 2 thick?

Yes.

-Peter

[email protected] wrote:

it wouldn't be easy, and the blades alone would probably cost
> you more than a commercially made bench top:
> http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=G9912
> $79.95.
>
>
>
That's for a top only 36"x24", whereas I was thinking about 36"x72".
With shipping, that'd be $270.

I already have the wood. It was removed from my entry way, and I'd like
to find a use for it. It'd been sanded a number of times, and so it
wouldn't make much sense to re-install it elsewhere. In any case all of
our floors are already covered with hard maple, except where I've
replaced the wood with tile.

-Peter

[email protected] wrote:

> you must put some value on your time. I think you're badly
> underestimating the effort required to use this material in this way.

Since I haven't made any comments about how much works it's going to be,
I find it strange that you to claim that I'm underestimating the effort
required.

Yes, it would take a lot of work, but I'm not in this for efficiency or
cost savings. I have a material, approximately 120 square feet, that's
been in my house for 100 years. I'd like to use it for something useful,
and I need a workbench. It doesn't matter to me if it takes a couple of
months to make.

A few years ago, I made a laminated maple top for above our dishwasher.
I simply bought 2" wide maple boards from Menards, glued them up in
sections wide face to wide face, and surfaced it all with a belt sander.
No, this was not a "fine woodworking" technique, and I didn't use a
planer or a jointer, but it looks great. While it was quite a bit of
work, it was fun. Yes, I probably could have bought a ready made one for
less money (and certainly less effort). So what?

I appreciate all the suggestions that posters have made, and especially
all the explanations as to the advantages of certain techniques.

-Peter De Smidt

Tim Douglass wrote:
<snip>
>
> I *really* want a planer, so if it was me, I'd use the project to
> justify a new tool. YMMV

Yes, that's a very good point. The problem is that I don't have a good
dust collection system yet, and I really need one. I'd especially need
one if I get a planer. I'm not sure that the budget is available for both.

And in another post Tim wrote:
> Like I say, run a couple of boards and see. If they don't come out
> good you are no worse off than when you started.

That's a great suggestion. I just ran a board through the router table
without feather boards...just to see how it would work. (Gotta make some
feather boards.) It worked quite well, and it took the varnish off with
no problems. I'll make some feather boards, try a few more boards, and
get out the calipers.

-Peter De Smidt

"Ed Bailen writes:

<Snip a lot of good skinny>

> 9. Be prepared to spend a lot of time with a belt sander to flatten
> your new bench top. If you are thinking of planing it flat, go back
> and look at item 1. It ain't gonn'a work.

IMHO, trying to level out a top with a belt sander is not only frustrating,
but a total waste of time cuz you ain't never going to get it flat.

Go to a commercial top shop and have it run thru that nice 48" drum sander
that has at least 3 belts, each driven by about a 25 HP motor.

For less than $50, if you are patient and willing to wait, you get a flat
top and no knots in your gut which makes the brewskis taste much better.


Lew

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:17:59 -0500, Peter De Smidt
<pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net*> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>
> it wouldn't be easy, and the blades alone would probably cost
>> you more than a commercially made bench top:
>> http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=G9912
>> $79.95.
>>
>>
>>
>That's for a top only 36"x24", whereas I was thinking about 36"x72".
>With shipping, that'd be $270.
>
>I already have the wood. It was removed from my entry way, and I'd like
>to find a use for it. It'd been sanded a number of times, and so it
>wouldn't make much sense to re-install it elsewhere. In any case all of
>our floors are already covered with hard maple, except where I've
>replaced the wood with tile.
>
>-Peter



well, you now have most of the information you asked for. what you
want to do is possible. whether or not it's a fool's errand is a
matter of opinion... I do think I'd be most likely to use that
material as tongue and groove over a suitably thick substrate, maybe 2
layers of 3\4" plywood.

whatever method you use to remove the finish, expect it to be a chore.
getting the bulk of it off with a scraper first will save you some
money in either cutters (if you plane it) or sandpaper (if you run it
through a thickness planer). you will need to surface both sides
before glue up.

consider also the amount of wood to be removed and what yield you'll
get. if the flooring was 3/4", the relief grooves on the bottom are
what, 1/8"? and it's been sanded a number of times, say another 1/8"
gone. this leaves about 1/2", and you'll use probably another 1/16
getting it all surfaced and neat. so figure a finished thickness of
7/16". so you'll need 83 layers to get your 36" width. assuming the
flooring is 2-1/2" wide now, you will need 103 square feet of it to
get your table top. how big is your entry?


you must put some value on your time. I think you're badly
underestimating the effort required to use this material in this way.

> Hi folks. I have a fair amount of 100 year old 2 inch maple tongue and
> groove flooring, and I'd like to glue this large face to large face to
> make a work bench top. I realize that I'll have to machine the bottom
> side flat. Which would be better to use, a 10" table saw or a router
> table? I do have a 2.5" carbide straight bit for the latter. The other
> face is covered with a very thin layer of poly varnish. Do I have to
> remove this, or could I just sand it lightly and glue it? I'm a newbie
> and so any constructive suggestions are welcome.


After all I've read...

I think it would be a simple matter of cutting the tongues off the boards
with a table saw, after you have cut the boards to the length you want
the bench to be, by whatever means. Leave the grooves there, no reason
to alleviate the strength of the wood, they go on the bottom and the de-
tongued sides are the top, boards gang-glued side-by-side on the 2" faces
after stripping with stryp-eze. You could even spend a shot more and fill
those grooves with epoxy for more strength (just a tiny idea thrown in).

Alex

This is exactly the top on my bench. I got it from a friend. His
father made it a long time ago. The grooves were trimmed to 1/8 and
the tounges were trimmed off. The really nice thing is the perfect
3/4X3/4 inch square holes every six inchs in 2 rows to match tail vice
dogs. I mounted it on 2 2x2 inch runners running accross the bench and
extending 6 inches out the front side. This allows easy access to
clamp all sorts of things to it. Also the front side dog holes are
clear so you can stick clamp post up thru the bottom. Its about
22X60X2 inchs total, weighs a ton. works great. Mine is oak not maple
by the way.
Jack

Peter De Smidt <pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net*> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hi folks. I have a fair amount of 100 year old 2 inch maple tongue and
> groove flooring, and I'd like to glue this large face to large face to
> make a work bench top. I realize that I'll have to machine the bottom
> side flat. Which would be better to use, a 10" table saw or a router
> table? I do have a 2.5" carbide straight bit for the latter. The other
> face is covered with a very thin layer of poly varnish. Do I have to
> remove this, or could I just sand it lightly and glue it? I'm a newbie
> and so any constructive suggestions are welcome.
>
> -Peter De Smidt

"Peter De Smidt" <pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net*> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Tim Douglass wrote:
>>
>> I can't imagine a reasonable way to mill the bottoms flat short of a
>> planer. Trying to do it with the router would at a minimum require a
>> router table and a good, square fence and still might not produce a
>> truly flat and parallel piece.
>>
>
> Well, I have a Milwaukee router in a large table with the Incra LS
> positioning system fence. My 2.5" straight bit has a 1/2" shaft. Assuming
> that I get the fence set up correctly, and I use featherboards, why should
> this not lead to good results?
>
> -Peter

You could make that work if you had another dozen or two of those bits:0

"Tim Douglass" writes:

<snip>
> If the flooring has been sanded I can almost guarantee that you will
> *have* to run it through a planer. It is almost certain to have
> thickness variations that will be virtually impossible to remove any
> other way.
<snip>

If you are going to laminate this material into a top, why is uniform
thickness important?

Lew

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in news:TOE4d.1290
[email protected]:

>
> "Tim Douglass" writes:
>
> <snip>
>> If the flooring has been sanded I can almost guarantee that you will
>> *have* to run it through a planer. It is almost certain to have
>> thickness variations that will be virtually impossible to remove any
>> other way.
> <snip>
>
> If you are going to laminate this material into a top, why is uniform
> thickness important?
>
> Lew
>
>
>
>

Uniform thickness from one board to the next is not. Uniform thickness
along the lenght of the board is else you wind up with wedge shaped, or
wavy boards which will not laminate especially well.

"Secret Squirrel" writes:

> Uniform thickness from one board to the next is not. Uniform thickness
> along the lenght of the board is else you wind up with wedge shaped, or
> wavy boards which will not laminate especially well.

Ahh so, a matter of definition.

Never gave the wedge idea a thought.

If you use epoxy thickened with microballoons, you could care less whether
you are using wedge shaped material.

It is very forgiving stuff that epoxy.

Lew

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 21:17:59 -0500, Peter De Smidt
<pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net*> wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>
> it wouldn't be easy, and the blades alone would probably cost
>> you more than a commercially made bench top:
>> http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=G9912
>> $79.95.
>>
>>
>>
>That's for a top only 36"x24", whereas I was thinking about 36"x72".
>With shipping, that'd be $270.
>
>I already have the wood. It was removed from my entry way, and I'd like
>to find a use for it. It'd been sanded a number of times, and so it
>wouldn't make much sense to re-install it elsewhere. In any case all of
>our floors are already covered with hard maple, except where I've
>replaced the wood with tile.

If the flooring has been sanded I can almost guarantee that you will
*have* to run it through a planer. It is almost certain to have
thickness variations that will be virtually impossible to remove any
other way.

I have cogitated doing this same project several times in the past
when I have had the chance to get a lot of used maple flooring cheap
or free. Every time I've decided it was simply way too much work for
me to find it worthwhile. If you really don't mind the effort (and it
sounds like you don't) I would buy a portable planer and about 4 sets
of blades and have at it. Total cost, not counting the planer (which
you should be able to re-use or re-sell) would be about $200. I
realize that this is partly a sentimental effort, so the cost isn't
the driving factor, but it should be borne in mind. Oh, don't forget
the cost of glue. Personally, I'd do it all with Gorilla Glue, but
Tightbond II is probably good enough. Either way it will take quite a
bit.

I *really* want a planer, so if it was me, I'd use the project to
justify a new tool. YMMV

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 18:42:59 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Tim Douglass" writes:
>
><snip>
>> If the flooring has been sanded I can almost guarantee that you will
>> *have* to run it through a planer. It is almost certain to have
>> thickness variations that will be virtually impossible to remove any
>> other way.
><snip>
>
>If you are going to laminate this material into a top, why is uniform
>thickness important?

Gaps, to be brief. Often when running things past a not-so-good router
fence you get waves, at least that is my experience. It means that you
can't bring the boards tightly together to glue them up. Even if you
manage to pull them together with clamps you will have stresses in the
top that will likely lead to cracks down the road.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 19:40:31 -0500, Peter De Smidt
<pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net*> wrote:

>Tim Douglass wrote:
>>
>> I can't imagine a reasonable way to mill the bottoms flat short of a
>> planer. Trying to do it with the router would at a minimum require a
>> router table and a good, square fence and still might not produce a
>> truly flat and parallel piece.
>>
>
>Well, I have a Milwaukee router in a large table with the Incra LS
>positioning system fence. My 2.5" straight bit has a 1/2" shaft.
>Assuming that I get the fence set up correctly, and I use featherboards,
>why should this not lead to good results?

Probably work OK. The thing that the planer does is index off the back
of the board, so it comes out at a consistent thickness. You *may* get
that result with the router table assuming the boards start
essentially the same thickness, but some variation wouldn't surprise
me. Run a couple of pieces through (both sides, for flattening and to
remove the varnish) and then take your dial calipers and see if they
are consistent. Remember that you need to set the infeed side of your
fence back the depth of your cut and the outfeed side exactly even
with the bit. What you will have created is a small diameter jointer,
which, if used carefully, could give you good enough results.

Like I say, run a couple of boards and see. If they don't come out
good you are no worse off than when you started.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

"Tim Douglass" writes:

> I still see this as the perfect opportunity to justify a planer,
> though!

That is an absolute, but IMHO, this is strictly a belt sander job unless of
course you use the planer to remove the ridges on the underside of the
flooring after sanding off the poly on the opposite side.

Why take a chance and screw up some nice new planer blades?

BTW, if some filled epoxy that presents a filled gap of maybe 1/32" on a
bench top to a chisel causes a
problem, so be it.

BTW, isn't that why Scary Sharp exists<G>.

Lew

Lew,

You gotta get a new planer. I can't say for sure about the 735, but my 733
is a 10-minute job at the most. The first time I did it, "it was like wow
man" :-)

I know where you are coming from though. My previous delta snipemaster-12
was a trauma to change, not unlike my jointer.

-steve

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Tim Douglass" writes:
>
> > It costs about $45 for a set of blades for the DeWalt 735.
>
> It's not the cost of the blades but the change out that is a PITA.
>
> > .. I discovered that sometimes it is more
> > efficient to just use something up doing a job.
>
> Agreed.
>
> > It was an inexpensive blade and trying to preserve it
> > would have taken so much time that it wasn't worth it.
>
> Been there, done that.
>
> > The valuations are different on a home-shop project, but I'd still
> > rather burn up a set of planer blades than try to remove all that poly
> > with a belt sander - and you would definitely need to run them through
> > the planer after that to take out the wows, unless you are a lot
> > better with a belt sander than I am.
>
> Building a fiberglass boat develops some different skills that just
working
> with wood.
>
> A belt sander /w/ 24 grit belts, a 9" right angle sander /w/ 16 grit disks
> and my favorite, a 4-1/2" right angle sander /w/ 24 grit disks are the
tools
> of the trade.
>
> After while, you develop a touch using these tools.
>
> Different strokes for different folks as the saying goes.
>
> Lew
>
>
>

On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 18:42:59 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Tim Douglass" writes:
>
><snip>
>> If the flooring has been sanded I can almost guarantee that you will
>> *have* to run it through a planer. It is almost certain to have
>> thickness variations that will be virtually impossible to remove any
>> other way.
><snip>
>
>If you are going to laminate this material into a top, why is uniform
>thickness important?

I bet you mean uniform board to board! Ignore my other response in
that case. I meant that it is very hard to get any individual board to
a consistent thickness using either a jointer or router set-up. My
experience with used flooring is that there are often variations in
thickness of as much as 1/8" in a single board.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

> Sounds something like my bench... maple T&G flooring glued to a
> solid-core door.
> Construction pics here: <http://www.balderstone.ca/workbench/>
> I edged it with hickory and have installed a pair of Veritas bench
> vises (no pics of that stage though).


Very nifty! Can I get some advice?

I have my granny's old maple breakfast table with lots of wood in it.
I am thinking of cutting it up and doing the same thing, it's got one
leaf. Do you think I should TS it into 2" peices or leave it all they way
it is, cut off the routed bevels on the edges then using it all as solid top?

Alex

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:39:51 -0500, Peter De Smidt
<pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net*> wrote:

>Hi folks. I have a fair amount of 100 year old 2 inch maple tongue and
>groove flooring, and I'd like to glue this large face to large face to
>make a work bench top. I realize that I'll have to machine the bottom
>side flat. Which would be better to use, a 10" table saw or a router
>table? I do have a 2.5" carbide straight bit for the latter. The other
>face is covered with a very thin layer of poly varnish. Do I have to
>remove this, or could I just sand it lightly and glue it? I'm a newbie
>and so any constructive suggestions are welcome.
>
>-Peter De Smidt

Several years ago, my nephew bought half of a gym floor to use for
flooring in his new house. There was a LOT of maple flooring left
over when his house was done. In exchange for a lot of weekends spent
cutting off staples, I have unlimited access to the remaining maple.
Over the years, I have made a number of desk, table, and bench tops;
both edge glued and face glued. Here's what I have learned from
experience.

1. If it was decent wood, it would not have been used for flooring.
The grain is going to go every which way in any given piece.

2. Buy or borrow a metal detector. (Little Wizard works well.)
Check every piece of wood twice to make sure you've gotten all of the
old nails or staples out. It only takes one to destroy your tool
blade.

3. Buy a good glue line rip blade for your saw. I've been very happy
with the Freud.

4. The existing finish has got to go. Stripping will work if you are
only going to put an oil finish on your bench top. If you are
thinking of a varnish, you will need to remove enough wood under the
old finish to make sure you are working with fresh wood. If you are
edge gluing, this also goes for the edges as floor waxes will have run
down between the planks when you waxed the floors.

5. I have a planer. On the tops I have done so far, I have planed
off the grooves. If I were doing a workbench top, I would leave them
on and, as prevoiusly suggested, make a top with several layers of
edge-glued strips. That will be the most efficient use of your wood,
and the grooves will have no measurable effect on the strength of your
glue joints.

6. If you do decide that you must face-glue the strips, go ahead and
take the grooves off any way you can. When you are ripping the
strips, start by ripping just the tongues off, and use that for the
top surface of the bench. If you really really want to take the
grooves of the other edge, set your rip fence to leave just a little
hint of the original grooves. Depending on how you pulled up the
flooring, the grooved edges of the plank are not going to look to
good, and they are going to be the bottom of your benchtop.

7. You will want to make sure that the ends of abutting pieces are a
perfect mate. I made up a fence that is screwed to the panel-cutting
sled on my table saw. There are two toggle clamps on each side of the
saw kerf. I set two abutting strips under the clamps so they meet in
the center of the kerf, clamp them down, and run them through. Then I
mark them so I now that those two pieces go together.

8. Your biggest problem is going to be in the glue-up stage. When
you start tightening up the clamps, the wood is going to start moving
in all different directions. You might consider biscuits to keep the
pieces from moving too much. You will need to be clamping the pieces
face-to-face, and from end-to-end if you are using more than one piece
in a layer. You also want to clamp each new strip down against your
construction surface. I recommend starting with a 2 x 2 angle iron
the length of your new top clamped to a flat, plastic-covered,
surface. use this for a reference clamping surface as you build up
each layer of strips. Let each layer dry and scrape off the dried
glue before going on to the next layer. (Unless you are nailing each
layer together in addition to the glue.) In my case, I made "planks"
that were 2" thick and 10" to 11" wide so I could run them through the
planer to clean them up. The plastic-covered surface is your
reference surface. Each strip should be glued in place with the
tongue edge down.

9. Be prepared to spend a lot of time with a belt sander to flatten
your new bench top. If you are thinking of planing it flat, go back
and look at item 1. It ain't gonn'a work.

When you are done, clean up the ends with a rough pass on a circular
saw, and then use your long router bit to skim off 1/32" using a
straight edge.

Good luck, it will take a while.
Ed Bailen

On Fri, 24 Sep 2004 05:18:00 GMT, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>"Tim Douglass" writes:
>
>> I still see this as the perfect opportunity to justify a planer,
>> though!
>
>That is an absolute, but IMHO, this is strictly a belt sander job unless of
>course you use the planer to remove the ridges on the underside of the
>flooring after sanding off the poly on the opposite side.
>
>Why take a chance and screw up some nice new planer blades?

It costs about $45 for a set of blades for the DeWalt 735. I believe
that they are double edged. I haven't tried it, but I suspect that you
could easily plane off all the varnish with one set of blades. We're
only talking 110 square feet, IIRC. I'm a bit inclined to treat things
like planer blades as a disposable commodity on a job like this. Back
when I did a lot of remodeling I discovered that sometimes it is more
efficient to just use something up doing a job. We treated skilsaws
and blades that way, since they were frequently the fast and easy way
to cut through things like multiple layers of roofing. I actually once
reduced a carbide tipped framing blade to a smooth disk cutting in
three skylights. It was an inexpensive blade and trying to preserve it
would have taken so much time that it wasn't worth it.

The valuations are different on a home-shop project, but I'd still
rather burn up a set of planer blades than try to remove all that poly
with a belt sander - and you would definitely need to run them through
the planer after that to take out the wows, unless you are a lot
better with a belt sander than I am.


Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

> Well, I have a Milwaukee router in a large table with the Incra LS
> positioning system fence. My 2.5" straight bit has a 1/2" shaft.
> Assuming that I get the fence set up correctly, and I use featherboards,
> why should this not lead to good results?


Just send the wood to me, I'll pay shipping, I'll put the wood through an
oliver surfacer, then the Oliver jointer for the other side, I have both
machines at my disposal. Then I can cut them to exacting length for you
on the Oliver table saw... ay? [wink]

Alex ;-]

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:31:07 -0500, Peter De Smidt
<pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net*> wrote:

>So my questions remain:
>1. Do I have to get rid of the varnish? Will it cause a joint with less
>strenth? Will the varnish cause a problem when I plane the top flat.
>(Remember, it's flooring, and so it has a layer of varnish on one side.)

Yes. No glue will stick adequately to poly varnish. If it is non-poly
it probably has wax on it. In any even a trip through a planer that
you don't love too much or a drum sander should take care of it.

>2. Since I want to glue the top of one board to the bottom of another,
>I should machine the bottom of the boards flat to get maximum joint
>strength. Should I use a 10" tablesaw or a router table with a long
>straight bit? (I don't have a jointer or planer.)

I can't imagine a reasonable way to mill the bottoms flat short of a
planer. Trying to do it with the router would at a minimum require a
router table and a good, square fence and still might not produce a
truly flat and parallel piece.

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Peter De Smidt <pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net*> wrote in news:415249ae$1_2
@newspeer2.tds.net:

> Yes, it would take a lot of work, but I'm not in this for efficiency or
> cost savings. I have a material, approximately 120 square feet, that's
> been in my house for 100 years. I'd like to use it for something useful,
> and I need a workbench. It doesn't matter to me if it takes a couple of
> months to make.
>
>

How about using it for something where the 'flatness' aspect is not as
critical and the whole family could enjoy what you've built?

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:31:07 -0500, Peter De Smidt
<pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net*> wrote:
>
>Hi Dave,
>
>Thanks for your suggestions, but I don't want to lay it like flooring.
>I'd rather glue the wide faces together (the ones that were the top and
>bottom when it was used as flooring.) Once the tonge grooves are
>removed, I should have a top roughly 2" thick.
>
>So my questions remain:
>1. Do I have to get rid of the varnish? Will it cause a joint with less
>strenth? Will the varnish cause a problem when I plane the top flat.
>(Remember, it's flooring, and so it has a layer of varnish on one side.)
>
>2. Since I want to glue the top of one board to the bottom of another,
>I should machine the bottom of the boards flat to get maximum joint
>strength. Should I use a 10" tablesaw or a router table with a long
>straight bit? (I don't have a jointer or planer.)
>
>-Peter



Peter.
you got some good advice. really. but you won't heed the voice of
wisdom, so here goes.

the finish will interfere with glue.

the used floorboards will destroy your plane blades.

neither the tablesaw or the router table are good methods for
flattening the undersides. a reasonable method would involve a bandsaw
and a thickness planer, neither of which you probably have.



do I gather that you are wanting to make the bench top with your
former floorboards all on edge and glued together the width of the
top, rather than all flat and glued 2 thick? if you had a thickness
planer, lots of time and plenty of spare blades it would probably
work. it wouldn't be easy, and the blades alone would probably cost
you more than a commercially made bench top:
http://www.grizzly.com/products/item.cfm?itemnumber=G9912
$79.95.

In article <[email protected]>,
Peter De Smidt <pdesmidt*no*spam*@tds.*net*> wrote:
>Hi folks. I have a fair amount of 100 year old 2 inch maple tongue and
>groove flooring, and I'd like to glue this large face to large face to
>make a work bench top. I realize that I'll have to machine the bottom
>side flat. Which would be better to use, a 10" table saw or a router
>table? I do have a 2.5" carbide straight bit for the latter. The other
>face is covered with a very thin layer of poly varnish. Do I have to
>remove this, or could I just sand it lightly and glue it? I'm a newbie
>and so any constructive suggestions are welcome.
>
>-Peter De Smidt

I would say definitely use the table saw, pushing that much stock over
a router table is no fun (my opinion anyway) I'd also use the tablesaw
to take off the varnish layer, set your fence so the blade just kisses
the surface and exposes bare wood. If you have a good quality 24 tooth
rip blade it would be the one to use.


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]

"Tim Douglass" writes:

> It costs about $45 for a set of blades for the DeWalt 735.

It's not the cost of the blades but the change out that is a PITA.

> .. I discovered that sometimes it is more
> efficient to just use something up doing a job.

Agreed.

> It was an inexpensive blade and trying to preserve it
> would have taken so much time that it wasn't worth it.

Been there, done that.

> The valuations are different on a home-shop project, but I'd still
> rather burn up a set of planer blades than try to remove all that poly
> with a belt sander - and you would definitely need to run them through
> the planer after that to take out the wows, unless you are a lot
> better with a belt sander than I am.

Building a fiberglass boat develops some different skills that just working
with wood.

A belt sander /w/ 24 grit belts, a 9" right angle sander /w/ 16 grit disks
and my favorite, a 4-1/2" right angle sander /w/ 24 grit disks are the tools
of the trade.

After while, you develop a touch using these tools.

Different strokes for different folks as the saying goes.

Lew

"Peter De Smidt" writes:

> I have a fair amount of 100 year old 2 inch maple tongue and
> groove flooring, and I'd like to glue this large face to large face to
> make a work bench top. I realize that I'll have to machine the bottom
> side flat. Which would be better to use, a 10" table saw or a router
> table? I do have a 2.5" carbide straight bit for the latter. The other
> face is covered with a very thin layer of poly varnish. Do I have to
> remove this, or could I just sand it lightly and glue it? I'm a newbie
> and so any constructive suggestions are welcome.

This is a job for abrasives.

The fine art of machining comes later.

First, use a belt sander and get rid of all that poly varnish.

Use a 24, maybe a 36 grit belt.

Not only do you want to get rid of the poly, but you want to create a good
bonding surface for the adhesive.

Next, you are going to want to use some 3/8" all thread to hold these pieces
together, so locate some 7/16" holes, say on 12" centers and thru drill
them.

Next you want to glue these boards together, me, I'd use epoxy, but maybe
you want to use TiteBond II, which also will work.

Use the 3/8" all thread as clamps as you proceed with the glue up.

When you have completed the glue up, time to head to the commercial drum
sander.

Have them sand off the tongues and the grooves leaving a flat top and bottom
with the 3/8" all thread pieces located in the middle of the approximate 2"
thickness.

Return home, edge the top, mount in position, and enjoy.

HTH

Lew

"Stephen M" writes:

> Lew,
>
> You gotta get a new planer. I can't say for sure about the 735, but my 733
> is a 10-minute job at the most. The first time I did it, "it was like wow
> man" :-)
<snip>

My investment in tools is strictly short term.

Buy the necessary tool to get the job done.

When the boat is built, will sell everything and go sailing.

At least, that's the game plan.

Lew