This post is aimed at all you sinophobes out there.
I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of
shit: what do you expect? It's made in China!".
Now it is true that a lot of crap--boatloads of it, literally--does come
from that great country. We've all seen it, used it, chucked it out.
But bear in mind the historical precedent: some of you are probably old
enough to remember the similar tarring of anything that had the label
"Made in Japan" on it. Anything Japanese was considered worthless.
Compare to today.
I'm finding more and more that "Made in China" really doesn't mean
anything about the quality of an item. Clearly, Chinese workers, as
underpaid as they may be, are quite capable of making anything as well
as anyone else in any other part of the world.
Part of the problem is that we're placing blame in the wrong place. The
*real* problem seems to be "Made in [anyplace] but designed in the U.S.
[or some other place]". A lot, if not most, of what I would call
"Chinese junk" is actually made as well as the design would allow for,
including the materials used and the amount of labor committed to
finishing the item. So in many cases Chinese factories are making
faithful copies of a shitty design that may well have come from some
designer's computah right here in The Greatest Industrial Power on Earth
(the US of A).
I predict the Chinese are following the same arc that the Japanese did
after WWII, with variations, of course; there's no Marshall Plan, and
the countries are vastly different. Nonetheless, I can forsee the day
when "Made in China" is no longer a call for derision.
By way of showing just how wrong people can be when predicting who's
winning the industrial game, here's a hilariously and astoundingly wrong
prediction about the Japanese and American photographic industries from
1946: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-136.html
--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.
- harvested from Usenet
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> FWIW, I have a friend who has a PhD in education, and is retired, not
>>> fired,
>>> so one can't claim that he is "disgruntled", who shares the opinion
>>> that the
>>> flaws in the system are inherent in the educational philosophy
>>> currently being taught in the colleges of education, and in the
>>> poltical tendency to require the schools to provide more and more
>>> social functions that are not rightly part of education.
>>>
>>
>> So what was he doing to remedy the situation?
>
> What do you think he _can_ do? It's easy to recognize that the carrier is
> aground. Getting it off the rocks is a lot harder.
I certainly don't think he can solve the problem.
"Leon" wrote:
> I replaced my electric water heater early in 2004. Looking at the
> efficiency label on the old water heater and comparing to the new
> $300 water heater installed by me, I determined that it would pay
> for itself in less than 2 years.
Does your utility offer discount rates for an electric hot water
heater that operates only during off peak hours?
When my dad built our house in 1947, he installed a 100 gallon tank
for 3 people that only operated at night.
We always had hot water heated by low cost electricity.
Lew
.
Lew
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:49:36 GMT, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2009-12-19, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Cheapest car I've ever bought was a '64 Karman Ghia convertible in 1975.
>> Paid $15 for it. Worth every penny too.
>
>We've seen most every brand represented but American Motors. In '73 I
>bought a '60 Rambler American 2-dr with a brand new rebuilt flathead
>straight six (1-barrel!) for $25. It was one of the most enjoyable
>cars I've ever owned. Drove it for 5 yrs without a single problem.
>Cruised effortlessly at 75mph and got 23mpg. When I bought it, it had
>no driver's side window, yet the snowy OR Winters were no match for
>the heater which would keep the interior at bread baking temps at
>65mph in 20 deg F weather. It was 2 yrs before I got around to
>replacing the window. If I could find a '60 station wagon version in
>good shape, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. ;)
>
>http://jalopnik.com/5288930/1960-rambler-american-custom
>
>nb
Talking AMC - Our family has had a few.
Dad bought a 61 American (ex Bell Canada) to use as a truck, then gave
it to my brother to drive. When he was finished with it, it became a
truck again, untill it was no longer fit for the road and my younger
brother used it as a "field car" for a couple years. He tried hard to
kill it, but couldn't. Dad also had a 64 Classic that was used as a
truck - and he gave it to one of his men to drive because it was
better than the heap he was hauling his family around in. Dad also
bought a brand new 1968 Rebel wagon.
I had a '65 classic that I bought for $65, drove for 6 months, and
sold for $300 when I left to go to Aftica in 1973. Then I had a 1975
Pacer for a few years, and a 1972 Ambassagor SST 9 passenger wagon.
Then there was the "pre-AMC" 1937 or 1938 Terraplane.
They were ALL good cars (with the exception of the "terrible pain")
I always liked the styling of the late '50s Ramblers.
[email protected] wrote:
>> Cheapest car I've ever bought was a '64 Karman Ghia convertible in
>> 1975. Paid $15 for it. Worth every penny too.
>
> That's not hard. One good laugh is worth $15 today!!!!
When I bought it, the car did not run. We did get it going, but soon after
spent another $55 on rings and bearings, then it ran really well.
There was no heat because the ducting for heated air rusted out. I was
caught in a torrential rain on the PA Turnpike one day. Drove for some
miles and when I hit the brakes, it was like a tidal wave as the accumulated
water in the back floor rushed forward over my feet. The back plastic
window was pop riveted in place and fogged so that you could not see through
it.
With the help of my brother, we converted it to 12 volt. He took a GM Delco
alternator and had the shaft bored and threaded to go over the existing
shaft of the VW generator pulley in place of the nut. A bracket was
fabricated to keep the alternator body from spinning. All the bulbs wee
changed and a rheostat controlled the wiper motor. The starter, OTOH,
really cranked on 12V.
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 09:46:27 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>> Their style has varied so much, and so often, that it's pretty hard
>> to say you don't like their style as a reason to have never owned one
>> and to say you never will.
>>
>> I'll own another Chrysler long before I'll own another GM!!!!!
>
>Varied does not mean pleasing to my eyes in any variation. The Stratus was
>not so bad and I even drove a rental on a trip, but I never cared for
>anything else and did not like the Stratus enough to by one. Never cared for
>the Dodge Charger that so many guys fawned over. The group they have now is
>just plain ugly, IMO. Obviously, others like them or they never would have
>made it out of the factory.
>
>I like GM style, but that is about all they offer these days. I have a
>deteriorating Buick in my driveway that I liked for the first 30,000 miles,
>but things started going wrong.
Boy, you got a GOOD one!!
> Best quality and most trouble free car I've
>ever owned was my '07 Hyundai Sonata with 67,000 trouble free miles. Only
>maintenance was 2 tires and oil changes. I just bought a '10 last week.
>It will the last of the V-6 on Sonata.
>
>Cheapest car I've ever bought was a '64 Karman Ghia convertible in 1975.
>Paid $15 for it. Worth every penny too.
That's not hard. One good laugh is worth $15 today!!!!
>
>Best resale value was a '64 Pontiac Tempest. Paid $100 for it, drove it for
>a year, sold it back to the original owner for $100.
>
>Most fun car was a '62 Corvair
>
>Most expensive to both buy and maintain was '83 a Mercedes 300D
If you need to ask "how much" you know you can't afford it, The
purchace price of a Mercedes is just the "entry fee"
>
"RonB" wrote:
---------------------------------
On the bright side, lawyers fly too.
The old V-tail is a good airplane but you can't overcome perception so
the went conventional.
During the airline strike in the mid 60s, had to get from Cleveland to
San Angelo, TX.
Almost an impossible task, but there was a solution.
Had a tech service guy who was rebuilding a "Banana" while keeping it
in flying condition.
He became our airline.
Had a grass strip beside his house to allow him to keep the plane at
home while he worked on it.
The plane had seen service in Alaska and thus had the big Lycoming
engine in it according to the tech.
Cleveland to Memphis to Dallas to San Angelo.
Made for an interesting and very long Sunday.
Arrived in San Angelo to be greeted by newspaper headlines announcing
that race riots had broken out in Cleveland on Saturday night.
Some very interesting tales to tell about that trip.
Among other things, learned about Omnis and how to use them.
Lew
"Robatoy" wrote:
> I once met a beautiful French woman. I was fascinated by her
> beauty...till I saw the hairy armpits and legs and smelled the
> Gauloises on her clothes.
> =================================
Reformed smokers (Me) are the worst.
Have a supply of business card size handouts that read:
"Let's make a deal:
You don't smoke and I won't fart".
Lew
"Swingman" wrote:
> I have a 01 Dodge PU ... beginning to rethink the decision, a little
> late.
Stepped out of the diesel rabbit and into a 99 "Tonka toy".
A 4 banger /W/ a 5 spd stick.
Passed 100K a few years ago with only rubber and wearing replacement
parts needed.
Still gets 25 MPG.
Can't complain.
Lew
"Smitty Two" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:prestwhich-C09EA5.07495818122009@newsfarm.iad.highwinds-media.com...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Do the presently employed teachers do a good job teaching
>> the liberal agenda? Be dumb. Be compliant. Fear global
>> warming. And, lets teach everyone how to have "safe" sex by
>> rolling a condom on a cucumber before going to town.
>>
>> --
>
> If you're having sex with a cucumber, you don't need a condom.
=========================
Think pesticides.
Think rash.
I knew a somebody who found this out the hard way.
Somebody wrote:
> As long as we're bragging, my 1970 Ford Custom got 9mph.
>
> 'Course it had a police interceptor engine, a calibrated speedometer
> up to
> 140, an 8-quart crankcase, and, believe it or not, a DELCO
> alternator.
Police vehicle?
1970?
Delco alternator?
Very doubtful.
That was Leece-Neville business back then.
Lew
"Swingman" wrote:
> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
> spaceships.
-------------------------------------------
During my days on the design board in the late 50s, had several
European immigrants in my design group.
They would spend all kinds of time designing complex weldments to use
the least amount of material but usually involved lots of welding
time.
It was understandable.
Europe had been flattened during WWII and materials were scarce in
Europe.
Had to constantly remind these guys that the equipment we were
designing was being sold by the pound, not the complexity of design.
Lew
Somebody wrote:
> By way of showing just how wrong people can be when predicting
> who's winning the industrial game, here's a hilariously and
> astoundingly wrong prediction about the Japanese and American
> photographic industries from 1946:
-----------------------------------------------------
During the 60s, I was involved with bearing applications for
automotive electrical systems.
There are more basic 203 ball bearings manufactured than all the rest
of the bearing sizes combined.
Had the guy representing Japanese bearings come calling with some
impressive stats as well as very attractive pricing.
As a bearing supplier competitor remarked, "First the bearings, then
the alternator, vacuum sweeper, etc."
Took about 15-20 years, but they got there.
Lew
"Swingman" wrote:
> Once again, there is NOTHING like it, and it is "European
> engineered".
====================================
Depends.
Germans build most of the cars.
Italians sew some great shoes and great hand built cars, tailored
suits and what great food.
I wouldn't want a car built by the French.
The Dutch provide some great chocolate manufacturing machinery.
Then there are the Swiss. If you have to ask, you can't afford.
So it depends.
===============================
Having represented several European instrument manufacturers over the
years, it is obvious they have a whole different way of looking at
things.
Europeans expect to perform routine maintenance on a regular basis,
while for the most part US users have adopted the Andrew Carnegie
approach of install the equipment, run it till it drops, remove to the
junk yard, and install new equipment.
Most European equipment will not survive without regular maintenance,
USA goods OTOH, usually will for an extended period of time.
BTDT, no T-shirt needed.
Lew
"RonB" wrote:
Much of the airframe and
wiring in venerable aircraft like the Beech Bonanza and King Air are
manufactured in Mexico and assembled in Kansas; avionics guts come
from the east.
------------------------------------------
"Beech Bonanza", or as described to me by a pilot in Tulsa, "Split
tailed doctor killer".
Lew
"Jules" wrote:
> My
> fridge/freezer is over 30 years old and still going - but I don't
> think I
> could walk into any modern appliance store and say "sell me a fridge
> that'll still be going in 2039".
----------------------------------
It may still be operating, but at what efficiency?
There were some 1,000 watt mercury lamps on life test.
The rated life of the lamp was 20,000 hours.
Lamp was still operating after 20+ years of 24/7 service; however, the
light output was less than 5% of initial output.
Your reefer may be in the same mode.
Lew
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> No new text?
>
My next door neighbor has 2 Chryslers. Both cars sound like bombs
exploding when they start their cars.
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:22:54 -0600, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote in message
>news:161220092126090752%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca...
>>>
>> A surprising number of the best NASA scientists and engineers came from
>> Canada after the Avro Arrow project was canceled by the Diefenbaker
>> Conservative government.
>>
>> <http://www.avroarrow.org/AvroArrow/Avroengineers.html>
>
>
>Considering that they were getting a better offer than staying in Canada,
>the numbers may not be so suprising. What may be suprising is the number of
>Canadian sientists that Canada could not hold on to.
>
The Canadian Aerospace industry evaporated overnight, and NASA and the
US companies snatched up the best aerospace workers as part of the
deal.
On Dec 17, 4:23=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Leon wrote:
> > "Percival P. Cassidy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> Nonny wrote:
>
> >>> According to the book, "Small Wonder," the beetle was designed by Dr.
> >>> Porsche and the basic design was so good that only refinements were m=
ade
> >>> over its long manufacturing run. =A0IMHO, if there's any secret to VW=
's
> >>> beetle, it was that they got lots and lots of feedback from owners
> >>> bringing the car in with the little glitches. If there was consistenc=
y to
> >>> a glitch, like a door handle that kept breaking, VW would design a ne=
w
> >>> and improved one and start using them. =A0The product was continually
> >>> refined and improved, within the limitations of the basic design or
> >>> concept.
>
> >>> I had an '71 Super Beetle and felt it was an excellent car if you
> >>> overlooked the lack of heat in IN/MI winters. <grin>
> >> ISTR hearing a long time ago, that when VW asked for an independent
> >> evaluation of the design, the only suggestion made was to increase the
> >> size of the rear window -- which they did, of course.
>
> > They could'a also put the battery on top of the car and that would'a be=
en a
> > better place than under the back seat.
>
> You obviously never had to deal with a Renault 4CV?? :)
>
> =A0 ... now that car was NOT a good example of "European engineering"!
>
> My Dad got one for his work car in the 50's and it was a constant battle
> keeping it running.
>
> It's where I learned how to use a bolt extractor, removing twisted off
> head bolts, which they frequently did.
>
> Then again, it was French ...
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 10/22/08
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
Funny you should mention the French. In the early 50's, the DS Ciroen
has a whole whack of brilliant ideas incorporated in their cars.
(NOT talking about the execution of those ideas, because that is
another thread/book/internet)
Stuff like front-wheel drive, steerable headlights, pneumatic-
adjustable suspension, low drag co-efficient, collapsable steering
wheel etc.
The 2CV (Ugly Duckling) transported a lot of college kids all over
Europe. Cheap, easy to fix, great on fuel, but don't ever end up in
the middle of the back-seat because you will hurt...or so I'm told.
During practice laps for the Grand Prix of Canada in Montreal, Thiery
Boutson's Renault had a sound unlike anything I had ever heard.
He won. Air actuated valves. No camshaft(s) They could adjust the size
of and shape of the 'soft-ware' lobe and duration and height of valve
lift as the car was going around the track. The French are not stupid.
and
then
there
was
Bardot.
In article <[email protected]>, J. Clarke
<[email protected]> wrote:
> CW wrote:
> > "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> HeyBub wrote:
> >>> Swingman wrote:
> >>>> Jules wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less.
> >>>>> There are talented folk there, same as anywhere else
> >>>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
> >>>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers,
> >>>> to spaceships.
> >>>
> >>> The Europeans built a spaceship? I think Flash Gordon was an
> >>> American...
> >>>
> >>> Last I heard, the Europeans were trying to put up their own GPS
> >>> satellite system - for reasons passing understanding.
> >>
> >> Tsk, tsk ... you get into space on "rockets", Bubba ... Wernher Von
> >> Braun
> >>
> > Yes, the success of the American space program was due to imports.
> > They imported Germany's best scientists.
>
> So what percentage of the engineers working on Apollo were German?
>
> Hint--go to Youtube and search on "Disney Moon" and you'll find that the
> concept that Von Braun was pushing pre-Apollo was considerably different
> from what actually flew (and before you make some ignorant sneering remark
> about Disney, do the search and watch the episode).
A surprising number of the best NASA scientists and engineers came from
Canada after the Avro Arrow project was canceled by the Diefenbaker
Conservative government.
<http://www.avroarrow.org/AvroArrow/Avroengineers.html>
In article <[email protected]>, Lew Hodgett
<[email protected]> wrote:
> "CW" wrote:
>
> > Yes, the success of the American space program was due to imports.
> > They imported Germany's best scientists.
>
> The same is true of digital photography and fiber optics.
>
> Both developed in the US by non US citizens.
Not quite... The CCD was developed by Boyle, one of us (Canuck) and
Smith, one of you (Murrican). The Nobel went to both.
Ref:
<http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/2009/info_publ_phy
_09_en.pdf>
Careful, Lew. You're moving into our Canadian self-deprecation
territory and you do NOT want to infringe on that. We can be SERIOUS
about that.
;-)
On Dec 16, 4:20=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jules wrote:
> > They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There ar=
e
> > talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>
> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
> spaceships.
Yeah, Japanese saws suck.
On 2009-12-18, Peter Huebner <[email protected]> wrote:
> And, talking of reliable European cars, I've known quite a few series 2
> Volvos that cracked half a million kilometres ... Now that Ford are
> messing with the Volvo design I think that will not be the case any
> more, I won't buy another Volvo designed & built since 2006. Currently
> driving an 850 wagon and an XC70. Wonderful cars to drive, but lots of
> little things go wrong all of the time :-(
Even the supposedly best of them ...Mercedes and BMW.... are not
without flaws. My buddies SL head gasket leaks oil like the Exxon Vadez and its
paint went just as quickly as my same year Civic in the scorching CA
sun. Another friend's BMW dash upholstery split open like ripe puffball, and it
only 8 yrs old. I've seen brand new Mercedes with orange peel paint
to rival the worst from detroit. Having recently moved here to CO,
I'm stunned to find how popular Buicks are. Talked to a Fifth Ave
owner who had 350K miles without a hiccup. Quality is where you find
it and not necessarily from where you expect it.
nb
On 2009-12-16, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
> engineering for built-in quality.....
What nonsense. I've had plenty of Euro made items that were junk,
including German made. Italy makes enough crap to drag the whole
continent's curve below avg! ;)
nb
"Tony Hwang" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
snip
Snip
Only poor craftsman blames the tool.
Oh crap! I have heard the me too expression way too many times now.
Really and truly a poor craftsman "does not recognize" that he is not
working with quality tools.
A fine craftsman will remedy that situation with quality work through
quality tools.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Smitty Two wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Leon wrote:
>>> Snip
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I bought the VW's on their past reputation.
>>>>
>>>> The "Volkswagen", the original design, is what I was talking about.
>>>> Not the price point engineered models they started making to woo
>>>> and placate the American consumer with the junk they prefer.
>>>
>>> Exactly!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The original VW bug was inexpensive to buy, and relatively inexpensive
>> to repair. That is hardly the same as being reliable.
>
> However since there was so little to it, it tended to be reliable as
> well--there just wan't much on it that could break.
>
Had two of them while living in Ethiopia. Very reliable. If parts were
needed, you could get them there, unlike most cars. Also, being air cooled,
would not boil over and leave you stranded in the desert, a potentially
deadly situation.
On 2009-12-16, Larry C <[email protected]> wrote:
> To the poster who mentioned about how Japanese made used to be a joke. When
> I was a kid, I am 46 now, my dad owned a NAPA store. I can remember the
> comments when a customer came in to purchase parts for a Datsun or a Toyota.
> The joke was the price of the replacement part would double the value of the
> car. Not so much anymore.
Then the pendulum swung the other way and Japanese products were
considered the best (cameras, electronics, etc) when, in fact, they
were no more great than when they were considered crap. I had a
closet full of dead Japanese stuff that barely made it to warranty.
Perception is a lot of it.
The price thing about car parts is a little more complicated. When
Japanese cars first hit our shores, parts were insane. $600 for one
CV joint for a Civic. Later, aftermarket mfrs/rebuilders got
into the act and drove prices waaaay down. I bought a PAIR of rebuilt
joints for the same car for $125. Later, when rebuilding a Honda
alternator, I got Honda parts cheaper from the dealer than the local
discount parts store. Pays to shop around.
nb
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of
>> shit: what do you expect? It's made in China!".
>
> You mean like drywall, C-Less' "64GB USB Drive", and the stuff at Harbor
> Fright?
>
> A rose by any other name ...
>
> Fuck China, and "Made in USA", for that matter ... I'm buying "European"
> like Laguna, Festool, Omer, et al products every chance I get these days.
You got something Italian on order again? Lagu....
J. Clarke wrote:
>
> Uh, you might want to actually get drunk with a few teachers sometime
> before you blame them. They have to do what they can with what
> they've got and what they've got these days isn't much (and I'm not
> talking about the kids, I'm talking about the rules they are required
> to work under). Wanna fix education, first shoot all the professors
> of education and all the school boards.
John Silber, former president of Boston College, was asked what one thing
could be done to improve the quality of education in America. He answered:
"Abolish colleges of education."
On 2009-12-18, Stormin Mormon <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 318 was a pain, I may still have my 12 point distributor
> wrench. 9/16 was it?
Depends on the vehicle. I had a 318 in a 74 van. When the weather
became very hot (100+), specially after they took the lead out of gas,
it would ping badly going up a grade. I timed it by removing the
engine shroud, loosening the distibutor clamp nut, and adjusting the
distributor until the pinging ceased. All this while driving up said
grade, the distributor being a within easy reach of my right hand.
> I remember my Mopars being very moisture sensetive. Even
> knowing the module ground and all, somtimes they just didn't
> want to start if there was some humidity around. Or rain the
> day before.
I had this happen once. I removed the distibutor cap and saw it was
literally dripping moisture. I liberally sprayed it and the points
with WD40 and reassembled. Fired right up. The WD stands for water
displacement.
nb
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:05:22 -0600, Jules
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 11:07:22 -0600, krw wrote:
>>>> Definitely downhill on serviceability, but thankfully they require a
>>>> lot less.
>>>
>>>Yes, but they make up for it by often costing a small fortune when
>>>something *does* go wrong...
>>
>> Not so much now. It's not like the '80s with the GM "computer
>> controlled" carburetors. I had to replace all of the spark coils (two
>> at a time - they wouldn't replace them all the first time) on the '00
>> Sable. It was a couple of hundred each time, but that's not so bad.
>
>Well, I suppose a lot of the cost these days is in the labor to fix it, so
>if you can do stuff yourself you save a lot - but the parts on more modern
>vehicles that do go wrong always seem to be more complicated and therefore
>more expensive to me.
I've found that I spend *way* less on repairs over the life of a car
than I did 20 years ago. It's unusual for anything other than wear
parts (brakes, tires, etc.) to go bad anymore.
>>>... plus I like keeping it simple; if something does go wrong when I'm
>>>out in the middle of nowhere, there's more chance I can fix it by the
>>>roadside in an older vehicle than a modern one. I like that safety and
>>>convenience.
>>
>> The more chance you'll have to. I *like* fuel injection and all of
>> that. The only repairs I've ever had to make to a fuel injection system
>> was a leaking distribution rail in my Vision and that was under a
>> (silent) recall.
>
>I have issues with any computer-controlled stuff, though. If it was
>accessible, they gave me full schematics and a copy of the firmware then I
>wouldn't mind; I can fix it myself if it does break. But I really don't
>like stuff that's "black boxed" like that and considered not to be field
>servicable.
It doesn't break, though. I have no use for schematics or firmware.
I'm certainly not going to take the time to learn what makes it tick,
much less rewrite any of it.
>Agreed on the "mechanical" side of FI, though - definitely better than a
>carb (although I've stripped and restored a few carbs now and they're not
>too bad and *should* work for a long time before they next need to be
>messed with).
>
>>My '78 Granada went through at least a carb a year.
>
>How come? Was that a known bad design, or was something else causing the
>failure (the fuel used, lack of fuel line filter etc.)? I suppose it does
>matter how many miles you were putting on it, but I'd expect a good carb
>to go for close on 100k miles before needing major surgery.
I have no idea. It was a 1bbl Carter but couldn't even get the one
lung working right. Rebuilding it was a waste of time (they once
tried it four times in three months). They were cheap but being
without a car wasn't.
>(I'm starting to feel sorry for all these woodworking folk putting up with
>this thread :-)
>
That's why thread kills were invented.
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 13:05:22 -0600, Jules
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 11:07:22 -0600, krw wrote:
>>>> Definitely downhill on serviceability, but thankfully they require a
>>>> lot less.
>>>
>>>Yes, but they make up for it by often costing a small fortune when
>>>something *does* go wrong...
>>
>> Not so much now. It's not like the '80s with the GM "computer
>> controlled" carburetors. I had to replace all of the spark coils (two
>> at a time - they wouldn't replace them all the first time) on the '00
>> Sable. It was a couple of hundred each time, but that's not so bad.
>
>Well, I suppose a lot of the cost these days is in the labor to fix it, so
>if you can do stuff yourself you save a lot - but the parts on more modern
>vehicles that do go wrong always seem to be more complicated and therefore
>more expensive to me.
>
>>>... plus I like keeping it simple; if something does go wrong when I'm
>>>out in the middle of nowhere, there's more chance I can fix it by the
>>>roadside in an older vehicle than a modern one. I like that safety and
>>>convenience.
>>
>> The more chance you'll have to. I *like* fuel injection and all of
>> that. The only repairs I've ever had to make to a fuel injection system
>> was a leaking distribution rail in my Vision and that was under a
>> (silent) recall.
>
>I have issues with any computer-controlled stuff, though. If it was
>accessible, they gave me full schematics and a copy of the firmware then I
>wouldn't mind; I can fix it myself if it does break. But I really don't
>like stuff that's "black boxed" like that and considered not to be field
>servicable.
>
>Agreed on the "mechanical" side of FI, though - definitely better than a
>carb (although I've stripped and restored a few carbs now and they're not
>too bad and *should* work for a long time before they next need to be
>messed with).
>
>>My '78 Granada went through at least a carb a year.
>
>How come? Was that a known bad design, or was something else causing the
>failure (the fuel used, lack of fuel line filter etc.)? I suppose it does
>matter how many miles you were putting on it, but I'd expect a good carb
>to go for close on 100k miles before needing major surgery.
>
Terrible carb, and most of the "rebuilts" were even worse.
>(I'm starting to feel sorry for all these woodworking folk putting up with
>this thread :-)
>
>cheers
>
>Jules
>
On Dec 17, 9:29=A0am, Smitty Two <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
>
>
>
>
>
> =A0"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> > > Leon wrote:
> > Snip
>
> > >> I bought the VW's on their past reputation.
>
> > > The "Volkswagen", the original design, is what I was talking about. N=
ot
> > > the price point engineered models they started making to woo and plac=
ate
> > > the American consumer with the junk they prefer.
>
> > Exactly!
>
> The original VW bug was inexpensive to buy, and relatively inexpensive
> to repair. That is hardly the same as being reliable.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
The equivalent of the Ford Model T in postwar Germany.
TMT
On 2009-12-17, dgk <[email protected]> wrote:
> Many years ago I had a Fiat 124 Spyder. I called it the Fiat 124
> Lemon. I did buy it used so perhaps it was just maintained terribly,
> but almost every other week something went wrong. The alternator died,
> the string operating the clutch broke, the transmission developed
> problems, and just endless crap.
>
> I guess it just depends on when it got put together.
Yes, the Italians make Ferraris and $80K shotguns, etc. They also
make Fiats. You want the real survivability lowdown on Fiat. I'm
from sunny CA where cars NEVER RUST!. If it's worth a damn, it will
last forever. In the early 70s, after I got out of the service, CA
roads were lousy with Fiats 850s and 124s. It was a craze and ppl
bought them by the ship load. They were as common as VW bugs. Thirty
years later, they are rarer than an honest politician. In fact, in
the last 5 yrs I spent commuting 70 miles a day on SFBA freeways, I
was stunned to see a single running 850 Spyder, it having been so long
since seeing one, I'd actually forgotten they'd ever existed. Pre-70
Borgwards are more common. If Fiat reliability is any indication of
European quality engineering, Chrysler is screwed!
nb
>>
>>
>When I was a little kid, we always included "the starving children in
>China" in our prayers (hadn't discovered Africa yet). Just to show how
>times have changed.....just the other day, this wonderful, sweet
>missionary knocked on our door. He handed me $5, a bag of rice and a
>dead duck. He didn't speak clear English, but left a pamphlet in
>Chinese and badly translated English inviting all of the neighborhood
>children to Buddhist services.
THIS PART is the best.....
> It also mentioned that all the
>neighborhood children would be welcome at classes to learn to speak and
>write Chinese, gardening, raising livestock, building inexpensive
>housing, cooking with a wok, using alternative fuels, and respect for
>elders. It also said that the Chinese had saved so much money, they
>were buying America and sending homesteaders over to run the country
>properly. ;o)
Seems like this has already happened with the Japanese and Germans
On 12/16/2009 3:03 PM Percival P. Cassidy spake thus:
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> By way of showing just how wrong people can be when predicting
>> who's winning the industrial game, here's a hilariously and
>> astoundingly wrong prediction about the Japanese and American
>> photographic industries from 1946:
>> http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-136.html
>
> In UK in the late 1950s already, when I was becoming seriously
> interested in photography, I don't think any American cameras were
> considered high quality. The really good stuff was Leica (German) and
> Hasselblad (Swedish? -- both mucho expensivo). Praktica (E. German) was
> OK. Some of the Japanese brands were coming onto the market, IIRC. I'm
> not sure that Kodak was considered a serious photographer's camera.
Kodak did make some cameras used by serious photogs, even after the
Japanese kicked our asses in that arena, but they were mostly obscure
models used by specialists. Like their view (studio) cameras and lenses
made for aerial photography, to name a couple. Their one top-of-the-line
35mm camera (the Ektra) was already out of production by that time.
After that, about the best they could come up with were consumer-level
cameras, like the Instamatic, which they did sell by the millions. But
all high-quality stuff was, as you point out, either German (Leica,
Voigtlander), Swedish (Hassy), or, mostly, Japanese (lessee: Nikon,
Canon, Ricoh, Minolta, Miranda, Yashica, Olympus, Bronica, Fuji, etc., etc.
The single exception I can think of is the Graflex press cameras (Crown
and Speed Graphics), made here in the US and used around the world up
through the 1970s.
--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.
- harvested from Usenet
On 2009-12-16 16:12:26 -0500, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> said:
> Anyone who wants to sell anything in a competing market has to make it
> as cheaply as can be done in Mexico, China, Bangladesh, etc....what
> they make is done under an entirely different labor economy (and
> socialized medicine, probably). But you know that already.
This is called marketing to a price point. One interesting extension to
this is Fender guitars -- how much to you want to pay for your Strat?
Indonesian, Chinese, Korean, Mexican, or American?
From the audience, they all look pretty much the same*. But to the
experienced player...
*Except for the ones "lovingly" aged, that is, and you'll pay dearly
for someone beatin' the Hell out of your axe.
On 12/16/2009 4:26 PM Tim Daneliuk spake thus:
> On 12/16/2009 5:56 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> The single exception I can think of is the Graflex press cameras (Crown
>> and Speed Graphics), made here in the US and used around the world up
>> through the 1970s.
>
> These were- and are- wonderful cameras. They're even better when you
> throw away the coke bottle lenses (Ektars) that came with them and shove
> a nice German Schneider onto the snout of the camera :)
I disagree; I have a Crown with the Ektar 127mm lens, and it's sharp as
a tack. The lens to stay away from here, apparently, and surprisingly,
is the Xenar, which is usually a great piece of glass but for some
reason the ones found with Graphics usually suck. The Optars that a lot
others come with is just so-so.
What I'd really like to get my hands on would be one of Kodak's wide
field Ektars (speaking of quality American-made stuff). Check these out
on eBay--they usually sell for really big $$$. (Of course, a Super
Angulon would be nice too ...)
--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.
- harvested from Usenet
On 12/17/2009 5:01 AM dadiOH spake thus:
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> The single exception I can think of is the Graflex press cameras
>> (Crown and Speed Graphics), made here in the US and used around the
>> world up through the 1970s.
>
> Thank heavens they expired :)
Why do you say that?
I still say that the Crown Graphic (which I have) is the single best
cost-effective way for people to break into large-format (4x5)
photography, even at this late date. They're still available on eBay for
very reasonable prices, along with fantastic lenses. They may not be all
one would want in a view camera: limited movements, no rotating back,
etc. But compared to the Lexuses and Mercedes of LF cameras, relatively
speaking, they're a great deal. And they were extremely well-made.
The next step would be a Busch press camera, also American-made.
--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.
- harvested from Usenet
On 12/17/2009 6:42 AM J. Clarke spake thus:
> Leon wrote:
>
>> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> Your reefer may be in the same mode.
>>
>> Reefer? ;~)
>
> Navy talk for "refrigerator".
Also a railroading term.
--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.
- harvested from Usenet
On 12/17/2009 1:27 PM J. Clarke spake thus:
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> I still say that the Crown Graphic (which I have) is the single best
>> cost-effective way for people to break into large-format (4x5)
>> photography, even at this late date. They're still available on eBay
>> for very reasonable prices, along with fantastic lenses. They may not
>> be all one would want in a view camera: limited movements, no
>> rotating back, etc. But compared to the Lexuses and Mercedes of LF
>> cameras, relatively speaking, they're a great deal. And they were
>> extremely well-made.
>
> And after Graflex went under, Sakai bought the tooling and continued to make
> them for another decade or so in Japan as the Toyo Super Graphic.
And at some point in the US Singer (the sewing-machine company) bought
up Graflex and made them (or had them made) under their name. Not sure
how that worked out w/the Japanese co.
> I used to think that such things were quaint anachronisms until I found out
> what they could do. Never got into large format myself but one of these
> days . . .
They're out there just waiting for you. Film and stuff is still
available too.
--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.
- harvested from Usenet
On 12/17/2009 8:37 AM Robatoy spake thus:
> On Dec 17, 11:08 am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Smitty Two wrote:
>>
>>> The original VW bug was inexpensive to buy, and relatively inexpensive
>>> to repair. That is hardly the same as being reliable.
>>
>> You obviously never owned one ... the original was one of the most
>> reliable automobiles ever made and their longevity is ample proof of
>> that "reliability".
>
> 'Reliability' is often confused with 'how-long-can-a-car-run-without-
> proper-maintenance.'
> If you changed the oil and set the tappets on an old Bug, on a regular
> basis, those engines would run forever.
Exactamente.
I had an old bus ('65 w/a Super Beetle engine) that I drove from coast
to coast. It finally died, but nearly everything bad that happened to it
was my fault, even though I otherwise took very good care of it. (Like
the hole corroded through the floor of the engine compartment next to
the battery that allowed mud and wet sand to get sucked into the
generator driving through a rainstorm in New Mexico, killing it. No
mystery there.)
With old VWs, one had to be fairly religious about changing the oil,
adjusting the valves and setting the ignition timing every 3K miles or
so. And while my bus obviously couldn't charge uphill like a Hummer, it
was more than sufficiently powered for most situations. (Keep in mind
that the buses were geared lower than bugs, so one got a little more
oomph out of them at the expense of top-end speed.)
I rebuilt the engine myself, previously knowing nothing at all about
cars, using the "Complete Idiot" book as a guide. I ended up fancying up
the engine a bit; oversize (1650 cc) cylinders, plus an external oil
cooler which was a really good thing for driving through the desert.
(Plus scoops over the rear air intakes and a mechanical oil temperature
gauge.)
I can vouch that the old VWs were, in fact, reliable. (If taken care of.)
--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.
- harvested from Usenet
On 2009-12-17 08:45:29 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> said:
> Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers
> that don't give a shit and that finally led to teachers that could not
> find a job any where else. Long ago when teachers could step in as a
> parent and administer discipline he or she could actually teach. We
> have lost teachers that actually taught for baby sitters.
No, it's not poor teachers (though, like anything else, there are
exceptions to prove the rule). It's the abdication of parental
responsibility and expectations (though, like anything else, there are
exceptions to prove the rule).
A teacher should _teach_ by exciting the student about the subject, and
by encouraging the student to learn to think. A teacher should _never_
be expected to be a parent.
And if teachers have been made to be babysitters, it's by parents
who've blocked schools from requiring that students perform to their
abilities, display manners, and respect others. There are no longer any
consequences...
Sorta like the same I-me-mine shit being sold by lawyers' ads on TV.
"If you've been (or even think you've been) injured, we'll sue the
bastards and really screw 'em to the wall!*" Or by legislators who
think that every instance deserves another law. Or a medical community
that defines a new problem requiring (expensive) treatment and
(expensive) medication.**
What ever happened to treating others as you'd like to be treated?
Whatever happened (and this is the real crux of the matter) to
expecting the best of one's self?
Of course, this isn't limited to us home folks.
*And collect 30+ percent of your settlement for something that might
actually have been an injury.
**Listerine really didn't kill the germs as advertised, but by defining
bad breath as "halitosis," created a _medical condition_ to be treated
with nasty-tasting liquid.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> John Silber, former president of Boston College, was asked what one thing
>> could be done to improve the quality of education in America. He
>> answered: "Abolish colleges of education."
>>
>
> Sounds exactly like the typical "former" employee with an ax to grind
> would say.
>
> I'd say get rid of public education and all the bureaucracy that come
> with it. Privatize it.
>
I would agree with you if it was workable but, unfortunately, its not. There
would be many people that could not afford it thus not sending their kids to
school. This is for k true 12. If college is what you meant, I completely
agree with you. Yes, far fewer people would go to college but a college
degree would mean something. I attended two colleges. The first one was
private. It was quite good. No restrictions from government control,
instructors were hired for their knowledge and experience. When hiring, they
put no stock whatsoever in a teaching degree. All instructors had experience
in the fields that they were teaching,rather than just reading about it.
Students were there to learn, not just to spend time. This was maintained by
strict policies If you were a troublemaker or in any way interfering with
others abilities to get the education they were paying for, you would be
expelled, If you could not maintain a reasonable grade average, you would be
given the chance to either transfer to something you could handle or you
would be asked to leave. They would not tolerate an underachiever dragging
the rest of the students down. You were given every opportunity to excel. A
fair amount of their funding was in the form of donations from local
business that saw it as an investment in future employees. No donations were
excepted with conditions attached. Kept everyone honest. The second one was
a government funded local college that was considered one of the best in the
area. If that was the best, I would hate to see the worst. Very few of the
instructors were top rate. In one class, people would come to me instead of
the instructor as I new more about the subject than he did. Trouble makers
were tolerated and failing grades were upgraded to passing to ensure that
the student would continue to go there as their government funding was
attached to body count rather than academic achievement. There was, of
course, students that came from other government programs, such as
vocational rehabilitation, that were virtually granted a diploma.
On 12/16/2009 11:39 AM David Nebenzahl spake thus:
> This post is aimed at all you sinophobes out there.
>
> I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of
> shit: what do you expect? It's made in China!".
[snip own post]
Omigod, what have I done?
Do I get some kind of prize for such a long thread? A discount on a.h.r
(or wreck) merchandise specials? A special mention at next year's
Usenetties?
--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.
- harvested from Usenet
On 12/20/2009 5:37 PM Robatoy spake thus:
> On Dec 20, 6:34 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>>> Do I get some kind of prize for such a long thread? A discount on a.h.r
>>> (or wreck) merchandise specials? A special mention at next year's
>>> Usenetties?
>>
>> Your cabal dues will be increased 50% in 2010 for all the bytes used,
>> plus the appropriate carbon footprint tax ...
>
> I have not been around here for very long.... but long enough to know
> that there is no cabal.
Ah, but there is (and it's Top Sekrit).
Damn! I knew there'd be consequences ...
--
I am a Canadian who was born and raised in The Netherlands. I live on
Planet Earth on a spot of land called Canada. We have noisy neighbours.
- harvested from Usenet
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:39:07 -0800, David Nebenzahl
<[email protected]> wrote:
>This post is aimed at all you sinophobes out there.
>
>I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of
>shit: what do you expect? It's made in China!".
>
>Now it is true that a lot of crap--boatloads of it, literally--does come
>from that great country. We've all seen it, used it, chucked it out.
>
>But bear in mind the historical precedent: some of you are probably old
>enough to remember the similar tarring of anything that had the label
>"Made in Japan" on it. Anything Japanese was considered worthless.
>Compare to today.
>
>I'm finding more and more that "Made in China" really doesn't mean
>anything about the quality of an item. Clearly, Chinese workers, as
>underpaid as they may be, are quite capable of making anything as well
>as anyone else in any other part of the world.
>
>Part of the problem is that we're placing blame in the wrong place. The
>*real* problem seems to be "Made in [anyplace] but designed in the U.S.
>[or some other place]". A lot, if not most, of what I would call
>"Chinese junk" is actually made as well as the design would allow for,
>including the materials used and the amount of labor committed to
>finishing the item. So in many cases Chinese factories are making
>faithful copies of a shitty design that may well have come from some
>designer's computah right here in The Greatest Industrial Power on Earth
>(the US of A).
>
>I predict the Chinese are following the same arc that the Japanese did
>after WWII, with variations, of course; there's no Marshall Plan, and
>the countries are vastly different. Nonetheless, I can forsee the day
>when "Made in China" is no longer a call for derision.
>
>By way of showing just how wrong people can be when predicting who's
>winning the industrial game, here's a hilariously and astoundingly wrong
>prediction about the Japanese and American photographic industries from
>1946: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-136.html
I think you are 100% correct. I was fortunate to be able to visit
China for a couple weeks with Chinese engineers and grad students as
hosts. They are VERY interested in doing things right and are very
proud of their country. They have a ways to go but it won't take them
long. We visited a road construction site where most of the heavy
equipment operators were hardly out of their teens. They were putting
in the curbing just prior to paving with asphalt. They had modern
survey instruments to maintain line and grade and were installing
large, but hand handlable and hand installed individual granite curb
stones that formed the gutter. The gutter line was perfect as was the
pavement when they were done. They also don't waste a lot of time and
effort on "environmental and archeological" salvage issues like we do
here. They just dig it up and rebury it. We could see the remains
of at least two prior iterations of roads buried several feet under
the current construction level. The US is almost assuredly on a long,
slow (best case) downhill slide due to over-regulation and
nannystateism.
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:44:15 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Jules" wrote:
>
>> My
>> fridge/freezer is over 30 years old and still going - but I don't
>> think I
>> could walk into any modern appliance store and say "sell me a fridge
>> that'll still be going in 2039".
>
>----------------------------------
>It may still be operating, but at what efficiency?
>
>There were some 1,000 watt mercury lamps on life test.
>
>The rated life of the lamp was 20,000 hours.
>
>Lamp was still operating after 20+ years of 24/7 service; however, the
>light output was less than 5% of initial output.
>
>Your reefer may be in the same mode.
>
>Lew
>
>
The best available freezers 30 years ago were within percentages of
the efficiency of the run-of-the-mill freezer available toda, and the
difference from the poorest to the best today is something like 7%.
Thirty years ago, foam insulation was already becoming standard on the
premium units.
The vast majority of today's PREMIUM units will be in the scrapyard in
20 years or less. Many don't last more than 10 years. The cheap stuff
is even worse. They may still cool, but the shelves are falling out
and the doorseals are leaking, and they piddle on the floor like a 6
week old puppy.
On Dec 17, 9:06=A0am, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2009-12-17, Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Your reefer may be in the same mode.
>
> But, is paying $800 for a more efficient ....read energy conserving,
> not colder.... gonna save you any money? =A0Not likely before it dies
> and you need to spend another $800 another new one. =A0
>
> nb
It will when you end up paying the true cost of the energy used.
TMT
David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 12/16/2009 3:03 PM Percival P. Cassidy spake thus:
>> IIRC. I'm not sure that Kodak was considered a serious
>> photographer's camera.
>
> Kodak did make some cameras used by serious photogs, even after the
> Japanese kicked our asses in that arena, but they were mostly obscure
> models used by specialists. Like their view (studio) cameras and
> lenses made for aerial photography, to name a couple. Their one
> top-of-the-line 35mm camera (the Ektra) was already out of production
> by that time.
The Medalist was "pro" too.
___________
> After that, about the best they could come up with were consumer-level
> cameras, like the Instamatic, which they did sell by the millions. But
> all high-quality stuff was, as you point out, either German (Leica,
> Voigtlander), Swedish (Hassy), or, mostly, Japanese (lessee: Nikon,
> Canon, Ricoh, Minolta, Miranda, Yashica, Olympus, Bronica, Fuji,
> etc., etc.
You forgot Asahi. The Pentax was/is under rated.
____________
> The single exception I can think of is the Graflex press cameras
> (Crown and Speed Graphics), made here in the US and used around the
> world up through the 1970s.
Thank heavens they expired :)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
On 12/16/2009 01:39 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
> I'm finding more and more that "Made in China" really doesn't mean
> anything about the quality of an item. Clearly, Chinese workers, as
> underpaid as they may be, are quite capable of making anything as well
> as anyone else in any other part of the world.
True.
However, going by various comments written by people in the industry,
there also seems to be a cultural impetus to try and push the lower
boundaries of the quality standards. So if a Chinese factory contracts
for a given level of quality there is a tendency for that level to drop
over time unless the company that hired them keeps on top of things.
I suspect this holds true to a certain extent in many places, but he
impression that I have gotten (from various places) is that this is
worse when dealing with Chinese manufacturers.
Chris
On Dec 17, 4:42=A0pm, The Daring Dufas <[email protected]>
wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:57:35 -0800, Smitty Two
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> In article <[email protected]>,
> >> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>> Jules wrote:
>
> >>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There=
are
> >>>> talented folk there, same as anywhere else
> >>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
> >>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
> >>> spaceships.
> >> The Europeans have yet to make a reliable car.
>
> > Au Contraire - they make VERY reliable cars. You can rely on them to
> > make trouble when they are most needed.
>
> > That said, one of the least troublesome cars I ever owned - and the
> > price was definitely right on top of it all, was a 1972 Vauxhaul Viva
> > HC - sold in Canada as the Pontiac Firenza. I bought it for $250 in
> > 1979 when it was traded for a new Lada
> > It took the typical British "fondling it's nuts" on a semi-regular
> > basis, but the only breakdown I suffered with it was when the timing
> > belt broke heading south out of Sydney Nova Scotia - fixed at the side
> > of the road - and the regulator died the next day just North of
> > Halifax.
>
> Did it have Lucas electrics?
>
> TDD
Lucas electrics (as in refrigerators) are the reason the British drink
warm beer.
On Dec 16, 1:39=A0pm, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]> wrote:
> This post is aimed at all you sinophobes out there.
>
> I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of
> shit: what do you expect? It's made in China!".
>
Apparently some folks are having trouble with the concept of the
current global economy; and the history of our own manufacturing
problems.
Today, there are relatively few items truly manufactured in USA,
China, Japan, Mexico or anywhere. To slam a product just because it
is made in Taiwan or China doesn't make sense anymore especially when
you look at metal and woodworking tools sold by companies like
Grizzly. Many of the parts and castings in "old American" products
like Powermatic now come from the east. Much of the airframe and
wiring in venerable aircraft like the Beech Bonanza and King Air are
manufactured in Mexico and assembled in Kansas; avionics guts come
from the east. Most electronic components used in fine old American
TVs and audio components come from China, Japan or Korea.
On the other side, a complete lapse in U.S. quality control, during
the 1970's, allowed the Japanese to to run completely over the US auto
industry. But now look at Toyota. They are building cars, to high
standards, at several U.S. facilities. This is probably good because
the high cost of maintaining union demands has all but shut down
Detroit and other auto manufacturing centers. This is doubly tragic
because Detroit was finally starting to build some quality cars again.
The world is changing and made in ("anywhere") is a thing of the
past. We have seen a strong trend toward survival of the fittest
during the past year and those who can produce quality at a reasonable
cost will probably win (or be taken over by government).
My job is to take care of my business by buying the best I can with
what I have. If I can buy the same quality and function for 20-40%
less the decision is easy.
RonB
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:06:44 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Dec 19, 8:28Â pm, The Daring Dufas <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>> Zootal wrote:
>> > "Nate Nagel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>> >>> Smitty Two wrote:
>> >>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> >>>> Â Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>> Jules wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There
>> >>>>>> are
>> >>>>>> talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>> >>>>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>> >>>>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>> >>>>> spaceships.
>> >>>> The Europeans have yet to make a reliable car.
>> >>> Lookie what I just tripped over. A 4 wheeled self propelled British
>> >>> bonfire. Â *snicker*
>>
>> >>>http://tinyurl.com/y8jrrhf
>>
>> >>> TDD
>> >> Odd then that I've had German cars as my daily drivers from roughly 1998
>> >> up until four years ago (when I got a company car.) Â I miss my cheap
>> >> German beaters, much higher quality and fewer annoyances than the brand
>> >> new American cars I've been driving since.
>>
>> >> Still have the last of the beaters, a Porsche 944. Â If you told me I had
>> >> to be halfway across the country as soon as possible, I'd prefer to drive
>> >> that over the two year old Impala that shares driveway space with it.
>> >> (today, that would be an even easier choice as I have snow tires on the
>> >> Porsche but crappy all-seasons on the Impala)
>>
>> >> nate
>>
>> > I used to work for a Peugeot dealer many years ago. Peugeots were not too
>> > bad, for European made cars. They actually had quite a few American parts in
>> > them. The power steering pumps were Saginaws, right out of Michigan. We ship
>> > them to France, the French paint Peugeot on them and they then cost three
>> > times as much. Go figure.Their diesel engines will self-destruct if you over
>> > heat them even once, but they will last a long time otherwise. Their gas
>> > engine cars are pigs - absolute pigs. The gas powered 604 was a disastor.
>> > Today they make the Ion. Can't find a parking spot? No problem, pick the car
>> > up, fold it a few times and stick it in your pocket. Don't ever leave it
>> > parked on a hill because it will start rolling. Not rolling on the wheels,
>> > but rolling like a ball :)
>>
>> > My all time favorite was the Citroen. Back in the 60s they were not allowed
>> > on base because they were such unsafe pieces of sh*t.
>>
>> I seem to recall something about Rolls Royce using GM automatic
>> transmissions.
>>
>> TDD
>
>Yup. Turbos
>http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o290/Robatoy/oOl93.jpg
When RR first started using the Hydramatic they thought they needed
to "clean it up a bit" so they did some modifications to bring it up
to RR standasrds - and it wouldn't shift worth squat. Apparently they
made some parts TOO SMOOTH. From then on they just used what "the
general" supplied - just like it went into a Chevy.
notbob wrote:
> You can resort to name calling or you can discuss in a rational
> discourse. The former is grounds for dismissal
"....as opposed to baseless dogma spewed by narrow minded twits who
refuse to see beyond personal prejudices."
And example of "rational discourse" by you, eh?
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mine were electronic (they went electronic after 1974). I
> liked being able to set timing on the 225 CID with a 7/16
> socket on the end of an extension, and a timing light. The
> 318 was a pain, I may still have my 12 point distributor
> wrench. 9/16 was it?
>
> The one slant six I had, I screwed up and got the wrong
> plugs, one time. I had to troubleshoot and replace two
> plugs. Under a bridge, in Wyoming, with about 40 or 50 MPH
> wind from the west.
>
> I remember my Mopars being very moisture sensetive. Even
> knowing the module ground and all, somtimes they just didn't
> want to start if there was some humidity around. Or rain the
> day before.
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
>
> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
> I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318.
> Did most of my
> own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like
> was setting the
> points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm)
> and trying to
> start either if a neighborhood dog peed within a block or so
> while the
> engine was turning over ...
>
>
>Wrong site Cris This is a woodworkers site. WW
On Dec 16, 7:26=A0pm, Dave Balderstone
<dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, J. Clarke
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > CW wrote:
> > > "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > >news:[email protected]...
> > >> HeyBub wrote:
> > >>> Swingman wrote:
> > >>>> Jules wrote:
>
> > >>>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less.
> > >>>>> There are talented folk there, same as anywhere else
> > >>>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
> > >>>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers,
> > >>>> to spaceships.
>
> > >>> The Europeans built a spaceship? I think Flash Gordon was an
> > >>> American...
>
> > >>> Last I heard, the Europeans were trying to put up their own GPS
> > >>> satellite system - for reasons passing understanding.
>
> > >> Tsk, tsk ... you get into space on "rockets", Bubba ... Wernher Von
> > >> Braun
>
> > > Yes, the success of the American space program was due to imports.
> > > They imported Germany's best scientists.
>
> > So what percentage of the engineers working on Apollo were German?
>
> > Hint--go to Youtube and search on "Disney Moon" and you'll find that th=
e
> > concept that Von Braun was pushing pre-Apollo was considerably differen=
t
> > from what actually flew (and before you make some ignorant sneering rem=
ark
> > about Disney, do the search and watch the episode).
>
> A surprising number of the best NASA scientists and engineers came from
> Canada after the Avro Arrow project was canceled by the Diefenbaker
> Conservative government.
>
> <http://www.avroarrow.org/AvroArrow/Avroengineers.html>
Not to discount the contribution of these aforementioned Canadian
engineers but realistically how many were enticed to come to the US
AND how many US scientists and engineers were working at NASA at the
time? (also consider the number of S & E's working for contractors as
well)
Did these Canadian engineers represent 1%? 5% 10% 25% ?
cheers
Bob
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:02:11 -0500, dgk <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:50:17 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Doug Miller wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>, "J. Clarke"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> As for European engineering in general, anybody who thinks that it's
>>>> all high quality hasn't fettled a brand new British-made Stanley
>>>> shoulder plane.
>>>
>>> Or owned a Fiat...
>>
>>I'm the original owner of my 1973 Fiat 124 Spyder. It was my only car until
>>recently. It has been driven down steam beds in Mexico, over mountains,
>>across deserts, etc. It still runs and looks great. Biggest problem I've
>>had with it is "mechanics" screwing up stuff; surprising since it is so
>>mechanically simple but they manage.
>
>Many years ago I had a Fiat 124 Spyder. I called it the Fiat 124
>Lemon. I did buy it used so perhaps it was just maintained terribly,
>but almost every other week something went wrong. The alternator died,
>the string operating the clutch broke, the transmission developed
>problems, and just endless crap.
>
>I guess it just depends on when it got put together.
I had a '75 Fiat 128 L Sport Coupe. Got it for nothing in 1978 after
it sat at a dealership for 2 years to have the engine replaced under
warranty, and the dealer went broke. The guy gave it to me for
installing the brand new- never run engine in his X19.
I put an aircraft generator and 8 golfcart batteries in it and it was
more reliable than any other 128 I ran across - and even it was no
heck.
According to the book, "Small Wonder," the beetle was designed by
Dr. Porsche and the basic design was so good that only refinements
were made over its long manufacturing run. IMHO, if there's any
secret to VW's beetle, it was that they got lots and lots of
feedback from owners bringing the car in with the little glitches.
If there was consistency to a glitch, like a door handle that kept
breaking, VW would design a new and improved one and start using
them. The product was continually refined and improved, within
the limitations of the basic design or concept.
I had an '71 Super Beetle and felt it was an excellent car if you
overlooked the lack of heat in IN/MI winters. <grin>
--
Nonny
ELOQUIDIOT (n) A highly educated, sophisticated,
and articulate person who has absolutely no clue
concerning what they are talking about.
The person is typically a media commentator or politician.
notbob wrote:
> On 2009-12-16, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>> engineering for built-in quality.....
>
> What nonsense. I've had plenty of Euro made items that were junk,
> including German made.
What nonsense? ... you can't be that dense, eh? Shit happens in every
country, culture, civilization - past, present, and future.
> Italy makes enough crap to drag the whole
> continent's curve below avg! ;)
Then there's my handmade, Omer pin nailer, one of the best engineered
nail guns that money can buy, made in Italy.
Once again, there is NOTHING like it, and it is "European engineered".
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
notbob wrote:
> On 2009-12-18, Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Still gets 25 MPG.
>
> My old '62 Dodge Lancer with slant six and AT got 22mph on highway.
>
As long as we're bragging, my 1970 Ford Custom got 9mph.
'Course it had a police interceptor engine, a calibrated speedometer up to
140, an 8-quart crankcase, and, believe it or not, a DELCO alternator.
On 2009-12-17, Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
> Reliability was NOT my experience with a diesel Rabbit.
They had great seat, though! ;)
nb
On Dec 17, 2:25=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > J. Clarke wrote:
>
> > John Silber, former president of Boston College, was asked what one thi=
ng
> > could be done to improve the quality of education in America. He answer=
ed:
> > "Abolish colleges of education."
>
> Sounds exactly like the typical "former" employee with an ax to grind wou=
ld
> say.
>
> I'd say get rid of public education and all the =A0bureaucracy that come =
with
> it. =A0Privatize it.
And fine the parents for Johnny's poor performance when it occurs.
TMT
On Dec 17, 11:08=A0am, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Smitty Two wrote:
> > The original VW bug was inexpensive to buy, and relatively inexpensive
> > to repair. That is hardly the same as being reliable.
>
> You obviously never owned one ... the original was one of the most
> reliable automobiles ever made and their longevity is ample proof of
> that "reliability".
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 10/22/08
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
'Reliability' is often confused with 'how-long-can-a-car-run-without-
proper-maintenance.'
If you changed the oil and set the tappets on an old Bug, on a regular
basis, those engines would run forever.
VW Diesels are as inconsistent as the fuel you feed them.
On Dec 17, 7:45=A0am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient automobiles kn=
own
> > to mankind, and to this day the best selling car in history, hit the
> > ground running =A0... the "Volkswagen".
>
> I will have to disagree with you there. =A0Kim and I bought a new 99 Jett=
a, it
> left her stranded on the freeway 3 times under warranty the first 18 mont=
hs,
> and a dead battery replaced under warranty. =A0That was the Mexico built
> vehicle. =A0Towed into the dealership and "no problem found " on the 3 rd=
time
> we immediately traded for a German built 2000 Passat. =A0We almost kept i=
t 4
> years. =A0While we had it, it left Kim stranded 2 times, once was a fault=
y
> starter relay, the second time another dead battery replaced by me. =A0Th=
en
> there were numerous emissions problems, the need to replace both outer ti=
e
> rod ends at 30K, and the heater core at 43K. =A0The transmission was show=
ing
> signs of failure. Traded for the 04 Accord at 47K. =A0 Both vehicles were
> serviced more often than recommended by the dealer. =A0The 99 Jetta and 2=
000
> Passat were serviced/oil changed at 3K =A0VW recommended every 10K. =A0Af=
ter
> trading the Passat we got a factory letter rewording service intervals fo=
r
> the turbo, every 3K and with synthetic oil. =A0I saw that coming.
>
> I bought the VW's on their past reputation.
>
> Maybe my first VW's were a fluke but I'll probably never buy another.
>
>
>
> > Sheessh, it's sad, this total failure of the educational system and the
> > resultant ignorance!
>
> Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers that
> don't give a shit and that finally led to teachers that could not find a =
job
> any where else. =A0 Long ago when teachers could step in as a parent and
> administer discipline he or she could actually teach. =A0We have lost tea=
chers
> that actually taught for baby sitters.
The true failure are the parents who do not support the teacher.
When there is no value placed on education at home, there will be no
learning at school.
TMT
"LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Having owned four Chryslers (three with V8-318, and one with
>> slant 6-215 CED engine) I nominate them for the POS
>> category, also.
>
> I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318. Did most of my
> own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like was setting
> the points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm) and trying
> to start either if a neighborhood dog peed within a block or so while the
> engine was turning over ...
They made a header for the slant 6??
Here hold my beer and watch this!
My buddy was given his mother's Beige 4 door 65 Dodge Coronet. Slant 6,
auto trans. That thing was full race and looked the part. OR NOT!.
One cold night we were out kinda late in Corpus Christi sipping on a couple
of large screw top bottles of beer. Brand, did not matter. We were going
down the freeway with darn little traffic so we are going about 70.
My buddy looked over at me and said, watch this. He reached up grabbed the
shift lever, and yanked it down all the way into low. The engine roared and
we suddenly slowed down.
On Dec 17, 11:46=A0am, "Percival P. Cassidy" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Smitty Two wrote:
> > I did own an Audi once. Worst car I've ever owned in terms of
> > reliability. Made by VW. I had a g.f. years ago who had a Karmann Ghia,
> > and it was a piece of junk, too. Then I had a g.f. with a Jetta, also
> > crap. Have a friend who bought one of those new VW bugs a few years ago
> > and it began to disintegrate at about 80k. Have a friend who owned an
> > original bug for 25 years, and loved it, but it was in the shop every
> > 3-4 months. (He didn't have a frame of reference to see that as an
> > issue.)
>
> Two friends have/had between them three fairly recent Audis. The
> transmission in one just "blew up."
The wife of a customer of mine blew a transmission out of an Acura the
other day. That sometimes happens with performance vehicles. A distant
relative took the clutch out of a Trabant. Yup.. shit happens.
>A year or two back on "Car Talk"
> somebody called to report that his Audi (either A4 or A6; I no longer
> remember which) was burning a quart of oil every 1000 miles and the
> dealer said not to worry about it.
I find that 'caller' highly suspect and the response not indicative of
an Audi dealer. Not that you can't lose a ring, or lube-seal on a
turbo and burn a whack of oil in hurry, but the dealer response? Naaa,
there more to that story.
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:31:12 -0600, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"David Nebenzahl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On 12/17/2009 6:42 AM J. Clarke spake thus:
>>
>>> Leon wrote:
>> >
>>>> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>
>>>>> Your reefer may be in the same mode.
>>>>
>>>> Reefer? ;~)
>>>
>>> Navy talk for "refrigerator".
>>
>> Also a railroading term.
Also trucking (same same).
>Also a Dope term.....
Definitely not as cold.
Swingman wrote:
> Jules wrote:
>
>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There
>> are talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>
> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
> spaceships.
The Europeans built a spaceship? I think Flash Gordon was an American...
Last I heard, the Europeans were trying to put up their own GPS satellite
system - for reasons passing understanding.
On 2009-12-17, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Apparently over your head also ...
....as is the overwhelming contradictory feedback in this thread to
your premise that vee-dubs are reliable.
I'll concede that VW has a lot of great things going for it. I'd even
consider buying one, again. I'd like to try the later model turbo
diesels if diesel fuel in the US would stabalize. But, your zealotry
for all things Euro is just plain wrong and does not reflect my real
world experiences with all brands, worldwide. VW is no more reliable
than MANY other brands I've owned and, in fact, doesn't even rate in the
top five.
You can resort to name calling or you can discuss in a rational
discourse. The former is grounds for dismissal
nb
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>>
>> Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers
>> that don't give a shit and that finally led to teachers that could
>> not find a job any where else. Long ago when teachers could step in
>> as a parent and administer discipline he or she could actually teach.
>> We have lost teachers that actually taught for baby sitters.
>
> Uh, you might want to actually get drunk with a few teachers sometime
> before
> you blame them. They have to do what they can with what they've got and
> what they've got these days isn't much (and I'm not talking about the
> kids,
> I'm talking about the rules they are required to work under). Wanna fix
> education, first shoot all the professors of education and all the school
> boards.
>
It may differ with location but for the most part the teachers you are
describing are what we had 20 years ago, but not in Houston today. Today
they are asking "how to do" from the kids.
I know it is not their fault, the teachers, for the most part the good ones
are long since gone.
And they are gone because they no longer want to be baby sitters instead of
maintaining discipline and actually teaching. Teaching should also be
considered a part of how a child is taught to act and to respect others.
That does not happen any more.
While I agree the restrictions/cigarettes was the root of the problem. That
problem has decayed enough that we now can only get baby sitters/the cancer,
to hold positions for any length of time. Any decent new teacher typically
becomes a bad one or leaves the system. The problem is through out the
whole education system now.
The HS my son went to was an exception to the norm, that school had "good"
teachers and there was not a discipline problem. That public HS was by
invitation only. The only requirement to be invited to attend that school
was that you needed to have a "Satisfactory" average, for conduct, that's
it. If a student became a discipline problem they were warned once and the
second time transferred to one of the other HS's in the district.
When my son began at that HS the school had grades 9-12. In all four grade
levels there were only 650 students. I would estimate that in the other 3
HS's that there were in excess of 10K and that is a very conservative
estimate. Out of all of those students approximately 150 were invited each
year to attend Kerr HS.
Kerr HS taught the kids how to prepare for college every day. There was no
week off to study for the TAAS test, which is a Texas thing to judge how the
students are coming along for their grade level. His middle school took a
week every year to review for that test. IIRC the year my son graduated 95%
of the students had been accepted to a college. IIRC 87% of those students
had been awarded scholarships of $15K or more.
I'm certain that the education that my son received at Kerr HS played a very
major roll in him transitioning so smoothly into college. I recall the
10th graders mentoring the incoming 9th graders and most of them were high
achievers. Life transitioning into Kerr HS was a bigger challenge for my
son than going from that HS into college. I am also certain that Kerr HS
played a major part in my son getting into the Honors College his first year
at the university and graduating with a 4 year average GPA of 3.87.
notbob wrote:
> On 2009-12-17, J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> THE Volkswagen, the Type I, aka the Beetle, aka the Porsche Type 60, was in
>> continuous production for over 60 years with more than 20 million built,
>> both the longest and largest production runs in automotive history.
>
> They hadda keep replacing them.
Give up, nutbob ... you're in over your head.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
notbob wrote:
> On 2009-12-17, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient automobiles
>> known to mankind, and to this day the best selling car in history, hit
>> the ground running ... the "Volkswagen".
>
> Complete and total bullshit! As a mechanic who has owned more than
> one VW, don't even bother with trying to convince me of VW's
> reliability. A good practical design (bug) yes. Reliable? Please.
> My first bug, the engine trashed itself at a mere 45mph. The brakes
> locked up by themselves.
Sounds more like the guy who sold it to you saw a chump coming and you
simply proved he was right.
> Not as sad as your total failure at exercising common sense.
Moi? ...lol. Don't look now, nutbob, but your little personal anecdote
above tells that tale about you.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318. Did most of
>>> my own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like was
>>> setting the points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm)
>>> and trying to start either if a neighborhood dog peed within a block or
>>> so while the engine was turning over ...
>>
>>
>> They made a header for the slant 6??
>
> Yes, but
>
> My bad. Head was thinking exhaust manifold and fingers were busy thinking
> about after market parts.
Was your exhaust manifold cracked. IIRC that was a problem with that
engine. When cold the engine exhaust manifold was kinda noisy and quietened
up when it got hot.
>
>>
>> Here hold my beer and watch this!
>>
>> My buddy was given his mother's Beige 4 door 65 Dodge Coronet. Slant 6,
>> auto trans. That thing was full race and looked the part. OR NOT!.
>> One cold night we were out kinda late in Corpus Christi sipping on a
>> couple of large screw top bottles of beer. Brand, did not matter.
>
> If it was Lone Star ...
I believe you are right.... MY BIL was the VP of the local Lone Star
distributorship.
>
>> We were going down the freeway with darn little traffic so we are going
>> about 70.
>>
>> My buddy looked over at me and said, watch this. He reached up grabbed
>> the shift lever, and yanked it down all the way into low. The engine
>> roared and we suddenly slowed down.
>
> And?
That's it the engine roared and we slowed down. That was an industrial
engine used on other applications other than automitive and they could be
abused. Back then was also when the Chrysler products had bullet proof
transmissions also. Remember the commericals where the guy floors the
accelerator pedal and does what my froend did except he goes from D to R and
back to D. Close up of the smokin rear tire shows it reversing dirrections
a couple of times.
That car was our "tank" It saw a lot of action in local farmers corn
fields.
"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
> John Silber, former president of Boston College, was asked what one thing
> could be done to improve the quality of education in America. He answered:
> "Abolish colleges of education."
>
Sounds exactly like the typical "former" employee with an ax to grind would
say.
I'd say get rid of public education and all the bureaucracy that come with
it. Privatize it.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Swingman" wrote:
>
>> Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient automobiles
>> known to mankind, and to this day the best selling car in history, hit
>> the ground running ... the "Volkswagen".
>
> How many did you own?
2, too many.
> Reliability was NOT my experience with a diesel Rabbit.
Same with the Jetta and the Passat, BIL was not happy with his Passat
either, trans problems.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> HeyBub wrote:
>> Swingman wrote:
>>> Jules wrote:
>>>
>>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There
>>>> are talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>>> spaceships.
>>
>> The Europeans built a spaceship? I think Flash Gordon was an American...
>>
>> Last I heard, the Europeans were trying to put up their own GPS satellite
>> system - for reasons passing understanding.
>
> Tsk, tsk ... you get into space on "rockets", Bubba ... Wernher Von Braun
>
Yes, the success of the American space program was due to imports. They
imported Germany's best scientists.
Smitty Two wrote:
> The original VW bug was inexpensive to buy, and relatively inexpensive
> to repair. That is hardly the same as being reliable.
You obviously never owned one ... the original was one of the most
reliable automobiles ever made and their longevity is ample proof of
that "reliability".
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Smitty Two wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> You folks who are going on about "Rabbits" and "Jettas" and suchlike are
>> missing the point.
>>
>> THE Volkswagen, the Type I, aka the Beetle, aka the Porsche Type 60, was in
>> continuous production for over 60 years with more than 20 million built,
>> both the longest and largest production runs in automotive history.
>
> Completely irrelevant to the issue of reliability.
Did you not just contradict yourself with your story about friends
"ancient" VW?
Have YOU ever owned one?
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:45:01 -0600, The Daring Dufas
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 23:53:28 -0600, The Daring Dufas
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:46:02 -0800, "LDosser" <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>, "LDosser"
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318. Did most of my
>>>>>>> own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like was setting
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm)
>>>>>> That'd be a pretty neat trick, considering that the distributor on a
>>>>>> slant-six
>>>>>> is half-way down the block on the passenger side, and the exhaust manifold
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> all the way at the top of the engine on the driver's side. You'd think
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> someone who'd done all that work on a slant-six would know where the
>>>>>> distributor is.
>>>>> Long arms. They say memory is the first to go ... Anyone know what the hell
>>>>> I was burning myself on?
>>>> The edge of the rocker cover and the side of the cyl head. Or the oil
>>>> filter.
>>>>
>>>> I ALWAYS pulled the distributor to do points on Slant Sixes. ALWAYS
>>>> set to #1 TDC first too. And I did a LOT of them.
>>>>
>>>> My 170 always had the points set on a distributor machine to be sure
>>>> there was no bounce or float at 6500 RPM - always used the Blue Streak
>>>> High Performance points - the only kind that wouldn't either bounce,
>>>> float, or break the spring. (206 RWHP through the push-button
>>>> automatic at 6000 RPM ( 60+ in first, 90+ in second, and bury the
>>>> speedo in third)
>>>> It's the only car I've ever owned that I could redline in top gear.
>>> I built a 170 slant six that came out of a 64 Valiant and dropped it in
>>> a 65 Dart. I installed a 3/4 race cam and found the biggest one barrel
>>> Holly carburetor I could find and that car would do 60 in first and 100
>>> in second by holding the shifter in gear. It blew the stock muffler off
>>> so I installed one of those Thrush mufflers. I replaced the little 13"
>>> wheels with a set of 14 inchers and found a set of Firestone Grand Prix
>>> radial tires and a set of heavy duty shocks. I had to beat the lip of
>>> the front fenders out a little so the tires wouldn't rub. The car would
>>> take a corner so hard that it snapped a front hub out of a brake drum.
>>> At a wrecking yard, I found these huge finned drums and spindles on a
>>> V8 Dart and installed those which solved the breakage and braking
>>> problem. The car had a single master cylinder, ditched that and got
>>> a dual master cylinder from a van. What I loved about my Mopars is that
>>> I could get parts from different models and mix and match. It was a lot
>>> of fun. It's been about four decades since I had that six cylinder
>>> terror but I miss it more than any of them.
>>>
>>> TDD
>> Mine was in a '63 Valiant V100 Custom 4 door sedan. The rear springs
>> were sagged so I lowered the front torsion bars to level it and put in
>> the optional heavy duty shocks from the V* Formula S Cuda. Cornered
>> like it was on rails. Didn't matter what I put on it for exhaust,
>> within a week it sounded loud again - My parents could always hear me
>> coming down the hill into town unless I put it in neutral and let it
>> coast. Bottom end accelleration was pretty slow, but from 30 MPH
>> (about 3500RPM) up it was hard to catch!!! C70 13 tires handled the
>> road reasonably well - with studded snows in the winter.
>>
>> Kid brother did up a 225 in a 65, with 2 barrel and split exhaust and
>> a fancy cam, 40 thou over, and it would burn rubber on takeoff, but
>> was about 20% slower at the top end. 104MPH was wound tight (about
>> 5000 RPM)
>
>That 170 was a short stroke screamer, it would turn high RPMs all day
>long and refused to die.
>
>TDD
The only times my 170 ran under 6 grand was on the way up!!!
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:36:45 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> Some of the best cars I ever owned were early Mopars. I've owned 53,
>> 57, 63, 69, 74, 76, 85, 88, and now a 2002.
>
>A real glutton for punishment I see.
>
>Lew
>
You want to know what else fit in between them?
Some of them WERE punishment!!!
1928 Chevy, 1935 Chevy, 1938 Hudson Terraplane, 1961 Mini, 1949 VW
Bug, 1972 Vauxhaul HC (Firenza) (AKA Magnum), 1967 Peugeot204, 1972
Renault 12 (rallye car), 1975 Pacer, 1965 Rambler Classic, 1972
Ambassador, ?? VW Rabbit, 1995 Pontiac TransSport, 1967 Chevy Nova,
1972 Dodge Colt,(Mitsubishi Gallant), 1982 Corolla wagon, 1981 Tercel,
1996 Mystique, 1989 and 1990 Aerostars plus a few motorcycles - not
counting the company cars I've driven.
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 08:46:46 -0500, Nate Nagel <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> "ktos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> My next door neighbor has 2 Chryslers. Both cars sound like bombs
>>> exploding when they start their cars.
>>
>>
>> I can still remember back in the 50's hearing our neighbor start his '56
>> Dodge. It was a godawful sound very fitting for such an ugly car. Remember
>> the three-tone paint jobs available back then? Most every maker had
>> two-tone, but Dodge had to top them with three.
>>
>> Over the past 48 years, I've owned many different brands of car, but never
>> anything from Chrysler. Nor will I ever. I still don't like their style.
>
>Were they using gear reduction starters that early?
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_2OBC2d93g
>
>that's a GOOD sound!
>
>nate
Nope. Gear reduction starters came on the scene in the late sixties -
the "high park hummingbird"
You wanted something REALLY awfull sounding at startup, you wanted a
37 or 38 Terraplane.
Open bell housing, hunting gear set, and hydraulic lifters on a
flathead six. The starter howled like a banshee - you could hear it a
mile away on a cold still morning, and the lifters clattered for about
15 seconds on just about every start.
[email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 08:38:28 -0500, Nate Nagel <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Some of the best cars I ever owned were early Mopars. I've owned 53,
>>>> 57, 63, 69, 74, 76, 85, 88, and now a 2002.
>>> A real glutton for punishment I see.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>>
>> Meh? My ideal driveway for "drive it forever" cars would be filled with
>> 50's Studebakers, 60's MoPars, and 80's VWs.
>>
>> Sadly, IMHO cars hve gone downhill since the 80's in terms of durability
>> and user serviceability.
>>
>> nate
>
> Definitely downhill on serviceability, but thankfully they require a
> lot less.
> As far as durability? Yes, the old ones took more punishment - but
> with minimal care, the new ones will outlast the old ones. No carbs to
> screw up (or screw around with) No points to wear ot burn, stainless
> exhausts and no phosphourous in the gas means mufflers and pipes often
> last the life of the car - and rack and pinion steering means no
> sloppy worn out steering boxes, idler arms, and pitman arms.
>
> But yes, a Stude Golden Hawk, a '55 Chrysler 300, an early Paxon
> Avanti, a 1953 or 54 Coronet Sierra and a matching Coronet Coupe, a
> 1966 Plymouth GTX, a '64 Fury convertible, a 69 SC Rambler,and a 68
> AMX would all be in "the stable" for me. Oh - and a '53 starliner
> coupe.
> With perhaps a 55-56 T-Bird and a GT350 Shelby, and possibly a 59-61
> Vette.
>
Heh, my Studebaker has a full stainless exhaust from Silvertone and the
distributor has been retrofitted with a Chrysler ignition pickup (used a
'63-64 style Prestolite) also just picked up a freshly rebuilt steering
box (the big, ugly Saginaw power thing - have pretty much given up
trying to find a good manual box) for $300 a couple weeks ago :)
Now I just need to finish the darn thing, but I'm guessing that 245/60s
and 12" of snow (and falling) don't mix well :(
If you're gonna get a t-bird, get a '57 with the whirly thing, and the
3-speed stick. I'm definitely a Paxton fan :)
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
krw wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:35:09 -0600, The Daring Dufas
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Nate Nagel wrote:
>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> "ktos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> My next door neighbor has 2 Chryslers. Both cars sound like bombs
>>>>> exploding when they start their cars.
>>>>
>>>> I can still remember back in the 50's hearing our neighbor start his
>>>> '56 Dodge. It was a godawful sound very fitting for such an ugly car.
>>>> Remember the three-tone paint jobs available back then? Most every
>>>> maker had two-tone, but Dodge had to top them with three.
>>>>
>>>> Over the past 48 years, I've owned many different brands of car, but
>>>> never anything from Chrysler. Nor will I ever. I still don't like
>>>> their style.
>>> Were they using gear reduction starters that early?
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_2OBC2d93g
>>>
>>> that's a GOOD sound!
>>>
>>> nate
>>>
>>>
>>
>> The Mopar gear reduction starters drew a lot less current from
>> the battery if I remember correctly. A low battery would start
>> a Dart with a slant six but wouldn't start a Falcon with a six.
>
> I found it didn't make much of a difference. The engine has to turn a
> certain RPM to get a start thus a gear reduction starter (they all
> are, really) had to turn faster to turn the engine over. In any case,
> starting the car in cold weather is just as much function of engine
> (et. al.) maintenance as it is the battery.
I do remember the battery connections being very critical on those
Falcons. I can remember replacing the factory installed Mopar
starter and the new one having a different gear ratio that spun the
engine faster. I believe that was because the newer vehicles with
all of the bolt on emission controls needed a faster cranking speed.
It was interesting to turn the key and not hear the classic Mopar groan.
TDD
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:35:09 -0600, The Daring Dufas
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Nate Nagel wrote:
>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> "ktos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> My next door neighbor has 2 Chryslers. Both cars sound like bombs
>>>> exploding when they start their cars.
>>>
>>>
>>> I can still remember back in the 50's hearing our neighbor start his
>>> '56 Dodge. It was a godawful sound very fitting for such an ugly car.
>>> Remember the three-tone paint jobs available back then? Most every
>>> maker had two-tone, but Dodge had to top them with three.
>>>
>>> Over the past 48 years, I've owned many different brands of car, but
>>> never anything from Chrysler. Nor will I ever. I still don't like
>>> their style.
>>
>> Were they using gear reduction starters that early?
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_2OBC2d93g
>>
>> that's a GOOD sound!
>>
>> nate
>>
>>
>
>
>The Mopar gear reduction starters drew a lot less current from
>the battery if I remember correctly. A low battery would start
>a Dart with a slant six but wouldn't start a Falcon with a six.
>
>TDD
A gear reduction starter on a HEMI drew lwss power than a six cyl
Falcon!! And the Ford moveable shoe type starters needed a good
battery and excellent connections, or they wouldn't even TRY to crank.
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 10:35:09 -0600, The Daring Dufas
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Nate Nagel wrote:
>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> "ktos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> My next door neighbor has 2 Chryslers. Both cars sound like bombs
>>>> exploding when they start their cars.
>>>
>>>
>>> I can still remember back in the 50's hearing our neighbor start his
>>> '56 Dodge. It was a godawful sound very fitting for such an ugly car.
>>> Remember the three-tone paint jobs available back then? Most every
>>> maker had two-tone, but Dodge had to top them with three.
>>>
>>> Over the past 48 years, I've owned many different brands of car, but
>>> never anything from Chrysler. Nor will I ever. I still don't like
>>> their style.
>>
>> Were they using gear reduction starters that early?
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_2OBC2d93g
>>
>> that's a GOOD sound!
>>
>> nate
>>
>>
>
>
>The Mopar gear reduction starters drew a lot less current from
>the battery if I remember correctly. A low battery would start
>a Dart with a slant six but wouldn't start a Falcon with a six.
I found it didn't make much of a difference. The engine has to turn a
certain RPM to get a start thus a gear reduction starter (they all
are, really) had to turn faster to turn the engine over. In any case,
starting the car in cold weather is just as much function of engine
(et. al.) maintenance as it is the battery.
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 00:04:43 -0700, Tony Hwang <[email protected]>
wrote:
>HeyBub wrote:
>> notbob wrote:
>>> On 2009-12-18, Lew Hodgett<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Still gets 25 MPG.
>>>
>>> My old '62 Dodge Lancer with slant six and AT got 22mph on highway.
>>>
>>
>> As long as we're bragging, my 1970 Ford Custom got 9mph.
>>
>> 'Course it had a police interceptor engine, a calibrated speedometer up to
>> 140, an 8-quart crankcase, and, believe it or not, a DELCO alternator.
>Hi,
>So visiting every gas station along the way. More time spent filling up
>than driving, Eh?!
The only thing the car couldn't pass was a gas station.
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 09:07:55 -0500, clare wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 08:38:28 -0500, Nate Nagel <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Some of the best cars I ever owned were early Mopars. I've owned 53,
>>>> 57, 63, 69, 74, 76, 85, 88, and now a 2002.
>>>
>>> A real glutton for punishment I see.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Meh? My ideal driveway for "drive it forever" cars would be filled with
>>50's Studebakers, 60's MoPars, and 80's VWs.
>>
>>Sadly, IMHO cars hve gone downhill since the 80's in terms of durability
>>and user serviceability.
>>
>>nate
>
> Definitely downhill on serviceability, but thankfully they require a
> lot less.
Yes, but they make up for it by often costing a small fortune when
something *does* go wrong...
... plus I like keeping it simple; if something does go wrong when
I'm out in the middle of nowhere, there's more chance I can fix it
by the roadside in an older vehicle than a modern one. I like that
safety and convenience.
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 08:38:28 -0500, Nate Nagel <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Some of the best cars I ever owned were early Mopars. I've owned 53,
>>> 57, 63, 69, 74, 76, 85, 88, and now a 2002.
>>
>> A real glutton for punishment I see.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>
>Meh? My ideal driveway for "drive it forever" cars would be filled with
>50's Studebakers, 60's MoPars, and 80's VWs.
>
>Sadly, IMHO cars hve gone downhill since the 80's in terms of durability
>and user serviceability.
>
>nate
Definitely downhill on serviceability, but thankfully they require a
lot less.
As far as durability? Yes, the old ones took more punishment - but
with minimal care, the new ones will outlast the old ones. No carbs to
screw up (or screw around with) No points to wear ot burn, stainless
exhausts and no phosphourous in the gas means mufflers and pipes often
last the life of the car - and rack and pinion steering means no
sloppy worn out steering boxes, idler arms, and pitman arms.
But yes, a Stude Golden Hawk, a '55 Chrysler 300, an early Paxon
Avanti, a 1953 or 54 Coronet Sierra and a matching Coronet Coupe, a
1966 Plymouth GTX, a '64 Fury convertible, a 69 SC Rambler,and a 68
AMX would all be in "the stable" for me. Oh - and a '53 starliner
coupe.
With perhaps a 55-56 T-Bird and a GT350 Shelby, and possibly a 59-61
Vette.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> FWIW, I have a friend who has a PhD in education, and is retired, not
> fired,
> so one can't claim that he is "disgruntled", who shares the opinion that
> the
> flaws in the system are inherent in the educational philosophy currently
> being taught in the colleges of education, and in the poltical tendency to
> require the schools to provide more and more social functions that are not
> rightly part of education.
>
So what was he doing to remedy the situation?
Tony Hwang wrote:
> Discerning hands and ears can tell. Actually real good hands can make
> any axe sound good but it is more difficult.
Well said ...
Only poor craftsman blames
> the tool. BTW, I have quite a few vintage LP, Fender, Gibson, Martin,
> etc. and Marshall, Fender, Boogie, etc. in my basement studio.
Cool ... my main axe is a '61 Fender Jazz.
Just for grins, some "American engineering" ... :)
http://www.e-woodshop.net/images/61Fender.jpg
...and it sounds like this:
http://www.wildriverband.com/Media/Let Me Go Home Whiskey.wma
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Smitty Two wrote:
>
> The original VW bug was inexpensive to buy, and relatively inexpensive
> to repair. That is hardly the same as being reliable.
Yeah, but how many cars come with a tool kit? Admittedly, the tool kit
wasn't much. It consisted of a cylinder with two socket ends (which fit
virtually every nut on the car), two screwdrivers, a pair of pliers, and a
metal rod used to turn the socket cylinder.
There's a video floating aroung (Guiness Book of Records folks) showing a
crew removing a VW engine, moving the engine four feet from the rear bumper,
reinstalling the engine, then driving the bug away. In one minute, four
seconds.
David Nebenzahl wrote:
> I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of
> shit: what do you expect? It's made in China!".
You mean like drywall, C-Less' "64GB USB Drive", and the stuff at Harbor
Fright?
A rose by any other name ...
Fuck China, and "Made in USA", for that matter ... I'm buying "European"
like Laguna, Festool, Omer, et al products every chance I get these days.
I want value for what few of my hard earned $$ I get to keep, not some
price point engineered POS with an advertising budget.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 2009-12-18, Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
> Still gets 25 MPG.
My old '62 Dodge Lancer with slant six and AT got 22mph on highway.
nb
"The Daring Dufas" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> Nonny wrote:
>> According to the book, "Small Wonder," the beetle was designed
>> by Dr. Porsche and the basic design was so good that only
>> refinements were made over its long manufacturing run. IMHO,
>> if there's any secret to VW's beetle, it was that they got lots
>> and lots of feedback from owners bringing the car in with the
>> little glitches. If there was consistency to a glitch, like a
>> door handle that kept breaking, VW would design a new and
>> improved one and start using them. The product was continually
>> refined and improved, within the limitations of the basic
>> design or concept.
>>
>> I had an '71 Super Beetle and felt it was an excellent car if
>> you overlooked the lack of heat in IN/MI winters. <grin>
>>
>
> I thought there was a gasoline burning heater option for cold
> climate
> VW Bugs.
>
> TDD
There was a gas heater option for one that came out a few years
after mine, but it was for a top of the line VW sedan, as I
recall. If I'd heard of a heater option for my '71, I sure as the
dickens would have gotten it. <grin>
--
Nonny
ELOQUIDIOT (n) A highly educated, sophisticated,
and articulate person who has absolutely no clue
concerning what they are talking about.
The person is typically a media commentator or politician.
On 2009-12-17, The Daring Dufas <[email protected]> wrote:
> Didn't they all come here to Alabamastan to work on them dang rockets?
Heh heh.... and I doubt there were too many folks named Homer Hickam
defecting to the US from the Nazi rocket program.
nb
HeyBub wrote:
> Smitty Two wrote:
>> The original VW bug was inexpensive to buy, and relatively inexpensive
>> to repair. That is hardly the same as being reliable.
>
> Yeah, but how many cars come with a tool kit? Admittedly, the tool kit
> wasn't much. It consisted of a cylinder with two socket ends (which fit
> virtually every nut on the car), two screwdrivers, a pair of pliers, and a
> metal rod used to turn the socket cylinder.
>
> There's a video floating aroung (Guiness Book of Records folks) showing a
> crew removing a VW engine, moving the engine four feet from the rear bumper,
> reinstalling the engine, then driving the bug away. In one minute, four
> seconds.
My motor pool guys would repair any VW engine, on the mess hall table,
for no charge and in about twenty minutes. In the service in Germany in
the 60's and 70's there was the proverbial "$50 Volkswagen", which you
bought for $50 from the guy going back home, and sold it for $50 to the
next guy when you left. Some of those things had titles as long as your
arm and had changed hands literally dozens of times.
My "$50 Volkswagen" a 1960, with tire chains on it, would take on any
blizzard with style; being air cooled, it never failed to start in
subzero weather, and it would run on the Autobahn all day at 80mph.
When winter hit in Southern Bavaria, and since I lived 20 miles from
base on mountain roads, I left the 2002TI at home and drove the Bug by
choice for the duration.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Leon wrote:
> I'm certain that the education that my son received at Kerr HS played a very
> major roll in him transitioning so smoothly into college. I recall the
> 10th graders mentoring the incoming 9th graders and most of them were high
> achievers. Life transitioning into Kerr HS was a bigger challenge for my
> son than going from that HS into college. I am also certain that Kerr HS
> played a major part in my son getting into the Honors College his first year
> at the university and graduating with a 4 year average GPA of 3.87.
"Summa Cum Laude" at that! Right?
Don't forget to add "parenting" into the equation.
Like Doug Miller's young Eagle Scout, few young folks achieve what both
your boys have achieved without the parents being a BIG part of the
success story.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Robatoy wrote:
> I once met a beautiful French woman. I was fascinated by her
> beauty...till I saw the hairy armpits and legs and smelled the
> Gauloises on her clothes.
Early 70's Germany, bathes taken once a week, maybe; German nightclub in
the dead of winter, dancing, everyone wearing wool, deodorant apparently
an "American thing" ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
In article <9280e86d-295a-4c0c-918f-
[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
> If you changed the oil and set the tappets on an old Bug, on a regular
> basis, those engines would run forever.
> VW Diesels are as inconsistent as the fuel you feed them.
>
>
That's funny. My first diesel VW Golf (the German version of the
'rabbit') didn't make it to the end of its lifespan since my first wife
totalled it in a head-on. Only thing that ever failed was the electric
diesel line shutoff relay.
The second never had any mechanical problems outside a CV boot or two,
new brakeshoes and once, a slipped cambelt until it popped an engine
seal at around 230,000 km and suddenly had oil in the water ... I
decided to sell it for scrap at that point.
My father still drives his, about 21 years old now, never had a
breakdown yet ...
Incidentally, the Jetta and some of the Passat models had very bad reps
in Germany also 30 years ago. Although the vanilla Passat SW was the
travelling salesman's economy vehicle of choice. I haven't looked at
them since, due to emigrating half way round the globe.
And, talking of reliable European cars, I've known quite a few series 2
Volvos that cracked half a million kilometres ... Now that Ford are
messing with the Volvo design I think that will not be the case any
more, I won't buy another Volvo designed & built since 2006. Currently
driving an 850 wagon and an XC70. Wonderful cars to drive, but lots of
little things go wrong all of the time :-(
-P.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> This post is aimed at all you sinophobes out there.
>
> I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of
> shit: what do you expect? It's made in China!".
>
> Now it is true that a lot of crap--boatloads of it, literally--does come
> from that great country. We've all seen it, used it, chucked it out.
>
> But bear in mind the historical precedent: some of you are probably old
> enough to remember the similar tarring of anything that had the label
> "Made in Japan" on it. Anything Japanese was considered worthless.
> Compare to today.
>
> I'm finding more and more that "Made in China" really doesn't mean
> anything about the quality of an item. Clearly, Chinese workers, as
> underpaid as they may be, are quite capable of making anything as well
> as anyone else in any other part of the world.
>
> Part of the problem is that we're placing blame in the wrong place. The
> *real* problem seems to be "Made in [anyplace] but designed in the U.S.
> [or some other place]".
>
I'll tell you what MOST gets my goat: the materials science. Plastics
made in China seem to have about half the lifespan of plastics made in
Thailand. If that ... some stuff starts to crumble a week after it comes
out of the box.
Generally this is not quite as much a problem with stuff designed in XXX
and made in China, because they tend to do QC, but it happens still. Our
Bosch washing machine, when delivered, turned out to be manufactured
there. Within a week, two switches had disintegrated. Our friend bought
the same model, and found herself holding the plastic handle for the
door in her hand inside the first month.
Tools made from what can only be described as potmetal ... ok, the
Chinese don't have the Exclusive on that one, but they excell at it.
I've had Chinese 'stainless' go rusty 3 weeks after unpacking and
removing the gel-packs.
Chrome plating turning into a razor edged hazard in a space of weeks or
even days...
I used to laugh at some Chinese made knives - they obviously had been
copied as a design by people who had no idea of the intended use.
Cutting edge blunt and 1 mm wide. I've seen a lot of that sort of thing
in fact. Mimicry without understanding the functionality of the item.
I'm perfectly well aware of the Japanese example, and I fully expect the
same thing to happen with Chinese made goods. Just as it happened with
the Taiwanese and the South Koreans. I've no problems buying Japanese or
Taiwanese made, somewhat more weary of Korean stuff still, except
electronics.
But clearly, the Chinese are not there yet. And with their sanctioned
policy of 'saving face is more important than dealing with problems or
addressing the issues' this may take longer for China to get up to speed
and communicate reliably with the rest of the world. There's been a lot
of shit happening this last year in industrial relations between China
and Australia and New Zealand, because neither side understood how to
bridge this cognitive dissonance.
Some time in the last couple of years we had a German engineer & family
as a Servas guest and he'd just come off a tour of duty in China, as an
adviser on building up a car factory (I think, for local production of
VWs) there. We asked him if he would buy one of those Chinese built
cars. He went "<cough><cough><cough> maybe not just yet".
Lol.
Personally, I shall await such time as ... for the time being I avoid
them as much as possible, even if I have to pay 20 times the price, and
no kidding.
f.w.i.w. -P.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>"Swingman" wrote:
>
>
>> I have a 01 Dodge PU ... beginning to rethink the decision, a little
>> late.
>
>Stepped out of the diesel rabbit and into a 99 "Tonka toy".
>
>A 4 banger /W/ a 5 spd stick.
>
>Passed 100K a few years ago with only rubber and wearing replacement
>parts needed.
>
>Still gets 25 MPG.
>
>Can't complain.
>
>Lew
>
>
>
my 2000 ranger 4-banger (5 spd stick) (24mpg) just turned 100k. No
issues other than rubber (lasted 75k) and brakes (lasted 85k).
scott
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> I replaced my electric water heater early in 2004. Looking at the
>> efficiency label on the old water heater and comparing to the new $300
>> water heater installed by me, I determined that it would pay for itself
>> in less than 2 years.
>
> Does your utility offer discount rates for an electric hot water heater
> that operates only during off peak hours?
Not yet! Before deregulation in TX I participated in a pilot program with
our only source for electricity. In 1995 they installed the fancy
programmable/hooked up to a modem central air thermostat. They also
installed a switch on the WH that was controlled by the central air
thermostat. During the Summer months I paid as little as 2.4 cents at
night, 3.4 cents in the late mornings, 12 cents in the afternoon and 6.5
cents early evening. Summer weekends an all Winter long never over 6.5
cents. The thermostac would control "what worked when" and inside
temperatures according to pricing tiers during the day and to what I decided
should be done at those points. Daily the thermostat would read the digital
electric meter and "phone home" the information concerning my usage. At any
time I could see how many KWh I had used for the day, week, and month. I
cold also see what the electricity had cost me for those time periods and a
projected estimated bill for the month. I LOVED IT!
I have not seen any thing like it since. However over the next 10 years the
Utility company is going to replace all the electric meters with digital
ones, like I had 15 years ago. Perhaps then I can get back on a plan.
>
> When my dad built our house in 1947, he installed a 100 gallon tank for 3
> people that only operated at night.
>
> We always had hot water heated by low cost electricity.
I basically had the same set up except I told the WH to come on at 8:pm and
run for 3 hours and again at 5:00 am and run for 1 hour. That worked out
fine also.
Smitty Two wrote:
> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Have YOU ever owned one?
>
> No,
Then your "opinion" on the matter is worth absolutely nothing.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
notbob wrote:
> On 2009-12-18, Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Still gets 25 MPG.
>
> My old '62 Dodge Lancer with slant six and AT got 22mph on highway.
>
Bet that was a hazard. Watched a lot of bumpers did you?
> nb
--
There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage
Rob Leatham
"notbob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2009-12-17, Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Your reefer may be in the same mode.
>
> But, is paying $800 for a more efficient ....read energy conserving,
> not colder.... gonna save you any money? Not likely before it dies
> and you need to spend another $800 another new one.
>
> nb
Well you have to also consider and I have had to factor this in before. If
the unit is old you must admit it may be on borrowed time, may be not. But
if you wait till it fails the food is going to be a costly factor added to
the cost of replacement if you don't catch the problem quickly enough. You
really never consider that angle till it happens.
Robatoy wrote:
> On Dec 17, 6:17 pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Robatoy wrote:
>>> I once met a beautiful French woman. I was fascinated by her
>>> beauty...till I saw the hairy armpits and legs and smelled the
>>> Gauloises on her clothes.
>> Early 70's Germany, bathes taken once a week, maybe; German nightclub in
>> the dead of winter, dancing, everyone wearing wool, deodorant apparently
>> an "American thing" ...
>>
>> --www.e-woodshop.net
>> Last update: 10/22/08
>> KarlC@ (the obvious)
>
> Sounds like you were around Garmisch Partenkirchen/Mittemwalt
> (Eibsee) area.
Between Regensburg and Nurnberg, lived in Darshofen. Battery in
Hohenfels, Battalion HQ in Grafenwoehr ... winter training/R&R in
Garmisch, tough duty, that!
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 12/16/2009 02:09 PM, Swingman wrote:
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of
>> shit: what do you expect? It's made in China!".
>
> You mean like drywall, C-Less' "64GB USB Drive", and the stuff at Harbor
> Fright?
>
> A rose by any other name ...
>
> Fuck China, and "Made in USA", for that matter ... I'm buying "European"
> like Laguna, Festool, Omer, et al products every chance I get these days.
Funny you mention Laguna...some of their stuff is made in China.
What about Lie-Nielsen and Starrett? Or General and Veritas and Oneway
from Canada?
Chris
On 2009-12-17, Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
> Your reefer may be in the same mode.
But, is paying $800 for a more efficient ....read energy conserving,
not colder.... gonna save you any money? Not likely before it dies
and you need to spend another $800 another new one.
nb
HeyBub wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> Jules wrote:
>>
>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There
>>> are talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>> spaceships.
>
> The Europeans built a spaceship? I think Flash Gordon was an American...
>
> Last I heard, the Europeans were trying to put up their own GPS satellite
> system - for reasons passing understanding.
Tsk, tsk ... you get into space on "rockets", Bubba ... Wernher Von Braun
Nuff said ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 2009-12-17, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> notbob wrote:
>
>> You can resort to name calling or you can discuss in a rational
>> discourse. The former is grounds for dismissal
>
> "....as opposed to baseless dogma spewed by narrow minded twits who
> refuse to see beyond personal prejudices."
A perfectly example of you inability to mount a viable argument.
Please.... continue to make a fool of yourself.
nb
Robatoy wrote:
>> A year or two back on "Car Talk"
>> somebody called to report that his Audi (either A4 or A6; I no longer
>> remember which) was burning a quart of oil every 1000 miles and the
>> dealer said not to worry about it.
>
> I find that 'caller' highly suspect and the response not indicative of
> an Audi dealer. Not that you can't lose a ring, or lube-seal on a
> turbo and burn a whack of oil in hurry, but the dealer response? Naaa,
> there more to that story.
My landlord in Germany, (who did not speak a word of English, so there
was always the possibility that my Bayerische Deutsch was not up to the
task) was sold on Audi's, and despite his constant efforts to change my
mind, I ended up buying a BMW 2002ti ... think I payed $2600 for it in
1973. We regularly met in the driveway over a beer on Saturday morning,
making disparaging remarks about each other's choice of auto as they set
side by side. :)
The Army shipped the 2002ti back for me and I sold it in the late 70's
for $6500. I don't think I could of got that for his Audi.
Still, in Germany in the 70's, the Audi was considered "primo", as was
impressed upon me weekly.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Leon wrote:
> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>> John Silber, former president of Boston College, was asked what one
>> thing could be done to improve the quality of education in America.
>> He answered: "Abolish colleges of education."
>>
>
> Sounds exactly like the typical "former" employee with an ax to grind
> would say.
>
> I'd say get rid of public education and all the bureaucracy that
> come with it. Privatize it.
Yep. If universal education is felt to be a worthwhile goal, give out
vouchers.
Oh, and before you shrug off John Silber as a disgruntled ex-employee, you
might check his Wikipedia entry. I just did and I see I made a mistake: He
was president of Boston University, not College.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Swingman" wrote:
>
>> Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient automobiles
>> known to mankind, and to this day the best selling car in history,
>> hit the ground running ... the "Volkswagen".
>
> How many did you own?
Two of the most reliable and economical cars I have ever owned, one late
50's model in Europe, and the other a 1960, both original design, and
probably still running today.
> Reliability was NOT my experience with a diesel Rabbit.
No wonder ... it was designed to give the American consumer the price
point designed trash he prefers.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Stormin Mormon wrote:
> "vesterveeetenbrznsksixenneeffersonskkinzvichmettersvinksintinschinscherzveerbroatten"
> which translates roughly as "tookie" in English.
Sorry, a search of my mind and neither term resulted a document.
I'll bite ... besides, some cRapper, what's a "tookie"?
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
David Nebenzahl wrote:
> Do I get some kind of prize for such a long thread? A discount on a.h.r
> (or wreck) merchandise specials? A special mention at next year's
> Usenetties?
Your cabal dues will be increased 50% in 2010 for all the bytes used,
plus the appropriate carbon footprint tax ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"ktos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>
>
> My next door neighbor has 2 Chryslers. Both cars sound like bombs
> exploding when they start their cars.
I can still remember back in the 50's hearing our neighbor start his '56
Dodge. It was a godawful sound very fitting for such an ugly car. Remember
the three-tone paint jobs available back then? Most every maker had
two-tone, but Dodge had to top them with three.
Over the past 48 years, I've owned many different brands of car, but never
anything from Chrysler. Nor will I ever. I still don't like their style.
On 2009-12-18, Stormin Mormon <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Interesting idea. I've used heavier oils, or STP oil
> treatment.
The old-timer's trick was to change to paraffin-based oil. It would
slow the leak and any smoking way down. This was always a last ditch
solution to an old tired engine needing rebuild cuz it would sludge up
an engine beyond belief and could never return to reg oils. I doubt
you can even find/buy paraffin-based oil, anymore.
nb
Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Mine were 1974 Dodge Dart, 1980 Dodge van "green one", and
> 1979 Dodge van "white one". Think the next was 1985 "white
> two". After my first Dodge, I swore I'd never buy another.
> Three more Dodges later, I've succeeded. Now have two
> Chevrolet products that I drive.
>
I have a 01 Dodge PU ... beginning to rethink the decision, a little late.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Does your utility offer discount rates for an electric hot water heater
> that operates only during off peak hours?
Crap Lew, I am bored so I am going to come back with an answer that you are
going to "owe me one" for. I'll be prepairing to duck.
Why would I need an electric hot water heater? ;~)
Thank you George Carlin.
Jules wrote:
> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are
> talented folk there, same as anywhere else
They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
spaceships.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 09:58:38 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>HeyBub wrote:
>> Smitty Two wrote:
>>> The original VW bug was inexpensive to buy, and relatively inexpensive
>>> to repair. That is hardly the same as being reliable.
>>
>> Yeah, but how many cars come with a tool kit? Admittedly, the tool kit
>> wasn't much. It consisted of a cylinder with two socket ends (which fit
>> virtually every nut on the car), two screwdrivers, a pair of pliers, and a
>> metal rod used to turn the socket cylinder.
>>
>> There's a video floating aroung (Guiness Book of Records folks) showing a
>> crew removing a VW engine, moving the engine four feet from the rear bumper,
>> reinstalling the engine, then driving the bug away. In one minute, four
>> seconds.
>
>My motor pool guys would repair any VW engine, on the mess hall table,
>for no charge and in about twenty minutes. In the service in Germany in
>the 60's and 70's there was the proverbial "$50 Volkswagen", which you
>bought for $50 from the guy going back home, and sold it for $50 to the
>next guy when you left. Some of those things had titles as long as your
>arm and had changed hands literally dozens of times.
>
>My "$50 Volkswagen" a 1960, with tire chains on it, would take on any
>blizzard with style; being air cooled, it never failed to start in
>subzero weather, and it would run on the Autobahn all day at 80mph.
>
>When winter hit in Southern Bavaria, and since I lived 20 miles from
>base on mountain roads, I left the 2002TI at home and drove the Bug by
>choice for the duration.
Too bad the durn things never had a functional heater - except the
gas heaters that were generally functional about one year at a time.
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:57:01 -0800, "CW" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Smitty Two wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> Snip
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I bought the VW's on their past reputation.
>>>>>
>>>>> The "Volkswagen", the original design, is what I was talking about.
>>>>> Not the price point engineered models they started making to woo
>>>>> and placate the American consumer with the junk they prefer.
>>>>
>>>> Exactly!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> The original VW bug was inexpensive to buy, and relatively inexpensive
>>> to repair. That is hardly the same as being reliable.
>>
>> However since there was so little to it, it tended to be reliable as
>> well--there just wan't much on it that could break.
>>
>
>Had two of them while living in Ethiopia. Very reliable. If parts were
>needed, you could get them there, unlike most cars. Also, being air cooled,
>would not boil over and leave you stranded in the desert, a potentially
>deadly situation.
But when the head studs stripped out of the crankcase, letting the
heads sag off both sides, boiling over would have been by far the
lesser of two evils. And that was a VERY common problem, particularly
in warm countries with rough roads. Up to 1300ccs they were pretty
good, but the 1500 and 1600cc engines dropped heads like flies.
My 1949 had the early Kubbelwaggen 1098cc (10 taxable horsepower)
engine. It had over 200,000 miles on it and I believe one valve job.
The newer stuff was not nearly as dependable .
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 22:52:29 -0600, The Daring Dufas
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:06:44 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Dec 19, 8:28 pm, The Daring Dufas <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Zootal wrote:
>>>>> "Nate Nagel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>>>>>>> Smitty Two wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>>>> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Jules wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There
>>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>>> talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>>>>>>>>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>>>>>>>>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>>>>>>>>> spaceships.
>>>>>>>> The Europeans have yet to make a reliable car.
>>>>>>> Lookie what I just tripped over. A 4 wheeled self propelled British
>>>>>>> bonfire. *snicker*
>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/y8jrrhf
>>>>>>> TDD
>>>>>> Odd then that I've had German cars as my daily drivers from roughly 1998
>>>>>> up until four years ago (when I got a company car.) I miss my cheap
>>>>>> German beaters, much higher quality and fewer annoyances than the brand
>>>>>> new American cars I've been driving since.
>>>>>> Still have the last of the beaters, a Porsche 944. If you told me I had
>>>>>> to be halfway across the country as soon as possible, I'd prefer to drive
>>>>>> that over the two year old Impala that shares driveway space with it.
>>>>>> (today, that would be an even easier choice as I have snow tires on the
>>>>>> Porsche but crappy all-seasons on the Impala)
>>>>>> nate
>>>>> I used to work for a Peugeot dealer many years ago. Peugeots were not too
>>>>> bad, for European made cars. They actually had quite a few American parts in
>>>>> them. The power steering pumps were Saginaws, right out of Michigan. We ship
>>>>> them to France, the French paint Peugeot on them and they then cost three
>>>>> times as much. Go figure.Their diesel engines will self-destruct if you over
>>>>> heat them even once, but they will last a long time otherwise. Their gas
>>>>> engine cars are pigs - absolute pigs. The gas powered 604 was a disastor.
>>>>> Today they make the Ion. Can't find a parking spot? No problem, pick the car
>>>>> up, fold it a few times and stick it in your pocket. Don't ever leave it
>>>>> parked on a hill because it will start rolling. Not rolling on the wheels,
>>>>> but rolling like a ball :)
>>>>> My all time favorite was the Citroen. Back in the 60s they were not allowed
>>>>> on base because they were such unsafe pieces of sh*t.
>>>> I seem to recall something about Rolls Royce using GM automatic
>>>> transmissions.
>>>>
>>>> TDD
>>> Yup. Turbos
>>> http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o290/Robatoy/oOl93.jpg
>> When RR first started using the Hydramatic they thought they needed
>> to "clean it up a bit" so they did some modifications to bring it up
>> to RR standasrds - and it wouldn't shift worth squat. Apparently they
>> made some parts TOO SMOOTH. From then on they just used what "the
>> general" supplied - just like it went into a Chevy.
>
>I guess GM had already put in a million man hours and spent a billion
>on R&D?
>
>TDD
Something like that. They had a tranny that worked pretty good for
several years by the time RR started using them. RR had planned on
using Hydramatic technology under licence, but found GM could build
them just fine.
Long after my poor Superbeetle had seen its prime, I was at work
one day when I received a call that a nursing home we'd financed
was in dire financial straits. I summoned an attorney from our
legal pool and we almost immediately headed off for the abandon
nursing home and its several hundred patients in the old VW. My
wife packed a suitcase for me, and the attorney's wife did one for
him.
We spent a couple weeks in the town accomplishing some good work,
then it was time to turn the place over to a receiver and head
home.
1) The VW was so old that its air cooled heater was merely a
memory
2) The VW was so "broken in" that it had no gasket around the
doors and rain/snow blew in around the doors.
3) The VW's gas gauge was just a memory
4) The VW's interior was colder than Billy Hell in a Michigan
winter storm.
Given that, imagine running out of gas on I-68 about 1/2 mile
outside of Marshall MI in a big snowstorm.
There are a couple further tales to tell about this story, but
I'll leave that for a future post.
--
Nonny
ELOQUIDIOT (n) A highly educated, sophisticated,
and articulate person who has absolutely no clue
concerning what they are talking about.
The person is typically a media commentator or politician.
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:38:23 -0500, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Too_Many_Tools wrote:
>> On Dec 17, 2:25 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>>> John Silber, former president of Boston College, was asked what one
>>>> thing could be done to improve the quality of education in America.
>>>> He answered: "Abolish colleges of education."
>>>
>>> Sounds exactly like the typical "former" employee with an ax to
>>> grind would say.
>>>
>>> I'd say get rid of public education and all the bureaucracy that
>>> come with it. Privatize it.
>>
>> And fine the parents for Johnny's poor performance when it occurs.
>
>I didn't realize that you were a liberal.
Whacko leftist nut-job, in fact.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:25:49 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> I owned one of the "original" export models - a 1949 - and not export
> to America either.
> In my experience and opinion, one of the most reliable built. It
> couldn't get out of it's own way downhill with a tailwind, so didn't
> have enough power to harm itself and was still going strong with over
> 200,000 miles on it when I sold it in 1974.
>
Word. My first "here kid, we're tired of driving you to school and
work-drive yourself" car was a 59 VW that my dad bought for about $100. He
put another few bucks into it (tires, brakes, etc.) and I used it daily
until I went off to college, when I bought it from him for $100. I drove
that car until I got my first "real" job out of grad school when I was 24. I
just couldn't take the crappy/lack of heat in upstate NY winters (engine's
in the back). Plus, it was a convertible, so it was even colder than a
hardtop. I got $500 when I sold it and I still miss that car, at least in
the summer. I don't miss freezing my fingers and toes off, however :)
[email protected] wrote:
>>> When RR first started using the Hydramatic they thought they needed
>>> to "clean it up a bit" so they did some modifications to bring it up
>>> to RR standasrds - and it wouldn't shift worth squat. Apparently they
>>> made some parts TOO SMOOTH. From then on they just used what "the
>>> general" supplied - just like it went into a Chevy.
>> I guess GM had already put in a million man hours and spent a billion
>> on R&D?
> Something like that. They had a tranny that worked pretty good for
> several years by the time RR started using them. RR had planned on
> using Hydramatic technology under licence, but found GM could build
> them just fine.
For a while, I think, GM vehicles in the USA used transmissions
developed by GMH ("General Motors-Holden"; GM bought the "Holden"
company and kept that name as part of the new company name; the vehicles
are simply called "Holden") in Australia. Don't recall whether it was
the Hydramatic or another one.
I also read that the Pontiac G8 was in fact a rebadged Holden Commodore
from Australia.
Perce
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:25:49 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> RE: Subject
>>
>> Having owned two (2) Beetles and a diesel Rabbit, POS comes to mind as
>> an apt description of VW product.
>
>Once again ... yours was engineered for the American market, so you are
>likely missing the point about my first post on the subject, which was
>_clearly_ about the original, European version, which started production
>over 60 years ago.
>
>Some of you guys need to learn to pay more attention to what's actually
>written.
I owned one of the "original" export models - a 1949 - and not export
to America either.
In my experience and opinion, one of the most reliable built. It
couldn't get out of it's own way downhill with a tailwind, so didn't
have enough power to harm itself and was still going strong with over
200,000 miles on it when I sold it in 1974.
It was an experience to drive, with 4 wheel cable operated brakes that
would pull strongly one way or the other on initial application and
were almost useless at speeds of over 50mph.
Anything over 1300cc displacement lost the reliability.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:57:01 -0800, "CW" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> Smitty Two wrote:
>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>> Snip
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I bought the VW's on their past reputation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The "Volkswagen", the original design, is what I was talking about.
>>>>>> Not the price point engineered models they started making to woo
>>>>>> and placate the American consumer with the junk they prefer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Exactly!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The original VW bug was inexpensive to buy, and relatively inexpensive
>>>> to repair. That is hardly the same as being reliable.
>>>
>>> However since there was so little to it, it tended to be reliable as
>>> well--there just wan't much on it that could break.
>>>
>>
>>Had two of them while living in Ethiopia. Very reliable. If parts were
>>needed, you could get them there, unlike most cars. Also, being air
>>cooled,
>>would not boil over and leave you stranded in the desert, a potentially
>>deadly situation.
>
>
> But when the head studs stripped out of the crankcase, letting the
> heads sag off both sides, boiling over would have been by far the
> lesser of two evils. And that was a VERY common problem, particularly
> in warm countries with rough roads. Up to 1300ccs they were pretty
> good, but the 1500 and 1600cc engines dropped heads like flies.
> My 1949 had the early Kubbelwaggen 1098cc (10 taxable horsepower)
> engine. It had over 200,000 miles on it and I believe one valve job.
> The newer stuff was not nearly as dependable .
Never had any trouble but, fact was that any long distance we traveled was
in convoy. Armed guards in front and recker in back. No one was left behind.
"Dave Balderstone" <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote in message
news:161220092126090752%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca...
>>
> A surprising number of the best NASA scientists and engineers came from
> Canada after the Avro Arrow project was canceled by the Diefenbaker
> Conservative government.
>
> <http://www.avroarrow.org/AvroArrow/Avroengineers.html>
Considering that they were getting a better offer than staying in Canada,
the numbers may not be so suprising. What may be suprising is the number of
Canadian sientists that Canada could not hold on to.
On 2009-12-17, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> What nonsense? ... you can't be that dense, eh? Shit happens in every
> country, culture, civilization - past, present, and future.
Well, duh! That was pretty much my point.
nb
Swingman wrote:
> Tony Hwang wrote:
>
>> You can't fuck China, she is too big/powerful now.
>
> When "she" starts making quality, innovative, well engineered tools like
> Festool does I'll start buying Chinese. Until then, in a tool buying
> sense, fuck China, and the US also ... just in case you think there is
> discrimination involved.
>
> People who work with their hands know the difference ... keep that in mind.
>
Hi,
I am not Chinese, LOL!
Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I predict the Chinese are following the same arc that the Japanese did
>> after WWII, with variations, of course; there's no Marshall Plan, and
>> the countries are vastly different. Nonetheless, I can forsee the day
>> when "Made in China" is no longer a call for derision.
>>
>> By way of showing just how wrong people can be when predicting who's
>> winning the industrial game, here's a hilariously and astoundingly
>> wrong prediction about the Japanese and American photographic
>> industries from 1946: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-136.html
>
>
> In UK in the late 1950s already, when I was becoming seriously
> interested in photography, I don't think any American cameras were
> considered high quality. The really good stuff was Leica (German) and
> Hasselblad (Swedish? -- both mucho expensivo). Praktica (E. German) was
> OK. Some of the Japanese brands were coming onto the market, IIRC. I'm
> not sure that Kodak was considered a serious photographer's camera.
>
> Perce
Olympus made at least one fantastic camera around that time - or was it
the early sixties? I had an Olympus PenE, half frame SLR that took
fantastic pictures.
On 2009-12-17, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Give up, nutbob ... you're in over your head.
Hardly.
There's a very simple reason why experienced folks could repair a VW
in just minutes: practice!
nb
"Too_Many_Tools" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Snip
Try volunteering in a school for awhile and you will have your eyes
opened.
The problem starts at home.
Totally agree with that statement. We want to keep up with the Jones'
although we don't have the education or aptitude to do that so both of us
have to work to keep up, and we still want 3.8 children, but we don't have
the time to supervise them. We want the school to do their share in raising
our children but don't do any thing to hurt their feelings or discipline
them more so than we would.
The ones in charge mostly being elected into the position and those that
have the powers to appoint positions really don't care if the education
system/factory turns out a smart child or not. They are supervising/baby
sitting for the parents, the ones too busy to properly watch over their own
children.
The teachers eat poo. They have to deal with the bureaucracy, don't scold
Mary, don't make Juan learn or speak English, make sure every one gets a
trophy, make sure they are taught the achievement tests, waste time with
kids that need a whoopin but their parents will not give them one. And for
God's sake don't show any extra attention to those that have true potential.
The good teachers find better jobs with less stress and a job that means
something, something they can proud to have been a part of. The good
teachers go to private schools where nonsense discipline matters get handled
and not shuffled into the next class.
Eventually the good teachers are very few and far in between. Not so many
fresh college graduate teachers have the maturity to deal with the politics.
The good ones find a better job.
Slowly but surely the school system becomes filled with "not so many" good
teachers and yet there are still lots of teacher in the public education
system. These teachers unfortunately are also a casualty of the system.
Fewer and fewer qualified teachers are attracted to the public school system
and finally the system takes what it can get.
What the system gets becomes another aspect of the problem and the cancer
spreads.
And the parents are Ground Zero for that problem.
Greed!
TMT
On 2009-12-18, HeyBub <[email protected]> wrote:
> As long as we're bragging, my 1970 Ford Custom got 9mph.
Weirdest deal was my '91 Ford Econoline 150 van with 4.9L straight 6
w/ fuel injection and overdrive. When I lived in CA, near sea level,
the best I could avg was 18-19mpg babying the go pedal to keep it
below 62mph. Moved to CO (where the van was originally sold) and I
could get 23-24mpg running at 70-75mph. Go figure. Too bad I put it
into a tree on the outside of an icy turn. :(
nb
David Nebenzahl wrote:
> This post is aimed at all you sinophobes out there.
>
> I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of
> shit: what do you expect? It's made in China!".
>
> Now it is true that a lot of crap--boatloads of it, literally--does come
> from that great country. We've all seen it, used it, chucked it out.
>
> But bear in mind the historical precedent: some of you are probably old
> enough to remember the similar tarring of anything that had the label
> "Made in Japan" on it. Anything Japanese was considered worthless.
> Compare to today.
>
> I'm finding more and more that "Made in China" really doesn't mean
> anything about the quality of an item. Clearly, Chinese workers, as
> underpaid as they may be, are quite capable of making anything as well
> as anyone else in any other part of the world.
>
> Part of the problem is that we're placing blame in the wrong place. The
> *real* problem seems to be "Made in [anyplace] but designed in the U.S.
> [or some other place]". A lot, if not most, of what I would call
> "Chinese junk" is actually made as well as the design would allow for,
Anyone who wants to sell anything in a competing market has to make it
as cheaply as can be done in Mexico, China, Bangladesh, etc....what they
make is done under an entirely different labor economy (and socialized
medicine, probably). But you know that already.
> including the materials used and the amount of labor committed to
> finishing the item. So in many cases Chinese factories are making
> faithful copies of a shitty design that may well have come from some
> designer's computah right here in The Greatest Industrial Power on Earth
> (the US of A).
>
> I predict the Chinese are following the same arc that the Japanese did
> after WWII, with variations, of course; there's no Marshall Plan, and
> the countries are vastly different. Nonetheless, I can forsee the day
> when "Made in China" is no longer a call for derision.
>
> By way of showing just how wrong people can be when predicting who's
> winning the industrial game, here's a hilariously and astoundingly wrong
> prediction about the Japanese and American photographic industries from
> 1946: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-136.html
>
>
When I was a little kid, we always included "the starving children in
China" in our prayers (hadn't discovered Africa yet). Just to show how
times have changed.....just the other day, this wonderful, sweet
missionary knocked on our door. He handed me $5, a bag of rice and a
dead duck. He didn't speak clear English, but left a pamphlet in
Chinese and badly translated English inviting all of the neighborhood
children to Buddhist services. It also mentioned that all the
neighborhood children would be welcome at classes to learn to speak and
write Chinese, gardening, raising livestock, building inexpensive
housing, cooking with a wok, using alternative fuels, and respect for
elders. It also said that the Chinese had saved so much money, they
were buying America and sending homesteaders over to run the country
properly. ;o)
"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Swingman wrote:
>> Jules wrote:
>>
>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There
>>> are talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>>
>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>> spaceships.
>
> The Europeans built a spaceship? I think Flash Gordon was an American...
No, Flesh Gordon was the American... ;~)
"LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> PGE recently replaced our analog meter with a digital one. So far it does
> not 'phone home' to me and I only look at it when taking out the trash,
> but the odd thing is my usage dropped by about ten percent since they put
> it in. No changes at all in appliances or usage. I'm becoming very
> suspicious that a faulty analog meter or reader's eyeballs have been
> charging me an extra ten percent for years.
I'd suspect a faulty meter over being misread. While a meter is easily
misread it is usually corrected on the following read. If you are seeing
longer term less usage it sounds like the old meter was not being nice to
you.
My meter comunicated with the thermostat and then through the modem to give
the power company the information. The meter readers would give that meter
the strangest looks as it was not readabel IIRC, the modem was the link to
my billing.
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Do the presently employed teachers do a good job teaching
> the liberal agenda? Be dumb. Be compliant. Fear global
> warming. And, lets teach everyone how to have "safe" sex by
> rolling a condom on a cucumber before going to town.
>
I should think it would be better to simply explain that if they washed the
cucumber properly first, there would be no need to slip a condom on it for
safe sex...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Somebody wrote:
>> As long as we're bragging, my 1970 Ford Custom got 9mph.
>>
>> 'Course it had a police interceptor engine, a calibrated speedometer
>> up to
>> 140, an 8-quart crankcase, and, believe it or not, a DELCO
>> alternator.
>
>
> Police vehicle?
>
> 1970?
>
> Delco alternator?
>
> Very doubtful.
>
> That was Leece-Neville business back then.
>
> Lew
I dunno. When I noticed it, I called the dealership. They told me Ford did
not have access to 100-amp alternators and equipped all their taxi and
police package vehicles with Delcos they bought from GM.
"David Nebenzahl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This post is aimed at all you sinophobes out there.
>
> I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of
> shit: what do you expect? It's made in China!".
>
> Now it is true that a lot of crap--boatloads of it, literally--does come
> from that great country. We've all seen it, used it, chucked it out.
>
> But bear in mind the historical precedent: some of you are probably old
> enough to remember the similar tarring of anything that had the label
> "Made in Japan" on it. Anything Japanese was considered worthless. Compare
> to today.
I have made this point on this newsgroup and elsewhere. At the time "made in
Japan" meant junk, I lived in Japan. You could buy anything you could ever
want. The quality ranged from junk to the finest quality you'd find
anywhere. Lots of the technology in common use there had not even been seen
in the US (at least not by Joe Average).What perpetuated the "Japanese junk"
idea was the American importers. Junk was extremely cheap, so much so that,
even with a substantial markup, they could still sell it cheap enough here
that people would buy it. They (the importers) new that high quality was
available but there was no moony in it. The Chinese are in the same position
now. High quality is available in China but no one is bringing it into the
US. There is no money in it.
>
On Dec 18, 4:26=A0am, Peter Huebner <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> And, talking of reliable European cars, I've known quite a few series 2
> Volvos that cracked half a million kilometres ... Now that Ford are
> messing with the Volvo design I think that will not be the case any
> more, I won't buy another Volvo designed & built since 2006. Currently
> driving an 850 wagon and an XC70. Wonderful cars to drive, but lots of
> little things go wrong all of the time :-(
>
I quite like the C30 Volvo. Ford's hands in things don't always turn
out bad.
The fact that a C30 fetches as much money as it does is a bit of a
pisser considering that what it really *is*...is a Mazda 3.
I have owned Volvos in the past without any drama.
On Dec 17, 6:17=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy wrote:
> > I once met a beautiful French woman. I was fascinated by her
> > beauty...till I saw the hairy armpits and legs and smelled the
> > Gauloises on her clothes.
>
> Early 70's Germany, bathes taken once a week, maybe; German nightclub in
> the dead of winter, dancing, everyone wearing wool, deodorant apparently
> an "American thing" ...
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 10/22/08
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
Sounds like you were around Garmisch Partenkirchen/Mittemwalt
(Eibsee) area.
Most any fool knows there are exceptions to everything ... it is the
thickheaded cavilers who continue to harp on the exceptions to show
their asses and ignorance.
Arguably, we were standing on the shoulders of giants when it came to
innovative engineering and quality, for much, if not most of "New World"
engineering impetus which resulted in the much vaunted "Made in USA"
label of the 20th century, was due to European immigration to the
America's, bringing their traditions going back to craftsman's guilds
and their pioneering of early engineering principles in Europe since
Roman times.
AAMOF, Canada, almost alone in the America's today with products like
Veritas, seems to still exhibit manifestations of these traditions;
instead of the price point engineered, MBA driven POS being produced by
Chinese proxy for the United Corporations of America.
As far as many woodworking tools today, it is a FACT that if you really
want quality, innovation, and excellence in engineering, you look first
to European manufacturers like Festool, a shining example of innovation
and quality through engineering which you will find no place else on
earth in this, the first decade of the 21st century.
It's sad, but a fact ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Smitty Two wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Smitty Two wrote:
>>
>>> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>> Have YOU ever owned one?
>>> No,
>> Then your "opinion" on the matter is worth absolutely nothing.
>
> Well, I'm glad we got that settled. Thanks for editing all meaningful
> content out of my post, in order to create the illusion of defending
> your own Meaningful Opinion. Have a nice day.
There is little meaningful about "opinion" based on hearsay ... mine was
based on owning a couple of the cars remarked upon in my original post.
Anything else is pointless 'apples and oranges'.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Dec 17, 9:08=A0am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Leon wrote:
> > "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
>
> >> Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient automobiles
> >> known to mankind, and to this day the best selling car in history,
> >> hit the ground running =A0... the "Volkswagen".
>
> > I will have to disagree with you there. =A0Kim and I bought a new 99
> > Jetta, it left her stranded on the freeway 3 times under warranty the
> > first 18 months, and a dead battery replaced under warranty. =A0That
> > was the Mexico built vehicle. =A0Towed into the dealership and "no
> > problem found " on the 3 rd time we immediately traded for a German
> > built 2000 Passat. =A0We almost kept it 4 years. =A0While we had it, it
> > left Kim stranded 2 times, once was a faulty starter relay, the
> > second time another dead battery replaced by me. =A0Then there were
> > numerous emissions problems, the need to replace both outer tie rod
> > ends at 30K, and the heater core at 43K. =A0The transmission was
> > showing signs of failure. Traded for the 04 Accord at 47K. =A0 Both
> > vehicles were serviced more often than recommended by the dealer.
> > The 99 Jetta and 2000 Passat were serviced/oil changed at 3K =A0VW
> > recommended every 10K. =A0After trading the Passat we got a factory
> > letter rewording service intervals for the turbo, every 3K and with
> > synthetic oil. =A0I saw that coming.
>
> > I bought the VW's on their past reputation.
>
> > Maybe my first VW's were a fluke but I'll probably never buy another.
>
> You folks who are going on about "Rabbits" and "Jettas" and suchlike are
> missing the point.
>
> THE Volkswagen, the Type I, aka the Beetle, aka the Porsche Type 60, was =
in
> continuous production for over 60 years with more than 20 million built,
> both the longest and largest production runs in automotive history.
>
> >> Sheessh, it's sad, this total failure of the educational system and
> >> the resultant ignorance!
>
> > Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers
> > that don't give a shit and that finally led to teachers that could
> > not find a job any where else. =A0 Long ago when teachers could step in
> > as a parent and administer discipline he or she could actually teach.
> > We have lost teachers that actually taught for baby sitters.
>
> Uh, you might want to actually get drunk with a few teachers sometime bef=
ore
> you blame them. =A0They have to do what they can with what they've got an=
d
> what they've got these days isn't much (and I'm not talking about the kid=
s,
> I'm talking about the rules they are required to work under). =A0Wanna fi=
x
> education, first shoot all the professors of education and all the school
> boards.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Try volunteering in a school for awhile and you will have your eyes
opened.
The problem starts at home.
And the parents are Ground Zero for that problem.
TMT
On Dec 17, 5:26=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" wrote:
> > The French are not stupid.
>
> When it comes to doing business, the Germans can be difficult but the
> French are impossible.
>
> Lew
I once met a beautiful French woman. I was fascinated by her
beauty...till I saw the hairy armpits and legs and smelled the
Gauloises on her clothes.
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:37:16 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"RonB" wrote:
>
>Much of the airframe and
>wiring in venerable aircraft like the Beech Bonanza and King Air are
>manufactured in Mexico and assembled in Kansas; avionics guts come
>from the east.
>------------------------------------------
>"Beech Bonanza", or as described to me by a pilot in Tulsa, "Split
>tailed doctor killer".
>
>Lew
>
>
"fork tailed lawyer killer" is another one.
On Dec 16, 9:37=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "RonB" wrote:
>
> Much of the airframe and
> wiring in venerable aircraft like the Beech Bonanza and King Air are
> manufactured in Mexico and assembled in Kansas; avionics guts come
> from the east.
> ------------------------------------------
> "Beech Bonanza", or as described to me by a pilot in Tulsa, "Split
> tailed doctor killer".
>
> Lew
On the bright side, lawyers fly too.
The old V-tail is a good airplane but you can't overcome perception so
the went conventional.
The truth is, if anyone dies in an airplane, the manufacturer WILL BE
SUED. Back in the late 80's I was told that the first $80K of any
aircraft product price was built-in litigation expense. If you take
off with a near empty gas tank, no oil, drunk as a skunk and fly into
a box canyon; they still come after the manufacturer. We usually win
those, but spent millions keeping up with it. Even military products
collected lawyers.
RonB
> On the bright side, lawyers fly too.
>
> The old V-tail is a good airplane but you can't overcome
> perception so
> the went conventional.
>
It is my vague recollection that the V-tail was one of the early
civilian planes to have a flush riveted wing and was very "clean."
As a result, an inattentive pilot would be flying along and get
into a very shallow dive. Before he got any shuddering, noise or
other indication of speed, he would have far exceeded the "do not
exceed" speed of the airframe. Eventually, he'd notice that he
was going like a bat out of h*ll, and would pull back
instinctively on the stick. The wings would be instantly
overloaded and he'd look up to see them fluttering away.
This is just a recollection from my own flying lesson days, and I
can't say that I can vouch for the source.
--
Nonny
ELOQUIDIOT (n) A highly educated, sophisticated,
and articulate person who has absolutely no clue
concerning what they are talking about.
The person is typically a media commentator or politician.
Chris Friesen wrote:
> On 12/16/2009 01:39 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> I'm finding more and more that "Made in China" really doesn't mean
>> anything about the quality of an item. Clearly, Chinese workers, as
>> underpaid as they may be, are quite capable of making anything as well
>> as anyone else in any other part of the world.
>
> True.
>
> However, going by various comments written by people in the industry,
> there also seems to be a cultural impetus to try and push the lower
> boundaries of the quality standards. So if a Chinese factory contracts
> for a given level of quality there is a tendency for that level to drop
> over time unless the company that hired them keeps on top of things.
>
> I suspect this holds true to a certain extent in many places, but he
> impression that I have gotten (from various places) is that this is
> worse when dealing with Chinese manufacturers.
>
> Chris
>
Hi,
Not only Chinese, that is human nature. You have to be vigilant on quality.
On 2009-12-17, Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> They had great seat, though! ;)
>
> True.
>
> Same with the Opel and the "Bug".
I can't say the same thing about the bug and Opel, but I know my
Rabbit had the greatest seats in the history of automobiles. I used
to work, on my feet, for 10-12 hrs on the production floor and at the
end of the day when I came out to my old Rab, I'd jes sit there in it
and luxuriate for a couple mins in its perfect spinal alignment. It
was like a personal chiropractor. I once considered doing my house in
Rabbit front seats... dinette set, circular lounge, etc. LOL
nb
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:19:48 -0800 (PST), DD_BobK <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Dec 16, 7:26Â pm, Dave Balderstone
><dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca> wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, J. Clarke
>>
>>
>>
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > CW wrote:
>> > > "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > >news:[email protected]...
>> > >> HeyBub wrote:
>> > >>> Swingman wrote:
>> > >>>> Jules wrote:
>>
>> > >>>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less.
>> > >>>>> There are talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>> > >>>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>> > >>>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers,
>> > >>>> to spaceships.
>>
>> > >>> The Europeans built a spaceship? I think Flash Gordon was an
>> > >>> American...
>>
>> > >>> Last I heard, the Europeans were trying to put up their own GPS
>> > >>> satellite system - for reasons passing understanding.
>>
>> > >> Tsk, tsk ... you get into space on "rockets", Bubba ... Wernher Von
>> > >> Braun
>>
>> > > Yes, the success of the American space program was due to imports.
>> > > They imported Germany's best scientists.
>>
>> > So what percentage of the engineers working on Apollo were German?
>>
>> > Hint--go to Youtube and search on "Disney Moon" and you'll find that the
>> > concept that Von Braun was pushing pre-Apollo was considerably different
>> > from what actually flew (and before you make some ignorant sneering remark
>> > about Disney, do the search and watch the episode).
>>
>> A surprising number of the best NASA scientists and engineers came from
>> Canada after the Avro Arrow project was canceled by the Diefenbaker
>> Conservative government.
>>
>> <http://www.avroarrow.org/AvroArrow/Avroengineers.html>
>
>Not to discount the contribution of these aforementioned Canadian
>engineers but realistically how many were enticed to come to the US
>AND how many US scientists and engineers were working at NASA at the
>time? (also consider the number of S & E's working for contractors as
>well)
>
>Did these Canadian engineers represent 1%? 5% 10% 25% ?
>
>cheers
>Bob
How about roughly the top 10%?????????
On Dec 19, 8:28=A0pm, The Daring Dufas <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Zootal wrote:
> > "Nate Nagel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> The Daring Dufas wrote:
> >>> Smitty Two wrote:
> >>>> In article <[email protected]>,
> >>>> =A0Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>>>> Jules wrote:
>
> >>>>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. The=
re
> >>>>>> are
> >>>>>> talented folk there, same as anywhere else
> >>>>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
> >>>>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, t=
o
> >>>>> spaceships.
> >>>> The Europeans have yet to make a reliable car.
> >>> Lookie what I just tripped over. A 4 wheeled self propelled British
> >>> bonfire. =A0*snicker*
>
> >>>http://tinyurl.com/y8jrrhf
>
> >>> TDD
> >> Odd then that I've had German cars as my daily drivers from roughly 19=
98
> >> up until four years ago (when I got a company car.) =A0I miss my cheap
> >> German beaters, much higher quality and fewer annoyances than the bran=
d
> >> new American cars I've been driving since.
>
> >> Still have the last of the beaters, a Porsche 944. =A0If you told me I=
had
> >> to be halfway across the country as soon as possible, I'd prefer to dr=
ive
> >> that over the two year old Impala that shares driveway space with it.
> >> (today, that would be an even easier choice as I have snow tires on th=
e
> >> Porsche but crappy all-seasons on the Impala)
>
> >> nate
>
> > I used to work for a Peugeot dealer many years ago. Peugeots were not t=
oo
> > bad, for European made cars. They actually had quite a few American par=
ts in
> > them. The power steering pumps were Saginaws, right out of Michigan. We=
ship
> > them to France, the French paint Peugeot on them and they then cost thr=
ee
> > times as much. Go figure.Their diesel engines will self-destruct if you=
over
> > heat them even once, but they will last a long time otherwise. Their ga=
s
> > engine cars are pigs - absolute pigs. The gas powered 604 was a disasto=
r.
> > Today they make the Ion. Can't find a parking spot? No problem, pick th=
e car
> > up, fold it a few times and stick it in your pocket. Don't ever leave i=
t
> > parked on a hill because it will start rolling. Not rolling on the whee=
ls,
> > but rolling like a ball :)
>
> > My all time favorite was the Citroen. Back in the 60s they were not all=
owed
> > on base because they were such unsafe pieces of sh*t.
>
> I seem to recall something about Rolls Royce using GM automatic
> transmissions.
>
> TDD
Yup. Turbos
http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o290/Robatoy/oOl93.jpg
Steve wrote:
> On 2009-12-17 08:45:29 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]> said:
>
>> Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers
>> that don't give a shit and that finally led to teachers that could
>> not find a job any where else. Long ago when teachers could step
>> in as a parent and administer discipline he or she could actually
>> teach. We have lost teachers that actually taught for baby sitters.
>
> No, it's not poor teachers (though, like anything else, there are
> exceptions to prove the rule). It's the abdication of parental
> responsibility and expectations (though, like anything else, there are
> exceptions to prove the rule).
>
Nope. That's a cop-out by the educational establishment trying to deflect
blame. Those students who DO have parental involvement get better grades,
true, but that's because the parents are doing the job the teacher should
have done. The best example of this assertion is the huge success of many
home-schooled kids.
If ONE parent can produce ONE merit scholar, why can't the professional
educators produce a school full?
As an aside, name one field, other than Education, where a candidate can get
the terminal degree in their field (usually a PhD) without knowledge of a
foreign language.
notbob wrote:
> On 2009-12-17, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> thickheaded cavilers who continue to harp on the exceptions to show
>> their asses and ignorance.
>
> ....as opposed to baseless dogma spewed by narrow minded twits who
> refuse to see beyond personal prejudices.
Nice self description there, nutbob ... well done!
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Switching to OT as the material has gone photographic ...
On 12/16/2009 8:04 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 12/16/2009 4:26 PM Tim Daneliuk spake thus:
>
>> On 12/16/2009 5:56 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>>> The single exception I can think of is the Graflex press cameras (Crown
>>> and Speed Graphics), made here in the US and used around the world up
>>> through the 1970s.
>>
>> These were- and are- wonderful cameras. They're even better when you
>> throw away the coke bottle lenses (Ektars) that came with them and shove
>> a nice German Schneider onto the snout of the camera :)
>
> I disagree; I have a Crown with the Ektar 127mm lens, and it's sharp as
> a tack. The lens to stay away from here, apparently, and surprisingly,
> is the Xenar, which is usually a great piece of glass but for some
> reason the ones found with Graphics usually suck. The Optars that a lot
> others come with is just so-so.
Now that I think about it, you're probably right. It was the Xenar
that was a dog. And, yes, the WF Ektars are still highly prized.
>
> What I'd really like to get my hands on would be one of Kodak's wide
> field Ektars (speaking of quality American-made stuff). Check these
> out on eBay--they usually sell for really big $$$. (Of course, a
> Super Angulon would be nice too ...)
I have a modern 72mm SA XL that will cover 5x7 but I use it on a 4x5
field camera. A number of years ago I was shooting some of the bluffs
in Zion National Park when another photographer asked if he could peek
under the dark cloth. He was shaking his head and laughing when he
stepped back and said, "You can see your toes with that lens." It's
pretty amazing. From ground level I could capture the top of the
bluffs (about 400-500 feet up) all the way down to the rocks in the
foreground with enough movements to correct all the perspective I
needed. The lens is, however, a beast, requiring a 95mm filter and
bag bellows on the field camera.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk [email protected]
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/
On Dec 17, 10:23=A0pm, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**[email protected]> wrote:
> Mine were electronic (they went electronic after 1974). I
> liked being able to set timing on the 225 CID with a 7/16
> socket on the end of an extension, and a timing light. The
> 318 was a pain, I may still have my 12 point distributor
> wrench. 9/16 was it?
>
> The one slant six I had, I screwed up and got the wrong
> plugs, one time. I had to troubleshoot and replace two
> plugs. Under a bridge, in Wyoming, with about 40 or 50 MPH
> wind from the west.
>
> I remember my Mopars being very moisture sensetive. Even
> knowing the module ground and all, somtimes they just didn't
> want to start if there was some humidity around. Or rain the
> day before.
I remember when I was a real little kid my dad had an old beater
Valiant - I think it was a '64 or thereabouts. He was always having
problems with the carburetor on it... years later I dated a girl with
a '69, that car had a Holley 1bbl and it too had issues. Replaced the
carb with a Carter and it ran splendiferously ever after. Only
problems with it after that point were a ballast resistor that failed,
and the fact that the points would burn just about every 9 mos. like
clockwork (maybe due to a off spec replacement ballast?) then she had
to have the head redone because she didn't adjust the valves (probably
ever) and burned one. Other than that it was a very reliable car,
wish I had it today.
nate
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:00:32 -0800, "CW" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> HeyBub wrote:
>>> Swingman wrote:
>>>> Jules wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There
>>>>> are talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>>>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>>>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>>>> spaceships.
>>>
>>> The Europeans built a spaceship? I think Flash Gordon was an American...
>>>
>>> Last I heard, the Europeans were trying to put up their own GPS satellite
>>> system - for reasons passing understanding.
>>
>> Tsk, tsk ... you get into space on "rockets", Bubba ... Wernher Von Braun
>>
>Yes, the success of the American space program was due to imports. They
>imported Germany's best scientists.
And Canada's. All the brains behind the Avro Arrow put the Yanks into
space and onto the moon.
Strategic move on the part of the Americans to pressure Dief into
canning the Arrow.
Swingman wrote:
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>
>> I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of
>> shit: what do you expect? It's made in China!".
>
> You mean like drywall, C-Less' "64GB USB Drive", and the stuff at Harbor
> Fright?
>
> A rose by any other name ...
>
> Fuck China, and "Made in USA", for that matter ... I'm buying "European"
> like Laguna, Festool, Omer, et al products every chance I get these days.
>
> I want value for what few of my hard earned $$ I get to keep, not some
> price point engineered POS with an advertising budget.
>
Hmmm,
Made U.S.A. Made in EU" Really? 100%?
Economy stands on bottom line these days.
You can't fuck China, she is too big/powerful now.
On 2009-12-17, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Did you not just contradict yourself with your story about friends
> "ancient" VW?
We have a local fellow with many "ancient" VWs. None of them run, but
they've yet to rust completely away.
nb
On Dec 16, 3:27=A0pm, Jules <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:39:07 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
> > This post is aimed at all you sinophobes out there.
>
> > I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of
> > shit: what do you expect? It's made in China!".
>
> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are
> talented folk there, same as anywhere else - but if people want to pay
> for crap that breaks after a few months so that they then have to go
> out and buy more crap, then that's what the Chinese will happily make...
>
> Problem is, *everyone* does it. It's almost impossible for a company to
> exist on the basis of making a 'quality' product any more - which means
> that even if the individual wants to pay extra for something that'll last=
,
> the product simply doesn't exist.
>
> cheers
>
> Jules
Interesting discussion.
I think also much of the "blame" is upon the buyer.....how much will
each of us pay for more quality?
We get what we pay for...if you want better, then vote with your
dollars and companies will hear you.
TMT
"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:51:01 -0600, "Leon" <[email protected]>
>>
>>"hot" water heater? I only need a "water heater". ;!) Iknow, I know,
>>it
>>reheats relatively hot water, but would a hot water heater work if it were
>>full of cold water?
>>
> Why would you want electric water, whether it be hot or cold?
LOL... good'n I would rather electric water than gassy water
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:51:01 -0600, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Leon" wrote:
>>
>>> Crap Lew, I am bored so I am going to come back with an answer that you
>>> are going to "owe me one" for. I'll be prepairing to duck.
>>>
>>> Why would I need an electric hot water heater? ;~)
>>
>>
>> I give up.
>>
>> Lew
>
>
>"hot" water heater? I only need a "water heater". ;!) Iknow, I know, it
>reheats relatively hot water, but would a hot water heater work if it were
>full of cold water?
>
Why would you want electric water, whether it be hot or cold?
On Dec 20, 6:34=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> David Nebenzahl wrote:
> > Do I get some kind of prize for such a long thread? A discount on a.h.r
> > (or wreck) merchandise specials? A special mention at next year's
> > Usenetties?
>
> Your cabal dues will be increased 50% in 2010 for all the bytes used,
> plus the appropriate carbon footprint tax ...
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 10/22/08
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
I have not been around here for very long.... but long enough to know
that there is no cabal.
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:35:46 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I wrote:
>
>>> Reliability was NOT my experience with a diesel Rabbit.
>
>"notbob" wrote:
>
>> They had great seat, though! ;)
>
>True.
>
>Same with the Opel and the "Bug".
>
>Lew
>
>
If you want REAL seats, you buy FRENCH. Renault seats were always
extremely comfortable - Peugeot and Citreon too.
The seats on my 49 bug?? Not terribly comfortable, but removing two
wingnuts gave you pretty good camping chairs.
They also subscribed to what used to be standard engineering practice. Make
it only as complicated as it needs to be.
"Nonny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> According to the book, "Small Wonder," the beetle was designed by Dr.
> Porsche and the basic design was so good that only refinements were made
> over its long manufacturing run. IMHO, if there's any secret to VW's
> beetle, it was that they got lots and lots of feedback from owners
> bringing the car in with the little glitches. If there was consistency to
> a glitch, like a door handle that kept breaking, VW would design a new and
> improved one and start using them. The product was continually refined
> and improved, within the limitations of the basic design or concept.
>
> I had an '71 Super Beetle and felt it was an excellent car if you
> overlooked the lack of heat in IN/MI winters. <grin>
>
> --
> Nonny
>
> ELOQUIDIOT (n) A highly educated, sophisticated,
> and articulate person who has absolutely no clue
> concerning what they are talking about.
> The person is typically a media commentator or politician.
>
>
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 22:07:48 -0600, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>Smitty Two wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Jules wrote:
>>>
>>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are
>>>> talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>>> spaceships.
>>
>> The Europeans have yet to make a reliable car.
>
>WHAT??? LOL ... surely you jest??
>
>Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient automobiles
>known to mankind, and to this day the best selling car in history, hit
>the ground running ... the "Volkswagen".
>
>Sheessh, it's sad, this total failure of the educational system and the
>resultant ignorance!
Reliable????????????
To a point.
But I worked a LOT on the few that were running around my home town in
the late 60s and early 70s. And for years after too.
I drove a 1949 Beetle - it didn't have enough power to hurt itself -
or even get out of it's own way - and it DID last a long time, with
regular and periodic infusions of sweat, cursing, and parts.
We had TWO 1500 squarebacks die on us in one week-long holiday and we
never did get to our destination.
"Nate Nagel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>> Smitty Two wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jules wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There
>>>>> are
>>>>> talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>>>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>>>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>>>> spaceships.
>>>
>>> The Europeans have yet to make a reliable car.
>>
>> Lookie what I just tripped over. A 4 wheeled self propelled British
>> bonfire. *snicker*
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/y8jrrhf
>>
>> TDD
>
> Odd then that I've had German cars as my daily drivers from roughly 1998
> up until four years ago (when I got a company car.) I miss my cheap
> German beaters, much higher quality and fewer annoyances than the brand
> new American cars I've been driving since.
>
> Still have the last of the beaters, a Porsche 944. If you told me I had
> to be halfway across the country as soon as possible, I'd prefer to drive
> that over the two year old Impala that shares driveway space with it.
> (today, that would be an even easier choice as I have snow tires on the
> Porsche but crappy all-seasons on the Impala)
>
> nate
>
I used to work for a Peugeot dealer many years ago. Peugeots were not too
bad, for European made cars. They actually had quite a few American parts in
them. The power steering pumps were Saginaws, right out of Michigan. We ship
them to France, the French paint Peugeot on them and they then cost three
times as much. Go figure.Their diesel engines will self-destruct if you over
heat them even once, but they will last a long time otherwise. Their gas
engine cars are pigs - absolute pigs. The gas powered 604 was a disastor.
Today they make the Ion. Can't find a parking spot? No problem, pick the car
up, fold it a few times and stick it in your pocket. Don't ever leave it
parked on a hill because it will start rolling. Not rolling on the wheels,
but rolling like a ball :)
My all time favorite was the Citroen. Back in the 60s they were not allowed
on base because they were such unsafe pieces of sh*t.
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "J. Clarke"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> As for European engineering in general, anybody who thinks that it's
>> all high quality hasn't fettled a brand new British-made Stanley
>> shoulder plane.
>
> Or owned a Fiat...
I'm the original owner of my 1973 Fiat 124 Spyder. It was my only car until
recently. It has been driven down steam beds in Mexico, over mountains,
across deserts, etc. It still runs and looks great. Biggest problem I've
had with it is "mechanics" screwing up stuff; surprising since it is so
mechanically simple but they manage.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
HeyBub wrote:
> notbob wrote:
>> On 2009-12-18, Lew Hodgett<[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Still gets 25 MPG.
>>
>> My old '62 Dodge Lancer with slant six and AT got 22mph on highway.
>>
>
> As long as we're bragging, my 1970 Ford Custom got 9mph.
>
> 'Course it had a police interceptor engine, a calibrated speedometer up to
> 140, an 8-quart crankcase, and, believe it or not, a DELCO alternator.
Hi,
So visiting every gas station along the way. More time spent filling up
than driving, Eh?!
On 2009-12-17, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> thickheaded cavilers who continue to harp on the exceptions to show
> their asses and ignorance.
....as opposed to baseless dogma spewed by narrow minded twits who
refuse to see beyond personal prejudices.
nb
J. Clarke wrote:
> HeyBub wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>
>>>> John Silber, former president of Boston College, was asked what one
>>>> thing could be done to improve the quality of education in America.
>>>> He answered: "Abolish colleges of education."
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds exactly like the typical "former" employee with an ax to
>>> grind would say.
>>>
>>> I'd say get rid of public education and all the bureaucracy that
>>> come with it. Privatize it.
>>
>> Yep. If universal education is felt to be a worthwhile goal, give out
>> vouchers.
>>
>> Oh, and before you shrug off John Silber as a disgruntled
>> ex-employee, you might check his Wikipedia entry. I just did and I
>> see I made a mistake: He was president of Boston University, not
>> College.
>
> FWIW, I have a friend who has a PhD in education, and is retired, not
> fired, so one can't claim that he is "disgruntled", who shares the
> opinion that the flaws in the system are inherent in the educational
> philosophy currently being taught in the colleges of education, and
> in the poltical tendency to require the schools to provide more and
> more social functions that are not rightly part of education.
It's worse than you think.
In America, we do not have a single living Nobel laureate or Fields
medalist, not even the president, who is qualified, by law, to teach in the
schools of my state. No winner of the Pulitzer, Booker, Hugo, Edgar,
Newberry, Caldecott or other literary prize. Nor can any of the justices of
the Supreme Court stand in front of a classroom as a teacher.
In my state, one can be certified to teach mathematics at the high-school
level without ever having had a college course in Calculus.
Pitiful really.
Does anyone doubt that a retired Civil Engineer could teach geometry off the
top of his head? Would you expect a retired nurse to be able to instruct in
high school biology? And so on. Well, they can't.
Makes one want to weep.
In article <[email protected]>,
Chris Friesen <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>However, going by various comments written by people in the industry,
>there also seems to be a cultural impetus to try and push the lower
>boundaries of the quality standards. So if a Chinese factory contracts
>for a given level of quality there is a tendency for that level to drop
>over time unless the company that hired them keeps on top of things.
Keeping on top of things is the key. A friend of mine had a product
made in China. He spec'ed fire-resistant plastic for the casing. As
soon as his back was turned, they switched to cheaper plastic and his
house (where he was storing his inventory) burned down as a result.
On the other hand, if you keep your own quality control inspectors
on site, you can get great stuff out of China. Apple's MacBook computers
are all made there, for instance.
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
David Nebenzahl wrote:
<snip>
> I predict the Chinese are following the same arc that the Japanese did
> after WWII, with variations, of course; there's no Marshall Plan, and
> the countries are vastly different. Nonetheless, I can forsee the day
> when "Made in China" is no longer a call for derision.
>
> By way of showing just how wrong people can be when predicting who's
> winning the industrial game, here's a hilariously and astoundingly wrong
> prediction about the Japanese and American photographic industries from
> 1946: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-136.html
In UK in the late 1950s already, when I was becoming seriously
interested in photography, I don't think any American cameras were
considered high quality. The really good stuff was Leica (German) and
Hasselblad (Swedish? -- both mucho expensivo). Praktica (E. German) was
OK. Some of the Japanese brands were coming onto the market, IIRC. I'm
not sure that Kodak was considered a serious photographer's camera.
Perce
HeyBub wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> Jules wrote:
>>
>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There
>>> are talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>>
>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>> spaceships.
>
> The Europeans built a spaceship? I think Flash Gordon was an
> American...
>
> Last I heard, the Europeans were trying to put up their own GPS
> satellite system - for reasons passing understanding.
As for European engineering in general, anybody who thinks that it's all
high quality hasn't fettled a brand new British-made Stanley shoulder plane.
In article <[email protected]>, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>As for European engineering in general, anybody who thinks that it's all
>high quality hasn't fettled a brand new British-made Stanley shoulder plane.
Or owned a Fiat...
David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 12/16/2009 3:03 PM Percival P. Cassidy spake thus:
>
>> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>>> By way of showing just how wrong people can be when predicting
>>> who's winning the industrial game, here's a hilariously and
>>> astoundingly wrong prediction about the Japanese and American
>>> photographic industries from 1946:
>>> http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-136.html
>>
>> In UK in the late 1950s already, when I was becoming seriously
>> interested in photography, I don't think any American cameras were
>> considered high quality. The really good stuff was Leica (German) and
>> Hasselblad (Swedish? -- both mucho expensivo). Praktica (E. German)
>> was OK. Some of the Japanese brands were coming onto the market,
>> IIRC. I'm not sure that Kodak was considered a serious
>> photographer's camera.
>
> Kodak did make some cameras used by serious photogs, even after the
> Japanese kicked our asses in that arena, but they were mostly obscure
> models used by specialists. Like their view (studio) cameras and
> lenses made for aerial photography, to name a couple. Their one
> top-of-the-line 35mm camera (the Ektra) was already out of production
> by that time.
> After that, about the best they could come up with were consumer-level
> cameras, like the Instamatic, which they did sell by the millions. But
> all high-quality stuff was, as you point out, either German (Leica,
> Voigtlander), Swedish (Hassy), or, mostly, Japanese (lessee: Nikon,
> Canon, Ricoh, Minolta, Miranda, Yashica, Olympus, Bronica, Fuji,
> etc., etc.
The high quality Japanese stuff came a decade or more after the high quality
German stuff. But then the Japanese did the thing that they do best,
fiddling with the design to see what people like and what people don't like,
and ended up eating the Germans' lunch--the Germans were so sure that they
knew the _right_ way to do things that they wouldn't fiddle around with the
design to compete with the Japanese. But the Germans still excel at optical
design--Panasonic and Sony both use the Germans for lens design.
In some markets though that approach didn't work, computers being one.
> The single exception I can think of is the Graflex press cameras
> (Crown and Speed Graphics), made here in the US and used around the
> world up through the 1970s.
"Edward A. Falk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Chris Friesen <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>However, going by various comments written by people in the industry,
>>there also seems to be a cultural impetus to try and push the lower
>>boundaries of the quality standards. So if a Chinese factory contracts
>>for a given level of quality there is a tendency for that level to drop
>>over time unless the company that hired them keeps on top of things.
>
> Keeping on top of things is the key. A friend of mine had a product
> made in China. He spec'ed fire-resistant plastic for the casing. As
> soon as his back was turned, they switched to cheaper plastic and his
> house (where he was storing his inventory) burned down as a result.
How did plastic casings which were not fire resistant cause his house to
burn down? One suspects there was a Lot of inflammable stuff in his house.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Tony Hwang" wrote:
>> Hmmm,
>> Made U.S.A. Made in EU" Really? 100%?
>> Economy stands on bottom line these days.
>> You can't fuck China, she is too big/powerful now.
>
> You don't usually fuck your banker or a big customer.
>
> Lew
>
>
>
A more apt analogy for China is our national cocaine dealer.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "J. Clarke"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>As for European engineering in general, anybody who thinks that it's all
>>high quality hasn't fettled a brand new British-made Stanley shoulder
>>plane.
>
> Or owned a Fiat...
Or an MG ...
CW wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> HeyBub wrote:
>>> Swingman wrote:
>>>> Jules wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less.
>>>>> There are talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>>>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>>>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers,
>>>> to spaceships.
>>>
>>> The Europeans built a spaceship? I think Flash Gordon was an
>>> American...
>>>
>>> Last I heard, the Europeans were trying to put up their own GPS
>>> satellite system - for reasons passing understanding.
>>
>> Tsk, tsk ... you get into space on "rockets", Bubba ... Wernher Von
>> Braun
>>
> Yes, the success of the American space program was due to imports.
> They imported Germany's best scientists.
So what percentage of the engineers working on Apollo were German?
Hint--go to Youtube and search on "Disney Moon" and you'll find that the
concept that Von Braun was pushing pre-Apollo was considerably different
from what actually flew (and before you make some ignorant sneering remark
about Disney, do the search and watch the episode).
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Smitty Two wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Jules wrote:
>>>
>>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There
>>>> are
>>>> talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>>> spaceships.
>>
>> The Europeans have yet to make a reliable car.
>
> WHAT??? LOL ... surely you jest??
>
> Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient automobiles known
> to mankind, and to this day the best selling car in history, hit the
> ground running ... the "Volkswagen".
Well, there was the little problem with the number three cylinder ...
Tony Hwang wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> Tony Hwang wrote:
>>
>>> You can't fuck China, she is too big/powerful now.
>>
>> When "she" starts making quality, innovative, well engineered tools like
>> Festool does I'll start buying Chinese. Until then, in a tool buying
>> sense, fuck China, and the US also ... just in case you think there is
>> discrimination involved.
>>
>> People who work with their hands know the difference ... keep that in
>> mind.
>>
> Hi,
> I am not Chinese, LOL!
>
I thought you were a Canuck, eh?
TDD
Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, J. Clarke
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> CW wrote:
>>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> HeyBub wrote:
>>>>> Swingman wrote:
>>>>>> Jules wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less.
>>>>>>> There are talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>>>>>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>>>>>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers,
>>>>>> to spaceships.
>>>>> The Europeans built a spaceship? I think Flash Gordon was an
>>>>> American...
>>>>>
>>>>> Last I heard, the Europeans were trying to put up their own GPS
>>>>> satellite system - for reasons passing understanding.
>>>> Tsk, tsk ... you get into space on "rockets", Bubba ... Wernher Von
>>>> Braun
>>>>
>>> Yes, the success of the American space program was due to imports.
>>> They imported Germany's best scientists.
>> So what percentage of the engineers working on Apollo were German?
>>
>> Hint--go to Youtube and search on "Disney Moon" and you'll find that the
>> concept that Von Braun was pushing pre-Apollo was considerably different
>> from what actually flew (and before you make some ignorant sneering remark
>> about Disney, do the search and watch the episode).
>
> A surprising number of the best NASA scientists and engineers came from
> Canada after the Avro Arrow project was canceled by the Diefenbaker
> Conservative government.
>
> <http://www.avroarrow.org/AvroArrow/Avroengineers.html>
Didn't they all come here to Alabamastan to work on them dang rockets?
TDD
RonB wrote:
> On Dec 16, 1:39 pm, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]> wrote:
>> This post is aimed at all you sinophobes out there.
>>
>> I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of
>> shit: what do you expect? It's made in China!".
>>
> Apparently some folks are having trouble with the concept of the
> current global economy; and the history of our own manufacturing
> problems.
>
> Today, there are relatively few items truly manufactured in USA,
> China, Japan, Mexico or anywhere. To slam a product just because it
> is made in Taiwan or China doesn't make sense anymore especially when
> you look at metal and woodworking tools sold by companies like
> Grizzly. Many of the parts and castings in "old American" products
> like Powermatic now come from the east. Much of the airframe and
> wiring in venerable aircraft like the Beech Bonanza and King Air are
> manufactured in Mexico and assembled in Kansas; avionics guts come
> from the east. Most electronic components used in fine old American
> TVs and audio components come from China, Japan or Korea.
>
> On the other side, a complete lapse in U.S. quality control, during
> the 1970's, allowed the Japanese to to run completely over the US auto
> industry. But now look at Toyota. They are building cars, to high
> standards, at several U.S. facilities. This is probably good because
> the high cost of maintaining union demands has all but shut down
> Detroit and other auto manufacturing centers. This is doubly tragic
> because Detroit was finally starting to build some quality cars again.
>
> The world is changing and made in ("anywhere") is a thing of the
> past. We have seen a strong trend toward survival of the fittest
> during the past year and those who can produce quality at a reasonable
> cost will probably win (or be taken over by government).
>
> My job is to take care of my business by buying the best I can with
> what I have. If I can buy the same quality and function for 20-40%
> less the decision is easy.
>
> RonB
>
When a country taxes and regulates business to death, what happens?
When labor unions become too big for their britches and so corrupt
that their behavior holds businesses hostage to their demands, the
business owners vote with their feet and go someplace else.
TDD
dgk wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:50:17 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Doug Miller wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>, "J. Clarke"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> As for European engineering in general, anybody who thinks that
>>>> it's all high quality hasn't fettled a brand new British-made
>>>> Stanley shoulder plane.
>>>
>>> Or owned a Fiat...
>>
>> I'm the original owner of my 1973 Fiat 124 Spyder. It was my only
>> car until recently. It has been driven down steam beds in Mexico,
>> over mountains, across deserts, etc. It still runs and looks great.
>> Biggest problem I've had with it is "mechanics" screwing up stuff;
>> surprising since it is so mechanically simple but they manage.
>
> Many years ago I had a Fiat 124 Spyder. I called it the Fiat 124
> Lemon. I did buy it used so perhaps it was just maintained terribly,
> but almost every other week something went wrong. The alternator died,
> the string operating the clutch broke, the transmission developed
> problems, and just endless crap.
>
> I guess it just depends on when it got put together.
I used to have an X1/9. Lovely little car, only repair I ever needed to
make on it other than routine maintenance was the thermostat. I'd likely
still be driving it if some asshole hadn't stolen it. Not at all like my
one Toyota, that had a single scheduled maintenance item--at 10,000 miles
replace engine.
Leon wrote:
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Your reefer may be in the same mode.
>
>
> Reefer? ;~)
Navy talk for "refrigerator".
Leon wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient automobiles
>> known to mankind, and to this day the best selling car in history,
>> hit the ground running ... the "Volkswagen".
>
> I will have to disagree with you there. Kim and I bought a new 99
> Jetta, it left her stranded on the freeway 3 times under warranty the
> first 18 months, and a dead battery replaced under warranty. That
> was the Mexico built vehicle. Towed into the dealership and "no
> problem found " on the 3 rd time we immediately traded for a German
> built 2000 Passat. We almost kept it 4 years. While we had it, it
> left Kim stranded 2 times, once was a faulty starter relay, the
> second time another dead battery replaced by me. Then there were
> numerous emissions problems, the need to replace both outer tie rod
> ends at 30K, and the heater core at 43K. The transmission was
> showing signs of failure. Traded for the 04 Accord at 47K. Both
> vehicles were serviced more often than recommended by the dealer.
> The 99 Jetta and 2000 Passat were serviced/oil changed at 3K VW
> recommended every 10K. After trading the Passat we got a factory
> letter rewording service intervals for the turbo, every 3K and with
> synthetic oil. I saw that coming.
>
> I bought the VW's on their past reputation.
>
> Maybe my first VW's were a fluke but I'll probably never buy another.
You folks who are going on about "Rabbits" and "Jettas" and suchlike are
missing the point.
THE Volkswagen, the Type I, aka the Beetle, aka the Porsche Type 60, was in
continuous production for over 60 years with more than 20 million built,
both the longest and largest production runs in automotive history.
>> Sheessh, it's sad, this total failure of the educational system and
>> the resultant ignorance!
>
> Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers
> that don't give a shit and that finally led to teachers that could
> not find a job any where else. Long ago when teachers could step in
> as a parent and administer discipline he or she could actually teach.
> We have lost teachers that actually taught for baby sitters.
Uh, you might want to actually get drunk with a few teachers sometime before
you blame them. They have to do what they can with what they've got and
what they've got these days isn't much (and I'm not talking about the kids,
I'm talking about the rules they are required to work under). Wanna fix
education, first shoot all the professors of education and all the school
boards.
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Some of the best cars I ever owned were early Mopars. I've owned 53,
> 57, 63, 69, 74, 76, 85, 88, and now a 2002.
A real glutton for punishment I see.
Lew
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 23:53:28 -0600, The Daring Dufas
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:46:02 -0800, "LDosser" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> In article <[email protected]>, "LDosser"
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318. Did most of my
>>>>> own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like was setting
>>>>> the
>>>>> points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm)
>>>> That'd be a pretty neat trick, considering that the distributor on a
>>>> slant-six
>>>> is half-way down the block on the passenger side, and the exhaust manifold
>>>> is
>>>> all the way at the top of the engine on the driver's side. You'd think
>>>> that
>>>> someone who'd done all that work on a slant-six would know where the
>>>> distributor is.
>>>
>>> Long arms. They say memory is the first to go ... Anyone know what the hell
>>> I was burning myself on?
>>
>> The edge of the rocker cover and the side of the cyl head. Or the oil
>> filter.
>>
>> I ALWAYS pulled the distributor to do points on Slant Sixes. ALWAYS
>> set to #1 TDC first too. And I did a LOT of them.
>>
>> My 170 always had the points set on a distributor machine to be sure
>> there was no bounce or float at 6500 RPM - always used the Blue Streak
>> High Performance points - the only kind that wouldn't either bounce,
>> float, or break the spring. (206 RWHP through the push-button
>> automatic at 6000 RPM ( 60+ in first, 90+ in second, and bury the
>> speedo in third)
>> It's the only car I've ever owned that I could redline in top gear.
>
>I built a 170 slant six that came out of a 64 Valiant and dropped it in
>a 65 Dart. I installed a 3/4 race cam and found the biggest one barrel
>Holly carburetor I could find and that car would do 60 in first and 100
>in second by holding the shifter in gear. It blew the stock muffler off
>so I installed one of those Thrush mufflers. I replaced the little 13"
>wheels with a set of 14 inchers and found a set of Firestone Grand Prix
>radial tires and a set of heavy duty shocks. I had to beat the lip of
>the front fenders out a little so the tires wouldn't rub. The car would
>take a corner so hard that it snapped a front hub out of a brake drum.
>At a wrecking yard, I found these huge finned drums and spindles on a
>V8 Dart and installed those which solved the breakage and braking
>problem. The car had a single master cylinder, ditched that and got
>a dual master cylinder from a van. What I loved about my Mopars is that
>I could get parts from different models and mix and match. It was a lot
>of fun. It's been about four decades since I had that six cylinder
>terror but I miss it more than any of them.
>
>TDD
Mine was in a '63 Valiant V100 Custom 4 door sedan. The rear springs
were sagged so I lowered the front torsion bars to level it and put in
the optional heavy duty shocks from the V* Formula S Cuda. Cornered
like it was on rails. Didn't matter what I put on it for exhaust,
within a week it sounded loud again - My parents could always hear me
coming down the hill into town unless I put it in neutral and let it
coast. Bottom end accelleration was pretty slow, but from 30 MPH
(about 3500RPM) up it was hard to catch!!! C70 13 tires handled the
road reasonably well - with studded snows in the winter.
Kid brother did up a 225 in a 65, with 2 barrel and split exhaust and
a fancy cam, 40 thou over, and it would burn rubber on takeoff, but
was about 20% slower at the top end. 104MPH was wound tight (about
5000 RPM)
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> Some of the best cars I ever owned were early Mopars. I've owned 53,
>> 57, 63, 69, 74, 76, 85, 88, and now a 2002.
>
> A real glutton for punishment I see.
>
> Lew
>
>
Meh? My ideal driveway for "drive it forever" cars would be filled with
50's Studebakers, 60's MoPars, and 80's VWs.
Sadly, IMHO cars hve gone downhill since the 80's in terms of durability
and user serviceability.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
[email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 23:53:28 -0600, The Daring Dufas
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:46:02 -0800, "LDosser" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> In article <[email protected]>, "LDosser"
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318. Did most of my
>>>>>> own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like was setting
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm)
>>>>> That'd be a pretty neat trick, considering that the distributor on a
>>>>> slant-six
>>>>> is half-way down the block on the passenger side, and the exhaust manifold
>>>>> is
>>>>> all the way at the top of the engine on the driver's side. You'd think
>>>>> that
>>>>> someone who'd done all that work on a slant-six would know where the
>>>>> distributor is.
>>>> Long arms. They say memory is the first to go ... Anyone know what the hell
>>>> I was burning myself on?
>>> The edge of the rocker cover and the side of the cyl head. Or the oil
>>> filter.
>>>
>>> I ALWAYS pulled the distributor to do points on Slant Sixes. ALWAYS
>>> set to #1 TDC first too. And I did a LOT of them.
>>>
>>> My 170 always had the points set on a distributor machine to be sure
>>> there was no bounce or float at 6500 RPM - always used the Blue Streak
>>> High Performance points - the only kind that wouldn't either bounce,
>>> float, or break the spring. (206 RWHP through the push-button
>>> automatic at 6000 RPM ( 60+ in first, 90+ in second, and bury the
>>> speedo in third)
>>> It's the only car I've ever owned that I could redline in top gear.
>> I built a 170 slant six that came out of a 64 Valiant and dropped it in
>> a 65 Dart. I installed a 3/4 race cam and found the biggest one barrel
>> Holly carburetor I could find and that car would do 60 in first and 100
>> in second by holding the shifter in gear. It blew the stock muffler off
>> so I installed one of those Thrush mufflers. I replaced the little 13"
>> wheels with a set of 14 inchers and found a set of Firestone Grand Prix
>> radial tires and a set of heavy duty shocks. I had to beat the lip of
>> the front fenders out a little so the tires wouldn't rub. The car would
>> take a corner so hard that it snapped a front hub out of a brake drum.
>> At a wrecking yard, I found these huge finned drums and spindles on a
>> V8 Dart and installed those which solved the breakage and braking
>> problem. The car had a single master cylinder, ditched that and got
>> a dual master cylinder from a van. What I loved about my Mopars is that
>> I could get parts from different models and mix and match. It was a lot
>> of fun. It's been about four decades since I had that six cylinder
>> terror but I miss it more than any of them.
>>
>> TDD
> Mine was in a '63 Valiant V100 Custom 4 door sedan. The rear springs
> were sagged so I lowered the front torsion bars to level it and put in
> the optional heavy duty shocks from the V* Formula S Cuda. Cornered
> like it was on rails. Didn't matter what I put on it for exhaust,
> within a week it sounded loud again - My parents could always hear me
> coming down the hill into town unless I put it in neutral and let it
> coast. Bottom end accelleration was pretty slow, but from 30 MPH
> (about 3500RPM) up it was hard to catch!!! C70 13 tires handled the
> road reasonably well - with studded snows in the winter.
>
> Kid brother did up a 225 in a 65, with 2 barrel and split exhaust and
> a fancy cam, 40 thou over, and it would burn rubber on takeoff, but
> was about 20% slower at the top end. 104MPH was wound tight (about
> 5000 RPM)
That 170 was a short stroke screamer, it would turn high RPMs all day
long and refused to die.
TDD
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:26:07 -0800, "LDosser" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318. Did most of
>>>>> my own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like was
>>>>> setting the points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm)
>>>>> and trying to start either if a neighborhood dog peed within a block or
>>>>> so while the engine was turning over ...
>>>>
>>>>
The points were on the opposite side of the engine from the exhaust,
so exhaust burns were NOT a possibility unless you were an orangutan.
I always set the engine to #1 TDC and pulled the distributor to do
points on my conventional ignition Slanties. On the 170 I had to - set
them up on the distributor machine to make sure they didn't bounce or
float at 6500RPM. Anything other than #1 TDC they were a royal pain
to get properly retimed.
>>>> They made a header for the slant 6??
They did - actually quite a few companies - but You didn't see many -
the warmup wirhout a heat rizer was pretty tricky in cold weather, and
carb icing was a real problem with any humidity at all.
Ignition was never a problem if you used good wires and caps - mine
would start with a garden hose running over the engine.
>>>
>>> Yes, but
>>>
>>> My bad. Head was thinking exhaust manifold and fingers were busy thinking
>>> about after market parts.
>>
>> Was your exhaust manifold cracked. IIRC that was a problem with that
>> engine. When cold the engine exhaust manifold was kinda noisy and
>> quietened up when it got hot.
>
The manifolds generally cracked when they were overtorqued trying to
stop a manifold gasket leak.
>No, but it was hot.
>
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here hold my beer and watch this!
>>>>
>>>> My buddy was given his mother's Beige 4 door 65 Dodge Coronet. Slant 6,
>>>> auto trans. That thing was full race and looked the part. OR NOT!.
>>>> One cold night we were out kinda late in Corpus Christi sipping on a
>>>> couple of large screw top bottles of beer. Brand, did not matter.
>>>
>>> If it was Lone Star ...
>>
>> I believe you are right.... MY BIL was the VP of the local Lone Star
>> distributorship.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> We were going down the freeway with darn little traffic so we are going
>>>> about 70.
>>>>
>>>> My buddy looked over at me and said, watch this. He reached up grabbed
>>>> the shift lever, and yanked it down all the way into low. The engine
>>>> roared and we suddenly slowed down.
>>>
They would not shift into low above about 58MPH, and even then you
needed to have your foot to the floor to do it.
>>> And?
>>
>> That's it the engine roared and we slowed down. That was an industrial
>> engine used on other applications other than automitive and they could be
>> abused. Back then was also when the Chrysler products had bullet proof
>> transmissions also. Remember the commericals where the guy floors the
>> accelerator pedal and does what my froend did except he goes from D to R
>> and back to D. Close up of the smokin rear tire shows it reversing
>> dirrections a couple of times.
The slant six was designed for the Valiant - and then used as an
industrial engine, truck engine, and base engine on just about
everything Chrysler built.
The dual pump automatics would take a real beating - but the
"fish-hook" trick generally only worked at speeds under 30MPH
(actually 20, IIRC) They would not engage reverse at higher speeds.
>>
>> That car was our "tank" It saw a lot of action in local farmers corn
>> fields.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:51:18 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"The Daring Dufas" wrote:
>
>> The secret was to carry an extra "dual ballast resistor" in the
>> glove
>> box for all the Mopars with the electronic ignition. I had several
>> go out and it was a 10 minute or less repair job.
>
>The real secret is not to get involved with a Chrysler POS.
>
>Lew
>
>
Some of the best cars I ever owned were early Mopars. I've owned 53,
57, 63, 69, 74, 76, 85, 88, and now a 2002.
The 69 was likely the best.
The 63 was a 170 slant six automatic Valiant done to the nines - went
like stink, idled poorly, and liked it's gas. The 69 was a 225
automatic, not as highly tuned. Not as fast, and not as thirsty.
The '74 was also a 225 automatic, basically stock - a 25mpg highway
car.
The 76 was a 318 Ramcharger - need I say more?? The 85 was a 2.6 Mitsu
that I rebuilt - engine was still running 8 years later (in another
car).
The 88 was a 3.0 Mitsu - it had 3 sets of heads over it's 240,000km
lifespan before I sold it - still running and looking fantastic at 18
years of age.
The 2002 is a PT Cruiser.
The 57 was a 261 Flathead 6 in a Fargo Pickup. The 53 was a 241 Red
Ram Hemi in a Coronet Sierra 2 door wagon - sure wish I still had that
one!!!!!
RonB wrote:
> On Dec 16, 9:37 pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "RonB" wrote:
>>
>> Much of the airframe and
>> wiring in venerable aircraft like the Beech Bonanza and King Air are
>> manufactured in Mexico and assembled in Kansas; avionics guts come
>> from the east.
>> ------------------------------------------
>> "Beech Bonanza", or as described to me by a pilot in Tulsa, "Split
>> tailed doctor killer".
>>
>> Lew
>
> On the bright side, lawyers fly too.
>
> The old V-tail is a good airplane but you can't overcome perception so
> the went conventional.
>
> The truth is, if anyone dies in an airplane, the manufacturer WILL BE
> SUED. Back in the late 80's I was told that the first $80K of any
> aircraft product price was built-in litigation expense. If you take
> off with a near empty gas tank, no oil, drunk as a skunk and fly into
> a box canyon; they still come after the manufacturer. We usually win
> those, but spent millions keeping up with it. Even military products
> collected lawyers.
Parachutes the same. Somebody jumped over the Pacific, drunk as a skunk,
had a good chute, and at 200 feet hit the quick-release that is intended to
allow one to quickly detach a fouled canopy so that the reserve can be used.
The lawyers contended that the chute should have had a label warning about
use while intoxicated.
>
> RonB
Smitty Two wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Leon wrote:
>> Snip
>>
>>>>
>>>> I bought the VW's on their past reputation.
>>>
>>> The "Volkswagen", the original design, is what I was talking about.
>>> Not the price point engineered models they started making to woo
>>> and placate the American consumer with the junk they prefer.
>>
>> Exactly!
>>
>>
>
> The original VW bug was inexpensive to buy, and relatively inexpensive
> to repair. That is hardly the same as being reliable.
However since there was so little to it, it tended to be reliable as
well--there just wan't much on it that could break.
Leon wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Leon wrote:
> Snip
>
>>>
>>> I bought the VW's on their past reputation.
>>
>> The "Volkswagen", the original design, is what I was talking about.
>> Not the price point engineered models they started making to woo and
>> placate the American consumer with the junk they prefer.
>
> Exactly!
With regard to the "price point engineered models", those were not any
cheaper to produce than the original Beetle--the reason they exist is that
it was impossible to make the Beetle meet US emission and safety regulations
without a major redesign (it was designed in 1936, remember--by the '60s it
had already had a really good run). And the Beetle itself had been "price
point engineered" from the outset.
Smitty Two wrote:
> I did own an Audi once. Worst car I've ever owned in terms of
> reliability. Made by VW. I had a g.f. years ago who had a Karmann Ghia,
> and it was a piece of junk, too. Then I had a g.f. with a Jetta, also
> crap. Have a friend who bought one of those new VW bugs a few years ago
> and it began to disintegrate at about 80k. Have a friend who owned an
> original bug for 25 years, and loved it, but it was in the shop every
> 3-4 months. (He didn't have a frame of reference to see that as an
> issue.)
Two friends have/had between them three fairly recent Audis. The
transmission in one just "blew up." A year or two back on "Car Talk"
somebody called to report that his Audi (either A4 or A6; I no longer
remember which) was burning a quart of oil every 1000 miles and the
dealer said not to worry about it.
Perce
Smitty Two wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> You folks who are going on about "Rabbits" and "Jettas" and suchlike
>> are missing the point.
>>
>> THE Volkswagen, the Type I, aka the Beetle, aka the Porsche Type 60,
>> was in continuous production for over 60 years with more than 20
>> million built, both the longest and largest production runs in
>> automotive history.
>
> Completely irrelevant to the issue of reliability.
Please show me where the word "reliability" appears in the quotation to
which you were responding.
Nonny wrote:
> According to the book, "Small Wonder," the beetle was designed by Dr.
> Porsche and the basic design was so good that only refinements were made
> over its long manufacturing run. IMHO, if there's any secret to VW's
> beetle, it was that they got lots and lots of feedback from owners
> bringing the car in with the little glitches. If there was consistency
> to a glitch, like a door handle that kept breaking, VW would design a
> new and improved one and start using them. The product was continually
> refined and improved, within the limitations of the basic design or
> concept.
>
> I had an '71 Super Beetle and felt it was an excellent car if you
> overlooked the lack of heat in IN/MI winters. <grin>
ISTR hearing a long time ago, that when VW asked for an independent
evaluation of the design, the only suggestion made was to increase the
size of the rear window -- which they did, of course.
Perce
Nonny wrote:
> According to the book, "Small Wonder," the beetle was designed by Dr.
> Porsche and the basic design was so good that only refinements were made
> over its long manufacturing run. IMHO, if there's any secret to VW's
> beetle, it was that they got lots and lots of feedback from owners
> bringing the car in with the little glitches. If there was consistency
> to a glitch, like a door handle that kept breaking, VW would design a
> new and improved one and start using them. The product was continually
> refined and improved, within the limitations of the basic design or
> concept.
>
> I had an '71 Super Beetle and felt it was an excellent car if you
> overlooked the lack of heat in IN/MI winters. <grin>
>
I thought there was a gasoline burning heater option for cold climate
VW Bugs.
TDD
Nonny wrote:
> According to the book, "Small Wonder," the beetle was designed by
> Dr. Porsche and the basic design was so good that only refinements
> were made over its long manufacturing run. IMHO, if there's any
> secret to VW's beetle, it was that they got lots and lots of
> feedback from owners bringing the car in with the little glitches.
> If there was consistency to a glitch, like a door handle that kept
> breaking, VW would design a new and improved one and start using
> them. The product was continually refined and improved, within
> the limitations of the basic design or concept.
>
> I had an '71 Super Beetle and felt it was an excellent car if you
> overlooked the lack of heat in IN/MI winters. <grin>
Super Beetle was a lesser beast though. Might have had better front
suspension geometry but it paid a price in repairability.
David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 12/17/2009 5:01 AM dadiOH spake thus:
>
>> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>>> The single exception I can think of is the Graflex press cameras
>>> (Crown and Speed Graphics), made here in the US and used around the
>>> world up through the 1970s.
>>
>> Thank heavens they expired :)
>
> Why do you say that?
>
> I still say that the Crown Graphic (which I have) is the single best
> cost-effective way for people to break into large-format (4x5)
> photography, even at this late date. They're still available on eBay
> for very reasonable prices, along with fantastic lenses. They may not
> be all one would want in a view camera: limited movements, no
> rotating back, etc. But compared to the Lexuses and Mercedes of LF
> cameras, relatively speaking, they're a great deal. And they were
> extremely well-made.
>
> The next step would be a Busch press camera, also American-made.
And after Graflex went under, Sakai bought the tooling and continued to make
them for another decade or so in Japan as the Toyo Super Graphic.
I used to think that such things were quaint anachronisms until I found out
what they could do. Never got into large format myself but one of these
days . . .
Leon wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Leon wrote:
>>> Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers
>>> that don't give a shit and that finally led to teachers that could
>>> not find a job any where else. Long ago when teachers could step in
>>> as a parent and administer discipline he or she could actually teach.
>>> We have lost teachers that actually taught for baby sitters.
>> Uh, you might want to actually get drunk with a few teachers sometime
>> before
>> you blame them. They have to do what they can with what they've got and
>> what they've got these days isn't much (and I'm not talking about the
>> kids,
>> I'm talking about the rules they are required to work under). Wanna fix
>> education, first shoot all the professors of education and all the school
>> boards.
>>
>
> It may differ with location but for the most part the teachers you are
> describing are what we had 20 years ago, but not in Houston today. Today
> they are asking "how to do" from the kids.
> I know it is not their fault, the teachers, for the most part the good ones
> are long since gone.
> And they are gone because they no longer want to be baby sitters instead of
> maintaining discipline and actually teaching. Teaching should also be
> considered a part of how a child is taught to act and to respect others.
> That does not happen any more.
> While I agree the restrictions/cigarettes was the root of the problem. That
> problem has decayed enough that we now can only get baby sitters/the cancer,
> to hold positions for any length of time. Any decent new teacher typically
> becomes a bad one or leaves the system. The problem is through out the
> whole education system now.
>
>
> The HS my son went to was an exception to the norm, that school had "good"
> teachers and there was not a discipline problem. That public HS was by
> invitation only. The only requirement to be invited to attend that school
> was that you needed to have a "Satisfactory" average, for conduct, that's
> it. If a student became a discipline problem they were warned once and the
> second time transferred to one of the other HS's in the district.
>
> When my son began at that HS the school had grades 9-12. In all four grade
> levels there were only 650 students. I would estimate that in the other 3
> HS's that there were in excess of 10K and that is a very conservative
> estimate. Out of all of those students approximately 150 were invited each
> year to attend Kerr HS.
>
> Kerr HS taught the kids how to prepare for college every day. There was no
> week off to study for the TAAS test, which is a Texas thing to judge how the
> students are coming along for their grade level. His middle school took a
> week every year to review for that test. IIRC the year my son graduated 95%
> of the students had been accepted to a college. IIRC 87% of those students
> had been awarded scholarships of $15K or more.
>
> I'm certain that the education that my son received at Kerr HS played a very
> major roll in him transitioning so smoothly into college. I recall the
> 10th graders mentoring the incoming 9th graders and most of them were high
> achievers. Life transitioning into Kerr HS was a bigger challenge for my
> son than going from that HS into college. I am also certain that Kerr HS
> played a major part in my son getting into the Honors College his first year
> at the university and graduating with a 4 year average GPA of 3.87.
>
Shhhhh! Don't let the current administration or its minions know about
that school, they'll claim it's not fair and find some way to destroy
it. Good going for your son and the parents who raised such a fine young
man, I know you're proud. I wish more school systems would separate the
wheat from the chaff. The chaff doesn't necessarily have to be thrown
away, perhaps a boot camp or two could turn it into something useful.
TDD
[email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:57:35 -0800, Smitty Two
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Jules wrote:
>>>
>>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are
>>>> talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>>> spaceships.
>> The Europeans have yet to make a reliable car.
>
> Au Contraire - they make VERY reliable cars. You can rely on them to
> make trouble when they are most needed.
>
> That said, one of the least troublesome cars I ever owned - and the
> price was definitely right on top of it all, was a 1972 Vauxhaul Viva
> HC - sold in Canada as the Pontiac Firenza. I bought it for $250 in
> 1979 when it was traded for a new Lada
> It took the typical British "fondling it's nuts" on a semi-regular
> basis, but the only breakdown I suffered with it was when the timing
> belt broke heading south out of Sydney Nova Scotia - fixed at the side
> of the road - and the regulator died the next day just North of
> Halifax.
Did it have Lucas electrics?
TDD
In article <[email protected]>,
LDosser <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Keeping on top of things is the key. A friend of mine had a product
>> made in China. He spec'ed fire-resistant plastic for the casing. As
>> soon as his back was turned, they switched to cheaper plastic and his
>> house (where he was storing his inventory) burned down as a result.
>
>How did plastic casings which were not fire resistant cause his house to
>burn down? One suspects there was a Lot of inflammable stuff in his house.
No more than usual. I'm not up on the exact details of the fire, other
than his claim that if the factory had built them as he spec'ed, the
fire would not have spread. Obviously, other factors were involved.
He had to issue a recall on the product, and was not happy.
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I wrote:
>
>>> Reliability was NOT my experience with a diesel Rabbit.
>
> "notbob" wrote:
>
>> They had great seat, though! ;)
>
> True.
>
> Same with the Opel and the "Bug".
>
> Lew
I got badly rear ended in my bug (64) and the seat did exactly what Ralph
Nader said it would do - broke loose from the tracks.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Leon" wrote:
>>
>>> I replaced my electric water heater early in 2004. Looking at the
>>> efficiency label on the old water heater and comparing to the new $300
>>> water heater installed by me, I determined that it would pay for itself
>>> in less than 2 years.
>>
>> Does your utility offer discount rates for an electric hot water heater
>> that operates only during off peak hours?
>
> Not yet! Before deregulation in TX I participated in a pilot program
> with our only source for electricity. In 1995 they installed the fancy
> programmable/hooked up to a modem central air thermostat. They also
> installed a switch on the WH that was controlled by the central air
> thermostat. During the Summer months I paid as little as 2.4 cents at
> night, 3.4 cents in the late mornings, 12 cents in the afternoon and 6.5
> cents early evening. Summer weekends an all Winter long never over 6.5
> cents. The thermostac would control "what worked when" and inside
> temperatures according to pricing tiers during the day and to what I
> decided should be done at those points. Daily the thermostat would read
> the digital electric meter and "phone home" the information concerning my
> usage. At any time I could see how many KWh I had used for the day, week,
> and month. I cold also see what the electricity had cost me for those
> time periods and a projected estimated bill for the month. I LOVED IT!
>
> I have not seen any thing like it since. However over the next 10 years
> the Utility company is going to replace all the electric meters with
> digital ones, like I had 15 years ago. Perhaps then I can get back on a
> plan.
PGE recently replaced our analog meter with a digital one. So far it does
not 'phone home' to me and I only look at it when taking out the trash, but
the odd thing is my usage dropped by about ten percent since they put it in.
No changes at all in appliances or usage. I'm becoming very suspicious that
a faulty analog meter or reader's eyeballs have been charging me an extra
ten percent for years.
"Edward A. Falk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> LDosser <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Keeping on top of things is the key. A friend of mine had a product
>>> made in China. He spec'ed fire-resistant plastic for the casing. As
>>> soon as his back was turned, they switched to cheaper plastic and his
>>> house (where he was storing his inventory) burned down as a result.
>>
>>How did plastic casings which were not fire resistant cause his house to
>>burn down? One suspects there was a Lot of inflammable stuff in his house.
>
> No more than usual. I'm not up on the exact details of the fire, other
> than his claim that if the factory had built them as he spec'ed, the
> fire would not have spread. Obviously, other factors were involved.
>
> He had to issue a recall on the product, and was not happy.
Understatement!
Leon wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Leon wrote:
>>>
>>> Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers
>>> that don't give a shit and that finally led to teachers that could
>>> not find a job any where else. Long ago when teachers could step
>>> in as a parent and administer discipline he or she could actually
>>> teach. We have lost teachers that actually taught for baby sitters.
>>
>> Uh, you might want to actually get drunk with a few teachers sometime
>> before
>> you blame them. They have to do what they can with what they've got
>> and what they've got these days isn't much (and I'm not talking
>> about the kids,
>> I'm talking about the rules they are required to work under). Wanna
>> fix education, first shoot all the professors of education and all
>> the school boards.
>>
>
> It may differ with location but for the most part the teachers you are
> describing are what we had 20 years ago, but not in Houston today.
> Today they are asking "how to do" from the kids.
Not sure what you mean by "asking how to do", however in some districts
teachers are forbidden to actually teach subject matter--they are
constrained when a kid asks a question to "facilitate" the kid looking it up
for himself and disciplinary action will be taken against them if they
actually get caught answering the question.
> I know it is not their fault, the teachers, for the most part the
> good ones are long since gone.
> And they are gone because they no longer want to be baby sitters
> instead of maintaining discipline and actually teaching. Teaching
> should also be considered a part of how a child is taught to act and
> to respect others. That does not happen any more.
> While I agree the restrictions/cigarettes was the root of the
> problem.
I don't understand what you think cigarettes have to do with anything. As
for restrictions, it's not just "restrictions", its a whole mass of
bureaucrat-mandated bullshit.
> That problem has decayed enough that we now can only get
> baby sitters/the cancer, to hold positions for any length of time.
> Any decent new teacher typically becomes a bad one or leaves the
> system. The problem is through out the whole education system now.
However the teachers are not the cause. They don't make the decisions.
They don't make the policies.
You could staff the schools with a who's who of American leadership and they
wouldn't be any better than they are now because they'd be operating under
the same rules.
When there's something wrong with a huge organization, it's not the peons at
the bottom who are causing it.
> The HS my son went to was an exception to the norm, that school had
> "good" teachers and there was not a discipline problem.
And this is symptomatic of the problem. Every parent knows that the schools
are broken, but the one that their little darling went to was an exception.
> That public
> HS was by invitation only. The only requirement to be invited to
> attend that school was that you needed to have a "Satisfactory"
> average, for conduct, that's it. If a student became a discipline
> problem they were warned once and the second time transferred to one
> of the other HS's in the district.
So the teachers at that school weren't any better than the ones in the other
schools, they just made the problem kids somebody else's problem. So do you
think that those same teachers would have done nearly as well at one of the
other schools?
> When my son began at that HS the school had grades 9-12. In all four
> grade levels there were only 650 students. I would estimate that in
> the other 3 HS's that there were in excess of 10K and that is a very
> conservative estimate. Out of all of those students approximately
> 150 were invited each year to attend Kerr HS.
And from that you conclude that the _teachers_ at those other schools are
the problem?
> Kerr HS taught the kids how to prepare for college every day. There
> was no week off to study for the TAAS test, which is a Texas thing to
> judge how the students are coming along for their grade level. His
> middle school took a week every year to review for that test. IIRC
> the year my son graduated 95% of the students had been accepted to a
> college. IIRC 87% of those students had been awarded scholarships of
> $15K or more.
And this is because the teachers were so brilliant you think.
>
> I'm certain that the education that my son received at Kerr HS played
> a very major roll in him transitioning so smoothly into college. I
> recall the 10th graders mentoring the incoming 9th graders and most
> of them were high achievers. Life transitioning into Kerr HS was a
> bigger challenge for my son than going from that HS into college. I
> am also certain that Kerr HS played a major part in my son getting
> into the Honors College his first year at the university and
> graduating with a 4 year average GPA of 3.87.
And all of this you attribute to the excellence of the teachers and not to
the district policies that allowed the school to cherry-pick students?
Jules wrote:
> I've had a major hankering after a first-generation Celica for a few
> months... I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing!
I don't know which generation was which year, but when I came to the US
from Australia at the end of 1977, I saw Celicas that looked
considerably different from - and inferior to -- the ones I had been
seeing in Australia for the past year or two. The internals might have
been the same, but I much preferred the styling of the Australian ones.
Perce
Cartoon:
"Mind if I smoke?"
"Mind if I burn some plastic?"
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
=================================
Reformed smokers (Me) are the worst.
Have a supply of business card size handouts that read:
"Let's make a deal:
You don't smoke and I won't fart".
Lew
More challenging, yet, to pronounce those names! I'm sure
the native born Germans do it with very little effort, but
their babies probably aren't fluent until they master
language skills about age of 25 or so. American kids can say
"tookie!" by three or so, but German kids have to wait till
age 9 to say
"vesterveeetenbrznsksixenneeffersonskkinzvichmettersvinksintinschinscherzveerbroatten"
which translates roughly as "tookie" in English.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Between Regensburg and Nurnberg, lived in Darshofen. Battery
in
Hohenfels, Battalion HQ in Grafenwoehr ... winter
training/R&R in
Garmisch, tough duty, that!
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Having owned four Chryslers (three with V8-318, and one with
slant 6-215 CED engine) I nominate them for the POS
category, also.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
RE: Subject
Having owned two (2) Beetles and a diesel Rabbit, POS comes
to mind as
an apt description of VW product.
Lew
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:31:35 GMT, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2009-12-18, Stormin Mormon <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Interesting idea. I've used heavier oils, or STP oil
>> treatment.
>
>The old-timer's trick was to change to paraffin-based oil. It would
>slow the leak and any smoking way down. This was always a last ditch
>solution to an old tired engine needing rebuild cuz it would sludge up
>an engine beyond belief and could never return to reg oils. I doubt
>you can even find/buy paraffin-based oil, anymore.
>
>nb
Quaker state and Pennzoil are still made from parrafin base stock I
believe. Perhaps not exclusively, but Pensylvania crude is parrafin.
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:23:03 -0600, Jules
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 09:07:55 -0500, clare wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 08:38:28 -0500, Nate Nagel <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Some of the best cars I ever owned were early Mopars. I've owned 53,
>>>>> 57, 63, 69, 74, 76, 85, 88, and now a 2002.
>>>>
>>>> A real glutton for punishment I see.
>>>>
>>>> Lew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Meh? My ideal driveway for "drive it forever" cars would be filled with
>>>50's Studebakers, 60's MoPars, and 80's VWs.
>>>
>>>Sadly, IMHO cars hve gone downhill since the 80's in terms of durability
>>>and user serviceability.
>>>
>>>nate
>>
>> Definitely downhill on serviceability, but thankfully they require a
>> lot less.
>
>Yes, but they make up for it by often costing a small fortune when
>something *does* go wrong...
Not so much now. It's not like the '80s with the GM "computer
controlled" carburetors. I had to replace all of the spark coils (two
at a time - they wouldn't replace them all the first time) on the '00
Sable. It was a couple of hundred each time, but that's not so bad.
I did spend $3K on my '01 Ranger, but that was everything from breaks,
to break lines, transmission lines, radiator, and whatever. The
Vermont salt got to them and the Alabama summer finished them off.
>... plus I like keeping it simple; if something does go wrong when
>I'm out in the middle of nowhere, there's more chance I can fix it
>by the roadside in an older vehicle than a modern one. I like that
>safety and convenience.
The more chance you'll have to. I *like* fuel injection and all of
that. The only repairs I've ever had to make to a fuel injection
system was a leaking distribution rail in my Vision and that was under
a (silent) recall. My '78 Granada went through at least a carb a
year. While it was usually only $100 to fix, $100 was a lot more
money then and fuel on the windshield wasn't a nice feeling ("I don't
believe it's supposed to do that").
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 11:07:22 -0600, krw wrote:
>>> Definitely downhill on serviceability, but thankfully they require a
>>> lot less.
>>
>>Yes, but they make up for it by often costing a small fortune when
>>something *does* go wrong...
>
> Not so much now. It's not like the '80s with the GM "computer
> controlled" carburetors. I had to replace all of the spark coils (two
> at a time - they wouldn't replace them all the first time) on the '00
> Sable. It was a couple of hundred each time, but that's not so bad.
Well, I suppose a lot of the cost these days is in the labor to fix it, so
if you can do stuff yourself you save a lot - but the parts on more modern
vehicles that do go wrong always seem to be more complicated and therefore
more expensive to me.
>>... plus I like keeping it simple; if something does go wrong when I'm
>>out in the middle of nowhere, there's more chance I can fix it by the
>>roadside in an older vehicle than a modern one. I like that safety and
>>convenience.
>
> The more chance you'll have to. I *like* fuel injection and all of
> that. The only repairs I've ever had to make to a fuel injection system
> was a leaking distribution rail in my Vision and that was under a
> (silent) recall.
I have issues with any computer-controlled stuff, though. If it was
accessible, they gave me full schematics and a copy of the firmware then I
wouldn't mind; I can fix it myself if it does break. But I really don't
like stuff that's "black boxed" like that and considered not to be field
servicable.
Agreed on the "mechanical" side of FI, though - definitely better than a
carb (although I've stripped and restored a few carbs now and they're not
too bad and *should* work for a long time before they next need to be
messed with).
>My '78 Granada went through at least a carb a year.
How come? Was that a known bad design, or was something else causing the
failure (the fuel used, lack of fuel line filter etc.)? I suppose it does
matter how many miles you were putting on it, but I'd expect a good carb
to go for close on 100k miles before needing major surgery.
(I'm starting to feel sorry for all these woodworking folk putting up with
this thread :-)
cheers
Jules
I doubt that reading high would last for ten years.
Eventually, some meter reader would perform actual reading,
and that would be the end of the schtick.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"LDosser" <[email protected]>
wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
PGE recently replaced our analog meter with a digital one.
So far it does
not 'phone home' to me and I only look at it when taking out
the trash, but
the odd thing is my usage dropped by about ten percent since
they put it in.
No changes at all in appliances or usage. I'm becoming very
suspicious that
a faulty analog meter or reader's eyeballs have been
charging me an extra
ten percent for years.
I sense a US business man who is not at all pleased with the
Chinese at the moment.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
> Keeping on top of things is the key. A friend of mine had
> a product
> made in China. He spec'ed fire-resistant plastic for the
> casing. As
> soon as his back was turned, they switched to cheaper
> plastic and his
> house (where he was storing his inventory) burned down as
> a result.
>
Jules wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:10:58 -0800, Nonny wrote:
>
>> According to the book, "Small Wonder," the beetle was designed by
>> Dr. Porsche
>
> I believe he "borrowed" a lot of the design from Tatra, though.
And in 1961 VW paid Tatra 3 million DM for that use.
>> IMHO, if there's any secret
>> to VW's beetle, it was that they got lots and lots of feedback from
>> owners bringing the car in with the little glitches.
>
> I don't think it was even that - they just kept the design
> mechanically simple and made it easy to swap parts out when needed.
Yep. Ferdinand Porsche and Ed Heinemann would have gotten along--simplify
and add lightness,.
>
> Re. windows, I think the rear split-screen ones were the earliest
> ones - in the 50s they dropped the split, and soon after that made
> the rear window a lot bigger.
>
> cheers
>
> Jules
HeyBub wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>> John Silber, former president of Boston College, was asked what one
>>> thing could be done to improve the quality of education in America.
>>> He answered: "Abolish colleges of education."
>>>
>>
>> Sounds exactly like the typical "former" employee with an ax to grind
>> would say.
>>
>> I'd say get rid of public education and all the bureaucracy that
>> come with it. Privatize it.
>
> Yep. If universal education is felt to be a worthwhile goal, give out
> vouchers.
>
> Oh, and before you shrug off John Silber as a disgruntled
> ex-employee, you might check his Wikipedia entry. I just did and I
> see I made a mistake: He was president of Boston University, not
> College.
FWIW, I have a friend who has a PhD in education, and is retired, not fired,
so one can't claim that he is "disgruntled", who shares the opinion that the
flaws in the system are inherent in the educational philosophy currently
being taught in the colleges of education, and in the poltical tendency to
require the schools to provide more and more social functions that are not
rightly part of education.
To keep the poodles from vomitting?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
"Robatoy" wrote:
I once met a beautiful French woman. I was fascinated by her
beauty...till I saw the hairy armpits and legs and smelled
the
Gauloises on her clothes.
=================================
Ever wonder why perfume is a French thing?
Lew
Nonny wrote:
>
> "The Daring Dufas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Nonny wrote:
>>> According to the book, "Small Wonder," the beetle was designed by Dr.
>>> Porsche and the basic design was so good that only refinements were
>>> made over its long manufacturing run. IMHO, if there's any secret to
>>> VW's beetle, it was that they got lots and lots of feedback from
>>> owners bringing the car in with the little glitches. If there was
>>> consistency to a glitch, like a door handle that kept breaking, VW
>>> would design a new and improved one and start using them. The
>>> product was continually refined and improved, within the limitations
>>> of the basic design or concept.
>>>
>>> I had an '71 Super Beetle and felt it was an excellent car if you
>>> overlooked the lack of heat in IN/MI winters. <grin>
>>>
>>
>> I thought there was a gasoline burning heater option for cold climate
>> VW Bugs.
>>
>> TDD
>
> There was a gas heater option for one that came out a few years after
> mine, but it was for a top of the line VW sedan, as I recall. If I'd
> heard of a heater option for my '71, I sure as the dickens would have
> gotten it. <grin>
>
I think I saw them in the J C Whitney auto parts catalog years ago.
Those guys carried everything in the world for vehicles back then.
TDD
Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Having owned four Chryslers (three with V8-318, and one with
> slant 6-215 CED engine) I nominate them for the POS
> category, also.
Our '02 Chrysler 300M has done 95K miles and has been very reliable. Our
'96 Dodge Stratus ES (Mitsushitty engine), however, was a whole 'nother
story.
Perce
Having lost sight of our objectives, we redoubled our
efforts (funding).
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]>
wrote in message news:[email protected]...
FWIW, I have a friend who has a PhD in education, and is
retired, not fired,
so one can't claim that he is "disgruntled", who shares the
opinion that the
flaws in the system are inherent in the educational
philosophy currently
being taught in the colleges of education, and in the
poltical tendency to
require the schools to provide more and more social
functions that are not
rightly part of education.
When one is under four years old, that's what it sounds when
said child asks for "cookie".
The slightly longer word is what German kids have to learn,
usually by age 9, to get fed.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
> "vesterveeetenbrznsksixenneeffersonskkinzvichmettersvinksintinschinscherzveerbroatten"
> which translates roughly as "tookie" in English.
Sorry, a search of my mind and neither term resulted a
document.
I'll bite ... besides, some cRapper, what's a "tookie"?
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
JC Whitney was also known to mess up orders, and be
completely unresponsive about repairing the mess up. Just
one man's experience.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"The Daring Dufas" <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
>
> There was a gas heater option for one that came out a few
> years after
> mine, but it was for a top of the line VW sedan, as I
> recall. If I'd
> heard of a heater option for my '71, I sure as the dickens
> would have
> gotten it. <grin>
>
I think I saw them in the J C Whitney auto parts catalog
years ago.
Those guys carried everything in the world for vehicles back
then.
TDD
Mine were 1974 Dodge Dart, 1980 Dodge van "green one", and
1979 Dodge van "white one". Think the next was 1985 "white
two". After my first Dodge, I swore I'd never buy another.
Three more Dodges later, I've succeeded. Now have two
Chevrolet products that I drive.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Percival P. Cassidy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Having owned four Chryslers (three with V8-318, and one
> with
> slant 6-215 CED engine) I nominate them for the POS
> category, also.
Our '02 Chrysler 300M has done 95K miles and has been very
reliable. Our
'96 Dodge Stratus ES (Mitsushitty engine), however, was a
whole 'nother
story.
Perce
Leon wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> FWIW, I have a friend who has a PhD in education, and is retired, not
>> fired,
>> so one can't claim that he is "disgruntled", who shares the opinion
>> that the
>> flaws in the system are inherent in the educational philosophy
>> currently being taught in the colleges of education, and in the
>> poltical tendency to require the schools to provide more and more
>> social functions that are not rightly part of education.
>>
>
> So what was he doing to remedy the situation?
What do you think he _can_ do? It's easy to recognize that the carrier is
aground. Getting it off the rocks is a lot harder.
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Having owned four Chryslers (three with V8-318, and one with
> slant 6-215 CED engine) I nominate them for the POS
> category, also.
I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318. Did most of my
own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like was setting the
points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm) and trying to
start either if a neighborhood dog peed within a block or so while the
engine was turning over ...
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
>
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> RE: Subject
>
> Having owned two (2) Beetles and a diesel Rabbit, POS comes
> to mind as
> an apt description of VW product.
>
> Lew
>
>
>
>
>
>
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c28915ce-b539-4e86-aeb5-a58c44360ec3@m38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 17, 5:26 pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" wrote:
> > The French are not stupid.
>
> When it comes to doing business, the Germans can be difficult but the
> French are impossible.
>
> Lew
I once met a beautiful French woman. I was fascinated by her
beauty...till I saw the hairy armpits and legs and smelled the
Gauloises on her clothes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, the wretched Gaulois will really put you off. Whole metro system
smelled like that. And stale wine.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Robatoy wrote:
>
>> I once met a beautiful French woman. I was fascinated by her
>> beauty...till I saw the hairy armpits and legs and smelled the
>> Gauloises on her clothes.
>
> Early 70's Germany, bathes taken once a week, maybe; German nightclub in
> the dead of winter, dancing, everyone wearing wool, deodorant apparently
> an "American thing" ...
The Tube in London, early sixties. Would have been Pleasant if the Blokes
had bathed once a week. Deodorant???
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> PGE recently replaced our analog meter with a digital one. So far it does
>> not 'phone home' to me and I only look at it when taking out the trash,
>> but the odd thing is my usage dropped by about ten percent since they put
>> it in. No changes at all in appliances or usage. I'm becoming very
>> suspicious that a faulty analog meter or reader's eyeballs have been
>> charging me an extra ten percent for years.
>
>
> I'd suspect a faulty meter over being misread. While a meter is easily
> misread it is usually corrected on the following read. If you are seeing
> longer term less usage it sounds like the old meter was not being nice to
> you.
I suspect so. I'm going to have a wee chat with them if the next couple of
bills bear me out. Perhaps we can come to a reasonable accomodation.
"Reasonable" being I don't tell channel 2.
>
> My meter comunicated with the thermostat and then through the modem to
> give the power company the information. The meter readers would give that
> meter the strangest looks as it was not readabel IIRC, the modem was the
> link to my billing.
I'm not sure what this one does or how it does it. Might be good to find
out. Be neat to have an easier way to figure out what is going on with
usage.
>
>
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> On Dec 17, 9:08 am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>> Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient
>>>> automobiles known to mankind, and to this day the best selling car
>>>> in history, hit the ground running ... the "Volkswagen".
>>
>>> I will have to disagree with you there. Kim and I bought a new 99
>>> Jetta, it left her stranded on the freeway 3 times under warranty
>>> the first 18 months, and a dead battery replaced under warranty.
>>> That was the Mexico built vehicle. Towed into the dealership and "no
>>> problem found " on the 3 rd time we immediately traded for a German
>>> built 2000 Passat. We almost kept it 4 years. While we had it, it
>>> left Kim stranded 2 times, once was a faulty starter relay, the
>>> second time another dead battery replaced by me. Then there were
>>> numerous emissions problems, the need to replace both outer tie rod
>>> ends at 30K, and the heater core at 43K. The transmission was
>>> showing signs of failure. Traded for the 04 Accord at 47K. Both
>>> vehicles were serviced more often than recommended by the dealer.
>>> The 99 Jetta and 2000 Passat were serviced/oil changed at 3K VW
>>> recommended every 10K. After trading the Passat we got a factory
>>> letter rewording service intervals for the turbo, every 3K and with
>>> synthetic oil. I saw that coming.
>>
>>> I bought the VW's on their past reputation.
>>
>>> Maybe my first VW's were a fluke but I'll probably never buy
>>> another.
>>
>> You folks who are going on about "Rabbits" and "Jettas" and suchlike
>> are missing the point.
>>
>> THE Volkswagen, the Type I, aka the Beetle, aka the Porsche Type 60,
>> was in continuous production for over 60 years with more than 20
>> million built, both the longest and largest production runs in
>> automotive history.
>>
>>>> Sheessh, it's sad, this total failure of the educational system and
>>>> the resultant ignorance!
>>
>>> Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers
>>> that don't give a shit and that finally led to teachers that could
>>> not find a job any where else. Long ago when teachers could step in
>>> as a parent and administer discipline he or she could actually
>>> teach. We have lost teachers that actually taught for baby sitters.
>>
>> Uh, you might want to actually get drunk with a few teachers
>> sometime before you blame them. They have to do what they can with
>> what they've got and what they've got these days isn't much (and I'm
>> not talking about the kids, I'm talking about the rules they are
>> required to work under). Wanna fix education, first shoot all the
>> professors of education and all the school boards.- Hide quoted text
>> -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Try volunteering in a school for awhile and you will have your eyes
> opened.
>
> The problem starts at home.
>
> And the parents are Ground Zero for that problem.
So your solution to the problem is what, shoot all the parents?
>
> TMT
Leon wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Leon wrote:
>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor
>>>>> teachers that don't give a shit and that finally led to teachers
>>>>> that could not find a job any where else. Long ago when
>>>>> teachers could step in as a parent and administer discipline he
>>>>> or she could actually teach. We have lost teachers that actually
>>>>> taught for baby sitters.
>>>>
>>>> Uh, you might want to actually get drunk with a few teachers
>>>> sometime before
>>>> you blame them. They have to do what they can with what they've
>>>> got and what they've got these days isn't much (and I'm not talking
>>>> about the kids,
>>>> I'm talking about the rules they are required to work under).
>>>> Wanna fix education, first shoot all the professors of education
>>>> and all the school boards.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It may differ with location but for the most part the teachers you
>>> are describing are what we had 20 years ago, but not in Houston
>>> today. Today they are asking "how to do" from the kids.
>>
>> Not sure what you mean by "asking how to do", however in some
>> districts teachers are forbidden to actually teach subject
>> matter--they are constrained when a kid asks a question to
>> "facilitate" the kid looking it up
>> for himself and disciplinary action will be taken against them if
>> they actually get caught answering the question.
>
> My son's calculus teacher asked the students , how to do, a problem,
> she could not figure it out.
Could they figure it out? If so then she had done her job well. When a
student can do something the teacher can't then the teacher has succeeded.
>>> I know it is not their fault, the teachers, for the most part the
>>> good ones are long since gone.
>>> And they are gone because they no longer want to be baby sitters
>>> instead of maintaining discipline and actually teaching. Teaching
>>> should also be considered a part of how a child is taught to act and
>>> to respect others. That does not happen any more.
>>> While I agree the restrictions/cigarettes was the root of the
>>> problem.
>>
>> I don't understand what you think cigarettes have to do with
>> anything. As for restrictions, it's not just "restrictions", its a
>> whole mass of bureaucrat-mandated bullshit.
>
> I was making a compairison, cigaretts/cancer, It started with
> restrictions, then came the bureaucrat crap and eventually the cancer
> spread to the teachers.
I'm not following you.
>> However the teachers are not the cause. They don't make the
>> decisions. They don't make the policies.
>
> Don't recall saying the teachers were the cause but they have been
> sucked in and have become part of the problem. The kids are more
> intelligent than most of the teachers these days in the HISD.
I was more intelligent than most of my teachers through high school back in
the '60s, or thought I was. I did know more about quite a lot. But they
were doing what was required of them.
>> You could staff the schools with a who's who of American leadership
>> and they
>> wouldn't be any better than they are now because they'd be operating
>> under the same rules.
>
> That is right and the good ones eventually leave. Those that can't do
> anything else or are in it for the benefits remain.
>
>>
>> When there's something wrong with a huge organization, it's not the
>> peons at
>> the bottom who are causing it.
>
> Correct, not the cause but do become part of the problem.
>
>>
>>> The HS my son went to was an exception to the norm, that school had
>>> "good" teachers and there was not a discipline problem.
>>
>> And this is symptomatic of the problem. Every parent knows that the
>> schools
>> are broken, but the one that their little darling went to was an
>> exception.
>
> The only decent ones my son went to was the private school K-2 and
> the HS 9-12, the other 3 sucked.
>
>
>>
>>> That public
>>> HS was by invitation only. The only requirement to be invited to
>>> attend that school was that you needed to have a "Satisfactory"
>>> average, for conduct, that's it. If a student became a discipline
>>> problem they were warned once and the second time transferred to one
>>> of the other HS's in the district.
>>
>> So the teachers at that school weren't any better than the ones in
>> the other
>> schools, they just made the problem kids somebody else's problem.
>> So do you
>> think that those same teachers would have done nearly as well at one
>> of the
>> other schools?
>
> Yeah they were better teachers. There was a waiting list for them to
> get into the school. Problem kids were few and very far in between.
> My son knew of "1" in the school, a frined of his, and he tas
> transferred out.
How do you know they were better teachers? Do you have results of some kind
of teaching competition or something?
>>> When my son began at that HS the school had grades 9-12. In all
>>> four grade levels there were only 650 students. I would estimate
>>> that in the other 3 HS's that there were in excess of 10K and that
>>> is a very conservative estimate. Out of all of those students
>>> approximately 150 were invited each year to attend Kerr HS.
>>
>> And from that you conclude that the _teachers_ at those other
>> schools are the problem?
>
> "Part" of the problem and the ones we delt with, 3-8 grades seem
> comfortable with that. They did not care for 3 way meetings with the
> principal however.
I'm curious about what those meetings were typically about,.
>>> Kerr HS taught the kids how to prepare for college every day. There
>>> was no week off to study for the TAAS test, which is a Texas thing
>>> to judge how the students are coming along for their grade level.
>>> His middle school took a week every year to review for that test.
>>> IIRC the year my son graduated 95% of the students had been
>>> accepted to a college. IIRC 87% of those students had been awarded
>>> scholarships of $15K or more.
>
> And this is because the teachers were so brilliant you think.
>
> I would not say brillinat so much as above average and the teachers
> had nothing to do with obtaining the scolarships. That was all on
> the kids to do the leg work.
> The system was totally different in that school all the way up to the
> principal. Teachers were allowed to teach and they did teach. And
> yes most all of the teachers in that school were impressive, even to
> the kids. Remember, the good teachers were lined up to get into Kerr.
> They wanted to teach there, that came out at every PTA meeting.
>
> In the other schools the teachers reminded me of typical "government
> workers", there for the benefits.
> I know that their attitudes were not all their fault, the system is
> to blame but many of those teachers were like many of the kids, lost.
> You know when the system sucks badly enough and you cannot attract
> good help because of that fact you settle for less than desirable to
> fill the classrooms. That is what I saw.
So we've got one school that cherry-picked the whole system and managed to
do well for a handful of kids. So how do you make that work for the rest of
the system?
>>> I'm certain that the education that my son received at Kerr HS
>>> played a very major roll in him transitioning so smoothly into
>>> college. I recall the 10th graders mentoring the incoming 9th
>>> graders and most of them were high achievers. Life transitioning
>>> into Kerr HS was a bigger challenge for my son than going from that
>>> HS into college. I am also certain that Kerr HS played a major
>>> part in my son getting into the Honors College his first year at
>>> the university and graduating with a 4 year average GPA of 3.87.
>>
>> And all of this you attribute to the excellence of the teachers and
>> not to the district policies that allowed the school to cherry-pick
>> students?
>
> Do you call only accepting students with at least "Satisfactory"
> conduct grade cherry picking?
Did they accept every student in the district who had such a grade?
> Let me mention also that younger
> borthers and sisters were also accepted regardless of the conduct
> grade.
So what percentage of students in the district were these?
>
> Many of thse kids were not brilliant but they certainly shined when
> they graduated.
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> On Dec 17, 7:45 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>
>>
>>> Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient
>>> automobiles known to mankind, and to this day the best selling car
>>> in history, hit the ground running ... the "Volkswagen".
>>
>> I will have to disagree with you there. Kim and I bought a new 99
>> Jetta, it left her stranded on the freeway 3 times under warranty
>> the first 18 months, and a dead battery replaced under warranty.
>> That was the Mexico built vehicle. Towed into the dealership and "no
>> problem found " on the 3 rd time we immediately traded for a German
>> built 2000 Passat. We almost kept it 4 years. While we had it, it
>> left Kim stranded 2 times, once was a faulty starter relay, the
>> second time another dead battery replaced by me. Then there were
>> numerous emissions problems, the need to replace both outer tie rod
>> ends at 30K, and the heater core at 43K. The transmission was
>> showing signs of failure. Traded for the 04 Accord at 47K. Both
>> vehicles were serviced more often than recommended by the dealer.
>> The 99 Jetta and 2000 Passat were serviced/oil changed at 3K VW
>> recommended every 10K. After trading the Passat we got a factory
>> letter rewording service intervals for the turbo, every 3K and with
>> synthetic oil. I saw that coming.
>>
>> I bought the VW's on their past reputation.
>>
>> Maybe my first VW's were a fluke but I'll probably never buy another.
>>
>>
>>
>>> Sheessh, it's sad, this total failure of the educational system and
>>> the resultant ignorance!
>>
>> Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers
>> that don't give a shit and that finally led to teachers that could
>> not find a job any where else. Long ago when teachers could step in
>> as a parent and administer discipline he or she could actually
>> teach. We have lost teachers that actually taught for baby sitters.
>
> The true failure are the parents who do not support the teacher.
>
> When there is no value placed on education at home, there will be no
> learning at school.
Yeah, blame everybody but the bureaucrats who keep piling more and more and
more crap on the schools.
>
> TMT
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> On Dec 17, 2:25 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> John Silber, former president of Boston College, was asked what one
>>> thing could be done to improve the quality of education in America.
>>> He answered: "Abolish colleges of education."
>>
>> Sounds exactly like the typical "former" employee with an ax to
>> grind would say.
>>
>> I'd say get rid of public education and all the bureaucracy that
>> come with it. Privatize it.
>
> And fine the parents for Johnny's poor performance when it occurs.
I didn't realize that you were a liberal.
Mine were electronic (they went electronic after 1974). I
liked being able to set timing on the 225 CID with a 7/16
socket on the end of an extension, and a timing light. The
318 was a pain, I may still have my 12 point distributor
wrench. 9/16 was it?
The one slant six I had, I screwed up and got the wrong
plugs, one time. I had to troubleshoot and replace two
plugs. Under a bridge, in Wyoming, with about 40 or 50 MPH
wind from the west.
I remember my Mopars being very moisture sensetive. Even
knowing the module ground and all, somtimes they just didn't
want to start if there was some humidity around. Or rain the
day before.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318.
Did most of my
own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like
was setting the
points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm)
and trying to
start either if a neighborhood dog peed within a block or so
while the
engine was turning over ...
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Having owned four Chryslers (three with V8-318, and one with
>>> slant 6-215 CED engine) I nominate them for the POS
>>> category, also.
>>
>> I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318. Did most of my
>> own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like was setting
>> the points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm) and trying
>> to start either if a neighborhood dog peed within a block or so while the
>> engine was turning over ...
>
>
> They made a header for the slant 6??
Yes, but
My bad. Head was thinking exhaust manifold and fingers were busy thinking
about after market parts.
>
> Here hold my beer and watch this!
>
> My buddy was given his mother's Beige 4 door 65 Dodge Coronet. Slant 6,
> auto trans. That thing was full race and looked the part. OR NOT!.
> One cold night we were out kinda late in Corpus Christi sipping on a
> couple of large screw top bottles of beer. Brand, did not matter.
If it was Lone Star ...
> We were going down the freeway with darn little traffic so we are going
> about 70.
>
> My buddy looked over at me and said, watch this. He reached up grabbed
> the shift lever, and yanked it down all the way into low. The engine
> roared and we suddenly slowed down.
And?
Not something I ever tried!
>
>
>
>
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mine were electronic (they went electronic after 1974). I
> liked being able to set timing on the 225 CID with a 7/16
> socket on the end of an extension, and a timing light. The
> 318 was a pain, I may still have my 12 point distributor
> wrench. 9/16 was it?
Something I worked on did, but I would have guessed the 62 Chevy with the
straight 6. There was an engine you could love when it came to tune ups. In
a fullsized Chevy you could just about clamber into the engine compartment
to work on it.
>
> The one slant six I had, I screwed up and got the wrong
> plugs, one time. I had to troubleshoot and replace two
> plugs. Under a bridge, in Wyoming, with about 40 or 50 MPH
> wind from the west.
Not winter, hopefuly ..
>
> I remember my Mopars being very moisture sensetive. Even
> knowing the module ground and all, somtimes they just didn't
> want to start if there was some humidity around. Or rain the
> day before.
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
>
> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
> I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318.
> Did most of my
> own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like
> was setting the
> points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm)
> and trying to
> start either if a neighborhood dog peed within a block or so
> while the
> engine was turning over ...
>
>
>
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>>>
>>>> I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318. Did most of
>>>> my own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like was
>>>> setting the points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm)
>>>> and trying to start either if a neighborhood dog peed within a block or
>>>> so while the engine was turning over ...
>>>
>>>
>>> They made a header for the slant 6??
>>
>> Yes, but
>>
>> My bad. Head was thinking exhaust manifold and fingers were busy thinking
>> about after market parts.
>
> Was your exhaust manifold cracked. IIRC that was a problem with that
> engine. When cold the engine exhaust manifold was kinda noisy and
> quietened up when it got hot.
No, but it was hot.
>
>>
>>>
>>> Here hold my beer and watch this!
>>>
>>> My buddy was given his mother's Beige 4 door 65 Dodge Coronet. Slant 6,
>>> auto trans. That thing was full race and looked the part. OR NOT!.
>>> One cold night we were out kinda late in Corpus Christi sipping on a
>>> couple of large screw top bottles of beer. Brand, did not matter.
>>
>> If it was Lone Star ...
>
> I believe you are right.... MY BIL was the VP of the local Lone Star
> distributorship.
>
>
>>
>>> We were going down the freeway with darn little traffic so we are going
>>> about 70.
>>>
>>> My buddy looked over at me and said, watch this. He reached up grabbed
>>> the shift lever, and yanked it down all the way into low. The engine
>>> roared and we suddenly slowed down.
>>
>> And?
>
> That's it the engine roared and we slowed down. That was an industrial
> engine used on other applications other than automitive and they could be
> abused. Back then was also when the Chrysler products had bullet proof
> transmissions also. Remember the commericals where the guy floors the
> accelerator pedal and does what my froend did except he goes from D to R
> and back to D. Close up of the smokin rear tire shows it reversing
> dirrections a couple of times.
>
> That car was our "tank" It saw a lot of action in local farmers corn
> fields.
>
>
>
>
Leon wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> Yeah, blame everybody but the bureaucrats who keep piling more and
>> more and
>> more crap on the schools.
>
> Who do you think the bureaucrats are trying to please????
The legislators of course.
> You seem to have the unique ability to throw gasoline on the blaze
> and yet show no hint of any rational ability to understand the
> problem.
So what do you believe the problem to be?
Hint--blaming the teachers is like blaming the deckhands for what happened
to the
Titanic.
Leon wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>> Try volunteering in a school for awhile and you will have your eyes
>>> opened.
>>>
>>> The problem starts at home.
>>>
>>> And the parents are Ground Zero for that problem.
>>
>> So your solution to the problem is what, shoot all the parents?
>
> Oh good Lord how can any one take you seriousely?
Google "humor". You might want to buy some.
In article <[email protected]>, "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
>I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318. Did most of my
>own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like was setting the
>points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm)
That'd be a pretty neat trick, considering that the distributor on a slant-six
is half-way down the block on the passenger side, and the exhaust manifold is
all the way at the top of the engine on the driver's side. You'd think that
someone who'd done all that work on a slant-six would know where the
distributor is.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "LDosser"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318. Did most of my
>>own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like was setting
>>the
>>points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm)
>
> That'd be a pretty neat trick, considering that the distributor on a
> slant-six
> is half-way down the block on the passenger side, and the exhaust manifold
> is
> all the way at the top of the engine on the driver's side. You'd think
> that
> someone who'd done all that work on a slant-six would know where the
> distributor is.
Long arms. They say memory is the first to go ... Anyone know what the hell
I was burning myself on?
In article <[email protected]>, "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>, "LDosser"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318. Did most of my
>>>own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like was setting the
>>>points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm)
>>
>> That'd be a pretty neat trick, considering that the distributor on a slant-six
>> is half-way down the block on the passenger side, and the exhaust manifold is
>> all the way at the top of the engine on the driver's side. You'd think that
>> someone who'd done all that work on a slant-six would know where the
>> distributor is.
>
>Long arms. They say memory is the first to go ... Anyone know what the hell
>I was burning myself on?
>
Valve cover, maybe... ? I finally figured out that the easiest way, _by far_,
to change points on those engines was to take careful note of the position of
the rotor, then pull the distributor out and lay it on the workbench. Made it
real easy to set the gap right on spec with feeler gauges. Discovered that
entirely by accident one evening, when I dropped that damn tiny little screw
*into* the distributor, and *had* to pull it to retrieve the screw. Figured as
long as I had it out, I might as well put the new points in before
reinstalling it.... damn, that was easy... gotta remember that for next time!
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "LDosser"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> In article <[email protected]>, "LDosser"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318. Did most of
>>>>my
>>>>own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like was setting
>>>>the
>>>>points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm)
>>>
>>> That'd be a pretty neat trick, considering that the distributor on a
>>> slant-six
>>> is half-way down the block on the passenger side, and the exhaust
>>> manifold is
>>> all the way at the top of the engine on the driver's side. You'd think
>>> that
>>> someone who'd done all that work on a slant-six would know where the
>>> distributor is.
>>
>>Long arms. They say memory is the first to go ... Anyone know what the
>>hell
>>I was burning myself on?
>>
> Valve cover, maybe... ?
Could be, but I'd still be a bit contorted. Ah well.
> I finally figured out that the easiest way, _by far_,
> to change points on those engines was to take careful note of the position
> of
> the rotor, then pull the distributor out and lay it on the workbench. Made
> it
> real easy to set the gap right on spec with feeler gauges. Discovered that
> entirely by accident one evening, when I dropped that damn tiny little
> screw
> *into* the distributor, and *had* to pull it to retrieve the screw.
> Figured as
> long as I had it out, I might as well put the new points in before
> reinstalling it.... damn, that was easy... gotta remember that for next
> time!
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, "LDosser"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> In article <[email protected]>, "LDosser"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318. Did most of
>>>>my
>>>>own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like was setting
>>>>the
>>>>points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm)
>>>
>>> That'd be a pretty neat trick, considering that the distributor on a
>>> slant-six
>>> is half-way down the block on the passenger side, and the exhaust
>>> manifold is
>>> all the way at the top of the engine on the driver's side. You'd think
>>> that
>>> someone who'd done all that work on a slant-six would know where the
>>> distributor is.
>>
>>Long arms. They say memory is the first to go ... Anyone know what the
>>hell
>>I was burning myself on?
>>
> Valve cover, maybe... ? I finally figured out that the easiest way, _by
> far_,
> to change points on those engines was to take careful note of the position
> of
> the rotor, then pull the distributor out and lay it on the workbench. Made
> it
> real easy to set the gap right on spec with feeler gauges. Discovered that
> entirely by accident one evening, when I dropped that damn tiny little
> screw
> *into* the distributor, and *had* to pull it to retrieve the screw.
> Figured as
> long as I had it out, I might as well put the new points in before
> reinstalling it.... damn, that was easy... gotta remember that for next
> time!
Pressed send too soon. Wish I'd thought of that!
Part of my problem was I never tuned to spec. I started there and adjusted
for 'feel'. Was a difficult engine to do that on.
No new text?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"WW" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote
in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mine were electronic (they went electronic after 1974). I
> liked being able to set timing on the 225 CID with a 7/16
> socket on the end of an extension, and a timing light. The
> 318 was a pain, I may still have my 12 point distributor
> wrench. 9/16 was it?
>
> The one slant six I had, I screwed up and got the wrong
> plugs, one time. I had to troubleshoot and replace two
> plugs. Under a bridge, in Wyoming, with about 40 or 50 MPH
> wind from the west.
>
> I remember my Mopars being very moisture sensetive. Even
> knowing the module ground and all, somtimes they just
> didn't
> want to start if there was some humidity around. Or rain
> the
> day before.
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
>
> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
> I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318.
> Did most of my
> own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't
> like
> was setting the
> points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm)
> and trying to
> start either if a neighborhood dog peed within a block or
> so
> while the
> engine was turning over ...
>
>
>Wrong site Cris This is a woodworkers site. WW
On 12/18/2009 8:34 AM, N8N wrote:
> On Dec 17, 10:23 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
> <cayoung61**[email protected]> wrote:
>> Mine were electronic (they went electronic after 1974). I
>> liked being able to set timing on the 225 CID with a 7/16
>> socket on the end of an extension, and a timing light. The
>> 318 was a pain, I may still have my 12 point distributor
>> wrench. 9/16 was it?
>>
>> The one slant six I had, I screwed up and got the wrong
>> plugs, one time. I had to troubleshoot and replace two
>> plugs. Under a bridge, in Wyoming, with about 40 or 50 MPH
>> wind from the west.
>>
>> I remember my Mopars being very moisture sensetive. Even
>> knowing the module ground and all, somtimes they just didn't
>> want to start if there was some humidity around. Or rain the
>> day before.
>
> I remember when I was a real little kid my dad had an old beater
> Valiant - I think it was a '64 or thereabouts. He was always having
> problems with the carburetor on it... years later I dated a girl with
> a '69, that car had a Holley 1bbl and it too had issues. Replaced the
> carb with a Carter and it ran splendiferously ever after. Only
> problems with it after that point were a ballast resistor that failed,
> and the fact that the points would burn just about every 9 mos. like
> clockwork (maybe due to a off spec replacement ballast?) then she had
> to have the head redone because she didn't adjust the valves (probably
> ever) and burned one. Other than that it was a very reliable car,
> wish I had it today.
>
> nate
>
I had two slant sixes. One in a 1962 Plymouth and the other in the most
terrible car ever built a 1976 Aspen. (I only got 200k trouble free
miles on the engine, and there a few rattles as it approached the 200k mark)
I had trouble with the carburetor on the Aspen. When I made a left turn
the car would die out for a second and then continue normally. After
messing around with it for about a year an old mechanic told me the
float was saturated with gas and replaced it. Never had a problem after
that
Question: Will your Craftsman table saw handle the rpm produced by the
slant 6? :->
HeyBub wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> HeyBub wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> John Silber, former president of Boston College, was asked what
>>>>> one thing could be done to improve the quality of education in
>>>>> America. He answered: "Abolish colleges of education."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sounds exactly like the typical "former" employee with an ax to
>>>> grind would say.
>>>>
>>>> I'd say get rid of public education and all the bureaucracy that
>>>> come with it. Privatize it.
>>>
>>> Yep. If universal education is felt to be a worthwhile goal, give
>>> out vouchers.
>>>
>>> Oh, and before you shrug off John Silber as a disgruntled
>>> ex-employee, you might check his Wikipedia entry. I just did and I
>>> see I made a mistake: He was president of Boston University, not
>>> College.
>>
>> FWIW, I have a friend who has a PhD in education, and is retired, not
>> fired, so one can't claim that he is "disgruntled", who shares the
>> opinion that the flaws in the system are inherent in the educational
>> philosophy currently being taught in the colleges of education, and
>> in the poltical tendency to require the schools to provide more and
>> more social functions that are not rightly part of education.
>
> It's worse than you think.
>
> In America, we do not have a single living Nobel laureate or Fields
> medalist, not even the president, who is qualified, by law, to teach
> in the schools of my state. No winner of the Pulitzer, Booker, Hugo,
> Edgar, Newberry, Caldecott or other literary prize. Nor can any of
> the justices of the Supreme Court stand in front of a classroom as a
> teacher.
>
> In my state, one can be certified to teach mathematics at the
> high-school level without ever having had a college course in
> Calculus.
>
> Pitiful really.
>
> Does anyone doubt that a retired Civil Engineer could teach geometry
> off the top of his head? Would you expect a retired nurse to be able
> to instruct in high school biology? And so on. Well, they can't.
>
> Makes one want to weep.
There is a notion popular in the colleges of education that the teacher's
skill is teaching and that the teacher doesn't actually have to know
anything about the subject matter, and that expertise in a subject is
actually undesirable.
I remember when I was a real little kid my dad had an old
beater
Valiant - I think it was a '64 or thereabouts. He was
always having
problems with the carburetor on it... years later I dated a
girl with
a '69, that car had a Holley 1bbl and it too had issues.
Replaced the
carb with a Carter and it ran splendiferously ever after.
CY: Those carbs were interesting, you could actually adjust
them. I found the adjustment that worked for me was lightly
closed, and then out 3 half turns. The vacuum lines always
wanted to fall off. If the vac line fell off (the one to the
air cleaner) the car ran poorly.
Only
problems with it after that point were a ballast resistor
that failed,
CY: And the engine didn't run. I learned to carry spare
ballast resistors. As also did most Chrysler owners.
and the fact that the points would burn just about every 9
mos. like
clockwork (maybe due to a off spec replacement ballast?)
CY: Burning points is typically due to bad condensor. They
are replaced as a set.
then she had
to have the head redone because she didn't adjust the valves
(probably
ever) and burned one.
CY: Most likely, never. Few people do.
Other than that it was a very reliable car,
wish I had it today.
CY: A starter and alternator every year and a half?
nate
"Keith Nuttle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On 12/18/2009 8:34 AM, N8N wrote:
I had two slant sixes. One in a 1962 Plymouth and the other
in the most
terrible car ever built a 1976 Aspen. (I only got 200k
trouble free
miles on the engine, and there a few rattles as it
approached the 200k mark)
CY: What was wrong with the Aspen? Mine was a 1974 Dodge
Dart Swinger. Got 10.5 MPG, wouldn't run when it was wet.
I had trouble with the carburetor on the Aspen. When I made
a left turn
the car would die out for a second and then continue
normally. After
messing around with it for about a year an old mechanic told
me the
float was saturated with gas and replaced it. Never had a
problem after
that
CY: That mechanic was worth his weight in gold.
Question: Will your Craftsman table saw handle the rpm
produced by the
slant 6? :->
CY: Adjustable throttle, silly. Just don't rev it wide open
like a teenager.
"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> J. Clarke wrote:
>> HeyBub wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> John Silber, former president of Boston College, was asked what one
>>>>> thing could be done to improve the quality of education in America.
>>>>> He answered: "Abolish colleges of education."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sounds exactly like the typical "former" employee with an ax to
>>>> grind would say.
>>>>
>>>> I'd say get rid of public education and all the bureaucracy that
>>>> come with it. Privatize it.
>>>
>>> Yep. If universal education is felt to be a worthwhile goal, give out
>>> vouchers.
>>>
>>> Oh, and before you shrug off John Silber as a disgruntled
>>> ex-employee, you might check his Wikipedia entry. I just did and I
>>> see I made a mistake: He was president of Boston University, not
>>> College.
>>
>> FWIW, I have a friend who has a PhD in education, and is retired, not
>> fired, so one can't claim that he is "disgruntled", who shares the
>> opinion that the flaws in the system are inherent in the educational
>> philosophy currently being taught in the colleges of education, and
>> in the poltical tendency to require the schools to provide more and
>> more social functions that are not rightly part of education.
>
> It's worse than you think.
>
> In America, we do not have a single living Nobel laureate or Fields
> medalist, not even the president, who is qualified, by law, to teach in
> the schools of my state. No winner of the Pulitzer, Booker, Hugo, Edgar,
> Newberry, Caldecott or other literary prize. Nor can any of the justices
> of the Supreme Court stand in front of a classroom as a teacher.
>
> In my state, one can be certified to teach mathematics at the high-school
> level without ever having had a college course in Calculus.
>
> Pitiful really.
>
> Does anyone doubt that a retired Civil Engineer could teach geometry off
> the top of his head? Would you expect a retired nurse to be able to
> instruct in high school biology? And so on. Well, they can't.
>
> Makes one want to weep.
SWMBO is a high school teacher, 10th, 11th, 12th grade biology, forensics
and AP biology as well as chemistry and physics.
She entered the teaching profession about 6 years ago after
having worked 17 years in private industry.
She is unique in the local school system, in that she is the only person
employed
by the local school board that has ever been a success outside of education.
Most
teachers and administrators have no clue how the real world works and wait
for the next crumb of "enlightenment" to drop from the ivory towers of the
universties and state administrators.
When school is in session, SWMBO will average working 15 hours a day
with 5 of that spent on non teaching related task.
Effective discipline is nonexistant, most parent are unreachable and could
care
less what happens at school.
No one is allowed to fail.
The system is broken beyond repair.
In contrast she sometimes teaches partime at a private military school, the
kids are
respectful and do their work.
I have sit in on several of these classes and always leave feeling good
about life in general,
just knowing that there are pockets of humanity where good behavior, manners
and
and hard work are still practiced in school.
Zero discipline issues in these classes, if any one ever raises their
voice or causes a disruption they are removed from the room by
upperclassmen, and
according to her, when they return there is no more problems with that
student "ever".
basilisk
On 12/18/2009 9:35 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> "Keith Nuttle"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> On 12/18/2009 8:34 AM, N8N wrote:
>
> I had two slant sixes. One in a 1962 Plymouth and the other
> in the most
> terrible car ever built a 1976 Aspen. (I only got 200k
> trouble free
> miles on the engine, and there a few rattles as it
> approached the 200k mark)
>
> CY: What was wrong with the Aspen? Mine was a 1974 Dodge
> Dart Swinger. Got 10.5 MPG, wouldn't run when it was wet.
>
> I had trouble with the carburetor on the Aspen. When I made
> a left turn
> the car would die out for a second and then continue
> normally. After
> messing around with it for about a year an old mechanic told
> me the
> float was saturated with gas and replaced it. Never had a
> problem after
> that
>
> CY: That mechanic was worth his weight in gold.
>
> Question: Will your Craftsman table saw handle the rpm
> produced by the
> slant 6? :->
>
> CY: Adjustable throttle, silly. Just don't rev it wide open
> like a teenager.
>
>
Let me know how it works on your saw.
I had a 3 speed standard transmission on my slant six Aspen an got about
19 to 20 miles per gallon. About the same as today's cars of the same
weight and size.
Do the presently employed teachers do a good job teaching
the liberal agenda? Be dumb. Be compliant. Fear global
warming. And, lets teach everyone how to have "safe" sex by
rolling a condom on a cucumber before going to town.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> FWIW, I have a friend who has a PhD in education, and is
> retired, not
> fired, so one can't claim that he is "disgruntled", who
> shares the
> opinion that the flaws in the system are inherent in the
> educational
> philosophy currently being taught in the colleges of
> education, and
> in the poltical tendency to require the schools to provide
> more and
> more social functions that are not rightly part of
> education.
It's worse than you think.
In America, we do not have a single living Nobel laureate or
Fields
medalist, not even the president, who is qualified, by law,
to teach in the
schools of my state. No winner of the Pulitzer, Booker,
Hugo, Edgar,
Newberry, Caldecott or other literary prize. Nor can any of
the justices of
the Supreme Court stand in front of a classroom as a
teacher.
In my state, one can be certified to teach mathematics at
the high-school
level without ever having had a college course in Calculus.
Pitiful really.
Does anyone doubt that a retired Civil Engineer could teach
geometry off the
top of his head? Would you expect a retired nurse to be able
to instruct in
high school biology? And so on. Well, they can't.
Makes one want to weep.
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Keith Nuttle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> On 12/18/2009 8:34 AM, N8N wrote:
>
> I had two slant sixes. One in a 1962 Plymouth and the other
> in the most
> terrible car ever built a 1976 Aspen. (I only got 200k
> trouble free
> miles on the engine, and there a few rattles as it
> approached the 200k mark)
>
> CY: What was wrong with the Aspen? Mine was a 1974 Dodge
> Dart Swinger. Got 10.5 MPG, wouldn't run when it was wet.
>
> I had trouble with the carburetor on the Aspen. When I made
> a left turn
> the car would die out for a second and then continue
> normally. After
> messing around with it for about a year an old mechanic told
> me the
> float was saturated with gas and replaced it. Never had a
> problem after
> that
>
> CY: That mechanic was worth his weight in gold.
>
> Question: Will your Craftsman table saw handle the rpm
> produced by the
> slant 6? :->
>
> CY: Adjustable throttle, silly. Just don't rev it wide open
> like a teenager.
>
I owned a '76 aspen as well, drive train was
beyond complaint, but the rest of the car
disintegrated to nothing.
Engine held up to about 280,000 miles
but I will admit to running bar and chain oil in
it for the last 6 months of its life.
basilisk
To reduce leaks?
My green Dodge van, had a leak at the rear crank shaft. I
ran exclusively used motor oil for the last year or so.
Amazing ammounts of oil.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"basilisk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I owned a '76 aspen as well, drive train was
beyond complaint, but the rest of the car
disintegrated to nothing.
Engine held up to about 280,000 miles
but I will admit to running bar and chain oil in
it for the last 6 months of its life.
basilisk
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> To reduce leaks?
yep, leaks around the rings and valve stems.
Can't say I reccommend this for climates colder than AL,
those winter starts are tough.
I just got rid of a '84 toyota p/u that was running with bar and chain
oil in it to keep it from fouling the plugs.
basilisk
>
> My green Dodge van, had a leak at the rear crank shaft. I
> ran exclusively used motor oil for the last year or so.
> Amazing ammounts of oil.
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
>
> "basilisk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> I owned a '76 aspen as well, drive train was
> beyond complaint, but the rest of the car
> disintegrated to nothing.
> Engine held up to about 280,000 miles
> but I will admit to running bar and chain oil in
> it for the last 6 months of its life.
>
> basilisk
>
>
>
Interesting idea. I've used heavier oils, or STP oil
treatment.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"basilisk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote
in message
news:[email protected]...
> To reduce leaks?
yep, leaks around the rings and valve stems.
Can't say I reccommend this for climates colder than AL,
those winter starts are tough.
I just got rid of a '84 toyota p/u that was running with bar
and chain
oil in it to keep it from fouling the plugs.
basilisk
You admit to associating with people who have sex with
cucumbers?
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net>
wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> If you're having sex with a cucumber, you don't need a
> condom.
=========================
Think pesticides.
Think rash.
I knew a somebody who found this out the hard way.
notbob wrote:
> On 2009-12-18, Stormin Mormon <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Interesting idea. I've used heavier oils, or STP oil
>> treatment.
>
> The old-timer's trick was to change to paraffin-based oil. It would
> slow the leak and any smoking way down. This was always a last ditch
> solution to an old tired engine needing rebuild cuz it would sludge up
> an engine beyond belief and could never return to reg oils. I doubt
> you can even find/buy paraffin-based oil, anymore.
>
> nb
There is a common misconception about Paraffin-based oils and sludge
formation. Many crude oil based engine oils have Paraffin in them
and those oils do not cause sludge buildup in engines according to
some experts, others have a different opinion. I remember the oil
advertising for Pennsylvania grade crude oil which is high in paraffin.
Pro: http://www.yotarepair.com/sludge%20article.html
Con: http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html
TDD
notbob wrote:
> On 2009-12-18, Stormin Mormon <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> 318 was a pain, I may still have my 12 point distributor
>> wrench. 9/16 was it?
>
> Depends on the vehicle. I had a 318 in a 74 van. When the weather
> became very hot (100+), specially after they took the lead out of gas,
> it would ping badly going up a grade. I timed it by removing the
> engine shroud, loosening the distibutor clamp nut, and adjusting the
> distributor until the pinging ceased. All this while driving up said
> grade, the distributor being a within easy reach of my right hand.
>
>> I remember my Mopars being very moisture sensetive. Even
>> knowing the module ground and all, somtimes they just didn't
>> want to start if there was some humidity around. Or rain the
>> day before.
>
> I had this happen once. I removed the distibutor cap and saw it was
> literally dripping moisture. I liberally sprayed it and the points
> with WD40 and reassembled. Fired right up. The WD stands for water
> displacement.
>
> nb
The secret was to carry an extra "dual ballast resistor" in the glove
box for all the Mopars with the electronic ignition. I had several
go out and it was a 10 minute or less repair job.
TDD
I've also done timing with the doghouse off. Wasn't that a
bit hot, with all the hot blast from the radiator coming
into the passenger compartment?
Yep, good old WD. I found the ground on the ignition module
troublesome.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"notbob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On 2009-12-18, Stormin Mormon
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 318 was a pain, I may still have my 12 point distributor
> wrench. 9/16 was it?
Depends on the vehicle. I had a 318 in a 74 van. When the
weather
became very hot (100+), specially after they took the lead
out of gas,
it would ping badly going up a grade. I timed it by
removing the
engine shroud, loosening the distibutor clamp nut, and
adjusting the
distributor until the pinging ceased. All this while
driving up said
grade, the distributor being a within easy reach of my right
hand.
> I remember my Mopars being very moisture sensetive. Even
> knowing the module ground and all, somtimes they just
> didn't
> want to start if there was some humidity around. Or rain
> the
> day before.
I had this happen once. I removed the distibutor cap and
saw it was
literally dripping moisture. I liberally sprayed it and the
points
with WD40 and reassembled. Fired right up. The WD stands
for water
displacement.
nb
Didn't even really need to remove the bolt -- just pop the
wires on the new resistor, and let it hang there. Of course,
the bolt was ideal for a good change out.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"The Daring Dufas" <[email protected]> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
The secret was to carry an extra "dual ballast resistor" in
the glove
box for all the Mopars with the electronic ignition. I had
several
go out and it was a 10 minute or less repair job.
TDD
"Jules" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:33:47 -0600, HeyBub wrote:
>> As long as we're bragging, my 1970 Ford Custom got 9mph.
>>
>> 'Course it had a police interceptor engine, a calibrated speedometer up
>> to
>> 140, an 8-quart crankcase, and, believe it or not, a DELCO alternator.
>
> What good's a speedo up to 140 if it won't go beyond 10mph? ;)
>
You can see how much room you've got for improvement!
"Jules" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:15:21 -0800, LDosser wrote:
>> The Tube in London, early sixties.
>
> I believe they fitted aircon to at least some of the lines recently - I'm
> yet to go back over and try it out. I used to go into London a few nights
> a week and the trains were always hell in the summer months, with almost
> no air circulation... (and they used to bump around and feel like they
> were coming off the tracks, and the lights would sometimes all go out for
> several seconds at a time... ahh, memories :-)
>
> cheers
>
> Jules
>
Ha, I'd forgotten about the lights! And the hellishly long stops with
absolutely No air circulation? Usually right under the river. This in the
days when the definition of Daring was taking off your shoes and socks and
rolling up your trouser legs while having a day at the shore. NTM three
blokes in suits, ties, knitted cardigans, and tweed caps filling potholes or
digging ditches!
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> "ktos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> My next door neighbor has 2 Chryslers. Both cars sound like bombs
>> exploding when they start their cars.
>
>
> I can still remember back in the 50's hearing our neighbor start his '56
> Dodge. It was a godawful sound very fitting for such an ugly car. Remember
> the three-tone paint jobs available back then? Most every maker had
> two-tone, but Dodge had to top them with three.
>
> Over the past 48 years, I've owned many different brands of car, but never
> anything from Chrysler. Nor will I ever. I still don't like their style.
Were they using gear reduction starters that early?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_2OBC2d93g
that's a GOOD sound!
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
Nate Nagel wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> "ktos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> My next door neighbor has 2 Chryslers. Both cars sound like bombs
>>> exploding when they start their cars.
>>
>>
>> I can still remember back in the 50's hearing our neighbor start his
>> '56 Dodge. It was a godawful sound very fitting for such an ugly car.
>> Remember the three-tone paint jobs available back then? Most every
>> maker had two-tone, but Dodge had to top them with three.
>>
>> Over the past 48 years, I've owned many different brands of car, but
>> never anything from Chrysler. Nor will I ever. I still don't like
>> their style.
>
> Were they using gear reduction starters that early?
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_2OBC2d93g
>
> that's a GOOD sound!
>
> nate
>
>
The Mopar gear reduction starters drew a lot less current from
the battery if I remember correctly. A low battery would start
a Dart with a slant six but wouldn't start a Falcon with a six.
TDD
Smitty Two wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Jules wrote:
>>
>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are
>>> talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>> spaceships.
>
> The Europeans have yet to make a reliable car.
Lookie what I just tripped over. A 4 wheeled self propelled British
bonfire. *snicker*
http://tinyurl.com/y8jrrhf
TDD
The Daring Dufas wrote:
> Smitty Two wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Jules wrote:
>>>
>>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There
>>>> are
>>>> talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>>> spaceships.
>>
>> The Europeans have yet to make a reliable car.
>
> Lookie what I just tripped over. A 4 wheeled self propelled British
> bonfire. *snicker*
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y8jrrhf
>
> TDD
Odd then that I've had German cars as my daily drivers from roughly 1998
up until four years ago (when I got a company car.) I miss my cheap
German beaters, much higher quality and fewer annoyances than the brand
new American cars I've been driving since.
Still have the last of the beaters, a Porsche 944. If you told me I had
to be halfway across the country as soon as possible, I'd prefer to
drive that over the two year old Impala that shares driveway space with
it. (today, that would be an even easier choice as I have snow tires on
the Porsche but crappy all-seasons on the Impala)
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
Nate Nagel wrote:
> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>> Smitty Two wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jules wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less.
>>>>> There are
>>>>> talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>>>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>>>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>>>> spaceships.
>>>
>>> The Europeans have yet to make a reliable car.
>>
>> Lookie what I just tripped over. A 4 wheeled self propelled British
>> bonfire. *snicker*
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/y8jrrhf
>>
>> TDD
>
> Odd then that I've had German cars as my daily drivers from roughly 1998
> up until four years ago (when I got a company car.) I miss my cheap
> German beaters, much higher quality and fewer annoyances than the brand
> new American cars I've been driving since.
>
> Still have the last of the beaters, a Porsche 944. If you told me I had
> to be halfway across the country as soon as possible, I'd prefer to
> drive that over the two year old Impala that shares driveway space with
> it. (today, that would be an even easier choice as I have snow tires on
> the Porsche but crappy all-seasons on the Impala)
>
> nate
>
I know what you mean, to go a long distance, you want a known quantity
or something that you know its quirks and things that have already
broken. I've had cars that I was so attuned to that I could tell when
some little thing was out of adjustment by the way the car sounded or
felt. Like tire pressure, you may feel a little vibration or a very
slight tug on the steering wheel when applying the brakes.
TDD
Zootal wrote:
> "Nate Nagel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>>> Smitty Two wrote:
>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Jules wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>>>>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>>>>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>>>>> spaceships.
>>>> The Europeans have yet to make a reliable car.
>>> Lookie what I just tripped over. A 4 wheeled self propelled British
>>> bonfire. *snicker*
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/y8jrrhf
>>>
>>> TDD
>> Odd then that I've had German cars as my daily drivers from roughly 1998
>> up until four years ago (when I got a company car.) I miss my cheap
>> German beaters, much higher quality and fewer annoyances than the brand
>> new American cars I've been driving since.
>>
>> Still have the last of the beaters, a Porsche 944. If you told me I had
>> to be halfway across the country as soon as possible, I'd prefer to drive
>> that over the two year old Impala that shares driveway space with it.
>> (today, that would be an even easier choice as I have snow tires on the
>> Porsche but crappy all-seasons on the Impala)
>>
>> nate
>>
>
> I used to work for a Peugeot dealer many years ago. Peugeots were not too
> bad, for European made cars. They actually had quite a few American parts in
> them. The power steering pumps were Saginaws, right out of Michigan. We ship
> them to France, the French paint Peugeot on them and they then cost three
> times as much. Go figure.Their diesel engines will self-destruct if you over
> heat them even once, but they will last a long time otherwise. Their gas
> engine cars are pigs - absolute pigs. The gas powered 604 was a disastor.
> Today they make the Ion. Can't find a parking spot? No problem, pick the car
> up, fold it a few times and stick it in your pocket. Don't ever leave it
> parked on a hill because it will start rolling. Not rolling on the wheels,
> but rolling like a ball :)
>
> My all time favorite was the Citroen. Back in the 60s they were not allowed
> on base because they were such unsafe pieces of sh*t.
>
>
I seem to recall something about Rolls Royce using GM automatic
transmissions.
TDD
[email protected] wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 19:06:44 -0800 (PST), Robatoy
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Dec 19, 8:28 pm, The Daring Dufas <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>> Zootal wrote:
>>>> "Nate Nagel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>>>>>> Smitty Two wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>>> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Jules wrote:
>>>>>>>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>>>>>>>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>>>>>>>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>>>>>>>> spaceships.
>>>>>>> The Europeans have yet to make a reliable car.
>>>>>> Lookie what I just tripped over. A 4 wheeled self propelled British
>>>>>> bonfire. *snicker*
>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/y8jrrhf
>>>>>> TDD
>>>>> Odd then that I've had German cars as my daily drivers from roughly 1998
>>>>> up until four years ago (when I got a company car.) I miss my cheap
>>>>> German beaters, much higher quality and fewer annoyances than the brand
>>>>> new American cars I've been driving since.
>>>>> Still have the last of the beaters, a Porsche 944. If you told me I had
>>>>> to be halfway across the country as soon as possible, I'd prefer to drive
>>>>> that over the two year old Impala that shares driveway space with it.
>>>>> (today, that would be an even easier choice as I have snow tires on the
>>>>> Porsche but crappy all-seasons on the Impala)
>>>>> nate
>>>> I used to work for a Peugeot dealer many years ago. Peugeots were not too
>>>> bad, for European made cars. They actually had quite a few American parts in
>>>> them. The power steering pumps were Saginaws, right out of Michigan. We ship
>>>> them to France, the French paint Peugeot on them and they then cost three
>>>> times as much. Go figure.Their diesel engines will self-destruct if you over
>>>> heat them even once, but they will last a long time otherwise. Their gas
>>>> engine cars are pigs - absolute pigs. The gas powered 604 was a disastor.
>>>> Today they make the Ion. Can't find a parking spot? No problem, pick the car
>>>> up, fold it a few times and stick it in your pocket. Don't ever leave it
>>>> parked on a hill because it will start rolling. Not rolling on the wheels,
>>>> but rolling like a ball :)
>>>> My all time favorite was the Citroen. Back in the 60s they were not allowed
>>>> on base because they were such unsafe pieces of sh*t.
>>> I seem to recall something about Rolls Royce using GM automatic
>>> transmissions.
>>>
>>> TDD
>> Yup. Turbos
>> http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o290/Robatoy/oOl93.jpg
> When RR first started using the Hydramatic they thought they needed
> to "clean it up a bit" so they did some modifications to bring it up
> to RR standasrds - and it wouldn't shift worth squat. Apparently they
> made some parts TOO SMOOTH. From then on they just used what "the
> general" supplied - just like it went into a Chevy.
I guess GM had already put in a million man hours and spent a billion
on R&D?
TDD
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>> I seem to recall something about Rolls Royce using GM automatic
>> transmissions.
>>
>
> Possible. Jaguar did. I fellow I used to work with was restoring a Jag and
> bough a lot of parts fromt he GM dealer at half the price fromthe Jag
> dealer.
>
Older Jags used the Detroit Gear DG-250 which was originally made for
Studebaker. Probably one of the best slushboxes ever made, although
still sacrilege in a Jag.
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
On 12/19/2009 23:00, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>>
>> I seem to recall something about Rolls Royce using GM automatic
>> transmissions.
>>
>
> Possible. Jaguar did. I fellow I used to work with was restoring a Jag and
> bough a lot of parts fromt he GM dealer at half the price fromthe Jag
> dealer.
>
>
>
Friend used to own a Jaguar/MG dealership. Both were totally unreliable
vehicles because of the poor quality components they used. He was
constantly towing in new and relatively new Jaguars that broke down.
They were state owned for a long time. He told me about how he went over
to see the plants and they were still using antique/inefficient
equipment such as manually operated block and tackle etc to move
assemblies.
At some point (maybe when they were denationalized) they started using
GM transmissions and Delco electrical and A/C components.
Jules wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 23:00:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>>> I seem to recall something about Rolls Royce using GM automatic
>>> transmissions.
>> Possible. Jaguar did.
>
> And Jensen... far easier to buy a slushbox in from a country that
> used them in the vast majority of vehicles, I suppose. Shame it
> didn't work both ways and the US didn't import manual 'boxes from
> Europe!
>
Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Jensen use MoPar power? Far more
likely in that case that they used the TF727 rather than try to make a
GM trans fit a Chrysler engine (although it's been done before; e.g.
65-66 Studebaker used special bellhousings to fit Studebaker/Ford
transmissions to GM engines...)
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
On 2009-12-17, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> You obviously never owned one ... the original was one of the most
> reliable automobiles ever made and their longevity is ample proof of
> that "reliability".
....if you never left the village.
Something putting out 36bhp is not meant for highway speeds, no matter
how good the design or quality. My '60 had fully loaded semi's
passing me on the upgrade and there are still more '50 Chevy pickups
on CA highways than '60 bugs. When I got tired of reparing it and
finally sold my bug, it had to be towed away.
nb
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>>>
>> My son's calculus teacher asked the students , how to do, a problem,
>> she could not figure it out.
>
> Could they figure it out? If so then she had done her job well. When a
> student can do something the teacher can't then the teacher has succeeded.
Ok,,,, I can see how you and I are not going to agree on anything here now.
My son did not figure it out, he showed her how to solve the problem, he
knew because he studied the night before. She and most of the class was
lost on the next problem also. End of class perticipation for that day.
>> I was making a compairison, cigaretts/cancer, It started with
>> restrictions, then came the bureaucrat crap and eventually the cancer
>> spread to the teachers.
>
> I'm not following you.
Then I'll not go any farther with that.
>
>>> However the teachers are not the cause. They don't make the
>>> decisions. They don't make the policies.
>>
>> Don't recall saying the teachers were the cause but they have been
>> sucked in and have become part of the problem. The kids are more
>> intelligent than most of the teachers these days in the HISD.
>
> I was more intelligent than most of my teachers through high school back
> in
> the '60s, or thought I was. I did know more about quite a lot. But they
> were doing what was required of them.
Required of them? ... I went to school in the 60's and I recall my teachers
being pretty smart and they all had their own style. Some times it was
spare the rod, some time it was not.
>
>>> You could staff the schools with a who's who of American leadership
>>> and they
>>> wouldn't be any better than they are now because they'd be operating
>>> under the same rules.
>>
>> That is right and the good ones eventually leave. Those that can't do
>> anything else or are in it for the benefits remain.
>>
>>>
>>> When there's something wrong with a huge organization, it's not the
>>> peons at
>>> the bottom who are causing it.
>>
>> Correct, not the cause but do become part of the problem.
>>
>>>
>>>> The HS my son went to was an exception to the norm, that school had
>>>> "good" teachers and there was not a discipline problem.
>>>
>>> And this is symptomatic of the problem. Every parent knows that the
>>> schools
>>> are broken, but the one that their little darling went to was an
>>> exception.
>>
>> The only decent ones my son went to was the private school K-2 and
>> the HS 9-12, the other 3 sucked.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>> That public
>>>> HS was by invitation only. The only requirement to be invited to
>>>> attend that school was that you needed to have a "Satisfactory"
>>>> average, for conduct, that's it. If a student became a discipline
>>>> problem they were warned once and the second time transferred to one
>>>> of the other HS's in the district.
>>>
>>> So the teachers at that school weren't any better than the ones in
>>> the other
>>> schools, they just made the problem kids somebody else's problem.
>>> So do you
>>> think that those same teachers would have done nearly as well at one
>>> of the
>>> other schools?
>>
>> Yeah they were better teachers. There was a waiting list for them to
>> get into the school. Problem kids were few and very far in between.
>> My son knew of "1" in the school, a frined of his, and he tas
>> transferred out.
> How do you know they were better teachers? Do you have results of some
> kind
> of teaching competition or something?
Absolutely have results. Look at "all" of the graduating classes that have
come out of that school. Consider also that the kids that went to that
school came from the same system and none of them were there because of good
grades. Coming out of that school they excelled compared to the other high
schools in the districe. Common sense would tell you that the teachers did
a better job.
>
>>>> When my son began at that HS the school had grades 9-12. In all
>>>> four grade levels there were only 650 students. I would estimate
>>>> that in the other 3 HS's that there were in excess of 10K and that
>>>> is a very conservative estimate. Out of all of those students
>>>> approximately 150 were invited each year to attend Kerr HS.
>>>
>>> And from that you conclude that the _teachers_ at those other
>>> schools are the problem?
>>
>> "Part" of the problem and the ones we delt with, 3-8 grades seem
>> comfortable with that. They did not care for 3 way meetings with the
>> principal however.
>
> I'm curious about what those meetings were typically about,.
One I recall specifically was with the 7th grade Science teacher that my
son had. A specific assignment given on a syllabus on a Monday was due on
Monday of the following week. The next day on Tuesday the class was unruly.
As punishment, that week long assignment would be due the following day. My
son came home from school and immediately went to work tying to complete the
assignment. The following day the teacher asked the students for the
assignment and about half of the students turned their work in. The teacher
asked those that did turn in the assignment who thought that they did a
good job on the assignment. My son raised his hand and she promptly picked
up his assignment from her desk, declared it trash, and threw it in the
trash, ungraded.
The Science teacher Ms. Delesbore, Ollie Middle School, AISD, met with my
wife and I and the principal. We arrived at the principals office
unannounced and told her of the circumstances, She in turn summoned the
teacher and we waited for her to come to the principals office. She had
absolutely no defense and immediately apologized for her inappropriate
actions.
>
>>>> Kerr HS taught the kids how to prepare for college every day. There
>>>> was no week off to study for the TAAS test, which is a Texas thing
>>>> to judge how the students are coming along for their grade level.
>>>> His middle school took a week every year to review for that test.
>>>> IIRC the year my son graduated 95% of the students had been
>>>> accepted to a college. IIRC 87% of those students had been awarded
>>>> scholarships of $15K or more.
>>
>> And this is because the teachers were so brilliant you think.
>>
>> I would not say brillinat so much as above average and the teachers
>> had nothing to do with obtaining the scolarships. That was all on
>> the kids to do the leg work.
>> The system was totally different in that school all the way up to the
>> principal. Teachers were allowed to teach and they did teach. And
>> yes most all of the teachers in that school were impressive, even to
>> the kids. Remember, the good teachers were lined up to get into Kerr.
>> They wanted to teach there, that came out at every PTA meeting.
>>
>> In the other schools the teachers reminded me of typical "government
>> workers", there for the benefits.
>> I know that their attitudes were not all their fault, the system is
>> to blame but many of those teachers were like many of the kids, lost.
>> You know when the system sucks badly enough and you cannot attract
>> good help because of that fact you settle for less than desirable to
>> fill the classrooms. That is what I saw.
>
> So we've got one school that cherry-picked the whole system and managed to
> do well for a handful of kids. So how do you make that work for the rest
> of
> the system?
>
>>>> I'm certain that the education that my son received at Kerr HS
>>>> played a very major roll in him transitioning so smoothly into
>>>> college. I recall the 10th graders mentoring the incoming 9th
>>>> graders and most of them were high achievers. Life transitioning
>>>> into Kerr HS was a bigger challenge for my son than going from that
>>>> HS into college. I am also certain that Kerr HS played a major
>>>> part in my son getting into the Honors College his first year at
>>>> the university and graduating with a 4 year average GPA of 3.87.
>>>
>>> And all of this you attribute to the excellence of the teachers and
>>> not to the district policies that allowed the school to cherry-pick
>>> students?
>>
>> Do you call only accepting students with at least "Satisfactory"
>> conduct grade cherry picking?
>
> Did they accept every student in the district who had such a grade?
Every student with a Satisfactory conduct grade. The school, during my sons
first year, was enlarged to accept an addition 500 or students for the next
year. The building was tiny to begin with, it was a small business prior to
being purchased by the school district and added as a HS. This school was
about 1/3 the size of a typical Sam's Club store, maybe. Befor my son
graduated, Taylor HS was built about 1/4 down the street. It looks like a
large shopping mall, probably 20 time larger than Kerr HS.
>
>> Let me mention also that younger
>> borthers and sisters were also accepted regardless of the conduct
>> grade.
>
> So what percentage of students in the district were these?
I don't have those figures but I would say well below 3-4 %. While the
school invited all the students with a Satisfactory conduct grade a majority
of the students did not want to attend because there were no sports or band
or not enough of their friends were going to go to Kerr. For the most part
the kids at Kerr HS wanted to be there.
Kerr Hw was/is a shining example of a system that works for the kids and the
staff.
On 2009-12-17, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Some of you guys need to learn to pay more attention to what's actually
> written.
You need to....
Nevermind. You won't.
nb
"Chris Friesen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Funny you mention Laguna...some of their stuff is made in China.
I suspect Tiawan, I could be wrong. Also Bulgaria, and Italy.
Leon wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient automobiles known
>> to mankind, and to this day the best selling car in history, hit the
>> ground running ... the "Volkswagen".
>
> I will have to disagree with you there. Kim and I bought a new 99 Jetta, it
> left her stranded on the freeway 3 times under warranty the first 18 months,
> and a dead battery replaced under warranty. That was the Mexico built
> vehicle. Towed into the dealership and "no problem found " on the 3 rd time
> we immediately traded for a German built 2000 Passat. We almost kept it 4
> years. While we had it, it left Kim stranded 2 times, once was a faulty
> starter relay, the second time another dead battery replaced by me. Then
> there were numerous emissions problems, the need to replace both outer tie
> rod ends at 30K, and the heater core at 43K. The transmission was showing
> signs of failure. Traded for the 04 Accord at 47K. Both vehicles were
> serviced more often than recommended by the dealer. The 99 Jetta and 2000
> Passat were serviced/oil changed at 3K VW recommended every 10K. After
> trading the Passat we got a factory letter rewording service intervals for
> the turbo, every 3K and with synthetic oil. I saw that coming.
>
> I bought the VW's on their past reputation.
The "Volkswagen", the original design, is what I was talking about. Not
the price point engineered models they started making to woo and placate
the American consumer with the junk they prefer.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 2009-12-19, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> He likely knows it is rare and is asking too much. They had the
> gutless little Typhoon F-Head 4 cyl in them.
I suspected road speed might have been another factor in its not
selling. Kinda like the very nice '52 Chevy p/u I owned and finally
sold due to it's 5.16:1 rear end that made 55mph a stretch. The
F-head (Hurricane) no doubt makes it even more rare, the only time
I've even seen one of these bizarre hermaphrodite engines being in our
HS auto shop, back when I didn't know a valve stem from a king pin.
nb
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:59:44 GMT, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2009-12-18, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Jeep made a cab-over pickup, which was pretty interesting.
>
>Yes! In fact, there's one for sale jes a few blocks from that VW
>bus/pickup I mentioned. The guy has had it up for sale since I moved
>here 2 yrs ago. I'm becoming more and more curious as to why it has
>never sold, this being major jeep country (CO Rockies @ 8K ft!).
>Price too high? Mech problems? I'd even consider buying it, it being
>so downright funky and rare. I should call him one of these days. ;)
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Forward_Control
>
>nb
He likely knows it is rare and is asking too much. They had the
gutless little Typhoon F-Head 4 cyl in them.
On 12/16/2009 5:56 PM, David Nebenzahl wrote:
> On 12/16/2009 3:03 PM Percival P. Cassidy spake thus:
>
>> David Nebenzahl wrote:
>>
>>> By way of showing just how wrong people can be when predicting
>>> who's winning the industrial game, here's a hilariously and
>>> astoundingly wrong prediction about the Japanese and American
>>> photographic industries from 1946:
>>> http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-136.html
>>
>> In UK in the late 1950s already, when I was becoming seriously
>> interested in photography, I don't think any American cameras were
>> considered high quality. The really good stuff was Leica (German) and
>> Hasselblad (Swedish? -- both mucho expensivo). Praktica (E. German)
>> was OK. Some of the Japanese brands were coming onto the market, IIRC.
>> I'm not sure that Kodak was considered a serious photographer's camera.
>
> Kodak did make some cameras used by serious photogs, even after the
> Japanese kicked our asses in that arena, but they were mostly obscure
> models used by specialists. Like their view (studio) cameras and lenses
> made for aerial photography, to name a couple. Their one top-of-the-line
> 35mm camera (the Ektra) was already out of production by that time.
> After that, about the best they could come up with were consumer-level
> cameras, like the Instamatic, which they did sell by the millions. But
> all high-quality stuff was, as you point out, either German (Leica,
> Voigtlander), Swedish (Hassy), or, mostly, Japanese (lessee: Nikon,
> Canon, Ricoh, Minolta, Miranda, Yashica, Olympus, Bronica, Fuji, etc., etc.
Having owned German optics for many years I can attest to their
superiority over the Japanese glass. However this comes at a
staggering cost. A great pro medium-format wide angle lens from Japan
may run around $2000 (or less). The equivalent Hasselblad Distagon
(German optics) is well over twice that. You are way out on the right
side of the price-quality curve where it goes asymptotic - you're paying
double or more to get perhaps 5% better performance, and then only in
the most demanding of cases.
> The single exception I can think of is the Graflex press cameras (Crown
> and Speed Graphics), made here in the US and used around the world up
> through the 1970s.
These were- and are- wonderful cameras. They're even better when you
throw away the coke bottle lenses (Ektars) that came with them and shove
a nice German Schneider onto the snout of the camera :)
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk [email protected]
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
>> David Nebenzahl wrote:
<snip>
As another poster said. They make what we ask them to make, or they make
what we will buy. I think the latter is the truer statement. If everybody
who said (myself included) "I am sick of buying cheap crap from China"
actually stopped buying cheap crap from China. They would make better crap.
How do we all stop buying stuff made in China. I have no idea. While
picking up the family Christmas cards at Wal-Mart tonight the kids wanted
Santa hats. $1.50 a piece - made in China. I bought 2, my Dunkins this
morning cost more.
To the poster who mentioned about how Japanese made used to be a joke. When
I was a kid, I am 46 now, my dad owned a NAPA store. I can remember the
comments when a customer came in to purchase parts for a Datsun or a Toyota.
The joke was the price of the replacement part would double the value of the
car. Not so much anymore.
Larry C
Steve wrote:
> On 2009-12-16 16:12:26 -0500, "[email protected]"
> <[email protected]> said:
>
>> Anyone who wants to sell anything in a competing market has to make it
>> as cheaply as can be done in Mexico, China, Bangladesh, etc....what
>> they make is done under an entirely different labor economy (and
>> socialized medicine, probably). But you know that already.
>
> This is called marketing to a price point. One interesting extension to
> this is Fender guitars -- how much to you want to pay for your Strat?
> Indonesian, Chinese, Korean, Mexican, or American?
>
> From the audience, they all look pretty much the same*. But to the
> experienced player...
>
> *Except for the ones "lovingly" aged, that is, and you'll pay dearly for
> someone beatin' the Hell out of your axe.
>
Hi,
Discerning hands and ears can tell. Actually real good hands can make
any axe sound good but it is more difficult. Only poor craftsman blames
the tool. BTW, I have quite a few vintage LP, Fender, Gibson, Martin,
etc. and Marshall, Fender, Boogie, etc. in my basement studio.
J. Clarke wrote:
>
> With regard to the "price point engineered models", those were not any
> cheaper to produce than the original Beetle--the reason they exist is that
> it was impossible to make the Beetle meet US emission and safety regulations
> without a major redesign (it was designed in 1936, remember--by the '60s it
> had already had a really good run). And the Beetle itself had been "price
> point engineered" from the outset.
Agreed on all counts ... but what superior "price point" engineering! :)
There was something intrinsically "elegant" about the engineering on the
original Porsche designed VW ... akin to a three line algorithm taking
the place of a thousand lines of code, if you know what I mean.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
notbob wrote:
> A perfectly example of you inability to mount a viable argument.
>
> Please.... continue to make a fool of yourself.
Yeah right ... you're way too easy, dude. It's been fun, but I'm going
to make some sawdust now that it's warmed up a bit.
Enjoy continuing to talk into that mirror ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient automobiles known
> to mankind, and to this day the best selling car in history, hit the
> ground running ... the "Volkswagen".
I will have to disagree with you there. Kim and I bought a new 99 Jetta, it
left her stranded on the freeway 3 times under warranty the first 18 months,
and a dead battery replaced under warranty. That was the Mexico built
vehicle. Towed into the dealership and "no problem found " on the 3 rd time
we immediately traded for a German built 2000 Passat. We almost kept it 4
years. While we had it, it left Kim stranded 2 times, once was a faulty
starter relay, the second time another dead battery replaced by me. Then
there were numerous emissions problems, the need to replace both outer tie
rod ends at 30K, and the heater core at 43K. The transmission was showing
signs of failure. Traded for the 04 Accord at 47K. Both vehicles were
serviced more often than recommended by the dealer. The 99 Jetta and 2000
Passat were serviced/oil changed at 3K VW recommended every 10K. After
trading the Passat we got a factory letter rewording service intervals for
the turbo, every 3K and with synthetic oil. I saw that coming.
I bought the VW's on their past reputation.
Maybe my first VW's were a fluke but I'll probably never buy another.
>
> Sheessh, it's sad, this total failure of the educational system and the
> resultant ignorance!
Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers that
don't give a shit and that finally led to teachers that could not find a job
any where else. Long ago when teachers could step in as a parent and
administer discipline he or she could actually teach. We have lost teachers
that actually taught for baby sitters.
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 11:57:13 -0600, Jules
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:45:33 +0000, notbob wrote:
>
>> On 2009-12-18, Peter Huebner <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> And, talking of reliable European cars, I've known quite a few series 2
>>> Volvos that cracked half a million kilometres ... Now that Ford are
>>> messing with the Volvo design I think that will not be the case any
>>> more, I won't buy another Volvo designed & built since 2006. Currently
>>> driving an 850 wagon and an XC70. Wonderful cars to drive, but lots of
>>> little things go wrong all of the time :-(
>>
>> Even the supposedly best of them ...Mercedes and BMW.... are not
>> without flaws. My buddies SL head gasket leaks oil like the Exxon Vadez and its
>> paint went just as quickly as my same year Civic in the scorching CA
>> sun. Another friend's BMW dash upholstery split open like ripe puffball, and it
>> only 8 yrs old. I've seen brand new Mercedes with orange peel paint
>> to rival the worst from detroit.
>
>I think the important part is in distinguishing between design issues and
>manufacturing ones - i.e. whether there's something fundamentally bad
>about the design, or if the fault lies with the way they're put together.
>I'm not sure if you can say that a "European car" is bad if the faults are
>all on the assembly side, and that assembly is done locally to the country
>where the car is sold.
>
>> I'm stunned to find how popular Buicks are. Talked to a Fifth Ave owner
>> who had 350K miles without a hiccup.
>
>Wonder what the record currently is and who holds it? Back in the '80s I
>think Mercedes had it for one of their diesels, but that was a loooong
>time ago now.
>
>cheers
>
>Jules
The record for Tacicab service was a 1963 Plymouth.Fury owned and
driven by Joseph Vaillancourt of Montreal Canada with 1,621,591 miles
on the clock when Joe and the cab retired a couple years ago.. I
believe that is a record for the highest number of miles on a car in
North America.
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:13:28 -0600, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>>>>
>>>> I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318. Did most of
>>>> my own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like was
>>>> setting the points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm)
>>>> and trying to start either if a neighborhood dog peed within a block or
>>>> so while the engine was turning over ...
>>>
>>>
>>> They made a header for the slant 6??
>>
>> Yes, but
>>
>> My bad. Head was thinking exhaust manifold and fingers were busy thinking
>> about after market parts.
>
>Was your exhaust manifold cracked. IIRC that was a problem with that
>engine. When cold the engine exhaust manifold was kinda noisy and quietened
>up when it got hot.
>
They really only cracked if they were overtorqued. Usually started
with a loose manifold and a burned gasket - so it was tighteded trying
to fix the gasket leak - which then cracked the manifold.. I know - I
replaced lots of them back then. Including ONE of my own.
>>
>>>
>>> Here hold my beer and watch this!
>>>
>>> My buddy was given his mother's Beige 4 door 65 Dodge Coronet. Slant 6,
>>> auto trans. That thing was full race and looked the part. OR NOT!.
>>> One cold night we were out kinda late in Corpus Christi sipping on a
>>> couple of large screw top bottles of beer. Brand, did not matter.
>>
>> If it was Lone Star ...
>
>I believe you are right.... MY BIL was the VP of the local Lone Star
>distributorship.
>
>
>>
>>> We were going down the freeway with darn little traffic so we are going
>>> about 70.
>>>
>>> My buddy looked over at me and said, watch this. He reached up grabbed
>>> the shift lever, and yanked it down all the way into low. The engine
>>> roared and we suddenly slowed down.
But it only downshifted into second. To get it into low required
hitting the brakes and the accellerator to get the driveshaft speed
down (by sliding the rear wheels) and the throttle pressure up (by
flooring the accellerator. With my 63 set up the way I had it
(206RWHP) I could force it into low at about 58MPH, but no higher -
and it would do 60 in 1st if I held it in.
>>
>> And?
>
>That's it the engine roared and we slowed down. That was an industrial
>engine used on other applications other than automitive and they could be
>abused. Back then was also when the Chrysler products had bullet proof
>transmissions also. Remember the commericals where the guy floors the
>accelerator pedal and does what my froend did except he goes from D to R and
>back to D. Close up of the smokin rear tire shows it reversing dirrections
>a couple of times.
The 727 was good for "fish-hooks" at about 20MPH on a 318 or 383.
As foir the engine, it was USED as an industrial engine, but it was
DESIGNED as an automotive powerplant - actually for the Valiant (first
application of the slant six engine)
>
>That car was our "tank" It saw a lot of action in local farmers corn
>fields.
>
>
>
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:41:21 -0600, Jules
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:10:14 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>> I had an old bus ('65 w/a Super Beetle engine) that I drove from coast
>> to coast. It finally died, but nearly everything bad that happened to it
>> was my fault, even though I otherwise took very good care of it.
>
>Question: did they ever sell the truck version in the US? (think bus
>but with most of the roof chopped off and a load bed in the back).
Yup - Transporter.
>Couple of my uncles had those as farm trucks in the early 70s (because
>they were cheap, easy to fix and they never needed them to be fast or
>go long distances, I suppose). There can't have been many manufacturers
>offering rear-engined pickups. Not seen one on the road for years, though.
>
>cheers
>
>Jules
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:10:36 -0600, The Daring Dufas
<[email protected]> wrote:
>notbob wrote:
>> On 2009-12-18, Stormin Mormon <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> 318 was a pain, I may still have my 12 point distributor
>>> wrench. 9/16 was it?
>>
>> Depends on the vehicle. I had a 318 in a 74 van. When the weather
>> became very hot (100+), specially after they took the lead out of gas,
>> it would ping badly going up a grade. I timed it by removing the
>> engine shroud, loosening the distibutor clamp nut, and adjusting the
>> distributor until the pinging ceased. All this while driving up said
>> grade, the distributor being a within easy reach of my right hand.
>>
>>> I remember my Mopars being very moisture sensetive. Even
>>> knowing the module ground and all, somtimes they just didn't
>>> want to start if there was some humidity around. Or rain the
>>> day before.
>>
>> I had this happen once. I removed the distibutor cap and saw it was
>> literally dripping moisture. I liberally sprayed it and the points
>> with WD40 and reassembled. Fired right up. The WD stands for water
>> displacement.
>>
>> nb
>
>The secret was to carry an extra "dual ballast resistor" in the glove
>box for all the Mopars with the electronic ignition. I had several
>go out and it was a 10 minute or less repair job.
>
>TDD
My spare was always bolted to the firewall. Just move the plugs from
one to the other and away you go - to the parts store to replace the
"spare"
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:28:35 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>No new text?
I used to wash my slant sixes in the carwash -engiine running or
engine off, and just hose the entire engine down, and they would
ALWAYS either stay running or restart without problems.
I used good wires (Silver Beauty MSW) and premium caps.
[email protected] wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 12:10:36 -0600, The Daring Dufas
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> notbob wrote:
>>> On 2009-12-18, Stormin Mormon <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> 318 was a pain, I may still have my 12 point distributor
>>>> wrench. 9/16 was it?
>>> Depends on the vehicle. I had a 318 in a 74 van. When the weather
>>> became very hot (100+), specially after they took the lead out of gas,
>>> it would ping badly going up a grade. I timed it by removing the
>>> engine shroud, loosening the distibutor clamp nut, and adjusting the
>>> distributor until the pinging ceased. All this while driving up said
>>> grade, the distributor being a within easy reach of my right hand.
>>>
>>>> I remember my Mopars being very moisture sensetive. Even
>>>> knowing the module ground and all, somtimes they just didn't
>>>> want to start if there was some humidity around. Or rain the
>>>> day before.
>>> I had this happen once. I removed the distibutor cap and saw it was
>>> literally dripping moisture. I liberally sprayed it and the points
>>> with WD40 and reassembled. Fired right up. The WD stands for water
>>> displacement.
>>>
>>> nb
>> The secret was to carry an extra "dual ballast resistor" in the glove
>> box for all the Mopars with the electronic ignition. I had several
>> go out and it was a 10 minute or less repair job.
>>
>> TDD
> My spare was always bolted to the firewall. Just move the plugs from
> one to the other and away you go - to the parts store to replace the
> "spare"
The ballast resistors that went bad on me were the open back units.
The sealed units seemed to last forever.
TDD
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 09:32:50 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>I remember when I was a real little kid my dad had an old
>beater
>Valiant - I think it was a '64 or thereabouts. He was
>always having
>problems with the carburetor on it... years later I dated a
>girl with
>a '69, that car had a Holley 1bbl and it too had issues.
>Replaced the
>carb with a Carter and it ran splendiferously ever after.
>
>CY: Those carbs were interesting, you could actually adjust
>them. I found the adjustment that worked for me was lightly
>closed, and then out 3 half turns. The vacuum lines always
>wanted to fall off. If the vac line fell off (the one to the
>air cleaner) the car ran poorly.
>
>
>Only
>problems with it after that point were a ballast resistor
>that failed,
>
>CY: And the engine didn't run. I learned to carry spare
>ballast resistors. As also did most Chrysler owners.
The ones that burned ballast resistors were the early electronics -
dual ballast units.
>
>and the fact that the points would burn just about every 9
>mos. like
>clockwork (maybe due to a off spec replacement ballast?)
>
>CY: Burning points is typically due to bad condensor. They
>are replaced as a set.
>
>
>then she had
>to have the head redone because she didn't adjust the valves
>(probably
>ever) and burned one.
>
>CY: Most likely, never. Few people do.
>
>Other than that it was a very reliable car,
>wish I had it today.
>
>CY: A starter and alternator every year and a half?
>
>nate
>
On 2009-12-18, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jeep made a cab-over pickup, which was pretty interesting.
Yes! In fact, there's one for sale jes a few blocks from that VW
bus/pickup I mentioned. The guy has had it up for sale since I moved
here 2 yrs ago. I'm becoming more and more curious as to why it has
never sold, this being major jeep country (CO Rockies @ 8K ft!).
Price too high? Mech problems? I'd even consider buying it, it being
so downright funky and rare. I should call him one of these days. ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Forward_Control
nb
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:41:21 -0600, Jules
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:10:14 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
>> I had an old bus ('65 w/a Super Beetle engine) that I drove from coast
>> to coast. It finally died, but nearly everything bad that happened to it
>> was my fault, even though I otherwise took very good care of it.
>
>Question: did they ever sell the truck version in the US? (think bus
>but with most of the roof chopped off and a load bed in the back).
>
>Couple of my uncles had those as farm trucks in the early 70s (because
>they were cheap, easy to fix and they never needed them to be fast or
>go long distances, I suppose). There can't have been many manufacturers
>offering rear-engined pickups. Not seen one on the road for years, though.
>
>cheers
>
>Jules
Yes, they were sold in the US. Chevy had a corvair pickup with a rear
engine.
Jeep made a cab-over pickup, which was pretty interesting.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
Snip
>>
>> I bought the VW's on their past reputation.
>
> The "Volkswagen", the original design, is what I was talking about. Not
> the price point engineered models they started making to woo and placate
> the American consumer with the junk they prefer.
Exactly!
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 10/22/08
> KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:37:13 -0800, "LDosser" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Somebody wrote:
>>
>>> Now that Ford are
>>> messing with the Volvo design I think that will not be the case any
>>> more, I won't buy another Volvo designed & built since 2006.
>>
>> FoMoCo wasn't too shabby in the way they cleaned up Jaguar.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>And GM is cleaning up Saab ...
With a broom and a dustpan???
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 17:42:58 +1300, Peter Huebner
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, sails.man2
>@verizon.net says...
>>
>> Somebody wrote:
>>
>> > Now that Ford are
>> > messing with the Volvo design I think that will not be the case any
>> > more, I won't buy another Volvo designed & built since 2006.
>>
>> FoMoCo wasn't too shabby in the way they cleaned up Jaguar.
>>
>> Lew
>
>Yes, I understand things at BMC went pretty shitty for a long time.
>
>But:
>To give you an example: the straight5 Volvo engines at 2 or 2.4 litres
>with a turbo are great. Quite economical, and capable to turning a 2t
>brick shithouse of a car into a 'pocket rocket'. I start overtaking some
>slow-poke at 50mph, by the time I pass his bonnet I'm doing 75mph and
>that's without taking a run-up or anything.
>
>Now Ford/Volvo has seen fit as of 2007 to put a petrol guzzling 3.2
>litre engine into the new XC70ies. It doesn't fscking NEED that, it'll
>just be a drain on the wallet ... and quite possibly not as good a
>motor.
>
>I don't like Ford any more. They sold me what turned out to be a Ford-
>rebadged Shibaura tractor, made from crap steel that rotted like
>nobody's business within a few years. Some friends drove a Ford-rebadged
>Mazda that spent more time in the shop than on the road ... nah. My
>local mechanic says the more recent Ford engines are crap in his
>opinion, and I won't argue.
>
>f.w.i.w.
>
>If they're going to start reselling Mazdas rebadged as Volvos, then I
>might as well go and buy Japanese at half the price in the first place;
>hell, I can buy 3 Korean 'luxury vehicles' for the price of one Volvo
>for that matter, plus, I'd go Toyota over Mazda any old day of the week.
>
>Anyhow, getting way off topic here now ;-)
>
>-P.
Toyota and Honda are about tie at the top of the Japanese list, with
Mazda a distant but rizing third - Subaru holding onto 4th and Nissan
a more distant 5th, and Mitsushitty digging themselves out of last
place. Somewhere down close to the bottom you have Suzuki bouncing
around too.
On the world market Daihatsu holds a pretty good position too.
Then there's the Koreans - Definitely coming up fast after Toyota and
Honda's lunch!!!!!
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:37:13 -0800, "LDosser" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> Somebody wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now that Ford are
>>>> messing with the Volvo design I think that will not be the case any
>>>> more, I won't buy another Volvo designed & built since 2006.
>>>
>>> FoMoCo wasn't too shabby in the way they cleaned up Jaguar.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>And GM is cleaning up Saab ...
> With a broom and a dustpan???
ShopVac
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>> Crap Lew, I am bored so I am going to come back with an answer that you
>> are going to "owe me one" for. I'll be prepairing to duck.
>>
>> Why would I need an electric hot water heater? ;~)
>
>
> I give up.
>
> Lew
"hot" water heater? I only need a "water heater". ;!) Iknow, I know, it
reheats relatively hot water, but would a hot water heater work if it were
full of cold water?
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 07:50:17 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, "J. Clarke"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> As for European engineering in general, anybody who thinks that it's
>>> all high quality hasn't fettled a brand new British-made Stanley
>>> shoulder plane.
>>
>> Or owned a Fiat...
>
>I'm the original owner of my 1973 Fiat 124 Spyder. It was my only car until
>recently. It has been driven down steam beds in Mexico, over mountains,
>across deserts, etc. It still runs and looks great. Biggest problem I've
>had with it is "mechanics" screwing up stuff; surprising since it is so
>mechanically simple but they manage.
Many years ago I had a Fiat 124 Spyder. I called it the Fiat 124
Lemon. I did buy it used so perhaps it was just maintained terribly,
but almost every other week something went wrong. The alternator died,
the string operating the clutch broke, the transmission developed
problems, and just endless crap.
I guess it just depends on when it got put together.
Smitty Two wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Jules wrote:
>>
>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are
>>> talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>> spaceships.
>
> The Europeans have yet to make a reliable car.
WHAT??? LOL ... surely you jest??
Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient automobiles
known to mankind, and to this day the best selling car in history, hit
the ground running ... the "Volkswagen".
Sheessh, it's sad, this total failure of the educational system and the
resultant ignorance!
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Jules wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 09:38:46 -0800, Robatoy wrote:
>
>> On Dec 19, 12:01 pm, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On 2009-12-19, LDosser <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And GM is cleaning up Saab ...
>>> Did Saab really fall THAT FAR!?
>>>
>>> My parents owned (later passed dwn to me) a '68 Saab Monte Carlo w/
>>> the Ford designed V-4 engine. I've owned and driven a lot of GM iron
>>> and have never seen anything even in the same parallel universe as
>>> good as that old Saab. A brilliant car.
>>>
>>> nb
>>
>> I have played. wrenched, hated and enjoyed a whole myriad of european
>> cars. When I lived in Toronto, I had a garage with a full-size pit.
>> (The next owner had to have it filled, residential bylaws and all that
>> shit) A lot of co-workers and friends used it to change their oil and
>> worked on brakes, mufflers etc. One such co-worker had a love affair
>> with Saab. He had restored a two-stroke, that thing was a riot. It
>> went like stink (I think that's where the phrase originated as it
>> smelled quite bit with castrol racing oil in the gas)
>
> Yeah, I can believe that. I've know quite a few folk with old Saabs, and
> they were pretty reasonble cars.
>
>> A shame to see Saturn get reduced to Opels and then dropped
>> altogether.
>
> Is there a direct comparison with models from the two? My father over in
> England has a Vauxhall (essentially an Opel) Astra with a 6-speed manual
> 'box and whatever the largest engine is that they offer (I'd have to ask
> him).
>
> I borrowed and drove it as my daily driver for a few months before I moved
> to the US (I'd sold my own cars) and it handled itself pretty well on
> twisty roads, the 6-speed was pretty smooth, and the turbo on it was
> surprisingly good (I'd always been wary about vehicles with turbos, but I
> guess they've got better over the years).
>
> I know Saturn offered a model with exactly the same body style (although
> I couldn't care less about that - I generally dislike modern car styling)
> - but I've no idea if they offered the same drivetrain.
>
> cheers
>
> Jules
>
I've got a Saturn Astra that I bought recently. It's a horrible piece
of sh*t, IMHO. I don't expect to have it for long.
On Dec 19, 12:01=A0pm, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2009-12-19, LDosser <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > And GM is cleaning up Saab ...
>
> Did Saab really fall THAT FAR!?
>
> My parents owned (later passed dwn to me) a '68 Saab Monte Carlo w/
> the Ford designed V-4 engine. =A0I've owned and driven a lot of GM iron
> and have never seen anything even in the same parallel universe as
> good as that old Saab. =A0A brilliant car.
>
> nb =A0
I have played. wrenched, hated and enjoyed a whole myriad of european
cars. When I lived in Toronto, I had a garage with a full-size pit.
(The next owner had to have it filled, residential bylaws and all that
shit) A lot of co-workers and friends used it to change their oil and
worked on brakes, mufflers etc. One such co-worker had a love affair
with Saab. He had restored a two-stroke, that thing was a riot. It
went like stink (I think that's where the phrase originated as it
smelled quite bit with castrol racing oil in the gas) He and his wife
drove new Saabs and I had the pleasure to drive those magnificent cars
on more than one occasion.
For the longest time, Saabs would give Audis, MiniCoopers and Volvo a
pretty good run on the Rallye circuit.
Great cars and a crying shame to see them go. A shame to see Saturn
get reduced to Opels and then dropped altogether. A shame to see
Pontiac get dropped as well...although not so much.
I have, for sale, a 1996 Saturn SC1 with 270,000 KM on it... all it
ever needed was 2 sets of tires and a brake job. Always starts, A/C
always cold, never a problem. Never. The interior.. well it is kinda
falling apart, seats are shot etc.
On 2009-12-20, Jules <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 09:38:46 -0800, Robatoy wrote:
>> with Saab. He had restored a two-stroke, that thing was a riot. It
>
> Yeah, I can believe that. I've know quite a few folk with old Saabs, and
> they were pretty reasonble cars.
Despite being in a couple sports car clubs, some as early as '58 (my
parents), I've never driven or seen a Saab 2-stroke up close (3 cyl,
no less!). The only time was in USAF boot camp in TX when we were
taking a 5 min ciggy break on the drill field. Slowly, in the
distance, we heard a gawdawful din slowly approaching. As it came
closer, still unseen, the volume and horrific noise steadily
increased. It sounded like a ...what? Army tank? Old diesel semi
hauling slop from the chow hall? Old Johnny Popper with bad cylinder.
Finally, the cacophony was so overwhelming, whole marching squads came
to a halt and every one of hundreds of heads and ears were turned in
the direction of the battlefield of thundering pops and bangs.
Slowly, an old rat Saab lumbered into view, about a hundred yards
away. Couldn't have been moving at more than 10 mph, but sounded like
an artillery barrage at its height. I think, for a second, I was the
only one who realized it was that 2 cycle Saab with no muffler
whatsoever. Hilarious.
nb
In article <[email protected]>, sails.man2
@verizon.net says...
>
> Somebody wrote:
>
> > Now that Ford are
> > messing with the Volvo design I think that will not be the case any
> > more, I won't buy another Volvo designed & built since 2006.
>
> FoMoCo wasn't too shabby in the way they cleaned up Jaguar.
>
> Lew
Yes, I understand things at BMC went pretty shitty for a long time.
But:
To give you an example: the straight5 Volvo engines at 2 or 2.4 litres
with a turbo are great. Quite economical, and capable to turning a 2t
brick shithouse of a car into a 'pocket rocket'. I start overtaking some
slow-poke at 50mph, by the time I pass his bonnet I'm doing 75mph and
that's without taking a run-up or anything.
Now Ford/Volvo has seen fit as of 2007 to put a petrol guzzling 3.2
litre engine into the new XC70ies. It doesn't fscking NEED that, it'll
just be a drain on the wallet ... and quite possibly not as good a
motor.
I don't like Ford any more. They sold me what turned out to be a Ford-
rebadged Shibaura tractor, made from crap steel that rotted like
nobody's business within a few years. Some friends drove a Ford-rebadged
Mazda that spent more time in the shop than on the road ... nah. My
local mechanic says the more recent Ford engines are crap in his
opinion, and I won't argue.
f.w.i.w.
If they're going to start reselling Mazdas rebadged as Volvos, then I
might as well go and buy Japanese at half the price in the first place;
hell, I can buy 3 Korean 'luxury vehicles' for the price of one Volvo
for that matter, plus, I'd go Toyota over Mazda any old day of the week.
Anyhow, getting way off topic here now ;-)
-P.
Funerals for dead cucumbers. The thought boggles the mind.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> warming. And, lets teach everyone how to have "safe" sex
>> by
>> rolling a condom on a cucumber before going to town.
>>
>
>I should think it would be better to simply explain that if
>they washed the
>cucumber properly first, there would be no need to slip a
>condom on it for
>safe sex...
It might be simpler, but it would be incorrect. Perhaps with
fatal
results.
[email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:46:02 -0800, "LDosser" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> "Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> In article <[email protected]>, "LDosser"
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318. Did most of my
>>>> own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like was setting
>>>> the
>>>> points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm)
>>> That'd be a pretty neat trick, considering that the distributor on a
>>> slant-six
>>> is half-way down the block on the passenger side, and the exhaust manifold
>>> is
>>> all the way at the top of the engine on the driver's side. You'd think
>>> that
>>> someone who'd done all that work on a slant-six would know where the
>>> distributor is.
>>
>> Long arms. They say memory is the first to go ... Anyone know what the hell
>> I was burning myself on?
>
> The edge of the rocker cover and the side of the cyl head. Or the oil
> filter.
>
> I ALWAYS pulled the distributor to do points on Slant Sixes. ALWAYS
> set to #1 TDC first too. And I did a LOT of them.
>
> My 170 always had the points set on a distributor machine to be sure
> there was no bounce or float at 6500 RPM - always used the Blue Streak
> High Performance points - the only kind that wouldn't either bounce,
> float, or break the spring. (206 RWHP through the push-button
> automatic at 6000 RPM ( 60+ in first, 90+ in second, and bury the
> speedo in third)
> It's the only car I've ever owned that I could redline in top gear.
I built a 170 slant six that came out of a 64 Valiant and dropped it in
a 65 Dart. I installed a 3/4 race cam and found the biggest one barrel
Holly carburetor I could find and that car would do 60 in first and 100
in second by holding the shifter in gear. It blew the stock muffler off
so I installed one of those Thrush mufflers. I replaced the little 13"
wheels with a set of 14 inchers and found a set of Firestone Grand Prix
radial tires and a set of heavy duty shocks. I had to beat the lip of
the front fenders out a little so the tires wouldn't rub. The car would
take a corner so hard that it snapped a front hub out of a brake drum.
At a wrecking yard, I found these huge finned drums and spindles on a
V8 Dart and installed those which solved the breakage and braking
problem. The car had a single master cylinder, ditched that and got
a dual master cylinder from a van. What I loved about my Mopars is that
I could get parts from different models and mix and match. It was a lot
of fun. It's been about four decades since I had that six cylinder
terror but I miss it more than any of them.
TDD
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Somebody wrote:
>
>> Now that Ford are
>> messing with the Volvo design I think that will not be the case any
>> more, I won't buy another Volvo designed & built since 2006.
>
> FoMoCo wasn't too shabby in the way they cleaned up Jaguar.
>
> Lew
>
>
>
>
And GM is cleaning up Saab ...
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:46:02 -0800, "LDosser" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>, "LDosser"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>I had several with the 225 slant six and one with the 318. Did most of my
>>>own work on them and all tune ups. Only thing I didn't like was setting
>>>the
>>>points on the slant six (exhaust header burns on fore arm)
>>
>> That'd be a pretty neat trick, considering that the distributor on a
>> slant-six
>> is half-way down the block on the passenger side, and the exhaust manifold
>> is
>> all the way at the top of the engine on the driver's side. You'd think
>> that
>> someone who'd done all that work on a slant-six would know where the
>> distributor is.
>
>
>Long arms. They say memory is the first to go ... Anyone know what the hell
>I was burning myself on?
The edge of the rocker cover and the side of the cyl head. Or the oil
filter.
I ALWAYS pulled the distributor to do points on Slant Sixes. ALWAYS
set to #1 TDC first too. And I did a LOT of them.
My 170 always had the points set on a distributor machine to be sure
there was no bounce or float at 6500 RPM - always used the Blue Streak
High Performance points - the only kind that wouldn't either bounce,
float, or break the spring. (206 RWHP through the push-button
automatic at 6000 RPM ( 60+ in first, 90+ in second, and bury the
speedo in third)
It's the only car I've ever owned that I could redline in top gear.
On 2009-12-19, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
> The only 5th Avenue worth buying is the candy bar, IMO.
LOL! ....agreed.
I got it free and sold it as soon as I got it running. I wasn't into
tuna-boats yet (which came later, with age), being a young turk and
sports car and motorcycle aficionado, then.
nb
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 09:38:46 -0800, Robatoy wrote:
> On Dec 19, 12:01Â pm, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 2009-12-19, LDosser <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > And GM is cleaning up Saab ...
>>
>> Did Saab really fall THAT FAR!?
>>
>> My parents owned (later passed dwn to me) a '68 Saab Monte Carlo w/
>> the Ford designed V-4 engine. Â I've owned and driven a lot of GM iron
>> and have never seen anything even in the same parallel universe as
>> good as that old Saab. Â A brilliant car.
>>
>> nb Â
>
>
> I have played. wrenched, hated and enjoyed a whole myriad of european
> cars. When I lived in Toronto, I had a garage with a full-size pit.
> (The next owner had to have it filled, residential bylaws and all that
> shit) A lot of co-workers and friends used it to change their oil and
> worked on brakes, mufflers etc. One such co-worker had a love affair
> with Saab. He had restored a two-stroke, that thing was a riot. It
> went like stink (I think that's where the phrase originated as it
> smelled quite bit with castrol racing oil in the gas)
Yeah, I can believe that. I've know quite a few folk with old Saabs, and
they were pretty reasonble cars.
> A shame to see Saturn get reduced to Opels and then dropped
> altogether.
Is there a direct comparison with models from the two? My father over in
England has a Vauxhall (essentially an Opel) Astra with a 6-speed manual
'box and whatever the largest engine is that they offer (I'd have to ask
him).
I borrowed and drove it as my daily driver for a few months before I moved
to the US (I'd sold my own cars) and it handled itself pretty well on
twisty roads, the 6-speed was pretty smooth, and the turbo on it was
surprisingly good (I'd always been wary about vehicles with turbos, but I
guess they've got better over the years).
I know Saturn offered a model with exactly the same body style (although
I couldn't care less about that - I generally dislike modern car styling)
- but I've no idea if they offered the same drivetrain.
cheers
Jules
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:54:23 -0600, cjt wrote:
> I've got a Saturn Astra that I bought recently. It's a horrible piece
> of sh*t, IMHO. I don't expect to have it for long.
:-) I really did like the drivetrain and handling on my father's one - but
the styling (both exterior and interior) I could certainly live without,
and the inside had a horrible "cheapest possible" feel about it; I suspect
it won't age well at all.
I'm not sure where they got the 6-speed from, whether it was developed
in-house or bought in from somewhere else. It did good on mileage; my work
was about 50 miles away and a mixture of small twisty lanes (i.e. lots of
braking and acceleration) and then fast roads (used to keep it on 90-100)
and I could still average 40mpg out of it.
I think that's perhaps the one thing I do like about modern vehicles; they
do generally fare better in terms of fuel use...
cheers
Jules
On 2009-12-19, LDosser <[email protected]> wrote:
> And GM is cleaning up Saab ...
Did Saab really fall THAT FAR!?
My parents owned (later passed dwn to me) a '68 Saab Monte Carlo w/
the Ford designed V-4 engine. I've owned and driven a lot of GM iron
and have never seen anything even in the same parallel universe as
good as that old Saab. A brilliant car.
nb
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 10:14:16 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>> Do the presently employed teachers do a good job teaching
>> the liberal agenda? Be dumb. Be compliant. Fear global
>> warming. And, lets teach everyone how to have "safe" sex by
>> rolling a condom on a cucumber before going to town.
>>
>
>I should think it would be better to simply explain that if they washed the
>cucumber properly first, there would be no need to slip a condom on it for
>safe sex...
It might be simpler, but it would be incorrect. Perhaps with fatal
results.
On 2009-12-19, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> The "Fifth Avenue" was a Chrysler.
> Buick's was the "Park Avenue"
DOH!
I should have caught that, having once owned a Chrysler 5th Ave (for
as it took me to sell it!). ;)
nb
"notbob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2009-12-19, [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> The "Fifth Avenue" was a Chrysler.
>> Buick's was the "Park Avenue"
>
> DOH!
>
> I should have caught that, having once owned a Chrysler 5th Ave (for
> as it took me to sell it!). ;)
>
> nb
The only 5th Avenue worth buying is the candy bar, IMO.
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:45:33 GMT, notbob <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2009-12-18, Peter Huebner <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> And, talking of reliable European cars, I've known quite a few series 2
>> Volvos that cracked half a million kilometres ... Now that Ford are
>> messing with the Volvo design I think that will not be the case any
>> more, I won't buy another Volvo designed & built since 2006. Currently
>> driving an 850 wagon and an XC70. Wonderful cars to drive, but lots of
>> little things go wrong all of the time :-(
>
>Even the supposedly best of them ...Mercedes and BMW.... are not
>without flaws. My buddies SL head gasket leaks oil like the Exxon Vadez and its
>paint went just as quickly as my same year Civic in the scorching CA
>sun. Another friend's BMW dash upholstery split open like ripe puffball, and it
>only 8 yrs old. I've seen brand new Mercedes with orange peel paint
>to rival the worst from detroit. Having recently moved here to CO,
>I'm stunned to find how popular Buicks are. Talked to a Fifth Ave
>owner who had 350K miles without a hiccup. Quality is where you find
>it and not necessarily from where you expect it.
>
>nb
>
The "Fifth Avenue" was a Chrysler.
Buick's was the "Park Avenue"
>
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:39:07 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
> This post is aimed at all you sinophobes out there.
>
> I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of
> shit: what do you expect? It's made in China!".
They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are
talented folk there, same as anywhere else - but if people want to pay
for crap that breaks after a few months so that they then have to go
out and buy more crap, then that's what the Chinese will happily make...
Problem is, *everyone* does it. It's almost impossible for a company to
exist on the basis of making a 'quality' product any more - which means
that even if the individual wants to pay extra for something that'll last,
the product simply doesn't exist.
cheers
Jules
[email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:16:16 -0600, Jules
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 23:00:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>>>> I seem to recall something about Rolls Royce using GM automatic
>>>> transmissions.
>>> Possible. Jaguar did.
>> And Jensen... far easier to buy a slushbox in from a country that
>> used them in the vast majority of vehicles, I suppose. Shame it
>> didn't work both ways and the US didn't import manual 'boxes from
>> Europe!
> The Jensen Innterceptor used Mopar power-train - engine and tranny.
>
> ANd the Americans have imported a LOT of Euro manual gearboxes. Lots
> of ZF bockes in recent American tin.
That makes sense, there's not much of a market in the US for row it
yourself gearboxes. Although the Tremec TKO seems to be a good trans;
if I had the $$ I'd be looking into one of those for my Stude as it
seems to be one of the few 5-speeds available that's not a truck trans
and will handle the torque of a good V-8
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:16:16 -0600, Jules
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 23:00:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>>>
>>> I seem to recall something about Rolls Royce using GM automatic
>>> transmissions.
>>
>> Possible. Jaguar did.
>
>And Jensen... far easier to buy a slushbox in from a country that
>used them in the vast majority of vehicles, I suppose. Shame it
>didn't work both ways and the US didn't import manual 'boxes from
>Europe!
The Jensen Innterceptor used Mopar power-train - engine and tranny.
ANd the Americans have imported a LOT of Euro manual gearboxes. Lots
of ZF bockes in recent American tin.
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 09:45:36 -0600, "HeyBub" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Smitty Two wrote:
>>
>> The original VW bug was inexpensive to buy, and relatively inexpensive
>> to repair. That is hardly the same as being reliable.
>
>Yeah, but how many cars come with a tool kit? Admittedly, the tool kit
>wasn't much. It consisted of a cylinder with two socket ends (which fit
>virtually every nut on the car), two screwdrivers, a pair of pliers, and a
>metal rod used to turn the socket cylinder.
>
Early Toyotas all came with tool kits, and the "worst car sold in
Canada", the LADA, came with a FULL tool kit.
In general you needed it, and needed to know how to use it, if you
hoped to drive one.
A poor russian copy of a poor Italian design.
>There's a video floating aroung (Guiness Book of Records folks) showing a
>crew removing a VW engine, moving the engine four feet from the rear bumper,
>reinstalling the engine, then driving the bug away. In one minute, four
>seconds.
>
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:58:17 -0800, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> Interesting discussion.
>
> I think also much of the "blame" is upon the buyer.....how much will
> each of us pay for more quality?
>
> We get what we pay for...if you want better, then vote with your
> dollars and companies will hear you.
Yes, but my point is that there are times you *can't* pay for quality. My
fridge/freezer is over 30 years old and still going - but I don't think I
could walk into any modern appliance store and say "sell me a fridge
that'll still be going in 2039".
cheers
Jules
krw wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:25:17 -0600, Jules
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:51:01 -0600, Leon wrote:
>>> "hot" water heater? I only need a "water heater". ;!) Iknow, I
>>> know, it reheats relatively hot water, but would a hot water heater work
>>> if it were full of cold water?
>>
>>Define "cold". My water comes out of the ground at a pretty much constant
>>55 degrees year-round, and that's considerably hotter than freezing ;-)
>
> Mine sure doesn't. There is a big change in the shower handle
> position between summer and winter. When I lived in VT we were lucky
> it came out liquid in the winter. ;-) The frost line often went down
> 7' and not all water lines did. Since we had a domestic hot water
> coil in the boiler, the hot water temperature varied quite a lot too.
Same here. But ours isn't due to ground temperature, but the storage
temperature of the water tanks. During the summer, don't need much hot
water at all for a shower, during the winter, we need to turn down the cold
water considerably.
If the water is coming out of a well, then the temperature is going to be
pretty constant year-round. In general, that means cold. When I was
growing up, I'd see pictures of kids on TV running through sprinklers having
a grand old time. I'd try that (on a farm with well water) and I'd last for
a couple dashes through the water before I had to give up. I think our
water was about 60 degrees. It wasn't fun.
--
There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage
Rob Leatham
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:25:17 -0600, Jules
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:51:01 -0600, Leon wrote:
>> "hot" water heater? I only need a "water heater". ;!) Iknow, I know, it
>> reheats relatively hot water, but would a hot water heater work if it were
>> full of cold water?
>
>Define "cold". My water comes out of the ground at a pretty much constant
>55 degrees year-round, and that's considerably hotter than freezing ;-)
Mine sure doesn't. There is a big change in the shower handle
position between summer and winter. When I lived in VT we were lucky
it came out liquid in the winter. ;-) The frost line often went down
7' and not all water lines did. Since we had a domestic hot water
coil in the boiler, the hot water temperature varied quite a lot too.
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:45:08 -0600, krw wrote:
> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:25:17 -0600, Jules
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:51:01 -0600, Leon wrote:
>>> "hot" water heater? I only need a "water heater". ;!) Iknow, I know, it
>>> reheats relatively hot water, but would a hot water heater work if it were
>>> full of cold water?
>>
>>Define "cold". My water comes out of the ground at a pretty much constant
>>55 degrees year-round, and that's considerably hotter than freezing ;-)
>
> Mine sure doesn't. There is a big change in the shower handle
> position between summer and winter. When I lived in VT we were lucky
> it came out liquid in the winter. ;-) The frost line often went down
> 7' and not all water lines did.
Yeah, that'd do it, I suppose. Our line's around 7-8' down and only goes
maybe 30' out to the well. Temp seems to stay pretty constant
year-round.
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:44:15 -0800, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Jules" wrote:
>
>> My
>> fridge/freezer is over 30 years old and still going - but I don't
>> think I
>> could walk into any modern appliance store and say "sell me a fridge
>> that'll still be going in 2039".
>
> ----------------------------------
> It may still be operating, but at what efficiency?
Yes, I'm sure it's not good... but then for 7 months of the year up here
whatever losses it has are still going into the house as useful heat
anyway (and I don't run aircon in summer, so it's not like I'm using more
power to combat the inefficiency then either).
I did try estimating how much power it was using once (based on monthly
bills and the other stuff that we have running), and it wasn't that bad at
all; in terms of the difference in running costs between it and a new
fridge, I figured that a new replacement would have to run for at least
ten years before it paid for itself. Having seen the way most things are
engineered to a price these days, a decade might be asking a
little much :(
cheers
Jules
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 09:22:22 -0600, Jules
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 19:45:08 -0600, krw wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:25:17 -0600, Jules
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:51:01 -0600, Leon wrote:
>>>> "hot" water heater? I only need a "water heater". ;!) Iknow, I know, it
>>>> reheats relatively hot water, but would a hot water heater work if it were
>>>> full of cold water?
>>>
>>>Define "cold". My water comes out of the ground at a pretty much constant
>>>55 degrees year-round, and that's considerably hotter than freezing ;-)
>>
>> Mine sure doesn't. There is a big change in the shower handle
>> position between summer and winter. When I lived in VT we were lucky
>> it came out liquid in the winter. ;-) The frost line often went down
>> 7' and not all water lines did.
>
>Yeah, that'd do it, I suppose. Our line's around 7-8' down and only goes
>maybe 30' out to the well. Temp seems to stay pretty constant
>year-round.
Because you're on a deep well not because the lines are down' 7-8'.
The ground temperature isn't constant (in northern climes) even 20'
down. OTOH, at 400', and in the water table, it will be fairly
constant. ;-)
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:28:12 -0800, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> I replaced my electric water heater early in 2004. Looking at the
>> efficiency label on the old water heater and comparing to the new
>> $300 water heater installed by me, I determined that it would pay
>> for itself in less than 2 years.
>
> Does your utility offer discount rates for an electric hot water
> heater that operates only during off peak hours?
>
> When my dad built our house in 1947, he installed a 100 gallon tank
> for 3 people that only operated at night.
>
> We always had hot water heated by low cost electricity.
Yes, that's how ours is... water heater, clothes dryer and baseboard heat
all load-controlled on off-peak. The 30yr old fridge is probably
responsible for a good proportion of our monthly "non off-peak" bill
(along with the TV and the electric stove).
Our water heater's got one of those stickers on it which claims it's
quite high in terms of efficiency - but it's also quite old (albeit
descaled earlier this year) so newer ones probably do better. I
thought about insulating it more, but the outside surface gets barely warm
anyway - plus like with the fridge anything it loses as heat is doing
useful work for more than half the year. Maybe there is a case
for putting it on a timer just during the summer months; we usually
end up using all the hot in an evening, and there's probably no point
having it maintaining water heat all night long...
cheers
Jules
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 11:10:58 -0800, Nonny wrote:
> According to the book, "Small Wonder," the beetle was designed by
> Dr. Porsche
I believe he "borrowed" a lot of the design from Tatra, though.
> IMHO, if there's any secret
> to VW's beetle, it was that they got lots and lots of feedback from
> owners bringing the car in with the little glitches.
I don't think it was even that - they just kept the design
mechanically simple and made it easy to swap parts out when needed.
Re. windows, I think the rear split-screen ones were the earliest ones -
in the 50s they dropped the split, and soon after that made the rear
window a lot bigger.
cheers
Jules
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 09:39:22 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
> I used to have an X1/9.
Heh, I find myself playing "spot the car" in the US, having grown up on
the other side of the Pond. Saw my first X1/9 on US soil last year, one
"proper" Mini so far (not the crappy modern BMW version), a 2CV a couple
of months ago... quite a few VW bugs, of course. A few MG Midgets (but
with the shitty rubber bumpers that they were forced to have in the US)
> Not at all like my one Toyota
I've had a major hankering after a first-generation Celica for a few
months... I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing!
I really want a Jensen FF, but that's waiting until I win the lottery ;)
cheers
Jules
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:54:39 +1300, Peter Huebner wrote:
> But clearly, the Chinese are not there yet. And with their sanctioned
> policy of 'saving face is more important than dealing with problems or
> addressing the issues' this may take longer for China to get up to speed
> and communicate reliably with the rest of the world.
Well yes, because there's no incentive for them (or anyone else) to sort
out the problems or make better products - it really is "you get
what you pay for", and most folk seem happy to buy complete crap so
long as it's cheap. I've seen good Chiense products in the past - with the
associated price tag.
Their labor's cheap, but still skilled if that's what's required; they'll
build and test stuff to the exact level that the buyer's paying for.
cheers
Jules
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 17:51:01 -0600, Leon wrote:
> "hot" water heater? I only need a "water heater". ;!) Iknow, I know, it
> reheats relatively hot water, but would a hot water heater work if it were
> full of cold water?
Define "cold". My water comes out of the ground at a pretty much constant
55 degrees year-round, and that's considerably hotter than freezing ;-)
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:15:21 -0800, LDosser wrote:
> The Tube in London, early sixties.
I believe they fitted aircon to at least some of the lines recently - I'm
yet to go back over and try it out. I used to go into London a few nights
a week and the trains were always hell in the summer months, with almost
no air circulation... (and they used to bump around and feel like they
were coming off the tracks, and the lights would sometimes all go out for
several seconds at a time... ahh, memories :-)
cheers
Jules
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:10:14 -0800, David Nebenzahl wrote:
> I had an old bus ('65 w/a Super Beetle engine) that I drove from coast
> to coast. It finally died, but nearly everything bad that happened to it
> was my fault, even though I otherwise took very good care of it.
Question: did they ever sell the truck version in the US? (think bus
but with most of the roof chopped off and a load bed in the back).
Couple of my uncles had those as farm trucks in the early 70s (because
they were cheap, easy to fix and they never needed them to be fast or
go long distances, I suppose). There can't have been many manufacturers
offering rear-engined pickups. Not seen one on the road for years, though.
cheers
Jules
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:33:43 -0500, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
>> I've had a major hankering after a first-generation Celica for a few
>> months... I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing!
>
> I don't know which generation was which year, but when I came to the US
> from Australia at the end of 1977, I saw Celicas that looked
> considerably different from - and inferior to -- the ones I had been
> seeing in Australia for the past year or two. The internals might have
> been the same, but I much preferred the styling of the Australian ones.
Interesting. I found that with a lot of the old Holdens when I was in Oz
and NZ - lots of them were based on US models, but somehow they just had
that little bit more grace and elegance in the styling...
And actually, when I say "first generation Celica", I think I'd aim for
one of the post-'75 ones after they gave them the facelift. Problem with
my being in the US is that I think all of the US ones may have had shitty
rubber bumpers added - the Oz ones just had chrome as Toyota intended.
I'm a self-confessed sucker for '70s cars with quad headlights... ;)
cheers
Jules
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:45:33 +0000, notbob wrote:
> On 2009-12-18, Peter Huebner <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> And, talking of reliable European cars, I've known quite a few series 2
>> Volvos that cracked half a million kilometres ... Now that Ford are
>> messing with the Volvo design I think that will not be the case any
>> more, I won't buy another Volvo designed & built since 2006. Currently
>> driving an 850 wagon and an XC70. Wonderful cars to drive, but lots of
>> little things go wrong all of the time :-(
>
> Even the supposedly best of them ...Mercedes and BMW.... are not
> without flaws. My buddies SL head gasket leaks oil like the Exxon Vadez and its
> paint went just as quickly as my same year Civic in the scorching CA
> sun. Another friend's BMW dash upholstery split open like ripe puffball, and it
> only 8 yrs old. I've seen brand new Mercedes with orange peel paint
> to rival the worst from detroit.
I think the important part is in distinguishing between design issues and
manufacturing ones - i.e. whether there's something fundamentally bad
about the design, or if the fault lies with the way they're put together.
I'm not sure if you can say that a "European car" is bad if the faults are
all on the assembly side, and that assembly is done locally to the country
where the car is sold.
> I'm stunned to find how popular Buicks are. Talked to a Fifth Ave owner
> who had 350K miles without a hiccup.
Wonder what the record currently is and who holds it? Back in the '80s I
think Mercedes had it for one of their diesels, but that was a loooong
time ago now.
cheers
Jules
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:33:47 -0600, HeyBub wrote:
> As long as we're bragging, my 1970 Ford Custom got 9mph.
>
> 'Course it had a police interceptor engine, a calibrated speedometer up to
> 140, an 8-quart crankcase, and, believe it or not, a DELCO alternator.
What good's a speedo up to 140 if it won't go beyond 10mph? ;)
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:52:13 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:
>> The Europeans have yet to make a reliable car.
>
> Lookie what I just tripped over. A 4 wheeled self propelled British
> bonfire. *snicker*
>
> http://tinyurl.com/y8jrrhf
I was lamenting the loss of the car for a moment, but I think that's a
modern piece-of-shit BMW Mini under those flames, and thankfully not a
real Cooper ;-)
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 23:00:40 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>>
>> I seem to recall something about Rolls Royce using GM automatic
>> transmissions.
>
> Possible. Jaguar did.
And Jensen... far easier to buy a slushbox in from a country that
used them in the vast majority of vehicles, I suppose. Shame it
didn't work both ways and the US didn't import manual 'boxes from
Europe!
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 12:47:24 -0500, Nate Nagel wrote:
>> And Jensen... far easier to buy a slushbox in from a country that
>> used them in the vast majority of vehicles, I suppose. Shame it
>> didn't work both ways and the US didn't import manual 'boxes from
>> Europe!
>
> Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't Jensen use MoPar power? Far more
> likely in that case that they used the TF727 rather than try to make a
> GM trans fit a Chrysler engine
Yes, my bad - I don't know why I was remembering it as a GM 'box! :(
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 11:18:09 -0600, krw wrote:
>>Friend used to own a Jaguar/MG dealership. Both were totally unreliable
>>vehicles because of the poor quality components they used. He was
>>constantly towing in new and relatively new Jaguars that broke down.
>>They were state owned for a long time. He told me about how he went over
>>to see the plants and they were still using antique/inefficient
>>equipment such as manually operated block and tackle etc to move
>>assemblies.
>
> They've always been unreliable POS, like all Brittish cars. Fun to
> drive but were like a jet fighter to maintain (30:1 maintenance:drive
> hours).
Yeah, my Triumphs were like that sometimes - until I'd sorted out the
problems that should have originally been done by the designers and
builders. After doing that they were no worse than anything else from the
time; plugs and points and lights and brakes...
Some of the cosmetic stuff is pretty bad - plastic window switches
that acquire a gray film, shitty "muck metal" Mazak that corrodes and pits
- but stuff like that I suppose the desigers just didn't know would happen
30 years later.
> "Lucas: The inventor of dark."
I'll stick my neck out: I don't think Lucas were that bad. What got them
the rep was bad design in terms of component placement within the vehicle
(assemblies subjected to vibration or road debris or being cooked by the
engine), and that a lot of the vehicles that used them came from plants
with very poor quality control - the result was that they'd let moisture
in, and moisture will kill electrics in no time...
I've owned several vehicles with Lucas parts and I've never had much
trouble - but I've adjusted panels so they fit better, sorted out
seals, moved things around so they don't get slowly roasted etc.
cheers
Jules
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:39:07 -0800, David Nebenzahl <[email protected]>
wrote:
I have a few tools that were made in China that I feel are very high quality..
Two jet lathes and several small power tools..
My feeling is that it's not WHERE they are made, it's the quality control of the
company that the stuff is made for..
>This post is aimed at all you sinophobes out there.
>
>I'm getting a little tired of hearing the complaint "___ is a piece of
>shit: what do you expect? It's made in China!".
>
>Now it is true that a lot of crap--boatloads of it, literally--does come
>from that great country. We've all seen it, used it, chucked it out.
>
>But bear in mind the historical precedent: some of you are probably old
>enough to remember the similar tarring of anything that had the label
>"Made in Japan" on it. Anything Japanese was considered worthless.
>Compare to today.
>
>I'm finding more and more that "Made in China" really doesn't mean
>anything about the quality of an item. Clearly, Chinese workers, as
>underpaid as they may be, are quite capable of making anything as well
>as anyone else in any other part of the world.
>
>Part of the problem is that we're placing blame in the wrong place. The
>*real* problem seems to be "Made in [anyplace] but designed in the U.S.
>[or some other place]". A lot, if not most, of what I would call
>"Chinese junk" is actually made as well as the design would allow for,
>including the materials used and the amount of labor committed to
>finishing the item. So in many cases Chinese factories are making
>faithful copies of a shitty design that may well have come from some
>designer's computah right here in The Greatest Industrial Power on Earth
>(the US of A).
>
>I predict the Chinese are following the same arc that the Japanese did
>after WWII, with variations, of course; there's no Marshall Plan, and
>the countries are vastly different. Nonetheless, I can forsee the day
>when "Made in China" is no longer a call for derision.
>
>By way of showing just how wrong people can be when predicting who's
>winning the industrial game, here's a hilariously and astoundingly wrong
>prediction about the Japanese and American photographic industries from
>1946: http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-136.html
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
In article <[email protected]>,
"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Smitty Two wrote:
> >
> > The original VW bug was inexpensive to buy, and relatively inexpensive
> > to repair. That is hardly the same as being reliable.
>
> Yeah, but how many cars come with a tool kit? Admittedly, the tool kit
> wasn't much. It consisted of a cylinder with two socket ends (which fit
> virtually every nut on the car), two screwdrivers, a pair of pliers, and a
> metal rod used to turn the socket cylinder.
>
> There's a video floating aroung (Guiness Book of Records folks) showing a
> crew removing a VW engine, moving the engine four feet from the rear bumper,
> reinstalling the engine, then driving the bug away. In one minute, four
> seconds.
A friend of mine is still driving around in an ancient VW microbus. He
keeps a spare engine on hand. When the one in the car goes out, he swaps
it, then rebuilds the broken one at his leisure. Last time he broke down
he was on the freeway about 20 miles out of town. He had another friend
bring him the spare and they swapped out the engine in a half hour by
the side of the road. I'll tell him he needs to speed it up a little.
In article <[email protected]>,
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Smitty Two wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> You folks who are going on about "Rabbits" and "Jettas" and suchlike are
> >> missing the point.
> >>
> >> THE Volkswagen, the Type I, aka the Beetle, aka the Porsche Type 60, was
> >> in
> >> continuous production for over 60 years with more than 20 million built,
> >> both the longest and largest production runs in automotive history.
> >
> > Completely irrelevant to the issue of reliability.
>
> Did you not just contradict yourself with your story about friends
> "ancient" VW?
You mean the one where he replaces the engine every 2-3 years? (And
makes all manner of other repairs on a regular basis?) No, I'm not
seeing that as a contradiction.
>
> Have YOU ever owned one?
No, the experiences of my friends who did was all I needed to stay away
from them. But if you like them, then by all means, keep driving them.
I did own an Audi once. Worst car I've ever owned in terms of
reliability. Made by VW. I had a g.f. years ago who had a Karmann Ghia,
and it was a piece of junk, too. Then I had a g.f. with a Jetta, also
crap. Have a friend who bought one of those new VW bugs a few years ago
and it began to disintegrate at about 80k. Have a friend who owned an
original bug for 25 years, and loved it, but it was in the shop every
3-4 months. (He didn't have a frame of reference to see that as an
issue.)
In article <[email protected]>,
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Smitty Two wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> You folks who are going on about "Rabbits" and "Jettas" and suchlike
> >> are missing the point.
> >>
> >> THE Volkswagen, the Type I, aka the Beetle, aka the Porsche Type 60,
> >> was in continuous production for over 60 years with more than 20
> >> million built, both the longest and largest production runs in
> >> automotive history.
> >
> > Completely irrelevant to the issue of reliability.
>
> Please show me where the word "reliability" appears in the quotation to
> which you were responding.
This entire branch of the thread is about the reliability of VWs. I
started this branch of the thread, so I'm pretty clear about that. Trace
it back if you're interested.
In article <[email protected]>,
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Leon wrote:
> Snip
>
> >>
> >> I bought the VW's on their past reputation.
> >
> > The "Volkswagen", the original design, is what I was talking about. Not
> > the price point engineered models they started making to woo and placate
> > the American consumer with the junk they prefer.
>
> Exactly!
>
>
The original VW bug was inexpensive to buy, and relatively inexpensive
to repair. That is hardly the same as being reliable.
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 09:18:54 -0500, [email protected] wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:37:13 -0800, "LDosser" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> Somebody wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now that Ford are
>>>> messing with the Volvo design I think that will not be the case any
>>>> more, I won't buy another Volvo designed & built since 2006.
>>>
>>> FoMoCo wasn't too shabby in the way they cleaned up Jaguar.
>>>
>>> Lew
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>And GM is cleaning up Saab ...
> With a broom and a dustpan???
Tidy Bowl.
In article <[email protected]>,
"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Do the presently employed teachers do a good job teaching
> the liberal agenda? Be dumb. Be compliant. Fear global
> warming. And, lets teach everyone how to have "safe" sex by
> rolling a condom on a cucumber before going to town.
>
> --
If you're having sex with a cucumber, you don't need a condom.
In article <[email protected]>,
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jules wrote:
>
> > They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are
> > talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>
> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
> spaceships.
The Europeans have yet to make a reliable car.
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 20:16:04 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Stormin Mormon wrote:
>
>> Having owned four Chryslers (three with V8-318, and one with
>> slant 6-215 CED engine) I nominate them for the POS
>> category, also.
>
>Our '02 Chrysler 300M has done 95K miles and has been very reliable. Our
>'96 Dodge Stratus ES (Mitsushitty engine), however, was a whole 'nother
>story.
I had an '85 and '90 Voyager, a '93 Eagle Vision TSi (Intrepid class
from Jeep), a '96 Chrysler Intrepid. None of them made it to 100k mi.
Definitely POS category, though I loved driving the Vision.
In article <[email protected]>,
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Smitty Two wrote:
>
> > Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >> Have YOU ever owned one?
> >
> > No,
>
> Then your "opinion" on the matter is worth absolutely nothing.
Well, I'm glad we got that settled. Thanks for editing all meaningful
content out of my post, in order to create the illusion of defending
your own Meaningful Opinion. Have a nice day.
In article <[email protected]>,
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> You folks who are going on about "Rabbits" and "Jettas" and suchlike are
> missing the point.
>
> THE Volkswagen, the Type I, aka the Beetle, aka the Porsche Type 60, was in
> continuous production for over 60 years with more than 20 million built,
> both the longest and largest production runs in automotive history.
Completely irrelevant to the issue of reliability.
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 08:04:52 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"ktos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>
>> My next door neighbor has 2 Chryslers. Both cars sound like bombs
>> exploding when they start their cars.
>
>
>I can still remember back in the 50's hearing our neighbor start his '56
>Dodge. It was a godawful sound very fitting for such an ugly car. Remember
>the three-tone paint jobs available back then? Most every maker had
>two-tone, but Dodge had to top them with three.
>
>Over the past 48 years, I've owned many different brands of car, but never
>anything from Chrysler. Nor will I ever. I still don't like their style.
>
Their style has varied so much, and so often, that it's pretty hard
to say you don't like their style as a reason to have never owned one
and to say you never will.
I'll own another Chrysler long before I'll own another GM!!!!!
On 2009-12-19, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
> Cheapest car I've ever bought was a '64 Karman Ghia convertible in 1975.
> Paid $15 for it. Worth every penny too.
We've seen most every brand represented but American Motors. In '73 I
bought a '60 Rambler American 2-dr with a brand new rebuilt flathead
straight six (1-barrel!) for $25. It was one of the most enjoyable
cars I've ever owned. Drove it for 5 yrs without a single problem.
Cruised effortlessly at 75mph and got 23mpg. When I bought it, it had
no driver's side window, yet the snowy OR Winters were no match for
the heater which would keep the interior at bread baking temps at
65mph in 20 deg F weather. It was 2 yrs before I got around to
replacing the window. If I could find a '60 station wagon version in
good shape, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. ;)
http://jalopnik.com/5288930/1960-rambler-american-custom
nb
On 2009-12-19, The Daring Dufas <[email protected]> wrote:
> had double seals which made for a remarkable lack of wind noise while
> zipping down the highway at 70mph.
Yep. They were, above all, comfortable. Big ol' bench seats, perfect
ergonomics ....which seem damn near impossible anymore in this
multi-national world market.... few simple controls, killer radio,
Harley-like torque, etc. I'd liken them to a US version of the
beetle, only more comfortable and highway worthy.
nb
notbob wrote:
> On 2009-12-19, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Cheapest car I've ever bought was a '64 Karman Ghia convertible in 1975.
>> Paid $15 for it. Worth every penny too.
>
> We've seen most every brand represented but American Motors. In '73 I
> bought a '60 Rambler American 2-dr with a brand new rebuilt flathead
> straight six (1-barrel!) for $25. It was one of the most enjoyable
> cars I've ever owned. Drove it for 5 yrs without a single problem.
> Cruised effortlessly at 75mph and got 23mpg. When I bought it, it had
> no driver's side window, yet the snowy OR Winters were no match for
> the heater which would keep the interior at bread baking temps at
> 65mph in 20 deg F weather. It was 2 yrs before I got around to
> replacing the window. If I could find a '60 station wagon version in
> good shape, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. ;)
>
> http://jalopnik.com/5288930/1960-rambler-american-custom
>
> nb
>
I think my dad had one of those for a while and when I was in college,
he got a Rambler wagon. It was an interesting car, the vacuum advance
rotated the whole distributer on the six cylinder engine and the doors
had double seals which made for a remarkable lack of wind noise while
zipping down the highway at 70mph.
TDD
notbob wrote:
> On 2009-12-19, The Daring Dufas <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> had double seals which made for a remarkable lack of wind noise while
>> zipping down the highway at 70mph.
>
> Yep. They were, above all, comfortable. Big ol' bench seats, perfect
> ergonomics ....which seem damn near impossible anymore in this
> multi-national world market.... few simple controls, killer radio,
> Harley-like torque, etc. I'd liken them to a US version of the
> beetle, only more comfortable and highway worthy.
>
> nb
If I remember, the darn seats reclined enough to make it a bed!
Made it a heck of a date car, lots of faces slapped. *snicker*
TDD
"Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote:
-snip-
>
>Over the past 48 years, I've owned many different brands of car, but never
>anything from Chrysler. Nor will I ever. I still don't like their style.
>
Oh man you missed a couple of goodies-- I had '66 Dart from 76-84 &
replaced it with a 84 Reliant from 84-'01.
I liked the Reliant so much I tried to find another Chrysler product-
but they had already dropped the K line and had nothing to offer. Ford
and Chevy have split my business since 95.['95 Taurus, '01 Impala- and
a '10 Focus]
Jim
<[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
> Their style has varied so much, and so often, that it's pretty hard
> to say you don't like their style as a reason to have never owned one
> and to say you never will.
>
> I'll own another Chrysler long before I'll own another GM!!!!!
Varied does not mean pleasing to my eyes in any variation. The Stratus was
not so bad and I even drove a rental on a trip, but I never cared for
anything else and did not like the Stratus enough to by one. Never cared for
the Dodge Charger that so many guys fawned over. The group they have now is
just plain ugly, IMO. Obviously, others like them or they never would have
made it out of the factory.
I like GM style, but that is about all they offer these days. I have a
deteriorating Buick in my driveway that I liked for the first 30,000 miles,
but things started going wrong. Best quality and most trouble free car I've
ever owned was my '07 Hyundai Sonata with 67,000 trouble free miles. Only
maintenance was 2 tires and oil changes. I just bought a '10 last week.
It will the last of the V-6 on Sonata.
Cheapest car I've ever bought was a '64 Karman Ghia convertible in 1975.
Paid $15 for it. Worth every penny too.
Best resale value was a '64 Pontiac Tempest. Paid $100 for it, drove it for
a year, sold it back to the original owner for $100.
Most fun car was a '62 Corvair
Most expensive to both buy and maintain was '83 a Mercedes 300D
On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 08:04:52 -0500, "Ed Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"ktos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>
>> My next door neighbor has 2 Chryslers. Both cars sound like bombs
>> exploding when they start their cars.
>
>
>I can still remember back in the 50's hearing our neighbor start his '56
>Dodge. It was a godawful sound very fitting for such an ugly car. Remember
>the three-tone paint jobs available back then? Most every maker had
>two-tone, but Dodge had to top them with three.
>
>Over the past 48 years, I've owned many different brands of car, but never
>anything from Chrysler. Nor will I ever. I still don't like their style.
I loved the practicality of their minivans and the styling of the
original Intrepid class. All were junk. Never again. We both drive
Fords now (Mercury Sable and a Ranger) and I've been told our next car
is going to be a Mustang convertible, so...
On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:33:47 -0600, "HeyBub" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>notbob wrote:
>> On 2009-12-18, Lew Hodgett <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Still gets 25 MPG.
>>
>> My old '62 Dodge Lancer with slant six and AT got 22mph on highway.
>>
>
>As long as we're bragging, my 1970 Ford Custom got 9mph.
>
>'Course it had a police interceptor engine, a calibrated speedometer up to
>140, an 8-quart crankcase, and, believe it or not, a DELCO alternator.
>
9MPG, I hope, not 9MPH - and are you absolutely sure it had a DELCO
alternator? All the heavy duty equipped interceptors I ever worked on
had Leece Neville alternators back then.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Dec 18, 4:26 am, Peter Huebner <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> And, talking of reliable European cars, I've known quite a few series 2
> Volvos that cracked half a million kilometres ... Now that Ford are
> messing with the Volvo design I think that will not be the case any
> more, I won't buy another Volvo designed & built since 2006. Currently
> driving an 850 wagon and an XC70. Wonderful cars to drive, but lots of
> little things go wrong all of the time :-(
>
I quite like the C30 Volvo. Ford's hands in things don't always turn
out bad.
The fact that a C30 fetches as much money as it does is a bit of a
pisser considering that what it really *is*...is a Mazda 3.
I have owned Volvos in the past without any drama.
One of the worst lemons I ever had was an early-model Volvo P-1800. I made
a sharp u-turn one day and the wire from the distributor wrapped around the
steering and broke. The hose from the fuel filter leaked and the car caught
fire one day in a gas station. The Pirelli radial tires made the car waggle
like a duck at low speeds as the side walls flexed back and forth. A c-clip
in the window mechanism kept coming off and I became good at removing the
trim and replacing the clip.
Maybe the fact that the car was made in Scotland was a factor.
My next Volvo was a model 142, made (assembled, actually) in Halifax, Nova
Scotia -- I bought it duty free, with no accessories - not even a radio --
for $2000 brand new. It was more reliable but I finally sold it in Dayton,
OH when there was no Volvo dealership and no reliable repair shops that I
could find and the disk brakes started to seize up randomly.
On 2009-12-17, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient automobiles
> known to mankind, and to this day the best selling car in history, hit
> the ground running ... the "Volkswagen".
Complete and total bullshit! As a mechanic who has owned more than
one VW, don't even bother with trying to convince me of VW's
reliability. A good practical design (bug) yes. Reliable? Please.
My first bug, the engine trashed itself at a mere 45mph. The brakes
locked up by themselves. I had a diesel Rabbit that almost did a
Blues Brother's disintergration right before my eyes ....and suffered
the exact same brake lock-up, I might add. I was driving a 1950 Chevy
pickup long after my VWs were consigned to the trash heap.
> Sheessh, it's sad, this total failure of the educational system and the
> resultant ignorance!
Not as sad as your total failure at exercising common sense.
nb
"Percival P. Cassidy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Nonny wrote:
>
>> According to the book, "Small Wonder," the beetle was designed by Dr.
>> Porsche and the basic design was so good that only refinements were made
>> over its long manufacturing run. IMHO, if there's any secret to VW's
>> beetle, it was that they got lots and lots of feedback from owners
>> bringing the car in with the little glitches. If there was consistency to
>> a glitch, like a door handle that kept breaking, VW would design a new
>> and improved one and start using them. The product was continually
>> refined and improved, within the limitations of the basic design or
>> concept.
>>
>> I had an '71 Super Beetle and felt it was an excellent car if you
>> overlooked the lack of heat in IN/MI winters. <grin>
>
> ISTR hearing a long time ago, that when VW asked for an independent
> evaluation of the design, the only suggestion made was to increase the
> size of the rear window -- which they did, of course.
They could'a also put the battery on top of the car and that would'a been a
better place than under the back seat.
Jules <[email protected]> writes:
>On Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:45:33 +0000, notbob wrote:
>
>> On 2009-12-18, Peter Huebner <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> And, talking of reliable European cars, I've known quite a few series 2
>>> Volvos that cracked half a million kilometres ... Now that Ford are
>>> messing with the Volvo design I think that will not be the case any
>>> more, I won't buy another Volvo designed & built since 2006. Currently
>>> driving an 850 wagon and an XC70. Wonderful cars to drive, but lots of
>>> little things go wrong all of the time :-(
>>
>> Even the supposedly best of them ...Mercedes and BMW.... are not
>> without flaws. My buddies SL head gasket leaks oil like the Exxon Vadez and its
>> paint went just as quickly as my same year Civic in the scorching CA
>> sun. Another friend's BMW dash upholstery split open like ripe puffball, and it
>> only 8 yrs old. I've seen brand new Mercedes with orange peel paint
>> to rival the worst from detroit.
>
>I think the important part is in distinguishing between design issues and
>manufacturing ones - i.e. whether there's something fundamentally bad
>about the design, or if the fault lies with the way they're put together.
>I'm not sure if you can say that a "European car" is bad if the faults are
>all on the assembly side, and that assembly is done locally to the country
>where the car is sold.
Friend of mine had a 750IL (yeah, the james bond one). The interior
pretty much disintegrated; many of the leds on the dash died, to the
point where you could no longer read the odometer. The passenger side
front door window broke every time the door was closed hard. He went
through at least three radios. 12 cylinders to service. Never again,
he said.
scott
On 12/16/2009 4:33 PM, HeyBub wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> Jules wrote:
>>
>>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There
>>> are talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>>
>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>> spaceships.
>
> The Europeans built a spaceship? I think Flash Gordon was an American...
>
> Last I heard, the Europeans were trying to put up their own GPS satellite
> system - for reasons passing understanding.
>
>
They were concerned that something integral to their national defense
systems was under the exclusive control of the US.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk [email protected]
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/
"David Nebenzahl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 12/17/2009 6:42 AM J. Clarke spake thus:
>
>> Leon wrote:
> >
>>> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> Your reefer may be in the same mode.
>>>
>>> Reefer? ;~)
>>
>> Navy talk for "refrigerator".
>
> Also a railroading term.
Also a Dope term.....
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 10:11:45 -0600, Jules <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sat, 19 Dec 2009 18:52:13 -0600, The Daring Dufas wrote:
>>> The Europeans have yet to make a reliable car.
>>
>> Lookie what I just tripped over. A 4 wheeled self propelled British
>> bonfire. *snicker*
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/y8jrrhf
>I was lamenting the loss of the car for a moment, but I think that's a
>modern piece-of-shit BMW Mini under those flames, and thankfully not a
>real Cooper ;-)
a real cooper would have a bigger oil puddle.
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 11:09:19 -0500, George <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 12/19/2009 23:00, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>>>
>>> I seem to recall something about Rolls Royce using GM automatic
>>> transmissions.
>>>
>>
>> Possible. Jaguar did. I fellow I used to work with was restoring a Jag and
>> bough a lot of parts fromt he GM dealer at half the price fromthe Jag
>> dealer.
>>
>>
>>
>Friend used to own a Jaguar/MG dealership. Both were totally unreliable
>vehicles because of the poor quality components they used. He was
>constantly towing in new and relatively new Jaguars that broke down.
>They were state owned for a long time. He told me about how he went over
>to see the plants and they were still using antique/inefficient
>equipment such as manually operated block and tackle etc to move
>assemblies.
They've always been unreliable POS, like all Brittish cars. Fun to
drive but were like a jet fighter to maintain (30:1 maintenance:drive
hours). "Lucas: The inventor of dark."
>At some point (maybe when they were denationalized) they started using
>GM transmissions and Delco electrical and A/C components.
You mean after Ford bought them? ;-)
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> I'm certain that the education that my son received at Kerr HS played a
>> very major roll in him transitioning so smoothly into college. I recall
>> the 10th graders mentoring the incoming 9th graders and most of them were
>> high achievers. Life transitioning into Kerr HS was a bigger challenge
>> for my son than going from that HS into college. I am also certain that
>> Kerr HS played a major part in my son getting into the Honors College his
>> first year at the university and graduating with a 4 year average GPA of
>> 3.87.
>
> "Summa Cum Laude" at that! Right?
Yeah but Bryan was not around to help me spell it. My computer surely would
have turned it into Lookey Chop Suey.
> Don't forget to add "parenting" into the equation.
I guess, it seemed prett easy to me.
>
> Like Doug Miller's young Eagle Scout, few young folks achieve what both
> your boys have achieved without the parents being a BIG part of the
> success story.
Absolutely.
Leon wrote:
> "Percival P. Cassidy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Nonny wrote:
>>
>>> According to the book, "Small Wonder," the beetle was designed by Dr.
>>> Porsche and the basic design was so good that only refinements were made
>>> over its long manufacturing run. IMHO, if there's any secret to VW's
>>> beetle, it was that they got lots and lots of feedback from owners
>>> bringing the car in with the little glitches. If there was consistency to
>>> a glitch, like a door handle that kept breaking, VW would design a new
>>> and improved one and start using them. The product was continually
>>> refined and improved, within the limitations of the basic design or
>>> concept.
>>>
>>> I had an '71 Super Beetle and felt it was an excellent car if you
>>> overlooked the lack of heat in IN/MI winters. <grin>
>> ISTR hearing a long time ago, that when VW asked for an independent
>> evaluation of the design, the only suggestion made was to increase the
>> size of the rear window -- which they did, of course.
>
> They could'a also put the battery on top of the car and that would'a been a
> better place than under the back seat.
You obviously never had to deal with a Renault 4CV?? :)
... now that car was NOT a good example of "European engineering"!
My Dad got one for his work car in the 50's and it was a constant battle
keeping it running.
It's where I learned how to use a bolt extractor, removing twisted off
head bolts, which they frequently did.
Then again, it was French ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 10:08:39 -0500, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Leon wrote:
>> "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>> Over 60 years ago one of the most reliable and efficient automobiles
>>> known to mankind, and to this day the best selling car in history,
>>> hit the ground running ... the "Volkswagen".
>>
>> I will have to disagree with you there. Kim and I bought a new 99
>> Jetta, it left her stranded on the freeway 3 times under warranty the
>> first 18 months, and a dead battery replaced under warranty. That
>> was the Mexico built vehicle. Towed into the dealership and "no
>> problem found " on the 3 rd time we immediately traded for a German
>> built 2000 Passat. We almost kept it 4 years. While we had it, it
>> left Kim stranded 2 times, once was a faulty starter relay, the
>> second time another dead battery replaced by me. Then there were
>> numerous emissions problems, the need to replace both outer tie rod
>> ends at 30K, and the heater core at 43K. The transmission was
>> showing signs of failure. Traded for the 04 Accord at 47K. Both
>> vehicles were serviced more often than recommended by the dealer.
>> The 99 Jetta and 2000 Passat were serviced/oil changed at 3K VW
>> recommended every 10K. After trading the Passat we got a factory
>> letter rewording service intervals for the turbo, every 3K and with
>> synthetic oil. I saw that coming.
>>
>> I bought the VW's on their past reputation.
>>
>> Maybe my first VW's were a fluke but I'll probably never buy another.
>
>You folks who are going on about "Rabbits" and "Jettas" and suchlike are
>missing the point.
>
>THE Volkswagen, the Type I, aka the Beetle, aka the Porsche Type 60, was in
>continuous production for over 60 years with more than 20 million built,
>both the longest and largest production runs in automotive history.
>
>>> Sheessh, it's sad, this total failure of the educational system and
>>> the resultant ignorance!
>>
>> Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers
>> that don't give a shit and that finally led to teachers that could
>> not find a job any where else. Long ago when teachers could step in
>> as a parent and administer discipline he or she could actually teach.
>> We have lost teachers that actually taught for baby sitters.
>
>Uh, you might want to actually get drunk with a few teachers sometime before
>you blame them. They have to do what they can with what they've got and
>what they've got these days isn't much (and I'm not talking about the kids,
>I'm talking about the rules they are required to work under). Wanna fix
>education, first shoot all the professors of education and all the school
>boards.
Shhot the politicians and lawyers first and mabee the rest could be
spared.
On 12/16/2009 4:20 PM, Swingman wrote:
> Jules wrote:
>
>> They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are
>> talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>
> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
> spaceships.
>
They said that about Japan in 1960. That nation then went on to hand
Europe and the US their butts in the manufacturing of optics,
electronics, and so forth.
Quality is not just a data point. It is a curve with the y-axis being
price and the x-axis being quality. The curve rises asymptotically as
you move to the right. The question is not "is it high quality?" The
more usual question is, "Is it high enough quality for the desired
task at hand AND is it worth the asking price?" Sometimes the quality
you need justifies asymptotic costs - say when life support is
involved. At other times a fairly low level of quality is all you need
or are willing to pay for - say a tool you will only use once to solve
a specific problem.
There are many examples of very successful companies and industries
that learned how to manufacture "good enough" technology for some
purpose. Microsoft is a great example of this. There were far better
technologies around when Microsoft first entered the desktop OS
business. But Microsoft figured out how to commoditize it at a price
people could live with. Was it "high quality"? No, but it was "good
enough" quality for the overwhelming majority of people and a
multi-billion dollar industry (and company) was born.
That said, my experience for most tools is that saving money is a
false economy. Good tools tend to last for the lifetime of the owner -
or at least a very long time. Short term savings end up biting you in
the hindquarters later on when you have to buy a replacement tool.
Incidentally, I'd argue that the Japanese are very much on par with
the Europeans for many classes of tools these days. A Mitutoyo digital
caliper is every bit the equal of a Brown & Sharpe for considerably
less money, for example.
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tim Daneliuk [email protected]
PGP Key: http://www.tundraware.com/PGP/
On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:57:35 -0800, Smitty Two
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Jules wrote:
>>
>> > They'll build what they're paid to build, no more and no less. There are
>> > talented folk there, same as anywhere else
>>
>> They are excellent copy cats, but there is NOTHING like European
>> engineering for built-in quality, from handsaws and screwdrivers, to
>> spaceships.
>
>The Europeans have yet to make a reliable car.
Au Contraire - they make VERY reliable cars. You can rely on them to
make trouble when they are most needed.
That said, one of the least troublesome cars I ever owned - and the
price was definitely right on top of it all, was a 1972 Vauxhaul Viva
HC - sold in Canada as the Pontiac Firenza. I bought it for $250 in
1979 when it was traded for a new Lada
It took the typical British "fondling it's nuts" on a semi-regular
basis, but the only breakdown I suffered with it was when the timing
belt broke heading south out of Sydney Nova Scotia - fixed at the side
of the road - and the regulator died the next day just North of
Halifax.
Doug Miller wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> As for European engineering in general, anybody who thinks that it's all
>> high quality hasn't fettled a brand new British-made Stanley shoulder plane.
>
> Or owned a Fiat...
Then there's Rolls Royce, Bentley, Mercedes, BMW, the Lamborghini
Reventon , Maserati, the Bugatti Veyron, the McLaren F1, and the Pagani,
to name just a few examples of "European engineering" that there is
NOTHING else like.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"Jules" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 16 Dec 2009 19:44:15 -0800, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> "Jules" wrote:
>>
>>> My
>>> fridge/freezer is over 30 years old and still going - but I don't
>>> think I
>>> could walk into any modern appliance store and say "sell me a fridge
>>> that'll still be going in 2039".
>>
>> ----------------------------------
>> It may still be operating, but at what efficiency?
>
> Yes, I'm sure it's not good... but then for 7 months of the year up here
> whatever losses it has are still going into the house as useful heat
> anyway (and I don't run aircon in summer, so it's not like I'm using more
> power to combat the inefficiency then either).
>
> I did try estimating how much power it was using once (based on monthly
> bills and the other stuff that we have running), and it wasn't that bad at
> all; in terms of the difference in running costs between it and a new
> fridge, I figured that a new replacement would have to run for at least
> ten years before it paid for itself. Having seen the way most things are
> engineered to a price these days, a decade might be asking a
> little much :(
Consider this, and my comparison is not an even one but you may want to look
at other appliances also.
I have been keeping records on a spread sheet of my electricity usage and
cost in the same house for the last 21 years.
I replaced the original central AC & heating in 1995, it was 14 years old.
I am still using that replacement central AC & heating system 15 years
later. From 1988 till 2003 my average monthly usage has been from 1214 Kwh
to 1456 Kwh. The graph goes up and down, up and down.
Beginning in 2004 my average usage has almost gone flat. 1347 in 2004,
1348 in 2005, 1335 in 2006, 1334 in 2007, 1184 in 2008. and so far in 2009
with one month to go 1297. The big drop in 2008 was because we lost
electricity for 11 days because of Hurricane Ike.
I replaced my electric water heater early in 2004. Looking at the
efficiency label on the old water heater and comparing to the new $300 water
heater installed by me, I determined that it would pay for itself in less
than 2 years. I have saved about 1300 Kwh per year since. Electricity has
cost me approximately 13 cents per Kwh on average. I have been saving about
$169 per year since 2003 after replacing the water heater. Including the
cost of the new water heater I have saved $700 in electricity over the last
6 years.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Yeah, blame everybody but the bureaucrats who keep piling more and more
> and
> more crap on the schools.
Who do you think the bureaucrats are trying to please????
You seem to have the unique ability to throw gasoline on the blaze and yet
show no hint of any rational ability to understand the problem.
Tony Hwang wrote:
> You can't fuck China, she is too big/powerful now.
When "she" starts making quality, innovative, well engineered tools like
Festool does I'll start buying Chinese. Until then, in a tool buying
sense, fuck China, and the US also ... just in case you think there is
discrimination involved.
People who work with their hands know the difference ... keep that in mind.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 2009-12-17, J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
> THE Volkswagen, the Type I, aka the Beetle, aka the Porsche Type 60, was in
> continuous production for over 60 years with more than 20 million built,
> both the longest and largest production runs in automotive history.
They hadda keep replacing them.
nb
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> Try volunteering in a school for awhile and you will have your eyes
>> opened.
>>
>> The problem starts at home.
>>
>> And the parents are Ground Zero for that problem.
>
> So your solution to the problem is what, shoot all the parents?
Oh good Lord how can any one take you seriousely?
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Your reefer may be in the same mode.
Reefer? ;~)
notbob wrote:
> On 2009-12-17, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Give up, nutbob ... you're in over your head.
>
> Hardly.
>
> There's a very simple reason why experienced folks could repair a VW
> in just minutes: practice!
Yep, with 20 million produced the increased opportunity for "practice"
would be logical, eh?
Apparently over your head also ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> RE: Subject
>
> Having owned two (2) Beetles and a diesel Rabbit, POS comes to mind as
> an apt description of VW product.
Once again ... yours was engineered for the American market, so you are
likely missing the point about my first post on the subject, which was
_clearly_ about the original, European version, which started production
over 60 years ago.
Some of you guys need to learn to pay more attention to what's actually
written.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon wrote:
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers
>>>> that don't give a shit and that finally led to teachers that could
>>>> not find a job any where else. Long ago when teachers could step
>>>> in as a parent and administer discipline he or she could actually
>>>> teach. We have lost teachers that actually taught for baby sitters.
>>>
>>> Uh, you might want to actually get drunk with a few teachers sometime
>>> before
>>> you blame them. They have to do what they can with what they've got
>>> and what they've got these days isn't much (and I'm not talking
>>> about the kids,
>>> I'm talking about the rules they are required to work under). Wanna
>>> fix education, first shoot all the professors of education and all
>>> the school boards.
>>>
>>
>> It may differ with location but for the most part the teachers you are
>> describing are what we had 20 years ago, but not in Houston today.
>> Today they are asking "how to do" from the kids.
>
> Not sure what you mean by "asking how to do", however in some districts
> teachers are forbidden to actually teach subject matter--they are
> constrained when a kid asks a question to "facilitate" the kid looking it
> up
> for himself and disciplinary action will be taken against them if they
> actually get caught answering the question.
My son's calculus teacher asked the students , how to do, a problem, she
could not figure it out.
>> I know it is not their fault, the teachers, for the most part the
>> good ones are long since gone.
>> And they are gone because they no longer want to be baby sitters
>> instead of maintaining discipline and actually teaching. Teaching
>> should also be considered a part of how a child is taught to act and
>> to respect others. That does not happen any more.
>> While I agree the restrictions/cigarettes was the root of the
>> problem.
>
> I don't understand what you think cigarettes have to do with anything. As
> for restrictions, it's not just "restrictions", its a whole mass of
> bureaucrat-mandated bullshit.
I was making a compairison, cigaretts/cancer, It started with restrictions,
then came the bureaucrat crap and eventually the cancer spread to the
teachers.
>
> However the teachers are not the cause. They don't make the decisions.
> They don't make the policies.
Don't recall saying the teachers were the cause but they have been sucked in
and have become part of the problem. The kids are more intelligent than
most of the teachers these days in the HISD.
>
> You could staff the schools with a who's who of American leadership and
> they
> wouldn't be any better than they are now because they'd be operating under
> the same rules.
That is right and the good ones eventually leave. Those that can't do
anything else or are in it for the benefits remain.
>
> When there's something wrong with a huge organization, it's not the peons
> at
> the bottom who are causing it.
Correct, not the cause but do become part of the problem.
>
>> The HS my son went to was an exception to the norm, that school had
>> "good" teachers and there was not a discipline problem.
>
> And this is symptomatic of the problem. Every parent knows that the
> schools
> are broken, but the one that their little darling went to was an
> exception.
The only decent ones my son went to was the private school K-2 and the HS
9-12, the other 3 sucked.
>
>> That public
>> HS was by invitation only. The only requirement to be invited to
>> attend that school was that you needed to have a "Satisfactory"
>> average, for conduct, that's it. If a student became a discipline
>> problem they were warned once and the second time transferred to one
>> of the other HS's in the district.
>
> So the teachers at that school weren't any better than the ones in the
> other
> schools, they just made the problem kids somebody else's problem. So do
> you
> think that those same teachers would have done nearly as well at one of
> the
> other schools?
Yeah they were better teachers. There was a waiting list for them to get
into the school. Problem kids were few and very far in between. My son
knew of "1" in the school, a frined of his, and he tas transferred out.
>
>> When my son began at that HS the school had grades 9-12. In all four
>> grade levels there were only 650 students. I would estimate that in
>> the other 3 HS's that there were in excess of 10K and that is a very
>> conservative estimate. Out of all of those students approximately
>> 150 were invited each year to attend Kerr HS.
>
> And from that you conclude that the _teachers_ at those other schools are
> the problem?
"Part" of the problem and the ones we delt with, 3-8 grades seem
comfortable with that. They did not care for 3 way meetings with the
principal however.
>
>> Kerr HS taught the kids how to prepare for college every day. There
>> was no week off to study for the TAAS test, which is a Texas thing to
>> judge how the students are coming along for their grade level. His
>> middle school took a week every year to review for that test. IIRC
>> the year my son graduated 95% of the students had been accepted to a
>> college. IIRC 87% of those students had been awarded scholarships of
>> $15K or more.
And this is because the teachers were so brilliant you think.
I would not say brillinat so much as above average and the teachers had
nothing to do with obtaining the scolarships. That was all on the kids to
do the leg work.
The system was totally different in that school all the way up to the
principal. Teachers were allowed to teach and they did teach. And yes most
all of the teachers in that school were impressive, even to the kids.
Remember, the good teachers were lined up to get into Kerr. They wanted to
teach there, that came out at every PTA meeting.
In the other schools the teachers reminded me of typical "government
workers", there for the benefits.
I know that their attitudes were not all their fault, the system is to blame
but many of those teachers were like many of the kids, lost. You know when
the system sucks badly enough and you cannot attract good help because of
that fact you settle for less than desirable to fill the classrooms. That
is what I saw.
>> I'm certain that the education that my son received at Kerr HS played
>> a very major roll in him transitioning so smoothly into college. I
>> recall the 10th graders mentoring the incoming 9th graders and most
>> of them were high achievers. Life transitioning into Kerr HS was a
>> bigger challenge for my son than going from that HS into college. I
>> am also certain that Kerr HS played a major part in my son getting
>> into the Honors College his first year at the university and
>> graduating with a 4 year average GPA of 3.87.
>
> And all of this you attribute to the excellence of the teachers and not to
> the district policies that allowed the school to cherry-pick students?
Do you call only accepting students with at least "Satisfactory" conduct
grade cherry picking? Let me mention also that younger borthers and
sisters were also accepted regardless of the conduct grade.
Many of thse kids were not brilliant but they certainly shined when they
graduated.
A person I know very well and whose comments I value, is a
materials buyer for one of the largest, global, manufacturing
companies in the world. He deals with many vendors in many
nations to get the materials to build large computer-type devices
sold globally. He deals with Pacific Rim vendors and
manufacturers daily, including mainland China.
He explained his belief of why dealing with the Pacific
Rim/Chinese vendors is so different than dealing with European
vendors. In summary, it's the Judeo/Christian teachings vs. the
Buddhist/Confucian/Hindu etc. teachings about lying. He told me
that we're all taught that we should always tell the truth and
trade honestly, where the Chinese-type vendors don't believe it's
bad to lie or cheat on a transaction. To them, the shame (loss of
face) comes from getting caught- not if they get away with it.
His personal technique is to order from a vendor and stage serious
inspections both at the production site and upon receipt of the
items. If there is even the slightest discrepancy, he has his
people throw a fit. The product is returned, screaming phone
calls are made, threats to never deal with them again are made,
upstream and downstream vendors are notified and even government
officials are brought into the fray. The goal is to send the
message to the manufacturer or vendor that cheating will be caught
and the maximum amount of embarrassment (loss of face) will be
extracted. Once the fray has died down, the new vendor will
usually supply what is negotiated and ordered for a while. Then,
the cycle starts all over again.
BTW, the Japanese have a similar technique that seldom fails. For
instance, let's use lumber as an example. When a US/Canadian
vendor decides to sell hardwood in Japan, the buyer will ask the
vendor for a graded sample of the materials. It's not at all
uncommon in our own culture to select samples that showcase our
product in its best light. This doesn't work with the Japanese,
however. When the shipment reaches Japan, the hardwood is judged
against the sample, the matching or better material is kept and
anything substandard is returned. There is no compromise for a
bell-shaped grading curve: it's the sample-or-better side of the
curve, only. Many a new vendor has learned a hard lesson about
that little cultural difference.
The last example is about a US built product that is sold by one
company in the US and another in Japan. Both come off the same
assembly line, but with different tags on them: USA or Japan
names. The item shipped to Japan is literally invaded by
inspectors for the buyer, and even things like fingerprints on the
inside of the cabinet rate down marks. . . enough of which and the
product is returned. There are different standards, beyond
performance, that affect Japanese-bound items.
--
Nonny
ELOQUIDIOT (n) A highly educated, sophisticated,
and articulate person who has absolutely no clue
concerning what they are talking about.
The person is typically a media commentator or politician.
On 2009-12-18, Jules <[email protected]> wrote:
> Question: did they ever sell the truck version in the US? (think bus
> but with most of the roof chopped off and a load bed in the back).
Definitely. Very popular in CA.
> offering rear-engined pickups. Not seen one on the road for years, though.
I've seen one, recently, in a Euro repair garage parking lot. I don't
know if it runs or is jes fer show, as it's eternally in the same spot.
nb