We were in a cabinet store, just looking for ideas. There was a great
lacking in craftsmanship, even in their high end line, especially in the
box construction. There was not a drop of glue to be seen anywhere.
Their mid-level line used cam & pin like Sauder and Ikea "in-a-box"
assembly bookshelves.
I had to cough to hide my laughter as the saleslady took us over to
their "high end" cabinets and touted, "Our high quality line uses pocket
hole construction like the Amish are known for."
I grew up near "Amish country" and don't know if they're known for their
pocket holes or not, but I do know that none of the cabinets in this
store were anywhere near the quality of Amish rejects.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On Sun, 13 Mar 2011 20:29:04 -0400, "SBH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On 3/13/2011 1:59 PM, RonB wrote:
>> ...
>>
>>> ... I asked someone in town about it and was told
>>> they are not supposed to own that kind of equipment. But they can
>>> lease it.
>>
>> The sect rules that I'm aware of in central KS around Hutch/Yoder/etc.,
>> seem to limit the proscription to the house and personal lifestyle; same
>> rules do not apply to the farm operations, for example (have lights in the
>> barn, not the house; milking machines for the dairy, no washing machine
>> for the house), etc.
>>
>> I've always presumed the same rules were in place with the furniture shop
>> and the rest of the Yoder businesses--business is business.
>>
>As I understand it, Amish churches regulate use of technology through a set
>of oral guidelines known as the Ordnung. Amish leaders aim to slow or
>prevent change if a given technology is seen to be a threat.
>
>Mennonites differ from the Amish as they do not shun the use of technology
>as much as the Amish. Therefore, will use electricity and power tools if it
>benefits them financially.
The Ohio Amish we bought out stuff from use electricity for their woodworking
but they're off-grid. They have a bank of diesel generators, which I found
somewhat amusing.
On Mar 13, 4:42=A0pm, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 3/13/2011 1:59 PM, RonB wrote:
> ...
>
> > ... I asked someone in town about it and was told
> > they are not supposed to own that kind of equipment. =A0But they can
> > lease it.
>
> The sect rules that I'm aware of in central KS around Hutch/Yoder/etc.,
> seem to limit the proscription to the house and personal lifestyle; same
> rules do not apply to the farm operations, for example (have lights in
> the barn, not the house; milking machines for the dairy, no washing
> machine for the house), etc.
>
> I've always presumed the same rules were in place with the furniture
> shop and the rest of the Yoder businesses--business is business.
>
> --
I believe it was FWW, years ago, which ran an article about a very
sophisticated woodworking shop without electric motors.
All either air or hydraulic. A single diesel engine, started with
compressed air, ran the hydraulic pump, which in turn drove a whole
mess of hydraulic motors, including air-compressors, which in turn
drove airpowered routers and sanders.
Completely non-electric.
On Mar 13, 1:18=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> I grew up near "Amish country" and don't know if they're known for their
> pocket holes or not, but I do know that none of the cabinets in this
> store were anywhere near the quality of Amish rejects.
>
> --
>
> =A0 -MIKE-
>
We learned a few years ago that not all Amish is what you expect.
We bought some bedroom furniture at an Amish store in Eureka Springs
several years ago. And as you say, it was very high quality. But as
we were shopping I noticed several large, beautiful walnut wall
carvings. Some were absolute duplicates. I asked the salesperson how
long the Amish had been doing laser etching. She smiled sheepishly
and said "Well, they do farm some of their stuff out to Mennonites."
We also stopped in an Amish furniture factory in Yoder, Kansas and
were, again, impressed with the craftsmanship. In Amish fashion, the
showroom was lighted with gas lights and heated with wood. As we left
we noted that the gate between the two shop building was open and a
door into the shop was open. I walked over to see what an old world
Amish shop looked like. Norm would have been green with envy! Latest
Delta, Powermatic, etc. I asked someone in town about it and was told
they are not supposed to own that kind of equipment. But they can
lease it.
RonB
On Sun, 13 Mar 2011 11:59:27 -0700 (PDT), RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mar 13, 1:18 pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> I grew up near "Amish country" and don't know if they're known for their
>> pocket holes or not, but I do know that none of the cabinets in this
>> store were anywhere near the quality of Amish rejects.
>>
>> --
>>
>> -MIKE-
>>
>We learned a few years ago that not all Amish is what you expect.
>
>We bought some bedroom furniture at an Amish store in Eureka Springs
>several years ago. And as you say, it was very high quality. But as
>we were shopping I noticed several large, beautiful walnut wall
>carvings. Some were absolute duplicates. I asked the salesperson how
>long the Amish had been doing laser etching. She smiled sheepishly
>and said "Well, they do farm some of their stuff out to Mennonites."
>
>We also stopped in an Amish furniture factory in Yoder, Kansas and
>were, again, impressed with the craftsmanship. In Amish fashion, the
>showroom was lighted with gas lights and heated with wood. As we left
>we noted that the gate between the two shop building was open and a
>door into the shop was open. I walked over to see what an old world
>Amish shop looked like. Norm would have been green with envy! Latest
>Delta, Powermatic, etc. I asked someone in town about it and was told
>they are not supposed to own that kind of equipment. But they can
>lease it.
We bought a bedroom and dining room in an Amish store in Navarre, Ohio. It's
all made on the premises, mostly to order (they modified the hutch to suit our
needs). Nice stuff. I want to get back up there to fill out the set and buy
a breakfast set.
> Mennonites differ from the Amish as they do not shun the use of
> technology
> as much as the Amish. Therefore, will use electricity and power
> tools if it
> benefits them financially.
----------------------------------------
Mennonites AKA: "Beardless Amishmen".
My dad used to sell oil and grease to the Amish for their tractors
that were used strictly for belt power for the saw mills.
This was during '45-'55 time period in North Central Ohio.
Not much has changed.
If the Amish buy a farm that is "on the grid", they pull the wiring
out.
Lew
Lew
On Mar 13, 2:18=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> We were in a cabinet store, just looking for ideas. =A0There was a great
> lacking in craftsmanship, even in their high end line, especially in the
> box construction. =A0There was not a drop of glue to be seen anywhere.
> Their mid-level line used cam & pin like Sauder and Ikea "in-a-box"
> assembly bookshelves.
>
> I had to cough to hide my laughter as the saleslady took us over to
> their "high end" cabinets and touted, "Our high quality line uses pocket
> hole construction like the Amish are known for."
>
> I grew up near "Amish country" and don't know if they're known for their
> pocket holes or not, but I do know that none of the cabinets in this
> store were anywhere near the quality of Amish rejects.
>
> --
>
> =A0 -MIKE-
>
> =A0 "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> =A0 =A0 =A0--Elvin Jones =A0(1927-2004)
> =A0 --
> =A0http://mikedrums.com
> =A0 [email protected]
> =A0 ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
In support of your observation, I found it interesting to learn that
Mennonites had emigrated to China.
What once was badge of honour and quality, Mennonite furniture has
gone for an absolute crap around here.
It once was a 'form-follows-function' piece of furniture, executed
meticulously, now appears to have become a 'style' made everywhere but
by Mennonites... BUT...still for the same money. $ 2700 for a simple
eating-type table is one thing.. but with FINGER jointed planks for
the apron? Glued up legs without any consideration for grain...or even
species? Then coat the whole thing with toned lacquer?
Yup, from 30 paces it LOOKS like a piece of Mennonite quality...but
come no closer. Sacrilege !!! Death to Chinese Mennonites!! OFF with
their heads!!
In article <169c26ea-4e52-4cd1-8d77-
[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> On Mar 13, 1:18 pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > I grew up near "Amish country" and don't know if they're known for their
> > pocket holes or not, but I do know that none of the cabinets in this
> > store were anywhere near the quality of Amish rejects.
> >
> > --
> >
> > -MIKE-
> >
> We learned a few years ago that not all Amish is what you expect.
>
> We bought some bedroom furniture at an Amish store in Eureka Springs
> several years ago. And as you say, it was very high quality. But as
> we were shopping I noticed several large, beautiful walnut wall
> carvings. Some were absolute duplicates. I asked the salesperson how
> long the Amish had been doing laser etching. She smiled sheepishly
> and said "Well, they do farm some of their stuff out to Mennonites."
>
> We also stopped in an Amish furniture factory in Yoder, Kansas and
> were, again, impressed with the craftsmanship. In Amish fashion, the
> showroom was lighted with gas lights and heated with wood. As we left
> we noted that the gate between the two shop building was open and a
> door into the shop was open. I walked over to see what an old world
> Amish shop looked like. Norm would have been green with envy! Latest
> Delta, Powermatic, etc. I asked someone in town about it and was told
> they are not supposed to own that kind of equipment. But they can
> lease it.
The Amish make a distinction between business and home, and generally
don't have a problem with trying new things. Guy goes to the elders,
"There's this new thing called a six-axis numerically controlled
machining center that I'd like to try out . . ." After discussion the
elders decide that he's welcome to try it as long as he understands that
he might have to give it up if it proves disruptive to the community or
damaging to community values.
In my state the Amish will use a team of four horses to pull a wagon
with a diesel generator sitting on it. Wagon has steel or wood wheels
of course. Then the PTO shaft of the diesel generator will be hooked
to the corn picker. Corn picker will be tossing the ears into a wagon
running alongside pulled by another team of horses. For some reason
its acceptable to have a diesel engine running the corn picker as long
as the diesel isn't powering itself down the field. A tractor.
On Sun, 13 Mar 2011 11:38:31 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Mar 13, 2:18Â pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
>> We were in a cabinet store, just looking for ideas. Â There was a great
>> lacking in craftsmanship, even in their high end line, especially in the
>> box construction. Â There was not a drop of glue to be seen anywhere.
>> Their mid-level line used cam & pin like Sauder and Ikea "in-a-box"
>> assembly bookshelves.
>>
>> I had to cough to hide my laughter as the saleslady took us over to
>> their "high end" cabinets and touted, "Our high quality line uses pocket
>> hole construction like the Amish are known for."
>>
>> I grew up near "Amish country" and don't know if they're known for their
>> pocket holes or not, but I do know that none of the cabinets in this
>> store were anywhere near the quality of Amish rejects.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Â -MIKE-
>>
>> Â "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
>>    --Elvin Jones  (1927-2004)
>> Â --
>> Â http://mikedrums.com
>> Â [email protected]
>> Â ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
>
>In support of your observation, I found it interesting to learn that
>Mennonites had emigrated to China.
>What once was badge of honour and quality, Mennonite furniture has
>gone for an absolute crap around here.
>It once was a 'form-follows-function' piece of furniture, executed
>meticulously, now appears to have become a 'style' made everywhere but
>by Mennonites... BUT...still for the same money. $ 2700 for a simple
>eating-type table is one thing.. but with FINGER jointed planks for
>the apron? Glued up legs without any consideration for grain...or even
>species? Then coat the whole thing with toned lacquer?
>Yup, from 30 paces it LOOKS like a piece of Mennonite quality...but
>come no closer. Sacrilege !!! Death to Chinese Mennonites!! OFF with
>their heads!!
Actually, there HAVE been Mennonites in China for many years - but
they are not the "amish" or "old order" and they don't make "mennonite
furniture" and export it to the USA or Canada.
"dpb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 3/13/2011 1:59 PM, RonB wrote:
> ...
>
>> ... I asked someone in town about it and was told
>> they are not supposed to own that kind of equipment. But they can
>> lease it.
>
> The sect rules that I'm aware of in central KS around Hutch/Yoder/etc.,
> seem to limit the proscription to the house and personal lifestyle; same
> rules do not apply to the farm operations, for example (have lights in the
> barn, not the house; milking machines for the dairy, no washing machine
> for the house), etc.
>
> I've always presumed the same rules were in place with the furniture shop
> and the rest of the Yoder businesses--business is business.
>
As I understand it, Amish churches regulate use of technology through a set
of oral guidelines known as the Ordnung. Amish leaders aim to slow or
prevent change if a given technology is seen to be a threat.
Mennonites differ from the Amish as they do not shun the use of technology
as much as the Amish. Therefore, will use electricity and power tools if it
benefits them financially.
Sounds like the men have an absolute need to for modern machine whilst the
women would be sinners with them.
-------------------------
"dpb" wrote in message news:[email protected]...
The sect rules that I'm aware of in central KS around Hutch/Yoder/etc.,
seem to limit the proscription to the house and personal lifestyle; same
rules do not apply to the farm operations, for example (have lights in
the barn, not the house; milking machines for the dairy, no washing
machine for the house), etc.
I've always presumed the same rules were in place with the furniture
shop and the rest of the Yoder businesses--business is business.
--
On 3/13/2011 1:59 PM, RonB wrote:
...
> ... I asked someone in town about it and was told
> they are not supposed to own that kind of equipment. But they can
> lease it.
The sect rules that I'm aware of in central KS around Hutch/Yoder/etc.,
seem to limit the proscription to the house and personal lifestyle; same
rules do not apply to the farm operations, for example (have lights in
the barn, not the house; milking machines for the dairy, no washing
machine for the house), etc.
I've always presumed the same rules were in place with the furniture
shop and the rest of the Yoder businesses--business is business.
--
On 3/13/2011 4:39 PM, Robatoy wrote:
...
> I believe it was FWW, years ago, which ran an article about a very
> sophisticated woodworking shop without electric motors.
> All either air or hydraulic. A single diesel engine, started with
> compressed air, ran the hydraulic pump, which in turn drove a whole
> mess of hydraulic motors, including air-compressors, which in turn
> drove airpowered routers and sanders.
> Completely non-electric.
I recall that as well.
It's been a number of years since I've actually stopped in Yoder; then
they were running off a large diesel genset as "off-the-grid" was req'd
even though could use the power in the shops (or farms, meat
packing/butcher shop, etc., etc., ...).
Only an insider can really figure out the ins and outs of where the
actual lines are.
Re: the other poster on the man/woman thing; in Yoder it's same way in
the businesses that are women-dominant--it appears they use whatever the
going is in the business; it's the personal activities that are
proscribed against having "luxuries".
--
On 3/13/2011 7:29 PM, SBH wrote:
...
> Mennonites differ from the Amish as they do not shun the use of technology
> as much as the Amish. Therefore, will use electricity and power tools if it
> benefits them financially.
...
They differ within the broad classification as well...there's another
group closer to us than Hutchinson/Yoder area that are _much_ more
strict than those around Yoder...
--
"-MIKE-" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> We were in a cabinet store, just looking for ideas. There was a great
> lacking in craftsmanship, even in their high end line, especially in the
> box construction. There was not a drop of glue to be seen anywhere.
> Their mid-level line used cam & pin like Sauder and Ikea "in-a-box"
> assembly bookshelves.
>
> I had to cough to hide my laughter as the saleslady took us over to
> their "high end" cabinets and touted, "Our high quality line uses pocket
> hole construction like the Amish are known for."
>
> I grew up near "Amish country" and don't know if they're known for their
> pocket holes or not, but I do know that none of the cabinets in this
> store were anywhere near the quality of Amish rejects.
Yes there are different qualities of Amish furniture like everything else.
We have a large upper scale shopping mall in the SW Houston area that had a
store that sold Amish furniture. It was CRAP. The store did not last.
I have found that the better furniture is typically ordered, not in stock,
and the price of the piece is the delivered in side your house price,
assuming you live a reasonable distance from the store.
My wife and I recently bought 6 Amish dining room chairs that seem to be top
quality. What I did not buld them? LOL $250 each. Probably at least $100
worth of wood in each chair, can I build a chair like this for $150? No,
maybe if I was building a dozen or so. AND we probably looked at 8~9 Amish
stores in the last 2 years and found this particular chair in most all of
the stores. The problem is that while they looked the same they don't feel
the same. Between the first store which we found in a small town 200+ miles
away and the store that we bought from we never found the chair that felt
right. IMHO chairs have to feel good too, since all the chairs in the
different stores looked the same but did not feel the same I felt that going
to the trouble to build a copy might very well result in a good looking
chair but there was a chance it might not feel the same. Our chairs came
with a life time warranty.