Client has new exterior Mahogany door installed. Typical 3-footer with
1ft. sidelights.
Guy who put it in said he doesn't like finishing, but has another guy
who does it, and estimated he would charge $6-800.
Other guy shows up and tells them it'll be more like $1200.
Inside, I'm thinking, "Heck, *I'll* do it for $6-800!" but try to play
it cool.
So, I'm looking into it.
What am I missing, here? Is this really a thousand dollar job!?
What's the best finish to use? Spar Varnish?
I'm guessing you're talking about several coats to do it right, so is
that the reason for the high bid?
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 2:44:21 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/29/18 1:11 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> > This question is a bit like one of my previous clients I ran into
> > over the weekend. "Hey Robert... I have an office in my wife's
> > dental practice and I want the ceilings torn off, I *think* they are
> > acoustic tile over sheetrock, but it could be tile over plywood.
> > Also, I need the walls stripped off and the cabinets removed so I
> > can upgrade the walls to new hold new free hanging cabinets. Oh
> > yeah, and a couple three new plugs. How much will that cost?"
> >
> > Let your mind wonder.
> >
> > So, since finishing/refinishing is certainly part of what I do, I
> > would ask this: Clear coat or paint? (Why hasn't that been asked?)
> > What shape is the door in? Need a lot of prep? Need to be puttied,
> > have surface work done? Does it have panels? How many? Does it
> > have glass in it? Can the glass come out easily or will it have to
> > be taped off?
> >
>
> Clear coat. If it was paint, I wouldn't be here, asking. :-)
>
> Brand new door- perfect condition. Some holes need puttied-- not sure
> why installer didn't do that. Lots of glass panels, including glass
> sidelights. Probably taped off.
>
>
> > What kind of finish will the door owner tolerate? The smell of oil
> > based products will linger in the house for days. Some people have
> > now decided that even latex paint fumes can bring on delirium. With
> > that in mind, the $1200 guy may have decided to take the door off
> > and take it to his shop for finishing to get that "factory" finish.
> > If so, like me he probably puts a plywood barrier across the door
> > hole while the actual door is off site. Some of my clients have
> > loved the convenience of having me pick up the door, block the entry
> > and be gone in 30 minutes, then return in a week with a finished door
> > that I put back up and install the hardware and it's finished.
> >
> > So, what kind of finish, how much prep, what style door, and on or
> > off site finish, and how will it be applied?
> >
> > Robert
> >
>
> I suppose I could take the door with me, but I'd still have the frame
> and sidelights/trim to finish. The whole thing is newly installed and
> raw mahogany.
>
Is installing a raw wooden door a standard practice?
On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 2:02:26 PM UTC-6, DerbyDad03 wrote:
=20
> Is installing a raw wooden door a standard practice?
Yes, depending on what is being done. When I retrofit a door it is always =
unfinished. That allows for the door to be trimmed, fitted, bored, mortise=
d etc., to get a good fit. It isn't necessarily the cutting, chiseling, etc=
., that is done to fit the door to the opening but to allow for all the han=
ding needed to do so.
OTOH, if I am putting in a new door, jamb, trims, etc., with a door prehung=
in a jamb, I finish the door off site and put it in the frame and take it =
to the job to hang. All it needs is just one coat of paint on the trim/jam=
b after hanging and caulking.
Most of my retrofits of "door only" are almost always wood since you can't =
trim (of course you can a bit) a metal or fiberglass door to fit an existin=
g jamb. We have a lot of soil movement here, so by the time the folks need=
a new door, the jamb can be all kinds of out of square and plumb requiring=
a lot of fitting.=20
Robert
On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 5:11:41 PM UTC-5, Jay Pique wrote:
> On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> > Client has new exterior Mahogany door installed. Typical 3-footer with
> > 1ft. sidelights.
> > Guy who put it in said he doesn't like finishing, but has another guy
> > who does it, and estimated he would charge $6-800.
> > Other guy shows up and tells them it'll be more like $1200.
> >
> > Inside, I'm thinking, "Heck, *I'll* do it for $6-800!" but try to play
> > it cool.
> > So, I'm looking into it.
> >
> > What am I missing, here? Is this really a thousand dollar job!?
> > What's the best finish to use? Spar Varnish?
>
> Penetrating epoxy sealer underneath Epifanes marine varnish performed very well according to a FWW article from several years ago. Issue #205
>
> > I'm guessing you're talking about several coats to do it right, so is
> > that the reason for the high bid?
>
> Probably 3 or 4 coats of varnish I'd guess. If you have a sprayer it doesn't take much actual time - but it's like a full day in between coats.
Ooops - I overlooked that it's already installed. That's not ideal....
Back on the subject of price. I guess it depends on how you charge and wha=
t you charge for your time.
If you are finishing in place there will be a lot of travel time and unless=
you are up to speed on taping off each lite separately, the all the time t=
hat it takes to cut around said lites, I would be careful on my estimates. =
I would want to have my finish in mind, too. I have put on too much "fast=
dry" clear coating that didn't. You will be able to go around the jamb/tr=
im pretty quick, and build multiple coats.
DEPENDING ON THE FINISH CHOSEN, I could see somewhere around $1200. Dust c=
ontrol? Multiple coats? Floor/wall protection? Removing hardware (dead bol=
t, lockset, peep hole, interior chain/lever, etc.) and reinstalling it late=
r each time? How many coats, how many trips?
For poly/varnish/and the other similar finishes, 8 hours is dry to the touc=
h but will often stay sticky. Closing the door on a jamb coated at the sam=
e time will cause fouling of the finish sometimes after 10 hours.
I like to use the polyurethane conversion lacquers, but those are all spray=
ed. I don't like to hand cut in around door lites, I don't like to screw w=
ith hardware coming off and reinstalling, and I hate multiple trips for the=
same task. If you can block off enough to spray, you could get three coat=
s of one of the poly convertibles on in a day. I have done as many as five=
.
I would be more involved in trying to figure out my time based on the finis=
h used and job site conditions than I would the actual finishing. You got =
the finishing. IF the door had a lot of lites, and IF they wanted the insi=
de finished to match, and IF I had to fill nail holes and sand out scuffs, =
I could see $1200 for a PREMIUM finish. I would probably have trips to th=
e site to do all the prep, remove the hardware, cover the floors/concrete/p=
orch mateiral and apply the finish, and return later to reinstall the hardw=
are and pick up my drop cloths, etc. as long after product application as p=
ossible. Three coats? Six trips.
That being said, I spray new metal/fiberglass doors with another specialty =
product (commercial use fast dry) enamel on occasion with two coats of pain=
t and I only charge $500 and try to sell the client new hardware to bump th=
e price a bit. The enamel I use gets so hard (if properly applied) that yo=
u can't scratch it with your fingernail and it holds up great. I wish I co=
uld stock up on it; my Sherwin Williams rep told me they are going to quit =
selling the product to the public, if they haven't already. Too many VOCs.
So just as a talking point, what is your "per pass" side charge on a brushe=
d door with 6 - 8 panels, no windows or lites, pre-primed or already painte=
d? Talking minor prep, painted in place or int the client garage.
Robert
This question is a bit like one of my previous clients I ran into over the =
weekend. "Hey Robert... I have an office in my wife's dental practice and =
I want the ceilings torn off, I *think* they are acoustic tile over sheetro=
ck, but it could be tile over plywood. Also, I need the walls stripped off =
and the cabinets removed so I can upgrade the walls to new hold new free ha=
nging cabinets. Oh yeah, and a couple three new plugs. How much will that=
cost?"
Let your mind wonder.
So, since finishing/refinishing is certainly part of what I do, I would ask=
this: Clear coat or paint? (Why hasn't that been asked?) What shape is th=
e door in? Need a lot of prep? Need to be puttied, have surface work done=
? Does it have panels? How many? Does it have glass in it? Can the glas=
s come out easily or will it have to be taped off?=20
What kind of finish will the door owner tolerate? The smell of oil based pr=
oducts will linger in the house for days. Some people have now decided tha=
t even latex paint fumes can bring on delirium. With that in mind, the $12=
00 guy may have decided to take the door off and take it to his shop for fi=
nishing to get that "factory" finish. If so, like me he probably puts a pl=
ywood barrier across the door hole while the actual door is off site. Some=
of my clients have loved the convenience of having me pick up the door, bl=
ock the entry and be gone in 30 minutes, then return in a week with a finis=
hed door that I put back up and install the hardware and it's finished.
So, what kind of finish, how much prep, what style door, and on or off site=
finish, and how will it be applied?
Robert
On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> Client has new exterior Mahogany door installed. Typical 3-footer with
> 1ft. sidelights.
> Guy who put it in said he doesn't like finishing, but has another guy
> who does it, and estimated he would charge $6-800.
> Other guy shows up and tells them it'll be more like $1200.
>
> Inside, I'm thinking, "Heck, *I'll* do it for $6-800!" but try to play
> it cool.
> So, I'm looking into it.
>
> What am I missing, here? Is this really a thousand dollar job!?
> What's the best finish to use? Spar Varnish?
Penetrating epoxy sealer underneath Epifanes marine varnish performed very well according to a FWW article from several years ago. Issue #205
> I'm guessing you're talking about several coats to do it right, so is
> that the reason for the high bid?
Probably 3 or 4 coats of varnish I'd guess. If you have a sprayer it doesn't take much actual time - but it's like a full day in between coats.
On 1/29/2018 3:35 PM, Jay Pique wrote:
> On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 3:30:46 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/29/18 2:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 2:44:21 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>> On 1/29/18 1:11 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> This question is a bit like one of my previous clients I ran
>>>>> into over the weekend. "Hey Robert... I have an office in my
>>>>> wife's dental practice and I want the ceilings torn off, I
>>>>> *think* they are acoustic tile over sheetrock, but it could be
>>>>> tile over plywood. Also, I need the walls stripped off and the
>>>>> cabinets removed so I can upgrade the walls to new hold new free
>>>>> hanging cabinets. Oh yeah, and a couple three new plugs. How
>>>>> much will that cost?"
>>>>>
>>>>> Let your mind wonder.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, since finishing/refinishing is certainly part of what I do,
>>>>> I would ask this: Clear coat or paint? (Why hasn't that been
>>>>> asked?) What shape is the door in? Need a lot of prep? Need to
>>>>> be puttied, have surface work done? Does it have panels? How
>>>>> many? Does it have glass in it? Can the glass come out easily
>>>>> or will it have to be taped off?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Clear coat. If it was paint, I wouldn't be here, asking. :-)
>>>>
>>>> Brand new door- perfect condition. Some holes need puttied-- not
>>>> sure why installer didn't do that. Lots of glass panels, including
>>>> glass sidelights. Probably taped off.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> What kind of finish will the door owner tolerate? The smell of
>>>>> oil based products will linger in the house for days. Some
>>>>> people have now decided that even latex paint fumes can bring on
>>>>> delirium. With that in mind, the $1200 guy may have decided to
>>>>> take the door off and take it to his shop for finishing to get
>>>>> that "factory" finish. If so, like me he probably puts a plywood
>>>>> barrier across the door hole while the actual door is off site.
>>>>> Some of my clients have loved the convenience of having me pick
>>>>> up the door, block the entry and be gone in 30 minutes, then
>>>>> return in a week with a finished door that I put back up and
>>>>> install the hardware and it's finished.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, what kind of finish, how much prep, what style door, and on
>>>>> or off site finish, and how will it be applied?
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I suppose I could take the door with me, but I'd still have the
>>>> frame and sidelights/trim to finish. The whole thing is newly
>>>> installed and raw mahogany.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Is installing a raw wooden door a standard practice?
>>>
>>
>> I don't know. There has to be some logical reason. All I can think of
>> is so all the trim-out can be finished at the same time.
>> However, I also think it's better to put a finish on all the surfaces,
>> including bottom. That way when it shrinks, there's still protection.
>> I think it would be optimal to do all finishing in shop on all wood
>> surfaces, up until last coat. Then do last coat after installation.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> -MIKE-
>>
>> "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
>> --Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
>> --
>> www.mikedrums.com
>
> I'm trying to think of a "logical" reason why they would install an entirely new wood door system without finishing first. Having trouble...
>
> JP
>
Some people wait way too long to refinish and the door begins to fall
apart. Or they want a different style.
On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 3:30:46 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 1/29/18 2:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 2:44:21 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
> >> On 1/29/18 1:11 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> >>> This question is a bit like one of my previous clients I ran
> >>> into over the weekend. "Hey Robert... I have an office in my
> >>> wife's dental practice and I want the ceilings torn off, I
> >>> *think* they are acoustic tile over sheetrock, but it could be
> >>> tile over plywood. Also, I need the walls stripped off and the
> >>> cabinets removed so I can upgrade the walls to new hold new free
> >>> hanging cabinets. Oh yeah, and a couple three new plugs. How
> >>> much will that cost?"
> >>>
> >>> Let your mind wonder.
> >>>
> >>> So, since finishing/refinishing is certainly part of what I do,
> >>> I would ask this: Clear coat or paint? (Why hasn't that been
> >>> asked?) What shape is the door in? Need a lot of prep? Need to
> >>> be puttied, have surface work done? Does it have panels? How
> >>> many? Does it have glass in it? Can the glass come out easily
> >>> or will it have to be taped off?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Clear coat. If it was paint, I wouldn't be here, asking. :-)
> >>
> >> Brand new door- perfect condition. Some holes need puttied-- not
> >> sure why installer didn't do that. Lots of glass panels, including
> >> glass sidelights. Probably taped off.
> >>
> >>
> >>> What kind of finish will the door owner tolerate? The smell of
> >>> oil based products will linger in the house for days. Some
> >>> people have now decided that even latex paint fumes can bring on
> >>> delirium. With that in mind, the $1200 guy may have decided to
> >>> take the door off and take it to his shop for finishing to get
> >>> that "factory" finish. If so, like me he probably puts a plywood
> >>> barrier across the door hole while the actual door is off site.
> >>> Some of my clients have loved the convenience of having me pick
> >>> up the door, block the entry and be gone in 30 minutes, then
> >>> return in a week with a finished door that I put back up and
> >>> install the hardware and it's finished.
> >>>
> >>> So, what kind of finish, how much prep, what style door, and on
> >>> or off site finish, and how will it be applied?
> >>>
> >>> Robert
> >>>
> >>
> >> I suppose I could take the door with me, but I'd still have the
> >> frame and sidelights/trim to finish. The whole thing is newly
> >> installed and raw mahogany.
> >>
> >
> > Is installing a raw wooden door a standard practice?
> >
>
> I don't know. There has to be some logical reason. All I can think of
> is so all the trim-out can be finished at the same time.
> However, I also think it's better to put a finish on all the surfaces,
> including bottom. That way when it shrinks, there's still protection.
> I think it would be optimal to do all finishing in shop on all wood
> surfaces, up until last coat. Then do last coat after installation.
>
>
> --
>
> -MIKE-
>
> "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> --Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
> --
> www.mikedrums.com
I'm trying to think of a "logical" reason why they would install an entirely new wood door system without finishing first. Having trouble...
JP
On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 6:31:02 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
> Two things I hate doing.
> 1. Being tempted to take shortcuts and rush because I'm not making
> enough on a job.
> 2. Not making enough on a job.
I couldn't agree more. Sometimes I labor over the details of a job so much=
that I drive myself nuts. I want a very good job from myself, and serious=
ly, my standards are a light higher than my client's are sometimes. I have =
pride in my work, but also don't need anyone telling someone I do substanda=
rd work. ALL of my work right now is word of mouth and has been for some ti=
me.=20
At this point, I don't need the practice. I kick myself in the ass if I do=
n't make enough, and try to figure out at the end one of two things: 1) did=
I just miss the labor, materials and processes and bid to cheap? and 2) d=
id I not understand the job well enough to bid it properly?
I know I will NEVER get rich doing what I do, but I don't have to starve, e=
ither.
> Sounds like, if I use the proper material, that I might be able to bang
> this out in a couple days, having a third, short visit for the final coat=
.
>=20
> They only aspect of this job that still makes me tempted to do it is
> that the client is right down the street from me.
That might be the key. You could get there early put a coat on and come by=
late. To put on the hardware for the night. Still... 3-4 hours to prep th=
e door (sand, tape off the lites)and fill the holes. Wait until the putty =
dries so you don't dissolve it, and since a coat won't dry in 4-5 hours, yo=
u come back the next day. Take off the hardware, put up your dust barrier,=
and coat the door and trims. 3 hours by the time you clean up your brushes=
. Come back later that evening and put the hardware back on.
Repeat the next day. Now you are at two coats. Since the wood was naked, =
should do one more, realizing that the coating is drying slower and slower =
as the green coats are off gassing.
Until I went with a non-negotialble solvent based finish unless we are in t=
he middle of summer, I was always nervous about the finishes being dry enou=
gh to not stick. Yes I took off the weatherstripping, etc., but still, one=
point of contact and it will leave a hickey. If the weather screws you an=
d you miss a day of coating, 48 hours may be too late for another coat on t=
op of your door and you will get witness lines.
Solvent based products are pretty predictable so I try to stick with them. =
But there is one winner you might try that is water borne but it acts and =
hardens like solvent. Find an ML Campbell dealer around you and they can f=
ix you up with some of their outstanding water based products. I am pretty=
sure they have a brushable/foam pad product. I think that all SW has to of=
fer is a catalyzed product and for something that small it is too much hass=
le.
> I will probably tell them that after further research that the $1200
> they were quoted is not unreasonable *if* the guy does excellent work.
If it is a really good job, I agree.
Robert
On 1/28/2018 4:25 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> Client has new exterior Mahogany door installed. Typical 3-footer with
> 1ft. sidelights.
> Guy who put it in said he doesn't like finishing, but has another guy
> who does it, and estimated he would charge $6-800.
> Other guy shows up and tells them it'll be more like $1200.
>
> Inside, I'm thinking, "Heck, *I'll* do it for $6-800!" but try to play
> it cool.
> So, I'm looking into it.
>
> What am I missing, here? Is this really a thousand dollar job!?
> What's the best finish to use? Spar Varnish?
>
> I'm guessing you're talking about several coats to do it right, so is
> that the reason for the high bid?
>
>
My guess is the guy sized up the customer. I've know tradesmen that
doubled their price if the customer was a doctor or lawyer, added 50%
for anyone driving a fancy car.
I can see $600+ though. Couple of hours for each of three trips. 2
hours on site, travel, only a half day for other work.
On 1/28/18 4:11 PM, Jay Pique wrote:
> On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> Client has new exterior Mahogany door installed. Typical 3-footer with
>> 1ft. sidelights.
>> Guy who put it in said he doesn't like finishing, but has another guy
>> who does it, and estimated he would charge $6-800.
>> Other guy shows up and tells them it'll be more like $1200.
>>
>> Inside, I'm thinking, "Heck, *I'll* do it for $6-800!" but try to play
>> it cool.
>> So, I'm looking into it.
>>
>> What am I missing, here? Is this really a thousand dollar job!?
>> What's the best finish to use? Spar Varnish?
>
> Penetrating epoxy sealer underneath Epifanes marine varnish performed very well according to a FWW article from several years ago. Issue #205
>
I just read that article. :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 1/29/18 1:11 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> This question is a bit like one of my previous clients I ran into
> over the weekend. "Hey Robert... I have an office in my wife's
> dental practice and I want the ceilings torn off, I *think* they are
> acoustic tile over sheetrock, but it could be tile over plywood.
> Also, I need the walls stripped off and the cabinets removed so I
> can upgrade the walls to new hold new free hanging cabinets. Oh
> yeah, and a couple three new plugs. How much will that cost?"
>
> Let your mind wonder.
>
> So, since finishing/refinishing is certainly part of what I do, I
> would ask this: Clear coat or paint? (Why hasn't that been asked?)
> What shape is the door in? Need a lot of prep? Need to be puttied,
> have surface work done? Does it have panels? How many? Does it
> have glass in it? Can the glass come out easily or will it have to
> be taped off?
>
Clear coat. If it was paint, I wouldn't be here, asking. :-)
Brand new door- perfect condition. Some holes need puttied-- not sure
why installer didn't do that. Lots of glass panels, including glass
sidelights. Probably taped off.
> What kind of finish will the door owner tolerate? The smell of oil
> based products will linger in the house for days. Some people have
> now decided that even latex paint fumes can bring on delirium. With
> that in mind, the $1200 guy may have decided to take the door off
> and take it to his shop for finishing to get that "factory" finish.
> If so, like me he probably puts a plywood barrier across the door
> hole while the actual door is off site. Some of my clients have
> loved the convenience of having me pick up the door, block the entry
> and be gone in 30 minutes, then return in a week with a finished door
> that I put back up and install the hardware and it's finished.
>
> So, what kind of finish, how much prep, what style door, and on or
> off site finish, and how will it be applied?
>
> Robert
>
I suppose I could take the door with me, but I'd still have the frame
and sidelights/trim to finish. The whole thing is newly installed and
raw mahogany.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 1/29/18 2:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 2:44:21 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/29/18 1:11 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> This question is a bit like one of my previous clients I ran
>>> into over the weekend. "Hey Robert... I have an office in my
>>> wife's dental practice and I want the ceilings torn off, I
>>> *think* they are acoustic tile over sheetrock, but it could be
>>> tile over plywood. Also, I need the walls stripped off and the
>>> cabinets removed so I can upgrade the walls to new hold new free
>>> hanging cabinets. Oh yeah, and a couple three new plugs. How
>>> much will that cost?"
>>>
>>> Let your mind wonder.
>>>
>>> So, since finishing/refinishing is certainly part of what I do,
>>> I would ask this: Clear coat or paint? (Why hasn't that been
>>> asked?) What shape is the door in? Need a lot of prep? Need to
>>> be puttied, have surface work done? Does it have panels? How
>>> many? Does it have glass in it? Can the glass come out easily
>>> or will it have to be taped off?
>>>
>>
>> Clear coat. If it was paint, I wouldn't be here, asking. :-)
>>
>> Brand new door- perfect condition. Some holes need puttied-- not
>> sure why installer didn't do that. Lots of glass panels, including
>> glass sidelights. Probably taped off.
>>
>>
>>> What kind of finish will the door owner tolerate? The smell of
>>> oil based products will linger in the house for days. Some
>>> people have now decided that even latex paint fumes can bring on
>>> delirium. With that in mind, the $1200 guy may have decided to
>>> take the door off and take it to his shop for finishing to get
>>> that "factory" finish. If so, like me he probably puts a plywood
>>> barrier across the door hole while the actual door is off site.
>>> Some of my clients have loved the convenience of having me pick
>>> up the door, block the entry and be gone in 30 minutes, then
>>> return in a week with a finished door that I put back up and
>>> install the hardware and it's finished.
>>>
>>> So, what kind of finish, how much prep, what style door, and on
>>> or off site finish, and how will it be applied?
>>>
>>> Robert
>>>
>>
>> I suppose I could take the door with me, but I'd still have the
>> frame and sidelights/trim to finish. The whole thing is newly
>> installed and raw mahogany.
>>
>
> Is installing a raw wooden door a standard practice?
>
I don't know. There has to be some logical reason. All I can think of
is so all the trim-out can be finished at the same time.
However, I also think it's better to put a finish on all the surfaces,
including bottom. That way when it shrinks, there's still protection.
I think it would be optimal to do all finishing in shop on all wood
surfaces, up until last coat. Then do last coat after installation.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 1/29/18 3:34 PM, Markem wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 14:30:40 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> I don't know. There has to be some logical reason. All I can think of
>> is so all the trim-out can be finished at the same time.
>> However, I also think it's better to put a finish on all the surfaces,
>> including bottom. That way when it shrinks, there's still protection.
>> I think it would be optimal to do all finishing in shop on all wood
>> surfaces, up until last coat. Then do last coat after installation.
>>
>
> So it is installed and you would be weather dependent to finish it, or
> you could build a plastic tent and that entails cost. If you have
> scaffolding then it can makes a great tent, heating it though????
>
Exactly. It's actually under an overhang which would make tarping it
off pretty easy.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 1/29/18 3:40 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Jay Pique <[email protected]> writes:
>> On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 3:30:46 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>> On 1/29/18 2:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>> On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 2:44:21 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>>>> On 1/29/18 1:11 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> This question is a bit like one of my previous clients I ran
>>>>>> into over the weekend. "Hey Robert... I have an office in my
>>>>>> wife's dental practice and I want the ceilings torn off, I
>>>>>> *think* they are acoustic tile over sheetrock, but it could be
>>>>>> tile over plywood. Also, I need the walls stripped off and the
>>>>>> cabinets removed so I can upgrade the walls to new hold new free
>>>>>> hanging cabinets. Oh yeah, and a couple three new plugs. How
>>>>>> much will that cost?"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let your mind wonder.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, since finishing/refinishing is certainly part of what I do,
>>>>>> I would ask this: Clear coat or paint? (Why hasn't that been
>>>>>> asked?) What shape is the door in? Need a lot of prep? Need to
>>>>>> be puttied, have surface work done? Does it have panels? How
>>>>>> many? Does it have glass in it? Can the glass come out easily
>>>>>> or will it have to be taped off?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Clear coat. If it was paint, I wouldn't be here, asking. :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Brand new door- perfect condition. Some holes need puttied-- not
>>>>> sure why installer didn't do that. Lots of glass panels, including
>>>>> glass sidelights. Probably taped off.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> What kind of finish will the door owner tolerate? The smell of
>>>>>> oil based products will linger in the house for days. Some
>>>>>> people have now decided that even latex paint fumes can bring on
>>>>>> delirium. With that in mind, the $1200 guy may have decided to
>>>>>> take the door off and take it to his shop for finishing to get
>>>>>> that "factory" finish. If so, like me he probably puts a plywood
>>>>>> barrier across the door hole while the actual door is off site.
>>>>>> Some of my clients have loved the convenience of having me pick
>>>>>> up the door, block the entry and be gone in 30 minutes, then
>>>>>> return in a week with a finished door that I put back up and
>>>>>> install the hardware and it's finished.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, what kind of finish, how much prep, what style door, and on
>>>>>> or off site finish, and how will it be applied?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose I could take the door with me, but I'd still have the
>>>>> frame and sidelights/trim to finish. The whole thing is newly
>>>>> installed and raw mahogany.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is installing a raw wooden door a standard practice?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know. There has to be some logical reason. All I can think of
>>> is so all the trim-out can be finished at the same time.
>>> However, I also think it's better to put a finish on all the surfaces,
>>> including bottom. That way when it shrinks, there's still protection.
>>> I think it would be optimal to do all finishing in shop on all wood
>>> surfaces, up until last coat. Then do last coat after installation.
>>>
>>
>> I'm trying to think of a "logical" reason why they would install an entirely new wood door system without finishing first. Having trouble...
>
> Perhaps because it's not real wood? I've seen expensive "mahogany" entry
> doors made from a molded fibreglass that needs to be finished using
> a special finish from the door manufacturer.
>
It's wood.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 1/29/18 5:28 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> Back on the subject of price. I guess it depends on how you charge
> and what you charge for your time.
>
> If you are finishing in place there will be a lot of travel time and
> unless you are up to speed on taping off each lite separately, the
> all the time that it takes to cut around said lites, I would be
> careful on my estimates. I would want to have my finish in mind,
> too. I have put on too much "fast dry" clear coating that didn't.
> You will be able to go around the jamb/trim pretty quick, and build
> multiple coats.
>
> DEPENDING ON THE FINISH CHOSEN, I could see somewhere around $1200.
> Dust control? Multiple coats? Floor/wall protection? Removing
> hardware (dead bolt, lockset, peep hole, interior chain/lever, etc.)
> and reinstalling it later each time? How many coats, how many
> trips?
>
> For poly/varnish/and the other similar finishes, 8 hours is dry to
> the touch but will often stay sticky. Closing the door on a jamb
> coated at the same time will cause fouling of the finish sometimes
> after 10 hours.
>
> I like to use the polyurethane conversion lacquers, but those are
> all sprayed. I don't like to hand cut in around door lites, I don't
> like to screw with hardware coming off and reinstalling, and I hate
> multiple trips for the same task. If you can block off enough to
> spray, you could get three coats of one of the poly convertibles on
> in a day. I have done as many as five.
>
> I would be more involved in trying to figure out my time based on
> the finish used and job site conditions than I would the actual
> finishing. You got the finishing. IF the door had a lot of lites,
> and IF they wanted the inside finished to match, and IF I had to
> fill nail holes and sand out scuffs, I could see $1200 for a PREMIUM
> finish. I would probably have trips to the site to do all the
> prep, remove the hardware, cover the floors/concrete/porch mateiral
> and apply the finish, and return later to reinstall the hardware and
> pick up my drop cloths, etc. as long after product application as
> possible. Three coats? Six trips.
>
> That being said, I spray new metal/fiberglass doors with another
> specialty product (commercial use fast dry) enamel on occasion with
> two coats of paint and I only charge $500 and try to sell the client
> new hardware to bump the price a bit. The enamel I use gets so hard
> (if properly applied) that you can't scratch it with your fingernail
> and it holds up great. I wish I could stock up on it; my Sherwin
> Williams rep told me they are going to quit selling the product to
> the public, if they haven't already. Too many VOCs.
>
> So just as a talking point, what is your "per pass" side charge on a
> brushed door with 6 - 8 panels, no windows or lites, pre-primed or
> already painted? Talking minor prep, painted in place or int the
> client garage.
>
> Robert
>
Great info!
I guess it's not that unreasonable after all.
Like I tell often my clients, "There's often a lot more to doing
something than most people who are inexperienced at doing it realize."
Two things I hate doing.
1. Being tempted to take shortcuts and rush because I'm not making
enough on a job.
2. Not making enough on a job.
Sounds like, if I use the proper material, that I might be able to bang
this out in a couple days, having a third, short visit for the final coat.
They only aspect of this job that still makes me tempted to do it is
that the client is right down the street from me.
I will probably tell them that after further research that the $1200
they were quoted is not unreasonable *if* the guy does excellent work.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On Sun, 28 Jan 2018 14:11:39 -0800 (PST), Jay Pique
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sunday, January 28, 2018 at 4:25:16 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> Client has new exterior Mahogany door installed. Typical 3-footer with
>> 1ft. sidelights.
>> Guy who put it in said he doesn't like finishing, but has another guy
>> who does it, and estimated he would charge $6-800.
>> Other guy shows up and tells them it'll be more like $1200.
>>
>> Inside, I'm thinking, "Heck, *I'll* do it for $6-800!" but try to play
>> it cool.
>> So, I'm looking into it.
>>
>> What am I missing, here? Is this really a thousand dollar job!?
>> What's the best finish to use? Spar Varnish?
>
>Penetrating epoxy sealer underneath Epifanes marine varnish performed very well according to a FWW article from several years ago. Issue #205
>
>> I'm guessing you're talking about several coats to do it right, so is
>> that the reason for the high bid?
>
>Probably 3 or 4 coats of varnish I'd guess. If you have a sprayer it doesn't take much actual time - but it's like a full day in between coats.
I'd say find out what the other guys are bidding. Might be Awlgrip or
the like, which you do _not_ want to spray if you don't know how to
protect yourself.
On Mon, 29 Jan 2018 14:30:40 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I don't know. There has to be some logical reason. All I can think of
>is so all the trim-out can be finished at the same time.
>However, I also think it's better to put a finish on all the surfaces,
>including bottom. That way when it shrinks, there's still protection.
>I think it would be optimal to do all finishing in shop on all wood
>surfaces, up until last coat. Then do last coat after installation.
>
So it is installed and you would be weather dependent to finish it, or
you could build a plastic tent and that entails cost. If you have
scaffolding then it can makes a great tent, heating it though????
Jay Pique <[email protected]> writes:
>On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 3:30:46 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> On 1/29/18 2:02 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> > On Monday, January 29, 2018 at 2:44:21 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>> >> On 1/29/18 1:11 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> >>> This question is a bit like one of my previous clients I ran
>> >>> into over the weekend. "Hey Robert... I have an office in my
>> >>> wife's dental practice and I want the ceilings torn off, I
>> >>> *think* they are acoustic tile over sheetrock, but it could be
>> >>> tile over plywood. Also, I need the walls stripped off and the
>> >>> cabinets removed so I can upgrade the walls to new hold new free
>> >>> hanging cabinets. Oh yeah, and a couple three new plugs. How
>> >>> much will that cost?"
>> >>>
>> >>> Let your mind wonder.
>> >>>
>> >>> So, since finishing/refinishing is certainly part of what I do,
>> >>> I would ask this: Clear coat or paint? (Why hasn't that been
>> >>> asked?) What shape is the door in? Need a lot of prep? Need to
>> >>> be puttied, have surface work done? Does it have panels? How
>> >>> many? Does it have glass in it? Can the glass come out easily
>> >>> or will it have to be taped off?
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Clear coat. If it was paint, I wouldn't be here, asking. :-)
>> >>
>> >> Brand new door- perfect condition. Some holes need puttied-- not
>> >> sure why installer didn't do that. Lots of glass panels, including
>> >> glass sidelights. Probably taped off.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> What kind of finish will the door owner tolerate? The smell of
>> >>> oil based products will linger in the house for days. Some
>> >>> people have now decided that even latex paint fumes can bring on
>> >>> delirium. With that in mind, the $1200 guy may have decided to
>> >>> take the door off and take it to his shop for finishing to get
>> >>> that "factory" finish. If so, like me he probably puts a plywood
>> >>> barrier across the door hole while the actual door is off site.
>> >>> Some of my clients have loved the convenience of having me pick
>> >>> up the door, block the entry and be gone in 30 minutes, then
>> >>> return in a week with a finished door that I put back up and
>> >>> install the hardware and it's finished.
>> >>>
>> >>> So, what kind of finish, how much prep, what style door, and on
>> >>> or off site finish, and how will it be applied?
>> >>>
>> >>> Robert
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> I suppose I could take the door with me, but I'd still have the
>> >> frame and sidelights/trim to finish. The whole thing is newly
>> >> installed and raw mahogany.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Is installing a raw wooden door a standard practice?
>> >
>>
>> I don't know. There has to be some logical reason. All I can think of
>> is so all the trim-out can be finished at the same time.
>> However, I also think it's better to put a finish on all the surfaces,
>> including bottom. That way when it shrinks, there's still protection.
>> I think it would be optimal to do all finishing in shop on all wood
>> surfaces, up until last coat. Then do last coat after installation.
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> -MIKE-
>>
>> "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
>> --Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
>> --
>> www.mikedrums.com
>
>I'm trying to think of a "logical" reason why they would install an entirely new wood door system without finishing first. Having trouble...
Perhaps because it's not real wood? I've seen expensive "mahogany" entry
doors made from a molded fibreglass that needs to be finished using
a special finish from the door manufacturer.
On 1/28/2018 3:25 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> Client has new exterior Mahogany door installed. Typical 3-footer with
> 1ft. sidelights.
> Guy who put it in said he doesn't like finishing, but has another guy
> who does it, and estimated he would charge $6-800.
> Other guy shows up and tells them it'll be more like $1200.
>
> Inside, I'm thinking, "Heck, *I'll* do it for $6-800!" but try to play
> it cool.
> So, I'm looking into it.
>
> What am I missing, here? Is this really a thousand dollar job!?
> What's the best finish to use? Spar Varnish?
>
> I'm guessing you're talking about several coats to do it right, so is
> that the reason for the high bid?
>
>
In Houston they are charging $4~$600, sand and refinish.